Personally, I think the US needs to go off the fiscal cliff. We need to start paying for what we want, and stop borrowing against future generations. Going off the fiscal cliff will hurt in the short term, but I think we will be better off in the long term.

Let's let ALL of the Bush tax cuts expire.

Yes it will be all BoneHeads fault. BUT, seriously I hope they can all check the Egos at the door and get it done. Everyone has worked too hard to let this slide backwards. Time to think whats best for America.

Blame? I would be giving them credit. I'm prepared to suck up the pain if it puts this country on a sound financial footing.

@ geo-1957883, do you even know that it is the House of Representatives JOB to make up the governments budgets? Last time I looked, that was the GOP's majority. They then get voted on, sent to the Senate, voted on, and reworked, then sent back too the House to be re-voted on the new changes. So to even talk about the President not making a budget, would be like bitching that it's the Presidents fault that gas is expensive, because he has ABSOLUTELY, nothing to do with it. If you think that is a lie, please refer to your Ex-President Bush talk about that issue.

We have already fallen off the cliff.....15 trillion ways.

@Caesar, have you forgotten Obama's offer to Boehner that for every $2.50 in spending cuts, he wants $1 in revenues (mostly tax increase on wealthy). Boehner's response: "Nope". If nothing else, Obama definitely is willing to comprimise to the point his own base is/was mad at him. But that's what it takes. Now we need the GOP to get in line and do the same. No one will get everything they want, neither party... it's time both parties realize this and work together.

Layton, you have a good job and the kids are gone with a paid off mortgage. Any you are bitchin about your taxes?? Yeah, you probably wipe with 20's so I hardly feel sorry for you if your taxes go up. Try the single moms or senior eating catfood because they have to pay for medicine. You need a reality check dude..........

Almost 300 members of the Senate and Congress (99% Republicans and three Democrats) have signed a PLEDGE TO a Lobbyist named Grover Norquist. This is treason. They all signed this pledge saying they would never raise any taxes for any reason. This is why they have been filibustering and voting no to real bills and sending the Senate nonsense bills. They swore an OATH to the United States of America. Grover Norquist has a Palestinian Muslim wife. What dynamic could this play in our security? There is a list online of the members of OUR U>S> Congress who have signed the Norquist Pledge. Until their constituents emails, call and write to them and tell them they are going to lose their jobs in 2014 unless they break the Pledge to Norquist, nothing we want is going to happen. He really took power of Congress in 2010. Some of them lost their reelection this year and one resigned. But, there are still around 250 of them who do whatever Norquist tells them to do. He even goes to what are supposed to be closed committee meetings and tells them how to vote.

James lotsanumbers wrote:

"California is now completely controlled by Democractic majority...there is no possible way for Republicans to block anything."

That's great news. Go learn some history. Governor Brown will get the job done. Republicans have worked very hard to destroy California. The model of obstruction they used thanks to Proposition 13 has been adopted by Republicans at the national level. Unprecedented debt is the inevitable result.

Both Governor Brown and President Obama understand numbers, something that is beyond the grasp of Republicans. That's not partisanship. The facts clearly show Republicans have no idea how budgets are balanced. My money - literally - is on Democrats.

AG, are you willing to "suck it up" if it puts 2 million people out of work?

Would you really?

Time for Norquist to ride off into the sunset. He and his posse have done enough damage to our economy.

Republicans are concerned about losing certain demographics (Latinos, etc), but their real problem is their stand on issues like fair taxes, capitalism for the poor with socialism for the rich and general destruction of a working middle-class whose economic demand supports job creation.

Look at the picture Eric Cantor is asleep at the wheel, nothing new there!

Kristin: Yes. What's the alternative? Continued endless spending that ends up destroying the whole country? How many people would be out of work then?

@geo1957883: Let's not confuse passing a budget with submitting a budget. The President has submitted a budget every year. It is the responsibility of the United States Congress to pass it. Any thoughts as to where the blame should lie in not passing it?

Well, folks it's time for a reality check. The American people already blame the GOP for the gridlock in Congress and it stands to reason if we fail to reach an agreement on the Bush Tax cuts, etc before the deadline it WILL be the GOP's fault.

President Obama has already indicated he is willing to talk. But he insists that the rich pay their fair share. The Speaker of the House has already drawn a line in the sand saying his party will not budge on increased taxes for the wealthy. So, there you have it. Gridlock and it will be viewed as being the GOP's fault.

Plain and simple.

Now the GOP apologists can say that it's all the President's fault or the President wouldn't negotiate in good faith, but the bottom line is the majority of Americans are already blaming the GOP for the nation's problems (as reflected in the vote last Tuesday) and they will blame the GOP for any failure to reach an agreement prior to the deadline.

That's just a fact. Read it and weep.

Or...you could instruct your leaders to shut up and negotiate. Now there's an idea....

@trust2112 -- It is not the House's sole responsibility on the budget. The process is the president presents a budget and the House and Senate budget committees come up with a budget resolution.

I for one would like to see the Republicans negotiate since I believe spending cuts -- real spending cuts not future reduction of spending increases -- be part of the overall plan. But if that doesn't happen, the Republicans should not vote NO and they should not filibuster. They should only vote present so they can't be blamed for voting for policies that will devastate this country nor be blamed for standing in the way.

One area in which to start this process is for the name calling and blame game being played already. That scares the left more than anything else. If the Republicans stand down, then there is no one to blame. We are way past President Bush.

psssst....read the Constitution spanky...the CONGRESS has control for the purse strings, they pass budgets or not....good ole boy Mitch said in 2009, that the GOP's ONLY goal would be to make sure Obama was a one term President...period. Eriskin-Bowells would have been LAW, there would be NO fiscal cliff today, if the GOP hadn't walked out and refused to pass it..which was written as a total compromise to the GOP in the first place. I'm betting the GOP will force U.S. off the cliff...just for spite against the duely elected President of the United States, American be damned. So get ready to throw the bums out in 2014!

Is that the new face of the 3 stooges, Blondie, Larry, and Moe?

Republicans have been doing everything in their power to cause trouble in every way that they possibly could because they believed that it was in their best political interests to do so.

Republicans, you failed miserably!

It's time to start putting America first, instead of Grover Nordquist!

So I heard Kristol on FoxNews saying YES we should tax the wealthy.

So I heard Ben Stein on FoxNews saying U.S. has to tax the wealthy.

Are they liberals???? Just joined the Democratic Party???? NO - but now they are singing a different tune that they should have sang before the elections. They all knew that this is what has to be done.

These arrogant statements like "It's my way or the highway!", only induce the voters of the US to become more divided. Where's the compromise that the parties were going to try to achieve? Get real and try to solve our problems!! Stop the BS "I am now incharge and you will do what my party says we will do." Be civil and try compromising and moving our country foward for once during this next four years. At least do it for our future generations! I'm tired of listening to this political BS bickering.

Oh yeah - Norquist calling Romney "Poopy head"? I mean is he deranged, back to elementary school or what. And the Republicans bowing down to this man. Time to unleash Norquist the lobbyist.

They should cut even more federal spending. Defense should be cut to pre-9/11 levels, which is a 50% cut from what it is now. Bring everybody home and quit wasting money on stupid wars. Like we need to keep tens of thousands US troops in Germany, Korea, and Japan... wake up and demand this WASTE OF MONEY by the military be finished!

I hope we go over the cliff so Hillary Rhodam Clinton WINS with EASE in 2016

No one has been consistently on the wrong side of History like the freken Republicans.

They have been wrong on just about every issue that pertains to average folks its not even funny

Its time to disband this illegal committee of misdirected ignorant hillbillies and rednecks that serves no interest to the American people...

We are tired of a bunch of folks with big gums and no teeth telling us what to do

Hillary Clinton 2016

If the Republicans won't work with the President now-I'd like to know how to start a campaign to march on Congress(especially the House) demanding they do the job they were elected to do. They call Obama the most divisive President, etc.-but when they state their main goal is to see that Obama is not reelected, & one Rep. even openly states she thinks Obama's birth certificate is a forgery-who are the ones that are divisive, not to mention the most hateful & openly disrespectful members of Congress in history? Get a clue, people-we need to do something to let especially the House know it's time to do their job before their tactics drive us into a Depression!

Don't worry GNOP we will know who to blame. YOU can resist trying to make President Obama fail. We know it and will organize to vote you crazy MF out of office promptly. I bet the house repuks will regret following your stans on no taxes for the richest amoungust us not matter what the cost.

the grand obstructionist poopies

They are all to blame repubs and democraps alike. They aren't working in our interests anymore. The whole city of DC is corrupt and sucking off the public tit and not going to give up on that. It's the same people screwing US all for the last 40 yrs, just in different positions.

"Poopyhead?" Really? Seriously? "POOPYHEAD?"

And the GOP kowtows to this genius?

Wow, that is incredible, just incredible.

Well, I think Grover Norquist is a poopyhead. In fact he may be the poopiest poopyhead!

Blame? I would be giving them credit. I'm prepared to suck up the pain if it puts this country on a sound financial footing.

Problem with that is, we who know how to handle our money and ARE fiscally responsible will have to pay for the idiots who AREN'T and who bought things they knew they couldn't afford, as well as for the entitlement leeches. It's the equivalent helping a pirate who is drowning but wants to hijack your ship.

TO: Jo Ann-666954 who wrote:

"When you have the liberal media not explaining the whole truth of course the blame will go to the GOP..."

We have heard with our own ears what Republicans Mitch McConnell, cry-baby Boehner, Cantor, and a bunch of RWNJs have said out of their own mouths, and it was traitorous.

It's not up to "the liberal media" to make the case for Republican sabotage. Republicans know very well how to do their own "dirty work".

The Democrats were the only ones trying to work out a deal. The Republicans kept changing their minds and renigging.

Not much the pres or the Democrats can do when the Republicans vote No against every single thing.

@patiowa -- Actually Simpson Bowles did not have 4 democrat and 3 republican votes out of the 18-person committee. To pass Simpson Bowles needed THREE MORE YES VOTES. So who really had the power?

Caesar: "I understand you would love to see the GOP extinct for all intents"

Then you understand little. If you'd bothered to read my first post, you would see me giving credit to the Republicans (Tea Party, actually) for giving us the fiscal cliff in the first place. It's a poor way to address our fiscal problems, but it's the only way we've managed to come up with. We can't continue the way we have been.

Fifty-three percent of Americans said Republicans in Congress would be more to blame in that instance, according to a Pew Research Center poll conducted in the days following the election.

Looks kinda like the election results. 53% of Americans want more deficit spending. I wonder where I can get a government job? A man's gotta eat. If you can't beat em join em.

Hey, I've got an idea... Let's borrow more money to keep from going off the "fiscal cliff" this year. And, next year let's do the same thing!

We could do this forever....Right?

It will always be somebody else's fault... That's what I love about this country!!! Admit nothing/deny everything!

Always depends on what the definition of is..is!

TO: HOTTICKET-2304234 who wrote:

"... we who know how to handle our money and ARE fiscally responsible will have to pay for the idiots who AREN'T and bought things they knew they couldn't afford..."

This isn't about our own household budgets, this is about Republicans lying us into 2 unfunded wars that they don't want to pay for, and how Republicans are trying to protect the rich in favor of robbing the poor.

Where is Alfred E. Neuman when we need him?

Caesar Augustus, is that a Texas Twang I hear in your post?

It's getting boring beating the Republicans on a daily basis.

All of you step back and think about the quote that everyone uses "you must pay your fair share". Well if you pay no taxes then I think you are not paying your fair share. So you think that your share is nothing? All of our children and grandchildren are going to be effected by all of this borrowing and overspending weather you are poor or rich. I know everyone wants to say the rich need to pay it all. Well I think more of all of us need to stand up and say lets fix the problem. Lets act like grown-ups and not pass this buck on to others. America will not become a better nation unless all of its people become better people.

Ain't enough money, cliff or no cliff. I'm sure EU politicians are going through the same motions. Is it helping them any with their debt?

I really don't see how the Republicans in the House are going to pull it off. It will take about 5+ days to get a budget though the process and that leaves about about five weeks to get something done before January 1st.

The problem is that the GOP has painted itself into a corner of its own devising. And the truth is that the Repoublicans are not one, but three parties. There is a Libertarian Wing led by Ron/Rand Paul that is simply against everything. They will vote against every budget bull for the simple reason that their philosophy is so divorced from reality that it cannot be met. These represent about 10% of all self-identified Republicans. Then you have the Tea Party people that will ignore the deficit and the fact that the USA has some of the lowest taxes in the world, and oppose anything that sounds like taxes. They occasionally talk about the military, global warming, abortion, immigration, and womens issues, but in truth they are anti-changists. These represent about 20-25% of all Republicans. Then there are moderate (Eisenhower) Republicans and liberal (George Romney) Republicans that hold much more centrist views and want the best for the country as a whole. They make up the remainder of 65-70% of the GOP.

These three groups are simply too diverse to get a single plan together in about five weeks. The moderates and liberals in the GOP are scared to death that they will offend the Libertarians and Tea Party and these vindictive groups will destroy their political careers. The old timers who would work across the aisle --- such as Ted Kennedy and Specter are dead and many more have retired. Who is left to craft the compromise?

It is utterly shocking how far the GOP hgas fallen. One only has to go back to Eisenhower's re-election to see a much different GOP. Here is a link to the 1956 GOP Platform:

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=25838

In 1956, Eisenhower was spending billions on "stimulus" programs (for example the GI Bill and the Interstate System) and the GOP had the support of well over 70% of Blacks. There is no real count of Latinos back then because they were just considered white. Virtually 100% of gays were Republicans (remember the Log Cabin Republicans?) And the GOP characterized itself as a "Big Tent" that could encompass a wide range of positions and beliefs.

Now the GOP is the party of old, southern and western white men. They call Latinos by the racial epithet "hispanics" and demonize GBLT people. They hate unions, science, teachers, and anything associated with the government. They are racists that cannot restrain themselves in a way we have not seen since Jim Crow days. Women's issues are the most hurtful at all --- the GOP opposes equal pay, unions that are primarily women are a favorite target, and they want for old white men to have complete control over women's reproductive processes. They have brought us the Patriot Act and the hated TSA and continue their march toward militant control of everyday life. And they quickly eat their own --- Bush and Cheney were barred from their convention and now Gen Petraeus, their fair-haired boy, has fallen. Their two past presidential candidates have been a traitorous "maverick" and a Mormon tax cheat, both of who have long histories of misogynism. Who exactly is left to vote for the Republicans? There are few, except for the rich, left for them to piss off!

geo-1957883

The ignorant speak loudest, congratulation Pigotry. Common sense? No budget in 4 years! What would give you ANY idea he has what it takes to lead, and deliver a balanced budget?

geo, geo, geo...

Bush2 had a deficit for 8 years in the row except the FY2001 which was Clinton's up to October.

Duringthe 8 Bush years:

For 2 years, the Republicans held majority in both House and Senate and had a Republican in the Executive Branch.

For 4 years, the Republicans controlled the Executive Branch, House and had a 50/50 Senate with Dick Cheney having the tie-breaking vote.

