Looks to me like Jr. is getting schooled by the VP! Go Biden!

If Romney's elected then it will become painfully obvious that he's an empty suit and only a spokesperson for his financial backers and basically an even worse disaster than GWB. Personally, I see the reason behind choosing Paul Ryan as vice president as impeachment insurance for Romney. What makes this scenario even more scary is the next person in line after Ryan would be Boehner, IF Boehner's re-elected.

touchdownplay and cruzin -- a taste of Romney's own medicine, maybe?

Doesn't matter who wins this debate. Vice Presidential debates have historically never held any statistical significance in the race.

Though it is some good entertainment.

Chris from Yucaipa

Yea he cuts Ryan off, look at the timer, he has 2 mins to talk and the host is too weak to stop him so Biden is forced to interrupt 3-4 mins into Ryan rant.

Romney did the same exact thing. What's good for the goose is is good for the gander. You ain't seen nothing yet, wait till the next debate. OBAMA is going to HAND it back to Romney.

the VP is supposed to be the attack dog for the Pres during a campaign, Joe is clearly on the attack; calling out Ryan on all of the bull@!$%# he is spewing. I am getting a kick out of watching, glad I decided to watch. Go Joe!

Further documentation: Lying Ryan.

Notice that Ryan keeps saying "we're saying... what we're saying... never we will. There is nothing definite about anything he says. It's the way a shifty person talks so that when he changes his position, he can say, wellll, we were just sayin'. we didn't promise you anything.

Ryan looks like the wicked witch of the west.. I'm melting...priceless

joe bidden is rude and arrogant. let ryan finish his time to speak.

Someone tell Biden to go back to kindergarten and learn the rule that says, "don't speak when others are speaking", and someone tell him to stop giggling

G. BUD,,, I though it was Eddie Munster

While I'm a strong supporter of Obama and Biden over Romney and Lying Ryan I don't like Biden interrupting as much as he has, but his talking to the camera which Obama didn't do is very effective. I was honest when I mentioned I was disappointed with Obama's performance in the first debate, I think Paul Ryan is being eaten alive just like we did at his Town Hall Meetings here in Janesville and the Rock Co. area. He had no answers and looked a fool then and he does again tonight. He sure drinks a lot of water tonight. He also, had to go back to what he called the failed policies when he can't talk a good lie!

BUT WHY DID MR BIDEN JUST SAY THAT WE ARE GIVING AFGHANS THE JOBS???

Rob,

Ryan has no details to get into. Vacant.

ED,

I guess we won't know based on tonight's so-called "debate," will we?

Biden is killing Ryan.... he is not letting him get away with any BS...

He just hit him hard on Afghanistan, saying more afghan troops trained by the US are going on patrol as they should be.

WTF are we doing in Afghanistan ? What is our goal ? We are going to leave at a certain date regardless. What is that ? Our contract has expired ? I mean if you want them out, bring them the hell home. If you have another goal, don't you think you should try to accomplish that goal. I conclude, we have no goal there. BRING THEM HOME ! What the heck- Vietnam we didn't go over to win, so why were we even there ?

Ryan does not understand replacements, the whole idea is for less reliance on the U.S.

Syrians are basically enemies of the U.S they hate us, they burn our flag, dance in the streets for 9/11, shout death to America. Al Qeada is working with the Syrian rebels and Romney wants to give them heavy artillery, he should make this point. Saudi will not even give the rebels RPGsfor fear of falling into the wrong hands.

Ryan is out of touch on the ME.

I cannot stand Biden, he is the biggest arrogant jackass... do you really want someone like that in the whitehouse...????? time to move forward with a new President.... Romney/Ryan.....Biden is just talking about nothing... it's a very angry man..

Toss Ryan a life preserver--he's drowning!

Watching the debates, I would say that Biden is the one in control. Eddy Munster keeps pissing me off and offering nothing of substance. In fact, he wants to try to win people over with his "personal" stories.

I heard a key phrase that Biden, jumped all over to interupt, so as not to get it said. My fellow Americans, please listen to this. It has worked for two former Presidents, Reagan and Clinton. These two presidents were leaders, they knew how to work with the Congress, which both had the opposite party in control. You can't demonize the other party, and tell them to "get to the back of the bus." Or "It's my way or the highway"

This is what this President has done; he has divided this country, he has stagnated the federal government, he doesn't know how to LEAD. A good leader, knows that he needs all people to work together, to get anything done. Compromise, listen to the other side, to their ideas and come to a consensus on what is best for the country.

As congressman Ryan was trying to say, but good old Biden interupted, they have a framework, but need Congress to input their ideas, and come to a consensus for what IS GOOD FOR AMERICA.

Romney/Ryan 2012

Uncle Joe still blaming the movie for the killing of our Ambassador???????

Joe Biden as President in waiting? That's the question!

Why does Joe Biden think this VP debate is so funny, he just keeps laughing, I don't find anything being debated funny? They had three years to make changes all we received was talk talk talk they could not walk the walk it is time for the US to move on, VOTE ROMNEY/RYAN they are not laughing and will not laugh at our problems!!!

Martha is bias not allowing Ryan to respond. Her husband is Obama FCC appointee , all stay at home.

@ Random;

I have been laughing with him, Ryan has said some ignorant things that are just not true.They all laughed at the Jack Kennedy thing together.

The miltary nor our national security would be compromised with cuts,(that is BS) even with defense cuts we would still outspend most countries combined.

Obama has not put anything on the table? Your joking right?

Joe "Bite Me" playing his Catholic card but doesn't believe in life at conception.

Why is it when a woman has an abortion it's a "fetus", but when she has a miscarriage she miscarried a "baby"?

LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION!

ROMNEY/RYAN 2012 FOR REAL AMERICANS©

Biden-you are either Catholic or not. If you are, then you stand by the Catholic religion which is you do not believe in killing unborn babies nor do you support others killing unborn babies and by the way idiot, muslims kill their already born children and anybody they feel like killing. Do not call yourself a Catholic if you support anyone killing unborn babies you scum bag!

Biden forgot to mention how the GOP obstructed and filibustered every single jobs bill that was put on the table.

Paul Lyan blames Obama for the economy but fails to accept it was him that voted NO No NO NO No...

Look at it this way, Ryan will go back to the House a little wiser on foreign affairs by having the opportunity to learn from the VP tonight.

Good old young punk Eddy Munster

er Ryan I loved it got caught about the 5 trillion for the wealthy and how he was going to pay for it and he gave that dumb smirk, Biden asked and how you going to pay for 2 trillion for the military now that's funny See you Repubhillbillys Say something stupid like Biden smiles to much the fact of matter Biden pretty smart compared to Ryan that dumb glazed look maybe he was smoking some little cigerrettes

@stronghorse

Yes call it assassination insurance. As bad as some people want that Black man out of office, they want Biden as President even less.

Ryan is schooling him on the budget.

HEY LIBBIES, WILL WE EVER BE BLESSED WITH A BUDGET????????

ROMNEY/RYAN 2012 FOR REAL AMERICANS©

Ryan just sh!t himself. The look on his face says it all.

WELL......it must be the Joe Show....if he would just get some manners and stop laughing and interrupting. Things MIGHT go better and we can hear both sides.

Scott

I guess little wiser is get more enemies in the Meddle East and lose our allies.

Joe lose. Not convincing, acting childish.

He can have his Crayons as long as he buys them himself and does not expect his government to pay for them.

I have never seen someone say so much and nothing at all. WOW.

@Rob;

Ryan just slammed the administration, point after point - Biden had no response. Suddenly Biden can't find his voice!

Are you sure your t.v is turned up sir?

Biden did well. Lyan lied as usual.

Biden needed to look at the camera more IMO.

Talking to the moderator is not the only way.

BUT..

Lyan only won on his closing statement begging with his good looks.

Biden took this one out of the park.

Okay that's it. We are all going to Hades in a handbasket. Ryan's numbers don't add up and Biden is telling us he will level the playing field. Yeah Obama said he was going to level the playing field in his inaugural address and came into power with the house. When are they going to do it ? Why are the rich getting tax loopholes. Obama came into office with power. Obama also promised he would cut the pork out of bills. How many forklifts does it take to lift Obamacare ? Obama said he would throw special interests out of D.C.- when ? I like the way Biden talks to his friends. Yikes !

Whats that sound? Mittens Wormney dropping 4 points in the next polls. Ryan was a little boy tonight getting schooled by a statesman! Outclassed, outgunned and out smarted was Ryan tonight. They Wormney & Pauley Shore have NO Phucking plans to solve our issues. Ryan can't answer a single question without lecturing the moderator.

Mittens and his 12 million jobs is a pipe dream. He can't create the jobs that are already expected to be created. So is he adding another 12 million jobs?

Paul Ryan is unqualified to be the VP.. Mittens is unqualified to be President!

Obama & Biden 2012.. We can't go back to Reaganomics.

Don't care who one I already voted. I do have one question is not secretly recording someone, Biden does have more brains than Obuma but he really does not have a job that does anything. Obuma is still an idiot that needed Biden to cover his backside.

Jim Spence watched some other debate. Ryan was schooled tonight.

Joe Not only humped the snake, He defanged it. Course It was a pitiful snake.

I thought it was a great debate...I could have done without the Biden condescending laugh, but he showed his boss how it is done. On Ryan's side, he did quite well considering his experience in these debates. Well done on both sides.

Everytime you saw Biden laugh...

...Paul Lyan lied.

Towards the end Biden got tired of the lies and it wasn't funny anymore.

Akakakaka........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Biden Biach slapped lyin ryan, lOOK AT ALL THE WHINING Neo Cons.

Romney/Ryan want to controll Womens Bodys. Women will not let Old Middle aged White GOP Men Dictate to them what they can or cannot do

Man, he really likes to ride that 47%... Every chance he could, guess that means he doesn't have anything else. btw, that 47% something that was proven to be taken out of context

Taken out of context how? Here's a complete transcript of that comment word for word

Romney: There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe that government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what. And I mean, the president starts off with 48, 49, 48—he starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax. So our message of low taxes doesn't connect. And he'll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. I mean that's what they sell every four years. And so my job is not to worry about those people—I'll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. What I have to do is convince the 5 to 10 percent in the center that are independents that are thoughtful, that look at voting one way or the other depending upon in some cases emotion, whether they like the guy or not, what it looks like. I mean, when you ask those people…we do all these polls—I find it amazing—we poll all these people, see where you stand on the polls, but 45 percent of the people will go with a Republican, and 48 or 4…

Actually, I thought they both did very well, much better than the heads of their respective tickets.

