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Subscribe to RSSWhether Mitt Romney or Barack Obama wins the presidential election, a congressional impasse in 2013 seems likely. That’s because under most conceivable election scenarios – with Romney or Obama in the White House, and with either Democrats maintaining their Senate majority, or the Republicans taking it – the minority party could use the filibuster threat to block proposals it opposed.
Brian Snyder / Reuters
Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney climbs onto a picnic table to address the crowd outside a campaign rally in Mansfield, Ohio September 10, 2012.
Regulation, instead of legislation, may be where whoever is president in 2013 can most effectively shape policy. The president’s appointment power and his control of regulatory agencies such as the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) are likely to become more important than they have been in the past.
This is especially true with regulation of coal and the power plants that use it to generate electricity.
Related: Romney campaign rolls out energy policy
John Eaves, the CEO of St. Louis-based Arch Coal, the nation’s second-largest coal company, recently told a conference of investment analysts that, “The EPA has been very aggressive where coal has been concerned. When we look out over the next four, five years, we've identified about 45 gigawatts of coal-fired generation that will be closed.” A gigawatt is 1,000 megawatts. The largest coal-fired generating plant in the United States, in Cheshire, Ohio, has a capacity of 1,320 megawatts.
According to the Energy Department, there are nearly 1,400 coal-fired power plants with a total of 317 gigawatts of generating capacity. So shutting down 45 gigawatts of coal-fired generation would end about 14 percent of U.S. coal-fired electricity.
Addressing a crowd in Mansfield, Ohio, Mitt Romney promises to put Americans back to work. Watch his entire speech.
Environmental groups are looking to the Obama administration to impose more limits on coal-fired plants.
“The EPA right now has a whole bunch of rules to finalize. What we’re trying to do is ensure that those rules get out, and are commented on appropriately and that the American people’s voice is heard – and that it’s not just coal companies – and that those rules get finalized,” said Heather Taylor, director of the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) Action Fund, a political advocacy group that supports alternatives to coal and is backing Obama.
“We’re especially interested in the standards for existing coal plants. It’s super-important to get those done the right way,” Taylor said. “With an Obama administration, we think that we’re going to be able to deal with air pollution in a very strong way in the next four years.”
Most industry leaders expect a more benign regulatory environment for coal if Romney wins on Nov. 6, said Kyle Danish, an attorney who specializes in energy policy at the Van Ness Feldman law firm in Washington.
Danish said Romney has made a point of drawing a contrast between his views and Obama with such statements as, "In my administration, coal will not be a four-letter word." But he said, “for the most part, the Romney energy platform does not present very explicit plans on coal.”
Is Mitt Romney taking a political risk by focusing on closing tax loopholes for wealthy Americans? Republican strategist Fred Malek and Democratic strategist Ed Rendell debate.
“It would depend on which Romney shows up, right?” said the NRDC Action Fund’s Taylor.
As governor of Massachusetts, Romney had an environmental record that showed “we would have been able to work productively with him,” Taylor said. “As governor, he really seemed like he was listening to all sides and trying to deal with what was in the best interests of his citizens, not necessarily what was in the best interest of his campaign donors.”
But “that guy seems to be long gone” Taylor said. “I’m very nervous that the wrong Romney would show up in the White House on the first day.”
Air quality regulation is one arena where a Romney-appointed EPA chief could have an impact, but much hinges on the courts.
“The key power plant air quality regulation for coal is the Utility Mercury and Air Toxic Standard,” Danish said. “EPA already has finalized that rule. It's subject to legal challenge. A court decision is not likely until next year. If the rule is upheld, there might be little that a Romney administration could do to modify it except perhaps postpone the compliance deadline a year or two.”
If the court overturns the rule, he said, then an EPA headed by a Romney appointee “likely would come back with a more lenient version, but the Clean Air Act and past court decisions place some real boundaries around the options.”
Danish said Romney also has made clear that he opposes using the Clean Air Act to regulate greenhouse gas emissions. “So, if President Romney took office you would not see greenhouse gas regulation of power plants.”
As powerful as the EPA is, the limits to its power are drawn by the court that gets to adjudicate most cases involving federal regulatory agencies, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia circuit.
The court hears challenges to regulations issued not only by the EPA but by the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB), the Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA) and other regulators. “Whatever combination of letters you can put together, it is likely that jurisdiction to review that agency’s decision is vested in the D.C. Circuit,” Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in 2006.
Last month in a two-to-one decision, that court blocked an EPA rule on cross-state air pollution that would have hurt coal producers and coal-fired plants.
“It was a really important message to be sent that EPA does have limits in terms of its overreaching regulations,” said Greg Boyce, chairman and CEO of St. Louis-based Peabody Energy, the largest private-sector coal company in the world.
On the three-judge panel that blocked the EPA rule, the two judges in the majority, Brett Kavanaugh and Thomas Griffith, were both appointed by President George W. Bush. The dissenting judge, Judith Rogers, was appointed by President Bill Clinton.
Since the political battlefield in 2013 and beyond is likely to be largely in the regulatory agencies, the D.C. Circuit court, which now has three vacancies on the 11-member court, will become even more significant. The Supreme Court grants appeals in only a tiny fraction of the decisions from the D.C. Circuit appeals court, so in most cases it is the end of the road for challenges to EPA’s rulings.
One of Obama’s biggest frustrations and failures – due to Republican senators’ opposition and threatened filibusters — is that he has not been able to appoint anyone to that court.
One Obama nominee, Sri Srinivasan, has not yet had a Judiciary Committee confirmation hearing. And last December Democrats failed to get the 60 votes needed to end debate on the other Obama nominee, Caitlin Halligan. Only Sen. Lisa Murkowski, R-Alaska, crossed party lines to vote to end debate and move to confirming Halligan.
Apart from power plant regulation, the coal industry also faces regulatory and court battles on other fronts, whether Obama or Romney is president.
The Obama administration has attempted to impose tighter restrictions on mining in the Appalachians, including mountaintop removal. “Some of these rules were invalidated in federal district courts, and the Obama administration is appealing those decisions. Most in industry believe a Romney administration is likely to drop the appeals and go in a different direction, relying more on the states to oversee permitting and regulation of mining operations,” Danish said.
American coal producers are eyeing potentially lucrative markets in Pacific Rim countries – and here, too, Romney could make a difference.
Danish said, “With demand for coal declining in the United States, the industry is seeking greater access to overseas markets, such as China. A number of port expansion projects in the Pacific Northwest and the Gulf Coast are critical to these exports. The industry generally expects that it will fare better in getting needed permits from a Romney administration.”
A present and future threat to coal’s market share is cheap and abundant natural gas – especially with the boom in shale gas produced by hydraulic fracturing (“fracking”) in Pennsylvania, Ohio and other states.
“The Romney energy platform has some potential negatives for coal,” Danish noted. “The Romney campaign has suggested that a Romney administration would accelerate gas production, including on federal lands, and would ensure that the states have exclusive control over regulation of fracking.” The EPA’s power to tilt in favor of more gas shows how much hinges on that agency and the person the president appoints to head it.
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"As powerful as the EPA is, the limits to its power are drawn by the court"
This not true; the law limits the EPA not the court. The court's decision is and should be based on the law. This EPA has ignored the law and taken matters into its own hands. This is exactly what Obama said he was going to do when the legislation failed through the correct channels of our republic.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-epa-is-earning-a-reputation-for-abuse/2012/05/03/gIQAucvzzT_story.html
http://epaabuse.com/7545/news/latest-epa-power-grab-regulating-ditches-on-private-property/
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/epas-abuse-power_590334.html
Google EPA abuse of power and learn why voting for Obama is a terrible idea for the working middle class.
the EPA has industry by the balls. That is why it is moving overseas as we speak. Yes, Obama supports more EPA laws. People need to wake up.
Romney and his kin don't live anywhere near the downwind side of a coal fired plant. No mercury poisoning for them. Maybe that's part of what makes the rich different?
As for protecting the rest of us; not profitable.
Once again this shows Obama's contempt of the Constitution. I think if he had his way, he would abolish it.
I am surprised that the nasty Redhead is not on here spewing her hatred.
Clean air, we don't need no stinkin clean air.
Clean water, we don't need no stinkin clean water.
I wonder if any of you dip@!$%#s know what happened when the EPA wasn't around to control pollution.
DEAD lakes downwind from the smelters and coal burning power plants.
Clean coal is a fallacy.
I don't know how old you are but I can easily remember the Cayahoga river catching fire, Three Mile Island and the EPA super fund.
Do not be so incredibly ignorant to think that big oil or chemical wouldn't do it all over again in a heartbeat.
The CEO of Arch minerals is a fine one to be talking too!! Arch has been moving all their old retiree's over to Patriot coal so that they can divest themselves of all their legal obligations in one fell swoop!
First they shifted them to Magnum coal then on over to Patriot. Patriot has hardly any actual workers in it and was put in place to fail. Now with ALL Arch's retiree and health liabilities moved to it they've filed for bankruptcy!!
That is one SORRY corporation!! Use their workers up, then go back on the contracts they had with the workers while they were destroying their health mining the coal that's made them the #2 producer in the nation!
What is amazing to me is to read the Republicans on this post defending destroying the environment then putting people down who want to clean it up. It is unbelievable that you people (shades of Annie there) think you're intelligent but don't comprehend the damage we are doing to the planet - or just don't give a damn!
Obama/Biden 2012
Maybe Romney will just resort to importing coal from China!
and for the individual below (paidmyfee) who claims that Willard will lower energy costs to .75 cents a kilowatt...guess they don't understand that Willard will NEVER involve himself in any policy issues when it comes to telling Corporations what they should charge!!! we'll be lucky to get away with $75.00 a kilowatt!!!!!!
Because clearly the EPA and its pollution monitoring existed in the 1700's.
You people are clowns.
Cough....hack.....cough......if Romney is elected.
The truth of the matter here is that coal has far more worries about the price of natural gas a competing source of energy than from the EPA.
