You know it's not in America's best interest when slimeballs like Schumer are involved. And the neocons who go along with this aught to be ashamed of themselves.

Will this open the doors for other criminals to be forgiven for their crimes. Those on the run could possibly be successfully reintegrated into society. Hmmmm

Mike, I'm to the far right on this issue and I generally agree with you. I want to see the federal government PROVE this time, that it has the will to secure the borders (note the use of the plural) before anything at all is done with regard to those who are already here. I also believe that the Republican party has more to lose than to gain by prostituting itself on this issue, so they had better hold fast to the "securing the border" part of the equation. Quite frankly, it makes me wary to see senators McCain and L.Graham representing the Republicans on the committee, even though I generally like them and the job that they do as senators most of the time. However, I just have to ask, what have YOU done to EARN your citizenship? If the guy who picked your lettuce today so much as learned the name of the first US President, it was more than was required of you to be a citizen, unless you are over 57 years old and faced a real draft lottery. Nobody born here since 1955 has had to EARN their citizenship. Hopefully, most of us during our lifetimes will do something to be worthy of it, which (in my opinion) involves something more than lerning 2 send txt mesges n English.

NewStart2012,, Every Senator that votes for this will be out of a job next election.

Bigger_in_Texas,,#1.6, You got the right, the whole thing !

Correction,,#1.6, You got that right, the whole thing !

If they are adamant about forcing this issue , then lets force it . Required registration within 30 days of all illegals . You are then entered into a grace period where you are placed on list for legal citizenship . You have a 5 yr period that you must remain out of any serious trouble & GANG affiliation. After 5 yrs of trouble free residence , you get your papers. You must also not be found guilty of working without taxes or "working undertable" . This will stop the employment of future illegals . Anyone picked up for any reason or entered into any database that cannot prove citizenship CAN BE REFERRED TO INS & if found to be here & not registered or legal , automatic deportation & if you return , youll have work found for you , in a prison . This isnt like in the 60's or 80's or even the 90's . There are real enemies (terrorists) of the USA out there that wish us harm & would love to come across the border or even cartel members that have no reservations about taking a life. YOU WANT TO BECOME AN AMERICAN , show you can be trusted now to do the right thing even if you did come here & stay here illegally , SIGN UP , you take the right step now in signing up , since your first step was wrong , make a right step next. After that 30 day period , here illegally , your gone!!!

Creating a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants already here

Yes by all means let us reward criminal behavior. Ignore all the people who try to do it the right way.

They want to allow more illegal's into the United States if an employer can prove they can't get American's to do the job. Notice they said employer? That means if you can't find one you can call someone's brother/sister/father/uncle/mother/friend or anyone else you want to fill that position from any country you want. There you have it people, you work and live like slaves or you get replaced the next day! Now do you understand why Unions were born?
Also still nothing said about anchor babies?
These people have never been happy with green cards and they never will, they want citizen ship A.S.A.P.
The current system has not stopped illegals from getting jobs what makes the government think this one will?

When was the last time you saw an ad in the paper for employees? Get in line at the local Temp Service behind the illegals.

This is a sell out of values and campaign promises by Arizona Sens. McCain and Flake. Both talked tough on immigration when running for office only to cave in after elected. This will NOT be forgotten. McCain has NEVER done anything for the people of Arizona and now this?

@ Chris from Yucaipa, post 1.10

What the President has created is a steady flow of children being smuggled into this country all with hopes of going to school and becoming American citizens. They have no idea once here who will feed them or where they will sleep. They are sent to live with people they don't know and told they are relatives if anyone asked. This was the case for the 12 year old that was found in the Arizona desert last summer. Lost and no family. What a mess he has created for these children. I fear they are being used as pawns or worse turned into prostitutes. The Mexican government needs to be informed of this and they should be taking these children back to their parents.

@bandit-3097615, post 1.13

Flipper may have crawled back under his rock but his legacy lives on.

The US government is responsible directly for some of the illegal immigrants,by way of student visas, H1B worker visas[ ie., skilled engineers], H-2A and H-2B work visas[ie., sheepherders,seasonal ag workers], TN and TD visas [NAFTA workers from Canada and Mexico] and L-1 visas[ allows intra company transfers]. All these visas allow people to enter our country and are not enforced to insure that they are in compliance with all rules, poor tracking, etc., which allows them to simply disappear into our country due to al lack of followup!They are limited to a certain number for each visa type, but these numbers are distorted as the dependents are add ons to these visas!There are a set number of these visas given out each year, so over the years there are millions given out, which adds to our illegal immigrant issues! They give out these visas to aid business. I am now also reading that they will become a green card holder if they finish school here and that they want to also allow more lower skilled workers into our country. The fact that they want better tracking of visa holders just goes to show you that this is a big failing aspect to our immigration process! I am not against immigration,I just want a system that punishes illegal immigration, and doesn't reward it by giving another AMNESTY! I also hope that the people that are US citizens are the primary concern of our legislators, and that the legislators are not giving away OUR jobs, because big business has lobbied to allow cheaper labor into the country!

Confussed-1578043

@ Chris from Yucaipa, post 1.10

What the President has created is a steady flow of children being smuggled into this country all with hopes of going to school and becoming American citizens

Not true. This policy change only applies to children here who already have illegal immigrant parents in the country and who meet the criteria I listed earlier. Also, a correction to my earlier post, it's not that the child needs to be a model student, they must either be a high school graduate or have obtained a GED before applying for the deferral.

Understand this, these policy changes are almost identical to the ones Republican Mark Rubio has proposed. What Republicans are upset about is the fact that Obama did this via Executive Order and not through Congressional legislation. Republicans want to add a whole bunch of demands to any immigration legislation Congress creates. Obama simply cut out the conditions that the Republicans placed on it in order to pass it. They are free to make those conditions into a separate bill and send it up.

http://immigration.about.com/od/immigrationlawandpolicy/a/Republican-Version-Of-Dream-Act.htm

The President and those senators are too stupid to know how much this change will effect us in the future. This just encourages more illegals who have children, to enter into the country illegally; the illegals will always use their children as an excuse for their behavior.

NO FEDERAL BENEFITS? What about free schooling and free meals for their children? Where does that come into play. Most illegals do receive that regardless because most of the time it is based upon a person's income.

How is this different legislation? Most parents move to the US for the sake of their children having a better life. The only difference is that some parents choose to obey the laws of the US and then there are those who don't. Why encourage those, who do not obey the laws, by gving them ANOTHER path to immigration?

This is what happens when a President, who couldn't even follow the immigration laws when it came to his own family, is writing the laws for everyone else. Such hypocrisy!

No amnesty!!!

This is nothing but a sell out by both parties. One party is selling us out for there rich corporate friends and the other is selling us out for votes to stay in power.

It is time for a 3rd party to emerge with some common sense.

"A path to citizenship for the 11 million illegal immigrants already in this country." This is a big kick in the face to the millions of people and families who took the time and years to legally immigrate to the U.S. So we are going to say to people who have committed a crime to get into the USA that it is okay for them to stay here? What is that going to show to the rest of the world? And, how do we know other crimes and maybe even murders didn't occur for any of these people to get here? They didn't respect our laws enough to come to the U.S. the legal way, why do you think they will respect our laws if we make them citizens?

Blowbama............i am with you 100%

Those that are here will become citizens, receive degrees, become low skilled workers filling vacant job slots, raise children like everyone else and then die eventually to begin a new cycle for generations and centuries in the future. We have enough people you say, we cannot possibly stop more being born in the future the same as stopping those who will die. We have enough people. They said the same 200 years ago.

This is about much more than just amnesty.

This is about gaining millions of extra votes for Democrats. They are doing everything they can to destroy any influence from conservatives. They want to eliminate all opposition to their global Marxist one-world-government (along with the RINO's that support them), and this will ensure that Democrat votes outweigh Republicans forever.

You are watching the nation being conquered by domestic enemies.

