You already live in the world of part-time jobs and have been for many years. Maybe you just were not aware of that. Ask a Walmart employee about their health insurance. Why do you think so many working people did not have health insurance?

Many jobs I have seen in recent years are contract positions. 6 months to a year with the option to renew should the hiring company choose to do so. The thing that strikes me is that these type of jobs have become more prevalent, and that they do not offer health care benefits.

This may be the new "normal."

A person with a defeatist attitude are already defeated.

Laura-313822

Welcome to the world of part-time jobs.

companies are as strong as their workforce and most already recognize that they have to stay competitive with compensation + benefits. I doubt that they will start hiring part-time to save on providing health insurance. If that was the case, they wouldn't have had provided health insurance benefits when it was VOLUNTARY.

Unless, of course, you are referring to Wal-Mart but Wal-Mart has been working people at 35hrs/week to keep them "part-time" for decades now so no worries there.

You people crack me up.

Time and time again I've seen one statement come from a representative (or candidate) and a completely different statement follow quickly from staffers. Who do these people think they are, and more importantly, who the pluck is paying their salaries? HCRA is the law of the land -period-

Boehner temporarily sobered up and faced reality for a little bit. Let's give him some small credit for it for now. I would like to think he may have a bi-partisan bone in his body, but history doesn't look good in regards to that. Still, hope does spring eternal.

@ Laura-313822,

What a stupid comment! Have you ever talked to someone that works at Staples? I have and I do, we work part time for minimum wage! My manager makes $9 an hour, what the hell was you expecting Romney to do he isn't already doing?

@ Roosterboy,

The sad thing is Republican's lost in Ohio but Democrats didn't run anyone against Boehner, no one ran against him and I wanted him gone for his lack of work and excess drinking. We need people in Washington that spend more time working and less time drinking.

LogicRequired - You Fail a simple logical test. Re-read the original post (and your quote) " the ability to sell their product is." (whats important). Your example shows a price that (accroding to you)would impede Coke Cola from selling their product, and is therefore outside the scope of the scenario.

Also consider that the price on anything today is such that our forefathers would never have been able to conveive of paying the price. Could someone in 1930 pay $4/gallon for Gas? Yet people today, do. PArt of this is inflaction and devaluation of currency, but that is not the whole story.

@conner-389725 - the cost of labor is not whats important.

Sorry conner-389725, but labor costs are the highest cost most businesses have to deal with. Hiring people is the last thing they want to do, and when they have no other choice, they will do everything they can to keep labor/benefit costs down. This is why companies don't want to provide medical coverage and why they hire part-time and contract employees.

Why do you think so many companies automate everything they can and run their exempt employees into the ground before hiring more?

But, I do agree w you: "tax cuts don't create jobs and health care is not gonna cost jobs" ... it's proven.

Although you might want to recognize that corporate taxes and expenses are simply passed on (indirectly) to customers through higher prices.

Don't waste your time on the righties, they still don't get it why Romney lost so badly, and they never will, all they see hate. We may not of liked Romney, but hate has never came into the picture, that's the difference between the right and left, you are truly a sad bunch people.

*

This is all FOX baloney. Read:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/eop/cea/Health-Care-Reform-and-Small-Businesses

I guess I should qualify my last statement. Even though Boehner is playing nice at this very moment, the Democrats should really be laying the groundwork right now to put a better candidate than him in his Ohio district, so that he will be voted out in 2014. His record is just too awful to hope for a sudden reformation of his soul. It's a really bad bet that he will change his ways. So, let's go after his Ohio district with everything we've got. Boehner, thanks for the decent and polite gesture, but at the end of the day, you have done so much damage to this country that you have lost everyone's trust.

Continually amused by the conservatives--who accuse liberals of being lazy, government-happy, welfare lovers--whining about jobs and how Obama hasn't found one for them yet. Get over yourselves, get off your ass, and go find a job. I have never had trouble finding one, and I've moved around quite a bit. You favor the private sector and government staying out, right? Wasn't your campaign motto a smear of one of Obama's misinterpreted quotes--"We built that"? So go build your jobs! Do you need Obama's permission to go back to school or update your resume and make yourselves useful? Never in my life have I heard a passel of childish, spoiled, entitled brats like the conservatives of today.

Obamacare will do WONDERS for private health insurance companies, believe me. That's the one qualm I have with it--still leaves too much control in the hands of those corporations. They know it, too--believe me, I worked for one for two years, right when the bill first passed. They were ALL FOR IT. What I don't get is why people think that Big Corporation is any less terrifying than Big Government. We all know the role the private sector played in the economic downturn is HUGE, we also know the government bailout of the auto industry saved thousands of jobs. It's time to put a stop to unbridled corporations swindling us all and shipping our jobs overseas and giving their corrupt CEOs astronomical bonuses, even when they go bankrupt. Neither am I a proponent of big government, but there is a balance to be made.

TO: guenavere who wrote:

"Of course he will. He is a dictator, remember. A company has the right to hire and fire anyone they want. And if Obama tries to interfere, it is a case for the Supreme Court because it is going against individual rights."

Well, first you called it "A company" then you said it has "individual rights". That's 2 different things.

Are you Mitt Romney, saying that Corporations are People Too, again?

If anybody, even a company, conspires to break the law, it could be considered a crime, especially in light of the way all those Wall Street firms cost the American Taxpayers billions of dollars by exploiting loop holes, and things of that nature.

Wow, what a lot of whiney losers.

Drop the Fox fearmongering.

Pretty funny how Logic and BB427 and JCL whine about jobs going overseas..

while repubs on 7-19-2012 blocked the bill that would remove tax breaks for companies that take America jobs overseas.

On 7-19-2012 the repub blocked the same bill that would give tax breaks to companies that would bring jobs back to America.

Romney's profitable Bain company has perfected the art of destroying American jobs in America, sending the jobs overseas, then setting up companies off shore that receive the profits, then keep those profits offshore to avoid paying taxes to America......

Only Repubs are to blame for American Jobs going overseas.....No ifs and or BUTTS about it!

Reading all the teabagger whining, crying and pouting on this thread after even Boehner finally accepts the obvious is like......lit's like victory. Cry on baggers, cry on!

"tax cuts don't create jobs"

AMEN! A few weeks ago, I hit a Republican friend of mine with that line and I even prefaced it with "By themselves,". Man, did we ever get into it; the ensuing argument almost cost me that friend. Memo to self: no more political talk with that particular individual. Going forward, I'll be sticking to golfing, beers, and sports talk with him.

TO: MizzC who wrote:

"American Girl-You are totally uniformed. When the reality of Obama's great healthcare plan finally sinks in and you understand what it is going to do to businesses in this country.... I can tell by your comment you have no idea how it works or why it's bad. Obama made a law that says to all businesses they have to offer and pay for healthcare for their full time employees..."

I don't about all this talk of companies trying to thumb their noses at the law because they don't like what the law says. If it were as simple as "not liking" some of our laws and civil obiedience was an option, I'm sure folks would be breaking the law left and right, and some probably do.

But I do know that every job I ever had in my entire working life has always, traditionally, offered some type health care, the companies got into group plans that saved money for the employees, and passed along the cost of that health care on to the employees.

Some employers paid 1/2 the cost as a "fringe benefit" to entice people to work for them, and the employee paid the other half.

I don't how, when or why some companies just decided they didn't even want to pay 1/2 anymore, but obviously when they did that, it caused enough problems for the United States Congress to be forced to intervene.

starsailing

Pretty funny how Logic and BB427 and JCL whine about jobs going overseas..

while repubs on 7-19-2012 blocked the bill that would remove tax breaks for companies that take America jobs overseas.

don't forget this one:

S. 3816 (Creating American Jobs and Ending Offshoring Act ) A bill to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to create American jobs and to prevent the offshoring of such jobs overseas.

Republicans = all talk, no action.

guenavere

Of course he will. He is a dictator, remember. A company has the right to hire and fire anyone they want. And if Obama tries to interfere, it is a case for the Supreme Court because it is going against individual rights.

You are correct. And the IRS has the right to audit that company for the next 15,000 years. Also "We the People" through our locally elected representatives have the power to "Execute" that company by revoking it's authority to do business.

Accepting the obvious does not make the obvious superior. Time will tell.

American Girl-724855

TO: Laura-313822 who wrote:

"Welcome to the world of part-time jobs."

I'm pretty sure President Obama is going to have something to say about that.

Of course he will....Bush did it

i see the left is using the old "we won, you lost" argument again, i feel sorry for those who see government as the solution. you voted for a guy who still does not have any experience at being a leader or anything else positive, hes still a below average lawyer.

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

Clinton, Holder, and the Secretary of Treasury are all jumping ship....

MIZZ C - Healthcare coverage is a cost of doing business, if your friends can't make it and afford health insurance too then they don't know how to factor that in, as a cost of running a business. My husband and I have a micro-small business - 2 employees=us - insurance for us (60+ age) & our 21 year old son runs $1224.00 a month!! A lot, Yes! But we factor that into our pricing structure. And our premiums have actually come down since ACA has started to take effect and out of pocket medical costs have gone down, because mamograms, PAP's & colonoscopies are now covered free!!

Boehner has two choices start being his own man and control these radicals that think they own the country or keep being the yes man drunkard he has been the last 4 years.

Either way the Country will move Forward without the republican party in due time.

It's heartening to see Boehner is giving up on his fruitless quest to take down the national health care program. Perhaps now he and the rest of the House Republicans will join the Dems in working to come up with solutions to America's problems instead of adding to them.

Logic....would you like to stop pointing the finger at Dems and playing the fake rant that the economy problems are because of dems....IT all goes back to the night that President Obama took office....15 republicons met at the Caucus room restaurant to pledge against the recovery of the American economy.

Republicons Pledging to vote against every bill that would make President Obama a one term president. Paul Ryan, Cantor, Newt Gingrich taking the pledge like traitors to their oath of office.

Republicons then created over 300 filibusters, a record amount, trying to stop the economy from recovering....

Then people like Logic come on this blog and complain about the econmy that republicons successfully slowed down, did not recover fast enough.......Boo........HOO! Repubs crying crocodile tears....

Hear that? That's the sound of more jobs being shipped overseas. Nice going, libs.

Fine. If corporations want to settle for sub-standard products, and they're willing to pay the taxes that should come with offshoring around the HCRA, then they're welcome to knock themselves out. We know goons like you will keep buying their crap.

My House of Representative is a Republican Doctor against healthcare for all. In my view, that is like a cop against protecting law and order. Thank You, East Tennessee for 4 more years of Dr. No, Phil Roe.

What a difference a SHELLACKING makes!

That is true Sailcat, Boehner is giving up on his Don Quixote quest against health care reform. Boehner fought against the windmill and the windmill won!

Healthcare coverage is a cost of doing business, if your friends can't make it and afford health insurance too then they don't know how to factor that in, as a cost of running a business.

Small Company and you obviously care about the employees since your the employees. But imagine if you were a company who had thousands, and by dumping healthcoverage you could pay a $2,000 fine instead of a $6,000 health cost. The health care act has made it so companies win and empoyees lose.

Republicans thrive on lies and deception. Germany, Britain, Canada, Australia and Switzerland are countries that share with all other 1st world countries except the United States in having national health care yet they all have lower unemployment than us. Australia even has a $15 minimum wage though republicans claim our $7 an hour wage is far too high. Countries without national health care include China and North Korea. Having employee's isn't an option whether it costs more or not. It's kind of silly when billionaires sent their employees notices that if Obama was re elected they could lose their jobs as he couldn't afford higher taxes. Then shut it down others will take your place. They didn't get to be billionaires by being over taxed.

