E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
House and Senate leaders from both parties will make their way to the White House this afternoon at President Barack Obama’s request for a last-ditch effort to reach an agreement to avoid the impending fiscal cliff.
Related: Obama bringing lawmakers to Oval Office for last-minute 'cliff' talks
The parties will enter the meeting seeming as far apart as ever on an agreement to avert the combination of automatic tax hikes and spending cuts set to take effect on Jan. 1. Republicans, led by House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, say they have acted – by passing an extension of all of the expiring Bush tax cuts, an unpalatable proposition to Democrats – and now it’s the Senate’s turn.
The speaker’s office said Boehner “will continue to stress that the House has already passed legislation to avert the entire fiscal cliff and now the Senate must act” at tomorrow’s meeting.
And the Senate, led by Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., is demanding that the GOP-held House assents to a bill that would allow taxes to rise on income over $250,000 per year.
Under pressure to show up even without a deal in hand, Congress will work this holiday weekend as the top Democrat and Republican leaders sit down with President Obama to discuss the fiscal cliff. NBC's Kelly O'Donnell reports.
This posturing by both parties amounts to little more than a stalemate in lawmakers’ effort to avert the fiscal cliff, just days before the deadline to forge a deal. With that in mind, here are the variables to watch, which could signal either breakthrough or failure on the fiscal cliff.
TONE: Hopes for a fiscal cliff compromise spiked on Nov. 16 when the same congressional leaders who are gathering Friday appeared jointly following their first meeting at the White House to hail the “constructive” conversation, all the while avoiding the usual partisan barbs.
Negotiations have deteriorated in the weeks since then, to say the least.
But with time running out before the end-of-year deadline, how or whether lawmakers speak following their meeting with Obama could speak volumes about the prospects for a deal.
If Boehner, Reid, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., appear jointly – as they did in mid-November – it might portend good things about a potential resolution to the fiscal cliff.
But if they take to the microphones outside the West Wing separately (or issue statements), offering more vitriolic rhetoric and finger pointing, it would suggest bleak prospects for ongoing negotiations.
PROCESS: Much of the recent stalemate in Congress, as outlined above, involves whether it’s up to the House or the Senate to act first to resolve the fiscal cliff.
Recommended: Nearly out of time, lawmakers brace for blame on fiscal cliff
Neither party wants to be the one to make the first major concession, meaning that the House is looking to the Senate (and vice-versa) to be the first chamber to “jump,” so to speak.
Boehner has clearly and repeatedly signaled his desire to let the legislative process take its course. He argues that the Senate should amend any of the earlier tax bills that the Republican House has passed. The Senate could conceivably gut that legislation, replace it with any alternative that the upper chamber desires, and send it back to the House to see whether it can pass.
Alternatively, Reid is simply demanding that Republicans pass an existing Democratic tax bill, which would preserve existing tax rates on income under $250,000 a year. (Republicans counter that this law has a so-called “blue slip” problem –asserting that it’s procedurally flawed because tax bills cannot originate in the Senate, according to the Constitution.)
If the leaders emerge from their meeting at the White House with a clear idea of which chamber might act first, it would be a first step toward resolving the fiscal cliff by the New Year’s Eve deadline.
Senator John Thune, R-S.D., and Senator Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., discuss the possibility of the country slipping over the fiscal cliff and weigh in on what needs to be the guiding principles in the last-ditch discussions.
NUMBERS: Senate Democrats want the House to pass a bill that would preserve existing tax rates on incomes below $250,000.
Obama offered a deal to Boehner that would preserve income beneath a slightly higher threshold: $400,000 per year.
Boehner tried – and failed – to pass a bill (his “Plan B”) that would have kept tax rates the same for all income under $1 million.
If the leaders emerge from the White House today with some sort of number on which they have agreed, it could provide the framework for a final agreement.
Related: Boehner calls House back to Washington on Sunday
Just as important have been the topline numbers – that is, the target total savings in an agreement as collected from new taxes, or alternatively, spending cuts.
The president initially sought $1.6 trillion in new tax revenue before lowering that target to $1.4 trillion. Republicans offered $800 billion in revenue, which they said could be collected through tax reform that closes a number of deductions and loopholes.
