Damn... dont we already have record unemployment.

wswalcott,

Wherever you are from, trust me, I have pride 10 times stronger in my country than you will ever have in yours. And even though this election just about killed me, it will never break me, because I know that if you keep fighting for what is right, eventually things will work themselves out for the right way. That is the American Way.

I wonder if anyone has wondered if we had outsourced as many jobs to Mexico as we have to China, Mexicos economy would be stronger than ours and we would be jumping the border to get jobs there. Hell, we wouldn't even have to learn spanish, they don't learn english.

Proud2bLiberal... sounds alot like a white supremacists with that rhetoric. While I believe the IDEALS of Marxism, Communism has permeated our politics by the democrats.. it is not "color centric". Simply put while the Democrats USES the minority as a bludgeon for a Liberal agenda, the "color" of the electorate naturally will be more diverse.

What is evident is that the Dems keep the "state" in charge and destroy individual rights. It is no accident that the last 4 years hit the minority population the hardest.... do you think they would be inclined to "vote" for a administration that played ninth hour politics if the economics where better?

I'm not a conspiracy theorist but one does wonder about Fast and Furious.. which basically armed drug cartel contributed to a increase of "deadly illegal" immigration.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/17/border-crossing-deaths-illegal-immigration_n_1783912.html

Couple this with conflating the "counting process":

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/02/obama-is-accused-of-inflating-his-deportation-numbers-whats-really-happening/

And you get a "decrease of Illegals" but and increase in policies that denigrate the citizen and elevate the "undocumented".

Black and Brown people will continue to suffer high unemployment as the morality is replaced with legislation. Most Latinos, African Americans are CONSERVATIVE in their beliefs... The very thing that we "clung to" in the civil rights movement will be the 1st thing that Obama disassemble... guaranteeing a perpetual reliance on the state and thereby ensuring the Vote.

Guess the Vietnamese got you by the balls now.

@ XenophobicVet, post 1.1

I can understand your dissatisfaction with the President's Immigration Policy, I am too. But I'm not willing to elect a man that ran off to France while, you if your name here implies you are a vet were serving your country. I too have a son that is serving his country in Afghanistan and I would never disgrace him by putting a coward of a man in charge of him. The Republican Party has a long way to go before I vote for them again and they should start by telling the true rather than all the lying they have done these last 4 years. Learn to work together or they won't be working at all!

It has been said, that each generation carries inside it, gifts from prior generations and ancestors past. To help it fulfill its destiny of making the world a better place and creating more good, eliminating more evil than those born before have ever done. If we would just remember, by going far enough back, each of us becomes connected together as a family. And like all families, there are bound to be disagreements, different opinions and hard feelings perhaps at times. Beneath all those differences, I hope we can focus on our shared humanity. As long as we are willing to keep listening, there is always the hope of finding an answer all can live with. If you want to point a finger, why not open your hand instead to see if another way could be found.What would be a second alternative that is within reason, or just how much can you think outside the box? Opportunities for tremendous growth so often mask themselves as problems. We can find a solution if we work together and remember we all are human after all.

Hey Steven,

How is this for a thought out process to solve the problem. We make this country so pitiful and poor that no one wants to come here. J/K

In my experience, the only people that support ILLEGAL immigrants are if the person themselves are an illegal, they are related to an illegal or they are making money off the illegals.

No true American citizen would support ILLEGAL immigrants over their own countrymen.

No doubt that immigration reform will be a contentious issue. Simply opening the borders or amnesty for all is not the solution in the best interest of the country. It is the solution if you are the party trying to garner or maintain a voting bloc.

Reform should take shape by means of eliminating every incentive for coming here illegally. Anchor babies for one example. Then streamline the process for those that have reason or incentive to come here to work and not to take advantage of handouts.

Right now the US makes it extremely inviting to enter this country illegally, and so they do. We are sending tons of tax dollars south of the border in the form of welfare payments for those that came here to scam the system. California is going bankrupt in part because of illegal immigration. Reform needs not be political, but who really believes it will happen any other way from both sides of the isle?

Careful what you wish for. This is what is coming to America:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM9uH4XgOmI

They DO NOT care about America:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4YgFADhTsM&feature=related

“We need to avoid a white backlash by using codes understood by Latinos…non-Latinos aren’t watching, they aren’t raising questions”–Fernando Guerra, professor, Loyola Marymount

“They‘re afraid we’re going to take over the governmental institutions and other institutions. They’re right. We will take them over. We are here to stay.” — Richard Alatorre, Los Angeles City Council

“We have an aging white America. They are not making babies. They are dying. The explosion is in our population… I love it. They are ******** in their pants with fear. I love it.”, “We have got to eliminate the gringo, and what I mean by that is if the worst comes to the worst, we have got to kill him.”– Professor Jose Angel Gutierrez, University of Texas.

And the shirts and ties of the new fashion line of your Republican hero, China basher and fist-class whackadoodle, Donald Trump, are all made in China and Bangladesh.

As Mr. Rogers would say "Can you say hypocrites?"

I do not understand how the left can defend amnesty for those who openly violate the law. Both sides support and defend immigration, when those who wish to come to this country do so in accordance with the laws and regulations. Why should Mexicans be allowed to come into country without authorization, but the Mexican government would immediately deport (first offense) or imprision (second offense) anyone who enters Mexico without authorization. Why should we expect our legislature to make laws or our law enforcement to enforce laws, if our executive branch will not defend our laws? This is not an immigration argument, it is a law enforcement issue.

We don't need to constantly reform immigration policy. We do need to enforce the LEGAL policy we have, and enact voter ID laws for ALL States.

John 737, if that was me you are addressing I think that is just another stupid, terrified, and illogical idea that shows you would rather just rant and lash out with stupid comments than direct your anger towards those (OUR ENTIRE GOVERNMENT) who have created and benefited from this mess. Making this country that poor will ruin all of us so it is not a solution nor is it Obama's mission which I suspect is your poorly veiled and illogical end-point.

You do see now why Hispanics voted the way they did.

Total fools think they voted for Obama. No, they voted for Hispanics. All they wanted is what benefits La Raza. They do not care about America, much less Obama. They only care about La Raza.

Xeno Vet, and that makes them different from you how........? While that sentiment may well exist, it does in all cultures amongst a minority of people (Germans, Greeks, assorted African countries, ESPECIALLY the Chineese and Japanese) as well as our own. The only war is keeping those people, yourself included, penned in so that we dont slide into a Nazi Germany situatiuon simply to protect your wildly exagerated fear of the external plots against your whiteness.

Bill-2910238I do not understand how the left can defend amnesty for those who openly violate the law.

Its not just the left genius. Reagan granted amnesty to 3 million illegals in the 80's.

ROMNEY HIRED ILLEGALS FOR YEARS, CAUGHT TWICE!

Republicon Mittster Romney had no problem hiring illegal Guatemalans to do his and his son's lawn work for about 8 years. After he was caught, he turned right around and hired another crew of them.. When caught the second time reporters asked him about it and Mittster replied..."Aw Geez"...and walked away.

The multimillionaire, with all that money, couldn't hire some Americans......too cheap, too unAmerican to hire Americans....the head of the republicons...and he hires illegals.......what a bunch of hyopcrytes.

Some of my family members just came to this country about 3 months ago after WAITING 15 YEARS. Their brothers and sisters are STILL WAITING for their turn to come to the US. Why does Obama only think it is fair to allow someone to stay if they had snuck into the country? It makes my family members and everyone else sick to their stomachs.

These people who came into this country illegally no doubt had help from either relatives or friends who were already in the country.

Would it be easier if I just hid my relatives? Because that is precisely what President Obama is forcing us to do..... Why should anyone be granted amnesty from crossing the borders illegally?

Obama is catering to the latino population and forgetting about everyone else.

Oh and for the record, my family members are minorities and not of European descent.

Charlie...you are correct. A move toward progressive liberal ideas has been the way almost all civilizations have gone. It's the way we are headed. It's the way Rome went too.

Torres...that's great. You go get your degrees and make the big bucks and leave your fellow Americans behind to deal with low wages because the illegals suppress wages. Classical.

Charlie-1915998:

Ask the people of occupied Europe what it was like to live under NAZI rule. Why do the idiots who defend these third world invaders think it will be any different?

"Ignorance is bliss"

Hell, hs321, Greece has arrived there, and look how that's working out for them! Good post!

Oh, and don't mind Charlie. He just found out its easier to vote for entitlements than to earn them.

hs321

Torres...that's great. You go get your degrees and make the big bucks and leave your fellow Americans behind to deal with low wages because the illegals suppress wages. Classical.

and Hispanic businesses don't hire white Americans.

Republicans are not against immigration, are against illegal immigration, period.

We need a reform that punish the lawbreakers , not reward them, we need a law that held accountable the ones the help illegals to stay, we need laws that take away federal money from sanctuary cities, we need laws that expedite LEGAL immigration to supply the need of TEMPORARY OR SEASONAL JOBS, we need a law that cut the red tape for people who submit their applications for LEGAL immigration (5 years average is outrageous) we need to close the borders bringing our military from overseas. No path to citizenship for illegal immigrants who are allowed to stay, permanent residence is all they need to have all the right that any American citizen have but the right to vote, only LEGAL immigrants can be GRANTED with such an honor. What to do with the people that are already here ,it is simple ; the people that have job , primary reason illegals are here will stay, the ones that not must go back to their country base on merits , that require more details, no more welfare to illegals, the guys with any kind of criminal record will go, no more illegal criminals on the streets killing people driving drunk without license. We all must agree to fight ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.

SpcTorres

People hate to admit it, but they do jobs that none of us want. I've worked along side some illegals and americans in the fields and at poultry plants, and in both instances legal citizens come there, work for a little bit and then quit. A lot of those jobs wanted to hire american citizens, but after doing the job for a little while, they said the hell with this and quit. Even in a failing economy they viewed themselves to good to work at these kinds of jobs. I, myself, quit and went on to earn my associates and bachelors in IT so that I wouldn't have to do such crappy jobs. If they wanna do the jobs that I don't wanna do, more power to them.

