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Subscribe to RSSUpdated 11:43 am ET President Barack Obama’s fiscal cliff negotiator, Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner, predicted on NBC’s Meet the Press Sunday that congressional Republicans will accept Obama’s plan to raise income tax rates and limit deductions on people making $200,000 and over. “I think we’re going to get there,” he told NBC’s David Gregory.
He said if Republican leaders have their own alternative ways to reduce federal deficits, they need to offer Obama their proposals.
Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner made the Sunday morning talk show rounds, saying "the only thing that stands in the way of a deal right now is if a group of Republican members decide they're going to block a deal." NBC's Mike Viqueira reports.
“We need to know what they’re prepared to do on (tax) rates and revenues and we need to know what they’re prepared to do on the spending side,” he said.
So far, Geithner said, they have not said “who should pay higher taxes.”
In contrast, Geithner said, Obama has been specific, for example, about how he’d shift more of the burden of paying for Medicare to affluent retirees: his fiscal year 2013 budget proposal would increase premiums and co-payments for higher-income Medicare beneficiaries, starting in 2017.
“If the Republicans don’t like those ideas and they want to do it differently (or) they want to go beyond that, then they have to tell us what makes sense for them and then we can take a look at it,” he said.
Geithner is leading the bargaining with GOP leaders on how to avoid the “fiscal cliff” –Washington jargon for the combination of tax increases and spending reductions which are scheduled to occur under current law at the end of the year and which the Congressional Budget Office has said would tip the economy into a recession.
Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner and Sens. Bob Corker and Claire McCaskill detail the ins and outs of the efforts to reach a deal to avert the fiscal cliff.
With 29 days left to reach an agreement on avoiding the fiscal cliff, neither GOP leaders nor the president seem to be taking steps toward an accord.
Two senators who were re-elected last month, Sen. Claire McCaskill, D- Mo., and Sen. Bob Corker, R- Tenn., also appeared on Meet the Press to comment on the fiscal cliff negotiations.
Corker said he supported “closing loopholes” which he called "a pro-growth way of getting more revenues from wealthy Americans." He predicted that ultimately “cooler heads will prevail” and the two sides will agree on a deal.
Corker said that in the fiscal cliff bargaining Obama had not yet proposed additional curbs on Medicare and other entitlement spending and he predicted “you’re not going to have a deal until that happens.”
McCaskill said if current tax rates expire at year end, then “we would come back in January first thing and pass a tax cut” along the lines of Obama’s proposal. “Are the Republicans going to vote ‘no’ on that?” she asked incredulously.
On Medicare, McCaskill said she would support “more aggressive means testing from higher co-pays from those people who can afford it.” In his Fiscal Year 2013 budget blueprint Obama proposed higher premiums and co-payments for higher-income Medicare recipients, cutting $28 billion in federal spending over ten years.
Americans for Tax Reform founder Grover Norquist discusses remarks made by Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner on Meet the Press.
But liberal Democrats have opposed that idea, saying it could erode support for Medicare among upper-income people, leading them to opt out of the program. “This will end Medicare as we know it,” said Rep. Allyson Schwartz, D- Pa., last spring when Republicans adopted Obama’s higher premium and co-pays idea as part of the negotiations over how to offset the cost of cutting the Social Security payroll tax.
Obama’s initial fiscal cliff bargaining position has been that income tax rates and tax preferences enacted since 2001 should remain in effect for single earners making less than $200,000 a year and for married couples filing joint return who make less than $250,000.
In a statement Sunday, House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi urged House Speaker John Boehner to bring to the floor a bill already passed by the Senate to continue current income tax rates for people making less than $200,000.
She said if Boehner "refuses to schedule this widely-supported bill for a vote, Democrats will introduce a discharge petition to automatically bring to the floor the Senate-passed middle class tax cuts." A discharge petition is procedure by which a bill may be forced out of a committee and onto the House floor for a vote. The Democrats would need to get 218 members of the House to sign a discharge petition in order for this procedure to succeed.