The moderator is as stupid as Biden too. Of course she is from ABC. Seems like everytime she is about to hear an argument or get the truth she cuts them off in the middle of what they are saying and says okay lets move on to something else. She is a terrible moderator. She has no order there, she just sits there and let's Biden keep interrupting when it's Ryans turn to speak. Putting her and Biden together on there just makes ya'll look even worse-2 dummies.

Well, what do you expect, dumbama is her friend, he was at her wedding and went to college with her hubbie who coincidentally has a high ranking job with the White House thanks to dumbama! Pretty good, they even try to get an advantage. And then they send in that idiot biden who acts like a 10 yr.old over there smiling, making faces laughing and just being childish. There he is always talking about his parents this, his parents that, but did his parents even teach him how to be an adult? Obama didn't show up mentally to his debate and now biden shows up and acts like an idiot! This should help them!!

I guess their campaign thugs will have to go to more high schools next week and lie to the school to get in by saying they are from the election board and once in, register the students to vote! How desperate is that getting?

Joe "Bite Me" tried to pull a Mitt Romney and be the aggressor.

I know Mitt Romney. Joe, you're no Mitt Romney.

ROMNEY/RYAN 2012 FOR REAL AMERICANS©

Biden sits there and lies and says these 4 people were killed in Libya because of a video. Hellllooooo Joe-we the American people know it was a planned terrorist attack that the Obama adm. knew about and our Mabassador asked for more protection and they were denied that protection. These people should never had died. They were murdered by our own gov't by not poviding them the protection they needed and then what do we have there-rubber bullets-what an embarassement this country has become. Another US official was killed in Yemen in another attack-what is the excuse this time. YET...these idiots are going to continue to sit there and try to say it was because of a video-that excuse doesn't fly!!! Biden was nothing but disrepsectful and rude the whole debate-but go figure-but we more would we expect from a libtard. Paul Ryan showed real class and passed with flying colors.

ROMNEY/RYAN 2012

Old joe was to angry, interruptive, out right rude, and didn't have any plans on how to get our nation out this slump we're in. Ryan showed good restraint as he didn't cold cock the old man, and Ryan hit the ball out of the park in his closing statement. This will go down as yet another victory for the Romney camp!!!.

Biden looked like a complete a$$hole! Tried to be the big bully...what a douche bag!

Does Ryan remind anyone else of that little stoolie, who used to wear a shirt and tie to high school, and volunteer as "class moderator" when the teacher would leave the room?

Fair is fair. I owned Obama's loss, and now I'm owning Biden's win.

Dear Veep,

Thank you. You were freaking awwweessooommmeee, tonight! Way to strike a blow. You give me hope that old, white men CAN and DO understand my life. (No offense to old, white men, you just don't always seem to get it).

P.S.

I understand that there's a slight age difference between us, however I feel like we should be together. I think I'm in love. Call me!

Coral

Ryan does not understand replacements, the whole idea is for less reliance on the U.S.

Biden doesn't seem to understand that the Afghanistan aren't working out so well yet.

Syrians are basically enemies of the U.S they hate us, they burn our flag, dance in the streets for 9/11, shout death to America. Al Qeada is working with the Syrian rebels and Romney wants to give them heavy artillery, he should make this point. Saudi will not even give the rebels RPGsfor fear of falling into the wrong hands.

You don't seem to understand that there are many factions of the Rebels and that Al Qaeda is gaining a foothold because this adminstration did not move to fill the needs of the Rebels BEFORE Al Qaeda got involved.

Ryan was out of his depth. "we will not duck the tough issues" what a laugh. He ducked giving specifics on anything, yet again. "What we're saying...we're saying. Just sayin', not promising anything no specifics. Trust us, democrat bad. RIP Alex Karras.

Isn't it noble how Biden shows us proper debate etiquette? If only I was alluded to interrupt every other statement and smirk throughout the debates I participate in… it's a good thing HE is our vice president.

Tried to be the big bully

This plays well with left sympathizers, but not well with the middle.

I don't think I have ever seen a more disrespectful blowhard than biteme was tonight.

Bulletin....Just announced...Paul Ryan is on suicide watch tonight!!!!!

Ryan had no math....no knowledge of foreign policy, just repeated lies because Romney got away with it!....Not tonight!!!!

Vote Obama/biden 2012...fighting for the middle class.

Joe "Bite me" threw the State Department under the bus. He still has no clue what happened in Benghazi and why 4 Americans returned home in coffins.

This administration is in the middle of another Watergate, except no one died in Watergate.

ROMNEY/RYAN 2012 FOR REAL AMERICANS©

Lyin Ryan, but we got to keep our troops in Afghanistan it is the fighting season, Ol Joe Biden listen here sunny we have trained 100s of thousands of Afghanis to fight we are using THEM TO DO THE FIGHTING. Ryan waaahh wahhh Blank Stare ..............SCHOOLED

usa1967.....you must have missed romney style of debate a week ago huh?....aaaahahahahahaha

Interesting qeustion:

Why wouldn't Ryan allow himself to be addressed as "Congressman Ryan"?

He have something to hide?; I'd think "real Americans" would be proud of the job they're doing.

T. Money Trim/A Play Run:"We'll say whatever the 47% need to hear!"

handsoffmymedicare: so you really want to have the government taking care of you? The government is not my idea of a great caretaker.

It's now 1 and 1 with 2 to go.

Ryans Closing remarks to the camera , If that did not look like a typical lying politician pandering for votes. He turned off most Independent Voters with his straight faced lies and empty with facts promises

Mitt Romney's policies will end Planned Parenthood. Women will be unable to get abortions. Romney and Ryan will destroy Social Security. The Republicans will find a way to make
Syria another Iraq/Afghanistan. Obama is bringing all of our troops home from that region. Let him end the Republican craziness before more of our troops'lives are lost for nothing.

Mitt the flip-flopping twitt is:

1. The Anti-Christ (The Mormon book, The Pearl of Great Price, claims that all other Christian groups are "corrupt" and are an "abomination" in God's sight (Joseph Smith, 2:19). If given
another chance, the Republicans led by this Anti-Christ will begin yet another war as they did in Iraq and Afghanistan which has resulted in the loss of thousands of young American lives.)

2. Mitt the Twitt is a draft dodger so he cannot be Commander-in-Chief. He ran away to
France to avoid the draft.

3. Mitt the Twitt is really Mexican and should not be running for President of the United States. His father and grand-father were born in Mexico. They fled there in order to upkeep their polygamous lifestyle. His great-grandfather still has arrest warrants out for him. Judith Freeman. Her great-grandfather, William Flake, and Miles Romney were arrested for
polygamy in Arizona. Flake paid the $1000 to bail Romney out of jail. Romney skipped bail and as a result Flake spent six months in prison for it. These people have no morals.

4. Ryan’s black girlfriend, Deneeta Pope, also lied and defrauded her bosses at Ernst & Young out of $77,000 for fake training. Pope was convicted in 2001 and spent five months in federal prison. She donated money to help him with his campaign to become Congressman in 1997. Ryan has a black sister-in-law but his motives are shady. Romney and Ryan are a
questionable pair.

Young Ryan's team have a note from his mother for the press. That is just priceless. Being such a young person and being spanked on stage by an older statesman and your campaign is handing the press a note from your mother?

IndependentinSD

Ryans Closing remarks to the camera , If that did not look like a typical lying politician pandering for votes. He turned off most Independent Voters with his straight faced lies and empty with facts promises

Compared to Biden? No way! haha

Yes, Ryan got spanked. Try as he might to sling crap and run, Joe always called it what it was and shot it down. Ryan was hurt by the Eddie Munster look with smirk, by his lack of presence and credibility (malarkey is one word for it). The abortion issue is again front and center...and what is "Team Romney" going to say about that? The revenue side of the budget and the Norquist Pledge was obviously much better than trying to represent the poor 'job creating billionaires' as persecuted and over-burdened. Ryan's stimulus money requests to Biden (in writing) saying that it creates growth and jobs. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow....... The ten count and out...way to go JOE/VP+4.

Any moment NBC will announce the major earthquake the occured tonight here in the states.....from obama's poll#s DROPPING AGAIN!!!.

Breaking News

Paul Ryan was just seen cradling his Teddy Bear while his mother went to get him some cold milk and cookies

Kornfed

Joe looked like a Blue Collard worker a middle-class citizen compared to Ryan looking like a snake oil salesman

Ya, Ryan is a $#!+ and we don't need any more of that in charge of our country!

I actually thought CNN had some pretty good analysis of the debate. You might want to declare victory on this one libs, but the fact is, it was pretty well done from both sides. Biden would have won just for the ease and comfort he displayed, but I thought he really took away from that with his smirks and belly laughs. It came across as a bit rude if you ask me.

This debate was an absolute joy to watch! God love Biden for being human and have a sense of humor. I don't care if you are a pro-middle class Democrat or a millionaire supporting Republican, if you weren't laughing right along with Joe, you have real issues. It really was like a Saturday Night Live comedy skit. Ryan's drivel was so completely absurd I was expecting Ryan to say "Live from New York! It's Saturday night!" at any time.

Anyone else remember the Foghorn Leghorn cartoons? Ryan reminded me of that little chicken hawk that pestered Leghorn. I could imagine Biden as Leghorn holding back Ryan (the little chicken hawk) as Ryan was taking swings in the air and saying "Son. I say son...".

I wish we had a second debate for the Veeps. Loved it.

Romney was absolutely correct about the 47%. They will vote for the candidate that keeps giving them their free ride.

What amazes me, is that 53% of the people allow this to happen. 53% of the people are paying for the rest of the 47%. THAT IS AN ATTACK ON THE MIDDLE CLASS! But let's go ahead and reelect a president who believe in dividing the country.

You do realize that a good portion of that 47% are going to vote for Romney, yourself included.

Kornfed,

Give me a break. If I hear one more, old, white dude tell me what I should/shouldn't do with my body, my head will explode. Did you see the congressional panel on women's health? That's not racist, that's the truth.

I don't think Ryan did well at all. He was scrambling, sweating, at one point looked like he was going to cry, vague and all out, "stoolie-ish". Sorry.

I'm keeping it real.

Who's got two thumbs and is a member of the 47%.... Ahhhhh, THIS GIRL!

Joe Biden dispatched and crushed Big Bird( Ryan ) without actually having to cut funding for it!

This debate was an absolute joy to watch! God love Biden for being human and have a sense of humor. I don't care if you are a pro-middle class Democrat or a millionaire supporting Republican, if you weren't laughing right along with Joe, you have real issues

He did this to demean his opponent. This is one of Biden's techniques. I dont think it is something you laugh with unless you are already in his corner. It will be interesting to see how the fence riders will react to this. Bottom line here guys... It is O'bama that is running for President. He has two chances to redeem himself.

