ed,

Thank you for your cynicism, I share your sentiments. $120Trillion of unfunded liabilities and $16 Trillion national debt. Our debt per person is worse than Greece. What will happen is the world will dump the dollar and we will be left with a pile of toilet paper for money. Just like 1930's Germany where hyperinflation occurred and a loaf of bread required a wheelbarrow full of money. This will happen if we don't get things under control. You have been sold out by the politicians and corporate elite. Our Democratic Republic as you once knew it is now gone.

Let's hope your sign "alpha" truly means the beginning for a new USA.

TopDrum,

Your the first one to say something about that. Yes, it is a play on "A Brave New World", which our society has sadly paralleled.

I'm with you!

Folks, turn off NBC, CBS, ABC, and CNN.

They have turned you cynical.

I tuned in to NBC, and what they are doing is talking about Democrat conventions mainly,

So I wemt to Fox to find out they had broken away while African Americans Saratoga Springs Mayor Mia Love was addressing the convetion. I wished I had heard the whole speech, she was an very good speaker.

NBC and it's dedicated followers are simply trying to maintain the "Republicans are racists image they and the democratic party have promoted for years.

Mia Love spoke very eloquent and with passion. I was most impressed!!

I thought so to, for what little I heard.

The saddest thing about the two class system we are entering; many people have been fooled into believing they belong to the ruling class. Most of these poor saps will find out they are part of the peasant class when the two class system is fully entrenched. By then, it will be too late to do anything about it.

Wireman

You nailed it. But you don't say who wants the two class system.

I think figuring it out means researching when the middle class grows and when it shrinks.

Question. Is the middle class growing today, or is it shrinking?

Puppet, I had to put Backstabbing and several others on ignore because I couldn't stand their all-caps, all-bold, shouting, anti-American rants anymore. They were not contributing to any discussion, just depressing everyone who wanted some serious discourse on the issues.

DB, I understand your sentiments and respect you desire to watch Fox. So what are you doing here? I really don't understand it. You hate NBC, but you are on their site commenting. It doesn't make any sense to me, unless I am missing something???

ED711353--I agree. Reading these comment threads over the past weeks have been so unpleasant. They bring the most ugly spirits to the table when all along, the election of our president is so meaningless. It really doesn't matter who is in office, Republican or Demorcrat, because the president does not run the office. Oh, he may make a gallant attempt at his beliefs or proposals and, if he's lucky, a couple might make it. Corporations and the military industrial complex run this country. Yet, here in these threads, people are saying mean, terrible things to each other and accusing both sides of awful things. The President of the United States holds an office about as ineffective as the Queen of England; all very lovely but all very powerless. Ever since Nixon and Watergate, I've learned a lot.

Trash- make a point and maybe people will listen to you...

I for one would like to see a new party born of pragmatism- and some of what Chris Christie was talking about- a new age of American exceptionalism- because when America is good- its great.

To criticize and demonize those on Welfare or Unemployment at a time when you are the party that is at the root of our jobless environment is about the largest and most unforgivable fallacy we've ever heard.

If you want to criticize those "on the dole" either wait until the economy is strong or aim at the top... but right now you're just being self-centered and hypocritical.

America will never be exceptional as long as mediocrity is emphasized in our institutions of learning. As long as standards are lowered to accommodate students and make them feel good, we are failures. In other words, until we rid our country of the blight that is called liberalism and more specifically progressiveism we will always be in bondage.

Skip52, odd, you talk about mediocrity in our institutions of learning, yet the Party you obviously are aligned with (the obstructionists) sees fit to cut funding for education, and then turn around and provide more unnecessary subsidies for big oil. Wow, that's going to solve the problem, isn't it!! Again, the GOP doesn't want a well-educated population, because when people are educated and know the facts, the GOP loses.

Here is Barack Obama's Main Accomplishments

Barack Obama's Main Accomplishments:

Signed the National Defence Authorization Act (NDAA) Bill into Law allowing any US citizen to Be Detained WITHOUT trial (A federal Court Blocked it in May because it Violates the Constitution, but Obama is not trying to get it UNBLOCKED!).

He has Killed HUNDREDS of Innocent people (Including 3 American Citizens) in Pakistan and Yemen with Drone Strikes (He’s Ordered even more drone strikes than Bush!).

The rate of National Debt under George Bush was Around $60 Billion a Month. Under Obama, it’s been $190 Billion a Month, so that would be Nearly $600 Per US Citizen (Thanks Obama!).

Obama Care: Page 22. MANDATES, The Government will Audit Book of ALL Employers who Self Insure. Page 50, Section 152, Health Care WILL be Provided to ALL Non US Citizens, Illegal or otherwise. Page 126, Lines 22-25, Employers Must Pay for Their Part time Employees Health Care AND Their Families. Page 127, Lines 1-16, The Government WILL Tell you How much Money you can Make.

