Party-liners wreck the country

@Houston! "And Obama is the democratically elected President of the United States."

False! He was not fairly democratically elected. Once you take out all the votes that were filled out by pets, dead people, threatened people, etc., Obama or any previous president for that manner may or may not have actually won.

And Mitt Romney is a robot that was built in a factory owned by the Koch brothers to obey their every command once he was elected president. There's as much proof of that as you've got of voter fraud. And, as a matter of fact, some of the few incidents of voter fraud that did happen were committed by Republican Party officials, one of whom was arrested for trying to vote twice in order to "test" the voting system.

Obama was re-elected. But I do not remember any gun control agenda in his election speeches. Had there been, I wonder how things would have turned out?

Elise, SF--- nice assumption but not correct check the facts please.

seaskip--- Nice try but you do not care either, or they would not be part of your conversation.

The fascism remarks definitely refer to the party that wants it's members to BE all the same, i.e. homogenous. No hippies, no freaks, no gays, no "people of color", and definitely, absolutely no one that thinks outside the box. That term doesn't describe the Democrats..... Just to make it clear to the folks who do not understand the word fascist or the term fascism and ascribe it to the Demos, seemingly, in self defense. It just makes those who use it in the wrong context look stupid.

Party-liners; if I'm not mistaking it is Republican party doing their best to make it impossible for anything but Republicans vote for Pres., and congress. Now how is that a Dem. cheating?

@Dennis Price

Trolling about what? I don't believe you know what troll means.

Ed Orr

I never said only democrats cheat.

let's not talk about how many times that someone was able to save themselves and/or loved ones BECAUSE they had a gun. let's not talk about how the reason we were able to take this land from the British and create America was BECAUSE the people owned guns. let's not talk about how microscopic of a percentage of guns that exist in this country are used in violent criminal acts. let's not talk about how it is our responsibility to own guns so that if the people that rule over us are no longer serving us (like the British monarchy) then we can TAKE our freedom back ourselves the same way we got our freedom to begin with. governments have always been and will always be corrupt and MUST not be allowed to run rampant on THE PEOPLE. and our founding fathers knew this, that is why we must be allowed to own guns.

Party-liners, we do understand your name and agree. Tea Party-liners and Republican Party-liners are indeed ruining the country. Liberals and Democrats are a fractious lot that almost never toe a line.

"How can most of you not see what Wayne LaPierre was talking about? The only way to protect our children in schools at this time is by putting trained armed guards in every school.

As long as we have people that want to take our stuff or harm others, the only way to protect is with armed guards."

=====================

a police state is not the answer to violence. a standing army is forbidden on this land. children being murdered is tragic, but not as tragic as using that as an excuse to rob all other Americans of their civil liberties. If you are willing to trade freedom for security, you deserve neither.

John954, I totally agree. When what passes for informed dialogue in these posts begins with name calling (on either side) you know the post isn't really worth the pixels it's displayed with. As a student of history I find the use of fascist especially ironic.

Also, to comment on Jeff from Northridges post above, "There are 100 million Legal gun owners with 300 million guns. Per the FBI more people died by homicide using Hands & Feet than with any rifle including the AR-15. More people died by homicide using a knife than homicide with any rifle including the AR-15. More people died by homicide using a blunt object such as a baseball bat than homicide with any rifle including the AR-15. In Australia which forced a buy back of guns violent crime rates especially armed home invasions went up dramatically. Taking guns away from legal citizens will only help criminals and further erode our civil rights." The definitive group tracking causes of death is the CDC. To summarize their stats:

"If you exclude natural causes of death and consider only deaths caused by injury, it is the second-leading cause of death over that time span; only car accidents (417,000) killed more people. (These numbers come from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.)" And, of course, car use and safety standards are regulated...

As for Australia, the official statstics for Ministry of Home Affairs were:

• Firearms used in 13 per cent of all homicides;
• There has been a 27 per cent drop in the number of homicides between 1996 and 2010, with a drop of 11 per cent between 2009 and 2010;
• The homicide rate is 1.2 per 100,000 population;
• The number of victims of robbery in 2010 is the lowest on record since 1996, with 14,582 victims. Robbery victim numbers peaked in 2001 with 26,591 victims;

The U.S. homicide rate (deaths/100,000 people) for 2012 was 4.6% (Canada's was 1.6%). Of this rate 3.2% are gun related. The U.S. has the highest rate of gun related deaths in the developed world. The next highest is Chile, followed by Switzerland. An American has a 20 times higher chance of being killed by a firearm than the average of all other developed countries...

Jon-1321288

Both parties are currently corrupt and not worth being a part of. With this whole gun issue, people need to wake up and realize that they are only hurting themselves in the future if they put restrictions on the 2nd amendment. The government will not stop until they have full control. All people have to do is read some history in order to know.

"Paradoxically enough, the release of initiative and enterprise made possible by popular self-government ultimately generates disintegrating forces from within. Again and again after freedom has brought opportunity and some degree of plenty, the competent become selfish, luxury-loving and complacent, the incompetent and the unfortunate grow envious and covetous, and all three groups turn aside from the hard road of freedom to worship the Golden Calf of economic security."

=================

you can add to that the sweet irony, that the incompetent ones this paragraph speaks of do not even understand what that paragraph said, thanks to our communist education system. the people won't rise up if they are kept uneducated and simple minded enough to not understand when they need to. and those are the ones who don't mind our guns being taken away, because they are ignorant and do not truly understand very many other things either. they understand how to turn on the tv and how to text and how to accumulate frivolous material possessions and that is as far as their intellect can take them

Wow, 66million of 330 million, that is a true majority.

Hard feat to accomplish since we have a population of just over 303 million.

Not to mention, the total eligible number of voters is roughly at 208 million.

Here's a better breakdown for you...

169 million registered - 86 million democrat - 55 million republican - 28 million others registered.

So tell me where you got your 330 million number from.

Party-liners wreck the country

Get over your stupid party crap. We were talking presidents being fairly elected, not about how you hate republicans. You're an idiot to say I have no proof of voter fraud.

Hmm. How does YOUR lack of evidence to back up your stupid claim that Obama won because people's pets voted for him make ME an idiot? It makes YOU a moron.

yes, Wayne is an zealous hyprocrite. He is not a fool. He is mustering the last few good calling cards he has in his wanning years. NRA is about to get its ass kicked, because it is about to go up against an uprescedented 75%+ voters in favor of Universal gun registration. The Democrats will push for a vote before the next election cycle. If the remaining Republicans (or ones in trouble) with questionable local support will be signled out for going with political lobbyst and not local voters.... These Republican House Representatives are shltting in their pants as Democrats push for a Bill...

Bye Wayne... You should be thanking GOD that you have appointed friends to your board. However, given the lossing revenue, your days are numbered. My guess is that you will run out of the position in the next 24 months.... Bye Jackass.

"Gabby Giffords deserves a vote. The families of Newtown deserve a vote. The families of Aurora deserve a vote," Obama said to sustained applause. "The families of Oak Creek and Tucson and Blacksburg and the countless other communities ripped open by gun violence –- they deserve a simple vote."

I wonder if the people in Chicago will get a vote?

Wayne's World sure is a strange place...

Party liners : "Where's your logic and reasoning? If you have actually read the posts on this site you'll see that far left liberals such as the "redhead," are unintelligent hatters."

So, you're saying Feisty is an uneducated milliner. Had to point that out. Your spelling is as inaccurate as your opinions.

Honestly, you and all your brethren need to get a different religion other than guns, you need to stop listening to all the fear mongering from the NRA, you need to develop some sympathy for those who have lost family members to gun violence, and you need to realize Wayne LaPierre is just earning his paycheck and stop taking him so seriously. So far, no concern or sign of actual understanding from LaPierre of what gun violence can do to families and their communities. His only concern is boosting gun sales by getting as many guns as possible into schools. What do most people do when they see an insanely humongous four-wheeler on the road? They look at the driver and if he's male, well, we all assume he has something to prove in a certain area. The same applies to gun freaks.

thturd

You do know that there are democrats that oppose strict gun laws and republicans who are in support of minor laws.

The Nicodemus

Brenda1964;

Spoken like a good little Nazi. What's next?, snitching out the Jews next door? Signed up to serve the Brown shirts, have you?

No, I leave that kinda weird freaky stuff to you Repugnates, I am more concerned with helping my neighbors not screwing them to get ahead. That's what the Republicans are all about. Oh and not sure what the brown shirts comment is all about, is that some sort of racist remark because the President is black? I guess there are some of you in every crowd.

Reading these posts, it's clear that a majority of those trying to make a point are merely spouting out utter nonsense. How many true Marxists are there likely in this country? Maybe 1,000? Yet reading these right-wing posters' comments, one would think that our country is awash with this type of thinking. The fact that some people also feel that the terms Marxist, Communist, and Fascist are interchangeable is utterly laughable (almost as funny is the spelling most of these half-wits stumble over). President Obama is asking for the nation to at least have a vote on his new gun control ideas, yet the right wing is the side that doesn't even want to have the will of the people known. Also, how many dictators (another popular right-wing insult toward our President) would actually hold a vote on legislation instead of enacting it in a motion of tyranny? I have a bit of information for the fringe right-wing posters on here. President Obama is neither a Marxist, a Communist, a Fascist, a Nazi, or a dictator. He's a twice elected, mostly centrist democratic president, and if any of you feel that this isn't the case, please cite your proof otherwise.

In agreement

Wow, an extra t was added.

Anyhow, it's not an opinion, it's a fact. She is a hater towards republicans and if you can't see that in her writing, then you are blind.

Gun people do have sympathy towards people who die from guns or anything for that matter. Gun people just aren't stupid enough to give up any of their freedom as it appears you are willing to do. Why are you so willing to put controls on guns, but not on knives, bats, cars, etc? All of them kill people.

Locke1632

your babbling is not represented with facts have any??

Lets put it this way even after all the chit chat and mud slinging nothing or very little will happen because this congress and the current administration are like cats running in a field full of butterfly's and very easily distracted from making the the original goal. My point being is when they think they are saying what we want to hear in the public eyes they will only go after what they think will move them ahead in their political career. This applies for all the parties involved..

Party-liners -- Obama isn't taking away guns. Calm down. If you need the kinds of ammo and assault weapons he wants to make illegal or regulate, then you have some serious 'splaining to do. Think about it. Even if rabid, evil LaPierre got his wish and armed guards were in every school, the shooter in Newtown, for example, with the weapons he had, could have taken out dozens in a minute before guards could have made it to the scene. Let's bring some sanity to this situation.

I don't see Feisty as a hater. She hates what the current version of the Republican party stands for. If the Repubs put the public ahead of their wallets for a change, I think her stance would adjust to that.

I hope you realize that no one is winning or is going win this argument. The only winner here is Big Business (including gun manufacturers) and the Uber Wealthy who will continue to fan the flames of this fabricated battle between the voters / citizens of this country.

The objective for them is to keep the voters divided and distracted from the real enemy, the ones who have captured our government and continue to perpetrate the ongoing heist from each and every one of us including the country as a whole.

With the constant quibbling and calling each other liberals, conservatives, democrats, republicans libtards, right-wing nuts blah blah blah blah you play right into their hands and give them the open field to continue the heist.

While you all fight, get frustrated, angry and outright crazy, they’re laughing all the way to the bank.

Actually, Party, there ARE controls on knives, bats and cars, all items with a primary use far different than that of guns, so why should guns be unregulated? Do we do away with the banning of M-60's? How about F-16's? And do we follow LaPierre who now is telling us that background checks themselves infringe on our rights?

brenda1964

No, I leave that kinda weird freaky stuff to you Repugnates, I am more concerned with helping my neighbors not screwing them to get ahead. That's what the Republicans are all about. Oh and not sure what the brown shirts comment is all about, is that some sort of racist remark because the President is black? I guess there are some of you in every crowd.

"Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it," George Santayana

In agreement

I'm not saying Obama will take away guns. Obama will put some restrictions on guns. Later presidents will ban them. As for the "splaining to do," you will wish that you had semi-automatic weapons when WWIII happens or a "terminator" like event occurs in the future, etc. Don't laugh at the "terminator" comment, because it can and will probably happen with the way people are.