This debate was an absolute joy to watch! God love Biden for being human and have a sense of humor. I don't care if you are a pro-middle class Democrat or a millionaire supporting Republican, if you weren't laughing right along with Joe, you have real issues. It really was like a Saturday Night Live comedy skit. Ryan's drivel was so completely absurd I was expecting Ryan to say "Live from New York! It's Saturday night!" at any time.

Anyone else remember the Foghorn Leghorn cartoons? Ryan reminded me of that little chicken hawk that pestered Leghorn. I could imagine Biden as Leghorn holding back Ryan (the little chicken hawk) as Ryan was taking swings in the air and saying "Son. I say son...".

I wish we had a second debate for the Veeps. Loved it.

I enjoyed it, too. I have new respect for Joe Biden. Paul Ryan just solidified my view of him and the current republican party.

OMG, poor Marsha Blackburn...what is she allowed to say about the theocratic agenda on abortions and privacy rights? Ryan laid out "their position" tonight...ooo. Yeah, I think so too.

What's the plan to pay for the cuts team Romney proposes (sort of)? Why such huge increases in defense spending proposed? Where are any facts? Ouch...this is what they send to defend the Romney "plan"? Just say everything is fine, we'll be better than 'them'. I'm not impressed by this Republican attempt at general harmony /SARC/ or their candidates. I'd still like to see the tax returns Mitt. Hmmm. Voting is under way.

He did this to demean his opponent

And he did so with ease, didn't he?

The blatant lack of class shown by Biden in this debate showed me why they've kept him hidden for 4 years. Between the moderator and Biden taking turns cutting Ryan off it makes my choice even easier. I wanted to hear them both not Biden then Biden's voice over Ryan's.

Sarah-3043284

Kornfed,

Give me a break. If I hear one more, old, white dude tell me what I should/shouldn't do with my body

Again, you sound a bit racist. I dont like people telling me they can spend my money better than I can...but I dont need to throw human characteristics out there to make my point.

Frank Luntz's panel of Independents just said this debate didn't change any of their minds.

This is what this debate was about. The majority of Americans minds were already made up.

It's good to know we will finally get rid of the trespasser in our White House and finally replace him with a real American who believes in American exceptionalism.

ROMNEY/RYAN 2012 FOR REAL AMERICANS©

Biden lost all respect with his crazy laugh and anxiety driven interruptions. Usually, the person with the most issues to hide, talks fast and interrupts often, plus flops their body around in frustration.

Confidence never behaves like Biden did tonight.

Its amazing to hear how many call Biden rude. This coming from the side that coined names like Obummer, Nobama, etc etc ad nauseum. Not thrilled that the Dems have started returning the childish name calling, but isnt it kind of hard to take the high ground when crawling so low?

Kornfed,

You're reaching.

I'll tell you what. When the GOP is NOT made up of a majority of, well old, white dudes, and their platform does NOT include invading my privacy and right to make my OWN decisions regarding my body, and I make that comment... You'll have a point.

Until then, keep trying.

Ryan just might of cost them there chance by CLEARLY stating Romneys and his position on Abortion and Roe vs Wade. The Dems just need to show that 30 second bit over and over again

mygirl1

I already called the SNL comparison. If you weren't laughing right along with Joe at how absurd Ryan was, you have mental health issues, and probably would be best off voting for Obama to get the help you need.

BTW, yes, I am a fully licensed, practicing psychologist qualified to diagnose mental health issues.

Another night of republican lies. why am i not suprised?

This coming from the side that coined names like Obummer, Nobama,

Are you serious? Have you seen the names Republicans are called here? It's disgusting.

I listened to the debate...my wife watched. The constant interruption by Biden
was annoying in trying to follow the discussion but I felt Biden outpointed
Ryan...he certainly threw far more punches. My wife reports that Biden's persona
and facial expressions DQ'd him and awarded Ryan a TKO.

Somewhat similar dichotomy to that in the first Kennedy-Nixon debate where those who listened thought Nixon had won whereas those who watched gave it to Kennedy..

Sarah-3043284

Kornfed,

You're reaching.

I am? Do you see me saying i dont need young black men telling me how much money I can keep? I think that would be analogous, dont you? Try to take your anger glasses off for a moment, and use logic to assess the comparison, not unbridled emotion.

Way to go Joe! Awesome job.

I think the most interesting thing I heard was how the Romney's "tax reform" plan came out tonight. Ryan as much as admitted they don't have a plan, he said they have a "framework" they'll give to Congress. Their basic framework is add 2 plus 5 and subtract 6, but you need to end up with 10. Mr. Ryan it just won't add up and you know it. So I guess the "plan" is to give Congress an impossible framework and then you can blame them for not getting it right!

Just finished the debate and watching the follow up out here on the west coast

Biden came off rude, arrogant, disrespectful, and trying waaaay to hard to look like the bad ass after Obama's dismal performance. Ryan never lost his temper or his gentlemanly deamor like his friend, Biden did. Ryan did NOT go on the attack when Biden RUDELY interrupted numerous times. Perhaps some may think he should have. I think he did the right think in keeping his calm and showing the American people that the younger man could and did show himself as the more mature and capable. The commentators pretty much called the debate a draw and I think that's pretty fair if Bidens immature behavior is what they expected. Ryan didn't need to out show Biden by any huge margin. All he really needed to do was show the American people that he could go head to head on the issues and come out of looking like a class act that understands the issues and has some decent ideas on what to do about it. HE absolutely succeeded in that endeavor so for that alone I'd actually declare him the winner as Biden fAILED to school "the kid". There's some comments here about Ryans lack of foreign policy experience. He's got as much and probably more than Obama did when he elected. In the fact check section Biden was called out on atleast 3 or 4 BS stories where it looked like Ryan was called out once. Overall I'd call it a good night for the Republicans. Looking forward to Debate 2 between Romney and Obama.

ROMNEY/RYAN 2012!!!!! Obama is one and done!!!

Kornfed,

When one party DOES have a majority consisting of young black men, who actually and actively, in an organized legislative manner, ARE telling you how much money you can keep, THEN SAY IT, buddy.

And then, and only then, would it be analogous. Making something up, is not analogous to the truth.

Your attempts to pick an argument, over this are a tad bit pathetic. I thought you were better then grasping at straws.

To Jim

Congratulations Paul Ryan, or I should say the nextP Vice President of the United States of America

Its more like Congratulations Paul Ryan or Should I say the next Vice President of the Gover Norquist 3rd grade elementry

Paul did you wet your pants again?

Sarah-3043284

Kornfed,

When one party DOES have a majority consisting of young black men, who actually and actively ARE telling you how much money you can keep, THEN SAY IT, buddy.

I'll write you off as a hopeless case. Maybe others will see the point I am making.

So, another debate and not a single mention about education, TRUE tax reform, regulation reform, energy policy, trade deficits or immigration.

Talking points.

Typical Liberal moderators. All symbolism over substance.

At least Big Bird was spared being defeathered again.

ROMNEY/RYAN 2012 FOR REAL AMERICANS©

Coral Taxi

Your a bit mixed up.

Obama wants to send the Syrian rebels aka al-qaeda $150 million dollars of your borrowed money.

Obama has already sent over 2.5 billion of your borrowed money to Egypt and Libya, both now controlled by the muslime brotherhood and al-qaeda.

Why does Obama keep sending your borrowed money to terrorists??

People (sheeple) are commenting on Bidens smiles and laughs, because that is exactly what Fox "news" is doing. Why aren't they commenting on that fixed grin that Ryan had on his face? Damn, I am not even a God hating liberal Democrat and I am seeing this!

Kornfed,

Good choice. Save yourself the futility of attempting to make a ridiculous case based on nothing.

P.S. You're sounding really sanctimonious.

Sarah-3043284

Kornfed,

Good choice. Save yourself the futility of attempting to make a ridiculous case based on nothing.

P.S. You're sounding really sanctimonious

Ahh, then you realize the actual point I was trying to make all along. I am glad you saw it. Now the question is, why do you accept that type of behavior from one side, and not the other.

Great debate! Makes me proud to be an American.

Moderater did a fantastic job keeping both candidates in line and giving equal time. Also, she really tried to grill Ryan to be specifc since he kept avoiding specifics.

Joe Biden still rocks! Have always loved the guy -- he's real, he's authentic. Love the smile! He always holds his own in a debate and his style is the same no matter who he is talking to or where he is.

Thought Ryan was well rehearsed in foreign policy for a young man. Sounds like he wasn't sure exactly where his party stood on some things, but that's okay because I don't think Mitt Romney knows either.

Biden made all his party's stances very clear. Wow, what a memory that guy has got!

Still could not get a clear understanding of what the GOP wants to do about education cuts. They say they are cutting Pell Grants and didn't deny they were cutting the tax credit for folks like me with kids in college. Romney said no education cuts in his debate. Doesn't add up.

The only thing we are going to hear tomorrow about tonight's debate is what fox says tonight about it, The sheeple have NO original thoughts they are just FOXBOTS, Joe was Grinning to much, Joe did this, Joe is so un VP ish. How about Joe cleaned Ryans Clock

Kornfed

I'll write you off as a hopeless case. Maybe others will see the point I am making.

Korn, you're dealing with the bobble head crowd here.

If you want to get your point across you need Crayola Crayons. The 64 box if possible.

I hear they like rainbows.

ROMNEY/RYAN 2012 FOR REAL AMERICANS©

I actually feel sorry for Republicans, because every time someone farted in the audience, Ryan changed his views.

Funny how you GOP/TP'ers didn't complain about Romney constantly interupting the President during their debate, but now...boohoo.

Jimmyyyyy....good ol Franks Lutz Fox news pollster was one of the repub leaders with Paul Ryan who pledged to take the economy down just to make Obama a one term president. boehner told all repubs not to have anything to do with Lutz as he was toxic...so they did not invite Boehner to the pldge against america party.....and we are supposed to believe anything from the putz Lutz?????? I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!!!

apparently smirking, talking over people, cutting people off--those are OK when Romney does it. when someone turns around and heaps it back on, while pointing out that every single thing your opponent says is absolutely untrue, then it's rude and unwarranted.

Why is it that whenever Democrats do Exactly the things Republicans Invented, it's horrible and unfair? If You want civility, start off showing some. If you Don't Like People calling you a Swine, Don't roll around in the Slop with Pigs.

Loved how Biden called out Ryan; "You sent me 2 letters asking for stimulus money"...priceless.

That did help to show Ryans a fake didn't it.