Bush2 - 8 of 8 years of deficit

Bush1 - 4 of 4 years of deficit

Reagan - 8 of 8 years of deficit

Romney - who your party wanted to put in office, balanced his MA state budget by increasing $500 million in fees first year alone, raising state college tuition on average by 63%, raising property taxes on average of 24%, etc.

So what would give you ANY idea the Republicans have what it takes to lead, and deliver a balanced budget?

John-755418

The ones stopping Obama's budget is the Senate which is controlled by the Democrats! The last one was defeated back in May by a count of 99 votes against and 0 for.

ask yourself this: why would the Democrats vote against President Obama's budget? To answer that question, first, you need to learn how budgets are passed.

Once you learn the process, look up the reason why it was 99-0.

I could do it for you but why? You need to learn not to listen to losers like Fox News and start doing your own research. Don't let people feed you propaganda. Educate yourself for your own sake.

If you'd bothered to read my first post, you would see me giving credit to the Republicans (Tea Party, actually) for giving us the fiscal cliff in the first place.

then it was a misunderstanding. I am against a one party system regardless of D or R. Things need to change and i dont see it changing. Its not just the repubs fault. We need compromise. funny word eh, almost non existent in modern day US politics

Casesar Augustus wrote:

"Interesting we havent seen a balanced budget in nearly 4 years. Yep only democrats know how to do it. Run along and blame the GOP."

I did not say only Democrats know how to balance a budget. Let's work on that comprehension, bub. However, I'm sure you will be good enough to show us the last time a Republican President balanced the budget, won't you?

Only someone who has absolutely no understanding of arithmetic - I'm talking about you - could believe that anyone could have brought the national budget into balance in a mere four years.

As far as the gridlock in Congress as well as the Senate and the Assembly in California - both are the result of a super majority requirement that has been abused by Republicans.

That's absolutely factual and beyond dispute.

That budget was loaded up with republicon social engineering like state rape. There was no way you racists could get that past the Democrats and they all voted you down.

I could do it for you but why? You need to learn not to listen to losers like Fox News and start doing your own research. Don't let people feed you propaganda. Educate yourself for your own sake.

My link referenced the Washington Times. Did you bother reading it?

Chris, the moderate republicans of the eisenhower and rockefeller era are definitely < 10% of the total population, or Obama would have won many more votes. They are nearly extinct, and it's too bad because they were the respectable part of the party. All that's left is venom and spitfire.

Hey Republicans -- take look at REALITY

At the end of the Carter administration, the national debt was 32% of GDP. After the Reagan and Bush 41 administrations 12 years later, the national debt had doubled to 65% of GDP. At the end of the Clinton administration, it had fallen to 56% of GDP. At the end of the Bush 43 administration it had climbed to 85% of GDP. It seems clear who the big spenders are

John, the finalized budget that was proposed after the republican budget comittee finished with it was loaded down with all sorts of State Grazing Rights, Republican Pork, and enormous defense increases the Pentagon didn't want. Of course it wasn't going to pass!

Many innocent people are blamed for things they did not due every year. So what is your point?

"If the U.S. government ends up careening off the "fiscal cliff," Republicans in Congress stand to shoulder most of the blame, according to a new poll released Tuesday."

My point is the Democrats are better liars and have more support in the media...who governed for two years without any opposition yet could not be bothered to even pass a budget...yup the Democrats. Now we have not had a budget for four years...blame all you want the truth is somewhere else.

Who just cut the amount of intake into social security...yup the Democrats...look for less benefit later.

Who exteded the Bush tax cuts...yup the Democrats...who did what to whom again?

Who has the title for the largest defict in histroy....all four years...yup the President and his party who would not even approve his budget...wonder why?

Who has been the most successful at push polling...the Democrats and their polling organizations.

Next

GOP

The Gerrymandering Obsolete Party

Reforming the tax code would require major across the aisle co-operation. Done properly it would take 24 months AND would make every taxpayer and many new ones MADDER THAN HELL because everybody would have to stand silently by and watch their favourite ox get gored, and gored reel gud. Can you see anyone in our present House or Senate with the courage to do THAT? Obama's got the courage and does not have to face re-election, but all of the others . . . not a chance, not a chance, not a chance.

ldo

Wow, the Progressives just can't get over Mr. Obama only winning the Presidential election by a couple percentage points.

Unlike 12 years ago when GW Bush won and proclaimed a mandate. He lost the popular vote by over 500,000 votes. Are you still using Roves NEW MATH? Obama won by 3 Million votes despite voter suppression, now that's a mandate.

Just a little reminder about the 8 years of Bush jr days. The republicans held the House Senate and the White House for 6 years. They gave us 6 Trillion in tax cuts, 2 un-funded wars, un-funded prescription drug program and big tax breaks to send jobs over seas. Dems had no chance to defeat these things. Spin it any way you want, republican leadership got us into deeper debt.

If you think either party cares about you, you're delusional. They both serve the same masters, they just use different rhetoric to get there. Elections are like focus groups: they trot out different marketing campaigns to see which one fools the most people. The government and the media are not your friends, and they're sure not going to tell you the truth.

ok, who the hell is Cliff !!!!

:)

If anyone gets the chance and you get PBS, look for Independent Lens on the TV listings and DVR the current one called "Park Place". It will open your eyes to all this. Not to my surprise many Republicans are guilty but to my surprise Chuck Schumer is also.

Amazes me how they left side keeps saying the right side will not compromise. What is the left side compromising about? You cannot get enough money out of the 1% or 2 % to pay down the debt. That means they will have to tax you or add fees. Remember your favorite phrase? It is the Math.

@ Chris,

Perfectly put! But why the change of face?

When you have the liberal media not explaining the whole truth of course the blame will go to the GOP.

That is just so funny! HOW could they explain it? Make up lies like the GOP do? Enough of blaming this on the liberal media! You Republicans are so fond of saying that Democrats play the blame game when all I hear out of Republicans is "blame the liberal media"!

Damn it, take the responsibility for your own actions. No one is painting Republicans with falsehoods - it is just that the truth hurts soooo much!

PIGOTRY SAYS--->The GOP has ignored the public opinion that has supported Obama's common sense approach. When the GOP is going against the public opinion, RepubliCONs call their approach '$hit,' 'leader$hit' that is.

ROFLMFAO, Really? Your memory is short PIGFACE! How about ObamaCare and the majority of Americans and their "public opinion" that did not want it? You idiots will point fingers and never look in the mirror. Also "common sense" to one is NOT "common sense" to another! $hit? You must have been looking in the mirror when that one came out.

The republicans need to do the right thing and do the deal. What a better way to tell Grover to go to hell.

Your memory is short PIGFACE! How about ObamaCare and the majority of Americans and their "public opinion" that did not want it?

The difference being that some of us who oppose ObamaCare oppose it because it's not bold enough, not because we prefer the Republican alternative. On the other hand, as far as taxes go, the polls are pretty clear that a comfortable majority of Americans want tax rates for the rich to move in one direction, up.

It's time for you people to face it. The U.S. gave Obama a resounding victory, Senate Democrats an even more resounding victory, and —despite what the gerrymandering suggests– we also gave the popular-vote victory to House Democrats over House Republicans. The country is on the Democratic side, not the Republican side. Get over it.

Nothing stopped Obama his 1st 4 years working with the other side. Instead of the olive branch he extended the middle finger to the Republicans

When you have the liberal media not explaining the whole truth of course the blame will go to the GOP.

Quit being a worhthless Trog and wake up to the fact that the election WAS rigged.

The "Party of Personal Responsibility" sure seems to have a problem accepting responsibility for their actions when their strategy blows up in their face. However adept they may be in deluding themselves into believing that their failures are due to Obama, the liberal media, and those nasty election riggers respectively, the public isn't buying it, as evidenced by the poll which is the subject of this article. Anyone who was paying attention and has a memory will know who brought us to the Fiscal Cliff.

Personally, I think the US needs to go off the fiscal cliff

That's easy for you to say, unless you're one of the peope who will become unemployed as the result of the heightened recession that virtually no economist has disputed will follow. Raising taxes AND cutting spending in a recession is a recipe for disaster.

The middle finger did not come until the final 8 months of Obama's 1st term and you know it...

And Obama did compromise with the fiscal cliff. He's destroying something both parties love so they work together to get a solution. It's not nice, but it's hellishly effective at causing a stir, which you would think make both parties fight for the survival of their stuff. The reality is the republican senate has fillibustered and blocked nearly everything this first term. There is also some truth that Harry Reid began playing dirty near the end of year 3. Now both you sets of immature morons get off your asses and start calculating a compromised, fiscally responsible way around the cliff or go over, get hurt, and learn from it.

There's a reason the founding fathers never wanted commoners to vote or go into office, they lack the education and character to act in the best interests of the country. All of Congress should be professors of economics, business, math, and engineering as the original was. For those who wish to say Obama is uneducated: Harvard Law Review Editor. Less than 2 in 8000 Harvard Law graduates get that esteemed job. So screw off with your vitriol and lies.

rmoonrock

All of you step back and think about the quote that everyone uses "you must pay your fair share". Well if you pay no taxes then I think you are not paying your fair share.

So, rmoonrock, you are suggesting that the retired folks who have worked and paid taxes their entire lives and are now living off of SS should start pitching in their fair share? How much would you like to take from them? 10%? 20%? Before my parents passed away, they were living off of less than $20,000 a year. The IRS sent them a letter saying that they no longer needed to file a return because their income was so low that they were not expected to have a tax liability for the rest of their lives. But say we taxed them. I'm guessing that they were bringing in $19,200 a year, and say we taxed them at 20%. That would take their retirement income down to $15,360, so they gov't could get $3840 from them. They both worked their entire lives, paid taxes, bought a home and raised a family. They were frugal and never bought anything they couldn't afford, but would never have been able to live off of that amount. You're prepared to tax people like that? Or what about those college students who don't get any help from their parents, working to put themselves thru school making minimum wage? Sorry kids, you don't have any skin in the game. Pay up! Or those with families who just can't get a better paying job? Would you rather they pay their $5000 to the Fed gov't or spend that money on goods and services, paying sales taxes and helping to keep people employed?

I am middle class and willing to take a small tax hike. I completely understand that our taxes are the lowest they've ever been, and I'm willing to do my part to help improve the economy. If I make sacrafices, I'd also like to see the wealthiest amongst us make some sacrafices too. I'd like to see a change in tax code so people who earn more than $200,000 from capital gains pay the earned income tax rate. I'd like to see corporations invest in American workers, and I would support tax breaks for those who keep a high percentage of workers in the US. I'd also like to see penalities for those who have more than a certain percentage of jobs outside of the US. If US companies hire American workers and pay them decent wages, there will be more revenue going both locally and to the Fed gov't. More people would have disposable income to buy good and services, which would reward those companies who hire the people. Its a win-win!

As a result of the election - from a political strategy perspective, Democrats can "win" by either letting sequestration happen and then negotiating (Republicans blamed by electorate and have to negotiate to save face) or by getting strong concessions from the House now. The only way Republicans can "win" is by giving the concessions now. In fact the concessions they might have to give now are probably better than what they'd have to give afterwards. Why? Sequestration gives automatic cuts to Republican pets that are never touched normally (like defense). To get that back, they have to be willing give to cut into the sacred cow of no "new" taxes. Obama's negotiation position is by far best here and smart Republican
representatives would be wise to ignore the lunatic fringe.

I find myself wondering what would have been if the Republican party hadn't been hijacked by illogical ideology a long, long time ago.

@Notsosure10

So why are you so hell bent on maintaining a bloated military budget

that is one place that MUST BE CUT

While were at it how about major cuts to the DOJ, FBI, CIA, NSA, TSA....

I did not say only Democrats know how to balance a budget. Let's work on that comprehension, bub.

thats right, there are like 10 Indie's in there oops. What a joke. but you said:

The facts clearly show Republicans have no idea how budgets are balanced.

so you tell me what you implied, democrats and a super minority of 'indies' do eh.

Only someone who has absolutely no understanding of arithmetic - I'm talking about you - could believe that anyone could have brought the national budget into balance in a mere four years.

uh oh, DW is saying I dont know math. im sorry arithmetic. interesting Obama seemed to have hinted he could but we know, its out of context im sure.

Continue with the Repubs did it mantra, eventually full circle will come about.

Whether or not the poll says that the GOP will be blamed for "going over the cliff", we know they will be blamed for it by the mainstream media....after all, that's what the white house whores get paid for.

eph521

@Caesar, have you forgotten Obama's offer to Boehner that for every $2.50 in spending cuts, he wants $1 in revenues (mostly tax increase on wealthy). Boehner's response: "Nope".

And there was an offer made by Boehner and company for 10 to 1 instead and the president's response: "Nope."

But, of course, it's always the other guy. Right?

2.5 to 1 doesn't put a dent in the deficit and anyone who can do math knows this.

(Republicans have called for broader talks that link an overhaul in the tax code to entitlement program reforms.)

The only entitlement that needs to be addressed is the lifetime medical and retirement funds that Congress votes on for themselves!! SSI and Medicare are funded by the recipients of those funds, unlike Congress who doesn't contribute to their entitlements. So, if we're going to reform taxes and entitlements lets start with the most egregious of all the entitlements, congressional benefits (ie. free medical insurance, free outrageous pay, free various taxpayer funded reimbursements, free retirement, and all for doing nothing.

The famous, Do Nothing Congress, that does nothing at work, while I bust my ass, still working after 3 major back surgeries, 4 levels of spinal fusion, and still grinding it out to make a buck and feed the family while these KOOKS complain how tough their job is. These fools don't know what hard work is and they never will. They are the true entitlement class, the TAKERS if you will while we the PAYERS, pay their way. Yeah, the same TAKERS that put a time limit on my educational GI Bill after I got back from Vietnam so it expired without my being able to use it. F*CK CONGRESS - THE REAL TAKERS!!

Caesar, the deficit has FALLEN under obama. The debt may be rising, but the deficit has been cut at nearly 100 billion per year. Counts for something.

The american voters are to be blamed we just had an election people we get what we voted for. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a diiferent outcome. We knew befoe the election thet the repuks had controll of congress we did not vote them out. We do not have a dictatorship so we get what we voted for.

Do you Obama lemmings have unusually large balls, or is it just good old fashioned ignorance that makes you accuse anybody except the Santa Claus president for the bulk of the national debt. The total debt, accrued under all presidents, is $16 trillion; $6 trillion, or 37.5%, of that has accrued since 2009. I mean, do you not feel just a little bit stupid blaming any body else?.....cause you sure sound stupid!

Republicans work for the banks, corporations and insurance companies not the American people. I still can’t believe that voters sent so many of these Republican prostitutes back to Washington……….. What were people thinking? These Republican obstructionists will NEVER change.

As far as right wing claims that "the election was rigged" just shows how delusional these people really are............

The country is waking up and is beginning to see the lies, negativity and division the Republican Party truly stands for. I think if the American people could redo the election today the Republican Party would be tarred and feathered and kicked out of Washington for good. While these obstructionist jerks were running back to the holes they crawled out of they would be screaming "TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH", because that's the ONLY thing they really stand for...............

Let all the "W" tax cuts expire and start all over, stick it to the greedy 1% !!!!!!!!