At the same time, Obama’s last offer to Boehner included $1.2 trillion in spending cuts, including $400 billion in savings from entitlement programs.
An agreement of that scale seems unlikely with just a few days to go until the deadline, but an agreement on these topline numbers – either on a small deal, or a big deal – would suggest a degree of progress toward a solution.
CAN-KICKING: One option available to lawmakers would be to do something they’ve done all along: punt the problem to a later deadline.
In many respects, the fiscal cliff represents the ultimate example of lawmakers’ habit of kicking the can down the road. The automatic spending cuts that compose part of the cliff grew out of their inability to reach an agreement with Obama on taxes and spending during the debt ceiling fight in 2011. And the impending tax hikes are the byproduct of a two-year extension of the 2001 Bush tax cuts past their original expiration date in 2010.
But what Congress can do, it can also undo. And that means they could conceivably agree to delay the onset of the fiscal cliff for weeks, months or even a year to give themselves breathing room to negotiate a deal.
Furthermore, a decision to delay the fiscal cliff could mean that the contours of a fiscal cliff compromise have taken shape, and that lawmakers just need more time to hammer out the details. Alternatively, another can-kicking incident could rattle markets thanks to another instance of governing by lurching from crisis to crisis. Furthermore, it would do little to resolve the uncertainty on taxes that is hanging over many businesses heading into the new year.
THE FLANKS: Lastly, it’s important to keep an eye on the flanks in both parties – liberal Democrats and conservative Republicans – in terms of how they react to today’s meeting, and any possible deal that might emerge.
How many liberals or conservatives finish the day rattling their sabers, versus sitting on their hands?
The more anger there is on either flank toward any potential proposal, the more difficult it becomes for leaders in the House and Senate to find the necessary votes to approve an agreement – especially in such a politically polarized environment.
The importance of the flanks played vividly last week in the House, when conservatives refused to go along with Boehner’s “Plan B” (the proposal that would have allowed taxes to go up on millionaires) because, as the speaker put it, “they were dealing with the perception that somebody might accuse them of raising taxes.”
Jonathan Ernst / Reuters
President Barack Obama returns from Christmas visit in Hawaii to the White House, Dec. 27, 2012.
Any final agreement will almost certainly have to involve both Democratic and Republican votes. But if either party’s base is incensed by Friday’s meeting at the White House, it would make mustering the political willpower to pass an agreement that much more difficult.
Leave a Comment:
Off the cliff time to get rid of all tax welfare cuts
Yep.....that will really pi$$ off a lot of middle class and poor voters who have been taking advantage of a tax cut designed specifically for them for the past 10 years.
Harley....thanks for playing you drunk.....we have some lovely parting gifts for you...
Predictions,
All tea bagger Taliban gone bye 2020
All GOP god for guns and rape ass holes gone,,,
Assult weapons and 30 round mags,,gone
Dems control both houses and the white house
Hillary 2016
Keep drinkin' Harley....you are delusional.
Trouble1954..you have something there, but not sure Harley is only on a drinkin' buzz...writes like he is on Obama weed - stoned is the only way Libs can come up with any arguments
What is with the Tea Party Taliban references....Al Qaeda is on the run....just ask Obama....
Benghazi was so typical of how this crew operates....crisis....run/hide from it.....deny.....send out a sacrificial lamb (Rice)....just like they did with Fast & Furious...when all else fails....blame George Bush....blame Boehner.....blame Romney.....blame somebody, but don't meet with any world leaders when they are in New York....NO, go on The View to be "eye candy".....go to Hawaii (again)....go play golf.....let Eric Stinkin' Holder show his confused face on TV.....he is.....
THE WORST PRESIDENT IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES
Just another bump in the road.
The first thing I would look for is if Harry Reid can remain awake and conscious through this all. Why would anyone think they would do the right thing? Either side- even though I tend to now lean more right thanks to Mr Obama and his divisiveness and attacks on the citizens of this country that work their butts off.