Joe didn't let GOP lies dominate the debate, Fool me once, Fool me twice only works on puppets and GOP supporters...oh and sometimes your pet. I'm not a big poll fan, Buttttttt I'm sure the deceitful camel just got overloaded by Joe's piece of straw. Obama better bring a bale next time and put these extreme fringe fakes where they belong.

Note to republicans..Send candidates that put country/people before greed and can do something besides obstruct and lie.

Sarah-3043284

I'll tell you what. When the GOP is NOT made up of a majority of, well old, white dudes, and their platform does NOT include invading my privacy and right to make my OWN decisions regarding my body,

Sarah, so are we to assume you're one of these "keep the government out of my vagina types"?

ROMNEY/RYAN 2012 FOR REAL AMERICANS©

Romney didn't smirk continuously like a trained ape, unlike Biden. Biden wasn't doing anything except spouting party rhetoric and interrupting. I couldn't stand to watch, I want to see a debate, not buffonery. That anyone thought Biden materful is astonishing. Watching took away any sense of information, there wasn't a debate, no exchange of ideas or programs, just Smirking Joe, unfortunate victim of tourettes.

Joe didn't let GOP lies dominate the debate? Please, Joe acted like the class clown and you all think that was masterful?

Korn, you're dealing with the bobble head crowd here.

If you want to get your point across you need Crayola Crayons. The 64 box if possible.

I hear they like rainbows.

ROMNEY/RYAN 2012 FOR REAL AMERICANS©

You seem very well versed in crayons. What is your favorite color?

Romney came across as a desperate bully steam rolling over the Moderator in the Presidential debate last week.

Tonight Joe Biden showed how to keep it real and do it right in the VP one. Be aggressive without being rude. Loved his smile! He's so authentic with everyone -- no plastic, just the real thing.

Real facts. Real heart.

Way to go, Joe!

Kornfed,

Get over yourself and off your high horse, before you get a saddle rash.

The answer to your question... Probably because I see things differently then you, which there is NOTHING wrong with. See, your "sides" implies that everything is universal, and that someone is always right and always wrong, that every situation is similar and that what's applicable to one set of facts is applicable to every set of facts. It's not that black and white, slugger. That's what they call the false dilemma.

My opinions and posts are based on my morals, reasonings and the totality of the circumstances. You don't like what I have to say, you think I'm partisan, you think I'm biased, feel free to ignore me. That's why they created the button.

Now, do you want to continue discussing me or the topic? Personally, I don't think I'm nearly as interesting as a Vice-Presidential debate, but you sure seem to.

Jim,

Yeah, that's a safe assumption.

The damage control on Fox noise (Hannity) is hilarious! I wonder at what point during the debate Ryan realized he was losing pretty badly...

Ok my take on the debate tonight is Biden is insane 8( rude as hell nut job.

What the hell was he smiling about so much complete lunatic epic fail looking like the JOKER.

The moderator had absolutely no control.

Hmm moderates like myself hate bully asshats and the condescending demeanor was absolutely pathetic.

I lost count of how many times Biden interrupted Ryan at least 50 times what a douche.

Back in Jr High and High School we had a name for douches like Biden.

He was a bully tonight and that will not help them.

SPAZ

Romney didn't smirk like a trained ape

ACTUALLY, It was RYAN (if you are talking about the debate of which this thread is dedicated to), and OH YES HE DID! He had a silly smirk on his face the entire debate. And, truthfully, he did look like a monkey.

Big Al, had Ryan been the aggressor you wouldn't say that at all just like you didn't criticize Romney during the first debate. Big Al, are you a Partisan hack?

...except spouting party rhetoric and interrupting. I couldn't stand to watch, I want to see a debate, not buffonery.

Speaking of party rhetoric and buffoonery ,now you know how I feel every time I see a Romney stump speech.

It was sad to see Ryan look like a little Worm, he's only a kid, why did Romney pick a dumb kid !!!!!!!!!!!!

Jim Spence & Korn fed

It's a real rough crowd tonight. I see someone throwing their professional weight, and got an email offering the opportunity to go "toe to toe" if I want to.

Before I saw these thing, I thought Biden might have edged out Ryan, but now I'm beginning to wonder if it's the other way around.

If that is what being a Liberal is all about, then I want no parts of it, EVER!

Those of you drunk on what this black muslim president is going to do for you in another 4 years is just plain crazy.

Do you honestly think that anyone with any inellegence thinks that your point is valid after this start? Do you know what the word "valid" even means? Do you know how to use GOOGLE? Do you know what it means to "research" something? I am guessing a big fat NO for all of the above. People like you make me wish that you have to take an IQ test to vote.

And the best part of the debate was when Joe Biden pointed out that Ryan sent him not one, but two letters requesting stimulus money! And Ryan had to admit it on national tv even though he and Romney are continually spouting off about the bad stimulus plan!

LOVED IT!

Hands off my medicare;

You poor delusional thing. You haven't had a Social Security or medicare account since the Great enumerator LBJ converted it to a tax and stole every single dime in the S.S. account system. You have been collecting an entitlement just like WELFARE since 1963. You live at the whim and caprice of lesser politicians. You have no vested interest in S.S. or medicare, it is a tax supported social program that has long been unsustainable. In other words you have no retirement to lose, you lost any vested interest in 1963.

Unlike you, I have not trusted government in a looooong time, now. I have seen to my own security in the future. Perhaps you should have to instead of trusting the fox not to raid the chicken house. These people would sell their own mother for the right price. Dear old Uncle Joe brought us 20 plus percentage credit cards. He is a snake in the grass just like every other politician of modern time. Politicians, If they're mouth is moving, they ARE lying to you.

Martha is a decent journalist, as a moderator, especially with a Biden acting like a buffoon, she was in over her head. I expected him to jump up, clap his hands and do the hokey pokey at any moment. I think Obama supports him because he makes him look rational and causes the secret service to be extra vigilante because they realize without Obama....Joe would be acting as president. "Little red button? Hey, what's say we give that a push?"

Way to go Joe!! What a bulldog you were tonight! Thanks..we needed that.

Obama/Biden 2012!!!!

Sarah-3043284

Jim,

Yeah, that's a safe assumption.

Hmmmm, that's interesting.

So, you don't want the government in your vagina, but you're OK with the government making institutions who reject contraceptives pay for them.

How does that work again?

ROMNEY/RYAN 2012 FOR REAL AMERICANS©

Joe won hands down, it was a very fair debate !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jim Spence,

In defense of Sarah,

I think your absolutely obnoxious .

Go back to your flat earth...and take that theocrat ryan with ya.

I knew back in 2008 that President Obama had picked a winner as a running mate, and Joe Biden proved it again tonight in the debate.

Thanks for spelling out exactly what the current Administration is doing and making it clear to the American people, Joe.

You've always been there for our nation and your record proves it!

That's 2 debates won by Romney/Ryan O for Obama/Biden

Biden looked like an idiot and acted like a petulant monkey tonight. But I guess when you have a losing record and you can't actually defend your moronic policies, you come to the debate without any ammo.

Jim,

I don't know how that works, since that isn't what's going on.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/sep/26/government-not-god-pac/pac-ad-says-obama-will-force-christian-groups-pay-/

Call me when your church has to pass out the Plan B pill in the tithing basket. I'll defend you too.

Michigan Mark,

Thank you and go Tigers!!!

Geez Jim, how many times does Sarah have to school you and Kornfed before you guys give up?

mygirl1 wrote:

...Joe would be acting as president. "Little red button? Hey, what's say we give that a push?"

As far as Ol' joe becoming prez and pushing the button, as long as he targets a few Red States, I'm cool with it. ;)

Since I am a conservative I say Paul Ryan did better than Biden (and initial polls tend to confirm) but it was a lot closer than the last presidential debate - at least Joe Biden showed up.

But I assure you the arrogance, snobbish, and condescending laughter and facial movements of Joe Biden will be all that is discussed over the next few days and will hurt even further the Obama/Biden campaign. I know that Joe made some idiotic comments (and supporters will think Joe did well) but, honestly, I can't remember a thing Joe Biden said since all I can recall is the Joe Biden laughter and arrogance.

I think Biden hurt his ticket today when he actually had a good opportunity to offset some of the spanking Obama got last week - but Biden's arrogant behavior nullified all of that potential benefit.

RTypo,

What can I say? I'm pissing off the world one Newsvine poster at a time! It's my one, true talent. :)

Martha Raddatz did an excellent job as Moderator. She kept it moving and was focused. Very impressive!

She didn't lose control like Jim Lehrer did when he let Romney bully him in that debate.

Was Joe Biden attempting to show us that he can do a good imitation of The Joker? I'm glad he didn't color his hair red. His performance during the debate is one more reason to be concerned about his mental wellness.

As far as Ol' joe becoming prez and pushing the button, as long as he targets a few Red States, I'm cool with it. ;)

Lol, I'm sure you never once complained about divisiveness in politics right? Psst, people like you are the problem today.

Geez Jim, how many times does Sarah have to school you and Kornfed before you guys give up?

I've read Sarah's posts and don't recall her "schooling" anyone, can you point out exactly which posts you are talking about please? Thanks in advance.

Once again, drunk uncle Joe scared the kids and pooped the party...

As long as he targets a few red states I'm cool with it....

Wow, talk about hate, bigotry and prejudice and....you support Obama. Why isn't that surprising. It is sadly apparent that some those who support the democrats are not exactly playing with a full deck of cards here. You want to kill people who don't support your ideology?

My God, all of the claims of victory and false accusations by Republican supporters prove only one thing. Lying is extremely contagious. I don't believe that you caught it from it your candidates. I believe that you caught it from Fox and created your own lying candidates. The very best of your poor choice of candidates bowed out early. They wanted nothing to do with a 2012 massacre.

They knew their best hope was to lay low and and try to sneak in the gate in 2016. Your poor choice of Romney and Ryan have killed that hope. Welcome to the era of a new Republican blackout not experienced since the 1930's. The Republican revival of the 1950's will not be forthcoming. The Tea Party has driven your party to extinction.

New parties will emerge to provide competition,consensus and compromise out of necessity just as they did when the Whigs and Tories became obsolete. Sit back on your haunches and be patient with the knowledge that you either allowed this to happen or caused it to happen. You have no one to blame but yourselves.

Sarah you could never piss me off :-)

Seemed about even overall to me. both had their moments. why did they keep split screening to Biden and that "un-natural" grin. Once or twice, ok, but he did that for 90 minutes and seemed a bit condescending. Maybe that was just me but it didn't come across well on the tube. He was much more energetic than his boss though. Nothing at all to move the polls.