True dat. Coal used to be silly cheaper during the 2000's but since natural gas exploration has exploded (no pun intended) - the cost just keeps dropping.
cracker--who is the smartest country?? Who is #1. I will be waiting.
Talk about being a clown, you have no idea who wind power is stored. The major disadvantage of wind turbines numbskull is dealing with the intermittent nature of the power being produced. Do you know what " intermittent" means idiot? It is the opposite of constant.
That is why it has to be stored, typically in a battery. Batteries dissipate power. You know "dissipate means? The power may not be needed when the wind is blowing, and when we do need it, the wind may not be there. Or we may want to save the energy generated at a time when power is cheap and sell it at a later time when power is expensive. In these cases it is desirable to store energy from wind turbines.
Know the subject matter before you post. And don't pretend that you know it, because obviously you don't.
CRACKER--I will answer that for you. Smartest Country with an average IQ of 108.4 is, you guessed it China. How is there EPA standards?? Lets go back to a 3rd World Country, why China ends up where we are. Makes sense to me. WOW!!
With the stock market higher than its ever been in history, I think President Obama has already proven that we don't have to sacrifice our clean air, clean drinking water, and/or safe food in order to make a profit.
Obama/Biden 2012
TO: JERSY GIRL 1 who wrote:
Jersy Girl, you don't even know how to SPELL Jersey which tell us something about you!
President Obama is a Constitutional Scholar.
Republicans, on the other hand either never read the document, or don't understand a word it says.
Obama/Biden 2012
no one is saying to not have some regulations. We have way to many. Companies can not compete with other Countries with less regulations. It is a factor. I also want safe water and clean air. But when you really look at all the regulations, there are some that need to go.
Thanks but I dont need the lecture on power generation and storage. The storage of the wind energy isnt the issue - its the 200 foot tall spinning propeller. Battery storage is required for most green energy sources - but again that is not the issue. But you know that. Because you can Google.
B.S in EE, Associates in electrical maintenance at a local trade school, Worked in a natural gas combined cycle power plant for 6 years as a plant engineer and ran it for another 2 as plant manager. Completed system assessments on coal and NG plants. Assisted Penn State in feasibility studies in wind generation for farmers along Lake Erie.
Whats your background? ROFL!
plsthink90
And you want the U.S to have PM10 levels above 20 micrograms per cubic meter that can cause diseases and infections? You want your kids to live in a country that has PM10 levels from six times to 14 times of the acceptable level?
Let's strive to be like Mongolia, right? - the world's most polluted country. I'll tell you what, you move your family there since you don't give a f*ck about the rest of us.
plsthink90
and what are you trying to prove? That smog and toxic water somehow makes you smarter? Tell you what, smart people die of cancer, too. And guess what, cancer is now the leading cause of death in China.
THAT makes sense to you????????????????
Geeze! You'd think Romney wants to take us back to the 1800's!
Let's pretend, just for a moment, that we are all intelligent and can have a rational thought- without all the hyperbole!!
Romney does indeed like clean air and water- and will work to keep it that way. To think otherwise is idiocy in its finest form!
Coal can be burned cleanly these days and the technology is getting better all the time. But the U.S. is moving towards natural gas in a big way- which means coal will be mined and sold overseas. We can dictate the terms of these sales- clean air technology- as part of the sale.
I just do not see Romney taking us back 200 years into the dark air days. But I also don't see Obama exploring all the options that coal has to offer both in energy and $$$.
How is the war on coal and oil going for you? Keep the regulations coming, see the cost of everything skyrocket.
Some people think these over regulations are good, that they will make people healthier, but the reality is, these extreme regulations are only about money for someone like Al Gore.
Until we have an alternative to coal, we have no choice but to use it to heat, produce electricity, and to build everything made of metal.
If there is no coal production, there will be no jobs, close down the automobile plants.
Lloyd Dahl
Romney wants the regulations of 1800s but the profits of 2012. It's the classic "they want their cake" scenario.
KevinT
yes, especially after what happened in 2008: remember the financial meltown and credit crisis?
also, I wonder how you would feel if your kids were exposed to flammable "drinking" water because of not so much regulated fracking.
John Bayner
You are forgetting who you are trying to convince, these republicans don't care if it will save the planet, they don't care the human race is at stake, they simply don't care, as long as they can get Obama out.
Talk about Tunnel Vision, unbelieveable!
American Girl-724855
TO: JERSY GIRL 1 who wrote:
The same can stated about B H Obama, aka, Barry Soetoro (his legal name since the age of six).
Danno the man:
That is your opinion and I feel for you.
"Romney election could create new scenario for EPA and coal"
Yes, and a flock of winged monkeys erupting from my backside would likely get me a job in the circus.
I give both possibilities the same chance.
The EPA would rather watch you die from West Nile than let a few insects die in addition to mosquitoes when spraying.
Humans are no longer at the top of the food chain according to Obama's EPA
BARRACK OBAMA...FAILED LEADERSHIP
Hopefully this stays right in the middle but we'll see. What is one of the biggest items that drives our economy? Diesel. All those trucks dropping off your groceries at the market, items at (insert your favorite stores here). When the cost of gas goes up do you think the truck drivers just take the hit or do they add that to the cost of the end product? You get to pay the extra.
I'm not saying I support using fossil fuels till death due us part but at the same time until we can have a sustainable energy source that is not going to continue to raise the prices of everything we need to find a happy middle ground which it appears that neither candidate, party or very many posters here would even want to think about a compromise.
Working
Instead of breathing a very minute quantity in the air, you get a much higher dose by accidentally breaking a CFL in your room.
bayllie
The amount of mercury we are putting in our air each year is declining because we are slowly. Where you are getting the increases is in China and others who are building coal powered plants. China is opening 1 new one per week!
As for the 20 Microns. The EPA keeps lowing the number of Microns that will cause health issues. They are doing that with all contaminants. When do you call them on the carpet for keeping their jobs by creating a new crisis?
Yes, Parac, but if we continue to use fossil fuels with no thought to what will replace them when they do run out then we(or our great grand children) will be stuck in the cold, dark future. It takes time and money to research and develop new sources of energy and not all experiments will work out. There will be blind alleys galore. But, if we don't start serious research now, we will certainly be stuck in that cold, dark future.
For Gurnsey Girl, I don't think "nasty" redhead has to add anything. So much of what the right wingnuts have been writing here is mostly lies, hearsay, rumors and second hand idiocy anway, that commenting would just be a waste.
Hey Isane Cracker, why don't you get off your knees and keep your mouth closed for a change. You might like women.
Obama has promised to make regulations so tough that it would drive the coal industry out of business. Since we get over 50% of our energy from coal, it's clear that Obama is trying to destroy our country. Do you really want our consumption to be competing for half the power we have? Last I knew, the current regulations (before Obama) have been doing a pretty good job protecting our environment and providing a good supply. As they say: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
All of the people who want to live in a country with toxic pollution in every drop of water they drink and every breath of air they take should move to China or any number of third world countries with no environmental regulation.
The coal industry is not going out of business. This idea is nothing but right wing propaganda. The main reason coal's commodity value has gone down is because of the huge increase of natural gas shale production. Not because of Barack Obama or the EPA. You're the people that said 'Drill Baby Drill'.
KevinT There is an alternative to coal - natural gas. Our production in gas is rapidly expanding and the price went down. That is the market working.
Just waiting for the EPA to declare natural gas drilling endangers fire ants
Not only the EPA is going to feel the full force of law and order, so is ALL OF MR. OBAMA'S Progressive cabinet members. And the Czars will closely follow them through the EXIT DOOR.
Romney-Ryan 2012 to take back America from the Progressives and the Radicals.
workingpoor-2370498===It looks like you fail to understand that when the cost of energy goes up that the price of everything goes up. Gas, Coal and Oil are at the base of our energy production, you screw with them and the whole nation has a huge price to pay.
The standards that were in place before the dummy Obama got into office was substantial now they are ridiculous. Congress said No tot Cap and Trade and Obama went around them, which is another reason why he has to be replaced. Obama is not the emperor of the United States just another politician with a part time job. Watch the prices go up but you should know that by now they have started up already. Go to the store and do some grocery shopping for the results of the policies that have already taken place.
If you like a lot of the green stuff paint your house green.
Here's a gem:
Doesn't this pretty much summarize the entire Romney campaign?
@ plsthink90, post 1.2
Wake Up? Yes we need to wake up and realize there are other forms of energy that don't do harm to our environment. It is absolutely ridiculous that we are not using Zero Point Energy! If you don't know what it is then you need as you said to WAKE UP! I am already producing 1/3 of the energy I use in my house and plan to be 100% by the end of the year. How's that for waking up? You people that claim the EPA is holding us back not only need to wake up but you need to open your eyes.
One more hypocritical position for the greedy righties. They don't want the debt to be passed on to their children but they give a crap less if those kids die at an early age due to an unliveable environment. Don't have to go back very far in memory to see what happened during the industrial revolution in our country. Why do we even think about re-doing the things that didn't work the first time?? Oh, one other thing, a bad environment doesn't care about political ideology, it treats everyone the same.
If the big boys can get richer off oil, coal, nukes, addictive or dangerous drugs, health insurance companies and hedge funds, to hell with you and your planet.
Their great concern about the deficit and our children is a hoax. Hell, they hold most of the markers themselves. They use fear of the deficit as just another excuse to drain our last drops of blood by destroying our social safety nets while erasing their share of the tax burden.
The Republican leadership has been F-buddies with the big boys in all of my 62 years on Earth. The more things change, the more they stay the same. If you're dumb as a rock and truly enjoy getting screwed, vote Republican.
wildcatwest: What are you talking about? Apparently you don't remember Obama's campaign pitches to put an end to the coal industry. And, yes, coal miners are losing their jobs because mines are being shut down because of the increased cost of Obama regulations. Since you don't think Obama is to blame, then you must agreed that Obama is a liar who can't be trusted. I suppose you believe that Obama was really just postponing a decision on the Keystone Pipeline until after the election too. What chance to you give that it will be approved after Obama is elected? If you give more than a 0% chance then you are delusional.