I don't understand why the Senate, Congress and the President are trying to push to keep illegals here to do jobs that LEGAL American's need. If the Latino's want to come here they should have to go home and come through Ellis Island like people did years ago! Why is it that priority is given to illegals and not to addressing the issue of the AMERICAN soldiers returning unable to get work and in need of help, for pete's sake Congresspeople, Senator and Barry pull your heads out and take care of our soldiers first not the Latinos just because you figure they are another vote for you. And make them get off of food stamps, if you have not been a LEGAL citizen and taxpayer for at least 5 years you should get NO benefits period and that includes free health care send them home for their health care don't make LEGAL citizens pay for them. Question MSN are you tracking everything as a person now has to sign on each time they turn their computer back on, big brother after the LEGAL citizens that have been here since birth and that is a legal birth 30-50 years ago by American parents?

Do you think if we went to their country, would we be welcome with open arms like they are here in the US?

I think not

If I state what I think I am seeing going on, I would be labeled paranoid and delusional.

And the sell out goes on. How about sending all illegals back and no immigration at all? That would be in the best interest of this country and it's people. However the federal government don't give a damn about the people or this country.

Illegal immigration = cutting in line in front of the people who try to immigrate legally. But who could not see this coming? The only thing both parties can agree on is to weaken the US to make their World Government masters happy. US today is looking more and more like World War 1 Germany.

Is there any other large group of criminals out there demanding rights? Might as well get them taken care of, too.

Why hasn't this group addressed the "anchor baby" status? Leaving the door cracked?

Votes, Votes, Votes, that is what this is all about. Next time our government leaders runs for re-election we must VOTE them out and let them know that WE the people know what the word "Illegal" means.

I want to be paid back for all my tax dollars that were spent providing benefits, ie. education, health care, legal services (crime), food stamps, etc

I want provisions for employers to be put in jail for allowing this.

I WANT ILLEGALS TO BE EXCLUDED FROM SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE/MEDICAID.

The Senate wants to admit more low-skilled workers? Good grief, we don't have enough jobs for our own.. And that letter proving that the boss could not find American employees is a joke, just as it was when Americans were hiring British secretaries with plenty of American girls around. And needless to say, this news will inspire another flood of illegals. Both conservatives and liberals like me seem to be united on this point...this is no time to let more workers in, especially the unskilled, while both sides are doing their best to destroy the American working class.

Comprehensive immigration reform = code words for AMNESTY!

Get ready for another big turner over in Congress if this goes through.

Even then, those here illegally would have to qualify for a "probationary legal status" that would allow them to live and work here — but not qualify for federal benefits — before being able to apply for permanent residency. Once they are allowed to apply they would do so behind everyone else already in line for a green card within the current immigration system.

Why would an illegal alien QUALIFY for federal benefits paid for by CITIZENS???

If someone jumped the line at Disney World while everyone else was dying in the sweltering heat, there would be holy hell to pay! WHY do we allow people to do it illegally THEN reward them???

For Republicans, the November elections were a stark schooling on the importance of Latino voters, who voted for Obama over Republican Mitt Romney 71 percent to 27 percent, helping ensure Obama's victory. That led some Republican leaders to conclude that supporting immigration reform with a path to citizenship has become a political imperative.

No, Romney should have picked RUBIO!!! The results would have been different and we wouldn’t be having this conversation!

What is so hard to understand? These Senators and Congressmen always touts that we are a country based on laws, while allowing certain groups break the laws then rewarding them. No pathway, No welfare, no healthcare, no food stamps, and certainly No cellphones. When will our boy wonder be made to obey the laws that we have on the books? When will the Congress get a backbone and make sure he does follow the law?

The 1986 amnesty was Ted Kennedy's idea, and strictly enforcing existing immigration laws from then forward, promised by the Simpson-Mazzoli Act, was supposed to be part of the deal. So Reagan (who later said it was the biggest mistake he made) and Congress (Dems and Repubs alike) went along and gave amnesty to almost 3 million illegal aliens, sending the message, that if you can steal in and stay long enough, the Americans will reward your illegal acts by giving you amnesty. How strong was that message? We now have 4 times as many, or more, wanting amnesty.

So, let's give these 12 million illegals amnesty and in another 20-25 years it will be 48 million wanting amnesty. Does that sound like a good idea to anyone?

“In 1986 Senator Kennedy said, ‘This amnesty will give citizenship to only 1.1 to 1.3 million illegal aliens. We will secure the borders henceforth. We will never again bring forward another amnesty bill like this.”

They are about to make a liar out of you Ted. (Oh...wait...make that, a liar out of you again.)

The eight senators expected to endorse the new principles Monday are Democrats Charles Schumer of New York, Dick Durbin of Illinois, Robert Menendez of New Jersey and Michael Bennet of Colorado; and Republicans John McCain of Arizona, Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, Marco Rubio of Florida and Jeff Flake of Arizona.

If any of these people are your senators you should immediately write to them while explaining why you are opposing this legislation.

These people are too stupid to know that the American people has had enough. Especially from Charles Schumer whom we know in NY is to take money from Lobbyists and other special interest groups. ( Anyone remember SOPA)

What mike said is just racist and untrue. First of all give me some data that polio is on the rise in the U.S. there were only 220 some cases world wide last year. The fact that TB is on the rise has nothing to do with immigrants and everything to do with the virus becoming resistent to vaccines.

When are republicans going to quit blocking bringing American jobs back from overseas....? July 19 2012 repubs blocked the bill to end tax breaks for those like Romney and Bain who send jobs overseas , so they can take the profits(from tax breaks also) and put the money in offshore accounts to avoid paying American taxes.......When are republicons going to start being Americans?

Get ready for another big turner over in Congress if this goes through.

We're starting to look more and more like Guatemala, but on steroids. Oh - wait - thanks to the two dollar sk.anks in Washington, we ALREADY ARE!!!!

Like Japan, the United States relies heavily on immigration to keep our numbers stable. We do not "replace" ourselves, and have not for many years. American women now put off having children in order to pursue careers. So your post of "we have enough people here already," is just utter and absolute crap showing an impressive level of ignorance and stupidity. We NEED immigration in our country. Thankfully, the GOP has been crushed so heavily by their own xenophobia recently, that they may allow the democrats to pass their reforms this time.

nothin but lousy damed politicians lookin for the latino vote, what don't they get ? these 11 million are ILLEGAL ! ! and they're suckin up our tax dollar.these bastard senators can agree on this but can't pass a budget. time for a good house cleaning in the senate

Yes, Trynka...we need more immigrants with this attitude:

“We have an aging white America. They are not making babies. They are dying. The explosion is in our population… I love it. They are ******** in their pants with fear. I love it.”, “We have got to eliminate the gringo, and what I mean by that is if the worst comes to the worst, we have got to kill him.”– Professor Jose Angel Gutierrez, University of Texas.

“California is going to be a Hispanic state, and anyone who doesn’t like it should leave. They should go back to Europe.” — Mario Obledo, co-founder and President of MALDEF, 1968 to 1973; President of the League of United Latin American Citizens 1983-85, California State Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare 1975-82, awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom

“They‘re afraid we’re going to take over the governmental institutions and other institutions. They’re right. We will take them over. We are here to stay.” — Richard Alatorre, Los Angeles City Council

“We need to avoid a white backlash by using codes understood by Latinos…non-Latinos aren’t watching, they aren’t raising questions”–Fernando Guerra, professor, Loyola Marymount

Aztlan Nation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM9uH4XgOmI

Now, with some Republicans chastened by the November elections which demonstrated the importance of Latino voters and their increasing commitment to Democrats, some in the GOP say this time will be different.

Gimme, gimme, gimme

• Creating a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants already here, contingent upon securing the border and better tracking of people here on visas.

Ok, make the legislation have a trigger. First secure the border. When the border is secure, by a measure of 95% reduction in illegal entry from prior year, the path to citizenship kicks in. You have 5 years to learn fluent English and pass some sort of preliminary citizenship test to qualify for the next stage of the path. If not you get the boot.

• Reforming the legal immigration system, including awarding green cards to immigrants who obtain advanced degrees in science, math, technology or engineering from an American university.

No problem with this at all. This can be done now.

• Creating an effective employment verification system to ensure that employers do not hire illegal immigrants.

No problem with this at all. This can be done now.

• Allowing more low-skill workers into the country and allowing employers to hire immigrants if they can demonstrate they couldn't recruit a U.S. citizen; and establishing an agricultural worker program.