LogicReguired

I'm pretty sure President Obama is going to have something to say about that.

If some companies try to exploit loop holes and things of that sort, it won't take long to enact a plan to counter such a scheme.

Maybe these things should have been thought about before passing the law. Every action has a re-action, and you liberals think you can just take to people and they aren't going to change their behavior. You counter such a scheme with a new law, companies counter with a new scheme, new law, new scheme, new law, new scheme, and so on and so on until you get what we have now, tens of thousands of pages of tax code, regulations, bureaucracy, all of which make job creation harder and more expensive. And you wonder why companies ship jobs overseas.

Why are Republicans such victims? Yes companies can come up with a scheme to bypass the law. And the government can revoke their authorization to conduct business. And the business can move overseas and the Government can refuse to let them import goods.

I getting a little sick of Republicans whining about how tough the government is on businesses and the wealthy. When I was about 5 years old the top tax rate was over 90% and businesses did not close down. The wealthy didn't move, they just did what they've always done and got richer.

@Starsailing,

I've made a pledge with a bunch of Republicans in my neighborhood this latest election, so I guess Obama won't accomplish anything again. After all we have about as much power as the Republicans did Obama's first two years.

The good thing about the election is that Obama is going to held accountable for his own mistakes and his wrong policies, economic, energy, foreign are no more Bush fault. The time is ticking and the economy he never fix will go down the cliff.

We are looking at this all wrong. If you can`t stop the system, overwhelm the system. It`s going to emplode over time anyway.

Welcome to U.S.S.A. - United Socialist States of America

Tony-1043056

First off let's get the facts straight and cut out all the propoganda BS. Obamacare (ACA) does not provide insurance to anyone!!!!! It requires you to buy it. If you cannot afford insurance today, you will not be able to afford insurance in 2014, therefore, you will still not have insurance, but you will be paying a fine to the IRS.

I have been asking this question all along. What is going to be done about this? The @!$%# is going to be hitting the fan in all directions here real soon. Enjoy the party now libs, it wont last long.

TO: Kornfed who wrote:

"Clinton, Holder, and the Secretary of Treasury are all jumping ship..."

They are not!

It's very traditional for Presidential staff to submit their resignations and then be asked to either stay on, or their resignation can be accepted.

I am so sure that neither Eric Holder OR Hillary Clinton are going anywhere!

Bill Clinton was such a very big part of President Obama's successful re-election campaign that I'd be more inclined to believe that the Clintons were being given offices and residence in the White House, than anything else.

Anyone, liberal or conservative, who is comparing Obamacare to socialized medicine is DEAD WRONG. The power still lies with health insurance companies. They will set your rates and your benefits. Private sector, just like the Republicans want. Only now they can't deny you coverage for pre-existing conditions, so everyone qualifies--and everyone PAYS IN. More money for health insurance companies, and more people to spread the risk, and everyone has equal access to what SHOULD be a basic right--healthcare.

The stupidity on this thread is astounding. You people must be living pretty large if you think that healthcare wasn't in deep @!$%# before Obama came along. We have the WORST healthcare in the developed world. There are several third-world countries who have better healthcare than we do. That's accounting for cost, accessibility, quality of care--everything.

Additionally, I'm really unclear as to why you think Romney would have done any better. HE IMPLEMENTED ALMOST THE EXACT SAME MOTHER F*CKING PLAN IN MASSACHUSETTS. If he did get away with repealing Obamacare, do you have any idea what that would do to the system? And then he'd just turn around implement the exact same thing with a different name, you morons would eat it up, and the system would just have to re-do everything! SERIOUSLY GET YOUR HEADS CHECKED.

Wow people never get enough bashing Obama. Prices are higher under Obama than they were Bush. Doh. Prices were higher under Bush than they were under Clinton, it's called inflation. As for food stamps they also hit all time highs under Bush I didn't see the posts commenting on it then, why now? Bush dumped 5 million people on unemployment, of course more people are on food stamps.

From Factcheck.org.

Gingrich would have been correct to say the number now on food aid is historically high. The number stood at 46,224,722 persons as of October, the most recent month on record. And it’s also true that the number has risen sharply since Obama took office.

But Gingrich goes too far to say Obama has put more on the rolls than other presidents. We asked the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Food and Nutrition service for month-by-month figures going back to January 2001. And they show that under President George W. Bush the number of recipients rose by nearly 14.7 million. Nothing before comes close to that.

And under Obama, the increase so far has been 14.2 million. To be exact, the program has so far grown by 444,574 fewer recipients during Obama’s time in office than during Bush’s.

It’s possible that when the figures for January 2012 are available they will show that the gain under Obama has matched or exceeded the gain under Bush. But not if the short-term trend continues. The number getting food stamps declined by 43,528 in October. And the economy has improved since then.

Update, Feb. 5: Revised USDA data released in February showed the downward trend continued for a second straight month in November, when the number of persons getting food stamps was 134,418 fewer than it had been at the peak.

Obamacare is the law of the land? yeah, well so are the Immigration laws that are for the most part being ignored. i guess they will enforce or not enforce laws depending upon which action will result in corporate profit

TO: oskar-1391552 who wrote:

"The good thing about the election is that Obama is going to held accountable for his own mistakes..."

What? You mean we're going to finally have an open discussion about Bush and the Republicans, or did you plan to skip over all that and play like Democrats are the only ones who are capable of making any "mistakes"?

Republicans are just gonna never let that go; the horrible failed policies of the entire 8 years of Bush and Republicans and their forcing the entire United States into the 2nd Great Depression.

Wait, are Republicans still planning to make all "mistakes" retroactive so that you can blame President Obama for everything Bush destroyed?

American Girl-724855

TO: Kornfed who wrote:

"Clinton, Holder, and the Secretary of Treasury are all jumping ship..."

They are not!

It's very traditional for Presidential staff to submit their resignations and then be asked to either stay on, or their resignation can be accepted.

I am so sure that neither Eric Holder OR Hillary Clinton are going anywhere!

Eric Holder has made his intentions known, and Hilary is leaving. I am sorry you had to hear it from me.

My company currently has open enrollment. In a notice regarding the ACA, we already provided almost all the requirements under ACA, so very little changes. In fact, the only change occurs under flexible spending accounts where the limit is reduced.

So either my company has been responsible in providing the workers with the healthcare they should have, or the "end of days" predictions from the right are a little over-exaggerated. I'm guessing the later.

Honestly, every small business owner I know is not concerned about the healthcare law . . . they are concerned with the difficulty in getting capital. That does not mean they want all regulations removed, they simply want to tone them down a little so that the banks do not kill them with financing. That is the responsible, moderate reaction. Not complete removal, just middle ground.

But again, I know a lot of responsible small business owners who already provide good health care to their employees... even if that means their own paycheck is slightly smaller than it could be. So the ACA does not concern them. It's nice to know the responsible employers will continue to succeed while the overly-greedy ones will struggle with the new law. Even more ironic, these same greedy conservatives practice a religion that considers greed a sin.

TO: LogicReguired who wrote:

I AGREE! Find a Government program and sign up for your piece of the hand out pie, after all it will be all gone soon.

Republicans have been doing that for 100 years, and that's exactly how Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan, and bunch of other Republicans got their first piece of money, was from the handouts!

Look at Republican Michelle "Welfare Queen" Bachmann who has 23 foster kids, getting 23 welfare checks EVERY month, plus food stamps, and she's got her husband milking medicaid for tens of thousands of American Taxpayer Dollars EVERY year.

I'm pretty sure President Obama is going to have something to say about that.

If some companies try to exploit loop holes and things of that sort, it won't take long to enact a plan to counter such a scheme.

Are you for real you don't have a clue on what's going on let me tell you like it is we can hire all the part workers we want I myself wont do it but I might just shut down like all my other small business buddy's are talking about and that's across a the nation Honey it's been a vary vary tough four years under this president ask yourself when was the last time you bought an item that said made Greece on it and now welcome to the new America

Pretty sure about what?

TO: Kornfed who wrote:

"...Eric Holder has made his intentions known, and Hilary is leaving. I am sorry you had to hear it from me."

Being that NONE of those people work for you, how would you know who is and is not going to be working for the President of the United States?

Wait, are Republicans still planning to make all "mistakes" retroactive so that you can blame President Obama for everything Bush destroyed?

Are you liberals going to blame Bush for the next 50 years, be real . For how long Reagan blame his predecessor. Obama want to be hired to fix the economy , not to blame others for his failure. Nobody hire a CEO with that attitude.

Tony best part is insurance agents such as myself who rely on group insurance will be out of a job in 4-6 years.

1. Mandates = higher costs = Gov't Option

example: mandated age ratios=== 3 to 1 ratio for 20yr old vs 60 yr old people currently its approx 6 to 1 so a 20yr old costs $100 the 60 yr old will cost $600. Under Obamacare the 20 yr old will jump to $200 and the 60 yr old who costs a lot to insure will stay at $600. Costs to employees and employers will jump.

As rates sky rocket the new gov't moto is the insurance companies are evil and we need to fix this thus the $50 office call , $2,000 deductible gov't plan will be put into place.

Since agents are not part of the exchanges or the gov't option we loose.

Since the gov't can subsidize its costs this will eventually put the Major Med carriers out of business since they can't compete.

2. Pay insurance or pay the fine

example: fine = approx $416 per employee if the cost of insurance is $500 per month then it is cheaper to pay the fine. When the employee goes to the "exchange" online and purchases insurance I as an agent just lost my group and most or all its members to the internet.

That is two small examples why over 200,000 health agents will be adding to the 47 million on food stamps

Thanks Obama from myself and my wife & kids

There are so many idiots posting here, with KNOWN lies!

STARSAILING: THERE IS NOTHING IN THE TAX CODE that allows for tax credits when a company ships jobs over seas...an Obama confirmed LIE and you, like a robot,with NO brsain wave, are spewing false democrat's talking lies!

LARRY: LIKE IS NORMAL, you have your facts confused... IT is the lie and decieve democrats that are the purverors of deciet and deception....COOK County, Chicago style .

AS to Obama Care the law of the land..... WE should what obama has done in the first four years.... REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE the law and not enforce it.... like the immigration laws.

NOT SINCE the fall of Greece and ROME, have stupid people destroyed a great nation..... witness the 2012 U S Election!

Are you really that dumb? When Reagan ran for re election unemployment was under 7.5% and the economy was creating twice as many jobs as the current "recovery". Both Reagan and Obama had unemployment get up to over 10%, Reagan was able to bring it down by creating jobs, Obama has brought it down by not counting people in the labor force anymore. Seriously, what a stupid comment.

You call yourself logicrequired then stoop to lies and twisting facts to make a point. Reagan faced a recession but no meltdown in banks, housing and financial institutions, far different scenario. As someone who was an adult when Reagan was president you're seriously misinformed. Reagan spent his way out of the recession by massive spending. Increasing our carrier task forces from 3 to 10, a massive star wars program and massive military build up which was the most massive military peacetime build up in history. In today's dollars Obama would have had to spend 10 trillion or more to equal what Reagan did. Can you see republicans supporting that? That's not an option today and you know it. As for the Obama not counting those no longer looking you're a fool. They use the same data as Reagan did they count people applying for unemployment. Pretending they use some different formula is a lie. They've never counted those that drop out of the workforce. That's a new republican twist the facts line.

Please, Mr. Speaker,

Call the House back into session and push for our country getting back to work faster. It is the right thing to do. Thanks.