Obama has By-passed Congress to Enable the DREAM Act (Unconstitutional to By-Pass Congress, and the Illegals he allowed to become Legal Citizens has Committed over 19 Murders and Over 142 Sex crimes).

Obama Claims he Campaigned in 57 States (Maybe he wasn’t Born in this Country?).

Black CNN camera operator allegedly pelted with peanuts, told ‘this is how we feed animals’ at RNC

by Joy-Ann Reid | August 29, 2012 at 9:45 AM

No wonder the polls show that Mitt Romney is slated to get ZERO percent of the minority vote, and the non-stop Republican hate-speech machine only further alienates not only blacks, but all minorities and immigrants from all over the world.

Some folks think that exposing their deep racist roots helps Republicans, but I don't really think so.

Right F6Zman?

Obama/Biden 2012

I am always amazed at the liberal/democrat hypocrites on in this forum. They claim the Tea Party/Republicans/conservatives are haters and fear mongers. So read the hateful bigoted posts by the good democrats who go by "Trashy Redneck for Romney" and "Backstabbing Tea Party (although I suspect it is the same person) - this is the group that calls themselves compassionate and open minded.

Talk about fear mongering, these same people lump everyone that oppose them as "racists", "bigots", and woman haters, out to kill the elderly, etc. Soooo, that is not fear mongering or spewing hatred? So all those, woman, and people of color at the republican convention are all woman haters, and bigots, ay?

Well I guess when your guy has gutted the economy and has sat at the knee of Marxists as a child and gone to a church that spews hatred for America and whites, than I guess the only argument you have left is to name call like little children.

TO: Just Shaking My Head who wrote:

"I am always amazed at the liberal/democrat hypocrites on in this forum. They claim the Tea Party/Republicans/conservatives are haters and fear mongers..."

They are. Just look at the past 3-1/2 years.

Republicans have added absolutely NOTHING to the betterment or wellbeing of the United States Economy other than Republicans' "starve the poor and the elderly and let's take their Social Security Retirement money while we can" strategy, and everyone agrees it was the Republicans who so completely and totally crashed the entire United States Economy.

To the contrary, we have heard nothing from Republicans for the past 3-1/2 EXCEPT and never-ending barrage of hate-speech!

Why shouldn't people think of Republicanas as "racists", "bigots", and woman haters, out to kill the elderly, etc." when that's all we've heard from Republicans, non-stop for 3-1/2 consecutive years?

Furthermore, I don't believe for one minute that giving more and more tax cuts to the rich is a solution for ANYTHING, but it's more like packing their freezers with red meat and waiting for the storm to blow over.

Republicans know how deep in Economic trouble this country is in because Republicans brought us here.

Now Republicans want to continue to line their pockets with cash because the only "solution" they can think of is to "ride it out"!

Obama/Biden 2012

They weren't throwing peanuts at her because she was black.... the peanuts were at CNN

The liberals will always say, "It doesn't matter who's in office" every time... trying to get you to think that same way they think... but it DOES MATTER.... integrity matters.... character matters..... leadership matters....

And "hate speech"... listen to ANY liberal for very long... then take their words & swap the words BLACK for WHITE.... TEABA**ER with NI**ER.... then re-read what they just said again..... Then ask yourself.... why is it that only if the words are swapped it's racist?

American Girl, where are you getting your information? Nobody wants to take away social security, the TRUTH is that unless there are some changes made i.e. we do something different that what the norm has been than NOBODY will get Social Security or Medicare. From what I have read and heard the Republicans want to FIX both so that not only will the current elderly get the care they need but future generations will as well. What Obama has done is TAKE 716,000,000,000.00, that is 716 BILLION OUT of Medicare. He has plans on gutting it to impliment his socialist health care plan.

As far as "everybody agrees it was the Republicans who so sompletely crashed the ...economy.", that is not true either. First of all they did play a part I will agree, but the democrats where and ARE today as much to blame. The Bush tax cuts DID increase jobs between 2002 and 2008, by 5,979,000 new employed (look it up in Fact Check). It was the housing crash that caused the major crisis we are in today, NOT taxes.

BOTH parties were culpable in this situation. However, experts from the Bush administration as well as private banking experts WARNED Congress about the excesses of the sub-prime loans. In a congressional hearing back in 2003 Barney Frank dismissed these concerns claiming that there was no problem with Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac. and several Republican Congressmen went along with him.

As for hate speech, maybe you should read some of the liberal posts, I have never seen such hatred and predjuditial language in my life. I am not a Republican, I'm an independent, but I am a person of color, Amer-Indian, and I'm a conservative. I have been reading the posts in this forum for the last few month's and the hatred and venom I read on here is coming mostly from Democrats.