I do have a problem with this. The tired old mantra of "they do the work Americans won't" is completely bogus. When you allow these types of workers in you create the downward pressure on wages to the point that Americans can't do these jobs for the pay the illegals will. The illegals are paid under the table or with a stolen SSI number. The live 5 families to a house. When they're paid under the table they don't have to pay income or payroll taxes. What amazes me is that US labor doesn't pressure their unions to be anti-illegal immigration? Oh, yeah I forgot. It's not about the US laborers it's about the union bosses and their power.

I would consider a seasonal agricultural worker program with very stiff penalties if a worker overstays their work visa. Penalties such as a 5 year banning of this individual participating in the program for a first offense to a lifetime banning for a second offense.

American women now put off having children in order to pursue careers.

Trynka: It is because women can't afford to have children earlier anymore with the rising tax prices. To increase taxes now ( done by our President) only furthers that stupid idea that women don't want to have children. Most people can't afford 4 or 5 children anymore. Now the numbers are like 2 and 3. Increase taxes to pay for those who come here illegally and that number will drop even more.

I think the stupidity comes from people like you who think that immigration is the only way to increase our population.

....Stop punishing the people that are coming here to escape it. If the role was reversed you would do the same.

Steve: If someone was trying to invade your home, would you say " let them stay"? What if your landlord decided to raise your rent to accomodate them. Still okay?

No, it would not be okay.

there are laws on the books that state you can not profit by illegal means. why should people who come here illegally be able to profit by any means. round them up send them back and let them come here by the legal path. my parents had to do it im a first gen american and this is an insult to my mother and father who made great sacrifices for their childrens sake.

Prohibition did not work. Prohibiting drugs or people won't work either. I'm glad to see some progress. Legalize and tax it/them and get the revenue we could use.

@mike-bunchanumbers

We didnt earn the right to be american citizens either....we were just fortunate enough (debatable) to be born here. Being born required 0 effort on our parts sooo....I dont know how their cheating us. If anything, the people who get here illegally kinda did more work to become American than anyone born here soooo....theres that.

Plus, were not overpopulated. We still have TONS of room to take in others. Almost every country in Europe that is smaller than us has a higher density of people. Oh sure I mean China is nothing to shoot for, but I'm just saying...overpopulation is certainly not an issue.

Steve: Before you take too much pity on the children of Mexico, I suggest you travel to other parts of the US where people are barely scraping by for food. Food pantries are already stretched to the limit.

And actually I have seen children living like that when I go to visit my other relatives outside of the US. Do you think it is fair for those children to have to wait longer for access to the US simply because they are not within sight distance? A lot of them have parents who have been waiting many years to come to the US.

No offense Steve, but I would rather pave the way for my own relatives who have been waiting patiently rather than someone who "cut in line".

Trynka - Japan has some of the most strict immigration standards in the world. I wouldn't say they "rely" on immigration even though there are talks of changing their policy. A population drop wouldn't hurt anything, but a population explosion of people who don't belong in the first place definitely would. Most people are starting to realize that having kids isn't worthwhile to say the least, and that having them just to keep the population up is moronic. We need to convince outside groups to keep their levels down or else the standard of living will drop even further for everyone.

Clearly, the poll here on MSN last week on the question of "should they be allowed to stay" revieled that 77% voted to NOT ALLOW illeagles to stay. I believe there were over 800,000 responders.

THIS IS WHAT THE AMERICAN MAJORITY WANT!!!

As with weather systems, pressure equalizes from Low to High. Same thing with Mixi-Hole and the U.S. Mexi-Hole's el-Presidente's continue to point fingers in our direction with all kinds of accusations when the corrupt and inept government south of the border completely FAILS its PEOPLE and its RESPONSIBILITIES which then causes an 'automatic' equalization in pressure from South to North. A continuous flow North of both illegal Mexican residents and, of course, drug traffic and the ills which come with it right straight into our laps! This whole ordeal has been going on for decades while our illustrious politicos sit on their political Asses in Washington. Our politicians' chronic failure rate when it comes to protecting our Sovereign Border should be met with complete CONTEMPT by the American people. Just WHEN do our Cement headed Leaders plan on shutting down the illegal flow and stop the "pressure equalization" between our two countries? It has all gone on for much too long! I just can't wait to see just what hair brained ideas they come up with THIS time. What ever it is I am absolutely sure that it will benefit Big Business here, more than it will help the troubles brought on by decades of doing absolutely nothing to protect our borders.

We're watching CONGRESS....................

Unhappy-1583758

I have seen that here in the US.....And shame on us..but then again those that want to cut social service programs don't seem to care that there are going to be more U.S. citizens in that situation.

Cut in line? How so? I think that it is clearly outlined in the article (bill) how one would go about getting into line.

BTW...I take "pity" on all children anywhere that are in situations that put their health, lives & happiness on the line.....They did not ask to be brought into what ever life they are in.

Where I come from they call it concern for my fellow humans....Not pity.

A hand up....Not a hand out.

Nothing like passing more laws to replace the ones they never enforced. This is almost comical, it is the same with every department or board in Washington, no oversight. Set it in motion and forget about it. Keep the money flowing with automatic spending increases and never give it another thought. What an absolute joke we have for a government.

They want to allow more illegal's into the United States if an employer can prove they can't get American's to do the job. Notice they said employer?

It's clear who those who chose to "comprimise with the President" on this issue, while "chosing their battles" elsewhere but not here, happen to serve. Because this is a disaster to the American worker, and to the value of their worker, that only cuts wages further. It's the same deal when China-Mart (erm Wal-Mart) slashes salaries but then has all the government assistance documents on hand as they encourage their employees to get food stamps, Medicaid, and whatever else as a supplement to to their salary and "benefits" for working at Wal-Mart. The politicians have sold we the people out, once again in favor of the big money interests.

And as to stabalizing Mexico's economy goes (latter comment), the problem with Mexico's economy has nothing to do with it being a poor country. It's like the 11th richest country in the world. The problem is exactly where the money is (the cartels and corrupt government officials), and the corruption within the Mexican government itself. Throwing more money at it isn't a solution so long as the corruption remains. Only a bit of regime change, or at the very least a clean up of their government top to bottom, and a kicking of the crooks out of positions of power and authority would clean that mess up.

On the other hand, the way things are going, perhaps rather then having an open immigration policy to clean up Mexico's problems, or so people can flee it (rather then fix their own country), perhaps we should be talking about annexing Mexico, making it the 51stt state, then the FBI can arrest the den of thieves in the Mexico government who has all these deals with the drug and human trafficers and the cartels, and they can have a vote for a new state government, under the federal government they're already "migrating" illegally to come under....

This isn't immigration reform, it's illegal immigration made legal, which will lead to further exhilarated deterioration of the quality of life in the USA. We truly have seen our "better days" come and go!

Unhappy-1583758

It is also clear to me that you missed the entire point I made when I first posted.

Get Mexico's economy equalized to match closer to the U.S. & Canada. If this was done this would be a non-issue. You see the bigger picture?

ArizonaBill... you should check out what your Senator Menendez said on a Sunday morning show. He wants to push things through too because that is what the majority of polls are ' indicting '. *wrinkles my nose*

How are things supposed to be ok when even California is being invaded by the drug cartel already? Won't that simply pave the way for them to have easier access to get their drugs into the country? Bring the troops home and put them on the borders. If you don't believe that then how about you watch Border Wars!

So now republicans like the immigrants? hmmmm I guess they want their vote? lol not gona happen.

@fedupwithfed. no matter who Romney chose, America simply does not trust or like him. The only way i would vote for him is if Jesus ran with him. The real Jesus.

What is going to be the Union response when the government forces them to admit undocumented workers as a percentage similar to the national numbers? Then tells them that we unfairly restricted them from being unionized and makes them stewards and officers in the union? If the Republicans champion this move that would cancel any effect that the democrats have.

Amnesty for illegals...again. Why have any immigration laws at all? These left wing scum never follow or enforce them. I think we should round up all the politicians and deport them. They are the greatest threat to our country.

Steve, when I say 'cut in line' I'm referring to the fact of illegals getting special treatment vis-a-vis immigration.

