They should sit at the kids table. Once they grow up and learn their manners, than they sit at the adult table but till than.................

By the way if bobby jindal runs we need to see a birth certificate.

By all means, let them have a seat.

Or, better yet, let them go out and form their own party.

Either way, the divisions within the Republican Party, combined with the goals/ambitions/desires of the top 1%, ensure the GOP's downward spiral for the foreseeable future.

Then there's this:

Virginia Republican Gov. Bob McDonnell, speaking Nov. 7 on MSNBC, called Akin and Mourdock’s shortcomings “very disappointing,” saying, “I think that everybody knows that some of the comments that were made were wrong, and it cost us at the polls."

And yet Governor UltraSound doesn't seem to understand his own negative contribution to public perception of the GOP.

joe in albany Its not 2010 anymore. But if thats all you have to feel good you go for it joey. Back of the buss for you!

Noid and Sh!tty: Yeah!!

They should learn their place: the back of the bus.

Just like Barry told them in 2010.

Well, if that's where you want them...

After not working with the President the party of Hell No (republican/tea party) wants to sit at the table. To quote the speaker of the house "Hell no" Why should they?

Joe, Obama did not send them to the back of the bus, but the electorate did.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Pathetic.

"We don’t mind the Republicans joining us. They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back.”

Only thing missing is bus. Would be kind of hard stuffing them all into the back of a Suburban now don't ya think? Maybe he meant Air Force One.

Dear Republican Party:

You can't call yourself the party of increased freedoms for Americans when you want to legislate the most intimate decisions that families make. It defies credulity you want complete control of over families, but you want to divorce yourselves from reasonable legislation for corporations. You look foolish.

The problem you are having is this: you cannot see that HAVING views are different then CODIFYING those views for all Americans. You don't like abortion? Don't have one, don't cause one to happen. You don't like same sex marriage, well, marry the person that you love. You don't believe in contraceptives? Don't use them, and over populate the world.

You may NOT make those decisions for other Americans. Until you understand the difference, you are going to continue to erode support from rational Americans.

Romney and the Gov of New Jersey wish they were in the back of the republican bus, republicans have thrown them under the bus.

NewDay---a great statement of what the GOP conservatives don't seem to get. We respect their views--they are free to live their lives according to those views. They don't give anyone who disagrees with them the same respect. I would add that they are free to use every effort of persuasion to encourage others to adopt their views; just don't try to legislate it.

So you're saying fitting every Republican into a bus is more realistic than fitting every Republican into a SUV or an airplane? I have news for you...

When you try to fit everybody into one vehicle it is called a clown car, so I was wrong, republicans did not throw their candidate and the Gov of NJ under the bus, they threw them under the clown car!

Hey Repugs, stay out of my private life. What I do with my Social life is my business not yours. Until you finally (if ever) get the message that you have no control over what people do and think you will always be a Second Rate Party. And you will eventually go the way of the WIGS. And good ridance.

When will American media adopt English as their official language? Those are NOT social conservatives. Damn it, they are totalitarians. Come on, say it. TOTALITARIANS.

They are about eliminating personal choice. You will do as they say and that's that. You have watched as they tried to suppress the votes of people who will not submit to their will. You have watched as they have bombed clinics. You have watched as they have worked to reduce women to nothing more than incubators.

Let the Republican Party worry about this cancer. Our concern is keeping our rights unfettered by these totalitarians. Come on, say it. TOTALITARIANS.

Newday,

That was a perfect summation. For years the Republican mantra has been, "Get the government out of my life!" But increasingly they have been pushing their religious and social views on Americans, and now the coda to the preceding is: "But I'm going to tell you what to do with yours--and I'm going to enforce it through laws!" It has taken awhile, but the public is catching on. One more nail in the Republican coffin.

The top 21 GOP contenders for 2016:
Kelly Ayotte, Michele Bachmann, Jeb Bush, Chris Christie, Nikki Haley, Jon Huntsman, Bobby Jindal, Susana Martinez, Bob McDonnell, Rand Paul, Mike Pence, Rick Perry, Rob Portman, Marco Rubio, Paul Ryan, Brian Sandoval, Rick Santorum, John Thune, Scott Walker, John Kasich, Haley Barbour

They don't belong at anyone's "table" in politics. If a person wishes to be "socially conservative" that is well and fine. But the moment they try to impose their opinion on someone else, regardless of their party affiliation, that's a problem and I will never support a party that wants to limit another person in any way.

Every time Michele Bachmann rants about Sharia Law I just keep thinking, "lady if anyone makes the case for having a women's mouth tightly wrapped with scarves you sure do".

Almost every republican I spoke with over the last several months said something like they were not socially conservative but...and then whatever reason they were voting for Romney.

From my very limited viewpoint, I would say that most people do not want the gov't interfering in their personal lives. As many have said here, it is quite hypocritical to demand "smaller gov't" except when it comes to telling us what to do in our bedrooms.

Dennis, you forgot lovely Sarah.

It will be another crowded stage--maybe even more crowded than 2011-2012. And it will drag on and on and on, with one after another shooting themselves in the foot, until only Rubio and Palin and Rand are left.

Can't wait for Hillary to run against any one of them.

db akron I don't get how you think your comments are grown up.

Wow your picking me apart. Go ahead. You have done the same thing one time or another. You republican/tea party people have been saying this type of sh!t from the time the President has been elected. Why don't you say what you said to me to your republican/tea party buddies? Please answer the last question if you can.

...social conservatives are arguing that opposition to same-sex marriage and abortion rights, among other issues, are as intrinsic to the Republican Party’s identity as ever.

If so, the GOP will continue to lose national elections.

How clear does it have to be? If you don't believe in same-sex marriage, marry someone of the opposite sex. If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one.

But for the love of Pete, quit trying to tell the rest of us how to live our lives! As long as we are law-abiding, contributing members of society, stay OUT of our bedrooms. Stay OUT of our doctor's exam rooms. Let us practice OUR religion or no religion. Get your own house in order, right-wingers.

Live and let live. Or continue to die your slow death, you social conservative, sanctimonious hypocrites.

The Republican form of social conservatism is a religious belief. We have a Bill of Rights and Constitution that allow us to keep separate religion and government. When coupled with the position of small government the Repubs look radical on issues of choice, the basic freedom guaranteed to us by our founders.

Caesar, Obama did not stall in giving the gov of NJ lots of help and boat loads of federal dollars republicans feign such disdain for. The gov of NJ thank him and praised his response and for that he is now being portrayed as a villain by republican pundits and blamed for Romney's loss, however his approval rating has shot through the roof. Do you think republicans will take a clue from that?

I don't ever again want to hear a Republican voter speak the word "bipartisanship." Their party blocked or sabatoged bill after bill with their idiotic, obdurate and childish policy of relentless obstructionism; and they did so fully aware that they were prolonging the misery of millions of un- or under- employed Americans.

To hear words like "bipartisanship", "responsibility", or "maturity" from a Republican is very like hearing the words "love" or "fidelity" from a prostitute.

Social Conservatives don't 'deserve' a spot at the table, they need to earn it like the folks who are sitting at the table as I type this. Social conservatives lost the faith of the majority of voters. This is the basic disconnect between what they think the typical American should be, and reality. People don't want the government dictating what they do in their bedrooms, judging their personal decisions, or any other hot topic social issues they use to scare their base.

I for one will be glad to see this leg yanked out, as it's a blemish on what America stands for. The U.S. was never a 'Christian' nation. Read the writings of any number of founding fathers and that much is immediately obvious. We left Europe due to religious persecution. We don't need to revisit history. We've already learned those lessons. You also don't need to be religious to be moral, and you don't need to legislate your religion on others to feel better about yourself.

If they ever learn that lesson, we'll all be better off. Maybe then they come come back to the table.

It is an interesting dichotomy that a significant part of the GOP speaks out against larger government, claims government regulation is stiffling America, etc.; but immediately turns around and see no problem with legislating (see regulating) morality.

Said dichotomy makes me think of the story of King Solomon and the two women claiming the same baby. The obvious obvservation from said parable is that the real mother would rather give up her baby than see it split in half. However, the less obvious observation was that while the story implies that King Solomon was wise enough to know how to identify the real mother; government inacted through absolutes can result in abuse of the innocent. Legislating morality is like that - it is one thing to say that one person murdering another is wrong - there is clear and apparent harm. It is another thing entirely to tell a person that as a homosexual, you have no right to marry the person you love because I think that is wrong. How would their marriage harm you?

I absolutely support the rights of social conservatives to live their lives as they see fit. I just can't support them telling everyone else that they know better - even if my lifestyle is much like theirs (married, 2 kids, middle class, etc.) I'm not self centered and/or arrogant enough to think that my life choices are appropriate for everyone else.

Social conservatives do not deserve a place at the table. These are people of pure, unadulterated, hate. Hatred of anything that is different from there ego and ethnocentric view of themselves. If these folks had there way, we would still have Black only water fountains and restrooms. Mixed marriages would be outlawed and be punishable by death. Gays would be persecuted. Women would be subservient to men. Neo-Nazis and the views of their fellow social conservative evangelical brethren have no room at the table in legislating peoples lives.

Our country allows them to practice their views of hatred and exclusion, and yes, we must tolerate their hypocrisy, which also means living along side it, but we do not have to allow them a seat at the political table where they will write laws forcing their views onto the populace at large. What they fail to understand is if you don't like interracial or gay marriage, don't marry outside your race or someone of the same sex. If you dislike abortion, don't have one. But their personal disgust does not mean we are all bound to live by those same standards.

Let social conservative fanatics sup at the kiddie table in the corner. That is where they belong.

Thanks, Jack, though I think David is right. We use the wrong words to describe social conservatives. Theocratic Totalitarian is a far better descriptor of their views and intentions.

David Walker, I think you hit the nail on this. If someone wants to lead a socially conservative life, then so they can. It is when they put their beliefs on to someone else that there is an issue. As long as you are not hurting someone else, you should be able to live your life as you see fit. The Republicans do not seem to understand that most of us are fairly moderate people.

The Tea Party ought to put their money where their mouth is. They should form their own party and not partner with the GOP. Then, they will have no one to blame when they constantly lose elections. Either way they are still going to lose elections, they are literally a dying breed.

Well said NewDay. Believe what you believe, but don't try to dictate what others should believe. When republicans learn Americans don't want to be preached to by the GOP they will become a better party.

Well said FoxTrotsky. All republicans have is words, no action to back up those words though. Sad thing is a good percentage of Americans believe their crap.

This is the 21^st Century

From the article above:

But to social conservatives, the challenge going forward is not a question of moderating; they argue that to rip out their leg from under the GOP would be to cripple the party politically. Rather, they argue the question is whether the party is able to find a more articulate messenger of social concerns.

And here lies the quandary

To quote Bob Dylan, The Times They are a-Changin'.

Election after election, poll after poll, the young people are taking over this country slowly but surely, and they are shaping what American is going to be like from this point on.

The problem and disconnect that social conservative simply haven't accepted in the last 20 years, is that their social agenda is obsolete.

From the 1964 Dylan song:

The climactic lines of the final verse: ""The order is rapidly fadin'/ And the first one now/ Will later be last/ For the times they are a-changin'" have a Biblical ring, and several critics have connected them with lines in the Gospel of Mark, 10:31

Gay marriage is now a part of Americana. It is here to stay. Gay couples should have the same rights and tax legislation rights as all American's.

If you don't like gays, then don't become one.

Abortions have gone down over the past ten years, and that's a good thing. But I think the argument on the Freedom of Choice side is that the Government and some religions need to keep their creepy hands off of woman's body's, off of womans rights, and out of the bedroom.

If you're against abortion, then don't have one.

Period.

Perhaps the biggest denial coming from social conservatives, is that don't believe the United States of America is more progressive than they can accept it is.

With all the lies coming from the right-wing media, and religious doomsday charlatans over the last 20 years telling them otherwise, it's no wonder they think America is right-center.

But it isn't.

Yes America is changing. The problem with social conservatives is that they aren't.

Salud

"We have to get out of people's lives, get out of people's bedrooms, and we have to be a national party or else we are going to lose," outgoing Rep. Steve LaTourette, R-Ohio, said on CNN

Two things the Democrats should do:

1 - Kill this guy before his attitude catches on. I like Pubbies losing elections.

2 - Hire Anonymous to do election monitoring like they did Nov 6th.

http://truth-out.org/news/item/12845-anonymous-karl-rove-and-2012-election-fix

These two measures will ensure that Pubbies become permanently irrelevant.

To hear words like "bipartisanship", "responsibility", or "maturity" from a Republican is very like hearing the words "love" or "fidelity" from a prostitute.

AMEN, FoxTroskly, Amen (tsk, tsk)!! Well said!!

David Walker

When will American media adopt English as their official language? Those are NOT social conservatives. Damn it, they are totalitarians. Come on, say it. TOTALITARIANS.

As someone in the middle, I think the far right and far left are both Totalitarians. From what I've seen, extremists generally do not tolerate opposing viewpoints.

I hope the Republicans listen to the Christi's of the party and not people like Rush and Akin. From what I'm seeing, there is a decent amount of push-back against the social conservatives right now - hopefully it will continue. Of course, what matters is who they elect in the primaries.

I do think the far-right social conservatives do not understand how much the country has changed on the governments role in social issues. Not only is the country more liberal, even many social conservatives do not want the government to mandate morality.

I do think the far-right social conservatives do not understand how much the country has changed

The goal of a conservative is to hold the status-quo. At some point, they failed to do this and just constructed their own reality to cope.

Conservatism didn't lose in this election...it's the corruption of conservatism that led to losses in this election by the GOP. Actually...when Romney became the presidential nominee, I posted here that the Republicans had basically punted on this presidential election.

.

But in congressional races, especially GOP hope to retake the Senate...the GOP had high hopes to begin with, but MourDork and Toddler Akin raped themselves. End of story.

.

President Obama represented both liberalism and conservatism ... and won over many conservatives. End of story.

.

I want to see the GOP to regroup..in our 2-party system, we need to have a viable conservative party. I hope this second party is still the GOP, not some new party if the GOP flunks the test for some time to come.

President Obama will be giving the Good Old Pigs a Pardon for Thanksgiving, gobble, gobble, gobble just in the neck of time - Chop-Chop to the Tea Loonies !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dennis, at this point I would expect the 2016 GOP ticket to be Christie/Rubio.

This is based on Christie demonstrating that he is "willing to work with others" and Rubio because of the Hispanic vote. I feel that the GOP will make a stronger effort to capture more of the Hispanic vote than other minorities based on simple demographics and party growth potential.

Things going against them:

Gov. Cristie has been accused of "selling out to Islam" with his judicial appointment and "consorting with the enemy" in his embrace of President Obama and the efforts the feds have made after Sandy. (Note - some folks will see this "selling out" as proof he will work with others and not a negative.)

Sen. Rubio has praised Arizona's immigration policies. He opposed Justice Sotomayor's appointment to the SCOTUS. He opposes the DREAM Act with a path to citizenship. He is TEA Party. (Note - the fact that he is hispanic AND TEA Party may be the key reason why he would be selected. It would be an apeal to the far right plus a deomnstration that the GOP wishes to have a bigger tent.)

You all have to read past the GOP's comments - to what they are truly saying! Like Gov. statement that some of the comments that were made were wrong!?! Not that their Beliefs were wrong but that they actually said what they believe. It would have been fine if they hadn't been recorded saying those things.

So don't be fooled by the GOP - I think they have learned their lesson on speaking what they believe in public but watch out to what happens behind closed doors because they are not going to change what they believe and will continue to try and legislate their religion or morals on the rest of us.

Virginia Republican Gov. Bob McDonnell, speaking Nov. 7 on MSNBC, called Akin and Mourdock’s shortcomings “very disappointing,” saying, “I think that everybody knows that some of the comments that were made were wrong, and it cost us at the polls

The RWNJs are claiming that Romney lost because he wasn't conservative enough while ignoring the fact that his poll ratings were dropping like a rock while he was playing the role of "severely conservative Mitt" and that he only came out of his nose dive in the first debate after he shook his Etch A Sketch and suddenly became "Moderate Mitt." Thankfully, Romney didn't fool enough voters to get himself elected, but the RWNJs are fooling themselves if they think he lost because he wasn't conservative enough.

It's very simple of the republicains what back in office GET out of my life issues and look more Middle of the road for that. AS its is most people think the republicians are so far to the right they cant see the middle. For 2016 the replicains need a middle of the road socialy and more conserveative fiscally hispanic candidate. I hate to say this that the Old White guy in politics is dead...

that is america.

America found out that abortion or gay marriage issues do not pay the bills that are spread out on the kitchen table.

Economic prosperity does.

You can only get that kind of economic prosperity from the balanced approach the Democrats offer: the one where prosperity happens at BOTH sides of the corporate food chain.

Tomas ....

Yes America is changing. The problem with social conservatives is that they aren't.

Great post. As we all noticed in the last election, the entire GOP wanted to wander back to the 1950's. They have got to stop looking at the past with such tender love and stop looking at the future with such fear.

Fox ...

To hear words like "bipartisanship", "responsibility", or "maturity" from a Republican is very like hearing the words "love" or "fidelity" from a prostitute.