Wow 7 2 7...what a flamming socialist you are. But seriously, neither side is really comprimising. Biggest , fairest tax change is reducing or eliminating the favorable capital gains tax treatment. Congress can start by taking it from 15% to 20%...what a huge revenue boster that would be in of itself. That would eliminate these rediculously low effective tax rates w/o actually changing the tax rates/brackets.

No, Big Al, Obama didn't rig the election......he bought it with food stamps!

This is exactly what I was talking about in another post yesterday, the Republicans will get all the blame for everything and anything that goes wrong. Give $hithead Obama everything he wants, lock, stock, and barrel. Then go on record as to what you would have done with a cooperative executive branch. Obama can't blame Bush or the republicans anymore. He owns it.

Patrick your statement makes no sense.

"The debt may be rising, but the deficit has been cut at nearly 100 billion per year. Counts for something."

Is the debt rising or is the deficit falling? Fact, the debt is rising.

Its like saying that I still spend way more than I earn but not as much as I used to spend.

Also, $100 billion is 0.6% of the national debt. Even if we were reducing the debt by 0.6% per year, it would take about 167 years to break even.

The debt may be rising, but the deficit has been cut at nearly 100 billion per year. Counts for something.

interesting but perhaps you can clear up what deficit is and then debt and get back to me. its like the job numbers adding 144k yet the min needed just to match incoming workforce is 150k and somehow the unemployment rate drops. BTW the BLS monthly average for the year is less than 150k.

For all of you that voted in Obama for a second term, but neglected to sit more Dems in the House and Senate - you get what you asked for. Don't continue to vote the GOP in and then complain when Obama can't work with them.

A proposal by Obama, sequestration, ends up as the GOP's fault, how cute.

Obamas only budget proposal was defeated 99-0, so even his own party thinks he sucks at budgeting.

If this were 1850 the modern GOP would fight against the abolition of slavery.

I have great sympathy for all of you.  Feel free to go blue in the face blaming each other's party for this mess, but it wouldn't hurt if you'd point your finger while standing in front of a mirror.  YOU and I made bad choices, we elected them, and they chose to get and keep power by buying votes.  Now the decades long buying of votes is about to crush us and you just keep going along merrily blaming each other.  Lots of luck with that.

Reality time- Fine, eat the rich, take everything they have in massive taxes (like 75% income taxes in France) but watch, they'll move on and shutter the businesses you so enjoy and take their money elsewhere.  You think it's all going to be better when the government has their money?!?  You are smoking something really strong.  The next step will have to be, "well we got the rich, hey you- you look like you've got a nice ....., give it up"  Then it'll be those over $200,000, then $150,000.  It'll be your 401k, your bank accounts, your stocks, and your property.  The assault on personal property will go in full swing with 50-75% taxes on real estate sales and estates after deaths, but don't worry it'll be great. 

Then the full weight of the United States of Socialism will kick in.  You'll have your healthcare via government, but you'll get what you get.  You'll have your education, but they'll regulate it.  You'll have your car, but you'll pay for every mile you drive and all the carbon you use.  You'll try to get ahead, but you'll be fought every step of the way.  "Everbody should have the same amount", "you can't do that", and "social justice" will be what you'll hear.

TO: steve-1962 who wrote:

"of course you dirtbags on the left will NEVER take responsibility for your own actions.

So blame the GOP. Good Ole Plan.

Never accept any responsibility when you can blame it on BUSH or the GOP."

There are 2 parts missing from your post:

(1) When did Republicans ever accept responsibility for lying us into war, and for crashing the entire United States Economy? and

(2) What is it that you say that Democrats have done for which they are NOT taking responsibility?

Please don't give me that bit about Republicans asking Democrats to take retroactive responsibility for that Republican catastrophy known as George "Curveball" Bush?

When is the Trickle down coming, that could help this Recession ???????????????????

TO: CoRavensFan who wrote:

"For all of you that voted in Obama for a second term, but neglected to sit more Dems in the House and Senate - you get what you asked for..."

We did gain 6 seats in the House and 2 in the Senate, but not to worry, we'll be gaining even more come the mid-term elections.

I come here for my daily chuckle. It truly amazes me the amount of uneducated people we have in this country.

This country deserves to go off of the fiscal cliff. We need to fall hard and fast, so we can weed out those that have been causing the destruction. Maybe, just maybe, if we do go off of the cliff we can bring about cultural changes that are the direct result of our downfall.

Well isn't that just like the demo-F*****s to blame the rep when shts going wrong. even when bush was president they blamed him for the tax cuts that hairy reid had put into place after bush had rejected it 3 times...now once again, 4 years after the fact he is still being blamed. hussein o"bama" does no wrong, yall act like he is a messiah or a savior of some kind?? yall will blame the rep's if o"bama" screws up or sell your childrens souls to the devil, it would still be the rep's fault because he can't take responsibility for his own actions, its always someone else fault unless things go right then he alone did it, no one else, just him...yall don't want to wake up from this nightmare sooo, yall will learn the hard way...mark my words, it will get way worse before it gets better...oh, demo's thank you for the 40% tax hike. small businesses are about to take a large hit, one of the things your messiah said he wouldn't do. oh and when your mother dies of a heart attack because o"bama"care didn't cover that, don't blame the GOP. when your credit card isn't accepted anymore because now all those businesses that you helped o"bama" help take care of will only accept cash because the tax hikes are to severe, don't blame the GOP...and I also want to remind yall that joe BIDen had already told yall during the election that there was going to be a 1 trillion dollar tax spike after the new year, don't blame the GOP, yall kicked the GOP out of the equation, now they have to go thur o"bamas" lead speaker hairy reid, which is going to do what ever he wants to, don't blame the GOP. Romney was going to pull us out of debt, now o"bama" is going to send us so far into debt it will take our great, great grand kids to pay off the bill that demo had left for them. dont blame the GOP. oh, and don't blame the GOP when o"bama" takes our 16 trillion dollar deficit to 26-30 trillion by the end of the four years, if we make it that far. If I ran china, I would recall the debt, either pay or get out. then where will yall be...rubbing elbows in the desert with the muslims that are yakkin at you about either convert or we stone you to death, or worse, follow the ways of the qu'ran to the infidels heart...one limb at a time. yall demos have always blame GOP for all the things that had gone wrong in this country when its the demos radical spending habits and no avenues for revenues.

The results of this poll go hand in hand with a previous NBC article questioning if humans are getting dumber or not. It is obvious in this poll result what the answer is.

If this were 1850 the modern GOP would fight against the abolition of slavery.

Just like the Democrats actually did back then...right, Macdopey?

If it comes to a fiscal cliff it will be all the Republicans fault for supporting their 1% buddies lavish life style !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JD1966 Comment collapsed by the community

Of course the republicans are to blame they made the mess and then blocked cleaning up the mess.

Time to get registered and ready for 2014!!! and Vote as many of them out as possible.

Enough of their stalling and country wrecking stalemate.

Get Registered!! and Get ready to Vote in 2014!!

This is precisely how the campaign already start. Democrats want the House back, they are angry because the landslide in 2010 that prevent Obama to continue his extreme radical agenda. The media will be in complicity with Obama for the next 2 years attacking Republicans in congress making sure the blame on Republicans be the news everyday , when is actually Obama who do not want bipartisan work. Is his way or the highway. " Republicans are the enemy " " they will go to the back of the bus".

Not a single leftist on this thread got it anything close to right. I didn't agree with it, but you can read for yourself about the deal Boehner and McConnell made with Reid and Pelosi IN THE WHITE HOUSE, a deal which Mr. Obama then rejected. Reid's Senate staffer there then read Mr. Obama the riot act over his obstructionism. Bob Woodward is hardly a conservative, and the participants in the "deal" refuse to reject his account of what occurred that day. This was in the summer of 2011 during the negitiations over the debt ceiling increase.

Sorry, but it was the president, not Republicans, who said no to a deal, and it was that act then which has brought us to this point AGAIN. I know the MSM won't report these facts, preferring instead to simply report what Mr. Obama or his spokespeople say, but that fact doesn't alter this reality. I think the same deal, which included revenue increases and spending cuts, can be done still. But it won't be done with this president if he continues to refuse to compromise. And that is the point...the president, not the GOP, refused to compromise.

I prefer, like a few other posters have written, that we go off the cliff and deal with the problem of living beyond our means now rather than continue to put if off, all the while stealing from future Americans to do it. The government could lessen regulations, it could reform the tax code, it could do these fundamental reforms necessary for a viable economic boom within the free market system that once made us great. We could, could we not, stop the crony capitalism that is so prevalent today and let winners and losers be picked by consumers who are free to make choices. We could, if we do these things, get our economy on terra firma. Or we could continue to finance higher GDP by stealing our heirs' money, all the while talking about how wonderful we are. Voters, so far, have chosen the latter. Too bad.

JoeNY...you are one of the few here who makes sense.

Dems....the party always looking for the scapegoat. Who's fault will it be next?

Coming during a week of republicans exercising their right to pick scapegoats by circular firing squad. This is just a precious post.

If you spot it, you got it. GOP: the party of victims calling the other party, "victims," while trying to to decide who caused them to be victims. Actually, they may be on to something. Faux News and Rush Limpburger are leading contenders in the, "who led we poor victims off the electoral cliff," hunt.

Good luck, GOPers. You need it.

To James @#1.12

Californians replaced the Republican super-majority in the Legislature with a Democratic one, and simultaneously voted for a tax increase (on everybody) to support education.

We also voted to close a loophole in the corporate tax laws, and for additional taxes to improve transportation.

In other words, we are taking a longer view, which should be instructive to the Republicans if they want to survive as a party.

Basically the GOP's stumbling block is increasing taxes on people who's paycheck is $4807.69 or more per week, and they will send us over the "fiscal cliff" for it, this is 2% of the nation. They are ready to put even further hardship on 98% of the nation for the top 2%. They are hell bent on taking us back to the 1950's, fine lets do it, first step will be returning the tax code to what it was in the 50's. A 90% tax on those making $4807.69 or more a week.

Don't like that option then get to the table and start negotiating. This is job one for this existing congress they got us here they need to fix it now, not kick it down the road for the next congress, and kick us over the cliff at the same time.

We remember what they did 4 years ago, what makes them think we won't remember 2 years from now. The American memory is waking up, send us over the cliff now for 2% of the nation, pay for it in 2012, we will not forget, those days are over.

Caesar - You're back! Did you get time out? So...what's your reaction to the results of the election? How about those wild predictions you made? What is your explanation as to why President Obama was re-elected? Can't wait to hear your latest conspiracy theory.

Madeline-4489650

To James @#1.12

Californians replaced the Republican super-majority in the Legislature with a Democratic one, and simultaneously voted for a tax increase (on everybody) to support education.

We also voted to close a loophole in the corporate tax laws, and for additional taxes to improve transportation.

In other words, we are taking a longer view, which should be instructive to the Republicans if they want to survive as a party.

What a good example coming from a resident from the state with the worst economy , California is in the path of bankruptcy, California is like Greece and Obama and Democrats will do the same for the rest of the country. The good thing , Californians can't blame Republicans for their economy , is Democrats fault.

I find myself wondering what would have been if the Republican party hadn't been hijacked by illogical ideology a long, long time ago.

If it hadn't been hijacked, we wouldn't be facing this fiscal cliff because the problem would have been resolved the first time around. Also, we'd probably be looking at a Republican in the White House come January. Logically, given the economy, Obama shouldn't have won. But, compared to the lunatic asylum that the GOP has become, Obama looked like the lesser of two evils.

So the obstructionist policies of the House GOP has resulted in the strong perception by the American people that the Party of NO is somehow responsible for the US to be teetering on the precipice of the Fiscal Cliff?

Good. The American people aren't as stupid as the GOP thinks we are.

Looks like the GOP is on it's last leg, what a mess they got us into !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The deficit is the amount of budget overrun per year (currently about 1.1 trillion) It was 1.6 trillion when bush left office. The deficit is falling, but the overrun per year is adding to the total debt, which makes the debt rise. That's not hard people...

And yeah, it is time to go over the cliff, slash military spending 25%, raise capitol gains tax back to 20% (I'd prefer 25 but no way in hell will that pass). It's time to make the central bureaucracy a little leaner and meaner.

Sailcat

Good. The American people aren't as stupid as the GOP thinks we are.

Republicans mistake how misinform and mislead was a big percentage of people that vote for Obama. The media play a big roll helping to keep them misinform.

The Republicans want Fiscal Responsibility and are producers. O'Bama and the Democrats are the "takers" who want everything for Free. The problem with that is where is the money coming from to pay for all these NEW Entitlement Programs because there are not enough of Producers to pay for these programs thanks to O'Bama destroying the U.S. Economy. O'Bama has produced Entitlement System that keeps over 50% of the U.S. Population as Slaves to those Entitlement Programs. People forget that the Majority of the Republicans are the Business Owners, Product Creators and Employers of the Democrats. I can guarantee there will be a Violent Revolution that will forever remove O'Bama from the Political Landscape if he attempts to Redistribute anything. The riots in the U.S. will make the Greek riots look like a day at the Park. O'Bama is the best thing to happen to Gun Shops When that happens, and it will because there are not enougn people to pay the bills, those that depend on O'Bama and Entitlements will once again be in the Food Lines and living in the GUtter. Bottom Line, Blacks voted for O'Bama because he is Black and not for his skills as President. The Latinos voted for O'Bama because his goal is to open our borders and let the scum from Mexico come freely to America. The people on Welfare and Entitlements are deadbeats that want everything given to them while they sit on their backsides. O'Bama should take care because history ALWAYS repeats itself and other leaders in history that tried to redistribute wealth and had massive Socialist Programs did not last long. Their demise was celebrated world wide and we will get another holiday when that happens. O'Bama controls the media, he has ordered his departments to ignore our laws and now HIS "Brown Shirts" are trolling the Internet for anyone who criticize our new Socialist Dictator (President). Those Brown Shirts will be hunted down and destroyed just as in Nazi Germany.

Republicans mistake how misinform and mislead was a big percentage of people that vote for Obama.

English isn't your first language is it?

We're all in this together. If taxes are to increase, then everyone's should increase. No one in this country should get a free ride. AMT should apply not just to the wealthy, but to everyone. Even those below the poverty level enjoy the relative benefits of living in the U.S. - they should pay something, even if only $25/yr. Otherwise, why do they have any motivation to want their tax dollars spent wisely/efficiently? It's human nature not to value that which we don't invest in. Everyone should have a stake in the U.S. government - maybe then, we'd do a much better job of holding our politicians accountable!

Will the Republican Tea Party give their pledge of allegiance to the Flag ...or again, to Grover Norquist?

Piggy

Petraeus was hired by and worked for the leader of the cult that you belong to , one would then summize that his "allegiances" were more aligned with lefty lunacy than conservatism , let me know when you again need enlightened , no charge

"...or to Grover Norquist?"

hmmm interesting , almost as interesting as the question: how long has the entire democrat party had their collective lips attached to George Soros' backside?

...questions , questions on the minds of men

They'll just unskew this poll to remove the bias and declare the opposite - just as they did to show that Romney was winning.

DON'T BLAME THE REPUBLICANS FOR THE DEMOCRATS SCREW UP... Obama has added 7+ TRILLION to the national debt in 4 years.. That is hands down a given.. Obama plans to add another 4+ Trillion over the next four years.. Also a given.. Obama isn't even hiding it...

