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Social media election sentiment for Thursday, Oct. 4. Click the image for the full report.
The immediate consensus that Mitt Romney won Wednesday's presidential debate has eroded significantly as fact-checkers have weighed in and supporters of President Barack Obama have fought back, according to NBCPolitics' computer-assisted analysis of more than 1.3 million post-debate comments on social media.
The analysis suggests that as debate over a news event continues unmediated over time, the impact of the conventional wisdom of journalists and partisan commentators can be mitigated.
Before the debate, Romney partisans — never shy about criticizing what many of them see as the news media's bias against Republicans — had predicted that Obama would be declared the "winner" regardless of how it unfolded:
Twitter.com — 8:55 p.m. ET Oct. 3
But as soon as the debate had finished Wednesday night, commentators and television analysts — including some generally considered sympathetic to Obama — agreed that the president had lost:
MSNBC's Chris Matthews shares his disappointment with President Barack Obama's debate performance.
Twitter.com — 10:55 p.m. ET Oct. 3
As the consensus spread through the news cycle, it was echoed on Twitter and Facebook on Thursday, according to NBCPolitics' analysis, which examined slightly more than 1.3 million postings beginning at 10:30 p.m. ET Wednesday, when the debate concluded, through 11 a.m. ET Friday.
NBCPolitics.com uses a tool called ForSight, a data platform developed by Crimson Hexagon Inc., which many research and business organizations have adopted to gauge public opinion in new media. It isn't the same as traditional surveys, which seek to reflect national opinion; instead, it's a broad, non-predictive snapshot of what's being said by Americans who follow politics and are active on Facebook, Twitter or both at a particular moment in time, and why they're saying it.
More social media analysis from NBCPolitics.com
Explainer: Can you scientifically quantify social media opinion?
Obama took a beating Thursday, reflecting the view that he had been passive and had passed up opportunities to attack Romney:
Crimson Hexagon Inc. and NBCPolitics.com
Twitter.com — 10:40 p.m. ET Oct. 3
Twitter.com — 10:12 p.m. ET Oct. 3
A visual representation of the discussion in the 90 minutes immediately after the debate, as pundits chewed it over on TV postgame shows, indicates the breadth of consensus. Notice that even when people talked about Obama, one of the primary subtopics was "Romney Won The Debate":
Crimson Hexagon Inc. and NBCPolitics.com
Now look again. Even as Romney was being hailed as the victor in the minutes immediately afterward, a small question was already being raised about "Facts."
By late Thursday afternoon, those questions had become prominent, as commenters cited analyses by partisan and nonpartisan fact-checkers:
Crimson Hexagon Inc. and NBCPolitics.com
Particularly influential was a commentary Thursday morning by the liberal blog Think Progress:
Pundits from both sides of the aisle have lauded Mitt Romney's strong debate performance, praising his preparedness and ability to challenge President Obama's policies and accomplishments. But Romney only accomplished this goal by repeatedly misleading viewers. He spoke for 38 minutes of the 90 minute debate and told at least 27 myths.
Arguments like that planted the idea that Romney had "lied his way to victory," an idea that Obama supporters began spreading with enthusiasm:
Facebook.com — 7:24 a.m. Oct. 4
Twitter.com — 12:07 a.m. ET Oct. 4
By Friday morning, the counterargument that Obama had actually won on substance had taken root, with online sentiment now favoring the president:
Crimson Hexagon Inc. and NBCPolitics.com
A visual representation illustrates the shift:
Crimson Hexagon Inc. and NBCPolitics.com
Facebook.com — 6:20 a.m. Oct. 5
Facebook.com — 7:24 a.m. Oct. 5
The analysis suggests that Twitter and Facebook can be powerful disseminators of opinion once commenters have time to digest the news and marshal their arguments, as was efficiently perceived in this comment:
Twitter.com — 9:48 p.m. ET Oct. 4
Leave a Comment:
Our Irish American pres. O'Bama won the debate....when Mitt the Twit knocked out Big Bird of Sesame Street and slandered the 47% on the Main Street just to pander to the Wall Street.
Mitt is a Vulture in a Dove's Clothing so he can close in on the Big Bird to get the Big Bird as his dinner.
You're a brain dead zombie who is incapable of thinking for yourself. PBS is nothing more than a taxpayer funded liberal outlet that would never survive on its own merits in the market.
...just to pander to the Wall Street...so...
Mitt is a PanderBear - endangered
President Obama Won hands down !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A myth every 3 minutes. Pretty impressive, even for Mitt...
Difficult to debate when the person lying just responds with 'Nuh Unh!"
If you call Lying a Win, then the Clown won - Romney was Lying through his teeth !!!!!!!!!!!!
Who you think won all depends on if you fact check or not.
Romany's Tax plan presented in the debate was not the tax plan represented on his website.... So it is reasonable to conclude at-least one of these Mitts is full of @!$%#.
You can't debate a topic if your opponent has no or keeps changing his position just to be seen in a favorable light.
The only position Mitt has solidified is that he is not Obama. There are zero ideas on the table from Mitt. Its like debating a brick wall with a "nuuu-uhh" recording on loop.
MireV03
He is also NOT the Romney who won the Republican nomination. The Romney who said he loved the mandated health insurance of Massachusetts, would keep regulations on Wall Street, would NOT cut taxes for the wealthy, would FIRE BIG BIRD did not win the nomination.
The question is, if he wins the election, which one will show up in January to dance at the balls, the horse ?
My personal opinion is that, if anything, it was a draw.
My reasons for saying so:
First, it was a boring, fact-saturated debate. Mind you, I'm all for hearing the facts, but neither candidate really outshined the other personality-wise, and neither was very inspirational.
Second. Romney seemed desperate. Especially when he did his tit-for-tat thing about how Obama had the first say, so Romney gets to have the last say. Like a preschooler who was disappointed that he had to go back in from recess before he got his turn on the swings. And he spoke with the cadence of a used car salesman, very hurried, looking to make the quick sale before the customer has time to think it over. Desperate.
Third. Obama stuck too much to his prepared material and didn't counter Romney when he flip-flopped, didn't hammer him for his 47% comments, didn't take the fight to Romney at all. He didn't bring the fire that I thought made him a great debater when he was running for office the first time. I think he was more concerned with looking presidential than anything else. Lackluster, no fire. Boring.
But hey, traditionally incumbent presidents who did poorly in the first debate of an election always did better in the follow-on debates and usually would go on to win the election.
So to lefty and righty alike, I say this: if history is any indicator this election is going to Obama. Plus, the most recent jobs report does nothing to help Romney, and only helps Obama.
First you have to remember that the Romney campaign, up until debate night, was essentially detail free and what details WERE out on the table were extreme right details coming from the Republican primaries.
Secondly, can you even imagine trying to prep for a debate where virtually nothing is known before hand about the opponent except their propensity to lie... an impossible prep.
Now enter an ex-CEO who has lied his way through every take-over sales pitch with an appearance of grace and pretending to take the high road.
This all explains the grace of Romney on debate night and the inability of Obama to counter. In fact, my bet is that Obama KNEW this was a crap shoot as far as what Romney would show up, and decided to let out as much rope as possible and let Romney hang himself... an immediate win followed by the slowest hanging in history... and social media will do it for us.
If you were like me, I was yelling at the TV that night, dismantling everything Romney said in swiftness and elegance... nearly throwing my computer through the TV screen. But, alas, that was no the debate format. And even Obama would not have been able to react as quickly and precisely as needed to keep from appearing angry or from providing huge usable gaffes... no, he did the right thing... he stayed calm and told the truth.
So Romney blew his wade. No doubt he'll get a temporary bump.
The race now comes down to the truth versus the stepped up lying hate ads against Obama combined with a few more debates... but NOW, both Biden and Obama have something to aim at...
What a race!!!!
Obama/Biden 2012
Show your tax returns chameleon.
13%-tax rate
13%-truth
13%-chance of winning
13-not your lucky number Mitt
Obama 2012/Romney 1040
Amazing how people who are willing to overlook all of the things Obama has lied about, covered up, failed to disclose throughout his previous campaign, current presidency and current campaign can get so excited about what they perceive to be lies from Romney. The rose colored glasses are definitely on......I wondered how long it would take for the spin doctors to find a way to turn such an obivous loss by Obama into a win of some kind......seems it didn't take long. He'll always lose when it comes to thinking, and then speaking (without a script or teleprompter.)
Jon R--very clever! Good post!
As to mhrjhn's earlier mindless, meaningless, insulting and idiotic comment...well, consider that since he's not a PBS fan, he's (she's?) only getting fed the pablum that F-ed Up Biased Snooze and Rash Druggiebau feeds him/her so in that world, he/she is a KING!
That said, his comments are typical of that kind of shallow thinker----does anyone expect better from a narrow minded, low information and mindless twit?
Yes, this is insulting to the narrow minded, low information and mindless twits that want to do better and have more than a nickel's worth of brain and my apologies to those wanting to do better, learn and grow. Perhaps PBS is one of several tools available to help along that path.