Made my morning and a wee bit of coffee hit my keyboard! Thanks! ;-)

You lost big. Not because of gifts, or Akin, or Mourdock, or misspeaking your ideas, or urban turnout, or hurricane Sandy, or Chris Christie. You lost because you let the extreme of your party dictate your positions and they were not the same as the American voting majority..

suck it, you guys started believing your own bulls'hit. Back of the bus.

"...social conservatives are arguing that opposition to same-sex marriage and abortion rights, among other issues, are as intrinsic to the Republican Party's identity as ever…Republican candidates didn't lose because of their pro-life positions ...

"We have to get out of people's lives, get out of people's bedrooms, and we have to be a national party or else we are going to lose," outgoing Rep. Steve LaTourette, R-Ohio, said on CNN following the
election."

I don't want to be "socially engineered" especially NOT by a political party that doesn't share my beliefs.

As long as Republicans believe in trying to shape people's religion and believe they are our judges, and as long as legislating a woman's womb is part of the Republican Party Platform, I can NOT vote for them!

If we were to vote for a pro-life or pro-social engineering Republican candidate, Republicans would SWEAR they have a mandate on running our lives.

Just say NO to social and religious engineering by Republicans!

Happy Thanksgiving To All, Gobble that Turkey up with Spirits !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Im sure 40 years ago you would have thought that of the blacks too given the mentallity.

OK, CA, I'll take a bite at your woulda, shoulda, mighta, sorta, coulda game. One of the reasons I left the extremely bigoted, racist, Romney Mormon church as a teenage because they were attempting to teach me that Blacks bore the mark of Cain and because of that, were not worthy of holding the priesthood or attaining the highest planetary space in heaven. While 99% of the congregation lapped up those bigoted teachings, it didn't settle to well with me. Fortunately, I was free to shuck those teachings. Sadly, for those 99%, they still believe it.

It is great fun watching different groups of Republicans clame they are this type Conserative or that type conserative. The explaination process exposes the problem. The Republican party is not conserative. The party held the White House for 20 of 28 years prior to President Obama and during that period they bankrupt the nation. They spent $14 trillion more dollars than they took in as taxes. I assume in some minds that qualifies as a conserative. I always thought that a conserative was frugal and lived within his means.

Why do the social conseratives think they are conserative? They preach Hatrid, Bigotary and Raceism. They are against abortion and medical care for women. I assume that makes them conserative. NO IT MAKES THEM LIERS.

Sorry I don't get this new conservative mentality.

I think there is a little social conservative in everybody, no one believes in every thing that the democratic party stands for either. There are democrats that are anti abortion, however, they do not force their moral objectives on others. I think the factions of the republican party, especially the really right wing nut jobs are the ones that win out and the republican party loses many Americans because of this. America does not like radicals and the far right are as radical as the far left. On one side we have fascism, and the other communism and America is somewhere in between. The republican party has to move to the middle if they wish to be successful. Not only with words but with actions. They must throw away that dumb pledge to Grover Norquist, work for the people not the very rich and large corporations. The democrats have done that with Obama, is he is a centrist and is pretty successful with the American people as we can see with the election.

TO: jim-1455434 who wrote:

"Thank you libbies for giving me a morning chuckle today ! You guys win a close election by 2% to 3% of the popular vote and you are FILLED with advice for the Republican Party !! LOL !!..."

All I ask is that Republicans DON'T change, and you'll eliminate yourselves while the Democrats take over.

Megan McCain wrote an article yesterday that was very telling. She talked about how she is fiscally conservative but was totally turned off by the Akins, etc., of the GOP. Said she cannot identify with a party that has a problem with gays, wants to legislate women's lives, and puts those less fortunate down.

She said if the party doesn't begin to grow with the times she will be forced to register as an Independent. I thought that was interesting coming from John McCain's daughter.

I think so many Republicans are looking for a realistic party - not the far right nonsense the current GOP has become.

In addition to the social conservative issues, there are also the science and factual issues. It really bothers me that a lot of the Republican politicians still believe that the earth is 6,000 years old, evolution is a myth, mankind can put all the greenhouse gases it wants into the atmosphere and they will do no harm, if we allow Exxon to drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Reserve somehow it will lower the price of gasoline, if we build the Keystone pipeline it will somehow lower the price of gasoline, cutting taxes and raising military spending will balance the budget, and so on. There is a real disconnect with science, economics, and math.

Rubio will not say that the world is older than 6,000 years (when pressed, he'll say "I don't know how old the earth is"). We cannot run a 21st century nation with 19th century visions of how things work.

Republicans like to say that they won "the white vote" and Bill O'Reilly says it is evidence that Romney won the "traditional" Americans. But subtract off the crazies who believe in those non-factual things (the crazies who believe in creationism, etc.) and Obama won the remainder of the white vote easily. The democrats win the smart people vote, and that grows with time.

The Republican Party has just enough nitwits like Jim-lotsnumbers, who don't know how to read or process information or think critically (much less logically), to ensure that they won't rise again.

Jim, did anyone ever tell you that you lost the election and the very reason you lost are the false statements that you make?

American Girl - The Democrats LOST 12 of 16 House seats in OHIO, and 13 of 18 in PA. Congratulations.

And I guess ole Mitt didn't try and "buy" any thing right? The debt under Obama went up because he had to pay for....two wars that were not funded and not started by him, TARP bailouts because of too big to fail banks being greedy under 8 years of Bush's policys of no regulation, giving unemployment for 99 weeks, medication reform that was not funded...and of course, the pres doesn't control money, congress does and they approved all this spending. Funny how you did not seem to have issues with no bid contracts in Iraq, paying for two wars while lowering taxes for the first time in OUR HISTORY, and on and on and on......

And don't even try and talk about scandals because Bush has plenty of them...remember ole scooter that went to prision? How about WMD that he knew were false yet pushed ahead to warrent another war...one that took away the majority of troops from Afganistan, how about 9/11 on his watch...now how many people died there??? You repubs are just too funny with how you view things.

It's just like male social conservatives in the repub party getting busted having sex with boys and men.

Off topic, but an issue that has been bugging me lately: the creeping over-dominance of one holiday--Christmas-- as stores market decorations and Christmas shopping earlier and earlier every year. Pretty soon we'll see Christmas decorations in the stores right after the Fourth of July!

Not everybody celebrates Christmas in America. Can we please give Halloween and Thanksgiving their due? Why do we need to ruin the Thanksgiving holidays of all those store clerks who have to go to work on Thursday night, before their turkey dinner has been digested? Is it really necessary to shop all night and all day on Black Friday, searching in vain for a parking space, fighting crowds and crazed bargain hunters?

Why do we need to squeeze the bulk of our annual consumer spending into the few short weeks between Thanksgiving and Christmas? That is not my idea of celebrating the birth of Christ.

End of rant.

Jim-

One thing is for sure, the guy who won the election in 2012 has inherited an even bigger mess than the guy who won the election in 2008 !

Still in denial I see.

Jimmy, President Obama was re-elected in a Landslide because his policies are making America better and the Republican policies are the ones that screwed it up.

A Landslide is 332 Electoral Votes to 206 Electoral Votes.

Try and get over it, Jimmy.

The first step to moving on is looking in the mirror and admitting one's faults.

And if that doesn't work, then save the Reynold's Heavy Duty foil from your Thanksgiving turkey.

Salud

I do hope TRUE conservatism rules the GOP party ...otherwise the GOP will be in more trouble with the young vibrant millennials growing up.

first...true conservatism means (1) pragmatism - what works not what's dogmatic; (2) traditional values of family and church, not old racial and religious prejudices; (3) change in order to conserve...not the party of NO to change; (4) natural law...not old unjust laws.

.

second...the young generation of millennials are growing up with diversity, having none of the old prejudices, being tolerant of differences...supporting gay marriage, support robust government. If the GOP doesn't adapt....the GOP will be in big trouble in the future...big ..big trouble

and yet here you are with your steorotypes and bigotry.

Having no tolerance for bigotry does not make one bigoted. Nice try though. Notice, I said you are free to be a racial bigot, but you are not free to legislate bigotry upon me.

Pretty soon we'll see Christmas decorations in the stores right after the Fourth of July!

Kaybee,

Hallmark stores already do!

BOYCOTT BLACK THURSDAY & FRIDAY!

Shop small business Saturday!

Obama was re-elected in a Landslide because his policies are making America better and the Republican policies are the ones that screwed it up.

i wouldnt call it a landslide. but if that makes you feel better about it. by the Americans also re-elected the House to stay Republican majority. So again I dont see the status quo being a mandate. But i do want to see some more movement from both sides come more towards the middle.

Having no tolerance for bigotry does not make one bigoted

never said it did.

Caesar, I think I play it pretty fairly and do not demonize, having said that it was Republicans stated goal to employ a Waterloo strategy in regards to this president and his agenda, they pledged allegiance to Norquist instead of recognizing the fact that it takes in increase in revenue to solve the nations economic woes. What difference does it makes that posters here blame them, the point is that the electorate holds them responsible and blames them, I think that is clear by process of the elections. Many republicans were swept in at the midterm by the promise of jobs, jobs, jobs, they failed to deliver, it was their promise, and the electorate will hold them to it, and if they can't show some real effort and results they will continue to be punished by the electorate. They claimed they would provide jobs and fix the economy democrats did not put those words in their mouths, that was their promise, and if it does not happen, they will suffer because after they won those seats they accomplished nothing, they went to an entirely different agenda of social issues and naming buildings after RR. They have the all time low of approval ratings so it it is not just people on FR and the administration that blames them, the electorate has weighed in. My point about the Gov of NJ is that his actions are in direct conflict with the Waterloo strategy republicans thought would work so well for them, they got shellacked on that and the gov of NJ approval ratings are sky high, so again I ask. Do you think republicans will take a clue from that?

jim-1455434

One thing is for sure, the guy who won the election in 2012 has inherited an even bigger mess than the guy who won the election in 2008 !

Maybe that's true in wingnut alternate reality Bizarro World. But back here in the real world, conditions have improved dramatically since the end of the disastrous Bush presidency. The stock market's value has doubled, jobs are being created rather than destroyed, the Iraq war has ended, and America has regained the respect in the world that it had lost because of Bush's "shoot first and aim later" cowboy diplomacy.

That "hopey changey" thing IS working out for us, thank you very much.

kaybeetoys - I agree. Christmas decorations go up earlier each and every year! Next thing you know they'll be putting them up in July!

What is the social conservative's political agenda? If it is to force their moral views on other Americans through legislation, then the Republican Party is only a two-legged stool and it will take all their time and effort to keep it balanced.

Caesar Augustus says: Shouldnt all sides be represented and have representation or is this still the democrat policy that FR posters continue to espouse of 'Join Us or Die'?

I have to wonder, sir, just how many people are posting under your handle! There have been occasions since the election- only a few, mind, but enough to catch my attention- when you've sounded almost reasonable; and on those occasions, I admit to having thought: "Hmmm, could be that a trip out to the woodshed did this one a power of good."

But, alas, it never lasts. You are obviously a pretty intelligent chap for your affiliation, so it strikes me as being pretty damned unlikely that you're just unable to see the hypocrisy- nay, the utter indecency- of excoriating the victorious Democrats for not wanting to take the counsel of those same extremists who, for upwards of thirty years, have called us every name in the book except "sweetheart" and have openly called for our mass extermination along Hitlerian lines? (Do NOT attempt to deny it, sir; it has happened and you have heard it for yourself.)

For you to now have the sheer audacity to come and say, "Shouldnt all sides be represented and have representation?" is an insult to the intelligence of every regular poster here regardless of party affiliation, and is ironically further proof of your party's total unfitness to govern: That you continue to criticize and insult the Left for the crimes that are being committed by your side proves your continuing immaturity, and your complete inability to learn from your mistakes.

"Republicans, we thee implore/ To go away and sin no more;

Or if that effort be too great/ to go away, at any rate."

-- with apologies to Alexander Pope

Smitty-4183671

joe in albany Its not 2010 anymore. But if thats all you have to feel good you go for it joey. Back of the buss for you!

Here, Here! Keep moving back Joe...don't block the aisle.

TO: shaak322 who wrote:

"What is the social conservative's political agenda? If it is to force their moral views on other Americans through legislation, then the Republican Party is only a two-legged stool and it will take all their time and effort to keep it balanced."

Powerful words!

Happy Thanksgiving!

Some crazy person who thinks he's Caesar Augustus wrote:

i wouldnt call it a landslide. but if that makes you feel better about it. by the Americans also re-elected the House to stay Republican majority.

Sorry, your majesty, but the Democrats won the popular vote for Congress, too. It wasn't the American people who put the Republicans in charge. The Republicans retained control only because of the gerrymandering they did in states they took over in the 2010 election. Had congressional districts been the same as they were in 2008, Nancy Pelosi would once again be Speaker of the House.

you know Forrest Im pretty sure the DNC re-evaluated itself after the loss to Bush in 04'. They didnt go extinct then. I think the GOP will re-evaluate itself as well and is doing it. We have promise of jobs from both sides and here we are Forrest. But you do demonize Forrest and if you think that the GOP should sit in the back like a lot of your buddies in here do, then im afraid the next two years will be like the last two years. Quite the mandate indeed. I keep saying eventually the DNC is going to have to start acting instead of just blaming and if you think the people of America are just going to accept it.

But back here in the real world, conditions have improved dramatically since the end of the disastrous Bush presidency. The stock market's value has doubled, jobs are being created rather than destroyed, the Iraq war has ended,

really? your biggest claim to fame is the stock market? jobs are not even meeting the incoming demand after the numbers have to be readjusted, unemployment after 4 years is still in the same ball park, Iraq ended because of Bush and the agreement with the Iraqi Gov, Housing is still in the tank. So bizarro world you may believe is reality and i wish all the stuff i mentioned wasnt the case but it is no matter how you polish it. BTW i think how Libya was initially handled by Obama (neglect the War Powers Act of 73') was pretty cowboy like to me.

There are simply not enough of the Millionaires and Billionaires" to fill the void !

No one ever said there was. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't pay their fair share. What gets me is nitwits like you who are definitely among the wealthy but who nonetheless act as though something was being take away from you!

The last I heard

Where--on Fox News?

What will the GOP argument be if we raise taxes on incomes above $250k, and then the deficit shrinks, more jobs are created, and the economic impact is clearly beneficial?

"We may be 100% wrong on economic issues, but we really, really hate gay people. Vote for us."

Among voters who went to graduate school (presumably a good measure of "smartness"), Obama won by a whopping 55% to 42%.

I would guess that among voters who think that going to graduate school is not a true measure of intelligence, and that gut-trusting common sense smarts that tell them the world is 6000 years old and the big bang theory is a lie from the pit of hell, that group Romney won by a big margin.

This is what I mean by a smart-dumb divide. We can also see it in conservative leaders like Michelle Bachman, Hermain Cain, Rick Perry, Jan Brewer, Sharron Angle, Sarah Palin, and so on - their one uniting feature is that they are really dumb.

THis Thanksgiving there is a fulll HOuse! SO we'lll do what with the Huckabeees of the world what we used to do with the children - we'lll put them at the children's table!!!!

A few words of prediction for the GOP for 2016: Marco Rubio may decide to run for President (otherwise why is he in Iowa ?) but he will never win the nomination. The FACT remains, that for 20% to 30% of the GOP, there is a color test that Rubio will never pass.

He might get nominated for VP, they can't control who the Presidential nominee chooses.

The evangelicals will never choose a woman or a Mormon, that takes out another group.

It's too bad that Hitler is not available, they'd like him.

I got timed out. So . . .

The last I heard, these tax increases on the wealthy may cover 10 days of annual deficits.

Where? On Fox News?

wait for your welfare check,

Not me. I work for a living. And pay taxes. And I don't complain about it.

don't come back and blame the Republicans when the national debt exceeds $21.6 trillion, and our country has had another financial downgrade !!

Right, and none of it had anything to do with Bush and his unfunded wars and his tax breaks at the worst possible time, or McConnell and the Republican efforts to limit Obama to one term and block all his initiatives--even those they had always promulgated themselves in years past. Nope, nothing at all.

Sounds like you're the one taking hits off the bong while drinking kool-aid.

Anyone who writes a post like the one at #1.53 does not care about the truth and/or is incapable of rational thought. All you want to do is complain. You're a mean-spirited, bitter person who adds nothing to any conversation on this Vine. I would hate to be you. Your comment about the deficit is a crutch to lean on while you spew vile obscenities. I don't think you give a damn about deficits. . . .

The last lines cracked me up. These people are so completely delusional they actually think Mike Huckabee makes a good candidate! The guy was revealed as a complete lunatic when he ran last time. Anyone who drags Chuck Norris around with them like a trained monkey is going nowhere. The guy is like Ted Nugent without the potty-mouth.

Some crazy lady wrote my paper this morning and basically said she prays Obama will follow the Republican social agenda. LOL! We elected him precisely because he isn't going to do that or anything close. Hers was the usual, "if we just let God run things, everything will be fine" nonsense. These people learned nothing from the last election. They are just hoping we have major economic difficulties which will allow them to come to power with their extremists beliefs. And that is still a real possibility.

noncoms,

Couldn't agree more with your #1.88 post.

Have a good Thanksgiving! I'm outta here.

If the Republicans keep giving the right wing their voice, the entire party will fit into a VW bus. What will it take for them to come to grips with the reality that Americans just don't like the kinds of people they are. Democrats are associated with caring about people; Republicans with money and their stuff.