My brother married a very nice, honest Fillipino woman and they had to stay in the Phillipines while her paperwork was processed. They jumped through hoops to get her paperwork done correctly, paid thousands in fees, and waited for almost two years before they got to come home.

Meanwhile, a criminal migrant sneaks into the country in the dead of night; lies, cheats, and commits fraud (at the very *least*...) and HE'S allowed to stay in the comfort of the US, allowed to use his criminally aquired assests to fund his 'path to citizenship', and given the benefits that *honest* people aren't afforded. He get to stay here, comfortable and employed, while HONEST folks stay in their own countries and wait for us to say 'OK, you can come in now'. THAT's 'cutting in line' to me.

obama said immigration was going to be one of his top priorities once he got back in to the whitehouse, yet most people voted for him anyway. We all knew this B.S. was coming, so who's fault is it really?

Senator Menendez? Looking for more victims to lean FORWARD? This pedophile is a scumbag... This is just another Illegal move by O'Bama & his Progressive masters to redistribute work from White (non-union trolls) males! This is the real reason for the push to Abolish our 2nd Amendment right.

Now what nbc, abc,cbs,pbs will not tell us is the reason why Mexicans risk their lives to cross the boarder is? Fleeing a Socialist Government? Where only the ruling party (20%) have access to all goods? Under the Socialist ( O'Bama system) Government you have 2 choices, born into the Elite class or join the Mafia!!!! Soon the white male will be jumping the fence to Canada......

You give them a little taste as Mike said (Reagan) and they want more. It has to stop somewhere.

Mara-455355

I think what they proposed in the outline of the bill addresses the line issue and the illegal issues. Anyone with a criminal background will and is sent back to their county of origin.

There was some talk yesterday on the CBS news about imposing some sort of fines and back taxes for those that have been in the county and the only violation they have is entering the country illegally.....Everyone else...back to their native county.

That seems fair....No cuts in line...the bill outlines they are placed behind those that have all ready applied.

We spend a boat load of money "protecting" our border to the south.....Seems to me the money could be better spent by my above suggestions.

If you look at our border with Canada you don't see nearly the presents that we see in the south...Why...Again look at the Canadian Dollar Vs. American Vs. Mexican.....Big gap.

American women now put off having children in order to pursue careers.

In the late 1960's and early 1970's the high school graduating classes of the US were swamped with both media and live visits from the scientific community where the theme was "over population will destroy the Earth in your grandchildren's lifetime."

Our teachers, in our classrooms, were part of the US government's campaign to teach us that the old way of having five and six children per family was not only unhealthy for the mother but was destructive to the natural resources of the US, and the planet.

The optimum family was two children, maybe three if you were financially secure enough. How the hell do you think the "2.1" children analogy that is the standard joke for the last three decades came about?

So many of us thought about it, decided we didn't want the US to become like the over populated, worn out countries we are always being asked to contribute aid to and that conservation of natural resources of our country through population control was smart.....

And look at us now. We are being told we HAVE to allow third world refugees who breed like rats gobble up the resources we sacrificed for, and that because we don't have enough people for the "work force" we have to keep allowing more and more people in on work visas... to work jobs that none of us who are citizens can even seem to find after months and even a year or more of looking for.

It's getting to seem more and more like it's time for a Marie Antoinette moment...

NAFTA....was supposed to raise the standards of workers world wide...it has lower the american peoples ability to compete...where they don't have osha- epa -social security-workers comp- health insurance-over time pay-minimum wage...these politicans are destroying america one law at a time...kiss my ass BILL CLINTON...the man who brought us NAFTA...

Until someone can give a good reason that a person who came here illegally should have an easier path to citizenship than a person waiting in line doing it right, I'll be against giving any of them anything but a boot in the a$$.

"I'm taking you kids to the happiest place on Earth - Tijuana!" - Krusty the
Clown

It's really not that bad. It's a vacation spot where American kids go for
Spring Break, and if you pull it up in Google images, you'll see that from
Tijuana's vantage point, America actually looks like the poor country, across
the border. Here in America, the children of the Appalachian Hills are missing
teeth due to lack of milk, and their fathers die of black lung in the coal
mines. Poverty has long been widespread in states like Mississippi and West
Virginia, and during this recession many families wound up living in their cars,
even in Florida. If we are supposed to let everyone in who wants in, why don't
we just throw open the borders and import people from the Congo as
well? Why don't we spread our wealth to every poor country until every nation on
Earth is caught up and we are all standing on an even field? Who needs America
to be a global financial leader? Part of the government plan is clearly to do
away with this leadership position of our country, and as quickly as
possible! Why do we even have wealthy and poor nations, to begin with? And why
do Steve's comments remind me of all the other hypocrites who have yet to
split their wealth with the poor children of the Appalachian Hills? Why do we
still have poor Amish people, if Steve has ever met these kids?

Though I'm not a doctor, it's still also true I've never robbed a
doctor. Hmmm. And I live in a country where unemployment is at it's highest peak
since the Great Depression, yet so many other people have also not yet turned to
robbery. It's really strange, as if they aren't communists.

Anyway, America naturalizes more immigrants as citizens each year than all
other nations of the world COMBINED, the vast majority of our new immigrants
coming from Mexico. That's for those of you wondering where we already
stand. That's legal immigration, which has more than tripled since the 1990
Immigration Act. 1 in 10 people born in Mexico currently lives
in America. America's immigration system is the easiest in the world. It's true
that Japan also has low birth rates, but they are very strict about immigration.
When America experiences a financial boom, as we did in the late 40s and early
50s, America also experiences a Baby Boom, as we did during that time
period. But when we are facing an economic crisis, Americans have fewer
offspring. This is only wise, and it's this pattern of planning ahead that is
part of the reason we are a prosperous nation.

If we need to get birth rates up, nothing could be a better argument that our
President must do whatever is necessary to boost the economy and get Americans
hired. Preventing the hiring of illegals would work, preventing out-sourcing
would work, as would preventing all foreign competition for jobs. He is doing
the opposite of this - putting (and keeping) policies in place which favor
non-American work. Securing the Mexican border would also work because there
would be less crime and fewer abuses of our tax system, including our prison
system.

screminmimi;Obama's GangBangers

When was the last time you saw a "White American" picking out in the fields? They won't do it.

it's beneath them.

Quit bitching about how they are stealing from Americans when you enjoy a head of lettuce for .99cents not $9.00 a head. Who is getting screwed again?

Exasperated737

Great argument...Now convince the Republican base not to cut any funding for all those programs that help all those people in the USA.

They can't have it both ways.

In 1986, President Reagan and the Democrats in Congress agreed to 'comprehensive immigration reform' wherein those illegal immigrants already here could stay and get work permits, in return for the Democrats promise to pass stiff laws making it illegal for any new illegal immigrants to work here (since it was the employment opportunities that attracted the immigrants).

In that Bill, the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 millions of immigrants were 'legalized.

The problem is that those laws were not enforced, and the result is that we now have 11 million more illegal immigrants (the vast majority of whom are unskilled and poorly educated) who have come here, and now they want the 'same deal'.

What's the point of passing a new 'comprehensive immigration law' if it too will be conveniently ignored and we have to go through this process once again in another generation? What's the incentive for illegal immigrants to actually obey ANY of our immigration laws - indeed, there seems to be an even greater incentive NOT to obey our immigration laws - they get moved ahead of those who actually COMPLY with our laws.

Shameful pandering and rewarding millions for disobeying our laws.

steve the plan isnt to raise mexicos wages to equal ours its to lower ours to be equal with theirs.trying to stop new latinos from coming here is impossible.and as others have pointed out deporting 11 million people isnt going to happen.we have to face the facts.their women are superior.they want children.

Steve..BS!!!

My auto insurance is higher because I have to pay higher premiums to make up for the illegals who break the law and drive uninsured. My county taxes are higher because the extra money is needed to pay for the illegals getting free medical care in county hospitals. My health insurance is higher to help the hospitals make up for giving free health care to the illegals. My school property taxes are higher to pay for bilingual education. My sales taxes are higher to help pay for welfare for the illegals you claim are so hard working.