Take a look at why the debates are truly useless .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NXhoP5bQ2M&list=PLSsqdInlfr7GoHY6KFx6SBzHHblt4uvXH&index=1&feature=plpp_video
Well said LMarkT. I pointed out this very thing immediately after the debate (on Newsvine) and I still believe it. Bill Clinton, nearly "genius" level intelligence himself, has said that Obama is a very brilliant man. I believe him. I agree that it is likely Obama took the long strategy and played it BORING and simply allowed Mitt to projectile vomit lies across the stage in front of 70 million people! Excellent strategy and it looks like it is working. It's not the most exciting strategy for Democrat supporters but it was the smart strategy.
As fact-checking churns along this weekend I predict the big story next week will be exposure of Romney's debate lies and the upcoming vice presidential debate. Romney has barfed his way into a corner.
Mitt is a liar Im sure he and Faux News will continue to say he won ...Their lies only matter to them because they wish so badly to believe in them .... I guess next debate he'll be the one to kill Bin Laden and save the auto industry ..last night he was the proud father to Romneycare usually he runs as fast as possible in the other directions there are even parts of Obamacare he likes and plans to keep ...lol.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche !!!! SORRY MITT I CANT BELIEVE YOU !!!!
Romney clearly won on style, unfortunately the best he can do on substance is motherhood statements and a total refusal to outline what he will actually do to achieve any of them. He is running a campaign that may have won the last election but will not win an election against an incumbent.
This article only proves that the main stream media will always try and put clothing on the emperor.
╔══╗▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩☆☆۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬
║██║★ ♫ ★ ☆ ROMNEY 2012 ☆ ★ ♪ ★ ♫
║(O)║♫ ♪ Happy Days Are Here Again ♪ ♫
╚══╝♪ ♫ ♪ ♫
........▄ █ ▄ █ ▄ ▄ █ ▄ █ ▄ █....
......Min- – – – – – – – – – -●Max.
Adding LMarcT and TheOverlord, I'll just throw this out:
As President, Obama gets briefed on the jobs numbers early, and could easily have had a fair inkling of what they would have been even before that. Perhaps he knew about the good jobs numbers before the debate.
And if he had won the debate cleanly, followed by these jobs numbers, then Romney's goose would surely have been cooked.
But the problem for Obama is that the goose gets cooked too early. So early that there's enough time for the various Republican SuperPACS to dump Romney and funnel their enormous funds down-ticket, with enough time to hurt multiple Democrats in elections for Congress. And Obama would surely rather not have another Republican dominated obstructionist Congress to deal with for another 4 years.
So he "throws" the debate. The immediate aftermath of that is that many Republican SuperPACS doubled back down on Romney. And all that money, in the single basket that is Romney's campaign, may as well go down a black hole, politically speaking, if Romney loses. And not only will this help produce a Congress with a stronger Democratic presence to cooperate with Obama in his next term, it also has the advantage of tweaking all those 1% billionaires funding the Republican SuperPACs by enticing them into wasting enormous sums on money on nothing.
Additionally, by not directly responding to Romney's many lies, Obama and his campaign maintain the flexibility of getting answer those lies at a time, place, and level of detail, of their own choosing. This has the potential to have far greater political effect than if he had just answered them in sound-byte fashion during the debate.
amphiox may be on to something. When it comes to elections, Obama is a master. He puts a lot of thought and control into the process. With his lead in the polls there may have been the need to throttle back the speed so his base does not get complacent.
What a surprise the Obama sycophants are saying Romney won the debate because he lied. Which only begs the question of why Obama didn’t call him on on the “lies” during the debate. Oh yea, it was that altitude thing Al Gore diagnosed. By the way, what were those “lies” again?
Obama sycophants have been listening to Obama lie about Romney and create straw men for so long what else can they say when Romney debunks Obama’s LIES? It must have been truly disheartening for them to witness Obama be exposed for the empty chair he is. I think tingly leg Chris Matthews pretty much sums up their angst. His post debate rant is classic. I think we’re gonna see a few more of those in the coming weeks
Amphiox I'd really like to buy into your theory and think that that Obama team has that level of strategic competency. But I think the truth is much simpler. Obama simply didn't know how to react. He'd been practicing to debate Romney defending his positions. When Romney simply denied that he would do any of the things he's said he'd do for the last two years, Obama simply didn't know how to respond. Which I don't understand because he has raised two kids which should have trained him to respond to out right lies in a logical manor. Guess it just threw him too much when he was expecting to debate an adult who's been campaigning on a position for two years and not a child who repeatedly says "I didn't says that!". Of course the other theory is that the shock wave from Romneys hypersonic pivot gave Obama a concussion.
Ah the progressive left. If nothing else, they're predictable, eh? They can crow here all they want about their hero winning while continuing to bash Romney but it changes nothing.
However, it probably has a comforting effect for them as they remain well entrenched in their fantasy realm where their delusions embrace and insulate them from a painful reality.
Timothy you beat me to the punch, why didn't Obama call out any of the "so called lies."
Amazing Romney can compete when the media, except Fox, paints him in such an awful light. When you have the propaganda of our far left Universities brainwashing our youth that socialism is the answer.
Can't wait for Biden/Ryan Debate.
Winning a debate doesn't mean people believe what you said. Only that you performed better. Polls are already showing that more and more people are starting to realize "Mutt Will Rob-me" is hoodwinking them.
Romney won this debate.!!
If you think it is OK to borrow money to fund big bird, you are part of our problem.. Big Bird should be able to generate his own funds, not be tax payer funded.
It does not matter who was on top of the "words game" that night. What matters is whose actions, once in office, will most benefit this country as a whole.
the majority of the american people i'm sure dont want to lose pbs its educational and has many children's shows that are entertaining and educational. romney and his consevative romneyites want to stop federal funding.(their is a lot of private funding too but not enough to keep pbs alive) without the federal funding also coming in to play. romney wants to stop the federal funding of pbs. what a j%*#k.
romney is a professional liar and big obnox....bully. he wins by lying and bullying people around. his 29% truth gets him anywhere and everywhere.he put the president down and he puts the common american people down. he only cares about the 1% rich. wake up america and smell the coffee......!
obama's 8.7% unemployment went down to 7.8%. the repubs dont like this number.
Romney was not only a bully who disrespected everyone including the moderator, he lied his arse off. If this is what it takes to be declared the winner of a debate, then it proves not only that there is no "liberal media," but that the media loves the lack of civility and higher ratings per a Jerry Springer generation.
Romney was the guy who likes to fire people, the guy who can't stand to be questioned, the guy who feels entitled to become POTUS. He merely shows his true self, which is NOT likable let alone trustworthy.
Reading through this post it is all too obvious that the left simply regurgitates what the liberal media feeds them. Read through them. They reiterate word for word what the media tells them to believe.
I watched the debate. The WHOLE debate.
DJ says -
Really? I listened to Romney counter Obama's lies over and over and STILL provide intelligent answers. I only wish that the forum had allowed Romney to hit Obama with his, Clinton's and Rice's lies regarding Benghazi. However, I'm pretty sure that fabrication will rear it's ugly head during the next debate.
Trinah1 says -
Hate to tell you this sweetie, but Obama lied there, too. HE did NOT kill Bin Laden, Seal Team Six did that while Obama was safely ensconced in the White House watching the video feed. All Obama did was give the ok to go ahead, something that ANY sitting president would have done, under the circumstances. He sure do love to take credit for it, though, don't he?
The Overload says -
Yeah, we keep hearing that, but take his teleprompter away from him and he sounds like a bumbling idiot. And since no one is allowed to see his college transcripts it's not like we have proof, do we? And considering that was at the height of his dope smoking days and it's really kinda hard to pay attention when you're stoned, I'd be willing to bet that his transcripts tell quite a different story regarding Obama's "intelligence."
So, come one, where is the one about the altitude in Denver, huh? LOL
If I was writing the headline for the debate, I'd have said: "Romney bullies an old man, threatens to fire him; or as Mitt calls it, 'Tuesdays.'"
You folks clearly do not understand debate format. Romney shouldn't have had to "remind" the moderator that since Obama started the segment, BY DEBATE RULES it was Romney's turn to finish it!!!
DeeDee, who cares? Most challengers win the first debate.
What matters is who wins the election, and despite all the obstruction by the GOP against job creation and throwing the American people under the bus, despite all the shenanigans of voter suppression and now Republican registration fraud, despite all the lies Romney tells that it is too exhausting to keep pace and difficult for President Obama to nail jello to a wall... Voters know the REAL Romney is the guy who dissed 47%, and that in reality it is the rich like Romney who aren't paying their fair share of taxes.
But you keep on telling yourself and fellow rightwingers what a great candidate Romney is...
What Romney said about the 47% was the truth.
He said that there were 47% of Americans who were getting government handouts and that his message of less taxes wouldn't reasonate with them BECAUSE THEY AREN'T PAYING TAXES. And that IS the truth.
And who wins the debates is pretty darned important - it gives the American people a chance to see the candidates without the media spin. Apparently that has panned out pretty well for Romney - he's only down by 1 point in Ohio, and up 1-2 points in Virginia and Florida.
DeeDee-911031 -- The reason for mortgage products like "no documentation" loans was because doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, and many so-called small business owners (self-employed) use write-offs to show zero income. As such they could not qualify for loans.