Republican leaders oppose any tax increase, although they would agree to a redesign of the income tax system that could raise more revenues for the federal government by ending or curtailing some deductions and other tax breaks.
The GOP leaders also want some plan for reductions in spending on Medicare and other entitlements.
The fiscal cliff refers to:
- The expiration at year end of tax reductions enacted in 2001, 2003, 2009, and 2010.
- A 27 percent cut in Medicare’s payment rates for doctors’ services.
- A ten percent cut in defense spending and an 8 percent cut in nondefense spending -- cuts mandated by the Budget Control Act which Obama signed into law in 2010 as a part of a deal with Republicans to get them to agree to raise the federal government’s borrowing limit.
- The end of emergency unemployment benefits.
- The end of a temporary reduction of 2 percentage points in the Social Security payroll tax which was in effect this year and in 2011.
In addition the Affordable Care Act will impose, starting in January, a new 3.8 percent Medicare payroll tax on income above $200,000 and will expand the tax to cover investment income as well as wage and salary income.
About two-thirds of the fiscal cliff comes from the impending tax increases scheduled to take effect at the beginning of 2013 under current law.
According to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, "Taxes would rise by more than $500 billion in 2013—an average of almost $3,500 per household—as almost every tax cut enacted since 2001 would expire."
A report issued in October by the Center found that almost 90 percent of Americans would see their taxes rise unless Congress and the president agree to change current law. "For most households, the two biggest increases would be the expiration of the temporary cut in Social Security taxes and the expiration of the 2001/2003 tax cuts," the report said.
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Isn't a " republican leader with an idea an oxymoron. Fox and those idoits have to wait for their OWNERS to tell them what to say. Sad, very,very sad.
There are a couple left with good ideas, albeit mixed with some very bad ones. Ron Paul got a few things right about immigration, education, and healthcare (he supports a single payer system, ust look it up), but he believes in isolationism and completely wiping out pp and the epa, which is not even fathomable (though the EPA does need some reining in).
Wayne, do you have anything of value to say?
The Republicans are chomping at the bit to slice up so called "entitlements". As Reagan put it, Social Security doesn't add one cent to the deficit. There are not enough loopholes in the tax code to produce the kind of revenue needed. Notice how the Republicans ignore the 600 billion in "savings" from medicare. They want those programs on a path to being eliminated. Cutting cost such as medical fees and negotialing drug costs won't produce the end result they want. Just look at Ryan's plan to see what they want. Also notice how the Republicans won't agree to the tax on the 2%. They still have their "pledge" in effect, and they simply won't go against Grover. Does anyone realize that the tax only goes toward every dollar OVER $250,000? We will go over the so called "cliff", and the tax will be enacted on the 2%.
cajundave
Just how much income is needed? We are spending about 900 Billion more than we did in 2008. WHY? The Great Recession ended in Jun. 2009. Why do we need 1+ Trillion deficits?
Cajundave, meet another cajun.
Does a weathy person really need social security? Does Warren Buffet need medicare? With people living much longer, could we raise the retirement age to 67? Everyone pays into to social security at the same percentage up to a certain dolloar amount. Why not raise that dollor amount?
The average person takes out twice as much in medicare as they pay in. Do you think that might be a problem in the near future?
Reagan was right, but since then, we haven't raised rates and soon it will add trillions to our deficits.
Put, I hate to remind you of this, but Reaganomics did cause a massive recession. Too much top-down, supply-side only economics was not his most brilliant hallmark.
Why do you think it was "Reaganomics"? The current recession was due to a number factors. Most of them had nothing to do with supply side economics. There was just as much "big government" involvement in the problems as there was supply side. None of this would have happened if Fannie and Freddie hadn't lowered their standards so much. They took away all the risk.
Put, I'm referring to the months directly after Reagan left office, before much of any legislation had passed. I know this last one was a massive bipartisan blunder pandering to big business and letting Fannie and Freddie get too arrogant. The student loan bubble is gonna hurt so much...
