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J. Scott Applewhite / AP
Speaker of the House John Boehner, R-Ohio, finishes a prepared statement to reporters about the elections and the unfinished business of Congress, at the Capitol in Washington, Wednesday, Nov. 7, 2012.
House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, emerged in the aftermath of Tuesday’s presidential election to strike a conciliatory note, offering to work with President Barack Obama on a grand bargain to avert the impact of the coming fiscal cliff.
The top House Republican argued for new negotiations with Democrats and the newly re-elected Obama administration on an overarching fiscal deal linking together reforms to entitlements and the tax code.
Boehner said that Republicans would be “willing to accept new revenue, under the right conditions,” though those very conditions could be as beguiling as ever.
The speaker offered no clue as to whether Republicans would relent from their insistence (made during fiscal negotiations last year) that any sort of tax reform package not constitute anything even remotely resembling a tax hike.
Obama has spoken favorably about tax reform – including during his victory speech last night in Chicago – but in such a way that wealthier Americans would face the increased tax burden.
The so-called fiscal cliff, a combination of tax hikes and spending cuts, could act as a brake on the economy in 2013 and now eight senators from both parties are trying to find a solution. NBC's Andrea Mitchell reports.
Resolving that very open question could prove the key to resolving – or exacerbating – the fiscal impasse that has plagued Washington for the better part of the last two years.
Romney never overcame bailout opposition
“Shoring up entitlements and reforming the tax code – closing special interest loopholes and deductions, and moving to a fairer, simpler system – will bring jobs home and result in a stronger, healthier economy,” Boehner said during a Wednesday afternoon statement on Capitol Hill.
By the same token, the speaker suggested that a deal was untenable during the coming lame-duck Congress, calling for a “down payment” on fiscal reform that would give both parties ample space to negotiate in early 2013.
Full national election results
Boehner’s words reflected the immediacy of the challenge before lawmakers in the coming weeks if they are to successfully avoid the “fiscal cliff,” the nickname for the automatic tax hikes and spending cuts set to spring into place at the beginning of next year.
Economists have warned that this combination, the byproduct of legislative gridlock on issues of tax and spending during the last two years, would imperil the economic recovery in the U.S.
The election on Tuesday maintained Republican control of the House, Democratic control of the Senate and, Obama’s control of the White House – the same basic makeup of government that produced gridlock on fiscal issues for the past two years.
The White House said Wednesday that Obama, just hours after securing re-election, phoned leaders of both parties in the House and the Senate. During those call, the president “reiterated his commitment to finding bipartisan solutions to: reduce our deficit in a balanced way, cut taxes for middle class families and small businesses and create jobs.”
But as Boehner called for more time to address the looming fiscal crisis, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid suggested he was disinclined to extend the timeline for reaching a deal.
“I’m not for kicking the can down the road. I think we’ve done that far too much,” he said at a press conference on Capitol Hill. “Waiting for a month, six weeks, six months – that’s not going to solve the problem. We know what needs to be done, so I think we should just roll up our sleeves and get it done.”
First Thoughts: Obama's demographic edge
The dueling statements, though, set the parameters for fiscal talks that are set to dominate political discourse in the coming months.
The fight plays out amid election results that, as Vice President Joe Biden asserted on Wednesday, provided the administration with a “clear sort of mandate about people coming much closer to our view about how to deal with tax policy.”
Almost two-thirds of voters, according to national exit polls, said “no” when asked whether taxes should be raised to help cut the budget deficit. But 47 percent of voters, a plurality, said that taxes should increase only on those earning more than $250,000 – a centerpiece of Obama’s re-election campaign on which Obama stumped this fall.
Barring any action by Congress, tax rates would spring upward for all income brackets as the 2001 Bush-era tax cuts, which were extended for two years in 2009, expired.
The spending “sequester,” established by Congress during the 2011 debt ceiling deal as an incentive for lawmakers to reach a compromise budgetary solution, is also set to take effect at the beginning of next year absent an agreement by Congress. Republicans have grown especially worrisome about the sequester because of the heavy cuts it would make to the defense budget.
As the business of legislating resumes, a key actor in the process could be Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan, the former Republican vice presidential nominee who lost Tuesday as Mitt Romney’s running mate. Ryan simultaneously won re-election to Congress, and said Wednesday in a statement that he intends to resume his post as chairman of the House Budget Committee.
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We should be grateful the Weeper of the House appeared to at least be sober for the moment!
About time he recognizes a mandate when he sees one!
Roll up your sleeves and GET to WORK Mr. Speaker, you've been off since July!
he he he...you said boner, er boehner. come on. republicans are still feeling the hurt from last night. they will not reach across the isle. they want our country to go over the cliff because they think it makes their party stronger.
It's got to smart a little that they waited till the Ohio electoriate would give President Obama his re-election.
November 6th, 2012 was a GREAT DAY FOR DEMOCRACY!
THE SOLUTION: Ask Romney what HIS secret plan was and ask him to share that for the good of the country.
The Party of No is finally realizing that the Modern World has passed it by (and possibly much of the pre-Modern world).
If only they had been listening to the rest of us for the past 30 years.
MANDATE??? Are you as blind as you are dumb? The marrket is down 313 points, headlines say Obama won but not on his policies, and you're putting on your cheerleader outfit again. You wnated him, you got him. I hope mom's basement is real comfortable. I'm fairly sure you don't have a job now and it will be years before you get one. Oh wait! There is always that welfare check.
I wouldn't be so sure about that one. I don't think the house republicans are going to be very compromising. You have to realize from how far right they are beginning and how close to the middle Obama is already. At least they are beginning to realize that they do need to compromise, but I think it is still going to be very ugly.
I must say, I like Boehner and Mitch McConnell's tone much better since President Obama won re-election.
If Boehner and McConnell had been this way before, instead of trying to overturn a presidential election (2008), this country would have been much further ahead.
The People have spoken Republicans!
Congratulations President Obama!
End the Bush tax cuts for everyone and restore the payroll tax. And that's just Step One.
Give a dog a Boehner
From the article above:
Wow. I totally forgot about Congressman Boehner.
Seems like he's been on break for about 8 months.
I think the Congressman is off to a good start.
He is up for re-election I think in 2014 and his state just won the election for a Democrat President, so I really hope this time he means it.
Has anyone seen Mitch McConnell?
LMAO!!!!
Salud
Yeah! You heard correctly!
The President WON both the popular & electoral votes, we gained seats in the Senate & House & all the exit polling indicates Americans want to raise the taxes on the wealthy.
What would you call it other than a good old fashion ass-whooping?
Either get on board or get out of the way...
So now that Mitch McConnell was a failure at making Obama a 1 term President will they finally grow up and start to represent the people's mandate to heal this country?
I for one hope he means it and that he can get the rest of his folks in step with him... but I do wonder what Grover will have to say when he finds out about this... "reaching across the isles" to make a deal...
TO: NC1234 who wrote:
We know the secret already: Romney was going to go in and be the puppet Grover Nordquist wanted and just sign whatever was put in front of him, which is one reason why he lost.
Romney's "secret plan" was to go off to foreign lands and have dinner with the presidents and kings of other countries.
I also read that Romney wanted to make himself the head negotiator of all foreign trade deals, and that means he really could have continued to ship American Jobs overseas and very easily from the oval office.
Forward !
Doom and gloom? Why?
Raise taxes on the ""job creators and give them an out. Hire Americans get a tax credit, include stock options get a tax credit, offer insurance tax credit offer even better insurance better tax credit, the more people working the smaller the safety net becomes the larger the tax pool.
One thing I have learned through hard Knox is when the people around me do good the economy does great.
“The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.”
Mitch McConnell is the new Homer Simpson.
D'oh!
Paul, really now, do you really think only democrats don't have or even want jobs? Do you really think the unemployment rates among republicans is only 4.5% ( the rate most say is full employment because at any given time people are moving and changing careers)? It looks like about 2.5 million more voted for the president. It is looking like he got 332 electoral votes. It looks like the senate picked up seats and turned back at least one teapartier. It is time for both sides to work together and that doesn't mean anyone is going to get 100% of what they want, no way no how. There IS a mandate that says we want both sides to work together so give up the hatred and encourage your party to work for the betterment of 100%. I can only hope that Reid will finally change and redefine the filibuster rules.
A mandate indicates a significant voter agreement. Obama did not get one no matter how much you claim it to be so. Try taking a statistics class. And because there is no overwhelming mandate, the crap will continue on BOTH sides.
Redhead....what mandate?
I agree with lulu. There was no mandate. Things barely changed at all and almost half the country didn't vote for Obama, but I guess no one cares about the real numbers.
The word is spelled "market" and I suspect that it is you who is dumb. Do you really believe that the market would be any different if Romney had won? The election of either of them spells uncertainty for the future--particularly the looming "fiscal cliff". Plus, whatever is happening elsewhere in the world at any given moment affects our stock market.
The market isn't down 313 points because of the election of Obama. In fact, the market has seen HUGE gains during Obama's 4-year tenure. Haven't you been paying attention?
Oh, I guess I shouldn't have asked that last question. You're not interested in facts. You just want to follow your own blind path. Whatever makes you feel good. . . .
We finally get finished with clueless Mitt and now we get clueless Boehner?
Good Lord!
THE Boner "offers tax talks" with Prez O. Is The Boner to be trusted???????????? LetPhantomBeast Pose this question: Since trust is needed here, Would You Do A BENDOVER Deal with The Boner?????
Glad to see the republicans are still the puppets of Grover Norquist ,remember republicans two more years there is another election!
It is about time Boehner got to work, he practically been on vacation for the past 4 years. Although I shall give him some credit----he has "SAID NO" possibly more times than any other human being on earth has ever said--including 2 year olds.
Maybe he was going for the Guiness World Record on how to fail the people you represent by simply and repetively saying NO!
I am going to go out on a limb here and give Boehner the benefit of the doubt. We really do need these guys(on both sides) to put their male ego pride aside. The time has come and gone and the president is not going anywhere. Listen up! We the people want results! We do not expect to hear ANY group of leaders behind closed doors in secret meetings planning to collectively say NO to anything and everything. That has proven to be detrimental to this country, and I daresay to one party in particular.
Now, Are we Fired up?! Ready to Go?!
lulu98... you may not agree with it, but the fact remains he did get re-elected, and his mandate was that he did win the popular vote and the electoral college... and had to wade through four years of bulls%it just to get that. And even if he had received what you want to call a mandate... would you even recognize it... probably not, they never honored his FIRST mandate, so please give me a break and quit your whining.
Bone head is just talking the same talk, I say let the Bush tax expire, reform the tax loop holes, cut defense spending in a way it will not hurt us, bring all our troops home, and I realize we have to do something about the big 3, but I say wait until we see how Obamacare gets settle in, because right now too many people are depending on those 3, and the welfare of our people should come first. try and pass the Jobs Act bill and get our infrastructure fixed, and then we will see jobs come back.
Boehner ran unopposed for his House seat this year. That was the big mistake the Democratic party made. They should have poured lots of money into finding a good candidate to run against him. But then again I think the GOP gerrymandering redistricting might have made it almost impossible to find the right person to run. Maybe the Dem who had to run against Marcy in Toledo should have moved into Boehner's district and run against him with boatloads of money from the Dem party. We can only hope that they wise up and find someone for 2014...if Cantor doesn't try to take his job as Speaker before then.
anti-trust proponent... why, so Cantor could be Speaker... we're trying to break the gridlock, not fluff egos and pompadours.
So Ryan gets to run for vice pres and for congress at the same time? how the fuuk does that work? maybe he could be vice congressman?
Paul-401431
Good Greif,
Somebody didn’t get the memo.
A Troll already spewing the “Stock market is down” BS.
Paul, you remind me of a chiguagua that’s been inside all day and has to pee. You open the door and ZOOM off it goes yapping and peeing with no rhyme or reason.
I think you are a prime candidate for our new Democrat President Electoral Landslide Mandate un-official policy of “Let’s Put the worthless Idiot Troll on Ignore”
Congrats, Paul You just showed everybody here that YOU are the problem.
Salud
Jack of Portsmouth,
Today is a "buy"opportunity in the market. Its time for both side to cut a deal or just let the chips fall where they may. Obama has nothing to loose anymore. The other guys have something to loose. You can already hear the death rattle of the Republican Party. They better start doing something productive or in 2014 they will loose control of the House. If they are smart, they will seize on Simpson-Bowels, recast it a bit, rebrand it, and make it their own...if they are smart.
American Girl................Oh!..............I was hoping he REALLY had a plan and wasn't just lying...........Againnnnnnnnnnnn.
82. You still do not understand the definition of mandate. Nor do you have a clue about me. I voted for Obama first time hoping that his promises would be kept. He did not prioritize the countries problems which should have been jobs and the economy. Instead we get healthcare reform and tons of regs all of which may be basically good but brought on at the wrong time. Shows lack of management skills. So, this time I did vote for the other guy. I am one of those Independents who is socially liberal and fiscally conservative. Also, unless a person agrees with everything you say, he is a whiner. Seems to me, that description is all yours.
Paul 401431,
Bitter? Table for one?
Haven't seen much of you right wing nut jobs on here lately.
Suicide hotline must be on meltdown.
GOP tears are so sweet! I have steaks marinating in them and just finished polishing my gun with them ;) And tonight, we fire up the hot tub filled with GOP tears and sprinkle in a little tea party champagne!
Is there anything about Boehner that ISN'T vague - except for the tan, of course!
"We should be grateful the Weeper of the House appeared to at least be sober for the moment!" LMAO Feisty, do you write for television?
The exit polls showed that 63% of American's are against raising taxes. But who cares about truth when it doesn't fit with the plan.
Hi AG @1.19 - I agree that neither party has a mandate to do only as they wish without compromise, but the (electoral) results of the national election were impressive. Put Mitch McConnell or John Boehner in a National Election and see if they survive! They must be find a way to pass needed legislation that the President will sign - or else they'll remain the worst do-nothing Congress in history...at a time when we really need to get some things done.
Instead of putting people on Congressional Science committee's who don't believe in Science, maybe the Republicans will begin to push for intelligence now. Instead of anti-abortion legislation, maybe we can get some action on infrastructure and jobs.
Romnesia strikes again, in 2000 G W Bush claimed a Mandate after LOSING the popular vote by 543,816 votes. All you RWNJs thought that was wonderful. Obama wins by almost 3 Million votes and that's not a mandate. Now I understand why the rightwing has so much trouble with math.
Everytime I see him all I think is disgraceful, disrespectful dog!!
Fiesty is using Mandate like the Republicans did, when Reagan one. They didn't have one then, and the Democrats don't have one now, but it's still a "republican" mandate. It mean when the people of America speak out and shut down the opposition, which is just what happened.
Here is how the talks go. President your in the 1% remember you make a lot of money, you want your kids to suffer. They won't be middle class when they grow up. We put on the show now lets get down ot business. How do you keep face and stick it to the very people who put you in office, you've been doing a good job so far now we raise tax's on the middle class again and which one of your other programs do you want since we lost the Health Care fight and you know it's going to cost us Billions you want the money for that OK.
I will be curious to see how the Party of Divine Rape reinvents itself.
That man is a HUGE problem! I do lean toward libertarian (which he claims to be) but I understand the word COMPROMISE.
I just thought I would pop in and See how the Sore winners are doing.
Its amazing that Obama won and yet the first thing they do is start insulting the people they need to work with on a Bi-partisan basis.
Curious isn't it that the Left Ignores the fact that if the People truly believed it was the Republican controlled Houses fault for all the Gridlock in Washington then why is it they still control the House and basically the power balance is exactly the same as it was before Nov 6th?
I guess they keep forgetting that the Republican House has passed budgets for the last three years while the Democrats have failed to pass a budget in four years and Its Reid that pocket Vetoed 55 House passed bills in the last two years.
Maybe the Dems need to realize that "My way or the Highway" only works when you have the Senate House of Reps and the White House like they did in 2009 and 2010.
I'm really glad that Obama Got reelected. Maybe after four years of on the Job training He'll be able to get both parties to work together. Then again if the next four years are the same as the Last four years...
Yes We Can! Have four More years of Gridlock.
He aint gonna start cryin again is he momma? Please don't let that man cry! He looks soooo stupid when he crys
In the 2004 Election GWB won over Kerry 286 to 251 and he went on to say;
So, YES. I would say President Obama won a MANDATE in a LANDSLIDE victory with 332 Electoral Votes to 206 Electoral Votes.
You don't like it, you can all go call a whambulance!!!
Salud
Democrats and Republicans alike: This is not a time to gloat, nor is it time to make some assertion about what last nights election meant. This is a time for serious business, the task of ensuring that the economic recovery continues while working towards paying down our debt.
Before Republicans and Democrats start talking mandate, let's remember that there have been other elections, won by slimmer margins in the past, where a 'mandate' was assumed. Right or wrong, it matters not. We're all in this together, and we will all sink, or rise depending on our ability to simply come to terms with this election, and the divisiveness of the last several election cycles.
Clearly, we cannot bring the debt under control without making fundamental changes to the tax code, tax rates, and stimulating job creation. It cannot be done. Please shed your quarrels and at least agree on that. We also need to continue to improve (not strike down) AHCA. It's absolutely not perfect, however, it is a start, and it has gotten people talking and thinking about healthcare in much greater urgency than before that legislation was passed. Resetting to square one, is a waste of taxpayer time, and money. Improving upon what is already law (and won't be repealed) is the only option. Fighting over it, is simply going to draw the focus away from what is important.
I realize emotions are still quite high right now, Democrats elated, Republicans disenfranchised. However, those emotions will come back to earth in the coming months when we realize that the President's speech last night, was every bit as true as it was when he originally took office. Climbing out of this mess will take time, and effort, from everyone. It's not going to happen overnight, and even then, it will move at the pace that the structure of our Government will allow.
I would ask this to the Republican's who are 100% against bringing taxes back to the levels of the Clinton years. Was your profit so bad then? Was life so terrible then, that such a thing is truly a horrific outcome? The countries economy was booming, job creation was at historic levels. And the US was living large. Would it not be prudent to simply consider that restoration of those taxes (as well as cuts, and tax reform), could in fact help far more than hinder? I'm being serious here, is there any serious reason you have for being against this, other than straight up greed? And yes, it is greed.
If you consider that millionaires and billionaires have reached that status, because of the benefits that the US entitles them to. How exactly is bringing the tax rate back to where it was during the Clinton years, highway robbery? It should also be noted that the US is one of, if not the only 1st world nation in the world, that collects less than 10% GDP in taxes. And people wonder why our deficit ballooned under Bush and Obama.