Companies across the country have been telling everyone if Obamacare goes into action, they have no choice they have to lay off employees.. These businesses can't AFFORD ObamaCare... How much plainer do you people need it! Companies have already started the lay off process. The temporary deflated national unemployment percentage that Obama used to get re-elected is now bouncing back to the true number and people are crying "wolf".. No, you Democrats have practically destroyed this country with all your liberal garbage, policies and unending spending and now you are looking for a scapegoat... What else is new! However, Obama has been in office for the last four years... The buck stops with him now.. You can't blame the GOP when it is Obama signing the checks!

No wonder the conservative states you hate so much are wanting out of the union.. We are tired of paying for your bills and entitlements and getting your garbage dumped on us when things don't go your way...

Pay your own bills and get a job! Try it.. I'm sure it will be a new experience for many of you......

JoeB,

O'Bama and the Democrats are the "takers" who want everything for Free.

You're not the brightest bulb in the room, are you? Do you believe everything Fox News tells you? Do you have the brains to read and form opinions on your own? I didn't think so.

You talk about "Brown Shirts"? Go look in the mirror, pal. You would have fit right in with the S.A. People like you are the real threat to freedom.

Rob, the 2%ers take in 90% of the income each year and pay less than 40% of overall tax revenue. They should pay 90% of the taxes in proportion to what the rest of the U.S. citizenry pays. When that happens we can raise middle class taxes again.

How about those wild predictions you made?

KimH, the capn of the debate team in what college or HS? I made zero predictions. in fact have a field day searching for any i made. Yeah i got some bogus time out for a day before the election or something. but feel free to see what i got suspended for, hardly a hellworthy trespass considering. under quota for the day? Par for the course I suppose.

Can't wait to hear your latest conspiracy theory.

because I have tons of them huh? man you don't pay much attention or you confuse me with someone else. I never said Obama would lose, just hoped he would. I was adamant about not citing polls for either side. But Captain Kimmy where have you been? im sure you and Mickey have been fine tuning those 'Killa debatin' skillz'. And Obama won because of the 270 electoral. sheesh get with the program.

Sailcat congrats on the Giants too. I was rootin for them, my baseball team as well. you're still a smug a-hole though ;)

The total lack of leadership in the White house, Senate, and the House. All of them are to blame. Incompetency at its finest. And hey... we voted for them and they won.

Pro Business, Spider, and others. Don't you think it is time to step aside and let them find out the hard way that the light at the end of the tunnel is a freight train?

The sooner the republicans do, the sooner things will fall apart.

352,000 announced job losses in the last 7 days. A little over half those that were already anticipated. Many of the job losses don't have numbers applied yet and the small business numbers won't be seen until the claims actually hit.

Many corporations have descended upon Washington DC to ask for relief. If they don't get it expect even more losses.

Boehner says the GOP will not compromise "no tax increases" all they are willing to allow is eliminating tax loopholes, limiting or eliminating some deductions. Now we all can agree that raising someones tax rate or implementing a new tax is raising taxes. I think we all know that if you close a loophole (which makes it sound like "only rich people" will be effected because poor people don't have loopholes) or eliminating/limiting a deduction will mean a higher adjusted gross income on those who lost those write offs. Now Mr. Boehner explain how a higher adjusted gross income will not mean a increase in taxes. Someone is playing word games. The only way eliminating loopholes or reducing deductions is not a raise in taxes is if you further lower the tax rate to offset the loss of write offs. The GOP WEAK ON MATH AGAIN!!!!

Hi Patrick93,

Could you please offer a source for your claim that Bush's last deficit was $1.6 trillion? My source happens to be the federal government. In FY08, Bush's last year, the deficit was $459 billion. That's a large number, but nothing near your claim. So we come to FY09, and the deficit there was $1.4 trillion. One could argue that Bush was responsible for this amount since the FY09 budget was passed while he was still president, but this would be irresponsible. TARP added greatly to the deficit, but TARP was nearly completely paid back, and so we shouldn't use that amount of the deficit in that year (TARP repayments did, in fact, mask Obama's later deficits as repayments were made to the government).

Without TARP (because it was repaid), around $600 billion, and the Stimulus (while passed in FY09 it was accounted for over a little more than two year period), around $300 to $400 billion, the FY09 deficit Bush can be held responsible for was actually about $500 billion. Still a great deal of money, but nothing even close to Mr. Obama's $1.1 trillion-plus deficits in every year of his presidency.

But it was a good try on your part.

TO: spider-737231 who wrote:

"Do you Obama lemmings have unusually large balls, or is it just good old fashioned ignorance that makes you accuse anybody except the Santa Claus president for the bulk of the national debt..."

Would Republicans have preferred to have the American People stand "soup lines" all around the block for everyone in the world to see and then claim that "capitalism" was a failure?

The "greatest country in the world" with hundreds of thousands of Americans waiting for piece of bread?

If that's what Republicans had in mind, as opposed to extending unemployment insurance, then I am doubly glad President Obama was elected, and re-elected.

Patrick has his own unusual way of thinking and computing.

Everyone needs to accept a piece of the blame. Sorry Barry you can't have everything you want, neither can the democrats or the republicans. And guess what people the general population that keeps electing these greedy self serving so called public servants deserve the screw job they will get from all of the above. And now is time for Barry to start accepting blame for his own messes now.

John Athondoe

said: "...or to Grover Norquist?"

hmmm interesting , almost as interesting as the question: how long has the entire democrat party had their collective lips attached to George Soros' backside?

...questions , questions on the minds of men

#1.154 - Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:09 PM PST

--------------------------------------------------------

John,

Your Republican Tea Party then, were they souring on the big teats of their billionaire donors that lost this election?

Little to Show for Cash Flood by Big Donors

The biggest single donor in political history, the casino billionaire Sheldon Adelson, mingled with other Romney backers at a postelection breakfast, fresh off a large gamble gone bad. Of the eight candidates he supported with tens of millions of dollars in contributions to “super PACs,” none were victorious on Tuesday.

And as calls came in on Wednesday from some of the donors who had poured more than $300 million into the pair of big-spending outside groups founded in part by Karl Rove — perhaps the leading political entrepreneur of the super PAC era — he offered them a grim upside: without us, the race would not have been as close as it was.

The most expensive election in American history drew to a close this week with a price tag estimated at more than $6 billion, propelled by legal and regulatory decisions that allowed wealthy donors to pour record amounts of cash into races around the country.

But while outside spending affected the election in innumerable ways — reshaping the Republican presidential nominating contest, clogging the airwaves with unprecedented amounts of negative advertising and shoring up embattled Republican incumbents in the House — the prizes most sought by the emerging class of megadonors remained outside their grasp.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/08/us/politics/little-to-show-for-cash-flood-by-big-donors.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Spending binge largely a bust for GOP donors
http://www.leadertelegram.com/news/daily_updates/article_16f06ac9-2dfe-518b-9e90-bf6abaee5b89.html

Money can't buy happiness, or an election

Money can't buy happiness, nor can it buy an election, apparently.

The top donors to super PACs in 2012 did not fare well — casino magnate Sheldon Adelson, the No. 1 super PAC contributor with more than $53 million in giving, backed eight losers at this writing.

Adelson was top backer of the pro-Mitt Romney Restore Our Future super PAC, with $20 million in donations. Romney lost to President Barack Obama. In addition, Adelson's contributions to super PACs backing U.S. Senate candidates in Florida, Virginia and New Jersey were also for naught.

He was not the only conservative billionaire who had a bad night.

Contran Corp. CEO Harold Simmons, (No. 2), homebuilder Bob Perry (No. 3) and TD Ameritrade founder Joe Ricketts, (No.4), also bet on Romney. Collectively, the trio gave $13.4 million to Restore Our Future, and Ricketts' super PAC, Ending Spending Action Fund, spent an additional $9.9 million helping Romney's failed bid.

Win-Loss Rundown:

(Giving to candidate-specific super PACs in the federal election)

Sheldon Adelson, Republican, $53.7 million*

• Mitt Romney — loss
• Connie Mack (Florida Senate) — loss
• George Allen (Virginia Senate) — loss
• Allen West (House, Florida’s 18th) — too close to call, but leaning toward loss
• Joe Kyrillos (New Jersey Senate) — loss
• Shmuley Boteach (House, New Jersey’s 9th) — loss
• Newt Gingrich (GOP presidential primary) — loss
• David Dewhurst (GOP primary, Texas Senate) — loss

Harold Simmons, Republican, $26.9 million*

• Mitt Romney — loss
• Connie Mack (Florida Senate) — loss
• Rick Santorum (GOP presidential primary) — loss
• Newt Gingrich (GOP presidential primary) — loss
• Rick Perry (GOP presidential primary) — loss
• David Dewhurst (GOP primary, Texas Senate) — loss
• Orrin Hatch (GOP primary, Utah Senate) — win

Bob Perry, Republican, $21.5 million*

• Mitt Romney — loss
• George Allen (Virginia Senate) — loss
• Connie Mack (Florida Senate) — loss
• Rick Perry (GOP presidential primary) — loss
• David Dewhurst (GOP primary, Texas Senate) — loss

Joe Ricketts, Republican, $12.9 million*

• Mitt Romney — loss

Fred Eychaner, Democrat, $12 million*

• Barack Obama — win

TO: thinkstraight-306257 who wrote:

"... now is time for Barry to start accepting blame for his own messes now."

First we need to hear Bush and his Republican Administration admit to lying us into an unfunded War in Iraq AND crashing the entire United States Economy.

Republicans are waaay past due to accept and admit to their horrific failures!

I say we let the bush tax cuts on all run out come up with a new tax on Hollywood and the music business of 90% plus stop buying all gm cars and layoff all tree hugging libs and freeze all government pension.

And all business should send all there workers home for a week for a boycott and all parents keep there kids out of school that same week.

the scary thing is with 47% of Americans getting help it only takes 1% to shut us down.

load up on gold and silver because we might be crashing fast.

OF COURSE the majority will blame the Republicans.

1. There are more Democrats than Republicans - WHO are the majority t blame, THEIR candidate ? of course not.

2. You see, WE know the game - the Democrats will ALWAYS want more spending; ALWAYS want more taxes. If they raise a billion in new taxes, they shout "GREAT ! We have TWO billion more to SPEND".

And, of course, that money will go to the poor in entitlements, because THAT is the Dem's base.

Yes, yes, the Repubs - those nasty guys - I mean, if they only let the debt ceiling get raised EVERY year; if they only let the government spend ANYTHING they wnt; if they only let taxes go up anytime they want, THEN, those repubs would not be obstructionist.

But..alas....they've made the mortal sin of saying "no" to the hand that feeds the klingons and dinglberries of society.

I love polls like this.

They do nothing but prove the stupidity of sooooo many people. Just like most of the comments on here.

That's right geniuses. Point fingers, play the blame game, try to make it sound as if your side is good and the other side is bad...when the truth is that both sides are a freakin joke.

Humanity at its finest...nothing but a bunch of spoiled children.

Democrats are far from dominating in government! American Patriot, USA go drink some kool-aid.

Blue

Seats in the Senate

53 / 100

Seats in the House

195 / 435

Governorships

19 / 50

State Upper House Seats

866 / 1,972

State Lower House Seats

2,589 / 5,411

If Obama sticks to his guns and forces the hands of these Republicans to tax the rich and not hurt the poor, my opinion of him will much improve. I got used to him being a sap and a pushover and compromising with them way too much(which is one of the reasons why I did not vote for him). I hope he could get these budget cutter freaks to disappear for good.

Patrick,

Your attempt at deflection is weak. The point is, no one should get a free ride, period.

Logically, a shrewd politician would want as many of his constituents getting a free ride as possible. Why? Because they could care less about whether he spent taxpayer monies efficiently or not - it's no skin off their nose. As long as he keeps getting them the freebies, and getting other people to pay for it (e.g. the 3% of the population who makes $250K or more), they'll keep voting for him. He could care less about the 3%'ers, because they're totally outnumbered by the free ride crowd.

Jerry Brown said how "courageous" Californians were for voting themselves a tax increase. What a joke - the majority of voters won't be impacted at all by the state income tax increase, and the sales tax increase is immaterial by comparison. That's not courage, that's merely rationalizing a form of theft.

Seems America is dancing around that tipping point in the life of every Democracy, where the voting majority can force the voting minority to pay all the bills...

ProBusiness

AMAZING!! Let me see if I get this straight you are blaming the GOP for:

1) Unemployment at 7.9% - no improvement since the day Obama took office

You're forgetting the fact that it went to 10% at the peak of the recession. You're also forgetting that financial crises take LONGER to recover from than normal recessions and that in order to get OUT of a recession, you have to SPEND money.

2) GDP at 2% - slowest economic recovery in U.S. history

Maybe that is because this was the WORST economic crash since the Great Depression!!! Jesus Christ; if you really are an economics professor (or watched the news shows during the financial crash), you know damn well that this crash was almost as bad as the Depression.

3) 40% increase in Food Stamp use since Obama took office

Obviously; that is what happens when an economy goes down such a cliff.

4) 1 in 6 now in Poverty - highest percent since the "War on Poverty" even started

Thanks to the recession; has actually been growing since that idiot Reagan took the White House...

5) $6 Trillion in additional Debt since Obama took office - more than the first 42 presidents COMBINED!!

Actually, only $4.8 trillion has been added to the debt under Obama; the debt technically started at $11.2 trillion for him. And secondly, I like how you take out the 43rd president, a Republican by the name of GEORGE W. BUSH. And don't tell me to stop using that name; you Republicans have badmouthed Jimmy Carter, and so we get to badmouth Bush for about 28 more years.

6) Lowest Labor-Participation rate since the 70's

7) Highest percent unemployed 6 months or more since the Great Depression

Thanks to the worst recession (caused by supply-side economics) ever since, wait for it, the GREAT DEPRESSION.

Well, if you are going to blame the Obama FAILED economy on the GOP who gives a tiny rat's behind if you want to blame the Fiscal Cliff on the GOP too. You see, anybody with the IQ at least 10 points above a turnip know that the Democrats are responsible for the financial collapse in 2007 AND the failed economy during the first four years of the Obama administration. And then so unintelligent as to elect Obama for ANOTHER 4 years to continue the failed economic policies further?

Actually, anybody with an IQ of 10 points knows that it was CONSERVATIVE economic policies (supply-side economics, monetarism, etc) via financial deregulation and excessive tax cuts that fueled risky and speculative investments and infected the American financial system. To be exact, the fiscal cliff ought to be blamed on the GOP; thanks to their unwillingness to accept higher tax revenues, we are about to face the automatic sequester cuts and the expiration of the Bush tax cuts. Republicans could have easily gotten a deal that heavily favored them, the grand bargain between Boehner and Obama. But their Tea Party overlords refused and they towed the party line. Now they have to face some pain, real pain, and the Democrats ought to have the edge in this deal. Last time, we offered the GOP a deal on a silver platter; now, we're offering one on a plastic saucer.