But lets see, Ernskin Bowles (spelling) - ignored, Super Committee failure, budget mystery for the past 4 + years? And you think they are going to make any serious progress? Nonsense
Yoma Ma you don't just lean right you are far radical right, always have been always will be. I love the way you radical far right tea people try to presume you're moderate. I can't blame you though, I wouldn't want to be associated with you tea people nuts either. If you want to pretend to be moderate you need to stop using the tea people talking points.
Party of NO......keep saying "NO".
Party that can't say NO......eat it.
Harley guy....eat a double dose.
Time to get cliff excited,,lol
There are NO IMMEDIATE spending cuts in this President's proposals; NONE
He is an idiot....this economy is going to fall FAST and HARD....watch how the unemployment numbers skyrocket as a result of his inept approach to the REAL problem.
We have a SPENDING problem; you cannot tax your way to fiscal relief......but this guy just does not get it.
Boehner should go to Hawaii and let Barry-Boy figure it out....him, Geithner, and Hillary....(who?)
She must have really hit her head hard....or she is on a 3 week wine/cheese bender....
Hillary had a convenient fall. No damage though, she fell on her head.
Geithner is just a punk. He doesn't know if he taking a sh!t or going to the movies.
And Obama? Is this guy over his head, or what? What a damn joke.
Anyone who has been paying attention know that Obama's plan doesn't reduce the deficit at all. He is planning on spending those extra revenues on new programs today and then promises spending cuts some time in the distant future.
Diets are never fun.....we love to consume (spend) more than is practical....but eventually, the doctor tells you that if you don't change what you are eating (spending)....you are going to die....
Folks....this country needs to go on a MAJOR SPENDING DIET....our financial clothes don't fit us any more.....and we have been wearing sweat pants every day because they have elastic in them...
But even they don't fit anymore.....anybody seen Jenny Craig ?
Tax cuts are welfare. End
With logic like that, you think that all the money you made is the governments. 100% of your paycheck belongs to the government and anything that you are allowed to keep is just generosity of the government and a form of welfare. Sounds a lot like Marxism to me.
Trouble
Your mom should have aborted you. Loser
Harley....the good news for you is....the moonshine is ready up in the woods, just go up and fill up your jug.
Whether you are a fan of NPR or FOX news, both sides are politicians and don't care who in the US gets screwed. They will play the game and will find a way for them both to pat each other o the back and say that they saved America. This could have been done a month ago, but both sides are playing games with our future. I voted for Obama, but all of this posturing and BS is wrong and will make it difficult for another African American to get elected. Fix this and get on with governing(I understand that is a word neither side knows anything about).
NPR = National Propaganda Radio
To bad we can't do away with the dis functional senate.
Predictions,
All tea bagger Taliban gone bye 2020
All GOP god for guns and rape ass holes gone,,,
Assult weapons and 30 round mags,,gone
Dems control both houses and the white house
Hillary 2016
Ps you righties will be extinct soon
Quit being an idiot. I know you are a typical hateful and bigoted liberal, but you should change so that society is better off.
Prediction....Harley marries his boyfriend in San Francisco.
Harley's pet name for husband is..."The big assault rifle"
This last summer a guy on a Harley pulled up beside me at the stoplight. He sat there revving his motor, looking at me, then he said to me, want to run your piece of crap against me, I said sure. The light turned green, needless to say it was like racing a bicycle. Harleys suck, upgrade to Yamaha or Suzuki.
Liberal logic....can any one follow it.
The owner of a local hardware store is passing out coupons for customer appreciation. These coupons range from 50% off to 90% of today's purchases. Many people are walking out of there saving $1,000 to $3,000 dollars on their purchase. Soon the owner of the largest construction firm in town shows up and wants a discount too. The own says, I can't offer you a discount that big. It would put me out of business. Instead you can have 10 to 20% off. The construction company takes advantage and saves $40,000. The owner is happy because business is booming and he made record profits that day. Everyone else is happy because they all saved money.
But there was a poor soul (liberal) who claims that it isn't fair. He got a 90% off coupon, but only saved $200 while the rich builder saved $40,000 and he demands the owner of the store do away with the savings for all.
Man that hardware store owner must really be screwing his customers the rest of the year, if he can give 50 to 90 percent off and still make record profits.