On the armed guard topic. It's better to have one than not to have one. There are many people who could kill dozens of people with a pistol in under a minute. That's partly why the whole ban military style semi-automatic weapons is irrelevant. It has to do with the magazine size and the person.

Party-liners -- I'm more concerned about a "terminator" like event coming from the severely frustrated, right-wing, NRA worshipping, paranoid gun freaks than any threat from the government, as long as there's a Democratic president, that is. And guns will never be made illegal. Certain guns, though, only belong in the military and not in the public where everyone and anyone can get their hands on them. As has been proven, adequate background checks don't happen.

Over and out for today.

In agreement

On Fiesty and other far lefties/righties.

Personally I think she is. I've been reading some her comments since before the election and I have yet to see her say anything nice about the republicans or disrespectful about the democrats. Also, I don't like anyone who is a far lefty or righty of which Fiesty is a far lefty. Party-liners do not benefit the conversation since they don't acknowledge the other side on things they've done right or bash their own party. Or so i've yet to see one do so. I know the majority don't though.

truthhurtsattimes

I do not see any difference in armed grades in schools Then I see in the Highway patrol or the sheriffs department. If you want to call this a police state then lets get rid of them. Now we all need to have a gun

Party-liners wreck the country

In agreement

On Fiesty and other far lefties/righties.

Personally I think she is. I've been reading some her comments since before the election and I have yet to see her say anything nice about the republicans or disrespectful about the democrats. Also, I don't like anyone who is a far lefty or righty of which Fiesty is a far lefty. Party-liners do not benefit the conversation since they don't acknowledge the other side on things they've done right or bash their own party. Or so i've yet to see one do so. I know the majority don't though.

First of all, you can't say anything nice about the Republicans, because they don't do anything worth making a comment on except to say that they are obstructionists. That's as nice as it gets for them. As far as Democrats, we make mistakes, but for the most part, we are for the people, not the rich guys.

brenda1964

I'm going to break down the post you wrote to me.

1. You can say nice things about some republicans. Just as you can't say nice things about some dems.

2. There are nice repubs. Reading many of the far lefts posts on here, I would say that the far left is the worst. That's far left, not all of the left.

3. Yes, just as all people, dems make mistakes.

4. Supporting abortion or taking away some rights isn't exactly for the people. There are also many rich democrats.

The media makes out the suggestion to put security in schools to guard our children to be 'wacko'. Let's see, we put armed security at banks, courthouses, malls, police stations, corporate offices, escorting politicians, etc, but Obama doesn't think our children are worthy of protection. Yeah, I get the hint. I'll not be voting for any more democrats this coming election, not by far.

I Resigned - Because Cars / Bats are not constitutional rights...

MGuy - Please show these statistics for the "90%" because the majority of people I see at our gun range here don't fit your "90%" category ...

If things continue as they are, the GOP will probably run Wayne LaPierre for President in 2016. It's not out the question, they did attempt to do the same with Donald Trump, after that disaster, anything is possible!!

LOL!!!

RCWA

The media makes out the suggestion to put security in schools to guard our children to be 'wacko'. Let's see, we put armed security at banks, malls, corporate offices

And what do those places have to do with taxpayer paid guards? Really....

but Obama doesn't think our children are worthy of protection

Man you people are sad! You have proof President Obama said that?

Starman-2398642 #1.101 - Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:20 PM CST

LOL!!! You sound like a comedian.....

So FOS, you want NO regulations whatsoever? Bring on the machine guns, bring on the fighter jets; a tank in every garage, right? No regulating felons or the insane?

Brenda, the "brown shirt" comments are regarding the Nazi party. Until you understand BOTH history, and what you are reading, PLEASE refrain from making comments, as you obviously do not have a clue about what's really going on here. I am a gun owner, and a republitard, and I remember the days when at school, each and EVERY morning, we would say the Pledge of Allegiance, which I understand. Whether it's the first or second amendment, or Rowe vs Wade, you will remain undereducated, no matter how many degrees you have or for which you are studying. Regardless of Dem. vs. Repubs, or Libs, or Indies, this argument is about the slow abrasion of ALL of our Amendment rights. Do You not understand that regardless of party politics, once they do away with one, each one will (albeit slowly) be removed as well? Slowly and insiduously, they will disappear, one by one! Do You want your right to free speech removed? Do You really WANT the right given to we, as all Americans, to revolt against an uber controlling government removed? Although, that's already been abolished, under the name of "National Security". Do You even understand how badly our government bungled the entire "Ruby Ridge" episode? Or do you just not care?

And before you call me a nut job, read up on it. No, I don't agree with the likes of the KKK, or the Posse Commitatus (remember the Kehoe brothers shootout?). I just believe in our rights, as our great great great (however far)grandparents fought and died for. THEY created a GREAT nation (yes, there were crazies even then) but we were freed from unjust actions from our overlord, King George! In the years to come, do you have a doubt that some citenzenry will rise up (in all right, as GUARANTEED by our CONSTITUTION!) to overthrow an unjust government? Our prices for even groceries are inflated, and our dollar has been devalued (we NEVER should have been taken off the Gold standard), and we workers are struggling to make ends meet..And now we are being called upon to basically 'socialize' health care, which will cost everyone more money (how is our current POTUS going to come up with the money to back THAT program?).

This is NOT about guns (which the criminals will ALWAYS be able to obtain via the drug cartels or the outlaw biker gangs supplied by our own government...Fast and Furious), and although I will NEVER give up my personal gun, jail me or not, but about the removal of our American Constitutional rights?

Problem is gun nuts are shooting up the entire country, not just schools.

When are the anti-gun nuts going to get it? All the gun laws in the world aren't going to work! It only penalizes the law abiding gun owners.

Why you ask? BECAUSE THE CRIMINALS DON'T CARE ABOUT THE LAW! Why?! Because they are CRIMINALS!!! Criminals will always find a way to get a gun. And it won't be from a firearms dealer and going through the legal process!

New York, Illinois, California...States that have some the toughest gun laws and still have a high incidence of "gun violence"! Why? Because the ones doing the "gun violence" are "CRIMINALS"!!!! And, oh yeah, they don't care about the laws!

wow spiddas, your "communist manifesto" reads just like the goals of the theocratic religious movement and their desire to press their "christian dominion" upon all citizens in this country.

bill36 #1.27~~How many worthless asses, has been saved by this man or by someone he represents???

To all you pro-gun, pro-NRA types who insist Obama or the government is going to take your guns.

Y'all need to chill the F out. NO ONE is going to come to get your guns if stricter gun laws are passed. How can I state that with such confidence? Two reasons.

First, whatever legislation is put in place will NOT be retroactive. Meaning, if you, at this very moment, own any weapons or weapon accessories that the law may or may not outlaw, the law will be enforced from the time it is enacted. So they can't confiscate any such items if bought legally up to the point the law is enacted. It was the same way with the Brady bill back when.

Second, there are enough folks out there who are so enamored with their weapons that if anyone tried to take them away there'd be firefights all across the nation. A bunch of mini-Wacos. No matter how paranoid some of the people commenting here in this discussion are, trust me, the truth is that the last thing Obama or the government want is dead law-enforcement personnel or civilians being shown regularly on the nightly news.

It ain't gonna happen. So give it a rest already.

The Five Rules of Propaganda, courtesy of Norman Davies in his extraordinary book "Europe: A History":

The rule of simplification: Reducing all data to a simple confrontation between ‘Good and Bad’, ‘Friend and Foe’ (or even 'Right and Wrong' as published in today's Times).

The rule of disfiguration: Discrediting the opposition by crude smears and parodies.

The rule of transfusion: Manipulating the consensus values of the target audience for one’s own ends.

The rule of unanimity: Presenting one’s viewpoint as if it were the unanimous opinion of all right-thinking people: draining the doubting individual into agreement by the appeal of star-performers, by social pressure, and by ‘psychological contagion’.

The rule of orchestration: Endlessly repeating the same messages in different variations and combinations.

Example: NRA = Sociopathic Terrorists. Guns = Evil.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Congratulations, Iseeconfusedpeople. You fit the profile! {sarcasm}

Come back when you have something useful to discuss. {crickets chipping}

BTW - I do not belong to the NRA. Never have. Don't plan on joining anytime soon.

"It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." -- Douglas Adams

Anyone who believes much of anything politicians tell them is a naive, brainwashed, gullible sheep. I don't care if the politicians are DemoCrip, RepubiBlood, or Other...deep down inside your mostly dormant brains you KNOW they are liars and con men (or con women). If you don't know that by the age of adulthood you're hopeless.

The SOTU is just a dog and pony show...wake up. Until Woodrow Wilson there was no SOTU speech...it was just a letter. We should go back to that Founding tradition instead of treating the Executive like he's royalty. But many of you revel in pomp and circumstance of Inauguration Balls and the Cult of Personality surrounding these liars and con men.

Nostalgia and empty promises do not a hero make.

Only Partisans and sheep will disagree here. Don't be one. Think for yourself and question authority.

As soon as the 2nd Amendment is effectively dismantled, the Constitution will be null and void and America will descend to the level of all the sad oppressed nations of world history.

my2cent$:

It ain't gonna happen. So give it a rest already.

Any legislation is only part of the problem. The other part of the problem lies in the UN Treaty that keeps getting brought forth. And only a fool thinks that it will not affect Americans because of the 2nd Amendment. This is wrong! Don't believe me? Check this out: Treaty Dictates from a Committee of Vultures

It may seem pretty benign, (especially as it is regarding a totally different topic), but seldom does any government act with a straightforward Modus Operandi...

"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

"HAMMER STOUTLY, PRAY DEVOUTLY : MOULD IT NEARER TO THE HEART'S DESIRE." -- The Fabian {Socialist} Society

To those that believe in the coincidence theories propagated by the Authorities... Remember the last words that Caesar uttered in the Roman Senate during that conspiracy: "Et tu, Brute'?" [and then Caesar fell.]

Houston!

Dave G.-1164488

Let's hope not...the Republicans are the only political group preventing the facists ( Obama and his cronies) from American and then Global domination.

You mean fascist. There's no such thing as a facist. And Obama is the democratically elected President of the United States.

#1.22

So was Hitler. So was Mussolini. Well sort of anyway. They were appointed by elected officials, subordinate to those officials. But through the judicious use of force, and more than a little political maneuvering they were able to take over control.

But I think you misunderstand Fascism. Most people seem to equate it with racism, antisemitism, or Right Wing politics, etc. Fascism is actually none of these things, it is merely an economic theory. It combines Capitalism, (private ownership) with Communism (Government Control). Fascism has been in the past the realm of dictators, but there is nothing in the Dogma that dictates that it must be so. That is, there is no reason that a Fascist leader must be a Dictator, and not a democratically elected official. It is only typical that a person with that much power is usually unwilling to voluntarily relinquish it.

And guess what, we already have something of a Fascist State right here in the Good ol' US of A. Who do you think controls the money supply? The Interest Rate? Commodity Prices? And soon to be Health Care? And several other aspects of our meager existence? And guess who started it all, a great fan of Mussolini himself, Franklin Delano. Before the war broke out, circa 1934, FDR wrote at least one letter I am aware of, possibly several more, praising Mussolini, and I think even Hitler, for the work they had accomplished in their respective countries. And if I remember correctly, he even lamented the fact he had to work within the Frame of the Constitution. Imagine that.

I have lost my copy of that letter, or any references to it, but I did find this:

Roosevelt himself called Mussolini “admirable” and professed that he was “deeply impressed by what he has accomplished.” The admiration was mutual. In a laudatory review of Roosevelt’s 1933 book Looking Forward, Mussolini wrote, “Reminiscent of Fascism is the principle that the state no longer leaves the economy to its own devices.…Without question, the mood accompanying this sea change resembles that of Fascism.” The chief Nazi newspaper, Volkischer Beobachter, repeatedly praised “Roosevelt’s adoption of National Socialist strains of thought in his economic and social policies” and “the development toward an authoritarian state” based on the “demand that collective good be put before individual self-interest.” [reason.com/archives/2007/09/28/hitler-mussolini-roosevelt]

Yes, America is moving in the same direction as did Italy and Germany, only more slowly. But make no mistake it will eventually arrive at that door step. Sooner than later if we maintain our current course. But I guess this is what you all wanted isn't it? It is what you all vote for, even if you don't understand it.