While Mexicans were nice and safe picking crops in America, Americans were dying, fighting the wars that MEXICO refused to fight.

wswalcott, your comment is absurd. I was BORN in this country and so were my parents. You liberals and your tired old "we're all immigrants" argument has no merit. My ancestors came over here, learned the language and got jobs. They did not reproduce at alarming rates, refuse to assimilate and bleed the welfare system dry while insisting on special treatment from the very people who pay for these benefits.

hs321

Charlie...you are correct. A move toward progressive liberal ideas has been the way almost all civilizations have gone. It's the way we are headed. It's the way Rome went too.

And conservative countries like Iraq and Iran are a beacon for social development.

XenophobicVet

People from south of the border have been forcing THEIR WILL on the American people through an invasion that has been going on for decades.

What about people right here in the United States (Citizens) that have been forcing their religious beliefs on us for decades? What about citizens here denying equal marriage rights for gays/lesbians, but forcing their right to tax us without the same rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? What about the GOP and their supporters trying to force us to believe that GOD ordained legitimate rape. DO NOT throw stones in a glass house.

As for illegal immigration. It needs to stop. There are legal means for all people to immigrate to this country. For those who are here illegally, you do not qualify for any social assistance from my tax dollars. Illegals need to be on the path to american citizenship or they need to go back to their country of origin.

We've heard it right here in this article folks that our representatives want immigration reform to garner votes.The American people, which include those who immigrated legally to this country, do not want immigration reform.they want our laws upheld.I know many who have come to America legally and became citizens.they have all said the same thing that this is a slap in their face.I find that catering to one group of a race,Hispanic in this case,to be an act of discrimination.People were outraged when Caucasians were favored in America and should be outraged by our leaders catering to Hispanics simply to get their vote.

ItsAboutTime-3704531:

How about the American taxpayer paid for "FREE" education that illegal aliens get however Americans who attend a Catholic school never get reimbursed for the education they had to pay for themselves?

XenophobicVet

For those who are here illegally, you do not qualify for any social assistance from my tax dollars #1.54

Please re read my comment above... I do not support illegal immigrants having access to any American tax funded programs. I moved to Texas and considered going back to school. I was informed I would have to pay out of state tuition while illegal immigrants qualified for instate tuition. So trust me, I know about reverse discrimination.

As for Americans who have to pay for a catholic school and not getting reimbursed. That's THEIR choice, we have public schools for people to attend.

I'd recommend you be careful about illegal immigrants enforcing their culture on us, there is plenty of American citizens who FEEL they have the religious right to enforce their beliefs on us as well and in clear violation of the United States Constitution.

God bless, you X-Vet...been reading your posts and you are SPOT ON, my friend

keep up the fight

and may the road rise to meet you

Stan Chadko, u are an idiot.

We are a country of immigrants. In today's world, however, we have people entering our country illegally and then finding support and assistance at the hands of the taxpayer- that is what I take issue with.

Come here legally and we are like brothers as far as I'm concerned as we share the same legacy of those brave souls who came to this country in search of a better existence.

The other issue is terrorism. The world is too dangerous to allow people to 'jump the fence' and get away. We need to control our borders and not allow people to come & go at whim.

SpcTorres

People hate to admit it, but they do jobs that none of us want. I've worked along side some illegals and americans Americans (with capital letter please) in the fields and at poultry plants, and in both instances legal citizens come there, work for a little bit and then quit.

Torres there is the problem, we don't have a good system that provide visas for seasonal jobs, we need seasonal labor but it must be in legal manners, that include compromise from the employer to provide health benefits and housing for their workers, one the season is over they must orderly return to their country with well earned money in their pocket, what is wrong with that.

We were warned..... I'm not sure if anyone remembers back to the seventies when illegal migrant workers from Mexico found a voice. That voice ( I can't remember his name ) was telling us that they would be flooding California's borders, they would be having babies and that they would take California and change it's laws. Seems they have suceeded in that goal. And what have they done for California? Bankrupted it.

ItsAboutTime-3704531:

It should also be noted that for a Mexican to be in the US illegally is also a sin in the eyes of GOD and the Catholic Church. They can't simply ignore this fact and nothing OBAMA, the anointed one, can do will remove that sin. The Mexican must leave the US and return to Mexico.

GOD does not recognize squatter's rights.

Bout time Republicans learned to talk the truth. They never wanted immigrants gone from America, their "Job Creators" would never allow for all that cheap labor to sent packing. They just like to blow that smoke to get their extremist friends in the Tea Party happy. I know it's wishful thinking, but maybe one day Republicans can act human every once in awhile, before posturing as a "True American"?

XenophobicVet, People have accused you of being a TEA Party member. Not True in the finest fashion you are a member of the "American Party" also called the Know Nothing Party. The trouble for you and others that share your opinions is it isn't 1855. You folks have be preaching that the Irish, Germans, Italian, and Catholics were going to destroy America since then and now it's the Mexicans. Keep telling immigrants (legal and illegal) that you hate them and their children and grandchildren will keep you and yours out of political office permanently.

Stan Chadko

Suck down the kool-aid bonehead they are not Americans until they become Americans. Obama is the nicest person in the world, what a load of crud. He has no concern except the control of power. He will say anything do anything and sell anything to retain it. He has brought his personal agenda to the White House and forgotten why he was elected. He will be at the end discovered for what he is when you people in love with him take off your blinders.

XenophobicVet

It should also be noted, that GOD is not mentioned anywhere in the United States Consitution. God does not make the laws of the United States of America period.

“Religious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state,' therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.”
― Thomas Jefferson

President Obama has done more on illegal immigration than BUSH or any other GOP individual has done in recent years. He is doing the right thing, and apparently, 62 MILLION People and myself support him.

Well at least XenophobicVet is aptly named.

I'm sick of idiot liberals saying that we need immigration reform. There is nothing wrong with our immigration laws.

We need immigration enforcement. ANYONE who is here illegally needs to go the hell home. End of story.

GOP the Grey Old white Party

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Good luck with that you dinosaurs!

Judging by a LOT of the comments there seems to be a high number of mental institutions letting patients use the internet today...

gotta go, guards coming...

It's simple. It's to the Democrats advantage to cater to the undocumented democrat - this election proves that.

STAN CHADKO

Your comments are typical of what David Axelrod would say about Barack Obama and is in no way a correct discription of this failed leader. He was reelected by the Latino's, blacks and Unions for the simple fact that they will be FURTHER rewarded at tax payers expense.

It's a sad day in America when we allow one party to go against the good of the country, in this election, and then expect those opposed to follow or reap the consequences.

We need immigration enforcement. ANYONE who is here illegally needs to go the hell home. End of story.

This seems to be about as good a use of resources as the drug war.

Because if we just try harder it'll fix everything.

What you liberals fail to realize, well because logic was never one of your strong suits, is the flood of documented and undocumented immigrants are almost wholly low skill/low wage workers. Workers that will receive much, much more from the system than what they pay into it. Your party has sold you out for votes to retain their power. There are simply not enough rich people to support the system because taxing and redistribution does not promote growth (see Europe).

I hope the GOP takes a passive stance and let the Obama completely crash the system. Then Obama and his ilk will have no excuses (all though he was still full of them with a super majority in congress for 2 years). The good news for me is, I've never depended on the Government for anything, so when the Government crashes I won't be one of the lemmings standing around wondering where or from whom I'm going to get my next meal.

Is it not time that some of you people to give up blaming GWB for all that is wrong in this country. Stop it now, he has not been in office for 4 years. ALL POLICIES IN EFFECT CURRENTLY BELONG TO THE CURRENT PRESIDENT AND ADMINISTRATION. They have had 4 years to "clean up the mess".

xeno, you're joking, right? Doing a Colbert? Seriously, you should change your stage name to ParanoidDelusionalXenophobicVet. It's more descriptive.

This might not be go over well with some but I whatever. I'm a Conservative/Republican and I think the Republicans should for the most part just let the Democrats go with what they want to a certain degree.

Higher taxes - Let them have them, most Rich and wealthy people voted for Obama, why protect them. Yes it will hurt the economy, but again why are we trying to protect people from themselves? Aren't we the party of personal repsonsibilty? Try to get some government cuts in a deal but don't get carried away with it.

Immigration - Reagan, Bush, and all the Republicans have had several chances to take care of this and have never done it, now you have two choices, be against immigration (for sound reasons that will never be discussed) or just consider Mexico another state and don't even bother worrying about the border. After decades of doing nothing it's a little late now. Let them come and be a burden to the already bankrupt system, again what do we care, we are not in the business of protecting people from themselves.

Women - If women are more concerned with abortion and condoms then with having a job and providing for their family then we have truly lost this country and for Gods sake let these stupid ladies have their birth control so they don't bread and give us more shallow, stupid women and men. I wish many current liberals mothers had more options for birth control decades ago.

Blacks - Abraham Lincoln (Republican) fought to free slaves - Higher percentage of Republicans voted for the civil rights bill then Democrats. Clarence Thomas, Condi Rice, Allen West, Mia Love, Thomas Sowell, ect.. ect... Republicans have somehow successfully been labled racist despite all the things they have done, I don't know what more we can do other then keep reminding the black community we are not against them and live with the fact they will still not vote Republican. Don't give up on Blacks, but learn to accept they won't ever vote for you.

Healthcare - There are big problems coming with healthcare be prepared to have your solutions ready to go on paper and practice how you are going to sell it to the American people. Don't scratch something together at the last minute we all know the problems that will be coming under the new healthcare law, have a GOOD, WELL EXPLAINED alternative ready.

kk.....AND GIVING ALL TAX BREAKS TO THE RICH FOR YEARS AND YEARS IS NOT A HANDOUT EH?.......

1/4 of all successful corprations pay ZERO taxes......Romney would have only paid 8.9% if he didn't rig his taxes to a higher amount for 2011. Never did complete his 2010....and Romney Ryan were going to end the capital gains tax on the rich to nothing..who werte going to pay for ther taxes Romney wouldn't if their plan went through...?....YOU!!!!! The middle class...!..Who gets the handouts?...THE RICH GIVE THEMSELVES THE HANDOUTS...and now they WILL pay their fair share like they used to!......This blame the poor scam is BUSTED....!

GOP the Grey Old white Party

Said the guy with a Bill Clinton Avatar.

Mia Love, Allen West, Marco Rubio, ect.. , ect..