I recently moved from registering GOP to Independent. Until the GOP actually represents "small government," I'm done with them. You cannot legislate morality nor is morality within the purview of the government to enforce. That is the largest, most intrusive type of government there is.

Every day, people do things I personally find distasteful or even immoral by my standards; however, the only morality I have to worry about is my own and that of my family. If others are "immoral," that is their choice, their freedom, and no government should infringe upon it. What the "social conservatives" are pushing so hard feels far too close to slipping into theocratic territory for me to continue to register with them.

Jim lotsanumbers,

As I mentioned in #1,91, I got timed out in #1.86, otherwise I would have caught my error--I always read back over my posts before finally sending them. It should have read as below:

What gets me is nitwits like you who are definitely NOT among the wealthy but who nonetheless act as though something was being take away from you!

That was the whole point of the sentence. Even a nitwit like you should have realized that.

And so you're a CPA, so what? I'm not impressed. I work on a regular basis with tax attorneys and CPAs who specialize in tax credits. There are smart ones among them, and there are those who are pretty dumb. You haven't yet shown that you're among the intelligent ones.

And now I am out of here.

Oh Jacka$$ from Portsmouth, I am so glad you found time to create an alibi for your "hoof-in-mouth" post ! Why, with your skills at "distorting reality", they could use your talents in the White House ... they still haven't come up with a decent answer for the Benghazi "blame it on something else" lies and edits !!

Again, ending with an attempted personal attack on me before "RETREATING" ... to lick your wounds !!

The Republicans lost the last two elections because they nominated mushy moderate wussies like Willard and McCrabby. Only true believers will lead them to the promised land,

Akin/Mourdoch 2016 all the way baby!

It cracks me up - all the Republicans sitting around trying to find a way to "put a fresh face" on their party so they don't lose the mid-term elections in 2014. This idea of changing the nation's perception of the GOP is frightening. What they are saying, in effect, is that they want to put on a false front so people will vote for them while maintaining the same seething, narrow-minded policies lurking beneath the surface. They want to keep their real and true adgenda hidden until after the election. It's whitewash.

Same old GOP story ... say whatever you have to in order to get elected, then do whatever the hell you please no matter who it injures or whos rights you trample. You are welcome to hold whatever views you please. No one is forcing you to be gay, have an abortion or wear a condom - you have rights and I respect them. But the MAJORITY of Americans have made it clear that they want you to stop trying to interfere with their rights. You need to respect us as well.

We don't want you to lie to us about the way you really feel regarding the issues or the policies you would try to make if elected. Just be honest. This is a Democracy. If the majority agrees with you then you will have the authority to create your version of the law of the land. But if you lose (as you did this time) because the majority of Americans do not hold the same views, then you need accept that you are in the minority and stop trying to push your views of morality onto us.

Forward ...

David has it right. Totalitarians are the antithesis of free will.

Fox -- Amazing they think we should trust their judgement after Bush. Especially since they've shown they haven't learned anything.

Jack -- Nice job of knocking em' down today!

jim #'s -- When, oh when, will you get past the fodder? You can't get past a table of contents it seems. BTW Jack proved you wrong time and time again today. Don't kid yourself.

"The more that you read, the more things you will know. The more that you learn, the more places you'll go."
- Dr. Seuss

Have a very Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

This Thanksgiving I will be praying to God that "No" the social conservatives do not get to sit at a seat of the God Owful Party! (GOP) It is rotten enough already. The last election tells us so!

Hey jp #1.68, are you talking about that War Criminal called "W" or the Dick.........Cheney ??????????

All in , California

I hope that was satire? No, sane person could believe what you wrote only extremists int he republican party and teabuggers!

Kelly Ayotte, Michele Bachmann, Jeb Bush, Chris Christie, Nikki Haley, Jon Huntsman, Bobby Jindal, Susana Martinez, Bob McDonnell, Rand Paul, Mike Pence, Rick Perry, Rob Portman, Marco Rubio, Paul Ryan, Brian Sandoval, Rick Santorum, John Thune, Scott Walker, John Kasich, Haley Barbour

I'll shorten that up for you by elliminating those that will make the so called "social conservatives" stay away like they stayed away from Romney due to his "not being a christian conservative".

Kelly Ayotte no way she is catholic and speaks French, Michele Bachmann, Jeb Bush no way he is moderate on immigration and is a BUSH , Chris Christie no way traitor and is obese, Nikki Haley no way she was born and raised as a Sikh. On September 6, 1996, she married Michael Haley in both a Methodist church ceremony and a Sikh gurdwara. Haley identifies herself today as a Christian,but attends both Sikh and Methodist services out of respect for her parents' culture, Jon Huntsman no way too liberal worked with Dems, Bobby Jindal no way Indian and catholic, Susana Martinez no way hispanic and catholic, Bob McDonnell no way catholic wanted to close gun show loophole and to restore voting rights of felons, Rand Paul maybe but a state's righter on pot and same sex marriage, Mike Pence maybe, Rick Perry no way proved he was a idiot in 2012 primaries, Rob Portman maybe but really close to Bushes, Marco Rubio maybe TEA party favorite but Hispanic and catholic, Paul Ryan maybe but bears Romney loss affiliation, Brian Sandoval slight maybe, from small no population state hispanic and catholic, Rick Santorum, John Thune maybe but small state population, Scott Walker maybe but might be in jail by primary time, John Kasich maybe but his time on FOX give the Dems plenty of film, Haley Barbour maybe but age and Barbour suggested that the Republican Party should take a more moderate approach to certain elements of its platform. He suggested barring corporations and unions from making direct campaign contributions, expressed satisfaction with Mitt Romney's moderate brand of Republicanism, and suggested that the party should soften its stance on illegal immigration and reach out to Latino voters.

So it's Michele Bachmann, Rand Paul, Mike Pence, Rob Portman, Marco Rubio, Paul Ryan, Rick Santorum, John Thune, Scott Walker, John Kasich, Haley Barbour. Many evangelicals don't consider catholics christians and even in this day and age won't vote for one. Then there is the whole thing that "is a Hispanic a American".

Sid Caesar sez:

your biggest claim to fame is the stock market?

After watching my 401K evaporate as Bush's bankster cronies made off like bandits, why yes, it was a BIG deal for me and a lot of other people.

jobs are not even meeting the incoming demand after the numbers have to be readjusted,

Oh, yes they are. The jobs added have exceeded the 150,000 necessary to break even for the last year. That's why the unemployment rate is going down, not because of a sinister government conspiracy to alter the numbers.

Iraq ended because of Bush and the agreement with the Iraqi Gov,

Then why was John McCain trying to keep it from ending after Obama became president? If McCain had been elected president by some unfortunate circumstance, the war would have continued.

Housing is still in the tank.

Actually, the houstng market is recovering even though you probably wish it weren't.

BTW i think how Libya was initially handled by Obama (neglect the War Powers Act of 73') was pretty cowboy like

There was nothing cowboy-like about cooperating with allies and liberating Libya from a bloody dictator. That's why Libyans respect the US, as they proved when they held mass protests of the killing of our ambassador by a small group of extremists.

newdayDAWNING...RETURNED #1.11

Could not have been stated better. They, can not legislate, morals or religion. Gov ultrasound McDonnell, will see his chickens come home to roost in the next election. His hypocrisy and attacks on women, will cost him at the polls

"There's a way to do that that is respectful and productive. There are things we'll always disagree on, but it doesn't mean we go to war over them or divide our country over them."

The question is not the difference of opinion, which is an essential part of any democracy, or even the way you state such opinion. The essential part is that we cannot force behavior on others.

According to the U.S. Census the U.S. minority population was at 38.5% in 2011. We know that most vote Democrat.

Out of the 63.4% white population, (not Hispanic) take out Democrats and other minorities like gay/lesbians etc, it is obvious the Republicans need to work extra hard from now on. All statistics keep growing against them.

@ceasar: every one of your comments is based off this template "call me a xyz? i'll call you a xyz too!" demonstrating that someone else is also guilty of something doesn't mean that you or your party don't have to take responsibility for what they're being accused of.

"Social conservatives say they deserve seat at table in retooled GOP"

Look who's feeling "entitled" now...

Thanks, GREATGRAN101: Happy Thanksgiving!

Caesar my stating the situation as it was and is, is not demonizing, nor is my poking fun at republicans like Bachmann. It seems you are not going to address my direct question to you about the Gov of NJ approval rating. HA, well I'll tell you what, if I was a republican up for election I would hug Obama in public, it seems to do wonders for your approval rating.

For me it's pretty simple. For the GOP to even get a second glance, they must TRULY be fiscally conservative yet be open to practical solutions. They must be INCLUSIVE without having the need to "target market" specific groups. They must be TOLERANT of others that are not like "them"... and the "them" demographic needs to disappear. Social conservatives can have a seat at the table, but don't EVEN THINK ABOUT forcing your values on others... learn to compromise.

Anyone think the "new" GOP is capable of the above?

Matthew-2771918 #1.48~~The repubs already tried that bigger tent thingy, with the know nothing woman Sara Palin, thinking she would get Hillarys' women votes. Didn't happen, women are not that stupid and neither are Hispanics. Republicans think they can exploit the ethnicity and/or gender and voters are stupid enough to fall for that sham. We the voters are much smarter than the gop gives us credit for. The gop has only one issue, HAG=Hatred, Abortion, Greed

until the Republican "party" and their nearsighted "leadership" shed the right-wing-nut-religion-oriented-southern-strategy wing of the "social conservatives" they will be LOSERS and will REMAIN SO! "They" are entitled to "their" social agenda (no matter how out of step with the mainstream electorate they may be). They just aren't entitled to SHOVE IT DOWN EVERYONE ELSE'S THROATS with the utter IMPUNITY they THINK they are "endowed" by because of their election (they do think, don't they). "THEY" aren't even in the MAJORITY. The TAIL will NOT wag thew DOG

There is a word in this statement that describes the GOP with out question; can you guess which one it is?

Republicans have always likened their party to a three-legged stool

It has nothing to do with having a third leg.

The group that really will make me run from the GOP again is the Tea Party..... They need to go FAR FAR AWAY.....

So why did the Democrats win the Presidency?

There are now 47 million families that get free food and cash aid, and they credit the Democrats for 'giving' them that largess. At $550 per month average, that's about $300 Billion per year in 'freebies'.

These families are typically also the ones that get an average of about $440 Billion per year in free health care (Medicaid - that figure comes from Obama's 2013 Budget projections).

That amounts to a total of about $740 Billion per year in 'free benefits' that these 47 million families get each year, which amounts to about 70% of the $1.1 Trillion Deficit.

These people have become dependent upon the government, so they naturally will continue to vote for the Democrats. A cynic might suggest that the Democrats are 'buying votes with taxpayer funds', but of course that would be considered 'heartless towards those in need', or even 'racist'.

In addition, the Democrats keep promising 'Amnesty' for the 11 million illegal immigrants in this country, so the 12 million Hispanics that vote will naturally want to vote overwhelmingly in favor of the Democrats who promise to let their friends and relatives stay here and be eligible to work (competing with legal American workers). Ironically, the Democrats don't actually want to 'pass' Amnesty, because it would remove a valuable campaign tactic that they use over and over.

Since Obama got about 62 million of the 120 million votes in this last election, but won by only about 3 million votes, this huge group of roughly 50 million that has become 'dependent' on the government will form a formidable voting block that will ensure the Democrats maintain power well into the future. So how many of the roughly 50 million families that have become dependent on the government voted for the Democrats for purely selfish reasons (Don't touch my benefits)? If only 3 million of the 50 million voted for continued 'free benefits' from the Democrats, that was enough to ensure a Democratic victory.

Ironically, even though these policies by the Democrats will drag down future economic growth and make everyone 'poorer' - witness the $5,000 (10%) drop in average family income over the last 4 years, this actually helps the Democrats win votes because it creates even more people that will become 'dependent on the government'.

All of this comes at a great cost (witness the $740 Billion per year spent on welfare and Medicaid above) and the huge cost to taxpayers of the massively growing Debt (which Obama's Budget projects to increase to $20.379 TRILLION within less than 4 years - even if he gets his 'tax increase on the wealthy'). The Debt was only $9.986 Trillion at the end of fiscal 2008. But the 50 million that get welfare and free medical care don't really care about that, because they know that 'someone else will have to pay for that' (those who actually pay income taxes).

And of course the Democrats will continue to 'play to their base' by claiming 'the rich don't pay their fair share', and the Republicans are 'heartless and racist' for calling for 'entitlement reform'.

We are well on our way to the ruin that Greece brought upon itself by promising benefits that we can't afford.

What's the REAL problem with the Debt?

I have just researched the problem with health care entitlements, and it is far worse than most people imagine. I used the President's own Budget (OMB) for 2013 as the basis for the basic information, and here are the results;

The projected Revenues for Medicare/Medicaid over the next 10 years are $2.823 Trillion.

The projected Costs for Medicare/Medicaid over the next 10 years are $11.134 Trillion.

That leaves a net Deficit in the Medicare/Medicaid programs of $8.311 Trillion, which is even greater than the total projected Federal Deficits of $6.684 Trillion over the next 10 years. In other words, if we did not have a Deficit from health care, we would have a budget SURPLUS of more than $1.6 Trillion over the next 10 years. These figures include the implementation of Obamacare.

Obviously, something needs to be done with this HUGE 'entitlement problem', but it's a shame that the media does not give us the information that we need to make intelligent choices. Here's the link to Obama's Budget to verify - See Table S-5

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/tables.pdf

My recommendation – Fully fund Medicare with increased payroll taxes of about $75 per month each for employers & employees, and for Medicaid, a combination of a small deductible ($10 per doctor visit) for Medicaid beneficiaries plus a National Sales Tax of about 3% (excluding food and medicine). These simple changes would fully fund these programs and lead to a Surplus instead of huge Deficits within 10 years.

Of course, we could save an estimated $4.7 Trillion over 10 years by cutting spending by only 10% each year (We have increased spending by 27% over 2008 levels). There are several ways that we could address the Debt problem – all we need is the political will.

I welcome any comments.

The next freaky Republican to be on the lookout for is that Ted Cruz from where else but Texas!!!!

The social conservatives are what's driving people away from the Republican Party. They are why the GOP lost the top ticket and the House and Senate seats it did, and will cause more seats to flip Democratic in 2014.

A seat at the table? Fine by me. Just don't be surprised to see even more shrinkage in the GOP base. Fiscal conservatives have a chance, but social conservatives are too out of touch both with the current America and where we're heading over the next few years, and yet these people still seem to think they constitute a majority.

The problem and disconnect that social conservative simply haven't accepted in the last 20 years, is that their social agenda is obsolete.

@ThomasGrande ... you're exactly right. What the GOP doesn't recognize is that the problem isn't that they have the wrong messenger, but that they have the wrong message! This is 2012, not 1952. I think it was Haley Barbour who said that (idealogical) purity is the enemy of victory. The GOP has certainly proved that.

Excellent post Roy. But logic and facts NEVER works with the selfish and lazy and clueless!

Common Sense-2004266

The next freaky Republican to be on the lookout for is that Ted Cruz from where else but Texas!!!!

Yes. Good thing for Cruz, nobody asked him about pregnancies resulting from rape. He's in the same crowd as big-time Republican Senate losers Todd Aiken and Richard Mourdock. But here in Texas, the loonytoon voting bloc is pretty large, so he probably would have won anyway.

newdayDAWNING...RETURNED.....I couldn't have said it better myself!

Happy Thanksgiving to y'all.

I hope the Social Conservatives, our own American Taliban, gets a seat at the head of the table. That should ensure another clown show to remember.

It would be a real treat to have Presidential Debates between Hillary and Michele Bachman or Sarah Palin, Imagine that.

With the amount of advertising that we have to endure one would hope that we learn to discriminate between Bu****** and brains,as the saying goes. I Hope that most of us realise that the Republican Party is not re-thinking their platforms but discussing how to fool the populace into believing that they get the message. The performance of the chosen P.O.T.U.S. in the future will improve ,of that I have no doubts,but I hope that We The People are not distracted by acting performances .Unless both parties are truly attempting to advance a great society for all Americans and realise whom their true employers are we should not consider that a cute grin, sincere smile nor Earnest demeanor is enough to have us give them,male or female, the job.

Thanks, Chuck.

I am old enough to remember the old Republican Party. I was a proud member of it, they were fiscally conservative, but socially libertarian. They weren't interested in people's private lives.

They need to get back to that! Happy Thanksgiving.

The so-called social Republicans have got to be kidding. There is no group in America that interferes more with personal liberty than the so-called social conservatives.

I hope they all get a seat at the table so we can be done with them the next time any of them come up for reelection. They have practically destroyed the party and with Romney's help they may have already done so.

People were pushed to have to stand in line to vote, had their home equities deminished, live like poor peons in drastic debt while a few of them that have caused most of the trouble live like kings and pretend they create jobs.

Women will not forget how the right wingers want to probe their reproductive systems like some serial madmen that they are and "train" them to shut up and do what men tell them.

Young Americans will not forget how the right downplays the need for education that needs to be afordable, but they won't let it if they have the choice.

Americans will not forget the mindset coming from the 1% and those they own that is bent on making us a low wage society that will owe everything and own nothing.