@Spiddas

I have no reason to NOT believe you. But I revert to what I said in my post, too many gun owners won't tolerate mucking about with the laws if it means they'll have to turn over their weapons. Some WILL fight it out with authorities if they feel they're being persecuted, rightfully or wrongfully.

It just can't happen. There'd be armed insurrection, maybe even civil war. Not condoning or advocating it, just calling it as I see it.

Some WILL fight it out with authorities if they feel they're being persecuted, rightfully or wrongfully.

That IS a legitimate fear, believe it or not, on both sides. If it were to happen, it would be a very, VERY small group of PEOPLE, (not guns), that would be doing it. And most everyone I know has no interest whatsoever in going to war with the government. So it's those "wild cards" that has everyone concerned.

So it's those "wild cards" that has everyone concerned.

Agreed. So I put forth again the notion that no one, not Obama, not the government, not the populace at large wants to see that run on the nightly news every other night/week, whatever.

But how many "wildcards" are there in the States? 50,000 maybe? More? Less? Out of some 313,900,000?

Di-3075040

Brenda, the "brown shirt" comments are regarding the Nazi party. Until you understand BOTH history, and what you are reading, PLEASE refrain from making comments, as you obviously do not have a clue about what's really going on here. I am a gun owner, and a republitard, and I remember the days when at school, each and EVERY morning, we would say the Pledge of Allegiance, which I understand. Whether it's the first or second amendment, or Rowe vs Wade, you will remain undereducated, no matter how many degrees you have or for which you are studying. Regardless of Dem. vs. Repubs, or Libs, or Indies, this argument is about the slow abrasion of ALL of our Amendment rights. Do You not understand that regardless of party politics, once they do away with one, each one will (albeit slowly) be removed as well? Slowly and insiduously, they will disappear, one by one! Do You want your right to free speech removed? Do You really WANT the right given to we, as all Americans, to revolt against an uber controlling government removed? Although, that's already been abolished, under the name of "National Security". Do You even understand how badly our government bungled the entire "Ruby Ridge" episode? Or do you just not care?

And before you call me a nut job, read up on it. No, I don't agree with the likes of the KKK, or the Posse Commitatus (remember the Kehoe brothers shootout?). I just believe in our rights, as our great great great (however far)grandparents fought and died for. THEY created a GREAT nation (yes, there were crazies even then) but we were freed from unjust actions from our overlord, King George! In the years to come, do you have a doubt that some citizenry will rise up (in all right, as GUARANTEED by our CONSTITUTION!) to overthrow an unjust government? Our prices for even groceries are inflated, and our dollar has been devalued (we NEVER should have been taken off the Gold standard), and we workers are struggling to make ends meet..And now we are being called upon to basically 'socialize' health care, which will cost everyone more money (how is our current POTUS going to come up with the money to back THAT program?).

This is NOT about guns (which the criminals will ALWAYS be able to obtain via the drug cartels or the outlaw biker gangs supplied by our own government...Fast and Furious), and although I will NEVER give up my personal gun, jail me or not, but about the removal of our American Constitutional rights?

#1.112

An excellent post, and no doubt poor Brenda will fail to comprehend any of it. (It is a good thing The Nicodemus didn't reference the Black shirts, he would have been crucified) ;-)

One correction though,

From the Declaration of Independence:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,...

The same sentiment was carried through to the Constitution, and no, I have not found a single quote from any of them proclaiming this. This comes from reading a myriad of books, "The Federalist Papers", "Anti Federalist Papers", "The Constitution for Dummies", a multitude of books and quotes from the Founding Fathers, etc, culminating in that conclusion. As I said before, The Constitution is an extension of the Declaration.

"The Declaration of independence...[is the] declaratory charter of our rights, and of the rights of man." Thomas Jefferson 1819

(you will note that this quote comes several years after both the Declaration and Constitution were written.)

So according to the Authors of the Declaration, and the Constitution, we are all born with our Rights.

The sole purpose of the US Constitution was to create the Federal Government, set limits upon it and establish a treaty among the Sovereign States. Among those limits, is that it shall not "Infringe upon a Citizens Right to keep and bear arms". The US Constitution in no way, grants, gives or otherwise guarantees our Rights. It is up to the Citizenry, to protect its Rights. Which why the Authors of the Constitution spelled it out by limiting the Federal Governments authority to infringe upon this right.

Also since you brought it up "being called upon to basically 'socialize' health care," and the Government is going to subsidize this "Right" (access to Health Care is a Right according to the Liberals who wrote and rallied behind the ACA) I am trying start a class action, (under the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment and Article 4 section 2) to getting subsidizing for our 2nd Amendments Rights.

Any one willing to help out, comment here or click on my avatar and contact me there.

my2cent$

So it's those "wild cards" that has everyone concerned.

Agreed. So I put forth again the notion that no one, not Obama, not the government, not the populace at large wants to see that run on the nightly news every other night/week, whatever.

But how many "wildcards" are there in the States? 50,000 maybe? More? Less? Out of some 313,900,000? #1.126

But that is all it takes isn't it? As long as there is 'detente' between the Government, and the governed. Which is mostly the point behind the 2nd Amendment. As long as there is a balance between an armed society and the Government Instituted by that society, or the majority support the Government as in the Whiskey Rebellion or other such conflicts (union uprising and the like) the threat of violence should be enough to keep the Government in check. Or at least that is the hope.

wolverines

30 years, good for you and tank you for your service. What did you get out as, E3 or E4, All you can do is call people Commies and what ever fantasy BS you can come up with. Just another patriot wannabe, nothing more.

You would have fit right in with the SS. Your way or leave the country. Sorry pal, somebody has to stay and keep racist idiots like you on the ropes and at bay. If you were a Marine I'm sure they were happy to be rid of you.

Does this guy have any credibility? He said the solution to gun violence is more guns.

Wayne Lapierre, CEO of America's #1 terrorist organization, the NRA, received a draft deferment during the Vietnam War because he is mentally unstable. The fact there are people out there who are so wrapped up in their dimly lit fantasy worlds that they would believe so much as a word LaPierre says speaks volumes about their sanity as well as their lack of integrity, honor, and moral courage. It's sad, really.

Gun control. Now, more than ever, it's the right thing to do.

I am gun owner and am for legal ownership. What I don't get about "gun nuts" that keep pointing to the 2nd ammendment is they don't seem to read it all the way through. What the fuk do you a holes think "well regulated" means? It means we can legally have guns but the ownership needs to be well regulated.

This is Sailcat-2064101 opinion about the second amendment after proving facts about what the Forefather intent for the 2nd was"

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/31/16791677-texas-assistant-da-shot-to-death-at-least-one-gunman-sought?threadId=3657131&commentId=73861989#c73861989

#1.87

We are only one little Supreme Court decision away from a complete reinterpretation of the Second Amendment, little guy. Stay tuned!

So as you see, he is one of the liberals that like to try to reinterpret the Constitution to their way of thinking verses the true intent of the Constitution.

Ignore him..........

The purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to allow the people the ability to fight by against a tyrannical government.

A. The Federalist Papers, No. 28: Alexander Hamilton expressed that when a government betrays the people by amassing too much power and becoming tyrannical, the people have no choice but to exercise their original right of self-defense — to fight the government.[Halbrook, p. 67]

B. The Federalist Papers, No. 29: Alexander Hamilton explained that an armed citizenry was the best and only real defense against a standing army becoming large and oppressive. [Halbrook, p. 67]

C. The Federalist Papers, No. 46: James Madison contended that ultimate authority resides in the people, and that if the federal government got too powerful and overstepped its authority, then the people would develop plans of resistance and resort to arms. [Halbrook, p. 67]

D. There was no National Guard, and the Founders opposed anything but a very small national military. The phrase “well-regulated” means well-trained and disciplined — not “regulated” as we understand that term in the modern sense of bureaucratic regulation. [This meaning still can be found in the unabridged Oxford English Dictionary, 2d ed. 1989, Vol 13, p. 524, and Vol 20. p. 138.]

E. The Federalists promised that state governments and citizen militias would exist to make sure the federal military never became large or oppressive. To say that the National Guard replaces the notion of the militia runs contrary to what the Founders said and wrote.

F. The Third Amendment: Expressly restrains the federal government from building a standing army and infiltrating it among the people ...and at the people’s expense ... in times of peace. The Third Amendment runs against the idea of a permanent standing army or federalized National Guard in principle, if not by its words.

*********

CHALLENGE TO AMERICANS

As you read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights:

• (1) Look at the enumerated powers of the federal government;
• (2) Look at the express limitations on federal power as set forth in the Second, Ninth, and Tenth Amendments;
• (3) Ask yourself, where does the federal government get any power at all to regulate firearms?
• (4) Ask yourself, why don’t the high school and college textbooks devote any time to the history, philosophical basis and practical meaning of the Second Amendment?

And then consider that law students and future lawyers likewise have received precious little education about the Second Amendment.

Realize, too, that the judges know just about as little. Then imagine how little the average American knows — based on the average public school coverage of the Constitution.

The protection of our sacred right of self-defense against both petty criminals and oppressive government — the right of civilians to keep and bear arms — is in your hands.

http://jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/six-about-2nd.htm

Pippo Schillaci -" I am gun owner and am for legal ownership. What I don't get about "gun nuts" that keep pointing to the 2nd amendment is they don't seem to read it all the way through. What the fuk do you a holes think "well regulated" means? It means we can legally have guns but the ownership needs to be well regulated."

Please Google "Well Regulated Militia" to see what it means in the context of the people writing the Second Amendment. "The phrase “well-regulated” means well-trained and disciplined" or well armed and accessorized. And ALL citizens of the US are in the militia, so the updated translation of the Second Amendment:

A well-armed citizenry, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Gun owners who do not support the Second Amendment may end up ex-gun owners.

@ ReasonableApproach Correct!

Everyone else against guns and the 2nd:

All male citizens at least 17 years old are in the unorganized militia. See the below, its in the law books.

The un-organized is the men eligible for the draft and not part of the organized militia.

Its in the law books as well that unorganized militia are members not of the organized militia.

Go research people, you have given nothing but your own subjective opinions on what you think the 2nd means. I have provided documentation to back mine up, where is yours?

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/10C13.txt

    10 USC CHAPTER 13 - THE MILITIA                             01/03/2012 (112-90)

    TITLE 10 - ARMED FORCES
    Subtitle A - General Military Law
    PART I - ORGANIZATION AND GENERAL MILITARY POWERS
    CHAPTER 13 - THE MILITIA
                         CHAPTER 13 - THE MILITIA
    Sec.
    311.        Militia: composition and classes.
    312.        Militia duty: exemptions.
    10 USC Sec. 311                                             01/03/2012 (112-90)
    TITLE 10 - ARMED FORCES
    Subtitle A - General Military Law
    PART I - ORGANIZATION AND GENERAL MILITARY POWERS
    CHAPTER 13 - THE MILITIA
    Sec. 311. Militia: composition and classes
      (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied
    males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section
    313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a
    declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States
    and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the
    National Guard.
      (b) The classes of the militia are -
        (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard
      and the Naval Militia; and

        (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of
      the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the
      Naval Militia.

The above (2) is militia

@ Travis-1944

Sigh.

A message for Mr. LaPierre from the non-crazies of this country:

#1.139

Cute, real mature. You really should stop projecting, if you even know what that means.

But what the hay. Right Back atcha....

Correction. It is DC v. Heller, not Keller. typo, sorry.

btw @ lookingforward, this makes the Militia argument academic. Also, It is my birth Right to defend my Right to Life as set forth in the Declaration, again a point that makes Militia mute.

And Remember you have no "Constitutional" Rights, only "God Given" Rights, Birth Rights. The Constitution only sets limits upon the Government, as to what it may do with those Rights.

wow, I really got under the skins of the nut jobs on here. Must be doing something right, lol.

If I need a license to have a dog, why are some gun owners so opposed to similar licensing of guns? You are truly paranoid if you think, in the 21st century USA, that the government is going to go door to door to take your guns. However, if your gun is used in a crime or to kill someone, then yes, it should be confiscated because you are too irresponsible to own that gun. Just like I would lose my beloved dog if he attacked and killed the child next door. We live in a civilized SOCIETY. Rights are not absolute; if they have the potential to harm others, or infringe on others' rights, they can be regulated.