I have no problem with legal immigration. What bothers me about all the Latinos is that most of them are running away from the problems in their countries instead of joining together and fixing those problems in those countries.When they were part of the problem to begin with. Americans worked through our problems and created a great country. When Latinos don't confront problems in their own countries, what's that going to do for ours? So far it looks like they are bringing all their countries problems here. If they want to be in our county they should speak English. I'm not saying they need to forget their heritage, but it would show some respect for being here. I would speak Spanish if I went there.

I am amazed at how both sides seem to miss public perception on this.

Both sides of Pols seem to think this is a multiculturalism - accept those who are different old while man vs mixed race fight.

Its not. And most people who are not selling a political POV seems to get it better.

I don't really care if the white man has less sway in a multicultural world. That's not what is really wrong. Its jobs. And I hear liberal Friends with the same serious concern as conservative friends. Out in the world, immigration is not a Dem or Rep issue. It is a jobs issue.

The "jobs no one wanted" is BS. Today undocumented workers also take huge numbers of jobs Americans desperately want.

There is serious concern from both sides. It is NOT about Migrant workers. Produce Pickers. They have come here for seasonal work for generations. These were the jobs "no one wanted". That wasn't a problem and still isnt.

But Today, go to any construction site. Framers are undocumented Poles. Electricians are undocumented Russians and Croats. Drywallers are from Mexico. These "were" American jobs. Middle class jobs. Union jobs. Jobs American workers desperately want and need. Now they are undocumented alien jobs. Look at light manufacturing - same thing.

I am all for recruiting bright - professional - highly educated talent from around the world and helping them become Americans. We have high demand and low supply - no unemployment problem there.

But America has a problem with unemployment among the unskilled and skilled laborer ranks of our own citizenry. Allowing a flood of equally unskilled yet cheaper foreign labor to undercut them is what we have now.

It is disastrous for employment. Travel to Europe, especially England. Both EU and Commonwealth rules dictate essentially open immigration.

The end result is the under-skilled are unemployed, and on the dole. And those ranks grow dangerously.

FR wants to paint this as a racial issue. And while that is a factor, it can not be the deciding factor. Because that clouds the real issue, which is big, dangerous, and not being discussed.

kaybeetoys "America is still the Land of the FREE and the Home of the BRAVE!"

That's why so many illegal immigrants BRAVE border guards to come to America - They love all of the FREE services they get, like FREE food stamps and cash aid, FREE medical care, FREE educations, etc., etc., etc. And if Obama is successful in getting 'comprehensive immigration reform' passed, they will be able to continue voting themselves lots of FREE things.

Puts a whole new 'TWIST' on the term 'Land of the Free', doesn't it?

A quid pro quo demand for rewards and special treatment for immigration lawbreaking is a complete insult to our country, to LEGAL immigrants, and to American citizens. It means that these people are seeking to be above the rules by which at least 1 million LEGAL immigrants must play every single year (we permit 1 million LEGAL IMMIGRANTS into the U.S. every year). Americans want for our laws to be respected. ILLEGAL immigration is devastating to American citizens and LEGAL immigrants and results in wage depression and lost job opportunities. ILLEGAL immigration devastates the most vulnerable including the poor, minorities, and the middle class in the U.S. The costs of supporting ILLEGAL FOREIGN NATIONALS are ENORMOUS and CATASTROPHIC!

A GOVERNMENT WHICH REFUSES TO ENFORCE ITS OWN LAWS IS INTOLERABLE!

Cornell Professor Vernon Briggs Jr. has written:

Ever since the latter half of the 19th Century when the United States began to use its lega l system as a means to regulate both the size and the composition of the flow of foreign-born persons into its population and labor force, policymakers have had to confront the issue of what to do about those who defy the ensuing limitations, restrictions, and exclusions. As a consequence, the subject of illegal immigration has made frequent appearances on the nation’s political reform agenda.

For while the United States claims to be a “a nation of immigrants,” it also boasts that it is a “nation of laws” which presumably includes the realm of immigration policy as well. As President Barack Obama eloquently stated during a “town hall meeting” in 2009 when asked about the issue of illegal immigration and immigration reform: “Laws must be binding; rules must be followed; words must mean something.”

Slogans and rhetoric, however, are not policies. They are not substitutes for courses for action. Illegal immigration disproportionately and adversely affects the economic wellbeing of the most vulnerable and needy segment of nation’s labor force: its low skilled workers (both those who are native-born and foreign-born). Indirectly, it corrodes the efficacy of the already weak system of employment standards the nation has for the prot ection of its most precious national resource: its labor force. Directly, it breeds cynicism by legally employable workers that their government does not care about the unfairness of the conditions that they must confront when they have to compete with illegal immigrants for jobs; it causes hardship by depressing wages and reducing employment opportunities for legally employable American workers; and, lastly, it fosters circumstances that tolerate worker exploitation of the illegal immigrants themselves in the labor market.

I forgot young people.

Young People - Young people you are paying into a system you will get nothing out of, the only thing that will be left for you is the bill. If you don't get this then you are either stupid or have wasted a lot of money at college.

Let's be realistic - Ronald Reagan made a 'deal' with the Democrats in Congress for 'Comprehensive Immigration Reform' that allowed millions of illegal immigrants to stay here and get citizenship - IN RETURN FOR STRICT IMMIGRATION CONTROLS.

What happened - the illegals got to stay (and get lots of FREE services), but the federal government ignored the laws against further illegal immigration - RESULT - about 15 million more 'illegal immigrants' have flooded in. Now these new illegal immigrants want THEIR turn - a never ending cycle.

What's the point of another round of 'Comprehensive Immigration Reform' if the new laws will also be conveniently ignored by Democratic presidents?

I understand why the Democrats want it - they buy more votes for themselves, but what about those who obey the laws - and pay the price?

Amd which country did your family migrate from, Xenophobic Vet? It is simply amazing how shallow you people can be.

Their ancestors immigrated here legally, as in compliance with the U.S. immigration laws, from England and Italy. Following up that thought, legal immigrants are always welcome; those who violate our laws and are here illegally are never welcome and should return to where they came from.

If you ain't white, you ain't right, eh boys? Yeehaw!

I find it interesting that Hispanics seem to be voting to allow even MORE competition by illegal immigrants for the few scarce jobs available.

Oh well, I guess 'It just doesn't matter', since I'm moving to Costa Rica in January.

Enjoy the 'Change we can believe in' that you voted for.

FYI - These figures come from Obama's own White House Budget projections - link below;

National Debt as of the end of fiscal 2008 (Bush's last year) = $9.986 Trillion.

Projected National Debt at the end of fiscal 2016 (Obama's last year) = $20.391 Trillion.

By the way - this includes Obama's 'assumption' that he gets his tax increases on the 'rich' and that Interest Rates remain at historic low levels. If that doesn't happen, the Debt will be drastically higher.

I find it ironic that the young people who provided Obama with his margin of victory are the very same ones that will 'inherit' this unsustainable Debt burden, and have to pay for it - with interest.

I guess you might call that 'Retribution'. LOL

Here's the link - See Table 7.1;

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals

By the way - For those who are unfamiliar with Economics, the amount of interest payments on the Debt will have to be paid with higher taxes on everyone - Under Bush, it averaged slightly under $200 Billion per year, but if the interest rates return to the average under Clinton of 4.7%, the interest payments alone will skyrocket to almost $1 Trillion per year by 2016 (Almost $10 Trillion over 10 years – for interest alone). That money will effective come out of the pockets of American families and go into the pockets of 'Investors' – largely foreigners like the Chinese, thus decreasing economic growth/job creation substantially. We are on the same path as Greece.

How is it people come from Canada (non corrupt living people in a civilized society and a neighbor) and can only spend so many full days in the United States per year. Then we have Europeans that wish to become citizens of the United States and have to wait in line sometimes for many years to get citizenship legally. THEN we have Mexicans (coming from one of the most corrupt countries loaded with theft, drug dealing, non-proud people that can't build their own country to a civilized society) wanting to just walk across our borders and ignore the law, get in to the U.S.A., commit crime after crime (that is their background), drive without a legal license and insurance, steal social security numbers to work (there was 18 illegals using the same SS# in one company in libtard California. Go figure!), not pay taxes, and on and on. How do these untrustworthy breed of beaners get priority and status over Canadians and Europeans waiting in line to become LEGAL citizens? It is pure @ss BS! I will say it how I see it. F= racism! Illegal Mexicans are breaking this country. Facts are Facts! Get in F-ing line and wait like other world citizens! Illegal is illegal! Car thefts, murders, drug trafficking, theft and robbery, home invasions, etc etc- what illegals do in America. Live in a neighboring State to Mexico and really see what they are about. Go down to Mexico and see how they live and what they are about. You can't build your own country, we don't need your help building ours!

Well said Roy. Yup, land of the "free" alright.

Regan was the first to say this problem is too big for me let them stay, and just kept on coming through 2 terms of Bush Sr 2 terms of Clinton and 2 terms of Bush Jr. They all turned a blind eye to it. My grandparents came here legally. They learned English on their own dime, and wouldn't take a hand out to save their life. They would have never even dreamed of flying ANY flag except the AMERICAN flag. To see all these Mexican flags is a slap in the face of the country, it also against federal law, but then an illegal alien from mexico doesn't give a rat's behind about the law.

Now for all you numbnuts out there saying that democrats bought the election the reFLUBicans out spent the DEMONcrats by 3 to 1. They bought nothing.

Look I don't care where you come from, I really don't. Just come here the legal way!!!! Do it the right way. Don't give anyone any reason to say you don't belong here. Don't break our laws. Assimilate into the American culture. You are the ones who wanted to come here. You didn't come here at my invitation. Quit trying to change the way we do things to suit yourself. Yes this is America the land of the free. Freedom however, isn't free and it comes at a high price, be prepared to pay it.

While Mexicans were nice and safe picking crops in America, Americans were dying, fighting the wars that MEXICO refused to fight.