It's time to put some serious thought into what we value, what we cherish, and what we believe are the core principles of America. Is it wealth above all else? Or is it the continuity of the US, it's love of it's people, it's care and concern for it's Veterans, it's safety net for the elderly, and it's unwavering desire to allow everyone a chance to attain their dreams?
I'm not trying to start any fights, I'm simply asking people to look inwards, and reflect upon what it really is you value. If it's money, and only money, then I hope that voices such as yours are the minority. Otherwise, this country simply won't be able to rebound fully.
It's not exactly the same - we gained seats, David. And the Republicans lost seats, in both houses. Go ahead and keep your attitude, it's clear that you didn't learn anything from this.
lulu98... so, how many "promises" have you made that you could not keep? What didn't he do that made you change your mind... or let me guess... you are an Independent voter that votes for whomever whispers the right things in your ear?
I say you're whining because that is how it sounds... you're upset because he didn't do what YOU wanted him to do... and even though I think he could have done more I'm very happy with what he did manage to accomplish. Don't complain about something if you can't provide a solution. Your problem is that you voted for "instant gratification"... but the mess this country is in its not like you're "jonesing" for something sweet and you walk into the kitchen and getting a cookie... sorry to disappoint you, but this may take more time than President Obama or the next President may have... then what?
Theyre going to raise taxes on us on top of the tax bill we're each going to have to pay for Obamacare
I hope that you all realize what re-electing Obama is going to do to the middle class and the poor like me and my family
I'll be out of a job by the end of the year and have to go on welfare or some type of assistance
I've never had to take a dime from anyone and thought things were going to get better once Romney was elected.
Theres one big thing that most of you have overlooked in your fever to get Obama re-elected and thats real people
At least under Romney we wouldnt have to worry about paying additional taxes on top of what we already pay
Obama and Biden are already planning how to take more of our money and all of you think that they're going to take it from the rich
Theyre going to take it from who they have always taken from, the middle class and poor
It's not even been 24 hours since the election ended and theyre already scheming on just how to tax us
I hope you are all very proud that you have just taken my job and at least 17 fellow workers that I have worked with for the last 5 years.
And our families just want to say thanks for the added misery and worry.
The market will continue to be down through the end of the year. All of the traders know that effective January 1, their taxes WILL go up and they are not going to get out of paying the additional taxes under the ACA. The stock market will experience a temporary downturn until the traders can price the additonal cost of doing business into their portfolios.
The other part of what is going on is Europe. The head of the ECB announced that the economic downturn that has hit most of Europe has reached into Germany, which will also experience a shrinking economy. In addition, with the Greek parliament not yet able to approve additional austerity measures, Greece may yet go into full default. The Euro may still fall apart. Since Europe is our biggest export market, what happens there affects business here.
The final factor in the DOW downturn has been the actions of the GOP leaders. With both Boehner and McConnell signalling shortly after the President won that they were unlikely to compromise, Wall Street naturally responded negatively. Not at all surprising.
The only thing that could have resulted in a strong increase would have been if the House had returned to Democratic control.
doin a doubletake... you're welcome.... be PROUD... stand tall and refuse to use "Obamacare" when you and your family need it, that'll show 'em.
Nut jobs, weepers, stupid, whambulance ......... i see with a victory the left wing guys still just can't stop calling people names and being condescending. Nice.
Even though i didn't vote for the guy i would say congratulations to the Prez.
Arguing over whether or not Obama’s victory is a ‘mandate’ is irrelevant. He won an election that everyone said he was supposed to lose. The republicans thought they could run a one-armed street sweeper and win in a landslide (no offense to anyone intended). The fact that Obama won at all can be construed as a mandate, given the obstacles. Regardless, overall the Dems did a whole lot better than most thought. The whack-a-doodle right-wing nut jobs insured that the Dems increased their hold on the senate (and you know who I mean, i.e. “legitimate rape Akin”).
The crowd scenes from the two ‘victory’ events told the story – one that the Repubs need to understand if they ever want to be viable (And yes, America needs a viable republican party). The crowd at the Obama rally was made up of all types, all races, all ages, all orientations, men and women standing as equals. That is AMERICA! The crowd at the republican venue was made up of old white men with their dutiful wives standing obediently at their side. The difference was stark, (and what is it with republican women and their hair?)
But of course (and I predicted this a year ago, I’m just saying), the Repubs are already doing what they always do. They spend a busy 10 minutes in deep introspection, and come out the other side after reaching the conclusion that “we just weren’t conservative enough”. Goodie. Have at it boys. In 4 years you can be even more conservative, and you will be looking at 8 years of another president Clinton. And I can’t wait.
Every time George Bush said out loud that he had a Mandate I said "yeah, dinner and a movie with Cheney".
So... Jimmycarterthesecond... Is it hot wearing your own ass for a hat or is that normal attire for a plantation owner?
BTW... The now homeless tea-baggers called asking after you... It seems they need their practice dummy back.
One important thing to recognize:
Right now, all the advantage is on Obama's and the Democrats side. The sequester will primarily cut the defense budget and other areas that the Republicans don't want, while NOT leading to cuts to Medicare or other benefits that the Democrats want to keep. That is, the "fiscal cliff" is more of a problem for Republicans than it is for Democrats -- if the Republicans refuse to compromise, Obama and the Dems can sit there and refuse to do anything and let the sequester happen and... it's Republican who are going to be losing their minds over it. So, it's the Republicans that are going to have to play ball to get what they want, Democrats less so.
John Boehner: "Okay Tea Party sophomores, we tried it your way when you were freshman. And while that worked for you in the House here, it lost us the Presidency and the Senate. So this time around, we're going to do it the right way, perhaps salvage something of our party before you make us irrelevant."
At least, let's hope he's doing that.
B Murphy, excellent post! Now we need everyone to get to work! No name calling or crying... It is time for our congress to grow up and do the job they were hired to do. If the rest of us worked like some of those in congress has for the last 4 years... The unemployment lines would never end...
DIRP .........House going Dem would have not changed anything.
A small part Europe, and the market is pricing in higher rates and taking capital gains as they will be higher next year under the Presidents plan. A big part was pricing in the top dividend rate going from a top rate of 15% now to what the President wants next year of 43.3%. Thats almost a 200% increase on dividend taxes and you think the big money investors will just sit there and take it?
I sold all my stocks before the election, into 1 bond fund and the financial sector short, and won't remotely consider buying another stock until things are clarified next year. I had a dividend portfolio. I'm sure there are many investors doing similar things.
Jimmycarter,
Exactly. And the House can do nothing without Obama and the Senate.
And if nothing happens? The automatic cuts kick in. Who is more worried about those cuts? Republicans.
If Republicans refuse to budge, they lose more than the Democrats. The Democrats can demand more and the Republicans will have to give it if they want to avoid the automatic cuts. Doesn't get much simpler than that.
moshuluu: Everytime I see him all I think is disgraceful, disrespectful dog!!
That's easy to explain, you are a bigot
LOL little fiesty and other libs, 52% of the popular vote is hardly a mandate for anything.
I haven't heard of any programs that the left are willing to cut to obtain any type of "balance" to reduce our deficit. All I have heard is that obama is willing to cut programs that are near and dear to him. How about it mr obama, what programs and by how much?
Hopefully by this time POTUS obama realizes that effective legislation is not something that can be passed and implimented "right away". Regulators are still writing the healthcare and financial reform laws required to implement what the left passed in 2010.
82allamericans
Very compassionate, nice that you find it funny that my wife and children are put in a position to have to beg to survive
I hope you never have to be in this spot
And you are happy about that? Don't republicans understand the word Compromise? I hope Obama grows a pair and stands up to the obstructionists. We are not getting anywhere until the Republicans start acting like civilized humans. If you want a conservative in the White House, you better change your attitude. I want a conservative in the White House, I don't want the nut-jobs to tell me what it is to be conservative.
Evenin' all. First post of the day for me. I had to go to work. Well, I see our little rwnj friends are fired up and in fine form. That jimmycarterthesecond is quite a hoot with his racist rants. Anyway, the realization of defeat will have to set in eventually and even Boehner knows that further obstruction will cost him his job. So an olive branch is better than a middle finger. Lets just hope things get done.
I'm ready to take the hit. Let the Bush tax cuts expire. It's alot better than kicking this rotten-fish-filled can down the road. We all have to be willing to make some sort of sacrifice for our nation. Many people talk about smoke and mirrors, well the Bush tax cut was nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Time to end it for everyone, me included.
Next step is to balance the budget. We simply can't be spending what we don't have. It's going to take both sides to come to a COMPROMISE (yes, I said it) to get our house back in order. I'm hoping that Speaker Boehner can show he has more control over his party than he has in the past. I'm hoping that Reid and the POTUS will be willing to make the tough choices that will (potentially) not be favorable to their base. Like it or not, we're all in this together.
Well folks, the economy will be just fine. Don't worry that the Stock Market took one hell of a dive the day after O won a second term. O will just turn on the Monopoly Money making machine, and all will be well. Believe that, and do I ever have a great fishing pier in the middle of the Sahara Desert to sell you.
Mr. Speaker, did you get the memo? FDR beat Hoover by 17%. Reagan/Anderson beat Carter by almost as much. Considering that, Romney just got spanked by a sitting president saddled with a equally bad economy. How did that whole vague thing work out for you guys yesterday? How many GOP pundits said that if you did not win yesterday that the party should dissolve? A lot!!! Spend the next four years blocking the people's business and you'll put Hillary or Biden in office. BTW you can let George Bush out of the basement. It didn't work!
Question is; can Boehner actually control, or lead His pack of crazies? I am skeptical that He can. I agree with Harry. If these people really want to do something good for the American people they don't have to wait.
When I read the excuse that "We just weren't conservative enough," I have to wonder if the voters who thought Romney/Ryan weren't conservative enough voted for Obama. If not, who did they vote for? Did they stay home? Do the Conservatives really believe if they lay it on thicker, it's going to bring more voters to their side?
Congressman Boehner it is like this if the majority of America wanted what the Republicans was offering then Mr. Romney would be president..... Since he is not then quit the BS and give us what we want.....
TO: lulu98 who wrote:
We ARE the ones who voted for him, you didn't, and WE gave him the "mandate".
Period.
Forward!
This was very well said and I couldn't agree more.
B murphy, good post. Playing devils advocate to your tax question..... even as the president said a bad economy is no time to raise taxes and our economy is very tepid.
To be specific why i wouldn't raise rates now .... it would effect approximately one million businesses that employ a quarter of our work force raising taxes over 250k. These people use S Corps and LLC's that flow through to their marginal rate. Not sure how you can give incentive for a business to grow from the federal level by taking away another 5% of its funds to grow that business.
The only way out of our fiscal calamity is to grow our way out, raising taxes won't come anywhere near closing the deficit, much less touch the debt. Clinton era had no major issues financially and came in right at the end of a recession. The late 90's also had the lowest SPENDING/GDP since the 70's. Revenue is only a part of debts, spending is much more relevant.
Well lets see how bad obama screws up our nation during the next 4 years providing Benghazi doesn't rear up and bit him and Hillary in their asses.
I am so glad that money cannot buy our votes!! I would also like to thank all those who stood in line for hours to vote, you stood your ground, and I could not be more proud, as well as you should be. Voter suppression will not win, and the GOP better wake up you cannot buy your way to the Presidency nor will voter suppression work, you lost because of your far right ideology, you lost because of your racism, war on women, gutting medicare & social security, your obstruction you were elected in 2010 to help create jobs you created zero while President Obama help create over 5 million all by himself, Romney & Ryan's lies, flip flopping, and lets not forget the 47%, the only people you should be blaming is yourselves, and no one else!
They missed the most significant underlying clue in Boehner's speech. He mentioned that they need to get together and do tax reform like they did under Reagan. Well, the facts are that Reagan raised tax rates mainly on the top tiers.
Boehner is laying the ground work for saving face. I don't see taxes on the table much for the fiscal cliff discussion. The Bush tax cuts will be allowed to expire and shortly after the next Congress begins its new session, "tax reform" will take place. The end result will look much like what the President is asking for, but it will come about in a way that Republicans can save face such that the tax increases on the top folks won't be called tax increases.
You can count on the Tea Party to hold strong on the fiscal cliff discussions, but they will be overruled by the traditional Republicans and Democrats working together. This will send the message to the Tea Party and in the new Congress when some of their biggest loudmouths are looking for jobs, Boehner will start cracking down. We will see no more useless votes on repealing Obama Care and other far right agenda issues. Instead, count on Boehner to try to work around the edges. In reality, this could even have the potential to make Obama Care even better.
Boehner gave the clues today without rolling over. He left some room for saving face, but he knows very well why they lost. He determines what hits the floor for a vote and all the ridiculous, go nowhere bills won't be on the agenda. There is no point. They lost and continuing these crazy "principle only bills" will only hurt Republicans down the road.
Boehner didn't say "I give", but what he said in subtle ways today is that things are going to be different. The Tea Party isn't dead, but it's badly injured and looking for life support. Unfortunately for them the moderate Republicans will see the Tea Party's woes as a "pre-existing condition". They will be faced with coming around to sanity or being left behind. Although some skirmishes will still continue amongst the die hards, Boehner knows they lost the war and his best bet is to negotiate as favorable an armistice as possible.
TO: Mac Forrester who wrote:
No Mac, Boehner can't control the Teagaggers, we saw that last time, which is why we see Cantor smiling like a cheshire cat (because Cantor wants to be speaker and Cantor knows how to talk to the wackos).
Forward!
The mandate was simple: Americans do not like extremists.
The Republicans spent the last 2 years crying about contraception, gays in the military, "boo'ing" a gay soldier on live TV, calling a woman on birth control a "slut, claiming that rape is a "gift from God", making up a fake "war on religion", calling teenage homosexuals "barbarians", believing that a woman can "shut down" her reproductive system, and hundreds of other crazy things.
THAT is what the Republican party has turned into. And THAT is what America has said they do not want. There is a mandate, a mandate against religious extremists. If the GOP does not make a more moderate move to the center, they will be voted out again in 2 years.
"our job is to make Obama a one-term president" said Congress, showing once again, that they can't carry out the most simple of tasks they set for themselves.
Oh, and we took our country back in 2008. We kept it in 2012.
Suck it up, kids.
Also, if we really want to get into the nitty gritty of popular votes and mandates, what would you call it that in the past six presidential elections, the Republicans have lost the popular vote in five?
I definitely would call that a mandate of some kind.
The CBO reported that the 1%ers tax will cost 700,000.
Who wants to volunteer to be one of the 700,000? Won't be me. I lost my full time good job 3 years ago, despite multiple efforts to replace in kind, I'm now working on a crazy anything for a buck scheme to keep the heat & lights on and food on the table for the kids.
I'm glad to see that the comments are back. Ever since yesterday morning when I went to vote and was told I wasn't registered I've been wanting to complain to my fellow posters. When the lady was looking at the list for my name, I saw my wife's name. We registered the same day, same time, same place. As far as I can tell, the only difference is that she has as her party affiliation "Republican" (she voted straight Democrat this time).
I guess I was purged. I had to vote a provisional ballot, which probably still hasn't been looked at. I was very close to punching out the angry-looking True the Vote guy (You could tell he was not from around here, because he was lacking any hint of the Southern easy-going attitude).
On the plus side, it appears that even here in Florida there are a lot of "sleeper Democrats" (people like my wife who will not vote Republican until the Republican party loses its' extreme element). Even Florida looks like it will cast its' electoral votes for President Obama.
God bless America.
siobhan ..... Clinton never got 50%. Only 42% in his 2nd term as Perot split the 58% that didn't vote for him with Dole, i think.
Firstly let me say to Fox News and all that belong to them Na Na Na Na Na
Secondly –
If you look back at my posts you will find that I clearly laid out this
scenario in March or April, The GOP knew they were not going to win this
presidential election and sacrificed Mittens to save some of their rising
stars, who will continue to tow the party line, from total embarrassment. Why
do you thing they let that primary circus go on for so long?????
And last for 2012 and first for 2016 – JON HUNTSMAN is the only politician who has had the guts to stand up and say what we need in this country (and all Democracies) is TERM LIMITS FOR CONGRESS. If you want to do something to promote real change get behind JON HUNTSMAN and his policy
now!
It may take 4 years or 8 years or 10 but we in all democratic countries need to move forward and catch up with the speed of the real world. We need TERM LIMITS FOR CONGRESS or we leave your children and mine in the position that the old, the tired, the bought and paid for, the crooked, the inept, and one track thinkers to continue to write and pass or not pass the laws that we are expected to live by – ideas
need to be refreshed on a regular basis. Take this current lot for example the
whole in both the US and Aust should have been tossed out (especially anyone
who has been there for 8 years or more) and exchanged for a newer more advanced model….FOR CHRIST’S SAKE MICHELLE BACHMAN WAS RE-ELECTED WTF???????
THAT’S ALL
FOLKS……
Laura, what voter suppresion are you talking about?
Well I'm not going to KICK someone when they're down, yes it was one hell of a fight but to be honest We all can bad mouth each other till the Sun burns out that is NOT going to fix the problems our country faces, what We need is a full functioning government, not people slinging mud at each other like the past 4 years, Both sides need each other more than ever or We all better start learning to speak Chinese, I will admit watching Romney's speech that was the most honest Romney I've seen through this whole election, and I thought America would have done well with either Obama or Romney, yes they are totally different but their honest love of Country is what really mattered, so with that said lets all hope for a better America.
"vague"
How one word sums up the Republican Party.. really what else can you say ? It's how they work, the magic wand didn't work for Mitt. Lets do this, make stars and give them to Republicans when they do something, like in grade school. They are afraid President Obama will get credit if they do something, so they do nothing.
Well, gosh, if you are poor then you just don't work hard enough. You should get two more full time jobs and hope that none of your family gets sick. Also, as a poor person you have to realize that I am paying for your very existance and that you are part of Romneys 47%. Are you a closet Obama supporter or are you just a troll?
BigATC,
You're missing the point. If people are going to claim that the Democrats have no mandate because they haven't always gotten "enough" of the popular vote, what does it say when Republican presidential candidates have gotten even less than Democrats in the past 5 of 6 presidential races?
Doin a Doubletake
What a lot of the less fortunate don't realize, and you do, is that the more Obama created needy people, the more voters he created. By attacking big business, the big banks, the wealthy, oil, and anyone who has money he has created lower income people who need handouts and thus need him. Obama is a genius. You have to give him that.