Grover, Grover, Grover, along with your control issues, come out of the closet will ya.
I was wondering about Grover. He said that Romney lost because he is a poopie head. Seemed a little strange. But I would support Grover's right to marry another man if that's what he wanted to do.
i say let the fiscal cliff happen. Automatic cuts kick in on everyone. Done deal. If I'm gonna go down we might as well all bite the bullet at the same time. That's what I call shared responsibility.
Hank
Control you anger management issues!
From Business Insider, quoting Buffett's interview with CNN:
"If we go past January 1st, I don't now if it will be January 10th, or February 1st, but we're not going to permanently cripple ourselves because 535 people can't get along.
But he also has faith that the economy will stand strong no matter what happens:
"We had Hurricane Sandy which disrupted the economy for a period, we had Katrina many years ago, we have things that will disrupt the economy, I mean 9/11 was an extraordinary case but we have a very resilient economy. We've had one for hundreds of years and the fact that they can't get along for a month of January is not something that's going to torpedo the economy."
Now show me where he 'welcomed' the fiscal cliff, as you stated.
Still not true. Even if you don't seem to know how to reply to a post.
Medicare
As to cuts in Medicare the article state the fc would result in a slash of 27 % cut of payments to doctors .
This mean the payout schedule would be reduced . This mean with the payout schedule being reduced that any senior can expect , the doctors who are receiving this lower payout rate is either eliminate Medicare pts or threat like clinic rats . Why would the doctors eliminate the Medicare pts ? Well , the major reason is that Doctor who have currently been earning more from those pts who are working , and have private insurance vs Medicare third world insurance . Those firms or companies giving insurance to their employees now are benefiting from superior care from doctors who are paid for actual medical treatments , which are acceptable medical treatment for certain condition that Medicare disapproves of by criteria such as over-usage according to their politician standards not medical standard or the politicians of the HHS who is directly under Obama calling standard medicial treatments that would be paid for by private insuance , they the spinning Politicians call evaluation of Needed Medical Treatments not necessary . A good example of this is in the none treatment of Fibromyalgia Pts such as myself in calling medical treatments for the pain of FMS as not necessary . So nerve blocks which is a more expensive way of dealing with pain are not allowed by Medicare under Obama , but not George Bush , or Clinton . What is prescribed instead of pill pushing as it is cheap compared to allowing the pt Blocks . What the medical effect of long term pill pushing for pain medications is worse diseases and side effect so in effect Obama decision of third world medication is already killing seniors. To put this clearly Obama role now is scapegoat the elderly and disabled who need to get medical help or die . Yes the will get pain pill from their doctors and the doctors get a office visit paid for my Medicare and they hand out pain pill , while the private ins . pays for the right treatments without side effect such as pain blocks , I mentioned above . Now the current doctors say to Medicare pts if you want the treatments , you have to pay for them , as if you or the Medicare elderly , had no insurance to pay for medical treatments which Obama and his SECY HHS made a fact .
Now if understand that all the doctors do if Medicare reduces a pay schedule or disallows legit medical treatments by telling pts that need brain scans when they need this that these pts should take pain pills for the headache ., or if the have a treatment for headaches this will be call not necessary by the Murderer Obama and his Hitler Party . Obama family will be treated for life at Walter Reed or any Government GI VA hospital and all treatment given to these new Hitlers who are killing seniors.