Keep in mind 500%. If you take all the wind and solar power there is, multiply it by 500%, you get enough energy to run this country.
The United States of America cannot sit at a standstill just because the wind don't blow or it's a cloudy sky.
The history of EPA regulations and the energy and coal industry is this:
EPA proposes regulations to reduce pollution.
Coal and energy industry oppose it tooth and nail, wailing on how it will cost jobs and the economy.
Eventually, the industries have to give in, and in doing so, with a small investment modernize their plants, and reap in even bigger profits due to the efficiencies of the modernization.
So, instead of opposing new regulations, wasting time and money, these industries should simply do the investment needed, modernize, and fix their bottom line. American industry is currently being run by complete imbeciles.
0bama did say he was going to bankrupt any new coal company.
THE COMMIE MUST GO!
pleasethink, you should live up to your moniker...I a, curious as to how President Obama is moving our coal industry overseas? I do not see how it is possible to move those coal deposits, please enlighten me as to how you imagine this is possible.
Romney would, however, create about 80,000 jobs in the industry, I have to admit that.; after all, after he guts regulation for mining safety I am sure we will see a 100% turnover every year as workers get black lung and are either retired for health reasons or drop dead in the mine shaft. Romney will save the industry tons of money since there won't be any pensioners to collect any retirement. Add the gutting of the EPA and he will reduce the number of unemployed since they will be dead from mercury poisoning hat the coal fired electrical plants will produce with no regulation preventing them from destroying our environment. The only downside for Romney is that those he would destroy are the same people who would vote for him...ain't that a crock? But another bright side, he will gut our school systems so he will have a new crop of dummies to replace the chattel he destroys.
No...you keep your utopia, I think my vote has to be for President Obama.
Scott - you must be the dumbest rock on the planet.
Not even close, bucko. Try this:
Yearly Solar fluxes & Human Energy Consumption
Solar
3,850,000 EJ[7]
Wind
2,250 EJ[8]
Biomass
3,000 EJ[9]
Primary energy use (2005)
487 EJ[10]
Electricity (2005)
56.7 EJ[11]
Really Elliot? How about a source for that. (FOX doesn't count)
And "commies"? Really? Are you old geezers still on about that J. Edgar Hoover crap?
Oh, I forgot - you're funded by the Koch brothers.
Whose daddy founded the John Birch Society.
Sound familiar?
Even your hero Ayn Rand thought you guys were idiots:
There they go again....the Obama nuts that just can't wait to take out another job and more of our energy so they can collect welfare whilst breathing "clean" air. HA HA...........um me thinkin the air IS clean and the Obamites are simply against any business that is profitable.
Can't wait till November......
Coal is a dying industry anyway.
Pushing corporate welfare to save it is like spending money to save men's hat makers.
So why don't you talk to us about Solyndra REALAMERICANS? Just askin.
The EPA keeps tightening the screws on industry, costing businesses billions to comply with regulations. What we need are more nuclear power plants not more regulation of coal plants. We need to replace power and not eliminate it.
The EPA is out of control and Lisa Jackson is a big pusher on global warming and United Nations agenda. Obama let's her get away with anything.
Ok ...real Americans first....so GM isn't corporate welfare? the TARP bailout isn't corporate welfare? These companies should have filed chapter 11 not stick the taxpayer with the bailout bill. Oh and don't forget the millions in bonuses these bankers got from the taxpayers. Now comes the IRS and rewards a felon of UBS bank $104 million for whistle blowing. Must be nice. Pay the crooks....screw the people.
Oldfatguy.... not that your name is predictive of your position or anything, but:
Actually you are correct oldfatguy. Humans are NOT the top of the food change or the "dominari vita forma" to be more specific. Science would actually validate that point. However, I'm fairly certain that you will not believe me, so you should look no further than your own statement for validation of my point. What species of life is at the top of the food chain? Viruses.
OK for all the a$$holes blasting the EPA on here and blaming them for over regulating industry...please, please, please list one 3rd world country that you have worked in, in the last decade. Just one! I spend a large portion of each year working in China, so if we want to talk about a nation that is brought up here often, lets do that. I would love for all of you people that don't like the EPA to come over here and live among the people you seem to think have an industrial advantage over American citizens because of EPA regulation. I would love to see all of you adapt to the lifestyle here of the average person that lives next to a retention pond filled with trash and algae, or take a nice country drive and wonder what that sweet smell in the air is (pesticide), or just cozy up next to the coal burning furnaces that are everywhere from barn heaters to the local power plant. It sure is nice cleaning the INSIDE windows of your home and seeing the rag turn as black as the rags you use to clean engine parts or the brake dust off your chrome wheels.
The Chinese that visit me in the US are almost always immediately struck by how clean our air is and beautiful our countrysides are, but I can't remember one that has avoided capitalizing on an American business opportunity because of EPA regulations. You should be thankful that an army of scientists are testing the effects of human action on our environment, or least let your grandchildren have that chance. It's time to stop whining and get out more
I assume that everyone here knows the song "Smoke on the Water". That song was about a real life event where a river/lake was lit on fire because of all of the pollution and crap that had been pumped into by your same buddy old pals in said "industries".
If corporations want to pollute that can go to China for all I care, I do not want them in my country screwing up the environment for the all mighty dollar. When China becomes uninhabitable because its too polluted they will come back begging us to take them in.
Hey everybody! Remember the air quality pictures of China during their Olympics. It will be just like that here if Myth Romney is elected. With rivers catching on fire and dark breathable days, in the large cities. I live in rural Hawaii, but with our NE trade winds our air quality will take a big hit, it will be like the volcano going off all the time!!
When a convicted felon behind bars gets 41% of the vote over an incumbent potus...I'd say that the tribe has spoken. Bankrupting the coal companies was O's plan all along.
If liberals weren't so dense that would know there is "clean coal" but they have their head too far up ...you know where.
GM is losing $49,000.00 on every Volt they make. Almost all of O's "go green" investments are bankrupt. The list of negatives is endless. The EPA and their overkill and O's policies have crippled this nation.
Not only is the EPA an unconstitutional agency, the EPA raid on Gibson guitars ought to show any left-winger-statist that giving government the power to stop peaceful transactions in order to block what they don't like will also give government the power to block peaceful transactions that THEY DO LIKE!
Obama Must Go!
Voiceinmyhead
hahaha, nice catch!
Well another desperate move by Romney, the next vote he will be soliciting will be the KKK and the Skin heads, Oop's sorry he already has their vote Obama is the wrong color .... Gee, what is this the dumbing down of America, people just needs to watch when this CLOWN talks and you can clearly see he is lying through his teeth 85% of the time. He wouldn't know the truth unless FOX & NORQIST told him what it should be!
Mitt Romney has accused President Obama of starting a “War on Coal”, but it is the oil & gas industry that stands to benefit most from the Clean Air Act. Oil & gas giants have donated nearly $2,285,000.00 to Romney’s campaign; Exxon, the Koch Brothers, Oxbow Corp, Chesapeake Energy and Chevron plus the nearly $300,000.00 Paul Ryan has garnered from them [1] . Follow the money. The oil & gas companies are delighted about restrictions on coal; it benefits them immensely.
The CEO of natural-gas giant Chesapeake Energy, Aubrey McClendon, donated more than $25 million to the Sierra Club for its “Beyond Coal” campaign, which included lawsuits that produced both the mercury and greenhouse-gas rules Romney says are the basis of Obama’s war on coal [2]. The coal-fired power plants say, in order to meet emission standards, they may need to convert to natural gas. Who stands to benefit?
The regulation proposes emissions targets of 1,000 pounds of CO2 per megawatt-hour of generation, and coal-fired power plants will need to use carbon capture technology to meet the standards, BUT it applies only to new, non-peaking natural gas & coal-fired power plants that might be built in the future, NOT to existing power plants, existing power plants that undertake upgrades that deem them a “new source” or to peaking gas-fired power generators[3].
That’s key to understanding this regulation. There are no new coal-fired power plants in the pipeline that this rule might cover & no prospect of any unless natural gas prices hit at least $9.60 per million BTU on a sustained basis. Nearly all the gas-fired power plants that will be built will meet these standards without any additional costs. The regulation will impose negligible costs[4]. Conservatives should be euphoric about these regulations & environmentalists spitting mad.
The question that you should be asking yourself is, when the gas & oil industry have pushed the coal industry out of business, what then will you be paying for the gas? Who is the real enemy of coal? Who would profit if the coal companies lose?
The coal industry has shown employment growth over 9% in Pennsylvania since Obama took office. In 2008, there were an average of 7,829 employees working in the coal industry in Pennsylvania according to a fact check by the Mine Safety and Health Administration. In the first half of 2012, there was an average of 8,567 employees and in Ohio coal jobs have increased 10% under Mr. Obama and there is strong evidence that the coal-burning power plants being closed would have been shut down soon without the EPA regulations because of their age. Ed Good, a Steubenville utility worker at Sammis Coal Plant in Stratton says Republicans are misrepresenting Obama's position on coal. "We see these signs all the time without disclaimers, we see this perception that there's a war on coal, it's simply not true," he said. "There are more mining jobs right now than there has been in the last 14 years."[5].
Romney's record suggests he favors regulation. In 2005, Romney lauded the state's establishment of carbon emission limits that he said, "will provide real and immediate progress in the battle to improve our environment." He hired environmental activist Douglas Foy to head four Massachusetts agencies; Transportation, Commonwealth Development, Housing and Environment & Energy. Foy served as negotiator on a regional climate-change initiative and helped draft regulations to put emissions caps in place for coal-fired power plants. Foy stood at Romney’s side outside a coal-fired plant while Romney explained, "I will not create jobs or hold jobs that kill people, and that plant, that plant kills people."[6]. Romney also backed a regional cap-and-trade system. In Dec. 7, 2005 press release, Romney announced, "These carbon emission limits will provide real and immediate progress in the battle to improve our environment," and touted Massachusetts as "the first and only state to set CO2 emissions limits on power plants."[7].