Typical republican logic......no one can follow it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The dems and repukes are both bad for ya,,,but the tea bagger a$$ holes need to used as down range target practice,,,,
As I heard a Republican say on TV, these tea party people are intent on collapsing our government and I'm afraid they just might. Of which I am confused, what would anyone gain by killing America??? There is no other place better, nor even close, could it be greed??? Simply wishing to finish what the Bush Babies started, The wholesale sell-off of America's Assets!!!
Quit lying. You never heard that. You might have misheard when it was said.
"We are intent on preventing the collapsing of our government because of liberal policies"
Why does the left always have to resort to fear, lies, and deceit to get anything passed?
Fish..you have a serious education gap that has left you unable to comprehend the difference between fantasy and reality.
Let me guess...you're one of those libs who believes we can just go on spending trillions of dollars we don't have simply by taxing the rich, right? I thought so. Go back to sleep, moron.
Fish: Did you drink from Harley's jug of moonshine too ?
That's what republicans do best PutAmericaFirst. Not only that but you people are always trying to accuse someone else of doing what you are doing. I guess lying to yourself makes you feel better.
Put yourself in a mental ward,
One word
Loooooooser
What Senator Reid is demanding on taxes is exactly the thing that Obama ran on, and was endorsed via his re-election by a clear majority of the voters. Raise taxes on annual incomes over $250K. Just agree to the clearly expressed will of the majority, stupid Republicans. As for spending cuts, I know this is more tricky, but I do not think that most Americans want to see major cuts in Social Security or Medicare. A little tweaking is more than enough to avert any alleged future problems in those programs. If you want to balance the budget fast, you need to cut the crap out of the budget of the so-called Defense Department.
Steve....That simply isn't accurate.....or not all of the facts. The GOP also ran on a platform and they won a majority of seats in the house. Why do you want to ignore the majority of Americans who put them in power as well?
WillieSmith, three million votes is not a narrow margin. BTW: Republicans did turn out in large numbers Willie, they just voted for President Obama.
PutAmericaFirst, the republicans actually lost seats in the house. The House Democrats also got more of the popular vote than the republicans. The platform the republicans ran on was rejected by the majority of Americans.
As a business owner I did well under Obama.
...and how many ghetto homes do you own and how many hookers work for you?
Harley....I bet you'd like to spend more time UNDER Obama.
Harley is considered a business owner all right.....but making moonshine does not employ a whole lot of people.
You might be surprised trouble1954. When you add all the drivers it takes to deliver the moonshine, all the security it takes to hide the stills and keep the feds away, and the labor it takes to actually make the moonshine, that's quit a labor force. Harley is considered one of what you republicans like to call a job creator. And you want to shut him down. Go figure.
Put
Your mother is sorry she never aborted your sorry ass boy,,,
I see that Feisty's government check deposited today and she got her computer out of the pawn shop and can start praising her saviours again. I also note that all of the other usual party worshipers and those who feel they are entitled without effort are on in force yet again.
Time to move to a different story the media is using to enrage the masses and hope that thoughtful and intelligent comments can be found for a change.
Steve r
That is correct,the gopmare sore losers,as they should be.lmao
They will keep losing too,,
Sndvl
Your mother and your wife both worked for me,,haha hehe hoho
And most of us just don't give a damn any more what they do or don't do. They are all useless political crap!
But I fired them as they where both too loose. Like mother like wife
Harley...get back under Obama.
And stop with the 'clear majority' garbage. It was a close divide amongst the American people. A little less than 2% is 'clearly' not overwhelming by any measure of rational thought.
Oh, wait a minute. There is the problem... rational thought.
DEMS have a hard time with margins. You house going up 1.00 is record gains for them and MSNBC.
If this is the Democratic plan and they will not budge, then buckle-up and enjoy the ride to the bottom.
Senate Democrat Plan
Sounds like you found a way to give more away and take more. Especially in the dividend area. WE old people who saved and invested are to be considered wealthy and the the money I use to support my handicapped son and his son on my retirement income is to be taken from me and given to illegals, Brood Moms, tax cheats, dope addicts, gang members and especially to members of Congress.
How STUPID can you be???
Ed, work on forming a coherent statement then get back to us.