In regard to the working poor, the reason they were given tax credits that allow them to pay little or no federal income tax is because this was Republican's proposal instead of indexing the minimum wage to inflation. If indexed to inflation, the minimum wage would be around $11/hour right now.
I'd prefer people were paid what they should be paid, and getting rid of tax credits because this is the real redistribution of wealth -- But I want to see loopholes for the rich like Romney ended first, starting with capital gains. And NO, it's not double taxation. Because once again corporations pay on average only 9% to 11% tax rates due to write offs, and because many business owners file as individuals and use write-offs to show zero income (see above) -- this is a "ruse" commonly used by self-serving plutocrats like Romney.
The debates are not as important as being trustworthy and providing an actual plan with details. Romney/Ryan are all about the same old crap that tanked the economy in the first place. You have been drinking too much Kool-Aid, and if you OD don't come cryin' in here.
The point that got me was when Romney said that The President "spent 80-90 billion dollars on green companies, all of which filed for bankruptcy (Solyndra, et al) AND they were staffed or owned by prior contributors to Obamas campaigns." And the president of the United States didn't respond to that accusation, he just looked down on his podium.
Leave it to MSNBC to attempt to spin this around with their army of Liberals who get preferential treatment here, and many of whom are paid well to propagate left wing noise for the Dems. At least Conservative posts are all just readers.
Why would Democrats want to change anything? The economy is improving, Obama is leading by more than the margin of error amongst likely voters, the Senate also seems assured and the House might be in play.
The only thing is that the Democrats need to [a] not get too cocky nor [b] get too complacent. But why would they want to change anything?
What are all these lies Romney supposedly made? Whats the matter, did you really expect he'd just let Obama regurgitate all the lies he's made over the past 6 months about Romney to go unchallenged? This is what happens when you live in an echo chamber, were the competitor and his agenda have been defined by the opponent in the most unflattering way imaginable. Suddenly, low and behold, someone quit different emerges at the most inopportune time. Stated in far simpler terms that even you people on the left can understand, you believed your own propaganda, now anything to the contrary is a lie. Too bad, so sad.
What I thought was a little strange was that when the debate was over and all the hand shaking was done as well as all the hugging, Mitt made it a point to go back to the podium and collect his papers. For some reason that stood out in my mind. Anyways a vote for Romney is a vote going backwards and we don't need that. Obama/Biden 2012 and lets see Romneys full tax records not a summary.
hardtostarboard-2708767 -- What are all these lies President Obama supposedly made? Could any be a despicable as the "birthers?" Suddenly, low and behold, someone quit different emerges at the most inopportune time. Which release of Romneybot was it, 5.03 or 2.01? You people on the Right have only Projection Politics, conspiracy theories, anti-democracy "strategery" to rely on, and now have gone beyond the Echo Chamber to an alternative universe.
True Patriot -
Certainly - the "truthers" are way more despicable.
Obama's buddies at GE PAID ZERO!!!!!
Michael -
That's what stood out in your mind? Romney and Obama both made notes during the debate. Perhaps he wanted to go over the notes later? What's YOUR conspiracy theory?
Gallop Poll - Oct 8, 2012
TruePatriot-445959 said:
According to Politifact's ruling on US Senate Candidate Joe Kyrillos' claim, "We've got the highest corporate tax rate in the world."
Looks like TruePatriot's claim gets a Pant On Fire rating!!!!!
How many of you have your head in the sand? Fact checkers, including Romney's own campaign, called him out on several of his lies. The first 20 minutes of the debate was about Romney's tax plan which Obama called him out on, citing an independent study that DOES in fact show that Romney's tax plan would cost 5 trillion dollars and that there are not enough loopholes to close without harming the middle class. And Romney claimed that there "five studies" that say otherwise. Which was an outright lie. Those studies don't exist. In the healthcare portion, Romney said that people with pre-existing conditions would still be covered if Obamacare was repealed. Romney's own campaign said that this was not true. These weren't stretched truths, these weren't non-answers, heck this doesn't even quality as spin-- these were out and out lies. Your candidate has made it perfectly clear he will say whatever he needs to say to get elected. I don't understand how you can vote for someone when you actually have no idea where he stands on any issue. In fact, let's do a test -- if you're voting for Romney, tell me which of his policy ideas you agree with. Tell me what he stands for and what policies he wants to enact that will bring those things to fruition.
I imagine that most people will not be able to give me any specifics because Romney gives none. And so many defend him by saying that "well, he wants to wait until he can sit down with Congress.." Even if that were true, does he not have ideas of what he wants? Does he not have goals that he wants to go into those meetings with? Why not talk about those ideas and goals in more detail? Is it because he has none? Or because if he states them he can't change his position later to meet the desires of whatever audience he's talking to?
And people also keep responding with the claims that Obama has told so many lies. Which lies? I'm interested to hear. I'd love to have an actual debate with actual facts instead of arm waving and "Barry Soetero" comments which have debunked so many times, I just ignore anyone who mentions them. Because anyone still touting an outright lie like that is obviously willing to listen to any lie that will fit his worldview -- which perfectly explains why such an individual would vote for Romney.
Boooo HOoooo, Booo Hooo...your puppet lost and showed that without the teleprompter and other people telling him what to say, BOZOhussen is an Empty chair!!
Eastwood was right!!!
Who is the REAL Mitt Romney?
A. Chameleon Mitt
B. Shape Shifter Mitt
C. Schizophrenic Mitt
D. All of the above
Obama / Biden 2012!!!
Who is the REAL Mitt Romney?
A. Pro Life Mitt
B. Moderate Mitt
C. Roe vs Wade Mitt
D. Depends on who he's talking to Mitt
Well of course! The media HAS to make up some reason why Obama REALLY won even though he handily lost!
You know they've got nothing but desperation when they cite "ThinkProgress" to support their claims.
Romney's strong performance of Lies fuels his party !!!!!!!!!!!
OBAMA / 2012, the winning !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ahh but you miss the whole point of the article. There is no trophy no blue ribbion awarded by a pannel of judges for winning a debate. There is only who the audience believes won and why they believe it. It dosen't have to be based in anything remotely resembeling reality as most conservatives well know, But as one wise man cleverly remarked a few years ago
"We know that polls are just a collection of statistics that reflect what people are thinking 'in reality.' And reality has a well-known liberal bias."
Now you are embarrassing yourself. You do know that "social media" is NOT a liberal conspiracy, right?
It is clear this story is above your grade level.
They both lost. Obama was so boring he kept putting himself to sleep, and Romney was such an obnoxious bully that the moderator pi$$ed his pants.
I'm voting for Big Bird!
Big Bird/Elmo 2012
Either way we just have a bunch of political pundits declaring a winner of personal gut instinct here. But in the final analysis they only have one vote each.
The only way to REALLY know who won the debate in the only measure that counts is to wait a few days and see which way the polls go.
And ultimately which way the election goes.
If Obama loses this election, then the hindsight of history will probably declare this debate the turning point in the race, the moment when he "lost" it.
But if Obama wins, then this debate will probably be remembered as the moment when Romney, desperate for a short term bump to offset a failing campaign, lost sight of the longterm objective and hung himself with lies.
I am an Obama supporter. Romney won the debate. But to win, he lied his a.. off (as usual) and came across to me as the "bully" he is and has always been.
Apparently there is no place for honor and truth in the right-wing party.
Yeah, Obama won! Who are are going to believe, our own eyes, or what MSNBC tells us?
rich bullying liars always win they have the rich arryans and conservatives eating right out of their hand.
romney doesnt need the american peoples vote. his big money and the electorial college will put him in the white house...si....duh!
Are any of you guys here actually familiar with a debate format? Each party gets an equal shot at making their point. That means if Obama started a segment, it ends with Romney - and vice versa. Romney wasn't bullying - he merely reminded the moderator that since Obama started the segment, it was his turn to respond and finish the segment.
That's the way it works, folks.
Obama ATTEMPTED to bully Romney... and failed miserably.
texastornado55-
You forgot about the Supreme Court. They've been known to put in a good day's work to make sure the "right" kind of people move into the white house, regardless of the vote.
I miss living in a democratic republic.
Enlighten me, what were some of Romneys lies? And why does Obama get a pass for lying?
What a bunch of bs everyone is spewing! Does anyone really believe that Obama didn't tell lies?? And I for one, don't believe the "new" poll saying social media now believes Obama won, because I sure am not seeing that on my facebook!
Sue, they're saying that Obama won because Willard lied to win the other night. If Obama had called him out on half the stuff he was saying it would have been a slaughter. The great thing with the web now is you can easily check who is telling the truth and who is lying, after the debate was over all of the lies Willard told were easily verified.
Romney should have been disqualified with all his Lying !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL, Sue! Well sue, maybe all your friends are Republicans and all drink the same tea that you do.
Wow. Do you know what anecdotal evidence is? Do you realize why sample rate is important in a poll? I don't think you have a grasp on what constitutes legitimate and factual information.
These are basic things you should have learned in high school civics classes.
Wouldn't it have been fun to have electrodes attached to Mitt so that everytime he lied he got a little shock?
Obama would have been electrocuted!
To lynseypug and hopey. You both look like fools your comments are out of line in an adult forum. Clean it up.