So you think the tomatoes are cheaper? That tomato has already cost me whether I go in the store and buy it or not.

You think your house is cheaper because it was built by illegals? Don't be naive. The builder / developer / contractor doesn't pass much, if any, of the savings on to the consumer. They pocket that money and laugh at us all the way to the bank.

And I would much rather go into a restaurant and pay $2-3 dollars more per meal if I knew the cook and the dishwasher were Americans making a decent wage.

You and I, and all of us pay one way or the other.

BTW...the people you discribed are the ones they have called "the takers" sit on their asses collecting benefits. I read it all the time on here and hear it from the Neocons.

hs321

Go back to my post (1.59) I said business is addicted to the cheap labor.

Steve-3564331

In reading all the pissing and moaning about immigration, I have to say that most are really missing a key point in all this.

Mexico needs to equalize it's economy to be more in line of the rest of North America. The US and Canada have a pretty close dollar ratio, & wages only very slightly. While in Mexico there is a very drastic difference.

Trust me the economy of Mexico and the USA are being equalized, but not as you think it should be. The economy in the USA is being drug down to being on par with Mexico. You do know that less than 5 years ago the US dollar was about 30% higher than the Canadian dollar? What happened to cause that? Oh yeah, our economy was tanked. Give it 4 more years of Obama tinkering and we'll be crashing into Canada to do work that the Canadians won't do for payment under-the-table.

All I have to say is time will tell what the final verdict is but most importantly our government must enforce and secure the borders whatever they do, which is something they have failed at time and again. We can't continue to let the border leak like a sieve. The flow must be cut off first and part of this whole process will have to include increased deportation as well. Another thing that needs to be address is the 14th amendment and the anchor baby issue. That will go a real long ways in helping. I'm all for immigrants coming here, damn hard workers (I'll trade for some of the lazy leeches we have now), and I realize that we just can't deport all 11 million either, won't and can't happen. But we can give a path to citizenship and concurrently stop the flow and of lawbreakers, close the loopholes, and moving forward enforce the rules like they should be. It's going to have to be some give and take but we can crack down on this and make sure the problem doesn't get any worse and so that future immigrants do have to go thru the legal channels like everyone else.

It is time

I'd also like to call BS on the birth issue.

The vast majority of the Hispanic population is Catholic, and according to the church the use of birth control is prohibited.

I would think that if the Republican played their cards right, that this is a huge voting block as they also do not condone abortion.

JustaPilot:

We can get into a long debate as to what caused that, more over who caused that.....This forum

is about immigration reform.

•Creating a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants already here, contingent upon securing the border and better tracking of people here on visas.

Which really just tells them, if you can just make it across the border...your an American! How bout just the second part only.

•Reforming the legal immigration system, including awarding green cards to immigrants who obtain advanced degrees in science, math, technology or engineering from an American university.

Agree.

•Creating an effective employment verification system to ensure that employers do not hire illegal immigrants.

Agree.

•Allowing more low-skill workers into the country and allowing employers to hire immigrants if they can demonstrate they couldn't recruit a U.S. citizen; and establishing an agricultural worker program.

This one...sounds suspicious.

"For Republicans, the November elections were a stark schooling on the importance of Latino voters, who voted for Obama over Republican Mitt Romney 71 percent to 27 percent, helping ensure Obama's victory. That led some Republican leaders to conclude that supporting immigration reform with a path to citizenship has become a political imperative."

The Latinos comprised 10% of the votes in 2012 = 12.6 million votes. Obama won that group by a margin of 44% = 5.4 million votes, which was greater than his overall victory margin of 4.9 million votes, so PANDERING TO THE HISPANICS WON HIM THE ELECTION.

People collecting 'free' welfare and medicaid benefits comprised 25% of the votes in 2012 = 31.5 million votes, and Obama won this group by a margin of 12.9 million votes, which was almost 3 times his overall margin of victory of 4.9 million votes, so PANDERING TO THE WELFARE VOTE ALSO WON HIM THE ELECTION.

Unfortunately for the Republicans, the Democrats will ALWAYS 'out-pander' the Republicans when it comes to offering 'something for nothing'.

Of course those responsible Americans who actually work, obey the laws, and pay income taxes are the ones that pay the price.

MORE UNSKILLED LABOR. That is what we have millions of already. 57% of latino families are receiving government assistance. Of course the new ones will need welfare too. I know some politicians that should be tried for treason

You see this is what I don't get.

On one hand the Republicans say don't tax employers...let them keep the tax breaks, they will invest and hire more people....Then the base turns around and says those same businesses are hiring illegals and Americans should have those jobs.

Okay so let me get this right...you support that?

You can't have it both ways.

Steve, you wrote "...and the only violation they have is entering the country illegally"

the only reason an illegal migrant wouldn't have any violations except illegal entry is the governments continued refusal to enforce their laws. They will not penalize the illegal for having a forged or stolen identity. They will not penalize the illegal for working without authorization. They will not penalize the illegal for employment fraud, credit fraud, or document fraud. They will not penalize the illegal for straw-purchasing vehicles and fraudulently registering them, for driving them without license or registration. To make a long story short...there is no such thing as a 'law-abiding' illegal immigrant. So they ALL should have to go home and apply --- just like honest, decent REAL immigrants do.

Mara, these people are not 'cutting the line'. Your sister in law had a path to come here. The illegal immigrants we are talking about do not have a so called path. They are not cutting the line...for them...there is no line. Never has been. Many immigrants have a legal means of coming here ...but must wait more than two years. Did your sister in law 'cut' them? (rhetorical - no she did not). She came via a different legal pathway. Thats what immigration reform would do...allow a new, different, pathway, to those that now have none. Nobody would be 'cut'...as the others would not get pushed back.

And most of us know little about immigration laws. This 'line' concept is nonsense....since most of the people affected by immigration reform were never 'allowed' on the line to begin with. And the negative connotation applied to 'rewarding' people for breaking the law is also nonsense. Many, many, laws were enacted subsequent to people breaking them. ie, prohibition, some of the new drug laws, civil disobedience actions, to name a few.

steve ever work in a factory that employs a large percentage of mexicans.i have 2 of them.the women in one treated an unmarried woman in her upper 20s with no kids like crap.its a different culture where family is more important than things[republican nightmare].then this woman got pregnate and married.soon after she was included in the womens groups.i dont know if as a single woman she was seen as a threat i just saw what they did to her.i did ask why and was told because she had no kids

SabotAndHeat

All of the 'new' proposals are the same ones that were included in the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986

Those same provisions have been ignored for the last 27 years.

What makes anyone think that the 'new' ones won't be conveniently ignored - just like the last ones? We will go thru this 'exercise in futility' again in another generation.

I think it it funny that anyone believes the Republican party has ever been
against illegal immigration or for that matter most politicians. Most boarder
states are ran by the Republican Party and they have yet to stop it. They don't
even enforce any of the state laws that would help stop it. All they want it
the cheap labor. I can't find anyone to fill this $7.50/hr job that really
should pay over $20/hr plus benefits. As you seen in this election neither
party is going to do anything that is seen as against the Latino vote.

Like Japan, the United States relies heavily on immigration to keep our numbers stable. We do not "replace" ourselves, and have not for many years. American women now put off having children in order to pursue careers.

trynka, post 1.54

Do you have any idea how expensive raising a child is today? When you can't find a job or the one you have pays you little more than minimum wage feeding, schooling and clothing a child is next to impossible. Also, with the big nanny state and every freaking fruit loop under the sun trying to tell you how to raise your child and then watching the children they're raising disrespect their parents, dress like hookers and behave like monkeys many people decide just to not have any and avoid all the BS entirely!

George:

How can you say that they are not? They have committed a crime by entering illegally and then theft by taking resources that are earmarked for legal citizens...I have a problem with the loyalties of such people - if there was a war with Mexico who would they fight for? That's right - Mexico..and there is where the problem lies - the older generation of immigrants wanted to belong to America...this time they want what America has to offer but will not choose her over mexico...those are not Americans and they should be treated as traitors.

Mara-455355

You left out IF it was the only violation.

johnQcitizen

So, what I hear you saying is that it was peer pressure that she got pregnant? Geez...sounds like this person is easily led.