So, if we go off the FC maybe seniors will be seen once all the private pts are seen and ALL THE SENIORS WHO NOW AND WILL BE PAYING OUT OF POCKET AS IF THEY HAD NO MEDICAL INSURANCE . This is being done now , where pts , want medial treatment , and are wealthy , or so sick that they can not say no to paying for proper medical treatment now even if it uses up their saving , has already made the USA into those who are extremely rich and can afford to pay for medical treatment as private payments , and those who are going to be given pills and told to go commit suicidewith pillls that will give them heart attacks rather than pain treatments such as pain shots to effected areas . One such example of this is the pain pill darvocet finally taken off the market because it gives ptsheart problems . This is a new form sodomization by Obama With a 27% decrease in payments per such things as office visits for Medicare , there will come into existance in some doctors offices flex hours so that Medicare pts will be told they are fill in pts and will have to go to the doctors office the whole day to be seen with priority given to private insurance holders . This will not be true of good doctors who will just tell pts they can not afford to accept Medicare as payment for anything , and they will have to pay as private pts to see these doctors .
Here are answers to the fiscal cliff . Eliminate all tax deductions for muni bonds . This one deduction will probable generate almost a half a trillion or more a year in deductions . Since the US doest have money why are we paying out at least 1/2 a trillion in foreign aid when we are treating senior like a third world country . Don't the Am people come before foreign nationals and foreign countries . As to the Defense department aka in the past known as the War Department , we do not need troops in Korea as Korea is capable of defending themselves . The same thing is true of all the troops with exception to Nato troops in Europe . All we need in Europe is maybe 2 Division and of course Marines in the Embassies and standby division of Marines . Across the World we have proven to the rest of the world that we do not know how to fight a war or how to win a war . We should look at the Boot s on the ground thing as total anti productive of winning anything . We actually do not even need Special Forces, not because I don't believe this but because of the political tying of their hands to win a war . This is a policy that started in Korea , continued in Vietnam , and is certainly true of the last two wars . They have no end wars because they want no end war in Washington because it is one of the business we are in -war . Then we are part of the UN who objective mainly is to have a bartering system of nations with no war assets to align themselves with nations who have war asset and know how to use them or will use these asset to win a war - which is not the United States . So there is no point in supporting an organization that support the biggest demonnation in the room . The final fact is when all of these bad politicans make spin in the USA , the same tricks do not work on the Greeks who rioted in the streets threw hand made bombs at their own paid soldiers , and got a solving of the their finanical situation of great debt by the European Union . This was to postpone payment on their debt for 30 of any interest , and second to reduce the interest rate after 30 years to 2 % thereafter . The real solution is in the Am people rioting like the Greeks and then some of the obvious proposals I have given above would be implemented . Here is another good one , eliminate the post office , but regulate the rate the UPS and Fedex can charge and give the license to deliver the mail . Maybe , they will deliver mail once a week ? The point is we have to treat our citizen equally and not to abuse the power by expanding government for power and not need . The Department of Education is not supposed to supplement the salaries of local school districts teachers as Obama has done . Instead , the States are supposed to do this .So , many local teacher will lose their jobs with funding coming from Washington. The Horizon oil spill is where all kinds of money is going to USA government when in fact a large portion of it should be set up in a trust fund for illnesses such as cancers created by the Spill which will the long term effects of this . This is especially true of Obama who actually approved the dumping of dispersant's of certain material known to be poison and of which the EPA indicated to Obama was poison to congealthe spilt oil. Ask you local spin Washington man where is the fund for future cases of canceer and you will get no sense answer or no answer at all. We can not ever solve the fiscal cliff situation as it is meant to scapegoat people who had no part in dishonest practices by politicians and large banks so as to crate the crisis they want to create . The HItler need a scapegoat for murdering their own people as well as all other people they intent to murder for the sake of one organization . So we have two Hitler organization in the USA who intent is to create crisis to control and gain powerr over the people .
So the fiscal crisis will never be over if the tricks of scapegoating means something . And the blame finger of these two Nazi groups have to be at someone or something such as the Medicare contract which they use the word , entitlement . I suggest you go to Medicareadvocy.gov to see the lawsuits filed against HHS and Obama Hitler , and the tactics used . Factually , you know one if you read the original Obamacare debate . Here it is . They deliberately made Obamacare law some 6000 or more pages so all of the Obama Hitler party that voted for it can claim in the future they did not know what was in the law they passed . This was a trick and is still a trick used by HHS in the lawsuits against the SEC'Y of HHS . E.g the Medicare reg as to what get paid and what does not is over 10,000 pages and has contradictions in wording and meanings. All this is a trick so Obama or his HHS can do whatever they want with its payment of legit medical claims . They will in the future calling cancers a treatable disease by changing ones diet or exercise routine .