Do you realy want to bring up qualifications? Obama has been President and still is not qualified for the office.
Sue, you have the internet. If you think Obama lied then you can go get the evidence yourself. As for Romney, well, we only have to put the recording of his debate performance up against his own campaign website to see that he has lied.
rukidding re:"Do you realy want to bring up qualifications? Obama has been President and still is not qualified for the office" and mygirl1 who actually said that Obama did not keep any campaign promises over at the recent debate Policy article... are you kidding us?!!!
Qualifications? Where are yours? Can you be specific here? You sound like Mitt and most of the silly teepers that have been drinking too much of that faux costume tea and spouting out wishful thinking. Oh well, why should we be surprised when you visit us and set such a perfect example of what we have been talking about. Its the Republican way for so long, over and over like a broken record, all the big shot hooplah...then you make an indignant put down statement based on nothing more than your say so as if you are some huge expert...and leave expecting everyone to be flabbergasted and convinced just by the glow of your authoritarian charisma. If we were lazy, faithful and conformist teepers you might be fine...But your unqualified statement is a lie.
We are all hip to the tricks now, we know you are good at bluffing your way to make a sale. You will win any way you can and damn the fool who lets you...but you cannot fool all of the People all of the time. When you have nothing else you go after the person and strike below the belt personally and look for things in the private domain that are no ones business and nothing to do with professional work. All those tricks are adding up over the years and they don't fool us any more. Back it up bozos...give us the facts. Tell us why President Obama, a brilliant and well educated man, who has achieved perhaps as much if not more that FDR in his first term despite obstruction and war, is not qualified. Where are your references?
Here is a very clear reference link that lists promises kept in President Obama's first term. Analyse, Argue with, and pooh pooh this!
Obama, campaign promises kept
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-kept/
First of all spaceman why didn't he call romney out? Hindsight is a beautiful thing. Obama sucked in the debate just like his last four years. You say obama is a brilliant and educated man, where are his college records? Everyone went after bush on his college records but on the same note no one knows what obamas records are, and until you do don't boast about his brilliance!
In the Harvard Registrar's office.
Everyone knows where they are. The only thing is, no one cares. Not even you; the only reason you mention them is to try to change the topic, but you don't really care.
I keep reading about all of Romney's lies but I haven't seen even one documented by all the lefty cry babies. Obama got his a$$ handed to him, indicative of the job he's done over the past 3.75 years.
Obama's college records are sealed. And yes, there are many of us who would really like to take a look at them.
What we have here is the clear attempt by the "neutral press" to continue with their Obama praise. Romney hammered Obama on his record and the "press" only goes after any perceived Romney "lies". Rarely does the MSM point out ANYTHING negative about Obama. You people are a joke and should not be calling yourselves reporters. You are partisan hacks who do nothing for the 'common man' except say that others should.
mhrhhn, when you have to tell nothing but lies to win, then did you really win? That's what it comes down too. So Willard may have won the debate but once it was over, and people started to look at things that he said during the debate, they saw he told one lie after another, and if Obama had called him out on them, Willard would have lost big time.
Romney was like a "SNAKE OIL SALESMAN" trying to sell his BS Lies to America !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Obama gave a weak performance. He rarely got around to saying anything that could be true or false. Romney, on the other hand, was a fast-talking used car salesman who said plenty and played so loose and fast with the truth he must've been oiling his tongue with his Brylcreemed hair. He was a disingenuous sophist at best and a bald-faced liar at worst. So much that we must coin a new term, "Mittdacity" to describe the audaciousness of his mendacity.
Willard had the best training for this debate that money could buy, while the president was running the country, campaigning, and trying to defuse an erupting international crisis in the Middle East that cost American lives.
Romney told so many lies--27 in 38 minutes, that must be a new low in campaign debates--Obama was limited to remaining calm and continuing. What a farce.
I, too, was yelling at the TV. Romney bullied Jim Lehrer and did exactly what his trainers told him to--just get those zingers out there! The GOP continues to ignore reality and has no plan except to do as Bush did. The math doesn't add up, and the promise of 12 million jobs in four years? Sure would like to have some inkling about how they intend to accomplish that!
Bottom Line: if a handful of multibillionaires can buy the presidency for this thought-impoverished candidate, he will continue to do exactly what he is told to do--and that is extremely dangerous for America.
--excerpt from
"Why Government Should Not Be Run Like A Business" published today, 10/05/12 @ forbes.com
Excellent excerpt Dee, it hits the nail on the head... I just wish it hit a Republican over the head to help them understand we don't want to abandoned our society in favor of profit.
What good is being filthy rich if there is no @!$%#ing society to enjoy?
Obama murdered an ambassador. That was his foreign policy last month. Obama also spoke 4 minutes longer than Romney and still did not make sense. Don't be such a tool Dee. Overlord is a perfect name for a lying democrat. Both of you are idiots.
Hopey again I say you look like a fool. Obama murdered no one. You are incapable of comprehending what is real and what is not.
What appalled me about this debate was that Romney had a total disregard for the rules of the debate, and thought he could bully and smirk his way through the whole 90 minutes. He had no regard for the moderator, Obama's right to voice his responses, etc. I was so upset by his steam roller approach to this debate I couldn't get to sleep afterward.
I have to admit he took the upper hand, and his information SOUNDED impressive, while Obama stood and looked down or smiled sheepishly. I would have acted the same way if I had been in Obama's position. There was no dignified, intelligent way to respond to Romney's rude, undisciplined behavior. Afterward I wondered if this total disregard for rules, this rude, bullying take-over of the debate will be his typical behavior and management style if he becomes President.
I was reminded of the time when Romney was in his expensive private school near Detroit, and he and his buddies bullied a long-haired student, holding him down and cutting his hair off. Maybe in the world of big business it is permissible for executives to smirk, interrupt, and dominate a discussion to make a big impression, but it is NOT appropriate for a candidate for President of the US!
Romney's behavior during the debate was, on its own, enough to convince me he would be totally out of place and probably dangerous as our President.
Dee-The math doesn't add up, and the promise of 12 million jobs in four years? Sure would like to have some inkling about how they intend to accomplish that!
My problem with his promise to create those jobs is,with his past business experience the jobs would be created in China,not the US.
hopeychangey re:"Obama murdered an ambassador." Here we go again. Your sarcasm in your pseudonym, lets begin with that shall we? Will you please tell me what is so bad about hope or change, especially if it is the desired change of management, favored by and voted upon by the majority of citizens, that improves the quality of life of the citizens of a country?
From your words above, you sound like a skeptic and one who has been brainwashed by a bunch of misinformation, perhaps by what you listen to on am talk radio? This is where we hear idiotic statements and unfounded claims like the one you made, but guess what...YOU JUST LIED. A complete boldfaced, unfounded, ignorant, offensive accusation that is not the least bit true and you would be truly ashamed if you had any idea of what you have just done. It also shows that you have no idea how our government works or what department is what. It also shows how uneducated, misled and gullible you are. You also sound immature, how old are you?
You are so vulnerable in making this statement that all one needs to do is fire back and say, "prove it", and guess what, there is no way you can because what you have said is absurd.
Furthermore, an educated person knows what these propaganda-shocker type yappers on the radio, their fans and you are trying to do, its called character assassination and its libelous, Libel is the written or broadcast form of character defamation. You had better be careful when in a public forum making stupid statements like that. You could find yourself in court with a lawsuit. This will not happen here...we all know how ignorant you are since your own words have done you in. We also know how horribly misguided you are by others with ulterior motives or who are equally stupid.
When I come across right wingers this ignorant and hateful I just sit back and listen in horror and pray they don't end up playing out their dark delusions. Just to think that we could have a party of people like this running our country? They might actually appoint this dramatic statement maker the junior head of the Inquisition in your hometown. I know Halloween is coming soon but really, seriously, this is another reason why you all need to wake the eff up, get on the blue bus of The People, for The People, by The People, and vote the Democratic ticket on all levels now! They are the ones trying to improve education for all, even republicans on welfare who call themselves home-schooled but who never took a class in high school history or civics anywhere...
Obama/Biden please save me from this nightmare!!! 8o
You people are sad! No winner or loser of the debate....it really adds little value. The facts pointed out are ROMNEY did a 190 from all of the campaigning since he won the Republican nomination. Does that not matter to anyone? Are the Republicans that desparate that they will allow their candidate to blatently lie before 70 million people just to win? My God, where is your dignity? The American people are not crazy! They know that Romney meant everything he said during his private fundraiser! He doesn't care because he is willing to sacrifice programs that help those who need a little help during these tough economic times! Heartless individual!
yes the president had a big problem. he couldn't hold up to romney's taunts,teases bullying, and lies. i wonder if mitt romney learned how to tell these lies in his mormon sunday school.
Dee Turner -
See, this is exactly what I mean. Obama was "trying to diffuse an erupting international crisis in the Middle East." When was he doing that, exactly? Was it when he made a very brief statement before flying out to Vegas? Or was it one of the times he stated on television that the attacks were due to a "spontaneous demonstration" over a "disgusting video" that no one had seen - even though he knew full well that it was a pre-planned attack to correspond with 911 that had NOTHING to do with the video?