This 'line' concept is nonsense....since most of the people affected by immigration reform were never 'allowed' on the line to begin with.

If there isn't a line for them, then they aren't wanted here. No country in the world can support every poor uneducated person that wants to come to that country. That is what people like you expect us, the taxpayers, to do. I pay taxes for this country, not to take in the poor of every other country. The 'war on poverty' has been going on for decades, and by allowing illegals in, by giving them amnesty, all the government is doing is creating a bigger issue.

And the negative connotation applied to 'rewarding' people for breaking the law is also nonsense.

Well, lets see, reagan gave amnesty (and later said it was his biggest mistake), and did that stop illegal immigration? No, all it did was tell people that want to come here that they don't have to obey our laws. They can come here illegally and the government (not the people) will forgive them. So.... it is NOT nonsense that the government (not the people) are rewarding illegals for breaking the law. It is also not nonsense that there's a negative connotation put to that, it is meant to be negative. Unless you think I should be able to move into your house without your permission, eat your food, watch your tv, expect you to financially support me and pay for my medical, and then get rewarded by the government for doing that?

Also, update the 14th amendment to kill the whole anchor baby thing.

Obama focus in deportation only for the ones with criminal records is a violation to our immigration laws, however the numbers of illegal deported in the last 4 years are high because with the bad economy, a lot of unemployed illegals decide to go back on business like they did in their home town, steal, drug trafficking and other criminal behavior. The fact is with the border open nobody knows who is coming. We can not allow it continues. Who guaranty all illegal who are coming have good intentions, nobody. I do support Marco Rubios approach because it is realistic, we can't deport all illegals, that is a fact, we can't have a group of people living underground, not paying taxes and abusing our system is another fact and we can not allowed Democrats violating our immigration laws, creating safe haven for illegals, to the point that some Blue States are giving Driver License to illegals. That needs to stop. Close border end with the sanctuary cities and States, par of the solution start giving permit to work to the ones that pass the requirements and deport all the rest, require employers e-verify or pay high fees . One of the problems in the previous bill is that there was not requirement of documentation to verify the time an illegal was living in this country. According to Rubio the three step that an illegal immigrant have to follow until to get citizenship take over 15 years, but it could be more if the borders remain open, that is a condition in order for illegals to get permanent resident visa. There is one important condition to any immigration law, the government must enforce immigration law in every step otherwise in the next years we will be in the same problem because Democrats needs illegals to get the Latino vote. Declare English the official language, declare illegal any organization, government, town, state that provide help to illegal immigrants, end the Dream Act. And close all the loopholes that allowed illegals live in undocumented in this country. The next step, regulate the 14 th Amendment to end with the anchor baby loophole.

Mara-455355

Don't shoot the messenger..I was just posting what I had heard on CBS news...Thought it was reasonable.

This is such a big ball of BS! Reward the criminals???????? Really?????? From what I have read and also from what common sense and decency dictate, it looks the American citizens will, once again, have to step up and stop the nonsense. Illegal aliens are not wanted, not needed and need to understand that politicians are basically stupid. What the hell do they think will happen if this crap passes? These people think they can break the law of the land and the LEGAL CITIZENS of the country will just roll over? Think again criminals! Ain't gonna happen! Once the actual CITIZENS of this country make it clear that this is NOT what WE want, the politicians will cave. NO pathway for criminals. EVER!!!!!!!!

Time to get together people. We can stop this, we can. But it has to be a smart, concerted effort. NOW IS THE TIME! Also, for those who may think that I am a neocon.......surprise! I'm a democrat, as liberal as they come, female and black! I also know the difference between right and wrong. Rewarding illegal aliens for breaking the law is W-R-O-N-G!!!!! We can stop it. NOW!

Steve-3564331

I haven't SEEN a .99 head of lettuce in years so I don't know what you are talking about. I grow my own lettuce in season and I don't eat it the rest of the year.

Don't presume to know anything about me or my life, or to know everything about the lives of the people here on the Vine who are angry about this latest development. There are many white people in my neck of the woods who spend time in the fields, then truck their produce to farmer's markets and roadside stands on the weekends to sell it.

Do you always talk when you are completely ignorant of the subject matter? And I don't think I mentioned "lettuce" once in my original comment.

Obama is one slick politician:

http://townhall.com/columnists/rachelalexander/2013/01/28/obamas-divide-the-gop-and-conquer-strategy-n1499435

So let me see if I have this right? The president just sat and swore to uphold the constitution and the laws of the united states, but now he is trying to take away our guns, has shut down free speech in his presence by making it illegal to protest against his policy if he is present, has a hit list to kill Americans without due process, and has with another executive order has made it legal to imprison without trial any american he deems is a threat to the US, along with this he is now trying to force citizens to go against their religious convictions and force them (if they own a company) to fund abortions).

But now he says right after swearing this oath that he wants to let us know that if we as citizens dare to ever trespass we will be arrested, but if you trespass into this country then not only will you not be prosecuted but you will be giving a path to citizenship.

I am beginning to wonder sometimes if I would be better off to give up my citizenship because then I just might have more rights.

Look you guys & gals

Our country was built on the backs, blood & sweat of immigrants & slaves, most of which worked for little money or no money at all.

No one was out there bitching about not having a job because all the aforementioned where out building our railroads. They where more than happy to feed them & put them into camps to work for "The greater good of our country".

Realize that if today all illegal immigrants left the U.S. our agricultural system would shut down. I'm not just saying that....look at the proposed bill...that's why the agriculture is addressed as part of the reform.

screminmimi

I think your trying to own something that isn't yours within my statement. I could have used Grapefruit for all it mattered.

Steve..post 1.100. You're comparing apples to oranges. Try again.

Steve, this 2012, not the early part of this nation's history. Things have changed considerably since then.

vote NO INCUMBENTS BACK IN,we don't need these criminals in office,we HAVE TO GET THEM OUT,no ifs, ands or buts.

"if today all illegal immigrants left the U.S. our agricultural system would shut down"

so what youare saying is that YOU or your leftist buddies WONT take an ag job , we know alot of you lefties can't find jobs with your taxpayer paid degrees in "Medieval History" or "Political Sociology"

those that do not learn from history are bound to repeat it;

Rome in the 3rd century A.D., was overrun by new immigrants from the east , north and west; the new immigrants did not adapt to Roman customs, law and code of conduct; Rome fell within 100 years, with the fall of Rome the western world was plunged into the dark ages for 700 years; if America falls the world will be deprived of the greatest civilization since the Roman Empire.

The Dream Act took 800,000 names of children of illegals who got a 2 year pass. (if you believe Obama*).

Now there are 22 million more names to get. And whatever needs to be said to get those names, needs to be said. (Dream Act Part II) both of the major political partys have things at stake here. The dems will lose big, if they try to give amnesty to illegals. The Republicans will gain by stopping or standing in the way of amnesty. There are monies owed by the illegals who were here for years and working without paying taxes.

Every week there are are lines at money sending services. and they are hispanics sending drug money back to their foreign sources. Any Ill-gotten gains can be confiscated from a continuing criminal enterprise. Even if it was exported already.

hs321

Steve..post 1.100. You're comparing apples to oranges. Try again.

Right...Keep tell yourself that. If that's what you need to get threw your day.

Tell me why it is again that you have top Republicans supporting this bill?

John Athondoe

Had you read any of my earlier posts I pointed that out. "When was the last time you saw a "white man out picking the fields".... "They won't they think it's beneath them".

"if today all illegal immigrants left the U.S. our agricultural system would shut down"

That's a bunch of crap and if it's true then maybe it should shut down. Maybe it's time for a reset in this whole damn country if the people in it are too damn lazy to walk into a field and pick up the food lying in it so they can eat.

These freaking talking points of LaRaza and the other activists are over used and done... time to stick a fork in it.

Oh please don't say nonsense.. Here there are many people to work into our agricultural and field.ok

hs321

Steve, this 2012, not the early part of this nation's history. Things have changed considerably since then.

I would hope so. I have seen your posts on other matters and your one of those "Protectionists". Me first...screw everyone else.

You bring up the consitusition, & like to quote what our forefathers ment by it, then turn around and tell me we live in a different world today.....NO KIDDING!