Everybody who thinks that we can eliminate the deficit and still take in a huge tax return at the end of the year is an idiot; I don't care if you are a Democrat, a Republican, or an Independent. It's that simple; all of us have to be paying more in taxes and getting less in benefits. It's that simple; you can't cut your way or tax your way to solvency. For revenues, the simplest thing to do is reform the corporate tax code and let the Bush tax cuts for everyone expire; those making $250,000 or above will have their cuts ended now, those below will get it for another year or two. You've got around $3.2 trillion right there. Later we can talk about major tax reform. For entitlements, simply eliminate the payroll cap for Social Security, keep the level of benefits the same, and index the benefits to inflation in a progressive manner; for Medicare, raise the payroll tax by 1.5%, increase Medicare Part D premiums to 35%, reform Medigap cost-sharing, and raise the retirement age by two years, and bundle all Medicare payments to providers by 2025. As for discretionary spending, freeze military spending at 2011 levels and eventually cut it down to 3.5% or 3.8% of GDP. As for social spending, merely reduce the growth in spending by 1.5% a year. And then you have roughly $6.3 trillion in deficit-reduction over 10 years, with revenues and spending cuts (and entitlement reform) being at a 55-45 deal. And that's only the big things; we could easily go for smaller stuff. And then we can end this crap and start focusing on jump-starting the economy.

They already deserve the blame for the partial mess we are in. Yes, Bush again. Yes, the non-compromising republicans. Yes, the walking out on deals that would have solved this problem years ago. Yes, the right wing extremists that now control the republican party. Yes, They are to blame now and forever. I won't vote for one again in my lifetime. Of course, I'm now 67, but I used to be a Goldwater republican!

I think we should raise the capital gains tax but use a bracket system , like

$0 to $100k tax rate 17% (as it is now)

$100k to $500k tax rate 18%

$500k to $1mil tax rate 19%

anything over 1mil is taxed at 20%

plus change the income tax rate to a straight 7% no deductions .

People may try to say that without deductions people wouldn't donate to charities but I doubt it will change that much . I would hope that there are a lot of people like me that donate a lot but I don't do it for a tax deduction , I do it because it's the right thing to do .

While blaming republicans is fun but I am going to say that they will share the blame if they can't work this out.

I know democrats say the tax rate has to go up, if they can find a way to increase the revenue, why does it matter how that is done?

Rob you are saying that 97% of Americans are getting a free ride? Why do I pay taxes again? You have been drinking too much Rush Limbaugh stupid juice.

Corporate welfare costs America more than the bottom 47% by far and right now we are seeing the top 1% balloon while the middle class is disappearing. Its all redistribution, you are just saying we should be giving the money away to the top 1% who are creating jobs in China. While I am sure China appreciates your efforts, we need to reward the people making jobs here.

Your attempts to suck Koch brother balls is weak, taxes are supposed to be based on percent of money controlled. Right now, we have corporations not paying anything and that is called corporate welfare.

Once again the libs on this site have a serious case of Obamanesia! Don't you remember how the Democrats had majorities in both the House and Senate during Obama's first two years in power and they did not do a DAMN thing! No budget, no Obamacare, no increase in the 1%ers tax rates, NOTHING! The American people spoke volumes when they slammed the door on the Democrats fingers in the 2010 midterm elections. They said NO to more taxes, NO to more spending, and HELL NO to more socialist actions! If there was a true turn to the liberal direction then why did the Democrats not take back the house? Because there are enough Americans who do not want what the Democrats are shovelling!

Please stop calling the Republicans the "Party of NO" and start calling the Democrats the party of "I don't know"! The democrats knew that if they did all of the bidding for Obama and his socialist brigade the electoral slaughter would have been even worse! The Democrats just keep saying "I don't know" why they couldn't pass through Obama's agenda when they had full power! They keep saying "I don't know" why they did not take back the House and seriously widen their lead in the Senate! And when, in 2014, the Republicans take more of an edge in the House and finally take back the Senate (In preparation of a Republican president in 2016) the Democrats will be asked why they lost and they will say, "I DON'T KNOW"!

The People spoke loud and clear this November by re-electing our President, strengthening Senate and adding a few more Democrats to Congress. The People are saying they expect Congress and/or the Republicans to come to a compromise in the best interest of this country. If not I would predict the People will once again during the mid-term election that Mitch McConnell and other Republicans have in front of them will be voted out and replaced by a Democratic majority in Congress and then we shall see real jobs being created. Republicans will not gain a majority again and we shall see forward progress and investment in OUR economy for the People and not the 1% as we have witnessed since 2001 in record amounts. We shall see industry returning to these shores once again instead of outsourcing to China and other countries. Isn't it time?

Dan M, if you get rid of your freak show of evangelicals there is a shot for republicans to win the senate and white house again. Right now the only ones benefiting from voting republican are white old males, and you simply don't have the numbers to support that.

You are completely uneducated (fox news viewer) if you believe the tripe your a spewing. I guess you think the Gallup polls were accurate too. LOL

People don't want bedroom police, people don't want the cruel self deportation idea. Elections are about more than money. And if you really believe that Obama is a socialist, you are an ignorant bigot.

"Rob you are saying that 97% of Americans are getting a free ride? Why do I pay taxes again? You have been drinking too much Rush Limbaugh stupid juice."

Oh, Jan. I'm not the one drinking the stupid juice. Where did I say 97% of Americans are getting a free ride? Follow me, Jan, if you possibly can: I was using the California tax increase as an illustration. And yes, 97% of California's population will not be affected by the income tax increase they just voted to approve.

Empress

you got the "SAP" part right

Jan followed by numbers

don't worry about the COH , that only applies to some other posters

Rob why should the top 1% be getting welfare? Why do you want the wealth redistributed to them through tax breaks?

Austerity does not work, try reading some non fox news tripe and some independent studies on it. California is too liberal, I have never suggested we should be that, but more tax cuts to the ballooning top 1% while we are amassing a deficit we will never dig ourselves out of? S&P downgraded our credit, citing two things, not addressing revenue and not addressing spending. Both have to be addressed or we will continue to add to that deficit.

People over 250k a year currently pay 60% of the taxes, now answer me this, how much wealth do they control?

Like our President House Representatives are elected, and will vote the will of their constituencies. It is government of and by the people. The people will get what they voted for. Representatives are not subject to somebody's "poll" data. However they will be listening to messaging coming from their electorate.

Intellect: "The People spoke loud and clear this November by re-electing our President, strengthening Senate and adding a few more Democrats to Congress."

By your logic then: The People spoke loud and clear in preserving the Republican majority in the House (all the more significant, given every House seat comes up for re-election every 2 yrs, unlike the Senate).

Perhaps you missed the polls where the majority said that if Obama was re-elected, and Senate-control retained by the Democrats, they wanted the House to remain Republican to preserve a check and balance in the Federal government. Perhaps relates to the fact that the majority still doesn't like the way Obamacare was pushed thru.

Rob, thank you for playing Miss Cleo, the democrats gained seats in the house and republicans redid the districts to make sure that they would hold the majority of the house. Unfortunately while people give a single digit approval rating for our congress, people do not seem inclined to vote "their" congressman out.

Ideally one party would not control them all, we simply need a congress that is willing to work together. So far that isn't happening and when you have a house speaker and the senate majority leader with one single minded goal to make our president a one term president, not much is likely to get done.

There is plenty of blame to go around, right now we need answers not more blame.

Time will tell with The World Economic Picture. For now, there is BIG debt Around the World, set off mainly due to an Unregulated Wall Street During and resulting from TheKing's Notoriously Expedient and Shameful Shrubber Reign 2001-2008. The SEC was "Reigned In" by TheKing and his "economic Advisors" (Ali Baba and The Forty Thieves), Large Trader Assault upon the rest of the World for pulling in EEEzzzzEEEE Money with "A Minimum Of Risk" due to "solid rock" Mortgage warehouses paying "Wonderful Dividends" when so many people were using their homes as personal Piggy Banks. What is going to Happen NOW??? ALL BETS ARE OFF THE TABLE. There May be a Solid Rebounding If the World Economic Centers Work Together to minimize the WORLD DEBT...Don't Know; To soon to tell.. Don't give up your Day Jobs, Hold Onto your cans of Pork n' Beans........

Jan: "Why do you want the wealth redistributed to them through tax breaks?"

You're deflecting. The wealthiest 1% of the population pays 40% of the Federal Tax bill. How much should they pay? 100%?

Remove all tax breaks for the 1%, and it still only covers 10% of the annual Federal deficit.

So your arguments may make for populist talking points, but they don't even begin to address the fiscal problem. Reality is, if we don't make dramatic spending cuts, everyone's taxes will need to increase substantially. America can't continue to borrow 40 cents out of every dollar it spends - it's unsustainable.

My point is that when everyone's paying higher taxes, maybe everyone will pay more attention to how their tax dollars are being spent. Politician accountability. Now there's a novel concept.

Jan, how am I a bigot because I do not believe in Obama's idea of America! I do not believe that the government has the right to take rights away because it is inconvenient to ALLOW people to have them! Freedom of Speech.... not if you are on talk radio! Freedom to bear arms..... not in the liberal galaxy, even though the Supreme Courts said that this was an individual right, not as the liberals like to say, a collective right which they can take away because the government feels threatened.

And how can you condemn the religious in this country for having their own beliefs. Obama wants Catholic employers, churches, hospitals and schools, to be forced to ignore their religious beliefs and give out "free" contraceptives! Obama and the left sneer at any individual's beliefs if they are not exactly as the liberals believe they should be! I am not a religious man, but, I am absolutely sick and tired of liberals calling these people zealots, fanatics, and froot loops, because they have a different faith system than the crazed liberals who now have a bit more control of this government than I would prefer!

Lastly, I call Obama a socialist because he has given all indications, throughout his life, that he IS! His father was an American hating socialist. His teenage mentor in Hawaii was such an avowed Marxist that he was on an FBI arrest list if there was ever war with the USSR! Obama taught the radical socialist beliefs of Saul Alinsky! He was educated by several extreme socialists throughout his college days! His religious mentor is an American-hating extremist!

Democrats tar any Republican with their past associations, even back to high school years, but they never want to receive the same treatment for their own candidates! Imagine a Republican running for President decades after he left a young girl to drown in an accident! Imagine the hue and cry if a past Republican presidential candidate was found out to have had an affair and a child during a run for the presidency! Imagine if George Bush had been found having sex with an intern in a White House office! Would the press be saying things like "It was only sex", or "oral sex is not really cheating", and would they accept lines like "Depends on what your definition of is, is!" Democrats and liberal politicians are lying, cheating, creeps who will and say anything to get elected and take from the American people all they can steal!

Rob, they should pay the equivalent of the wealth they control, that is how taxes are supposed to work. I did say we HAVE to address both spending and revenue, and Romney wanted to increase defense spending and that for me was a major issue.

Did I not expand on the accountability factor, I didn't vote for any incumbent for that reason. Gary Johnson got my vote, as he was the only one that had ideas that would actually address these things.

I completely agree we can't continue on this path, but we HAVE to get out of the business of war.

Jan: "the democrats gained seats in the house and republicans redid the districts to make sure that they would hold the majority of the house."

Re-districting cut both ways - here in Washington, one of the local seats, long-Republican held, went Democrat due to the addition of a Liberal area of Seattle's King Co. (which is so far Left, it wasn't harmed by the carve-off).

Jan: "There is plenty of blame to go around, right now we need answers not more blame."

You must be one of those do-as-I-say, not-as-I-do types, aren't you?

If you think Obama is a socialist you need a political science class, he is more like an old style moderate republican. He has not raised taxes, he has not restricted your guns and he took the REPUBLICAN written ACA and enacted it.

Why would I care about the sex life of an elected official? It doesn't matter the party, you are listening to Limbaugh and the republican entertainment industry has done nothing but lie.

Now tell me again how Obama has acted like a socialist? Actually in the republican written ACA abortion was covered.

Representatives are not subject to somebody's "poll" data. However they will be listening to messaging coming from their electorate.

Hahahahahahaha!

Try it! Have you emailed your Republican Congressman lately? You can't even get through without filling in lotsa crap. Then, after you do, you get a form response. See, Republican Representatives decided long ago they don't have to listen to their voters! They leave us without absolutely no choice but to vote their lazy asses out!

But that's OK! All this arguing about it makes no difference. Go ahead and stonewall, Republicans. All Obama has to do is hang tough. The tax cuts will expire, Obama will gain $0.25T per year from the deficit and look like a hero. That's a reduction of $2.5T over 10 years - more than any proposal from Republicans. Republicans will take the hit for looking obstructionist. You made your bed! You lie in it!

2014 is coming! 13 Republican Senators are up for re-election. Democrats may just get that supermajority.

No Rob, I didn't vote for incumbents did you? I am tired of bickering and name calling, it has done nothing but divide the nation. Are you part of the 1% is that why you are so interested in the money going there?

Some how they think falling off the cliff is our President's fault

It is. He is the one pulling Harry Reid's strings. But, I actually am hoping that the majority of Americans fall for the propaganda and vote in an all Democrat Congress. It is the only way Americans will learn what the Democrats are capable of and see what they do.

So, please, please, please vote out all Republicans so when the economy collapses the proper party will get the fullest brunt of the blame. And, yes, I am serious. At least I have dual citizenship to fall back on. Most Americans don't.

This is so sweet, I just can't stop laughing at the conservatives torment at the loss of so much during the last few days. Pure schadenfreude. The country will remain as strong as ever and the Repub's will just keep scratching their heads wondering why they lost. Doohh!

The ONLY President in the last half century who balanced the Federal budget, was the Democrat,Bill Clinton, AND he did it twice....his two predecessors were the Republicans George H.W. Bush, who won his election on the basis of his slogan "Read my lips,no new taxes"......he raised taxes though and was crushed trying for a 2nd term.

That other predecessor was Ronald Reagan (R), who raised taxes 11 times during his two terms, AND, when he left office, the USA's unemployment rate was at 9.4% !

Obama was elected President the first time, two months AFTER the Republican economic policies, and two calamitous Wars were started by George W Bush, the Republican ( who had been left with a $695 Billion dollar cash surplus from Bill Clinton.

The worst Economic crisis which the USA ever endured, was also caused by the loose business regulations imposed by Republicans, an even known as the Great Depression of 1929.

As Mitt Romney awaited election results this Election day at the Boston Convention Center in Boston, over 100 corporate and private jets arrived hoping to celebrate the election of a multi-millionaire, one of their own kind,who publicly proclaimed that wealthy people deserve the very low tax rates which millionaires and billionaires have in the USA.

As the returns were coming in, the owners of these Corporate and Private jets, sat inside their planes at the airport...Romney had paid for two large barges filled with fireworks to be ready to shoot up into the air...as the returns began to turn in favor of Obama, the Business and Private jets began turning on their engines, and they began taxiing to the runways to flee the Republican debacle.

The fleeing big wigs and multi millionaire created a traffic jam with their jets which caused the delay of over 75 airline flights out of Bostons Logan Airport.......as this happened...MITT ROMNEY personally called his credit card companies and CLOSED his accounts, leaving nearly 100 of his staffers in hotel rooms which they now had to pay for, and without transportation to their homes, no more meals on Mitt !

Obamas headquarters was filled with just every day people,like you and me..all winners !

2014 is coming! 13 Republican Senators are up for re-election. Democrats may just get that supermajority.

