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Subscribe to RSSIn an exclusive interview with Meet the Press, President Barack Obama tells David Gregory he's optimistic the fiscal cliff can be averted, lays out the goals for his second term, and also discusses the Benghazi attack and how it was handled by the administration and those on Capitol Hill.
Updated at 1:30 p.m. ET: President Barack Obama on Sunday said congressional Republicans and their insistence on preventing tax increases for the very wealthy are standing in the way of a deal to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff.
In an exclusive interview on NBC's "Meet the Press," the president chided House Republicans as the clock continued to run out on a potential agreement.
"They say that their biggest priority is making sure that we deal with the deficit in a serious way, but the way they're behaving is that their only priority is making sure that tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans are protected," Obama said. "That seems to be their only overriding, unifying theme."
President Barack Obama says he negotiated with House Speaker Boehner in good faith and moved more than halfway in order to achieve a grand bargain.
House Speaker John Boehner issued a statement shortly after Obama's interview was broadcast accusing the president of backpedaling on "needed cuts and reforms" that he had previously agreed upon.
With a little more than one day remaining before the nation faces automatic spending cuts and tax hikes that could impact an already-wobbling American economy, the president implied that there has been little progress in recent days to justify hopes of a last-minute deal to prevent going over the fiscal cliff at year's end.
"I was modestly optimistic yesterday, but we don't yet see an agreement," he said in the interview, taped on Saturday at the White House. "And now the pressure's on Congress to produce."
The president appeared open to eliminating at least some of the scheduled automatic spending cuts if Republicans agree to tax increases for the wealthy. Those cuts are slated to impact defense spending and non-entitlement discretionary spending beginning on Jan. 1.
"If we have raised some revenue by the wealthy paying a little bit more, that would be sufficient to turn off what's called the sequester, these automatic spending cuts, and that also would have a better outcome for our economy long-term," he said.
The president challenged Republicans to vote on legislation that he said should be introduced by the Democrat-controlled Senate to prevent taxes on the "middle class" from being increased.
But he did not specify what income level he would be willing to accept as a dividing line between those who retain Bush-era tax rates and those whose rates would increase. The president has consistently supported increasing taxes on families making over $250,000 a year, but that figure has been a major bargaining chip in negotiations.
Wherever the line on tax increases ends up, Obama urged a vote in both houses on a final Senate bill if a broader agreement cannot be reached.
Pete Souza / White House Photo
President Barack Obama is interviewed by David Gregory of NBC's "Meet The Press" in the Blue Room of the White House, Dec. 29, 2012.
"Everybody should have a right to vote on that," he said. "If Republicans don't like it, they can vote no. But I actually think that there's a majority support for making sure that middle class families are held harmless."
"So far, at least, Congress has not been able to get this stuff done," he added. "Not because Democrats in Congress don't want to go ahead and cooperate, but because I think it's been very hard for Speaker Boehner and Republican Leader McConnell to accept the fact that taxes on the wealthiest Americans should go up a little bit, as part of an overall deficit reduction package."
Dismissing the notion that the Democratic Party is as compromise-averse as the GOP, the president said Democrats -- "warts and all" -- have more consistently agreed to components of bipartisan deals.
"What I'm arguing for are maintaining tax cuts for 98 percent of Americans. I don't think anybody would consider that some liberal left-wing agenda. That used to be considered a pretty mainstream Republican agenda," he said. "And it's something that we can accomplish today if we simply allow for a vote in the Senate and in the House to get it done. The fact that it's not happening is an indication of how far certain factions inside the Republican Party have gone where they can't even accept what used to be considered centrist, mainstream positions on these issues."
The president offered no new suggestions of compromise measures that may be more palatable to Republicans, although he acknowledged that some Democrats oppose entitlement adjustments and some of the spending cuts that he's put forward during negotiations.
The president games out different scenarios of how he thinks the fiscal cliff negotiations will be resolved.
"The offers that I've made to [Republicans] have been so fair that a lot of Democrats get mad at me," he said, noting that his acceptance of Chained CPI, a measure that would change the way Social Security payments are determined, has caused particular rancor within his own party.
"Highly unpopular among Democrats," he said of the proposed change. "Not something supported by AARP. But in pursuit of strengthening Social Security for the long-term I'm willing to make those decisions."
If an impasse remains in place, Obama warned, Republicans' rejection of his version of deficit reduction plans would be enough to send financial markets skidding.
"What's been holding us back is the dysfunction here in Washington," he said. "And if people start seeing that on January 1st this problem still hasn't been solved, that we haven't seen the kind of deficit reduction that we could have had had the Republicans been willing to take the deal that I gave them, if they say that people's taxes have gone up, which means consumer spending is going to be depressed, then obviously that's going to have an adverse reaction in the markets."
In his statement, Boehner, R-Ohio, called Obama's comments "ironic," saying that "a recurring theme of our negotiations was his unwillingness to agree to anything that would require him to stand up to his own party. Needed cuts and reforms that the president agreed to just last year were no longer on the table, as he cited an inability to sell them to Democrats.
"In an effort to get the president to agree to cut spending -- which is the problem -- I put revenues on the table last year, and I put them on the table again last month. Republicans made every effort to reach the 'balanced' deficit agreement that the president promised the American people, while the president has continued to insist on a package skewed dramatically in favor of higher taxes that would destroy jobs. We've been reasonable and responsible. The president is the one who has never been able to get to 'yes.'"
NBC News' Frank Thorp contributed to this report.
What a bunch of campaign hogwash....all the responsibility for this mess falls on Congress and there is no acceptance of individual leadership and responsibility of the office of the President.....He really believes the sound of his own voice ....and no one tells him anything different.
DKWhite
SPOKEN LIKE A TRUE DITTO HEAD & IGNORANT FOX VIEWER
Still waiting for Obama'a plan to BALANCE THE BUDGET.
More dog & pony show, so it's over the cliff we go !!!
And you sir (And I use that term hesitantly) are nothing more than MSNBC Bot who simply cannot think for yourself and base all your analysis on the feelings in your heart ..... Words have meaning and without action The Presidents words will always ring shallow.
DKWhite
How many bills has the current 112th Congress passed? You'll be surprised. 196 bills!
Just 196 bills, easily the lowest total since the U.S. House Clerk's office started keeping track. Consider the progress in chart form, which should drive home just how unproductive the 112th Congress (2011-2012) really is. hERE you go. Learn something before you start making blasephmy.
http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/commentid-congress
Yes these Tea Bangers and the RepubliCons are the worst Congress since President Harry Truman's 80th Congress (1947-1948) "Do-Nothing Congress". Truman's 80th Congress (1947-1948) only passed 906 bills over its two-year period. The media should speak about the GOP/ Tea bangers being a wholly owned subsidiary of the ' government hating Kochtopus billionaire plutocrats corporate welfare recipients (hypocrites) intent on on destroying America.
The meme both parties are at fault is a fallacy. It is the republicans and the tea party the media should explicitly denote as not wanting to come together and have intentionally created the fiscal cliff .
It is the drunk John Boehnor and the turtle lookin Mr maggo , McConnel bloc
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=mitch+mcconnell+looks+like++mr+maggo&FORM=HDRSC2&view=detail&id=79CC395084EB97E3484DD60159AE102BBD0C67A2#
king progress!!
John Boehner and Tea-Publicans are guilty of legislative malpractice
If the only way government is going to accept spending cuts step on the throttle and lets go over the cliff.
Why do you want them to pass more bills? That just means they take more and more control of our life from us. More bills means more regulations, more rules and more silly laws that most likely won't be enforced.
I don't want them passing more and more bills. Congress should be a part time job. Let them work real jobs so they have an idea what it's like to be a regular person who has to deal with all the bills they pass. Passed bills = hoops to jump through = less productivity.
Let's go over the cliff then maybe some real reform can take place.
K I Smart Simple
I'm still waiting for the Republicans to 'denounce' their 'agreement' to not work with the President on anything. When will that be?
Please also tell the Republicans... If it was all about the economy:
"The numbers: Republicans have introduced 44 bills on abortion, 99 on religion, 71 on family relationships, 36 on marriage, 67 on firearms/gun control, 522 on taxation, 445 on ‘government investigations,’ and zero on job creation." http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/oct/25/facebook-posts/blog-post-says-gop-has-sponsored-zero-job-creation/
They might actually FOCUS on the economy..
DK... what have you been reading???? Even FOX news reports that Congress is 75% WRONG...
Obama is right on target.. Force the GOP to compromise or shoot themselves in the ..'you know where'
Did you see Ruth Westheim... comment... If GOP cant compromise, they are also poor lovers!!!!
I can't believe the pigorance of these GOP leaders. I mean...wow...can you freaking believe this? The middle class has shoudered much of the burden of the recession - from bailing out banks to suffering job losses for no fault of the middle class. Why can't the GOP controlled House of Scrooges ever wake up to the reality that the rich have to finally pay their share?
ItsAboutTime-3704531 - - - And what has the Senate Done? Nothing A bill cannot go to a joint committee until the Senate actually passes its version.
LOVE it Ruth
The famous sex therapist Dr. Ruth Westheimer hit below the belt, noting on Twitter that "Members of Congress who can't compromise probably aren't good lovers."
And so say all of us!!!!!!!!!!
K I Smart Simple
and what can the Senate really do, when the HOUSE republicans agree to not work with the President on anything? Hmmm. Also, show me one bill the republicans introduced in the senate that was not laced with an attack on our civil rights.
Both Parties need to compromise, but so far.. all I see the republicans wanting to do, is cut programs (SS/Medicare) that I and many other Americans contribute too. They are not entitlements.
the administration is playing chicken with congress;
cut cola for social security, do not cut cola for atdc, food stamps, welfare payments.
no real spending cuts, expand government bureaucracies.
expain ethanol to 15%, no car older than one year old can use it.
stop drilling on federal lands, permits at all time low
tax the rich, even though it will make no real deference in the deficit.
we are going over the cliff, hold on it is going to be a hell of a ride.
It's all about power politics. Dems want to split the Repub party so they can win elections for decades in the future.
Over the cliff we go!!
Hit the cliff.
If he has to pay for it, maybe then the voter will finally give pause at the voting booth to consider the garbage he's voting for.
GOP just don't get it. They lost the election, big time. If they don't cut a deal they will take one in the shorts. Obama knows this and won't let them off the hook. Who's bowing for who now? Give em hell Obama. The 'cliff' is simply a return to Clinton era economics and having a surplus instead of a deficit isn't such a bad thing. All the 'growth' we stand to lose is just a house of cards built on bull@!$%# and lies anyway.
The Senate passed a bill back in July that would have allowed the tax cuts to continue on the first $250k of income for everyone in the US and thereby avoiding this part of the fiscal cliff. Instead, the Congress refused to pass the bill because they want the tax cuts to continue on all income.
Sadly, the GOP can't compromise because they are rich lovers, not poor lovers.
Our Corporate Masters have spoken!Now everybody buckle your seatbelts because the ride is going to get a little bumpier for the 98% so the 2% can keep piling up their gold. Amazingly pompous arseholes on BOTH sides of the aisle...
Of course Mr. President, that has been their agenda since January 20, 2009, to obstruct anything you attempt to do, in the name of their BIG business bosses. The same crew of obstructionists who came together on January 20, 2009, are the same crew in charge of driving the bus off the cliff, i.e., especially McConnell, he swore up and down he would make you a "one-term" President, he lost that so now he's on a mission in his "other" attempt to destroy you by claiming all of this is your fault. Here's the rest of the obstructionist list that's on board in their attempt to destroy you. Keep your friends close, yours enemies closer:
Frank Luntz (Rush Limbaugh CLONE) - GOP Minister of Propaganda, Republican Party strategist, who orchestrated a 2009 meeting where prominent Republicans, including Paul Ryan, formulated a plan to gain control of congress and The White House.
Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI)
Rep. Eric Cantor (R-VA)
Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-CA),
Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX),
Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R-TX),
Rep. Pete Hoekstra (R-MI)
Rep. Dan Lungren (R-CA),
Sen. Jim DeMint (SC-R),
Sen. Jon Kyl (AZ-R),
Sen. Tom Coburn (OK-R),
Sen. John Ensign (NV-R) and
Sen. Bob Corker (TN-R).
The problem is these boys above work for BIG business capitalist, not for those dumb 47%ers who put them in office. They talk praise of capitalism and America, but let me tell you something, in America, capitalism is no more than politicians working with top echelon corporations, white collar criminals, to screw me and you too death.
HOGWASH ? You call what our President wants to do for our Country and for 98% of our citizens Hogwash. Grow up. No compassion for anyone not as important as you perceive yourself to be.. The he!! with the poor, let them eat cake. Thank God your party was massacred in the election. I can't imagine the mess this Country would be in if Willard had won. Scary. But your obviously a poor loser along with your GOP Congressional friends. So Sad. Too Bad. Come 2014 all your WACKO Congressmen will be gone, and good riddance.
This is not just shameful, it's really criminal. The ReThugs are no better than a gang who delights in blowing things up no matter who they hurt. And in this case, they are hurting most people except their donors, buddies, banks & corporations--those people who would just hire a lawyer to make sure that they'd pay less than zero on taxes no matter what the rate is.
Let's keep this recession going! Let's ensure that those retired people on pensions invested in the markets get less money while their expenses double.
Yeah VinnieSattine - - I looked up the Middle Class Tax Cut Act bill in the Senate, it extended the 250,000 and below tax rates ONLY thru 2013. It only attempted to solve a small part of the overall problem.
Wounder just who is missing the real point here ????
The Pubs want to cut social programs and keep the bush tax cuts for the top 1%. The DEMs want to raise taxes on the top 1% and cut the defense budget ( because that is where a lot of the fat is ). Now the only way out for each side to save face is to allow the auto cuts in spending and tax increase to take place, is to go over the cliff. Each side saves face with it's masters ( pacs, lobbyists, & special interest groups ). Congress will not publicly bite the hand that feeds them. So the deal was cut some time ago , behind closed doors ( so no one knows who caved it to whom ). Also the defense dept. just sighed contracts for F-35 air craft they don't need along with a submarine contract . That is not even on the drawing boards yet. ( An end run around the cuts in the defense budget that are cumming soon ) Now do you get it ???
I don't believe either side has bragging rights for promoting the best solution to these very real issues.
The Republican Party, in particular their Tea-Party Assault troops, seem to feel they are fighting some holy war against rescinding any part of the Bush-era, "temporary" tax cuts. Their solution: to hold the line on any tax increases while instituting draconian cuts to public programs, is not in keeping with what the majority of the voting public wants, or will accept.
The Democratic Party attaches almost equally mystic importance to raising taxes on the the richest, highest earning Americans, and are willing to concede some grudging cuts in various budget items.
Neither solution will fix the problem of ballooning deficits.
What is needed is the complete repeal of all the Bush-era tax cuts, coupled with serious, but sensible budget cuts to multiple budgetary items, including the military and some of the cherished, sacred-cow public programs. Those doubting this should keep in mind that repealing these tax cuts would only mean a return to the tax rates of the mid-1990s, a period prolonged economic growth, and one in which our nation came the closest it has been to a truly balanced budget since the late 1950s.
What will happen [probably] is that we will go over the fabled fiscal cliff at year end, and following that, a muddy compromise will be reached, which will entail the repeal of the Bush-era tax cuts for the rich and some budget cuts. It will save the political skin of multiple empty-suit politicians in Washington D.C.. It will be a tactical victory for the Democrats and [perhaps] an ideological victory for the Republicans.
It will not solve the problem.
Before I forget again.
Have a HAPPY, SAFE, & HEALTHY NEW YEAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!
BOB
Being on a vendetta against the wealthiest Americans is just the latest violation of the presidents oath to uphold the Constitution. Singling out one segment of society and taking their property is a clear violation of equal protection under the law. Which the tax code is already in violation of.
The current tax rates in the US
"If" the "rich" are not paying their fair share, it has nothing to do with these tax rates. It may have to do with loopholes and deductions which could be eliminated. But when someone earning $70,000 pays around ten thousand in taxes(I am in that group) and a million maker pays over $300,000, they are clearly paying more by percentage and in total.
The President is not helping anyone with a blind view of class warfare. A truly compromising, non-partisan President would suggest a bill whereas rates on all income levels were increased 1% per annum until the bush tax cuts were gone, along with closing loopholes. The problem with that is that when government gives something to the people, it is almost impossible to take it back for fear of blowback.
What a mess, it's time both sides put the interests of America ahead of the interests of the lobby and special interests that donate to their campaign funds. Over the cliff we will go. Obama won, but not by a landslide, although this is an oxymoron we need a lot more WISDOM in WASHINGTON. We need fresh blood from both sides incumbent or not. I know it's just a pipe dream. More than anything we the people need to bury the hatchet and unify. I have friends on both sides of the aisle, we can compromise and find middle ground on most things, but when politics come up, it polarizes people and the ability to compromise goes out the window.
Its not about how many bills or legislation is introduced or passed, its about meaningful bills and legislation that actually accomplish something, otherwise it is useless paperwork and more red tape.
These posts reflect standard partisan hogwash. Two of the panelists, on Meet the Press, hit the nail on the head.
Brokaw observed that 75% of the House comes from gerrymandered districts. Those Representatives are venal, self-centered jerks who couldn't care less about the welfare of this country. They are all about themselves AND being re-elected. Yeah, it's really that bad. All they have to do is cater to their brain-dead, ideologically driven constituents who don't have a clue how a government must fund itself and pay its bills.
Brooks was absolutely correct in calling out the whining liars of my generation who shed crocodile tears for our children and grandchildren, all the while increasing our benefits and standing by as the deficits and debt increased.
The problem in this country is that we're fundamentally dishonest, and more sickeningly, we lie to ourselves.
The problem is, the very same rich who do not want their taxes increased are the very SAME ones who don't want the defense budget cut.
Get it now? Keep my money through tax cuts, and make more money selling defense/military products!
"If" the "rich" are not paying their fair share, it has nothing to do with these tax rates. It may have to do with loopholes and deductions which could be eliminated."
The vast majority of members of Congress/Senate are attorneys, surely you don't wonder why? Loopholes are their way of life, from taxes to tort, THEY make the laws, do you think they will cut their own throats?
Obama is a guy who originally agreed to a Grand Bargain that contained $800B in tax hikes and $3.2T in spending cuts, then at the last minute demanded 50% more in taxes and walked away from the agreement that he himself had negotiated. That original deal that he agreed to has stayed on the table this whole time but 18 months later he came back with an "offer" DOUBLING the tax hikes to $1.6T with virtually no net spending cuts almost completely erasing the $3.2T in cuts he had agreed to. He has since moved, but his most recent proposal has taxes 50% over what he originally agreed to, but with INCREASED SPENDING.
This guy is NOT SERIOUS about the fiscal peril he has driven our nation to and he's a disingenuous a-hole for trying to deflect the blame to others for there being no agreement.
Want to see what the real problem is? Since 1970 we've increased per person taxation in real 2012 dollars by 33%. The real problem is that we've doubled per person spending in real 1012 dollar in that time.
No Beverly
IF the Left was actually intellectually honest you would know that raising taxes on the Rich actually HURTS, not help the situation.
All you need is the BLS month by month unemployment statistics, historic IRS tax tables for each year, the Date the laws were signed, and when the business/tax cycle actually feels the effect. Using the GDP is not a good indicator, because of the effects of inflation and strength of the dollar. You must also understand that the effects of a tax policy change take up to 18 months to take effect.
In the Bill Clinton Rich Tax is a huge example of the left wing intellectual dishonesty.
Bill Clinton received an improving economy with a steadily decreasing unemployment. Unemployment had peaked at 7.8% in June of 1992 and began a steady decline, while Bill had not been even nominated yet.
When he signed his "modest" tax increase was in August of 1993. It raised taxes for anyone making over $89,000. That is quarterly taxpayers. They typically don't pay the increases until either the last quarterly payment (Jan 1994) or April 15, 1994 of that year. Unemployment stopped declining at 6.1% from May to July of 1994, Then dropped to 5.4% in Feb of 2005, then climbed to 5.8% and stayed between 5.5% and 5.7% for 15 months straight. The GDP also slowed to a 3% growth rate at the same time.
After the Republicans got control of Congress, they reinstituted the Reagan tax bracket indexed for inflation. Once again the effect did not kick in until April of 2006 and guess waht? The unemployment started to decline. The GDP also started growing. The real growth took place in August 1997, when the Capital gains was decreased from 28% to 20%.
The left likes to say the tax increase spurred the economy, when the reverse is actually true. But don't let that get in the way of the envy.
Original headline: "Obama: GOP's insistence on halting tax hikes for the wealthy is stopping fiscal cliff deal"
Rewritten headline: "Boehner: Dem's insistence on tax hikes for the wealthy and no spending cuts is stopping fiscal cliff deal"
What's the difference? Point of view. Both sides are culpable; at least the republican's have the nation's interest at heart in insisting on spending cuts. No one can argue that raising taxes on the productive class raises anywhere near enough money. The issue is spending. Where is the discussion regarding that?
Should read "2012 dollars in that same time."
Until Obama and his cronies put at least a 10% SPENDING CUT IN THE FIRST YEAR ALONE the republicans in Congress need to tell him no deal.
This loading cuts at the end of a 10-year period never works as they never actually take place.
By the way, any department head that can't find 10% to cut in waste alone doesn't deserve to keep his cushy job either - another small savings.
Republicans should let the Dems have it and then make them own the consequences.
100% of the fiscal cliff is the responsibility of the VOTING PUBLIC
When you all get a pay cut for re-electing incumbents who don't negotiate, you'll get a pity party for that price and a little badge where you can write someone else's name to blame on it (Congress, the President, etc.)
I'm with you all on this one. I get to pay too.
But I am looking forward to losing my money. And even more importantly, SO looking forward to one-party voters losing theirs too.
PLEASE GO OVER THE FISCAL CLIFF. DO WHAT THE VOTERS WANT. GIVE US LESS MONEY!
Republicans pledged their loyalty to King Norquist never to raise taxes on the rich.
Republicans met the night President Obama took office and pledged against America just to make America fail in recovering from the depression caused by republicons, banksters, and wallstreeters.
Republicans slowed the recovery down deliberately to make it appear President Obama failed.
Americans saw these actions and relected President Obama so the AMERICAN PEOPLE can recover from the depression of the economy, so the nation can recover and move forward.
Republicons only want the rich to get richer at the cost of the middleclass, the elderly, the young, and the poor.
President Obama ROCKS!
John, I appreciate your effort to Google those tax rates, but you just wasted your time. No one in the United States pays those tax rates. No one. Those rates are meaningless because of all the loopholes and deductions that get applied to adjust people's taxable incomes before your tax rate scale kicks in. Also, those deductions get steeper for the upper income level brackets. How else did Mitt Romney get to pay as little as he did on millions of dollars of income? The entire tax system is a joke and everyone knows it.
You seriously need to start reading peoples' complete posts before commenting on them. Just sayin'.
Me:)
Unless I am mistaken, I did state that the loopholes and deductions could be changed or removed. And actually, I do pay those rates. Personally, I believe we should have a flat tax with no deductions. Deductions are simply lobbyists doing their jobs.
Romney pays at the 15% rate because he had no earned income. It all came from investments that are taxed at 15%. And all of Congress made those the going rates. I wonder why?
I say....Lets go off the cliff. It's the only way to make govt stop spending. Hit the debt ceiling as well. People just don't get it. It's a spending problem. Congress spends money like diarrhea spends pooop.
Tax increases are part of the solution, but they are NOT the answer. And, these liberals screaming "tax the rich" are such losers.
Do you know why the poor & grandma's social security are in jeopardy? It's because Congress can't stop spending.
You know who else can't stop spending...the middle class & poor. A girl at my work is spending $112 per month for a cell phone plan. How dumb is that? Can't shut up or must have internet on the go or texting people. And their conversations are the most idiotic in history. My cell phone bill is $6 per month and my minutes are backed up because I never use it except in real need.
The middle class and poor could really help themselves if they wanted to, but no...they whine...govt is their god. Save me...save me....I don't want to do anything for myself. Bunch of losers. Americans have gotten as whiney as three year olds. Instead of being jealous of the rich, start your own business and become rich. Oh, that's right, it would require you to get off you rear ends, stop watching the Kardashians, and actually do something with your lives.
Wrong DK.
President Obama HAS accepted responsibility. It is the "party of personal responsibility" that continues to deny Bush's complicity in our Great Recession.
The President has tried to kick the football that Boehner keeps yanking away, but to no avail.
The Republic Party knows it is on the way out. It knows it has to Gerrymander districts, suppress voters, lie, and fix voting machines to win. It is a party struggling for acceptance; hell,......for existence. It is sucking wind, and will need to get more and more desperate to win. Eventually their overreach will lay bear their desperation as the embarrassment it is. Pubbies are painful to watch today aren't they?
Beverly in Chicago
all of your posts are "spoken" like a true liberal socialist Barry Odopehead azz kisser -
now that that is settled , you should maybe do a little "community organizing" in that cesspool state of Illinois , 500 murders in Chicago alone this year , Illinois , the azz boil of the country
The blame falls on all of the buffoons in Washington, from Obammie to Boner ....... they should join hands and jump off the cliff together and please take Pelosi with you, if you can drag her out from under Obammie's desk ...!
Another 4 years of nothing ...... terrorists don't have to try and take us down, we're doing a fine job of it ourselves! PITIFUL ...!
Just a sample of what is sitting on Harry Reid's Desk.... Tell me again who is Holding up the gov't?
Empowering Small Business Owners and Reducing Regulatory Burdens
H.R. 872, the Reducing Regulatory Burdens Act
• Introduced by Rep. Bob Gibbs (OH) on March 2, 2011
• Passed the House by a vote of 292-130 on March 31, 2011
• Senate has taken no action to date
H.R. 910, the Energy Tax Prevention Act
• Introduced by Rep. Fred Upton (MI) on March 3, 2011
• Passed the House by a vote of 255-172 on April 7, 2011
• Senate has taken no action to date
H.R. 37, a Resolution of disapproval regarding the FCC’s regulation of the Internet and broadband industry practices
• Introduced by Rep. Greg Walden (OR) on February 16, 2011
• Passed the House by a vote of 240 to 179 on April 8, 2011
• Senate has taken no action to date
H.R. 2018, the Clean Water Cooperative Federalism Act
• Introduced by Rep. John Mica (FL) on May 26, 2011
• Passed the House by a vote of 239 to 184 on July 13, 2011
• Senate has taken no action to date
H.R. 1315, Consumer Financial Protection & Soundness Improvement Act
• Introduced by Rep. Sean Duffy (WI) on April 1, 2011
• Passed the House by a vote of 241-173 on July 21, 2011
• Senate has taken no action to date
H.R. 2587, Protecting Jobs From Government Interference Act
• Introduced by Rep. Tim Scott (SC) on July 19, 2011
• Passed the House by a vote of 238-186 on September 15, 2011
• Senate has taken no action to date
H.R. 2401, Transparency In Regulatory Analysis Of Impacts On The Nation
• Introduced by Rep. John Sullivan (OK) on June 24, 2011
• Passed the House by a vote of 249-169 on September 23, 2011
• Senate has taken no action to date
H.R. 2681, Cement Sector Regulatory Relief Act
• Introduced by Rep. John Sullivan (OK) on July 28, 2011
• Passed the House by a vote of 262-161 on October 6, 2011
• Senate has taken no action to date
H.R. 2250, EPA Regulatory Relief Act
• Introduced by Rep. Morgan Griffith (VA) on June 21, 2011
• Passed the House by a vote of 275-142 on October 13, 2011
• Senate has taken no action to date
H.R. 2273, Coal Residuals Reuse and Management Act
• Introduced by Rep. David McKinley (WV) on June 22, 2011
• Passed the House by a vote of 276-144 on October 14, 2011
• Senate has taken no action to date
Fix The Tax Code To Help Job Creators:
H.R. 674, 3% Withholding Rule Repeal
• Introduced by Rep. Wally Herger (CA) on February 11, 2011
• Passed the House by a vote of 405-16 on October 27, 2011
• Senate has taken no action to date
Increase Competitiveness for U.S. Manufacturers:
H.R. 1904, Southeast Arizona Resource Utilization & Conservation Act
• Introduced by Rep. Paul Gosar (AZ) on May 13, 2011
• Passed the House by a vote of 235-186 on October 26, 2011
• Senate has taken no action to date
Encourage Entrepreneurship and Growth:
H.R. 2433, Veterans Opportunity to Work Act
• Introduced by Rep. Jeff Miller (FL) on July 7, 2011
• Passed the House by a vote of 418-6 on October 12, 2011
• Senate has taken no action to date
Maximize Domestic Energy Production To Ensure An Energy Policy For The Twenty-First Century:
H.R. 1230, Restarting American Offshore Leasing Now Act
• Introduced by Rep. Doc Hastings (WA) on March 29, 2011
• Passed the House by a vote of 266-149 on May 5, 2011
• Senate has taken no action to date
H.R. 1229, Putting the Gulf of Mexico Back to Work Act
• Introduced by Rep. Doc Hastings (WA) on March 29, 2011
• Passed the House by a vote of 263-163 on May 11, 2011
• Senate has taken no action to date
H.R. 1231, Reversing President Obama’s Offshore Moratorium Act
• Introduced by Rep. Doc Hastings (WA) on March 29, 2011
• Passed the House by a vote of 243-179 on May 12, 2011
• Senate has taken no action to date
H.R. 2021, the Jobs and Energy Permitting Act
• Introduced by Rep. Cory Gardner (CO) on May 26, 2011
• Passed the House by a vote of 255-166 on June 22, 2011
• Senate has taken no action to date
H.R. 1938, North American-Made Energy Security Act
• Introduced by Rep. Terry Lee (NE) on May 23, 2011
• Passed the House by a vote of 279-147 on July 26, 2011
• Senate has taken no action to date
The ultimate 'it's someone else's fault' - Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Carter, Lincoln, Adams, Washington, congress, tsunami, Sandy, whites, wall-street, rich, non-unions. The list goes on. He has re-written the book on excuses.