A voter

Job Creators? CONSUMERS ARE THE JOB CREATORS NOT EMPLOYERS!!!

I for one am SO F'ING TIRED OF THE BS conservatives are trying to peddle.

Consumers buy, creating demand, creating the need for someone to fill that demand, creating a job. So ridiculously simple it's sad that you just don't get it. Why you buy the crap the right wing wackos in the Senate and House are selling is just beyond me.

So when someone asks you "How many jobs have you created?", respond "Thousands! Every time I make a purchase it helps create the demand for a job.". That will shut them up.

The problem is that most of you conservatives, especially the partisan hacks on this site, lack the ability to independently think and instead just listed to the sound bytes and talking points fed to you from Fox News, Rush etc.

If you give a tax break to a rich person, they are just going to put that extra money in the bank. If you give it to a middle or lower class income bracket tax payer, chances are significantly higher they are going to spend it and stimulate the economy and create jobs.

So, to all of you partisan hacks that don't know the first thing about economic and how they work. SHUT THE HELL UP!

I have been asking this question all along. What is going to be done about this?

Perhaps you can ask the Heritage Foundation what will be done about that. You know, that conservative think-tank that created this health care plan.

Or maybe you can ask Bob Dole, seeing as how he pushed this exact same plan as an alternative to Hillary-care.

Romney might even know the answer, because he implemented the exact same law before Obama.

Honestly, I am surprised a conservative like you has to ask these questions, seeing as how your own political party created this thing in the first place. They have been pushing it for over 20 years, where have you been?

Boehner: “Obamacare is the law of the land”

You got that one right sir! Let it be! Time will tell how effective the Obamacare is. Furthermore, in 4 years time if it’s not working, make its removal part of your election platform and let the people decide.

Kornfed

http://www.businessinsider.com/study-watching-fox-news-makes-you-less-informed-than-watching-no-news-at-all-2012-5

Maybe you should reconsider your last comment.

LogicReguired

Are you really that dumb? When Reagan ran for re election unemployment was under 7.5% and the economy was creating twice as many jobs as the current "recovery". Both Reagan and Obama had unemployment get up to over 10%, Reagan was able to bring it down by creating jobs, Obama has brought it down by not counting people in the labor force anymore. Seriously, what a stupid comment.

The only difference is Obama was handed the 10% unemployment and Reagan exacerbated the situation. Seriosuly? Watch more fox news. Are you saying the calculation used to derive unemployment changed from Reagan to Obama? Of course it did - why? Because Reagan had disatrous unemployment numbers and you jeopardy contestants need to pin something on Obama. Oh by the way - did you know Reagan raised taxes? Truly a republican icon.

You people and your faulty line of thinking are going the way of the dodo. Ironically. So sit down and let the adults fix the country that you people broke.

Remember voters: YOU wanted this!

oskar-1391552

Wait, are Republicans still planning to make all "mistakes" retroactive so that you can blame President Obama for everything Bush destroyed?

Are you liberals to blame Bush for the next 50 years, be real . For how long Reagan blame his predecesor. learn something.

Are you kidding me? Republicans are still blaming Reagan's predecessor. So I guess that's probably what you can expect regarding Bush.

Kornfed

I watch Fox news. Maybe you should try it...you might be better informed.

ROFL!

hmmm.... are you guys serious? A FOR PROFIT company is willing to only provide part time jobs without benefit just so they can maximize profit???? DUH!!!! Are you wing nuts still stuck???

Businesses will adjust their path to profitability according to the rules. If the rule posses loopholes, then it is most likely that they will take the short cut to profitability. It is simply game theory. It is not a science. AND that is exactly why government is not a business, and not putting profit ahead of agenda with dictates rules and laws.

Bonehead Boehner,

Then act like it and finally stop walking out of meetings. You didn't make Obama a one term president, in fact you probably added to his re-election. "Compromise" is not a dirty word! "Republican" is!

In 2014, health insurance and health savings plans will be taxable income. I'm already paying over $7,000 in insurance and putting over $2,800 in our savings plan. My family is in the "lowest of the low" middle class. Just exactly how is Obamacare supposed to help me. To me is seems it will hurt the middle class because we are the ones paying for it.

Danny, I watch FOX too and it is the best Comedy Network out there!

Christian, if the American people have less money to spend consuming goods or services because their taxes are higher, how does that stimulate job creation?

For all you saying that people will lose their jobs over this, lets enlighten you. All costs are passed along. The profit margin will not be less because if there is extra cost to the business based on insurance costs, those costs will be baked into the price of the product.

oskar-1391552

The good thing about the election is that Obama is going to held accountable for his own mistakes...

What a positive and encouraging outlook oskar! Your friends must be Taliban and Al Qaeda types.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=hillary%20clinton%20leaving%20secretary%20of%20state&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.enstarz.com%2Farticles%2F9081%2F20121108%2Fhillary-clinton-leaving-secretary-of-state-president-in-2016.htm&ei=EFCcUKGULYHV0gHfrYCADw&usg=AFQjCNED8qzvsc3A4xrSinkDpJ-2SGpaYA

Here, then read this source you rot-brains.

Larry-367607

Nice try but I was in the military and there were personnel cuts, early retirement and base closures under Reagan. He did try to modernize the military after the cuts of Carter, brought back the B-1 and star wars. But he definetly cut the military and at the same time defeated Russia without a shot fired. You really need to get your facts straight.

As far as Obama care it is the law but only because it is a tax, get it right libbies.

Here's a question, Republicans/conservatives... WHAT'S YOUR BETTER ALTERNATIVE TO OBAMACARE? What would Mittens have done better (or different)? Ok that's two questions, hope your heads don't explode.

*crickets*

Oskar,

Just like bush is accountable and you right wingers keep saying stop bringing him up. Exit polls show that 63% of Americans who voted still blame much of Americas current problems on Bush. I know the right doesn't like me saying that , but it might have also played a big part in Obama's winning!

And yes, I know my post before last had typos. I'm steaming mad and in a hurry. That's why I have so many typos/misspellings in that.

I'm fed up with the ignorance. Fed up with the morons that won't do their own fact checking on reputable sites. Fed up with idiots that parrot Rush, or Glen, or Hannity or any other of those douches that have an agenda to line their pockets and make sure they stay lined.

They use things like gay marriage and abortion to manipulate you. They use scary (to you) words like socialism. All in an effort to brain wash the feeble minded rats that some of you are.

If you think socialism is so bad, don't use our public roads. Don't use our public schools. Don't call the police when you are in danger. Don't call the fire department when your house is burning down. You don't get to. Why? Because you HATE socialism. You believe it's such a scary word.

Capitalism is wonderful, it really is. However, it need regulation to flourish. Without the regulations, we end up with things like the Great Recession. Without it we end up with Enron. Without it greed will ultimately destroy it. If we let this happen, then we are idiots for letting capitalism die because we were too simple minded to know that there has to be rules!

We also need a tad bit of socialism tied in to make society work. We need roads, police, schools and libraries etc. We need social security for the elderly so they are always taken care of. Don't you want your parents taken care of? We need health care for all of us so we don't die. We need to take care of our fellow man when they need a hand up to get back on their own two feet, lest you be the one who needs the help and is denied it.

THEY ARE NOT ENTITLEMENTS! They are EARNED BENEFITS we paid for and deserve them! Stop f'ing calling them that, you brain washed monkeys!

Rant over.

The Daily show? Nice study hahahah

Yes. How does it feel to know that a comedy show has more accurate information than your news source?

Remember, Fox News was also the channel that insisted Romney would still win Ohio after it was already called. Accurate? Not so much.

The tea-republicans are still whinning and crying after they got spanked, p*wned, beat-up, whooped, crapped on, blitzed, blasted, shelacked, owned, crinckled, dogged, frapped, jacked, lumped, mauled, neutered, pricked, rammed, rumbled, stomped, and torn-up......I could be jumping around in the endzone and spiking the election-ball saying I told you so, predicted, fore-told, reasoned, promised, thought, and just knew Obama/Biden would win!! So like my friend Rodney King once said, "Can't we all just get along?" NAAAAHHHHH, not really, we won you lost HAHAHHAAAA!! "4 more 4 44"

OBAMA/BIDEN 2012-2016 and Hilary Clinton for 8 more!!

Another source for Geithner leaving....

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=geithner%20leaving&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CC0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fabcnews.go.com%2Fblogs%2Fpolitics%2F2012%2F01%2Fgeithner-pretty-confident-hell-leave-obama-administration%2F&ei=nVGcUI_VNZS60AHr_IDoAg&usg=AFQjCNGrM2nSSk_51dq9vx6S0oHQbUcn0g

After reading every post above I am more worried than ever about our future. How could we have come to this point? If a business wants to open up a facility overseas we should punish them for it and prevent the importation of their products here? Seriously? If a business refuses to hire the 50th employee in order to avoid Obamacare's requirements we should revoke their ability to do business? Are you REALLY serious? If a business wants to LEGALLY hire only part time employees in order to avoid Obamacare requirements then the IRS should audit that business forever? Are you mad?

Conservatives have argued that larger government means less liberty. How are the posts of the liberals above not proof that at least when anonymous liberals often support less liberty?

It is a fair point to argue the previous healthcare financing scheme was flawed. It is wrong to think Obamacare makes it better. Some firms are going to jettison their healthcare plans and pay the fine, and those employees will have to buy their own plan which is not tax deductible. This makes sense to the business, all other things equal, but not to the employee. But you know what this REALLY makes sense for? It makes sense for a government that wants to get more tax revenue.

Someone above claimed their healthcare premiums are going DOWN, not that they aren't going up as fast, but that they actually are going down, because of Obamacare. Then went on to say their medical costs are falling because they are getting free medical services. I hate to point out the obvious, but costs continue to increase, and nothing, ever, is for free.

There are a few laudable goals of Obamacare. I think something should be done for preexisting conditions, for instance. But Obamacare itself is an atrocious law in every conceivable way. Each of us will become less free and costs will go up more than before, but all the while that happens quality and quantity of care will decline. It must. The only way the government can ever hope to "control costs" is to ration care (or deny it entirely) or to provide lower quality care.

Another source for Holder....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/holder-says-he-is-undecided-on-whether-to-stay-on-as-attorney-general/2012/11/08/698c5d80-29e2-11e2-bab2-eda299503684_story.html

Satisfied yet you cackling hyenas?

1st I am sick of the labels that is why I am an independent!!!!! And Boehner Obamacare may be your law of the land but as even the congress and IRS admit there is no way set up to enforce the fine for not carrying insurance, and I will NOT pay for insurance that I don't earn enough to pay for and still pay my bills. You want me to by insurance pay a living wage the fine is cheaper than being raped by Obama and his insurance cronies so Boehner eat your shorts!!!!

Kornfed:

Are you really that stupid? Like really that stupid? THEY WERE SAYING PEOPLE THAT WATCHED THE DAILY SHOW (A COMEDY) WERE ACTUALLY BETTER INFORMED THAN IMBECILES LIKE YOU THAT WATCHED FOX NEWS!!!

I am a computer scientist Kornfed. A very well paid one. My job depends on my logic, my intellect and my ability to analyze data.

And YES, I'm liberal. As a matter of fact 90% + of all scientists and people with college educations, and even a higher percentage once we start talking about advanced educations like PHDs and Masters degrees... are... wait for it... liberal.