Romney talks of the need to keep energy jobs in America, but he opposes vehicle fuel efficiency standards that have resurrected the American auto industry and put thousands of Americans back to work. Romney opposes the wind production tax credit, an industry employing more than 75,000 Americans, while he supports subsidies of billions of dollars to the oil and gas industries. There is no doubt about Mitt Romney's allegiance to fossil fuel interests.[8].
The bottom line is that Oil & Gas stand to profit from limiting coal production. Romney has already profited, and stands to profit even more, from them. It is Romney who has declared war on coal. Obama is simply trying to keep the coal industry responsible to the people who are impacted by their operations.
Sources
[1] OpenSecrets.org
[2] New York Times 2/13/2012
[3] EPA / epa.gov
[4] Mine Safety and Health Administration
[5] CBS News 7/16/2012 / cbsnews.com
[6] Press Conference – Collins Cove, Mass
[7] Scribd.com
[8] Wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Mitt_Romney /Energy & the Environment
Additional Sources:
PolitiFact√.com
3/30/2012 Romney-Supported TV advertisement; promise to oil industry re: subsidies
The Week 8/29/2012
Fox News archives
MSNBS News archives
CBS News archives
Boston Globe
Washington Post
Tampa Bay Times
Cleveland Plain Dealer
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
The Hill
DB Akron
I'm not sure how to respond because I don't know where you are going with this. I cannot tell from you incomple/vague sentences if you are agreeing or diagreeing.
Stop lying Geowill.
Deep purple's song "smoke on the water" is about a casino burning down.
Nice fear mongering though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_on_the_Water#History
D.Appell..
If Aubrey McClendon would not have donated that $25 million to the Sierra Club maybe his company would not be having to sell their Ft Worth office tower.
Cheap natural gas will limit coal production as it should.
American Energy Independence will defund OPEC as it should.
Romney wants to achieve that independence by 2020. This will create hundreds of thousands of private sector jobs that pay very well and pay equally big taxes.
Sounds like a win win deal to me.
I say let the EPA run the country, oh wait it is. Better get ready for the soup line. I can not believe all those willing to destroy America. It is about done. Good job to all!
How about an interview on video with the San Francisco Chronicle?
You are dangerously uneducated on your messiah. The guy is a total waste of space and has no business being president.
"If somebody wants to build a coal fueled plant, they can. It's just that we'll bankrupt them because they will be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas thats being emitted." 0BAMA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DpTIhyMa-Nw#t=136s
You're welcome.
We are parasites floating on a spec of dust and Republicans refuse to appreciate the spec we call earth.
Letting the Coal industry do as they wish and gutting the EPA is Romney's solution to the Social Security funding problem. Getting retired people to die earlier will save billions.
Hey elliot - I call LIE.
Go watch that video you posted. You totally changed the words of the "quote". AND took it out of context.
Clear proof: YOU LIE!
Vote Romney in 2012 or learn to enjoy lighting your home for .75 cents a kilowatt.
Thus far, 99% of what Obama has said or done on energy is a total lie. He forgot to mention dropping coal, buying windmills and electric cars will cost the avergae American about $2000.00 per year in additional energy costs.
Not to mention the increased costs in EVERYTHING made, shipped or sold in America. Energy is required for EVERYTHING.
Why limit our energy production? Because Obama and the far left DESPISE our nation and seek to destroy in from within if possible. Ruining every industry and destroying every business is a good way to start.
They hate coal, oil, natural gas, wood and any form of heat generated by anything other than the sun.
Environmential terrorists from the EPA are about as reasonable as the typical middle eastern terrorist. They seek to cripple our nation and expose it for the kill.
The next 9/11 attacker will be wearing a hemp shirt and working from the Obama White House.
Not a chance of my family or I voting for Robme pmf!
Just like if Obama was elected he was gonna take your guns.
Your fear mongering tactics only work on stupid people.
Vote for Obama if you want clean air & clean water & energy independance from oil companies.
Move foward not back
Obama 2012
Yeah, because having a clean environment is a bad thing......(rolls eyes).
The only reason that Republicans demonize green energy is because they are beholden to big oil and the Koch brothers.
The new fuel economy standards have done more to make us energy independent than anything Republicans have suggested.
JERSY GIRL 1I am surprised that the nasty Redhead is not on here spewing her hatred.
JERSY GIRL 1And, if you disagree with the Libs, you are the one who is dumb. They are mean and nasty and really don't care about their fellow Americans.
Guess you're picking up the slack.
Last time I checked a kilowatt hour of electricity was about 12 cents.
Damn that Obama, President for 3.7 years and the price of electricity is the same.
Fearmongering POS Republicans with their hoard of mindless zombies.
Snooki wannabe, get a @!$%#ing clue.
Interestingly, I think, is that this administration does not consider hydro-electric as a renewable energy source. Living in an area of the country where the country's largest dam has provided us with inexpensive, reliable energy, it's frustrating to see the requirements that our local power companies have to find "renewable energy sources" so that we are not relying on "non-renewable energy sources" (hydroelectric).
Obama didn't take your guns, but he sure made life a lot harder. Since he was elected, most everything has went up in price, some things are up 100%. How is that working for you? You have less money now because you voted for stupidity.
Insults only shows your true IQ. I posted facts, how about you do the same, or do you have the intelligence to do it?
How is that $4 a gallon of gas working for you. You screamed when Bush was president and gas went that high.
T2q Mom
What are you gonna do when the water runs out? Did you ever hear about droughts ? DUH!
HYDRO SHOULD BE renewable but with climate change how can you be sure the water is going to be there? it's a simple question! Hope you don't live in TEXAS !
Maybe you can give me a simple answer?
Actually Kevin, since Obama has been President my family has a lot more money. I work in the PRIVATE sector and have seen a payroll reduction from the Bush era rolled back. My wife got a job last year in the PRIVATE sector that is now full time. Our health insurance has greater coverage, even on my wife's PRIVATE plan that we pay for out of our own pocket. So I will vote for Obama to keep the prosperity going.
Why limit our energy production? Because our energy resource is limited! I guess we could just go wild and produce oil and coal and gas and whatever without limit but what would our grandchildren use? Sure, if we ever get fusion power to work we might be OK, but practical fusion power has been 50 years away for the past 50 years.
Trouble is, by that time the world will be so polluted that nothing can live on it but cockroaches.
KevinT You say that since Obama was elected many things have gone up in price; well, I could say that since George Washington was elected most everything has gone up in price. Inflation has always been with us and, I suppose, it always will be. Just wait until clean water is $10 a liter and clean air isn't available at all.
By the way, real middle class wages have been dropping for 30 years, ever since we elected the Gipper.
Yeah, why vote for Obama and pay .75 cents a kilowatt when you can vote for Romney and pay $3 a kilowatt! Romney is in favor of nothing but profit, profit, profit! Somehow, all that profit will result in prosperity... in China! Same as he was when he ran Bain. Yeah, he created lotsa jobs... in China!
Natural gas is way cleaner. With fracking technology natural gas has become overabundant and super cheap. Way cheaper than coal. Like it or not the market and NOT the EPA will end coal burning in the US.
How the eff is it Obama's fault that gas prices are 4$ a gallon which in turn makes everything else go up in price?
If the government fiddles with gas prices somehow, well that's socialism / communism / fascism, imposing big government overreach. But if he lets the "free market" decide the price of gas well he's a socialist/communist/fascist who doesn't care about America as well.
That's the problem with you illogical right-wing idiots, you let emotion and hate interfere with critical thinking skills.
btw "voting for stupidity" from a person who voted for Sarah Palin? Now that's rich.
Yeah, man - Obama has just raised prices on everything!
I know it's true because Rush said so!
Funny how inflation has only averaged 1.47% a year since Obama took office, isn't it?
http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/
GAWD, why is the right so bad at math?
John Bayer, take your medical weed and toke all you may. Obama has been a failure. The tactics that are being used to make Romney look "evil" are typical of the left. Get used to it.....another face in the White House this November.
The GOP count on the ignorant people, they set the standard for what stupid is, the Recession that was caused by the GOP was not enough for them to learn so if you don't learn from your fist mistake what would you all call that STUPID RIGHT!
KEVINT--libs don't like facts, it messes with their utopia.
The fact is the EPA has done some very good things, the problem now is that the cost of any future good things out way the benefit. What is the point of having ever tighter regulations that force things to be produced some where else without regulation? Are we actually seeing a net gain in clean air around the world? or are we just shipping the pollution to other countries?
Compact flourescent bulbs are not made in the United States at all. Ever wonder why that is? Is it due to the materials used to make them? Is it labor or regulation costs?
With an ever expanding population we are going to constantly need more energy. Granted there might be dips in actual usage, but over time it will continue to increase. The question then becomes what are we doing to meet these future needs?
Green energy right now is a myth. Solar is not green. Wind power is not green. Hydroelectric is not green. So we have to choose something that we can use with our present technology and resources.
Sam,
where is your proof that Democrats are so smart?
Romney want's to give the coal industry total freedom, thus creating a whole new market for bottled clean air.
Does Willard understand the concept of "don't sh!t where you eat"?
Do you??
What an answer! What a profound argument Plubius!
I'm sure Thurman feels completely destroyed by your insightful and clear answer.How old are you? Three?
Wow. Sorry I hurt your feelings.
You can go hide under your bed now.
You have a complete misunderstanding of the difference between hurting someone's feelings and being laughed at like an imbecile.
WilliamOfRites - touche!
I seriously doubt it, especially if there is profit involved. He just doesn't get it People want clean air, clean water, they want their kids to have a good life after they are gone, they want the human race to survive to the 22nd century at least.
But I suppose all republicans care about is "I got mine, so screw you"
Obama 2012
Mitt doesn't care because the super rich will live in the global "green zones", where the water is clean.
They will have private police forces. They will fly in private airspace.