This guy is never to blame. He has done nothing except whine and spend, and it is always the fault of others. If he had a single ounce of leadership, all this could be solved. Whine, whine, whine.
You libs got what you deserved. Unfortunately, the rest of us also got what you deserved. So sad for this country. There is just not enough money in the tax base to offset his spending (regardless of how much he wants to raise them). With his stupid spend, spend policies, we may never recover.
Nobody posting here deserves more money.
In fact, they deserves less.
Obama would love to go over the cliff, he then has some one to blame when the whole country falls apart. Obama needs to have someone other than himself to point to when all of you start bitching you have no money, cost of living has gone through the roof. All Obama will say to you is, will if the GOP would have passed the bill in the house we would not be here today. All you Obama lovers who can't think for your self will post and write the same. In 1776 they signed a document that freed us from one man rule all of you that voted in Nov. are allowing us to be ruled by one man again. This is our country not Obama's if you side with Obama your siding with one man rules a nation. It sad that a nation of smart people are taken over by the uneducated, uninformed group of Obama followers starsailing above is a good example of this. Obama wants the debt limit done away with so he can spend as much as he see fit and when the rich have no more, he will come to the middle class and take there's. One mans rule AS OBAMA HAS SAID BEFORE "IT MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY" you have no place to go people take back this country it not to late.
Times running out:
Virtually all of the bills you listed seem to be a wish list for businesses.
Got anything in there for P-E-O-P-L-E ?
Human beings don't seem to be a priority for a party of fascists do they?
starsailing
Where on this does it say for "rich" people? It was done for accountability, and for all Americans.
http://www.atr.org/userfiles/Congressional_pledge(1).pdf
GOPisextinct
You may hate businesses because for whatever reason you don't own one, but when businesses can flourish in the proper business environment, they hire and increase the standard of living for all Americans. This "us" against "them" mentality gets "US" nowhere.
If you listen to certain right wingers, they love to use the term "class warfare", claiming the left is practicing it. I submit to you that "class warfare" is actually what the rich have been doing TO US for the past 30 years. A few examples off the top of my head.
The owners of Walmart, the Walton family, are worth over $100 billion but Walmarts pay and benefits are so low that they have employees that still need medicare and food stamps to survive. So as taxpayers we end up making the Walton family $10 billion richer each year by subsidizing the working poor.
The NFL makes over 8 billion $ a year yet the NFL owners locked out the refs because the refs would not concede their pension plans.
The NFL commissioner actually had a press conference where he stated with a straight face "hey, I don't have a pension plan". Yeah but he neglected to tell the reporters that his salary is $10 million a year as compared to the NFL refs $140,000 a year.
Caterpillar, Con Edison and Verizon are all profitable companies with CEO's that make up to $23 million a year. The fact that they are profitable, healthy companies did not stop the CEO's from trying to take away the employees pensions and reducing other important benefits in their most recent contract negotiations.. In the case of Caterpillar, the employees had to accept a 6 year pay freeze and a pension freeze. In the case of Con Edison, the CEO actually locked the employees out and immediately cancelled their health care coverage!
If you ask alot of CEO's why they feel the need to take things away from workers they will tell you they need to compete in a global marketplace where a worker in China is willing to do the job for $5 a day but he won't tell you that there are safety nets needed outside that building in China to stop those same slave workers from commiting suicide. They also don't tell you that in other countries like Japan, the CEO only makes 15x the salary of an average worker, while here in the USA, through the incestuous board of directors/CEO relationship, the CEO may make 300x what an average worker makes!
The banksters have been bending the public over for many years but, still not satisfied with their outrageous profits, they came up with some really risky financial products that almost bankrupted the whole country a few years ago and required us taxpayers to bail them out. Let me ask you, has anybody gone to jail for that? Not only did almost nobody go to jail, but they didn't even lose their jobs and kept their million dollar bonuses too! Let me also ask you, did anyone learn a lesson from it or are they still doing the same exact things?
The Republican candidate for president was Mitt Romney, who claimed to be a great businessman, The truth is, as Newt Gingrich and Rick Perry correctly pointed out, that Mitt was a just a corporate raider who had no problem loading companies with debt. paying Bain outrageous fees, busting the company, and then stealing pension fund money and other assets. To top it off, the guy has Swiss and Cayman Island bank accounts to shelter income and would not release his tax returns.
You'd think after the drubbing they got in the last election the Republicans would get the idea that they need to stop being the paid lapdogs of corporations and billionaires and try representing the masses, but it doesn't look like they got the message.
GOPsomethingstupid
jobs and and business ARE for the "people" , a job helps you helps yourself , but of course one has to be interested in helping ones self instead of sucking the government nipple , your posts would indicate that you are of the nipple sucking crowd ergo you wouldn't understand how business helps "people"
The budget will not be balanced by this president. It can't be done. It took 8 years of Bush borrowing unimaginable amounts of money to fund his wars and make his buddies rich to get us into this mess. However, if we do go over the cliff we'll make great strides towards balancing the budget, because the rich will get slapped silly on all sorts of taxes and the rich will go broke when their government contracts are cut and the markets crash. So the Republicans actually have no bargaining position. Do they want to pay their fair share or do they want to get slapped silly? Those are their choices, the ones they agreed to a year and a half ago when they held our country's credit rating hostage demanding that the Bush Tax Cuts for the Wealthy be extended again. Well boys, the party's over. Now pay up. As a lower middle-class tax payer my taxes will go up. I'll survive. We'll lose jobs. We've gotten used to that since Bush raked us over the coals in 2008. We'll survive. Bring on the fiscal cliff. It will be fun to see how the rich like going broke and losing their incomes and their homes. Bring it on. The middle-class needs a good laugh. I look forward to the suicides.
DKWhite, I am not sure where or how you concocted the notion the president formulates the budget. The last time I checked Congress formulates a budget proposal, it moves to Senate to be discussed, modified, voted on and reviewed by Congress for approval. If approved the budget proposal moves to the president for review and if the proposed budget works for the majority and not the minority then he/she signs off on it. The president has let it be known what he wants in the budget according to his campaign platform and is holding to his promise. This is a first for any president to consider the middle class in decades but Boner and Mitch Magoo have not been able to deliver anything due to a chasm of division in their party. Not to mention Magoo has declared long ago the President Obama would be a one term president but did not get his wish through his divisive leadership in Senate and Boner's lack of leadership in Congress. And you want to blame the President? Please elaborate on how you can fairly make this statement unless you have a problem with the wealthy paying their fair share to dig us out of the wars, the Military Industrial Complex machine, Wall Street fiasco and the banking industry failure that they all made money from and increased their wealth.
By the way we, the middle class, paid for the banking and Wall Street designed failure, so we do deserve a tax break and let the uber wealthy pay back some of the money they made from this financial failure. The top down tax law has been a total failure or we would have more jobs than could be filled. I propose it is the wealthy, greedy politicians and one of the stupidest presidents in the history of this country that have caused this great recession.
There are two ways to generate the extra revenue needed while we wait for economic growth to pick up. One is to increase tax rates on a small portion of the population that already pays the lions share of the national tax burden. The other is to cleanup loopholes and reduce deductions (phase out based on income levels). They both can get you to the same place. The republicans have already offered the latter because they belive it would be less harmful to the economy and is overdue. Obama has stubbornly insisted in the former which only serves to intinsify class warfare as evidenced by the comments left here.
To GOPisextinct.....
This country is (not too slowly) being divided (and conquered) by an Ideological President with his
own personal agenda---sadly has not much to do with "the people".
You refer to the "list of bills".....being about businesses.....and not the people.
Businessess must flourish or there are No Jobs...A ruined economy...a tiny GDP....we can't all
be on the Government payroll as do-nothings, directed by a Washington demonic robot.
However, guess the picture at present is pretty clear goiing forward isn't it? The anti business---
all Governement---well, Russia...Germany....Cuba....and the European tyrants all tried---check out
that history, please!
A point made by the president is being missed here. After all this conservative talk about how important it is to reduce the deficit, it is the President and Democrats who are having to fight for real deficit reduction. Obama is clear - he is willing to cut social security payments (see comment on indexing) and raise taxes. That is reducing spending and increasing revenue. That is deficit reduction.
The GOP is fighting against deficit reduction! I don't understand how all the conservatives who love to talk about how big and terrible the deficit has been these last 4 years, are now fighting with their last ounce of political capital to keep the deficit as big as possible.
My conclusion is still this - the GOP is afraid that Obama is right, and an Obama deal will lead to prosperity and show the public, yet again, that America does better under Democratic policies. The GOP would ratehr sabotage the economy than risk political embarassment. That is politics at its worse; that is the modern Republican party. Shame on them, shame on all conservatives who are hypocritically turning their backs on deficit reduction, and doing the right thing for country first.
alwtx - don't drink so much kool-aid. The president is not anti-business. He actually has strong business community support for his fiscal cliff resolution. Don't forget that the stock market had its best two years ever under Obama, and corporate profits are at an all-time high. The business community loves Obama, Obama is pro-business, and anyone who says otherwise is trying to fool you or is himself fooled.
Mark in Kansas: the deduction elimination may be a good idea (although eliminating mortgage deduction would really hurt the housing market), but it is far to vague and unformulated for a current solution. We can change a simple rate easily, but re-write the whole tax code by January 1??? It is just a meaningless delaying tactic. Changing deductions would be as hard as passing a health care law, and as devestating to political careers. The reality is that Obama is offering the only common sense approach.
It could be equally said that Obama's insistence on a 13%+ increase in taxes on the 'rich' is standing in the way of preventing our going off the 'fiscal cliff' and hurting the Middle Class.
Personally, I think both sides need to COMPROMISE. The Republicans need to allow tax increases, but Obama needs to allow EQUIVALENT spending cuts.
Obama previously claimed that he would accept $3 of spending cuts for every $1 increase in tax increases - Now he wants big tax increases but NO SPENDING CUTS.
If we have equal tax increases AND spending cuts, we get double the Deficit reduction from just one side giving in.
Let's stop playing the 'blame game' and REALLY COMPROMISE.
Obama won the Presidency with 51% of the vote, but the Republicans won the House (by an even bigger margin) with 54% of the seats. NOBODY has a 'mandate' to have everything 'their way'.
truedat-3874449
If that was directed at me, here you go.
I am not republican, however, I am fiscally conservative.
You list businesses. If you would like to address business ethics that is understandable and required if we pay the bills for them. However, the president is attacking "people" who earn over a certain amount.
I would argue there is a difference between holding businesses accountable for their ethics and singling out a particular group of people just because they are successful. This is America, correct? What is the point of trying to attain the "American Dream" when the masses are allowed to change the rules and take it away.
Wow, Republicans expect a lot more from a democratic president then they do from republicans. Where was Bush's plan to balance the budget? Oh that's right he never tried. They don't want Obama to lower the deficit but eliminate it. Sorry but Bush took a 300 billion dollar surplus and produced a deficit never lower than 450 billion with a high for his Oct. 2008 budget hitting 1.2 trillion. Since Obama still has to fund all the unfunded Bush boondoggles like the 100 billion a year drug plan, unfunded wars and cutting revenue 400 billion a year it will take some time for democrats to straighten things out.
k i not so smart but very simple...........
the reason the bills haven't been passed in the senate might have something to do with 386 republican filibusters.
No one ever asked Bush or Romney about a balanced budget. Romneys plan to cut revenue 500 billion while increasing military spending 200 billion wouldn't have done anything except explode the deficit. Romneys plan of cutting 50 billion a year from social programs wouldn't have paid for 1/4 his increased spending and even that's ignoring Romneys proposed new space program. Why don't republicans ever show concern for debt except when a democrats president?
O'Bama is a TOTAL FAILURE AS PRESIDENT AND A WASTE OF AIR!! He fails to mention that he and the Democrats had INCREASED SPENDING 10 FOLD in the last 4 years. The Democrats had the majority for over 6 years before the Republicans got the House Majority. They fail to mention that when O'Bama complains about prior Presidents spending, the Democrats "Supported" that spending and added to the amount.
O'Bama has to stop with the Campaign Speeches and start being Presidential. He is the one that is telling everyone, Democrats and Republicans alike, this is what I demand and I will take no less. With his attitude and Socialist Policies I am looking to getting another "Holiday" before the next 4 years are completed. One can not encourage "Class Warfare" and a "divide conquer strategy" without suffering the consequences of those actions.
"President" Obama does not give one big damn about solving this problem because he can very easily do so if desires. His aim is to do as much damage to the Republican party as he possibly can. He has Reid in the Senate and Piglosi in the House and that is all that matters.
He will continue to spend us to oblivion, court the unions and spend what is necessary to insure the black and Mexican vote. His next big step will be legalization of the illegals to cement his "rule" and , mark my words, have Michelle nominated, and elected to the next presidency of what will be left of our once great Country.
Our government of the people, by the people and for the people has vanished from the earth.
Obama has flip-flopped several times already. The GOP offered what Obama stated in his campaign and he turned it down after he changed his mind. It is his way or the Highway apparently. He is not a leader by any means, just another power hungry politician that plays the blame game.
Oh by the way, while we "Americans" are hoping the economy turns around with sound leadership, spending cuts and tax reform, Obama decided he would lift the ban on government pay raises! Yes thats right, a pay raise with your tax money. Lets see how quickly they vote that bill through!
They are bickering over a very small amount of money. Come on Mr. President LEAD!!!
Balance must be reached. Two-thirds of businesses pay no taxes in this country. "S" Corporations are supposed to be comprised of small companies, yet corporate behemoths like Bechtel classify themselves as such to avoid taxation. The corporate tax breaks and write offs is a list that extends to infinity. In 1980 corporations shouldered 35% of this nation's tax burden. Now? Now they contribute only 10%,.....and want even that lowered.
There is only one mission for a corporation: profit.
Most of the time people are forgotten in the equation.
There is no shortage of Pubbies to suck the toes of business, and advantage them.
Through it all, just remember the first three words of our nations Constitution for a clue as to who our government was established to benefit:
"WE THE PEOPLE......"
We are borrowing nearly $2 million every minute in this country and the rest of the world understands how unsustainable our debt is so have stopped lending us money. Do you know how we are BORROWING this $2 million a minute? We are printing the money. That's right - the Federal Reserve is now printing $85 BILLION every month then buying Treasury Bills (aka we are printing money then lending to ourselves). Can you say "massive inflation in the near future" due to our irresponsible Federal Reserve policies?
So we are BORROWING $85 Billion a month but these "taxes" on just the rich will only bring in (at most) $50 Billion a YEAR!! So these tax increases won't even cover the borrowing for one month. In fact when you look at what we SPEND (not borrow but spend) these "tax the rich" policies that Obama wants won't even cover government spending for 13 days.
In other words this does NOTHING to remotely fix the problem of our deficit or debt. This is simply a political slap in the face that Obama wants. This is not a solution. Obama is not a leader. A leader identifies a problem and comes up with a solution to fix it. This does nothing. We have been arguing for over a year for a tax only on the "rich" that is, relatively speaking, like talking about cutting out a trip to Red Lobster once a year for the typical family. It does nothing.
So since Obama and the Democrats won't do anything the only solution is the let the sequester take place. Significant cuts in all government programs (including Defense) AND tax increases on everybody. You see the ONLY way to get the uninformed and unintelligent Obama voter to understand the damage this government is doing is to let them FEEL the damage also. If YOUR taxes go up then maybe JUST MAYBE you might start to understand the damage of an out of control government too.
More drivel from the mouth of the incompetent fraud squatting in the white house. You could just as easily say Obama is the one demanding tax hikes on those so-called wealthy, hikes that would bring only a pittance is the roadblock to a fiscal deal.
He insists on a hike for the rich that would generate enough revenue to run the country for perhaps a week or so at the expense of 98% of the country. Irrational much?
DMAN
thank you for finally saying what the zealots on this blog (both sides) wont see
Beverly in Chicago Comment collapsed by the community
And you actually think that's a BAD thing????? The @!$%#ing Federal Register is 813,000 pages long now how much more government do you want? Are you waiting with baited breath for the day when Uncle Sam can shove his hand up your ass and work you like a sock puppet? Well then good news, that day seems to be not too far off.
Only a @!$%#ing progressive who lacks the ability and desire to think for themselves would measure the success of Congress by how much larger they've made the government. Truly sad and pathetic!
GOPisectincy.... I am a business a small business owner and can tell you I pay a hell of a lot of taxes. Your statement that 2/3 of businesses pay nop taxes is a bunch of BS not at all supported by IRS numbers. If you want to make a statement like that then at least know the facts. Beverly get a clue! You all think the big bad rich person or small busines owner should pay your way through life. BS.
You want companies to create jobs and pay their employees well. Do any of you have any idea how much government regulation alone adds to the cost of hiring a employee? My guess is you have no clue. I also have a news flash for all of you backseat liberals. Every business is in business to make a profit. If they weren't they would not be in business. hence the 250,000 level the president has marked has rich people is total stupidity. Even Warren Buffet the man the President loves to quote says it should be a $1,000,000 or more to keep from hurting the economy and small business.
Too many people want government to give them everything. That is why we are in such serious debt. Any idiot that can do the math will see simply taxing rich people does nothing. Everyone will have to pay more taxes. Thats the simple truth whether you want to hear it or not.
Bottom line is both sides of the aisle must compromise to get the country back on track.
GOPisextinct: You know if you are going to type a comment it just MIGHT be a good idea to research first otherwise you look unintelligent claiming something that just isn't so. two-thirds of businesses don't pay taxes? Completely untrue.
And you don't even know what an S-Corp is either - do you? All an S-Corp does is allow all profit and loss to flow through the personal income tax 1040. I won't go into the Accounting rules or the reasons why since if you don't even know WHAT an S-Corp is how can I expect you to understand how it works?
But all businesses pay taxes. The only difference is their taxes flow through the 1040 versus a corporate tax filing. I have an LLC and file as an S-Corp. I DON'T file a corporate tax return but before you get your panties in a wad it is because the profits from my business flow through to my personal income tax and I DO pay taxes on my business.
BTW, THIS is the reason this "tax on the rich" will affect so many small businesses. Say a business makes $500,000 profit in one year. They are happy and plan to expand their business a little and hire another worker. But now this $500,000 profit flows through their 1040 return and this tax that increases "just 4% more in taxes" equates to another $20,000 in taxes. Guess what, this business just decides to not expand their business since they now can't afford this additional worker.
Unemployment WILL increase if these taxes will increase but Democrats seem to want to continue this stagnant economy and increase unemployment so we Republicans can't stop it. But that is what Obama wants. BTW, do you realize Obama now has the record for the WORST economic recovery in United States history? Congratulations, and you uninformed and unintelligent voters reelected him for four more years to continue this pathetic record.
Well, the unintelligent and uninformed voter will get exactly what they voted for. Continued stagnant economy and higher unemployment.
GOPisextinct
I own an S Corp. Any income from that business that I don't take in salary flows to me at the end of the year and I pay tax on it.
One point. Three years ago the EPA made a rule affecting my business. It increased my material cost by 20%. Because of the economy, it was nearly impossible to pass that cost on to my clients. So, faced with little options and a wish to survive, I had no choice but to let one employee go, and forced the rest to pick up the slack. And when my employees earn within a few percent of what I do, I refuse to make less than them.
That is a business environment that cost one job in a very small company. I would relish an environment where I could hire 10.
Wow, here we go again. To Obama, wealthy (any income over 250K) are truly evil, and the reason for any recession or depression in history. Obama would have his way, and deal done- if not for these meddling 2%.
That he can convince anyone that all the responsibility for this mess should fall on the 2% is laughable. That the 2% and only the 2% should pay one thin dime more in tax is ludicrous.
Time for Obama to realize that we are all in this together, and that he needs to do more than rail against the 2%.
A waste of air?
Have you ever felt this way about any other President, or, is it just THIS particular President?
.
Just think, if Romney would have spoken to "All Of America," not just "White America," he may have been elected, it's easier being elected nationwide when you speak to ALL the people as proven below:
Now tell me Howard, you're probably white, republican, in a predominately white republican area who votes all republicans, correct? That's ok for your lilly-white districts that ALWAYS vote white, and republican, but, as you can see above, white republicans alone, couldn't get Romney into the White House.
Don't you think it's time for "you" guys to suspect your strategy doesn't work? That for a major, nationwide election, you need to talk to All America, not just rich, white, republican, America?
I'm 64 years old, have voted in every Presidential election since Nixon, vote my conscious, not a political party, but I have never seen such hate for a President as I see for President Obama, it could only be one reason, but I have yet to bump into someone like you who's man enough to admit his real reasons for hating the particular President.
@Derek-381097
And here we have a shining example of modern liberalism...Telling everyone what they deserve to earn and then expecting politicians to implement that plan.
@Moshulu
ROTFLMAO!!! Actually it's easier being elected nationwide if you promise free @!$%# to the majority while demonizing the minority, as we have seen in this past election.
Kevn: I completely agree with you. I am a business owner and also teach college economics part-time in the evenings so understand both and is amazing to me the lack of basic business concepts or basic economics by the vast majority of liberals.
Liberals can't seem to comprehend that when you increase the cost of business you decrease their ability to make a profit. And if you decrease the ability of a business to make a profit they decrease their investment in the business and hiring. And when you decrease the investment in business and hiring you get an economy like we have now with 2% growth and nearly 8% unemployment with no reasonable sign of improvement in years.
But you can't teach a liberal. They are unable to comprehend basic concepts and their only thought process is "hurt the rich" and "the rich don't deserve it".
Here is the difference between a conservative and a liberal:
Conservative: Two conservatives talking on a street corner and a man drives by in a nice Rolls Royce. One conservative looks to the other and says "with hard work and sacrifice one day I will OWN a car like that!!".
Liberals: Two liberals talking on a street corner and a man drives by in a nice Rolls Royce. One liberal looks to the other and says "it is not FAIR he gets to own a nice car and got that by abusing people like us. What can we do to take that car away from him!!".
Stop using the filibuster excuse, Senator Reid has gotten around the filibuster when he really wants too.
larry -- you seem to agree that bush and obama are equally good or bad by your insistence that if bush did it then it is ok for obama.
is that what you want in a leader? someone that does the same things as his predecessor?
remember when obama called bush unpatriotic and a failed leader because the debt limit needed to be increased? is obama not just one big hypocrite?
When you come right down to it, ALL the responsibility does fall on Congress. Only Congress can introduce and approve legislation. Under the Constitution, the president can only sign or veto a bill sent to him by Congress. If Boehner can't even get his tea party wackos to approves higher taxes on people making more than $1MM a year, that certainly isn't Obama's fault. That the House doesn't even return from its holiday break until this evening certainly isn't Obama's fault.
obumbo leading from behind as usual. Demanding more from those who pay the most in actual tax dollars and refusing to CUT SPENDING. And, of course, all the freeloaders and illegals think he is just great.
Everything today would be in better shape if the Supreme Court had not stopped the Florida recount and had insist that the whole state go through a recount.
The budget would have been and still would be balanced.
The World Trade Center would still be standing.
At least 3000 people would still be alive in NY.
There would be no war in Afghanistan.
There would certainly would not have been a war in Iraq.
Hundreds of thousands or Iraqi and Afghan citizens would still be living.
Thousands of our young men lost in those wars would be productive members of our society.
The price of oil would still be under $50 a barrel.
The US economy would not have collapsed.
In fact the world economy would still be doing good without the big increase in crude oil.
All of these problems are a direct result of the SCOTUS sticking their nose where it did not belong.
GOPisextinct "Two-thirds of businesses pay no taxes in this country."
That's because the owners pay the taxes on their personal returns. DUH
The owners still pay income taxes on the money they make from their businesses, just like other people pay taxes on the income they earn from working for a business.
The education level in this Country is pathetic.
LOL...Last I looked, you still are the majority in America. Care to re-think your response now?
If you paid any attention to campaign stops, you would have noticed Romney's audience, behind him on the podium, and out in the audience were WHITE. Now, on the other hand, if you would have noticed President Obama's audience, behind him on the podium you would have seen a "rainbow" of people, out in his audience, that same "rainbow" of people. That's what made the difference, President Obama spoke to ALL of America, not just white America.
Since YOU are the majority, what "free @!$%#" did the President promise you?
Race and Hispanic/Latino origin Census 2010,
Total Population 308,745,538 100.0%
Single race
White 196,817,552, 63.7%
Black or African American 37,685,848, 12.2%
American Indian and Alaska Native 2,247,098, .7 2%
Asian 14,465,124, 4.7%
Native Hawaiian and other Pacific Islander 481,576, 0.15%
Two or more races 5,966,481, 1.9%
Some other race 604,265, .20%
Hispanic or Latino 50,477,594, 16.3%
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
And our pathetic Incompetent In Chief continues to spew his ignorant nonsense about his plan actually doing something for the American people.
This "proposal" from Barrack Hussein has absolutely nothing to do with fixing the economy, it's purely political. None of this will improve our economy or create any jobs. All he cares about is scoring a political victory.
This is what statists do. They ignorantly expand the government until it is totally unsustainable and then begin the confiscation of more than your Rights, they go after your properties.
Barrack Husseins childish antics pretending to be capable of leadership have been dismissed long ago. The most amazing thing is that so many Americans are so dysfunctional and unambitious that they voted him back into office.
Fiscal cliff? What fiscal cliff?
Hey Libbies, your sacrosanct government is really concerned about saving your money for you.
First they ask for the Hurricane Sandy relief bill to be passed, so they pass it.
Hmmmm, what happened to the other $27.18 billion? Do you think it can be lurking around somewhere as "PORK"?
OH LOOK!!!! I found the pork.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/little_help_here_1kW6aQ8fElj4CKwbheEV0N
AND, for all that work I guess it's time to reward our hard working civil servants.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-orders-raise-biden-members-congress-federal-workers_692223.html
Hmmmm, so when was YOUR pay freeze lifted at your workplace? Do you have the privilege of an "executive order" to be used to just raise your pay without going through Congress, AGAIN?!?!?!?
Yes, more government is always the answer isn't it? Look how well our economy and standard of living has been doing with more and more government intrusion for the past 100 years and more dramatically over the past decade.
In the first 225 years of our government, we accrued $5 trillion in Debt. Over the past 12 years we have added $11 trillion more.
So, how much better is your life?
More importantly, how much better is your childs future?
The Senate should move to tighten the filibuster rules and Boehner needs to find a handle on the Tea Kettle or he'll have to work with more Democratic Representatives (and more are entering the House). The Republican Party has become a public spectacle of dysfunction and a synonym for incompetence.
DO YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM IS WITH THE DEFICITS?
I have just researched the problem with health care entitlements, and it is far worse than most people imagine. I used the President's own Budget (OMB) for 2013 as the basis for the basic information, and here are the results;
The projected Revenues for Medicare/Medicaid over the next 10 years are $2.823 Trillion.
The projected Costs for Medicare/Medicaid over the next 10 years are $11.134 Trillion.
That leaves a net Deficit in the Medicare/Medicaid programs of $8.311 Trillion, which is even greater than the total projected Federal Deficits of $6.684 Trillion over the next 10 years. In other words, if we did not have a Deficit from health care, we would have a budget SURPLUS of more than $1.6 Trillion over the next 10 years.
Obviously, something needs to be done with this HUGE 'entitlement problem', but Obama has conveniently ignored the problem in his Budget projections, and will demonize any Republicans that try to address the problem (Rep. Ryan). In fact, he has made it far worse with Obamacare.
It's a shame that the media does not give us the information that we need to make intelligent choices. Here's the link to Obama's Budget to verify - See Table S-5
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/tables.pdf
Backcountry164
@Derek-381097
And here we have a shining example of modern liberalism
@backcountry--
How funny.Modern liberalism my rear end. It sounds straight out of the right wing fringe.
I'm a Dem and here's my take.
First on everyone posting on here: you are the problem. You just don't get it do you? Your constant "oh my party is right, it's the other side that's wrong" is hogwash and our elected officials love it. While you are battling each other our pols are smkiling and continuing with business as usual. And we aid them by constantly reelecting the very people we rail against. Yet everyone of us would gladly put ourselves in their position if we could.
Second, I believe neither party cares about the people in this country except for those wealthy enough to help them get relected. The President stated: If we have raised some revenue by the wealthy paying a little bit more, that would be sufficient to turn off what's called the sequester. Mr President you are wrong. Additional income w/o spending cuts will not do the trick. It is time to show the American people our government is serious about tackling our deficit/debt. These cuts do not do anything about our debt. All they do is slow down the rate of the yearly deficit. Even with these cuts that neither party can agree on, our national debt will INCREASE by an additional $10 TRILLION ($10,000,000,000,000). The time has come to start making thre hard choices needed to fix the problem.
--------------------------------
ROY WILSON-336103
It's a shame that the media does not give us the information that we need to make intelligent choices.
Roy,
There is plenty of informastion out there for people to make "intelligent choices". Unfortunately way too many people have lost their ability or desire to find it. Thinking for one's self has become a lost art. It's become too easy to plop down and let your favorite news scource, be it right or left, become your belief.
Reality check: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/29/fbi-coordinated-crackdown-occupy
Oh, look, boys and girls: they own you.
If you complain, they'll hurt you.
If you rebel, they'll kill you.
I don't know when this class conflict escalated into warfare, but it has clearly become a battle for the very survival of our nation in any form most of us would recognize- so far, a war of words, by and large- but still, a war- and both sides are well armed indeed.
On one side, the best monitoring and information gathering system the concentrated money of a powerful new class of despots can buy, and the largest imprisonment system since the Soviet Gulags.
On the other, the best real-time communications system any potential peonage has ever enjoyed.
A sufficiently complex one-time pad (say, four layers of decryption keys referenced by positional letter information on random pages of four different books) which then yields words referencing phrases in a lookup list currently works pretty well as a foundation for encryption- but that's not going to last.
We have perhaps another five years before consolidation of control is complete.