But seriously, hang in there man. The economy moves not because of the President, but despite the President. It will get better.
82. The u6 unemployment number is 14.6% .he touts 7.9% but that number says little. I would like to keep at least a little of what I have earned for my children. Why should my savings be confiscated by the liberal left? We have always paid our share....40 years of working. Paying lots of taxes. I get upset when I know that my tax dollar is being squandered on programs that really solve nothing. WaPo talked to day about the 768 billion dollars being wasted in healthcare every year. Too many people taking from the government as a way of life. People on welfare for generations . You probably are on the receiving end of the government's largess.
ALL CONSERVATIVE, REPUBLICAN, TEAPARTY, INDEPENDENTS, PLEASE READ
PLEASE COPY, RE-POST, SIGN OFF, DELETE YOUR ACCOUNT AND NEVER RETURN
To borrow a phrase from Obama: DO IT FOR REVENGE!
Why argue with these democrats, liberals, progressives, whatever they call themselves?
The best revenge that we can dish out is to close these forums down!
If they have nobody to argue with they’ll soon get tired of kissing each other’s a$$es and leave too.
Take revenge on the lamestream media too like First Read and NBC Politics!
These liberals live for these forums and the best revenge is to take it away from them.
Also stop watching the lamestream media channels. Hit them where it counts, there biased wallets!
Obama would not have been re-elected if not for the protective curtain provided by the media!
Join me in shutting this place down!
I will post these until Friday evening, and I hope you will follow suit.
Friday, I will sign off and delete my account and never return.
Please join me and get just a little taste of REVENGE!
siobahn, i know what you are saying. Likewise the Dems got their clock cleaned by a larger vote margin in the 2010 mid terms due to spending and the unpopular Obamacare. R's picked up like 65 seats in the house. Did that change anything? No.
We shouldn't have to tell them they have a mandate as they should infer that just by being there. Neither party much cares about anything other than getting elected, making the other guy look bad and promoting their own ideology. Both sides are much much worse than the Reagan/Oneil and Clinton/Gingrich era.
When are our employees going to understand that they work for US, the American people, NOT THEIR PARTY??????? We have spoken! Wish they were listening.
We want BOTH sides to compromise (GOP, that means you too ... learning something new is FUN. HINT: compromise is NOT waiting until the other side grows sick and tired of your 2-year-old behavior and gives up and totally capitulates to your way of thinking.) In case you missed it, the Prez has been reaching out to you for the past 4 years. Maybe you truly didn't recognize it.
Time for the GOP to wise up before they become the EGOWMP (extinct grumpy old white men's party.)
D2 -- Bye. I don't think you will be missed.
Hannah, BO rarely reached out. The whole Obamacare process the Republicans were NEVER allowed in on the meetings. Not once. Outside of the debt ceiling meetings, they said he has meet with them 3 times this year. Only 3 times. He actually had an agreement with Boehner on the debt ceiling, including taxes, then backed out the next day after a meeting with Reid and the top Dems (minus Pelosi as she wasn't invited). What part of that is reaching out? You can't blame one side as both are at fault.
Doin a Doubletake
The media can do what they want. It is up to us as individuals to sift through the crap they produce. These vines are actually good, they allow Americans to express their views. I risked my life for this country and the freedoms it offers. I may not agree with everything the government does, and I may disagree with people on this vine, but that is what it's all about. In the Middle East, they will kill you for voicing your dissent.
Enjoy your freedoms, don't foresake them.
Lovely spin job! I am laughing so hard right now.... "the Peoples House"!!!!! Is that what Fox is spinning today?
Say what you want, but both parties are to blame for our current situation. I hope we don't have 4 more years of gridlock and another tripling of the national debt.
We've all seen this sick little play before! Call me sceptical but it sure is hard to believe anything these two faced GOP jerks say. I'm afraid we're in for more Republican obstruction; at least the next two years. If we don't get a Democratic house and senate majority in 2014 the American people are screwed.
When will voters learn that the Republican Party does not represent them?
lol @ Paul. You and Dick need to get a room together and cry your little rwnj hearts out. The DOW is up 7,000 since Obama took office. SEVEN THOUSAND.
American Girl. There was no mandate! And forward to what, more partisanship, higher taxes, no entitlement reform, bankruptcy or at the least credit downgrades. I am sure you think someone else should foot the bill. Are you willing to? What will you give up? What entitlement?
Get real, and please do. Everyone here is not a liberal progressve democrat. The Republican party keeps going farther and farther into the fringes. You are a good example. For the record, PROGRESSIVE IS GOOD. It means you are going forward and making progress.
Doin a Doubletake:
YES!!!
Please do follow through with your plan, doin a doubletake....and please encourage your like thinking friends and relatives to follow you...in fact why don't you try living in another part of the world that's more to your liking and let America get on with healing itself?
@ BigATC: I appreciate you playing devil's advocate, and personally, I welcome that kind of dialogue. I certainly don't know everything about taxes, or the economy, but some principles seem relatively simple to me.
I certainly agree that you cannot fix all of our problems, simply by raising taxes, and if I came across that way I absolutely didn't mean it that way. The ultimate point I was trying to make (other than to attempt to moderate the tone of not only these boards, but our national discourse) is there is no way out of this, without a balanced approach. Both spending cuts, and tax increase are pretty much unanimously recognized as being required to fix the problems that we have. And if certain segments of this population are absolutely refusing to even acknowledge that. Then, where does that leave us? That's really my point.
Some Democrats are also guilty of this, don't get me wrong. If you're a Democrat who thinks we can continue spending at the levels we're currently at, they're you're just as delusional as the Republicans that you label as greedy. They're both forms of greed. Sacrifices must be made on all sides, to get this under control, and I personally think it would be easier if everyone is simply able to identify what it is they personally value the most.
If it's money, then we're screwed. If it's family, peace, prosperity, and country. Then, there's still hope. No matter how much struggle there is ahead of us, as long as we can think of more than just the almighty dollar, there will always be hope.
doin a doubletake,
Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.
We won't miss you.
On the other hand, maybe we will. Your post can't be for real. It simply can't be. In actuality, you're a Liberal and your post is an effort to make the Right-wingers look as stupid as possible, isn't that right?
The claims that Barack Obama didn't try to reach out in his first term is little more than a myth. Trying to pass healthcare that was notoriously a Republican idea, compromising on the original healthcare bill, compromising on tax cuts, etc., etc.
You'd have to be ridiculously biased to pretend that the Republicans were the ones who weren't compromising and were being obstructive merely because they didn't like Obama at the beginning of his term. They made it explicit at the beginning of Obama's term and after the midterm 2010 election. There is no amount of spin that could suggest that otherwise.
This is not to give Democrats a pass. Democrats in Congress have been also been uncompromising and obstructionist, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid have been two of the worst. But, pretending that Obama was the one who was being divisive, pretending he was the one who refused to compromise and ignoring the blatant and explicit obstructionism of the Republicans in Congress is nothing more than biased thinking. I'm really tired of everyone playing for "their team" (regardless of whether we're talking about Democrats or Republicans). It makes me laugh that people complain about how uncompromising and partisan Congress is when those same people can't even have a basic conversation without being uncompromising and partisan.
@!$%#s like Obama and his minions like that moron Fiesty want us to work together now? After all the vile @!$%# they have been spewing for the last four years about us?
HELL NO. Hold Obama to the deal he made. Go over the cliff and burn his administration to the ground. If the country goes with it...well...ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES!!! It's time the liberals feel the pain of thier foolish choices. If it leads to economic depression and starvation....so much the better. This country needs to cull the morons and nipplesuckers.
So, Republicans stand strong. Kill Obama's agenda dead in its tracks. Keep saying no to those liberal @!$%# heads. The Progressives can want to get together and sing Kumbaya but we have a long memory. We will destroy the Obama agenda and them..COUNT ON IT.
B, i didn't take what you said as taxes are the only solution at all. A lot of people here seem to though. I think when people say "pay your fair share" they picture scrooge McDuck sitting on a 100 million dollar yacht eating cavier.
Taxes historically at any rate bring in around 18% of GDP over time. I found a chart once from the 50's to the present when rates were over 90% down to 28% and back up. I was surprised that the tax rate was a roller coster and the revenue on a 60 year chart was almost a straight line. The average from 50's to 76 was 17.6% and from 76 to 2008 was 18.3 Revenue as a percentage of GDP. It goes a bit over and a bit under but always comes back to that average. Which would tell one that if you spend over 19% of GDP you WILL have deficits. Obama is spending consistently 24% and his highest quarter was 25.56%.
The more you tax of something the less you get. A prime example, the first time i heard the term "pay your fair share", was early 90's when they had the luxury tax on boats. They estimated much more revenue from the extra taxes but got much less and decimated the boat industry and jobs within. It was quickly repealed by a bipartisan effort.
lulu. I see you've learned nothing from this exercise. The American people - the MAJORITY of American people have spoken, and they're behind their President. He won popular vote and electoral college. He won almost every swing state. The time for lies and distortion and endless spin and silly games at the expense of the progress of a nation is over. Your taxes are lower than they've ever been - thanks to Obama. Credit downgrades will happen ONLY if House GOP decide to force them to happen - this was the reason given by economists for the last downgrade - that congress would not work to prevent it, not Obama's actions. Entitlement reform has already started happening - the Health Care Reform Law will shore up medicare and ensure that seniors who depend on it have access to better, cheaper services. Now, I'm sure that you cheered for Bush's wars and his spending, so why do you suddenly expect others to pay for things that were left to the next guy to pay when you supported them wholeheartedly? Time to put up or shut up, if you know what I mean.
I don't care about mandates, or positions, or really anything but this: there's only about 10 congressional work days until Jan 1 (think about that for a few)
I want our government to do their job,
and if I'm not happy with how much progress has been made by midterms... I'm gonna vote out every incumbent... and I don't care which party they are from.
these idiots in congress need to do their jobs
Siobahn, how do you figure it a myth that BO didn't reach out to Republicans when he never invited them to a single meeting when they were drawing up Obamacare? Is that what you call reaching across the isle?
And it certainly isn't a problem from one specific party as they are both to blame. I think the 2010's made it worse. The bluedog dems were then vulnerable and took the brunt of the loses leaving the Dems void of moderates. Likewise the R's sent very fiscally conservatives thus giving both parties less moderate middle of the road representatives.
Anyone who believes this lying, hypocrite obstructionist is going to work with the President, well, I've got some desert land I'd like to sell you in the middle of the Pacific!!
Pedestrian, taxes have been lower, top rate hit 28% for a time under Reagan. The reason half the country doesn't pay taxes now is the Bush rates dropped the low rate from 15% to 10% and added earned income.
As far as blaming one party for the downgrade is silly. S & P gave them a number to hit, it was 4 Trillion over 10 years. The house passed a Bill that had 6 Trillion over 10 years and Reid wouldn't bring it up in the Senate to make a counter.
There were several bipartisan talks on the healthcare bill before talks broke down and the Reps and Dems in Congress started having their seperate meetings about it (not only because of Republican refusal to compromise but also because of some of the more liberal Democrats who would refuse to budge). You can easily look up "bipartisan health care talks" on google and find several news articles from February and earlier of 2010 talking about those bipartisan talks. So again, you're propagating myths.
[ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES!!!]
Poor Zathrose...are you upset? Disappointed maybe? Maybe next time you won't let Fox "news" shape your opinion for you.
...talk about "consequences"...
It comes down to this. You Republicans in the House have to tear up your pledge not to raise taxes on the wealthy. If you don't, you can expect the american people to knock down your doors until you can't stand it anymore. The people want President Obama's job bill passed. We the middle are not paying down the debt by ourselves, so get it straight. People want to go to work and you Republicans have played the game long enough. Either do the job by working together or resign. Because you have a whole nation watching every move you handfull of Republicans are going to make. You don't move in the right direction and I have a feeling your lives will turn to crap. We are watching you-------Get to work, you are employed by us. We pay your wages.
Pedestrian. You clearly are misinformed. Credit downgrades have already occurred. He won by a plurality not a majority. No mandate. ACHA will cause many employees to be pushed to under thirty hours a week which means they will not be covered by employer provided health care. My husband's large employer has pushed every one into high deductible pans and cites AHCA as the reason. My healthcare costs are definitely not lower costs. So what the hell are you talking about?
My fellow Americans, now is the time for bipartisanship and negotiation. If we want to remain a free and prosperous nation, with a thriving economy and a strong middle class, we need to balance our budget. I personally have a way to reduce the deficit in a sound manner without endangering the economy.
I Tax Reform
II Discretionary Spending
III Mandatory Spending (Entitlements)
Savings over 10 years=$9.28 trillion.
IV The American Economic Recovery Act
Net Savings=$5.5 trillion over 10 years
Time's running out Boner boy!
Better think about the future of the US as a whole.
A Hole!
Wow that rhymes!
Nice way to cherry pick your facts. What happened in 2008? The Great Recession! Taxes went down and expenses went up. As the economy slowly recovers taxes will go up and expenses will go down. Especially as we wind down those republicon wars.
And the deficit has been going down for three years.
Michael, the reason the jobs Bill didn't fly, and also had Democrats vote against it, was it had ONE TIME tax credits and ONE TIME business payroll tax cuts. These "one off" cuts never work. They didn't work when BO tried them before nor did it work when Bush did the 600 dollar one time refund. They just add to the debt. These don't provide any long term incentive to businesses to grow which is what we need. And there was nothing put on the table to offset these revenue losses.
Oh, now, I really resent that! Free, white and over 21, I am one of the few people that George W. Bush actually left with a job after he got done f'ing up the country! And I voted for Obama. Maybe if the Republican party can actually offer a candidate "of the people, for the people" I will consider voting Republican - again!
After extensive gerrymandering and a massive wave of outside spending, Republicans still lost seats in the House, and in Speaker Boehner's mind, that gives him a "mandate" to hold the country hostage?
Interesting concept Freshie. Except you would cut into to many special interest groups from both sides. LOL
You could probably just increase the rate of spending for everything to 1% until we get our house in order. It really wouldn't take that long if they had the guts to do it. That way every group plays by the same number and no favors.
As far as the cap gains rate, look up the last four changes and you will be surprised. Goes back 30 years to 1991. It went up once in 1987. It went down 3 times in 1991, 1997 (yes a Clinton tax cut) and in 2003. All 3 times the rate went down revenue went UP. The one time they increased cap gains in 1987(20% to 28%) revenue was LOWER for the next ten years, than the amount taken in in 1986.
Now I'm Laughing! Please don't leave! We'll all miss you sooooooo much!!!
Luv Ya, BUH BYE!!
.
I know an independent who said that the election is no longer about the issues, it is more about voting for who you like.
As a leaning right voterI have another idea. Stop voting Repub/.Conservative! I will either vote for the most Liberal candidate or not at all. Lets make this the most liberal gov on the planet and do away with political balance. One party! Give them what they want. Now I am done!
For all the liberals who are celebrating, congradulations. You are going to get what you want hahahahahaha, good luck with your economy. You voted for a President who if I remember correctly who failed in the budget department. It is like we rehired Jimmy Carter.
I think the real republicans are moving over to the libertarians now. Olympia Snowe just retired and her reason was to get away from the republican party extremists and partisanship. Olympia is a good person that cares for everyone and votes her conscience. A rarity of either party.
It's a real sad day for America. But, in the spirit of cooperation, I say, congratulations to the party of those who do not want the US to be the greatest nation on earth, you have succeeded! We are no longer the greatest nation on earth! I don't know who is, but it is clear that the voters have chosen to be a nation of takers rather than a nation of producers. Our citizens would rather rely on others than rely on themselves.
My only hope is that there are enough people left who desire to fight the fight rather than see our nation dissolve into a nation of has-bens. I've asked the question a number of times and have never received an answer, so it is obvious that the winner doesn't offer an answer, and that question is, what has Obama and the democratic party offer that is designed to grow the private sector and increase prosperity for all? Sadly, there has been no response. So, we are bound to face four more years of policies that are designed to destroy our country. That means that we will see cap and tax enacted as an administrative rule because the majority won't pass it as legislation. Sounds like tyranny? Well, it is! But, when people aren't smart enough to stand up for themselves, that's what you get. So, what happens in 2 years when the economy is still in the tank? IT'S BUSH'S FAULT! Well, no, it's your fault for being so dumb. What do all the "experts" tell you? If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is! So, taking more money out of the pockets of employers is going to provide incentives for employers to hire more people? Well, the plurality of people apparently believe it.
Oh, and I'm not rich. I haven't had health insurance for 4 years and I'm living from check to check. Theoretically, I should be a big supporter of Obama. But, I guess I'm old school. I'd rather support myself than force others to support me. Unfortunately, it's getting to the point that the majority would rather force others to do so. As sad day for America indeed!
No, I've heard that argument a whole lot of times. Problem was, the last two times it was cut (from 28% to 20%, and from 20% to 15%) an investment bubble followed (Clinton cap gains cut-dot com bubble; Bush cap gain cut-housing bubble).
Technically, a 4% surtax on income over $1 millions would have paid for the bill entire bill. And those tax cuts don't really stimulate the economy, as they are small and even if extended over longer periods would provide little incentive for businesses to hire. The problem with the economy is not a lack of supply of investment-ready capital ($2 trillion are in the bank); it is a lack of investment-ready ventures thanks to a lack of demand.
I agree with EEngineer I have a job, I always have, that is exactly why I voted for Obama and every other democrat on the ballot.
One last time I would like to welcome McConnel, Boehner, Cantor, Demint who in no small way contributed to the demise their candidate Romney to Waterloo. Welcome to Waterloo boys, you were not successful in achieving your no 1 priority, because it was a shameful, petty, unpatriotic priority and I am damn glad the American people did not stand for it. if you did your jobs Romney would have had a chance but you Waterlooed his chances not Obama's. Now get your sorry asses to work, and every time you try to denigrate this president remember that the electorate has more regard for him than they do for you, I tried to tell you for over two years how that Waterloo strategy would turn out for you, I hope you understand how that works now. If your going to continue to tout yourselves as the party of personal responsibility then you have to be at least be responsible enough to honor your own oath of office and do your jobs. Ha I am a "lazy, liberal, union man" and I know that much.
The only problem with your post Witchrunner is that the economy is way better than it was when Obama took over, that is a fact, by every measure. Well make that two things, the other thing is that most people who voted for Obama felt like it was exactly because they wished to stand up for themselves.