We will not forget.

Social conservatives, end your self-serving, antiquated world view
with your Race to the Bottom, every man, woman, and child for his/herself,
refusal to pay your damn taxes, hatred for your fellow man, conspiracy theory
ignorance, delusional persecution complex, complete lack of civility and
decency. You and your Party deserve only to be crushed and minimized.

I found the "three legged stool" analogy interesting. The "leg" that is "social conservatives" has become festering and gangrene. It is absolutely necessary to amputate before it kills the entire being. The "social conservatives" have proven that they do not have enough popular support to form their own party, so they have been leeching off of the Republican Party. The Republicans never met a vote they didn't like, so they fed the leech, it became and infected sore and now it is beyond healing. Amputate now or watch the entire party writhe and suffer. It is beyond time for them to evolve and learn to stand on two legs...and they will receive much more support in the process.

One comment on the ridiculous tighty-righty comments about the "back of the bus"... You can make up what ever lies you wish, we all know the fundamental truth that debunks your lie to it's core....

...Sending teabaggers to the back of the bus is futile. There isn't a teabagger alive that knows their a$$ from the back of a bus.

Regardless of who we are or what we think, we can all find many reasons for giving thanks. Happy Thanksgiving!!

Several observations on the election and the GOP's losses:

1) Candidate quality is a major issue that is being ignored by the RNC. You cannot expect to run candidates of the quality of McCain/Palin and Romney/Ryan and expect to win. In 2008, McCain/Palin led in the polls for exactly four days in the entire campaign (the four days immdiately after McCain announced Palin as his veep choice.) In 2012, Romney/Ryan did not lead in the polls for even a single minute of the entire campaign. There is a trend here and that is what the RNC is so worried about.

2) Romney had been a one-and-out governor of Massacheusetts. The RNC and GOP completely ignored the fact that he was one of the most unpopular Presidents in Massacheusetts history. The main complaint "in Boston" was that you could never figure out where Romney stood on any given issue. Sound familiar? Then Romney started running for the GOP nomination and was beat by McCain, whose campaign imploded not once, but twice. And then in the primary it became obvious that the GOP voters preferred anyone to Romney, hence Cain, Gingrich, Santorum, and even Bachman all trounced Romney at one time or another. But when you look at Massacheusetts, the 2008 and 2012 elections together it was obvious that Romney was not the candidate of choice for the GOP.

3) While Rev Graham Jr said (incorrectly according to exit polls) that Romney lost because Christians did not vote, thee is a grain of truth there. Technically, Romney is not a Christian and that troubled a lot of people. While it was not a direct or primary reason that Romney lost, it was an indirect reason for those who were religous enough to resist voting for a non-Christian.

4) The SuperPAC money was a complete failure. There was only one Democratic superPAC with one pewrson who donated over a million dollars. Obviously they won. But there were eight superPACs that had one or more million-dollar-or-more donors who backed a number of Tea Party candidates for the House and Senate in addition to Romney/Ryan. Every single candidate backed by these superPAC donors lost. All that money did was to give the Democrats a talking point to raise similar amounts (though from small, not large donors.)

5) The attempts at voter suppression were a really bad move on the pat of the GOP. According to exit polls, more additional voters turned out than were suppressed, especially in three key states Pennsylvania, Florida, and Virginia.

6) The GOP ran its own polls and they all showed Romney winning in a landslide and they planned based on these polls. If you aggregated all polls (538 is a good example) then Romney was never competitive, never had a realistic chance unless Obama really screwed up and tanked and in the final weeks of the race, Romney had lots of momentum --- all downhill. Private polls that tell the RNC only what it wants to hear are a sure way to lose.

7) The GOP was once the "Big Tent" that embraced conservatives (Bill Buckley), moderates (Eisenhower) and liberals (George Romney.) When Eisenhower won re-election in 1956 during a major recession, he had over 70% of the African-American vote, near 100% of the GLBT vote, and Latino voters were still considered "white" and were indistinguishabl from the rest of the white vote. But to show you how far the GOP has changed, go look at the 1956 GOP Platform: http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=25838 Had "Eisenhower Republicans" still been significant in the GOP, this dicussion would not be happening.

8) It is only going to get worse in coming elections. There will be a greater proportion of young people as the Baby Boomers start to die off. There will be an increasing percentage of what the RNC calls "pigmentational minorities" --- non-whites. The political influence of women is already higher than for men and that percentage will continue to increase. These are all shifting demographics than the GOP cannot control. In 2016 Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, and New Hampshire will be colored blue and Florida, Ohio, Iowa, and Virginia will be joined by Georgia, Texas, and Arizona as "battleground" states.

The Democratic Party absolutely needs a strong and vibrant GOP. We do not need one-party rule in this country, regardless of which party. Our Founding Fathers hated the political parties, but unintentionally crafted a Republic whereby two opposing parties create both the need and mechanism for rule by compromise and accomodation.

But unless the Republicans are willing to see why they lost, acknowledge those reasons as valid, and really change their mindset, Hillary will be our next President.

We do need the give the 'social conservatives' a little bit of credit; they're smart enough to realize that they're running a real risk of being marginalized or expelled from the GOP if the few remaining sane Republicans manage to regain control of the party.

What will be fun to watch will be the shifting alliances between the various 'legs' to see who comes out on top. But their problem is they've all been hand-slapping each other on the back for so long and saying 'go team', that now that many of those hands may have knives in them.

They may just paper over their internal differences over and take another shot in the 2014 mid-terms to get the lay of the land; quite frankly, that may be their only choice as a party given the corner they've painted themselves into. But when that fails, the knives will come out in earnest...

Roy....those "freebies" you mentioned are also, in case you didn't know, collected by people who are conservative, vote religiously GOP, go to church every Sunday. It's a very broad spectrum of people who collect what the govt has for decades had built in so people don't go hungry, and get nessaray help on electric bills etc. You talk like there's a guy on the street corner just handing out money to any and everyone. And I'll give you a point earned, even though you didn't even bring it up, there are a lot of people who abuse the system too. There's no denying that. And the cost of MeciAid/Medicare goin' up....SURE it is. Remember the baby boomers? Yeah, them. Their coming of age now so what did you except? Damn, no wonder you and Geo get along so well, or at least he's got "hero worship" for ya goin' on. I suggest you run. Seriously though, I'll give ya credit for some good talkin' points, but the biggest debacle that started this fiscal cascade, was Bush Jr bringing the US into Iraq. I THINK you can still look up the numbers of the daily average cost in just the ONE war, then of course came Afghanistan, and then the dam was truly broken, Wall Street was broken, etc., etc. And some people actually thought Obama could magically fix it all in just four years. There will still be repercussions even after his second term, and doin' the best he can do with the lamest Congress in history. So wish him luck and lend a lil support

Chris, I agree with most of what you said, but at the end one thing kinda got me. The US should NEVER be just a two party political process. It should include any and all viable parties, and this year, as usual, did anyone see them ALL on stage during the debates with the GOP & DEMS? Nope, and you most likely never will, and I know you never have. They were scuttled into some dark corner and moderated by Larry King. I doubt 10% of Americans even knew when it was coming on TV, let alone watched it. This seriously needs to be changed, as does the debate system itself being all scripted and stuff. Abe Lincoln wouldn't have approved at all. Our debates have mostly been turned into sitcoms. Anyway, if nothing else, ideas and different outlooks can be explored and acknowledged, and at the end of the night when it's all said an done, some people might go home or go to bed, and have learned something(which is always good), but not the way the system's run now. It really does need to change, and hopefully for the better. Maybe we'll have a President from one of our major two parties who chooses a VP from a totally different party like the Green Party(not an endorsement, just sayin'), and the world of politics will change IF the people with big money aren't allowed to basically BUY or at least try to buy the WhiteHouse. It's not for sale(looks towards the Koch Brothers) Donations should be kept below $10k per person, no businesses or unions allowed by law, and let the popular vote decide who wins. We're the ONLY country where the winner can come up actually the looser by way of the electoral college. Something else that there's no need for.

Deserve, aka "entitled". I thought the GOP was all about earning their way.

Another myth debunked.

@Roy Wilson

If I hear the word ENTITLEMENT one more time I may scream. It's time you and the FAUX Entertainment a$$holes understood something and damned well understood it thoroughly. Social Security and Medicare are not ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS. People like me have worked our entire adult lives and have been forced to pay money into a GOVERNMENT MANDATED savings account for our retirement years called Social Security and into a pre-paid health care plan called Medicare. I'll say it again. The government FORCED our compliance with these programs. I was NOT GIVEN A CHOICE. The government made me a guarantee that, by contributing to those programs out of my hard-earned pay, when I reached either age 62 or age 65, I would have health care coverage that I had already paid for and I would begin to get the money back that I paid into my retirement savings account in monthly allotments.

Food Stamps, Public Assistance, Medicaid, subsidized housing, heating fuel assistance and on and on; THOSE are ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS. They are programs that provide benefits, to some extent, to people who do not work or have not paid for them. Social Security and Medicare do not fall into those categories. But, by referring to Social Security and Medicare as entitlement programs, it makes it sound like they are unearned hand-outs.

Lumping all of these programs under the same verbal umbrella sends an incorrect message; and it is calculated verbiage used to intentionally create a negative impression of the programs. Some of our politicians want people to believe that Social Security and Medicare are just more government welfare programs provided to lazy, worthless folks who refuse to work for a living. Words have power and to use this term regarding these programs is an attempt to make people angry; to retrain them to believe something that isn’t true.

Now some of the young bucks of the political circle have decided that this GOVERNMENT MANDATED PROGRAM is, actually, an ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM and "those people" receiving Social security payments each month and who have Medicare benefits are moochers - that we are lazy people who just want something for nothing. These politicians, who are SUPPOSED to be representing the best interests of the American people, have buddies on Wall Street that have sucked the private retirement and pension funds of unsuspecting people dry, so they need another source of money to play with so that they can maintain the high standard of living to which they have become accustomed. The solution some of these political idiots are kicking around is to turn OUR MONEY over to their pals on WALL STREET! We ALL know how that will end up, don't we? What a crock of bovine excrement!

These so-called "ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS" are nothing of the sort. It was a requirement for me to pay into the plans with the guarantee that I would get benefits or money back when I reached age 62 or age 65. Not age 67. Not age 70. Not age 72. To change the structure of the programs now, after forcing my participation for all these years, is nothing more than a breach of contract. If the fund we have been paying into has had its carcass picked clean through careless practices or outright theft, then these politicians had damned well better find a way to put the money they have taken out of it back into it. They can start by lowering their pay and their benefit packages. Personally I don't feel they are worth $177,000 a year, so they can take a salary cut to $30,000 a year. They can forget about their luxury health care plan that costs us millions of dollars a year and participate in Medicare like the rest of the working people. As for that retirement program into which they pay 1% of their income and get a return of 100% of their pay for life after serving for a measly five years can be tossed out as well. Most of us have to pay a substantial percentage of our income into our retirement as well as putting in 25 to 30 years on the job before we can retire. We need to change this system. That will save a chunk of change that can be put back into the programs we have paid for. The ones that they have mismanaged.

Get us the hell out of these wars that are, for the most part, just a way to bolster the coffers of the military-industrial machine. Halliburton and the other leeching mega-corporations have taken enough money from the pockets of the citizens of this nation. Use the money saved to help our American companies grow. That will put more people on the employment roles which means more money will go into the system and help sure it up.

As for all of the government employees who are exempt from paying into the programs because they have "special programs" just for themselves; that needs to be nipped in the bud. Why the hell should we pay taxes to provide them with separate retirement and health care plans while the ones we are depending upon are faltering? Who had the brilliant idea that government employees should not be part of the same system as the rest of the working people?

Medicare, also, is a program has been dubbed an ENTITLEMENT. But the working people have been MANDATED to pay into what was billed as a pre-paid medical insurance program. There was no choice. It was a contract between the working people and our government. We were REQUIRED to contribute to this PRE-PAID HEALTH CARE PLAN and in return, we would begin to receive the benefits of our contributions when we hit age 62 or age 65. They have screwed around with the money we have paid in and now want to change the contract they made with us. Well too freaking bad! Put the money back in that has been mishandled. You made us pay in all these years. Don't you dare try to change the rules in the final two minutes of the game.

For you and your ilk to continue referring to these two programs; Social Security and Medicare, as ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS, sends the message that people receiving the benefits from them are getting something for nothing. It is simply not true. Most of us who are at or close to retirement age, to some extent, are depending on these two programs. We have worked all our lives and PAID FOR THOSE PROGRAMS. It isn't like we are able to run out and find a 40-hour-a-week job hoisting around a shovel at our age. There are some realities that come in to play as people get older. There is a reason people retire. WE GET OLD.

It was Ryan and his band of GOP merrymakers that started deliberately using the "Entitlement Program" name for Social Security and Medicare. They used the term as a calculated way in which to create a negative response from the ignorant sheep like you.

Maybe that is your point, though; you believe that the older people are of no value to society. Once we get to retirement age, you would be happy to have us all sent to the ovens or put adrift on an ice flow. It certainly seems like you and the rest of these mollycoddled little bastards have a huge disdain for the older segment of the population. How short-sighted you are, though. If you are lucky, someday you will be where we are, and maybe then you will think differently. Just remember, karma can be a real bitch.

People like you, who distort the truth to meet the image you want people to believe, are nothing more than egocentric little brats. Ryan came out and publicly announced that, when he & Romney were elected, they planned to screw older Americans and the working people of this country out of the money we have paid into those plans.

The GOP wonders why it lost?!? Well it's no big mystery.

I know I'm probably not a very forgiving person but I am just not ready to save a place at the table for the Social Conservatives. I think they need to stand outside for a while longer and ponder their bad behavior. Perhaps we can let them in someday soon but not yet.

I think they need to stand outside for a while longer and ponder their bad behavior.

Amen Girlfriend!

I hope you & yours have a fantabulous Thanksgiving!

We have much to be grateful for this year, first and foremost was the re-election of President Barack Hussein Obama! ☺

interesting coming from a party that refuses responsibility, points the finger at the minority opposition and has prostitutes in its party claiming to be fidel and love

What, are you blind? You just described the Republican party!

Feisty - Yes indeed, my friend! We have much to be thankful for. Happy Thanksgiving to you, as well. My new avatar is my little Phoebe catching some rays. She absolutely loves turkey and gravy.

Self Educated Voter --

"You all have to read past the GOP's comments - to what they are truly saying! Like Gov. statement that some of the comments that were made were wrong!?! Not that their Beliefs were wrong but that they actually said what they believe. It would have been fine if they hadn't been recorded saying those things."

That's what I thought when reading the article. I'm sure they want to take back what Romney said in a private meeting about the 47%ers. They don't disagree, they just wish it hadn't been recorded. They can't change their minds about the issues so quickly, they're just sorry they lost the election. Romney was changing his opinions by the minute only a couple weeks ago. They simply can't be trusted.

I vote for NO SEAT AT THE TABLE…The social and Christian conservatives need to form their own political party.

Shortly after the election of Bill Clinton, the Republican Party actually encouraged conservative Christians to join the Party. Then, the GOP hierarchy allowed Christian conservatives to encroach on Party leadership. The 2012 elections are proof of that.

The Christian conservatives enjoy telling everyone else how to live their life. They really do need to form their own political party. After the drubbing they got in this recent election, maybe they will do that.

The Republican Party hierarchy and poobahs need to understand that grey-haired or balding, pot-bellied men, should not be trying to legislate what a woman can or cannot do with her body. Such a choice is up to the woman, her God, and her doctor – and NO ONE ELSE.

Moderate Republicans could see the handwriting on the wall, and did not want the White House and political appointees stacked and crammed with members of the "Mormon Mafia," or conservative Christians. Therefore, the moderates voted for President Obama.

The defeat of Willard Romney and Paul Ryan also is a rejection of the draconian thinking of the conservative Christians.

By the way, I am a moderate Republican - who did not vote for Romney/Ryan, specifically due to their draconian religious views about women's rights.

Moderate Republicans should grab their pitchforks and herd the conservative Christians out of the Party. It is not the 1800s or the 1940s. Times have changed. People have changed. The GOP POOBAHS & HIERARCHY need to get with it and change, or they are going to lose a lot of elections.

It is time for the voters to focus on the U.S. Congress – members of the House of Representatives and the Senate, to get them to cooperate. It is time to set and reach goals to keep our country strong, and productive. It is time to make responsible budgets, and to pay down the U.S. debt. Congress needs to act responsibly.

Unless and until the Republican Party changes its thinking to be more cooperative and inclusive, nothing will change.

Three legged stool my butt! The (R)'s are currently a jerry-rigged Rube Goldberg contraption with several pieces missing, like being rational, staying the hell out of people's bedroom or wombs and wanting all the saftey net and benefits bestowed by the ruling class, of course without having to pay for it(who's the takers?) Trying to unravel these idiots is impossible, their essentially a three headed carnival freak. Remove one head and they all die. Their demise is quickly approaching and their bickering and demanding more say. To hell with all you idiots, you all deserve each other. By the way, everybody have a Great Holiday!