You are so full of BS, WW1 Germans were pressuring Mexico to invade the U.S. with promises to help take back Texas. The U.S. intercepted a telegram, that was the beginning of our entry into that war. How different would the worlds political scape be if we hadn't declared?

http://www.cabq.gov/parksandrecreation/parks/veterans-memorial-park/documents/WWIEraFromANewMexicanPerspective.pdf

WWII they were on the verge of economic collapse. Mexicans who wanted to be a part of the war effort fought with U.S. troops and the Mexican airforce fought the japanese over the phillipines.

http://www.smithsonianeducation.org/scitech/impacto/graphic/aviation/wwii201.html

http://www.mexconnect.com/articles/678-mexico-forgotten-world-war-ii-ally

http://www.historynet.com/world-war-ii-mexican-air-force-helped-liberate-the-philippines.htm

Stan: "Obama is a good, honest, and decent man-"

Are you kidding me? The man doesn't know the truth if it smacks him in the face. By your measure, Charles Manson must be a saint. Stop drinking the kool-aid and listen to both sides. When the truth about Libya hits the fan, stand-by for an impeachment!

The flood of Latin America's rats that have stolen American resources from the poor have tried to legitimize their theft under the word, immigration

Lol.

The LW doesn't need to pander to Hispanics with RWers like this driving them away.

... and Fox thinks they lost because minorities want 'free stuff'... rofl

Here's what the right wing xenophobes dont get:

it's republicans by and large employing those illegals (ya know since you all are the JOB CREATORS and us liberals are just the lazy mooches)...

perhaps if you party werent so invested on getting rich off their slave labor, they'd have done something long ago to seal that pourus border.

So again republicans, take a good long look in the mirror - all your troubles, all your woes, are self-created.

Dont bitch at us democrats about illegals, you all made your beds...now lie in them.

In a sense, you have to purchase the citizens of another country to win an American Presidency....

This is what liberty means: Now that you are here you get one chance at a voice, then we suppress you and invite a new set of voters who have only been in the country for less than 4 years....

How can immigrants be trusted to vote if they know nothing about the party/country they are voting in. You cant possibly make a sound judgement unless you decided to speak the language and accept the customs here....instead we have immigrant "voters" voting solely to receive a reward with an allegance to their mother country and not in the best interest of the AMERICAN children, our future, of this country....

how can those that didnt make it in their country be trusted to run this one.

Their ancestors immigrated here legally, as in compliance with the U.S. immigration laws, from England and Italy. Following up that thought, legal immigrants are always welcome; those who violate our laws and are here illegally are never welcome and should return to where they came from.

Immigration then was a much simpler, cheaper, easier process.

Over the years, it has become very convoluted and unrealistic for many of those wishing to enter.

REFORM is what they are asking for, and REFORM can make legal immigration a realistic possibility again for many hispanics - just like it was for our European ancestors.



if they know nothing about the party/country they are voting in

They probably know more about this country than the average American who can't even point to their own state on a map.

frances - I know a lot of people of european decent who still fly their european flags, but we dont seem to notice or care about THAT do we?

I work with a guy from the Netherlands, loves america, is republican, but the netherlands will ALWAYS be #1 in his heart.

He's not considered unpatriotic for loving his european homeland, but thats probably because it's full of white people...

kudos to your grandparents, but im sure you if you talked to them about their homeland, they'd tell you everything they still love about it...and that love would not diminish or take away from the love they have of america.

now, maybe they had such horrific experiences from wherever they came that there's nothing left to love...that could be, but thats not EVERYONES experience.

If you moved to China because of a business offer - would you stop loving america and vow complete allegiance to China?

DOUBT IT.

I'd really like to know when are we going to get someone in the white house who actually has the sack to enforce our laws? Neither party has since both parties are in the pockets of big business. Democrats want the easy votes, Republicans want cheap labor.

And all the morons in this country that actually support giving them amnesty? Holy crap talk about some ignorant @!$%#s. Giving amnesty to them would just sink our country. With obama winning, and all the dip@!$%#s that think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread....

... go ahead and give them amnesty, go ahead and watch obama's epa kill jobs, go ahead and watch obamacare kill jobs. You all deserve what you voted for.

it's republicans by and large employing those illegals (ya know since you all are the JOB CREATORS and us liberals are just the lazy mooches)...

Jessica: Republicans are not necessarily employing illegals. You are assuming that the majority of Republicans are rich in that respect that they can afford to do so. Turns out that many people are in fact Democrat. Look around NYC. Most people are wealthy democrats, and yes they employ thousands of illegals.

More spin from the liberal media..."GOP resistance to immigration reform could be casualty of 2012 election". Wow! The Republicans were always the ones pushing for immigration reform. Obama PROMISED to get it done during the the first year of his first term and didn't. If he really wanted to reform immigration, why didn't he? Obama bragged about his deportation numbers in the debates. Now all of a sudden, this is a spun to be supported by the Democrats and the Republicans are against it. Really? The sad thing is that there are millions of people who believe the media spin. This is further proven by the millions who believe the financial crisis was caused by Bush "cutting taxes for the wealthy". Educate yourself America and stopping listening to the media. Google "what caused the financial crisis" and read the reports. This was years in the making and was caused by special interest legislation passed by BOTH parties. Research the truth and facts and stop believing the spin.

The sad thing is that there are millions of people who believe the media spin

Indeed it is. I was about to ask you which RW rag you got your spin from?



Now all of a sudden, this is a spun to be supported by the Democrats and the Republicans are against it.

Where were you when the house repubs in lockstep refused Bush's call for reform, and instead say "existing laws are good enough, they just are not being enforced".... has that not been the talking point from the right for the last 4 years - or did you just etch-a-sketch that one too?

Sorry - can you remind me what immigration papers those Puritans who got off the Mayflower brought with them?

Seriously, folks, millions of Americans came here without papers and made themselves into productive citizens. Millions of undocumented workers are here today, paying taxes, educating their kids and contributing to our society.

Many of them have no memories of or ties to any other country, especially if they came here as small children. Where do you suggest they go?

My belief is that the Republican party doesn't want to find a solution for them because it's afraid they'll vote overwhelmingly Democrat. But I don't think that's a legitimate reason to ruin people's lives.

Dream Act or amnesty - just fix it.

There was virtually no immigration law in the colonies, and very little following independence.

Hello, register here... ok, in a couple years you can vote - here's your papers. Welcome to the United States.

Many didn't bother to register until much later. I know my Great Grandfather when he came from Finland to work in Copper mines in Michigan was one of them.... I guess that makes him an evil illegal rat according to some of the disgusting rhetoric here.

Legal immigration back then was a far cry from what it is now, so comparing your ancestors to hispanic immigrants today is truly a double standard of epic proportions.

The GOP has to get rid of its fast imploding xtian Taliban image as well!!

It's aligned itself FAR to much to ultra-xtian conservatism to the point that it's alienated both non and moderately religious Americans in the process.

Now THIS is funny ....

Darwin gets 4,000 write-in votes against Ga. rep.
Associated Press – 17 hrs ago

ATHENS, Ga. (AP) — Charles Darwin earned almost 4,000 write-in votes against a Georgia congressman who denounced evolution and other scientific theories as "lies straight from the pit of hell."

The symbolic votes in Athens-Clarke County were a small percentage of more than 209,000 votes won by Republican Rep. Paul Broun in his unopposed re-election Tuesday.

The Athens Banner-Herald reports (http://bitly.com/XnDtgG ) that write-in totals weren't immediately available for the other 24 counties in his district.

Broun gave a speech to a church group on Sept. 27 lambasting evolution, embryology and the Big Bang theory. Critics urged voters to write in the 19th-century British naturalist who is considered the father of evolution.

ProFreedom-5130956

We are a country of immigrants. In today's world, however, we have people entering our country illegally and then finding support and assistance at the hands of the taxpayer- that is what I take issue with.

Come here legally and we are like brothers as far as I'm concerned as we share the same legacy of those brave souls who came to this country in search of a better existence.

The other issue is terrorism. The world is too dangerous to allow people to 'jump the fence' and get away. We need to control our borders and not allow people to come & go at whim.

I find what you have said to be very comforting and that little spanish (jk) voice in my head that tells me im the devil for wanting this country to be equal, its happy too.

Sadly right now, we are not equal for I am starving, my granddaddy fought for this country, and someone who hates me and thinks I should stand aside or die, gets a meal instead...and there is no way I will put a child on this earth...so there is no help for me...because a welfare vote from my kid is all they want...i refuse...would rather die than put a child on this earth to get welfare...so, my only option, stand aside or die defending what I think America was meant for, its citizens, not the citizens of the world, but American citizens period. America is for American citizens, not everyone else....

a simple example:

Old America: money falls from the sky, 20 Americans standing there, each get a few dollars,

New America: money falls from the sky, 20 Americans and 2 million undocumented immigrants standing there, so eager to receive, they fight, tear up and hurt each other for the single one dollar they could actually find

what will be left for you immigrants when million more come?? did you ever ask that...where will you get money when you take over the government for the new people you invite here.....

how is a Hispanic Government going to support all of the Hispanic immigrants....you cant, all you are doing is ensuring American will not be the one you thought you were coming too...didnt you leave your country for a reason....or was it simply to take more land to turn it back to Mexico...HoW will you keep America from being the country you left?? You have to listen to us, we built this country and we have the knowledge of how we got here and know what is best...we Americans know what is best for America...Mexico does not know what it takes to be America...why do you want this country to fall back??

Summary

Because we’re gluttons for punishment, we’ve gone through each claim in turn and report on each in detail farther down. But here are a few highlights (or lowlights) of what we found:

• The e-mail includes a link to a CIS report that contradicts some of the e-mail’s own claims. The report found that illegal immigrant welfare use "tends to be very low." It also estimates the total federal net cost of households headed by illegal immigrants at under $10.4 billion, a small fraction of what this message claims.

• One "paper" that is cited is a non-peer-reviewed, non-scientific study that essentially fabricates a number for illegal immigrant criminals.

• Five of the links lead to transcripts of Lou Dobbs’ cable television show, which fulminates regularly against illegal immigration and is hardly a neutral source. Furthermore, in all instances, the e-mail then takes the original Dobbs reporting out of context.

So, how much do illegal immigrants cost federal, state and local governments in the U.S.? Estimates vary widely, and no consensus exists. The Urban Institute put the net national cost at $1.9 billion in 1992; a Rice University professor, whose work the Urban Institute criticized, said it was $19.3 billion in 1993. More recently, a 2007 report by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office examined 29 reports on state and local costs published over 15 years in an attempt to answer this question. CBO concluded that most of the estimates determined that illegal immigrants impose a net cost to state and local governments but "that impact is most likely modest." CBO said "no agreement exists as to the size of, or even the best way of measuring, that cost on a national level."