I forsee the Republican party splitting into two -- it's been brewing for a few years now. And with this loss, with them realizing that they need to change something, I think it's all the more likely. You can hear it in how Republicans have been explaining why they lost. Some believe it was because the party has gone too far-right, others believe it's because it wasn't far right enough. And by no means do I see an extreme right party as being sustainable. So, either the moderates kick out the extreme element in their party and the Republican party stays, or the moderates break away and create their own party (and eventually the "Republican party" that will be left will be treated as little more than a fringe group).
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. On one hand, I'm hoping we have a return to sanity, moderates kick out the extreme element, and we get to somewhat more civil discourse between the two main parties. One the other hand, the right-wing extremists are doing wonders for Democrats by alienating people away from the Republican party and making it all the more likely that Democrats will get voted in. I think, in the long-term, I would prefer the former. But, in the short-term, there are some plusses to the latter.
dirp
You aren't even close. Taking money out to pay for health care won't happen until the very last minute possible.
This is shifting wealth to different places.
Coal - the enemy of Obama is dead. Anything to do with coal is being sold. Some of the money is going into Health care - bad move, actually. Some is being pulled out and put into stable investments like money market, possibly bonds. Some went to gold. But a lot I think is headed overseas somewhere other than Europe with the exception of Germany.
Once the money goes overseas it isn't coming back. They need to do that now before the dollar sinks excessively from not only QE3, but also by other countries.
Quietly China has begun valuing under a different currency other than the dollar. China has been pushing behind the scenes for some time for the world to dump the US Dollar as the medium of exchange.
You don't want them to do this because you money will become worth even less. It's use as the world medium of exchange is the one thing that has held it's value stable over the years. We are destroying that with QE.
Forrest: you can say that the economy is better, but that doesn't make it true. How it is that you think a higher unemployment rate during every single month under Obama is better than the highest unemployment rate under Bush is beyond me. I guess you figure if the number is higher it must be better. I guess higher gas prices are better than lower gas prices. I guess lower participation rates in the workforce is better than higher participation rates (not that you'd know what that means). And, of course the big thing is that there still isn't one thing you can point to that Obama has done or supported that has been designed to improve the private sector. So, I guess you are saying that the majority of voters are dumb because they buy into the lies of the DNC PR machine. And, you may be right.
yup, the GOP split in two....
A- there are the far right tea party kinda people who want the entire government to be their way, won't compromise and think that simply standing around and making it painful for us is OK
B- the moderate traditional republicans that want to govern through compromise etc.
problem is, a GOP candidate MUST have the A group to get nominated.... after that, they are saddled with a Ryan or Palin and can't get close enough to B to get elected against even a poor democrat.
until the GOP sees how ridiculous the far right is... they won't get the presidency back.....
we need a compromise based, get stuff done government... Congress owes us that... get freaking moving
Witchrunner,
Comparing unemployment rates now to prior to the recession is like suggesting that FDR's unemployment rates should be compared to those pre-Depression. After the economy truly bottomed out, the economy has improved under Obama. Unemployment has dropped, labor force participation has begun increasing, the DOW has doubled, foreclosures are at lower rates prior to the collapse of housing bubble, etc. Yes, there are still a lot of things that need to improve, but trying to claim the economy has not improved under Obama is just ridiculous. If you want to try to make the case that it would have improved more under someone else, go for it. But again, trying to suggest it hasn't improved sounds like little more than sticking your fingers in your ears and singing "Lalalala!"
As for how has Obama supported or improved the private sector: How about investment in energy, particularly green energy (of course, you or someone else will bring up Solyndra -- conveniently leaving out the 95% of companies Obama invested in that not only didn't fail, but have succeeded immensely)? How about the increase in land permits to private companies? How about investments in education and technology? How about decreases in taxes on small businesses? You've got to be kidding me trying to claim that he has done nothing to help the private sector. Again, you can try to make an argument that he could have done better and that's a debate worth having. But these ridiculous all or nothing statements you have been making over and over and over again pretty much scream your bias and flatly indicate that you're not interested in debate, you're interested in lambasting Obama.
Is there a better indication of the private sector than the stock market WR, it is over twice as good as ot was in Nov, 08 I lost $480,000 of my retirment fund under Bush got it all back in the first two years of Obama. If he is so bad for business why are they so healthy now. There are many more people working now than when he took office Bush was losing over 500,000 jobs a month Obama has gained jobs each month. Those are real numbers and real facts, I do in fact understand my bank statements, I recouped a half million dollars after Obama took over that went south under Bush I understand that.
Has become a disgrace to the Republican party recently. Is ready to kiss Obama's a$$ on anything he wants.
BTW WR I hope you can get some health insurance though your employer as a fringe benefit, I truly hope you do not have any unfortunate incidents with your own or your families health, because medical bills can and have wiped out many hardworking families as the costs can be outrageous. You may want to check into at least getting some type of catastophic medical coverage, it really does not take all that much for a hospital to hand you a six figure bill.
82AllAmericans, re- post #1.26, Obama struggled with Congress for four years? Maybe 2 years, and that was because of his own inability as a statesman. How could any President besides Obama screw up his 1st two years in office with a Senate and House of Representatives majority? Did you see the incumbent Presidents victory margines? a few million votes over six states? Well I guess that's more of an accomplishment since he was in Chicago. Here he managed to get his apposition kicked off the ballot to run unapposed! In Chicago, the " chosen one's" home town, they re-elected Derrick Smith,who was thrown out of city hall for taking a $5K bribe on tape! This balloon-head is facing criminal charges, yet wouldn't step down his office,did I say,"on tape"? And last but not least Jesse Jackson Jr. the section 8 poster boy who is under pending federal indictment for trying to buy Barack's vacated Senate Seat from imprisoned ex-Gov Rod Blagojevich. This nut-job has been MIA for 6 months, didn't campaign and spent no $$,didn't do his elected job,but was re-elected!! But somehow these a$$holes remained on the ballot? Oh well,"Chicago Machine Politics" at it's best from Chicago to you. Oh, I forgot, now it's from The White House to you! 4 more years,4 more years, foreward,foreward,.. FORE!...FORE!!!!
Obama is going to say thanks to the people who got him elected by kicking them in the teeth and giving more to the rich. I'm sure he views them all as suckers:
Obama wins reelection
By Patrick Martin
7 November 2012
…Obama’s victory speech, delivered just before 2 a.m., sounded the same themes. He downplayed any mandate from his election victory, speaking instead of “difficult compromises” that lay ahead.
He pledged to “sit down with Governor Romney to talk about where we can work together.”
“I am looking forward to reaching out and working with the leaders of both parties to reduce the deficit and reform the tax system,” Obama declared, adding, “You voted for action, not politics as usual.” This should be understood as a pledge that the reelected president will move rapidly to reach a budget deal with congressional Republicans, in line with the demands of Wall Street.
Obama will repay those who turned out to vote for him by carrying out measures that will devastate their jobs, living standards and social conditions. The “grand bargain” that he has pledged to negotiate with the Republicans will come at the expense of the working class, through trillions in cuts to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and other social programs.
Obama also hailed the US military, mentioning specifically the special forces troops who killed Osama bin Laden, while claiming that his administration was “bringing war to an end.” This was a reference to Afghanistan, but US troops will remain there in force for years to come, while those who are moved out will be redeployed for intervention in Syria, Iran or other targets of imperialist military attack…
...The vote is an expression of deep popular hostility to both the social layer personified by ex-Bain Capital CEO Romney, i.e., the financial parasites responsible for the 2008 crash and the subsequent economic slump, and to the ultra-right politics of the Republican Party. It also shows there are remaining illusions within the working class that Obama, despite his record over the past four years, represents an alternative to Romney and the financial elite, although popular support for Obama has diminished significantly since 2008.
Many who voted for Obama did so to keep Romney and the Republicans out, not because they were enthusiastic about a second Obama term….
…It is more clear than ever that the Tea Party was created by sections of the media and corporate elite in the aftermath of the Republican collapse in 2008 as an instrument to push through far-right policies and shift the official political spectrum further to the right. Despite the enormous publicity given this right-wing grouping, it has negligible popular support….
...The Democrats will, as always, interpret their own victory in the most restrained and conservative terms. The last thing they want is a mandate to oppose the plutocracy, since they serve the same corporate interests. They will extend the olive branch to the Republicans, allowing the Republican-controlled House of Representatives to set the agenda in Washington, as it has for the past two years.
The result of the contests for the 435 seats in the House showed virtually no change, with Democrats winning back some seats they had lost in 2010, particularly in the northeast, Illinois, Florida and California, but losing seats elsewhere in the South and scattered across the Midwest, for a net gain of a handful of seats, far short of the 25 required to win control.
The Obama White House made virtually no effort to elect a Democratic-controlled House, with the president providing a recorded phone call offering his personal support to only one Democratic congressional candidate.
The reaction of spokesmen for the two parties demonstrated the continued aggressiveness of the Republican right, despite the presidential defeat, and the undiminished desire of the Democrats to accommodate the Republicans. House Speaker John Boehner, the top Republican in Washington, declared that the election was “no mandate for raising taxes.” Julian Castro, chosen by Obama as the keynote speaker at the Democratic convention, said the election was “a mandate for compromise."
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/nov2012/elec-n07.shtml
Cry baby Boehner wants to have a tax talk. We know how that will go. If all the rich don't get more tax breaks the talk will be over. Who's this clown think he's bull@!$%#ting? Just another scam to say oh it's all Obama's fault.
Looks like the same-old talk from Boehner. There's always the big BUT.
If those clowns are still giving us a gridlock in a couple of months, I sure hope Obama gets the Executive pen and start writing Orders.
We can't have the sam-O for anymore time.
Forest: I appreciate your concern. Actually, the unfortunate fact is that the stock market is no longer the indicator it used to be. Why? Because the heads of the Fed have become political. I doubt that you will find one social security recipient that will agree that the increases, or lack of increase they have received in the last 4 year actually corresponds to their expenses. Prior to Bernanke they (the Fed) have been for the past 50 years, for the most part, apolitical. Their concentration has been on preventing inflation (mostly caused by politicians). They were interested in true fiscal policies that have proven themselves to be tried and true. They resisted political pressures. Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case under Bernanke. QE1, QE2, and QE3 have been designed to boost the stock market in blind hopes of boosting confidence in the economy. It's why the market lost over 300 points today. Keynesian economics has never worked, yet it is the mainstay of the current socialist. The "advances" in the stock market has had nothing to do with the state of the economy lately, but it has had everything to do with the fed essentially printing more money and giving it to the financial system to invest for the purpose of encouraging the banks to invest in the stock market to in boost the price of stocks. Care to offer another explanation for QE3?
Of course he's vague. He has no clue.
The wealthy are really bummed Romney didn't get elected. The really wanted those tax cuts that would have them paying for only .98% or less of their income in taxes. Of course, with the wealthy paying almost nothing in taxes like this, that would mean the rest of Americans would have had to take up the slack. And yes, Romney probably could have brought jobs back to the US. Once he got rid of minimum wage, then the corporations could compete against the cheap labor in other countries by paying workers $10 a day. Of course your reduction in pay wouldn't free you from any of your financial responsibilities and mortgages, you'd have to find a way to pay for everything with your $240 or so a month paycheck. But believe me, the banks would be more than happy to reposes everything you own when you defaulted on your payments. Yes, and money would be rolling into America, it's just that most of us wouldn't see any of it.
republicans should just look at a simple pie chart on spending. that would erase half of the misconceptions they have. They should also take the time and look at a ten year line graph of the deficit, that would erase more misconceptions.
The question that we should all ask each other and ourselves is "Is america worth paying for"? They should put a place on tax forms asking if you would like to donate to pay down the debt, with a space for the amount you want to give and a space to list your party. lets see who is willing to put their money where their country is.
Who thinks republicans would donate?
I'm good with Boehner's offer to negotiate being somewhat vague... it's called negotiating. I'm skeptical of his motives, but would be thrilled to death if they could strike a deal with some true give and take. The net positive to our economy would be huge.
So here's the deal... start with "what did the budget look like when it was balanced?" then go down the list. 1) Adopt the tax rates in effect at that time, 2) all spending beyond that balanced budget becomes the target of cuts or the recipient of new funding sources to pay for it.
Stick with this plan and when the economy recovers, you're done. Simple.
By the way, what I just proposed above, was restoring Clinton tax levels and figuring out how to either cut or pay for war, Homeland Security, Medicaid, and any other new spending that Bush or Obama added on.
Most successful small businesses in this country file their taxes with their individual tax returns. This causes their business revenue to be listed as income. Many of the tax returns that fall in the top tax bracket are in fact small business. If we raise the tax rate for the top tax bracket we raise taxes on small business. That will cause many of these small business, which are having difficulties in this economic environment being profitable, to lose money. If these businesses fail, the result on unemployment will be horrific. With even higher unemployment, the current trillion dollar deficits will go higher as income and social security taxes reducing, and expenses like unemployment, social security, Medicaid, etc going higher. If you only look at the direct effect and not the indirect effect of tax increases, you simply are ignoring the fact that increasing taxes during economically hard times is never a smart move. In 2009 President Obama agree with that when he said “Normally, you don’t raise taxes in a recession, which is why we haven’t and why we’ve instead cut taxes.”
I would have to call in ignorance on the part of those that think if they increase the cost on the wealthy then they(the wealthy) will suck it up and NOT raise the cost of there goods to the consumers so they can still get there HUGE pay.
So whenyou pay $4 for a gallon of milk and $3 for a loaf of bread you can only blame yourself.
WOW KHAN now there is a dooms sayer right there saying the rich want to cut wages to 10 per day, only a RETARD would think that way, or a DNC dumbass.
George I see ignorance is BLISS. You do know that Republicans DONATE more the DEMORATS do.
Enjoy your ignorance. Expect the rich to to NOT raise the cost of there goods to OFFSET the tax increase they will still get there millions at the cost of the consumer.
The people have spoken.......Unintelligent people for sure but they have spoken. They reelected Obama so will get higher unemployment, lower economic growth, more people on Food Stamps, more people in Poverty, higher health insurance, higher gasoline prices, and higher taxes.
That's okay - you made your bed: Now you will have to sleep in it.
The government cannot continue spending more than they bring in so they either need to decrease spending, increase taxes, or a combination of both. So here is the deal: Sequestration takes place January 1st and everybody will pay higher prices for health care, gasoline, and taxes.
Get ready for EVERYBODY to lose about 10% of your income in higher prices and taxes. And this is during a time (with no sign of recovery on the horizon) when wages are stagnant and in many cases decreasing. Who ever thought we would have a DECREASING standard of living as we get older and a DECREASING standard of living for your children.
But THAT is what you voted for. I tried to save you. I tried to give you a future. I tried to explain why you didn't understand. But going from "Hope and Change" to "it's STILL about Hope and Change" might sound good but means nothing. Platitudes. But you fell for it. The unintelligent didn't think this through. So now you have to live with your decision. So open your checkbook and get ready to write a HUGE additional check to the government every year.
I personally am closing my business effective December 31st so the increased taxes won't affect me. I have enough saved up so will watch this country collapse from my front porch. I feel sorry for my employees though - I'll admit that. When they got the notice yesterday that December 31st they will be out of a job they certainly wondered where the "Hope and Change" was. I guess that means "I HOPE I can find another job and wonder if I can find some loose CHANGE in the sofa".
Platitudes don't pay the bills. Platitudes don't allow a business to make money incentivizing them to expand and higher MORE workers. I hope you enjoy your "Hope and Change" but when you realize that you reelected a person that will increase the unemployment rate, lower economic growth, and requires you to lose about 10% MORE of your current income in taxes (if you still HAVE an income) one day you will wake up and say "What have I done?!?!". I wish you would have asked yourself that on Monday rather than Thursday but "too little too late"......... Enjoy your declining and collapsing country.
steve: You are right about repubs donating more than dems. About a month ago I looked up Obama's donations and you wouldn't believe what they were. Until Obama got involved in national politics his donations were only about $2,500 a year, less than 1% of his income. Then, realizing that it would look like he didn't care and would hurt his election prospects, he upped his donations. Heck, I know people who regularly donate 10% or more of their income. Yes, people making $30,000/yr. donate more than Obama making more than $400,000/yr. Kind of reminds you of Clinton's tax returns when he took deductions for $4.00 for used underwear.
Let's face it, Romney got a bad rap by Obama's non-news organizations, NBC included, about the tax rate he's paid. They conveniently failed to mention (or skimmed over it) the fact that Romney paid more in charitable donations than he did in taxes. In other words, his tax rate would have been substantially higher if he hadn't made the donations.
The fact is that a libs' idea of compassion is taking money from those who make it and giving it to those that don't, including themselves.
This does:
... the numbers for Bush's last three months. Between October and November, 597,000 jobs were lost; between November and December, 681,000 were lost; and between December and January, 741,000 were lost.
August 30, 2012 -- The private sector created, on average, about 157,000 jobs a month in the past 29 months — a pace somewhat faster than population growth.
DJIA Dec 1, 2008 8149
DJIA Nov 8, 2012 12934
Dec. 29, 2008 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. corporate earnings fell for a sixth-straight quarter, the longest streak in at least 20 years, as consumer spending on automobiles, homes and retailers collapsed.
Jul 31, 2012 (Bloomberg) -- Profits for companies in the Standard & Poor's 500 Index have grown for 10 straight quarters, helping to power the index to a more than twofold increase since March 2009.
Now, as far as George W. Bush and jobs go, look at that number above: for the past 29 months, there were, on average, ~160,000 private sector jobs created each month. How did George W. Bush do during his 8 years as president?
You can download monthly data from the BLS and check it. I did. 8 years, 96 months and only 25% of those months did the economy create 160,000 or more jobs. Obama, fighting a recession, has done better than that!
No, you can try to glorify Bush all you want but he will go down in history as the worst president the US ever had!
Sorry, Lulu - there's just no proof that this will be the case for the majority when HCR kicks in. If your husband's employer is treating their employees like that, he can go on the open market and find a better plan. Your costs might not be lower, but costs didn't grow at the same rate they were before HCR took place. They also can't throw you out when they get tired of paying for you either. I'm sure you don't want a handout or a freebie or anything, so what the hell are you crying about?
eengineer: I think you'd be better off sticking to your engineering. Or, if your engineering is on par with your economics, then you'd better change professions altogether. I realize that libs like to blame Bush for the crash, but the fact is that it was the dems who caused it. I've been over it before, but it bears repeating. Shortly after Bush took office he warned of the looming mortgage crisis. The crisis was caused by legislation called The Community Reinvestment Act. That Act was passed by the dems and signed by Carter. It was revised under Clinton as he proclaimed that it was unfair that everybody didn't have an opportunity to own their own home. So, the lending requirements were liberalized dramatically. In fact, the Fed penalized banks that didn't meet their "diversity" requirements. The idea was that banks needed to loosen their lending requirements. To encourage that, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac backed the loans. "Relining" was banned, which is funny because when Fannie was first created in the '30s, redlining was a requirement so that loans weren't made in troubled areas. They didn't want to increase the chances of the loans going belly up and putting Fannie on the hook.