D. Appel - That was one long rant - but dammit, one that needs to be said over and over again. and more importantly, reinforced over and over again. Those contracts are only valid as long as we as a society agree to keep them. Republicans want to negate them and have a trillion dollar field day with the cash. I agree with you and say not so fast mister .. we paid into those systems, and we expect something with those systems. That is why Romney and his GOPTP minions lost. They think those funds are theirs for the taking. No they are not .. we owe all of it to those of us that paid, and to future payees into the system.

I'm sure that if Romney had harped on social conservative issues - I no doubt would have given him my vote - NOT!

What is with conservatives and the imaginary powers of conversion? Speaking in the voice of The Wizard Of Oz - you will follow my words of wisdom - for I am the great and wonderful Republican.

Bobby Jindal wil forever be etched in the minds of the AMerican voter for his "Mr ROgers Neighborhoood" tour of the LOuisiana governor's mansion. Kind of like Dukakis and the tank.

GuyFromSanDIego: …If a person wishes to be "socially conservative" that is well and fine.
But the moment they try to impose their opinion on someone else…that's a
problem and I will never support a party that wants to limit another person in
any way.

I agree with you… but both of the two major parties are trying to do just that, and they pass laws every year to further their aims in doing so.

DJ-422465: Social Conservatives don't 'deserve' a spot at the table.

RedDevPS: Social conservatives do not deserve a place at the table.

Don’t hold back guys. But now that you’re both on a roll, add Social Progressives to the list, and any other social group that comes to mind. No social group should have a say in how we live our lives.

kaybeetoys: …quit trying to tell the rest of us how to live our lives… stay OUT of our bedrooms. Stay OUT of our doctor's exam rooms. Let us practice OUR religion or no religion.

Exactly; what others do, and how they want to live is their business, and their problems to deal with. Quit trying to include the rest of us, socially and financially.

TomasGrande: Election after election, poll after poll, the young people are taking over this country slowly but surely, and they are shaping what American is going to be like from this point on.

And this has changed "how" over the last two hundred years?

TomasGrande: Gay marriage is now a part of Americana. It is here to stay. Gay couples should have the same rights
and tax legislation rights as all American's.

Damn right…gay has always been here, and now they get to marry. Now maybe we can eliminate some
of those antiquated marriage and custody laws so everyone is treated fairly, and possibly even drop the whole concept of marriage as a lawfully regulated arrangement. You want to be gay, raise a puppy, make a cake, get married…do it. But keep the government out of it.

TomasGrande: Abortions have gone down over the past ten years, and that's a good thing. But I think the argument on the Freedom of Choice side is that the Government and some religions need to keep their creepy hands off of woman's body's, off of womans rights, and out of the bedroom.

Lower abortion rates as a good thing…? Mmm…It’s debatable. As for a woman’s right to chose, I'm with you buddy. It’s a personal thing, and they and they alone should have the right to decide. But I should get to decide if I am willing to pay for it. Extreme circumstances, victims of violent acts and incest, or to save a woman’s life, I’m all in; but for convenience …their choice, their dime.

FoxTrotsky: I don't ever again want to hear a Republican voter speak the word "bipartisanship." Their party blocked or sabatoged bill after bill…fully aware that they were prolonging the misery of millions of
un- or under- employed Americans.

GOPisextinct: …You can only get that kind of economic prosperity from the balanced approach the Democrats offer: the one where prosperity happens at BOTH sides of the corporate food chain.

You two and anyone else who feel the Govt owes us a road to a job and a paycheck had better take a good look at what is going on in the rest of the world. It’s a new game with a lot more capable, trained, willing, and industrialized players, all vying for the same resources and markets. Most American’s don’t get it because they’re still viewing the world through their “We’re Superior Tinted” glasses made 30 years ago, or more. Reps, Dems, or both, it really doesn't matter. There is no plan because neither party knows how to capture world markets and resources. Businesses do, and they do what they can, but it’s getting tougher every year to compete. Thankfully they’re not headed by politicians; just hampered by them.

Oh yeah, and as for the corporate food chain, many of its links are already fastened to lands, resources, properties, business and even retirement plans in this country…owned and managed by international and foreign companies.

And for those of you who think we’re going to save this country by bailing out failing corporations and allowing politicians who can’t even balance a checkbook to determining winners and losers in the markets, you may want to cling tightly to your butt, because the Govt is about to start taking everything else.

CEW- I agree, no social group should have a say in anybodies life. I don't care what some strangers reglious or moral belief is, if I don't share their belief, will they change to mine? NO, then why in hell should I change to suit strangers?

For the life of me, I just cannot remember God telling me that everything I believe is right and the entire population of the United States must live according to my belief.

If you don't believe in something, or you think it's wrong, don't do it!! but don't tell me I have to live by your belief.

When the republican party learn that simple fact, they'll be alright.

American Girl-724855: I don't want to be "socially engineered" especially NOT by a political party that doesn't share my beliefs…Just say NO to social and religious engineering by Republicans!

So, I’m guessing you voted Libertarian or Independent. If not, you may want to read “Agenda 21” and a number of the Executive Orders that have been issued over the last 10 years. Both the Reps and the Dems have a plan for us...the same plan, and it's not good.

SeekingSanity: I think so many Republicans are looking for a realistic party - not the far right nonsense the current GOP has become.

I think most of us are looking for a realistic party…and not the nonsense provided by either of the two major ones.

jp-1092210: …The debt under Obama went up because he had to pay for....two wars…TARP bailouts…giving unemployment for 99 weeks, medication reform that was not funded...and on and on and on...

Actually, both wars could have stopped with the stroke of a pen in the first two years of Obama’s first term when the Dems controlled both houses of Congress and the Presidency. All he has to do now is refuse to sign continued funding. TARP bailouts and unfunded mandates did not have to be paid or enforced, and none of the failing corporations, many of which continue to fail due to poor business practices, unrealistic expectations and overhead costs, and global competition need be granted access to the nation’s coffers. The Govt should not be in the commercial business of owning and running companies. Yet here we are…and continue to remain…losing more money each and every day.

Oh, and if you think the fight here in Afghanistan is going to end in 2014 with all of us coming home, you need to read more government news articles. We’re scheduled to be here well after 2016, with US funding and support continuing well into 2020 and beyond.

TomasGrande: President Obama was re-elected in a Landslide because his policies are making America
better and the Republican policies are the ones that screwed it up. A Landslide is 332 Electoral Votes to 206 Electoral Votes.

No Tomas… a landslide victory is when well more than 50% of a nation’s populace cast their vote for one candidate, not a paltry 2-3% margin. The Electoral College is a perversion of the system designed specifically to prevent third parties from entering into the Rep-Dem controlled playground. Do the math. If you want to make every vote equal, get rid of the Electoral College.

D. Appel: If I hear the word ENTITLEMENT one more time I may scream. Social Security and Medicare are not ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS. People like me have worked our entire adult lives and have been forced to pay money into a GOVERNMENT MANDATED savings account for our retirement years called Social Security and into a pre-paid health care plan called Medicare.

Actually, for you and others like myself who pay into the system, yes, it is a “mandated savings account.” But not everyone who is entitled to and collects Social Security and Medicare by virtue of current Federal Law, pay into the system; hence the connotation “Entitlement.”
You do know that many who collect never pay, right? Do you also know that many who are also prevented from collecting due to the same Federal Laws? Odd isn’t it.

Let's take a trip back in time..."Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."-Barry Goldwater. Let's all sit quietly and think about THAT.

28th Amendment to the US Constitution.

In order to perpetuate the division in America it will be mandated that every four or eight years, depending on majority, that whoever holds the majority within the three branches of government shall combine forces to implement legislative social engineering. Whether it be welfare creating, wealth distributing socialist leftist social engineers (or) greed perpetuating, religious right, war-mongerer, higher than though rightist social engineers shall make no appreciable difference. The end result shall be to allow the loudest 10% control over how the masses live (whether it be the loudest from the the left or right) and permanently remove representation of the 80% in the middle who don't want to control others lives and rights.

This Amendment shall run its course until such time as either, the 80% without true representation wake themselves to the fact that both left and right are socially engineering American society to the point that we are all less free (or) until all are ultimately dependent on government for morality and survival.

Yes! Yes, let the self righteous, judgmental, religious fanatic, @!$%#s that lost y'all the election in the first place, back to the table!

They will continue to be the loudest ones at the table, spouting ridiculous myths as fact and throwing tantrums when they don't get their way and it will only help to further promote a republican free future.

Please, by all means let them have their place at your table!

Who else hopes the libertarians take over the right hand side of politics?

Roy and Caesar,

You both notice there are very few people clicking on you to check and agree with your right wing nut case comments. That is because many of us remember your election predictions that now show how out of touch you are with reality and how out of touch Mitt and the republican party were and are as well!

Roy and Caesar,

You both notice there are very few people clicking on you to check and agree with your right wing nut case comments. That is because many of us remember your election predictions that now show how out of touch you are with reality and how out of touch Mitt and the republican party were and are as well!

To hear words like "bipartisanship", "responsibility", or "maturity" from a Republican is very like hearing the words "love" or "fidelity" from a prostitute.

interesting coming from a party that refuses responsibility, points the finger at the minority opposition and has prostitutes in its party claiming to be fidel and love

Caesar Agustus - evading responsibility is very much a bi-partisan trait. I'll just cite the 6+ years of largely Republican rule, from Jan. 2001 until Jan. 2007, when a Democratic congress took over. During that time, the Republicans took us from a quasi-budget surplus to large deficits, embroiled in a useless war, in Iraq, while ignoring the decaying situation in Afghanistan, allowed the housing bubble and mortgage-securities chicanery to grow unchecked, and then left this entire mess for the Democrats to sort out.

The typical response of Republican supporters: It never happened. It was all the big, bad democrats preventing financial reforms, voting [as the minority party] with the Republicans to go to war in Iraq, and generally causing all of the problems.

When the wheels came off our economy in 2008, it was as a direct result of inaction by Congress in the preceding 7 years, during most of which, Congress was held by the Republicans. By 2008, we already had a huge budget deficit, and were ill-prepared to deal with the collapsing economy. Democratic congressmen were certainly at fault too. But the Republicans were certainly in charge during most of these crucial years, and with authority comes responsibility.

I'll also point out the actions of the Republicans in 2011, when we made our first approach to the "fiscal cliff", which we are now approaching again. Their complete intransigence to any tax increases, or other revenue measures repeatedly prevented congress from reaching a rational compromise. The Tea-Party ideologues were in control, with such nut cases as Michele Bachmann setting the agenda.

So, I can certainly agree that the Democratic Party has also taken the "our way or the highway" approach when in power, but it is not, as you say, the party which refuses responsibility; it is just another party which does so, and looking back at the last decade, I'd say they have learned well from the masters.

I genuinely wish you a happy Thanksgiving.

Republicans' soul searching following the 2012 election could shortchange social conservatives, who say they're hardly to blame for the party's difficulties at the polls.

No, of course not. I'm sure it had nothing to do with the almost comic collection of reactionary conservatives who vied for the Republican Presidential nomination, wherein each candidate seemed intent on on proving he or she was more deeply rooted in 1911 than 2011.

Nor did the party's close association with such popular policies as mandatory trans-vaginal ultra sounds as a prerequisite for an abortion hurt them at the polls, or the the public pronouncements of noted Republican candidates for congress regarding rape and abortion.

No. That was not the problem.

It was Obama giving out free gifts, at taxpayer expense, in return for votes from the "47%". That must be it.

BTW: I got a new set of steak knives. But they are not very good. I took them down to the Obama campaign office in my town, but it was closed. Does anyone know where I can file a complaint.

I will NEVER vote for any republican in a national race as long as the social conservatives are in that party. You hear me? N E V E R

This last election truly shows just how badly this nation is divided. The moral decline of this country is at an all time high.

It appears that the culture of greed and impunity we are witnessing on our TV screens stretches right up into corporate boardrooms and our government. It embraces the police and large parts of our media. It is not just our damaged youth, but America itself that needs a moral reformation.

Some continue to believe in honesty, decency, hard work, and putting back into society at least as much as they take out. It begins with the PEOPLE. The majority think abortion, and the unwillingness to work and live off others, etc., etc., is okay. It is not.

It is as corrupt at the top as it is at the bottom.

These people have become dependent upon the government, so they naturally will continue to vote for the Democrats. A cynic might suggest that the Democrats are 'buying votes with taxpayer funds', but of course that would be considered 'heartless towards those in need', or even 'racist'.

Roy Wilson, A rational observer might note that at least one such programs, "Earned Income Tax Credits" was first implemented as a modest program in 1975, under Republican Gerald Ford, then greatly expanded in 1986, under that great liberal President, Ronald Reagan, and again in 1990, under George H.W. Bush (the one who was not completely useless), and again in 1993, under Clinton, and yet again in 2001, under George [the tail-wagging idiot] Bush.

But of course, that would be considered deflating to imaginary "liberal agenda" theories being used to explain away the 2012 election results.

Rather than regarding the 47% of the U.S. adults whom pay no income taxes, or those whom may be receiving food stamps, medicaid benefits, or other public assistance as moochers intent on only voting for those promising them free government handouts, perhaps you should be asking why so much of the U.S. population has become members of the working poor. The national welfare rolls stand at about 4.1% of the population, which means that most of these people whom you view almost as parasites, are working; they are just unable to earn enough money to survive in our society.

Believe it not, this is not something which further tax cuts for the wealthy will fix. Conservatives have been preaching of the glories and wonders to be provided by a flatter tax rate since the Reagan era, and during the intervening years, the disparity in incomes between the rich and the poor has only grown worse.

When do the positive effects kick in?

the Tea Party and Far right conservatism has broken the party permanently...

to get elected now, GOP candidates have to go so far right to get the base in the primaries, that they end up committed to views that are impossible to reconcile with the center.. you've gotta get the center more now than ever....

the center is much bigger, more culturally and racially diverse, typically don't give a damn about spending political effort on abortion rights and same sex marriage.....

but most of all... the center wants our government to stop playing games and do their job...

the center saw Romney Ryan as selling out to the tea party and prepping to privatize medicare / turn it over to the private insurance sector.... and everybody knows what is going to happen to healthcare if insurance companies hold every last card in the deck.....

how is a logical centrist of either party going to vote for that? they never will, it's too dangerous for the country...

if the GOP doesn't reinvent itself to be moderate, reasonable as a compromise party, and getting things done right now... the mid terms are going to be a bloodbath.....

but if Hillary runs in 2016.... there is no chance for the GOP, none, nada... it is a slam dunk... most of the moderate Republicans I know would vote for her today vs. Jeb Bush or anybody else I mention.

What these jerks don't get is that no one cares if they want to live their lives like it was 1850. Just don't insist the rest of us do that! Or that the "government" which you claim you want to be "smaller" force us to join you!!

The GOP hasn't been a Fiscal Conservative party since the prehistoric days of Richard Nixon.

Social conservatives are all they got.

.

and that's nothing worthwhile...

The problem most of us have with social conservatives is that they never stop trying to force their beliefs down every body's throat. No one tells them how to live their lives but their so damned arrogant they think they can dictate to the rest of us how we should live ours.

For over thirty years conservatives have had a controlling influence within the Republican Party. In that time they have tried to erase the line separating church and state; if they ever succeed in doing so there will be second civil war in this country. The average American doesn't want religous laws controlling his or her life.

It is interesting - even fascinating - how well the Democrats have re-labeled the message.

It used to be: Pro-Choice vs Pro-Life (both sides got to be FOR something!)

Then it was: Pro-Choice vs Anti-Abortions Rights.

Then it was: Pro-Choice vs 'The WAR on Women's Health'

MSNBC falls right into line, and in this article, they define the sides as "supporters of abortion rights" vs "opponents of abortion rights". Not 'supporters of life' or 'supporters of babies' or 'supporters of full-term-pregnancies' or even 'supports' of anything. The Pro-Life side get's relabeled as 'opponents of a right', which changes the whole debate.

Don't get me wrong, I consider myself liberal on many social issues. However, it's fascinating how well the Democratic party has changed the 'terms' or 'labels' and then that changes the whole debate. It used to be that both sides of almost any issue would consider themselves 'for' something, and they could debate what they were 'for'. Now, the terms of this (and many other debates) have been cleverly re-defined, and people with a Pro-Life opinion find themselves labeled as ''Waging a War on Women'' or ''Haters of Women Rights", which fundamentally tilts the whole debate.

Sure, give them a seat at the table. The kids table where they can talk all they want to about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. That way they can let the adults in the room who have matured out of their infantile superstitions handle the real business of running the country and plotting its course for a future that does not include regressing back to the dark ages.

So long as they demand to legislate their version of morality into the U.S. Constitution they will end up losing any majority they imagine they have.

all's good,

I love how you produce your ideas out of then air. If only citizens voted? Da. Ever hear of The new push for voter ID's which prevents fraud? Our state has had 10 cases of voter fraud in a decade. If you take the total number of voters voting in the past ten years that amounts to .00000001% voted fraudulently so please tell us how and where you made up your "Fairy Tale?" I knopw! FOX told you! And you believe them! LOL

all's good,

I love how you produce your ideas out of then air. If only citizens voted? Da. Ever hear of The new push for voter ID's which prevents fraud? Our state has had 10 cases of voter fraud in a decade. If you take the total number of voters voting in the past ten years that amounts to .00000001% voted fraudulently so please tell us how and where you made up your "Fairy Tale?" I knopw! FOX told you! And you believe them! LOL

There are now 47 million families that get free food and cash aid, and they credit the Democrats for 'giving' them that largess. At $550 per month average, that's about $300 Billion per year in 'freebies'.