The far left that now is in control of the Democrat party and his leader President Barak Obama do not care about America, they care about to take back the congress and have the super majority at any means, even destroying the country, why ? because the only way to radicalize this country is having control of all branches of the Government .The far left prefer the fiscal cliff , Obama sign the Law, before get into an agreement with Republicans , because their goal is blame them for everything, the corrupt media will be there to help Obama like they did to get him reelected.

Like I care that 53% of Americans are going to blame the GOP. 98% of those Americans voted for President Obama and wouldnt admit failure if it bit them on the nose...and it has.

The humorous thing is...neither the GOP or President Obama are directly to blame. The only thing we have to blame for the fiscal cliff is entitlements... and that rests squarely on the shoulders of all Americans.

The Golden calf and his followers continue our downward spiral laziness.

Hey Rob,

I can't find anything I disagree with you about so far. Your second to last sentence of post 191 is wise. I've been arguing against Republicans wanting to be Democrat-lites for years now, and one way in which Republicans thought, like Democrats, that they could buy voters was in giving away free stuff. Democrats are far better at this though, and do it more directly so that voters can more easily connect getting something for nothing with voting for the liberal.

Still, Republicans felt it would help them to get poor voters or those who care about the poor to vote for Republicans by removing millions of the poor from the tax paying population. Not only didn't these people decide to vote for Republicans, but these same people decided that since they weren't footing any of the bill they would vote for even more free stuff than before. We, meaning Republicans, were always wrong to think that giving people something for nothing could turn out in any way other than a disaster. And now we have that disaster on our hands.

Nearly half of what we spend is done with borrowed money? Most of what the government does isn't even found as a power of the government in the Constitution? Democrats were always wrong about each of these issues. But when Republicans tried to mimic them just enough to earn even the slightest chance for more votes our pace towards crisis rapidly increased. We, meaning conservatives, may lose elections, but I would rather lose on principle, refusing to give more free stuff away--whether to businesses, rich, or poor--, than to lose while performing a pathetic impression of a 1960s liberal.

Jan: "Are you part of the 1% is that why you are so interested in the money going there?"

Far, far from it. But I've been involved in enough tax return preparation over the years to know that using the Buffetts and Romneys of the world as strawmen to support some class-warfare argument does nothing seriously to solve the fiscal problems this country faces. It only scores political points.

There simply aren't enough high-wealth individuals to go around to cover the deficit, even if you tax them back to the stone ages. The math just doesn't work. And if you look at their historical tax burden in terms of % of GDP, it's never been higher. So just how much higher do you want to make it?

"You cannot get enough money out of the 1% or 2 % to pay down the debt."

And I say you are full of chit. If the amount is so little WTF IS THE PROBELM? Why can the top couple percent not pay an extra 4% when the majority of their income comes from capital gains? Here is some math for you brainwashed morons. Total individual federal income tax was 1.12 trillion for 2011, with only 0.3 trillion provided by corporations for a total of 1.42 trillion. If 47% do not pay any federal income tax like you love to cry about how much do the 53% pay? 1.12 trillion paying only a 20% effective tax rate or LESS. Therefore, if we taxed people at 100% more or double what their taxes are now that would be 2.24 trillion in revenue or a 40% effective tax rate. Our deficit for the year was 1.27 trillion, 1.27 minus 1.12 equals 0.15 trillion in deficit...HOLY CHIT A BALANCED BUDGET!. You still have 60% LEFT OVER and have more then 95% of the people to do what you want with it. And yet you cry about not being rewarded...

High taxes are the only thing that forces an owner to make a choice. Either pay the government more money in taxes OR PAY THE WORKERS THAT MADE YOU YOUR MONEY more. That way there is no waste or middle man, how f***ing stupid are you? I do not want a handout I want 1/10 of what you make instead of 1/100 or 1/1000 HOW F***ING HARD IS THAT TO UNDERSTAND MORONS? You cannot be that dumb, but you must really want slaves that have no choice and are forced to work for script. It is not like I am asking for 50/50 like we really should be.

Still RWNJ crying bloody murder about the 47% of Americans that do not pay federal income tax. WTF DO YOU MORONS NOT UNDERSTAND? 47% of Americans DO NOT MAKE ENOUGH MONEY VERSUS WHAT THE TOP 1% MAKES. If they made more they could pay taxes and would not need handouts from your sorry a$$es. Stop shipping our jobs overseas so you can reward yourselves even more. Why is Bain/Mitt moving Sensata to China before the end of the year when they made record profits in 2011? So they can be even greedier and pay themselves more all while paying their workers less.

How do we increase the amount that workers make? RAISE TAXES ON THE RICH. There is nothing else to control or limit how much an owner tries to pay themselves. There is nothing to limit how LITTLE they attempt to pay their workers since it rewards them to do so. When they pay their employees more they are punishing themselves, they could be rewarding themselves with more $ instead, unless they do not have a choice to reward themselves more and more. They are forced to bring their workers or pack along with them like a real alpha/leader would, not leave them behind to fend for themselves and starve.

I dislike both parties, but for 4 years now I have been hearing you RWNJ CRY about Obama and how everything is his fault...WTF when our economy/debt has been in trouble since 1982 when we dropped the top tax rates from 70% to 50%. How about look at the low top tax rates we had right before the Great Depression of 25% and how much of a debt/deficit we had. How about the roaring 20's? Gee I wonder what happens when we lower taxes? Only a moron would want to lower to top tax rates even more.

RWNJs say "We need a leader" before the election, Obama gets reelected and states on more then one occasion " that taxes on the rich must go up". What does Boehner say? "We need the president to lead"...HE JUST DID YOU F***ING MORONS, CLEAN THE WAX OUT OF YOUR EARS SO YOU CAN HEAR HIM OR PULL YOUR FINGERS OUT OF YOUR EARS. You want a leader that wants what your moronic a$$es want, lower taxes so you can get even richer at the expense of the middle class and you are still butt hurt over it. Anything else you just ignore or make up B.S.

I mean you really want to talk about intelligent people? How about the wife in Arizona that ran over her husband for not voting and the fact that Obama was elected when Arizona's electoral votes went to Mitt? Meaning that his vote would not have matter anyway, but she still blamed him. Typical RWNJ. "We need lower top tax rates even though it has not worked in over 50 years"...

It would be amazing if this country were intelligent enough to actually know what the different government models are and how to analyze the people they elect.

Obama is interested in keeping the tax rates low on under 250k, read about Norquist sometime, that is who the GOP answers to and he is an oil lobbyist. Please tell me one thing that Obama has done that qualifies as extreme...mind you I will tell you that the ACA was written by the heritage foundation (republican). They lobbied for it until Obama took it up. Republicans are interested in the tax rates of the top 1%, that is their major difference.

The fiscal cliff is more like a slope, and while Jan 1st may come and go, a deal will be made before such time it drastically effects the economy. Right now both sides are doing quite a bit of posturing.

The ONLY President in the last half century who balanced the Federal budget, was the Democrat,Bill Clinton, AND he did it twice....his two predecessors were the Republicans George H.W. Bush, who won his election on the basis of his slogan "Read my lips,no new taxes"......he raised taxes though and was crushed trying for a 2nd term.

Newt Gingrich passed that budget

Solid posts Rob!

Tired, 60% left over? What? Start adding all the other taxes into the equation an idividual pays over and above taxes on that paycheck income. We are f-ing taxed enough! Start cutting from the overblown government! Is it truely time for a Revolution? I know you Liberals wouild have one hell of a time defending yourselves!

Jany

to a lefty "working together" means the other side giving in to their leftist ideological lunacy , the House isn't required to play by YOUR rules , sucks doesn't it?

oh and Jany , as long as your lips are firmly planted on George Soros' hind end , you hollering "Norquist" is pretty lame , timed , and played out , please visit Barry's website and pick up some new material , thanks

Sorry, but its Americas fault for voting for CONTINUED gridlock! NOTHING has changed...another 4 years of spend, spend spend! Good luck with that!

American Girl-724855 - First we need to hear Bush and his Republican Administration admit to lying us into an unfunded War in Iraq AND crashing the entire United States Economy.

HA. HA. HA. HA. HA. HA. HA. HA.

Iraq: 2003 Operation Iraqis Freedom (aka War at Iraq) was the Result of PRESIDENT CLINTON'S US Law, H.R.4655, "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" Justification Section 2 WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, Section 3 US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein, with US Congressional Appropriations.

With the First US Military Action being President Clinton's FAILED Operation Desert Fox resulting in the Islamic World naming the US the GREAT SATAN.

WHO ELIMINATED THE US LAWS THAT MADE ILLEGAL THE CAUSES OF THE PREVIOUS DEPRESSIONS. Resulting in the current $60 Trillion to $100 Trillion Global Economic Crisis consisting of the Mortgage Crisis, Wall Street Crisis, Financial Crisis, Banking Crisis, Credit Crisis, etc..

WHAT DID PRESIDENT OBAMA SPEND $2.1 TRILLION ON THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY NOT BUDGETED FOR (Demanded in President Obama's Proposal to US Congress), REQUIRING THE CURRENT "ACROSS THE BOARD" CUTS AS STATED BY PRESIDENT OBAMA IN HIS WRITTEN DEMAND TO US CONGRESS, INCLUDING THE CUTS TO THE ENTITLEMENTS AND BENEFITS FOR THE "47%".

Voters
Politicians manipulate voters every day with half-truths -- or outright lies -- about taxes, spending and many other issues that directly affect the nation's prosperity.

Too many voters embrace feel-good propaganda that they want to hear instead of learning the basic facts about issues they care about. They should do a better job of calling out dishonest politicians -- and shunning media outlets that stoke political food fights.

Pigotry - That Broad was not Well..Broadwell

What's the matter low self esteem, clearly I would rather be porking Broadwell than what you indicate by your avatar you look like and are, oik, oik, oik..

oskar,

I can't find a bigger fool on here any night other than your comments of ignorance! The extreme far right lost the election for the republican't party of NO! Now they give all the reasons they lost other than the truth which is because of ignorance like yours!

oskar,

I can't find a bigger fool on here any night other than your comments of ignorance! The extreme far right lost the election for the republican't party of NO! Now they give all the reasons they lost other than the truth which is because of ignorance like yours!

The American voters voted against everything the republicans tried to use to unseat President Obama. Sensible voters were not fooled by the republicans smoke and mirrors like die-hard republican voters were.

Republicans planned form the beginning of President Obama's first term, that they would create major gridlock on every issue the president brought before them, then blame the president for not working with them, and we were supposed to believe them. This is the total package, die-hard republican voters did believe them, and still believe them now. No amount of proof will convince them that they have been lied to and treated like idiots, but, republicans know what they tried to do, since it didn't work, one by one republicans are backing away from the original plan.

Since the republican agenda was voted down in the last election, republicans across the board are now thinking about their own political future and what it's going to cost them if they continue causing gridlock.

Some republicans that survived the last election, that signed the republican pledge of unity, are backing away from it, newly elected republicans refuse to sign it period.

The republican house of cards is beginning to fall down.

$4 trillion added to the debt after campaigning that he'd reduce the debt........ yeah, I can see how the left could still try to blame the GOP for the debt brought about by Lyndon Johnson's expansion of entitlements.

Subtitle to the article: "Give Credit Where It's Due."

USA Today reports that President Obama is beginning a series of meetings with representatives of various sectors to begin looking at solutions for the coming “fiscal cliff,” that time when the current tax rates end and then go up. Naturally, his first meetings are with Big Labor.

Obama will meet with leaders of the AFL-CIO, the SEIU, AFSCME, and the National Education Association.

"It’s bad enough that Obama is once again going straight to Big Labor first and foremost — even though labor unions are one of the causes of the down economy — Obama also invited the heads of several extremist, left-wing propaganda groups such as the Center for American Progress, the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities and MoveOn.org."

These later groups have no business at all being involved in negotiations for solutions to America’s fiscal crisis.

Obama has said that his primary focus will be to simply raise taxes on “the rich” instead of actually trying to solve our fiscal malaise and by inviting these extremist, left-wing groups as his first stop on the road to “solutions” I think we can begin to see that Obama has no interest in what is good for our fiscal health. His goal will be to push socialist-inspired, left-wing, anti-business policies.

To hell with you all. I hope it does crash. It would be far superior than to let the left drag the country down only somewhat slowly.

Then we can start to rebuild and commons sense will be the name of the game. You can bet that entitlements/wealth redistribution will NOT be part of any successful rebuild of the nation until many years from now when the leftist Leech Creep starts back.

The GOP House passed two budgets and 30 jobs bills in less than 2 years. The Senate obstructed any progress. The blame rests with the acting president and his Senate flunkies. Good Lord, when the Dems had the White House and both chambers of Congress Obama still could not lead his party or the nation. Why do you think it will be any better now?

So, let us get this over with and we can watch the fittest survive. That would include very few Democrats/liberals.

I can hear their "waaaaaaahhhhhs" now.

Forward off the cliff, I say. It'll be a grand old party...

@1.163 -- Rick said "In FY08, Bush's last year, the deficit was $459 billion."

You conveniently left out the fact that prior to 2009, government accounting rules did not include "special appropriations" in the deficit calculation, which means the costs of the Iraq & Afghanistan wars were not included in the 2008 deficit.

When you apply the new accounting rules that include ALL federal spending, Bush's 2008 deficit was well over a trillion dollars.

The scary thing is I think many of you believe what you are writing. Firstly, you want your taxes lowered while raising those of everyone else. Then you want spending cut, but not on things that effect you. You want your Social Security, but you don't want to pay in or support others in the program. You want "free" healthcare, but don't realize that government run healthcare isn't free nor what you expect. You want your loans "forgiven" but don't realize that by forgiving yours and everyone else's that your money can't be worth what it is today. You want massive debt spending, but don't realize that eventually the money hose will be turned off. You want "fairness" and "justice" at the expense of others, while not realizing that eventually that same mantra will be used against you.

Well, I guess we all can hope that the old saying is true: When you get hanged your neck breaks from the fall and then it's over. If your neck doesn't break you dangle and sufficate (very bad). Maybe we'll get lucky and our country's neck will break quickly in the fall, but I severely doubt it. I think that when the wheels start falling off it will look kind of similar to Greece- Where there will be riots in the streets of people wanting what they've grown accustomed to blaming everyone else for them no longer getting it. You think the riots will only be against the rich?- How about anyone that is different than you (as we've all been broken down into smaller and smaller groups. I'd say that none of us really reaizes the price we'll pay for governmental ineptness.

Why do you think the politicians are bowing out now? Maybe the rats see the ship is starting to list and getting off while they can. All I can really offer is get your situation straight now. Who knows where we'l be in a year or two, but you've got a chance now. Just get prepared to take care of yourself. If you have to depend on the government you'll likely have to sign away many of your freedoms. That's what kills me about today- far too many people are begging to the government to take care of them at any cost. You'll certainly get what you ask, but do you realize what you are giving up??

Fiscal responsibility is something required of both parties not just the right. This pre setup for blame
is an obvious attempt by the liberals to blame before anything has been done or proposed. You have to remember the progressive socialist want lots of money for expanding federal government and they want a freebee from the rich. They will make it totally impossible for the right to approve any bill put before them in good faith. Then bitch that they have been treated badly by the right. Still passing the fiscal buck, only this time before anything has been proposed. Liberal commie dick lickers need to fall in a void and stay there.