#1.130:

Here are 5 fact about gun control that those that support gun control don't want you to know

No...here is one of the NRA's talking points.

I'm so sick of that Wayne Lapierre moron. Some of the drivel he's said, like "everybody needs to arm themselves" because of renegade Mexican drugs dealers, inner-city gangs branching out, wholesale looting in Brooklyn after Sandy, even to be ready for the next "terrorist attack" (as though al Qaeda is going to launch a comprehensive invasion like in the movie Red Dawn) is all a crock of bullsh*t! Lapierre is making it more and more obvious that one of two things is going on: 1) he's completely in the pockets of the firearms industry, or 2) he's gone insane.

I think it's #2. And he's following the GOP model: tell the same lie over and over and over again and people will start to believe it. In his case it's the lie that "Obama is coming for your guns!", and it's predominantly the uneducated and weak minded among us who are buying his crap...

brenda1964

wow, I really got under the skins of the nut jobs on here. Must be doing something right, lol.

#1.145

No, Brenda. Not really getting under (at least my skin) skins. It just bothers me that an American, or at least someone who claims to be an American, can be so willfully ignorant and misguided about History and the Constitution. Or the true function of the Government, as created, and limited by that Constitution.

I shake my head and think, "People can NOT be this STUPID". Surely, I think, "They are being facetious, or cynical", but sadly, no they are not. Just as a for instances, did you get the crack about "Black Shirts" or did you have to Goggle it right away? And what is truly pathetic, is that you think (or project) of us as the "Nut Jobs".

You, Pigotry, Sailcat, R.I. Mom, Feisty RH, Dman, Big Jeff, et. al. of like mind all LOVE Obama do you not? It is a purely emotional attraction. Have you ever paid any attention (obviously not since did not know what a Brown Shirt was) to the History Channel. The Discovery Channel? Next time, pay attention to shows like "Hitler- The Rise to Power" "Hitler-the Fatal Attraction", Hitler had the same mesmerizing grip on the German people and they showed him the same adoration that you people show Obama. Can't happen here, right? How many Germans thought the same thing, "This is 1938, not the middle ages, we have laws..." Yep, they HAD laws.

And remember I am comparing Hitler to Obama, I am not equating the two. (something you liberals really seem to have slim grasp on)

DG_W

#1.130:

Here are 5 fact about gun control that those that support gun control don't want you to know

No...here is one of the NRA's talking points.

I'm so sick of that Wayne Lapierre moron. Some of the drivel he's said, like "everybody needs to arm themselves" because of renegade Mexican drugs dealers, inner-city gangs branching out, wholesale looting in Brooklyn after Sandy, even to be ready for the next "terrorist attack" (as though al Qaeda is going to launch a comprehensive invasion like in the movie Red Dawn) is all a crock of bullsh*t! Lapierre is making it more and more obvious that one of two things is going on: 1) he's completely in the pockets of the firearms industry, or 2) he's gone insane.

I think it's #2. And he's following the GOP model: tell the same lie over and over and over again and people will start to believe it. In his case it's the lie that "Obama is coming for your guns!", and it's predominantly the uneducated and weak minded among us who are buying his crap...

#1.147

"And he's following the GOP model: tell the same lie over and over and over"

No, that comes from Alinsky RULE 11: “If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.” Or do you even know who Alinsky is? Better Google it quick.

God, you people are even falling for own stuff, get a clue.

Read my post to Brenda.

like "everybody needs to arm themselves"

And please provide a link to that quote.

The NRA has totally lost its credibility now. Their arguments are way extreme. How many times do they think we want to shoot a deer, an intruder, a varmint? Idiots. It's obvious they are controlled by the gun manufacturers, or maybe the extreme paranoid right wing-nut militia. Nobody else could be so stupid.

Owner of two rifles.

LookingForward is extremely afraid the American people may use our judiciary system to make changes in the interpretation of the Second Amendment. His irrational response actually exposes him as a craven coward. No surprises there, right?

Gun control. Now, more than ever, it is the right thing to do.

No, that comes from Alinsky RULE 11: “If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.” Or do you even know who Alinsky is? Better Google it quick.

Geez, I knew the GOP didn't invent the method for spreading bullsh*t, but they sure as hell use it! Moot point if I can't cite the original; it doesn't take away from the fact that they use it.

And please provide a link to that quote.

Ummm...http://thinkprogress.org/progress-report/you-wont-believe-what-he-said/?mobile=nc

Wayne Lapierre is doing his best to spread fear, and the weak minded are buying it.

Next time, pay attention to shows like "Hitler- The Rise to Power" "Hitler-the Fatal Attraction", Hitler had the same mesmerizing grip on the German people and they showed him the same adoration that you people show Obama

Once again the ignorant try to compare Hitler the Nazi with Obama the Supposed Socialist. Quick lesson: the Nazis were far right, and Obama is more to the left. That is why the Germans invaded Russia, because their ideologies were polar opposites. Obama is not nationalizing everything in preparation for war like the Nazis did!

Oh...and Brown Shirts, the SA that Hitler had purged in the Night Of The Long Knives in 1934; before that there were the Black Shirts, Mussolini's elite guard.

Sailcat-2064101

Why do you think that people won't eventually change the 2nd amendment? It can be done.

All you fools out there who think that putting restrictions on certain guns will stop mass killings, it won't. It's obvious that many of the anti-gun people have never handled or shot a gun before. If those anti-gun people have shot a gun before, they would know that many people can kill dozens of people with a pistol in under a minute. Gun violence will not go down no matter what laws are put in place. The real issues that need to be addressed such as mentals, criminals, morality, etc., aren't really.

If dems are so much for freedom of choice, why can't I have what gun I want? Don't try and say because guns kill. You can't say that because things you're trying to pass such as abortion which kills our youth, and gay rights which in the end kills them because of the disease they get, etc., kills many more. Not to mention that banning certain guns will only allow criminals exclusive use which will result in more violence.

The real issues that need to be addressed such as mentals, criminals, morality, etc., aren't really.

So how do you address that? Universal background checks! And Wayne Lapierre is against that!

gay rights which in the end kills them because of the disease they get, etc.

My wife and I have a 60 year old gay friend who has no diseases. That's a straw man fallacy.

So how do you address that? Universal background checks! And Wayne Lapierre is against that!

Possibly. What do I care about what Wayne Lapierre thinks. It's not like all gun people are against it.

My wife and I have a 60 year old gay friend who has no diseases. That's a straw man fallacy.

I didn't intend it to mean that every single gay person will die from a disease. There are ones who of course will not. I'm sure that overall you understand what i'm getting at.

DG_W

No, that comes from Alinsky RULE 11: “If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.” Or do you even know who Alinsky is? Better Google it quick.

Geez, I knew the GOP didn't invent the method for spreading bullsh*t, but they sure as hell use it! Moot point if I can't cite the original; it doesn't take away from the fact that they use it.

And please provide a link to that quote.

Ummm...http://thinkprogress.org/progress-report/you-wont-believe-what-he-said/?mobile=nc

Wayne Lapierre is doing his best to spread fear, and the weak minded are buying it.

Next time, pay attention to shows like "Hitler- The Rise to Power" "Hitler-the Fatal Attraction", Hitler had the same mesmerizing grip on the German people and they showed him the same adoration that you people show Obama

Once again the ignorant try to compare Hitler the Nazi with Obama the Supposed Socialist. Quick lesson: the Nazis were far right, and Obama is more to the left. That is why the Germans invaded Russia, because their ideologies were polar opposites. Obama is not nationalizing everything in preparation for war like the Nazis did!

#1.152

OK, let's back up a little bit. Just What lies are the GOP or the NRA telling over and over again?

7. But The NRA Is Totally Not Paranoid: “Hurricanes. Tornadoes. Riots. Terrorists. Gangs. Lone criminals. These are perils we are sure to face—not just maybe. It’s not paranoia to buy a gun. It’s survival. It’s responsible behavior, and it’s time we encourage law-abiding Americans to do just that.”

Because if you arrived at "everybody needs to arm themselves", from encouraging LAW-ABIDING American's need to practice responsible behavior, to be prepared, (as the Boy Scout motto goes) to defend themselves from possible, if not probable threats, then it is no wonder you think everything the GOP and NRA say is a lie. Hell, you can't read. Or at least you suffer from a reading comprehension disability, attributed to most Liberals misunderstanding of the World.

And just because the New York mayor says no looting occurred and the MSM isn't reporting it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. The mayor is most likely covering his butt, or perhaps it didn't happen in his jurisdiction. And the MSM isn't going to validate LaPierre's claims.

You know, I am just really getting tired of arguing with the truly ignorant. You have absolutely know idea what you are talking about. Where do you get the Propaganda that Fascism or Nazis is "Far Right"? The "A majority of scholars identify Nazism in practice as a form of far-right politics." quote from Wikipedia? Far Right is Anarchism, not Classic Liberalism, aka Conservatism. Take an Economics class. (and try to get one that doesn't have a Modern Liberal professor) {good luck with that ;-)}

Fascism combines the control of Communism, with the Private Property of Capitalism. It is Centrist.

Politically and Economically: (in the simplest forms)(from what I remember of my college Economics classes 30 years ago)

To the Far Right is Anarchism; Zero Government (without rulers) and Private Property

To the Right is Capitalism: Limited (as in controlled) Government and Private Property.

To the Left is Fascism: Controlling Government and Private Property

To the Far Left is Communism; Controlling Government and State ownership.

And there are of course derivatives of the four main categories, which include varying degrees of Liberal Socialism, aka Modern American Liberalism, Democracy, "Democratic Rule"(i.e. one party), and Dictatorship.

OK, so as you see, the further Right you go on the Political “x axis” the more limited Government becomes, so there is no way that Fascism can be construed as Right wing.

And Nazis are far Right?

The radical Nazi Joseph Goebbels, hated capitalism, viewing it as having Jews at its core, and he stressed the need for the party to emphasize both a proletarian and national character. Those views were shared by Otto Strasser, who later left the Nazi Party in the belief that Hitler had betrayed the party's socialist goals by allegedly endorsing capitalism.^[32] Large segments of the Nazi Party staunchly supported its official socialist, revolutionary, and anti-capitalist positions and expected both a social and economic revolution upon the party gaining power in 1933 (from Wikipedia) (but it follows other books I have read on the topic)

And Obama is not a "supposed Socialist", he is in fact a Communist and a Racist.

Refute this: (he wrote it in his own book)

To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets. We smoked cigarettes and wore leather jackets. At night, in the dorms, we discussed necolonialism, Frantz Fanon, Eurocentrism, and patriarchy. "Dreams from my Father, Barack Obama.

You will notice he shunned the politically active White students, even though they too, were just as misguided as he, "To avoid being mistaken for a sellout," as he put it. He sought out Marxist, i.e. Communist, Professors. He makes it sound like it was the late sixties, but this was in the mid '80's. I was in college then, and I never heard of "Structural Feminism", it was women's rights, and by then, they were referred to as "Latino" or "Hispanic" not "Chicanos". And in the '80's, who was worried about being a "sell-out"?

He was raised in a Communist family, his mother, and grand parents were documented communists. He was mentored by a communist roll model, Frank Davis (This was reportedly sanctioned by his grand father). Also, given the company he keeps, his upbringing and the company that he associated with during his college days, just what type of conversations do you think he had while discussing neocolonialism, Frantz Fanon: a Marxist anti-Imperialist, Euro-Centrism, and patriarchy? Do you think it might have had an anti-imperialism, pro-communist slant to it? Or do you think they were pointing out the errors of Fanon and the strengths of Capitalism? And how do you think "patriarchy" fits in with the "structural Feminist"?

"I...felt betrayed." Of Onyango he says, "I had imagined him an independent man, a man of his people, opposed to white rule....What Granny had told us scrambled that image completely, causing ugly words to flash across my mind. Uncle Tom. Collaborator. House ni**er." "Dreams from my Father, Barack Obama.

You will notice he called it "WHITE" rule, not "BRITISH" rule. What he was referring to was this:

According to Sarah Obama (Granny), "Onyango respected the white man for his power, for his machines and weapons and the way he organized his life. He would say that the white man was always improving himself, whereas the African was suspicious of anything new. He admired three things about the British. The first was their level of knowledge. "To him knowledge was the source of all the white man's power," she said. Onyango also considered the British to be generally fair-minded. "If you do a good job for the white man," he liked to say, "then he will always pay you well."