The stunning losses handed to the right in the last few elections are a clear indication that this will not be a cakewalk for our wannabee dictators- but the stunning loss of real income, the ever-rising "productivity targets (read "enslavement") and the resulting assassination of the middle class as an empowered majority have also transpired without effective opposition- removing the fiscal basis required for political parity, with insult added to injury by the suborned Supreme Court's "Citizens United" ruling.
Interesting times indeed, and a possible revolution in the offing.
After all...the peaceful effort to use civic action to change the course of our nation was ruthlessly suppressed- and without that option, what's left?
Perhaps there's a third party waiting in the wings which will render this class war moot; if AI comes upon us unexpectedly, the machines may save us from ourselves. One can always hope...
Name one instance of Reid passing a bill with the filibuster in effect. The only way the Health care bill was passed was by some Republicans voting for the law to come to a vote.
What's pathetic was when McConnell asked for a vote on the deficit ceiling he introduced then filibustered his own bill. That's a new low for Republican stupidity.
.
LOL....Talk about hypocritical!!! If a Democrat goes back 4-5 years and talk about Bush, ya'll have a hissy-fit about living in the past, and YOU go back 225 years? LOL!!!
You seem like an educated man, can you tell me, well, I'll make it easy on you, the population difference between 225 years ago, and today in America (remember, you had slaves working free for you), how about the cost of a fighter jet, oops, didn't have any 225 years ago, how about at least one illegal way (Iraq) that your President started, how much did that cost America's taxpayers 225 years ago....I could go on, but I won't.
@Moshulu
No, I don't need to rethink my response but apparently I need to explain it. The minority the President is demonizing is the wealthy and the majority he promises free @!$%# to is everyone else.
My apologies, I just assumed anyone with the ability to read would be able to comprehend that. I forgot that liberals tend to put a racial slant on everything. I should have realized that using the word "minority" would totally throw you off track and leave you clueless regarding the point I was making.
Yup, these are Obama's words. Here is my question:"Why should any class folks pay more taxes, percentage wise, than any other"? I thought we are a democratic society - Democrats???
Just because I invested more in my education and started my own successful business shall not make me responsible for those with less ambitions. Ergo, I shall not pay anybodies way just because they don't have what I have. What a crock of @!$%# these higher taxes for the few are!! Wow.
Let's take a bunch of the free-bees in this country away and we will be able to balance the budget OK. Perhaps the lazy ones will learn to work instead of depending on those of this society that work hard and are not baby breeding stations.
I say it's just like last time when the GOP held America hostage so they can keep making the wealthy even more wealthy. Don't be spineless again dems, hold your ground and if it goes over then the GOP (Who won't have campaign funds if they do cave in as a broken system works.) has a lot of explaining (making up lies on fnc because they own it with donations) to the majority of people.
We can only hope the GOP will compromise and accept they can't have it all and someone does need to stand up to their insane nonsense. Who else can? Screw the rich who wouldn't even miss what fair share they should have been paying long ago as they did in the 50's. It did equal out rich to poor and we still had jobs. If it's taken from the middle class, we will feel it with less buying of rich corporation products. Then they cut more jobs and wonder why...
What happened in all past congress made crises like this one besides losing best credit rating because of the GOP? The dems gave in worried the economy would get worse. GOP can care less. That's one of the reasons the deficit continues to rise with the poor policies of GWB still in effect. Huge defense entitlements no bid contracts and tax cuts together. GOP doesn't want to stop either because they are bought and paid for by corporations as individuals and don't work for the American people anymore.
@imwhitewolf
Well it came straight out of the mouth of a liberal so there you go. Deny it all you want but facts are facts.
Larry go to this link and read about Reid and the fillibuster
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/186133-reid-triggers-nuclear-option-to-change-senate-rules-and-prohibit-post-cloture-filibusters
Moshulu
Do you actually read the posts you respond to or is it that you just can't comprhend them?????? He clearly stated " Over the past 12 years" 12 YEARS, Do you understand how long that is?? Do you understand that INCLUDES the time when Bush was in office?? So if he is also bitching about Bush how on Earth did you come to the conclusion that he is a hypocrite because OTHER people have a "hissy-fit" when Bush is talked about?? I'd love to see just exactly how you've managed to twist that around in your head.
SSDD........BLAME BLAME BLAME!!
WHEN are YOU going to take responsibility Barry??????
STOP SPENDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its called COMPROMISE Barry...I know it doesnt exist in your vocabulary, but could you TRY???
YOUR WAY or NO WAY?????????
Why do Republicans want to eliminate programs that aid the poor while increasing the programs that aid the wealthy? The loopholes they want to cut are middle class loopholes but they want to keep the loophole that allows someone like Donald Trump to have a tax free private jet.
What justification do the Republicans have for stopping the tax increase on those having over $250,000 in taxable income while refusing to allow the tax cuts for those under $250,000 to continue? Statistics prove that tax cuts for the wealthy does not create jobs. Rich people take money out of circulation by sticking it in foreign banks where the middle and lower class spend a larger percentage of their income which keeps the economy working. Logic tells you that the more money the rich put in their bank accounts...the less money circulating in the US economy.
If EVERYBODY paid a flat tax (of about20 %) all would be fine in the nation. NO loopholes, no breaks, everybody pays the same flat tax all would be fixed IMO. No need to educate oneself every year with all the changing tax laws, no need for the IRS to calculate and waste more tax money figuring out if you filed correctly. You have an income, you pay the same as EVERYONE else.
starsailing
You wrote: “Republicans pledged their loyalty to King Norquist never to raise taxes on the rich.” You seem to be stuck in a sixth grade time warp. Do you have anything to say that an adult would find interesting?
BTW: this is a straw man argument. Many Republicans in congress made a pledge not to raise taxes on any one in any tax bracket, and they certainly didn’t make any kind of pledge, what-so-ever to Grover Norquist. If you have any proof that they did, then please present it; otherwise, admit that you were exaggerating and distorting the truth.
You wrote: “Republicans met the night President Obama took office and pledged against America just to make America fail in recovering from the depression caused by republicons, banksters, and wallstreeters.” You’re a paranoid sixth grader. Do you have any proof to support your claims, or do I have to tell your mother that you’re lying to the adults again?
You wrote: “Republicans slowed the recovery down deliberately to make it appear President Obama failed.” Please; can you grow up and stop acting like a child, and support your claims with a little evidence?
You wrote: “Republicons only want the rich to get richer at the cost of the middleclass, the elderly, the young, and the poor.” You talk like a 12 year old, so the Democrats must have sent you here to target the 12-year-old readers. This is a straw man argument. It is a distortion and an exaggeration of the truth. It has no foundation in reality.
President Obama does many things, but he doesn’t rock.
I find it humorous when some people complain that the 'rich' hire lawyers and accountants to find tons of 'loopholes' that allow them to pay less taxes, claiming that their 'Effective” tax rate is much lower than the 35% top tax rate.
The REALITY is that the Middle Class taxpayer benefits from the 'loopholes' far more than the 'rich' do. For example, while the 'rich' pay an effective tax rate of about 27%, let's consider the Middle Class - These figures are from the 2012 IRS Form 1040 for a family of 4 with income of $50,000;
Income = $50,000
Deductions (Exemptions & Standard Deductions) = $27,100
Taxable Income = $22,900
Taxes = $2,831
Effective tax rate = 5.67%
If they Itemize Deductions, their Effective tax rate could be less than 5%, and they don't have to hire lawyers and accountants to get the benefit.
Arkius
No, he doesn't. In fact I don't think he can "say" anything on his own; he pretty much sticks to cutting and pasting the same drivel over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. Apparently he doesn't realize it makes him seem incredibly simple-minded.
http://www.greatfallstribune.com/article/20121227/OPINION/312270031/Filibuster-overhaul-long-overdue
Obama could tax the "rich" at 100% (those earning more than say $1M) and it would fund the current out of control deficit spending (the most ever in US HISTORY of which is under OBAMA'S TERM) and it would run government for about 9 days. Let's not forget that that magical $250k Obama and the Dems want to raise taxes on are small business owners. You people on the left think said business owners won't either 1) offset that with higher goods and services prices or 2) cut back on hiring? What are you liberals smoking? Pink Utopian pixie dust? Even the French Poodle socialists dumped the idea of taxing at 75% for the richest...they knew that the rich would pack their bags and haul A to another nation and take their money with them (some in the US are doing that now).
@Derek-381097
Spoken like a true liberal socialist left wing communist "progressive." Look into the "mind" of the modern left: your property is not YOUR property. THEY will determine what YOU should have. Just like their guy Obama said: "you didn't create that business, someone else created it for you." That's as UN-AMERICAN as it gets folks. Pathetic.
But back to the cliff. Why hasn't Harry Reid's Democrat controlled Senate passed ONE SINGLE BUDGET in nearly four years as constitutionally mandated? Anyone? Anybody? [cricket chirp] [cricket chirp] But it's ALL the GOP's fault. Talk about being stuck on stupid.
Thank you Roy Wilson. Anyone can research the data on what income groups contribute what percentages of overall IRS income tax revenue taken in by households: the top 10% of income earners (those earning more than $112k) pay 71% of them. The top 25% (those making above $69k) pay 87%. The bottom 50% (those earning less than $33k) pay 3%. The middle 25% (those earning between $33k and $69k, or the so-called "middle class" pay the remaining 10%). And the socialist left wing liberals say the upper income earners don't pay "their fair share." But when was the last time you saw a liberal address facts like that? Facts...are stubborn things. - John Adams
@Larry-2260635
Why don't you give us some examples of that Larry so we know you're not just a parrot repeating the rhetoric you've heard other people saying??
Where did idiots get the idea that the wealthy deserve to become more so at the expense of everyone else and that this is a GOOD thing? These folks aren't "job creators". Like Romney, they make money eliminating U.S. jobs and shifting money around. They do nothing to improve our society.
Why is the headline of this article not "Obama's Insistence on Sticking It To the Most Successful Preventing Fiscal Cliff Solution? It makes as much sense as what the NBC lackey wrote....just depends on one's outlook, I guess.
GOPisextinct:
You wrote: “President Obama HAS accepted responsibility. It is the "party of personal responsibility" that continues to deny Bush's complicity in our Great Recession.” Please cite your sources for these claims; otherwise they’re nothing but hogwash.
You wrote: “The President has tried to kick the football that Boehner keeps yanking away, but to no avail.” Cute Lucy/Linus analogy, but it’s useless, because it’s not based on any verifiable evidence.
You wrote: “The Republic Party knows it is on the way out. It knows it has to Gerrymander districts, suppress voters, lie, and fix voting machines to win. It is a party struggling for acceptance; hell,......for existence.” Your analysis is moronic. It is based on nothing more then your subjective opinion, which is totally worthless.
You wrote: “It is sucking wind, and will need to get more and more desperate to win. Eventually their overreach will lay bear their desperation as the embarrassment it is.” You should be embarrassed to write such drivel.
And finally, you wrote: “Pubbies are painful to watch today aren't they?” Not as painful as you are to read.
BTW: I expect some sort of personal attck in reply, so don’t let me down.
I am not in love with Barack Obama but I find it disturbing to see how many people on here and in my country either forget or choose to ignore the FACT the the economy was already demolished before Barack Obama was even sworn in as president. Furthermore, the Repugnican leaders CONSPIRED to prevent him from fixing their train wreck by vowing to work to our nation's detriment. This clearly fits any rational definition of treason. To all of the haters who want to blame President Obama for all that is wrong, I suggest that first you flush the toilet bowl to get rid of the traitors in the red party that sought to damage each and every one of us. I am sooo tired of the neocons and bush apologists and bigots who want to rewrite history and blame Obama for not preventing bushco from wrecking us. WTFU you trolls. Barack Obama may be a minor injury- maybe- but the repugnicans are cancer.
@Wants to know
Where did idiots get the idea that people don't "deserve" what they've earned!! And where did idiots get the idea that wealthy people make their money at the "expense" of everyone else despite all of the evidence to the contrary??
Oh, yeah... Those ideas came from the President who was depending on those idiots to get re-elected.
We're not going over a cliff. We'll dig our hole a little deeper with a few more trillion in spending on pork, slip some major gun control in the language with no tax increases. It will pass at 11:59 New Years eve. The losers on both sides wiil be giddy with delight backslapping each other while throwing the commoners under the bus. Then we'll go back to watching Sean Shammity and Rachael Madcow while they tell us how to think.
Arkus, you should educate yourself before you accuse others of being ignorant. Have you read any news out of Ohio or Pennsylvania? I think not. Even though the repugnicans convincingly lost both states, they are trying to push through changes in their electoral method that would have given them the majority of theose states' electoral votes. THIS IS, INDEED, CALLED JERRYMANDERING. THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO SUBVERT THE CLEAR WILL OF THE ELECTORATE AND SHOULD BE A CRIMINAL OFFENSE. THE REPUGS DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT DEMOCRACY OR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE'S WILL
Educate yourself.
Jim Spence:
If you did away with the immature dialog, then someone might take you seriously. Any one who talks like a high school freshman, will be taken for a high school freshman.
Obama is a liar. He knows full well that his goal is to raise taxes on everyone and by insisting on the focus to raise taxes on the wealthy is nothing more than a ploy. If he continues to insist on raising taxes and not on balancing the budget he wins. He hopes to place blame (like always) on the Republicans but in the end he gets what he wants, higher taxes on everybody so the Democrats can continue to raise the deficit spending.
Do not be fooled, raising taxes (on the wealthy or otherwise) will not reduce the deficit spending, only a reduction in spending can decrease the deficit!
why are the rich so afraid of a 3 percent tax increase.they arent.what theyre afraid of is losing the 35 percent tax cut reagan gave them,they see the 3 percent as a slip down the slippery slope to losing the other 32 percent.so theyre giving their employees,the republicans,their marching orders"no tax increases".the rest of us are of no concern to the republicans
Beverly in Chicago acts like ditto heads and "ignorant" fox viewers are a bad thing. Frankly folks I've grown weary of the Bill Maher / Keith Olbermann assertions that watching Fox and listening to Rush Limbaugh is the worst thing a thinking person could ever do. Rush gets taken out of context by ignorant CurrentTV viewers all the time, but does anyone call out the people that take him out of context? Sure, sometimes, and they never get air time. Why?
Because people seem to think that ditto heads and fox viewers are ignorant because it's cool and cliche to think so. Not because it's correct or accurate in any way, shape, or form. It's just trendy. Paris Hilton is also trendy and she's just a dumb spoiled whore - can anyone disagree? Only ignorant fans of her sex tape and skimpy fashion line. For the heiress to a hotel conglomerate... well, I think that's far enough. Anyone that isn't ignorant can draw the line between those dots which quickly knocks the foundation out from under the "Rich need to pay their fair share" dogma. Paris also votes for Obama and Democrats... weird how that works.
So... Obama wants everything and won't budge and blames the Republicans? You know, we can impeach him for obstruction of Congress. God knows he's done enough and been involved in enough scandal that even a rigged election like this last one is just more icing on his cake. We could also elect Hillary so the Left will shut up already and we can watch her fail too.
Thomas Blue, Obama spent his entire first term blaming everyone else. he's accomplished nothing but running up our debt to historic levels which we'll never be able to repay. The republicans built the wrecking ball and the Democrats are enlarging it.
So, the President holds an intractable position that tax rates on the wealth MUST go up or no deal and the GOP says that if the tax rates on the wealthy go up then so do everyone else's and the President has the nerve to say it's the GOP's fault that there is no fiscal cliff deal...?
The President is the one who drew the line in the sand, ffs.
The President is going to end up being the President who presided over the largest tax rate increase on the poor and middle class in history. He gets the blame...just like Bush gets blamed for 9/11 because it happened on his watch.
History won't give a f'ck about Boehner or Reid...it will only remember that Obama raised taxes with ObamaCare and with the fiscal cliff.
I frankly thought Obama was quite lame in this interview.
I am on his side and think he's right, but he is so milquetoast in his laying of responsibility, you can hardly tell what point he's trying to make.
"Some" are not "trying" to move the country forward?
Republicans have been attacking Democrats for a very long time. Carter, Clinton, Obama. They can't stand it when somebody else is in charge, and they make them pay, by any means, and damn anyone who gets in their way. Even if it is the whole country.
Eventually, I truly hope we get a Democratic fighter who has the balls to call them out.
Unpatriotic Republican swine.
Do the right thing.
Accept higher taxes.
Cut spending in a responsible way.
Support the middle class.
I don't like the entirety of the military cuts, and I'm disappointed there are no "entitlement" cuts in the "cliff", but we should go over it. Either Mr. Obama (and Tea Partiers too, btw) were right when Mr. Bush was president that $250 billion dollar deficits to fund current consumption were immoral, or they were wrong. I say Mr. Obama was right. Sadly his performance as president has belied those words.
We are in a deep recession right now. Growth is at 2% plus, but so is inflation, and this growth is largely the result of government spending borrowed money to prop up the GDP. We have to stop this and act likes adults. Mr. Obama, well he acts like an infant. But this doesn't excuse Republicans. It is true that Republicans are less dangerous than Democrats for our nation's future, but only in terms of the time in which the damage is occurring. Republicans, RIGHTLY supported lower tax rates in the past, but WRONGLY accepted as the price for them removing millions of taxpayers from the rolls. We'd be far better to have a cleaner code so that poorer people pay a very low tax rate, whatever it would be, but that all of us have no credits or deductions with which government guides our behaviors.
This is all a mess of our own creation. Democrats are worse in degree than Republicans, but both sides are to blame. I expect exactly no level of maturity from liberals to solve the problem, which leaves all the lifting to conservatives. Cut rates, cut credits and deductions, eliminate business taxes, cut regulations, and make real cuts in actual spending today (as opposed to promises that in ten years or so we might put a commission together to talk about possibly lowering the rate of spending growth). It was IMMORAL, remember, in 2008, so sayeth The Obama. And today, deficits FIVE times that amount are not just okay, they are noble, so sayeth The Obama. And his minions, like Beverly far above, simply parrot the line.
We are in major deep Kimchi.
I hate to disturb a perfectly good rant with facts but all the economic policies that imploded our economy were put into place by Clinton, not Bush. Just an FYI.
I know that reality doesn't work well with this partisan hachetry that you're spewing but facts are facts...and it was Clinton/Rupin that ruined our economy.
It's all about the bottom line, how much more money can those with money make from those who are attempting to survive. We have a Congress who produce more millionaires every year among their members. We have a Congress who have managed to vote themselves more power every term. How many "Executive Orders" has Obama signed versus any other President? EVERY Politician uses Corporate campaign donations, Corporate Lobbyists to stay in power. They are not called the best Politicians money can buy for nothing and it cuts across ALL party lines. It's not about work is or is not being done on Capitol Hill, it is about which special interests get the grease. WE THE PEOPLE are not a special interest. WE THE PEOPLE have been written out of the equation save when it comes to elections and paying taxes. Do YOU see any end to these practices in sight? Have you seen any lessening of the Legislative Branch in gaining more and more power over the people by take it from the people?
It is not about the GOP or the Dems, it is about the power and YOU don't have it anymore, they do. What dwindling power we are left with is only an Executive Order away.
@Wants to know: where do liberal idiots get the idea that SOMEONE KEEPING MORE OF THEIR MONEY is TAKING FROM YOU.
Rich people with brains (non-lib rich people) should get the hell out of this country and give you communists on the left the big middle finger salute.
JR, your GTFO moniker there is a little stale, and moot for a couple months now.
Too bad your history, and history preview is wrong. Obama is going to win this Cliff thing, and Republicans are going to look like the unpatriotic pigs they are.
Cheers!
I can see if OBAMA was not elected on his stance on increasing the tax of the wealthy, but as We all know he won by a majority vote so there is no BS on his part .... Well two years goes pretty fast and these Morons will pay the piper in the end.
Tax law is law. If the law says you owe the money based on your income, then it's not your money.
We live in a society that decided that. You don't get to decide whats yours by yourself. Sorry, a little reality for you.
Thomas Blue:
You need a complete education.
To begin with, you are either ill mannered, or you have a problem reading. My name is Arkius, and not Arkus. If you are not willing to behave like an adult, then please do not respond to my comments. I do not have the patients to deal with ignorant children.
Next, you have reading comprehension issues. Re-read my comments to GOPisextinct and you will find that I do not accuse him of being ignorant.
You wrote: “Have you read any news out of Ohio or Pennsylvania? I think not.” Who is being ignorant now? You seem truly astounded that a person from a different part of the country is not intimate with the details of local Ohio and Pennsylvania political news. Are you kidding? Can you be any more of a jerk?
What is it about Ohio and Pennsylvania political news that you think is so absolutely breath taking that people from all over the country will be falling over themselves so that they can become familiar with every little tidbit of information? Get a freakin’ life.
And what is a repugnicans? If you can’t communicate like an adult, without calling people, things or organizations childish names, then please don’t bother me.
Here in Indy my cousin went to the sheriffs sale for tax properties.... When he went there he a plan to bid on any and all of 5 propeties which typically is a higher and more sure rent district here in Indy.... Well needless to say that $7,000 which he had in his pocket at the time wasn't enough to buy a property because he was outbid everytime by the same man.... And this man walked away with all properties that day....
You see its a simple money game to keep us (the common people) paying them for anything which we wish to own.... This includes vehicles and homes and then the products which we use everyday.... So why should we expect anything different from congress.... And this is why smaller businesses are crushed slowly into submission.... So enjoy your choke hold....
Actually what needs to be done is more people should start up many small businesses all across the USA for smaller proffits and not selling out to bigger companies which will start strangling them out and slowly start putting proffits back into the small business owners pockets once again....
The 5 family members of wal-mart last year made 5 billion dollars each last year and that money went into their pockets.... Now if smaller business owners had been part of their competition they too would have made at least part of that 25 billion dollar proffit and that money would have been in some of our pockets.... So once again enjoy giving into their big business and your slavery (job) with a tiny income which they allow you to make....
Is the far left and their union base (AFL-CIO, AFSCME, SEIU, MoveOn and others , and the billionaire socialist coward puppet master George Soros, who want to make more money from another crisis, who is pushing Obama to stick on his guns and increase taxes to meddle class and small business, 250,000 dollars and up, more spending , with no solutions to our financial problems of deficit and increase of debt.
good interview with the president.one way or another the rich are going to see a 3 percent tax increase and the middle class will keep its tax rate the same.the republicans might as well stand against a compromise.theyll make their masters,the rich,happy.i would say they will expose themselves as caring only for the rich but if that isnt obvious to someone by now theyll never understand
Jhawke
As I said, Unpatriotic Republican swine. Only give a sh!t about yourself, not your country.
Poor Backcountry.......,so you are obviously not up to the level of adult eh?...Go to Fox news then.....they prey on people like you to mis inform....Whenever you don't like a fact...you start name calling everytime.
The whole world with half a brain knows the republicans signed a pledge to Norquist to not raise taxes on the rich..it sure as hell wasn't for the middle class. Hard to digest huh?...DOH!
Repubs need to sign a pledge disavowing their signing of the Norquist Pledge and the pledge to vote aginst America to fail or be tried for treason.
Ace...it is a fact that the repugs involved have not even bothered to deny the allegations of the meeting on the night of Obama's inauguration. You MIGHT be right that the dems enlarged it. Maybe. I'm not a dem. But this is like a team of firefighters trying to fight a fire while the householders are throwing on logs and gas. The repugs should go. Many of them to prison. Ryan and all who met with him-DeMint, the whole group- should be prosecuted for treason. As to whether Obama wants us to go off the cliff, I suspect that unless one can read minds, the the accuser is simply demonstrating either a very cynical disposition or simply an unwarranted hate for Obama. The worst part of the cliff is that the UI benefits will destroy several millions of our countrymen who are out of work because of Wall Street and Reaganomics/Bushanomics. Further, it has been shown that every dollar of these benefits returns $1.10 to the economy. These are good dollars to invest. I don't love the dems. I absolutely loathe the repugnicans. But my instinct tells me that Obama is well intentioned and the repugs want only 2 things: kill Obama and serve their billionaire masters. They are shameless whores.
Furthermore, Obama didn't have to blame anyone his first term. All with an IQ over 80 and any objectivity already knew the repugs and bush/raygun were the ones who raped us. Did Obama handle everything perfectly? Surely not. But who could have? Let's point out that no one in the party that caused this mess knew what to do and bushco shamelessly tried to defer everything to Obama even before he was sworn in because they were lost and desperate to get out before the whole house burned down. Bush and Raygun- and all who supported them and their wars, both military and economic- are responsible. Not President Obama. He's a fine man in a near impossible job with dogs nipping at his heels every step of the way.
Oskar: lunacy
I don't think you listened to a thing the President said. He didn't and hasn't said, enacted or otherwise proposed anything that you say.
Discussing what people have "earned" without addressing what they put in or take out of the economy skews the issue. The wealthy are and have been sitting on a stash of liquid capital in the trillions without investing it or otherwise feeding it through the economy, to the detriment of us all and in spite of their professed pro-capitalist stance. They also use far more of the infrastructure of this country than any other segment of the population: the roads and airports carry their products, the police protect their businesses, the courts uphold their contracts and settle their disputes, the govt. spends more time regulating their activities than anyone else's, they lease land for grazing and extraction industries from the US for a pittance, and they leave more messes for the rest of us to clean up (see the 2008 bust and recession). And then they fund the campaigns of crooked politicians to complete their negative effect on our political system. If they are not careful here, they could create a groundswell that will not only tax them more, but bring down their carefully constructed house of privilege.
imwhitewolf
You are a shining example of FAKE conservatism.
Because, like the extreme liberals you pretend to hate, you'd rather not negotiate and have less money.
Therefore, you should hop the nearest ship sent to hunt Japanese whalers. Because you are lying that you don't want less money. You do. You just say you don't and pretend not negotiating with liberals gets you more money.
Look in the mirror, the answer to your problems.
One party voters need to get tossed into the ocean so the rest of us can get on with making the country actually work.
The moderator should have asked the president, "Do you think the the reason the GOP won't work with you is because you are black?"
Because of this do nothing congress, they have made it so that President Obama will go down in history as the best president EVER... Most intelligent, Most compassionate, Most respectful of our military, Most caring and concern for ALL Americans....
Star,
They have a loophole, the Norquist Pledge is not to Norquist, but to the American People.
Sort of like Congress voting for the Iraq War. It's not Bush's war is Congress voted for it. I went on for much too long arguing with a guy yesterday about that.
It's still Norquist's pledge. And appears to supersede their pledge to uphold the Constitution. You're right, that's treasonous.
You're a cute boy Arkus, but not worth responding to. Go bow to your repug gods...enjoy your servitude.
BTW, my dear boy, if you consider it a small matter that a group of people from your party want to strangle democracy, I guess my father, uncles, grandfather, son and myself all fought for nothing because I guess freedom and democracy mean nothing to you either. What a loss, but no surprise. That's why you're red. Uneducated and apathetic.
Sorry to burst peoples bubbles but the social security tax is one thing that should not have been cut in the first place. People have paid into social security for years hoping that it would supplement their retirement. First stop putting the money in the general fund and use it for what it is being paid into for and that is social security and social security only. Their is no way to get this country out of the mess it is in unless the government learns to balance the budget just like the people have to. Congress needs to stop getting pay raises and maybe even take a pay cut until they learn to do their jobs and do them right and part of that is to pull their heads out and stop looking at things on the party line and think like an economist! Balance the countries budget like you would your household budget and sorry Congress you need to feel the pain just as the general public will! Also why were these people out campaigning to keep their job when they should have been in Washington doing them, fire their worthless backsides compromise something we try to teach our CHILDREN!
I see this thread is much like government, with a few notable exceptions. Divided into two Ideological camps, neither of whom is willing to do the work and make the hard choices to get the country back on track. They won't close the so called "loop holes" because they themselves enjoy them. And this includes BOTH sides of the aisle. Check their portfolios, you will be shocked to find as many of the left are in the top 5% as the right. These are the same folks who give themselves raises while the rest of us may not have had one in five years, not even CEO's can give themselves a raise, it takes agreement from the board of Directors, Any of you get a vote in the last round of government raises? No? I wonder why?, since they are supposed to work FOR us. Obama recently gave white house staffers a 16% raise, when was the last time any of you got a raise close to that amount?
I have been watching the political crime syndicate for six decades now. I voted for the last Democrat I thought might get things done, John F. Kennedy. And it has only gotten worse. This is Indeed, a case of the fox guarding the chicken coup. And as long as they can keep us arguing, divided and locked in party ideology among ourselves, we aren't watching them. Politicians have only ONE thing in common, party affiliation not withstanding, If they're mouth is moving, they ARE lying to you and it's true from the city counsel chambers to the white house. They are ALL the same, ALL dirty, ALL the time. Think about it, we now have four "party" types to choose from, Democrat, Independent, Republican, and Tea party. Now use the first letter of each word to form an acronym and what do you get?, D.I.R.T. coincidence?, I think not. Wake up and smell the S**T, they are burying us in it.
S.Williams:
You're right on here.
LOW TAXES are KILLING our economy and middle class way of life.
High taxes force the rich to reinvest their money in the economy through wages and equipment purchase to avoid tax. Low taxes allow them to pocket the money for a small pittance. I call 15% a pittance.
Marginal tax rates for any income over $10 Million should be taxed at least 50% to force reinvestment in the economy.
It worked in the mid 20th century, it will work now.
Beverly @ 1.5: "How many bills has the current 112th Congress passed? You'll be surprised. 196 bills!"
So to have good government you must have an extreme number of new laws (of which most are not needed and just get in the way) each session.
I believe you need to rethink your position. Oh, that's right, you never thought about it. You're just parroting the Democrats talking points.
SmBusOwnerinNY
WRONG! Even AFTER we are taxed it is still OUR money. Aside from that your point is laughable considering it is the specifics of the tax law that are in question. Why is it wrong to expect a lower tax rate that allows you to keep more of what you've earned and how does that equate to taking from someone else? It doesn't.
Larry-2260635
OK Larry, I’ll play.
Tell us all exactly WHAT programs that aid the poor do Republicans want to eliminate?