MamaMiller -
Debate rules - everyone gets equal time. If Obama starts, Romney finishes. If Obama gets 42 minutes, Romney gets.... oh wait!!! Romney gets FOUR MINUTES LESS!!!
So, Obama personally "murdered an ambassador", but he also didn't get Osama bin Laden, it was actually Seal Team 6.
That's how it works in the anti-Obama mind, I guess.
Maybe if he had spent less time arguing with the moderator, he could have used that time for something else. This is the guy who claims he's going to work with Democrats, yet can't even be polite to a neutral moderator.
Byron -
Did you actually WATCH the debate - or are you arguing from the liberal media synopsis?
Romney was EXTREMELY polite to the moderator, and it shouldn't have been necessary for him to remind the moderator of debate rules.
If the moderator had cause to be upset with anyone it was OBAMA when he rudely stated he had 5 seconds left before the moderator interrupted him - then he went on to spend another minute or more talking!!!
The man do love to hear the sound of his own voice...
This represents how I was feeling after the debate. While the president I like so much seemed like he lacked energy & didn't seem to fight back, I was wondering if having to debate on his wedding anniversary was getting to him. 20 years is pretty special and it sucked that he had to spend it with the liar romney. I felt like the substance of the debate was on Obama's side, but Romney had energy that Obama lacked (the guy we saw in the debates 4 years ago) yet I felt like Romney's lies took precedence over his energy.
This is why I wanted to know how independents felt. While I still intend to go and vote for Obama, I still hope we see him full of energy & life in the next two debates. This news piece was pretty satisfying to read, and I'm glad that the majority of people are seeing it as Obama's win even though I feel he may not have put on a winning performance, I still think his substance was better than romney's.
Try to point out Romney's lies! If he lied, why did Obama not point them out? I tell you why; because without a teleprompter telling Obama what to say, he has no clue!
When the debates were scheduled, both Obama and Romney had to agree to the date and time. If Obama did not know that that date was his anniversary it's his fault for being a dumbass.
The left wing media is not the majority of people. They're just Obamanoids like you with a platform to spew bullsh!t like this.
Poor propagandists who have become a running joke in America.
Obama had no substance. You obviously didn't even watch the debate. Obama bleated and bloviated and "uhhhed" and "errrred" and clinched his jaw in desperation due to the fact he was clueless and Romney was schooling him like a teacher would a slow student who couldn't quite grasp how to do basic math.
I think Obama has spent several months running the country. He was low energy during the debates--annoyed really. He looked like he wanted to say "Seriously, I have more important things to do than argue with this guy." I think he was also prepared to fight the Mitt who has been presented over the last 18 months (the one with the $5 trillion tax cut), but suddenly Mitt was arguing that's not true anymore and he's for teachers and all these other claims that Obama literally was not prepared to fight. Mitt showed me he doesn't know the difference between a subsidy and an incentive, nor does he understand the math behind nearly anything he talked about. I think he won the debate due to his energy and his preparedness to fight. But I believe Mitt is more the guy who talked about the 47% behind closed doors than the rehearsed one we saw on Wednesday.
The President left Romney lie and spin and change his positions yet again because he knew we would call Romney on it. How anyone can say Romney won anything is beyond me. Just because he was more obnoxious and energetic doesn't change the fact that he was spinning and flip flopping again. I've never seen such a poor candidate as Romney. The guy really will say anything at all. Heck, just on healthcare alone he has changed positions many times. First he says he will repeal all of Obamacare, then he says he will keep some of it, then he tries to promote his own Romneycare from Mass that is practically the same thing after he had been running from it all along. But after he did promote it, the Teapartiers told him to shut up, so you don't hear that anymore either. He doesn't even remember what version of his flip flops he is using anymore. He varies from day to day on the stump because he can't remember which lie he is currently standing on.
It's been the same state of flux on all of his issues. From taxes, to foreign policy, to what he agrees or doesn't agree with the President on. I don't think the President said much because he couldn't believe that yet another version of Romney showed up for the debate. All he has to do is let the public tear Romneys flip flopping, lying debate performance up over the next several days...
What3v, you left out the most important part of Romney's healthcare comments: "the states".
The federal government can do very few things better than the local governments.
Obama is nothing without his teleprompter telling him what to say. He's a big loser!
As I watched Obama and Romney, I too felt he had the low energy, but his answers had a lot more substance than Romney's. I watched with friends, and our mouths literally dropped open at some of the things he was saying - a complete flip flop he was making up as he went along. He will say anything he feels he needs to to get votes. He sounded more Democratic and Republican. I can't believe his base isn't hopping mad over it. But it just proves what I've always believed. They would rather lose the nation just to get Obama out of the White House.
The polls are saying Romney won.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/oct/5/romney-gets-post-debate-bounce-fla-ohio-va/
mhrjhn
"Try to point out Romney's lies! If he lied, why did Obama not point them out? I tell you why; because without a teleprompter telling Obama what to say, he has no clue!"
Another idiot Neo-Con/teabagger with the teleprompter B S again, I guess when you don't have anything you resort too this.
As for Willard's lie, Obama did point out some, like saying he's been pushing the 20% tax cut for 18 months and now, 5 weeks before the election, he changed it. He also mention a couple of other things too, but here's the point, and it's a very important point, even though Obama didn't point out Willard's lies, when the debate was over, and people looked at what Willard said, they could see everything that he said to win was a lie. That's the real important thing. I know you don't see this but that's what it comes down too.
The Obamanoids in the media are claiming Romney lied. The problem with their claims is they have nothing to back it up with except what Obama tells them Romney meant.
It is hilarious as well as pathetic that there are really people in America who are so stupid as to continue to support the inept fraud we have as president.
But hey. it has taken decades for the Modern Day Plantation Masters Party to build their base thru freebies and promoting irresponsibility by feeding the lie the govt is there to help.
The good news is that many of them now realize they and their parents have been fed the big lie and are rejecting it. They just want jobs so they can help themselves.
The jobs numbers today was just a continuation of the big lie and no one but the 40% or less of brain dead sycophants are buying it.
Conservative Rebellion, actually we have plenty of videos where Willard is talking about his 20% cut, which now he's not doing. He also have videos of him saying he will repeal Obamacare, then saying he wouldn't, then saying he'll repeal part of it. We also have Ryan's budget, which Willard said he would sign the whole thing when he gets into office, the problem with that is it cut education heavily. We also have videos or Willard talking about his plan for SS and Medicare, which is vastly different than what he said. The list goes on and on.
As for the job report today, well it's coming from the same people and is calculated the same way it has been, which the Repub didn't have a problem with when it was over 8.0% unemployment. Face it, you Neo-Cons & Teabaggers would rather see this country go down the tubes than it do good under Obama.
Romney showed in Denver that he made a effort to improve his lying so his party looks up to him !!!
Obama did point out the numbers for Romney's tax plan would cut revenue 5 trillion dollars Romney simply denied it even though his own website indicates it would reduce revenue 4.8 trillion, which makes 5 trillion a rounding error. How do you disprove somehting that hasn't been implemented? Romney told how he loves teachers yet his plans is to cut funding that supports teachers and eliminate the department of education. His stated plan to fix medicaid by providing block grants to states tied to inflation ignores the fact that health care costs vastly outstrip inflation rates and therefore would force states to either cut costs massively or refuse care. Obamacare helps fix medicaid Romney simply lowers payments and would force people to do without health care. Romney took a swipe at Obama over supporting green energy with many of those companies donating to Obama but didn't mention the hundreds of millions he and republicans in congress receive from oil oil,gas, coal and wall street firms that his deregulation and opening up federal lands would be the biggest giveaway to mega corps in history. Romney states his real concern isn't for the wealthy who don't need help but the 3% of small business that would fall between the cracks under Obama's plan. If true why wouldn't he simply raise the 250K point to 500K or 1 million and close those cracks instead of applying the 20% cut to everyone including people like himself and those making 100's of millions? If it's not about the wealthy why do republicans in congress refuse to extend the Bush tax cuts unless they apply to the mega wealthy as well?
Yes,having to debate on one's 20th wedding anniversary does suck but it also reflects that his thoughts are focused on keeping his job.For the first debate he told us all he was keeping it low-key and I can see why.I did not know that night was his 20th wedding anniversary,that explains a lot.So he let mitt do his thing..
Conservative Rebellion: You poor benighted philistine. Your vacuous diatribes masquerading as astute erudition has elicited a regurgatory response. If you had removed your cranium from the twin cushions of gluteus maximus on Wednesday night you would have heard the President describe: a jobs bill currently filibustered by guess who?; hiring 100,000 math and science teachers; let the Bush tax cuts expire; close loopholes that encourage companies to offshore their labor; 2 million more slots at community colleges, cut military spending; 4 trillion dollar deficit reduction plan - details on web site; remove 4 billion dollar oil industry tax benefits. The ACA is being enacted, the details are available on-line. That's pretty specific.
Can you tell me anything Mr. Romney will do aside from cutting taxes? And how much will his tax cuts cost? How will he pay for them?
As to your hysteria concerning this news story: NBC is reporting news, not word-smithing, not spinning. They are reporting data gleaned from new media analysis software. And the fact is I heard the Think Progress story today on radio and my daughter heard it somewhere else. So I can tell you, people were talking about it.