Post 1.56 Socially Fed Up (and others who might spout the same argument about now we're going to have to pay for those folks!~) NEWS FLASH!!! We, who have health insurance, have ALL been paying for "those folks" all along, at the most expensive rates. They go to the Emergency Room for minor care because they don't have a doctor; or they go to the ER/HOSPITAL admission because they didn't seek care before they got too sick and had to be admitted, often to ICU or CCU. Those bills don't come cheap, in fact they are the very most expensive medical bills in comparison to private doctor visits. I used to work in a hospital and typed those ER reports. All those with insurance pay higher hospital rates because someone has to absorb the cost from those with no insurance. If people have insurance and get preventive care it should lower medical care a lot and should free up hospital beds when people are treated in a timely fashion.

Socially Fed-up

Welcome to Socialized Medicine... you voted for it, now enjoy it. Yes, everyone will 'have' health insurance, but we will ALL pay the price. Those of us who have worked our entire life for a retirement and health plan will now have to pay for this FREE coverage for thse of you who haven't earned it. As a retired person I still spend $1000 / month for health coverage even with my medical coverage.. even with Medicare. Who is going to pay for my family, certainly not those freeloaders who seek only 'that which is OWED them? Obamacare is only the first step to a change to Socialism... Not the American way.. Sleep tight America, your end has been foretold.

You do know, don't you, that Medicare is a type of socialism, that you seem to enjoy. You are comfortable with that I take it.

Well, the health reform act is going to help all of us who hold insurance policies. See, people with no health insurance go to the Emergency Room, and that cost is absorbed by insurance companies that pass the cost on to us,which raises our insurance rates. We are already paying for health care for free loaders. Now, we should not have to shoulder that burden

3score&4

oskar-1391552

The good thing about the election is that Obama is going to held accountable for his own mistakes...

What a positive and encouraging outlook oskar! Your friends must be Taliban and Al Qaeda types

First Taliban is not AlQaeda they work in similar way but they have different objectives, learn something. AlQaeda is the terrorist group that kill our Ambassador in Benghazi in a planned attack, but Obama instead blame an stupid film of Mohamad and apologize Muslims for more than 3 weeks, in order to be reelected. This administration will held responsible, this will not go away so easy like fast and furious.

Still waiting for a conservative, any conservative, to explain to me what he or she would consider a better alternative to Obamacare, and how/what Romney would do differently.

BTW, it's a fair complaint of leftists to demand an alternative which would be better than Obamacare. I could be snotty and remark that most any alternative is better, but let's instead be serious about this, since after all it is very serious stuff (I'm not sure leftists are serious about policy though, to be frank).

Congressional republicans, being more conservative, wanted to simply tinker with the existing sytem in order to address some of the basic positive goals of Obamacare. They got no where. I suggest a completely different system. Please, particularly if you are a liberal, think this through before asserting I want everyone dead.

1. End Medicare, Medicaid.

2. For every American (or adult with a dependent) provide a refundable tax credit based upon the actuarial cost of that person, or persons.

3. Make a portion of this credit convertible to cash should the recipient of it be able to buy suitable health care insurance at a cost lower than the actuarial expectation.

4. Eliminate all state and national prohibitions on insurance underwriting other than solvency protections.

5. Adjust the income tax rate to adjust for the refundable tax credit cost.

What would this do? Well, first, in just a few dozen pages it would be both readable and comprehendable. Second, it would allow everyone regardless of age or condition, to buy insurance for themselves. Third, it would make that person the owner of their own policy so that portability would be solved. And, fourth, because of the cost-saving incentive of the cash convertibility idea people would ration themselves in a way they want, but only to the extent they continue to have an approved plan.

But the fifth result would be everyone would be more free with less regulation to deal with. Liberals choose a different path. They gave us an incomprehensible law which has many tax increases along with wildly expanded government power over individuals. I think the reason is that liberals didn't want to actually solve the problems, they wanted to empower the government. And boy, have they.

You mean that booze swilling Boehnor and the republican circle jerk in the House(with single digit approval ratings) is going to actually try to do something to help the country instead of voting to end The ACA more than 40 times????? I'll believe it when I see it. Didn't the "American Teabag Taliban"(republicans) promise to make America and our President fail?? The only failure in our great country is the republican teabag Taliban Party....period! And you crazy connies wonder why you took a beating not only in the Presidential election but also lost seats in the House and Senate. Ahhhh, ignorance is bliss in the good ol' USA isn't it????

All the fuss is now happening because Obamacare was a botch job from the start. Now all the businesses are trying to find ways to wiggle off the hook (as are some states). They should have made it a system unconnected directly to employers. It should have been like extending medicare to everybody. It would have been simpler too since medicare is an established system. The idea of national healthcare would have been great...if they did it right. The way they did it, Romneycare would have been just as good.

CHARGE OFF THE FISCAL CLIFF!

You Democratic and Republican radicals want it. Stop lying already.

Republicans want more taxes and Democrats want less unions. Anybody saying otherwise is a liar. Otherwise there wouldn't be a majority of Republican and Democratic incumbents re-elected.

The first step to recovery is to admit you have a problem. Say the following:

"My name is First Read. I am a liar and a troll."

So when someone asks you "How many jobs have you created?", respond "Thousands! Every time I make a purchase it helps create the demand for a job.". That will shut them up

Christian

This is why our economy is screw up, people like you have not idea how business work. Are you a lawyer, no offense?

Kornfed is just some kind of sow!

Running people on part time has been going on for YEARS at Republican owned companies, that's why they hate Unions, these people that are attempting to use their silly scare tactics need to look around, people can see right through the BS that is why your party lost, there is no requirement that the employer pay for your health care at all, so why would your job be in jeopardy or your hours be cut, I hate to say this but you people sound stupid as SH_T ....

What a bunch of outrageous comments!

Not everyone who chose to vote against Obama is a member of the tea party and it's just rude to call everyone who disagrees with someone a "teabagger."

And American Girl....you are just totally ill-informed. Every one of your comments show a total lack of maturity and knowledge of laws and business.

Rich, I do appreciate your response to my question (maybe you weren't addressing me but it's a question I've asked at least 3 times on that thread).

Unfortunately, I did think carefully about those options and I don't see how that does anything except muddle the current healthcare system AND tax system further. Obamacare already does some of those things--like eliminating prohibitions on underwriting. I'm also not sure what you mean by "individual actuarial costs". Actuaries don't set premium prices on individuals, they set them according to the performance of groups and pools of individuals. The overwhelming amount of work that would go into actuaries assigning actuarial costs to individuals would be STAGGERING and more than confusing... and pretty similar to underwriting. What you're doing is making healthy people pay less, and sick people pay more, which is what was broken about the old system. Also, under Obamacare, people will STILL have their own policies, and still pay for them (unless they're under an income level). I'm liberal, but not necessarily a fan of big government--if there's ANY industry that needs regulation, it's insurance companies. There is a balance to be found between the free market and regulation, and that's what Obamacare is trying to accomplish. Despite all the doomsday prophesies (and the predictions of rainbows and sunshine for everyone), no one really knows how this is going to play out until 2014.

Silly GOP/TP.

When it was called Romneycare in Massachusetts, the Republicans liked it and said how well it worked.

So now it's called Obamacare and the Republicans/TP are hyperventilating over how demonic and evil it is.

Sigh.

The GOP/TP would not even attempt to amend parts they did not like. They refused to work with the President to find a compromise. And who really has to pay for their refusal to even modify it?

Americans.

Even my own neighbor said to me about a month ago that she was scared of the tattoo or microchip that we would all have to get if Obamacare was passed. I said, "Whaaaat?"

Crazy Fox News rumors.

Thanks a lot, GOP/TP, making everybody's life harder.

Hi Preceded,

Mr. Romney wasn't clear about what he would have replaced Obamacare with, so we can't really debate that point. But I did give you an answer (there is a bit more to it than my list of points but that is the gist of a better plan, imo) and I would like to hear what you think of it.

Rich

I know that people like you hate liberals, and that you will most likely call me liberal for the mere fact that I do not ascribe to extreme-right principles. That being said, I did read your idea, without bias, and considered the ramifications.

There is, however, one issue I find. Naturally, many people will elect to forgo coverage in favor of the tax credit . . . specifically young, healthy people that rarely need medical attention. This creates two problems:

1) With the majority of insurance holders being elderly and sick, requiring health services, this would cause premiums to skyrocket. The young, healthy population acts as a price buffer in insurance plans. So although I may not need healthcare now, my premiums are still paid, funding the elderly and sick who do require healthcare. Without my premiums, the companies would have to increase costs to cover their customers. This is the very basis for insurance, and why we use it in the first place. Your plan does not address this problem.

2) Those who do not buy insurance will still go to emergency rooms when the need arises (just like they have done in the past). If they can not afford the bill, what do we do with them? This was the entire reason we needed health care reform in the fist place, because people who made the decision not to buy insurance still went to emergency rooms and WE ALL paid for them. So, apart from forcing them to buy their own insurance, how else do we address that problem?

KornFed:

There have been others like it. I give up. Talking to people like you is a waste of oxygen, and or the energy it takes me to type. You apparently have no brain to absorb facts. As they say, "Facts are not a conservatives best friend".

oskar-1391552:

No, I'm not a lawyer. I am computer scientist and a business owner. I understand very much how business works thank you. It's called trickle up, not down.

Why do you think consumer spending is the largest part of the economy? Why do you think even Bush asked everybody to go out and spend? When we don't spend, businesses have to let people go and shut down.

I don't keep people employed just because I want to or am trying to be a good citizen. I do it because I need their help to make my business run. Why? Because people are purchasing our services.

It sounds like you are the one who needs to get a clue.

I'm done on this board. Everyone has an arbitrary line drawn in the sand. Nobody is every going to be convinced of anything, especially those on the right. It's just the same tired a$$ people arguing talking points over and over. Very little intelligent discussion about anything.

I AM FED UP WITH IGNORANCE AND STUPIDITY! GOODBYE RIGHT WING NUT JOBS!!!

Well, at least when Republicans mouth off about getting rid of Obama in 4 years, it'll be the truth. Unfortunately for them, Hillary will Bitch slap them even harder than Obama ever thought of doing.

In a fact based universe, 100 plus electoral votes would seem like a mandate for Obama care, to even the most disinterested observer!!

Christian-3196489

KornFed:

There have been others like it. I give up. Talking to people like you is a waste of oxygen, and or the energy it takes me to type. You apparently have no brain to absorb facts. As they say, "Facts are not a conservatives best friend".

I'm not sure if you wanted me to be impressed by your resume, but I am not. I judge people on the substance of their argument. I wiped the floor with you. I gave other sources with the same news that you had mocked. Giving up would be a wise move, and save the remaining face you have left.

Enough ALREADY. Anyone who argues against helping domestic issues hasn't learned from history. The failures of the Romans, Greeks, Persians, Macedonians, Egyptians and all those I did not mention; erupted from the core. Taking care of home should be the number one priority. Period. If there is disagreement about its delivery, fine. But anyone who can be convinced that should not be our priority should take a moment and introspect. Our infrastructure- people, things(bridges, roads, schools, healthcare, civilty etc.) thoughts and idealogy have to take precedent. As our leader, like him or not, pointed out we do posess the right to argue. Let's simply argue to make this a better country not a worse country. If one isn't a part of the solution............ (I almost wish I didn't have to finish this), then they are a part of the problem.

Hey, Rich,

I imagine if Romney had been elected he would have replaced Obamacare with Romneycare since that was the health care plan he implemented in Massachusetts when he was Governor, and all the Republicans liked it.