In 1965 when your boy-toy LBJ began the miserably failing “war on poverty” our poverty rate was 14%, since then we have spent over $17 trillion and today’s poverty rate is 14.3% (15.1% including recessionary effects).
Is it one of those programs that have done absolutely nothing to help lift people out of poverty?
This year the Federal government will spend more than $668 BILLION on at least 126 different programs created to fight poverty. States and local governments add about $284 BILLION annually to fight poverty. Almost $1 TRILLION dollars is spent on poverty every year.
This amounts to $20,610 for every poor person in America, or $61,830 per family of three.
Welfare spending increased under G.W. Bush and has since exploded under Barrack Hussein. Since 2009 federal welfare spending has increased by 41%, more than $190 BILLION a year.
Larry, is it the fact that our OWN government has shown how dysfunctional our OWN government is that bothers you?
Look at this tid-bit.
Government auditors spent the past five years examining all federal programs and found that 22 percent of them–costing taxpayers a total of $123 billion annually–fail to show any positive impact on the populations they serve.
I post this finding but none of you Liberals/Progressives ever explain to me how you can just keep giving our criminal government more of your hard earned tax dollars as they waste 1/4 of it. How can your be so shallow as to literally tell the successful Americans that they need to just give more money to our criminal government even though you know it won't help.
Why do you Libbies willingly submit so easily to the government that can care less about your future? Why do you just succumb to people you have never met, yet keep losing so much of your money to waste, fraud, abuse and corruption? Why do you admit you’re so incompetent that you can’t take care of yourself and your money and you’ll just give it to anybody and hope they care for you from birth to death? Why aren’t you embarrassed that your ignorance is a result of a flawed system and you’re incapable of breaking out of it?
It’s time you Liberals/Progressives man up and become ambitious, self-sufficient and proud once again. The real Americans are tired of carrying you for decades.
Time to grow up and be exceptional once again Libbies.
Greed isn’t someone wanting to keep more of what they earn, its people demanding a greater share of money that someone else has earned.
eh...my moniker is the least of my worries. As it is, it stands for lost opportunity.
Obama IS going to win the "fiscal cliff thing" but not the way you think. Obama has proven by his actions and not his words that he WANTS everyone's taxes to go back to the Clinton tax rates. He signed the fiscal cliff into law, thus creating it...and he's made his position one he knows his opposition party will not adopt, thus ensuring gridlock. Obama has done everything possible to ensure that not only the rich, but the middle class and the poor start paying more...which is his goal. He wants and has always wanted more revenue to spend. The twist here is that he gets what he wanted all along...higher taxes on everyone (and thus, more revenue) and gets to blame the GOP for raising taxes because his supporters are absolute morons and can't come to the realization that they've been had.
The facts are just too obvious to ignore. Obama orchestrated our going over the fiscal cliff from Day One.
@starsailing
ROTFLMAO!!!! Says the guy who can't form a coherent thought without cutting and pasting what someone else has said! When was the last time you had an original post?? Have you ever?? Every time you post it is the EXACT same crap you've been saying for months. EVERY...SINGLE...TIME.
Go back to your vacation Mr President because it's the only thing that you good at.
Nicodemus,
Thank you for noticing we are not all the same lemmings.
I'm pretty solid on one side, but think there's room for fiscal prudence. I'm for letting all of the Bush tax cuts expire, extending Medicare to 67, and a handful of other 3rd rail items not typical for a partisan Democrat. I think it's PATRIOTIC to make our country's government function, and UNPATRIOTIC to cheer for its dysfunction.
I have some "different" ideas about tax rates than pretty much everybody, but no one engages me in conversation to refute what I'm saying.
High tax rates, generous deductions for favored activities like ACTUAL job creation in America. What's wrong with that? We want to motivate the people with high incomes to invest in Americans.
This tax hike will hit hard for me and my family..we will probably lose much more than much needed money..
GTFO:
I want that, but Obama has never said that, or acted that way. He keeps trying to get everybody bck to the table, so how could anything else be his goal?
It was a little more complicated than that. He was for the Grand Bargain first, then the Committee, all before the fiscal Cliff, so it's hard to say that the Cliff was somehow his Grand Plan. You're giving him WAY too much credit.
Only on this site will you see a liberal claiming 9/11 wouldn't have happened if Al Gore was President...... Obama ignored the very bipartisian committeee on the budget that he appointed. Liberals blame that on Bush.... This past summer Pelosi said she'd be willing to only raise taxes on those making over $1 million. The GOP recently agreed. Then all the sudden Obama demands the number be lowered to those making over $250,000. Liberals blame Bush or somebody.
Simple solution to a complex problem - flat tax. There is no "discrimination" against the rich, they'll just be paying their fair share, like the rest of us.
SmBusOwnerinNY
WTF are you talking about????????? The ONLY wealthy people paying 15% are people who earn ALL of their money in the stock market. Raising the Cap Gains tax will encourage people to NOT invest (i.e. risk) their money in stocks reducing the amount of capitol companies have to retool and expand.
The majority of the wealthy pay FAR more than 15% with the average millionaire paying 29% of their income in Federal taxes. It is the middle class who only pay 15%.-http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/the-a-p-fact-checks-the-buffett-rule-and-finds-its-premise-flawed/
Back:
Uh, no, the taxed part of our income is no longer ours. What are you talking about?
TYG,
I'll say 9/11 wouldn't have happened under Gore. He would have listened to Richard Clark, and wouldn't have stood down the Air Force(?) like Cheney did, and wouldn't have ignored the Daily Brief that said Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside America."
You idiots voted this idiot back into office and now you complain because both he and congress are not budging (although I have watched this closely and all that congress is asking is for the President to show concrete reduction and he refuses to do so), I hope we go over the cliff and you idiots on unemployment that thought he was going to continue to give you free stuff while we destroyed the future for our children, I hope you starve when you quit getting checks.
Stupidity is doing the same exact thing twice and hoping that you will get different results the next time. Thinking that this president would change for the better shows how stupid some of you actually are.
Democrats, which Obama would you like us to believe?
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of
leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own
bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from
foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies.
...Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally.
Leadership means that 'the buck stops here'. Instead, Washington is shifting
the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and
Grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.
Americans deserve better."
SENATOR BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, MARCH 2006
Back,
Right, I called for high taxes on those earning more than $10M. Mitt Romney made $20M, and paid a bit under 14%. that' not right, and doesn't stimulate the economy. If his marginal rate was let's say, 70%, he would be forced to find a deductible expenditure to avoid paying a huge tax hit.
I don't think investing in (shuffling) existing stocks helps the economy at all. Tax it. Encourage creation of new business with new employees. Make that a favored activity. Have high taxes, but make lots of generous deductions for favorable activities, like creating American jobs.
DR821, TBenton,
Thanks for the enlightening us.
After more than 30 years of tax breaks for the wealthy, what is there to show for it? Less jobs in America and more jobs shipped overseas, loss of employee health care plans, benefits and pensions while the CEO's receive full health care and bonuses. I mean really, why are so many people so ready to continue to give these guys tax breaks when all that money just stagnates in their pockets and they laugh at the rest of us as they become richer and take more from us. It would be funny if it weren't so sad. People claim that higher taxes on the wealthy will hurt small businesses - that's been the claim for over 30 years, but where are the jobs that these tax breaks were supposed to create? China and other countries! So how is going over this cliff and sliding into a recession going to help small businesses? It won't - it will benefit large corporations who'll eat up those small businesses since in a recession, people who don't have money can't buy stuff! So small businesses will fail, Congress will push to bail out the same old large corporations and banks "because we cannot possible allow THEM to fail" and the wealthy will get more wealthy and the poor more poor!
When are the Amrican people going to realize that Obama wants us to go over the cliff? He is in a win/win situation. He gets our economy to collapse, (redistribution of wealth on a global scale) and he gets to blame it on the Republicans. Brilliant! I've never considered him to be an idiot, just the people who voted for him. He fooled you once, shame on him! But twice?! Shame on you!
All obama does is campaign,he hasn't stopped since 2008.He belongs to the theory of(If you can't dazzle the people with brilliance ,baffle them with B.S.) and he's done a good job with B.S.Bush had a democratic congress and senate,most of who are still there(reid,pelosi,boxer,feinstein),and a lot more that should be replaced.obama is the perfect example of democratic party symbol,A JACKASS. Samples of cuts 1 cut politicians pay, benefits and pensions, (guaranteed after 5yrs.) pay fed senator 190000 2 limit terms and expenses 3 cut out 2 nd generation welfare 4 tax ceo,s on bonus's 5 flat rate for income tax 10 to 15% with no deductions 6 eliminate all pork from all bills (reid bridge to nowhere,CT bus way and train cost approx $9000 sq. inch 7 shrink some gov't agency's 8 eliminate 25% of gov. cars that's all I could come with for now will take suggestions
Time for more propaganda, but running out of time to resolve the problem........
What exactly are you planning to CUT from the budget Mr Obama?
Total Receipts (according to White House data)
Credits Debits Difference
2001 1,991,082 1,862,846 128,236
2002 1,853,136 2,010,894 -157,758
2003 1,782,314 2,159,899 -377,585
2004 1,880,114 2,292,841 -412,727
2005 2,153,611 2,471,957 -318,346
2006 2,406,869 2,655,050 -248,181
2007 2,567,985 2,728,686 -160,701
2008 2,523,991 2,982,544 -458,553
2009 2,104,989 3,517,677 -1,412,688
2010 2,162,724 3,456,213 -1,293,489
2011 2,303,466 3,603,061 -1,299,595
2012 2,468,599 3,795,547 -1,326,948
2013 2,901,956 3,803,364 -901,408
2014 3,215,293 3,883,095 -667,802
2015 3,450,153 4,059,866 -609,713
2016 3,680,085 4,328,840 -648,755
2017 3,919,275 4,531,723 -612,448
2012-2017 are estimates
Notice the INCREASE in SPENDING in the Obama years
Look like Barry found his Grecian Formula again............. maybe it's leached into his brain?
Bravo JimSpence,Bravo
Beside to listen to the president , I research through this amazing Internet and is ease to find the correlation of the attitude of Obama with their big donors and fat Union bosses toward the Republicans in congress.Obama must please first and foremost to the far left, in order to have their continue support and then take care of the rest of the nation. For Obama is not about the Fiscal Cliff is about to political score, there is nothing serious in the interview with Obama , all is about blame game and more populist measures , just kick the can down the road , one more time, not real solutions, we are getting to the point that we cant manage our growing deficit and national debt, no even confiscating the wealth of the millionaires will do anything. Obama is holding hostage our future generations, the problem is Obama do not care about the future.
So kill the middle class because your all stubborn mules, that makes a whole lot'a sense.
How many times does the GOP have to hold Americans hostage and supporters still vote GOP? Simply too much to fathom. Dems hold their ground one time, hopefully they don't cave in showing the true colors of the GOP and these are the comments you have? All you can do is repeat fnc kock TP propaganda?
starsailing
OK Gilligan, here’s the pledge.
http://www.atr.org/userfiles/Congressional_pledge(1).pdf
Show me where it says they won’t specifically raise taxes on the rich.
It doesn’t. It says it won’t raise marginal income tax rates for ALL individuals and/or businesses and oppose any net reduction or elimination of deductions and credits, unless matched dollar for dollar by further reducing tax rates.
Try to keep up Spanky....DOH!
Can we please put this fairy tale to bed? You can find an IRS summary of 2010 (latest year available) tax returns here
The top 1% (making $340K or more) made approximately $1.5T. Projected 2013 deficit is $0.9T.
If the top 1% were taxed at 100% we would have a budget surplus! If the top 1% were taxed at 60% we could balance the budget. Simple math, check it out!
The American people are all for Obama's tax proposal by a large majority. The Republicans ARE TO BLAME demanding the limit be raised to those over $250K. ENOUGH WITH THE BS.
The Republicants are holding to their vow to take the country down before bowing to taxing the Rich. So much for those so-called "patriots".
This should come as no surprise. Remember that Mitt said he didn't care about the 47% and we know that all the republican'ts Do Nothings care about are the rich and their next campaign contribution. Republicans have become scum of the earth! If no deal is reached because all they care about is their GOD NORQUIST I hope some of you denser right wingers will face a little reality!
SmBusOwnerinNY,
You have a good idea with a stimulus on higher taxes with larger tax deductions for those creating new business and new jobs. I believe that is a good initiative for renewed growth. The problem is; Washington would never reduce the tax level once the economy gets healthy. They would want that continued high tax revenue to be filtered into their own greedy pockets. We can't trust Washington with that kind of money and power. Washington has never shown good fiscal responsibility or a real care for nurturing the middle class. Even today, Obama's initiatives don't do justice for maintaining the middle class. He doesn't get it, along with the rest of the Washington elite. Otherwise, great idea!
Thomas Blue:
You’re an ignorant coward. You don’t have the intelligence or the integrity to answer a single argument I made, or the courage to admit that you made a mistake.
You are so ignorant, that you assume that I’m a Republican based on nothing more then my arguments against you.
I don’t believe for a moment that anyone in your family was allowed to serve in the U.S. military, because they do not accept inbred mongrels in the ranks.
Jump off, loser.
Don't forget...you are in the minority! Most Americans agree that the GOP will be to blame if we go over the cliff, most Americans believe Obama is trying to do what's best for the middle class, and most believe the GOP is simply pandering to the wealthy who line their pockets.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/27/the-fiscal-cliff_n_2371667.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/27/us-usa-fiscal-poll-idUSBRE8BQ0J620121227
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-obama-democrats-fiscal-cliff-poll-20121226,0,7838976.story
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-12-27/news/sns-rt-us-usa-fiscal-pollbre8bq0j6-20121227_1_fiscal-cliff-ipsos-americans
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/12/13/167159547/on-fiscal-cliff-majority-of-public-sides-with-democrats-pew-poll-says
Unless you're one of those who still follows the GOP pollsters who claimed Romney was winning the election. How'd that work out for you?
Can you tell me what is the percentage in increase of taxes , and how much Obama will get ,versus how much is going to increase spending. By the way Obama said increase taxes to millionaires and billionaires not small business and people making over 250 K. In two months Obama will ask in unpatriotic way ( this is how he called Bush) to increase the debt ceiling. Get serious if you can.
Do you know that confiscatory taxes lead to lower collection. Check it out!
DR,
It's never going to happen in the first place. I just wanted to make the case for it.
I think taxes can be wound and unwound, but it doesn't seem to happen at the right times. We never learn from history.
History shows that high taxes on high earners promote the middle class, and don't hurt the higher earners that much. Rich people get richer no matter what. Low taxes on high income doesn't help the middle class, but helps high earners a LOT.
Oaskar,
Don't be such an conspiracy theorist. Did you see the movie Lincoln? Politics is very messy. There is no way that Obama has some grand plan orchestrated by the "unions" or anybody else. He's been thwarted at every move for his whole presidency. I'd hold a grudge too. I'd be nastier about it. He's bloody polite.
Unpatriotic is threatening not to pay the credit card bill for items the country has already purchased.
That's what the debt ceiling is, nothing. more.
One of my economics professors used to tell us how much it bothered her to overhear uneducated people talk and make assumptions about the economy. I feel the same way!! We can tell by many of these posts that many Americans don't have a grasp of economic principals. Of course Americans are ignorant! Most of us have no education in econ besides the semester they took in HS 20 years ago. Please don't attempt to substitute the "news" for an education. Acceptance is the first step people! Let's face it, you don't know @!$%# from shinola.
Don't you know that a flat tax where everyone pays exactly the same income tax percentage is RACIST...?
Just ask a Democrat...they'll explain it in detail.
Poor GOPextinct...
I see you have little to think about, perhaps you can answer us this...
There are only 3 ways to earn an income...
1. From businesses who offer an individual a job at a set wage or an individual/group who the business gives gives a ROI based on what they invest with that company. You know, public and private pension plans, IRA's 401 & 501K plans etc.
2. Government handouts and transfer payments that are obtained from both corporate and individual taxes and fees.
3. Government employment whose sole source of wages and to the government is soley dependant on private sector taxpayers and the majority of private sector businesses and individuals paying other collected fees and taxes. Think about it, without the private sector, either the FED will need to boost their rate of printing to pay for the handouts and pay for gov't employees.
Yes, Obama and company needs to understand where the cash comes from to run America.
-------------------------------
My child beverly, I see that you still embrace the calling of the typical namecaller and cyberbully. I would wager that you don't even think before you talk or type. With all of todays multiple shootings occurring by a very few mentally unbalanced individuals, don't you ever think that these individuals at one time were bullied (for the most part) by people like yourself and the roselle redhead until we read about their murderous rampages?
BTW - When is Obama going to learn to stop blaming others. Seems that he is the first POTUS we have ever had that attributes everything that is wrong to someone else or to an event. Really sad that he has sold 51% of the populace that by only slowing the rate of spending and increasing tax rates for the top 2% we can have a return to growth and prosperit at an annualized GDP growth of 2% or less.
No. What's unpatriotic is the ridiculous explosion of deficit spending since Obama took office. Tripling our national debt one term in office is unpatrtiotic. Tripling out national debt while doling out rewards to political cronies, doling out billions to campaign contributors using "green energy companies" as fronts, and doling out foreign aid to our enemies is unpatriotic.
If Obama is such a student of history, why doesn't he understand that bribing your enemies not to attack you didn't work for the Romans either?
oh...the "appeal to the majority" logical fallacy never gets old..
the "majority" of Americans are "C students" at best...that's the definition of the bell curve. do you really think that "C Students" have what it takes to make good decisions? lol. you gotta be kidding me
I can't believe it !!! What a flip flop. Let me give you the whole quote, I guess you are picking only what is more convenient to support your misleading narrative.Obama is unpatriotic under his own terms. Obama oppose to increase the debt ceiling, I hope Republicans listen Obama and do the right thing.
Pres. Obama......"The problem is, is that the way Bush has done it over the last eight years is to take out a credit card from the Bank of China in the name of our children, driving up our national debt from $5 trillion for the first 42 presidents — #43 added $4 trillion by his lonesome, so that we now have over $9 trillion of debt that we are going to have to pay back — $30,000 for every man, woman and child. That’s irresponsible. It’s unpatriotic."
SmBusOwnerinNY
So is your "small business" a hot dog stand? Because you seem to not have much of a clue how things work. If Mitt Romney had to pay 70% tax on profit made from money he RISKED in the stock market why the @!$%# would he or anyone else take that risk? Where do you think businesses get the capitol to expand??? Name just one major company that got that big WITHOUT raising capitol through the release of stocks AND their subsequent resale. If people weren't buying and selling stocks their value, and the value of the company they are a share of, would remain stagnant. How does a successful business expand if it's value is set in stone at the IPO?
We WANT people to invest their money in stocks, your "solution" would just push even more money off shore. Another example of the "cure" causing more problems than the "disease".
And just exactly when in history has regulatory and other costs been SOOOOOO high? You can learn any "lesson" you want from history when you willfully choose to ignore LARGE parts of it.
J R,
When President Obama took office our National Debt was $10 Trillion so tripling it would mean it is now at $30 Trillion but it is only $16 Trillion, a 60% increase not a 300% increase.
S Williams
I'm sure you can tell us where you came up with your trillions of dollars? I know plenty of people whom you would consider rich and I can tell you that they don't hide their money in a mattress. Maybe in your small mind you are equating the wealth with corporations. The fact that many of the large corporations are sitting on profits because they don't have a handle on what this government is going to do. As you are aware the bankrupcy courts are loaded with corporations that made bad investments and not understanding where the economy is going in the future.
Oh I see you are just plain stupid. What ever we spend on your education is a complete waste of our tax dollars. PS... weathy people are not corporations.
GTFO,
The only presidents to triple the debt were Roosevelt during WWII and Reagan-Bush during PEACETIME, $1T to nearly $4T. Obama has only increased it 60%, and that was right after the largest economic crash since the Great Depression. Maybe $2T can be laid at Obama's feet.
Some history:
http://zfacts.com/p/gross-national-debt.html
Oskar, I didn't flip flop. Obama may have in his speech, but I didn't.
Our debt ceiling is just paying the bill on the credit card we've already charged. We already approved the spending.
oskar,
The Debt Ceiling increase is only needed to pay for what has already been spent.
It's not like they pass a bill to increase the Debt Ceiling before they pass spending bills.
It is a political game to even have a debt ceiling. The House (where spending bills must originate) controls the spending so if they don't want a higher debt then stop passing appropriation bills that calls for more spending than projected revenues.
They (House Membership) currently pass spending that is greater than our revenues then want to deny an increase to the debt ceiling … what a joke.
Small Business and Kahn Kubla
I suggest instead of skipping reading my post #1.33 you should have read it and gained some insite into how taxes, employment and the economy really work.
Be very careful using GDP as an economic indicator. During the 4 years of Carter the AVERAGE GDP growth was was 11%. Why it was so high was because of the double digit inflation.
Under Clinton he averaged a 5.2% GDP Growth.
1991 - GDP +3.3% - we were in a recession
1992 - GDP +5.8%
1993 - GDP +5.1% - Clinton signs Tax increase on the wealthy.
1994 - GDP +6.3% The effect of the tax increase begins to be felt when when the wealthy actually paid for the first time when they filed in April, begin to pay more for the Quarterly withholding.
1995 - GDP +4.7% Republicans took over Congress. At the end of 1995 they pass a bill restoring income tax bracket indexing based on the Inflation rate. Like Clinton's Retroactive tax increase on the wealthy, the republican indexing is applied retroactively to 1995 tax tables.
1996 - GDP +5.7%. Unemployment in May of 1996 was 5.6% and drops to 5.3% in June, does return to 5.5 and then starts a steady decline until August 1997 at 4.8%..
1997 - GDP +6.3%. August 1997, Republicans propose and and Clinton agrees to cutting the Capital gains from 28% to 20%. While the GDP was largely uneffected by this additional change Unemployment was. Unemployment drops faster, from 4.8% to 3.8% in April of 2000. The GDP hummed along at an average of 6.1%.
Increasing taxes hurts the economy and job creation.
Clinton did it with an GDP at 5.1% and after the effects were in the GDP dropped from a high of 6.3% to 4.7%. Today's economy is a GDP of 1.7% - 2.1% which that "growth" is heavily supported by 3 sets of Quantitative Easing (QE).
Are you sure you want to do the same thing Clinton did by raising the taxes on the wealthy on this economy?
Back,
I've made a living at my business for 8 years. I know how it works. I've never had the luxury to pay the top rate, or sneak income as capital gains instead of earned income, but I pay. Not a lot I might say. My AGI was a bit under $250K last year and I paid about 19% in Federal Income taxes. I think that's pretty reasonable. Not high, that's for sure.
I risked a lot. Every business owner takes risks. How much I pay in tax doesn't affect how I run my business. It affects financing and money shuffling with my accountant, but not the business operations themselves. Certainly, 3% or 5% doesn't affect anything. If I could control my income within 25% I'd feel like a genius.
BTW, in 1960, the highest marginal tax rate was 91%. So, yes, things used to be more burdensome.
Who is ignoring what history, Backcountry?
Be a democrat, no commonsense necessary. Matter if fact we don't want you to have any, you'll be easier to
traincontrol.DB,
The president set the spending agenda. You guys say that all the time when blaming Obama.
So see here: How do you figure the shape of the debt curve from 1945 to 1980 changed directions?
http://zfacts.com/p/gross-national-debt.html
At least Obama admits the problem is the taxing of the wealthy, for about $29 Billion in additional revenue. That's a start.
Now, if Obama will simply drop the tax on the rich, he can get a deal, avert a recession, and avert bilking all Americans for an additonal $600 Billion.
Dennis
No, Dennis.
The debt ceiling increase is to pay for what is promised to be spent. The expiration is another opportunity to re-examine the spending and cut out spending that is really does nothing. Earlier there was a post of an organizations analysis of federal spending showing $124 Billion spent on social programs that really do nothing.
There is absolutely no reason to spend some of this money except that it lines the pockets of some politician's supporters.
The US Government needs to be spending only what it takes in unless our National Security is in question, or we experience a major loss in Revenue like 2008. Deficits should never be farther than the eye can see like they are.
Thank you for the insight Gabriel. Very helpful. Why would you bother to type that?
Don't budge President Obama!
I worked as a nurse for over forty years. I cared for people on Medicare, Medicaid, those with no insurance and those with insurance, that paid 100%, of their bill. I did not treat one patient, any different than the other. Neither did my colleagues. As a matter of fact, I NEVER looked, to see any patients method of pay because, it did not matter. Now, I am sixty-seven! I have to gulp, whenii say, I am a "senior citizen." I paid my dues, along with a majority of others, who are over sixty-five. I worked weekends, holidays, every shift and took call. I can honestly say, my combined income for all the years, I worked, does not come up, to a million dollars! I tried saving in, an IRA and 403b, while I was working. Unfortunately, deregulation of banks and Wall Street, wipe out most of my savings. I am sure Mitt and the Koch brothers , were recipients, of a hefty amount, of what many of us lost. They had the power and resources, to put their money (and mine) in the Cayman Islands or a Swiss Bank, etc. Now, Congress wants to take, what little morsel of money, I EARNED and begrudge me, a decent end of life. I do not have a dime in savings. I got cancer and, had to pay my bills. My home, that I paid 20% down, is now devalued, to less than what I owe. Bank dereugulation, that GW! And here is the topper, the Republicans, who were given a mandate in November, still want to take away, even more.
Thank God for President Obama! I would rather see my taxes go up, than let the wealthy, keep taking from us. I can honestly say, I EARNED what I receive, and that is a very little amount. I did not inherit it from my daddy or ruin other peoples lives by buying companies and then selling them for parts. My husband died at the age of forty-four, so I do not have someone to count on, for support.
The day will come, when I cross over and meet, with the creator. I have a feeling, there will be a lot of people, who will be paying their dues then! Being the caring person that I am, I will volunteer to help them. You can call me a "Socialist" but at least I know I can look God in the eyes and say, I tried. I cared. I shared. I gave. I needed. I wanted. I loved. I am lucky to have been born in America. And lastly, I am happy, I was able to see, beyond the greed and help those in need. I came from poverty and I may be back there, once again. This is what I know and all you wealthy people need to learn, YOU CANNOT TAKE IT WITH YOU!
You cannot buy respect. You cannot buy class. You cannot buy love. You cannot but forgiveness. You cannot buy your way into Gods heart. You can go to church all you want and you can say I believe. You can profess and teach religion and act the paragon of virtue but He knows. You CANNOT TAKE WITH YOU! And YOU CANNOT FOOL HIM! I am not a religious person, I am a spiritual one. If anyone believes you can act the fool here on Earth and then buy you way into the other side, He has news for you!
Yes DB,
By definition, the money has already been spent, or the bill wouldn't be due.
The time to debate spending is the time that you authorize it.
Did it ever occur to any of you that those in the current administration you voted for are also in the 2%? The same people supposedly pulling for the 98%? You think they're really on your side!? LOL!!
yesterday i asked whether the President of the United States would appear on MTP or whether the partisan political hack would show up.
we now know which one showed up.
i wonder if he ever will truly represent all people or just the ones that hold him up as God.
Ah the non sense of the teabaggers. Obama proposes requiring insurance companies to consider contraception a health issue and he's king of the giveaways yet think Bush's 1st term tax cut costing 400 billion a year from the treasury and issuing everyone who paid a dime $300 to $1200 check one month after his second win is not? What about Romneys 500 billion tax cut giveaway? Promising someone paying $10,000 a year in taxes a $2,000 gift is the real giveaway. Sorry but when your party wants to throw an extra 200 billion a year free money at the military that current military leaders neither want or need as Romney proposed someone has to pay taxes. It's republican wars and drug plans exploding the deficit, let them pay their share. Most of Obama's, "giveaways" costs us nothing while republican giveaways are what have gotten us a 16 trillion dollar debt.
D B,
If that were true then we would not be in immediate danger of defaulting on our debt.
All we would have to do is not spend and everything would be okay – right? NOT !
Moshula, I am a veteran and I would not accept anything Obama stands for. Your pic of Veterans for Obama is a disgrace to the United States Military veterans and those who have given their life for this once great country. You are an abysmal deranged individual if you don't understand how Obama has been the worse president in our history. Good luck with your vision. Bet your one of the 47% Romney was talking about.
Why are republican claims always so absurd? Romneys real rate was 10.3% in 2010 had he not bumped it up voluntarily to meet his 14% target he made while running to be president. Do you people realise how insane you sound when you use examples of what if the rich had to pay 70% or 100% in taxes when they pay so little? Instead of using examples of why people like Romney shouldn't pay 70% in taxes explain why they should pay 10% on 21 million in income as Romney did. If it's to create jobs I'd love to know how half his wealth sitting in a Caymans account creates jobs.
So, if I'm understanding this, what you're saying is that the national debt before Obama was sworn in was 10T (it wasn't, but for the sake of argument I'll let that slide...) and it's now 16T after his first term. From this I can infer that it took 43 previous presidential administrations to spend us into a 10T dollar debt but Obama alone spent an additional 6T more, an increase in the national debt of 60%. To be clear, you're saying that Obama's administration alone incurred 60% as much debt as all 43 preceeding Presidential administrations combined...? Is that your point?
And you think this man has the answers to what ails our economy? Seriously?
Let's not forget that Senator Obama voted to fund the wars included in his predecessor's spending as well...so it can also be demonstrated that, as a Senator, he contributed to the national debt even before taking office as Presdident as well.
I'd also like to point out that Senator Obama called raising the debt ceiling a "failure of leadership" and "unpatriotic"...a position he now seems to have wholeheartedly abandoned.
J R,
So you acknowledge that … You were wrong
.
National Debt Jan 2009 = $10,699,804,864,612.13
So it is less than a 60% increase
http://nationaldebtbusters.blogspot.com/2009/01/newest-national-debt-statistics-posted.html
I would just like to point out that the loss in revenue as well as the doling out of cash in the form of "tax refunds" to those who hadn't even paid income tax during the last 4 years is not Bush's fault, it's Obama's. The Bush tax cuts (and their giveaways) expired. Obama renewed the tax rates (and giveaways), thus rendering them HIS contribution to increasing the national debt which he so deceptively attributes to Bush.