The super rich like MItt are no longer US citizens ... they are global citizens, which is why so much of Mitt's money is "off-shore".
JoePhilly
That explains a lot ! Good post !
there should be a global citizen TAX @ 90% of income, take that defict.
This is why it is IMPERATIVE that we EXPAND the size of the Government to INCLUDE the whole world, as the founding fathers truly believed the document they were writing COULD include all people on earth. That is why they only used the word "person" instead of "citizen."
Government has to be larger than the largest corporation.
NO, the RICH don't think their sh_t stinks .... LOL So they sh_t wherever they can ... LOL And most of the time that is on the Middle Class!
LOL,
you guys are great.
So lets Tax everyone at 90%, see who is left working then? I am sure that our economy would be booming.
Joephilly,
So should we shut down every company that pollutes?
Sam,
really, so the poor never ever throw their trash out the window, never spray paint their neighbors wall.
can you understand that there are rich who care just like there are poor who do not.
The only reason we are even debating these things is that we have the free time. Meaning that we are not struggling every minute of every day to feed ourselves and our children.
24g5
Really, NBC?! Did you really have to tell us that? If your readers are too dumb to know that already, then they won't understand this article, anyway.
Remember NBC is targeting democrats. They are stupid, uninformed and unwilling to learn or even listen to a contrary opinion.
It is reasonable to expect "spoon feeding".
And, if you disagree with the Libs, you are the one who is dumb. They are mean and nasty and really don't care about their fellow Americans.
Whenever a presidential election rolls around, you people who are the idiologues of your respective parties seem to become even more single-minded than usual. This comment was poking some light-hearted fun at NBC over a silly sentence included in the article. I suppose I could have made my comment about toilet paper and you still would've found some way to turn it into, "Democrats are evil/stupid/whatever."
That said, I'll dignify your response with an analysis explaining why it's a load of crap:
So, one person called all Democrats "stupid," then the very next reply accused Democrats of being mean and calling people stupid. The cognitive dissonance is mind-blowing.
What's really amusing about this discussion is that it has absolutely nothing, whatsoever to do with my original comment lol.
Paidmyfee: Oh yes, I'm sure you are enlightened every day by the crap spouted by Fox and Co.
O'Reilly: "NO ONE at Fox ever said that if you don't get insurance you would go to jail."
Video clips of o"Reilly, Hannity, Beck, and another one of their scumbags saying exactly that were shown on MSNBC and CNN just a couple of days ago. Of course those videos must be fake, right?
They lie with a straight face and then deny they lie with a straght face. What a bunch of low lives.
*sigh* I was just trying to make a silly joke. I was going for cheap laughs, not this. Would it help if I wore a clown suit next time?
Hmmmm, sounds a lot like the arguments for WMD's in Iraq. Bush pushed that one through. But then, he was targeting Republicans. They were stupid, uniformed and unwilling to learn or even listen to a contrary opinion.
Just where are those pesky WMD's anyway?
We learned to be mean from the Republicans and NOW they are whining about it, Gee, if you can't take the heat stay the HELL OUT OF THE KITCHEN. The Democrats are tired of the constant whining from the RIGHT it's worst then being married, Nag Nag Nag, you people never made an effort to fix the problems our country faces in 8 years of the BUSH nightmare and here you clowns are crying like little girls day in and day out, get the picture.
EEngineer,
He did have chemical weapons because we gave them to him. I totally agree that it was stupid for us to go in there. But if we are going to end up in Libya, how is that any better? There was over 100,000 civilians that had been killed in Iraq by Saddam.
The Roman Legion EPA is one of the reasons why companies have been running off shore, mostly to China, like GM and GE. Combined with the highest corporate tax on the planet, Unions, and above all Obamacare, there will little manufacturing here in the U.S. Why would they??
What did we get from Obama's $867 Billion stimulus package filled with his trickle up policies? Well, do we really need to go there?

2.6 million Commercial foreclosures
Over 3.8 million business have gone out of business
38,000 US products moved offshore for manufacturing
The lowest number of patents in 35 years
If four years with $867 Billion of Obama's trickle policies could not fix the economy, what makes anyone think that the next four years will be any different with out it???
Romney Ryan Eastwood
"Highest corporate tax on the planet."
Then how come the big corporations pay less than I do?
LOOPHOLES!! They never pay anything close to what they should, but that is not enough for them, so they move overseas to pay NO TAX. Romney sounds familiar?
The peak of patriotism.
Good shot, Publius! The one thing Democrats forget about Oblameo's "trickle up" policies is that you CANNOT piddle UP a rope.
Get educated. GE has a 1000 man department who's only purpose is to find loopholes and not pay taxes.

This is the same GE that made $5.1 billion in the United States last year but
paid no taxes-the same company that employs more people overseas than it does in
the United States.
Apparently Immelt's idea of being part of the solution is to ship as many jobs overseas as he possibly can.
A recent article on the Huffington Post documented how GE has been sending tens of thousands of good jobs out of the country....
As the administration struggles to prod businesses to create jobs at home, GE has been busy sending them abroad. Since Immelt took over in 2001, GE has shed 34,000 jobs in the U.S., according to its most recent annual filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission. But it's added 25,000 jobs overseas.
At the end of 2009, GE employed 36,000 more people abroad than it did in the U.S. In 2000, it was nearly the opposite.
GE is supposed to be creating the "jobs of tomorrow", but it seems that most of the "jobs of tomorrow" will not be located inside the United States.
The last GE factory in the U.S. that made light bulbs closed last September. The transition to the new CFL light bulbs was supposed to create a whole bunch of those "green jobs" that Barack Obama keeps talking about, but as an article in the Washington Post noted, that simply is not happening..
Yea, and look at China's polution problems, is that what you want for the U.S.A. ?
Get Real that is not a plan any sane American will vote for!
Obama may not be perfect but he's a LOT better than a corporate raider that will sell his soul to be president, NO THANK YOU!
Bull@!$%#. Substantiate or stfu please.
Last time I checked Eastwood wasn't running, and sounds like he should be in a retirement home for people with dementia.
SORRY, total FAILURE !
Dandy416
Publius* is correct on his assertions about GE. They do have that department for just finding loopholes, and they did not pay taxes, in fact they got a very large return from the IRS in addition to no tax bill.
With that said, voting for Romney is like putting a gun to your head and pulling the trigger and hoping it's not loaded.
NO THANK YOU !
Yea, and look at China's polution problems, is that what you want for the U.S.A. ?
Get Real, that is not a plan any sane American will vote for!
Obama may not be perfect but he's a LOT better than a corporate raider that will sell his soul to be president,
They just don't get it, never did, never will !
I was aware of the tax return - most of their loses were with GE Capital during the recent collapse. The rest of their divisions have remained fairly stable (locomotives and such).
I disagreed with his assertion that most of the GE jobs are over seas.
Yeah, all he has to offer is this:
...the numbers for Bush's last three months. Between October and November, 597,000 jobs were lost; between November and December, 681,000 were lost; and between December and January, 741,000 were lost.
April 2012 marks the 26th straight month of gains in private-sector employment, for a total of 4.2 million private-sector jobs.
DJIA Dec 26, 2008 8515
DJIA Aug 31, 2012 13090
Dec 29, 2008 U.S. corporate earnings probably fell for a sixth-straight quarter, the longest streak in at least 20 years, as consumer spending on automobiles, homes and retailers collapsed.
May 11, 2012 Fortune magazine released its ranking of the 500 biggest US corporations Monday, which showed that they received a record-breaking $824 billion in combined profits in 2011, up 16 percent from 2010.
Guess that kinda explains why Romney is no longer concentrating on the economy, huh?
Quite clearly by his posts, Danno is indeed the man!
Yeah PUBIC*,
Now GE's business practices, which are only enjoying the Rightwing IRS loopholes, is all Obama's fault? Holy SH|T the absolute shilling you do for your Corporate owners is mindnumbing.
Our idiot in Chief is to dumb to know the physics just are not there for Wind and Solar. Why? Because they are not constant. The energy has to be stored at the Source where it dissapates. Then it has to transformed from D.C. to A.C. and transmitted down the line where it looses more of it's effective power. That is why Solar and Wind could never drive the engine of manufacturing. But hey, companies are running to China anyway because of Obama's trickle up policies. So, why should we worry.
Obama's head for Business? He invests $20 Billion in Green energy that was suppose to create 5 Million jobs. Wa waaaaa. More Obama failures.
This is a list of just some Obama's Green Jobs failures:
LightSquared
BrightSource
Beacon Power Corp
Ener1 Inc
NextEra
Amonix Inc
Abound solar
A 123 systems
First Solar
Oh, almost forgot, Solyndra
Now, compare with just some of Romney and Bain Capital successes. They employ millions of Americans and can be seen on every street corner of your city or town:
AMC Entertainment
Home Deport
Aspen Education Group
Brookstone
Burger King
Burlington Coat Factory
Clear Channel Communications
Domino's Pizza
DoubleClick
Dunkin' Donuts
D&M Holdings
Guitar Center
Hospital Corporation of America (HCA)
Sealy
The Sports Authority
Staples
Toys "R" Us
Warner Music Group
The Weather Channel
That is what you get when you have a commuity organizer risking your money, instead of a CEO.
Plubius, your ignorance and idiocy are becoming more and more evident with every single word you say.
Facts are not fabricated, facts are facts, and you have none of them in your empty brain.
If there is a fact to wish to dispute, then by all means, dispute it.
Otherwise you just look like a kid who just got his toy taken away by another bigger kid.
@Rasputin
That is your argument against Publius?.... Wow that was really bad.
Rasputin, let me help you... to boost your debate skills and your power of persuasion I recommend re-enrolling in 3rd grade and practicing on them a while. I believe most of the Chicago kids are free to debate you today.
Spoken like a true neophyte with zero background in power generation, physics or engineering.
First off - the energy does not need to be stored at the source where it dissipates (WTF does that even mean?). WInd and solar converted energy can be transmitted and stored wherever. And while solar is collected and converted to AC - windmills can and do produce AC - you would know that if you knew wtf you were talking about.