CNN poll had it 48% Ryan 44% Biden.

One thing i found funny was when Biden chastised Ryan for voting for 2 unfunded wars, "i was there i was against them". Only problem was Biden himself also voted for both wars. Doh!

Awwwww, too bad lefties. The 1st post debate poll results are in, from CNN no less. And the winner is................ Paul Ryan 48%, Cracker Joe 44%. My guess is this is as close as it gets as more and more independents decide Cracker Joe was just a jerk, masquerading as V.P. Lets see, looking disinterested, bored, and clueless didn't work. Arrogant, condescending, rude, borderline insane, not so well either. Guess its back to the drawing board for team Obama and his trusty sidekick, Cracker Joe.

Joe took Eddie Munster out back to the shed and gave him an old fashioned thrashing!

Wow, awesome!

And Lyin Ryan actually admitted his position is to ban abortion with NO exceptions. He actually said it! Big trouble for the Transvaginal Probe Party!

Biden looked like an idiot and acted like a petulant monkey tonight. But I guess when you have a losing record and you can't actually defend your moronic policies, you come to the debate without any ammo.

Do you have an original thought? I have a crayola you can borrow if you want to write it down.

Michigan Mark

Jim Spence,

In defense of Sarah,

I think your absolutely obnoxious .

Go back to your flat earth...and take that theocrat ryan with ya.

Congratulations Mark, you're indoctrination is complete.

Sarah-3043284

Call me when your church has to pass out the Plan B pill in the tithing basket. I'll defend you too.

Well a few of the companies my wife consults for told their employees they won't be paying for their insurance to cover their contraceptives (unless medically necessary obviously). Every woman she talked to about that said they laughed at the whole argument being ridiculous. They said they would never expect anyone to pay for their contraceptives for recreational sex.

BTW, I never saw a BCP in the tithe but I did see a pack of Doublemint gum in it once.

ROMNEY/RYAN 2012 FOR REAL AMERICANS©

Oh for @!$%#'s sake, I don't mean to be rude or curse (okay I'm lying I meant to curse) but really...

Robert,

Are you really engaging a stranger in a debate about their opinion of my opinion of Kornfed and Jim's opinions?

Again, if someone doesn't like what I have to say, just click ignore. Same goes for any poster.

Jim,

Even God needs fresh breath?

BigATC,

Sarah you could never piss me off :-)

I love a challenge. Give it time, buddy, give it time. :)

BigATC and hardtostarboard,

Guess you guys only watch tv and don't listen to the speakers, just like you don't read the articles here before you post on the Vine.

CNN said the poll came back Ryan 48% - Biden 44% and, allowing for the margin of error, it was a complete tie.

Try to keep up on the facts, guys.

Overlord. Ryan did mention the republican 3 exceptions for abortion .... rape, incest and mothers health. That must have been your nature break.

I said it before the debate: if the Republicans are whining and crying about Joe being mean to their kid that would be the sign that Joe spanked his butt!

Joe laughed at Ryan because he was lying and it's clear to Joe and everyone else that Ryan has no business being #2 in line to be president! NO WAY can Ryan be trusted to run the free world.

• Game, Set, Match --- Biden.
• I almost felt sorry for Lyan Ryan.

BigATC

Overlord. Ryan did mention the republican 3 exceptions for abortion .... rape, incest and mothers health. That must have been your nature break.

No, you didn't pay attention. He said a life is a life and he made NO distinction... go back and listen he admits he is against abortion for any reason because "a life is a life" and it is a "principle." He was just lying and saying that their ticket has the exceptions included. Nobody with a brain would believe that since Mr Personhood Bill (Ryan) wants to also criminalize birth control pills! NO, REALLY!

Why does it not surprise me that everyone missed Ryan's math? Maybe because so many people suck at math perhaps? Let me explain it since I have not seen a single post mention it.

Ryan "even if we increase taxes on the rich and small business owners by 100%" meaning Mitt would pay a 28% effective rate and not all his money like he tries to make it sound "that would only run the government for ninety eight days", "there are not enough rich people to tax". Now what does his dumb a$$ say next? "We take in 1.2 trillion in income tax" (which is not just the tax on the rich, the max we could get is another 1.2 trillion if we doubled their rates like he says even if they paid all of the income taxes which they do not), "there are 1.1 trillion in loopholes and deductions"... The same ones you are going to eliminate? Therefore, how much could we possibly save? 1.2 trillion is bigger then 1.1 trillion is it not? Therefore, how long is the government going to run if you cut out all those loopholes and deductions? Ninety eight days to about double that since the maximum you can get is 1.1 trillion, great plan. Are the rich the only ones the use those deductions? No they are not so once again how much can we possibly save?

We cannot just take 20% off of 1.2 trillion either since according to them the rich already pay the majority of taxes. If they are the majority then they pay over 50% of it then correct? That is at least 600 billion in revenue. People like Mitt that get away paying only 14% instead of 35% would pay nothing since they want to eliminate capital gains tax. Therefore, our revenue would drop by at least 600 billion and they are going to make that up with loopholes and deductions that many American families use? Thanks for finally sharing some info, it was exactly what I expected a circle jerk that does nothing, but make the group of people that do not have money pay even more. If Mitt and others were forced to pay 35% like they should be that would be over 600 billion in increased revenue. How much would the poor baby still have made even after he gave X amount to charity? Pretty sure he would still be getting rewarded better then 99.9% of the population in this country.

His third bottom line of his and Mitt's goals "Don't lower the share of income that is born by the high income earners". In other words the rich keep all the money and ill gotten gains they already have. Taxes will not go up on them and loopholes will not get closed. The other two are B.S. since you cannot have all three. In his closing statement he says something similar. I felt like a used car salesman was trying to sell me on a piece of chit that was going to break down as soon as I pulled out of the parking lot. I already know who you are going to support and sell out to if you and Mitt get elected.

Hey a-hole across the pond they have national healthcare. How can they have a form of Obamacare and afford it all at the same time? How many insurance companies do they have there? Could that be why our health costs is so high, insurance companies?

Now imagine if we cut out those loopholes, let the Bush era tax cuts for everyone expire, raised capital gains tax back to 35%, reinstated the Glass Stegall act, etc.? What effect would that have on our debt? I bet it would actually go down. Why that is such a bad f***ing idea? I bet Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, etc. would not be running into trouble or need to fixed.

You want to kill people who don't support your ideology?

No mygirl1, I don't want to kill anyone.. I was being just as absurd as you were. That's also why I posted the ";)" winky smile after my post.

btw When Obama and Biden win the election next month, it'll be OK. Really.

nbc poll Ryan 56% Biden 36%, 8% undecided. did i just hear that right from the tube?

I read the article silver, and i also said i thought it was about even. 48 -44 is about even i just didn't feel the need to talk about "margins of error" as that is basically a tie anyway.

Go back to the tape and at one point you can see Ryan's eyes are bloodshot and he appears like he's going to either cry or take a crap. He was in way over his head. There is no way he is qualified to be President of the US. What a scary thought that is.

Ryan was drinking all of that water because all of the lies he was telling kept getting caught in his throat..LOL...

Are you really engaging a stranger in a debate about their opinion of my opinion of Kornfed and Jim's opinions?

No, not at all - I'm disputing the "schooling" part, not the opinion part. I've read quite a few of your posts and found them to be nothing but advertising for the Democratic party (and probably paid advertising at that). I keep reading hoping you will surprise me with an actual critique of the Democratic party, but so far I've been disappointed.

I'm curious to see the differences between NBC's Truth Squad and Fact Check. Truth is abstract and subjective. Facts are concrete and objective. Ex. Truth Squad states that the Republican Congress voted to decrease security by $300 million. Fact: It would not have passed without the 149 democrat votes.

Facts show that Biden was incorrect when he stated that he voted against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Will Fact Check find that everyone in America was aware of details regarding the lack of security and subsequent attack on the consulate in Libya weeks before this administration did? Will Fact Check support or refute Ryan's attempted or Biden's interrupting answers regarding the economy and jobs?

CBS poll had Biden 50%, Ryan 31% , tied 19%

Republican comments are comical, we know you have no moral reservations about stealing elections and apparently you also want to steal this debate... no one watching could possibly say that Ryan won the debate. He looked like a high school kid debating... well, a Vice President of the US.

Robert,

Right, his opinion was that my opinion "schooled" their opinions. So yes, that's precisely what you're doing.

And I'm way too broke to be getting paid for this, but I'm flattered that you think I have that level of skill.

I'm assuming you haven't read everything I've posted, so here's a quick idea. PERHAPS, if you want my opinion of the cons of the Democratic Party, you can post something along these lines...

"Sarah, so you seem to be left/Democratic leaning, is there anything about the party or the platform that you disagree with? And what are your reasonings for that?"

Who knows, I might just surprise you.

All I know is Biden alternated between looking like someone was pumping laughing gas through his microphone, and the look babies get right after they've spit their pacifier in the floor. Priceless!

It's confirmed... both Obama and Biden are in over their heads and were outmatched by their successors!

Biden reminded me of my strange Uncle, who at Thanksgiving dinner constantly interupts whoever is speaking with comments than make no sense.... good night sleepy joe, be thankful there's no second debate!

DB Akron

Jim Spence & Korn fed

If that is what being a Liberal is all about, then I want no parts of it, EVER!

DB, don't be too hard on the Libbies. Unfortunately their solutions to most problems in life are based on emotions rather than logic. Their indoctrination into the social and economic justice nonsense doesn't allow them any rational thought or self determination.

This is why Barrack Husseins convoluted concept of governing by things being "fair" is so ridiculous. They believe in things like a "fair share", "level-playing-fields" and "it's the right thing to do".

To dismiss, or actually confuse, a Liberal about this, all you have to do is ask them to define fair, or what is a level playing field. If they still struggle simply ask them who the perfectly unbiased, honest, arbiter is who can decide what is fair or level. Usually their eyes glaze over and they start stuttering.

At this point they see that Progressivism is an abject failure as it is he cause of all the problems we, and actually many other nations, are having. Feeling good doesn't pay the bills. They live on symbolism rather than substance. Their fear of independence is really being exposed and many of them are just scared. When we take the White House and both Houses back in November they know they'll actually have to become responsible once again.

This is unknown territory for most of them.

ROMNEY/RYAN 2012 FOR REAL AMERICANS©

Robert: "owned","schooled","played","beaten".. The words are interchangeable in my world. All I know is that I wouldn't want to debate Sarah! She'd probably take me to the wood shed like Biden took Ryan tonite! ;)

"Sarah, so you seem to be left/Democratic leaning, is there anything about the party or the platform that you disagree with? And what are your reasonings (sic) for that?"