Make no mistake...the Bush tax cuts expired. The Bush "giveaways" ended. What has been in place for the past few years are THE OBAMA TAX CUTS and the Obama giveaways.
I acknowledge that, like all good attorneys, I made statements intended to incite a response so that I could turn the response back on it's proffer. I absolutely intended to use someone's rebuttal of my statement to get THEM to make the case that Obama has deficit spent us into more debt than any single President preceeding him and his adminstration alone contributed more to the national debt than all presidents up to and including Bill Clinton.
Additionally, if you want to be taken seriously then you should use credible sources such as the Treasury Dept or the GAO for your 'numbers' rather than relying on blogs.
TO understand dealing/negotiating with President Obama it would be useful to consider his perfomance in the first debate. He was thoughtful, relentlessssly polite and clear on the isssues. I thought it was brillliant strategy in that it gave him a chance to display himself as a man not a sweaty used car salesman. IT also fixed him in the public imagination as a thoughtful, reasonable person. WHich seeems to be what he is.
Wish I could run my business and home budget the way the fed's run the country's budget. I want to spend, spend, spend but I can't. So I have to CUT spending. BTW smbus, what don't u understand?
That's right Barry, keep BLAMING someone else...... when it all falls through.... you end up with EVERYTHING you want..... increased taxes across the board (INCLUDING those making under $250,000..... LIAR), reduced spending for military & unemployment...... that will bring blame on the Republicans.... then you can FORCE THROUGH your legislations to bankrupt what's left of the US............
It's easy to blame others....... a "real" leader..... finds the way to resolve conflict for the better.....
Guess a community organizer doesn't have that kind of training............ all he knows is forcing change the Chicago way............
GTFO
oh, I get it now.... you're a bloodsucking lawyer.
Wow, reading these posts has convinced me of one thing: there has never before been such an cacophony of pure vitriol and hatred of the American people as this current crop of self-entitled, narcissistic, sore-losers, whiners and blowhards who identify with today's republican party.
Those who don't agree with you on women's rights you call murderers, those who don't agree with you on the economy you call takers who want free stuff and are jealous of those who have more. You cry about death panels, but endorse the 'natural' euthanasia of poverty for the elderly. You scream that the family working three and four jobs to make ends meet aren't paying their share, yet you'll defend to the end the right of the wealthy to poison our rivers and pollute our air without consequence. You advocate for the free market because it is your last great hope for gaining untold riches by wresting money from those who actually worked for it.
There is no point in arguing with you because your starting point is your hatred and disgust for your fellow man, and your only goal is to prove to us that we are evil, jealous, murderous free-loaders. Your vision for American is to subjugate women, deport Mexicans, stop blacks from voting, make healthcare the privilege of the wealthy, destroy our government's ability to do anything except make war, and load our schools up with guns and religion. You think the 2nd amendment is the inalienable right to commit treason against our government, you vote en masse to secede from the Union, you stockpile guns and salivate at the possibility of civil war - all the while proclaiming your patriotism. Your only problem with fascism is that the wrong people were in charge.
Your belief that compromise is evil is a fart in a crowded room. Your suspicion, paranoia, and outright hatred of your fellow man is a brown stain on the fabric of what was once a noble party. You will not be satisfied until everyone else is as miserable and unfulfilled as you.
Happy new year.
Gabriel,
There's a good chance your home budget is in worse shape than the Federal Government.
Our national debt is about 100% of our GDP.
How much is your mortgage? Is it more than your income? Probably so. If it is, your home finances are worse than our government's.
Your bank gave you that loan, based on your income, and future capacity for income.
Do you think you alone have a better capacity to pay that debt back, or the whole country to pay back its debt?
Right, the whole country.
So shut up, our country is less broke than you are. We do not have a debt problem.
Steve: Whiner in Chief.
If Lincoln had been more like Obama, slavery would have lasted much longer. Lincoln dealt with the Democrats face to face and it was abolished by votes, when he didn't seem to have them - leadership
Obama has chosen the cowardly attack through the media. Pathetic and weak.
SmBusOwnerinNY
OK Small, I’ll play.
So, when will we debate this?
The federal government made at least $125 billion in improper payments in 2011.
Or this?
Washington spends $92 billion on corporate welfare (excluding TARP).
Or this?
Washington spends $25 billion annually maintaining unused or vacant federal properties.
Or this?
The Congressional Budget Office published a “Budget Options” series identifying more than $140 billion in potential spending cuts.
Or this?
Examples from multiple Government Accountability Office (GAO) reports of wasteful duplication include 342 economic development programs; 130 programs serving the disabled; 130 programs serving at-risk youth; 90 early childhood development programs; 75 programs funding international education, cultural, and training exchange activities; and 72 safe water programs. This report identifies more than $100 billion to $200 billion in annual government spending on 1,500 different programs that are wasteful, duplicative, or inefficient.
Or this?
The Institute of Medicine reports that health care fraud is estimated to cost taxpayers more than $750 billion annually.
Or this?
My favorite yet none of you Libbies ever have the courage to challenge it or defend it.
Government auditors spent the past five years examining all federal programs and found that 22 percent of them–costing taxpayers a total of $123 billion annually–fail to show any positive impact on the populations they serve.
Here is the link:
http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/omb/expectmore/index.html
Interestingly, the site was created by Bush in 2003 to identify all the social programs that are a waste of our money. The Barrack Hussein administration cancelled the program in 2009.
How can you continue to insist that there is nothing we can do as far as cutting massive spending? Any parochial examination of this data proves we can eliminate more that 20% of our government and no one will notice.
This massive waste, fraud, abuse and corruption is even more evidence of our need to demand that every piece of legislation have an “Sunset Clause” added to it to demand that each bill is reviewed in 2 to no longer than 10 years. this will also eliminate all the nonsense legislation such as the 74 year old Farmers Bill that everyone is in a tizzy about claiming milk will necessarily go to $8 per gallon.
You Libbies need to stop putting your full faith and confidence in the government to care for you your whole life. It’s embarrassing watching so many groveling to the government.
IT’S OUR MONEY!!!!!!!!
OUR INVESTMENT IN THE CORPORATION KNOWN AS THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS BEING MALINVESTED!!!!!!!!
It’s time to use the power We The People were given in the Declaration of Independence and fox our criminal government.
Lincoln was holding the country together.
Obama is fighting for a 3% tax increase.
Comparing the two in ludicrous.
In the movie, the newspapers were a major part of public opinion and helped turn the tide, so in that sense, Lincoln also used the media.
How else would we know anything about what's going on? Of course, it's the right thing to do.
Oh put a sock in it, SmBusOwnerinNY. MY MONEY IS MY MONEY YOU LIBERAL COMMUNIST. And I will NEVER support MORE funding (MORE OF MY MONEY IN TAXES) of you and your socialist ilks NEVER ENDING campaign of SPEND SPEND SPEND on FAILED POLICIES! Let's start with LBJ's "Great Society" that was supposed to have stopped poverty. Oh I'm sorry... POVERTY now is the highest EVER under Obama's watch, and since the DEMOCRATS have had majority of control of Washington since they won both chambers of Congress in the 2006 mid-terms. And then we had that FAILED near trillion dollar "stimulus" bill in 2009 that was to have created millions of "green energy" and "shovel ready" jobs that NEVER materialized and on and on and ON with you people's FAILURES. And then you have the gall to blame the GOP! Pathetic!!!!!!!!!!
I am curious how you believe that we don't have a debt problem. This is from wiki just because I am being lazy, but I am sure it can be confirmed by government sources. And considering the year it would have had to have been on hand of 2009, it is much higher now. Unless I am mistaken our actual obligations are in debt to the tune of over 4 times the GDP.
Unfunded obligations excluded
The U.S. government is obligated under current law to mandatory payments for programs such as Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. The Government Accountability Office (GAO) projects that payouts for these programs will significantly exceed tax revenues over the next 75 years. The Medicare Part A (hospital insurance) payouts already exceed program tax revenues, and social security payouts exceeded payroll taxes in fiscal 2010. These deficits require funding from other tax sources or borrowing.[32] The present value of these deficits or unfunded obligations is an estimated $45.8 trillion. This is the amount that would have had to be set aside in 2009 in order to pay for the unfunded obligations which, under current law, will have to be raised by the government in the future. Approximately $7.7 trillion relates to Social Security, while $38.2 trillion relates to Medicare and Medicaid. In other words, health care programs will require nearly five times more funding than Social Security. Adding this to the national debt and other federal obligations would bring total obligations to nearly $62 trillion.[33] However, these unfunded obligations are not counted in the national debt.
The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has indicated that: "Future growth in spending per beneficiary for Medicare and Medicaid – the federal government’s major health care programs – will be the most important determinant of long-term trends in federal spending. Changing those programs in ways that reduce the growth of costs – which will be difficult, in part because of the complexity of health policy choices – is ultimately the nation’s central long-term challenge in setting federal fiscal policy."[34]
Jim,
I thought you were going to say something looking at how long that diatribe was...but no.
The list of things would be great to debate. Let Congress debate them instead of wasting time passing legislation on abortion or the overturn of Obamacare or other totally useless things. If they cared about solving problems, they would.
Than you get mad for some reason and say:
....which doesn't follow at all. Who's doing that? Do you know anyone who grovels to the government? ....because I don't. It's a myth.
You're right, it's our money, indirectly because it's our government. It is us. If they are criminal, it is us that are criminals.
If people spent as much time as they do here bitching about the other guy, doing something to make their country better, things would be better. I take blame for this too. I just post. I don't run for office. It's us, not them.
glad to get a rise out of you jhawke.
I stand by what I said.
If you don't pay what your country has decided you should pay, you're no patriot. You are in fact, a criminal. It's our country and contributing to it is part of your job as an American.
John,
Unfunded future obligations are pretty meaningless. You have to pay for food 8 years from now, and for your car 20 years form now, but you don't count that as part of your "debt" today.
Bringing tomorrow's debts into present debt is what is killing the Post Office. They have to fully fund NOW their future pension obligations, unlike every other part of government. It's a ploy to make a fully functioning government entity look like a failure, even though it isn't. More Republican Swine tactics to kill the Postal Service Union that was working just fine for the good of the nation. $0.45 for USPS letter, $9.50 for FedEx. Gotta kill that $0.45 thing.
I hear the whistle of Willy Coyote falling from the cliff and at midnight and one second tomorrow night we will all (except these jokers making the decisions) hear the splat! Only thing that really comes to mind....a looney tunes production.
There are always layers of wanted and unwanted outcomes.
The Democrats feel the Republicans can only hurt their party if they insist on their way. So, they really don't need to take any of their sh!t anymore.
On the otherside of it, why would the Boner and the House Republicans think they can get away from some very bad feelings by the voters if they continue to block help for the country unless the most wealthy get a tax deal they really don't need. The Boner can only let this happen if it is part of a much bigger picture, which is, how are they going to win back the entire governing of the country? Through the power of the Republican Governors, the Party is already setting up a situation wherein everyone doesn't get to vote. Where they failed the last time has shown them how to make that scenario work.
I'm just speculating so far off the radar because the Republicans must know that their behavior is very unlike real Conservatism. The country in need would always come first if they had real Conservtives in the Party.
Having been around over 80 years I have seen the power shifts and the motivations that cause them.
Whatever is really going on to generate the outcomes the parties want, the Republican party is now in the hands of people that don't think all Americans should be in on what the country does. This last election has not changed the Far Right Wing motivation. They are still on the same trip as before America made its choice in favor of Obama.
Our best hope is that the people remain strong and attentive. Taking the vote away from Americans is not going to happen unless we go to sleep and see what is no secret, the very rich and powerful own the Republican party and FOX News and they are after having dictatorial power.
We desperately need for the Real Conservatives to clean out the trash in their party so we can have an actual government of the people. We need both the Left and the Right to keep some balance and order for all the people. Did I mention that the Left has a lot to do fixing their Party, even as it is in no way as threatenig as the Repubs.
Another thought: I don't think that outside of the Bill of Rights, we can continue to see the Constitution as most see the Bible. Based on our present and a fair idea of our future, we might want to update that document. The Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independense continue to say it all. We might think about starting over from there. As an example of what i'm thinking, we should give serious thought to a better arrangement as a Supreme Court. I won't speculate on what we should do, I just know they are out of control making law and shoe-horning their rulings into the constitution.
SmBusOwnerinNY
Small, these kinds of analogies make me seriously question you being a small business owner.
We do not have a debt problem.
OK, if not, why don’t we all just pay our national Debt off? This will only cost every American $52,120 or each taxpayer $142,795. How many Americans are in a position to do this?
Contrary to our government, Americans eventually pay their house off. For the past, well over, 230 years we as a nation have carried debt. This is not uncommon, but when our debt exceeds our revenue we are in trouble, just as you are in trouble when your expenses exceed your income, be it private or your business.
You don’t keep borrowing more money to pay your mortgage as you spend more on unprofitable endeavors, you earn enough to pay your monthly mortgage payment and eventually you own your home. Our nation is in no position to be owned by us for a long, long, long time.
My above post shows the massive amount of waste, fraud, abuse and corruption that our government creates. Yet, you allow it.
Why?
SmBusOwner: you and your petulant left wing ilk aren't worthy of getting a rise out of me. I pay my taxes and I always WILL pay my taxes. So your emotion-driven hysteria is as useless as your head. My idea of "patriotism" is different than yours...starting with property ownership (money, investments, etc.). My idea of "patriotism" is NOT punishing the successful and those who started their own businesses for FAILED WASHINGTON SPENDING AND POLICIES...or as your guy Obama said "you didn't create that business...someone else created it for you." And make no mistake, I'd gladly pack my bags and haul A the minute you left wingnut neo-communists try to raise it to 50% and up. Even socialist France backed off the 75% tax on the "rich" when they started leaving in droves. There are a LOT of people out there seriously pondering retiring overseas (many already have) if this nation continues to go further left/socialist/communist. Keep it up...like the mindless, childish, temper-tantrum name calling you petulant liberals spew on this forum against those who DO NOT THINK LIKE YOU. My presence and those who have opinions and beliefs like mine UPSET you people on the left. Well tuff tiddie said the kitty. Now go pound sand!
@ Moshulu: Clearly you were in a coma during the Reagan and W. Bush years then.
SmBusOwnerinNY
And how do you suppose we shall come up with 45 trillion dollars in the future when they can't even agree about 2. You buy a car with a payment. That payment you figure into your expenses. You don't go out and spend all of your future car payments and then hope to get a raise to cover it. These funds were stolen by Congress to fund their spending habits. And for your information 60 trillion dollars does not exist in the world.
You need to consider some things.
The people with the means have the ability to simply leave the country and leave it more broke. And what should keep them here if they can survive very comfortably elsewhere. You, nor the masses OWN them. You, nor the masses OWN their property. And yes money is property. You can try to legislate the stealing of their property, but in the end they do have the choice to just leave and go live with John Galt.
When, not if, but when all these bills come due and the government cannot borrow non-existent money to fund these obligations, all social programs will cease to exist. No more SS. No more Medicare. No more welfare. No more schools. No more Police or Fire. No more National Defense. All will be gone in order to pay interest on current debt.
You can't tax our way out of this problem. Perhaps instead of thinking about next year, think about twenty years from now and how to solve those problems. And quite honestly, yours is not the way.
Spence,
Just like we can't "just pay off" our mortgages, neither can our government pay off it's debt.
From WWII to 1980, we did pay down our debt from 125% of GDP to 35%. Somebody named Reagan changed that trend.
http://zfacts.com/p/gross-national-debt.html
I've been paying off debt in my company for a couple years now. Good enough times, I can do it. It feels good, but I doubt here and there whether it s a good use of the money. Could I reinvest that in something to grow the business? Probably. Just like our country, money is really cheap right now. Maybe it's better to invest it to achieve growth. Growth that will make more money down the road. It's very analogous. Pay down debt? Invest in the future?
2007:
Tax Revenue: $2.4 Trillion
Federal Spending: $2.7 Trillion
2012 (Projected):
Tax Revenue: $2.4 Trillion
Federal Spending: $3.5 Trillion
So if we simply returned to 2007 spending levels we would only have a deficit of about $300 Billion (and get me there and I will be the FIRST person to support taxes on EVERYBODY to make up the difference).
But look at the data above and tell me again how this is not a Government Spending problem? Tell me again how Obama has not significantly increased government spending and wants to increase more? Tell me again how Obama cares about our country and is concerned about our debt? Sorry, facts clarify everything.
I'd love to keep discussing, but I've got dinner plans with the Family. Hope to stop back later.
Smbusowner: There is NO WAY you own a small business when you can't differentiate a debt from a debt ratio?
Yes our debt went from 125% of GDP to 35% of GDP but NOT BECAUSE WE PAID DOWN DEBT!! The ratio decreased because the ECONOMY EXPANDED!! Big difference and is what is so sad about the lemmings that support Obama. They don't understand the GOAL is economic growth. Economic growth can fix ALL problems (and, BTW, is the ONLY reason Clinton was able to balance the budget by Republicans forcing controlled government spending and we also saw significant economic growth which brought in more tax revenues). If we were to balance our budget AND expand the economy our debt as a percentage of GDP would decline EVEN IF WE DID NOT PAY OUR DEBT DOWN ONE PENNY!!
There is just no way you can own your own business when you don't understand tax code, you don't understand deductions, you don't understand the difference between debt and debt ratios, and you don't understand the GOAL should be economic growth and stagnating economic growth due to taxes and uncertainty.
This is what is so sad about having a president that doesn't understand economics or business. BTW, if our economy saw 4% economic growth per year versus our now stagnant 2% economic growth within two years our country would get MORE additional tax revenues WITHOUT raising taxes than what he would get WITH raising taxes on the "rich". Pathetic president and is the very reason why we are now supposed to be happy with 2% economic growth and near 8% unemployment. Pathetic.
Smbusowner: Discussing? You have no idea how economics or business even works so you have nothing to add anyway.
Think about newspaper circulation (and of course televsion coverage) in that time Ho Ho Ho!
Congress is really fiddling while watching America burn itself. All this fighting over 4.6% in tax hikes for 2% of Americans; really??? This is 2% of the entire nation; the same 2% who, through the financial institutions, crashed the economy. Any person who can think rationally and for themselves would IMMEDIATELY eliminate the tax cuts for those in the top 2%; they'd probably do if for the top 10%, if possible. Why? Because the top 2% don't create the jobs, not even the small businesses; they are simply too small to have any measurable impact on our economy. And besides, the real job creator lies in labor and consumption, not capital. As our dear President Lincoln stated (a Republican who was supported by, wait for it, Karl Marx), "labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed." The bottom 98% of Americans are the job creators because they are the source of demand for consumer goods and services; without demand, even the most useful invention would be rendered worthless. Just raise the damn taxes on the top 2%; any impact on the economy will be negligible and will pale in comparison to going off the fiscal cliff.
The next time I hear the words "we have a spending problem," I am going to puke. We don't have a spending problem, we have an ECONOMIC problem. The fiscal cliff is essentially bad-tasting medicine for our deficit problem; problem is, it will make our already-sick stomachs vomit. There is another medicine for it, one that still tastes bad but won't make us sick before it makes us better. It's essentially a "grand bargain" of sorts. To those that say we have a spending problem and ONLY a spending problem, realize that (A) spending is only up right now because of high unemployment and low economic production and (B) revenues are currently at their lowest ratio to GDP in decades. When the recession ends (sometime in 2014-15), deficits will decline to perhaps $400 billion; problem is, that we'll soon be swamped with increased spending for entitlements. We have a spending AND revenue problem; the Bush tax cuts (for everyone) are too expensive and have to be phased out gradually; entitlement costs need to be contained to keep them solvent; and the defense budget needs proper reforms and reductions.
Here is a rational solution, one that will force both parties to bear some pain and will lower deficits in the short-term and the long-term without tanking the economy. For the tax side, rates for the top two income brackets would automatically go back up to 36% and 39.6% in 2013; rates for everybody else will stay the same until 2014=$3.3 trillion. The estate tax will go to 55% with a $3.5 million exemption; capital gains tax rates will go to around 25%, and dividend taxes will return to Clinton levels=$121 billion. Tax reform will be prioritized in 2013, based on increasing government revenues while making the tax code more competitive, progressive (aka, no broad rate cuts), and efficient. For spending, the scheduled discretionary cuts ($1 trillion) will be enacted, and the sequester cuts will be modified to a $300 billion for defense and $183 billion for social spending. Entitlements will be dealt with rapidly; the Social Security payroll tax cap will be extended to 90% of all earned income, CPI formula will be chained, the tax will increase to 14.4%, and the current payroll tax cut will sunset. As for Medicare, its payroll tax rate will increase to 4.2%; Medicare Part D cost-sharing premium will go up to 35%; Medicare will be enabled to negotiate drug prices and get a rebate from drug manufacturers; Medigap insurance will be reformed, and by 2025 all Medicare payments to providers will be bundled together. AMT will be patched but paid for by an increase in AMT rates to pay for the cost entirely; the doc fix will be extended, and unemployment insurance will be passed. Total savings=$6.3 trillion plus interest. Democrats get higher rates and revenues; Republicans get major entitlement reform and spending cuts, and we stabilize debt-to-GDP over the long haul. Good enough for ya???
So the GOP Tea Party in Congress still wants to protect wealthy WASP conservatives from paying their fair share in taxes?
Self-serving, mike-foxtrots, the lot of them!
If we fall down the Fiscal Slope and/or default yet again on the Debt Ceiling, and Wall Street reacts by taking a big tumble, I'll know who to blame: That half of Congress that wants to illogically, "shrink the size of the government," and expand on the size of the military, no matter what the cost to human lives!
Probusiness: If you want to find a lemming find a mirror. Economic growth only fixes the problem when the money you spend to create that growth equals or exceeds the return on that growth. When the trickle down theory that lowering taxes on the wealthy will grow jobs and the economy but have ended up with a massive explosion in debt under every president who's tried it I'd call that a fail. Not one single year that tax cuts have been given has our deficit been lower or our debt decreased as your theory suggests. Economic theory is just that, a theory. Don't be a lemming believing just because a text book claims cutting taxes on the wealthy grows more revenue than it loses despite real world proof that it doesn't is true merely because a book says so. Learn to think for yourself. The best and brightest economists aren't writing text books and most of them know better and know taxes are below any point to gain revenue higher than what's lost.
The laffer theory suggests a certain point is the ideal point where revenue through taxes are at an optimal. RWNJ's like yourself believe that level is zero which is clearly nonsense. Romneys real rate in 2010 was actually 10.3% had he not overpaid to meet his 14% minimum yet republicans like Ryans original plan would have eliminated all taxes on dividends, capital gains and estate taxes making Romneys rate 0%.
On a talk show in 2010 Boehner claimed the Bush tax cuts created 8 million jobs over 10 years even taking credit for jobs created under Obama. Politifact rated his claim false, noting that claiming even half these jobs occurred due to the tax cuts was dubious at best when we had the lowest job creation under Bush than any president since Eisenhower. Giving tax breaks to the rich were never promoted as creating more revenue but as creating American jobs. Clearly that doesn't happen.
Those who can't do, teach, PB.
Your know what I'm talking about. I know what I'm talking about. You can choose to believe what you want about me. That doesn't matter.
Your people F'd up a perfectly good situation with regard to the nation's overall fiscal condition. That's history, and that's a fact.
http://zfacts.com/p/gross-national-debt.html
Economic growth. Right. The Fiscal cliff, taxes, government spending cuts. How do those promote growth? Austerity doesn't work. In WWII we spent the equivalent of $10 Trillion "stimulus" in 4 years. That caused growth. You guys bitched about the measly $800B of Obama's stimulus, and no wonder it barely worked.
PB, I understand the tax code, for crying out loud. It sure sounds like you don't, or what running a business is like at all
If you did, you'd know that 3% tax on profits doesn't mean squat for running a small business. If I could control revenue within 25% in any year, I'd be really happy. 3% is in the noise, and that's only on what I earn in the end, if it ends up over $250K.
That's an odd turn of phrase from someone who supports a "teacher" turned President....
ProBusiness
Thanks for explaining growth to the unwashed masses here. It's a shame that so much needs to be explained to them.
Whenever I see someone using Steve Stofts "zfacts" as their source of information I know we're dealing with a lightweight low-informed wannabe.
I've seen Stofts use Time, Newsweek and Mother Jones as some of his sources of information.
Need I say more?
bob1/28 #1.27~~Thanks Bob, back at you and everyone. Enjoy and stay safe.
O'Bama has to stop with the Campaign Speeches and start being Presidential !!!! He has to stop making these 'waste of time comments' and start getting things done. It's no good looking good on camera with his big smile and being soooo kind and caring. That ain't doing anything. He's done nothing to impress me and I thought in 2008 he was going to be the next JFK.
We point our fingers at Greece, Spain and the rest of Europe and laugh at their financial condition...yet look at ours! WTH!
Our country is a mess! Thank you Hussain! Merry Christmas!
Pro Business.
Republicans had control on spending when Gingrich was the Speaker of the House. After he left, the annual increase in spending rose drastically.
We are paying for hating someone who actually was helping us.
Nice attempt at a come back, but I put you in the same category of those not man enough to admit what you really mean. You, and I know exactly what you meant when you said President Obama promising free stuff to the minority. Same thing you'll were crying throughout Romney's campaign, President Obama giving out free cellphones, President Obama the foodstamp President.
Get over it dude, Obama won, and the same group of white obstructionists from 2009 are still doing what they do best, obstruct this President, why do you hate him so much, be a man, state the REAL reason, not some bull@!$%# like ya'll like to spew.
Spense,
Shoot the messenger all you want. zfacts has a factual explanation of the historical financial situation in ths country. I don't see you refuting the facts. What can you say about the GDP graph? It's as clear as day.
The insanity of people like jimSpense that consider social security a welfare program. Nice to ignore that social security has paid out 2.5 trillion less than has been paid in and has nothing to do with income taxes. Including social security as expense to fight poverty makes as much sense as calling anyones paycheck the same because without it you're homeless. RWNJ's just can't stand the fact they have to borrow social security money to fight their wars instead of just looting it. Saying social security will run out of the surplus in 12 years is just a talking point. Come back when that day gets here.
Moshulu
I understand your comment was directed at Backcountry, but I must ask. If your leaders actions should never be questioned, wouldn't that make him royalty or a god? And would that not make you a peasant begging for coins? I hate to break it to you, but he is no god.
You may call them obstructionists, but many may call them patriots unwilling to call him a god. Time will tell. And FYI, I voted for the man in 2008 but voted for neither D or R in 2012. I have no respect for a man who willingly took my rights of due process and gave them to the office of the President, whoever that may be at the time, nor for a Congress that had no right to give them in the first place. Men earn respect, and it should never be freely given. That is what freedom means.
SmBusOwnerinNY
lol. So if I am an attorney, then I am a "bloodsucking lawyer" but the fact that both the most recent Democratic presidents were lawyers is something you support...?
make up your mind
Smbusowner: You say 3% doesn't make a difference to a small business? You are clueless. 3% is 3%. 3% is cost of business you did not have before. 3% can make the difference between hiring another worker or not. 3% can be the difference between making the decision to expand or not. 3% can be the difference between whether to even START a business.
And lastly you can't look at the "3%" number. To say it is "only" 3% disregards 3% added to WHAT!! But that is how liberals try to make it make sense - but it doesn't. You see liberals start out with, say, 10% tax. Then say to add 3% and "it is only 3% - that can't make a difference". So now it is 13%. Then we add another 3%. Then we add another 3%. Before you know it we are to 36%. Now you say "it is only 3%". Yes, it is only 3% but 3% added to 36%.
So the way rational people look at it is this way. 3% of what. If taxes were at 10% and wanted to add 3% then rational people say "3% of the remaining 90% means they want to take a little over 3% more of my remaining money". Maybe that is reasonable. But if taxes are currently at 36% that means the company now only keeps 64% and now you want another 3% which is nearly 5% MORE of the remaining profit. 5% is a lot of money.
What if taxes were at 97%. Could you STILL say "it is only 3%"? Of course not because there is only 3% left of profit so to take the LAST 3% would be a 100% increase.
So stop with the illogical and irresponsible comment it is "only 3%" because only those who do not understand how business works, cost of business affects business decisions, and how a tax increase is actually a much higher percent of profit taken believes that nonsense.
But you keep repeating your nonsense and the other liberals might agree with you but only people who do not understand economics or business would believe such stupid logic.
Larry-367607
Psssst, none of that money includes Social Security.
Supplemental Security Insurance is included but that gets paid out by the U.S. Treasury general funds NOT the Social Security Fund Ponzi scheme.
Try to keep up Spanky.
The libs are most definetly out in force tonight. their mommy must of let them have the computer again. It is a typical cast of wannabe's. The GOP is not going to cave or bend over for Obama. It is simple we despise the democrats and will do everything within our power to scuttle his plans for the demise of the American Republic. Up yours.
Happy Hanuka we will not let him turn us into the EU or any other socialist state. Try get anything passed for the next 4 years. it is unlikely that the Tea Party or the GOP is going to lose its grip on the House in 2014. Go get a job and stop being parasites on the rest of us.
SmBusOwnerinNY
Sneak income????? So I'll just assume you don't know what cap gains taxes are or how investments work OR how critical they are to the economy. Perhaps if you'd educate yourself a little you'd understand the things you're trying to discuss.
Sure it is, but it sounds like you're just a shade under being demonized as a greedy rich SOB. How does it make you feel to know that if you earn a little more you'll actually be WORSE off?? Kind of removes any incentive to expand your business now doesn't it? Why invest, expand and hire more people just so you can bring home a little bit less than before after taxes? If that doesn't affect the way you run your business you don't know much about running one.
Moshulu
Ah yes, the standard liberal response whenever they know they don't have a legitimate argument. Just call the other person a racist like a coward and hope it's enough to shut them up. You douche bags with your constant attempts to silence people by throwing out the race card are TRULY PATHETIC!!!!!