Finally, Onyango unfavorably contrasted African organization with Western organization. “How can the African defeat the white man,” Onyango would tell his son Barack Sr., “when he cannot even make his own bicycle?” In Onyango's words, "The white man alone is like an ant. He can be easily crushed. But like an ant, the white man works together. His nation, his business--these things are more important to him than himself....Black men are not like this. Even the most foolish black man thinks he knows better than the white man. That is why the black man will always lose." "Why did Obama use the N-word to describe his Grandfather" By Dinesh D'Souza and quotes taken from "Dreams from my Father", Barack Obama.

From the "You didn't build it"

"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help," he continued. "There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."

"What I said was, together we build roads and bridges," Obama told a local reporter in the days after the controversy first started.

Obama believes it is a collective success, he believes the wealth from that success should be shared too.

And my guess is you believe the Constitution gives us or guarantees our Rights too.

Once again DumbFarmBoy........You seem to be the most Educated on the postings....... I have some of the same Knowledge as you on the Founders and their Documents and Papers and I have studied Constitution Law and the U.C.Codes etc. ...........Most just cannot grasp the Con being put upon them?..............The Blind leading the Blind!...................The founders knew from firsthand experience that the Worst Crimes in all History have been Perpetrated by Governments!!! ............ The 2nd Amendment is for this reason........Quote: "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's Liberty teeth and keystone under independence ....events, ocurrences, and tendencies prove that to ensure peace, security, and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference." = GEORGE WASHINGTON .................Know this you need your gun to Protect yourself against Government should it ever become a De Facto, out-of-control, Law Perverting, Oppressive system. Your gun is defense against Criminals and corrupt Government. ..........To some Brainwashed, Apathetic people this statement may sound bizarre, even frightening, but the Forefathers Knew!!....................Also you should not Confuse Love of Country with Love of Government..... Love of Country and Countrymen causes one to DETEST any Government actions which would Destroy the Country, the people, or their Constitutional-given Rights. .............Do your Research People and Ignorance may go away? .............Did you know that our Existing GUN Laws are identical to Nazi Germany's under Hitler????.................Wake up America!!!!...............Knowledge is Power!!!............ Join the Class Action.

Dumb Farm Boy... respectfully you used exerpts from a book written by President Obama to support your point. I believe you might recall from your college days that text/writings often have solicited differences of interpretations. Your choice of excerpts from President Barack Obama's book "Dreams from My Father," suggested intention or meaning that is not shared. Your comment...

Refute this: (he wrote it in his own book) ("To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets. We smoked cigarettes and wore leather jackets. At night, in the dorms, we discussed necolonialism, Frantz Fanon, Eurocentrism, and patriarchy. "Dreams from my Father, Barack Obama.")

First, I've included two excerpts from the book for consideration. I'd urge you to reference Factcheck.org they provided a few facts about how statements from the presidents books have been taken out of context. I believe the following is self explanatory as you asked in one to refute this. I've included the link to locate the following excerpts for your review.

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/06/obamas-dreams-of-my-father/

pActual quote from "Dreams from My Father" [pg. xv]: When people who don’t know me well, black or white, discover my background (and it is usually a discovery, for I ceased to advertise my mother’s race at the age of twelve or thirteen, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites), I see the split-second adjustments they have to make, the searching of my eyes for some telltale sign. They no longer know who I am. Privately, they guess at my troubled heart, I suppose – the mixed blood, the divided soul, the ghostly image of the tragic mulatto trapped between two worlds. And if I were to explain that no, the tragedy is not mine, or at least not mine alone, it is yours, sons and daughters of Plymouth Rock and Ellis Island, it is yours, children of Africa, it is the tragedy of both my wife’s six-year-old cousin and his white first grade classmates, so that you need not guess at what troubles me, it’s on the nightly news for all to see, and that if we could acknowledge at least that much then the tragic cycle begins to break down…well, I suspect that I sound incurably naive, wedded to lost hopes, like those Communists who peddle their newspapers on the fringes of various college towns. Or worse, I sound like I’m trying to hide from myself.

On its own, the quote can be interpreted as Obama rejecting his white heritage and, by extension, the entire white population. But, in full context, the statement is part of Obama’s assessment of "black or white" individuals’ first impressions of him as a person of mixed race.

Consider the era and cultural attitudes are significant influences during this period. Here's an excerpt that you've quoted that seems to have been misinterpreted or construed to be something it's not.

Misleading e-mail: From Dreams of My Father : ; "It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names."

Actual quote from "Dreams from My Father" [pg. 100-101]: To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets. We smoked cigarettes and wore leather jackets. At night, in the dorms, we discussed necolonialism, Franz Fanon, Eurocentrism, and patriarchy. When we ground out our cigarettes in the hallway carpet or set our stereos so loud that the walls began to shake, we were resisting bourgeois society’s stifling constraints. We weren’t indifferent or careless or insecure. We were alienated. But this strategy alone couldn’t provide the distance I wanted, from Joyce or my past. After all, there were thousands of so-called campus radicals, most of them white and tenured and happily tolerated. No, it remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.

On its own, the quote makes Obama appear racially militant. Whereas, in full context, the quote illustrates Obama’s confusion over his race and cultural heritage. This is emphasized in the preceding paragraph, where Obama describes himself as someone compensating for insecurity in his "racial credentials."

–Emi Kolawole and Brooks Jackson

You may find some reason to discredit Factcheck.org if so then why not refer to jstor or any other number of well respected resources. My point is that regardless of who wrote something it's interpretation relies on the authors intention. Understandably, interpretation is relevance subject to select criteria not entirely shared but possibly supported by fact. Simply, I'd encourage you to do more research to verify accuracy of interpretations of quotes. Conclusions should be supported by other sources including the authors own insight regarding the text. Interpretations excluding the expressed intention of the author when available are merely conjecture.

DumbFarmBoy

brenda1964

wow, I really got under the skins of the nut jobs on here. Must be doing something right, lol.

#1.145

No, Brenda. Not really getting under (at least my skin) skins. It just bothers me that an American, or at least someone who claims to be an American, can be so willfully ignorant and misguided about History and the Constitution. Or the true function of the Government, as created, and limited by that Constitution.

I shake my head and think, "People can NOT be this STUPID". Surely, I think, "They are being facetious, or cynical", but sadly, no they are not. Just as a for instances, did you get the crack about "Black Shirts" or did you have to Goggle it right away? And what is truly pathetic, is that you think (or project) of us as the "Nut Jobs".

You, Pigotry, Sailcat, R.I. Mom, Feisty RH, Dman, Big Jeff, et. al. of like mind all LOVE Obama do you not? It is a purely emotional attraction. Have you ever paid any attention (obviously not since did not know what a Brown Shirt was) to the History Channel. The Discovery Channel? Next time, pay attention to shows like "Hitler- The Rise to Power" "Hitler-the Fatal Attraction", Hitler had the same mesmerizing grip on the German people and they showed him the same adoration that you people show Obama. Can't happen here, right? How many Germans thought the same thing, "This is 1938, not the middle ages, we have laws..." Yep, they HAD laws.

And remember I am comparing Hitler to Obama, I am not equating the two. (something you liberals really seem to have slim grasp on)

Speak of the devil, here is one of them now, lol. Poor fellow just can't handle the fact that President Obama won and his pick helped him win. LOL, you are your own worst enemy being for racism, bigotry, hatred for your fellow man, and butting into women's business. Stay out of my vagina, get one of your own. Oops wait, sounds like you have already done that.

Back in the 60s, people like George Wallace, Bull Conner rand Sherriff Jim Clark, the very people who took the most radical stand against civil rights, probably did more to assure the passage of the 1964 Civil Right Bill than any pro civil rights people ever did. And today, he person doing more to assure we have tighter gun regulations in this nation is none other than Wayne LaPierre.

To all that want absolutely no gun law changes...

So lets forget what the President and the NRA say... take the politics out of it completely. Let's take the non-starting attempts at historical and constitutional context out of the equation since they cannot be proved and they have so little current relevance. Pretend, for just one moment, that Obama's not after all your (and my) guns or intends to overtake our local governments with lethal federal armed forces... so we may get a straight and logical answer. Instead, lets just look at facts and logic... in fact, let's start with this one:

Please tell us why you want/need an AR-15 versus a standard hand gun or rifle and, while you're at it, explain to us why your want/need is more important than removing AR-15's from those that get so bold and brazen when they put one in their hands so as to kill innocent people.

Please tell us why you want/need a 31 round clip instead of a 10 round clip... again, please explain why your want/need is greater than the dangers they present to society.

And, lastly, please explain to me why the "line" between legal and illegal has to be this side of an AR-15 versus a 50 caliber machine gun or RPG or hand grenade? I seriously don't understand why you want anything called "Assault" to be legal and in the hands of your angry neighbor or the guy that thinks you just cut him off.

Keep in mind that I have guns... I shoot guns... I am fanatical about gun safety and keeping them out of untrained and irresponsible hands. Yet, I cannot get past the above questions. I cannot justify an AR-15 or an AK-47 for the sake of entertainment. They're a blast to shoot! They make one feel all powerful. The make your heart pump harder and faster. Ahhhh... the adrenalin! But for those very reasons, they should be banned. They embolden the likes of you and me. And they will embolden the wrong people just as much.

Crickets

LMarcT

The look of the guns have no bearing on the issue. My LAR 8 military style rifle shoots the exact same bullets as my brothers .308 regular style rifle. The issue that would need to be addressed is magazine size. An AR-15 or AK-47 would both be fine to own with smaller magazines. Please explain why you think that wouldn't be fine.

LMarc, you ask why you need anything named "assault". Thats the media making up the name "assault" to apply to certain weapons. It would mean different things to different people.

The main thing about your question is one word you use ....need. The only thing we need is food, water and shelter. And maybe M & M's :-) Now who is going to start determining who needs what? Do we want the State to determine what our needs are? You don't need a new car, you don't need a cell phone, you don't need a television, you don't need an AR15, you don't need a bottle of Crown Royal.

Unfortunately irrational/unstable people are a part of living in a free society. You can't legislate behavior. People can build guns and build bombs and a law won't deter the criminal mind.

An AR 15 isn't that much different than any other rifle. One can fairly easily make a home-made clip to hold whatever ammount of ammo one wants. I have an AR 15 and have hunted with it. The rounds in my 30-06 are more damaging should they be banned too?

As far as clip size, changing a clip out can be done very rapidly. Won't hardly make a difference if someone is intent on doing violent acts. I sympothise with the desire to lessen harm from certain individuals, but trying to do that with what i hear is trying to legislate behavior. And that is one tough road my friend as law breakers don't care.

Mary911256

Dumb Farm Boy... respectfully you used exerpts from a book written by President Obama to support your point. I believe you might recall from your college days that text/writings often have solicited differences of interpretations. Your choice of excerpts from President Barack Obama's book "Dreams from My Father," suggested intention or meaning that is not shared. Your comment...

#1.159

Mary, good comment. And you back it up. I can respect that. And I appreciate that you notice the quotes were taken out of context. (after all, it is really very difficult to get the full context unless one quotes the whole document)

However, you seem to have done the same with me. Taking one segment of my argument, showing some probable cause or "reasonable doubt" in an effort to invalidate the whole argument.

I did, "Consider the era and cultural attitudes are significant influences during this period." did I not when I pointed out I too was in college at the time. This was not the 60's, it was the mid 80's. And there were many black students at my college, the ones I interacted with seemed "comfortable" in their skins, so to speak. We had not racial strife, that I recall. We were all just students trying to get through Calc, Physics and Chem classes.

I agree "writings often have solicited differences of interpretations." Especially when one is not using a "critical thinking" approach to the topic. Let us look at "I...felt betrayed." Of Onyango he says, "I had imagined him an independent man," Why would Obama feel betrayed, by a man he never knew? Why had he imagined him as he did? Was it something his mother had said about him? An impression left by Franz Fanon? If he was confused about his race, why was he seeking out "Marxist" Professors? If race was not an issue, then why did he use the pejorative "white rule" instead of British Rule?