Medicare is forced on insurance to seniors who live long enough to collect Social Security . There is case law and maybe statute law , that does not allow any senior to be self health insured and receive Medicare . So , in fact the case law you might still be able to read on the site I stated before will show you that if anyone receiving Social Security and is a Senior , has to take Medicare as their primary insurance , and not offer up to any doctor or medical institution any other primary for if they do , these senor people who indicate some other primary insurer , will if found out , lose all their social security benefits or fica benefit they paid for . So seniors are forced to take Medicare and can not provide for their senior plan through an employer , through a union , or through a lodge ,- the latter was the subject case law suit sited on this law.
As to solving the fiscal cliff , the point is this all is what the Hitlers wanted . They , the two parties created it , and they will look like they have cured it a bit , but all of this is a trick by evil men , who want power to the exclusion of the effects of all of their past actions . So to solve the fiscal cliff means not getting involved in wars we can't win because they were meant to be wars we would not win . Pakistan , is the key , to never having terrorist bother us again. Terrorism was a industry in Pakistan and in Afghanistan , just as war is an industry in the United States for war sake , and making of money from war . Iraq at best should have been over when their army collapsed and their leaders were killed or put in prison . Iraq is not the United States of Iraq and in fact made deals for oil with other countries other than the US who has a long standing agreement for oil with the Sauds . The point of abuse of the Am people for the power and wealthy elite is what the United States is all about . If you think I am proud to be an American just as MichelleObama indicated as part of the abused , I am not . When Michelle Obama said she was not proud to be an American until she could get by abuse of her husband position power and then and only then as part of the benefits of abusive power she then became proud to be an American . Are they kidding ?
I am tired of writing , and remember I don't get paid for this . I am spinning for no one , except for G-d .*I wish an eye for eye and tooth for a tooth for all of this , and if you want to be a victim I am wasting my time
Chuck:
I rather use market based solution.
Let us import 25000 Latino doctor, 10000 black doctors and 25000 Asian doctors. If we cannot import create a system where we can educate and create doctors by collaborating with India, Russia, Brazil South Africa, Turkey and create more doctors. Same things need to apply to nurses.
Those countries can create doctors at $50000/doctor. And those doctors have prov-en to be euqal to our doctor when they are accredited by going through our tests and certification.
IF we reduce cost of making doctors, there will be more doctors, more competition and every one will get care at reasonable prices. Same principle can be applied to nurses. It has worked very well in Programming and tech industries. Actually it has created more business collaboration with foreing coutries while helping them and helping ourselves.
We can expand it in other areas. If we do not do. China is doing it already.
The doctors are not the expensive part of the equation, let me tell you. Medical equipment is massively overpriced (I'd know, I built my own MRI for less than 1/2 the current market projected cost, and it seems to be just as functional). Hospital admin make off better than some doctors. Look into that one.
Lets just go over this cliff , the GOP will get the blame. That will hurt them in 2014. I don't even care anymore.
You need the opposition for the move "forward" more than they need you. Your entire persona seems to be about raising your level of contempt for the opposition. That "revenge" policy won't move you anywhere if you don’t look for common ground and the only common ground for most Americans outside Washington has to do with implementing a surplus budget, not just a balanced budget of $1 trillion per year of added debt (if one can even call that balanced). So get off your high horse if you want to move “F-O-R-W-A-R-D” or get out of the kitchen. There is no longer a place for your contempt. The opposition, which is almost 50%, loves this country just as much as you do.
Hey, jerk off! pay your own taxes and get off of the demonrat VIP IRS list! no demonrat pays taxes, they just talk about it, and want others to pay.