// Distortion: The idea of insulting this number of voters is not useful, understand this much a block of disfranchised voters are likely to vote 50/50 when there is no coherent plan. While the focus should have always been how to improve the economy, for the last 100 years, the election seldom if ever produces a coherent message on the economy. Tax laws providing tax relief for low income workers is at best marginal in its effects since it does not focus on improving the economic conditions that would elevate wages, and allow these workers to begin paying taxes.

The only cynical evaluation is that these voters can continue to vote against you if it motivates your voters to vote for you, enabling targeted campaign funding to turn the election into a 50.01% rout over the 49.99% opposition. The winner of a 'no plan' vs. 'no plan' contest is the winner of something between 'not much' and nothing, with a downward trend in place.

The pendant complaint about $300 Billion for insults could be compared to $300 Billion for Foreign Oil, and $300 Billion of the defense budget to defend that Foreign Oil. Those last two have been Republican Policy since at least the Reagan Revolution. A $300 Billion tab /year for either of two these (investments), compounded with interest etc. over the past 32 years comes to somewhere between the GNP (13.8 T) and the National Debt (16 T). Math does not count in politics but 30 T invested in the USA in those same years, should have had a positive effect on those 47 million slaves, even in Capitalist economic system these are not good investments, to peruse them for 32 years.

The election 50%/50% tossups for decades on end does not mean that the country is divided on how to commit economic suicide, it means only that those who are delegated the task of managing the economic system are failing, miserably. Those financial managers/economists have not the barest clue of Capitalism and how it drives the economy. Think of managers/economists as brain surgeons for the economy and their only tool is egg beater.

In our prayer at the dinner table, with the family on Thanksgiving, we all stated our thank you to God for the results of the November 6th election. Evan one member of the family, who voted for Romney, now states the republican party is really sick the way the vultures in it attacked him for his campaign!

to illuminate the backwards, twisted mindset of the religious right;

when the leader against the proposition to allow gay marriage is WA state finally conceded defeat, she stated that gay marriage was an "attack on her religious freedom".

WTF? how is allowing others that don't believe as you do to follow their own belief an "attack on your religious freedom"?

unless of course you only consider "religious freedom" to be the freedom to tell others how to live their lives

The honest advice that any left-leaning participant would give his right-leaning fellows is to run - not walk - away from the holy-rollers, as fast as you can go. About half the country would be happy if we could ever get back to a healthy two-party system. Roughly forty percent of the country would do well to learn the values of critical thinking and forming your own opinion, and the last ten percent will eventually die.

"Republicans have always likened their party to a three-legged stool."

But given the overall makeup of the last 2 generations of Republican leaders, to make the analogy accurate today, one must remove the term "three-legged" and replace it with "runny."

Now it's accurate.

Is it that hard for people to realize that he used a metaphor and meant that it was Our turn at the wheel and they would have to take back seat to us. I laugh loudly at the back of the bus comment that he never said.

Roy Wilson

First

Your right about all those people with federal benefits. But wrong about who they vote for. 99% of those people live in the red states, and if look at the election map, most of the red state voters are in the south, and, none of them voted for President Obama. I know it's hard living in a fact based world, but, please try!!

Second

The social conservatives can sit at the table, they just can say anything, because most of them still believe that the Americans didn't land on the moon, and that the earth is flat!

Actually Barlow, The majority of the people voted for Obama, it's called the popular vote. This vote includes red states as well. He even won in all the swing states. Regardless of how much color is red on a map, the popular vote says it all. I know it's hard living in a fact based world, but please try!!

Say Brenda, sweety, I was posting in answer to Roy Wilson post further up. You have to read his to understand mine. I'm sorry you are so confused, but it will get better.

Barlow-1919963

Say Brenda, sweety, I was posting in answer to Roy Wilson post further up. You have to read his to understand mine. I'm sorry you are so confused, but it will get better.

Maybe if you post correctly and put in quotes so we know you are doing that then maybe there would be no confusion. See above. Maybe if you did that, things would be better.

Brenda, just keep posting as the right will always come up with some excuses about everything. That includes their losing and the president buying votes, the media coverage, Mitt flip-flops etc. But the fact that there are 11 less teabuggers in government should be celebrated! Right you Neo- republicans!

I can't wait till Obamacare and the IRS's new army, just for Obamacare, comes after all you pandering liberal pricks...

lets check the liberals out then...lol ...see in 2014 and 2016 (good luck with that one)

Shosy,

You get what you pay for and since 68% of bankruptcies come from medicals coasts to Americans, including pre-existing conditions which Obamacare covers, I've got my check handy already compared to republicans and Norquist who won't admit the present tax rates are the lowest since the 1960's. All to give the rich tax breaks and to fight two lost wars setting back the American taxpayer, $4,000,000,000,000 poured down the toilet in 11 years!

's alls good,

This election proves to me that there are gullible people out there who can believe the lies of the right so much they they actually think they are true. Go get your daily shot of FOX propaganda and start believing lies!

By retooling does this mean the right is prepared to put down their rocks and move up to bronze weapons.

TO: BigAl Las Vegas who wrote:

"The problem most of us have with social conservatives is that they never stop trying to force their beliefs down every body's throat. No one tells them how to live their lives but their so damned arrogant they think they can dictate to the rest of us how we should live ours.

For over thirty years conservatives have had a controlling influence within the Republican Party. In that time they have tried to erase the line separating church and state; if they ever succeed in doing so there will be second civil war in this country. The average American doesn't want religous laws controlling his or her life."

Well said.

I can't wait till Obamacare and the IRS's new army, just for Obamacare, comes after all you pandering liberal pricks...

"pandering pricks"?, you must be talking about the sh!t slinging right wing nut job radio and tv slobs

The table analogy is all wrong.

The GOP fatcats are driving a car that is already going down hill and running out of gas.

The social Conservatives, ("Toonces"), think that they can keep driving off the cliff and will live again come next election because they believe they have nine lives. Ask any road kill cat if that's true....

The fiscal Conservatives, ("The Cheshire Cat" ) think they can turn the car around and drive uphill using the same old Chevy gas guzzler (trickle down) that they had in 1950, 1980, 2000, and 2004. Their advice is hopelessly flawed and already proven wrong.

The NeoCon National Security Conservatives ("Scratchy from Itchy and Scratchy") think that they can attract passengers by blowing the car up or trying to sideswipe other vehicles and that they will be able to eliminate their foes by doing so. They have already proven to be suicidal maniacs that nobody wants to ride with to anywhere, including another MidEast war.

So, I say let "Toonces" drive for a while. It's at least good for a laugh....

Sadly, your perspective terribly understates the issue with the conservative right. This is America's Taliban, and that too may understate their potential ruthless indifference towards other Americans.

Look closely at one party rule in states such as Arizona and you begin to realize that the far right conservatives eventually will force other Americans to their knees, forcing their 1st century religious, their dark ages ignorance and savagery onto the world if they ever had too much power. Is America ready for their Inquisition and the next Crusades? They hate freedom more than liberals. It's THEIR America and they will force us backwards as soon as they get the opportunity. Time to vote EVERY one of them out of office.

Ursula-279622

"There are a very significant number of Americans that feel very strongly about the issue of life, about the issue of marriage..."

Significant but not the majority. Too bad, so sad...but until they "get out of people's lives, get out of people's bedrooms" they will continue to be a minority.

The point the far right social conservatives are missing is, even though many people are personally socially conservative, most people do not think the government should be involved in these decisions. Also, the younger generations (those below about 45) actively support the liberal social viewpoints the social conservatives oppose.

Ursula - We'll get out of the bedroooms when you get out of our wallets. FAIR?

The GOP is in big trouble if you look at the millennials who are growing up...these millennials support gay marriage, they don't go to church, they grow up with diversity. They are more open, more networked, better educated, and more committed to making governemnt work than the generations before them. They are more likely to more ethnic minorities.

.

when these flks grow up...GOP will be further in trouble...big...big trouble.

Cleanse the Lame-Turkeys in Congress for a better Thanksgiving !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

correction to #2.4 : when these folks (millennials) grow up...GOP will be further in trouble...big...big trouble.

We'll get out of the bedroooms when you get out of our wallets. FAIR?

Funny, social totalitarians will spend billions to elect officials to regulate the bedroom, but won't spend a dime to build a road to get to work. Odd set of priorities.

There are a growing majority of Americans that feel strongly about FREEDOM and EQUALITY. Take care of your own religion, life, and marriage- and stay out of mine. I find it interesting how a woman's right to control her own body/health-care has to be termed something about being "pro-life." Totalitarian governments often twist words/ideas like this.

My only issue is neither side represents most americans. The democrats represent the majority of america and that is 'Stay OUT of my Bedroom and Life as the matter of fact'. Where the the republicains are more financial correct, Just say STOP spending more than you make. the Fatcs are that Obama has spent MORE than any other President has ever, he alone has added 5 to almost 6 Trillion to the National Debt!!!! And to bring that into prospective i last heard that was about $51,000 for every Man, Woman and Child, Babies too, in america.

TO: geo-1957883 who wrote:

"... We'll get out of the bedroooms when you get out of our wallets. FAIR?"

I love Republicans who are stuck on stupid!

In fact, that was such a crazy thing to say, I think it ought to be a part of Republicans' new Party Platform: "We have a right to run your lives because everybody has to pay taxes."

Dumb, but very "right wingy".

By all means ... please start with the biggest TURKEYS of all .... Harry Reid and Nancy "you'll have to pass the bill to see what's in it" Pelousy !

American Girl - I love it when you call me names. It proves your intellectual superiority.

Social conservatives are killing the Republican party. As a fiscal conservative I was dissapointed that the social conservative message was able to get out in front. The government needs to stay out of people's bedrooms and let them do what they want with their bodies (i.e. give women the choice on abortion, legalize drugs and prostitution), but it also need to reign in the out of control spending and stay out of our wallets until it can show some sort of fiscal responsability. I'm not registered to either party but I voted Republican for the most part in this past election, but I would be more open to the idea of paying more in taxes if the government could show me that it could at least balance its checkbook.

Pretty sure geo your wallet has nothing in it I need or want. Please remember, it's you and your "conservative" brethren belly aching how bad your life is not me. So how about YOU stop being so jealous of MY wallet.

I find it so interesting that the conservatives that want government out of their wallets and want to decide how everyone acts in their own bedrooms, has no problem sending our men and women into useless and damned expensive wars!

TO: geo-1957883 who wrote:

"American Girl - I love it when you call me names."

Givingthanks Yapph!

To those Republicans who get everything backwards.

geo: We'll get out of the bedroooms when you get out of our wallets. FAIR?

No. It's not fair. It's not even the same issue, and you know it. Stop pretending ignorance.

Don't worry libby's you women can kill as many fetuses as you want, even if the baby has a botched abortion this President voted you can kill the baby in the 8th and 9th month, so calm down and continue killing. Happy Holidays!

the Fatcs are that Obama has spent MORE than any other President has ever,

Utter, complete, fabricated, lie. Just look at the math in your own post. If Obama inherited a $10T debt, and increased it to $16T, it means he spent $6T. Who spent the other $10T? It wasn't Obama.

geo - every single post you write something like you just wrote. You couldn't be more wrong. Our President voted that a late term abortion could be done to save the mother's life - for no other reason. But, of course to you, a woman is not important! And, abortions are not done in the 8th or 9th month - they just either induce labor or do a C section and deliver the baby. The baby's life is not terminated.

You have issue and they clearly aren't with politics. I hope you get some help!

even if the baby has a botched abortion

Since when do babies have botched abortions?

RedDev - only in the mind of geo!

geo-1957883

Ursula - We'll get out of the bedroooms when you get out of our wallets. FAIR?

Who are you kidding. Your God-Fearing Social Conservative/American Taliban will always be in our bed rooms and our pants. It's who they are! There's no dealing with republicans.

"What's in Your Wallet?"

@RedDevPS #2.19, Thank you ! Thank you !! Thank you !!! You have just CONFIRMED that Obama ran up the national debt another $6 trillion ! The other $10 trillion was run up BY ALL HIS PREDECESSORS ......... COMBINED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The amazing thing is you libs still have no financial common sense to realize what that means to future generations.

Try comparing the debt of Obama to any "ONE" of his predecessors if you don't want to make a complete, utter, abject FOOL of yourself !

Hold onto your britches there, Jim. I said no such thing - I said the math proposed in the post didn't support the claim.

RedDev - give it up. jim and Kirky are friends and will do whatever it takes to twist what you say into something unrecognizable and not even close to what you've said. Or, they'll alter the question. It's their MO!

The republicans claim to soul-search after the ass-kicking they took in '08 and '12. They know full well why their stool is wobbly: in the 90's they got in bed with the religious right and in the late 00's the brought a second partner onto their bed in the form of the tea party. That makes for a very unstable three-legged stool. The threesome was fun while it lasted.

Their problem now isn't figuring out why they lost, it is figuring out how to kick these people out of bed while retaining the benefits - kinda like kicking your crazy girlfriend out of bed and still getting blown every now and then.

As long as the ultra-fiscal-conservs and the ultra-social-conservs dictate republican policies, they will just have to put up with all the nagging and none of the benefits.

I'm a socially liberal, atheist, independent who would like to see us tackle our debt and deficit problems. I will never vote for a Santorum or a Bachmann. Now a Christie or a Huntsman ... they could actually sweet talk me into voting for them.

IN #2.19 RedDev, you attacked a post calling it a "Utter, complete, fabricated, lie." The post which you linked compared Obama to "ONE" President. Now you are doing a "crawdad move" and trying to deny your post which is available for everyone to see.

Oh, and SS ... I have a simple question for you. Now that Obama has been re-elected and our country is over $16 trillion in debt, will Obama finally get off his a$$ and "see to it" that a budget gets passed ????? Will Obama provide the leadership to get it done or is he incapable ???????????

geo-1957883

Ursula - We'll get out of the bedroooms when you get out of our wallets. FAIR?

Two wrongs don't make a right. How about the government stays out of the bedrooms AND gets out of our wallets?

JM-1992894

The republicans claim to soul-search after the ass-kicking they took in '08 and '12.

To be fair, the Republicans kicked ass in 2010...

TO: Ron-1861300 who wrote:

"To be fair, the Republicans kicked ass in 2010..."

Maybe so but everybody regrets it, and the approval ratings of Congress have never been lower.

Ron,

No dispute on that. The democrats got their ass handed to them in 2010.

But to continue with my analogy, that is when they brought the new partner into bed with them. But like a hung over sailor waking up the next day with a dog in their bed, they regreted every minute of if. Now, they are trying to figure out how to make that dog stop calling them - except when they need a "favor" every 2 years.

as geo illustrates, "they" want it their way or no way at all. I have some news for you geo - once the Latino population comes of voting age (and they ARE starting) the right-wing-nuts will be a vanishing "force". They tend to vote DEM.

Too bad, so sad, you are becoming IRRELEVANT! (2016 will NOT overlooked like 2010 was and many more Koch suckers will get their walking papers)

TO: fielden who wrote:

geo: We'll get out of the bedroooms when you get out of our wallets. FAIR?

"...Stop pretending ignorance."

You think he's "pretending"?

geo-1957883

Ursula - We'll get out of the bedroooms when you get out of our wallets. FAIR?

So, if we don't raise taxes on the top earners, you'll forget all about trying to repeal legal abortions and access to birth control and legalizing same sex marriage, right?

put a fork in it - The Latinos are on the same path that African Americans are. Slaves. Are the African Americans better of since they started voting for Democrats in the early 60's? The Democrats are following LBJ's enslaving techniques. Obama is trying to perfect them. I feel very sorry for the Idiots like American Girl who can follow a party that ruins certain segments of our society. How sad! One of you Idiots on the left please tell me how voting Democrat has helped empower African Americans! Higher divorce rates, higher mortality rates, lower graduation rates,got to keep them dumb, Right, higher incarcination rates, over 70% fatherless homes, every year higher food stamp participation, higher unemployment rate, etc,etc, congrats Democrats and American Girl this is what Democrats do to African Americans, and now on to destroy the Latinos!

higher mortality rates,

Geo - Recent studies tell us your claims hold no water.

Life expectancy gap narrows between blacks, whites http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jun/05/science/la-sci-life-expectancy-gap-20120606

Mike - Who in the hell is trying to repeal Killing fetuses, and who in the hell won't let women get birth control. As far as same sex marriage, why does it have to be called marriage? Civil union is just fine, no? Mike give me names and legislation please not talking points!

@ Bill-Austin Truer words couldn't have been spoken, and you're SO spot on in saying the far right is Americas Taliban. Actually, I think they(the far right) is even worse. I wish more people in this country could walk with eyes wide open and a MIND wide open at the same time as you do. Congrats sir on a well spoken piece!

haha Geo... What is that? Your best imitation of J. Jonah Jamison at the Daily Bugle? While you were barfing out orders you missed "And where's that coffee!" and "By Gawd if I don't have those drafts on my desk in a minute somebody's getting fired, FIRED I tell you!!!"

Pretty outdated material you work with there geoceratops. The difference between up to date and extinct is really only a few years.