Make your excuses so you don't have to admit to yourself that you were an idiot. After all I said he gives free stuff to the MAJORITY while demonizing the minority. So I guess we can all finally conclude that a lack of reading comprehension is the root cause of your nonsensical posts.
If you think the president does not wish us to go over the cliff then you are blind to the truth. The military budget gets cut (something both he and the libs have been calling for), taxes get raised so he has more money to spend, any cuts that do come along he will blame on the GOP because he had them in a lose lose situation.
I owned businesses for years until I broke my back (was struck by a pizza delivery driver while putting air in my tire) and became disabled, but unlike most people today I did not wish to stay at home and milk the system while living off the governments tit, I went back to school and learned a new trade I could do without the need of standing up.
Is life easy, not at all, I live in constant pain, but rather then cry about my situation and just take, take and take more while leaving nothing for my children but a pile of bills, I work as much as is possible, I wrote a book while recovering from the broken back and receive royalties from that and am in the middle of going back to school so I can learn another trade and even work more.
The sad part is if I still owned that business today I would have shut up the doors and let every employee go because you people may not understand this but I ran a business so I could make money, not for a charity case. You take away a business owners ability to make money then they have no incentives to grow or hire new employees.
And to further stack the table against people now the liberals are talking about enacting a wealth tax. This means if I worked all my life and wisely invested my money, and ten other people chose to live like the Jones and waste their money then I will be taxed and forced to support those that did not invest wisely or even invest at all. In the end we are turning this country into a nanny state where everyone will not survive without the government.
The ones I feel bad for are the next generation, you selfish bast/ards have wasted their chance of living the same life we had a chance at and instead are sentencing them to a third world country or a country like Greece where we are so drowning in debt that we can not dig our way out of it. Personally if I did not do everything I could to ensure a better future for my child I would have rather given up and died, how could I go on knowing I destroyed my child's chance at a future, and you who voted this idiot back into office should hang your heads in shame because of your stupidity you will be sentencing not only my child but all of your and your grandchildren to a bleak future because of your selfishness.
"…The entire framework of the official budget “debate” is reactionary and false. It is based on the lie that there is no money for social programs such as health care and education, or for decent wages and benefits for the working class. Corporate profits and the fortunes of the financial elite continue to soar, while social inequality reaches unprecedented levels. It is estimated that US corporations are currently sitting on $3 trillion to $5 trillion in cash reserves…"
Behind the “fiscal cliff” debate
Obama spearheads social counterrevolution
31 December 2012
As of this writing, talks are continuing between congressional Republicans and the White House on the eve of the so-called “fiscal cliff.” It is not clear whether or not an agreement will be reached over the next few days, or if the manufactured crisis atmosphere will continue into the New Year. What is clear, however, is the overall direction of US social policy and the fact that the real target of both sides in the Washington debate is the working class.
It is necessary to demystify the whole process, which is characterized by an extraordinary level of posturing and lies, behind which is concealed a conspiracy against the American people.
The “fiscal cliff” is an artificially erected deadline, laid down as part of previous negotiations and aimed at creating the conditions for implementing unpopular measures that previously would have been considered politically impossible.
If Washington “goes over the cliff,” the impact will be felt most directly by working people, including tax increases that will effectively cut take-home pay for workers by 7 percent and the immediate elimination of unemployment insurance for 2 million long-term jobless, followed soon after by the cutoff of benefits for another 1 million people. Federal workers will face unpaid furloughs, and essential social programs, from energy assistance to child nutrition to education grants, will be hit with across-the-board cuts.
This is only the beginning. The fiscal cliff is the first in a series of artificial deadlines established for the New Year. There will be another deadline in late February over raising the federal debt ceiling—the same issue that became the pretext in August 2011 for a bipartisan agreement to cut over $1 trillion in social spending over the next decade. In March, the “continuing resolution” adopted before the election to authorize federal spending for six months will expire.
Each deadline will be utilized as the occasion to go after the most important federal social programs: Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, which provide retirement income and pay for health care for tens of millions of elderly, disabled and poor people. The phony debate over a minuscule tax increase for the rich—which will be quickly replaced with “comprehensive reform” to lower income and corporate taxes next year—is intended to conceal this reactionary agenda…
…Challenged by moderator David Gregory to “talk tough to seniors,” Obama replied, “but I already have, David.” He cited his support for the so-called “chained” consumer price index, a revised formula for calculating increases in the cost of living that will reduce future benefits for Social Security recipients. “Highly unpopular among Democrats,” Obama continued. “Not something supported by AARP (American Association of Retired Persons). But in pursuit of strengthening Social Security for the long term, I’m willing to make those decisions.”
In the Orwellian language of American politics, “strengthening” a social program means permanently slashing the benefits it provides, just as “balance” and “fairness” mean gutting the conditions of tens of millions of working people while imposing a token and temporary tax increase on bankers and CEOs. According to Obama, if millionaires and billionaires pay slightly higher taxes, while the hungry eat less, poor children see the doctor less often, and the elderly lower their thermostats because they can’t pay the fuel bill, that constitutes “everybody doing their share…"
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2012/12/31/pers-d31.html
DKWhite Comment collapsed by the community
Hogwash?
What is hogwash is the GOP's blatantly false statement that President Obama is not extending any budgetary concessions. A chained CPI for Social Security would not be optimal for our seniors. For a decent standard of living, Social Security cost of living increases should not significantly fall behind any future inflation. Thus, the CPI is an "olive branch." For their gilded lot, what has the Republicans "put on the table?" So that this country does not economically collapse, what has these unpatriotic right-wing stalwarts, Boehner and The Tea Party decided to sincerely bargain about, concerning the rich being required to pay their fair share of taxes? Nothing!
Obama, stand firm.
America sees that the Republicans do not care about 99% of our population.
America sees that this above party is "economically blackmailing and holding this country hostage."
The Republicans should never again be voted into the Oval Office.
If so, "the rest of us" will lose all economic stability, political participation and social dignity.
Obama, forward.
Hillary Clinton 2016!
Blah blah blah all you libs, get into your jammies, brush your teeth, say your prayers and Thank God for the GOP. good night children, let adults handle this one.
John Q Public
If there were reasonable adults in the GOP, the Democrats would have reached a fair budget agreement by now.
"Blah blah blah...?" From the right wing, this is the cry that the Progressives heard on November 7, 2012!
Thank God that the GOP lost the 2012 presidential election and senatorial seats.
If not for gerrymandering and their redistricting schemes, the Republicans would have also lost seats in the house.
Beverly in Chicago I think the Congress has pass 257 bills, however the Senate Good Ole Harry won't let any of them come to the floor to be voted on. Why? Because they are balanced and have spending cuts in them. If he lets them come to the floor it will be on record who will NOT vote for cuts, mainly the democrats, and they probably will not be re-elected. He is trying to save his own hide. If you want fair how about making the 50% of the people who pay NO taxes pony up. Also no one should get taxes back if they didn't pay anything in to it anyway.
all the responsibility for this mess falls on Congress and there is no acceptance of individual leadership and responsibility of the office of the President.
He won reelection decisively. The GOP should be willing to make a deal because it's been shown the American people want things done his way.
The Republican party is over due for a redo. This bit of insanity should help clear the morons out in 2014.
Where have all the Conservatives gone? What brought all those kiss asses of the rich to the Republican party?
Congressional Republicans have no problem taking hostages, 300 million of them.
But Obama's insistance on raising taxes on the the wealthy even though it will do nothing to fix his overspending problem isn't stopping a fiscal cliff deal?! Obama just proves he is just a malignant narcississt and a stupid &^%$#@! with a stolen credit card more everyday.
Boehner offered to go with a tax hike on incomes over $1 million and Obama seemed willing to go from $250k up to $400k. Just pick a number already and go with it -- at this point it's mostly symbolic anyway, and has little to do with cutting the deficit.
If cutting the deficit is really the most important thing, then just do nothing and let's go over the cliff. Maybe some people forgot the '90s already, but we all paid a lot more taxes then, and the government spent a lot less then -- and somehow it was a time of tremendous prosperity.
Maybe there's a pot of gold at the bottom of the so-called fiscal cliff :)
David Walker:
More of your worthless subjective opinion. So, David Walker thinks that some congressmen are “venal, self-centered jerks” and it must be so, because the Great and Powerful Oz has spoken. Please folks, pay no attention to that little man behind the curtain, because he has a little mind, and it is always focused on himself.
Walker, your smug, self-righteous indignation is phony and transparent. You have no higher moral character then anyone one else, and your anger over current political conditions is pretentious. Come out from behind the pulpit Reverand Walker, and give it a rest.
BTW: Brokaw was talking about gerrymandered districts in Texas. You’ve got to learn to pay attention.
SmBusBonehead
you would do us all a favor by spending your time cleaning up the defunct cesspool state that you live in , New York is a broke azz pimple on the nations backside , run by lefties , up to it's azz in debt , Google up the rate of peaple "evacuating" with their money and businesses
oh , and turn off Chris Matthews and the Madcow and educate yopurself on the money that your leftist fauz tolerabts have in off shore accounts , I would list some for you but obviously you need something to do "occupy" your time in the basement , anybody smell patchouli?
****SPECIAL ALERT!!***The New Mexico republicanCrimeCartelTireSlashingSoldier!!**SPECIAL ALERT!** The Republican"Don't Tax We" "MeFirst Entitled" Tire Slashing Soldier, Gary Smith, Was Apprehended by New Mexico Police, this Morning after he was IDENTIFIED in his intended victim's home surveillence Cam ice picking and slashing her car's tires; see news scoop. THIS republicanCrimeCartelScumClubSoldier was denied a candidicy in a New Mexico election Where, Of Course, That political spot was "Owed Him" as a republicanAristocratElitist. Presently, Prez O is trying to get a Fiscal Budget enacted BEFORE the Due Date And, OF COURSE, the republicanCrimeCartel has put out a contract on Limo One's Tires. Prez O is trying to get the budget up and off the ground WITH New And DUE higher taxes for the very wealthy republicanElitistScum who have been assiduously Milking TheKing's Tax Evasion Bonuses He "Bequeathed" them during his Notoriously Shameful Shrubber Reign 2001-2008. And So The Secret Service IS Standing guard, Heavily Armed, protecting air Force One's tires so Prez O can get the budget off the ground. After The republicanCrimeCartel "presidential" pair, Tweetle De and Tweetle Dumb, were vanquished from the WhiteHouse Via the elections, now they have taken to slashing tires.. What's Next with this elitist cloistered club of Larcenist, Pedaphilia, Murdering, Embezzling, scamming and otherwise Amoral Batch of War Waging, Tax Stealing, Life Threatening Criminals?? Ask mitch th' itchin'B!TCH McConMan and the BONER what 'bendover deal" they have dreamed up in their "de minted" skulls?????????????
Pippo di Beppo
you said: "Where have all the Conservatives gone? What brought all those kiss asses of the rich to the Republican party?"
they are standing right next to all the Democrats who have their lips firmly attached to George Soros' asss , by the way , how does it taste?
SmBusloser says
"I've been paying off debt in my company for a couple years now"
your "company" operates "in debt" ?...hahaha , your lefty union public school teacher education has left you ill-equiped to operate a business , keep up the hilarious posts though
oh , my fault , you may be in the business of "community organizing" , which would of course operate "in dept" and on the gubment nipple
Hello folks, there are no uber rich, opulent, or fat cats the new lexicon is "job creators". We must protect the 'job creators" because they are doing such a good job knocking the crumbs of their table down to the peasants.
So, Obama's part of the negotiation is that he's going to reduce Soc Sec benefits...? He wants a tax hike on "the rich" and in order to get it, he's taking money from the elderly?
F'ck Obama.
.
Larry:
Please do us all a favor and stop talking about "trickle down economics," because you're making yourself look like a real horse's ass. You don't know the first thing about Reaganomics, or how well it worked.
BTW: Your general knowledge of economics is laughable. Please stop; you're killin' me.
Arkius, trickle down economics never has worked as seen by the lack of good paying jobs Reagan and Gingrich stated they would create. In reality this voodoo economic theory is exactly what I have stated. Right now this misnomer is being addressed in the wheeling and dealing going on in DC. Taxing the 2% Club at a higher rate than has been since Clinton. In reality the tax rates on the wealthy should go back to the pre-Reagan era to see any economic development in this country in addition to cutting the DOD funding back to the Clinton era. The theory of guns or butter rings so true in this country. We cannot continue to feed the Military Industrial Complex since it does not raise the GDP which is in dire straights. We must go back to producing consumable and durable goods to get back on track.
wow, so again America is blinded by the obvious. Neither party cares about America. They only care about their own pocket books. The blame of our problems sits squarely on ALL of Congress, not just the Democrats or Republicans. Congress is a joke!
I see more and more people start up small businesses and take cash only to avoid income taxes. I sure understand why more and more Americans don't want to pay more in taxes since our Congress is inept in managing it. They will spend every dime America creates and still want more.
Intellect:
Please don’t make me laugh with your off the shelf, socialist economic propaganda. You know even less about Reaganomics and economics in general, than Larry.
In 1971, President Nixon believed that freezing wages and prices and ending the fixed price for gold would help fix the economy. Well, it did for a while, but soon another problem began, we remember it as stagflation, “a combo of low economic growth and high inflation” (Kyle Wingfield:Remembering Reagan and the ’seven fat years, February, 2011).
In his 1992 book, Seven Fat Years, Wall Street editorial page editor Robert Bartley laid out the intellectual foundation for Reagan’s “trickle down” economic concept. “Democrats […] sought to shape tax cuts into industrial planning, believing in the government’s ability to direct money to its best uses. Republicans…sought to return money to the private sector and trust market forces to find the best outlets” (Bartley:1992). Thus was born Reaganomics.
President Reagan, with the help of Democrats Tip O’Neill and Dan Rostenkowski passed deep tax cuts, which were phased in over time to control the deficit, and didn’t have much effect until 1983. You may remember reading that in an effort to control inflation the Federal Bank began tightening the money supply at around the same time, but once the tax cuts caught up to the tight money, which had done their intended job and lowered inflation, the economy took off in the extended, seven year boom that Bartley wrote about.
Now, please don’t start whining like a little girl about budgetary deficits and debt, because deficit spending ran counter to Reagan’s political philosophy.
In his 1980 campaign, Reagan “called for “a two-thirds majority in Congress to pass spending bills, a line-item veto…a limit on the amount of income that could be taken in taxes and a constitutional amendment requiring a balanced budget” (ibid). President Reagan only administered the Executive Branch of the federal government; he did not control congress. If he couldn’t get a balanced budget passed during his administration, it is because he was willing to reach across the isle to men like O’Neill and Rostenkowski, and compromise to get things done; unlike the bum we have in the White House today.
BTW: Cutting too much from the military budget, means putting hundreds of thousands of people out of work in every state in the Union. Add to this the hundreds of thousands of jobs that will soon be lost when the Obamacare taxes begin to kick in over the next few months, and America will be sliding right back into a recession (Grace-Marie Turner: Forbes, Get Ready For An Obamacare Tax Onslaught, 2013).
There are only 3.1 million millionaires in the United States, with a combined wealth of $11.6 trillion. The total debt of the United States is $16.394 trillion. If you took every nickel from every millionaire, we’d still be $4.794 trillion in total debt (Robert Frank: The Wealth Report, June 2011-U.S. Debt Clock.org). Who do you think Obama is going to tax for that money, genius? The lower class?
Tens of thousands of people are already regretting the mistake they made on November 6. In a few months, when the new recession kicks in and a million plus people lose their jobs to Obamacare taxes, and military cut-backs, that number will swell into the tens of millions.
Wow! I've got to watch this! I mean, will he have a halo around his head or what? And, will the moderator be able to keep a straight face?
The moderator is not willing to ask the tough question like How would you (Obama) Balance the Budget?
No kidding. No one will ask the tough questions and really why should they? They have people like the sheeple here who run the ball for him.
Until the president starts taking responsibility for this mess he can't expect others to. It all trickles down.
You are not smart, but you ARE simple! LOL!!!
The Party of No strikes again.
Whenever elected Republicans are actually happy, I know that Main Street (the 99%) are getting screwed.
Talk all the rhetoric you want people but nothing...NOTHING changes the fact that the republicans refuse to have the upper income people (themselves)pay more taxes. This.is.the.entire.debate.
No matter what else goes on or off the plate, they refuse this and it is their greed that will drive that bus, nothing else.
Never Stop Asking Questions - - If you think you are screwed now wait until ObamaCare fully kicks in.
Yes I am so glad Obama LIKE that it is called OmabaCare. When people find out that even with a government subsidy they will get the privilege of paying a lot of their own money for a insurance plan that has huge deductibles in it they will be screaming. Still too many people that think they are going to get FREE insurance...hahahaha
Straight face? Maybe.
Round mouth? Definitely!
Until the
presidentpoliticians start taking responsibility for this mess he can't expect others to. It all trickles down.K I smart, some of it already has and it is doing a world of good.
Once the poorly informed and unrefudiatedly, misunderedumacated Right Wing starts to see its benefits, they will acknowledge reality and embrace the ACA..
Tip for the Right Wing: It is okay to care about people more than money.
I love it when somebody points out some of oblahblahs faults, then the lefts answer to it is to call everybody names. Is it still Bushes fault?
The root of the mess we are in is most definitely Bush's fault, as well as the collective efforts of the Party of No since St. Reagan.
It takes a long time to clean up Republicon messes...the clumsy, selfish children that they are.
Republicons consistently suffer from the Dunning-Krueger Effect.
The 99% are getting screwed? Since 1970 per person income extraction (taxation) has gone up 33% in inflation adjusted real 2012 dollars (mostly paid for by the upper income groups). The problem is that in those real 2012 dollars per person spending has DOUBLED.
Were we to have had a government that had even the slightest bit of self control who since 1970 had tied spending growth to some reasonable benchmark like population growth plus inflation, we would not have a $16 trillion debt...we would have a $16 trillion surplus growing at $1 trillion per year. Alternatively we could have a $0.00 debt, no annual deficits and the 99% would be free of any and all income based taxes. Only the top 1% would pay any income based tax at all.
Maybe your handle should instead be "I Need To Start Asking Questions".
Mike, blame the Party of No for the National Debt.
Republicons have NEVER generated a surplus, unlike Democrats, and consistently run higher deficits.
Stay away from the Alice in Wonderland, Faux News rabbit hole.
NSAQ
note to young nebie , Democrats have been in control of Congress for the majority of the last 80 years , a Democrat President signed the "FED" into existence , an Democrat started the great ponzi scheme known as Social Security ,what "surplus are you refering to? , Bill cigar boy Clinton?...hmmm from you illustrious lefty bible news fish wrap Huffington...
huffingtonpost.com/dean-baker/there-is-no-santa-claus-a_b_2362845 (.html)
hmmm...interesting...you can stow the leftist babble and pablum , stay away fro Madcow , Matthews , Krugman , and the rest of the libby "faux tolerants" because they have left you ill-equipped to have an intelligent conversation
The libs, and particularly Oblama, need to read some history about JFK. He repeatedly stressed lowering taxes, and when that happened the economy exploded.
You do have to wonder about the IQ of the average Oblama voter. Did any of them really know what they were voting for? High debt, Moody's downgrade, high unemployment, recession, overall horrible economy, non-comprimiser, no leadership. Really says a lot about that group of voters.
TO Never stop......CORRECTION!!!
The "surplus" funds and welfare reform under BIll Clinton---were acquired through a REPUBLICAN
Congress----those great bonuses for America had very little to do with the Democrats---other than
Clinton LED and worked with what he had...which was a REPUBLICAN Congress. Please check this out
and do not distort history. Thanks! ....and sincerely wishing you and others H New Year, too! :)
Republicans had to shut down government and drag Clinton kicking and screaming to limit the spending increases that made that "surplus" possible...this of course ignores the fact that the "surplus" was only able by raiding Social Security which now has to be paid back with interest. Great plan eh?
When Democrats agree to limit the actual growth of social programs from 6% to 3% they call that reducing spending and it is not! If the growth rate on social programs go up 6% a year and they agreed to cut that by 10% then there would be an actual cut of 4%!
All the cuts in spending offered up by the Democrats have been smoke and mirrors dealing with just the growth of social programs, not cuts to the program itself!
The Senate meaning Harry the liar Reid, is setting on many budget bills passed and sent to them by the house! He! Scarey Harry has set on all of them and has not brought one of them to the floor of the Senate for even a debate on them! Talk about one man rule!
It has been a long standing tactic of the Democrats to buy votes through Social spending! Targeting those who are more prone to lay back and let someone else support them!
Before someone tries to throw Seniors on Social Security or Veterans collecting their Veterans pensions, all of these were earned! They were not part of any handouts by the government! As far as Social Security, we have a program were anyone working had to pay into it! There would be trillions of dollars in there still if it had not been taken out to pay for someone else who is not working to set on their asses!
Go anywhere there is a illegal population and you will see the majority of them lined up at the welfare office! Seventy percent of the illegals coming into this country are setting on Welfare! they are either drawing it for whelping their child here or they are living with someone who did!
Perhaps here would be a place to cut the budget. I know that it would directly affect the voting base of the Democrats but sometimes they will have to do what is right for the country! Just days after Obamination was re-elected the illegals were marching in front of the white House demanding that Obamination repay their vote by letting the rest of their families in!
Perhaps they should fulfill the claim that they are only coming here to work. Stop their straight line to the Welfare office and stop the anchor babies which enable them to cross the boarder and make a beeline for the Welfare office! The Dream of a life on Welfare is the flaming torch they follow to the promise land!
Democratic Presidents:
1. Won WWI
2. Won WWII
3. Got us out of the Depression
4. Averted WWIII with the Cuban Missile Crisis
5. Waged a War on Poverty
6. Passed Civil Rights
7. Passed the Voting Act
8. Ran supluses for the first time
9. Ended the illegal war in Iraq.
10. Passed the Affordable Care Act to insure 30-40 million children and adults have health insurance.
11. etc., etc., etc.
The Party of No:
1. Waged war on women, minorities, science, gays, Modernity, the elderly, teachers, firefighter, police, unions, students, etc.
2. Spend every moment aggrandizing the Military Industrial Complex.
3. Quintipled the National Debt
4. Support white Rich 1%ers, etc., etc., etc.
5. Want all citizens (including children and fetuses) to be armed.
Your witness.
This is one of the major differences between the parties. One side see's the low number of bills passed as a bad thing...ie not as many laws to control us
The other side see's the low number of bills passed as a good thing..not as many laws to control us
Unless republicans can explain how Romneys plan to cut 500 billion in revenue while increasing the military 200 billion a year would have balanced the budget they can't criticize Obama. Romneys cutting social programs the 50 billion a year wouldn't have made up a fraction of what he wanted to spend over current budgets.
All this money talk but neither the president nor Congress and Senate have even talked about taking a pay cut . No they still get their big pay raises.
I say if the working clas donot get a payhike they we the people should get to where we the people say if they get a pay raise.
Current tax rates in the US:
Get at clue, those on the 35% bracket hire nice lawyers that find loop holes to cut down those tax rate to less than 15%. The rich can not take all that cash with them to the grave; make life better for everyone.
Never Stop Asking Questions "Whenever elected Republicans are actually happy, I know that Main Street (the 99%) are getting screwed."
Isn't Main Street' getting screwed just as much by Obama saying that it has to be 'his way or else'?
Obama could just as easily agree to allow the tax cut extension for everyone, or to agree to equivalent spending cuts.
Compromise means BOTH sides give something, not just one side getting their way.
Roy, Obama has compromised non-stop with the Party of No, to the further detriment of Main Street.
Remember, Boehner said that he got "98% of what he wanted" during the last debt ceiling crisis?
Good God the Reichwing have short memories.
"Our number one job is to make certain that Barack Obama is a one-term President...."
Ring a bell Roy?
So spake the party of "no compromise".
More importantly how many Budgets has the Democrat Senate passed in 4 years? Don't be a friggin fool! These ditto heads from both parties have been up there far to long and couldn't compromise on shoe laces! Until citizens of this country realize this and start getting them out of there this mess will continue and this economy will remain stagnant. All because of continued uncertainty brought on by both parties in Congress with their decision to keep kicking the can down the road instead of addressing the hard issues facing this country with long term solutions.
G2020 "Get at clue, those on the 35% bracket hire nice lawyers that find loop holes to cut down those tax rate to less than 15%."
Actually, the EFFECTIVE income tax rate for the 'rich' is about 27%, but then the EFFECTIVE tax rate for a family making $50,000 per year is less than 6%.
The Middle Class gets far more benefits from 'loopholes' than the 'rich', and they don't have to hire an attorney. Here's the proof'
Taxable Income = $50,000
Exemptions and Standard Deduction (family of 4) = $27,100
Taxable Income = $22,900
Income taxes = $2,831
Effective tax rate = 5.66%
If the middle class family itemizes deductions, their 'effective' tax rate could easily be less than 5%.
So your'e a Liberal then? Or is name calling OK for you?
Your word to learn for today, is hypocrite.
Do as I say and not as I do is your motto it seems.
Never Stop Asking Questions "Roy, Obama has compromised non-stop with the Party of No, to the further detriment of Main Street."
Obama talks in generalities, but never agrees to anything specific. Everybody knows that 'entitlement spending' is the big Deficit problem - show me some REAL cuts in spending proposed by Obama.
Roy Wilson, get a clue.
Low class get earned income credits, making work pay credits, child tax credits, a bigger benefit from flex and child care credits...not to mention they get more assistance with paying for college...etc.
Face it, credits and exemptions are intended to low class and middle class pay little in taxes.
Sure those with $1 mill plus in income are doing well and can afford the tax rate they have. But anyone in the upper middle class is the one that is screwed. Move into six figures and all kinds of deductions and exemptions start to disappear. Worst place to be in the income scale is 150k to 300k. You get little deductions, are expected tp pay your way through college and pay to support others- same at the top 2%.
I cry no tears for those over $1 mill, or those under $150k. But the $150k to $300k crowd is hardly the ones Obama is trying to help. It is to many of us middle class or upper middle class and Obama does not give a dam about us. If he did, he would not continually label wealthy as $200k and up for an individual or $250k as a family.
I am no fan of protecting the uber rich, but Obama has no plans or desire to help the upper middle class. None at all.
Hjack, re "... JFK ... repeatedly stressed lowering taxes, and when that happened the economy exploded...." - a bit of history helps here. The top marginal tax rate, which is currently 35%, and is scheduled to go to the Clinton era level of 39.5%, is the lowest in my lifetime (I'm 60.)
Under Truman and Eisenhower, the top marginal tax rate, post WWII, peaked at 92%. JFK proposed lowering that to 75%; it ended up being lowered to 70%, double the current rate. If we did a similar thing now - the government would have NO revenue (you know, money coming in from taxes) with which to pay for the military, much less ANYTHING else. Personally I have no trouble going all the way back to pre-Reagan rates.
The rates you just posted do not apply to everyone. You chose only to post those relating to individual who are married. An individuals marginal income tax bracket depends upon his or her income and tax-filing classification. No one pays these rates, as everyone gets a Standardized deduction on their return. If one has children, they get a deduction for each child. If one is over 65 they get a special deduction. If one has enough of Mortgage interest/taxes, medical, State & Local income taxes that allow them to file a Schedule A, again they pay far lessor taxes. Single poor mothers/fathers get earned income tax credit, thus getting back more than they paid in. And the list goes on.....
Income tax is imposed as a tax rate times taxable income, less applicable tax credits. Taxable income is gross income less allowable tax deductions. You need to get a clue. That 15% is on Dividends & Investments, the 35% is based on "wages".
Then, the 35% brackets don't hire Lawyers, they hire CPAs!!! Lawyer wouldn't know anything about deductions and tax shelters. FYI, tons if not more of Middle Class people & Seniors take their tax info to a CPA, just as those in high brackets. Why? Because the average person has no idea of the tax credits they too can have and Turbo tax isn't going to tell them this. Turbo Tax is only as good as your understanding of what is available to you in the Tax code which is over 700 pages. And only a good CPA (not a lawyer) can tell you this.
Posting tax brackets doesn't give you or anyone else a accurate picture of who pays what to the Feds. Again everyone pays less then you just posted.
Antistupidity
Exactly, only republican Presidents are expected to take all of the blame... even when they haven't been in office for 4 years.
No more compromise, we have compromised the last 100 yrs. Scrw all dem freedom haters.
Never Stop Asking Questions Better get off that weed! A democratic president didn't end WWII, the Japanese did by attacking Pearl Harbor and starting WWII against the U.S.A. News for you Democrats were in control of many if not most of the congresses and democratic presidents signed the spending bills for the most part. Kennedy showed his inability to have Castro killed and his inexperience let the Russians put in tactical nuclear weapons in Cuba or didn't you know that. Had the U.S. invaded Cuba, the Russian commander would have used the nuclear weapons "IN CUBA" to delay the takeover of Cuba and probably would have started WWIII. Johnson and the Warren report refused to look at the possibility that Cuba and Russia were involved in the Kennedy murder.
The last three years of Clinton's administration were dominated by Republican congresses that forced Clinton to sign budgets with surpluses. Clinton was brought to the budget signing kicking and yelling he wanted to spend more money. FYI the HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES makes the spending laws not the president. The president only has the right to sign or not sign or reject. If he doesn't reject the law then after a certain amount of time it automatically becomes law. Also remember that had not Perot played the spoiler the two times Clinton ran for the presidency, both times he would have lost. The first time by over 14 million votes. The arrogant bastard thinks with his small head 99% of the time. Hillary was his bag women at the Ross law firm. Arkansas was 49th in education and child care. When the Clintons left it was 50th in both categories. Tyson foods was allowed to dump raw poultry sewage into Arkansas' rivers in violation of federal law.
If Clinton was paid $40,000 a year as Arkansas governor, how did he amass his millions? Why did Hillary never live in her residence that was picked for her to establish residency in NY and why did she constantly turn a blind eye to William Clinton's cheating on her? Simple answer: She wanted to ride his coattails into higher politics. She knew she had no chance on her own.