Taxes are immoral, they are just redistribution, nothing more, we are soooooo far under water , NO tax increase will pay for nothing, just steal from those who earned it. WE will all be next, this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Buff there is NOTHING wrong with These United State that can't be fixed by what is RIGHT with These United States!
Obama and the gang of thieves is trying to corner the Republicans into making a deal that will not only raise taxes on the wealthy but also give him control of raising the debt limit without congressional approval. As an Independent who has little or no need for government I believe the best course for the country is to Thelma and Louise the fiscal cliff.... Obama knows there is no possible way to pay off this debt and he has no intention of actually trying too. When he attacks the 401k deduction after the new year it will force everyone to pull their investments out of the stock market and effectually trashing the capitalist society he hates. The joke will be if China continues to lend... how low our credit rating will fall... and will we end up in a world war in order to correct the coming economic depression. Remember, it was only World War II that brought us out of the great depression not any policy or tax increases that FDR made!
I dont think that congress COULD give give Obama control over the "debt limit" EVEN if they wanted to..I think that under the constitution, it is THEIR responcibility to do so..
Obama and his thugs are coming after your 401K next. Oh yes. The want to commandeer, by force, your retirement so that they "can better manage it" for you. You trust them with your money, right?
They may be able to get some of my SSI or all of it but the rest got moved offshore so I don't care.
If they get my SSI I'm gone anyway so my future is chosen, I'm just waiting when and if I leave.
Lamo
You and the truth, strangers, never to meet. Just hate, hate, hate. You are neither smart or original. You and door stops have so much in common. I think those pesky door stops are a tick smarter. Not a surprise.
@setter
Don't let the door hit you on the way out. You won't be missed. We're trying to thin the herd of ignorant Cons. If we ever find a smart one we'll call you. Oh, I forgot, you'll be gone. Oh well, all's well that ends well.
He's been threatening to leave the country for at least a year that I know of.
Wish he would do it already and go somewhere that has no internet.
Middle class Americans who vote Republican are nothing more than "Big House" laggards who take food out of the mouths of their Children and give it to shyster, snake-oil salesmen like Grover Norquist and the Koch Brothers... Shame, shame, shame... Share the wealth, tax the rich, pay down the debt...
Did your parents have any children that lived?????
Do you have a 401k? Watch it closely next year.You have bought into the dialogue that this will only effect the wealthy. We are all going to suffer and as your money goes to pay for those unwilling to work who expect to be taken care of your bleeding heart will turn!
Boy are you ignorant. You seem to think that if someone has earned something they have taken it from someone who hasn't earned it. I think you had better start asking questions like where are all the jobs that Obama's supposed job creation Trillions created. Now his budget proposal asks for more money. How does this solve the budget crises. Ignorance flows from the Libs like a river.
Well I would AGREE with taxing the wealthy more IF the government used that money to pay down the Debt..BUT..are you going to sit there and try to tell me that thats what they would do with the extra money??? LMAO
one suggestion.....geithner!!!..pay your taxes...other than that, let's jump off the effin' fiscal cliff......what's the matter libbies???...obama led you here and now you can show how much you really love the dear leader......
Liberals are just ignorant. They just keep saying tax the rich more and things will be fine. The truth is if they took every penny the rich made ( the top 2% that pay over 50% of the taxes) it wouldn't make a dent in the deficit. The problem is we are spending way more money than we are getting in taxes. It is the Liberals thinking the government should be taking money from those that earn it and give to those that don't. They give money to ilegal aliens, deadbeats that don't want to do their fair share, and others who could work but don't want to for schooling, welfare, social security and many other entitlements. This is just like the Soviet Union. Take from the producers to give to those that don't. Liberals are nothing more than Communists hiding behind trumped up issues.