@Geo....why CAN'T they be called marriages? If it comes down to terminology, then make ALL, straight AND gay "marriages" be called just "civil unions" and see who jumps up and raises hell then. The far right is who, and why? Just to have it their way, nothing more. Frankly, regardless of my sexual orientation might be, if I find another person in my life that I love with the deepest love imaginable and commit to them and nobody else for the rest of my life, I'd prefer it be called marriage, not just what pleases the far right so they feel victorious over another group of people when we're all supposed to be equal, and if we're equal, why different labels or names for the exact same thing? It's the 21st century. You'd think humankind would have grown past this grade school stuff a century ago, but some cling on to the way of the Neanderthal for some reason. Go figure

@Geo. I know from demographics and all that, that the majority of blacks do vote Democrat. It didn't take a brain scientist to know this, and that Latinos tend to vote mostly Democratic as well. But in your lil spout at the mouth, it was about how the Democratic party is, ... hold on, I want to quote you so I get all your words and ya can't try to wiggle out of 'em "I feel very sorry for the Idiots like American Girl who can follow a party that ruins certain segments of our society. How sad! One of you Idiots on the left please tell me how voting Democrat has helped empower African Americans! Higher divorce rates, higher mortality rates, lower graduation rates,got to keep them dumb, Right, higher incarcination rates, over 70% fatherless homes, every year higher food stamp participation, higher unemployment rate, etc,etc, congrats Democrats and American Girl this is what Democrats do to African Americans, and now on to destroy the Latinos!"

So, how would any of them voting GOP have helped them? Would crime mysteriously vanish because they voted GOP? Would it have helped fathers stay home and raise their one wives children just by voting GOP? Graduation rates are about a moot point because most school aged kids aren't old enough to vote. Were you aware of that yet? lol Voting GOP would have created more jobs? Really? We had 8 years of Bush Jr, he was GOP, and about the only "more jobs created" were the military for two wars he shouldn't have gotten us into, and people that dig graves and build those marble headstones for the fallen. Eight years and under his GOP "leadership" it pretty much sucked, and I'm not sure what you're suckin' on right now, like maybe a bong emblazoned with GOP all over it, but you're one messed up person. Try the phone...help is only a call away, but before you call, explain how any of those groups voting GOP would have helped them in ANY single way

"geo" - It is painfully obvious that there is nothing in your wallet except a tattered pamphlet from some teabagger rally supported by an evangelical cult.

...But, I'll tell you what. You can shove your wallet up your happy place as soon as you stop using any and all infrastructure in the United States...which means should stop using the internet or be forced to admit that you are a lecherous hypocrite.

@Ron - Very good post:

The point the far right social conservatives are missing is, even though many people are personally socially conservative, most people do not think the government should be involved in these decisions. Also, the younger generations (those below about 45) actively support the liberal social viewpoints the social conservatives oppose.

The only point I disagree with is the suggestion that it is only the under-age-45 set who support liberal social viewpoints. I am nearly 60 and fully support the Democratic principals. My mother, who is 80, is a retired nurse and widow and is a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat.

The GOP is trying to whitewash their positions. They want to learn how to hide their true agenda behind seemingly moderate talking points for the sole purpose of getting elected. After that - watch out! They would try to sneak right back into our bedrooms and cram their fallacious religion down our throats.

The Who said it best ... "We won't get fooled again." We need to vote for a 100% Democratic ticket in the mid-terms and send the losers back to 1955.

geo-1957883

You go geo...keep the faith baby! We still need to finish the job in 2014 and Republicans like you will make it happen!

So much for "retooling" ROFLMAO!

"geo"....you are using public infrastructure funded by my tax dollars. Either stop or quit your whining about your stupid wallet.

Republicans' soul searching following the 2012 election could shortchange social conservatives,

how? They've been running the GOP for twenty years at least.

who say they're hardly to blame for the party's difficulties at the polls.

They can say they aren't to blame..... but they are, whether they can wrap their narrow little minds around it or not.

In two successive elections the GOP has gone even farther right than the election before, and they keep losing. Going even farther right again?

Suure. Keep going.

geo-1957883: Ursula - We'll get out of the bedroooms when you get out of our wallets. FAIR?

Shellie-657180: Pretty sure geo your wallet has nothing in it I need or want. Please remember, it's you and your "conservative" brethren belly aching how bad your life is not me. So how about YOU stop being so jealous of MY wallet.

So Shellie-657180, would you have any qualms in stopping taxpayer-funded abortions of convenience?
For the record, I’m an independent and don’t care what people do with their own lives.

Shockedanddisgusted: "geo" - It is painfully obvious that there is nothing in your wallet except a
tattered pamphlet from some teabagger rally supported by an evangelical cult.

...But, I'll tell you what. You can shove your wallet up your happy place as soon as you stop using
any and all infrastructure in the United States...which means should stop using the internet or be forced to admit that you are a lecherous hypocrite.

So Geo is peeved because his taxes are used to fund abortions of convenience, and Shockedanddisgusted thinks Geo should not be allowed to drive down the very highways and byways his taxes also pay for until
Geo relents to fund the happy-time mistakes of others. I thought this discussion was about kicking the social conservatives down the street and having the freedom to say what we can do with our own lives, which includes taking full responsibility.

We all pay taxes, in some form or another, hence we all get to play with the same toys purchased by those taxes. Speaking as an Independent, we all benefit from the highways, clean air and water, and good schools taxes provide, though maybe not directly. I’m also sure that the majority of the population, including Geo, would have no issues in funding abortions for victims of incest or violence, or to save the life of a woman. I’m in. It’s only common sense. But I’ve no interest in funding abortions for convenience any more than I have in funding tattoos and body art. If you want it get it. I buy a lot of CDs myself, but I won’t be sending you a bill for it. You do what you want with you own life, your own time, using your own body, and your own dime, and I’ll do the same with mine. You take care of YOU, and I’ll take care of ME. When we pass each other on the highway, bridges and sidewalks we’re both funding, we’ll wave and be grateful to be in a nation where such things are possible.

"Stay out of our wallets", really? Those of us in blue states have watched our tax dollars bleed to the red states for decades. AND, so far as we are helping fellow Americans, we do not, for the most part, complain. But for the pocket pickers to accuse us of the picking is a bit MUCH!

I used to consider myself a right-winger. I agreed with Republicans on economic issues, and the issues of government's role, but I agreed with Democrats more on social issues like same-sex marriage and women's rights. The only social issues I stand with Republicans on are gun rights, healthcare, and, to an extent, abortion (though certainly not as strongly as "social conservatives"). Therefore, I decided that I was a libertarian. I would encourage anyone with similar views to invenstigate the Libertarian party. They may be a third party, but there is always a chance that they could gain enough of the popular vote to become a mainstream party.

In addition to the bills they are trying to pass, take a look at the Ohio Supreme Court and State Medical Board appointments:

"Still, the two bills aren’t the only recent moves by Ohio Republicans to push an anti-abortion agenda. On Oct. 12, Kasich appointed Marshall Pitchford, a board member at Ohio Right to Life, to a committee in charge of filling a vacancy in the Ohio Supreme Court. On Oct. 29, Kasich appointed Mike Gonidakis, Ohio Right to Life president, to serve a five-year term on the State Medical Board of Ohio, which is in charge of the state’s medical regulations."

http://www.citybeat.com/cincinnati/article-26588-ohio_republicans_continue_anti_abortion_agenda.html

A couple republicans trying to sound moderate by softening their tone does not a Retooled GOP make.

Good Morning Jody,

To an extent, they will ratchet down their extremism for now, but the closer we get to the next election it will ramp up to a whole new level of bat-@!$%# crazy!

History has proven, they do NOT learn from past mistakes...

Good morning Feisty, Matthew!!

Matthew, good points. Too often voters pay more attention to the presidential election than they do their own state elections yet it is the state congresses which can have a much greater impact on our lives. The newly elected GOP IA House majority leader has declared that the first things he wants to do are: ban abortion, pass voter ID law, and a few other favorite social issues.

Iowa has their own version of OH's Sec of State Husted, our guy is named Shultz. Schultz failed in his efforts to suppress the vote, failed to prove voter fraud but now he thinks that we need "signature verification" because so many vote early. Because our Senate remains a slim Democratic majority, the far right agenda of Voter ID, banning abortion, etc. was blocked and will continue to be blocked. Dems also picked up more House seats so the GOP doesn't have as big a majority there.

Feisty, no, the right ignores their past mistakes by thinking if they try again, they'll get a different results. Reagan's trickle down tax cuts for the rich failed and Reagan threw the idea under the bus but that didn't stop Bush 43 from putting it on steroids to see if it would work this time--enter global economic collapse of 2008. Yet Romney/Ryan were running on a repeat of it.

i say social conservatives have no place at the table. they were sondly defeated in the election. america dosen't care what they have to say. just sit down and get out of the way. let the grown ups do the work and wait till we get rid of what's left of them.

The only reason the social conservatives want a seat at the table is so they can through a wrench in the decussions with their radicial ideas. their only ideas are to divide the country with their hate.

Hi, folks, and happy Thanksgiving. The proposed "fetal heartbeat" law is the same craziness that forced that Irish hospital to let a woman die because they couldn't perform the abortion until the heartbeat of her miscarried fetus stopped. If the social conservatives have their way, there will be incidents like that in this country, too. These people are the opposite of "pro-life." They are really more ofa death cult that offers human sacrifices to their deity.

The proposed "fetal heartbeat" law is the same craziness that forced that Irish hospital to let a woman die because they couldn't perform the abortion until the heartbeat of her miscarried fetus stopped.

And conservatives in the USA haven't learned to moderate their tone. They might just be able to get abortion out-lawed if they just included exemptions for life of the mother. They might be able to sell that to the general public. Instead they seem to be going the other way and have been suggesting removing exemptions for rape or incest. Reasonable folks don't buy into this extremism.

The problem as I see it is not just that some folks wish to outlaw abortion directly, they are going after it via regulations and defunding also. The TRUELY sad part is that outlawing it or regulating it out of existence is not that the abortions will stop, it's that we will return to the back-alley-coat-hanger era.

Then to try to limit birth control also is simply creating more welfare families. Of course, with the desired reduction in social safety nets we'll have more homeless, etc.

Add to that the desire to gut the EPA, the FDA, and public schools . . .

It almost makes one think that the ultimate goal is to effectively return us to a "dawn of the industrial age" style society. Coal smokestakes in the cities, beggars on every street, prostitution required for single mothers to get money for food for their children, etc.

Conservatives values "Gridlock" lame-duck, waste of tax payers money, good old Boys !!!

Feisty redhead said...

"To an extent, they will ratchet down their extremism for now, but the closer we get to the next election it will ramp up to a whole new level of bat-@!$%# crazy!

History has proven, they do NOT learn from past mistakes..."

I whole-heartedly agree!! There is a huge difference between "learning a lesson and changing your ways" and "pretending to be different to lure the unsuspecting and forgetful."

Funny that they build a platform on three legs though. Sounds dangerous. I guess the real trick if you want them to get back down to earth safely will be to see that those ever-shortening legs shrink at the same rate... I dont think they can pull that off. They'll probably try to lose one and balance their platform on the remaining two as they cordially invite everyone to climb aboard.

BTW... Did anyone catch the Tea Party darling Governor Nikki Haley pointing her bony finger toward the federal Gubment for not ordering S.C. revenue dept. to encrypt Social Security numbers? Apparently when states rights become states wrongs you need big government and more oversight. Even the tea party doesn't believe in the tea party.

We simply must confirm the definition of the word 'politics' altogether. I don't know when it happened, but politics is not about marriage, or contraceptives, or abortion or lifestyle. Politics is just the science of government: taxes, defense, economy, etc etc. The article clearly stated that Republicans HAVE to get our of our lives and our bedrooms. Someone must tell them the definition of politics.

Reagan's trickle down tax cuts for the rich failed and Reagan threw the idea under the bus but that didn't stop Bush 43 from putting it on steroids to see if it would work this time--enter global economic collapse of 2008. Yet Romney/Ryan were running on a repeat of it.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

Matthew-2771918: The problem as I see it is not just that some folks wish to outlaw abortion
directly… via regulations and defunding also. The TRUELY sad part is …we will return to the back-alley-coat-hanger era.

Really Matthew? What…? “Look Bob! There’s a gal standing in the Aly with a hanger in her you know what.” I think the last election proved our nation as a whole has progressed far enough to prevent this.

Matthew-2771918: Then to try to limit birth control also is simply creating more welfare families.

I suppose forced sterilization would eliminate this problem all together? No Mat, welfare families are cause by poverty which is (big word) “synonymous” with “no money.” Larger families living in poverty do have a much harder time trying to make ends meet, but throwing pills and condoms at
them will not make them rich. They need opportunity, which can only come from a combination of education, training, and a viable economy. Birth control helps stabilize the social foundation, but only opportunity will bring them out of poverty; and that includes even small families.

Matthew-2771918: Of course, with the desired reduction in social safety nets we'll have more homeless, etc. Add to that the desire to gut the EPA, the FDA, and public schools . . .

Matthew, your comments are absolutely laughable. What fantasy game room are you living in? I’m guessing the public schools in your area were gutted long ago.

Matthew-2771918: It almost makes one think that the ultimate goal is to effectively return us to a "dawn of the industrial age" style society. Coal smokestakes in the cities, beggars on every street, prostitution required for single mothers to get money for food for their children, etc.

Matthew, I have to admit you surprised me with this one. Seems like you’ve been reading the UN funded publication “Agenda 21” which is promoted by the US State Department and backed by a number of Executive Orders…some of which have been put into place over the last four years. Of course, the actual agenda does not include “smokestacks,” and there are going to be a lot less mothers (and less children) if this ever goes into effect. But you're on track with this one.

CEW - if you have facts to debate my points, feel free to discuss them.

Fact 1 - If abortions are outlawed or made impossible to legally get, then abortions will not stop. Only other means will be used. Pretty sad when you don;t realize this.

Fact 2 - eliminating access to birth control means more unexpected pregnancies and children. You even acknowledge that larger families are more difficult to care for. What you fail to acknowledge is the increase in single head-of-household families will increase as well as the numbers of children. They WILL need assistance.

Fact 3 - the Republicans campaigned on reducing the social safety nets. They did NOT provide a rational or factual means of "increasing opportunity" to substitute.

Fact 4 - the US is a signatory to Agenda 21 (bringing countries into the 21st Century). Conspiracy theorists claim that this is an attack on individual property rights. If anything I would think that you would realize the repugnance that court cases such as Kelo v. New London created clearly demonstrate that personal property rights are live and well in our country.

IF you are a conspiracy theorist, Agenda 21 is "more proof" of the BS statement that President Obama is a socialist. However, you would be failing to acknowledge that Agenda 21 was signed onto by the US in 1992 and we had at elast one-two term Republican President since then . . . or maybe he was a socialist also since he didn't personally repudiate it?

Lastly, your attack on me is sad and laughable at the same time. You choosing to personally attack someone that has a different perspective than yourself is simply an attempt at internet bullying.

Good day, CEW. Enjoy the holiday weekend.

The GOP needs to retool the whackos right out of the party.

Then, maybe, I'll consider voting for them again.

Me too. But they've effectively eliminated moderate republicans from the House and are working on it in the Senate. I won't vote for them while they're too far right.

those (anti)social Konservatives aren't called AMERICAN TALIBAN for NOTHING...

Who can even trust their "re-tooling" at this point? The teabaggers ran on a platform of strict fiscal responsibility and it turned out that they had no idea how or no intention to do anything about the economy. Their only intention was to push through radical social reforms that would set the country back 100 years.

The teabaggers lied and the Republicans embraced them. Until the Republicans apologize for pandering to the brainwashed fascists and actually help with the job of RUNNING our country, they deserve the humiliating defeats that will be handed to them.

I like how social conservatives think they lost because social conservatism wasnt at the forefront when in fact they lost because of it. All those wonderful rape comments they had really made a difference. LOL

Matthew, well said. They have a right to a seat at the table, just not the right to demand and shove their beliefs on the rest of us because they do not hold the majority view.

advocate for the inclusion of the Church into the State

It doesn't go one way. Include the Church into the State and suddenly the State is involved in the Church. I don't think social conservatives understand how much they don't want this to happen.

@Pragmatic

The true social conservatives do firmly believe that the church/state prohibition only goes one way. Their position is that it only prevents government with interfering with the church; not the other way around. If you ask them they'll actually tell you this.

The constitution only counts when it solidifies their believes Matthew, everything else in their eyes is unconstitutional. They think they want a dictatorship, they just don't realize they won't be the dictator, they'll be the ones being told what to do by their dictator.

Mo, For now that seems to be "Dictator Obama" according to you liberals .... you seem to think his every utterance should be law with no consideration for the long-term effects on our country. Obama has guided this country to an increase of $5.2+ trillion in national debt while never seeing to it that a BUDGET was passes.

Now, Trumka is giving Bam-Bam his marching orders that he must hold the line and CONTINUE the out-of-control spending ! By the time Obama is done, he will have more than doubled the national debt !!

TO: Matthew-2771918 who wrote:

"Yes, they "deserve a seat at the table."

But they and all politicians and political parties need to remember that: our country has a separation of Church and State; all individuals are entitled to the Right of Privacy, and; the law must treat individuals equally..."

Now you see there, you made perfect sense, and Republicans don't like that.