The Details

For those who want more, we take on each of the e-mail’s claims in order:

1. "$11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year."

This item is completely false. The link given to "verify" the claim actually leads to anissue brief by the conservative Federation for American Immigration Reform . But the FAIR brief says nothing of the sort. It says: "Each year, state governments spend an estimated $11 billion to $22 billion to provide welfare to immigrants." That’s welfare payments in 2001 to all immigrants – both legal and illegal – plus households including U.S. citizens if they are headed by a person who was born outside the United States.

The site says the FAIR report was last updated in October 2002, but a footnote credits this statistic to a March 2003 report from the Center for Immigration Studies . CIS began as an off-shoot of FAIR. But the CIS report doesn’t actually say anything about $11 billion or $22 billion. And it explains that its references to "immigrant households" include persons here legally and persons born outside the U.S.

CIS report: Like the Census Bureau, and other academic work that has examined this question, this report looks at welfare use by immigrant and native households. Households are defined as immigrant or native based on the nativity of the household head. As already indicated, this report uses the terms immigrant and foreign-born synonymously.

CIS estimated that welfare payments to illegal immigrant households averaged $1,040 per household in 2001, mainly Medicaid "on behalf of their U.S.-born children." But the report did not attempt to come up with a total for all such households.

2. "$2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens."

3. "$2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens."

These figures supposedly come from a 2004 report by CIS that estimated the costs to the federal government of households headed by illegal immigrants in 2002. But the CIS report actually put the costs of food stamp, WIC and free school lunch programs to "illegal alien households" at $1.9 billion, not the $2.2 billion claimed in the e-mail. The $2.5 billion figure for Medicaid to such households is quoted accurately, but again, much of this was in benefits for U.S.-born children, who are citizens.

Most interesting is that the CIS report includes a total net cost estimate to the federal government for illegal immigrants of just under $10.4 billion for the year, after accounting for the taxes these immigrants paid. That doesn’t include any potential costs to state or local governments, but it’s a far cry from this e-mail’s cost claim of $338.3 billion.

CIS report: Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household.

Even CIS’ figures have been questioned by other researchers. The Urban Institute reviewed a related 2003 CIS paper and concluded that its "methods overstate the percentage of the population receiving Medicaid and the share of immigrants on Medicaid, resulting in misleading conclusions about welfare use among immigrants."

Even so, the CIS report actually rebuts claims repeated by this chain e-mail:

CIS: Our findings show that many of the preconceived notions about the fiscal impact of illegal households turn out to be inaccurate. In terms of welfare use, receipt of cash assistance programs tends to be very low, while Medicaid use, though significant, is still less than for other households. Only use of food assistance programs is significantly higher than that of the rest of the population. Also, contrary to the perceptions that illegal aliens don’t pay payroll taxes, we estimate that more than half of illegals work “on the books.”

4. "$12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!"

5."$17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies."

Both links given to "verify" these claims lead to an April 1, 2006, episode of "Lou Dobbs Tonight" on CNN. During the show, correspondent Christine Romans cited both of these stats and attributed them to FAIR. A FAIR research paper from 2005 does include these cost projections, but a closer look shows that the underlying assumptions are inflated or unsupported.

The FAIR report starts with the presumption that there are "1.5 million school-aged illegal immigrants residing in the United States." That figure is attributed to an Urban Institute presentation that doesn’t actually say that. Instead, the Urban Institute said: "We estimate that there are about 1.4 million undocumented children under 18 with about 1.1 million of school age (5 -19)."

The FAIR report also assumes there are 2 million "U.S.-born siblings" of illegal immigrant families. However, the Urban Institute makes no estimates of U.S.-born siblings and FAIR gives no citation for its figure. And in any case, again, those U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants are themselves U.S. citizens and not "illegal aliens."

6. "$3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens."

7. "30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens."

Both of these claims can be traced back to that same April 1, 2006, episode of "Lou Dobbs Tonight" on CNN, in the same segment, with the same correspondent, Christine Romans. But the e-mail misrepresents what Romans said. She gave figures for people who are "not U.S. citizens," a category that would include legal residents as well as "illegal aliens."

Romans said that "according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons, 30 percent of federal prisoners are not U.S. citizens," adding that "most are thought to be illegal aliens." Actually, the Federal Bureau of Prisons does not keep figures on illegal immigrants. What solid numbers we can find point to a much smaller figure. A Department of Justice report from 2003 found that only 1.6 percent of the state and federal prison populations was under Immigration and Customs Enforcement jurisdiction, and thus known to be illegal immigrants. Half of these prisoners were detained only because they were here illegally, not for other crimes.

The Bureau of Prisons does track prisoners by offense when information is available. By that metric, 10.7 percent of prisoners in federal jails were incarcerated for immigration offenses in 2009. In 2006, when Romans gave her report, the figure was 10.2 percent.

The "$3 million dollar a day" figure is based on the false assumption that 30 percent of all inmates are illegal immigrants, and thus is greatly inflated.

8. "$90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers."

The link to "verify" this claim is dead. However, we found a transcript of a Lou Dobbs episode on Oct. 29, 2006, in which Robert Rector of the conservative Heritage Foundation made the following statement:

Robert Rector, Oct. 29, 2006: Well, assuming that we have about 11 million immigrants in the U.S., the net cost or the total cost of services and benefits provided to them, education, welfare, general social services would be about $90 billion a year, and they would pay very little in taxes. It’s important to remember that at least half of illegal immigrants are high school dropouts.

We checked with Rector, who said he was referring to both legal and illegal low-skill immigrant households (those headed by someone who doesn’t have a high school diploma). His research also looked at many forms of government spending per household, including money spent on parks and transportation.

9. "$200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens."

Again, this is from that same April 1, 2006, Lou Dobbs episode. On the show, Dobbs said that "estimates by the most authoritative and recent study put the suppressed wages at $200 billion a year, as a result of immigration, both legal and illegal." The e-mail continues its practice of ignoring any distinction between legal and illegal immigration.

We couldn’t find any study that supported Dobb’s figure.

10. "The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that’s two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US"

This is false. The "verify" link leads to yet another transcript of Lou Dobbs speaking with Robert Rector of the Heritage Foundation. This one is dated June 12, 2006, and Rector says, "Hispanics in the United States have a crime rate that’s two and a half times that of white non-Hispanics."

Rector said Hispanics, not illegal immigrants, as the e-mail alleges. Considering there are 45.4 million Hispanics in the country, and an estimated 11.9 million illegal immigrants , the distinction is notable. Rector’s statistic for all Hispanics is correct,according to a 2003 report from the Justice Department.

11. " During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. "

The link goes to a 2006 report written by the Republican staff of the House Subcommittee on Investigations of the Committee on Homeland Security. To start, the "19,500" number of "illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries" is nowhere to be found in this report. In fact, the report estimates the number of illegal immigrants coming over the southern border from countries known to harbor terrorists to be in the "hundreds." We’ve seen a similar scare tactic used previously in ads advocating for a border fence.

And the 4 million to 10 million statistic is extrapolated using some imprecise reasoning. The committee report figures that since "Border Patrol apprehended approximately 1.2 million illegal aliens" in 2005 and since "Federal law enforcement estimates that 10 percent to 30 percent of illegal aliens are actually apprehended," that "therefore, in 2005, as many as 10 to 4 million [sic] illegal aliens crossed into the United States." That simplistic math produces a figure starkly different from more widely accepted estimates. The Pew Hispanic Center estimated that in 2005 there were 11.1 million illegal immigrants total, living in the United States. The center also estimated that about 500,000 illegal immigrants a year came to the U.S. from 2005 to 2008.

12. "The National Policy Institute, ‘estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.’ "

No, it didn’t. The National Policy Institute, a group that says it promotes the rights of "white Americans," ironically was citing figures from the liberal Center for American Progress in a report that argued against mass deportation of undocumented workers. CAP said such deportation would cost more per year than the entire Department of Homeland Security budget, illustrating "the false allure of deportation as a response to our broken immigration system."

13. "In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin."

This is another bogus figure. The email’s link leads to the original Frosty Wooldridge article, which in turn cites as its source for this figure a link to a Contra-Costa Times article, which is no longer working. Nevertheless, we were able to find a news release from the Inter-American Development Bank stating Latin American immigrants sent $45 billion in remittances in 2006. But that figure applies to all immigrants, including legal residents.

14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States."

Once again, the "verify" link is dead. But a little Internet research found the article cited . An independently published, non-peer-reviewed study did estimate that nearly a million sex crimes have been committed by illegal immigrants over a seven-year period, but it employs some highly creative math and interesting assumptions to get there. The "study" is actually a pretty good case study in bad research.

The author assumes that 2 percent of illegal immigrants are sex offenders after "examining ICE reports and public records," but does not say how that figure was calculated. A bibliography cites miscellaneous Immigration and Customs Enforcement press releases and media accounts of instances of apprehending illegal immigrants who were sex offenders (seemingly manufacturing a "rate" based on anecdotal evidence). The author then makes no distinction between male and female illegal immigrants when estimating the number that are "sex offenders."

As we’ve said before, anonymous chain e-mails making dramatic claims are quite likely to be false. And that goes even for those that may seem to cite legitimate sources. This one is yet another good candidate for the "delete" key.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/cost-of-illegal-immigrants/

Jeb Bush says illegal immigration is "net zero"

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As millions watch them during their national convention in Tampa, Republicans are trying to appear tough on illegal immigration without offending Hispanic voters.

Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, who is bilingual and met his wife in Mexico, has warned his fellow Republicans they need to watch their tone on the immigration issue. He repeated that warning in an interview on Meet the Press the weekend before the convention.

"My personal view is that we need to get beyond where we are," Bush said. "We need to create a climate of border control. And that’s begun to happen, if you look at the number of illegal immigrants coming into the country, it’s net zero. It’s been that way now for almost two years. And if you say, well, we’ve gotten a much better grasp on the number of people just coming in without papers, then you could develop a strategy that’s part of economic growth. …"

For this fact-check, we will research whether Bush was correct when he said the number of illegal immigrants coming into the country is net zero, and that it’s been that way for two years.