And lastly - power line loses exist whether you generate power from coal - gas or wind. So your stupid assertion that lines losses are specific to solar or wind is just that - stupid.
The reason solar sucks right now is that it has a horrible sq / kW ratio - which is the power generated for a given square foot of solar cells. Wind sucks because you need an enormous structure to generate a decent amount of power.
Also - new coal power generation facilities have such advanced scrubbing technology that coal generated power is approaching the same level of environmental impact as natural gas. Old coal facilities however spew horrible amounts of pollutants.
Get a clue.
I love facts.
Rasputin-2589057 facts please.
Here is a site with the largest Co's for wind. GE power if you read the description is the only US Corporation. It doesn't say where the wind turbines are built. mywindpowersystem.com
Dead wrong about A123 Systems in the "failure" column of the first post, so what else might be wrong with those alleged "facts"? A123 took over a large office/manufacturing building in Livonia, Michigan which had been vacant for several years. It's very nice to drive past and see activity in that building again. It's a good location and a beautiful facility which had been formerly used by Technicolor to produce recordings on VHS tapes.
Bain and Romney may have created millions of jobs from the companies listed above (#7), but the majority of those places are minimum wage go nowhere jobs, that probably do not employ most people at 40 hrs/ week. I've worked at Dunkin and BK, so I feel pretty comfortable making that assertion.
Well it's a job. Obama has not created jobs - I am sick of the Dems twisting numbers to make it look like he did. He just plays a waiting game till people fall off the unemployment and go to welfare and the #'s go down and he calls it "job creation" and they came out with a report that those jobs are mostly at the mall.
Been There, I won't deny that it's a "job," however, many people who work at those minimum wage jobs do not have the necessary income to make ends meet, so how do think they supplement their measly earnings from those crap jobs? Probably from government programs. So even though they have jobs, they may still require assistance.
I'm fortunate enough to have a wife with a decent job, thus affording me the privilege of being a stay at home dad. The only reason I stoop to taking such crappy work, is for the extra spending money. I would imagine that the typical Dunkin employee who is getting 30 hrs/ wk is not quite so fortunate. What it is I'm trying to say (though not very well) is that Romney is just as bad as Obama since his crappy jobs still force people to remain on the government's teat.
Not trying to be combative in this case, just this election isn't going to have a great outcome no matter the result. Obama is weak and Romney wears the trappings of a thief. IMO
Oops. This just struck me as well. I'm not in the corner for either candidate as both of them suck in some way or another. I did notice, though that you stated (7.9)that the newest jobs report included mall employment. Just curious, but how are crappy minimum wage mall jobs less desirable than Bain crap jobs? They are still both big piles of crap (I feel comfortable making that assertion as well since I worked at Bradley's and Diedrich's Coffee Plantation in malls).
Oh yeah, Burger King is a prime example:
NYTimes, June 22, 2012
Financial engineering has been part of the Burger King story for so long that it’s hard to believe there is still anything worth plucking from its carcass. “It’s been run as a cash cow for Wall Street,” said Bob Goldin, an executive vice president of Technomic, a food service consulting firm. Along the way it’s had 13 chief executives in 25 years, numerous strategy shifts and marketing campaigns — and has been constantly starved for cash. But, hey, the private equity guys got theirs. And isn’t that what really matters?
Domino's pizza - Bain must have done an especially good job there:
2:53 pm October 13, 2011, by jgalloway
That said, many are pointing out that in its July spending report, the campaign of GOP presidential candidate Herman Cain, former CEO of Godfathers’, sent out for $850 worth of pizza.
From Domino’s.
Yep, Bain did a heller job!
Sun Apr 22, 2012
Workers at Domino's and Bright Horizons, which Romney helped turn around at Bain, don't make much either. Delivery drivers at Domino's earn an average of $7.66 per hour, according to Glassdoor.com, which adds up to less than $16,000 per year. Teachers at Bright Horizons make an average of $12.94 per hour, according to Glassdoor.com, amounting to about $27,000 per year.
Meanwhile, Romney enriched himself while leading Bain Capital, amassing a fortune of more than $200 million, which translates to roughly $6,400 an hour.
Publius - The Tea Party Wants YOU! You meet at least 7 of the following Tea Party characteristics and therefore, YOU can be a Tea Party member now!
What the Tea Party Believes -
. Believes in Ideological Purity
. Believes Compromise is a Weakness
. Believes the Scripture is Literally Factual
. Denies Science but uses Medical Facilities
. Unmoved by Facts
. Undeterred by New Information
. Demonizes Education
. Morbid Fear of Progress
. Seeks to Control Women’s Bodies
. Likes Strong Military but Dodges Taxes
. Irrational Fear of Non-Whites
. Tribal Mentality
. Intolerance of Dissent
. Pathological Hatred of the US Government
. Believes that Lying is a Form of Art
. Believes Hypocrisy is a Virtue
. And Harming the Country is Fine to Get Elected
Heck, you probably have more than 7 Tea Party Characteristics!
DipSh|t,
First of all, try understanding feeding the grid.
Try looking up thing like Bloomenergy.com
Try thinking like, Hmmm, Bain RESTRUCTURES corporations, so in effect he CUTS jobs. There is no way you are going to let anyone give credit to Bain or Robme for creation of jobs, without first showing how many jobs were present at these corporations BEFORE Bain came in to plunder their wealth. Show us the NET jobs, and I will show you a NEGATIVE number.
Bain is the BANE of Humanity.
Thanks for the list.
Enjoy your Hell in November, You Built it. Obama/ Biden 4 more then Hillary/2016
Have you ever been near a coal fired power plant? I have, and I can tell you that the sh!t that comes out of those smoke stacks is not something you want your kids breathing.
Really, I think we all would like to see move by a nuclear power plant, next to a river, where you can get your drinking water.
I think Coal is cleaner today than ever. They have scrubbers and vents etc. But our ground water is being destroyed.
Nuclear is much cleaner then Coal. Three Mile Island released less radiation in its worst day the a coal plant releases in a normal day. Coal is dirty no matter how you do it.
But how close does Romney live to a coal plant? How about Ryan? They don't care! They got theirs. You gotta get yours so you don't have to live next to those coal plants!
I don't give a hoot go ahead and pollute !! Just give me more profits !!
Tsk, tsk HuffnStuff
Bobnstuff
Nuclear is much cleaner then Coal. Three Mile Island released less radiation in its worst day the a coal plant releases in a normal day. Coal is dirty no matter how you do it.
Comparing a Nuke with a coal plant on the release of radiation? Like WTF? Coal doesnt release radiation. Not that I want EITHER technology, because BOTH suffer from problems with the MINING of source material, and then Nuclear has to worry about storing the waste for 50,000 years. Like the secure U.S. stockpiles will be able to secured for that long. Oh My gawd you right wingers are absolutely nutz.
Pubic* ,
Wind power does not need batteries. Wind farms feed the grid directly and contribute to the public power that same as any other power source. Get a grip. If we were to allow our homes to have personal windmills, and solar, yes, I would want a battery system to store the energy when it is plentiful, for use when it is needed. That is called being smart. In your world, we should fire up the nuke every time we turn on the light bulb.
Sh|t for brains.
See with Pubic*
There is always a trade off. He/she/it cannot comprehend using mutliple forms of renewable energy to suffice the needs of the common grid. Total succubus of corporate power. We should be granularizing the grid down to local power production which will allow reduced reliance on the grid, and local power production will feed the grid from multiple sources providing security from grid failure and/or terrorism. Get rid of the central power producer and make your power locally.
You have got to be out of your "frackin" mind to allow "fracking" anywhere near your state.
Better than shaving off mountians. That is far worse.
Again. Dumb @!$%#.
Hydraulic fracturing has nothing to with shaving off mountain tops. It is an exploit to create larger veins in underground gas deposits.
You should probably stop posting in this thread as you have no idea wtf you are talking about. Go find something more on your level of intelligence.
Your an idiot. It is called surface mining. They take the whole mountain top off that stood for millions of years.
It is the opposite of underground mining, which fraking falls under
Are you really this stupid? Do some research for christ sake before you post.
But the original poster said fracking. Why were you refering to surface mining? Learn to read dummy.
Your grammar blows too.
They also use it for Uranium. They don't surface mine anymore. They pump water into the groundwater aquifers and let the uranium go to the bottom and then pump it up out and into dryers for yellow cake. Usually only good for power plants. But still better than mining it in an open pit or underground where workers are exposed to it.
Learn to comprehend. Shaving off the tops of mountains is far worse than fraking. A fact that flew over your brain-washed knoggin like a frizbee.
While your at it, comprehend this:
You have no idea how wind technology works. The major disadvantage of wind turbines numbskull is dealing with the intermittent nature of the power being produced. Do you know what " intermittent" means idiot? It is the opposite of constant.
That is why it has to be stored, typically in a battery. Batteries dissipate power. You know "dissipate means? The power may not be needed when the wind is blowing, and when we do need it, the wind may not be there. Or we may want to save the energy generated at a time when power is cheap and sell it at a later time when power is expensive. In these cases it is desirable to store energy from wind turbines.
Know the subject matter before you post. And don't pretend that you know it, because obviously you don't.
Now, that I have had your lunch, I will go for your dinner.
Shaving off mountain tops is worse than polluting underground water systems and streams? What a silly comparison.
Edit: And what does that have to do with fracking anyways? You are horrible.
And I responded to the rest of your tripe above. You are obviously in waaaaay over your head.
Wind and solar power can go directly into the grid.
We could use an upgrade in our grid network, but the Republicans think more tax breaks for the wealthy is more important than upgrading and repairing our infrastructure, you know the things you morons DIDN'T build.
But with out subsidies wind does not even pay for itself in the lifetime of the equipment.
Been There-406834
You don't know what you are talking about. How can something that you have to buy fuel for be more efficent than something that doesn't require fuel ?
You are talking nonsense !