I'll bite. Sarah, so you seem to be left/Democratic leaning, is there anything about the party or the platform that you disagree with? And what are your reasons for that?

Something tells me your "complaints" against the left will be thinly veiled insults aimed at the right, but I'll let you speak (type) and then I'll make up my mind.

Btw, had he prefaced it with "My opinion is..." then you would have a point. Unfortunately he posted it as a fact, which makes it a perfectly fair game.

Sarah,

The "ignore" button might keep you from reading and responding, but then they get the last word in and you might not really want that.

Sleepy Joe? That's a joke. Everyone saw Biden humiliate Ryan in front of the country. That's what happens when you lie and refuse to give details about your plans.

Ryan deserved his thumping. He was in way over his head when he bumbled around about Afghanistan. His prepared schpeel about the tax plan was laughable and he flat our refused to name even ONE deduction or loophole they would close to raise 5Trillion dollars for their tax scheme! Big lies!

Ryan gulped water because he was choked up and ready to cry for his momma. He was not comfortable on that big stage and Joe relished undoing his tapestry of lies and deceit.

Ryan wants to gut the middle class, outlaw abortion, criminalize hormonal contraception, and refuses to give one detail on how they will manage their high-wire act!

You can't make this stuff up! As the debate is digested it will be obvious Joe dominated him and exposed Ryan for the ideological amateur his is.

Silverton, yes I heard Wolf's explanation, but ask yourself, what sense did it make? Why would there be any error in a poll asking who won? The numbers are what they are. There are 6% who were undecided, but statistically, both Biden and Ryan would get 3% each so now Paul has 51%, Cracker Joe has 47%. Now I can't speak for you, where you went to school, or how well you did in math, but where I came from, 48 is a bigger number than 44. If Wolf wants to call that a dead heat, I guess thats his right, but its also a stretch. Granted this wasn't the ass kicking Romney laid on Joe's boss, but this was a long, long way from the beat down you and your leftist friends are claiming. Much closer to the fact is Cracker Joe lost, not by much, but he lost. The bad news is his performance will leave avery bad taste in he mouths of independants. Not only did Cracker Joe not stop the bleeding, it will get worse.

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better 8)

hands down Biden was an @!$%# tonight he is supposed to be the Vice President instead we got smiling Joker who kept interrupting Ryan over and over again.

No Thanks

Anybody else but Obama and Biden

Worst President in America = Obama

Robert: "owned","schooled","played","beaten".. The words are interchangeable in my world. All I know is that I wouldn't want to debate Sarah! She'd probably take me to the wood shed like Biden took Ryan tonite! ;)

If she took you like Biden took Ryan tonight she would be coming across as a 12 year old. Properly insulting someone is very difficult - you have to do it so subtly that a casual observer doesn't think you are a jerk and the Vice President simply failed at that. I always think about international chess when I think about how to do this properly. At the highest level, whoever can insult their opponent will gain a huge advantage, but the World Chess Federation will not stand for boorish behavior. You have to be very subtle while getting your point across. The classic example is what Bobby Fischer did to Boris Spassky in their world championship match. Fischer punked Spassky hard, but the casual bystander didn't even realize there was an insult. That is how the game should be played and Biden with his childish behaviour simply failed to live up to that challenge.

Obama and the Cracker will be down another 3% by this time next week, if they're lucky.

DB,

Why would I want to put them on ignore? I have no problem being engaged. It's just funny how some go about it. Plus, then I'd have to go back to my research paper, since I'm out of Sons of Anarchy episodes to watch.

Robert,

Btw, had he prefaced it with "My opinion is..." then you would have a point. Unfortunately he posted it as a fact, which makes it a perfectly fair game.

If you can't pick out an opinion from a universal fact without it being "prefaced", that's not his problem.

Something tells me your "complaints" against the left will be thinly veiled insults aimed at the right, but I'll let you speak (type) and then I'll make up my mind.

Way to keep an open mind. Here goes...

1. They've sold out to the whole "Super Pac" system. I understand that they have to play the political game, however they are also in a position to put in place mechanisms that can lead to the reversal of Citizens United and Buckley v Valeo. They haven't done so.

2. They pussied out on Wall St reform.

3. NDAA. Bad, bad, piece of legislation, which should have been vetoed.

4. They need to raise the freaking age for Medicare and SS, and means test for it. Period. You can do this gradually. People are living longer and remaining healthier longer. I have no problem, as a younger person who would be effected by this, seeing this done.

5. The bureaucracy in our government needs to be shrunk. Why do we have the FBI, DEA, ATF, HLS, CIA, NSA, DOD, INS... I mean, really? How much money do we waste on redundant positions, jurisdictions and jobs? This doesn't just go for law enforcement, it goes for ALL of government.

6. They've yet to fix our trade policies. We have leverage against China. We're their biggest market. Why are we racing them back to the guilded age? Oh yes, because our politicians ON BOTH SIDES, are bought by the corporations who want to utilize their sweatshops.

7. Labor union reform. Clean shop on the unions. Get rid of first in last out, get rid of the nepotism, get rid of the protections for unethical and/or incompetent workers.

8. The war on drugs. We're bleeding money over what? Weed? @!$%#, we could create a whole new taxable industry here. Legalize and regulate drugs. Funnel some of the money we bring in from it, into mental health and community programs, and watch the violent crime rate drop.

GOP has already put out its new Laughing Joe ad. Check it out. Would be funny, if it wasn't so pathetic. Yes, this guy is really our current Vice President!?!

@Sarah,

I will admit you surprised me; I was wrong about you being a mindless drone for the Democratic party. Most of your criticism is valid IMHO. I especially liked the complaint against the NDAA - I never in my life thought I would see a bill like that signed into law in America. I will also add HR 347 to that by the way.

I will respectfully disagree with you on point 6. Maintaining free trade is very important because it lets you take advantage of economies of scale, one of the easiest ways to make a nation rich. That is a minor disagreement though so I will close this by saying:

Great post! The first vote you got on post 1.275 was mine.

Robert,

Thanks. And you have a great night!

Robert, now you know why i refer to her as "Sarah my favorite democrat" :-) Although i imagine we disagree on more than we agree, she is always civil and does have an open mind. For a girl, anyway :)

The NDAA baffles me too. One of the worst pieces of legislation i can remember.

And I leave with this:

"If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet." Proverbs 29:9

Hum... Reminds me somehow of Joe Biden...(I know crazy)

Go Joe. Boy did he set the kid straight. Go grow up and then come back Ryan my boy.

One more reason we can’t afford 4 more years! BIDEN has some SERIOUSL MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES and is CLEARLY "UNFIT TO LEAD" the nation as second in command.

By contrast, Ryan was calm, rational, articulate and respectful!

Romney/Ryan 2012 Rational leadership for America!

Martha Raddatz should NEVER have been a moderator. You can clearly see which side she was favoring. It's kind of hard to look at the debate when all you can see is her butting in....... Why didn't NBC do something about this?

Democrats keep asking Romney and Ryan to "do the math", and it's "arithmetic".

At least they are still trying.

The Dems put down the pencil and paper years ago. They don't even care about the debt anymore. They have absolutely no plan to lower our deficit. If they did, then where has it been the last four years? And the Libs still think that they will magically have a plan come next year!? A vote for Obama is a vote for (at least) $22 Trillion in debt by 2016.

They blame it on Bush's wars and deficits, while our current president runs deficits that are three times greater. Well, keep on bashing R&R: At least they are trying to tackle the problem- instead of waiting for the next generation to deal with it. Have you ever stopped and thought about how America will pay off this debt? First we will have to not have a yearly deficit. Second we have to have a surplus that can actually go to pay off the debt. The money we lose in interest is insane.

Biden took care of rich little smug ass. Now Obama needs to do the same the next two times with the Mormon smug ass. Obama is no prize but the rich people don't need another 15% tax break. They have enough now.

Two for two. And as an Independent I didn't vote for either one last election and don't know if I like either one this time but I love the stupidity of the people who want to try to tell us to vote black or white because it's the right thing to do. The right thing to do is to take away your right to vote stupidly. But we won't do that because we allow stupid people to vote too....as we see today. Educate yourself and pay attention to reality. Not commercials. Even if the product advertised as the best isn't.

Unhappy-1583758

Martha Raddatz should NEVER have been a moderator. You can clearly see which side she was favoring. It's kind of hard to look at the debate when all you can see is her butting in

ohhhh someone is mad that their boyfriend lost....as expected, you blame it on the moderator

I always thought Biden was an idiot, now I KNOW he is! Was he drunk or on drugs last night? Trust him? NEVER!

Biden took care of looked like a rich little smug ass

Fixed that for ya!

You people are Drinking the high powered coolaide today. Biden was laughing at how ridiculous the lies were coming from Ryan's mouth. He did no different than that Mitty Rmoney (except he did give respect to the moderator) . Oh it was ok that Rmoney was aggressive with President Obama, but now you claim Biden was an idiot? People please! Biden did what he was suppose to do and did it the way he was suppose to. You want the little snot nose Lyin Ryan to be able to continue his lies like Rmoney but GET THIS...IT DIDN'T WORK FOR HIM OR YOU TEABAG/REPUBS LAST NIGHT....Sorry Call Biden what you like ... he whipped Ryans butt and sent him for a diaper change. Be glad Biden was as polite as he was. And we still have no answers from Ryan.

...their proposed changes to Medicare. The most recent version of the proposal would offer seniors a rebate to buy insurance on the private market, or opt into a Medicare program as it’s more traditionally known.

“A voucher is you go to your mailbox, get a check, and buy something. Nobody's proposing that."

Ryan was playing the usual GOP word games. They don't want to call their plan to gut Medicare a 'voucher' but that's exactly what it is.

I'll give Ryan this: he can lie with a straight face. A monkey face, but a straight face.

Don't be fooled by GOP liars! It's astounding how freely Romney and Ryan lie their butts off to the American people.