Jim, don't be so highly partisan, it makes you look dumber than you are. And I heed you please remember the quote "behind every great fortune lies a great crime." The rich corporations nowadays do not have half the honor they had 40 years ago. They make their money betting on investment failures and delivering half-products to screw the consumer into buying a marginally better product than when last they bought it. Take the iphone 5 for example.
Patrick 93:
I'll agree that the corporations of today dont have HALF the honor they did 40 years ago..AND you can say the same thing about the politicians..Used to be, no matter what the differences were between Democrats and Republicans, they always found a way to atleast TRY and make America a stronger nation..As you know thats NOT the case now days..Washington is nothing more than a shark tank, and we the people are the minnows
But Patrick, is it Apple's fault that people pay so much for their crappy Chinese-made products or is the people who actually give them their money at fault? They're not "stealing" those people's money, the people are handing it over willingly even though there are alternative products out there that do the exact same thing or better. I would say that this is just a clear failure of our educational system, but even in countries where the education system is superior to ours, they still pay ridiculous amounts of money for bits of plastic and metal.
Patrick.....corporate culture used to INCLUDE the desire to have their employees move ahead with them and do well, there was a climate of shared success that doesnt seem to exist anymore.
Julia:
Those days and time are gone with manual typewriter and operated assisted phone.
We are entrepreneurial society and we have to move to structure, plan,educate to new paradigm. There will not be good old days of lifetime employment and company town
Anilof, the people's sense of entitlement and elitism is the main issue at hand, but it spread faster than almost any cancer I could compare it to. Now the corporations and politicians have it, and it is eating this country alive.
I think it would be in the republican's best interest to give Obama everything he wants because you know that if they don't, it's gonna make it hard for them to win anything in four years. It appears that the 99% have finally gotten smarter about their votes at election time.
Naw, sorry sunshine you are wrong.
When we go over the cliff the dems won't be able to bus in the thousand voters to load the ballot box. The republicans will go even if they have to walk.
Have the 99% gotten smarter at election time or dumber? It's actually hard to tell. Could go either way.
It's a matter of perspective. Which evil do you really support? Does anyone actually know the mantras of either party now? They've switched poles over the last 20 years.
The corporate bosses are the ones who're using the 401 K to rip off the hourly workers... Everytime the stock market crash, the 401's tank... The average employee have about $18.000 in their 401 K's... The aveage retiree retire with about $80.000 in their 401 K's... $80.000 will last about 5 years...
John
Wow, am I glad I don't have your union ideals, I would be as broke as you.
I took my own approach, most of it now safely offshore and I don't worry about the cliff. The only worry at present is do I need to leave and when?, I am responsible, I covered my own a^^.
Why don't we just go over the cliff?
Obama owns the economy, the democrats own the economy, the republicans are going to get blamed anyway, the democrats don't have a clue how to put it back together, the cliff is looking pretty good.
Maybe someone already noticed it but what happened to the 250 thousand number floated out there for the last few yrs. Now they lower it to 200 thousand or more also you already have people in high places selling their stock to avoid the high taxes next yr. So i hope someone wasn't counting on that money next yr as part of the reform. Lmao the pc stuff and robin hood theory isn't going to work it never has we have to look at cutting back on spending. We don't have the same amount of people paying into a fund like we did in the 50's look around at fed,state and local governments along with many others here and aboard. What has brought them to there knees is over promising and not taking into account raising cost of health care and entitlements.
Also why do we think it is ok to keep raising the debt limit? think about it! All tax payers are signing a contact with banks that we will pay this back. we are the they people ! So why can't you walk into a bank and get your new home or keep your home from going under? It should be ok according to the same rules you ok'ed your elected official to do. shouldn't it? But It's not why because they look at your debt to income ratio and credit rating and say sorry the risk is to high, Or charge you a extremely high interest rate.
Now that last sentence make sense to most of us ok i get it I will be over extended if i do this loan or yea my credit sucks so i get you are going to charge me a high rate. Yet we say it is perfectly ok for people we really don't even know or see on a regular bases. To sign our name to a contract we can't even read and commit to people we don't even know.