LEARN the subject before posting, Oh I forgot your'e a republican aren't you?
No reply required
Not a republican, not part of either worthless party. But work in a Govt job enforcing EPA "guidelines", applications for green energy, and power plants trying to keep your air conditioner on. I have seen an amazing amount of paper work increase in 5 years to keep a compressor station open. Our jobs are going over seas for lots of reasons, we have to start coming up with reasons to come back to the USA.
Publius -- Wind power may be intermittent at one location but that's why we have an electrical grid which can have windmills from all over the country hooked up to it. The wind is always blowing somewhere and that power goes onto the grid where it is used just like power from the Four Corners coal plant is used in Southern California. Power on the grid is never "stored," it's used as it is generated. If usage drops, generators are tuned down or taken off line.
Gas, oil and coal are finite resources. That is they will not last forever and as the supply is depleted the prices will just go up and up. And they are dirty, environment altering sources of energy to boot.
With this in mind we need to start weening ourselves off these sources of energy by exploiting new, clean sources such as wind, solar, geothermal etc. Yes, those new sources have technological challenges but that is no reason to abandon the effort. We can't just keep kicking the can down the road indefinitely.
The funniest thing about these posts is the writer actually thinks if he/she insults the opposite side just enough or uses the copy paste feature that it will sway the minds of others. In regards to the issue at hand, at this point both Obama and Romney are saying what they think will get the most votes. Natural Gas promotion is a good selling ticket cause its cleaner than coal and creates jobs. Not non existant shovel ready ones either, real good paying jobs. If either side is promoting good paying jobs Im good with that
Let me see if I have this correct...
Liberals have special interest groups that hate:
Listen, the planet is fine. It will be here long after you die. What I want you liberals to do is recognize that without affordable energy you get poverty, famine, and death.... & you get it in a hurry. So until your little fantasy of windmill powered teleportation comes true you have a choice .... either decide that the earth's temparature may (and that is a big MAYBE!!!!!) be rasied by a fraction of a degree over the next 200 years and live with it .... OR decide that starving millions/billions of people on the planet (including the poor & the children which you claim to care so much about) is the right thing to do.
Let's face it liberals are against anything that has to do with energy...including looking for a job.
Do you actually know the process for fracking??
High pressure water absolutely laden with toxic chemicals is pumped underground and then absorbs natural gas and is pumped back out and separated.
Haliburton had the chemicals declared proprietary so they wouldn't have to disclose them. (Thanks Cheney)
The used water is literally deadly for 100 years, the groundwater going into wells can be so gas laden you can light a fire from your faucet.
Watch "Gasland" and educate yourself.
Not to mention that they are pumping fresh water into the ground instead of using it to grow crops. A lesson hard learned in the Midwest when farmers tripled the price they charge the frackers for their water during the drought.
Well I have a Britta Water Filtration pitcher in my fridge...& I have a reasonably new water softener (with the rust inhibitor salt pellets)... plus I generally use a pasta strainer to catch the bigger chunks of debris (ya know... just for good measure). Sooooo..... Frack Baby Frack!
I hope hope hope a natural gas drilling company wants to drill right next to your well or water source and hydraulic fracture the veins. I want to see the stupid look on your face when you can light your water on fire.
LOL! You deserve to have a gas well fracked right next to your well. Have fun lighting your water on fire.
And we arent talking about a little bit of rust genius. We are talking about dozens of toxic chemicals.
NICE--that was perfect. Couldn't agree more. Last time I checked there were a lot of other Countries on this planet with a lot less EPA. Can the US save the whole world?? Libs make no sense.
We saw GASLAND (fracking) and THE LAST MOUNTAIN (coal) but most people dont even do the research, they just like to flap their lips. We continue to harm this planet, we will leave our children and theirs a wasteland and we be sick or die as well, as we are all connected to this planet, its sustains us, we need to take care of the only home we have. This is our planet and its time to take it back from the polluters!!
Thinker-543390
"Let's face it liberals are against anything that has to do with energy...including looking for a job."
That is simply not true, why don't you just go suck an egg?
Oh, I see if you can't say anything intelligent, just insult them, is that your thinking ?
And what we liberals want you Republicans to understand is "We do not believe your lies, even when you tell the truth we have no confindence that you won't flip flop your position 30 seconds later, like MITT did on Sunday,
DUH don't you get it
WE DON'T BELIEVE YOU!
You can't be trusted on any subject, period!
Nice-2149067
YOU POSTED the following: I have an update for you, I am a LIBERAL and a Democrat and I take issue with your assertions, see below:
Liberals have special interest groups that hate:
Just wanted to go on the record not all liberals are against everything!
We should take your word for it that the planet is fine?? We can continue to burn fossil fuels, heat the atmosphere, pollute the oceans, strip the rain forest, etc., etc., with no worries?? Sorry, a little common sense tells me that mother earth is a precious place and we should show her a little gratitude by not mucking her up. She gives us everything we need to live by providing clean air, clean water, and a fairly stable climate and the greedy, near sighted, and totally clueless (that would be people such as yourself) can't get their minds beyond their pocket book.
Affordable does not mean centrally produced and distributed for profit. It means locally produced and therefore redundant. You have the mindset that the Big Corporate producers of dirty energy are the ONLY source of energy. You can provide your own electricity with enough to feed back into the grid at low consumption times, to make a profit singularly in your home.
I do not need a special interest group, I speak my own mind.
Liberals have special interest groups that hate:
Oh, yeah, why are we still subsidizing a market that had RECORD profits the last 5 years????? Take back the Oil subsidies!!!!
Yes it is true the planet will still be here long after I am dead, the question at hand though is: will ANYONE be ALIVE or will the planet be inhabited by germs an insects only.
Global Warming is REAL, Climate Change is REAL HUMANS are Changing the enviroment is REAL all of you science denyers should learn something before uou assume you know it all.
Global warming??? What happend to climate change....quick send your money.
Climatechange is caused by global warming. And we are already sending our money to Wall Street. The battle is being waged by Wall Street against a unanimous scientific community. After all, in a pure capitalist society profits are everything. And all that they need to maintain those profits is a good propaganda machine to suck in all of those iliterates who believe every bumper sticker they read.
"It is not true that all conservative people are stupid; it is true, however, that most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill, 1806-1873
Mill was a liberal loon even for his day who would fit right in with the OWS.
Mill believed that despotism was an acceptable form of government. Lovely man.
Conservatives hate this quote because it's so true. Never in my life have I seen a low IQ knuckle-dragger who has a liberal point of view on anything.
And corporatists believe that Totalitarianism is a functional form of society, because the end point of Capitalism is a single ownership of the market, which is Totalitarianism.
Libby asbestos contamination
The W.R. Grace plant in Libby, Mont., spewed asbestos over the small town for decades, sickening more than 1,000 people and killing more than 200. Smoke from the factory coated the town in tremolite asbestos, a particularly toxic form linked to numerous diseases including mesothelioma.
Dust from the plant became part of the residents’ lives in 1919, and for years it covered lawns, dusted cars and drifted through the air. Tailings from the plant were used as fill for driveways, gardens, playgrounds and even the Libby junior high and high school tracks. Family members of mine workers were also exposed to asbestos that employees brought home on their work clothing.
Asbestos is a mineral all by itself. You can dig it up with a shovel. Science has evolved since 1919 and until the Navy coated the inside of war ships in the 1940's no one thought dirt from the ground could be so dangerous. It's like trying to fillin the Coal Mines in Rock Springs Wyoming. Not many records kept like now and no one really know where old mine shafts are and what to do to keep the town from falling in.
But we have to have jobs - and we all can't work for the EPA, they need to lay off some of the paper work and worthless monitoring and get to the real stuff that makes a difference. Like Fraking.
When greedy corporations go unchecked, you'll have a boom of places like Love Canal.
Unchecked and Policed are two different things.
So what if ppl die. We need jobs! Right?!?
WR Grace was the Owner or CEO of Bethlehem Steel that went bankrupt !! I got the huge pension of five hundred dollars a month that that horrible Union got me on retirement of 31 years wonder how much Grace got when BSCO went bankrupt
If you want to see what unregulated corporate pollution looks like, check out the air and water quality in Beijing.
And if you want to see what unregulated political pollution looks like, check out the Obama administration.
My point exactly! Good post
And if you want to see what unregulated spewing of Sh|t looks like read Thinkers posts.
You liberals make all of us sick with your constant spewing, lies, not knowing what you are talking about, and using examples that are comparing apples to oranges. You cannot compare us to China on the economy. They are communists and a population that the government does not care about or care that they live or die. If the EPA another dozens of other environmental agencies were not here, we would not have rampant pollution. None of you even understand that with today's technology, you can make a coal fired plant give off less pollution than plant's using other technology. You cannot just say that any coal fired plant would cause massive pollution. But, liberals are too narrow and closed minded to understand this.
Tennessee coal ash spill
A few hours before dawn on Dec. 22, 2008, the walls of a dam holding 1.1 billion gallons of coal ash crumbled, spilling the toxic concoction into the town of Kingston, Tenn., and creating the largest industrial spill in U.S. history. The wave of ash, leftovers from burning coal mixed with water, wiped out roads, crumpled docks and destroyed homes.
The ash had been stored at the nearby Tennessee Valley Authority coal power plant and contained a decade’s worth of arsenic, selenium, lead and radioactive materials. These metals can cause cancer, liver damage, neurological disorders and other health problems, but the EPA doesn’t classify coal ash as a hazardous material. As workers in Hazmat suits picked through the sludge, Kingston residents were told the ash didn’t present a serious health risk.
840,000 gallons of crude oil went directly into the Kalamazoo River near Marshall, Michigan in 2010. The pipeline owners, Enbridge, ignored alarms (the alarms were located in Alberta, Canada). Enbridge was cited for not following its own policies and procedures as well as being in violation of Federal regulations and paid a 3.7 million dollar fine this week. I think the amount of the fine is ridiculously low for the damage that was incurred--and it's the largest ever penalty collected for a spill of this kind.