Pew Hispanic Center studies

We turned to the Pew Hispanic Center for an answer. The center is a nonpartisan research organization that does not take positions on policy issues.

Its 2012 report about Mexican immigration concluded, "After four decades that brought 12 million current immigrants -- most of whom came illegally -- the net migration flow from Mexico to the United States has stopped and may have reversed." The report was based on the center’s analysis of federal census data.

We interviewed Jeffrey Passel, a senior demographer at Pew and an expert on Hispanic immigration. He said that Bush’s claim is true. Passel said that we can infer that the outflow of unauthorized immigrants exceeded inflows between 2007 and 2009 because the overall size of the unauthorized population living in the U.S. decreased between 2007 and 2009 from 12 million to 11.1 million.

There are four ways the number of unauthorized immigrants changes: the inflow of new unauthorized immigrants, the outflow of those leaving the U.S., deaths and unauthorized immigrants gaining legal status.

Those last three categories -- outflow out of the U.S., deaths and conversion to legal status -- exceeded the first category of new inflows of unauthorized immigrants by about 900,000 between 2007 and 2009. But deaths and conversion to legal status are not large figures. Therefore, Passel said, "the major source of the decline is almost certainly an excess of outflow of unauthorized over inflow."

You can read about Pew’s reports about net migration from Mexico here and in general about trends in the illegal immigration population here and here.

We also sent Bush’s claim to groups with opposing views on immigration and all agreed that Bush’s statement was correct.

"I think you will find everybody agrees with it being zero or close to it," said Roy Beck, executive director of Numbers USA, which advocates for low immigration.

A spokeswoman for The National Immigration Forum, which advocates for immigrants, sent us aNew York Times op-ed piece co-written by two professors, one a former foreign minister of Mexico and the other co-director of the Mexican Migration Project at Princeton. That op-ed piece also stated that the rate of undocumented immigration is nearing zero.

Our ruling

Bush said "If you look at the number of illegal immigrants coming into the country, it is net zero. It's been that way now for almost two years."

It is difficult to get a precise figure on the population of illegal immigrants. But data from Pew Hispanic Center, a widely respected source referred to by those of different political viewpoints on immigration, supports Bush’s claim.

We rate this claim True.

http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/aug/28/jeb-bush/jeb-bush-says-illegal-immigration-net-zero/

Facebook post claims nearly 60 percent of public housing residents are illegal immigrants

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A reader asked us to check out this Facebook post with 10 claims about illegal aliens.

One of the strongest charges aimed at illegal immigrants is that not only have they broken the law, but they are relying heavily on government handouts.

A PolitiFact reader sent us a link to a Facebook post that lists many such claims of unlawful residents benefiting from federal programs. Among them was the claim that, "Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD housing in U.S. are illegals." The post went up on June 10 and since then has been shared over 3,900 times.

To assess this statement, we looked at the total number of people using HUD subsidized housing. According to HUD’s website, the count was about 9.6 million in 2009, the most recent year for which they have data. That includes public housing, rent vouchers, Section 8 and a couple of other programs.

If the 60 percent claim were accurate, then there would be about 5.8 million illegal immigrants living in HUD properties. There are about 11.2 million illegal immigrants in the United States according to a 2010 Pew Hispanic Center estimate.

"It seems implausible on its face," says Chris Herbert, Research Director at the Joint Center for Housing Studies at Harvard University. "It would mean that about half of all the illegal immigrants in the country lived in assisted housing."

If the practice were so widespread, Herbert says, it would come up often -- and he’s never heard any discussion of it. We checked with another of the country’s leading housing policy groups, the Furman Center For Real Estate and Urban Policy at New York University, and they too drew a blank.

We asked HUD ourselves. A spokesman could find no published report on illegal immigrants in HUD housing. HUD does require information on citizenship when people apply for assistance. Public housing and vouchers represent the bulk of HUD’s subsidized housing. The agency says 96 percent of those residents are citizens and about 4 percent are legal immigrants.

"The claim that 60 percent are illegal is certainly nonsensical," says Brian Sullivan, a HUD spokesman.

Applicants for subsidized housing must be citizens or legal immigrants. Sullivan notes that undocumented immigrants are allowed to live in subsidized housing if at least one member of the household is in the country legally. Typically, this happens when undocumented parents have a child in the U.S. Anyone born here is automatically a citizen and the parents could then rent in a HUD-subsidized property. In these cases,HUD reduces the subsidy for each undocumented person in the unit.

Sullivan says, "The taxpayer would not be on the hook for assisting in their housing."

We found one article that references an estimate of the number of illegal immigrants living in subsidized units. An item from the Associated Press says HUD pegged the number at about 30,000. That would be about 0.3 percent of all HUD residents -- a tiny fraction of 60 percent. An unconfirmed blog post in circulation on the Web mentions that Arizona HUD officials estimated that perhaps 10 percent of its occupants are in the country illegally.

To be complete, we should note that whatever housing benefits an illegal immigrant might enjoy -- such as being allowed to live in a HUD unit because a family member is a citizen -- those benefits don’t count in certain kinds of deportation hearings. The government can deport someone if it determines they are a "public charge" which is defined as someone who is "primarily dependent on the Government for subsistence." HUD housing is not part of that calculation.

Clearly, there are some illegal immigrants living in HUD housing and there are rules that might allow them to stay, but in no way do the numbers match the claim that 60 percent of HUD housing residents are "illegals."

Our ruling

The Facebook post says "Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD housing in U.S. are illegals."

The closest but unverified estimate we could find for illegal occupants in HUD housing is less than 1 percent nationwide. The claim of 60 percent is ridiculously false.

Pants on Fire!

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jun/21/facebook-posts/facebook-post-60-percent-public-housing/

"41 percent (of illegal immigrants) are on welfare"

This half of the statement is more problematic.

The most detailed statistics we found were from Camarota’s group. In a 2007 report, the center published a table titled, "Welfare Use for Illegal Alien-Headed Households." The table reported that 40 percent of illegal immigrant-headed households used any "major welfare" program in the previous calendar year. The percentage was even higher in illegal-immigrant headed households that included children: a whopping 71 percent, according to a a 2011 report by the center.

So there is some basis for the 40 percent figure. However, it’s important to keep two bits of context in mind:

• This statistic addresses households headed by an illegal immigrant. However, many of these households include American citizens within the family, often children who were born in the United States and who received citizenship at birth. Indeed, given the web of restrictions on the granting of government benefits to illegal immigrants, most of the "welfare" benefits being counted in the CIS table are going to citizen children, not to adult illegal immigrants. Indeed, the government is responsible for checking the immigration status of people receiving benefits.

It’s true that some types of benefits, such as food stamps, can be shared among all members of a family. An illegal immigrant, for instance, may end up eating food bought with a citizen relative’s food stamps. Still, the Facebook post’s phrasing -- that 41 percent of illegal immigrants are on welfare -- is misleading because it ignores that the benefits in question are generally going to American citizens.

• We suspect that when many people hear the term "welfare," they think of cash benefits. However, very little cash assistance is going to illegal immigrants. According to CIS, less than 1 percent of illegal-immigrant-headed households included anyone receiving direct government cash assistance, such as Temporary Aid for Needy Families (TANF), Supplemental Security Income (SSI) or state-run cash aid. This is not surprising: Illegal immigrants are generally barred from receiving such payments.

Instead, the kind of "welfare" these households received were primarily one of two types: health care or food.

In all, 27 percent of such households received coverage from Medicaid, the federal-state health care program for the poor, while 33 percent received food assistance, such as free or reduced-price school lunches, food stamps, or benefits from the Women-Infants-Children program (WIC). As noted earlier, many of the recipients of these programs were actually citizen children of illegal immigrants. Few illegal immigrants received housing benefits, the other major category of assistance from the government, CIS found.

Medicaid and food assistance certainly qualify as government benefits, and they cost the taxpayers money. But it’s less clear that they fit the commonly understood definition of "welfare."

Our ruling

The Facebook post’s first claim, that "less than 2 percent of illegals are picking crops," is close to correct. The post’s second claim, that "41 percent (of illegal immigrants) are on welfare" is misleading. Most of the "welfare" benefits in question are going to U.S. citizens who live in illegal immigrant households, not directly to illegal immigrants, and very little of it comes in cash form, which is the traditional definition of "welfare." On balance, we rate the claim Mostly False.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jun/20/facebook-posts/facebook-post-says-less-2-percent-illegals-are-pic/

And that's just a couple. Visit here...

http://www.politifact.com/subjects/immigration/

To see even more.

I know it takes eight years, on average, to immigrate here legally. I also know it's limited to established professionals and those who have family members as citizens. I know that once here on a green card or visa, it's a highly bureaucratic process to renew them. And that if you don't there is NO pathway to citizenship. I know that 1996 Welfare reform disqualified undocumented people from any means tested assistance. I know that the IRS assigns ITIN numbers for all workers, regardless of immigration status, ensuring they pay taxes, but can't collect SS. I know undocumented people are the least likely to seek medical attention for fear of deportation. I also know it costs $12,500 to deport a single person, if we follow the law, which I'm sure you want to do, since you seem very concerned about legality. I know that civil rights are afforded to persons and not citizens. I know that the supreme court ruled that theft of SSN numbers, as done by undocumented workers, does not constitute theft per se.

And most of all, I know that being a human is not illegal.

http://pewresearch.org/databank/dailynumber/?NumberID=778

http://www.politifact.com/subjects/immigration/

http://factcheck.org/archives/search-results/?cx=000672474746801930868%3Aa87hh_euyka&cof=FORID%3A11%3BNB%3A1&ie=UTF-8&q=immigration&sa=Search

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-03-16/news/31199931_1_residency-and-taxpaying-illegal-immigrants-taxation-and-economic-policy

http://www.policymic.com/articles/12651/illegal-immigrants-paid-more-taxes-than-romney-in-2010

http://roygermano.com/2011/02/28/do-illegal-immigrants-pay-taxes/

http://inamerica.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/06/undocumented-immigrants-face-arrest-as-they-proclaim-no-papers-no-fear/

http://www.scholarsstrategynetwork.org/sites/default/files/ssn_basic_facts_massey_on_undocumented_migration.pdf

http://www.workplacefairness.org/sc/undocumentedworkers.php

http://jifm.tamu.edu/imfacts.htm

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/06/georgia-learns-a-hard-truth-illegal-immigrants-keep-us-fed/241151/

Is it just me or does everyone not see the rancor and divisiveness as proof of a divide and conquer technique by the legislators in this article? Since they have no will or ability to confront the most important issue of the day "the fiscal cliff" lets divide the country and have them argue over immigration. These same legislators have ignored the situation for years and now want to to pick a fight on it to take the countries eye off the ball. Lets hold these morons to a higher standard and refuse to get drawn into the mess they caused. Hold them accountable through email and phone conversations and remind them they can and will be replaced.