Do you think the person or persons loaning us the money care nope because they know we will be squeezed for the payment when it comes due! Now ask yourself when did you see or even know your congress person or senate person was in town??? Or really when did they even try to inform you on what was going on? You don't you hear on the news in a few sec sound bite or maybe if your lucky at election time.
People I hope we are spending as much time bombarding our elected officials offices with emails and letters letting them know how we feel. As we do complaining on here or fighting if not we are preaching to ourselves.
dm, 250,000 is combined income and 200,000 is single person income. The rhetoric hasn't changed. You can read over the last 18 pages and see both in context.
Republicans need to adopt a new motto. One that perfectly suits what just about everyone in the Republican party does on a daily basis.
Bitch, Gripe, Piss and Moan.
Your a perfect example of a psychological attempt to misdirect the Dems parties own persona. You're textbook, since your party bitchs, gripes, pisses and moans and blames the Republicans. It's a childish persona that often carries over to adulthood when there is a lack of maturity in personal development. I know, the truth hurts!
I don't make anywhere near $200,000 thousand dollars a year but I still don't see how it's fair to place all the burden on these people. Why not increase everyone's taxes equally and match tax increases with spending cuts equally. I would being willing to pay a more in taxes if government cut spending significantly and had a real plan to balance the budget and eliminate our debt. Imagine how much we could help our veterans, seniors and needy if we didn't have to spend so much just on interest of our national debt.
Appraiser, if we 'take the plunge,' you will get what you want on both sides of the equation. Taxes go up for everybody and significant spending cuts take place because of the sequester legislation. A 10% cut in defense spending is not all that unrealistic ~ and an 8% cut for all other federal agencies is also manageable. We need to lift the cap on Social Security contributions from $110-thousand to $1-miliion, then begin a graduated reduction for each additional million in income. That will never happen because of the strong lobby millionaires have in Washington ~ ~ the legislators, themselves ~ ~ the vast majority are millionaires in their own right. Once the additional revenue establishes surety for SS, then the balance can be directed to underwrite Medicare and the premiums should be graduated on gross income, not AGI.
Jim:
I will prefer that system of goign to one million then all the other bull that is talked about.
It is simple, undeerstandable and effective.
I should add that projected Social Security costs be calculated annually and then the balance goes to Medicare. This will close one of the big "loopholes" not talked about by either Dems or Pubs ~ ~ funny money from raiding the SS surpluses annually. Since the practice began in the mid-1960, congress has pilfered over $2.6-TRILLION from SS. Both the principal and accrued interest are simply moved to the national debt each year. If SS is in trouble, congress doesn't have to look beyond their own building to find the reason.
Time to recall all the republicons soon
It is nice to point fingers and play the blame game BUT the solution is 3 fold
1. a tax code that is no longer then 1 page where EVERYBODY that makes ore then $20,000 pays some federal tax
2. cut waste in all depts
3. stop using the tax system to pander to voters
I agree with you. I think we should stop giving people refunds of $1000 for every kid they have. (do we really need to pay people to have kids?) I think if people need welfare, we should call it welfare and we should give it to them in some other than a once-a-year lump sum for filling out an extra form on their tax return (EITC). Most of those lump sums don't help people with their day-to-day expenses. And why should anyone get refunds of more than what they paid in?
I also think the formula for determining how much tax a senior on social security should pay on their social security benefits should be indexed for inflation. It hasn't change in the last decade (or more).
Lets jump off the fiscal cliff. Therefore everyone has to pay a increase in taxes. And then maybe will finally get entitlements under control when they are left with no alternative but to makes cuts.
You are proud to be shoot yourself in the foot?
All,taxes all,programs all must be on the tanle
There is no reason that we should confuse the politicians with putting EVERYTHING on the table. Why should the hardworking Americans put well-functioning programs on the table? Start with ending the tax cuts for the wealthy and cut in inefficient programs (like corporate welfare programs).