AJ-1945218

WHERE....I live in Southern California...Show me where this is happening and the BLS numbers to back that up.

myname123

Try following the bouncing ball of the conversation if you can....This dialog has been going on for more than a few posts.

@ John Athondoe,

May I point you to my two prior posts where I state that I am basically a "lefty". You will also take note of how I feel about illegal aliens. On this issue, we are on the same side of the fence. Clearly you can see that, at least on this issue, we, those who are against rewarding criminals, need to work together in order to achieve what is right. Try not to antagonize those who may have a different political stance than you. When it comes to this issue, as strange as it seems, we need one another to stop this foolishness.

Had you read any of my earlier posts I pointed that out. "When was the last time you saw a "white man out picking the fields".... "They won't they think it's beneath them".

Steve: You need to move to other places around the US where they grow crops and look around. You know what.... those places do just fine without illegals. In fact, my friend owns a farm; 140 acres. She doesn't employ illegals and guess what, she's white. She hires people ( and yes white men help pick the crops too) They don't think it's beneath them. This is their livelihood.

You are just spreading more propaganda for those who want amnesty for illegals.

SAY NO TO AMNESTY. TELL YOUR SENATORS THROUGH PHONE OR E-MAILS.

When you apply for a job in America, you have to show them a copy of your ID, SS number, and sometimes a birth certificate. What's the big effen deal. I have no problem with it. Just like when you go shopping and use a credit card, most times they ask fir your ID .

If it weren't for illegals working in this country. The economy would collapse. People would starve because Americans are too freaking lazy to pick fruits and veggies in a field to feed themselves.

Illegals in America contribute a lot more to our society than you will even understand, and making them legal also means they will be paying Federal and SS taxes as well.

I have no problem them becoming made US citizens, and if they break the law, then revoke their citizenship.

People need to stop whining. Americans want illegals here to abuse and use them for cheap labor, and then when you get busted for hiring them, you want them deported for breaking the laws. Go after the people hiring them, not the worker that was taken advantage of and used for profits for some business owner looking to cheat on his/her taxes.

Steve ...I agree with your notes on Canada and the economy they have Versus Mexico........Any chance we can build a tunnel straight to Canada from Mexico?........

screminmimi

You don't get it....It's ok.

If the Ag. system shuts down so falls the rest.

A few senators just bought a bunch of votes; with my money. Scum floats to the top.

People need to stop whining. Americans want illegals here to abuse and use them for cheap labor, and then when you get busted for hiring them, you want them deported for breaking the laws. Go after the people hiring them, not the worker that was taken advantage of and used for profits for some business owner looking to cheat on his/her taxes.

LAFFYTAFFY: Illegals use Americans as well. Don't think to place all the blame on businesses in the US. If they didn't come, businesses would have no choice but to hire American workers. The only difference, is that for illegals the benefits outweigh the losses. " Sure I don't make a lot of money, but I can get free healthcare and free education and free lunches for my kids", which the American taxpayer has to pay for more since illegals are covered under need-based programs.

We don't pity them for getting something for free while the rest have to earn it.

starsailing

That might be cheaper in the long run.

Unhappy-1583758

I have seen many parts of this country...Good for your friend...Sorry the numbers don't prove your theory.

I can see why you use the tag "unhappy"...it suits you.

I'd love to stay and watch the feeding frenzy by the pariah , but I have work to do...Yes, I own a business, and work for a living.

Have fun

Steve-3564331

JustaPilot:

We can get into a long debate as to what caused that, more over who caused that.....This forum

is about immigration reform.

I know the "who" that crashed the economy is. It is every congress since Carter passed the CRA in 1977 that relaxed the rules on it. If you want to blame GWB for it you are being to simple minded and ignoring a long line of irresponsible politicians. But I was more to commenting on our economy being drug down to Mexico's level rather than we being able to bring Mexico to our level as you asserted. We can't pay our own bills in this country we sure can't pay another countries bills too.

Now to your assertion that lettuce would go to $9 a head... When I was growing up I know who was picking the oranges, watermelons and a long list of other crops. It was my peers and their parents, brothers, aunts, uncles. Now the citizens of my community have been displaced by illegal aliens. I do not live in a cave and think that an employee that has all of the legal protections that a citizen comes with on the job will not make some items cost increase. But the current system is unsustainable. We currently have no idea WHO is sneaking in our country. This madness has to stop. To bad the democrats didn't keep their word to Reagan when he was promised that border security would come after amnesty. So I blame this current debacle on the democrats and their lies.

FlatIron72

You know it's not in America's best interest when slimeballs like Schumer are involved. And the neocons who go along with this aught to be ashamed of themselves.

Neocons ought to be ashamed of themselves for existing!

The last time that OUR government tried to impose an amnesty bill upon us, 80% of the people were against it. i like the rest of the measures for reform that were discussed though, even though they ALREADY EXIST, and WERE PASSED UNDER REAGAN ALMOST 30 YEARS AGO!

WE DO NOT SUPPORT AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL CRIMINAL IMMIGRANTS

this is a REPRESENTATIVE form of government...OUR representatives need to start DOING WHAT THEY ARE TOLD. Start with ENFORCE OUR EXISTING LAWS

So illegal immigrants are given an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN).

Like a Social Security number, it contains nine digits and it is used by U.S. employers to withhold taxes and it is used by illegal immigrants to file their tax returns.

You might be thinking that this sounds completely insane considering the fact that it is illegal for them to have jobs in the United States, and you would be right.

But this is how the system works.

And it turns out that illegal immigrants have been exploiting the additional child tax credit to receive absolutely huge tax refunds.

We’ve seen sometimes 10 or 12 dependents, most times nieces and nephews, on these tax forms,” a tax preparer-turned-whistleblower told WTHR News. “The more you put on there, the more you get back.”

“Here’s a return right here: we’ve got a $10,300 refund for nine nieces and nephews.”

“We’re getting an $11,000 refund on this tax return. There’s seven nieces and nephews,” he said, pointing to another set of documents. “I can bring out stacks and stacks. It’s just so easy it’s ridiculous.”

Last year, the whistleblower alerted the IRS to dozens of examples of illegal immigrants using this scam.

Read more at http://www.infowars.com/millions-of-illegal-immigrants-are-using-a-massive-scam-to-get-bigger-tax-refunds-than-you-are/

So much for them being law abiding citizens otherwise.

george pauljohn

@fedupwithfed. no matter who Romney chose, America simply does not trust or like him. The only way i would vote for him is if Jesus ran with him. The real Jesus.

George, America didnt get to even know Romney, they bought the Obama lies hook line and sinker!

"So much for them being law abiding citizens otherwise" -Unhappy

yeah, i stole a bicycle in my reckless and impulsive youth, but other than that i was a law abiding citizen. should i get away with stealing the bike then?

Unhappy-1583758

So illegal immigrants are given an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN).

I couldn't pass this one up.....BUll@!$%#!

I have a friend that works for the IRS....This is nothing more than tripe. All large dependant tax credits are hand audited, and raise a red flag in the IRS. I just got off the phone with her about this one. LMFAO....Try using fact not fiction.

"When was the last time you saw a "White American" picking out in the fields? They won't do it.

it's beneath them."

That is a flat out bald faced lie. My first job was working in a field. A Legal American citizen has expenses that illegal laborers get to skip out on. American's cannot survive on the wages that illegal laborers are paid, in fact their wages are below the standards set by federal law. seems they get to break all kinds of laws and get away with it. probably because they work for so cheap, am i right? they are being exploited.

why do you spew this party line crap? they feed you BS and lies and you just eat it without investigating, without discovering reality for yourself? very little effort on your part to educate yourself would have told you that they were lies before you regurgitated them as if they were fact.

Here is an idea and would much better.