Next

Smoothie-2010. Your analysis is going right down on the "get on the bandwagon" line I was taught in college. The small pockets of blue in the red states, if they are college students(bright leaders of America???) then they have even been brain washed more than me. Our colleges are so liberal now that one has to be careful where to go now. I thought college was there to teach one to think and use common sense, not to implant a certain philosopy in the student. I have a grandson who just graduated from college and the professors pushed over and over that Islam and the Quarn is not about violence but just peace and that it was only the Christians that killed and were violent in the past. Luckily they didn't destroy the total "common sense" part of his brain and he can make intelligent decisions in other areas.

As others have said Illegal is Illegal no matter how you spell it. The illegals should be sent home and if they want to come to the US, get in line and do it legally. Some ask about our ancesters but they are so short sighted that they don't understand they came here legally and were told to learn English. Now we print ballots and other documents in a dozen languages. To me if you can't read english go home. Just doesn't make sense.

To all the misguided people who say, "Where did your ancestors come from?" and "We are all immigrants!" remember that the country as we know it was created by Europeans. Not Latinos. Not Arabs. Not even the native population. The USA was created by Europeans, who created a country now so popular that millions want to come here.

The founders did not base the Constitution off Latino culture. Now, Latinos flood in by the thousands, have baby after baby, and have the nerve to demand the illegal be made legal ... what?? They have the nerve to suggest that those who disagree with them are racist. No, not racist, just against your fouled up culture - a culture that by your own admission is terrible. Otherwise, they would stay in Mexico and every other Latin country with copious problems they can't solve.

FreeThink,

So basically, you're saying that white, European culture is superior and all that's welcomed in this country.

Well, here's some thoughts for you...

The U.S.A became a SUPER POWER after the influx of immigration from nations all over the globe.

The slaves and African culture has ALSO been here from the beginning and played a massive role in building this country.

The Chinese and Asian influx to CA during the gold rush played a massive role in connecting our nation with the rail roads.

Latin culture was part of our formation in the southwest and west, which in case you didn't know is ALSO part of our country.

Regardless of where the founders came from, they, or their ancestors still IMMIGRATED here. So yes, immigration DID build this country.

It's not "nerve" to call you a racist. You ARE one.

We need to Stop Illegal immigration! They’re not just doing jobs that Americans don't want. Do they pay taxes? Don't get me wrong most of these people work very hard, but are a drain on the system if they don't pay taxes, have healthcare coverage, learn the language or get paid wages that are in line with their American counterparts. Who’s footing the bill for the education of their children and the infrastructure around them? We all know that the health care provided to uninsured illegals here in the states is being averaged into our hospital costs and our insurance premiums, which have PROPORTIONATELY increased along with illegal immigration over the last 20 years? These costs are also being passed along to Medicaid and Medicare, which means that not only are they increasing our insurance premiums, but that we’re paying for them again with our tax dollars.

Our tax dollars and insurance premiums should not be used to recoup the cost of healthcare given to illegal immigrants, who shouldn't even be here in our country in the first place.

To the people that disagree, we should ask them should this: If a few illegal immigrants knocked on your door and demanded that you pay some medical bills for them, would you pay them?

Just look around and you'll see who's doing 90% of the residential renovations, construction and property maintenance jobs. That's certainly what we're seeing in the northeast. These are not just jobs that Americans don't want.

Well, its my turn now. first off, i did not vote for Obama when he ran the first time nor did i vote for him the second time. his platform was the same, and every political cartoon is more believable than anything Obama says. this time since he's got another four years to do something for his presidency, i hope he will take care of the people who helped get him elected another four years. if he doesnot, if he cannot, if he will not, he needs to be impeached.

So Grover is seeing his cherished radical anti-tax movement dying a slow agonizing death. He’s now seeing that he is on the wrong side of history, and that his efforts have been slowly killing the Republican Party. So before he becomes the fall guy for the failures of the party and loses his support base, he’s suddenly the voice of reason on immigration. He’s the torch bearer for immigration reform and will now guide the Republican Party back into the light. Give me a break.

If both parties don’t actually start doing something to fix the real problems in our country like “out-sourcing”, illegal immigration and the out of control costs of health care insurance, by the next election – American citizens may just have to run a nation-wide campaign to vote every single incumbent out of office, so that maybe then they’ll finally get the message.

Wouldn't it be More Productive if Our Elected Leaders Started Working Together as AMERICANS for AMERICANS and AMERICA, instead of just bickering, stalling and posturing for the next election as democrats and republicans! The American People have had it with this unproductive BS! We need both parties to actually start looking out for the best interest of the US Citizens who elect them and who they're supposed to represent. If they stop fighting and actually start working together to solve our problems, America and all Americans will be much better off.

Unless and until the GOP recognizes that Latino citizens are Americans just like Anglos and everyone else, they will continue to lose national elections and to get pushed back in local elections as the demographics of this country change. In order to accomplish substantive reform in their party to meet the reality of the shift in American politics, the Republican Party is going to be forced to unload the asylum-full of right wing crazies it has embraced in recent years. That means the lunatics we see posting on this site who slavishly follow the ravings of Rush Limbaugh and swallow the journalistic pablum of FOX News are ultimately going to be scraped off the shoe of legitimate political parties or they will witness the GOP becoming more marginalized and less relevant as time goes on.

Wake up, Republican Party! In not too many election cycles in the future, both Arizona and Texas will become blue states unless you move back to the center of the political spectrum and open your party to all Americans instead of excluding them on the basis of race, ethnicity, gender, and sexual preference. It's your choice: moderation or extinction!

Sarah and a few others when it comes to this situation that exist today something needs to be done quickly and swiftly! Feel sorry for illegals doesn't get it done!----->

The Welfare tab to the Government for ILLEGALS just in Los Angeles was $570 million in 2009 and $600 million in 2010. Combined with public safety costs and health care costs, the "total cost for illegal immigrants to county taxpayers" was more than $1.6 billion in 2010.

It continues to grow! That is just one metropolitan area! This country is in deep s###! Democrats are clueless when it comes to the bottom line! California is near Bankrupt, but lets keep growing the handout generation. Pay taxes to feed and give handouts to illegals? F THE GOVERNMENT! No wonder the middle class is getting killed. Redistribution to the illegal population. Boot all illegals back across the border on a greasy semi, back it up to the fence and watch them all slide back to the corupt side of the world. Geezus

The Welfare tab to the Government for ILLEGALS just in Los Angeles was $570 million in 2009 and $600 million in 2010. Combined with public safety costs and health care costs, the "total cost for illegal immigrants to county taxpayers" was more than $1.6 billion in 2010.

First, provide a source. Second, one aspect of their "tab" does not tell the intellectual honest story, unless compared to all of the other economic cost/benefits in regards to this issue. Third, one city is a @!$%#ty sample size.

See post, #1.110 and actually read both it, AND the links, as most of your position is refuted.

I agree, something needs to be done and in order to start DOING it, we need to speak on unbiased, non-partisan facts. Otherwise, how will we know how to solve the problem?

This election has had the effect of ending any semblance of fiscal conservativism in this country. The U.S. now can race towards European socialism virtually without resistance, and we all know how that European socialism is turning out.

For those conservatives that claim to be looking towards the 2016 elections, I say why bother? The country by then will be beyond redemption.

I googled "total cost for illegal aliens to county taxpayers" and I got quite a few hits on right wing websites and neo-fascist zombie sites. For a more authoritative...and honest...appraisal of the cost of illegal aliens in this country, here is a report from FactCheck:

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/cost-of-illegal-immigrants/

Hey Republicans – it wasn’t just because of Hispanics that you lost. You lost among women of all ages. You lost among people under age 40. You lost among college graduates. You lost among Asians, Blacks, and Easters Europeans. The only demographic you carried was old, white, high school educated men and in Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, you didn’t even carry them. President Obama won by a larger percentage of the popular vote than Bush did in 2004. You lost seats in the Senate. You lost seats in the House. In fact – if you add up all the votes nationwide for House seats, you lost by over 500,000 votes. Bottom line – you got your ass handed to you. If you don’t change, you just may go the way of the Whig party of the 19^th century. The train for 21^st century has left the station without Fox and Limbaugh on board.

wswalcott

"How did you family get here? I guess if you are of European descent the door to America is wide open."

last i checked Spain and Italy are in Europe , and the origin of the Latin people is the area around Rome, Italy.

Repubs will revisit the issue and start kissing illegal rump.

What repubs need to do instead is get off the god bandwagon.

They would rather let illegals be rewarded than let gays marry or someone have an abortion.

If you want to give illegal aliens who committed "breaking and entering" against America amnesty, why won't Nancy Pelosi give the burgler who commited "breaking and entering" at her home on election day amnesty? Sounds hypocritical to me.

I don't belong or support ANY PARTY. So Mr. Braindead, how do our ancestors who migrated here in the 1600's have anything to do with immagration today? There was something going on back in those days, called NO IMMIGRATION LAWS!!! So anyone who uses that as a reason why they should be allowed to stay in the US is on a lot better drugs, and drinks highly hallucinogenic kool aid

Even if the Republican/Tea Party starts PRETENDING to be tolerant of Latinos it won’t matter. Most people understand that the core of the Republican/Tea Party will always be racist and mean spirited. With any luck at all within the next ten years the GOP will fade away and be consigned to the trash heap of history………. That’s exactly where it belongs.

All you have to do is read some of the right wing posts on this vine to see how ugly and out of touch these people are. That's OK though because while they spew their hate filled ryhtoric the rest us will move forward into the 21st century.