Barney Frank filibustered the legislation passed by the House that would have prevented the melt-down. Heck, if you remember, Barney Frank decried the tight credit requirements that banks and the Fed put in place less than a month after the crash in 2008.
So, as in all things political, never let the facts get in the way of political spin.
doin a doubletake banned, comment spamming - partially about how they were going to 'sign off and delete my account and never return', which helped.
Senator Reid on the Fiscal Cliff: "My way or the highway".
Sounds a lot like Senator Murray (D-WA) who stated: "If the Republicans don't go along with taxes on the rich, then America can go over the Fiscal Cliff."
BTW Senator "Pocket Veto" Reid: Where is the National Budget for the past four years ?
Understand that both Reid and Murray (and Obama for that matter) all WANT taxes to go up on EVERYBODY!! There is not enough money from just the "rich" to even make a difference. Even if you took ALL their income (100%) it STILL couldn't cover the deficit in even one year.
No, the hope and plan for the Democrats were to get Republicans to fight taxes on just "the rich" and that would cause the taxes through Sequestration to go into effect automatically on Jan 1st and ALL taxes going up.
The choice is clear: NO tax increases for anybody or tax increases on EVERYBODY!! That is your choice. Frankly I want taxes to go up for everybody. Because EVERYBODY must kick in money to pay for this out of control spending and when most are unaffected thinking they can just get it from "the rich" then nobody thinks or realizes how this country is financially bankrupt. So I am looking forward to taxes going up on EVERYBODY and then all you Obama voters wanting more and more "free stuff" will finally realize nothing is free in this world. EVERYTHING has a cost.
And your government's out of control spending will now hit YOUR pocketbook. Just keep in mind with new regulations, elimination of the payroll tax cut, increased taxes due to ObamaCare, AND the increased income taxes coming through Sequestration January 1st EVERYONE will pay on average between an additional 10% and 15% of your income. So if you make $30,000 a year you will be paying between $3000 and $4500 in NEW taxes next year. So how is that whole "Hopey Changey" thing sounding now? How is that lie that if you make less than $250,000 there will be no new taxes on you sound now?
You think 7.9% unemployment and 2% GDP sounds bad now just wait until unemployment goes back up quickly over 10% AND we enter a new recession January sound?
But you reelected Obama and giggling from ear to ear. Well I hope that giggle is worth 10% to 15% more of your income because come January THAT is what it is going to cost.
I wish I could believe that Boehner was being sincere when he spoke, but there seemed to be an underlying threat to some of the things he discussed. Watch the video and the way he skirts issues regarding taxes for the top while threatening what he refers to as "entitlement programs" ... meaning Social Security, Medicare and Affordable Health Care. They are STILL beating the drum to privatize Social Security, turn Medicare into a voucher system and overturn the Affordable Health Care Act. I don't believe, for one minute, that they are going to willingly work with the president to make things better for the middle class.
The GOP has shown its true colors ... they want money and power. They represent the top 1% - 2% of Americans while the Democrats look after the other 99% of Americans. Unfortunately, due to a lack of knowledge, ignorance or inability to think on their own, there are still people who believe that those in the top 1% will take care of the "little people" if they are given lots of tax breaks. Trickle down economics has never worked in the long term. We need to strengthen the middle class and grow our economy from the middle out for our economy to remain viable.
We do not need to be led, we need to be treated as equals and fairly represented by our elected representatives. The majority of Americans elected President Obama. Obviously the majority of Americans preferred his plans for our nation over those offered by Romney. I only hope that the Republicans have gotten that message.
Congratulations President Obama!
Paul-401431, you're suspended for a day for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
D. Appel: Why is it only appropriate the the few rich be asked to pay more? Sorry, if you want a tax increase it should be a tax increase across the board. EVERYBODY pays more. You see this is the problem with liberal thinking: liberals always want someone else to pay for their stuff.
Margarat Thatcher said it best when she said "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.".
So if we are to be "fair" as everyone CLAIMS to want then, okay, let's be fair. Everybody's taxes can go up 10% so this government can continue to waste money. BTW, even a 10% increase across the board STILL does not cover the annual deficit but at least it is fair. Let's have 10% across the board tax on gross income. If you make $10,000 a year you write a check for $1000. If you make $100,000 a year you write a check for $10,000. If you make $1,000,000 you write a check for $100,000.
Let's be "fair" as everyone seems to say. Flat 10% additional tax on income. Of course the economy will collapse but that obviously doesn't matter - you voted in Obama and the result is going to be the same thing anyway: a collapsed economy. So we will simply let the Sequestration go into effect January 1st and everybody then kicks in to cover the wasted government spending.
BTW, you will lose between 10% and 15% of your income next year in additional taxes due to regulations, payroll tax cut expiration, new ObamaCare taxes, and the increase in across the board income tax rates that affects everybody's tax rates. But you must have already known that because otherwise voting for Obama would have been foolish if you voted for Obama but didn't know about the increased taxes you were going to pay. So you voted FOR increased taxes of about 10% to 15%. Congratulations, you will get exactly what you deserve.
@Pedestrian. I have never taken a handout ever. You seem to be oblivious to what companies such as Darden are planning. Run everyone down to under 30 hours thereby making them not eligible for company provided healthcare. That is how the law was written. So fewer hours and no healthcare. In my case we will stick with the companies plan...still certainly cheaper than on the free market.
ProBusiness,
The answer is easy. The rich have benefitted more, thus the rich pay more. Research show that in the past 30 years, in the good times -- the rich's income went up exponentially more than everyone else's income. In the bad times, it has generally decreased less than everyone else's income. Middle-class incomes have stalled out over the past 30 years (that would be before Obama took office, before anyone tries to tell me that's all Obama's fault). The system benefits the rich more, so the rich pay more to keep the system. It doesn't get much simpler than that. People would like to pretend that the rich are being so put upon by being asked to pay more taxes, but they have exponentially benefitted more from our economic system than anyone else. So, it is in fact quite fair to ask them to pay more.
However, it's much easier to demonize the poor and act as if they are just sucking the government's teat and living large. But again, none of the research supports that -- on average, the vast majority of people on welfare spend less than 18 months on welfare (so much for the long-term dependency myth). On average, women on welfare have 2 kids, which matches the average number of kids of US women as a whole (so much for the myth of the women who churns out 8 kids just to collect welfare).
Also, tax hikes across the board are likely to slow down economic growth. Please go see the report the CBO put out on what will happen when sequestration takes effect (a big part of which is elimination of the Bush tax cuts).
Also, anyone educated on economic matters (whether they be left or right leaning) will be glad to explain that the best way to decrease our debt in the long-term is via economic growth. And what does the past show? Austerity measures don't promote economic growth. Raising taxes on middle income and poor don't promote economic growth. Also, I don't know if you were a Romney fan or not, but Romney essentially claimed in his tax plan that he wanted to cut taxes for the middle class and poor and raise them on the rich. His tax plan entailed a 20% tax cut across the board paid for by closing loopholes primarily for the rich. So, for his tax plan to have worked that would mean what? Taxing the rich more and middle-class and poor less. So, Romney apparently wouldn't have met your demands either.
Essentially, every claim you've made is not supported by.. anything.
Anybody else want to actually have a debate about facts and evidence? Because so far on here, I haven't seen much of either.
Siobahn27:
Just so you know my post was facetious. I was NOT suggesting taxing everybody an additional 10% was a good plan I was simply clarifying for the liberal uninformed that they did not know what they elected. Taxes for everybody is going up - not just the rich. And this is going to cause a severe economic recession. Just so you know I actually teach Economics at the college level so if you want to debate economic theory I welcome the discussion.
The problem we have is not a "tax" problem it is a "spending" problem. Do you know that what the federal government SPENT in Fiscal Year 2007 is about equal to what was brought in this year in tax revenue? So don't give me this "song and dance" about how the rich are not paying their "fair share". They are paying MORE than their fair share this year. But if tax revenues this year are about equal to what the federal government spent in 2007 how come we have a deficit of over $1 trillion?
Well anybody with the IQ of at least 10 points above a turnip can quickly determine that federal spending itself must have increased about $1 trillion then. Where is that money? Why does the federal government need to spend about 40% MORE than they did in 2007 when you and I are probably spending about the same as 2007 or even less?
The solution is simple: Return the Federal Government to 2007 spending levels. There - I just balanced the budget. You see you can't increase spending by $1 trillion then blame taxes for the shortfall. The tax revenue is about the same as it has been over the last 8 years - so we should spend that money efficiently rather than waste it.
So I suggest you look up the term "facetious" because you must not be aware of what that means or was unable to read and comprehend my comments appropriately.
End result is we don't have a tax revenue problem - we have a spending problem. And my comment was simply saying that if the people believe reelecting Obama is the right choice, and more government spending is needed, then it is only fair that the unintelligent people who voted for Obama help PAY for this extra spending. They voted for Obama so they voted for higher taxes. That is the only way to pay for increased government spending is for the leeches and parasites who voted for Obama pitch in and pay for.
No one wants sequestration to go through. That was the point -- it was supposed to be unpalatable to motivate Congress to reach an agreement beforehand. I will give you however, that things are in Obama's favor when it comes to the sequestration. The Republicans are much more concerned about what is going to get cut if it goes through than the Dems are. And so Republicans are the ones that are going to have to come to the table and be more willing to compromise. And if the Republicans don't? Then the sequestration happens, things get worse for a bit.. and eventually the Republicans will give and we will finally get some compromise. Either way, the Republicans know they will have to compromise and they're coming around to it slowly but surely.
We have a spending problem because we are still recovering economically. Austerity measures -- which is what you're essentially demanding when you demand 2007 levels of spending -- does not promote economic growth. And if you're an economics professor, then I guess you understand that a strong economy is what will bring the debt down, create revenue, and make it easier to decrease government spending (and in fact, someone of it would essentially decrease automatically -- less unemployed? Less unemployment benefits being paid out, less food stamps, less welfare, less medicaid, etc.).
You claims you were being facetious about your post.. and then go on to essentially make the exact same points merely in a different way.
@ProBusiness
If you really understood anything about the tax structure, rather than simply spouting off the bitter vomit of the GOP, you would know that the very wealthy do not pay THEIR FAIR SHARE. I am not asking for tax INCREASES on the rich. I am asking for TAX FAIRNESS.
That means that, when a CEO is provided with a luxury vacation resort home that is owned by his company, the value of that should be added to his/her bottom line as income rather than a freebie because the corporation can take part or, depending on how they twist it around, all of what they paid for that home as a deduction. The same goes for cars, airplanes, vacations, furniture ... ALL the stuff a corporation buys and writes off as a business expense, lowering the amount of taxes they pay, then GIVES THE STUFF to the executives to "use". The rest of us, the middle class working people, have to buy stuff out of our own pockets AFTER we pay taxes on our salary and it is NOT DEDUCTIBLE.
Also, by utilizing Capital Gains, which is taxed at 15%, rather than at an income tax rate, those in the higher brackets deflect the income tax rate into capital gains and lower the amount they pay. There are quite a number of these loopholes. Capital Gains is only one.
Finally, by the use of "bonus" opposed to "payroll income", there are certain taxes eliminated and they are able to keep a larger portion of that money than if it were straight income. This is why some CEOs take $1.00 per year salary and a $5 million dollar bonus at the end of the year.
All I want is a level playing field. It's not a matter of RAISING taxes on the wealthy, but they damn sure should be made to pony up their fair share. If I have to shell out 24% of my income to taxes THEY SHOULD HAVE TO PAY THE SAME PERCENTAGE! I don't give a rat's ass about their BOTTOM LINE payment. 24% for me ... 24% for them. Period. End of story.
And yes, I voted for President Obama. I believe in his policies for the most part and, even if there are policies I do not agree with, I know for sure and for certain where he stands. He doesn't flip-flop and lie just to get a vote.
If you have read any of my posts from the past you would know that I am a strong supporter of a value-added (flat) tax. It would be the best solution for all of us ... the poor, who spend less, would pay less. The rich, who spend more, would pay more. The people working for cash (drug dealers, hookers, illegals, etc. ) would pay their fair share as well. It must, however, include EVERYONE. Companies, churches, not-for-profits ... EVERYONE would pay the same percentage and there could be NO tax-exemptions.
But it will NEVER happen because it is the very people who would have to pay their fair share that would be the ones who would make the law. Ain't gonna happen.
Have a nice day.
Bonehead Boehner! is this the same kind of agreement he agreed to the last time and then walked out the door? Crybaby Boehner can't be trusted. Go cry somewhere else next time and have your smoke out doors rather than contaminating the air on Capitol Hill!
Boehner is a two faced piece of garbage just like the Romney and lying Ryan were!
doin a doubletake
Obama lowered small business taxes 18 times. I am a small business owner who has seen the benefits of the help the administration has enacted the last four years. The business you worked for is perhaps mismanaged.
The Republicans would have increased revenue by eliminating YOUR tax deductions while continuing to reduce the taxes on the richest in the country, who could be unemployed FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES and never need "welfare".
The Republicans need to grow some stones and tell Grover Norquist to kiss off.
I also welcome the chance to discuss economic theory with you. But to the point, I don't see the problem with raising taxes on everybody. Maybe not as abruptly as the fiscal cliff would (although I do propose letting it happen and then shielding the immediate blow with $400 billion in infrastructure spending until about 2015
First of all, you forget to mention that spending has always increased year-to-year since World War II, partly due to inflation, economic growth, and population growth. You also fail to mention that (A) we went through a recession, which deeply cut into revenues (and reduced potential receipts) and increased spending automatically, (B) that 2007 was the peak of a housing bubble, which artificially inflated revenues and deflated expenditures, and (C) that we can no longer live in an economy that collects 18-19% of GDP and spends 19-21% of GDP. Due to the oncoming storm of retiring Baby Boomers, we will have to reform entitlement programs, which will nonetheless lead to dramatic increased in spending of maybe 2-3% of GDP, forcing revenues to go up by roughly 3-4%. Essentially, the new normal of government's share of the economy will hover at around 23%, unless we can cut down the military. But either way, revenues and expenditures will have to be higher.
Actually, anybody who has gone through the hell of Econ 101 and back (including yourself) would realize that two things happened in the past 5 years: revenues dropped due to less employment and investment, and spending increased due to higher unemployment. Both of these happened retroactively, and would have happened had Romney, McCain, or Obama been in office. The government is spending more (and taxing less) because the economy is weak and needs boosting, which the government automatically does due to unemployment benefits and income taxes. Surely you, a college professor of Economics, must know that spending automatically goes up and revenues automatically go down during a recession???
No, revenues have not been the same for the past 8 years. They went up during the housing bubble and crashed after the burst, and spending went up due to the ensuing crisis. And you cannot return spending to 2007 levels while unemployment is at 7.9%; that would tank the economy. You would essentially be going off the fiscal cliff. Unless you are only willing to admit that spending cuts hurt the economy to save the military budget from ANY cuts, or you are completely ignoring the facts. I am not mocking you, just trying to prove a point.
Do you not realize that you have to SPEND money in order to fix the economy??? Growth is weak, although the third quarter might have grown at 2.8%. Still, that is pretty slow, all the more reason for more fiscal stimulus offset by long-term deficit reduction. I do agree with higher taxes for everyone, via broadening the base and raising rates (via tax reform and ending the Bush tax cuts), but the wealthy ought to be particularly targeted, due to the last 30 years where they prospered while everyone else was mired in the mud.
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
Watch your back, Mr. Speaker. Someone may be after your job.
(HINT: The threat is from inside your own party.)
Da Noid, let me guess: Eric Cantor?
Boehner may want to use the outcome of this election to back that impish Iago Cantor into a corner and take back the knife. I would suggest acting now .. that coward is running scared.
Damn I really do hate that little man, Eric Cantor... and that is about the nicest thing that I can force myself to say about him.
I was actually thinking more along the lines of Michele Bachmann, Louie Gohmert or Steve King.
Time to go after Cantor and McConnell.
I just hope this new bargain will not have "Keystone Pipeline" or any others things attached at the end.
CuongDNguyen... and therein lies the issue... we can't fix what's broken unless we give up something else to do it...
Michelle Bachman can't be speaker of the house because she's way too valuable in her role on the house intelligence committee.
Cantor reminds me of the creepy uncle you have to keep the kids away from at a family gathering.
Bachmann and Intelligence? BBBBRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! I just got a chill and feel creeped out!
All Republicans, house, senate and gubunatorial, need to watch their backs from both the inside and outside. Their unpatriotic attempts to obstruct, sabotage and undermine democracy was a pathetic failure. They have one more chance to put country over party and purge themselves of the fanatical nut jobs...and that includes Ryan and Cantor. If they fail, the electorate will leave them in the catacombs of the past.
If Mitch McConnell would get His lower lip trimmed, I think He would feel better, and probably do better as well. Stepping on it every time He pivots His feet has to be irritating.
No JV, the president is going to have to learn to compromise, he can't cry and pout and stamp his feet like a child if he doesn't get his way all the time. The system works exactly how the Founders intended. He can't continue to attempt to run roughshod over the Repubs, it won't work anymore.
chick binder -- That's funny!
Folks, where are those pesky Repubs that are always buggin the hell out of everybody?
Anybody notice a little breathing room in here?
No smell of socks, no right wing trolls, Romney this, Romney that; what happened folks?
Did MSNBC finally get those trash filters working?...nice
It's a damn Republican State so no one will run against this idiot. It was the one time more people voted for a Democrat than voted for a Republican. You would think the Democratic Party would be smart enough to at least try. How many people in Ohio voted for him? No other name on the ticket he only needed 1 vote. He's a piece of garbage that is now trying to say at least he or they have offered a tax plan. Here we go again with their worthless babble!
Sorry there is no mandate for Obama... but, it appears, he and the Dems are going to act that way.... The Republicans will have to compromise.. no choice... Boehner is simply setting the ground work for the coming talks.... BUT the right will be coalescing and not sleeping...