Maybe I am being a bit over reactive. But when one is communicating through the written word, the choice of words is critical. I know I am not very good at it. Which is why I am an Engineer and not a writer. But I learned a long time ago, after reading the letters my grandparents wrote to each other and to others, words of similar meaning still add a different flavor to the sentiment being conveyed. For instance, how many words describe a "happy" moment? And does not each one carry its own connotation of "happy"? Which is why I try to pay attention to the words used.

"Simply, I'd encourage you to do more research to verify accuracy of interpretations of quotes. Conclusions should be supported by other sources including the authors own insight regarding the text."

I have done other research, into his parents, his mentor, his associates and his actions. Just because I am not an accredited researcher with a PhD, does not mean my conclusions are incorrect. And I am often the first person to point to a book I read years ago, "How to Lie with Statistics", when people post statistics to validate an argument. You can believe me or don't. If you don't, then prove me wrong, or at least, do your own research to PROVE, you are correct, to yourself.

brenda1964

Speak of the devil, here is one of them now, lol. Poor fellow just can't handle the fact that President Obama won and his pick helped him win. LOL, you are your own worst enemy being for racism, bigotry, hatred for your fellow man, and butting into women's business. Stay out of my vagina, get one of your own. Oops wait, sounds like you have already done that.
#1.160

OOH, ow, I am stinging all over. boy you really beat me up with that one.

"butting into women's business" what does this have to do with anything?

And trust me, the last place I would want to dig into is your vagina. I have had enough of digging into dark smelly holes. I had to replace the sewer line to my house recently.

LMarcT

To all that want absolutely no gun law changes...

So lets forget what the President and the NRA say... take the politics out of it completely. Let's take the non-starting attempts at historical and constitutional context out of the equation since they cannot be proved and they have so little current relevance. Pretend, for just one moment, that Obama's not after all your (and my) guns or intends to overtake our local governments with lethal federal armed forces... so we may get a straight and logical answer. Instead, lets just look at facts and logic... in fact, let's start with this one:

Please tell us why you want/need an AR-15 versus a standard hand gun or rifle and, while you're at it, explain to us why your want/need is more important than removing AR-15's from those that get so bold and brazen when they put one in their hands so as to kill innocent people.

Please tell us why you want/need a 31 round clip instead of a 10 round clip... again, please explain why your want/need is greater than the dangers they present to society.

And, lastly, please explain to me why the "line" between legal and illegal has to be this side of an AR-15 versus a 50 caliber machine gun or RPG or hand grenade? I seriously don't understand why you want anything called "Assault" to be legal and in the hands of your angry neighbor or the guy that thinks you just cut him off.

Keep in mind that I have guns... I shoot guns... I am fanatical about gun safety and keeping them out of untrained and irresponsible hands. Yet, I cannot get past the above questions. I cannot justify an AR-15 or an AK-47 for the sake of entertainment. They're a blast to shoot! They make one feel all powerful. The make your heart pump harder and faster. Ahhhh... the adrenalin! But for those very reasons, they should be banned. They embolden the likes of you and me. And they will embolden the wrong people just as much.

#1.162

Why do I need an “Assault Style Rifle”?

Can you tell me when the end of civilization will be? When the solar flare will strike? Youtube "Doomsday Preppers" I am not that paranoid, but I do keep a 3 day supply of water, food and clothing (in case a tornado wipes out my neighborhood). My guns are for putting deer meat in the freezer, and stress relief. (while you on Youtube, "Exploding Pumpkins") But seriously, do you know when the NEXT meteor is going to hit? While never a Boy Scout I believe their motto, “Always be prepared”. I am not going to wait for FEMA to show up. (They have such a wonderful track record)

Evidently you are not much of a gun efficiendo. The AR platform is a wonderful hunting rifle system. I have one AR lower with .243 Win. SSM for prairie dog(heavy barrel bench gun), and I was in the process of getting a 6.8mm (light barrel) for deer, .50 Beowolf for wild hogs and .223 for coyotes and just plinking. One firearm, 4 useful guns. It was cheaper to go this route until the liberals got their panties in a bunch.

The AR platform is completely modular. Push out two pins and the “Upper” receiver comes right off. Uppers are available (or they were) in a multitude of cartridges of small, medium and large calibers for a variety of purposes, from home defense, to hunting, to competition shooting, etc.

Nor can you, "take the non-starting attempts at historical and constitutional context out of the equation since they cannot be proved and they have so little current relevance." This statement is just stupid. What do you mean "Little current relevance". Does the first Amendment not cover the digital age? TV, Media, Movies, or Porn? How then can the 2nd Amendment not cover modern Arms? And just what exactly about "historical and constitutional context", can not be PROVED? Are you one of those idiots who believe our Rights are derived from the Constitution?

As for the last part of your comment, I will bite my tongue, and ask one simple question. "Why, if you are so concerned about gun safety, are you going after the one group of guns, that are used in the least numbers of gun crime?"

“To paraphrase Chairman Mao: Freedom and Oppression are dispensed from the END of a gun. Which END are you on?” Robert Reedy 2008

"The intelligence of a people is inversely proportional to the size of city and the length of time spent there in". Robert Reedy 1980

LIKE HELL THEY WOULD civilians do not need that sort of rifle hell civilians shouldnt have anything other than single shot weapons that don't have mags and each bullet needs to be reloaded. I HATE GUNS. I hate most hunters especially sports hunters. Let's hunt you for sport shall we? Only hunters who eat everything are worth respecting all others especially sport ones need to be shot. As does anyone who advocates bringing down the gov.

Tiffany1

LIKE HELL THEY WOULD civilians do not need that sort of rifle hell civilians shouldn't have anything other than single shot weapons that don't have mags and each bullet needs to be reloaded. I HATE GUNS. I hate most hunters especially sports hunters. Let's hunt you for sport shall we? Only hunters who eat everything are worth respecting all others especially sport ones need to be shot. As does anyone who advocates bringing down the gov.

#1.169

I have no idea who you are directing this comment at, but I will say you are entitled to your opinion, as narrow minded as it appears to be. And judging by the context of that opinion, I would say it was formed in the sterile, sanitized, vacuum of a rather large urban setting, but I may be wrong.

And since I have no idea of what you hold dear and important to you, I can only say, "Well, since I have no need for 'what ever widget' (something you hold dear and important), then no one else needs that widget either." And since you seem to have very little knowledge of what is needed, to hunt, or control wild populations, or anything else for that matter, I would suggest you educate yourself on the history of the founding of this country, the writing of the Constitution, wild life control or control of invasive species, such as wild hogs, snakes, etc, before you post any more ignorant opinions.

And the last time I checked, at least to this point, none of my cohorts are, at this moment, advocating bringing down (by means of force) the Government, i.e. this Administration. However, as stated in the Declaration of Independence, we still reserve the Right to do so, at any point in the Future.

How would you like it if I came into your world, and started dictating what you needed, or didn't need to survive in your world? Perhaps you don't after all, need the freedom of Speech or of Publication(the Press).

But first and foremost, you need to get a handle on the Constitution, and what it really means, and what it really does, and what it really stands for.

LMarcT

Crickets

#1.168

Yeah, Ditto, except I have waited about 19 hours, instead of 30 minutes.

Still waiting, Crickets are still chirping.

Ideological Freedom and Liberty

Once again DumbFarmBoy........You seem to be the most Educated on the postings.....

........Do your Research People and Ignorance may go away? .............Did you know that our Existing GUN Laws are identical to Nazi Germany's under Hitler????.................Wake up America!!!!...............Knowledge is Power!!!............ Join the Class Action.

#1.158

Thank You again. and good comment your self.

keep up the good fight.

NRA says-"How to help your kids with Trauma", Stick Guns in their Schools !!!

Why do anti-gun nuts always start with " I support the 2nd amendment ".

'comprehensive database for background checks and a carve-out for HIPAA regs so that people diagnosed or being treated for serious mental health issues cannot own/buy a firearm' ....

Several problems with that. First, an integrated database, with local, state, and federal data + health care records [ involuntary mental hospitalization ] instantly available to law enforcement [ or gun store ] doesn't exist, nor is likely to any time in the near future. Government data bases are firmly stuck in the electronic dark ages. Perhaps you caught the recent news story of the $ 1B that the Air Force pissed away, attempting to consolidate their 245 data bases into an integral platform ? Similar stories come up from time to time. Heck, the IRS computers in San Francisco don't ' talk ' to the IRS computers in San Diego, as I personally found out.

Second, and FAR more importantly, it is only-too-clear that the current Administration is pushing gun checks / registration as a prelude to confiscation, so any reason to acquiesce is wildly inadvisable.

'mental health issues which are at the core' Oh, Please ! We have always had guns, and have always had crazy people.

Actually as a kid I would have felt safer if a teacher or a guard was armed at school. It is just common sense. I feel pretty darn safe in a bank, or a police station.

Perhaps you should read the recent TIME magazine article on how the human brains works when confronted with a life threatening situation such as being in a gun fight.

As per numerous research studies cited therein, only the highly trained special forces and seals, marines etc can react the proper way when bullets are flying and it's only because their brain shuts down and their training kicks in. Not even COPS have that kind of training.

Those of you who are advocating arming sundry teachers and janitors with guns have no idea what that means. There is no way any civilian can ever react effectively in a sandy hook like situation.

What is truly in dire need of adjustment is the way we deal with the mental health of our citizens and we should start with LaPierre and the @holes that support his charade parade.

GungaDin;

Fortunately, there are thousands of us former Special forces troops living among you. Feels safer now? Oh wait, that really doesn't help you does it? Your still spineless and expect others to defend your life an property. Pity, Americans have been programmed to be weak kneed, slack jawed, government dependent drones. Of course our government will be doing it's best to vilify all us former soldiers as insurgents, or subversives. Because they fear us. We might train others, we might expose their great socialist secrets.

But then again, you spout leftist propaganda, read the papers, everyday citizens engage in defensive guns fights everyday and win. There are recent instances of civilians coming to the aid of out gun cops. You have to dig to find it as NBC, CBS, CNN, FOX or any of the other "mainstream media" will carry the stories as they go counter to how government wants to portray guns. be a good little sheep. Think only party thoughts. Be a slave. I'll remain free, of mind, body and soul.

seaskip

a far better way is to keep them out?? Worked well before did it not?? you want protection take guns away from the military.

The Nicodemus, you don't have to be Special Forces to defend yourself with a firearm. The following stories all seem to be about a homeowner saving their own life when under attack.

If even one life can be saved... the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

A Sacramento, Calif. homeowner recently defended not only himself, but several children that were having a sleepover at his house, when three men attempted to break into his home.
http://www.examiner.com/article/armed-homeowner-shoots-intruders-while-children-have-sleepover

Sunday, Feb. 10, in the early hours of the morning, a young man and his wife awoke to the sounds of an intruder breaking into their home in Chehalis, Washington. The homeowner first called 911, and then armed himself with a pistol while waiting for the police to arrive. The intruder, who later admitted to police that he was on meth, at some point decided it was not enough to break into the man’s home, but then proceeded to charge at him. The homeowner was then left with the option of either becoming a victim or using his firearm to stop the intruder and protect his family. He chose to protect himself and his family and shot the intruder once.
http://www.examiner.com/article/homeowner-shoots-intruder-while-waiting-for-police-to-arrive

Police say a homeowner shot and killed an armed intruder who tried to break into a third floor apartment in North Dallas Wednesday night.
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Resident-Shoots-Kills-Intruder-186295092.html

A man in his 60's was started from his sleep at approximately 2:15 this morning to find intruders in his home. The homeowner armed himself with his handgun and shot at the intruder he saw. Wounded, the intruder turn and fled the scene. The homeowner then saw a second intruder in the doorway to the bedroom and shot at him before fleeing the house to call for help.
http://www.easybakegunclub.com/news/1154/Homeowner-shoots-2-intruders,-1-dead,-1-wounded-%28C.html#.UR2jhGfNlcs

Please excuse the formatting if it doesn't come out well, I'm not very versed on this.