You make up statistics and lie for your benefit.
Backcountry164
You wish to continue, trying to bait me are you?
I was pointing the finger in both directions, not at any individual but at all politicians on both sides
Never Stop Asking Question...
So all of the items in your democratic president list were free and didn't cost the tax payer a dime and only the republicans spent the money. lol
This is why we are going over the cliff...
Civil Rights passage the republicans over whelming voted in this law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964
By party
The original House version:[16]
Cloture in the Senate:[17]
The Senate version:[16]
The Senate version, voted on by the House:[16]
Time for America to pay for the greed and immediate gratification for the past 30 years (at the future's expense).
YOU are not ENTITLED TO THE JOB OF YOUR CHOOSING.
YOU are not ENTITLED TO THE TOYS YOU WANT just because one lives in America.
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work, because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation!
Hold hands and jump America!
Never stop asking Questions:
When did you stop asking questions?
Obama has a great plan to recover our economy and if asked too, i'll just bet we all could vote to tax the richer part of our nations public.... But instead we people who make the smaller amounts of money will once again take the entire burdens this country provides us while they sit on their worthless asses for another 4 years raking the money in at phenimenal rates and paying whom they want for more tax breaks.... =]
Antistupidity
Actually I voted for your comment because you pointed the finger both ways. But be honest, have you ever made that point when a liberal starts blaming everything on Bush and republicans or just when Obama is the target of criticism?
good posts never stop asking questions.there has to come a time when you cant compromise anymore.we are there.the democrates are insisting the rich pay a slightly higher percentage in income taxes,3 percent,and that we dont cut social security or medicare.since we have a greater disparity of wealth between the rich and the poor then our country has ever seen a minuscule tax increase on the rich isnt unreasonable.the rich have benefited enormously from from tax loophole and outsourcing.its long past time they contributed proportionally to our society
The personal attacks and subsequent lies and fallacies from the Right have given me quite a few belly rolls today.
From the idea that the Japanese ended WWII rather than Democrats and that all Democratic achievements that I listed were "free" for taxpayers.
Seriously, folks, my developmentally-delayed bassett hound could out-think the Reichwing commentors on this seed.
I almost suspect that they are "liberal foils" who are trying to demonstrate just how vacuous the Party of No cranial vault actually is.
But, then, I talk to Conservatives and realize that they really believe this junk.
Heck of a job, American Taliban.
There is no pressure on Congressional GOP, Mr Obama. There is only Mr. Obama pointing a finger of blame at the GOP...while he himself runs away from the talks in order to distance himself from his own failure to deliver.
If there is a deal reached, it will be in spite of Obama, not because of him.
Reading these posts makes me wonder how many of us know the roles of government.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/usconstitution/a/branches.htm
So Obama gives his proposals but it is up to Congress to write and pass the bills. The fiscal cliff - not President Obama's responsibility. It is congress's responsibility and it falls on both parties is this country goes over the fiscal cliff.
However, has anyone thought that both parties want to go over the fiscal cliff? It is a way to save face. They will have "no" choice" after we go over the cliff.
My over the Fiscal Cliff check list:
1) One gallon of Bacardi. check
2) One Bic Lighter. check
3) One 1977 Tokemaster Bong. check
4) Enough weed to make it through to New Years. check
5) 20 Chicken Soft Tacos from Taco Bell. check
6) 24 12 ounce Diet Pepsi. check
7) RG3 Baby! Don't pass out before the end of the Redskins - Cowboys game. praying
If you really think Obama is really running the show, you havent learned anything from the Reagan and Bush years. WAKE UP, the media is talking about a Fiscal Cliff, it is what the Banker's and Rockefeller Owned Federal reserve wants. Trust me, just like the Media will not discuss FDA/Monsanto, they wouldnt discuss this but to get you both fighting to ignore what's really going on.
Just like the Democrats own nothing of this debt is just as crazy an idea as ever... I believe Bush was incompetent, but what the heck, America voted him back into office too.
So we have a current President that shows absolutely no leadership and is just as incompetent. The economy would have fared better if we would have voted Mickey Mouse into office. I had great hopes for President Obama, but am sad about the outcome he has shown me.
And believe any of the Media dribble they spews.. Seriously
The cliff is the best answer now... it actually cuts spending, not this mythical cuts in increased spending they keep pushing
If I chose to disagree with the thinking that the media spews, then for you, I'm the Taliban.. I'm glad I am then... I wouldn't want to put my head into the sand about our corrupt government. That's all of them, Republicans and Democrats
Even though going over "the cliff" would cost average Middle Class families $2000+ in tax increases, I would actually like to see us go over the cliff....simply because it would mandate cuts in Military spending without cutting social welfare programs.
Then, re-negotiation can occur to cut taxes for families below the $200,000 when Congress reconvenes...as we have a revenue crisis, not a debt crisis.
Remember, Boehner's Plan B would actually cut taxes for the top 2% while raising taxes for the 98%...which is why the Senate balked at his retardation.
The real issue though, is that the Party of No manufactured this crisis in the first place. This entire period of Brinkmanship was an invention of Reichwing extremists and could have been ameliorated by bi-partisan diplomacy...which is how the System is supposed to work.
Therefore, Heck of a Job, Party of No.
There is data to support this but not down to what you quote. You can find an IRS summary of 2010 (latest year available) tax returns here
According to this data, the top 1% makes $340k or more a year (AGI). Their average tax rate: 23.4%
$250,000 is not rich for a family of 4 living in a larger city! I know!
Most of these people posting are complete idiots. I am amazed at how their party loyalty causes them to refuse to understand simple math. Taxing the "rich" is not going to solve the problem. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK HEADS. How high do you think they should be taxed?? Do you think taking 90% of what they earn would be fair and would balance the budget?? MORONS.
We as a country have a huge SPENDING problem. Obama is insane to think the solution is to spend MORE money that the government doesn't have - but of course, that's how he is going to bribe the American parasites.
Ridiculous, Bev.
My brother and his family lives in the 2nd largest city in the country and can subsist comfortably on half that amount.
More manufactured ignorance by the Right Wing.
You need to lower your "conspicuous consumption" 'extravagances' and be a bit more humble, like the 95% "below" you.
Shame. Shame. Shame. Shame.
Cut everyone receiving government money by 10% and every agency including the military by 10%. This includes everyone employed by the government.
Bush senior is a pretty smart man and made some really wise decisions, junior however is pretty much an idiot and led us down the road to the mess we are in. Then we got Romney as an alternative, not much of a choice, the devil you know and the devil who keeps contradicting himself. Even my most conservative friend said to me with Romney the republicans stand no chance, even he acknowledged that there was not much to pick from in the Republican candidates.
Obamination has said he wants higher taxes on dividends! Has any one figured out why? I guess you figure it will make the rich pay more then 75% of all taxes paid! That is only part of the reason. His real target is the working class people who took a buyout when they retired and put it in their money managers hands! Taking their retirement in a lump sum and investing it for rates of dividend return from 8-10%!
Obamination saw that money trial. Most of it was well over that magic 250 thousand that makes you rich in his eyes! Once the higher taxes on dividends kicks in the retirement for these people will be no where as sweet as they thought!
And you thought he was for the working class!
Trust me, $250,000 is a 1/4 million a year and if people can't live on that no matter WHERE they live, then you've got a problem budgeting YOUR money as my family lives on a 5th of that with 2 incomes coming in, pay a mortgage on a modest existing homne, live very frugally and HAVE to because of all my medical issues that eat up all what could considered "disposable income", never take vacations as we can't afford them, don't live "out in the country or the burbs" and even before we bought our house was something I NEVER did as dumping $$$ in my gas tank is idiocy to me when I need it for other things liek food, the heat bill and so on which I also try to keep as low as possible....the fossil industry gets enough of our bloody $$$ at the expense of polluting our earth and our forced tax subsidies to HELP them do it while our schools are being bankrupted as the USPS among other things and we have to KEEP PAYING FOR WARS, WARS, WARS!!!!
But healthcare for all Americans is screamed about as an assault on "liberty and freedom"-Go figure. BTW I worked in the health insurance industry as a claims adjudicator for 6 years, went to school all during that time while working F-T in the business as well as P&C, then got my Life & Health license in WI as well while working at an independent agency and then selling briefly before working for providers in medical billing/insurance. I did all billing from commercial to government-(Medicare/Medicaid/VA and Tricare and mental health 3 1/2 years medicaid specialist), and then for a cardiolgy practice in GB, WI where the biggest block of business was MC and commerical carrier was UHC being here in the Midwest and MC HMO business-(Advantage plans and unless the seniors who got these plans knew 100% all about them ahead of time BEFORE they had to file a claim what the "catches were"), they could not wait to get back on traditional MC and their supplemental Medigap policy like AARP, Bankers, Constitutional Life, Humana 65+, Prevea Senior and so on because these paid everything and were did have the restrictions like a commercial insurance managed care plan does.
You all need to do your homework and stop listening to the BS once and for all about the "Obamacare SCARE", learn about insurance law and what your state is really doing to you by NOT implementing the ACA now like mine is. There are so many key provisions of the law from what it requires commerical health plans and MC to provide now that were not available before to what employers HAVE been taking advantage all this time they have NOT been telling you as many of those same employers and groups dumped huge campaign donations into the gop and screamed about how terrible the ACA is. One huge benefit they've been able to take advantage of is the ERRP due to phase out in 2014 but whether those employers have in fact used that money for that purpose is anyone's guess since their ledgers are off to the public whereas the majority of those who have such as the school districts, etc ARE and have put the monies into their deferred retirement funds.
Walker of course is raiding this now like the crook he is after forcing public employees to take way overpriced lousy coverage through carriers like UHC instead of WEA for instance. Do your research people in the states you live in and find out what is the TRUTH and how and who is really screwing you for once-PLEASE. For instance, 45 years of giving BILLIONS and BILLIONS to Israel to fund their war on Palestine and they have great healthcare and their people live wonderfully well and Romney said THEIR "socialized healthcare plan was superior to ours". After 45 years of US taxpayer money going over there to help them PAY for it while WE NOW have to be told the SS and MC we have paid into from our paychecks are "bankrupting unsustainable entitlements that must be reformed which is nothing more then privatized and decimated all the more by draconian budget cuts and Medicaid too" so we can keep subsidizing MORE defense spending and these useless tax cuts when are AMERICANS going to learn?
I never stop asking questions so
Democratic Presidents:
Woodrow Wilson ran on keeping us out of the war. If he couldn't keep us out of it, he better have won it. Being a student of history and wars, WW 1 was a stand off. Neither side could gain a military advantage, but looking at the big picture Germany did not have the resources the allies had to wage a longer term war. Germany was avoiding involving the US, because that would tip the scales in favor of the Allies, but crossed the line when they sought to sign Mexico as an Ally. That plus starting to resourt to sinking American shipping is brought us into the war. Germany was forced to assemble anything they could spare to mount a crushing offensive to win. They were too late because by the time they got the offensive going, there was just enough of the first Americans to arrive at the front lines to stop the offensive.
Again, we were trying to stay out of it. Japan didn't want to go to war with us, just disable our pacific fleet. They actually thought that we wouldn't be a problem for years to come. I don't think you should brag too much about the end of the war either. Stalin played FDR like a cheap violin. We might have saved Western Europe from a Nazi Dictator, but at the price of another totalitarian regime occupying Eastern Europe for over 40 years.
Only politicians believe this. Some economists believe we never really got out of the depression until the 60's. Roosevelt's own Treasury Secretary Morganthau admitted that not only did they take Hoover's Ideas of Public works projects to provide pay for people, (which they campaigned against as wasteful spending), they renamed them, and doubled what was spent. Morganthau also said that they tried everything, including lowering interest rates, raising taxes, cutting taxes, and nothing worked to turn the economy around. simply take the make work WW II is really what brought us out of the deepest part. As the allies needed resources to fight Germany in 1939, they became very willing to pay any price to have the means to fight Germany. With a desperate buyer, you can charge what you want to get the profit you want and still pay the high taxes.
I wouldn't brag too much about this either. This Crisis was the result of the failed bay of pigs invasion. In the bay of pigs invasion, Nixon proposed it, Eisenhower planned it, Kennedy approved it, and then got cold feet and didn't help the Cuban freedom fighters as promised, leading to their slaughter, capture, imprisonment, and torture.
Kruchev saw this and quickly struck a deal with Castro to build the missle bases. JFK had no choice but to boycott Cuba to stop the construction or have Russia with full coverage of the US with missles.
Poverty today is WORSE than it was in 1968 even before the crash of 2008.
6. Passed Civil Rights
There were three reasons this got proposed and passed.
First, for the first time, the democrats saw African Americans as a voting group and not just as inferior people.
Second, because JFK was so big in their minds and he asked for the legislation, they had to support his legacy. BTW Lyndon Johnson was caught on a live microphone after signing the "Great Society" Legislation. "We'll have those ni**ers voting for us for the next 100 years."
Third, Democrats 60% voting for the legislation was not enough to pass either house. It took Republicans voting 80% for it to get it passed. Republicans who had every civil rights legislation except women's suffrage defeated because of the overwhelming opposition of Democrats. Republicans only got woman's suffrage passed because they had overwhelming numbers in the house, Senate, and 3/4's of the state Legislatures.
Same thing as the 1964 Civil rights act. In the end without the republicans the act fails.
Presidents propose budgets. Congress writes them. The president is left to advise the congressional process and give his consent to what Congress decides. Fiscal 1993 was an increase in spending of 13 Billion. 1994 saw an increase of $40 Billion. The 1995 (written during 1994) was an increase of $46 Billion. So much for peace time dividends.
Republicans ran on fiscal responsibility and won both the House and Senate in 1994. During 1995, and lead by Newt Gingrich, they wrote Fiscal 1996 only +$32 Billion more in spending, Fiscal 1997 +30 Billion in spending, Fiscal 1998 +45 Billion in spending and fiscal 1999 +45 Billion in spending. Those famous feuds between Bill and Newt was over Newt cutting spending on domestic programs more than Bill wanted to be seen to have allowed. Meanwhile increases in revenues averaged +89 billion per year.
There is a real killer in the Revenues too. Bill signed the tax increase on the rich in late 1993. That tax was paid both retro amounts for 1993 and New taxes for 1994 were all paid in 1994 giving the Treasury a additional boost of $27 Billion in 1994, but in 1995, the revenue increase fell back to an increase of $77 Billion. Republicans got tax bracket indexing returned in 1996 retroactive to 1995. Despite the cut in revenues, revenues still increased in 1996 & 1997 even more. In 1997 the capital gains was cut from 28% to 20% and revenues still increase in 1998 an additional 119 Billion or 17 Billion more than in 1997. 1999 saw the increase drop to $77 billion, but 2000 saw an increase of 161 billion (highest increase in modern history). 2001 was way down, but that is because unemployment had begun rising as the dot com bubble burst, which was also a large reason for some of the huge increases in revenue from 1997 - 2000.
The war was not illegal, and no one lied. Even the Democrats leaned on Dennis Kucinich twice to get him to remove his bills proposing impeachment, simply because the premise of your point is totally FALSE.
Explain what is affordable about the cost to the taxpayer when the bill increases per the CBO from $900 Billion over 10 years to $2.7 TRILLION?
Explain what is affordable about annual insurance increases of 18%, 18%, 30%, when increases previously averaged between 12% and 14% annually? Not to mention the next year, which I just talked to a retired couple yesterday, 2013 is a 40% increase, and their daughter says her's is increasing 45%. Insurer's are saying that they expect the 2013 raises to range from 30 - 45%. Aetna is now saying next year will DOUBLE for many.
Oh, yes the 30 - 40 million uninsured. Uhm, the number is actually 50 Million. 20 million don't want health insurance. How is that affordable to them when they weren't paying anything before?
How about the pre-existing condition people. Only one person of the ones I know were able to afford that insurance. The dirty little uninformed secret is that only a few insurance companies offered them because very few people ever got them because the cost was so high.
And yes the Children. Before the ACA parents could not afford a full family health insurance plan could buy health insurance for just their children. After the ACA, the only company specializing in child only plans folded. Most major health insurance companies also dropped their child only plans. Even Union insurance companies dropped child only plans. Now practically the only way to buy health insurance for children until 2014 is to buy a family plan, which people couldn't afford before. How is that making health insurance more affordable?
No anti-stupidity,
Backcountry is only trying to get you to open your eyes and think!
Isn't Main Street' getting screwed just as much by Obama saying that it has to be 'his way or else'?
Not at all. If the cliff happens Obama gets the increase on the rich and democrats can simply introduce a new bill giving the break to those making less than 250K after January 1st. Republicans wouldn't dare block it. It's up to republicans to fight for what they want outside the higher rate for the 2% as most republican voters support because Obama will have that whatever they do. They're fighting now to avoid ticking off Norquist not to pass a true bipartisan bill.
"I don't want to pay for those that don't have my ambition or work as hard as me. We should get rid of social supports so that people will be forced to work."
This tired paraphrased argument gets repeated incessantly.
Ok, let's get rid of unemployment, food stamps, vocational rehabilitation (oops), mental health services.. What else do you propose we end?
Enough of this minimum wage, part time BS while giant businesses post record profits and upper management/administrative get exorbitant pay raises. How about paying workers a living wage? That would go a long way in limiting the number of people on the system.
DB Akron
My eyes are open, I do think, you don't know me as much as I don't know you, you don't know my life experience. You don't know what I have survived. You don't know my intelligence nor my education level, you don't know who I am nor what I know. You don't know where I am from nor what I have witnessed. You don't know who I know and interact with, nor what I have learned from them. You don't know what I think, why I see things the way I do. You don't know how my experience has molded me nor what I have overcome. All you know of me is what I post and what you read into it, the same as I only know of you what you post and what I read into it. I have seen things you have posted that I know are wrong, yet you believe you are right. I know from some of these posts that what you think is right is in reality incomplete, so you are lacking the full picture, unless your post is intentionally misleading.You may think the same of me. I know I don't know everything nor do you, if I believed I did I would truly be a fool. Perhaps you are more intelligent perhaps you are not. Perhaps I sometimes post what I post for a reason you don't know. Perhaps it is you that needs to open your eyes and think, perhaps it is me. I don't claim to know everything nor should you, I have learned that true wisdom cannot be reached until one realizes how little one actually knows, that is not an admission of stupidity nor an admission of ignorance, just a realization of how much is really out there. A realization that as much as one knows there is so much more that one does not know. I will end this post now, there is so much more I could say but there is no reason to.
Have a good day.
DB Akron
Of all the people on the vine, why the interest and the desire to make me see things your way?
That only works when rates are high enough that increased growth exceeds lost revenue. Since the debt exploded under both Reagan and Bush I'd say we exceeded that point. Reagan tripled the debt and Bush doubled it. Not a selling point for trickle down.
good post snakebone altho it obviously fell on def ears.i guess when hatred is all you have left you hold onto it for all your worth
Antistupidity
And Obama has continued every policy of GWB times two. What reamins to be determined is whether GWB was "Obama lite" or if Obama is "GWB on steriods"... Either way we're @!$%#ed for MANY years to come.
Backcountry164
If that is the case., and conservatives like Bush so much, why do they hate Obama so much?
While he did keep on many of the same fiscal people for continuity, and to not lose time getting new people up to speed, I happen to disagree, history will undoubtedly give us the answer.
How many tax cuts do republicans have to give to the rich before they figure out that we the people don't believe that trickle down theory of their's??
The only trickle that money does is going into their bank account.
They take the money, downsize, lay people off, then say with another tax cut we can hire more people, republicans give them another tax cut and they do the same thing again, when will it end?
Only true life idiots believe republicans are right and the President is wrong.
Republicans are willing to nail all our asses to the wall in order to keep the rich from paying their fair share.
Taxing the rich alone won't fix things, but it is a good start, giving them another tax cut and making the already hit hard middle class pay for it, is just plain wrong.
topane:
You wrote: “How many tax cuts do republicans have to give to the rich before they figure out that we the people don't believe that trickle down theory of their's??” We the people? Who the hell are you, and who elected you the people’s representative? We have a president; his name is Obama; he represents the people, not you. FYI: Trickle down economics or “Reaganomics was one of the most successful social and economic experiments in world history” (Peter Ferrara: Still Fighting Reaganomics, June, 2008). You’re just talking non-sense.
You wrote: “They take the money, downsize, lay people off, then say with another tax cut we can hire more people, republicans give them another tax cut and they do the same thing again, when will it end?” Please cite your sources. You can’t, because this is a complete fabrication. Where are you getting this stuff from, Pravda?
You wrote: “Only true life idiots believe republicans are right and the President is wrong.” Only a fool doesn’t understand American politics. Subjective opinion is worthless claptrap. Now, if you think that Obama is right, then by all means, argue your point with verifiable evidence to support your claims. If you’re unwilling, or unable to do that, then you’re nothing but a blow hard.
You wrote: “Republicans are willing to nail all our asses to the wall in order to keep the rich from paying their fair share.” This is a straw man argument. You are exaggerating and distorting the truth to make a point. Answer this question: How do you know for a fact that the wealthy aren’t already contributing more then their fair share to the American economy?
You wrote: “Taxing the rich alone won't fix things, but it is a good start, giving them another tax cut and making the already hit hard middle class pay for it, is just plain wrong.” If taxing the rich won’t fix things, then please explain the economic benefit of an exercise in futility? Furthermore, where and from whom did you hear or read that anyone was even considering giving the wealthy a tax cut that the middle class would pay for?
Speculating about the truth to make a point is just plain wrong. It’s your credibility, if you’re going to lie and make misrepresentations that are easily checked, then no one will have reason to believe you.
.
Boehner offered to go with a tax hike on incomes over $1 million and Obama seemed willing to go from $250k up to $400k. Just pick a number already and go with it -- at this point it's mostly symbolic anyway, and has little to do with cutting the deficit.
If cutting the deficit is really the most important thing, then just do nothing and let's go over the cliff. Maybe some people forgot the '90s already, but we all paid a lot more taxes then, and the government spent a lot less then -- and someone it was a time of tremendous prosperity.
Maybe there's a pot of gold at the bottom of the so-called fiscal cliff :)
Antistupidity
For the same reasons liberals hate the most liberal republican President in history, GWB... Blind, partisan hackery.
Spend and print, spend and print, spend and print just like Bush. Record levels of new regulations just like Bush. Increase in defense spending nearly equal that of Bush's first term and Bush started 2 wars, what's Obamas excuse? Increase the debt by as much as Bush (in half the time of course). Gitmo still open, Dept of Homeland Security Expanded (soon we'll have drones flying over head, whoopie), Tax cuts we can't afford (SS was in trouble BEFORE Obama decided we could all pitch in a little less in payroll taxes). The only difference between Obama and Bush is charisma and all that is good for is conning the sheeple into believing he is in any way better than his predecessor. And as far as history giving us the answer we'll likely have to wait until the current crop of worshipers have passed on before we'll get an accurate assessment. I guess there is another difference between the two, Bush never had a cult like following.
I readily admit Obama is not the best person we could have had for POTUS, by the same token, I feel he was the better of two really @!$%#ty choices, I admit he is not a strong nor focused leader and can be a real schmuck at times and he needs to stop campaigning, the campaign is over, are you willing to admit the same about GWB.
I also think the GOP led house needs to do what is best for the majority of the people not a privileged few.
Antistupidity
I have to disagree, it is painfully obvious at this point that Hillary Clinton would have made a far better President than Barak Obama. You guys went for flash over substance and now you (and the rest of us) are stuck with it and the consequences.
As for GWB, I'm a libertarian, I spent 7 1/2 years bitching about Bush (I gave Obama 6 months also albeit with the same trepidations that I had with Bush) for pretty much the same reasons that I bitch about Obama now. But Bush has been gone for four years, so continuing to complain about him at this point is nothing more than sour grapes and excuse making.
My money is still on Bush being ranked above Obama, near the bottom of the list of course. After all Obama's done as much damage as Bush in half the time and there is nothing to make me believe he'll be able to undo that or even that he really wants to. His own debt commission recommended 3 to 1 spending cuts to tax increases but he won't even give 1 to 1. Taxing the rich just so we can waste even more money obviously isn't going to solve our problems and I think we can agree that Obama is smart enough to see that.
Arkius
Do you must be a die-hard republican voter to believe Reagan, Bush Sr, Bush Jr all of the tax cuts they gave to the rich actually helped the American economy, you probably believe the Ryan tax plan will help as well.
Raising taxes on the rich won't solve all problems, but that along with spending cuts will solve a lot of them, but the cuts must be across the board, not just on the backs of the poor and middle class.
If you believe people didn't take the tax cut money that was supposed to be for improving their companies and hiring more people,are you really saying that companies didn't lay off workers, downsized, moved their company overseas for cheaper labor, made the unemployment situation as bad as it is, you're as nutty as your letter implies.
Any tax cut given to the rich will be offset by spending cuts that the poor and middle class use and need, such as Welfare, Social Security, SSI, Disability, Medicare, VA, the Postal Service, these and many more cuts republicans wanted to do had Romney won the presidency, that is how the poor and middle class would have had to pay for the tax cut for the rich, by cutting their benefits.
All spending cuts offered by republicans will only hurt the poor and middle class, they have offered no spending cuts that will affect the rich.
Welfare for every poor man, woman and child in America cost the government $50 billion a year that is too much money so it has to be cut, but welfare for the rich which is called government subsidies cost 150 billion a year, but that is not to be touched.
If republicans are allowed to privatize Social Security and it goes bankrupt, which it will within ten years, how are the millions of people that depend on it to live going to survive, more people will become homeless, retirees that didn't save enough to live on will have to live with their kids or they will become homeless, that is nailing your ass to the wall.
Believe whatever you like, but the truth is, republicans don't give a damn about you me or anybody else that's not rich.
topane:
Sorry, I’m an Independent. I do professional research, so when Reagan, Bush Sr, Bush Jr were in the White House. I researched their plans for the economy, mostly by asking professional economists what they thought of their plans.
You claim Reagan, Bush Sr, Bush Jr only gave tax cut to the wealthy, you are wrong. Their tax cuts were across the board, i.e., to all tax brackets. I asked you to provide evidence to support your claims, but you haven’t done so, you have just repeated the same supposition.
You wrote: “”Raising taxes on the rich won't solve all problems, but that along with spending cuts will solve a lot of them, but the cuts must be across the board, not just on the backs of the poor and middle class.” This does not make any sense. Please explain how spending cuts are done “across the board?”
You wrote: “If you believe people didn't take the tax cut money that was supposed to be for improving their companies and hiring more people, are you really saying that companies didn't lay off workers, downsized, moved their company overseas for cheaper labor, made the unemployment situation as bad as it is, you're as nutty as your letter implies.” Again, you’re not making any sense. People don’t take tax cut money. Clearly, you’ve never owned a small business, or filed an “S” Corp. Tax return.
Corporations and small businesses use accountants to keep their books and do their taxes. If a corporations or small business claims a tax deduction for making improvements and hiring workers, they have to show IRS the receipts. They have to show the payroll tax deductions receipts for all the workers they hired, the FICA, etc. and there is usually a qualifying amount, e.g., 10 workers or 30 workers. If a business makes improvements, they have to include the receipts, i.e., the bills they paid with their tax returns.
Were you out of town during the presidential campaign? Obama stated that he would also make cuts to Welfare, Social Security, SSI, Disability, Medicare, VA, the Postal Service, etc., but his gimmick is that he wanted to do it in a “balanced approached,” i.e., for every dollar cut from the budget, a dollar raised in taxes. Have you heard anything about the “balanced approached” over the last two weeks? No, because it was bull@!$%# during the campaign, and it’s bull@!$%# now. You were duped, don’t you get it? Obama lied to you. He looked you in the eyes and lied to you; just like Clinton did, remember: I did not have sex with that woman. The two liars on the stage during the Democratic National Convention, and you bought it. LMAO.
You wrote: “Welfare for the rich which is called government subsidies cost 150 billion a year, but that is not to be touched.” Again, you do not make any sense. The United States government does not subsidies wealthy individuals in any way. If you have any proof that they do, then please present it.
You wrote: “If republicans are allowed to privatize Social Security and it goes bankrupt, which it will within ten years, how are the millions of people that depend on it to live going to survive.” You’re begging the question. You do not even know what the Republican plan is to privatize Social Security, so how can you predict that it will go bankrupt within ten years?
I’m a scientist by profession, I don’t believe in anything that I cannot prove by experimentation or by using the Scientific Method. Nothing you wrote has a foundation in reality. You have not provided any evidence to support any of your arguments; they are all your worthless subjective opinion.
Your writing in barely coherent or rational. You need to have more clarity of thought in your writing, and to provide evidence for your arguments.
Arkius,
You say you're a independent and you do professional research, you sound like a die-hard republican voter that live,think and breathe republican lies and swear they're the truth.
I am not a republican so there is no proof I can give you that you will believe.
Backcountry164
Actually I changed my registration from independent to democrat so I could vote for Hillary in the primary, but the media pushed Obama over the top and did everything they could to stop Hillary. I will be pulling and voting for her again if she runs in 2016, unless the republicans can come up with a better candidate, but they have been dismal in the recent past, Romney??? With Norquist and the cock bros.sticking their noses in everything for their own personal gain, how much worse can it get, we will see. In fact the only US president I liked in my lifetime that I am old enough to remember is Bubba Clinton, and I really don't care if he was getting it shined in the oval office, I have no doubt most if not all the presidents have had a little extracurricular activity in the oval office late at night, whether it was with their own wives is another story. You think JFK didn't, wouldn't you?
topane:
You talk like a complete fool. It's as if you suffer from some mental illness that impedes your ability to reason with the written word.
I told you that I'm a political Independent, but you still have a problem understanding that, because you claim that I "sound" like a Republican. What does a Republican sound like? Is it a certain pitch to there voice. If it is, then you are really mentally deranged, because this site doesn't have sound mode.
I told you that I'm a professional research scientist, which means that I investigate things for a living. I investigate political ideology, and campaign rhetoric during campaigns, because I want to make informed decisions. What is it about that process that you find so difficult to comprehend?