Obamacare was modeled after it and is pretty much the same plan, only a few differences, one of those being that Romneycare requires that any business with 11 or more full-time employees offer health insurance to their workers or pay a penalty.

Obamacare requires only large businesses (over 50 full-time employees) to offer health insurance or face a penalty.

Oh gee ... I guess none of the GOP/TP bothered to mention that to their supporters. I wonder why?

Oh yes, I know ... because everybody might have thought it was a good idea and it would have worked, and President Obama would have gotten some credit for it.

The GOP/TP certainly could not let that happen!

RWNJs complaining about libs wanting hand-outs - BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. The red states are the states that are the ones on the take. Also, less education, more substance abuse, more inbreeding, etc, etc, etc. You guys are the butt-holes of this countrty

It doesn't really matter who the president is or which party has the most members in congress... the same people still control the government, the 1%. They give the orders and the politicians carry them out. Obama care is a cover for them to quit paying for health care for employees.

G.E. (the ones who have the $150 million tax credit) are going to eliminate health insurance for non- union employees and then when the union contract is up eliminate their insurance as well. Next the vacation time, sick days and paid holidays will go as well. Soon no employers will be offering any kind of benefits and minimal salaries...... They feel people who are poor and hopeless will be easier to control.

The problem is that we have GREEDY people running this country, who intend to use the 99%; the problem with their plan is that once they turn America into another third world country is that they will be eliminating their customers as well. In fact if they don't turn things around it won't be 47% needing some kind of government assistance...it will be 99%.

Hey Preceded,

I'm not sure what you mean by muddle in terms of the current system since what I just offered was a complete replacement to the entire thing. End, essentially, every economically illiberal law and regulation now in effect, allow the free market to work, put you in the position of controlling your own care with your own doctors how oyu see fit. It would also have the advantage of making everyone in the USA insurable while respecting their choice, if they make it, to go without insurance. One of those unwritten points would be a removal of all "must treat" laws.

Medicare and Medicaid, today, shift much of their costs on to private insureds. Both are overutilized and all too often corrupted with over billing or excessive treatments. We don't need even more regulations, with penalties, to stop this. We simply need to remove the governmentally installed regulations that caused it in the first place.

Private insurance often can't be purchased over state lines. This is economically illiberal. So long as a firm meets solvency requirements why should the government care where you buy your insurance? Liberty is the lodestone of American exceptionalism, and we have spent more than 70 years now in the health care field removing liberty from the individual and empowering the government. At every step the "system" has become worse, yet liberals think the solution is yet more government. Odd.

So the three goals of Obamacare are, in each case, not going to be realized. Universality, portability, and cost containment, are all laudable ideas, and none of them will be discovered in Obamacare. Cost containment will be possible, but only through rationing of some sort. Portability, because the vast majority of people won't own their own policy won't happen, but they could replace their policy. And universality was never a complete goal anyhow. Even Mr. Obama says millions will remain uninsured upon full implementation.

We have an incomprehensible law. This alone should be reason to reject it. It empowers government at the expense of the individual. It causes perverse economic consequences, like unplanned governmental tax revenue increases. I choose to support solutions which achieve the goals without the negative consequences and costs. I lost. You won. But did you really?

BTW, a reason for Romneycare in Massachussetts being designed as is (which isn't the same at all as Obamacare) is because of all the federal laws they had to work around. It still required waivers to be approved in order to get that law passed Had Romney been governor of, say, Kansas, I doubt the law would look anything like the one from Massachussetts.

Nice try but I was in the military and there were personnel cuts, early retirement and base closures under Reagan. He did try to modernize the military after the cuts of Carter, brought back the B-1 and star wars. But he definetly cut the military and at the same time defeated Russia without a shot fired. You really need to get your facts straight.

Irvmani: The fact most spending were on advanced systems and not the troops changes nothing. My point was Reagan spent massively on advanced weapons beyond any peacetime spending ever. Expanding the military budget 43% higher than it was at the height of Vietnam. He spent his way out of the recession. That's not an option today.

In 1980, the American electorate shooed in a leader with an eye toward
countering domestic social changes wrought by Civil
Rights and Affirmative Action programs and
military superiority and a new sense of political direction. Ronald Reagan was
inaugurated the 40th president of the United States in 1981.

Reagan's administration revived the B-1 bomber program, which had been canceled.

By the time Reagan stepped down from the helm, he had expanded the U.S.
military budget to a staggering 43% increase over the total expenditure during
the height of the Vietnam war. That meant the increase of tens of thousands of
troops, more weapons and equipment, not to mention a beefed-up intelligence
program.

"Star Wars"

One of Reagan's controversial proposals was the Strategic Defense Initiative
(SDI), a system intended to make the U.S. invulnerable to nuclear missile
attacks by the Soviet Union. By stationing those defenses in outer space, the
U.S. was able to circumvent the United Nation's Anti-Ballistic (ABM) Treaty.

by the Carter Administration, and began production of the MX Peacekeeper missile. Reagan's response to Soviet
deployment of the SS-20 missile was his approval of NATO's deployment of the Pershing II missile in West Germany, despite much protest.

KornFed:

Wait a second here... let me check... oh $hit, just like I thought. I have completely run out of f**ks to give. I could care less about what you think about me OR "my resume".

You and your backwards thinking is the exact reason I'm done with this board. You have no ability to analytically think. You're a partisan hack. Plain and simple.

I've tried watching Fox News on multiple occasions. Complete absolute drivel. The morons they have on for guests are pathetic idiots too. They lie so much they should all have noses long enough to reach the damn cameras. They distort facts and bend the truth so far it snaps.

You should do yourself a favor and fact check some of the crap they say. NOT TO MENTION, HANNITY, ORIELY AND BECK ARE NOT NEWS!!! They are entertainers that give their opinion about the news. Neither is Rachel Maddow or Ed Shultz. While they are much more honest, they are not news.

NPR and programs like that ACTUALLY give you THE FACTS and let you decide.

American Girl, a business does not have to hire full time employees. The only full time employees will likely be management. As it stands now Marshalls and Walmart have a small percentage of full time employees. One thing is for certain, SMALL Businesses employ a vast majority of Americans. Obama is not business savy or business friendly. You can be assured these people WILL be paying their own Health Insurance. 4 years is short. If Obamacare isn't working, and the people are getting hammered financially as expected, in 4 years you can guarantee a Republican coming in and wiping away much of this bill. Democrats thought they were getting free gas and mortgages with Obama. You think this is free? YOU WILL PAY!

I see not one wants to have an honest conversation about a law the legislators "passed to find out what is inside". Honestly, the legislators don't know the actual impact because the agencies have not added their rules yet. The Congress created new agencies and left the rule making up to them. So even when a local businessman asked insurance companies and the government what to expect in the new year they could not answer him. He has a property management business with about 150 employees in several states. In effect since he can't plan he is anticipating the company being bankrupted by the new law. How is that fair to the employees and the business owner? This is a classic example of letting legislators enact law without understanding the ramifications. it happens all the time and the cost in time and money is huge on the business owner.

I have operated small business for over 24 years and the legislators are directly responsible for the current economy and the collapse of the housing industry which I service.

Why do you progressives think it is unfair to expect full disclosure so a business can plan for the changes in law? Is it because most of you never had the responsibility of caring for employees and a company? All I hear is name calling and chest thumping when just like the legislators who voted for this you have no idea the consequences to American business. When will you wake up and ask real questions of your legislators? Ask why they exempted themselves from it if it is such a great deal?

I see many posts full of misinformation so far on this thread. Tucker123-The Cadillac plan tax (taxing healthcare benefits) does not take effect until 2018 and is only on plans where your employer is contributing more than $28,500/family. Not many people have that good of healthcare insurance through their company. Glen-1484791-Small business with less than 50 employees are exempted from having to provide healthcare.

I suggest that people do their research, not just on one site or news network, be it here on nbcnews or at Fox, before coming to your conclusions. I was able to find this information out within 5 minutes of searching. There are good things in the plan and there are bad things in the plan. Personally, I would rather have a healthcare bill in place, which can be amended and refined (and it needs to be) than try and pass one from scratch. One scenario is much easier than the other....

LogicReguired (sic) --

#1.81 has got to be one of the dumbest posts of all time. In your attempt to belittle another poster by making childish remarks about his/her age you say (I'm paraphrasing here because I don't want to scroll back up to your stupid statement): "When you were five years old...Moses was building a boat for some flood".

The flood story I believe you are referencing has nothing to do with Moses. It's Noah. As in Noah's Ark.

You can't get the simplest details of a children's story correct. You can't even spell your chosen name correctly.

Nothing you say should be taken seriously.

Hey, Rich,

Here's a short, easy-to-read, easy-to-understand link to explain how much Romneycare and Obamacare are alike.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brad-burd/obamacare-romneycare_b_1956075.html

You can thank me later.

Alice,

How about the threat to make business provide full medical to part time employees? No actual decision on that yet. So in essence the new normal is "gigs" and no real full time jobs. How is that a benefit to the employee, company and the country? This is just one of the problems in allowing the government to "mis-manage" 17% of our GDP. The actual truth is no one knows the impact yet...they are just making it up as they go along and that is a disaster in the making.

Hey Preceded,

I was doing some chores and it dawned on me what you meant. Sorry, I should've been clearer. I think you meant that the costs would be borne by the individuals in the same way as now, one paying more and so on. No, what we need is a system where plan costs, which are different for each participant, would be socialized so that no one with a preexisting condition, for instance, would be penalized. That is, if your yearly plan cost were, say, 10k, then your refundable tax credit would be 10k. But your adjusted tax payment for this would be higher or lower or the same depending on where you fall in terms of income. People with far higher incomes would pay far higher taxes despite getting a far lower credit. People with lower incomes would pay lower taxes despite a far higher credit.

Over time (like I said my list was incomplete) I'd transfer this to the states and pahse out the federal government entirely.

I am and always have been in favour of national health care programs. We are probably the last industrial nation to adopt one. Is this a program that smaller nations only are able to afford? Of course not. We pay for national health already .We do not allow our sick to die yet our hospitals and their medical staff do get payed.We can't win against the insurance cos. but they can be controlled by the government. We either pay with higher premiums or by all of us continuing to pay our fair share. The A.C.A. is now law and will be amended continually until it becomes one of if not the best Medical program on the planet. The conservatives will like it as well as the rest of us as they get used to it

Rich,

Are you aware of the many conflicts of interest that your most recent comment contains? I understand your use of illiberal to allude to the "typical" democratic position and its possible inability to be fiscally responsible per the "assumption." But, you state, and I quote "Private insurance often can't be purchased over state lines. This is economically illiberal. So long as a firm meets solvency requirements why should the government care where you buy your insurance?". You're arguing against your point. That being, Obama is taking an "illiberal" approach, or in exacting other words a conservative approach. This isn't logical. It's illogical. I won't go into a complete counter against the litany of other dichotomies. Your passion not withstanding, you've provided why this thinking is a failure in your opinion. Enlighten us with what will work.

Christian-3196489

KornFed:

Wait a second here... let me check... oh $hit, just like I thought. I have completely run out of f**ks to give. I could care less about what you think about me OR "my resume".

Yet you came back for another woopin?

You should do yourself a favor and fact check some of the crap they say. NOT TO MENTION, HANNITY, ORIELY AND BECK ARE NOT NEWS!!! They are entertainers that give their opinion about the news. Neither is Rachel Maddow or Ed Shultz. While they are much more honest, they are not news.