Trust2112

you post @ 1.17 is pretty smartass for a bubby that doesn't have a clue about the budget process , you post is pure fail as even the lefty favorite WikiStupid says:

"The President, according to the Budget Aand Accounting Act of 1921, must submit a budget to Congress each year..." , so on and so forth

get your act together and then spew vitriol at other posters , and yes even a line towing lefty ideologue like yourself can use the WWW , it's fun , it's easy , and sometimes it can keep you from looking like a chump

Tired followed by numbers

help us out with some new material , pretty stale stuff you have there

If the U.S. government ends up careening off the "fiscal cliff," Republicans in Congress stand to shoulder most of the blame, according to a new poll released Tuesday.

This is why I say, give them what they want....dont give them anything to blame. Let liberalism stand naked, with its shriveled extremity revealed!

I was just reading that other article about McAffee who is in some deep doo doo in Belize. He is some rich guy living in some foreign land no doubt to avoid taxes. It is a common thing with these super rich folks. They leave the U.S. to avoid taxes or hire foreigners to work cheap and deprive Americans of good jobs. I say we handle the budget deficit and debt by dealing with these cheapskates. These super rich guys always threaten to leave if taxes go up. I say fine, you do that, but don't expect to be safe. Then, when they go overseas, somehow their cars blow up with them in them from terrorists, or they get killed by raving mobs and gangsters. I can think of all sorts of nice accidents they can have that spies can provide. After all, what are spies for? Maybe we can "accidentally" shoot some of these rich people with our drones. When the rich catch on that their lives can get real short overseas, they will come running back to America, gladly pay 1950's and 1960's tax rates and hire Americans again at good wages. They will be grateful just to be safe. Fiscal worries are now over and we don't have to listen to these fiscal tightwads in congress any more. Those can go the way of the dodo bird.

It might give our spies something to do. It seems they have too much time on their hands to have affairs and such.

Tired followed by numbers

GET a job , earn some money ,then preach to us about "how it should be done , after all it isn't our fault that there is no way in hell that you will ever achieve any resemblance of wealth , hopefully you will spawn some offspring to help you in your later years 'cause you gotta long row to hoe at your pace

The ONLY President in the last half century who balanced the Federal budget, was the Democrat,Bill Clinton, AND he did it twice

So, that's why Clinton left office with a $5 trillion dollar national debt. Well, there is that and a little creative accounting and raiding of the Social Security Trust.

Couldn't the government just take the money from those that are to blame and fix this mess. And I mean all of their money. What could they do about it?

Right?

The above posts demonstrate the true answer. Republicans just don't get it. Not sure they ever will. But it is as funny as it gets watching them twist in the wind, playing the same old tunes that got them the loss. When you build a house on misinformation, the house will not stand.

Actually, the rich have not treated our spies well. The damage to national security is the fault of their cheap skate ways. They were better off in the WWII and cold war years under Roosevelt, Truman, and Johnson. I ran into an old CIA piece declassified in 1994 that said that the CIA had outposts throughout the United States and they would pay businessmen visits (saying they are CIA) to ask about any foreign encounters they had. I contemplated what that must have been like...to have a CIA guy flash his ID and ask stuff. It probably made these rich guys behave. I do not think they let the rich people pull the BS like they do now. I think that is why over time, the big rich boys wrecked the CIA. Now they made it a joke. The military and the spies are threatened like the poor. The best jobs for spies are to contain the rich like they contain the terrorists.

Most of the complex problems in our lives become manageable and less complicated when we reduce them to the lowest common denominator.

I am hired as the new manager of a seriously struggling retail business. I swear an oath to the owners of this business that I will devote all of my expertise and efforts to restore the business to it's former successful and profitable state. I must work with three crucial divisions in this business to get the job done. All of the division heads have also sworn an oath to the owners to make this business successful.

The first division is the sales staff. They work on commission and are barely able to pay their bills. They relate to me of dealing with many disgruntled customers that swear to never buy from our company again because of many unresolved complaints. They promise to work with me on all proposals that promise a return to healthy sales.

The second division is the warehouse and delivery staff. They tell me of a warehouse stacked to the roof with last year's inventory and idle delivery trucks that leave them little to do but worry about their jobs. They promise to assist me in any way to get the delivery trucks moving again and allow them to order new stock.

The third division is the service department. They have piles and piles of backed-up service orders to satisfy hundreds of customer complaints. Yet, they sit with thumbs up their butts and refuse to do anything. I later find that they made a secret pact with the former incompetent manager (that was fired) to obstruct me in every way so that the former manager may get his job back.

My oath to the owners and responsibility to the other hard working and suffering divisions is to demand that the service department immediately fall in step and go back to work or face the wrath of the owners. I have over forty years experience in management and know how to handle such a dilemma.

By reducing our failed government stagnation to the lowest common denominator (that even I can understand), I know what the President must do. Tell the service department(House of Representatives) to get back to work pronto or face the wrath of the owners(us) in 2014.

CaptainHeartMan said:

Couldn't the government just take the money from those that are to blame and fix this mess. And I mean all of their money. What could they do about it?

Right?

Right! Bingo! As everyone can tell, it is late at night and I have been reading this tightfisted "cut the poor" drivel for too long. I am feeling "enough already!" If they don't get it that no one wants that solution, then perhaps the problem needs to be solved with a little show of power. That they will understand.

It's getting boring beating the Republicans on a daily basis.

That's right! Because this is a sporting event with no consequences and not the future of our country. Vote a straight Liberal ticket and damn the consequences....as long as you can say "We're number one!" nothing else matters, right?

Now please pass the kool-aid.

Fiscal Cliff/Grand Bargain: It's class warfare stupid.

Galbraith is a son of the renowned economist John Kenneth Galbraith and Catherine (Kitty) Atwater Galbraith and is the brother of the former diplomat and commentator Peter W. Galbraith. He earned his BA, magna cum laude, from Harvard in 1974 and Ph.D from Yale in 1981, both in economics. From 1974 to 1975, Galbraith studied as a Marshall Scholar at King's College, Cambridge.[1]

Federal Spending Is Not Trapped by the Social Safety Net

AUG 2, 2012

James K. Galbraith

Setting the record straight on the math around entitlement programs.

The nub of Bill Keller's recent essay on why Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid must be cut is a graph – taken from a report by a group called Third Way – that compares federal “investments” with “entitlements,” showing that one is in decline and the other is on the rise. As a baby boomer, former Executive Director of the Joint Economic Committee, and an economist concerned with military matters (I chair the Board of Economists for Peace and Security), my antennae went up immediately.

Note, as Keller acknowledges, that the federal budget counts weapons systems as “investments.” Back in the 1960s, we were building nuclear bombers, submarines, missiles, and warheads; today we are downsizing that arsenal, happily unused. Does Mr. Keller really think that those “investments” had anything much to do with economic growth? If so, he's misinformed.

Even today, military procurement is around 40 percent of total federal “investment” – $221 billion out of about $540 billion in 2011, according to the Special Analyses in the Budget. Whatever you think of the F-35 and F- 22, it's just silly to add that number to (say) federal aid to education, another component of investment. The sum is not a gauge of anything.

On the budget, Mr. Keller then asserts that “the arithmetic simply doesn't work.” He does not explain, but no matter; he's again misinformed. How do we know? Partly because the markets have full confidence in the US fiscal position – evidenced by record low long-term interest rates. And if you don't trust the markets, you can also look at the numbers, as I do here.

In reality, an older population is partly the result of the great success of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, which have since the early 1970s protected elderly Americans from destitution. Naturally, they live longer. And as the elderly become more numerous, the payout of the programs that support them must rise. There is nothing wrong with this. And it is wholly sustainable. The right measure is the share of total spending on this population in total GDP; Social Security (OASDI) was under 4.5 percentage points in 2009 and is projected to rise to 6.5 percent over the next 75 years. By what conceivable argument is this a crisis? (For a detailed discussion of the question of “burden” see my testimony to the Federal Accounting Standards Advisory Board, February 25, 2009, co- authored with Warren Mosler and Randall Wray, available on request.)

Mr. Keller's proposal for a higher retirement age deserves a word. Today, a very high share of Social Security recipients take the early retirement option at 62. Raising the “retirement age” is just a benefit cut for these most vulnerable, lowest-paid workers. It's the cruelest and most dishonestly presented of all so-called Social Security “reforms.”...

http://www.nextnewdeal.net/federal-spending-not-trapped-social-safety-net

Freshieee: Excuses excuses excuses excuses. You see liberals just CAN'T look at facts - I think facts are to liberals what sunlight is to Dracula - I think it burns their eyes.

I gave you a list of FACTS after four years of an Obama administration - and you can't do anything but give excuses.

I can't argue with a liberal because they have difficulty staying on topic and discussing in an adult manner.

So let me just be very straightforward - no tax increases. You see you CAN'T increase government spending by over $1 Trillion THEN ask for more money. That is like a husband who makes $50,000 a year then his wife goes out and spends $75,000 a year. THEN tells the husband she can't cut her spending so he needs to go find a part-time job and bring at least SOMETHING additionally to help reduce their deficit.

Sorry, incompetence spending doesn't justify increased taxes. If liberals return government spending to 2007 levels THEN we can talk about tax increases to make up the difference. But not a penny more until you show some restraint on your out of control spending.

So here is the quick answer - No tax increases on just the "wealthy". You don't like it? tough. Learn how to live within your means. Or you can decide we ALL pay more taxes. Up to you.

Fiscal cliff is coming along with a tax raise for Obama care, Grab your ankles libs your getting what you wanted. taxes for the rich going up and free insurance

Jan-21270 (Post 1.193)

Rob, they should pay the equivalent of the wealth they control, that is how taxes are supposed to work.

NO, this is NOT how taxes are supposed to work!

This is the convoluted indoctrination you Liberals have allowed yourselves to be convinced of. Taxes are strictly collected to provide revenue for the function of our government as mandated by our Constitution.

Taxes are NOT a system of rewards and punishment on sectors of our society as you Liberals envision them. As American citizens we all agree to a contract with our government, this contract is our Constitution. As mandated it provides all of us specific functions, these are simply listed in Article 1, Section 8. These along with any state or local taxes are what we are responsible for. No more, no less.

Your contention that taxes should be based on wealth is not only wrong, it’s irrational. How can someone’s wealth be determined? If you own a business how do you assess its value? The only fair way is to sell it and see what the market will pay. For the same reason how can the values of your home, car, furnishings, and other assets be determined? Does the amount of wealth a member of the Board of Directors control to be calculated in their wealth? None of it can be. At least not by anyone and certainly not by our criminal government.

This goes to the Liberals dysfunctional belief that everything can somehow be “fair”. Everyone should pay their “fair share” and play on some mythical “level playing field”. Define fair. You can’t, because what you feel may be fair, I may not. There is no one on the planet that is totally honest, unbiased and non-partisan to arbitrate fairness. You may believe that taxing the upper 1% may be fair but that is not based on fairness, it’s based on your idea of fair. I have a deadbeat brother-in-law who hasn’t worked for 30 years because of a “bad back”, he believes everyone above the poverty level should pay 20% more in taxes, across the board. Do you think this is fair? He does. So who’s right?

We have endured our criminal progressive tax system for 100 years and we still can’t get it right. We have manipulated the tax rates every which way possible and there still is no consensus. The only constant we have is that historically, regardless of the tax rates, we collect revenues at about 18% of GDP. Yet we continue to argue about its effectiveness. Revenues are not the problem, spending is.

The OMB reports that, despite the Bush tax cuts, GDP was $2.568 trillion in 2007, the highest ever. Subsequently revenues, as a percentage of GDP, were 18.5%. Unfortunately Bush’s profligate spending was 20.8% of GDP. Simple math describes the problem.

As an aside, why do you Liberals believe that raising taxes on cigarettes, energy consumption, carbon production and other bogeymen will affect changes to decrease those activities but you don’t believe the same will happen when personal and corporate taxes are increased on investment, savings or other growth behaviors?

Greed isn’t someone wanting to keep more of what they earn, its people demanding a greater share of money that someone else has earned.

Probusiness,

I think you are a poor excuse to be sighting facts from what I've read. You probably believe O"Reilly's statement that, "Some media are pushing ideology rather than facts!" Da! Did he or you ever listen to FOX? Yes, they are, but no where worse than the LOL "Fair and Balanced????"

The "Fiscal Cliff" is really a "Fiscal Can" that the Liberal/Progressive lawmakers in America have been slowly creating with unsustainable entitlement programs.

Liberals want to kick the "Fiscal Can" down the road so our kids can deal with the problem.

This problem doesnt go away with out cuts to entitlement programs.

Cut the programs, cut the borrowing from China. Problem solved.

clwyd: Again, liberals cannot stay on topic. The question is "Fiscal Cliff" but you have to bring O'Reilly and Fox into the discussion? Fact of the matter is we have a president in Obama that has borrowed over $6 Trillion in the last 4 years with the plan to nearly double that over the NEXT four years. Obama increases government spending over 40 percent for each of his four years as compared to 2007 and YOUR reply is some comment about Fox News.

Fox News is NOT the reason we are on the verge of bankruptcy in this country. Fox News is NOT the reason why we have a government who has disdain and hatred towards those that actually succeed. Fox News is NOT the reason why Obama's only desire is to punish those that succeed even if it means raising taxes on the lower and middle class as well.

So it is very simple: No tax increases on anybody while we try to recover from an Obama failed economic policy. Obama is so determined to punish those that succeed he is willing to throw you and everybody else in this country under the bus to accomplish this desire to punish success. So it is up to you to tell your Democrat elected officials they have two choices. Extend all current tax rates - or not. It is up to you. Taxes on everybody goes up or taxes on nobody go up. Entirely up to you.

@ Pro Business

You can forget trying to get that point across.

They want the unsustainable programs...damn the simple math.

I told my wife before the election...Obama, win or lose, the country is already lost. If that many people are saying they will vote for this obvious, anti-American Socialist...it's only a matter of time before more corporations die out from attempting to make a profit in an anti-profit government supported by lazy, consumer guilt riden Americans who don't want to pay the consequences for their choices anymore.

That will result in less jobs.

That will result in more on the Government teat.

That will result in need of further Government money to compensate.

That will result in further control of Corporations via taxes and regulation.

That will result in more Corporations dying out

That will result in less jobs

etc...

etc...

I guess you get what you pay for. Republicans helped bring us to this cliff with $4,000,000,000,000+ down the drain for bush's lost wars and the right went right along with t. They got the left to go along with it with fake reports of Weapons of mass destruction! How can anyone not expect people earning almost $5,000 a week to pay more than 14% in taxes??????? All this to help offset the deficit that needs cuts and increased revenue!

Hi AZskibum,

In both points you made you are wrong. There is no new law which makes all deficit spending visible compared to before. There has never been a way to make deficit spending invisible. Yes, it in some cases didn't have to be "on budget", but this doesn't change the simple fact that debt had to be incurred in order to finance that "off budget" deficit spending. This is just one of the many untrue claims made by liberals.