The left (if the situation was reversed) will not be idle.. neither shall we:
Prediction:... Hillary will resign (sacrificial lamb for Benghazi to quell questions) but the "retirement" will be reported as pre planned.
Easy compromise on budget with revenue increases... It won't make the right happy but both sides will take credit for "reaching across the isle. filibuster on SCOTUS (if any) appointments.
..... I think that once some of President Obama's "plans" take hold they will breed resentment for the left and guarantee a Republican victory in 16.... A variable Tsunami re surge of the Religious right.
He won't be able to blame the next four on Bush It'll be all on the President... (heh)
Despite results last night.... I've never been prouder to be an American where I can speak my mind and worship freely....... for now.
He sounds like he's half in the bag most of the time. Cry and pout you say Rex, lol, Boehner is the poster child.
Any 'deal' the Boehner tables will be a total crock - designed to ensure that no one other than the extreme right would even look at it. Then Boehner can wring his hands, weep, and claim that he really tried to reach across the aisle. Well, when you reach across the aisle and poke your opponent with the sh**ty end of a stick, most intelligent folks would not call that constructive.
Jonny Boehhnurr izz known as thaa "PARTY" of >>> NOOOoooooo & NUTHING ELSE!!! Makes me un-proud to be an American and part of the republican Party!!! <> UGGGH!!! for shore!!! SIMPLETONNNNZ & SIMONZZ! CAP'N - MAY I???? REDDDDDD light? GREEN LIGHT??????? Cap'n may-I?
He better watch that other guy to, you know, the one who thought he was going to be half-da-man!!! Lyin ryan!!
It's amazing you could be on the Presidential ticket, lose, and still win a Congressional seat in your district. Amazing!! I tell ya!!
This time the republicons will be the ones compromising. A little over a year ago Obama gave them 98% of what they wanted and it wasn't enough. So we got our credit rating downgraded.
This time around that fiscal cliff will hurt them far more than it will hurt the Democrats. They know it and are already whining about it.
Call their bluff and toss them over that cliff.
@Flame77_7#2.16: You are wrong loser breath. It's obvious both parties deemed 9 battleground states which would determine the winner and loser of this election. The president took every one of 'em. The republicans are yet squeezing Florida, but the no's say that state belongs to the President, and will soon officially be in His column. That's a mandate by anyone's measure.
Actually, what difference does it make? Both of these @ssholes are cut from the same cloth. You remember how Boehner and Cantor screamed about the raising the debt limit last year, don't you? How they drove the US to the brink of default and caused a downgrade of US credit rating, resulting in a mini-crash of the stock market and a $600 decline in one day!
But how did they vote during the Bush administration?
Seems this whole fiscal responsibility thing is just a response to a Democratic president! That's the best reason I can think of to keep voting Democratic!
EE Engineer................DAMN facts!!!
So many on here misinformed. Obama was willing to compromise offering a budget plan with 4 trillion in cuts and revenue increases on the rich. His plan made $6 in cuts to every dollar of increased taxes. Republicans said no to any tax increase on the rich. That's not compromise. When asked if they'd accept 10 to 1 or 20 to 1 they said no. That's why republicans are accused of being obstructionists including by the credit agency that downgraded us, because they were and are.
Boehner can't control the TPers. For Boehner to be effective, Grover Norquist needs to be ignored and made irrelevant. Cheer up, Boehner, if Norquist withdraws his funding, there will always be more lobbyists to fill the vacuum, hopefully not as toxic as Norquist and the Koch brothers and less fanatical.
There aren't widespread allegations of voter fraud this time. Either Karl Rove is losing his touch or the voters are wise to him. Can we all officially declare Karl Rove a Has-Been?
DMurphy, very good ideas. I agree totally. It is so important for us to come together and work together to solve the serious problems, or we will fail as a nation.
We must increase taxes some, we must. We simply cannot pay off any amount remotely significant on the wars and all the other debt if we do not.
We must work on the ACA and improve the bad parts, such as negative impacts of the insurance mandate on business; we must, or it could cause higher unemployment. We must work to keep the good parts of the ACA and not just repeal the whole bill because something must be done to make life-saving healthcare available to all without bankrupting so many for life as it does now, and the unpaid bills of the uninsured will only continue to inflate US healthcare costs above its already world-record present costs.
We must seriously look at Medicare, realizing how vital and important it is and why it was started was because private insurance had priced most seniors out of the market because they did not want the liability of age-related diseases and conditions, and we must find more sensible solutions to fix Medicare than privatizing it, such as sensible rules, restrictions and regulations and maybe even caps, and higher (but not too high) payroll deductions since the vast majority of Americans really want to keep Medicare, etc.
We must work together and all make some sensible sacrifices needed to help get the deficit under control and the economy more stable while not forgetting our American values, rights and freedoms.
When is BoneHead going to stop burning the American Flag for the TeaReTards, Crazy RightWing Nuts !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The republicans owe NOTHING -- you liberal bottom feeders want your empty suit you got him. I say don't compromise and let it go off the cliff -- if the senate doesn't want to present and pass a budget with congress in accordance with the constitution than fine -- EVERYONE pays and it's about time EVERYONE does. When does the obamabots stop pointing the fingers and start accepting some responsibility! They had the majority the first 2 yrs of this sham of admin and did not EVEN ATTEMPT to pass a budget. So stop acting like everything is everyone else's fault -- grow up and take responsibility instead of the taxpayers $$$ to support your laziness. Patriotic American -- NOT IN YOUR LIFETIME, lapdog!
So if Boehnor thinks the people have given a mandate to break gridlock; why is the Grimm Weeper offering up the same old gridlock?
FORWARD
Because he DOESN'T see Obama's re-election as a mandate - apparently only Republican presidents get mandates after re-election, no matter how slim the margin. His lips are moving but he's not really offering anything in compromise (shudder - another dirty word, like "taxes"); he's hoping to continue to kick the proverbial can you-know-where by agreeing to a tiny something or other in exchange for taking the fiscal cliff agenda off the table until he can figure another way to avoid the inevitable, i.e. the expiration of the Bush tax cuts. I say, let it go - then give "cuts" to the middle class and leave the 36%/39% on the high income folks as in the Clinton era - they survived quite nicely back then.
Let them go off the cliff, then they can break their blood oath with Grover Norquist not to raise taxes.
Obama has the Republicans between a rock and a hard place, this time President Obama will not give in.
Because Boehnor is an obstructionist. He's not at all interested doing what is right for the country, he in only interested in making his Republican party feel good. What makes him qualified for Speaker of the House is really mystifying since he is so lousy at it.
Reid can't even get a budget passed.
Lulu - Reid doesn't even have one in the budget committee. How can one say you broke the budget when there isn't a budget to break?
I see it as simply as this. for the last 30 to 40 years a strong middle class has turned into a weak middle class due to stagnant wages, and overall the middle class is making less, and the outcome of that is less taxes being collected from us middle class folk. Now on the other hand, the wealthy have become mega weathy during the same time period while the taxes on the weathy have been cut again and again. Now they want it all without giving back and want the taxes raised on us middle class. Thats not how it works. They transfered the wealth from the middle class to the upper class, (no class in my opinion) and therefore If they can transfer the wealth from the majority of americans, the tax burden can be shifted their way for all i care. Now im not trying to rag on any ones hard work and success, but the majority of americans as a whole are hard working. They want it all without giving back, oh, that is unless theres a tax deduction for giving back. lol. well come to think of it, its not really funny. If they want us middle class to pay up, well then give us our money back, il be glad to pay extra if i made extra.
lulu98
The Senate does not draft The Budget, it has to be done in the House. If you are referring to the RYAN Budget it added 5 Trillion to the debt by cutting taxes for people like Romney to ZERO. Not even you would sign it into law if you knew what else was in it. The Ryan Budget was a election ploy by republicans to hold something over democrats this year.
bigdogg,
Exactly!
those Bush era tax cuts will expire on Dec 31, 2012. Obama has said that he would be all for tax cuts for those making under $250,000 not for those over that amount. This would be a good faith effort from Congress to do this.
If Congress cannot so this then let them all expire.
Then the New Congress can get to work and fast. because we are holding their feet to the fire.
First reform the filibuster rule in the Senate, so we know by an up or down vote on a real bill .
Begin working five days a week, until they reform the tax code to raise more revenue bringing fairness to groups, cut wasteful spending and reduce the Defense budget.
then stengthen Medicare and SS by the end of 2013 for future generations.
Big agenda, but these folks ,who all just won their elections last night, have to get to work, real hard work for all Americans.
And we all will be watching.
It was a budget passed by the House. Reid left it in his drawer. Vote on it up or down. I am sick of not having the Senate be on record about this.
boner is not really the problem. given the power to do so he would agree to a deal. the problem is the tea party wingnuts who think compromise is a dirty word. the good news is a few more of them lost last night.
to solve this problem both sides have to be willing to give some. you have to look at everything including cuts to programs alot of dems like as well as cuts to the pentagon. but you have to look at revenue because you can't balance the budget without looking at revenue. it's just not posssible.
you also have to look at reforming entitlements. not by doing away with them, the american people made it clear they want them. but by telling people the truth. if you want them you have to pay for them
Those defense contractors in every GOP district won't allow that no matter what orange man says.
Joethelib...
Best review what the constitution defines as the duties of the senate, house and executive branch are. Budgets are expenditures, not revenue and anyone can propose expenditures, even you or I. We as private citizens just need a congresssional sponsor to do so. Then educate yourself on the 1974 budget reform act and related amendments as well.
Hundreds of filibusters and almost all by the GOP. But the number of filibusters by Republicans has escalated, and they have been far more willing to use the tactic than their opponents. Since 2007, the Senate Historical Office has shown, Democrats have had to end Republican filibusters more than 360 times, a historic record. The Senate GOP's unprecedented abuse of the filibuster. Indeed, the number of votes attempting to break Sen. McConnell's use of this tactic more than doubled the minute he took over as minority leader.
They did the same thing when they had the majority in the Senate.
Did you know, for example, that a total of 375 bills that passed the Democratic-majority House have been blocked by Republicans in the Senate?
Time someone backed a garbage truck over Mich McConnell and appointed a monkey to serve out the rest of his term.
And Obama has been stressing about the taxes paid by Cos. profiting and doing BIZ overseas
... I think I read APPLE paid 2% on Overseas Corp Profits of $36 Billion ( yes $36,000,000,000.oo ...
Who Cannot Agree w/ Barack? (well an idiot could I guess)
Ahhhh, DB Akron... nice to hear from you again!
Nate WHO???
Hahahahahaha!
The prez is also required to submit one, law passed in the 20's.
Reid is not following the law, the prez did.
Adopting a budget is not optional in the senate. It is required by law. Under the 1974 Congressional Budget Act, the Senate must move a budget out of the Budget Committee by April 1 of every year and adopt a budget resolution on the floor by April 15.
lulu98
Glad to hear your sick of it. Then maybe you can explain why the republicans have set the all time record for Filibusters in the Senate. That's 244 since Obama took office.
I stand corrected, I'm not afraid to admit when I make a mistake.
Well, joethelib, you will have to ask the Republicans which I am not. I have already stated that the filibuster needs to go. Do not let facts get in your way.
NorthStar,
I agree wholeheartedly. Well stated, well stated!
lulu98
Guess my verbiage wasn't right, it was not an attack on you. I'm glad you understand, I'm just looking for someone to answer about the 244 Filibusters. The Right wing does not know what their own party is doing. All the do is deny the truth.
Look at the Tax Rates when America was going great, without all the current loopholes. What were the Tax Rates when America was number one in everything? Currently we have the Lowest Tax Rates for the past several decades. Why are Low Tax Rates Bad?
Government directly, and indirectly, creates jobs. It is the counterbalance between Crony Capitalism and Wealth Transfer To The 1%. Taxes provide money Government needs to level the playing field by creating jobs, and providing assistance to people, businesses, schools, banks, etc. Government keeps the Cycle of Money going, allowing Demand to remain strong, which increases Production, which creates Growth.
Without Higher Taxation, Infrastructure Improvement, Business Loans, Research and Development, Government Assistance does not take place at the levels needed. Money is not moved back down the Chain to those who create the DEMAND in the system. Growth Stops! Money Stops. It sits in Bonds, Treasuries, and other paper investments that create nothing but paper profits.
The Rich get richer, the 99% get poorer, and the really bad off get the safety nets cut. We stopped redistributing the wealth of the country. The Tax Cuts, The Budget Cuts, The Discontinued Programs, Decreased R&D, Reductions in Education, The Fired Federal Employees... Those, and more, Stopped the Growth. Stopped the flow of money that created the Demand.
That is the flaw in thinking that "Socialism" and "Redistribution" is Bad. Socialism is the Counter Balance to Capitalism. Redistribution is the Counter Balance to Wealth transfer. Without Adequate Government Redistribution and "Socialist" Programs Demand Falls, Production Declines, Growth Stops, America is No Longer Number One In Anything, and Capitalism Fails.
Under Eisenower and Kennedy the top marginal tax rates were 91% and 70% - without all the deductions and credits we have today - and the economy boomed. A person could raise a family on one good income, save for retirement (and often have a real defined benefit pension at the end of your work life) and put your kids through college without indenturing yourself or them for decades. Unions were strong. Wages were good, not just in manufacturing, because the wealthy put their money back into the business in the form of employee wages and benefits and investment in their plants - rather than pay high taxes on their income. And yet they were still very wealthy.
Those days are gone. Sorry.
Perfectly incoherent jibberish.
WE can have them back. We need to now get to work in defeating the tpublicans who refuse to understand what governing really is.
TO: Rob Simpson-898234 who wrote:
Because Republicans never saw a country they didn't want to go to war with.
Bush borrowed the money from China to fund that Lie Called the War in Iraq, AND the War in Afghanistan.
Those loans cost us even more in interest being charged until the loans are paid.
We need the tax revenue to pay for those 2 wars, and that means raising taxes to pay the bills.
Spending cuts are necessary too, but we cannot pay our bills with spending cuts, we need revenue to pay the bills, revenue comes from "taxes".
Forward...
YOu know what happened Floretta,
The kids of those businesses/parents got selfish and wanted more and more and more! Thus, today it doesn't matter if a business does well, pays off bills and maintains all employees for all the top corp about is padding their own pockets.
Could we ever get back to when business was placed above profits----we can only hope! The profits to a few, off shoring of profits and jobs and the refusal to hire for those profits may be smaller is what has destroyed our finances, jobs and ways of life.
One day the Corp tops will have thier money and things, but nothing else if such greed continues. The top have forgotten that Greed has destroyed many civilizations to date and will ultimately destroy them.
As long as you are ready to pay more. No? Oh that's right, let someone else pay more but don't increase my taxes. That's been the mantra of hypocrite Democrats for years. Why doesn't Buffet, Gates & Oprah volunteer to give the federal government a few billion of their money? Better yet, Mr. Obama has $11 million stashed away in government bonds. I think he should set an example and donate that money to the government and live off $50,000 per year. Oh that's right, Michelle wouldn't be able to buy that new Gucci dress for $10,000 if he did that. Seriously people - WAKE THE F*@K UP!
From 1940-1982 our top tax rate was 90%-70%. Worker's wages went stangant back in the 60's when the top tax rate was dropped to 70% from 90%. Small businesses has been on the decline ever since the top tax rate was reduced down from 70%. Taxes are like friction and play a critical role. A 90% top tax rate limits income/wealth to a maximum of about 100 to 1 ratios. Real world conditions would be less since that is with one person having the majority of the money.
Low top tax rates also encourage people to lie, cheat, steal, etc. since they get rewarded for it and get to keep the money. If they had to pay it in taxes then people would be less likely to cut corners. We would not need millions of laws to regulate people when a high top tax rate takes the incentive out of harming/preying on society.
High top tax rates encourage people to pay their workers more since they cannot keep as much as they want. If there is a choice between paying the government and paying their employees, they will pay their workers more instead or they will invest that money back into the company WITHOUT needing to be rewarded for it. They already were rewarded in the first place. They have way more then 10 times what others have.
Capital Gains is the biggest loophole there is and needs to be increased too. 80% or more of the top 1%'s income comes from investments that can only be taxed by capital gains. Capital gains need to be 35% or more.
It needs to be harder to make even more money, the more money you already possess. If it becomes easier and easier to make more and more money, a condition called "exponential runaway" occurs, which the system CANNOT ever supply for a duration of time. There is not enough money and more has to be printed to meet the exponential demand. There is no way for people to make exponentially more and more money. Each time we print MORE money what effect does that have on the money already in circulation? Why are you morons chasing something you will never catch? Why do you chase after your tails, wind, etc. like some stupid animal?
The universe will tax you up to 100% depending on how fast or how big you try to become. Each time you double your velocity the universe DEMANDS four times the power (tax) in order to do it. There is an exponential increase in the amount of power required. Why do you not complain to God or who ever designed the universe about friction? Maybe you are not as smart as you think you are, should STFU, and pay your taxes.
Gridlock away for two years. If that is what it takes to get rid of your sorry a$$es then so be it. It would be better to rip off that old band-aid fast, but as long as we get rid of it. Good luck even having a party in two years if you go down the gridlock route. How much are you willing to waste trying to get another puppet elected? Just pay your f***ing taxes, it is not that hard.
Rich, you have the typical extremist view. There's a dollar under that rock over there, go get it Rich. By the way don't crawl back out from under it either.
Floretta,
Kennedy inherited a recession from the Eisenhower years, who inherited stagnation from the Truman years. Kennedy proposed, and pushed through the tax cut from 90 to 70%. The economic "boom" was after that.
Then in 1968 LBJ pushed through the "great society" which was a huge spending increase and increase in taxes. That dropped us into the Nixon stagnation that spurred inflation not to mention the first clean air and water act. Nixon agreed with congress to do wage and price controls. Those caused further stagnation and inflation through out the Ford years.
Ford was such a genius on inflation he tried a psych-ops operation called "Win" (Whip Inflation Now) campaign.
Then, there was Carter. Carter passed more environmental regulations, more tax increases and 5 economics plans during his 4 years. None of it worked and the results were double digit inflation, double digit interest rates, and double digit unemployment.
The, Reagan. Cuts taxes, increases military spending and fails to gain spending cuts to match the tax cuts. The good news is that the inflation disappeared, and during his tenor 20 million jobs were created in 6 years.
What do we have? 4.5 million in 4 years.