1. Secure our boarders with fencing and military personnel with the right to act both in defense of the boarders and in self-defense. Shut down both boarders.
2. To pay for this, set up work vista programs all over the World. Anyone can sign up as long as they are not criminals or part of a terrorist group. Every person will not have to pay into SSI, because they will not be eligible for it, but will still be taxed at the same rate to pay for both securing the boarder

1. Make all Work visa's either two or four years, with the right to renew so long as the worker has been shown to be working and paying taxes. If they lose their jobs then give them a short time period to find another or go back home.
2. All schooling can be as usual because with paying for taxes then they also pay for schooling, but states might wish to look at taxing wages because they will not be paying through property taxes.
3. All children born while here will be citizens of the country of origin. If needed then tweak the constitution to make this work.
4. To pay for this system all people under work vista will have to pay the same amount into a tax for worker vista’s that would have been otherwise paid into SSI. All employers will still have to pay the matching amount. Any money left over will be ordered to be passed over to SSI to help the health of that program.
5. If after two consecutive terms on work vista, if the people wish to become citizens then work something in that would give them a route to citizenship.
6. Any crimes committed while here will result in immediate deportation, government should work on computer bio-tags or retina scans to make sure these people are never allowed back in. Also if a person commits a crime then flees the boarder, then try them in absentia and enforce if they ever try to cross the boarders again.
7. Make Mexico and Canada work with this program, all aid will be contingent upon them both helping and enforcing their side of the boarder.
8. There will be no social services available; an ability to work and support oneself must be shown to come over with Work Vista.

Oh good, more immigration laws to ignore!

i do not say this to be threatening by any means, in fact i find the practice barbaric, but it exists nonetheless and so must be acknowledged. there are places in this world where crossing that invisible line we call a Border results in being shot on sight, no questions. we are quite a bit less hostile about this sovereignty thing than most, are we not? we have been very kind and generous and hospitable to this point, but it has gotten out of hand. we do not wish to give to you at the expense of our own. now get out. please. much like my mother in law, you have overstayed your welcome.

I thought that our immigration laws were there to help keep criminals out of our country! Yet here we are rewarding criminals that are here breaking our laws, by offering them them a chance for amnesty! Do we really want to allow people into our country that have shown us that our laws are secondary to their needs? We wonder about where our morals are in this country when our own legislators make laws to reward lawbreakers! This tells all it is okay to break our laws! Much of this is exploitation of the illegal immigrants and our own citizens who are in need of a job!

This all happened because there was no ORGANIZED RESISTANCE. These traitors in DC only understand one thing; ABSOLUTE BRUTAL FORCE.

1) Call, email, mail the Republican headquarters and tell them that you are no longer a republican and you demand that you be removed from their party.

2) Talk with neighbors, then communities then counties. We need organized militias in every county.

3) The Constitution specifically gives American citizens to enforce laws not being enforced by the federal government.

4) This illegal immigration will not be allowed to stand. If it gets violent then it's the Governments fault.

I thought that our immigration laws were there to help keep criminals out of our country!

You thought wrong. Immigration laws have always been about opening borders during periods of labor shortages, then limiting the influx of ethnic non-Protestants once the labor shortage has been addressed. Try reading up on American history.

Steve, I'm not a "protectionist", unless desiring ones culture to not be destroyed by an enormous influx of immigrants from one particular region of the world, which is quite discriminatory I might add, is protectionist rather than culturilist.

Perhaps you just don't understand the situation. Hispanics, and primarily Mexicans, are moving into the U.S. at such a rate that they need not assimilate. In many areas in the U.S., a person can wake up to a radio alarm clock, listen to a traffic report on TV, drop the kids off at school and talk to the teacher and principal, go to the post office, the doctor, the grocery store and work, drive home listening to music, watch TV all night before going to bed and never need to speak or hear a single word of English the entire day.
One morning recently on the radio, an Hispanic caller who was a delivery man that did not speak Spanish told of routinely being chastised by Hispanics because he did not speak "the language of his people".
America is no longer a melting pot to them. There are two pots. Americans and Hispanics. And as history proves, this situation almost always results in division.

There is a real threat to America, and it is represented by every Hispanic in this country who has no desire to become an American, and by every one of them that puts their Hispanic brethren before America. And there are tens of millions of them.

I've posted the above before and often get replies from people in Mexifornia...whoops, I mean California, saying this very scenario is played out in town after town and often in some areas of many of our cities there. Is that OK with you?

As far as reading my post about the Constitution and the past, I am 100% behind the Second Amendment. It was written to forbid government from denying Americans their human right to self defense. I can't imagine you being against human rights.

I am beginning to wonder sometimes if I would be better off to give up my citizenship because then I just might have more rights.

We'd certainly be better off.

Steve… SPOT ON!!! Agreed!! Well, let see what history can
tell us about the never ending story of immigration.

What is immigration? As per Wikipedia, “immigration is made
for many reasons, including temperature, breeding, economic, political, family
re-unification, natural disaster, poverty or the wish to change one’s
surrounding voluntarily”

Immigration has been happening since the beginning of human
life. Like in the USA (which by the way is forged by immigrants...or not? I am
confused.... North America is the land of immigrant, forged by immigrant for
the immigrant or the history is wrong?) Immigration has happened to the rest of
the world. If the immigration was never happened, USA will never be what it is
today. Imagine if the Japanese or Chinese or the muslins discover America
instead of the group of immigrant of white people searching for religion
freedom? Oh boy… what a different story that could be.

Anyway, wanted or not, immigration is a business,
profitable, like drugs. Since is a business and still is profitable, laws are
going to be made to appease the mob, is a mob controller, a smoke screen.
Slaves are to be exploited, brought to do what we don’t want to do…

You are in need today, and then you are prohibiting/denying
the “slave” to work; now you are claiming what was once yours…

Let’s be clear… You may have born in USA…but your roots are
from other part of the world… The real Americans are quartered in reserves...
the rest are uninvited guests.

Mexico, Spain, France, Italy, Japan, China, Greece, Germany,
Egypt, Africa, England, etc, THOSE are the real cultural initiators and the
precursors of the culture in North America and the rest of the world.

We are here to stay, wanted or not, today immigration to the
USA, tomorrow… may be the opposite.

Steve-3564331 "When was the last time you saw a "White American" picking out in the fields?"

I think it was last year - Steven Colbert (Comedy Central) drove to the field in a limo, got out, put on gloves and worked for maybe 30 minutes - then he asked the foreman 'how did I do', and was told 'terrible', so he got back into his limo and drove off. lol

By the way - Not all legal American residents are 'White'.

No kidding Roy....Didn't even occur to me. Seems like the "white men" are the ones bitching and moaning about it....Notice how I write "white men" I put quotation marks around for a reason.

We came here legally. We got the visa, paid the immigration lawyer 10K to help us come to the USA. So now we really feel stupid, we never took an handout built up our own business but never thought the GOP would cave to give amnesty to a bunch of criminals. if you broke the immigration law then you are here as a criminal. Nothing good will come to the GOP for turning its back on those of us that followed the law. if the GOP caves then they will never win another election. This country tried the amnesty during the 1980's, but now there are another 11 million illegals here. if they give this amnesty then there will be another 20 miilion here within 10 years. and Amerika will become another latino nation.

John Q Public-6353273

1.4 million deported under the current administration, that's the largest amount that have ever been deported in any one administration.

This is going to happen over and over. Even if we built a solid fence 20 feet high across the entire border...It would still happen.

We rarely hear about the amount of deaths due to illegals trying to cross into our county. That is a human rights issue regardless of the actions illegal or not. It shows the desperation to get here, that one would risk their life. Some would say too bad, they knew it would be a risk, It's still a human life none the less.

Realizing that with all other factors, I think this proposal is a good one and it has a lot of support on both sides.

Allowing more low-skill workers into the country and allowing employers to hire immigrants if they can demonstrate they couldn't recruit a U.S. citizen; and establishing an agricultural worker program.

Workers in agricultural don't get paid by the hour, they get paid by the "tote, or tub" that is picked and you really have to bust your ass bending over all day, and still not make minimum wage.

Yeah, Yeah, I know - those poor farmers can't make a living without cheap labor - here's a deck the BULLCRAP Cards. http://farm.ewg.org/ If a farmer hires "cheap labor" than they should not be receiving farm aid on top of it - that is just frick GREED.

My family came here "legally" in 1643 with a land grant.

How can anyone be deported when his aunt and uncle are still here after being ordered out in the 90s? Nepotism at its finest, at least his family is safe.