I do check it,,,I watch it! I watch some CNN, I obviously read NBC news. What are you trying to say? You mocked my source with regards to Clinton, Geightner and Holder, so I gave you some other sources. Then you go on to call me stupid...likely because you have no other argument to make, which is usually the case.

At least Boehner saw the light (if he's sincere) and realizes that it's time to cooperate or become marginalized. Now it someone would just smack that dolt Mitch McConnell upside the head!

I've tried watching Fox News on multiple occasions. Complete absolute drivel.

Oh, I don't know...it was pretty entertaining watching Karl Rove melt down on Election night!

Oy, all you chicken littles... I've got one word to say to you...

MASSACHUSETTS

yes, a State-wide version of this plan is in effect and has been since it was enacted by...

Drum roll Please...

Former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney... Which is funny, because none of those dire predictions that people have been blasting are true...

I live with the reality, and I have nothing to fear, because Massachusetts is already at 98% compliance. (By the last tally that I saw)

But you want to beat your chests of this and don your hair shirt, well who am I to stop you with the reality Check.

The 33 attempts to overturn health care reform have taken 80 hours, or two full weeks of work. The House costs $24 million a week to operate.

I wondered what that loud popping noise was earlier today.

It must have been Mr. Boehner "pulling his head out of his..." well, you get it.

@Laura-313822 you are right, my Son is an area supervisor for an IHOP franchise and just yesterday he was told by the owners that by Jan 1st 2013 everyone on the payroll should be part-time no more full time employees, because the owners won't pay medical insurance.

The Rich will never have PEACE...

You know Mr. Boehner is right "if you cant beat them join them"

What a bunch of whiners. Romney lost by a clear margin. It wasn't a conspiracy; it wasn't the Black Panthers; it wasn't liberal media bias and wasn't because everyone who voted for President Obama is stupid or crazy it is because we like him; agree with him and support him. Look beyond the Presidential election and see how many of your fellow Republican extreme right wing wackos around the country did. Perhaps it is time for you old white guys to realize that the world is changing. Geeze - Grow up and suck it up!

Look beyond the Presidential election and see how many of your fellow Republican extreme right wing wackos around the country did. Perhaps it is time for you old white guys to realize that the world is changing. Geeze - Grow up and suck it up!

The media has brainwashed you all by the millions. It is a shame really. Not anything to laugh at anymore.

You all need to stop arguing and spewing hate toward each other. You are (mostly) all right in many ways and have valid points. What we need to realize, as liberals/conservatives, elephants/donkeys, whatever polarizing names we choose, we are AMERICANS and we can make a better world together.

YES the Healthcare bill has many flaws, but HEALTHCARE FOR EVERYONE in some manner is important, some manner other than those who have none go to the er for free.

Can we figure this out together...? Yes, of course we can.

Why didn't we....? Because it was the self expressed decision of some to not work with the President last time because the goal was to make him a one term president.

now that that has failed, MAYBE we can get down to business and make a better healthcare program that works for EVERYONE.

....AND A WHOLE HELL OF A LOT ELSE TOO.

This is clearly the website of the 95%.

connor - the only business where health insurance costs don't matter is the one which they can charge whatever they want for their product or services. Only the most unique businesses can do that.

Toxic Chemist is correct. Places that used to hire full time workers now hire private contractors because the cost of hiring and maintaining a full-time formal employee is much more.

The other out is to make all positions part-time.

@Dandy416 he said;

10% unemployment under Reagan and he's the republican god.

7.9% following the worst economic collapse in 70 years and Obama isnt doing enough for jobs.

LOL you people are ridiculous

Take a look at the unemployment record since taking office in 2009. In January of 2009 it started at 7.8 and went up as high as 10.0. There a couple other websites that give slightly different numbers, actually, higher numbers. So by your 7.8% today and since it started at 7.8%, would you say he has done better, worse, or the same? Before you answer, understand that starting back in May of 2009 it stayed in the 9% plus until March 2011 at 8.9%, then right back up into the 9's until October 2011, where it was under and slowly has gone down to 7.8%, right where it started under Obama.

I am not complaining or am I pissed that Obama was re-elected. I am very scared. Yes, he took a job with that had lots and lots of problems but it has gotten worse; higher unemployment, higher gas prices, a country that has pretty much been divided, and not looking much better. And I really really hope it does.

google/bing: bureau of labor, unemployment rates 2008-2012

Welcome to the world of part-time jobs.

Sorry to burst your bubble but this was a problem long before Obamacare. It's also a way to skirt unemployment requirements in some places. Many companies hire exclusively through temp agencies and this started way before Obama.

Silverton, if all I did was focus on similarities I would agree they are identical. But there are significant differences, and that is why they aren't.

America, illiberal has noting to do with ideology, if that is your point. It has to do with denying, in this case, people of their economic liberty. Which, if I read my Federalist Papers correctly, is a major reason for the republic.

Lukas, why should business owners simply take their spanking? Why, in other words, was it okay for you to support forcing people and firms to heel to your command, but it is wrong for them to notice they aren't slaves and they can make other choices? So, some people wanted someone else to give them free stuff, and those being asked to do the giving are beginning to say no. And they are wrong? Isn't this backwards?

Lukas Hope

But before the ACA, they were able to get insurance. Now they have to buy their own insurance on less wages because to be part-time they must work a limited number of hours, usually less than 32 hours a week. What the employer is going to do is schedule that employee for only 25 - 28 so that if they need them to stay they can without having them trigger benefits.

So DB, we all become independent contractors or work for the man for minimum wage with no benefits. as ID's we can buy our own insurance at 1400/month for a family of 2 parents and one or more kids. Is that right? When our elected's get free bene's for life? really, people go to the er for freakin sinus infections and the hospital never gets paid because you can't bleed a stone. This country pays either way. Either everyone pays something or some pay nothing...unless you make it by choice but then those who choose no insurance can get turned away.

@LogicReguired

"Own a business do ya? I didn't think so."

I do, but I don't think you do or you're a lousy businessperson. You people talk a lot of BS like if you had everything figured out.

Selling lots and cheaper is always more profitable than selling less at a higher price. If you have good volume of sales, you can keep your prices low.

You only need to raise your prices when you don't have enough sales to cover expenses. A good clientele with money and the willingness to spend makes all the difference.

Let me start off by saying that I am not a republican or a democrat. I believe in small government, I believe in separation of church and state, I believe in separation of business and state, I believe a woman has a right to choose, I believe success should not be punished by higher taxes and regulations, I believe gays should be able to get married, I believe people should not be able to buy alcohol, tobacco and lottery tickets with welfare, I believe in the 1^st and 2^nd amendment, and if people want to smoke pot, I could care less. I have no political argument when it comes to the ACA. That being said, the ACA will increase unemployment, raise the cost of healthcare, and cripple our economy. Here are a few reasons why:

1. Rich people are not stupid- there is a great misconception in today’s society that wealthy people attained and maintained their wealth by “luck of birth” (e.g. they inherited money). This could not be farther from the truth. People get wealthy by their ability to make wise and calculated decisions. The implementation of this new law will create “new rules”
   which will affect how, where, and when the wealthy choose to invest their
   capital. To increase net income, a business can either decrease overhead or increase revenue. Under the ACA it is wiser to decrease labor costs by decreasing the number of employees, employ independent contractors, have part-time employees, or pay a penalty that is cheaper than the cost of employee health insurance. Undoubtedly this will increase unemployment. Additionally, the sharpest ACA tax increase in investment income is from dividends (15% to 43%) for people making more than $200,000. Traditionally stock paying dividends has been a relatively “safe” investment; many if not most energy and pharmaceutical companies pay dividends. Due to this new tax, you will see less capital invested into these companies. The net result being less capital invested into R&D and well even the uneducated can guess the rest.
2. Insurance companies win, Community hospitals loose (less access to care), and the cost of surgery increases- for anyone who thinks the ACA “stuck it to those big insurance fat-cats” WAKE UP! Yes, it is good that people with pre-existing conditions cannot be denied. However, for every sick person with a pre-existing condition, the insurance companies now have hundreds of healthy pts to overcompensate for the cost of each sick pt. Secondly, small Non-incorporated community hospitals that provide access to care in suburban and rural areas operate on small financial margins largely funded by medicare/caid. With the ACA, medicare/caid reimbursements will drop roughly 33% which translates to closures of many community hospitals. Without access to preventative or interventional care within a close geographical range, the cost of healthcare will increase by a medical problem that could have been easily amenable. Lastly, medical device tax… who do you think is going to eat that cost?

If you haven't figured it out yet... Fox news and the Right Wing media have been lying to you. Over the last 14 years the Republican Party has had the attitude of our way or the highway. They have been being led by a special interest group run by Grover Norquist.

Why do you think making a pledge to a special interest group has America's best interest in mind?

Haven't you wondered why you get so angry at the mention of
a Democrat?

You have been the victim of Coercive Persuasion.

To impose a set of usually political or religious beliefs on somebody by the use of various coercive methods of indoctrination, including destruction of the victim's prior beliefs condition somebody to behave differently or increasing slight beliefs or fears: to induce somebody to believe or do something, e.g. to buy a new product or vote a different way, especially by means of constant repetition or advertising.

The tactics that the right wing are using were perfected by the Soviet Union. If it is repeatedenough time's you will begin to repeat it as fact.

Here is how they do it... Have you ever heard the right media say "there was a study done" (but no reference to who did the study) "we heard several people say", "people have said", "Someone heard" and continually repeat
the same thing time and time again as fact even though it's not?

Here is an example "The liberal media has taken over". Here are the facts about the take over. I will use network TV as an example

100% owned by FOX

Phoenix- KSAZ-TV ++ 10 (10) and KUTP-45 (26)

Los Angeles-KTTV 11 (11) KCOP -13 (13) KTLA 5 (5)

Washington,D.C.-WTTG 5 (36), WDCA 20 (35)

Ocala - Gainesville,FLWOGX 51 (31)

Orlando -Dayton Beach WOFL 35 (22) WRBW 65 (41)

Tampa - St.Petersburg WTVT 13 (12)

Atlanta WAGA-TV 5 (27)

Chicago WFLD-TV 32 (31)

Gary, Indiana WPWR-TV 50 (51)

Baltimore WUTB 24 (41)

Boston WFXT 25(31)

Detroit WJBK-TV 2 (7)

Minneapolis -St. Paul KMSP-TV 9 (9) WFTC 29 (29)

Secaucus, New Jersey WWOR-TV 9 (38)

New York City WNYW 5 (44)

Philadelphia WTXF-TV 29 (42)

Memphis WHBQ-TV13 (13)

Austin, Texas KTBC-TV 7 (7)

Dallas - Fort Worth KDFW-TV 4 (35)KDFI-TV 27 (36)

Houston KRIV 26(26)KTXH 20 (19)

Partially owned by FOX and FOX affiliates

Birmingham - Tuscaloosa–Anniston WBRC-TV 6 (50)

San Francisco - Oakland-San Jose KBHK-TV (now KBCW) 44 (45)

Denver KDVR 31 (32)

Fort Collins, Colorado KFCT (KDVR) 22 (21)

Boston WCVB-TV 15 (20)

Kansas City, Missouri WDAF-TV 4 (34)

St. Louis KTVI 2 (43)

High Point - Greensboro-Winston-Salem, N.C. WGHP 8 (35)

Cleveland – Akron WJW-TV 8 (8)

Portland, Oregon KPTV 12 (12)

Dallas - Fort Worth KDAF 33 (32)

San Antonio KMOL-TV (now WOAI-TV) 4 (48)

Salt Lake City KSTU13 (28) KTVX 4 (40)

Milwaukee WITI-TV 6 (33)

As can see its quite a list all Owned by or partially owned
by 1 man Rupert Murdock. Here is just an example in California
we have 7 network TV stations 3 of them are wholly owned by FOX ; 13, 11 and 5.Thats 3 out of 7 check how many are owned in your city now remember that lots of these stations have sister stations that are not on the list but you can easily find out.