Republicans are NOT racists, or bigots, or woman and elderly haters, American Girl. They are in fact, black, white, yellow, red, male and female as well as being young and elderly. They may disagree with your point of view, but to callously bash them with hateful terms like, racist and bigot is frankly one of the most prejudicial accusations one can make about any group of people, especually without REAL proof.

I don't agree with all of the Republican platform, nor do I disagree with all the Democrat platform but being an independent voter I try to make my decision based on character and substance of issues, not idle talking points, and phrases coming from the media and some party think tank.

If you and the other Democrats REALLY had an open mind, which I am beginning to see as not the case, then you would at least listen and research the facts. And believe me the Democrat politicians are as guilty (if not more so lately) of lies and subterfuge than the Republicans.

The cynicism in the opening post is the result of changing from a New Deal economy to a Trickle-Down economy. Obama can talk till he's blue in the face about building an economy 'from the middle out', but he doesn't have a lot of options with the only economic allies of the middle class - the labor unions - down to 7% in the private sector. And Romney's business was the epitome of the middle class destruction that Reagan unleashed when he undercut our only real negotiators. Bain's work in 'saving' companies was akin to stabbing the patient in the heart to cure him of cancer - with of course, a large payoff to the doctor.

The welfare state was created when republicans attacked the middle class under the banner of 'free market' economics, ultimately sending us into the ranks of the working poor who can't survive without assistance. Now, of course, even though we are working harder than ever at our ever more low-paying jobs, they spend their time gleefully attacking us for being poor. The democrats seem to care that we can't make ends meet - and to this end want to maintain assistance for the formerly self-sufficient - but also seem at a loss as to how to bring about a recovery of the middle class (since they don't seem to want to support labor).

The choice is between repubs, who are actively trying to wipe us out, and dems, who don't have enough balls to support us. Ergo, cynicism. I will of course support the dems, since they are not actually trying to wipe us out, but I agree with Ed that the big question now is how much farther up our butts our new plutocratic ruling class will shove the poker.

Repubs knew how Government worked under Bush. Dick Cheney told Bush what to say and when to say it and the Repub congress fell right in line.

Repubs also know that this Repub congress wants our president and country to fail. They were not shy about saying this publicly. To that end, it is amazing what our president has accomplished given the fact that congress has fought him on every issue at great peril to the USA and her people. We cannot give in to the thugs in congress who continue to abuse their power to push their own agenda$$$$$$.

How are we going to correct this? It is up to us, the younger generation, to learn from the selfish failures of those before us.

The younger people in this country have more at stake and you folks must throw out your differences, right..wrong..or indifferent and commit to a common cause for survival. It is time NOW to stand for unity and work harder than ever before. You would want your children to live a life with a dream. Please make it happen, otherwise, this country will be lost forever.

Wake up

I come from a generation where mom and dad bought everything for them, even their big toys. Today, we have a government that acts like the mom's and dad's gives them everything.

What my kids are learning is that if you don't work, you get all the help you need to survive. If you work hard, you are paying for those that don't work.

Which road do you think they will take?

We have a generation (or two) of citizens that do not understand the concept of personal responsibility and hard work.

We have got to get the candystore politicians out of office. I'm not real convinced the republicans will do it, but at least it's supposed to be a step in the right direction.

Wake up now!

"We have a generation (or two) of citizens that do not understand the concept of personal responsibility and hard work." Well, I'm from that generation that got a college education and worked hard. At 56, I found myself out of work and so far have been unable to find further work. I'm now pushing 58. Let me tell you, if you're older, it's hard to find employment because, like it or not, age discrimination exists. All an employer has to do is look at your educational history - in my case the year I got my college degree pretty much gives them an idea of my age. Too young to get SS, too old to find a job (and don't even try saying to go to McDonald's if I have to...I'd be turned away as overqualified). But if I asked for help from the government, the "personal responsibility and hard work" crowd would be pointing at me as a leech on society.

John B,

I can be empathetic to your situation and I am not calling you a leach. How did we get in the situation where people can retire at 50 and then collect retirement for another 25 to 30 years? Do you understand the concept of $120 Trillion? I did not create this debt, my generation did not make these promises, yet we are charged with paying for them.

Except for the rich, who can retire at 50 in this country. If you have a private pension and you can retire at 50 and collect for 25-30 years, why not, it is not a government pension. Unless you are talking about Congress. Then I agree.

Yes we need to cut back on spending. 100% agree. But, not on the backs of the middle class and the poor. The gentleman above worked all of his working life, except the last few where he cannot get a job.

We need to bring the jobs back to the United States. We were good workers and we worked hard for the Corporation/Business we were at. The companies used to be loyal to their employees and visa versa. But, not at minimum wage unless, of course, all items bought were to be reduced to the same %.