No sooner than they walk in the room, their first utterance would be "there is NO separation of Church and State; very few individuals are entitled to the Right of Privacy; and everybody was not meant to be treated equally."

The church is already infiltrated by the state....has been for a long time. Marriage is civil, tithes are tax write offs, clergy have confidentiality rights.....that the existing laws of the land should have an impact on sub-groups within the nation is how it should work. It's only a problem when one sub-group is treated differently under the law. To legislate from the pulpit would be one such difference that the constitution does not allow for. Want to have a grand-slam conservative position? Easy, the freedom to posses and consume pot is fundamental to all freedoms, the impact the restrictive laws have on our individuals and families is immoral, the money to pay for all this oppression could be put to better uses. Let the individual have the choice without threat of the government wasting resources investigating and tearing our lives apart. From their core policy positions it looks like a no brain'r from over here in the middle.

TO: Matthew-2771918 who wrote:

"Yes, they "deserve a seat at the table."

But they and all politicians and political parties need to remember that: our country has a separation of Church and State; all individuals are entitled to the Right of Privacy, and; the law must treat individuals equally..."

Now you see there, you made perfect sense, and Republicans don't like that.

No sooner than they walk in the room, their first utterance would be "there is NO separation of Church and State; very few individuals are entitled to the Right of Privacy; and everybody was not meant to be treated equally."

Apparently American Girl-724855 knows my sister who recently said this very thing to me! Add to this that the separation of church and state is of the devil and you have the whole pitch! lol/sigh

I'll be on and off today - crazy busy and trying to get out of the office before late! To everyone - have a safe and Happy Thanksgiving!

To all the little turkeys - run!!!!! Oh probably a little late for that! :-(

they only deserve a seat at the table IF (and ONLY IF) they are INVITED by the REST of the party (assuming that the others aren't too goddam SCARED to LAUGH in their mealy mouthed FACES - and, yes, I INTENSELY dislike them)

jim-1455434

Mo, For now that seems to be "Dictator Obama" according to you liberals .... you seem to think his every utterance should be law with no consideration for the long-term effects on our country. Obama has guided this country to an increase of $5.2+ trillion in national debt while never seeing to it that a BUDGET was passes.

Right - its the presidents fault the house and senate wont reconcile a budget and send it back to him for approval. WTF are you drinking?

Meanwhile, here in Michigan, the GOP state house is considering giving status to a fetus over 12 weeks old for the parent to qualify for a tax break. Attention Loony Tunes conservatives - we know what you are up to here. This is a prime example of how their personal attitudes and beliefs color their political agenda. And it is wrong.

Matthew-2771918: Those politicians or parties that advocate against equal rights..., and advocate for violation of the Right to Privacy are in effect placing their personal beliefs above the Constitution and existing supportive laws.

In case you haven’t noticed, your rights have been significantly curtailed by executive orders and numerous laws passed over the last 10 years; initiated by Reps and Dems alike, and signed into law and issued by both the Bush and the Obama Administrations. And there is more fun to come.

Severed Head in a Jar,

"The true social conservatives do firmly believe that the church/state prohibition only goes one way. Their position is that it only prevents government with interfering with the church; not the other way around. If you ask them they'll actually tell you this."

Sounds exactly like the Iranian government, doesn't it? The American Taliban, or Tea Party group follows their suit quite well in fact.

Laugh if you wish to, but Matthew is exactly right, and evidently the electorate increasingly agrees with him.

DNFTT

No, they need to retool, if they can. The GOP has become the 'message' and their attempts to make it palatable for general elections just makes them look confused to their 'base' voters and isn't fooling the rest of us anymore. And it's not just the 'social conservatives' that are the problem, although they're the infection that's poisoned most of the party; it's the 'evangelical' belief that permeates all the GOP positions that only they hold the answers and no compromise is needed or allowed.

But their biggest problem is that while there's still some sane adults in the GOP, they have cynically lied to and used their base for so long that if they start telling the truth now, their base will turn on them. You saw this in their congressional primaries, with the loss of moderate, general-election-ready candidates to TP/Christian Right extremists who then lost the general election.

They created this monster and have lost control of it, pure and simple....

To your point Debbie how did that delving into social conservative issues work out for Komen and Chick-fil-a?

Komen got their a$$es handed to them, Chicky is a fast food company - assuming the furor has died down, they are probably no better or no worse off than before (I don't like their overpriced product, but I rarely eat fast food so I'm not a good sounding board).

You have no idea what Republicans truly stand for ... with the National Debt at $16 trillion++, most Republicans believe having a BUDGET is a wise plan for the future. Obama has never had one.

If our country goes BANKRUPT, none of the social issues means "SQUAT" ... total chaos will ensue !

Based on the last election I am pretty sure the GOP is focused on redefining rape and hating gay people, but feel free to correct me if I missed something.

Cal - nope! You got it right!

TO: Bruce -848280 who wrote:

"Republicans stand for personal responsibility..."

You gotta be kiddin me.

We are STILL waiting for Mitt Robme to take as much "personal responsibility" for his loss and he would have taken if he had won, and he just can't do it.

We are also STILL waiting for George "Curveball" Bush to take personal responsibility for the messes HE made, and HE just won't do it.

We even watched on TV as GWB proclaimed himself to be "The Decider" and STILL Republicans don't even expect him to accept any kind of "personal responsibility" for any of the horrible decisions that he made OR the resulting harm GWB put upon the American People!

Republicans don't actually believe in "personal responsibility" at all, what they REALLY mean to say is, "every man for himself".

jim-1455434

I suggest you take a course in basic Civics. All spending and revenue legislation originates in the US House of Representatives. That includes the Federal Budget. The Republican Party currently controls the House. I suggest you contact your "Republican" Member of the House and demand they work on the Budget instead of attempting to repeal the ACA (for the 35th time).

TO: Bruce -848280 who wrote:

"Republicans stand for ... smaller government..."

I also take issue with Republicans standing for "smaller government" because a whole lot of Republicans got their up-start with the help of "government" and OUR American Taxpayer dollars, including BOTH Mitt Romney AND Paul Ryan.

OlCroc, I suggest YOU take a course in Civics ... the President is to submit a budget proposal, it goes to the House where a budget is to be passed, then on to the Senate for their version to be passed .... and from there, the President usually works with both the House and Senate to hammer out the details !

Obama has submitted budget proposals SO BAD .... that NO ONE in the Democratic Party even voted to support ! LOL !! The House has then passed BUDGETS (several times) only to be sent to the Senate where Obama's henchman Harry Reid puts them under his bony a$$ ... totally removed from consideration !

Now, if Obama were a TRUE LEADER, he would get his fellow party member (Harry), to lift up his butt, wipe off the "butt-prints" and get to work on actually PASSING a Senate version. The reality is that Obama really does not want to be confined by a budget ! That is why nothing has been done !!

jim-1455434

Now, if Obama were a TRUE LEADER, he would get his fellow party member (Harry), to lift up his butt, wipe off the "butt-prints" and get to work on actually PASSING a Senate version. The reality is that Obama really does not want to be confined by a budget ! That is why nothing has been done !!

I see. So in Republican land the President of the United States and the entire Democratic Party should simply cave in to Republican demands...Wait for it.

Jim must be a "my way or the hiway" Konservative. Sure sounds like one of "them"

jim-1455434

OlCroc, I suggest YOU take a course in Civics ... the President is to submit a budget proposal, it goes to the House where a budget is to be passed, then on to the Senate for their version to be passed .... and from there, the President usually works with both the House and Senate to hammer out the details !

Jimbo...did you know there is a difference between a budget proposal and a budget? All a proposal is, is a suggestion. A Budget is a full-blown, line by line piece of legislation...constructed by the US House of Representatives. You admit your self the President submitted one. That puts the turd squarely in the pockets of the member of the House of Representatives...and who controls them?

jim-1455434

OlCroc, I suggest YOU take a course in Civics ... the President is to submit a budget proposal, it goes to the House where a budget is to be passed, then on to the Senate for their version to be passed .... and from there, the President usually works with both the House and Senate to hammer out the details !

So you yourself admit the stupidity of your comment that the fact that there is no budget is not Obama's fault? Obama has submitted a budget every year. The senate and house have yet to reconcile and send it back to him. The fact that the house and senate cannot produce a budget is not indicative of Obama not submitting a budget. Christ you people are true critical thinkers arent you? No wonder no one listens to you people anymore.

You left out Republicans will spend billions to deceive, and even brainwash the American public, bearing false witness about our President, to gain votes. Every ad they bought were lies. The billion $ spent on this campaign could have helped the Hurricane Sandy Victims, or have gone toward our deficit. If the republican politicians would set aside their greed agenda, there is no telling what GOOD could be accomplished. There are unemployed from the economic crises still waiting for jobs. There are unemployed because of Bain Capital's companies liquidating and outsourcing that need new jobs. The upper percent got their extended Bush tax cuts, so where are the jobs???? ...and they want to still hold Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid hostage for another extended Bush tax cut. I say NOTHING DOING. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid are earned and are necessary to help retirees keep up with inflation. Not everyone was born into a billionaire family that never really worked a day in their life. Democrats like to earn and pay their own way. Those willing to work hard and acquire education deserve to be able to earn the American Dream, for it to actually be attainable. Nothing in the constitution says rights belong only to billionaires, nothing in our constitution says only middle class pays taxes, and that billionaires don't pay their fair share in taxes. Caring about our truly poor is a virtue, they are a very low percentage. Now there are dead beats living off of the government that need to clean their act up and get a job and support themselves. There ya go, that's a job, hire people to find all the dead beats.

I should have placed in my response that it was directed to Cal #11.2

To Bruce #11

I do not consider ALEC Republican politicians creating on average 1,000 bills every year to be small government, or Koch Republican politicians and Supreme Justices passing bills to allow corporations the same rights as the American people small government. By the way, everyone be sure to sign Al Franken's petitions. Immediate urgency is that we need to sign Al Franken's petition for Net Neutrality THE First Amendment issue of our time. If you want to protect the free flow of information in the country and stop Corporate Takeover of our media, because they are coming after the internet. ALSO please sign to reverse Citizens United .vs. FEC

I do not think the Republican party should be crushed, back of the bus is good. I do think they should lose the Tea Party, they are a very bad idea. I think government should NOT be in our personal lives, this is America. I pray all will be fine for America pertaining to the Fiscal Cliff, and that when President Obama leaves in 2016 we will get another good President. I prefer not to be afraid of our government. This election was unreal, it really frightened me. I am so thankful Obama won. To go through something like this election again in only 4 years, i.e. 2016 makes me sick. This is my first election ever that I had the time to be able to pay close to full attention to. I finally reached retirement this year, YEAH! I am thankful for having had a long successful career, I am tired and worn out.

I do wish to delete my 3 posts.

I do not know enough about government, I have done a lot of research and have learned a lot over these past 18 months. I did enjoy reading some of these posts here, some gave me avenues to look up, and some made me laugh out loud from sharing same point of view. I hope everyone had a Happy Thanksgiving. ...I am a Christian, so I am not ashamed to say: God Bless You All, and God Bless America. I won't cram that down anyone's throats, but just letting you know, that is a good sentiment to us all.

and just think - he is being touted as a possible PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE. There's talk of Frothy santoum running again and the others, too Gingrich? Bachman? (Who were the other prominent IDIOTS in 2012? - so soon we forget the amusement of national elections...)

And why not add some liberals to that cage? We all want equality.

Liberals are too smart for that - it takes a REPUBLICAN to ride on the roof. they are just that STUPID

Yes they deserve a deat at the table - the children's table.

Wow, some really intelligent responses there alan. I suspect you are pouting in that cage right there with them.

End the Fed

So you'd rather see the banking system completely controlled by the big banks. Gee, that didn't work to well during the global financial meltdown. Thanks but no thanks, I don't want the world banking systems run by Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, and CitiBank.

I hear this Battle Cry of Republicans--End the Fed. Something I never hear them explain is why and what purpose it would serve. Go ahead, static, explain to all WHY ending the Fed has merit and explain what would be gained by doing so.

Jody, if the fed were unilaterally eliminated it would create such a global economic turmoil as to make the last recession look like a mini-blip on the radar. Since the common international currency is the dollar this action would negatively impact EVERY market immediately.

It would put us at a severe economic disadvantage in gloabl business negotiations against countries who still have their own central banks. It would effectively be a unilateral economic disarmament.

It would directly undercut the ability of the US to fund ANY of its programs - from military to all social services.

It would effectively force us to immediately default on ALL loans to anyone (and I'll point out the largest holder of US debt is are American citizens). We would immediately drop to a MUCH lower credit rating with every major evaluator. (This is why Rep. Paul's stance on ending the fed is an inflationary stance.)

Adam Smith, in his book Weath of Nations, that so many folks like to reference freely acknowledges the unique and vital role that banks play. And the impact they have on society. To deny this role by "ending the fed" is to deny history, society, and economic realities.

Great points Jody/Matthew, and well said. While people love to spout off 'close the Fed', the never think through the consequences of such calls to action. It has about as much merit as saying shut down the Pentagon.

Only in republicans land does handing the entire system over to the private sector render a viable choice.

Comments4u2: Wow, some really intelligent responses there alan. I suspect you are pouting in that cage right there with them.Comments4u2

I take it you would rather our nation’s finances be run by a private corporation that refuses to be audited, reports to and is accountable to no one, has caused more economic problems with its tinkering of the economy than any other bank, thereby giving us the housing bubble, prolonged recessions through manipulation of interest rates, bailouts that will never be recovered, a devalued dollar, and billions in European bank debts that have yet to be realized? It is the FED we are talking about.

Matthew-2771918 to Jody, Iowa: Jody, if the fed were unilaterally eliminated it would create…global economic turmoil…negatively impact EVERY market immediately…put us at a severe economic disadvantage…undercut the ability of the US to fund ANY of its programs…force us to immediately default on ALL loans to anyone (and I'll point out the largest holder of US debt is are American citizens). We would immediately drop to a MUCH lower credit rating with every major evaluator.

Actually,

- We are $16T in debt and climbing, and we and the rest of the world are already in economic turmoil as a result of monetary games played over the last 50 years by the FED and its partnering banks and financial institutions;
- We are entering a new age of economic trials where we are going to be at an economic disadvantage, particularly as our debt continues to rise and competitors gain control of resources and markets around the world, including ours;
- We are already getting ready to make massive cuts to our programs, and must if many are to survive;
- Our credit rating has been devalued, and will continue to fall under the guidance of the FED and our current spending policies;
- And inflation is coming.

Yes, the dollar is the current global standard, because in the past we had a handle, somewhat, on our debt and spending. But now our creditors are starting to wonder if they will ever get the value they lent us back as we continue to print money like it actually does grow on trees. Just like anything else, the more there is of it, the less valuable it has. In simple terms, every dollar printed is nothing more than a promisary note issued by the Govt entitling the bearer to property equal to the value they hold. When the Govt gives out more notes than it has in property, the notes have to worth less...there is no more property. Should Iran ever convince OPEC to stop accepting the Dollar for oil in favor of the Euro, we will be screwed. In fact, if any one stops accepting dollars, there may be a run on the bank the likes of which no one has ever seen. As for the debt owed to the American citizens...good luck.

Oh, and as for Adam Smith’s book regarding the, “unique and vital role that banks play.” He was talking about good solid banks, utilizing credible monetary practices, not the manipulative activities the FED has
been using to tinker with the economy in an effort to manipulate markets and pick winners and losers. Badly run, unprofitable companies go broke every day, and should. That is how consumers pick the winners and losers.

CEW -

We ARE in debt. That had little to nothing to do with the fed. It had to do with the tax/spend policies by our government. You position "that over the last 50 years" is questionable as we were on track to a surplus because of the tax/spend position from President Clinton's administration. You can't blame a bank for the customer having issues. Note that the debt, while it will continue to rise for a bit, is being addressed.

We ARE in a global market. It's a given that other countries have their own resources and capacities. Our competitors already have control of resources. Countries that have their own Fed have the spend/loan/economic re-balancing capacity that exceeds ANY single "normal" bank. Your end the fed would put us at an immediate competitive disadvantage with any of those countries (and the EU).

Credit rating was devalued specifically because of the inability of Congress to deal with the deficit. No other reason. Again, NOT a Fed issue. It was a fed customer issue.

Inflation always comes. It's cyclical. Ending the fed will NOT stop that.

OPEC will not stop accepting the US dollar. They like the universal currency AND we are one of their largest purchasers.

Adam Smith WAS referring to banks. He also discussed that bankers must be kept from manipulating the system (gee, like that hasn't happened recently??). Note that having a federal reserve system also keeps the US from creating an unfair competitive advantage by effectively favoring one bank over another by using it as the depository/repository for tax dollars.

Ending the fed WOULD bankrupt many private US citizens and businesses. It would unilaterally turn us into a third world nation financially.

Respectfully CEW, IMO your position is comparing oranges, bananas, and grapefruits with apples. Yes they are fruits, but I believe that your statements are not fully germain with the comparative economic facts. Great talking points, but not real.

Slight correction to one of my statements. It should read "In this case, you can't blame the bank for the customer having issues." My reference is to the fed NOT being unilaterally responsible for the tax/spend policies of the US.

There are cases where private banks have created issues for customers. The US deficit is not one of them.