As for Mr Romney's "performance", while his style was at moments commanding, intimidating, presidential, forthright, feisty or charming, his substance was clearly designed for "low information" voters, lacking any specificity. If you want to know Mr. Romney's lies, have a grown-up show you how to visit thinkprogress.org and you can learn something.
(bloviated??!! - really?)
LibGirl, I won't pretend to be an Independent but wanted to respond to you.
I think the problem is with the criteria most people are using to judge the debate. It's wrong. This is not a reality TV series it is a job interview for President of the US. This was a job interview, does anyone really think most employers are looking for the flashiest, loudest and most aggressive employee? The one that lies without blinking? The one that cares almost nothing for half his customers (in this case voters)?
The reason Obama won the debate is because most people take their vote seriously and want to hire the right person for the job. Just because Romney was the best reality TV personality, the most entertaining and the most obnoxious it really doesn't help him get the job. This is of course has been amplified exponentially considering that the job candidate Romney lied over 20 times during his interview!
It isn't a talent competition, it's a job interview with the American people. Fortunately, people seem to actually be paying attention to the election this year! Now let's just hope people get out and vote.
I agree totally with this statement by The Overlord about what our criteria should be for deciding who won the debate. Romney only showed his lack of diplomacy, his lack of humility, his own over-inflated ego, and his willingness to behave obnoxiously to make himself look good. Obama maintained his calm, dignified demeanor, (although he did give a few really wide grins that I could tell meant he didn't believe a word he was hearing), and showed an amazing restraint that came across to some as complacency.
This is not a talent contest for who can interrupt the most often, who can disregard the rules of a debate the most times, etc. I agree, it is a job interview; and if I was the executive who was interviewing these 2 job applicants I would have sent the loud, obnoxious, overly egotistical one away in a hurry. He is not a team player, and would not fit in well in any employment setting, except maybe if the job opening was for a dictator.
I'm not sure how many remember this, but during the height of the healthcare debate, Obama had a meeting with all the state governors and told them point blank that if they didn't like the Affordable Care Act and thought they could do better with local legislation, so long as their plan fulfilled the same criteria for reducing the number of uninsured as the Affordable Care Act did, he would allow them to opt out and implement their own plans.
And this is basically exactly what Romney said, making Romney's position (in the debate) on this EXACTLY the same as Obama's.
And incidentally, NOT A SINGLE ONE of the Republican Governors took Obama up on that offer. However, at least one Democratic state (IIRC, it was either Vermont or Maine) did, and went ahead with trying to set up a single-payer system in their state, and opt out of the Affordable Care Act.
Which as far as I know they are still in the process of working on.
I'm hoping Obama wins the next two debates just like the last one! Hahahahahahahahaha.
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║██║★ ♫ ★ ☆ ROMNEY 2012 ☆ ★ ♪ ★ ♫
║(O)║♫ ♪ Happy Days Are Here Again ♪ ♫
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......Min- – – – – – -- -- -- -- -- -- -- – – -●Max.
The Kennedy/Nixon debate, Nixon did not receive the right makeup and looked dark. I think Obama looked kind of dark, and I think the makeup failed him.
Looks like the GOP is Waterboarding the retards for votes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mama in colorado -
Like go to a 40K per plate fundraiser with Beyonce and JayZ. Or fly off to Vegas for yet another fundraiser. Or be the eye candy on the couch with the ladies of The View. I'm pretty sure that he would rather have been ANYWHERE other than standing at that podium getting spanked with millions of folks watching :)
Such a facetious comment. Obama is way more hard working than Romney, who lives off his offshore investments.
Help! I'm laughing so hard I can't get up!!!!!
Obama with his marathon vacations, television talk shows and golf games works harder than the man who helped put Staples and Dominoes on the map, saved the Olympics (for free!!!), acted as Governor of Massachusettes (for free!!!), and regularly does missionary work (for free!!!)
OMG -Really???
Obama seemed lost without his canned responses and actually being challenged by someone other than his usual adoring crowd and the media.
Obama was prepared to debate Romney's actual plans not the new and improved Romney. How do you debate someone who simply denies everything he's ran on for 1 1/2 years? He's argued for weeks that what he said about the 47% was accurate but now say's he was totally wrong. He avoided talk about Romneycare which he claimed should be a model for the nation but now say's it's clearly wrong for the nation but great for individual states. Etch-a-sketch.
Yea it's hard to debate with an idiot
I'm sure Obama was shocked and astounded that someone would have the audacity to get onstage and blurt constant lies, and not little ones, HUGE lies that are easily proven to be lies. I'm sure Obama wanted to blast him but probably entered with a strategy to be Presidential. Well, he did that and everyone complained he wasn't lively enough.
The bad news for Republicans calling him an ignorant clown is that now he has been fully sanctioned and even pushed into being more aggressive in the next debates. Look out Romney! OH, and Ryan better be prepared for a cantankerous Biden that is going to be pissed about what Romney did to the president.
dave
Romney had no problem debateing an idiot.
Overlord.
Your fool VPis not a problem. Obama should have him stay home. It would help him more than to let him speak.
It should be remembered that EVERY SINGLE previous incumbent president debating a challenger in the first presidential debate (except for Bill Clinton) was accused of exactly the same thing, and deemed to have lost the debate because of it.
It is an almost unavoidable circumstance for an incumbent president to find himself in.
Virtually every single previous incumbent president in a debate against a challenger has also been criticized for looking bored, tired, less prepared, irritable, and slightly arrogant.
I have to say, if you've spent the last four years doing the hardest job on the planet, and have to spend an hour and a half debating someone who wants to take your job but has NEVER actually performed it, and who has ZERO real world experience it, attacking and second-guessing every one of the difficult decisions you've struggled with and worked hard to get right, it would be pretty hard not to come across looking tired, bored, irritable and arrogant.
Man!
I am dizzy after that left spin!
Obama was revealed for the intellectual lightweight clown more than half the nation knows him to be. 60 million people witnessedhim being shredded to pieces live and large. There is no spinning it, no"resetting" him. He has been revealed to be inept and lacking.
A man with no vision, no plan, no clue.
Don't believe me? Wait until the next when foreign policy is the topic. His answer for every question will be "I shot Obama". And he will actually try to describe how it felt to pull the trigger. That's how out of touch and delusional the man is. My prediction is he'll be wearing dark glasses and a neck brace to keep him from looking at the floor.
That is, if he even shows up. After the first one, he's probably looking for ways not to.
it's easy to look good, to just anybody, when you change your views on issues every couple of weeks.
What's funny, is Mitt just prior to the debates stated (with a snicker) that the president would not tell the truth. I don't remember the exact statement, however it was clear he was implying that Obama would not be truthful. I believe that's called projecting. The snicker gave it away, I was surprised , even though I expected it, the level of dishonesty displayed by Mitt Romney, Mendacious Mitt, oh my!!!
NBCSPIN!
Obama lost because he did not appear as confident as Romney did. The moderator needed to control the debate better because they both repeated talking points more than once. The first debate Romney did win, but there are two additional debates. This election is not locked in by either candidate.
That wasn't confidence it was obnoxious lying. After fact checking Romney proves to be a sociopath.
As I have been saying for months,Romney is a typical sociopath.He uses people for his own benefit,if you are no benefit to him he throws you aside.He will lie and cheat and steal (legally and illegally)to get where he wants to be and will use all of you who voted for him.
Spin, spin, spin NBC. Lie some more to get Obama re-elected. We can only hope the electoral college is more intelligent than the liberals that worship this amateur-in-chief.
Amazing how fast Obama caved without his teleprompter. Lib's are in spin panic trying to spin Obama's loss into a victory. Romney will have to lie long and hard to pass Obama's tidal wave of lies he has told.
Why should the president debate a clown who lies? There were so many untruths as Romney spoke it was frighteningly stupid.
The definition of the word lie in a liberals vocabulary : "An idea that I do not agree with".
Point out the 'lies' Dee. I bet you have nothing.
Everything he said basically was a lie....see above.Obama was laughing at him under his breath..look closely..he was right for doing so,no one knew that Romney on stage..38 lies...3 lies a minute a new record.
If you want all the lies Romney told here are a few links-
If you would like a second source I would be happy to provide it for you. =)
I give up!!!
Stupid thing to say. Obama was all over the facts, he just wasn't flashy presenting them.
High Priest Romney on the other hand made up all his facts and was all flash.
No wonder people are seeing that Obama won BIG! It isn't a talent competition it is a job interview.
Overlord is an Obama operative do not listen to him! No facts just like his boss.
no substance either.
Sorry MSNBC, as hard as you try to spin this, 67 million people ACTUALLY WATCHED the drubbing Obama recieved in the debate.
I realize your journalistic integrity doesn't matter to you anymore, so I will not even try to convince any of you to be non partisan. It really is laughable though, and we all see right through it. In a few decades this period for the media will be a nice teachable moment for anyone who wants to do actual journalism.
Judging by this article, I guess they really can spin it in Obama's favor.
Judging from the comments, no ones buying it except the hardcore Obamanoids.
Which is 90% of the so called media.