Hello folks, you have the evolved and those who choose not to evolve and you know who you are. The evolved can look into the mirror and like what they see and the other, well you know what you see when you look into the mirror. It doesn't have to be that way and it's never to late to change. Good Luck!

Steven-1488825

You did see the J/K after my post, right? Even though I would never want to see us that poor, it would be effective whether you like it or not. In fact, if we just ended welfare programs it would curtail illegal immigration substantially. Take away a motivation, you remove an action.

My earlier comment was not directed at anyone in particular, it was more of a comment about the direction of the country that I don't agree with.

I hope Republicans continue to support the religiously driven dogma of folks like Xerophobic and people like him. The truth is that radical right's takeover of the Republican Party ended last Tuesday. Never again will the idiot wing of the Republican Party dictate policy if the Repubs are to survive as a party. The vapid stupidity of the Republican Party is that, despite widespread demographic changes, the Romney campaign was pitched at angry white men who will soon be overwhelmingly outnumbered by racial and ethnic minorities. Even no-tax guru Norquist and the Faux News nincompoop Hannity see the writing on the wall.

It's time for radical Republicans to lose the language of hatred and division. It's time to embrace an America that is multi-racial and multi-cultural. Appealing to and appeasing angry white racist men, over 70% of which voted for Romney, just ain't going to cut it anymore. And if the radical right prefers to cling to their dogma and blind hatred such as that displayed by Xerophobic and other drooling imbeciles like him, they'll destroy themselves as a political force forever, a welcome change in my view.

Bill-2910238

I do not understand how the left can defend amnesty for those who openly violate the law.

And I do not understand how the right argues for the deportation of 12 million people, something that Hitler himself couldn't do!

To Republicans: we cannot deport every illegal immigrant in the country. We simply can't. Even if we wanted to, the resources necessary would all but bankrupt us, and for what?? Pushing people out of the country that claims to be the most welcoming in the world??? The Canadians are smart; they and others realize that in order to be competitive, you have to have an efficient immigration system. And you can't demonize illegal immigrants for high deficits or chronic unemployment; you're simply doing the same thing Hitler did with the Jews, which is scapegoating. What we need is an immigration system modeled off of the genius McCain-Kennedy plan, which includes increased funds for border security (for conservatives), easier paths to citizenship for illegals and legals alike (for liberals), and an economic-centered naturalization plan for eager immigrants (for moderates and economic experts). This would greatly enhance U.S. economic growth in the long run by prioritizing aspiring academic over family reunification and solving the illegal immigration system without wholesale deportation or immediate amnesty. I see this type of reform in the cards over the next year or two, although the ensuing political war will last many months and cost millions of headaches and migraines.

Roy Wilson...REALLY? You are sick of Hispanic immigrants so you are moving to COSTA RICA? As an immigrant presumably. You DO realize that Costa Rica has universal health care and that you will be required to PAY for it? You DO realize that Costa Rica has no armed forces? You do realize that, as the wealthiest country in Central America, Costa Rica has a significant number of undocumented immigrants? It is a lovely country; but, quite frankly, I can't imagine why they would want YOU!

Dear Wants To-Duh, Puerto Rico is a Territory of the United States, They vote in the elections and have the rights to America's Resources legally. They will be the 51st state if OBama will act on their referendum. They are for all intent and purpose Citizens of the US. Roy's making a move to live where his retirement dollar goes a little further.

By the Border,

Were you being sarcastic? Costa Rica is not Puerto Rico. They are two different places.

Three things:

1. So the Republicans have become turncoats. Nice. It's as I said months ago, neither party gives a rat's behind about American citizens, esp. the middle class.

2. It's just amazing that the atheists are so elated about millions more Catholics possibly becoming citizens, because you know that almost all Latinos are Catholic. Atheists are quite vocal about hating Protestants (and I'm not Christian, so don't aim your guns at me), but Protestants are religion-lite compared to Catholics and to atheists' other favorite child, Muslims. I'm sure the Catholic Church is licking its chops about the booming numbers of Catholics in America, a country they nearly wrote off as too secular. I certainly lick my chops when I envision thousands of surly atheists kissing the Pope's ring! And the ensuing clashes between Muslims and Catholics will be a delight, reminescent of the Crusades. Can't wait! Pull up a chair and watch the show!

3. When our current batch of 20 million illegals become citizens, who do you think is going to pick crops, clean hotel rooms, and babysit your child? Do you think these new citizens are going to still do menial work? No, they're going to be wanting YOUR job. So, who's going to mow the lawn now? Guess we'll have to import some more ignorant, unskilled foreign laborers, and the whole process will start again in another 10 years.

Connect the dots, people. And preferably do it before you open Pandora's Box next time.

Steven-1488825

...And we have millions of desperate people who are ALREADY HERE and they are going to magically go away and we need a humane and realistic solution. They cannot just be given citizenship unless we deal with proper future immigration but they all cannot and should not be deported just because their "funny language, weird food and darker skin" make you poorly educated racists in the reds states uncomfortable. We need a realistic solution. ...

#1.25 - Fri Nov 9, 2012 7:16 AM EST

Meanwhile, you seem to have missed the fact that the country had this exact same discussion back in 1986. Amnesty was granted then as a one-time deal, so NO MORE AMNESTY! PERIOD. There is no room for further discussion on that topic, as compromise will simply encourage even MORE illegal immigration. Those illegal aliens already here can self-deport and then apply for entry the legal way, or else wait to get arrested and then deported (and yes, it can be done, contrary to claims from the panderers--to put it another way: "Yes, We Can!"). There are too many people standing in line trying to come here legally for us to pander to those who have illegally jumped ahead of them.

As for immigration quotas, requirements, the process, and the associated fees? By all means, let's examine them and see what can be done to make improvements wherever practical. But you're seriously barking up the wrong tree if you expect those of us who actually CARE about the rule of law to roll over on this issue like they did in 1986. Not going to happen.

Dandy416

Bill-2910238I do not understand how the left can defend amnesty for those who openly violate the law.

Its not just the left genius. Reagan granted amnesty to 3 million illegals in the 80's.

#1.41 - Fri Nov 9, 2012 7:51 AM EST

You might want to look at the history of that again. The same arguments about how "we can't deport all these people" being used now were used back then. Reagan agreed to a ONE-TIME amnesty as a compromise, in exchange for promises from the Democrats (who controlled the House) for strict enforcement which they did NOT keep. The Democrats aren't going to get another chance to pull that stunt. No more amnesty.

This whole immigration discussion is really a sideshow distraction, anyway. The Democrats refused to do anything on it even when they had unstoppable control of the government during 2009 and 2010, and could have passed whatever immigration legislation they wanted--despite the fact that it was a 2008 campaign promise to do so! So why should anyone in their right mind believe that this is suddenly an important issue to them?

By the border... as Sarah pointed out Roy Wilson's post said he was moving to COSTA Rica, not PUERTO Rico. Having completed 3rd grade geography along my way to a post graduate degree, I DO know the difference. Apparently, you do not! DUH!!! But don't let that little fact get in your way of declaring me wrong!

I'm hoping that the election can mean the end of the whole evil right wing Neo-Nazi like movement of my former party. The republicans! Seig Heil!

Unless you are 100% Native American, you have no right to complain about illegal immigration, since you and your famil have benefited from past liberal immigration policies. If today's immigration laws had been in place 300 years ago, NONE of us would be here.

Those that support amnesty have honestly put zero thought into the reality of what it would do to our country. Tossing millions more on welfare and medicaid will NOT help our country out.

Those that talk about us taking over this country from the indians... they took it over from someone else. Get the @!$%# over slavery, the old west, etc. This is the here and now, deal with it.

Alex,

How about those who hire illegals knowing they are illegal and the business only wants to make the biggest profit possible with their greed for money and power? We have a local foundry who until recently had 5 people with the same name working their and they had the same Social Security Number! Shouldn't the lust for profits and greedy businesses and corporations that allow this to go on and offer people jobs be put out of business? Oh, I have two illegals I work with teaching Eng. through the Literacy Council in my area. One is a doctor and the other is an engineer. Both with high paying jobs should we send them back and deport them or are all illegals equal?

The Tea Party Libertarians, the Machiavellian Karl Rove neoconservatives and the Religious Right are relegating the venerable Party of Lincoln -- the party that once freed the black slaves -- into a permanently smaller party. So they want smaller government, eh? Well, they're going to get their wish with a MUCH smaller, little party, of little future consequence.

By refusing to get into immigration reform, today's GOP are ensuring that American Latinos and legal immigrants of all stripes stay mired into a second-citizenship status.

If the GOP wants to survive and avoid the fate of their 19th century Whig brethren, they have to reject the Ayn Randians, the Karl Rovians and the Bible Thumpers. Otherwise, it's "Bye-Bye" Party of Lincoln, hell-o tiny little Party of Palin, Beck and Limbaugh, Forever!

The Ayn RyRandians, Karl Rovians & KockBagHeads could spell the end of the GOP !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Roy Wilson moving to Costa Rica.....That certainly ranks up there in the top best news I've heard this month.

Sailcat-2064101

Unless and until the GOP recognizes that Latino citizens are Americans just like Anglos and everyone else, they will continue to lose national elections and to get pushed back in local elections as the demographics of this country change.

GOSH! Gutless cowards want the US to surrender to Mexico.

Pick up a weapon America. This country belongs to YOU!

Sarah-3043284

...

And most of all, I know that being a human is not illegal.

...
#1.111 - Fri Nov 9, 2012 11:52 AM EST

That's irrelevant nonsense, since nobody ever said that it was! However, being in a foreign country without permission is illegal for a human. And in many countries, the punishment for that crime isn't pleasant.

Vince-545056

Unless you are 100% Native American, you have no right to complain about illegal immigration, since you and your famil have benefited from past liberal immigration policies. If today's immigration laws had been in place 300 years ago, NONE of us would be here.

#1.145 - Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:42 AM EST

You mean if they'd had immigration laws, a system to enforce them, and the ability to repel invaders coming into the country illegally? Then maybe you'd be correct. But they didn't.

However, we DO have laws, a system to enforce them, and the ability to repel invaders coming into the country illegally--we just aren't DOING it--that's the complaint!

FAIL.