And so the other claim you made, which was about the true size of the US federal deficit in FY08, is also wrong. All "off budget" deficit spending is still included in the total indebtedness figure that anyone with even a room temperature IQ can discover just by looking at the current (end of FY08 in this case) total federal indebtedness and then subtracting the previous cumulative total. A positive number means we had a deficit, a negative number means a surplus. You can look for yourself that we have never had a negative number since FY69. Ooops! ANOTHER lie told by liberals? You mean Clinton really didn't have a surplus? What to do!

In any case, the Bush Stimulus AND the costs of both wars were included in the total federal indebtedness numbers, and so your claim the FY08 deficit was more than a trillion is flat out false. It was just what I wrote: $459 billion. Which is nothing to crow about, but it puts the lie to claims made by people like you about how Mr. Obama is such a penny pincher. Sorry bum. Try again. But this time either make a case without false claims in it, or try to persuade someone who isn't smart enough to notice. Hint: Try making your case to a liberal.

clwyd: What a warped logic Liberals have. Bush DID borrow $4 Trillion - and many of us Conservatives were YELLING AND SCREAMING to stop the borrowing!! But Bush borrowed $4 Trillion in EIGHT YEARS!! Obama has already borrowed $6 Trillion in FOUR YEARS and it is projected that the NEXT four years could cost as much as $10 Trillion more.

So I have a suggestion for you: Bring yourself to 2012. Bush has not been president for four years. This is OBAMA'S economy now - and it doesn't look good. But that is what you get when you have disdain and hatred toward businesses and individuals with money. You see businesses and individuals with capital are the only ones that CAN create jobs and Obama has hated them and tried to punish them at every opportunity. THAT is the reason we have an unemployment rate near 8% and rising. THAT is the reason we have a stagnant economy growing at less than 2%. THAT is the reason we have a 40% increase of those on Food Stamps. THAT is the reason we have added 5.4 million to Social Security Disability under the Obama Administration (when there are very few jobs created due to a failing economy many find a way to be classified as "disabled" and drop out of the labor force). THAT is the reason we have 1 in 6 now in Poverty. THAT is the reason we have the lowest labor-participation rate since the 70's. THAT is the reason we have the highest percent of unemployed 6 months or more since the Great Depression.

No, this economy is the Obama economy where 2% growth and 7.9% unemployment is considered "normal". Maybe in a FAILED economy it is - but not historically in once was the greatest country in the world.

So the end result is Obama has collapsed this economy and wants to collapse it further by taking money OUT of the private sector where jobs CAN be created and giving to a bloated government that CANNOT create jobs.

But you liberals get what you voted for. You voted for four more years of failure so that is what you will get. But we will not let you punish the only remaining people trying to succeed in this new failed economy. So the choice is clear: Either we ALL pay higher taxes or NOBODY pays higher taxes. I know that ticks you off not being able to punish those that succeed but it is what it is. As Obama said four years ago "elections have consequences" and he is right. The election put a failed leader like Obama in office for another four years and the election put a Republican House in office to make sure Obama could not cause catastrophic failure to this economy by punishing the only people left that can save what once was a great nation.

So you have a choice: Taxes raised on everybody or nobody. It is up to you.

Sabot: I am well aware. Liberals don't understand that Obama actually WANTS the economy to collapse. THAT is his goal. Why? Because when the "people" are afraid they turn to government who promises "safety". History has shown to control the people they must rely on government for survival. So you continue to cause a declining economy, people continue to worry about where to find a job, they ask the government for help, government promises food/shelter/money, but we must take it from the wealthy and it is the evil wealthy that is the reason they cannot eat and cannot succeed. But it is actually government holding them down - intentionally. Think about it: if the economy was growing at 6% or 8% a year would ANYBODY need to rely on government? No. But if THAT happens why would anybody vote for Democrats? So they intentionally cause a declining economy by increased regulations and increased taxes.

But Benjamin Franklin said it best when he said “Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security”.

Of course Franklin ALSO said "He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else". That fits President Obama perfectly.

Going off the fiscal cliff will hurt in the short term, but I think we will be better off in the long term.

I doubt that, it'll last until the long term then.

WHAT FLAVOR KOOL-AID are you Democrats and liberals drinking these days?!

Obama hasn't passed a budget since he's been president, and it's pure stupidity to blame the GOP for falling off the "fiscal cliff" since Obama has REFUSED to negotiate with the Republicans.

I wasn't a big fan of Slick Willy, but at least he was willing to compromise and negotiate with the GOP. Yet Barry has this "take all and win" philosophy or "pick up the marbles and go home" immature mentality.

It's ironic how most Republicans and conservatives can see fault in their own political candidates or office holders, yet liberals and Democrats see "no wrong" in their representatives. Were it not for the TEA party, there would be little or no talk of the fiscal cliff since all of Barry's budgets would have been passed and "disaster averted" since all of the Dems fiscal proposals would have been rubber stamped along the way.

Most EU countries are either bankrupt or on the verge of insolvency, yet Obama wants the US to resemble the EU? It is not a coincidence that most Obama supporters seem to be clueless regarding Barry's policies or positions regarding anything of importance for our county's future. Blame Bush and the GOP on all of the country's woes they would say...

DC is burning like Rome back in the day after the age of the Caesars came to a close, yet no one seems to be smelling the smoke from the smoldering fires. If the US continues to follow Barry into the abyss, this country is toast, whether you want to admit it or not. The spending is unsustainable, even with tax hikes. Welcome to the USSA!

Probusiness,

Your latest comment about the president wanting the economy to collapse shows a total lack of gray matter! No wonder the republicans were surprised they lost. They actually think they make sense!

Oh my how quickly we change our tune since Nov. 6th. Two articles by the liberal press are suggesting that the Republicans may have the right idea after all? Romney was wrong, now he'd be an asset? What BS? Where is Obama's leadership and HIS ideas that will work? He had a plan? We just never knew what it was other than to raise taxes. Now you know, his poker face was a bluff. The voters who got him re-elected. I wonder how many of them even care or know what the fiscal cliff dilemma is about. The sheep are so easily lead. Obama offers to compromise, but on his terms. LOL Gingrich held Clinton's feet to the fire when things needed to be done in the 90's and we prospered because of that. That is what so many refuse to remember. It was a two way street, not Clinton's mandate. He worked it out with congress. Obama runs from congress. Who dares do that to Obama and even so, would he acquiesce if they did? His ideology is such that I fear not. We need bi-partisanship to make this country work. I'm one disgusted Independent, and happy that I don't blindly vote down a party line. I who would like see someone, anyone, in Washington work for the people and not for their party. Divided we are falling and not just over a fiscal cliff.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/49803756/

http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/20121114_A_Romney-Clinton_commission_.html

Hi Clwyd,

You mentioned before you were of the older variety, so you may already know this. I found it interesting in any event, not because it argues against your position so much, but it helps to explain liberalism so well. In 1963, shortly before his death, JFK was speaking in the WH to his political advisors about the campaign that was getting underway. During that conversation (this is all on tape btw) JFK asked at what income level people would no longer reliably vote for a Democrat. The answer was $10,000 per year. There was no discussion about what to do to prevent incomes from rising to that level to cause Democrats worry, but why ask the question if there wasn't a preference to keep people just poor enough, or less wealthy enough, to keep them voting for Democrats?

So while I don't agree with the general claim that Mr. Obama wants to destroy the economy, I do think that looking at his policies it is clear he doesn't want it to thrive either. The point made above, which you didn't respond to but which makes perfect logical sense, is what would voters do if they no longer felt they needed to vote for more free stuff because they were able to earn it on their own. The answer is they would be less reliable votes for Democrats. My bet is that Mr. Obama wants an economy just healthy enough to keep most people employed (and distracted with divisive comments about "the rich" among other things), but just unhealthy enough so that voters will continue to look to DC for the very sustenance Democrats claim they will provide.

What a shame we've been reduced to this. Free people now essentially little better than street corner beggars holding up signs saying they will work for food. Can a great nation long survive if its people are so morally destitute as to steal money from future Americans in order to live beyond their means today?

Hate us Conservatives all you want - it doesn't matter to me. But for Democrats to say they are willing to "compromise" is laughable. They initiate and increase government spending by more than 40% than just 5 years ago THEN say we can't afford the deficit so must tax "the rich". You want compromise? Okay here it is: You want tax rate increases. Republicans want tax rate decreases. Okay let's compromise and meet in the middle: So we just won't change the current tax rates. There, compromise completed.

But there is a problem. They have increased our deficit by $1 trillion a YEAR but these "tax increases on the wealthy" will only bring in about $60 billion a year (and that is assuming the economy is not drastically and negatively affected which it will). So let me see if I get this straight: Increase spending/borrowing by $1 Trillion a year and then ask for $60 billion in additional revenue. For those who get lost in the number of zeroes, and what that means, let me make it simpler for you to understand.

That is like a family adding $100,000 of additional spending/borrowing a year then asking the husband to take a $6,000 a year part-time job to help pay for it. It is nothing. It doesn't even make a dent. No, since we ADDED $1 Trillion in NEW spending then we CUT $1 Trillion in spending FIRST and THEN we can talk about tax increases to make up the difference.

So Republicans are standing firm. You have a decision to make. Either we cut spending or ALL of us kick in more a year to cover some of this. BTW, even if next year we were able to balance the budget (sorry, I was just ROFLMAO!!) it is mathematically impossible to ever pay back to $16 Trillion we already owe PLUS the over $100 Trillion in Unfunded Liabilities. At least impossible to pay back over the next, say, 100 years.

So we as a country are screwed. We are bankrupt. We WILL collapse the only question is whether it is next year or 5 years from now. But Liberals don't care which was made obvious by the last election. But a decision still needs to be made: Do we massively cut spending or increase taxes. If you decide the later then EVERYBODY kicks in more taxes - at least up until the collapse of the economy.

your name says it all if you are probuisness than you are anti American period. Buisnesses have been sending jobs overseas for years these people are evil and immoral.

Blame Bush , Blame Mittens, and now finally blame the GOP.

Grow up and take responsibilty for your own actions.

American Girl:

(1) When did Republicans ever accept responsibility for lying us into war, and for crashing the entire United States Economy? and

Or how about the hordes of democrats who also voted to go to war with Iraq? They had access to the same intelligence reports that Bush had. Kerry, Biden, etc are equally guilty. Clinton wanted to invade towards the end of his administration but knew Congress would not buy into it at the time. We admittedly became a little trigger-happy after 9/11 so it was an easier sell.

Also, Bush alone did not crash the economy in 2008. This is a lie perpetually spread by the dems. He certainly contributed to the debt but this was not what caused the economic crash. The housing market did this. Factcheck.org spread the blame nicely and includes a certain Clinton administration for its contribution to the crisis. Where are your howls about that?

(2) What is it that you say that Democrats have done for which they are NOT taking responsibility?

How about a bipartisan agreement that dems as well as reps contributed to the financial crash of 2008?

How about dems lying about the true reason behind high gas prices? Pelosi and H. Clinton planted the blame on Bush back in 2006 yet we're still seeing high gas prices in 2012. Obama blamed the lack of an energy policy. Where is his? Why does Obama get a pass on gas prices when Bush did not?

What about the democrats' hypocrisy concerning the patriot act? They criticized it before 2008 but now Obama expanded it??

Hey Rich-281385, you had a lot of posts, with a lot of incorrect information, however, I just would like to comment on a few of the overarching ideas you presented. First, I briefly looked at the post of some ignoramus, and I immediately saw he said something like, "Everyone should have some skin in the game", referring to taxation on poor people. I know this theme has died down in the Republican party, but I just have to point out how contradictory it is. So after years of campaigning on lower taxes on everybody ( In reality rich people), you are now saying we need to raise taxes on poor people, so everyone can have some "Skin in the game". Hopefully, you can see the contradiction there. Also, I'd like to touch on another central theme in you posts here. You often mentioned that Obama won by giving out the most free stuff. That statement is so divorced from reality that it isn't even funny. When you hear that statement, what is missing is the electoral map. When you say the "47%", I can only assume that your talking about poor people. However, the poor people that your talking about are almost concentrated in states that Obama would never win. Do you really think that if he gives out enough free stuff to the poverty stricken areas of Louisiana, or Mississippi, he would ever win? What you equate to free stuff for "those people", I equate to life saving healthcare that they would not otherwise have access to .

Where did this attempt at side tracking come from of taxing the rich their fair share would not solve our fiscal problems, so forget it,come from ? No one has claimed that it would do so. The cry to insist on them going back to a more realistic time is because they have to go back to a fairer time is all that the majority of us are demanding. The _2% have been allowed to avoid our economic depression to the obscene degree and their minions in our elected government,to the detriment of all of the rest of us,want to continue to enable them to increase their ridiculous wealth gap ,even though the rest of us are paying for them to continue.

Here is the thing;

Republicans are on their decline. They are searching for another D. Eisenhower to reunite the party. It was not Mitt, and it is not J Bohner. The main problem of the Republican is that they don't believe they have a problem...

If this continues, the Republican party will break into 2 fractions (Hardline Social Republicans and Fiscal Conservative Republicans). Both of them will not mount to much. This may be good or bad, because the country will most likely start its infrustructure rebuilding. The economic expansion will be slow as it always is with laying down of foundation for the next generation. The current Republicans are so far off the orginal platform of decade past... no, I don't mean social platform, because those are not human principles or morals that may alter with time. However, building an empire has always been the same!!! An empire can never stand one leg, it require multiple legs.

Democrats will try to regain 19 seats in the House. John Bohner will try his best to keep his speaker position by reminding his fellow Republican memebers how he save their asses by redistricting. Unfortunately, the divisive positions that the TeaBag/Ultra Conservative Idealists such as Canter will continue to chip away John Bohner's leadership... It will be up to the WhiteHouse to throw him a bone so that he can keep his leadership position, because the alternate solution of working with Canter is even worse!!! (or better... because it will ensure a faster House Republican implosion)

In all methods, the ball is actually in the Republican's court, but there isn't much they can do to WIN. Perhaps, the Republicans should take it as what it is... POLITICS. A matter negotiation and compromises between grown adults....

? wishful thinking? perhaps, but we are adults... no???

I guess you get what you pay for. Republicans helped bring us to this cliff with $4,000,000,000,000+ down the drain for bush's lost wars and the right went right along with t.

Bush did that in two terms. Obama did worse in one.

They got the left to go along with it with fake reports of Weapons of mass destruction!

You have not told the whole story. Clinton himself stated on the record that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction before Bush ever got into office. The Bush Administration had bad intelligence that resulted from Clinton's draconian cuts of the intelligence budget.

Something real that Hussein had at the time, but which the Bush Administration did not yet know, was that Hussein still had his nuclear aspirations and also had accurate plans and schematics that would have allowed him to build a function nuclear weapon. He also had over 550 metric tons of yellowcake uranium to enrich to do it. He already was hampered in his plans by what had occurred before but the invasion of the US completely ended those plans and confiscated accurate nuclear bomb schematics.

The plans and schematics on the internet would not and cannot result in the building of a functional nuclear bomb. Saddam Hussein's bomb schematics would have. The world could not afford for a madman to have access to nuclear weapons technology. And if you do not believe that Hussein was a madman, what do you think about the Qur'an he was having written for him, using his own blood?