I love how the conservatives think everyone that disagrees with them is biased. I cannot say that this article is great but you guys think every news organization but FOX is biased. I am glad that I am not so paranoid that I think everyone is against me. (even when they dissagree with me)
You know it's bullsh!t. Reach deeper. You know Obama is a lying fraud. Extrapolate that and you know Obama is incompetent and has been largely protected thru the media. It's not a secret, not hidden if you choose to look. To prove it all it takes is a couple of hours of research and an open mind.
The next step is to vote for Romney. An honest man who has accomplished much in his life.
since when did "honest" = flip flop on issues so many times, people have lost count
No spin needed,fact checking was all that was necessary.No matter how hard Republicans can try to rewrite history,that history is there glaring you all in the face.In other words you did not get away with it.Thats what Democrats are for,to keep the country from going Orwellian
History will show Obama as the worst President ever.
Period
rukidding, when the next generation of kids has to read the textbooks of this frockery, they will read about Romney, gaze at each other, and say "Is this Romney character the biggest asswipe or what?"
CC -
That is so hilariously funny! The "next generation of kids" are college students who think Obama should have been allowed a teleprompter at a debate!!!
NBC News, what a joke. I remember when you could trust the networks to be unbiased, but now it makes me sick and most everyone I know. You can talk about Fox or any other conservative leaning outlets, but lets face it, at least you know what your getting, NBC pretends to be legitimate journalism and absolutely is not. You have let the country down by not being unbiased and it is shameful.
Please tell me you don't think Fox doesn't pretend to be legitimate journalism. I saw Bill O'Reilly saying as much just last month.
O Reilly isn't a journalist......his comments are his own opinions. You need to learn the difference so you don't embarrass yourself. You probably think Ed and Maddow are journalists too.
Well I'm quite sure he or she probably follows the Huff and Puff Po and thinks THEY are actual journalists! LOL Pretty sure Big Bird could do better...
Form over substance, Romney wins. Substance over form, Obama wins.
Republicans are great at soundbites, but for truthfulness, mostly those soundbites belong on the front page of The National Enquirer.
Of course, then it's those persky policy "details" where they really come up short, cause it always boils down to tax cuts for their rich donors.
Give one example of Obama's "substance". The man spoke in terms of platitudes and bumper stickers and lies. He actually repeated some of the rhetoric he used in 2008.
Yeah... Obama is all substance, no form... LOL. I distinctly recall giant Godlike pillars in Colorado, media photographers photographing him with circular halos around his head, "HOPE" posters etc etc, ad nauseum.
Obama is the epitome of form over substance. He's a wannabe celeb.
A lot of the Obama substance was untangling the multitude of Romney lies. But the debate format only gives so much time for that. But as the Romney campaign has said, they are not going to do or say anything based on fact checkers.
Obama couldn't untangle his own shoestrings.
Give an example of a lie Romney told.
His health care policies cover pre-existing conditions. He hasn't proposed tax cuts for the wealthy. On and on and on..... My challenge, name anything he said that was truthful.
Conservative,...just about all of it
the fact that he is suddenly "wrong" about what he said about the 47%. he still does not give two @!$%#s about them.
Um, Conservative Rebellion? That's called "consistency." You wouldn't recognize it--your candidate Romney and his buddy Ryan don't recognize it--or practice it--either. We understand your quandary.
An example of a lie? He has named himself "a severe conservative." Unfortunately, he showed up at the debate as a candidate to the left of Obama! haha
Most of the above comments are evidence that their opinions have been formed by listening to Obama rather than actually listening to Romney. You all think that because Obama says Romney believes something that it is actually so. You are a bunch of sheep that don't know how to think for yourselves.
I have followed and listened to both candidates for months. Never has Romney said he would cut taxes by five trillion......that is the number the Obama campaign came up with and knew the sheep would buy into whatever he said. So funny that with the fast and furious cover up followed closely by the ambassador Stevens cover up the fans are calling the wrong man a liar.
The only thing Obama has ever said that isn't a lie is that he planned to fundamentally change America. He has changed things from bad to worse! If re-elected, we will get what we deserve for believing in a fraud that doesn't believe in America.
The so called fear of a Neo-Con..... pathetic.
Tell me, just what exactly is he planning to change? Cite sources please. And have them open to everyone here so they can dissect the info for themselves.
People form their own opinions based on what they see, hear, and feel. Every person is an individual mind - to deny this is to deny the truth of existence in its entirety.
It would be like saying: "All pitbulls will gnaw off your neck, so we should eradicate every pitbull in existence! They are the bane of evil!" or "All homosexuals will steal your wives and husbands and force them to have impure relations! They are pedophiles! We should burn them on a cross!", or my all time favorite line "These black people are thugs! They rob banks, shoot people and overpopulate the planet! They have zero capacity to do anything useful to society, let alone lead our Holy Kingdom of America! We should throw them into tar pits and watch em burn like the beasts they are!"
Now while the above lines are sarcastic and not my real opinion, they were stated to make a point: Some people think that way. I don't agree with that line of thought, but I'm not going to butcher them for it. If they act on those lines, though, I will have to put my foot down - or rather, up. Into their fat little hogholes.
The problem with that CC is what the liberals "see, hear and feel"
They SEE the Huff and Puff Po, CNN and MSNBC feeding them bull++it, and they believe it.
They HEAR Obama lying and feeding them bull++it, and they believe it.
They FEEL that anyone who doesn't agree with them is full of bull++it, and they believe that, as well.
So, in essence, all of these "individuals" are actually part of a hive mentality that feeds on bull++it.
Romney is living in RomneyWorld, which is a parallel universe where only positive (to Romney) news is reported and no one ever checks your earlier positions...
What the heck is a Bill Hobb's and why does he matter? No, really. Seems he's just another big mouth in a world full of big mouths.
Ditto, rush limbaugh, glenn beck, sean hannity etc., etc.
True, that this was a lackluster debate performance by President Obama. But the fact remains that Romney was bending the truth at best, outright lying at worst. Besides Romney came across as pushy and arrogant. Jim Lehrer was absolutely horrible in keeping rein on the debate. In the end don't think it will make much difference as the Romney/Ryan team has already cast there image as dishonest and ready to sacrifice the middle class for the good of the 1% and corporations.
Blame the moderator, blame Bush, Blame Romney, hell... Blame the altitude (Al Gore). Standard progressive MO. Good job.
By the way, you know Obama actually used more speaking time than Romney. It's not our fault 60% of it was "uuuuuuuh. uuuuuhm. Uh."
Hey Brute,
Just stating my opinion. I don't comment as much as you do. But as I read your posts, it becomes evident that your an AH. There is no WAY you can defend Romney or Ryan. They are dishonest, not by mistake but by intent. You can troll these pages and try to use your wit and logic to post gotchas and LOL's, but the fact remains they are liars, one day they say this then they deny it.
The defining moment in this election is the 47% remarks that Romney made, and today is trying to walk back. Its not taken out of context nor misinterpreted, he was very evidently speaking from what he believes.
So troll away and try to spin and mock all you want.
Your just not on the right side, nor Representative of a TRUE American.So do us all a favor and post your BS somewhere else......
Growing up with parents from the Soviet Union I always heard a saying "next thing you'll tell me is that milk is black". Over there the KGB forced you to agree. Unfortunately here the media brainwashes you into believing it. I'm afraid the latter is worse. At least in the old country everyone really knew the truth and just paid lip service when govt. officials were around. Here people full heartedly believe the lies and if you don't you have to pay lip service to your fellow citizens or you'll be treated worse than the KGB ever would have. Enjoy your new hope and "freedom", but please remember both sides lie. It's why they're up there talking.
Exactly Bob and it can be very dangerous too..it can get cultish..trust me it is a daily fine line we walk.One wrong word and you've started a riot
"But as soon as the debate had finished Wednesday night, commentators and television analysts — including some generally considered sympathetic to Obama... "
"generally considered". generally considered ??? Chris Matthews is only "generally considered" to be sympathetic to Obama? That's pure comedy.
Then you go into the Chris Matthews hysterics video.
President Obama finally showed some leadership; he showed children, by his example, what one can look like if they don't do their homework.
M.J-CT, Mitt's job for the past year and a half has been to prepare for moments like this. Obama has a job (and a major one at that, as we all know)--he's our president. I would prefer that he act like a leader and do his job, rather than pretend to look like a leader for 90 minutes.
Well said CO mama
Mama, Obama has not been doing his job! If he had, Mr. Stevens would still be alive, the welfare roles would not be so high, etc.....
Mama,for this first debate he did the exact right thing.Obama played up what he did,where we've been(and I only heard him utter Osama once)and his plans for the next four years and basically let Mitt make a fool of himself.For the 1st debate (and especially it being his 20th wedding anniv.)I think he did fine.He did not win but I believe that was not his intention.Mark of a true statesman with that modus operandi.That impressed me.
mhrjhn--the ignorance of your last statement is astounding! What part of "not doing the job" that he's done don't you get? Got bin Laden, saved the auto industry, put in place a health care plan for the country that provides health care coverage for a large portion of the population, got us out of Iraq -- should I go on? No, you're not paying attention any more anyway.