Speakthetruth... what a joke you are. You don't speak anything but paranoid, cowardly BS. Otherwise you wouldn't have a problem with registration and background checks. Thankfully sad sack chickenchits like yourself are in the minority. The rest of this country wants some regulations placed on firearm ownership

Do you all want to know how unbelievably insane this gun/violence issue has gotten? There was a 10 school lockdown in Meridian, ID this morning. It was reported that a man or student, was walking down the hall, with a 2 bladed axe. SWAT teams in full gear going through classrooms. It was later found that the reported assault weapon was a folding camp shovel. OMG!!! I'm trying so freaking hard not to fall off this chair from a laughing fit. This is IDAHO people! Are you freaking kidding me? An adult, teenager, middle school child or ANY child (excepting toddlers under 3 years for EPA, SCA, FDA, or whatever A that keeps us all safe) for that matter can not distinguish a camp shovel from an axe??? It is over. truly over. lmao

Boozer-1248521

Obama is a congenital liar and a rotten son of a Bit*h.

Boozer, stop it, you're talking out your ass again and lying!!!

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.. The anti gun propaganda is working so well these paranoid frieks are seeing evil gun toting zombies..

If they just take a little bit at a time and say it is for our safety then it must be OK right?? The slick Communist agenda and all the willing followers.. Obama gives guns to the Mexican drug cartels and when caught takes Executive privilege and Congress does nothing?? Obama violates the Constitution and appoints people to leadership roles without approval of Congress and Congress does nothing?? Obama hands out explosives and man portable antiaircraft missiles to Islamic revolutionaries and some of these weapons show up on a boat trying to get into Yemen?? Obama's propaganda machine inflates the anti gun hysteria and ignores that his people in the cities are causing most of the firearm homicides.. False statistics to indoctrinate the foolish followers and pulling heart strings by using white children while black on black crime soars and more black children are killed from gang violence each day then all the people at that school.. One way or another the slide towards Communism will either continue or stop with a resurgence in Constitutional values.. If it continues we will see more liberties being challenged and removed until unrest breaks out or the Constitution is destroyed.. A big depression will accelerate the process, since our government does not trust half the population I see their illegal police force Homeland Security coming into play..

Why do anti-gun nuts always start with " I support the 2nd amendment ".

Why do pro-gun nuts always say "the 2nd Amendment is at stake" when neither Obama nor anyone else in his administration has ever uttered one word about taking guns away from everyone???

MSNBCMFE

"Uh, cheetah, like THAT makes sense.

Get in the game, Rightie. You're sounding like a fool."

Are you that dense? Newtown was the shooting. Sandy Crack was the storm. I can't believe you found 15 chumps who agree with you.

No one blinder that he who will not see. The second amendment was here first, don't like it: YOU LEAVE>

Why should I leave? I'm a law obiding citizen...here's an idea, why don't you leave???

Second, and FAR more importantly, it is only-too-clear that the current Administration is pushing gun checks / registration as a prelude to confiscation, so any reason to acquiesce is wildly inadvisable.

Geez...here's a prime example of trying to spread the absolute falsehood that Obama is going to take your guns. Please, find me a quote where Obama or anyone in his administration says they're going to take your guns. You can't do it, because it's never happened!

Inaccurate "quotes" from Fox News don't count...

Dav1bg

All these people come to our country because of the opportunity and standard of living, then want to change the laws that created these wonderful things. You want communism, no guns, Islam, you are FREE to go to countries that have these things, don't come here to change my country to be like the one you came from. Piss off! Go back to Africa Obummer, CHANGE THEM>

I guess you're a Native American? But even Native Americans came from somewhere else. The Constitution does NOT give you an absolute right to any weapon you desire. You cannot carry around a hand grenade... or are you for that one too? No one wants to change the country... they just want you to keep your rights without destroying society... THAT is supported by the Constitution and our governmental structure.

And by the way, our great country allows the believing in and speaking for communism or any other form of government. Our great country allows and even encourages all religions, including Islam. And, in fact, our great country allows us to elect anyone we choose, of any race or national origin or religion, and to openly believe in, speak of, push for, demonstrate for, and legislate changes we think necessary to protect our society from the evils of violence and anarchy... and if you don't like it, it's your right to say so... or leave... your choice.

Bob,

What are you talking about? There are a few that express sympathy for the guy over social media and then you chastise EVERYONE from the Democratic Party for it?!?

Yeah, that's not completely stupid. (sarcasm)

Wayne LaPierre is the perfect person to be the head of an organization that wants everybody to own something that was invented to kill him. Beecause we should be armed against people like him.

@ Doctor Logic - Ok, Don't blame the majority for the few.. I can buy that. So why don't you you have the grace to apply that the majority of gun owners shouldn't be tarred with the same stick as a felon using a gun?

I just saw someone refer to him as Way LaPierre-anoid.

Jim....

So why don't you you have the grace to apply that the majority of gun owners shouldn't be tarred with the same stick as a felon using a gun?

HOW are the 'majority of gun owners' being 'tarred'? As a matter of fact, the majority of gun owners agree with President Obama's proposals.

DoctorLogic

Jim....

So why don't you you have the grace to apply that the majority of gun owners shouldn't be tarred with the same stick as a felon using a gun?

HOW are the 'majority of gun owners' being 'tarred'? As a matter of fact, the majority of gun owners agree with President Obama's proposals.

DL - Even though I totally disagree with you, you were doing well through your posts until - "As a matter of fact, the majority of gun owners agree with President Obama's proposals."

You do know that your statement is total BS? Ah, maybe you meant your statement as a joke.

Hey Doc! An "oh, by the way... If so many gun owners agreed with Obama - as you say - then who are all the people buying guns and ammo that have cleaned out the stores? Certainly not the evil businesses buying their own products!

Hey clown show.....

Better check your sources:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/feb/13/barack-obama/president-barack-obama-says-overwhelming-majority-/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-says-hell-offer-plans-to-stem-gun-violence-this-week/2013/01/14/b7ad8ea8-5e6c-11e2-90a0-73c8343c6d61_story.html

There are strong majorities on many of the proposals Obama is putting forth. Yeah, maybe not you and your circle-**** of buddies but believe it or not....there are other people that actually have wetware between their ears outside your little world.

You can't be serious!

Spread the lie commie!

Oh yeah, you're ugly....

There's some sterling debate for you!

I'm pro-2nd amendment, and I support Obama's proposals on gun control about 99%

LaPierre on the other hand, for someone who claims to be a supporter of the 2nd amendment and constitution seemed to attempt to tread mightily over the 1st amendment when he tried to place blame on violence in media and video games for the actions of mentally ill and criminal individuals.

LaPierre is the loser, he is not a good representative of most gun owners, he's a sycophantic loser that is trying to fight anything and everything that might even appear to be a roadblock to his gun-manufacturers lobby.

Slippery-slope my ***, that argument could be applied to anything. There's nothing wrong with having a comprehensive database for background checks and a carve-out for HIPAA regs so that people diagnosed or being treated for serious mental health issues cannot own/buy a firearm. Regulating private sales and comprehensive laws allowing tracking of straw buyers is also very important because those are both gaping loopholes that allow a lot of felons to acquire firearms and leave straw buyers largely immune to litigation, or only facing very minor penalties since due-diligence was minimal for the transactions.

Jim Burrill

Hey Doc! An "oh, by the way... If so many gun owners agreed with Obama - as you say - then who are all the people buying guns and ammo that have cleaned out the stores? Certainly not the evil businesses buying their own products!

Good question. But I don't think the answer is going to support your argument you're alluding to.

There are actually fewer gun owners over all in the US, it's just that on a per-capita basis for gun-ownership, those people simply own more guns.

Guys ...you do know the difference between commandments (10) and amendments right ?

Amendments are changes written into the constitution by democratically elected representatives of the people.

You do realize that amendments can be amended themselves right ? They are not god's word. They were good for 100 years ago and now we may decide thatthey are no longer necessary - so they will be amended.

So first of all get off this silly wagon of amendments somehow being so sacrosanct that they can't ever ever be changed.

Secondly - The wording "well regulated" in the amendment leaves plenty of room for the federal government to enact rules laws and statuettes curtailing your rights as they stand now.

So STFU and give a logical counterpoint if you have any. Simply going nutso saying oh the 2nd amendment cannot be taken away is dumb !!!

GungaDin;

So counting all federal, State, County, City and D.C. gun control and regulation laws, the current and largely unenforced 27,738 is not enough? How many more then, do you suppose it will take to achieve your socialist dream? Bans do nothing, look at the last one, honestly,all it did was drive up the price of these non assault rifles. They did not go away, they did not magically disappear. So what's different today? They will all remain in the public, and a few will find there way into the hands of criminals.

Why are you not this upset over the guns flooding in from Mexico? The cartels see a profit, ergo, they are smuggling them in along with the drugs, people and other contraband. Haven't heard about that either? What a surprise. More of that transparency we keep hearing about, right? Oh and wher eis your outrage at the Prez being the number one arms dealer in the world? The pres approves and ships more guns around the world in a month than all the gun store do in two years. Let alone the helicopters, fighter planes, tanks, bombs, missiles, and land mines. So who's the monster really? How do you think these factions get their weapons,, Osmosis? The government profits from all the warfare around the war, even those we are not directly involved in. I defy you to show me in the Constitution where the government i.e the president, is granted power to be the largest arms dealer in the world.

So instead of enforcing the current 27,738 gun laws and enforcing USC 1300 through1399 and sub chapters dealing with border enforcement and immigration, you would paint all with a broad brush and pass more laws, is that it? You would treat all those who have done nothing wrong as you would any common criminal, right? How every even handed and fair of you. Sounds like something right out of the Stalinist play book. You could ask any of the millions he had killed but, they can't explain it, their dead.

DoctorLogic

is that an Obama thing or just a lefty thing bout racism??

http://shiftfrequency.com/dhs-insider-obamas-cyber-warriors-preparing-for-collapse/

this is for the idiot mannbc whatever the hell he is, and i don't believe a thing nbc, cbs, or any other obama loving news station said, fox got a mouth fill from obama about telling the truth about one father from sandy hook school saying he isn't blaming guns and to leave the rights alone, it's mental health that needs addressing. so believe who you want. i want the truth.

I'll keep my guns thank you, 2nd Amendment or not, this is obama's little army, for now until they wake up, ice already did wake up and they are sueing the government as they can not do their job effectively because obama wants all mexicans, or Taliban to come in from the mexican border, wakeup people.remember a few month's ago when Biden said that the Taliban are his and obama's friends. you people miss alot don't you. now click on that web page and read a little you will learn why obama wants your guns.

"As a matter of fact, the majority of gun owners agree with President Obama's proposals..." ah... no.

And there are no facts to back that up. An informal call on the phone by a polling group does not make ANYTHING true. MOST gun owners are demanding that BHO enforce the lawas on the books. MOST gun oweners will not give up their guns when BHO tries to take them. MOST gun oweners are law abiding citizens that these new laws will hinder, not help.

MOST people in the United States that have a job, pay thier fair share, and want a bright future for their children did NOT vote for BHO... the 47%'ers and those lost in the cloud tree huggers made that possible. I doubt if ANY of those 47% could hold down a job, they'd vote for someone that's agenda is to remove their right to freedom. Damn, that's right, if they could hold down a job, they wouldn't be in that 47%.... my bad...

BOTH Obama & Biden have admitted that gun control WILL NOT stop the next school shootings..... but let's not do anything to PROTECT the schools.... lets not do anything to STOP mental patients from owning firearms.... lets ATTACK the ownership of the WEAPON used in LESS THAN TWO PERCENT of the criminal acts in the US..... lets ATTACK the rights of MILLIONS of law-abiding Americans... lets CRIMINALIZE the ownership of weapons by MILLIONS of Americans that have NEVER violated any current law, NEVER been used in any type of crime, NEVER murdered anyone.... lets not do ANTYHING that would effect the criminal element in the United States in any manner....

That is the "leadership" being brought to you by the Obama administration... the Community Organizer

Gunga Din. No, You're right, the amendments CAN be changed! But where do you want to stop? With YOUR fave amendment? My guess would be the first, concerning free speech! Once they all start legislasting changes, where will it all stop? And PLEASE don't tell me with votes, we all saw how well THAT worked last November!

DoctorLogic

Wayne LaPierre is a genuine crazy person. He is a perfect, prime example of someone who should NOT own a gun. His latest manifesto that said people needed guns to deal with all the "Latin gangs" and mayhem and looters after Hurricane Sandy is nothing short of insane.

If ANYONE stands by this clown any longer...they are a racist lunatic just like he is.

Okay "Doctor Logic", let's do a real logic lesson:

Wayne LaPierre is a genuine crazy person.