Cough....hack.....cough......if Romney is elected.
Most of the GOP/T-Party not all don't believe in Global Warming things like that, So they want to cut everything from social, EPA, FDA etc.. They believe in profit make as much money they can, so they can buy their way to heaven to meet Jesus Christ.
Nothing proven on global warming. Time after time, global warming theorists are proven that they have lied or used statistics and data that was not collected correctly/inaccurately.
“The EPA has been very aggressive where coal has been concerned. When we look out over the next four, five years, we've identified about 45 gigawatts of coal-fired generation that will be closed.” A gigawatt is 1,000 megawatts. The largest coal-fired generating plant in the United States, in Cheshire, Ohio, has a capacity of 1,320 megawatts"
Obamas EPA wants to shut down 14% of the coal the plants with no alternative. WTF is wrong with these ignorant idiots. Go ahead and shut the coal plants down but you need alternative energy sources. Wake up Obama. This goes to his inexperience in the private sector.
I think that's the core of the problem. Obama & team want to change without having alternatives in place to keep costs down. And I think it will come down to turning off and unplugging our video game, cell phone chargers, TV's, etc. and have rolling blackouts before anyone gets it.
The alternative can be not wasting electricity.
Our scientist have the technology for decades now on how to generate energy from the wind, sun, water and yet corporations that OWN this country has us tied to unclean means that harm us all and our home: Earth. Enough with this @!$%#e!
Don't forget tidal and wave energy. That just went live in Oregon. www.oregonwave .org/
And don't let the lying RightWing tools tell you it cannot be done, Germany now produces over 50% of its electricity from Renewable sources. The most on the planet. And yeah, I am sure Germany has NO REGULATIONS. HAHAHA.
www.reuters .com/article/2012/05/26/us-climate-germany-solar-idUSBRE84P0FI20120526
www.renewableenergyworld .com/rea/news/article/2009/04/germany-the-worlds-first-major-renewable-energy-economy
As usual, Libs have not the first clue about the direct cause-effect between cheap energy and a booming economy... there have been scrubbers on coal fired plants for decades... the wind/solar energy scams just don't cut it for the amount of power we need... time for putting obama on unemployment... and reigning in the EPA to sensible limits based on sound science (because no matter what hysterics Liberals squeal, we conservatives don't want poisoned water, soil, or air either).
Does everything with you ass-holes have to revolve around a dollar bill ???
Is there anything else in life that matters to you?
The problem with your thinking is.... if your wrong... were all dead !!!
Sensible limits... what a F-ing joke !!
Yeah, GB...sensible limits. You know what...lets go the other route. Let's ban all coal and oil in the USA. Let me know where your moving to.
Right now we need to look at all our dollars, unemployment, tax revenue, etc. with 368,000 people giving up on looking for work and only 96,000 jobs created we need to look at priorities.
And as usual the Republicans don't give a crap about the planet as long as they have their money,
YOU CAN'T breathe money, or drink money, or eat money.
WE can do a lot better than MITT the Nitt witt
I am not a republican but I would like to keep my job. Obama shedding jobs like Bush.
As far as sheding jobs, you can that your Republican friends for that.
The Party of NO has spoken ! NO to Jobs, NO to fiscal responsibility, and NO to anything Obama proposes.
Only thing they say yes to is tax reductions for the rich and don't you dare think about the deficit unless a democrat is in office .
Trickle down doesn't work, just like the republicans in congress
I don't think trickle down will work but whatever Obama is doing isn't working either. He's a narcassist and needs to go back to Kindergarten, learn how to work and play well with others. I resent people who compare him to Clinton and think in 4 years he will be remember as the worst President yet. And I know you keep thinking I'm a repub - I'm am an Independent voter. All I know is this ain't working, he keeps borrowing money and we got to start paying the bill. Let the Bush tax cuts to everyone run out!!
And it would be good if we all worked together for a solution. Obama doesn't have the ___— to say "no". And both party's act like little children crying about who hit who last. We have to learn to live on less from the Feds, like it or not.
Personally, I am really hoping for the 'financial cliff'. All those folks who are so innately bonded with their money will probably spend that afternoon jumping out of buildings.
Problem solved.
If gov. didn't regulate companies, we'd be back in the days when factories let their sewage and other run-off go to the ocean or rivers. It's crazy to de-regulate !
HAHAHAH
"Libs have not the first clue about the direct cause-effect between cheap energy and a booming economy"
Oh really moron, we want to give the country free energy, and we don't see the benefit to the economy with that. HAHAHA You are an absolute A$$HOLE.
Mark440, I agree. Let's see the results of democrats unintelligence on the economy. The liberals are spending us in to another Greece. Do any of you even watch the news? Moody's is about ready to downgrade our credit, again. Why? Because of our debt and the democrats refusal to deal with the mounting debt. Do any of you realize that when interest rates start to increase, how that equates in to increased interest on the debt? A one percent increase in interest rates mean over $100 billion in just additional money needed to pay the interest on the debt. You know interest rates are going up, and probably sooner than later. You democrats do not care or have no clue.
Fed up...You are right on the mark.. Being an Unemployed Insulator and working in these Coal Fired Plants most of my life... I have received the brunt of this Administrations regulations. Power Plants are Closing affecting many of my Union Brothers and Sisters... Insulators, Boilermakers ,Carpenters, Steam Fitters, Iron Workers, Sheet Metal Workers...I can go on and on...I am a Card Carrying Democrat....But Obama has crushed the Middle Class in Pennsylvania......This President is an awful Leader bent on destroying many of our Union Jobs!!!!!! Clinton would have never allowed this!!!!!!!
Government regulation is killing American companies.
Wrong ! Republicans are destroying the country. Why is busness sitting on TRILLIONS of dollars and not investing? Because it's more important to them to make sure Obama is a "ONE TERM PRESIDENT", they would sell their souls to the devil if they could only get him out of office
“So, if President Romney took office you would not see greenhouse gas regulation of power plants.” Is America crazy ! That would mean the end of our beautiful country !
Good kill corporations.
Danno, a person that is a true liberal that cannot understand how the economy works and businesses operate. Why do they sit on the money? It is simple. Your liberals with thousands of costly rules and regulations to satisfy special interests groups. Your liberal piece of crap healthcare law that with the new regulations will cost businesses trillions in new costs. The liberal mindset of raisng taxes on corporations and the wealthy that will cost these people billions in earnings. It is truly sad that liberals cannot understand what this does to businesses. If have a thousand bucks in your pocket and the government takes half or threatens to take half, you will buy less or not buy. It is no different in thinking of a small business or corporation. obama and his dems have done nothing but tank our economy. obama has no clue and his only experience was a Chicago community organizer. And you liberals talk about a party of no? The Republican house has sent over 30 bills to the senate for votes and they all still sit on reid's desk. The senate has not passed a budget in 4 years, which is agains our laws and constitution. I still cannot wonder why reid is not sitting behind bars somewhere.
Exactly! I don't know what will happen after the election and am worried for my kids. I drive 45 miles to work, have a small farm, and fuel is just going up. Without a budget to stick to in Washington I don't dare invest in much more than a garden and meat in the freezer.
Well said, Fed Up.
@THINKER: think man, this isnt about liberal or not, black or white, man or woman, its about ALL OF US. What they want you to think is that its about this one or that one, this goes beyond parties. THis is about all of us as a race, the human race. Can you wrap your thoughts around that truth? we are all in this together!!
Sorry you are wasting your time there, because the republicans think they can get Obama out with it and to hell with the consequences.
THEY SIMPLY DON'T CARE !
If an asteroid was headed towards earth and Obama had a plan to avoid it, they would be against it. !
Does that clairify the situation, they simply don't care !
Danno, again just like other liberals. You spew words and never back them up. obama has done little or nothing to even negotiate or talk to Republicans. The HC bill was done with out talking to one Republican, not one. Do you liberals ever think why? Because they were afraid that if what was in the bill got out, that Americans would oppose the worst legislation ever passed. Again, the reason the it was voted on so quickly and against another campaign promise obama made and broke.
The problem with the environmentalists is that stopping the use of coal isn't enough. You have to eliminate NG since we are getting it in abundance from Fracking which makes your water flammable. You also have to eliminate nuclear because of what happened in Japan and Chernobyl. You can't set up too many wind farms because endangered birds are getting turned into smoothies by them. You can't set up solar farms in the desert because endangered toad and tortoise habitats will be compromised.
I have a large solar array on the top of my house because I can afford it and I took our POTUS at his word when he said that under his plan "electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket". I have tried to be conscious of recycling and living in a reasonably sustainable way. That being said I am done with these nut cases from the sierra club and other crazies that have no intention of stopping until we live in huts like the Taliban. As far as I am concerned their position is that the Human race is the biggest threat to Mother Earth and if they really feel that way they can start the process of reducing the human population on this planet with themselves.
bravo..well said.
Hey cal - you forgot the part where the environmentalists are taking the food right out of the mouth of your poor, innocent little children. You are being as radical as they are.
Did you ever think they have to go to such extremes to counter the extremes on the other side?? Both sides tout their lies and propaganda as the indisputable truth - and we all know its not. There will be compromises and there will be agreements - and just like for the last couple million years - life will carry on.
That said - you are 100% correct that humans ARE the greatest threat to Mother Earth. We know destruction all too well.
Calrealist - Oh, I think Mother Nature is perfectly capable of taking care of you and all those that think like you. Unfortunately, my grandchildren and their children will pay for your stupidity - We already hit the tipping point, so burn your coal, frack your gas, fire up the nukes cuz Mother Nature already has you in her NRA approved cross-hairs. You might die happy but your kids won't.
There is such a thing as VERTICAL windmills tinyurl .com/8rt2r9j which do not hurt the birdies and are more efficient. So, take a chill pill. The ultimate plan of renewable energy is around the corner. Its just that on the corner are a bunch of mafia corporate scumbags who say humanity has to pay them for its energy, for its water, for its clean air. And the Progressives say FVCK YOU corporate America.