To select two issues---what do you propose could have been done to have not had the tragedy in Libya occur? We're waiting. If you're going to talk about the early to later statements on what went on, come on, no one has an instant answer in something as complicated and complex and horrific as what was going on in Libya at that time.
Meanwhile people like you just jumped to your own twisted conclusions and then as the story evolved, couldn't grasp that with more time and information coming in, of course the scenario is going to change. I guess the concept of an evolving story is a little hard to understand in your world.
And to forget---or don't you know---that those on welfare are not just the ones your intent is for the reader to think "minority" but unemployed veterans, people below the poverty level, unemployed private sector workers from the floor to the C-suite who lost their jobs from a variety of reasons put in motion during the 2001--2009 regime and public sector workers let go because of the Pee, I mean T-baggers elected in 2010 at both the national and state/local levels put politics before people.
At the Federal level, house repuslives didn't pass any jobs-related bills that would provide any kind of relief including shafting the veterans just recently.
At the local level, state legislature repuslives likewise cut resources so that government starved, had to cut back, couldn't do its job causing layoffs, delayed purchases -- or cancelled orders of things that would have helped the economy --- and then should things fall between the ever-expanding cracks, idiots like you can point out the failures -- well sir, any failures are those of the people in a position to provide the staff and resources for those working in the public sector to do their jobs.
So had the congressional respulsives not refused to do what is right for the country, we wouldn't have as many on the "welfare roles" so when making that ridiculous argument, look to why these folks are there -- not that they are.
And yes, there are those "milking the system" but come one, one size does not fit all.
I was watching the debate but when I watch I mute all republicans so I muted Romney and only listened to President Obama. I know that President Obama was right in what he said. He was not going to look at Romney while Romney was lying his patoody off. President Obama was talking to the viewing audience, not Romney. What you did see is President Obama making statements with Romney saying no I am not, no I did not or no I will not. All Obama could do was say what Romney has been campaigning on for months with Romney denying it all. Romney was standing there being against his whole campaign.
vila - was the viewing audience located on his shoes??? LOL You kool aid drinking lefties are so amusing...
vila's brain got washed twice, I guess. A True Believer from the womb to the tomb.
How do you Qualify winning with lying?...that is the hardest for me. I saw alot of thumbs up/high fives, but they "KNEW" he was lying.....
Obama only lies when his lips move.
The media damage control - led by MSNBS - is epic. Their emperor proved to have no clothes and now they're trying to photoshop an Armani suit on The Won. Spin, libs, spin.
Now there is no joy for the GOP here. It is whine, whine and more whine. It was so joyful when republicans were gloating away and I do mean gloating. We are not the simpletons who have group think. That is the GOP. We would never believe the lies of Romney or the lies of Ryan or the lies of the republican party. We don't believe them and won't until they start caring about more than tax cuts for every solution. Tax cuts for the wealthy because they are job creators, but are they and have they? Tax cuts don't need to go to the very wealthy who are the least needy people in the country. They are not creating jobs, but they are socking it away. President Obama knows what constitutes a small business and it is not the GOP idea that they are millionaires.
The community organizer knows more about what constitutes a small business that does one of the men who helped build Staples, Dominoes and numerous other businesses to their current place in the business world? On what planet???
Reality intruded on people's belief structures briefly, but as the event receded they found ways to reconcile with what they saw and return to their original world-view. Quite common, actually.
The most notable difference between the two men, as I watched it, was Obama's belief that prosperity comes from government versus Romney's that it comes from individuals and their efforts and initiatives.
HNL you are wrong. The Pres. has said over and over that there is no people like the American people, no worker like the American worker. He believes in their strength and ingenuity - but also that the role of government is to facilitate those efforts, and not to undermine them, as has so often been the case in America. "You're on your own" isn't a recipe for a successful society or economy.
Conservatives are too hard-nosed and simplistic in their thinking.
HNL,I believe Obama was the first President that I have heard that has admitted that prosperity was a mixture of both individual assertiveness and government assistance.Have not heard that(except from Clinton and Reagan)in awhile.Romney just blustered all over that and puffed up the lies about less govt,vouchers or a far less effective Medicaid(yay Im 46 and boy look what I get to look forward to!)
Romney wants the states to do everything and that is not going to happen. We have a federal government that needs to act in a recession, in a disaster, in a crisis and it must be a just government of, for and by the people. Republicans were so against helping the states in the recession. Why? Just to be contrary to President Obama is enough. However it goes deeper. These republicans would rather start another war with all that huge cost than help middle class Americans struggling in a republican recession. And these particular republican politicians don't care about the billions in subsidies going to oil corporations. They voted for it to continue not long ago. They don't have the right priorties in my opinion.
The federal government is a disaster. They can't even run a postal service. How do you like them using your taxes to throw million dollar conventions for themselves with fortune tellers? The past four years have been full of stories of corruption, mismanagement, cover ups, trillion dollar deficits, unemployment, increased welfare, more dead soldiers than the previous eight years and our president golfs, hits the late night talk shows, the View and parties with the Hollywood celebs. Why aren't you embarrassed to support him? Where is common sense?
Our president is "missing". He doesn't even attend his briefings. He doesn't meet with his security counsel and people are dead. It is more important to him to fly to Copenhagen with Oprah or go to Beyonce bashes. Shameful.....and it shows. He thought he could just show up to the debate and all the millions he has spent on trash ads would win it for him. He never studied in school and he hasn't done his homework now either. He is just lucky there are so many groupies out there that think he's a cool dude. So sad.
Hey Dave
So, Obama is the first president you have heard that from.......except for Clinton and Reagan. Lol
The REAL debate will happen on November 6th. Obama-Biden in a landslide.
YEP! Just like the the dems won the landslide in 2010 and the landslide beating Walker in Wisconsin.....right?
BOZOhussen got his "black- Muslim" (maddona) - a$$$$ kicked and his teleprompter is lost in how to handle it!!!
Romney won by lying and Obama wasn't prepared to challenge him when he would repeatedly deny his position on issues. There's no way to counter that when someone tells you that's not what they said or recasts their position to score points. There should be real-time fact checking, or, my idea is an Olympic scoring system so a panel of judges can give points or penalties and show the scores at the conclusion of the debate and declare a winner.
So if you're not going to point out where Mr. Romney lied, then can one assume that President Obama and/or the DNC lied about Mr. Romney's proposals?
Oh no,he was prepared.He let him walk all over him.He wanted voters to see what kind of man Mitt is under pressure.Very good mark of a real statesman there.Mitt looked like a car salesman.obama did not feel the need to defend himself too much because most of us know what he has done and from the looks of things it seems the majority of voters agree with what he has done and in no sense of the word have the decisons he has had to make been easy.And I say that for either side of the partisan line.I cannot imagine how McCain would have fared if faced with the decisions the President has had to make the last four years with the opposition he has had.I seriously would have worried for McCain's health.
I say give them an instant shock when they lie.
MJB
I agree.....the prez would have fried five years ago.
@Dave, you can't seriously think Obama is a statesman. You've got to be joking. There hasn't been a man worthy of that descriptor/title occupying the oval office that I can think of in my lifetime.
I have never seen so many angry, delusional people in my entire life. These threads are full of them and it is frightening. What skills does Obama possess? Not much that I can think of. He is charismatic. He has a cult of personality. Nothing more. He's a man hell-bent on making the government your daddy and daddy will take care of you as long as you obey. Don't worry, you are going to get your wish. Your "statesman" is going to get re-elected. In the end, Romney won't be able to connect with enough voters .
We will suffer through another 4 years of poor leadership that you will get to blame on anything and everything except on the person in charge. We all know the buck can't possibly stop there.
OBAMA wasn't prepared that is old news.. If he can't prepare for a non violent situation {DEBATE} what makes him qualified to deal with world leaders that want to kill us. Unless of course these leader and Obama see eye to eye. Wink ,Wink i'll be more flexible after the election. I hope he meant he would be out of a job.
Obama couldnt defend his administration.He looked like a man who wanted to be somewhere else.He could have helped himself by not staring down so much.
So Romney was agressive and was prepared.Sounds like a good man to be president.
Is there an option for "We all lost"? With both participants fully committed to sticking to talking points or "zingers", there never was much chance of actual debate on the questions. At this point I'm thinking it would work better if both candidates (or, better still, ALL candidates appearing on most ballots) were given a question (unknown to them before the debate) to which they had to respond in writing (using any source materials they need - an open-book essay test, if you will). The essays would be anonymized to prevent bias, then presented for panel discussion, questions, and fact-checking. OK, so it wouldn't be great TV, but it would be better than what we got this week.
(apologies for the double post )
It took ninety minutes to say, one side wants large government control, dependency, welfare and fundamental change. The other is for small government, self sufficiency, jobs and a restoration to the great nation we once were. We get to choose.
Choice is only an illusion with the current state of our political system. It's like choosing how you wish to die. Hanging or firing squad. Doesn't really matter, in the end, you'll be dead.
Nothing will change until the populace changes. Right now, both sides are so blindly and blissfully supporting their man because they hate the other one, that nothing will change. Change will come when the government's ponzi scheme crumbles around their and our ears. Then they will be left with no choice but to own up to the mistakes.
I fear it will get extremely ugly and be horribly painful before that happens.