I'm supporting people I can trust to do right by the middle class: OBAMA/ BIDEN

The reason these debates mean so little is because people don't listen, they obsess the whole time over if someone is arrogant or not looking at the right things, and the facts, on both sides end up tortured and rehearsed. However there are some things to look for and that makes things a little more clear as to where things are going. Anyone not looking to simply pick up everything they can to justify that their side is right will end up (hopefully) with the same results. For instance: Biden, an obvious lifer in Washington, he knows what he believes and has a lot of time doing it so he has a lot of details and sees these issues as quite complex. In premise he is right to try and do what he is doing but he seemed to only barely touch on the greater need to REALLY fix things in Washington...which, for anyone really paying attention, is something that is not likely to happen either way. Ryan looked like a respectable and not overly contentious bump-on-a-log. He is full of grand gestures of fixing everything and making everything great...I even heard more references to five-point plans and how everything will be great if he and Romney get in but I also saw him confronted with asking for the same bail-out money (to create jobs) in the stimulus bill that he claims was should never have been passed and on several occasions saw him flat out dogde or refuse to say anything specific about how he and Romney plan to fix anything. Frankly, I came away from this debate thinking that the edge went to Biden but that Biden and Obama are muddled in the middle of what will continue to ail this country and that Ryan and Romney are out peddling snake oil remedies which will make us all rich, young and sexy. How anyone can walk away from this debate thinking, from a debate standpoint that Ryan won is beyond me..the edge, based on points went to Biden but in the end the loser will be us again because Obama and Biden aren't really fixing anything very well (ie. things are sort of staying the same) and Romney/Ryan are peddling nothing (or at least that is all an honest person can gleen from their refusal to in anyway outline in detail) to us. Perfect analogy. Imagine a teacher asks two students to submit a 5000 word paper on the cause of pollution and how to reduce it. Biden would turn in a paper 10,000 words long rolling all over the place telling us about all of these different things and devise a million complicated ways to barely change anything except add more levels of complication. Ryan would turn in a paragraph saying that they will turn in a paper which will deal with pollution and how to fix it and that when they are done the world will be new again and we will all have milk and honey as we bask in the gardens. This debate was a dog and pony show for idiots who want to imagine that their candidates have any idea at all how to fix the enormous mess we are all in.

Lyin' Ryan was sent home cryin'!

We finally had a debate. Who won ? I think it was a draw really in overall impact to the undecided voter. Perhaps even slanted to Ryan a little.

The most disturbing part of the evening for me was when the serious discussion of Irans nuclear capability was on the table , Biden continued to have that huge ronald Mc Donald smile saying "they don't have a missle to use it in" they don't have a missle". All I could think was, does he not think that when they are ready for a missle they can get one ? Scares the tar out of me that he feels so confortable allowing Iran to continue to develope warhead technology because he says they can't use it yet.

I was actually surprized at Ryans knowledge of forien affairs. To listen to the democrat's here and other vines he had no evperience or understanding of it. He proved otherwise to the ney sayers.

Biden lost his temper and began yelling like every other hot head bully on the planet when he couldn't rattle Ryan. Ryan on the other hand remained calm, never losing composure. I enjoyed the moment Ryan asked Biden to stop interupting.

In all I felt each was able to express their own views and get in a couple of zingers towrd the others Presidential candidate. What is the deciding factor for me as a true independant is Bidens lack of professianalism and Ryans calm and unwaivered demeaner.

Elloit #1,

Biden will either come off as an idiot or an ass.

You're right. He did.

F&B666

If you like the republican talking points you liked Ryan if you like the democrats talking points you liked Biden. Neither one was willing to give specifics about debt reduction or meaningful tax reform. Both candidates gave us a nice coating of crap and their followers bought it as predicted.

I'd like to bring up something that went completely overlooked by both the left AND the right.

From Biden:

Look, imagine had we let the Republican Congress work out the sanctions. You think there's any possibility the entire world would have joined us, Russia and China, all of our allies? These are the most crippling sanctions in the history of sanctions, period, period.

Ummmmm.... did Biden just call Russia and China our ALLIES???

Having worked in a Drug and Alcohol Detox Center for almost three years, I would be more than willing to bet my bank account that good ole "Uncle Joe" spent his past week or ten days in serious detox to get him sober and primed for the debate. The Obama administration didn't want to allow him to let any more truths slip out - as he did when he said, "The middle class has been crushed the past four years."

The reason ole Uncle Joe was laughing maniacally is because he was counting down the hour and a half or so before he could get back to that bottle of scotch that was, no doubt, waiting for him in his limo.

Joe looks so much like Sandusky....... and he's doing the same thing to the American people

Handsoffmymedicare

Ryan is GOING TO HAVE A DEATH PANEL AND KILL ME!!!!

Really? Obamacare has that provision in it already. Strange that our leaders made sure that they were exempt from this plan. If you read the law you will find out that you will be required to attend END OF LIFE COUNSELLING every 5 years after age 65. If you get cancer after 76 years of age you will receive counselling while Biden gets treatment. Maybe you think he is more important than you are I don't. The way I see it is the Crazy Joe is paid by my tax dollars and therefore is my EMPLOYEE.

I don't trust any politican that tells me that tells me that I won't get therapy while they will. I will listen to someone that is exempt and tells me that it is wrong. You see if you die that solves a problem for the government. You are no longer a liability to the budget.

These guys have told you what you have NO value to them and they are willing to take you down to prove their point. Those fools that believe that the program can be saved as it is currently funded is living in LALA land. More importantly the changes proposed gives my children and grand children a chance to have coverage when they retire since they will pay a fortune during their lifetime. Remember those kids will one day determine if they are going to pay for you.

Coral Taxi #1.33,

Privatize social security? Is this not an oxymoron?

Ever see any models on getting rid of that albatross? I ran one, on a spreadsheet. An eye-opener. Unless, of course, you trust the beltway boys to keep their grubby hands off it, or to continue fixing it since it came into being 76 years ago.

#1.48,

"Now he is Jack Kennedy",lol priceless! Told ya.

Yep. Real priceless. And Hoof-in-mouth is Loyd Bentsen. Neither was much of a pillar of the community. Quayle should have replied 'You're damn right I'm not.' at the late Senator's comment. Perhaps with something about what one's selection of friends says about the person.

So, Paul Ryan was constantly called out on what his and Romney's plan is. What I want to know is, what is Barrack Hussein and Joe Bidens plan is.

The only thing I hear from Barrack Hussein is to tax the rich and to make things "fair".

OK, we tax the rich more, this generates another $850 billion over 10 years. That's $85 billion a year. We spend $10 billion every day. So the "tax the rich" scheme will pay off 8.5 days of debt, what do we do for the other 356.5 days?

We just increased the debt ceiling last August by $2.4 trillion. We will be out of money AGAIN by the first quarter of 2012. What do we do then? Raise it again? How much?

What are the other solutions from Barrack Hussein to reduce our debt? What cuts, other than the usual bogeyman "military industrial complex", are offered? We have added $5.4 trillion of debt in less than 4 years, how much more do we need to add to begin the magical decrease in our massive and unsustainable debt?

I didn't see Martha Raddatz pushing this issue on Joe "Bite Me" Biden.

Plus, when will we be told the truth about Benghazi? It's been a month and we still don't have a cohesive explanation why 4 Americans were murdered. Seems Barrack Hussein wants to drag this out until after the elections to be able to grant Executive Privelege like he did to Eric Holder about "Fast N Furious".

ROMNEY/RYAN 2012 FOR REAL AMERICANS©

@FRANK;

Coral Taxi

Your a bit mixed up.

Obama wants to send the Syrian rebels aka al-qaeda $150 million dollars of your borrowed money.

No sir you are the mixed up one. I was talking about weapons, not aide. The pittance you are talking about is to feed refugees. I stated previous on another vine that we even feed our enemies, as an example to Romney of how we do not "lead from behind". The Arab spring countries begged our help, and we gave it to them successfully, this is not "leading from behind", The Chinese copy and steal everything from windows OS, to our stealth, this is "leading from behind". We are the most powerfull country on earth, number one in manufacturing , we do not lead from behind sir.

More specious words from the Romney/Ryan ticket.

@ fair and balanced;

Ever see any models on getting rid of that albatross? I ran one, on a spreadsheet. An eye-opener

Ever see a senior citizen who worked hard all their life paying in go hungry, to save for their meds? That is a real eye opener also sir.

Which is exactly what would happen if we got rid of that "Albatross",, or privatized it.

Sarah: WOW!! You and I have "sparred" in the past but I just saw your post at #1.275 and was pleasantly surprised. I think what that shows is that Conservatives and Liberals really ARE closer than our political representatives in D.C. portray. Do we disagree on some things? Absolutely. Are we passionate about certain things? Certainly. But if we can all get in a room and talk to each other like adults, listen to the opinions of those who we disagree with, and come up with some reasonable compromises we could succeed. So why can't our politicians do that?

And trying to NOT get partisan after the above comments quite honestly this country has been able to do that for over 200 years except for just the recent past. Unfortunately Obama divided this country in 2009 even telling Republicans to "ride in the back". Quite condescending. Even today Obama doesn't want a discussion - he states what he wants and it is either "my way or the highway". But your post in #1.275 shows that the "my way or the highway" concept is unnecessary.

I actually believe our political views are closer than what is represented in D.C. Do we differ in passionate topics like taxes and redistribution. Yes. But can we talk about these like adults? The answer there is "yes" as well.

What has always amazed me about D.C. is their desire (both parties) to want to do total implementation of their beliefs. Nobody is always right and nobody is always wrong. Why can't we "test" new concepts and ideas? Obama says "ObamaCare" will lower health care costs. Economic theory proves otherwise but why can't we "test"? Find a city that supports the idea and implement in a city (Chicago, Detroit, LA, etc.) and try it for a year or two? If it doesn't work then go back to the "drawing board" but only have to reverse for one city and not an entire country. If it works then implement in ANOTHER city (to see if it was only a regional success). If THAT works then plan a more extensive implementation.

Same concept for Republican ideas. We think lowering taxes will increase economic growth and ultimately create INCREASED tax revenue to the government. Democrats disagree. So why can't we "test"? Find a city will to be the "guinea pig". Try it for a year or two and see what happens. If it doesn't work and economic growth does NOT occur, and tax revenues decrease, then go back to the "drawing board". If it works then find another city willing to try. If THAT works then a more extensive roll-out to test on a greater scale.

Quite honestly I did not have much respect for you in the past for the many comments I had read but I am willing to admit your post at #1.275 makes me reconsider. Is there a way Democrats and Republicans can get along? Yes. But it requires the ability to listen to both sides and both opinions. If we can do that why can't our politicians in D.C. do that?

@ spence;

The President’s 2013 Budget is built around the idea that our country does best
when everyone gets a fair shot, does their fair share, and plays by the same
rules.

This is it in a nutshell, the rest of this article is about how we need to be more fiscally responsibe ourselves, and about innovation, two things that I have previously said are utmost important to America to continue moving forward. WE have became more fiscally responsible as many have cut their debt, and businesses are wtaching every dime. eg Business class on South West vs. a G5 to L.A, or NY. Less excess, A hyundai instead of a lexus . You get the picture.