You know what, I say to Bohner & company. Let them raise taxes! Let them do whatever they please! They don't want to listen any how because they have so many better answers. US THEM, GO!
So Tired, you want to tax grandma's mutual fund capital gains that she uses to live on at 35%?
How much is poor Grandma making per year there Lulu?
A lot less now, and then add the tax.
Over the last month, I have put at least fifty people on ignore. I just realized that lulu98 is the only one that is still posting today. I'm sorry lulu98, maybe I was wrong to judge you as a paid blogger troll. I'd take you off ignore now that I see that you are still posting today, but I really do stink at computer literacy. Please accept my apology lulu98.
Bring back Eisenhower's tax rates and tax code.
Rob, I agree. When the Bush Tax cuts came, the gap between the wealthy and middle class got wider. I got a daily cup of coffee from the government with my tax cut. I would gladly give my cup of coffee back to the government if I knew it would get us back on our feet again. And the government does create jobs. When they shut the Air National Guard base down in our county, the community suffered. They relied on the people in the military to eat lunch out, and shop, etc. We have to get the balance back. So what do we need to do and how do we get our Representatives to work on it? It's We the people, not Me the people. And DB - I believe that Reagan and Bush Senior raised taxes.
Grandma is probably making something. Do you think she should spend what she earned as an invested or is it you think the government should take it? If she sells her house to go into assisted living, should the government take her earnings on the property she may have bought 40 years ago.
What you conveniently ignore is that Reagan also damned near doubled the national debt during his 8 years - an increase of 189%!! (sound familiar? George W. Bush repeated that feat! He went from $5.7T in national debt to $11.9t in 8 years - what is it with Republicans?) Now, did the tax cuts he implemented cause the creation of jobs? Or was it the increased amount of cash he pumped into the economy with deficit spending? That's just about what you would predict with Keynesian economics.
And I really don't know where you get your numbers! Wikipedia shows an increase of slightly more than 15 million jobs during his two terms. This is compiled from data from the BLS.
That, my friend is absolutely wrong!
April 2012 marks the 26th straight month of gains in private-sector employment, for a total of 4.2 million private-sector jobs.
When Obama took office, unemployment was at 7.8% and rising faster than Halliburton's profits! It took more than 2 years to get that under control and eliminate the Bush hangover from the economy. Once that was done, the country created more than 4 million jobs in a little more than 2 years! You can't turn the economy around that quickly and Bush had built up a lot of momentum with stupid policies!
Boehner needs his drunken ass kicked off the fiscal cliff with Senile Poster Boy Mitch McConnell and Worm Boy Eric Cantor
Maybe big eared, purple lipped, stutter boy will join them.
Two examples of my way or the highway. And the name calling is even worse. Any real ideas as to how to fix things?
I actually have lots of ideas, but problem is they all call for a very modest tax reform. That reform is NOT cutting taxes, but raising them for those who decide to take profits off the table instead of investing not only for their future but the country's future. That means a tightening of capital gains taxes rules.
Oh,wilman,
I can see by your comments you are a truly deep thinker!Remember jealousy is a very ugly emotion.Maybe that queer bait Ryan can give it another try in 2016 and get his ass whooped again,what a mamas boy he is.
Rednawt.... interested in learning more. What would you do about my capital gains which are primarily from mutual funds. Up to now, they have rolled over to buy more units, but as we retire we might need some of that to live on. Do you differentiate short and long term gains? What about selling a house. If you are downsizing, you might not roll that into a new property. We have obviously been paying the current types of taxes on capital gains.
I have a real idea on how to fix things Lulu... Just have the F.B.I. inform them (House Republican obstructionists) privately that they can be charged with treason and tried for it at any given moment due to the plethora of evidence they felt bold enough to keep in plain sight. Treasonous activity against America and all her citizenry and hate crimes against its duly elected leader... And if they do anything but cry and cooperate, arrest the treasonous whores and prepare them for their day in court. Jury trials, or Military tribunals, take your pick. You might want to stay away from the military route though because one of their last obstructions was directly in contradiction to the welfare of the soldiers they sent off to war.
If you think that sounds crazy or extreme or both... Consider the fact that no one in custody at Guantanamo Bay has done anywhere near the intentional damage to America as any one of these plotting, traitorous bastards.
Keeping Obama from ruining what is left of the U.S. economy is not treason, it is common sense.
Lulu, I will be happy to expand.
Your retirement income, no matter where it would come from would be tax exempt up to, I don't know, pick a number...$75,000..$100,000? Perhaps your gains would have to be taxed at the current rate but no higher. This would be for the actual numbers crunchers to figure out. When one retires, they deserve to retire with dignity and not have to choose between a meal or a pill and they should be able to travel which is good for society as a whole as their money would be spent in the economy.
Sell your house. Your primary residence. No taxes.
Raise capital gains taxes on those who earn their money on those types of income to 30%. They will still have all the normal deductions AND can carry forward losses. If they don't want to pay the higher tax, they can roll their gains and profits back into their businesses. A lot of capital gains are made from paper trading. The only sweat of the brow they have is if they might lose on a bet. Business owners rolling profits and gains back into their businesses would grow exponentially. Understanding expansion might not be an option at any given time, perhaps they could get an immediate tax refund when it is time to expand. Up until now, with capital gains tax being so low, they have little incentive to re-invest so they use it to build mighty homes costing millions to 10's of millions. That helps carpenters I suppose, but little else.
So, for the middle class, exempt, since most of their money would be spent in the economy. For the wealthy they would have a choice.
The economy was great when taxes were much higher than they are now on the top 10% or so. Even the middle class could live well when their taxes were higher. The president is only asking for the Bush era tax cuts on those making over $250,000 to end. They would still enjoy the Bush era tax cuts up to that. I would actually go a bit further, but I guess baby steps is better than no steps at all.
There are other tax and revenue generating ideas that could be good. To do nothing but cut spending would have devastating consequences on the economy.
Ok, I find nothing here to complain about. Maybe some consideration for cost of living. Maryland versus Tennessee. Do you think the House or Senate is smart enough to follow your suggestions?
The Senate is, but not the House.
Let's go a step further - China is a communist country. Mitt Romney made much of his fortune eliminating American jobs and creating jobs in China.
All of the terrorists in Guantanamo have not done as much to strengthen communism and weaken the US as Mitt Romney. Who is the real enemy?
Nothing will change, there is no getting past the egotistical arrogance of republicans in Congress.
Even after getting knocked out. drug around and stomped on, republicans still believe their strategy of inflicting suffering upon the middle class and poor Americans will bring victory........Stupid is, as stupid does
Thank you lulu. See everyone? A moderate democrat and a moderate republican can find common ground. I am only assuming you are a moderate republican Lulu by reading some of your posts here. So, yes. Consideration of geography (expensive state, less expensive states) could be done simply by addressing where the tax exempt part is. The more money we can keep in the pockets of spenders is what is going to create jobs. Create demand, jobs follow.
My ideas I laid out here is in just one area. There are so many more tax areas that we can reform that would even benefit the super wealthy. Oh, I forgot to mention, the exemptions like the first 75 or 100k would apply to everyone. But then they could lower payroll taxes, SS and Medicare to something like 2% employer and 2% employee contribution but to remove the ceiling and extend it to all income. The same consideration would still apply to capital gains though. I ran some numbers awhile back and it looked like after lowering the payroll tax and extending the ceiling and adding large capital gains in the mix it wouldn't cost anyone more than now for anyone making under $10 million. This would accomplish three very big things. First it would extend the life of the SS trust fund to forever. Whatever the agreed rate would be, that would be looked at every two years to make sure it is adequate. If it isn't, they could raise it a fraction, if it is generating too much, it could be lowered. Next, it would save industry and business, all business that make payroll about 5% on payroll they could use to expand with. The worker would have about 5% more they could spend on anything creating more demand. Also, it would take the pressure off the fact the trust fund has to be paid back after the surplus that is there now is depleted. I believe that is somewhere around 2 trillion of our 16 trillion debt.
The big problem though is to get our representatives to finally work together on both sides of the isle and across the isle. Any thoughts Lulu?
Actually an independent any more. Socially liberal, fiscally conservative. I really do think you have some important ideas in your writings that should get more attention. I especially agree that the ceiling needs to go on SS and that would impact us but it only makes sense. We need simplification in our tax rules so they cannot be convoluted back into the mess we have.
lulu, after I wrote my ideas down here for you, I thought of another reason why the sale of a primary residence should be exempt of capital gains tax, or any tax for that matter. And I would extend that exemption to the sale of all property. The reason being is that taxes are paid every year on the property and the value appreciation of that property. I know that all goes to local and capital gains goes to the federal and states, but not tying people to those taxes, especially in businesses could help people expand (or downsize as needed) saving or expanding employment opportunities which should add to revenues. The tax code has been used for building incentives for growth, but you are correct that the code needs to be sensibly reformed taking in consideration 100% of the population. Sometimes tax cuts make perfect sense, sometime tax increases are needed but tax increases and cuts should always come with incentives for the betterment of the economy as a whole and not for greed. Of course, I don't pretend to know every in or out of my very basic idea but they could be starting points to build on.
Thank you for the great and open conversation. My hope is people here can see how much more productive it is like this instead of all the vicious name calling that goes on. I know I at times fall for this, but never with anywheres near as much venom. Sometimes a gentle pushback is needed.
Boehnor looks like he had a plate of crow for lunch. Get together and work this out for the American people- it is what you were hired to do. Boneheads!
Boehner's seat, his Washington pad, and the eighteen year old eye candy that visit his apartment twice a week are all paid for by US defense contractors. Do you expect him to do ANYTHING for the American people?
jonny eeeats crow every time he opens his mouff. Jus comes NATURALLY to heem!
The President and Congress will agree to extend the so called "Bush tax cuts" for a period of 6 months to a year. There will also be an extension of the 2% payroll tax for 6 months to a year.
In the mean time the Congress will have to completely revise the tax codes and eliminate subsidies, loopholes and no longer necessary deductions. All I have heard from Obama and the Democrats is raise taxes on the 1%, not one word on revising the current outdated tax code.
Further, the GAO should audit every government program and agency and Congress should address those audits to eliminate waste, fraud and duplication of programs. These audits could save the taxpayers billions of dollars annually.
There should be a moratorium on all new programs and spending until the audits are completed, it shouldn't take more than 6 months. I would recommend the GAO hire outside agencies, if necessary, to complete the audits.
Congratulations to President Obama and his campaign. I just hope Obama doesn't think he got some kind of a mandate, because there isn't one. We have basically the same government make up we had before the election.
Incorrect. Several options have been proposed, and have all been shelved by the GOP. One example is subsidies for big oil. Another is defense cuts.
And yes, there was a mandate. The GOPTP would have us believe they were poised to take the presidency and the Senate - they did neither. That is a mandate.
Romney would have extended the Bush Tax Cuts while he designed the appropriate tax system. Obama will not negotiate with Boehner and we could see a complete sunset as we ride over the fiscal cliff.
Regardless I am certain the Social Security tax holiday is over, and although that hurts I think both Dems and GOP would agree it is necessary.
Boehner would do himself a favor if he could get his t-party co-horts to work WITH the administration instead of against. They failed to make Obama a one termer. The dems hold the senate and the presidency. The house can no longer hold up progress. They will lose in 2014 if they do.
Red - You are incorrect, Obama might have mentioned oil subsidies, but he did not mention all subsidies or even address closing loopholes. The democrats controlled the House for Obama's first two years, and never made one attempt to revise any tax codes. Remember tax laws originate in the House, and the House doesn't have a filibuster rule.
I have said many times that I am not opposed to revenue increases (taxes) but not until the government brings spending under control and the cut the current waste, fraud and duplication in government programs.
Sfcret. What constitutes a mandate for you guys? Historically a president who presides over the economic reality we have had, loses reelection. It spite of all the fear and hate generated by the right, he still won. Remarkable. Sorry your guy lost for you... just a reflection of how disconnected from reality the right is. And now Boner. "We don't like this president and we're not playing ball with him". If they don't, Americans will make your party irrelevant and ultimately extinct. You need to get with it.
You want to cut oil subsidies? Ok, and while you are at it, cut the ones to solar and wind also. Since they hmmmmm $2.8 billion a year to oil vs $90 bil to solar and wind?
And while you are at it, quit making it so easy to get food stamps and welfare. Everyone knows there is a huge % taking advantage of how easy it is. I don't give a @!$%# if you are black/white or purple with frickin pink polka dots... get off your lazy a$$es and get a job. They are out there. I see help wanted signs daily. Oh yeah but not at my evil nasty gun shop because I need to save my money for when all the tax hikes kick in. You know, those ones <obama care hidden taxes, go look them up, I can pinpoint one... 20 bil being passed on to ppl making over $200k a year.> you guys claim will only effect the 1%.... wrong again, they will effect every class and it's gonna hurt.
Robert - A mandate, IMO, would have been Obama winning by a wider margin and the voters also voted in a Democratic controlled House. It appears to me that when the voters votes for a split government they are not handing one party or the other a mandate.
Basically Obama won by barely 100,000 votes in 3 states and if Florida goes to Obama in 4 states with less than 330,000 votes.
Although the democrats gained a couple of seats in both the house and senate that is more of a mandate for more of the last 2 years.
The electorate really needed to give complete control to one party or another, because all that is going to happen if political football and "gotcha" attempts by both parties.
Here's the real joke. 54% of the voters want changes to the ACA. Your going to see nothing from either of these two sides other than shuck and jive.
Actually, we don't know that there is a "fiscal cliff."
The end of the tax cuts is not such a bad thing. Everyone complains about the deficit, but no one seems to want to do anything about it. Returning to the Clinton era tax rates seems to be a step in the right direction.
Likewise with the sequestration. Everyone wants spending cuts, but no one wants to make them. This requires spending cuts to take place.
IMO, let the cuts take place and let the GOP, which is in charge of making budgets in the House, justify each and every dollar increased and pay for each and every dollar of spending increase with a revenue increase or a spending reduction.
sfcret
You are correct. There is no mandate here. And even though I am a socially liberal Republican I don't want either party controlling the House, Senate and White house. That never works because neither party has a monopoly on stupidity. This country works best when both parties have power and have to compromise.
Mandate. Message. Directive. Warning.
It doesn't matter what you call it, the point is that the obstructionists should be shaking in their boots right now. Hundreds of millions in dark advertising couldn't buy the American people.
God bless America!
The fiscal cliff will hurt the republicons badly since it is their supporters, the Military/Industrial Complex, who will be hurt the most.
Push them over the cliff!
I agree with you! You know Republicans are not really going to cooperate at all. So, maybe the best tactic is... do nothing! Just let the tax cuts expire! That will automatically trim $500B a year from the deficit. The defict decreases, Republicans can't claim credit and the national debt doesn't increase nearly as much. Aside from all the doomsayers (most of whom are Republican - how much do we trust that?) what's the downside? Republicans should rejoice! They all say they are for reducing the debt, don't they?
Now, if Republicans don't really like that idea, then I suggest they come to the bargaining table in good faith - something they haven't managed to do in the last 2 years!
Can we save the day by doing away with Congress? What a waste of taxpayer dollars!
The Republicans can no longer focus on making Obama a one term President now that the nation has spoken.
If they continue down the obstructionist path, they will pay for it in 2 years...
Yes whatever Obama wants.... He has four more years to whine about Bush....
You know what, whether you like it or not, must be a fan of Georgies, Bush pretty well @!$%#ed this country up and it takes time to undue 8 years of @!$%#ed up, so either get on board with everyone trying to help or get the hell out of the way and take your nastiness with you. We don't want it here ANYMORE! We are sick and tired of you people that were forced upon us because FOX threw your disgusting asses off their site by shutting down their comments forum. So, behave yourself or I will personally and happily play bitch and do my very best to flag and remove your comments and get any of you suspended and/or banned as much and as often as I can. I don't care who you reincarnate as. I will find you.
wilman, in contrast to whatever the republican house wants? Get your party to work honestly with the White-house and senate or lose in 2014.
@wilman idiot. The president doesn't have to whine about bush. Every American with more than two brain cells (that would exclude you of course), knows the smirking chimp idiot from texazz is the moron who accelerated the destruction in this country. He started bogus wars, caused the housing crash, and let the FED start printing money out of thin air as fast as they wanted. dumbya bush will always be known as the dumbest president ever, and the idiot who brought america to her knees. dumbya bush was the weapon of mass destruction. mystery solved.
Wilman - make no mistake about it - it was folks with your attitude that lost the election for your party last night. Keep spouting your stupidity. We are counting on it, for 2014.
I do think it is time that people quit bashing the President and bashing each other. It won't solve anything. The election is over, and we need to move this country forward. In four years, we will have a new President. So for those that do not like the idea that he has another 4 years, get over it. Whining will get you no where. And on the bright side, you will not need to bitch and moan to get him out in 4 years. He will be out. So what is the point? Seriously? Unless you are just one of those that likes to bitch and moan.
And let us not forget - 13 Republican Senators are up for re-election in 2014. Congress already has single-digit approval rating. How much more do you think the American voters will take before they vote all their asses out?
According to polls 58% of Americans don't blame Obama for our poor economy they blame Bush. Obama has gone a long way toward correcting the mess Bush left him but has done well considering. Right wingers can try to claim Obama was responsible for the economy on day one but couldn't sell it to most of us. We're not stupid enough to believe anyone could turn around an economy losing 800,000 jobs a month into gaining 200,000 a month in one year. He's on the right track. Romney's plan would have taken us back.
It's called compromise.... something Harry Reid has already shown us he is unwilling to participate in. Like it or not, Republicans are right, we cannot continue to raise taxes on the tax base that provides the majority of our job growth. We are all willing to let them go up a little, provided Big Government cuts back and quits giving all our money to 'entitlement' programs. I.E. Food stamps and welfare.
Alaska, you gonna come after me too for not agreeing that Obama was our best choice?
/lesigh, as usual people such as yourself miss the point entirely. Your party has missed the point for a very long time. We on this site invite discussions from all people, no matter their party affiliation. What we are sick and tired of is extreme right wingers coming onto this site and spewing their hatred and their ignorance and their lies. I enjoy a thought provoking discussion on the economy, jobs, women's health issues, immigration reform, etc. What I cannot stand is people coming on here with absolutely nothing of substance to add to the conversation, such as folks like wilman, who is apparently a low information participant. For anyone to try and discount or discard the @!$%# storm that Bush left this country in is in very deep denial and obviously has not followed along in the last, well, 12 years really. None of us are saying that we are drop dead thrilled with the way things stand today, but if people would really stop and open their eyes and do some honest research and get educated, instead of relying on information spoon fed to them by the likes of Hannity, Limbaugh, Norquist, Rove, O'Reilly......the list is too long. I never watch Fox, but over the last two days I have made myself watch and listen. It is amazing to hear some of the things that they say that make it directly to the comment section of this site.