Now lets talk about radio. You now know who Bain Capital (Romney's Baby) is right? Did you know he still owns 51% of the company? This is called a controlling share.

Bain Capital owns Clear Channel which owns 866 radio
stations and Premiere Radio Networks, a national radio network that serves
nearly 5,800 radio station affiliates and has over 213 million weekly
listeners. Programs include the Rush Limbaugh Show, Glenn Beck and the Sean
Hannity Show.

That is a ton of radio stations all saying the same thing and all owned by 1 company. So as you can see Rush, Glen Beck, Hannity and many, many moreright wing talk show hosts are on the republican freindly pay roll.

All you doomsayers, please grasp some faith that this country will rebound. We have had a rough period of time and this too shall pass. Give this country a chance to regroup. AND Every last one of us needs some sort of healthcare and it is a shame that it is a for profit that allows those that don't have funds to be left out. How would you feel if it were you? Or your child?

@fonze1111

Would you provide a link to the source you pasted? Looks like a bias site.

We do know that many thousands of deaths are going to be avoided every year by the Healthcare Reform. It is something that needed reform badly in our country.

Will not be perfect because Obama had to subsidize Insurance companies (aka Socialism-for-Profit) thanks to G.O.P. and Democrat-Conservatives. His original proposal was "the public option" (Medicare for All). But it will keep on being modified with time.

The fabrication by Congress and lobbyist that this would've raised your prices is a fallacy. If you read a bit of History, you will see that Healthcare prices started to skyrocket when Medical Insurance took over after W.W.II, Before that, doctors had to keep prices low to compete with each other- like all other professionals. There was no "cash cow" to milk.

JC,

I thought you guys won, what happened???

My 90 year old grandparents won't have to shop for private health insurance, and my sister won't go broke because she happens to have Multiple Sclerosis.

I have faith, we will figure the rest out. This is NOT the end of the world. Deal with it people.

"obamacare" is not the law for me. i do not recognize the authority the federal goverment is using. no where in the US constitution does it give the power to force citizens to purchase a product or service nor can they compel a citizen to enter into contract. i will use the second amendment to defend my liberty from tyranny.

Is it hard to live in 1860? I mean with that tyrant Lincoln (Obama)seizing the government trampling your rights, the rights of the sovereign states and destroying the constitution. Most of you righties only time travel to the 1950s. You really stretched it out to hit 1860!

BTW make sure you send back those social security checks from the government you don't recognize. No driving on the Interstate highway system that the government you don't recognize built. No flying either because the government you don't recognize operates the air traffic control system. No Amtrak either. You don't want health insurance fine can the hospital wheel your @ss to the curb when you can't pay?

Devils Son,

Amen! And he will use his 2nd Amendment right to get his ass thrown in the federal clink, if he keeps that @!$%# up.

OK all you geniuses that learned about ObamaCare on Fox news, something they must have just some how inadvertently forgot to mention, is that small businesses with less than 50 employees are exempt of thehealth care responsibility portion of the law. And they probably also forgot the part were businesses with less than 25 people, who desired to give their employees health care, they can get subsidized up to 50% of the cost.

The fact is that the vast majority of small businesses can actually benefit by offering health care they aren't required to provide. It's like giving your employees a nice raise without giving them a raise. That is a nice perk to hand out and if it keeps your employees healthier, you benefit in that way too.

But I'm sure all you small business owners know this because what kind of business owner would be so stupid as to believe Fox news or some goofy chain email, instead of reading the law for themselves? Yeah nobody in business could possibly be that dumb right? These guys are the backbone of the economy, surely they know what they're doing????

The fact is that Obama Care is actually quite beneficial to the vast majority of small businesses. Now I'll admit the benefits aren't quite as good for those "small businesses", (by the Republican definition), that employ thousands of workers. Yeah, you probably weren't thinking those were "small businesses" but in fact there are more than a handful of very large employers, making hundreds of millions in profit, who are technically classified as small businesses. Republican pundits often neglect to mention this but have no problem including them in order to skew the numbers.

I am sure it is just an oversight that these "little" facts never get mentioned. Surely Fox and the pundits aren't trying to be deceptive, could they be? You'd think too that people so vehimently against it would have made the effort to read it too, because how could anybody in their right mind be so against something without really knowing what they were against?

Well, it's about time.

33 House votes and $50 million later, the GOP is finally admitting to reality?

Now that's a new day dawning!

lol, ok... so can one of the Democrats out there, please explain why 39 National Companies have announced layouts in the last 48 hours, and why ONLY Fox News and other conservative networks have the gonads to report it?

Seriously, days worth of arguments, and people just don't get it. CNN lies as much as Fox does... which is to say, technically, not at all, they just don't tell you news that doesn't fit with their agenda.

Otherwise, they could be sued, and if Fox News lied as much as some "sources" suggest, they would be paying more than the National Debt... not to mention the FCC would pull their license.

So..... give it up!

After all, CNN didn't say a word about the Obama support for a UN Resolution that makes countries accountable for any form of expression that is degradating towards others religions.... kind of funny how it actually was one the books prior to the release of the so-called anti-Muslim video. But make no mistake, within hours of Obama's re-election, he was getting congradulated by the head of the committee that started the UN Resolution....

... .

BTW... To those unaware, when you have a foster child, you do receive welfare benefits...

FOR THE KIDS ONLY!!! You don't get them for yourself, and every penny is accounted for. You should actually find out what it entails before whining about someone who is actually sticking their neck out to help others.

Larry Stauth Jr- why ONLY Fox News and other conservative networks have the gonads to report it?

Um, because Rupert Murdoch didn't want Obama to win, so he's trying to convince you that he knows more than the American people?

Oh, and FOX already won their lawsuit saying they can flat-out lie and distort the news any way they want.

You have far too much faith in the FCC for a conservative.

Steve Wilson & Jane Akre vs Fox Television Stations

The attorneys for Fox, owned by media baron Rupert Murdoch, argued the First Amendment gives broadcasters the right to lie or deliberately distort news reports on the public airwaves.

And they won! Guess what you're watching today?

To all of you wasting time trying to educate Kornfed, I'd just like to direct you to one of his posts from Monday:

Kornfed

For your future, your children's future, your old parent's future, and future disasters....DRILL BABY DRILL!!!

or this one from Tuesday:

Kornfed

A vote for Romney is a vote against media bias! Kick them both in the ass!

You're wasting your time. Kornfed is one of those GOP dinosaurs who is rushing hell-bent toward extinction. Let him go.

Republicans seem to believe the right to life is only for fetuses and ends at birth.

@lilirocks

I cut and pasted my post from Microsoft word because I don’t like typing in the small box provided by nbc news. Most of my sources for came from the unfettered ACA because I don’t like reading through the spin of main stream media.

I am very familiar with medical insurance, the increasing cost of healthcare, and difficulties with access to care. I operate in two different hospitals. One is a small level two trauma center and the other is a very large tertiary care center. In my opinion, the smaller hospital provides better care for my pts and at a lower cost. I can operate at any time I wish, the nurses take better care of my pts (since they are not in a union they get raises based on quality of care and can be fired if they do not meet acceptable standards), I can focus on my pts rather than on paper work and red tape, and my fellow physicians/ consulting services are faster and more motivated to attend to my pts since they are directly reimbursed rather than on a hospital salary. However, the smaller hospital has less access to endowments and has no government funding. With a 33% decrease in Medicare reimbursements there will be dark days ahead. I take my more complex cases to the larger hospital since there is a plethora of subspecialist to aid in the care of my pts. However, the ancillary staff is mediocre at best, the hospital is run by lawyers who can increase profits by institutionalized defensive medicine rather than decreasing overhead. The larger hospital will weather the storm just fine but it will not decrease the cost of healthcare at all.

Honestly if government stopped the lovefest they have going on with the insurance companies and trial lawyers we wouldn’t be in this situation. If insurance companies actually had to compete for pts and had to answer to the better business bureau for breach of contract, pts would not have to go bankrupt for healthcare. If trial lawyers had to play by the rules, tissues wouldn’t cost $20 a box to ensure that 1:400,000 pts wouldn’t have an allergic reaction to them.

For those of you worried that you won't be able to afford health insurance, or you're already paying thousands of dollars for coverage and can't afford more, the ACA will make it much cheaper for you to have coverage than what is available to you today.

Here is a good summary sheet of how the new program will work:

http://www.ncsl.org/portals/1/documents/health/hraca.pdf

Lack of information leads to fear of the unknown. But notice that for people with incomes at 133% of the federal poverty level (about $25k for a family of 3), your coverage can't cost more than 2% of your annual income.

That amount rises to 9.5% for those with 400% of federal poverty level, but that's still less than the $7k a year one poster above said he's paying for his family's coverage today.

And those under 133% of the poverty level will get Medicaid.

The GOP has tried every scare tactic in the book for the last couple of years, but the reality is a big improvement over our current system. Read up, or wait and see.

Pardon me fellow winners for what is right with America, do we still even care what the pubes think? Clearly, they cannot even count so what could they possibly have to say that even makes any sense? Honestly, they are like 2 year old children. Let's just feed 'em, change their diapers and send them off back to dreamland. You know, their little fantasy world where Robme won!

On a more serious note, in the future the pubes will put forth any and all hispanic pubes, such as Rubio, in order to try to make it appear that they've learned the lesson of inclusiveness. Don't be fooled! If it looks like a hyena, acts like a hyena, howls like a hyena and has hyenas in their body politic chances are they're pube-hyenas!

Citizens,

And corporations. They believe that corporations have a right to life too.

Indie, part of your dilemma you mentioned on how to fund the program with mostly older, sicker people opting in and many young healthy people opting out and paying the fine will be solved by the penalties; they will help make up the difference for the young healthy people opting out. However, sad to say, many young people will find out how bad their decision to opt out was when some unforeseen health condition or accident occurs and leaves them with tens of thousands of dollars in medical debt, and because they are young and relatively healthy they will find their wages garnished to pay their medical debts--happens all the time now, and will probably increase in the future.

Yeah, I'd like to hear from all you fools touting this great Bozobama program when YOU or YOUR family are denied care because of government rationing of care or when they die waiting to be treated because the indigent or lazy non-workers have taken up all available slots for the limited care that's available. Then come back to this forum and tell us how you love government-run health care. Looked at Europe lately, fools?

Been to Canada lately?

I have. The healthcare is great.

Can you even imagine what it's like to walk into a doctor's office, show your card, talk about your medical problem and then go home and NEVER deal with an insurance company or paperwork?

Do you know how much money all the insurance processing costs this country? That's money out of your wallet - every year.

First and foremost: Congratulations, President Obama, for a hard-won and well-deserved victory!

Second of all, you republicans seem not to have learned this one simple lesson from Romney's defeat: Fearmongering doesn't work. You have this huge fear of the unknown and would like to make everyone else just as fearful as you are. Stop trying to drag everyone down to your level. It's time to face your fears, guys. The ACA is the law of the land. And, I think you will discover that reality isn't nearly so scary as your imagined fears. In just a few years, everyone will wonder what the big deal was and how we ever lived without the ACA.