That's an informal logical fallacy...ad hominem. You attacked him, not his points of debate.

He is a perfect, prime example of someone who should NOT own a gun.

Really? What violent crime has he ever commited? NONE. So by your logic, anyone who disagrees with you on the gun issue, but isn't violent, should not own guns.

His latest manifesto that said people needed guns to deal with all the "Latin gangs" and mayhem and looters after Hurricane Sandy is nothing short of insane.

That doesn't meet the definition of insanity. It may demonstrate a lack of information (Sandy wasn't as disruptive to civilization as Katrina), a case of misspeaking (he may have meant Katrina, but I doubt it), and a tad of racism (gangs are of all colors)...but none of that is the definition of insanity. BTW, guns are needed to deal with mayhem and looters, and have been used to do so while saving lives and property in more than one riot in America.

You are no master of logic. Then again, I've never met a statist who is. Try studying philosophy, and especially logic, more deeply.

Listen up i am a democrat and i own guns that is my constitutional right and i passed the background check and i will not give up my right to defend myself no matter who says so. "shall not not be infringed upon " means just that. periodl.

GungaDin - excellent point! "Ammendments" by definition means they were added in as a change, because times change, and our Constitution needs to keep up...lest it becomes obsolete altogher. Remember slavery? I, for one, am glad that there is a mechanism to update the Constitution as times dictate. Maybe it's time for more change?

Steve-446003 - it would be foolish for anyone to say that tighter regulations will stop the next school shooting. However, there is every reason to expect that, over time, the President's recommendations will improve gun safety and reduce gun crime. I am happy to live with the added restrictions if it means my children and their children will inherit a safer, less violent country. A perfect example of this type of change is drunk driving. Rates of death due to drunk driving have been nearly cut in half over the last 20 years, thanks to stricter regulations: increasing the drinking age, lowering the legal limit, stiffer penalties, social stigmatization of irresponsible drunks who drive, etc. Americans need to get over the idea of any quick fix to such a complex problem. We may live in an age of "instang gratification", but it's time for a reality check, people. Reasonable changes can be expected to have reasonable results over time. If you want certainty, then here you go: if you do nothing, nothing will change.

Move to China, live by their constitution! I will live by the one here in the USA!! Sorry

Another gun nut hiding behind the Constitution. Watch out! There's Obama, and he's going to take away your guns! Run away!

You don't know the first thing about China, except what you saw in some old propaganda films from the '50s:

http://www.amazon.com/Anti-Communist-Propaganda-1950s-DVD-Collection/dp/B004LYBTGA

Obviously you're not aware that on the same day as the Sandy Hook massacre a guy in China entered a school in a similar fashion as Adam Lanza, but because of stricter gun laws there he was armed only with a knife. He slashed 23 kids, but no one -- no one -- was killed. And clowns like you try to invoke the Constitution to defend your "position".

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/24/world/asia/china-school-knife-attack

In this case, people like you are the problem, not the solution...

Opinions are like azz holes-- everyone has one. Wayne Whatever has his own opinion of the 2nd Amendment-- probably differs from others opinions of the 2nd Amendment. His brain (?) probably understands it as he wants to understand it. Just like selective amnesia-- he has it when he deems it necessary to have it.

He's doing what the bosses on the board tell him to do. Gotta scare the knuckle-draggers into buying more of the guns they manufacture.

And oddly enough that seems to be the case...this is a form of advertising I guess.

The vast majority of people buying guns today are getting older and older, and the market is actually shrinking. Very few young people buy firearms, and although sales have spiked in recent years, it's not from an expanding market, but that the people that currently own/buy firearms are buying significantly more of them.

It reminds me of the failing business model that was Cadillac and now currently Buick, Oldsmobile and Lincoln

There was a stalwart group of individuals that loved those brands, but the producers never bothered to win over younger generations, so their market basically has aged and dwindled, and the sales followed suit (with the Escalade being the saving grace that brought Cadillac back to life in the '90s).

Guns seem to be following suit.

Obama, Feinstein, and Bloomberg Have sold more guns, ammo, and magazines Than anybody else in America

'His lunatic ravings will destroy the NRA.' Doesn't seem like it. Reportedly, guns are flying off the shelves, and the NRA membership is swelling..... BTW, I am an NRA Life Member, who is increasingly proud of the NRA.

I liked what he had to say. If it weren't for the NRA, just who would defend our Second Amendment right? Or do you think that the right to bear arms shouldn't be a right?

Keep Dreaming

You people badmouthing the NRA do not know what you are talking about. you are spreading mostly lies. Don't worry i don't respond to ignorance.

LaPierre needs to sit on the muzzle of an AK15 with the safety off and trust his luck that he doesn't fart.

xlanlfc

I liked what he had to say. If it weren't for the NRA, just who would defend our Second Amendment right? Or do you think that the right to bear arms shouldn't be a right?

Um, the President and the Supreme Court would!! Have you even listened to him, or just what the conservative pundits tell you he said? President Obama has said repeatedly that he fully supports the second ammendment! Stop spreading lies! The NRA is heightening the hysteria to increase gun sales...it's all about the money. Nobody is going to take away your gun or your right to own one.

If you're so worried about your Constitutional rights, you should read the Patriot Act...while you busy worrying about your 2nd ammendment rights, the rest of your rights are being eroded without notice!

A clump of cells in a uterus isn't an "unborn child" any more than a silkworm is an "unmade sweater."

Stop comparing the deaths of actual, living, breathing, walking human beings to a legal medical procedure.

The truth was that looting was minimal in the areas affected in Brooklyn and Queens. I live in Brooklyn, and know a lot of people affected by the hurricane. The police were able to keep order very quickly. LaPierre needs to keep basic facts correct if he's going to have a credible platform for his position.

I am against abortion and you being able to own an arsenal good day.

David, if you devoted half as much time and energy to improving the lives of the children already born as you do to aborted fetuses, people might think that you had a point. As usual, you just take the easy way out, attack women and their legal right to a safe medical procedure.

When a wife says she's GOING to have a baby it's not a baby yet, it's something that can become a baby but not yet not even close.

I have a Son that was born with congenital heart failure. He received a Font when he was 2 weeks old, a Glen when he was a year and a half old, a Fontan when he was three years old.

He is now 18 Years old and will be graduating high school this year. I'm sorry if I didn't have the time and resources to go on a Save the Children World Tour to meet your expectations.

What a bunch of morons. Of course a fetus is a baby. Use the same conditions that apply when they declare you dead...either brain activity or heart activity. When a fetus shows heart activity it's officially alive, just as when a person's heart activity (or brain) stops, he ISN'T alive. Get it? Beating heart= alive, NON-beating heart= dead.

Also, good to see all the Socialists and Obama lovers out in force trying to destroy the constitution.

David, we morn for all the litte swimmers you've put to death ejaculating into a dirty sock over your lifetime.

Intelligent reply Virgil. Make's the world wish that the sperm that made you had gone into a dirty sock. Lucky you, unlucky Us!

@ Cameron

A clump of cells in a uterus isn't an "unborn child" any more than a silkworm is an "unmade sweater."

@ cgtrav

When a wife says she's GOING to have a baby it's not a baby yet, it's something that can become a baby but not yet not even close.

That's strange. Then why is it that if a pregnant woman is murdered the accused murderer is usually charged with 2 homicides, the murder of the mother-to-be & the murder of the unborn child?

So let me see if I have this correct.

1. When it comes to abortion it is just a clump of cells but it isn't an unborn child/baby

2. If the pregnant mother-to-be is murdered then it is a living baby/child/person

Yeah, you guys make perfect sense.

Btw, why do women get all worked about having a miscarriage? After all, according to you two it is just a clump of cells. So what is the big deal?

David, stay on topic. M'kay? The topic is a paranoid pissant tyrant wanna-be who is trying to extrapolate REASONABLE regulations (you know a similar word precedes the word "Militia" and the whole idea of not keeping weapons TO FIGHT FOR YOUR COUNTRY away from the people who will be called up to FIGHT FOR THEIR COUNTRY) into "OMG - THEY'RE COMING FOR ALL OF OUR GUNS".

David, when you grow a uterus and can carry a fetus to term, THEN I will give you a vote on women's reproductive health and choices. Unless you want me to start a grassroots effort to MANDATE vasectomies on pro-birth man? If you want to take away the choice of women you don't know, then we get to take away the choice of men WE don't know in terms of YOUR reproduction, m'kay?

Oh Please! Everybody knows Murdered unborn children can't even defend themselves in the womb, much less vote!

Cat: I like the way you think! I think if all these men who want to control women's reproductive rights (as well as the rest of their bodies) were to be faced with the same kind of "legally" mandated controls of their bodies (vasectomies, circumcision - since studies show a circumcised male is less likely to transmit HIV), there would be rioting in the streets (with guns, I suspect). Maybe it's time for women to take to the streets (and the election booths) to protect their fundamental rights to control their own bodies as men have over their own bodies (since I can't think of any legislation that reduces a man's rights over his own body. When was the last time you heard a deadbeat dad told that he can either pay up the back child support or be forced to undergo a vasectomy or castration!).

David Noah and David G,

You have to understand the liberal twisted thinking. They spin to justify killing when they want to kill, since they place themselves in the position of GOD deciding which child should live and which should die but oh, the ones they allow to live they use as an excuse to try to advance thier utopia fantasy of tyrany here in America. Even Putin told them they are idiots since every try at Socialism has failed. They still want everyone to have everything even if there aren't enough workers to steal from to pay for it. Don't try to use logic on them, you can't best a fool.

A fetus is not a life, but a gun kills all by itself. That just does not make it through a filter of common sense.

David, when you grow a uterus and can carry a fetus to term, THEN I will give you a vote on women's reproductive health and choices.

Tell us how a Woman can get pregnant without a mans sperm?

That's the problem with the left. They want Abortion to be strictly a Womens issue so they can use it in there "War on Women" rhetoric. Those millions of abortions that are performed each year are because a man was just as irresponsible as a woman.

Every month when 114,000 abortions are performed its because 114,000 females and 114,000 males were irresponsible.

Lets not Hold men accountable at all a deny they have any culpability or say in the matter even though Men are just as responsible for the abortion rate in the U.S. as Females.

Why isn't there a male birth control pill?

OH that's right its not a male issue right?

Make no Mistake; If Dianne Feinstein and the rest of her Like Minded Comrades could get their way they would take away every gun and leave us defenseless and at the mercy of criminals and the Government.

You are as flippin' looney as LaPierre for God's sake.

What the **** does Obamacare have ANYTHING to do with fictional gun confiscation that is only alive in your brain?

It is painful to read what you've written as you jump from topic to topic without making the slightest connection to the primary idea that you should be talking about. Again, it is as crazy as LaPierre's manifesto today.

David Noah,

Are guns used mostly by bad guys to cause trouble or mostly by good guys to defend against bad guys?

Are you safer with a gun or without a gun? How do you know?

Would most people be safer with a gun than without a gun?

Who would not be safer with a gun?

Machine guns are heavily regulated. Is that a good thing or bad thing? Why?

in a "well regulated" militia

Oh please DoctorLogic, that is the Best you can come up with?

At last put a little thought into your ridicule. After four years of being called a Racist, Bigot, Neadrathal, Religous Zealot, intelectul midget, etc. I would have hoped that your ridicule and insults would have improved at least a little bit.

Or better yet you could try actully disputing what I have said.

When a 130lb Woman is being attacked by a 220lb man intent on raping her why shouldn't she be able to have the best weapon she can get to defend herself with?

Why don't you tell Melinda she didn't need a gun to defend herself and her family...

http://www.examiner.com/article/mom-shoots-intruder-5-times

An Atlanta, GA mom shot an intruder 5 times after he discovered the place where she and her children had been hiding. The woman, who remains unidentified, put her life on the line to protect her twins and her story has made national news. On Jan. 6, FOX 8 reported that a man broke into the woman's house and was shot by the woman when he approached the crawlspace where she and her kids were hiding.

"The alleged burglar, Paul Ali Slater, eventually found the family’s hiding space. The woman fired six shots, five of which struck Slater in the face and neck. The man fled the home and ran to a nearby home," FOX 8 reported. His injuries sound serious but, according to the report, he did not die.

Lou is right. "Well regulated." End of discussion.

What did she shoot him with, a bb gun?