One last comment to you lesigh. Whether or not you agree with me or anyone else that Obama was our best choice is neither here nor there now. President Obama has been re-elected and it is up to all of us to make sure that BOTH parties come together and work together. The obstructionism that has been going on in Congress must stop. Do you agree with me on that?
Peace.
I apologize for such a late response, you likely won't even see it.
I do agree that both parties need to come together on this. I notice you failed to address the true focus of my post. Harry Reid has proven to be as obstructive to e process as Boehner(sp?) has been. This country cannot afford a continue to unfettered spending, growth of the government that is already too far rooted in our lives. Take NY, who the hell does that governor think he is telling me I can't drink a soda over 16 ounces? Yes, I can drink in my own home untilI fall over from the sugar caffeine high but guess what, that's my decision, not yours. It's big daddy government telling me how I 'should' be taking care of myself and that simply doesn't work for me.
As long as Reid and the democrats keep spewing their crap about more taxes on the rich without reducing spending, I hope they block every attempt.
The Dems and GOP have to negotiate or we will go over the fiscal cliff. Clinton knew how to negotiate. Obama has demonstrated his inability to do so. He ran the most divisive administration ever. Now that Obama is done campaigning forever (that is essentially his major skill) he will now have to lead. In a world where moderates are frowned upon, the forward task is daunting. Good luck everyone. And thank you for dropping my net worth by 2.5% today, although Draghi deserves some of the credit.
Draghi was certainly part of that but as Jim Cramer pointed out today, another reason was all the Romney supporters, sure he was going to win, bought heavily in areas they expected to benefit with a Romney presidency, then dumped everything when Obama won again and the real possibility of the fiscal cliff returned to the fore.
The republicans need to move to the center and do so quickly if they intend to remain a political equal to the democrats. The country is changing and the republican base will shrink everyday while the democrat base will increase everyday until the next election. The republican strategy to refuse to govern and blame the president for the gridlock obviously did not work. They can either do the job they were elected to do our they will become less relevant in American politics.
I love how Republicans call Obama a divisive president, when it's the Republicans who say to to anything and everything - even if it was originally their idea. Refuse to work with him, then say he refuses to work with you.
WinWin, get a copy of Woodward's book. Obama and his crew never tried to work across the aisle.
lulu98
You are correct. Obama has consistently sat on the left even during his senate days (and they were only days).
winwin
You have heard to many campaign ads. Also, read Ron Suskind's Confidence Men book.
The only thing that will bring these 2 parties together is a series of emergencies. Otherwise this divisive president, the same president who was the most liberal voting senator for the full 18 months he served, will sit firmly on the left and nothing will get done. Maybe he can open the door to the GOP, not the way he crafted the Obamacare plan behind closed doors with no GOP input.
The Republicans still control the House by a decisive margin, and will likely regain power in the other areas of government as the public which is so focused on the economy, realizes how this administration has failed them. No President has presided over a recovery (the Recession ended in 2009) so miserably and convinced the public other wise.
Also, read the book The Osama Bin Laden Files. You will find in the 19th declassified letter that OBL wrote he wanted Joe Biden to take over the presidency because he knew he was unprepared.
The Obama/Biden ticket is an unqualified pair, but I do hope they can succeed.
"Obama has demonstrated his inability to do so. He ran the most divisive administration ever."
Totally false. You should try paying attention.
Bob
So how many GOPer's were part of drafting Obamacare?
The polarization that exists today in government is at an all time high and it began when Obama, who as I said, was THE MOST liberal voting Senator for the 18 months he served, took office. The President doesn't have a huge amount of power, but he, more than anyone, sets the tone for compromise. Bill Clinton knew how to do it. But then again, the book "The Amateur" is about OBama and the name the amateur, was coined by Bill Clinton. Hillary would have been a much better candidate, she had leadership and experience. Notice how quickly her and Geitner exited.
My oh my Lar....what a pile of BS.
If hyperbole were counted as votes your party couldn't lose an election.
Republicans will never win a national election as long as the tea party tail wags the Republican dog. Extremists never flourish in this nation and the extreme right is pulling the GOP over their own cliff.
But keep on letting the right-wing whackos pick your Presidential nominee. When the poor sucker has to flip flop all the way through the general election campaign the electotate will run from him.
We are a nation of moderates. The wind-bags make all the noise. The smart wind-bags never run for office. They know A.M. radio and Foxnews pays their ilk better....and the lemmings are easy marks.
That's right, Kevin. Moderates. Not left wing and not right wing. Is Obama going to focus on us?
Kevin
When you say we are a nation of moderates you have given the world a sense of how little you really know. This government's biggest problem is polarization and neither party has a monopoly on that. The moderates are outcasts. Lieberman was invited to neither convention. I suggest you read and stop watching commercials.
The Tea Party is extreme, but they have a legitimate agenda. Meanwhile, this Administration had sided with OWS. Wow. Talk about extremeists with no mission.
Lulu is a moderate... And Obama has a "crew"... And Woodward is still informative... So long as the old has-been makes the guy with the "crew" look "bad-ish" to sell books... I wonder if Romney would have had a "crew"?
lulu, I hope both parties will focus on us in the middle class and those who need a hand up.
"Obama has demonstrated his inability to do so. He ran the most divisive administration ever."
Bob - I love how you Baggers create a problem, and then try to blame the other guy.
O&Joe (The nation spoke)
Chick.... Woodward is clearly a Democrat from Washington Post. you imagine things. Crew is not a derogatory term. In fact, I was proud of being a crew member from my days at the Vanguard Group. We all were. You seem to be a typical far left winger who thinks every one else is stupid.
GT
Bob actually quoted me and then disagreed with me. So he agreed with you.
You have it backwards, but then again, you have everything backwards. You fell for the TV ads. Congratulations. Don't read any books, you may discover what you don't know.
Have a good morning (that means night)
You have it backwards, but then again, you have everything backwards
Lar - I get it...Romney won the election! LOL
GT
ya got me
good one
Oh, bullcrap! Obama bent over backwards! But, convinced they could influence this election by making Obama look bad, Republicans wouldn't accept anything from Obama.
Well, guess what... it didn't work! Right now, Congress has single-digit approval ratings and most of the blame centers on Republicans. How do you think the voting public will react after another 2 years of do-nothing politics?
I do not envy Boehner the task of directing compromise in the House...he couldn't even keep them from sabotaging our credit rating. I also wonder if the Senate filibustering will cease. I wonder if this Congress will get busy and confirm the back log of nominations they have held up. This is the biggest 'do-nothing' Congress in history, but they are going to have to come up with needed legislation that the President will sign. If they refuse to do that, they are worse than useless.
There are plans to change the filibuster rules. Jeff Merkley, junior senator from Oregon, has a plan to limit filibustering to certain conditions:
Merkley is pushing an effort in the Senate for a "talking filibuster," which would require a filibustering member or members to actually be on the floor of the Senate in order for the filibuster to continue.
He noted when Lyndon Johnson was majority leader of the Senate in the '50s, he had to deal with one lone filibuster. The current majority leader, Sen. Harry Reid of Nevada, has faced 374 filibusters, Merkley said.
"It's been used on every bill to paralyze the Senate and all it takes is one (senator) to do it."
Filibustering needs to go as well as not bringing various bills to an up or down vote. And no bill should be over a couple of pages. These huge bills always lead to unintended consequences.
Whatever happened to the Simpson-Bowles deal? If it was put off to let us get out of the hole a little first, then lets start putting it in place. I think Obama didn't endorse it dur to repubs being against ANYTHING the president was for. That has to stop, especially if the congress wants to ever get a better approval rating than 11 percent. Stop putting up walls...and take them down...work together!!!
i got an ideal: if you file a paper return you are charged a fee to process the return. that should raise a little bit of money and move more people to filing on-line.
We should also eliminate free postage and printing to congressmen. also all legislation has to be electronic instead of printed. example budgets proposals.
Can you pay your taxes with food stamps ?? Watch Bonher roll over and sell out his party remember money talks and b/s walks !
Can you pay your taxes when you don't have a job? Aha! That was the worst part of the George W. Bush administration! By eliminating all those jobs, he eliminated tax revenue!
There you have it! The single biggest cause of our current deficit spending!
Moron!
Both sides BETTER try & work something out. When the Old People start missing their checks , it will be both sides fault. Younger people can fend for themselves but if we start letting our old people go by the wayside because some are to lazy to work, we are really in sad shape. Both sides need to suck it up & get rid of the my way or the highway additudes.
KDH, aha, ha, ha!!! THEY donn'a givv'aah shytt bout yu nor me!!! @!$%#ZZ or elephantoss, >>> it jus don make NOOOOooooo difference to them. ONLY VIP thing to them izz/will-be GREEEENBAKKKKZ under thaa TABLE intooooo theirrrrr POCKKKKETTTZ!!!
Boehner needs a Twelve Step Program, McConnell a Nursing Home, and Cantor needs to quit with the Naa Naa Nana Boo Boo crap and grow some balls.
tl, man yu shore gott thaa, ... RIGHT ON QUE!!!
Hey McConnell, how did that "Our number one goal is to make President Obama a 1 term President" work out for you? Now get your a$$ to work for America and not the Republican Party. How many filibusters have the Republicans instituted in the last year?
You nailed it. Obviously it didn't work out for them.
So on a positive note - how about Congress start working with the President to turn this boat around and then everyone can take credit for it. Ok? Ready? Go!
Read the whole McConnell quote.
Why would they start now?
lulu
That was the only part of McConnell's quote that made the campaign advertisements......and they fell for it.
Maybe Obama should start working with the Republicans, instead of insisting on his own way all the time. Remember how he locked them completely out of the health care bill negotiations.
SHhhhhh, careful or yu will wake-up old RIP-VAN-WINKLE!!!!
There is no need to work with the republicons now. The fiscal cliff is their baby and will hurt them far worse than it will hurt the Democrats. That is why the republicons are already crying about it.
You are right!
If I was in Obama's position right now, I would do.... NOTHING!
Let all the chickens come home to roost! Obama doesn't care! He can't be elected for a third term. Democrats can't be blamed for letting the laws that Republicans passed take their course.
Maybe, just maybe, Republicans will come to their senses and actually come to the bargaining table in good faith. But I doubt it! They sure seem to be bent on suicide!
They were not locked out of negotiation, he ask them to participate. invited them all to the white house to discuss obama care and they want no part of it. Then when it went ahead without them then they started complaining about being shutout to get sympathy for the midterm elections and it worked. They made it look as if the autocratic Obama was going wild and had to be stopped.
Single,
You are correct. I was watching CSPAN for some of the opening committes when Pelosi was holding an open meeting at which 4 republicans were to attend...she held the meeting in delay had staffers cal the republicans and finally after waiting for over 90 mins started the meeting.
Anyone who says the republicans were shut out are just wrong.
oh well just more @!$%# from the party of NO when are we going to learn next election the republican party will be gone and mr boner along with it
I'm glad you trolls posting here aren't working on breaking the gridlock--nothing would ever get done. While I'm not by any means confident these bozos can come to any agreement whatsoever, I'm encouraged by the Republican olive branch regarding taxes. I also see that Harry Reid has said he's ready to talk. Encouraging.
Um ... more like an olive leaf than branch, lol.
It's all a show . . .a put on. Those mealy mouthed bastards are going to dig their heels in and obstruct. They will be harder and meaner. Bachman-Ryan overdrive! 2014 - shut them down! AND while we are at it . . . those 1600 Evangelical preachers who endorsed Romney from their pulpits . . .take away their non-profit status. It ain't about freedom of religion . . . its about using your tax free status for political gain . . .sue them . . tax them and nail them along with Ralph Reed and Karl Rove.
Wasn't Reid all for talking those last four years? Talking that is, not listening!
Sorry John Boehner and Mitch McConnell you have lost and the American people will not stand for your obstructionist BS any longer. That is why we just had an election.
No, actually they still retain the House in case you haven't looked lately. And they will continue to obstruct Obummers wacky and risky schemes.
rex, >>> with 932 "END RUNSSS" (right around the Congress and Senate) OBEE NOSE full well he can/will/is gonna do athousand more end runs untillllll BONeeHEDD and M'O-Cunnell are fast asleep of boreduummmmat the wheel.
You were re-elected to tow the line on taxes not to throw us under the bus.
The country voted again for obama since he said he would do things he promised but didnt do during his first four years. obama and the takers want the rich to pay more and they want redistribution. I say let us all go off the fiscal cliff. Bring on the depression and socialization. Lets all become takers.
You don't have to worry. The rich dirtbags have taken us to the edge of the cliff. There is no turning back. If America had taken the rich off welfare years ago, instead of padding their pockets, (think ronald reagan and the two idiot bushes) then we would be much more solid right now. But the rich are selfish, greedy and had to have it all. Hope the rich are happy since they sunk this once great nation. Greedy pond scum.
No alex, it's all those takers of the taxpayers money that have keep demanding all the "free stuff", that has got us here.
Oh, you mean like the Oil Companies demanding their annual subsidies? Like Agribusiness demanding their farm subsidies?
Ah...corporate welfare...I agree.
27 red states take more money from the government than they pay in taxes.
5 blue states take more than they pay.
The real takers are you red state welfare queens.
I'm glad Obama won, I'm glad he will go ahead and put a huge tax burden on all the people he considers wealthy so they all can take their money and put it outside the United States. Then, what's left here is not going to be enough to pay for all his pet projects unless, of course, all his die-hard supporters step up to the plate. Somehow I think they're going to be pretty B 0 ed about having to foot the bills themselves.
Please don't let the door hit you in the azz on the way out, I mean its not like we the middle class don't already make up for less tax return for those that 'already' have millions offshore. And we'll be watching closely as to how the feds will go after those that did not take the IRS amnesty offer.
Call their bluff. Any intellectual properties can certainly be reverse-engineered and hopefully we can create new 'job creators'...one's with moral and ethical business models (cause these will have the benefit of history on their side).
What silliness. They have paid the proper taxes, the IRS keeps a very close eye on these investments, but I wouldn't expect you to know that.
They already have all their money outside the US - Romney does!
annee, ... wha-fo dus yuse meen den? Dus we awhll hafftaah giv'um bakk ou cell phone to OBeeeee k'nobee den???
Stock market didn't take too kindly to his win, did it?
I'm proud of California today. We bucked the trend, thought for ourselves, and passed propositions that temporarily raised income taxes on the wealthiest, to help balance the budget; voted to continue a parcel tax that funds clean water and environmental cleanup; closed a loophole that exempted out-of-state businesses from collecting sales taxes for Calif.; and defeated at least two propositions that were funded by the Koch brothers, one of which would have prohibited unions from contributing to candidates while allowing themselves the privilege. The Koch brothers need to stay out of California -- the payback for us is that they put many millions of dollars into the economy trying to pass one prop. and defeat the other, and they lost on both. Yea! Better watch out -- as California goes, so goes the nation. Karl Rove, Norquist and others need to take note. The loony TPers and their backers have gone so far to the right that they've started a backlash. Congratulations to President Obama, Vice President Biden, and the SF Giants.
If Obama gets what he wants and taxes are raised on 250K plus earners then we will still have a 750 billion dollar annual deficit. We need to cut spending by that amount.
The 2012 federal deficit is $1.1T. Let's drop it to $750B by restoring the top bracket to 38% and knock it down to $550B but cutting $200B from the defense budget. That cuts the deficit in half right there. Then end fee-for-service reimbursements for Medicare / Medicaid and you'll be looking at a surplus before you can say "Todd Akin."
Pkgoode......and how many more people will be unemployed as a result?
Who cares lulu. I don't care if a bunch of idiots at the pentagon are laid off. They are leeches living off the system anyways. pkgoode is right. Take the rich off welfare now and cut, cut, cut the bloated defense budget.
We are not talking at the Pentagon. There are hundreds of thousands of defense related jobs across the US. We are talking boat builders, plane builders, IT people. Learn about it before you make stupid comments.
alex, you think it is the pentagon that would suffer. It will be the common Solider and their familes that would take the brunt of it. It would be the men and women who work in the factories that build our eqipment that would suffer. I will agree that there are parts of the defense budget that can be cut, but so can a lot of government spending. Defense only accounts for 24% of the budget.
http://www.usfederalbudget.us/federal_budget_detail_fy13
Well, while I'm proud of our military and its strength, I'll be darned if I would want the moniker of 'best exporters of war'. And while on topic, can anyone tell me how we get paid when we police the world? Is it kind gestures, or contracts for 'private' business or other....anyone? Cause I feel like we're getting played.
we are getting played and were not getting paid.
Fine Alex...go pickup a rifle and prepare to defend yourself you sorry POS.
Tax the churches!
Reagan gave the MIC a huge stimulus in the 1980s. Those companies flourished but the rest of the economy tanked. Then when that stimulus ended we went into a recession. Giving money to the MIC does not help the overall economy.
FDR gave a huge stimulus to the average Americans by putting them to work on building America with the New Deal and the economy grew by 9% year after year.
Taking money from the inefficient military and putting it into our economy works.
Better yet, put able bodied career welfare recipients to work at least cleaning parks and streets.
"able bodied career welfare recipients", don't exist..
There are only 4 states that don't have lifetime time limits on
welfare. 32 States including Kentucky have a 60 month lifetime limit
that an adult can be included in an Aid for Dependent Children case.
Florida and Georgia have 48 month lifetime limits and Arkansas has a
24 month lifetime limit. Welfare reform went into effect 16 yrs. Ago,
yet Conservatives continue to charge that people are having children
so that they can get Public Assistance for life. European Americans
are the largest group of people in this country receiving Welfare and
Food Assistance, yet Conservatives continue to charge that African
American and other People of Color are the only ones on Welfare.
People receiving Food Assistance must have little or no income to
qualify for the program and for a person to be resentful because
their own income is not low enough to be eligible is bizarre.
It probably doesn't help that there aren't many, if any, congressmen that are not millionaires. None of them can see what the "normal" people deal with. Maybe we need a "net worth ceiling" for congressmen and probably the president too. That and a two term max, without retirements, extras..maybe then we will get people in there that want to work together.
ORdem if you run for office,you got my vote!!
IQ tests come to mind as well.
Agreed!