What I want to know is, what is Barrack Hussein and Joe Bidens plan is.

Here spence,this will enlighten you to the pros and cons of both plans, Obama has much more pros than cons here as you will see.

http://www.npr.org/2012/09/05/160607524/journalist-evaluates-obama-romney-economic-plans

Note the negatives are in quote marks, as they are others opinions not facts.I do not agree with a few things here but just for fyi.

Obama has a 2013 budget? Well, THAT would be the first budget he's had since he's been in office!!!

Coral: I read your post and the most telling sentence, which you probably didn't catch, was the sentence at the end of that article which stated that while the COUNTRY was doing better, the households (citizens) were not.

Don't know about you, however, I always think the 'households' aka: citizens ARE the country. If you have a stunning economy and an impoverished citizenry, you have a failure of epic proportions or else a totalitarian state.

@Sarah: Your last post above mine was spot-on. Hmmm, interesting how people, when the distortions and partisan bickering are turned off, are so much closer than they appear. Now is the time for intelligent conversation, away from the noise and party machinations. We, the people, are being gulled by both parties.

@dee,dee,my girl;

Yes I read the last sentence, but it seems most of my neighbors are doing just fine

You see below even the experts were wrong, just as they are in parts of that article, but I like to show both sides.Read on young ladies.

It was well above the median forecast for a slight decline to 78 among economists polled by Reuters.

The new buoyancy among consumers comes shortly after the U.S. unemployment rate tumbled to its lowest level in nearly four years in September as more people returned to the workforce and found jobs than economist had predicted.

"We are getting some quite interesting signals from consumer sentiment and employment data - both (the) unemployment rate and initial claims - that there has been some quite significant improvement in the economy," said David Sloan, an economist at 4Cast in New York.

You see you can choose to go backwards and let the "fat cats" have their way again and nickel and dime you to death with unfair fees and regulations, or as I have shown you above continue to move.. wait for it , wait for it.. FORWARD!!!

So do not sit here and tell me things are worse, they are not and are getting better slowly but surely,why turn back the clock? Imagine hoping for gloom and doom so you can get elected.

Everybody Has one request from Romney . "Show me the money!!!"

Ummmmm, Coral Taxi you do realize that California's 15-25K unemployed were NOT included in the BLS report, right? That's why there was an unexpected "shift" in the jobless numbers.

@dee dee;

The main point is we are moving forward now. Romney is a scary choice, I do not say that lightly.

Coral Taxi: Moving forward?

1) Unemployment rate of black americans - higher than the day Obama took office.

2) Unemployment rate of hispanic americans - higher than the day Obama took office.

3) Unemployment rate of women - higher than the day Obama took office.

4) Unemployment rate of teenagers - higher than the day Obama took office.

5) Unemployment rate of ALL americans - higher than the day Obama took office.

6) There are less americans working today than were working the day Obama took office.

7) When Obama took office 28.2 million were using Food Stamps - now it is 44.7 million (1 in 7 now using Food Stamps)

8) 1 in 6 are now considered in Poverty (highest percent since the 70's)

9) Lowest Labor-Participation rate since the 70's

10) Highest percent unemployed 6 months or more since the Great Depression

11) Worst economic recovery in United States history (3 years after a recession "officially" over GDP growth at only 1.3%?).

12) Obama added over $6 Trillion to the National Debt which in FOUR years is 50% MORE than Bush added in EIGHT years!!

13) Obama promised if he was able to spend nearly $1 Trillion in his stimulus unemployment would not go above 8% but AFTER wasting nearly $1 Trillion we had 43 straight months of unemployment OVER 8%.

I'm sorry - if that is your definition of "moving forward" I REALLY don't want to see what Obama has planned for the NEXT four months if reelected!! This country can't SURVIVE another 4 years of Obama!! This Obama administration is the textbook definition of FAILURE!!

Ok, I declare Mr ProBusiness THE WINNER OF this Debate so he has the LAST WORD here!!!

p>

5) Unemployment rate of ALL americans - higher than the day Obama took office.

Did you just completely ignore this in my posts?

after the U.S. unemployment rate tumbled to its lowest level in nearly four years in September as more people returned to the workforce and found jobs than economist had predicted.

No it is not it has went down and there has been job growth, I just gave you example of this. To blame Obama for the unemployment rate is not fair. The unemployment rate has gone below than when he started. What you fail to see are the contributors to unemployment which are automation(not Obamas fault) Outsourcing (Far from Obamas fault) People giving up the search(Not Obamas fault).

As the overall U.S. unemployment rate stayed at 8.2% in June, the rate among black Americans rose nearly a full percentage point.

WOW This must be Obamas fault.lol

The reason for the increase appears to have been a rise in the percentage of African-Americans looking for a job, rather than job losses.

Nice try but like your boys words yours to are specious.

• The unemployment rate for blacks rose to 14.4% from 13.6% in May, the Labor Department reported Friday. That's a sharp contrast to the white unemployment rate, which stayed put at 7.4%, and the Hispanic rate, which held at 11%.

This trend is not a new one, as the black unemployment rate has been roughly double that of whites since the government started tracking the figures in 1972.

New to you though right Pro?lol

There are less americans working today than were working the day Obama took office.

Not true as I have shown you, and this is redundancy on your list.

When Obama took office 28.2 million were using Food Stamps - now it is 44.7 million (1 in 7 now using Food Stamps)

You blame the president for much that is not his fault, but I will refute your specious points one by one.

Mitt Romney claims President Barack Obama caused a doubling of able-bodied persons on food stamps by taking “work out of the food stamps requirement.” That’s an exaggeration. All but four states had already received waivers from specific work requirements for some or all of their residents before Obama became president.

The total number of persons getting food stamps is up 46 percent since Obama took office, a big jump but far short of a doubling. Romney is referring only to single, childless adults of working age, who normally qualify for food stamps for only three months unless they work part-time or live in areas where jobs are scarce or unemployment tops 10 percent.

Prime example of how wrong you are to Blame Obama. He had to pass measures so people would not starve from fallout of the recession, Would you like to see them starve?

@Pro; Let me preface by saying that Obama is accountable for lack of improvement at the rate he promised. Even Obama holds himself accountable for this. My point to you and your constituents is that you are placing way to much blame on Obama for problems beyond his control,(or already existed). After years of trudging through the mud the tires are finally starting to hit the pavement for a much smoother ride, we are still in 2nd gear, but we are shifting gears which is obvious in the latest reports on the economy and unemployment rates.If you wish to blow the transmission and throw it in reverse then vote Romney.

Me personally I would like to keep moving forward.

8) 1 in 6 are now considered in Poverty (highest percent since the 70's)

Not true the true number is like 1 in 10. The main contributor to this above and beyond the president, are wages, companies are paying at a much lower level now. The lack of education for some aslo contributes to their poverty, by 2018 45% of jobs will require at least a bachelors degree, that is astounding, and shows that people need to build a good foundation with a college education, even if they wish to enter a trade, or face poverty, the Presidents fault? I think not.The rise of this problem will not be stopped by any candidate, the solution to this starts from the bottom up, not the other way around.Get IT pRO?

12) Obama added over $6 Trillion to the National Debt which in FOUR years is 50% MORE than Bush added in EIGHT years!!

You guys are incredible. When Obama took office the deficit was already at 1.7 tril annually. With an 8 trillion rise already in place over the next decade.The deficit has been around since dirt, and has been rising at eye poppoing levels since 1982. Here before this President it will be here after this President. Both parties can try to tame it,but they will never stop it.

. Unemployment rate of women - higher than the day Obama took office.

And this is Obamas fault how?

One of the president's former top economic advisers said those who blame President Barack Obama's policies for the decline in job creation among women in particular are being dishonest.

"That's someone trying to lie with numbers," Christina Romer said Wednesday.

–The former chairperson of the Council of Economic Advisers said the disparity between men and women, recently seized upon by Republicans, is the result of repercussions from the economic downturn beyond the president's control.

This article goes much deeper on this, I am just trying to show you not to play the blame game so much, on something a president cant control, has Your boy, mentioned the unemployment rate of women and how he will fix it? LOL

More in a bit. Let you chew on these for awhile

@pro;

13) Obama promised if he was able to spend nearly $1 Trillion in his stimulus unemployment would not go above 8% but AFTER wasting nearly $1 Trillion we had 43 straight months of unemployment OVER 8%.

Umm not any longer it is at 7.4%, we have had to, and are having to adjust to automation, outsourcing, people just plain giving up the search,gridlock in congress,and the senate, people rejecting higher education.

But all these things are Obama's fault, right?

Let me tell you next time you put out a list, do your homework. Romney scares me much more than about the economy, Romney's foreign policy and his cander toward other countries has me scared. Like I said the other day...

Obama walks softly and carries a big stick.(and he is not afraid to use it) Whilst Romney speaks loudly and carries a twig, and this twig is no olive branch.Believe that.

So you can choose to go backwards and let the banks have their way with you again, make it harder to keep, and attain health care, have a greater chance of war, loose the momentum we have now of decimating terrorist leaders weekly, and stop the growth which we finally have started, then vote Romney.

If you wish to continue to move forward, rather than start all over again then vote Obama. Over years I have usually stayed out of politics on the vines,(rough game,lol) but this year I could not take the lies and specious ways of the Romney/Ryan ticket, and how Obama was wrongly being blamed for every sneeze in America.

Coral Taxi: Moving forward?

Yes Pro, Forward is Forward, no matter what the pace this you can not deny, so yes,moving Forward Pro.

Coral Taxi: When you have to post four different times trying to somehow justify your incorrect statements that is certainly a sign. You can make up your own posts but you can't make up your own facts. All the items I listed are easily found in GOVERNMENT websites (Bureau of Labor Statistics, Bureau of Economic Analysis, Department of Labor, and so on). I suggest you become familiar with the governmental data because as much as Liberals believe it appropriate you CANNOT just "make it up as you go". Look it up.

@pro;

Incorrect statements? Is that all you have to say, show me do not tell me. I posted 4 times because you gave me alot ot answer to and I did. Make up my own facts? Which ones are made up?lol You are just making blanket statements, after I showed you how you can not blame Obama for it all.. MAKE IT UP AS i GO?!! What have I made up? YOu are accusing but not proving. I refuted your list big time,and you have noithing to say,but I am making it all up?

Let me tell you I might offer my opinion mam,but I do not make stuff up you can bet the farm on that.

I blew your list out of the water, and showed you how you can not blame Obama for it all(with source and example). you come back with nothing but accusations. Your post shows frustration and anger. If I am wrong on something show me, you called me out, I did not call you out. Do not be angry when you are poked back harder.