If my political research turns up something that I have verified as true, then I'd be a fool to reject it. You, on the other hand, admit that your not a Republican; therefore, you can not offer any proof to support your claims, or refute mine.
topane, if you can't support your claims or refute mine, then how can you possibly say that I "live,think and breathe republican lies and swear they're the truth (sic)." You admit that you have no proof to make such claims, but you make them anyway. Really, are you mentally ill?
Arkius, you must understand that this is a very far left radical vine and that a greater number of the posters are socialist radicals who will never comprehend free enterprise, free market and capitalism. They are brainwashed and entrenched into thinking that they must be taken care of by big central govenment and the thought of self reliance and opportunity is very scary to them.....You cannot convince them that two and two equals four. They see the governments bank account as never being empty...and that they should have access to all the money that evil rich people have accumulated. That is their whole theory and Obama is playing them for all it is worth. Of course this path to socialism will fail badly(is failing badly) but the reaction will be that our country just did not embrace socialism enough and that they will next time vote for even more hardline socialism and radicalism. The media will lead the way.
If you don't like it what are you doing here, it is a free country, and a free blog, you may leave anytime you wish, but i bet you secretly like it here and just make a noise to try deflect that fact.
It is none of your business what I am doing here. This is not a place that you own...or make the rules for. You have no standing that no one else has. You have no authority that no one else has. I will decide for myself what purpose that I have ...and you are free to ignore it....The socialist left is so intent on making rules that they think all others must live by. Do you understand now? Doubtful...
Looks like I touched a nerve.
no...Just informing you of the truth....
Stupidity:
Is that your goal in life, to touch nerves? Apparently, touching a nerve has become a badge of honor for the academically inept.
So far, you haven't displayed the intellectual acumen necessary to construct an interesting or meaningful argument. Your greatest effort was to challenge J.A.'s description of this venue, which he has every right to do; it is, after all a public web site. You, on the other hand are no better than any other reader here, and can claim no special privilege to rebuke anyone.
Clearly, you have demonstrated a poor understanding of current political issues, and have made a complete fool of yourself in the process. Let me guess: You're a Liberal Democrat.
J.A., I think he's a Liberal, and I think that no matter how much we try to help him get a life, he will insist on clinging to his absurdities. Well, you can lead a horse to water…..
Never Stop
let's just look at one of the lefty talking points and pablum and call the rest of them ignorant and useless:
"a democrat President waged a war on poverty"...hahahahaha
when the clown started the "war on poverty" the poverty rate in America was around 14%.........
today the poverty rate is?...wait ...wait for it...you got it "14%"
stone waste of trillions of dollars...now back into mom's basement with you
damn Arkius , smacked down the tomane righteously , I see she still hasn't posted any "data" , oh well , when you are a lefty Chavez all you have to do is "say" something and it is fact
Obama can't blame the crisis on anyone but Obama. Obama had a super majority 2 years ago and created a mess. He owns it. Just like he blamed Bush, the world will blame Obama. And if the media supports the corrupt Democrat all heck will break loose for an American Spring.
No, the "world" won't blame President Obama for anything. On the contrary, the "world" likes President Obama. In fact, the only people who don't like President Obama are Republican extremist wingnuts.
Rober34,
A majority of the American voters recently proved you wrong.
Please step out of the conservative echo chamber and put your hands up.
You are under arrest for knowingly spreading the stupid.
Rober
Your post sounds like you really have no clue as to the problem, the attempts to fix them or of basically anything that is going on. None of this fiscal cliff BS was even on the horizon the first two years. And even if it were, you sound like the Republicans aren't to blame because the President should have done everthing without them (oh we can only wish!).
But then the fact that the President only had a majority for a couple of weeks throws out your whole idea.
Please try to keep up with actual events. It probably won't help your blood pressure but at least you will have the actual facts to work with rather than what you seem to think happened in the alternate reality you seem to live in.
And the ones who actually work work for a living are not to crazy about Obama Reality Check.
Obama did not have a "super majority" for two years. It was actually less than a month and a half of actual working days:
http://washingtonindependent.com/74033/the-four-month-supermajority
The world gave obama the peace prize before he even did anything other than finish the bush withdrawal from iraq. He then increased troops into Afghanistan too bad they didn't wait. Now they pretend that's ok too.
It already has started if you criticize obama too much on a topic where a librel can't come up with a argument they will just accuse you of being a racist.
He HAD a super majority of only 4 months of time out of that 2 years. The rest of the time, the democrats did not have a super majority to prevent a republican filibuster. Do some research and stop your lying.
Oh, but Starbuck, Republicans cannot seem to stop lying, though. They make up "facts," then cling to them stubbornly, even though they're provably, demonstrably false. These people live in an alternate reality of their own creation, and though you'd think the beatdown they suffered on Nov. 6 would shake them and wake them, well... you'd be wrong.
The GOP fools in Congress have already shown that they were more than willing to tank the US economy to get the black Democrat out of the Oval Office. That didn't work, so now they're showing they're willing to mortgage the economic future of the country to extend, once again, the Bush tax cuts for the super wealthy.
Actually, it was 7 months, but even then the idea of a supermajority is misleading, as two of the Senators who caucused with Democrats were technically independents. Furthermore, one of them is Joe Lieberman, who didn't accept the fact that Dems were rejecting his DINO status by voting him out in the primary, and thus ran as an independent. Yes, he sort of caucused with the democrats, but he was far more Republican on many issues, including health care reform (which helped contribute to the mess that the final bill ended up being).
No Joe, you're wrong again and it appears that you have been brainwashed. The only cure is 1 year without cable news or the internet. After that, you should be fine but are subject to relapse if you go back to your old addictive ways.
hey joe i actually work for a living and guess what i fully support obama
Reality Check already provided you with an excellent solutions to your apparent chronic Obama dyspepsia, yet, I can't help but add that your statement is just another way of stating Romney's 47% flaw.
Not only is it wrong factually and morally, it's as silly as it is worthless. You need to 86 that talking point mostly because it's counterproductive to your cause.
The more you see the rest of us as your enemy, the more paranoid you will need to become.
Taintted, if you do actually work for a living and voted for Oblama, there must be some significant reason. Union, race, government handout. Certainly, not your education or understanding of the economy or his lack of leadership.
Wherever you 'work', hang on. Your taxes are going up under this guy. And contrary to the numerous lies he spouts anytime he opens his mouth, your taxes are going up regardless of what happens to the fabled '1%'. His spending is too out-of-control for any tax increase to offset.
Enjoy your life, Oblama boy. The price of blind-faith just went up. And please feel free to come back to the board and give us a report of you take-home pay after the man you voted for gets an increased piece of your money.
Funny how the rt wingers call the middle class socialists while the republican rich use their money to have laws skewed in their favor to enable a greater share of welfare for themselves.
They obstruct and vote against laws to remove tax breaks for taking jobs overseas, they obstruct giving tax breaks for companies that would bring American jobs back, they only pay 15% on their income through capital gains tax loopholes, block vote to remove oil subsides on big oil when big oil execs said they don't need them. Law after law created to not pay their fair share, and the biggest share of wealth has been going to the top 1% for years and years while the middle class wealth has been shot to hell.
The real welfare queens are the rich who take their profits and put them into offshore accounts while using all the infrastructure of the United States to make themselves richer. The whole time...the 1% tell the uninformed Fox news watchers that everyone but the 1% needs to keep paying the taxes the 1% should be paying........and the Fox news watcher..."they ain't right" cheer against themselves!!!! DOH!
@hjack... I also work and have my own business and also voted for Obama. I am so glad my wife will now get medical care after years of being refused because of a condition she has had since childhood, but does not take meds for. I am also glad he wants to raise taxes on the wealthy. If lower taxes are the solution, wheres all the jobs from all the previous years of lower taxes? Yea, the profits go up and the wages stay stagnant. CEO pay up 300%. Wages still at 1980 levels. Who lives in a bubble? I also have my oldest son graduating from Stanford University, so your blame of less education seems to be coming from your lack of.
THE ULTIMATE ACT OF IRRESPONSIBILTY...........
starting 2 wars and lowering taxes. no war was ever fought without raising taxes. the Federal Income Tax was created to fund the Civil War. Lincoln DOUBLED the tax rate on the highest wage earners well into the war to provide additional funding.
.....so if you want to thank someone for the majority of our debt say thanks to mr 'national guard no-show' bush and mr dickless '5 deferment' cheny.
Even republicans knew Bush was responsible for our meltdown by a 2 to 1 margin. Anyway you spin it the world knows what happened the last 6 months of Bush's presidency and there's no way to blame Obama for it without looking like a fool.
Cat-1200657
This is such utter BS I can't believe anyone is actually stupid enough to believe it. The ONLY reason he didn't TECHNICALLY have a super majority is because Lieberman ran as an independent after he lost the dem primary and Saunders is registered as a socialist. BOTH men caucused with the Dems giving them a super-majority during the first two years of Obama's Presidency.
Could anyone who believes this nonsene please explain how Obama got the "stimulus" package or Obamacare passed without a super-majority???????
Let's all hold hands and jump together.
America has a SPENDING PROBLEM!
Obama lives in a world all his own, not wanting to realize, raising taxes on the so called wealthy solves nothing!
@mark williams-1383940
Destroyed by 12 years of massive and unprecedented new regulation costs. If you legitimately want an answer then you have to look at the WHOLE picture not just the little piece that supports your position.
Oh, you mean go back to the deregulation that caused the global collapse of the economy... right. That worked so well the last time.
So where are my conservative friends protesting the republicans for raising taxes on 100% of the American people?
Yes, if republicans don't prevent this cluster of a mess, they have essentially raised taxes on everyone. No decision is a decision... republicans decided that everyone's taxes should rise.
You can not put lipstick on that pig.
Obama forgets it takes two to tango. The Democrat's insistence for a tax increase for anyone above $250,000 is also to blame for the impasse. I wish just once he would say something that isn't a flat out lie or half truth.
The House passed many bills and they were sent to the Senate where Harry put them on his desk and left them. Never getting to the Senate floor or seeing the light of honest debate!
AT THE SAME TIME HARRY USED HIS POSITION AS LEADER OF THE SENATE TO BRAND THE REPUBLICANS AS DO NOTHING AND OBSTRUCTIONIST!
Not a bad liar that Harry guy! But, the Democrats have had years of practice!
They know that. It's just another right wing lie to add to the list. They knew they couldn't beat Obama on facts so lies is all they had. Too bad for them the majority of Americans are brighter than they are.
Caucusing with democrats doesn't make them democrats it simply means they share values or similar views. Even democrats aren't blind followers as republicans are because they vote the views of their voters and aren't held to a pledge. If Obama accepts a compromise that includes a chained CPI many democrats will not support it. Republicans vote in lock step for their agenda, democrats don't have an agenda, they simply vote what they believe is best for their constituents. Republicans were like that before the tea party.
He won the presidency with that as his main pledge. Every poll shows republican voters support raising taxes on the 2% by a 2 to 1 margin. Why is this still an issue? Because republicans owe their allegiance to Norquist and big corporations not their voters. Had Romney won republicans would have demanded democrats pass his tax cut plan as his win would have validated his mandate yet think Obama should back down. The same logic they used when Reagan won and democrats voted against what they believed supporting his cuts which led to having to increase the debt ceiling 18 times. The most of any President in history.
Larry,
Best posts today...thanks.
Culheath: Thank you.
Hjack: It's called love of country, something many in the tea party will never understand. They can't understand why someone paying $10,000 a year in taxes wouldn't vote for someone offering them a $2,000 break. or someone like Buffet or Gates who would have saved millions under Romney. We saw what the tax cuts Bush gave took us from balanced budgets to massive debt and saw more of the same with Romney. Is Bush's leadership what you long for? You know the one that increased our debt from 5.7 trillion to 12.1 trillion or that led to the worst economic collapse since 1929? They talk about Obamas spending but never questioned Bushs last defict of 1.2 trillion.
You won't find many topics liberals have a problem arguing unlike most posts by those on the right limited to 1 line insults or twisted facts.
starsailing:
First, I think you should man-up and tell the readers that you're a paid shill for the Liberal/Democratic Party.
Next, explain to the readers how congress or the IRS is able to distinguish Republican money from the Hollywood, Liberal/ Democrat/ Socialist money. If the Republicans influence congress to pass tax laws that benefits wealthy Republicans, doesn't it also benefit the wealthy, Hollywood Celebrity Elite, and other wealthy Democrats?
Hypothetically, if the wealthy, Hollywood Celebrity Elites, and other wealthy Democrats benefit from the Republican effort, how do we know that the wealthy Democrats aren't colluding with the Republicans to push the legislation? How do we know that the wealthy Democrats didn't initiate the whole scheme?
You wrote: "They obstruct and vote against laws to remove tax breaks for taking jobs overseas, they obstruct giving tax breaks for companies that would bring American jobs back, they only pay 15% on their income through capital gains tax loopholes, block vote to remove oil subsides on big oil when big oil execs said they don't need them." Where's your proof that it only Republicans that do this? Cite some verifiable sources; otherwise, this is nothing more then your Socialist propaganda.
You wrote: "Law after law created to not pay their fair share, and the biggest share of wealth has been going to the top 1% for years and years while the middle class wealth has been shot to hell." Again, where's your proof. Cite some verifiable sources; otherwise, this is nothing but your Socialist propaganda.
You need to stop watching NBC news. It's the American equivalent to the old Soviet propaganda rag, Pravda. You are a Socialist pig. You could not care less about the American middle class, because you hate America, and you hate all Americans.
Go kiss the Manchurian Candidate's ass.
reality check:
The misnamed Democratic dupe wrote: “No, the "world" won't blame President Obama for anything. On the contrary, the "world" likes President Obama.” You don’t get out much, do you? Netanyahu hates Obama, former French President Sarkozy doesn’t like him, German Chancellor, Angela Merkel doesn’t respect him, the British PM, David Cameron doesn’t like him, and Vladimir Putin thinks he’s a first class dork. Sorry dude, if the leaders of the world don’t like him, I have no reason to believe that their countryman will like him much either.
Let’s see, 47% of America thinks he’s a jerk, most of America’s allies think he’s a jerk, the Russian leader thinks he’s a jerk, most Europeans think he’s a jerk. It looks like you’re the only person who doesn’t know what’s going on in the world, i.e., the only people who like Obama are Socialist sheeple, like you. You need to get out more.
Arkius- The Muslim Brotherhood likes him just fine! Obama is working tirelessly to put more countries into their grasp! Just something to think on!
topane725, as for Arkius being in research I would suspect it is not scientific research but more like economic and statistical stuff. In my entire life as a research scientist at NASA, USGS, EPA and academia I have never met many research scientists that were Republican. It just doesn't going along with the mentality of being a research scientist. The only one I ever met was greedy and selfish always looking for a way to make money. Actually he was one of those profs that I studied remote sensing theory under. He passed away at 43 about two years ago. I think Arkius is full of BS unless he is in the social science arena of research as I mentioned earlier.
Intellect:
The last scientific thing you did in you life, was put sugar in your coffee.
After reading your comments, I can not, for one second, believe that you have a background in science.
Arkius, in your dreams. I am published in peer review scientific journals and have been since my first graduate year. Real science and not social science stuff. So go back to your polisci stuff and make all of your conjectures that you want.
Pseudo-intellect:
Sorry, but I’m not buying into your sixth grade bravado.
You neither exhibit the intellectual insights of a scientist, nor do you behave like one. We neither brag, nor use our academic accomplishments to enhance our position in an academic argument or debate. In addition, we never badmouth another scientific discipline, never; it’s just bad form, and completely unacceptable within the academic community.
With this degree, comes responsibility: These words have appeared on every Ph.D awarded in the United States since 1784. Clearly, you have not earned a Ph.D.
Go away little boy, and brag to the other little boys who are impressed with your boasting; I’m not.
I blame the Obstructionist House. The President tries working with them but they won't because they hate the man. It really is that simple. They hate the man so much that they will risk the future of our country over the hate of one man. One can only hope that the people who voted for these failures will see the light in the next election cycle.
When is the last time that the Senate actually did the budget process in the Senate? The Senate hasn't in over 3 years.
Yeah...me too. After 8 years of Obama and the Socialist Democrats...America had better wake up. It will take 200 more years to undo what these idiots are doing. Man...the founding fathers are turning over in their graves. Yeah...but thats just old men and and old piece of paper. They are irrelevant today. Obama is an arrogant bastard who wants to be king. Period.
K I
Pee the Constitution all spending bills (including the budget) must originate in the House. The Senate can try but they have to do all sorts of gyrations in the House to make it look like it originated here.
Nope, this falls strictly in the realm of the responsibilities of the House and they have failed miserably.
dsb - - And when is the last time that the Senate actually did the budget process in the Senate
Could you people (KISS and SteveRandomnumbers) just admit you are racists so we can move on?
Big Trouble - I actually want Congress to solve the Debt problem, you are the one that mentioned race you must be the one with the race problem.
hey steve-o i believe reality check was talking about the do nothing republicans who would rather see us go over this fiscal cliff rather than raise taxes on those making 250k+. its going to take 20 years just to fix what bush and his cronies did to this country.
THE ULTIMATE ACT OF IRRESPONSIBILITY
Starting 2 wars and lowering taxes. No war was EVER fought without raising taxes. The Federal Income Tax was created to fund the Civil War. Lincoln DOUBLED the rate on the highest wage earners well into the war to provide additional funding.
........so if you want to thank someone for the majority of our current debt you can say thanks to mr 'national guard no-show' bush and mr dickless' 5 deferment ' cheney.
Reality: The reality is that our president is out of touch. Who in their right mind would raise salaries of Congress and Federal workers during a weak economy. Millions of people are still unemployed and millions of people can't find work, this all makes no sense. The President has an addiction to spending money that we don't have. He's bringing this whole country down and I wonder why?
obama is taking down the U.S. because he thinks, NO, he wants us to be a 3 rd world country.Remember his hope and change speeches.He changed the face of this country from world leader to a second rate one in 4 yrs.I pray this country survives his last 4 yr .All he's done is bribe welfare,illegal aliens,by giving them cellphones,food stamps(sent people to Mexico to show them how to apply when they get here and what states give the most).Talks down to Americans like they are stupid,like some of his cronies in congress,senate.He figures we can't do any thing for ourselves,don't know how to feed our kids,live, work or play. He reminds me of NERO(fiddled while Rome burned)he just does not care about Americans.When his grandmother was dying he only spent 2 hrs. with her and went back to campaign.She had a hip replaced a year before she died,he thought it was a waste of money and all these people think he(obama)cares about them,I doubt he cares about any thing but himself. Wait till you see what his great health care plan is going to cost you.
dsb,
The Constitution as it reads requires the President to submit a complete budget to Congress for their review (due by the 1st Monday in February for the year). Both houses of Congress vote on a final budget agreement which is sent back the President for final signature before becoming law. It's the "check and balance" system between branches. It has served this country well for 200 years.
Again, it is the Presidents responsibility "first". Obama has yet to submit a complete budget to Congress for four years now. There in lies much of the problem. He isn't doing his job in this respect and refuses to follow the fundamental outline of the Constitution. Does he know how? Good question. Historically Obama doesn't like to follow Constitutional law. That is also part of the problem.
You're simply clueless. Obama has made his proposals every year which have included tax increases to raise more revenue and republicans respond with offers of massive cuts but no tax increases. Though they don't seem opposed to tax increases only affecting the middle class which doesn't seem to violate the Norquist pledge. A full budget proposal isn't submitted until boih sides reach compromise. When republicans state they won't compromise 1 penny on new revenue talks are dead. It isn't democrats ignoring the wishes of their constituents it's republicans. According to polls republicans support slightly higher taxes on those making 250K or over $20,000 a month it's only the right wing that pledges to Norquist that ignores the wishes of voters.
Reality check? You have the gall to call your self reality check? Are you kidding? Narrow minded lackey is closer to the truth.
How could you possibly say that Obama has tried working with the Republicans in the House of Representative, when you know that he campaigned on a platform of raising taxes, and you knew that for the last three years, many House Republicans had pledged not to raise taxes on any American tax payers under any conditions?
How could you possibly accuse the House of being obstructionist, when Obama ran on a confrontational platform? And you wonder why House Republicans find Obama distasteful? He’s a lying pig. He won the election by 50.9% to 47.8%; he has no popular mandate to support his platform. He needs to compromise with the House Republicans on the big-ticket issues. Does it appear to you that he’s done that? NO.
The Republicans, on the other hand, are still morally obligated to represent 47% of the voters that supported Romney. They are not obstructing legislation, they are doing what they were elected to do, i.e., represent the political will of 47% of the people.
Obama claims that raising taxes on people making $250,000 and up, is forcing them to pay their fair share. He is lying to you, and you are too stupid to do the math. Raising taxes on people making $250,000 and up, will fund the government for 84 days, what do you propose we do the rest of the fiscal year moron, knit money?
Obama is pushing his agenda for one reason only, to force the Republicans to give in; to make them eat dirt. Do you really think that that is an honest effort at compromise?
Larry:
You look like you need a clue. Here's one that will help you stop making a fool of yourself in public.
It's the Norquist Pledge. The person signing the pledge: "Promises to "oppose any and all efforts to increase the marginal income tax rate for individuals and business; and to oppose any net reduction or elimination of deductions and credits, unless matched dollar for dollar by further reducing tax rates" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover_Norquist).
As you can see, it doesn't mention the Middle Class or the Lower Class or the Upper Class, those class concepts are the lies that the Obama sluts fed you, and those are the lies that you couldn't suck down fast enough. How does it feel to be Obama's dog?
BTW: Both Conservative and Centrist Republicans signed the pledge.
Here's another news flash for you: 62% of Americans want both Obama and Congress to co-operate and get something done.
reality check 1- The house passed and sent to the Senate many Bills! Harry put them on his desk and never let them come up for even honest debate! At the same time he labeled them do nothing and obstructionist!
I say again, a very accomplished liar that Harry fellow! Not surprising you would be one of his followers!
DKWhite, I respectfully disagree. (And believe me, it's difficult for me to use the word "respectfully".) President Obama is sticking to his guns and keeping his promise to the middle class. This will fall on the GOP as an absolute failure on their part. And, I guess I could live with a couple of years of higher taxes if it means cleaning out the house and senate of all the Republicans in 2014. In fact, I'm quite excited by that prospect.
James...Thank for the respect and as such I will return it in kind....If you want to see a country governed by the left look to the West and the state of CA. You've got it. It is a failed state driven by extremests on the left (Democrats) that have exactly what they have dreamed of an unencumbered majority to push through any and all acts they derive the public in need of...including public pensions for everyone....It is insane...
I agree with you Jane, I am ready to jump!
Meaningful spending cuts need to happen. I don't agree that the "dog whistle" cuts the Republicans use to outrage America are where we need to start. I think we should start by cutting fraud and waste out of EVERY government program. For every "welfare momma" story the right tells, I can match with one just as outrageous from the Department of Defense!
I know polls are not something that Republicans like to believe, but they were not in your favor throughout the election, and they don't appear to be now. I am a proud liberal, but understand this country runs the best with a good mix of both. The Republican party has sold their soul. The prospect of a little pain, to get rid of the current crop of Republicans is worth it to me!
And, the Republicans are sticking to their guns and keeping promises that they made to their constituents, who voted them into office. Why is iti ok for the President to try to keep his promises, but not anyone else? Yes, he won the Presidential election, but the Congressmen won theirs, as well.
classy because their constituents dont include the 98% of americans who this all will affect. the republicans only care about the top 2% that voted them in, they could give a rats ass about the rest of us.
Taintted, are you seriously suggesting that only the top 2% voted for the Republican candidate? That seems a bit farfetched. If it were the case, then only Dems would have won all the races, and that is not the case.
There are people out there who believe that raising taxes on the wealthy will effect jobs, raising the death tax will cause small businesses to close, and raising any tax in this economic environment will be detrimental overall. So, their constituents DO include 98% of Americans that this will affect overall.
Jane, please come back 3 months from now and tell us how 'excited' you are after you see the Oblama increased deductions on your check.
There are people out there who believe the earth is only 5000 years old and there is no global climate change happening too. The majority of the general public realizes that these imbeciles are crazy.
Jane H...
I agree. Going over the "cliff" is going to be better for this country than anything the republicans are going to agree to.
The spending cuts are equally divided between defense and domestic, while protecting SS and Medicare. Republicans will never agree to cuts more balanced than that. And the tax increases do away with the policies that allow people like Romney to pay 14% while school teachers and police officers making $50k-$70k pay 15% or more.
I'm guessing that it would cost me about $3K per year in additional taxes. But if it means that the investor class starts paying at least the percentage that I pay...then it will be worth it.
I hope Obama holds firm.
Jane H, We'll see how you and the rest of the Dems feel when all those yet-to-be-disclosed Obamacare taxes hit your paycheck (if they are working a job at all). What's amazing is that so many Dems think their health care will be free and feel entitled to free care. That must be some mighty strong koolaid they've been drinking.
The cost of Obamacare as designed will run deficits we've never seen with any welfare program (yes...it's another socialized welfare program). The travesty is Obama and Pelosi sold it as a method to reduce the national deficit. Yeah...the lies they tell.
Minan, right, there is almost a comparison between people who shun science, and those who can back up their beliefs by looking at past examples. When taxes go up, revenues can go down.
(taxfoundation.org/blog/does-lowering-taxes-increase-government-revenue)
Now, you may not believe this to be the case, and you may have examples to back up your beliefs, too. But, let's not pretend that it's crazy to think that raising taxes does not affect the things I mentioned. I don't think that you are crazy for thinking that raising taxes on wealthy is a good thing, I just don't agree with you that it will have the intended outcome. And, that does not make me crazy.
The taxfoundation is not exactly a valid source for information. Sounds like another fascist loving think tank to me
Of course it isn't. There is probably not a source available that I could show you that you would view as "credible" since it wouldn't back up your opinion. I only provided it because I knew that would be the next post: "where is your source?"
I could also have name Truthful Politics; the Heritage Foundation; eHow; smallbusiness.com; etc. But, there's not much point, since you won't even acknowledge that those who disagree with you might not be crazy.
You can fool some of the people most of the time and all of the people sometimes, but not all the people all the time! Obamination and his Liberal backers are on borrowed time!
Even criminals know they cannot rob the same person every time and expect to get much! the only one who doesn't get it is Obamination!
His tax the rich mantra is only meant for mind misdirection such as Hitler had with the Jews! It gives Obamination the in he needs to attack anything that he sees standing in his way of destroying this country!
Right wingers try to pretend that people that voted republican all support their opposition to increased taxes on the 2% when clearly that isn't true. Polls show that even republicans believe by a 2-1 margin that the 2% should pay more. Supporting the general ideals of a party doesn't mean belief in everything they support. Many democrats in congress are pro guns because a large percentage of democrats are. The problem of the republican party is they no longer represent main stream republicans but strictly the far right. Hard to sell to most Americans even main stream republicans that people making over $20,000 a month can't afford to pay 4.5% more in taxes.
Larry, that's a good point. I'm sure that some (or more) republicans do support raising taxes on the wealthy. Just as there may be a few Dems who are against it. I am hesitant to put a lot of faith in most polls, though. Whether the polling agency leans right or left, there are just too many ways to make the numbers say what you want them to. Again though, I have seen polls from both sides that say a majority support raising taxes on the wealthy.
As to the individual Congressman and how they vote: I guess it would depend on what platform they ran on. If they ran against raising taxes, and agree to do so with no kind of consessions from the other side, then they are not doing what they were elected to do.
"Jane, you ignorant slut", be careful what you wish for (Aykroyd:SNL,1977-78).
Taxes need to go up on everyone to get us out of the mess the government created. The question is what are the real, significant and immediate spending cuts the government is going to make.
Exactly. Why does this interview only focus on taxes? Most people (Republicans) don't care about taxing the rich a little more, but they want REAL spending cuts and entitlement reforms in exchange! Obama mentions nothing about that b/c he hasn't offered any compromise on those issues. He is just as much at fault if we go over the cliff - esp. since he is supposed to be the leader.
HManVa - all the GOP is doing is trying to steal more money from the middle class for the upper 1%.
For decades the politicians have been stealing SS money for the general fund and putting IOU's in return.
Where did that money go? In paying for 2 useless wars and who profited from that? The fat cats and uber rich and defense contractors.
Now when you finally have to pay back those IOU's the GOP says hold on - cut those bad entitlement programs.
Well - not going to happen. You want to see the rich and their compounds overrun by the screaming hordes of unemployed and those working 3 jobs to make ends meet? There will be Koch brothers heads on sticks if the GOP gets their way - but they won't because the people know they have been paying into those programs and they darn well better be funded.
Too bad for the wealthy that they may have to switch to domestic instead of imported caviar. They can afford a slight bump in their taxes. The rest of us 99% can't.
Common, Man, I believe you're half- right: "Taxes need to go up on everyone to get us out of the mess the
governmentcreated."Let's substitute 'greedy, reckless, scofflaw and just plain stupid Wall Street gamblers and banksters, aided and abetted by corrupt, hamstrung or non- existent government regulators'.
I'm down with raising taxes on everybody except the bottom quintile- have in fact been advocating exactly that ever since the economy imploded, BEFORE Obama's election- but until we get some meaningful, enforceable regulation on the bloated, parasitic and mostly unproductive financial sector of our economy, we're doomed to keep repeating the cycle of boom- and- bust.
Something like 85% of the people employed in the financial sector are parasites. Their activity creates no jobs, gets nothing built, nothing exported or milled, smelted or refined- in short, they add NO VALUE to the economy. Their entire existence consists of buying and selling paper to each other. Let them all call in sick one morning, and it might be a while before anybody except Manhattan taxi drivers and baristas even notices!*
*That's called 'humourous exaggeration to make a point.'
Did you miss the social security compromise he offered? Did you miss the raising of the tax increase to 400K? He tries to compromise, but when it is shoved back into his face for even more compromise, what is he to do? The sequester will take place, and everyone should be happy.