We still live in the most bountiful land on Earth. This land is your land, this land is our land. From the redwood forests to the Gulf stream waters. Tax havens and Wall Street has done nothing to change that. This country belongs to all of of us. The day we surrender all of that bounty to a group of Wall Street whores is the day that America dies.

We have never done that and we never will. That's why Romney and his great super-pacs were turned away. President Obama may have not been the best choice, but he was the only other choice. That's why we will hold his feet to the fire as well as the determined obstructionists to assure his failure. All will work hard to return America to her place in leading the free world in success or we fire all of you in 2014. Take notice Boner, Cantor and Ryan. Your asses are on the line along with Obama. Do your jobs or go home. We're sick of your obstinance and stubborn laziness.

Welcome to the world of part time jobs? Where the hell have you all been the last thirty years? What do you think is helping to keep the poor,poor? Super market chains such as Food City,fast food chains, Wal Mart and others such as them hire people to work but will not let them get forty hours per week. That way they will always be considered part time workers and they don't have to pay in for them. They usually let people have twenty two to twenty eight hours a week and some will even go thirty eight but theu never let anybody have forty. Damn bunch of crooks.

Larry Stauth Jrvia Facebook

After all, CNN didn't say a word about the Obama support for a UN Resolution that makes countries accountable for any form of expression that is degradating towards others religions....

Only a right wing nut would look at religious tolerance as a detriment. Kudos for not disappointing my low expectations.

How much did Jesus charge for his healing services? And these right-wingers actually think they follow Jesus? They most definitely don't. They worship Moloch and Mammon. Never has the world seen a more materialistic greedy and self-centered group of people as this current incarnation of right-wingers. They'd toss the poor and elderly on a huge pyre to Moloch if it meant they were more likely to receive that nice 60" flat screen monitor they've been eying these past few months.

Logic Required: While your posts on here are certainly entertaining to read, its a bit difficult to get past your overall arrogance and apparent disdain for everyone you are talking to. You come across as if you believe everyone else on here is completely stupid - something you've said on here multiple times, where as you know all.

A word of advice, you might tone that down and actually listen to others as it will help widen your own view.

As a business owner and lifelong entrepreneur, I can assure you that your logic is simplified to the point of being flawed. In reality, the cost of doing business fluctuates on a regular basis. Fuel goes up, taxes vary, vendors change prices, sales go up and down, etc. As a responsible business owner, you take those things into consideration and adjust your pricing as needed. Its called the marketplace. And just because the cost of doing business goes up, doesn't mean you fire your employees. You make it work or you lose the value they added to your company, which is what makes money. If they weren't that valuable to begin with, then you were better off firing them either way.

I have been asking this question all along. What is going to be done about this?

Perhaps you can ask the Heritage Foundation what will be done about that. You know, that conservative think-tank that created this health care plan.

Or maybe you can ask Bob Dole, seeing as how he pushed this exact same plan as an alternative to Hillary-care.

Romney might even know the answer, because he implemented the exact same law before Obama.

Honestly, I am surprised a conservative like you has to ask these questions, seeing as how your own political party created this thing in the first place. They have been pushing it for over 20 years, where have you been?

Just don't ask the Democrats who voted it in since they didn't bother reading it. In answer to the "What would Romney do differently - give it back to the states to taylor and implement to fit the citizens of each state.

Venture capitalists and tax loopholes for outsourcing have stolen more US jobs than the Affordable Healthcare Act ever will.

so the socialized healthcare works so well in europe and else where that all the countries are going broke can you say greece,uk, one good point is now people won't have a reason to come here for top health care since it's no better than whats in there country one bad point is more bussinesses will be locating else where to avoid added cost

Boehner has already taken back his statement!

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaa, And you people believed him?

People actually are dumber than they look.

The only way to silence radical extremists is to vote them out of office!

How can be believe a confirmed liar?

I AM FED UP WITH IGNORANCE AND STUPIDITY! GOODBYE RIGHT WING NUT JOBS!!!

Welcome to more spending with more Government jobs, that is the only way Obama create jobs and cook numbers is the best way to reduce unemployment. Spend, spend, more debt, more debt, more debt.

The only way to silence radical extremists is to vote them out of office!

How can be believe a confirmed liar?

Agree DV, how we can elect the same people for 4 more years.

Sarah-3043284

Citizens,

And corporations Government. They believe that Governmemt corporations have a right to life lie too.

it's time to move on. if the Obamacare is the law of the Land so be it. many people will benefit from it others won't. It's time to work together and work for the people not for a political party.

Republican Governors fear getting voted out of office if they turn down the affordable health care act, don't play with the law or Else ??????????????

A while back, I had a discussion with a 50 year old who hates President Obama and the Health Care Reform act, along with hatred of all progressive ideas. This fellow said “no way is hell would he let anyone force him to buy health insurance. “ So, my question to him was if he had a major accident or illness, that lets say cost $100,000 or more, what would he do? His answer, “go to the ER.”

Of course with additional questions of how he would you pay for this, his answer was to pay $20.00 a month. Of course my response was $20.00 a month was not going to satisfy the hospital or ever going to pay the bill. I went on to point out that such as a plan of action on his part flies in the face of what his far right friends believe in, and that he would be considered one of the dead beats he and his far right friends accuse the progressives of doing.

The ACA is good for America. I know the tea baggers don't like it, because they would then have to stop getting medical care for free off of the tax payer dime.

So, we can say any adult who doesn't want health care insurance is not only a fool, and leach, but is pretty darn stupid.

American Girl-724855

That is a silly statement. For starters, the government cannot tell an employer how to structure it’s workforce. If they choose to go to part time jobs that don’t carry health insurance, there is very little obama can do about it and the company’s income is irrelevant. Secondly, if obama is fool enough to try to force coverage for part time workers, companies will simply switch gears and learn how to do more with less employees and shed jobs which is what many have already begun to do and again, there is nothing obama can do about that. They can’t tell an employer how big their workforce must be nor should they be able to.

And, just in case your employer hasn’t told you yet, the majority will shift employees to high-deductible health plans (HDHP) (any where from $1,500 – 10,000 deductible before benefits kick in, 80/20 or more split after) by 2018 as those are the only ones that won’t be subject to the Cadillac tax of 40%. PPOs and HMOs, etc. all have price tags that hit the tax ceiling. And before you go blaming the employers, this is exactly what obama and the dems were looking to accomplish. Many companies were already looking at moving staff over because healthcare costs were impacting the bottom line, but they were maintaining some PPOs for their lower income employees. HDHPs will work well for those in the upper income levels because they will be able to contribute to the health savings accounts and have the money there when they need it. Not so much for the lower income individuals who will have to choose between medical care and basic necessities such as food, shelter, etc. Studies conducted over the last 10 years show that most individuals on HDHPs will delay obtaining healthcare because they don’t have the money to pay, they will not fill prescriptions for the same reasons, and they many will have to do the same with regard to their children. Yes, obama is trying to make it where there will be assistance for the lower groups however that will be impacted by States that do not expand medicaid rolls and there are many of us who have enough self worth to never want to be on handouts.

Oh yeah, and you need to ask your representatives about the new and increased taxes they forgot to tell you about that will hit EVERY single American. Taxes on the sale of a home (3. Something %), increased social security tax, etc. Nothing is ever free.

Republicans seem to believe the right to life is only for the extremely wealthy who can afford the world-record inflated healthcare of the USA, corporations who they seem to believe are the only "citizens!!!" who have the right to survive, and fetuses and ends at birth for everyone else. (Very good point, Sarah!)

KraussK, the number of uninsured and of those unable to pay for healthcare in the USA is rapidly growing everyday and has been for many, many years, from before Obama was even born, in fact, and is rapidly growing higher. The unpaid bills of the very ill and/or injured uninsured and bankrupt people are inflating the costs more and more. As long as there is not some strong intervention to counter and control this serious problem it will continue and continue to add to the horribly inflated, world-record cost of US healthcare to where more and more people will be unable to afford healthcare including the elderly as any form of Medicare will become impossible to implement. Among the many terrible results of extremely expensive healthcare is that when many people get sick or have an injury they find themselves literally broke with an enormous medical debt and their wages garnished when they return to work. If this horrible trend continues most people (including the elderly) will eventually not be able to access healthcare in any way at all, or if they can, when they get very sick or injured they will find themselves broke and essentially an indentured servant to the healthcare providers. The healthcare problem is a very complicated one because of the nature of the beast, but one of the many problems with funding adequate healthcare is the fact that sick, severely handicapped and/or injured people are just not productive in the workplace and often unable to work in any capacity at all and thus the need for assistance from everyone for everyone else with funding for healthcare. Do not forget, we are all human and we all will die. We all have a 100% risk of getting old, sick or injured or handicapped and we do not know how long the undesirable states of severe illnesses or injury will last. At least with the ACA nearly all people can get some basic healthcare, preventative care and relief for pain and suffering of chronic or severe illnesses instead of no access to healthcare without becoming bankrupt by it and/or essentially an indentured servant for the healthcare providers for much of their lives, as is now the practice. What now needs to happen is for everyone in government in Washington to earnestly and productively work together and correct the bad/negative parts of the ACA and improve upon it as much as possible so it NOT will bankrupt the country as a whole but can provide basic healthcare and preventative care for all.

Oskar, politicians have been lying since time began to get elected and to get power. Even 50 years ago polls and studies revealed Americans viewed politicians as the most dishonest of 20 different general occupations. While the most common form of political dishonesty is making false and rosy promises they cannot possibly keep, the worst form of lying is by deception, in trying to make the majority believe they will be better off with bad policies that will obviously hurt the majority and greatly benefit a favored few at the expense of everyone else, and the Republicans have been extremely guilty of this much more than the Democrats, especially recently.

And Oskar, do not forget the facts, most of the biggest layoffs in the last 4 years have actually been with government jobs. I know some of those laid off people.

So good bye Oskar. The best sand to bury your head in probably lies in the Middle East somewhere where the Rebublicans recently spent a trillion dollars for regime change for a country with policies "not friendly to US vital interests" in an unnecessary war under false pretenses.

TO: Kornfed who wrote:

[Being that NONE of those people work for you [Eric Holder and Hillary Clinton], how would you know who is and is not going to be working for the President of the United States?]

I watch Fox news.

Bwaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaahahahahaha!!!

Pretty funny watching you liberal @!$%#s laugh at the right and call them stupid.

Dunno about you but I'm watching the fallout of you voting obama back in.... as the layoffs roll down the line.

Let's see, the next layoff will happen during tax increases next year, then the new EPA mandates.

It's all on you guys! Guess you can't blame Bush for your vote. Congrats on removing all of these citizens from jobs!

"Obamacare is the law of the land"

so is

Roe v. Wade

but that does not stop the teabomination party from trying to legislate it into irrelevancy.

Gotta keep an eye on Boehner et al, big time.

And for all those whiners about job loss - why not eliminate the middle-man insurance companies and go to

SINGLE PAYER, so everyone is insured, and costs go down for the whole system, period.....

Geesh.

What have Republicans got against having healthy citizens? Even Jesus healed the sick for free.

Besides, isn't it logical that any employer wants healthy employees? Healthy employees are more productive, and have less absentism due to being ill.

What's the problem here? Why are you against having healthcare for your fellow citizens? Congress has great healthcare--why not the rest of us?

Dear Maxwell

You do not understand the situation.

Do your homework. And don't vote until you do.

Socialized dentistry = English teeth = yuck.

Socialized medicine = Denmark taxes = Swedish taxes.

Holland = euthanasia.

Get it?