We do need to cut spending but not with the EPA what is wrong with clean water and air. Would you want to eat the fish that were in the water a few decades ago. Nobody did, except maybe in the very high country. Why all the focus with the woman's body. Lordy, do we need more children to burden the system, not to mention the loving arms they will never feel. Seems to me that children need to be born, grow up and fight with the war machine.

Education is something I feel need to go forward, maybe revamped, but not in any circumstances cut.

What good is it to have a balanced budget if the people of the United States cannot get health care, will not have clean air and water and are unable to go to college.

It's simple

Taxes haven't been cut since 2002. What has been done when the law expired is to keep taxes right where they are since that time. Why? Because the CBO shows that removing all tax cuts would result in a tax increase on business of up to 40%. The CBO believes this will cost 3 million jobs.

The CBO goes further and shows that if you allow the tax cuts on the top 1% to expire you will gain 60 - 80 billion in Revenue, but you will lose over 700,000 jobs. Do you have any clue as to how much revenue would be lost on 700,000 jobs?

It's that SIMPLE.

Db, you are the siimpleton. Why do you ignore everything that has happened in the last five to seven years? The taxs on the rich are lower than they have ever been since before there were income taxes!!!They were much higher under Clinton and nobody bitched then. Taxes on the middle class, which should be being paid by the richest, are the problem!!!And don't get off on that silly argument that it's all the fault of people on welfare. Welfare, food stamps all that crap is a mere drop in the bucket compared to the bloated military we have which is bigger than any other nation in the world, to our current two wars running at a defict of trilions for 10 years now!!!the unfunded drug prescription plan Bush passed just to make the drug companies happy and what-all. I get sick and nauseous when all else fails some Tea Party wannabe reverts to the whining, "oh, we just have to respect work, work hard it will all be all right." That's not the formula that works anymore since wages have been stagnant for 30 yeares, thanks to the stinking rich and their party hacks starting with Reagan, continuing thru the Bushes and ably aided and abetted by Karl Rove and Grover Norquist, the machiavellis that make the under-educated simpletoons think they too will prosper when the party of the richest 1 percent is in power. The Republican Party has left everyone behind except for the richest 1 percent. The truth hurts and there will be no intelligent voting inAmerica until the wannabe rich people, the fools who still believe Romney or any of the other elitsist s give a damn about the m iddle class or working class or anyoone esle except their kind, wake up and realize not to elect these people who will drive the final nail into America's coffing. The enemy is not Obama the enemy is greed and heartless traitors who would rather see their enemy fail than to see their country succeed. The Nazis of the 21st century are in the Republican Party and are leading it.

Lil Debbie,

Good night. Sweet dreams!

Yeah, I realize I must be your biggest nightmare. Someone who as actually chased down what is happening instead of accepting the utopian dreams that you have fallen for.

If the economy is so bad, why has the Dow doubled? Not up 10% since DOUBLED. That means a LOT of Corporations are making a LOT OF MONEY.

Guess what? That's not corporations making a lot of money, that's your retirement plan, whether it be a pension plan or a 401-k, that is making a lot of money. You people don't seem to understand that you won't have a retirement unless your employer makes money, keeps you employed, and keeps making contributions to whichever plan you have.

But it seems that all people can do is vilify profit, hard work, saving, etc. and demand that Uncle Sugar give bigger and bigger handouts year after year. Eventually the money runs out!!!!!! Several of the EU countries have finally found out that when you run out of other people's money, the gravy train comes to a crashing, jolting, instant halt!!!!!

You know "sane"....your wishing it to be so doesn't make it "fact" or "truth". You're correct that some regulations are beyond ridiculous, then completely discredit your point by blaming Democrats and refusing to accept any culpability in the Republican party. I am placing you on IGNORE as your posts are inane and your opinions worthless.

JT

In 2003, the Bank Regulators came before the House and Senate concerned because they saw loans made and going elsewhere. They had no authority to follow up to see what was really going on. It was the Democrats who lead the charge against the regulators to shut them up.

Yes, there were some Republicans who joined the democrats.

Republicans only had weak majorities in the house and senate. What you will find is that less than 25 republicans in the house needed to defect and that did happen. in the Senate 12 Republicans joined the democrats in late 1996 to defeat a bill that could have exposed the securities fraud that was taking place.

Most of those Republicans have been kicked out of the Senate. Richard Lugar got dumped in the 2012 primaries. Olympia Snow is retiring, leaving Susan Collins and one other still in the Senate.

You idiot. How about giving some crdit to what "your taxes" and those of other Americans have done for businesses and every one in America. Infrastructure, that means superhighways, railroads, airports, water systems, utility systems, those are the things that enable people to get rich in America by being able to manufacture or even provide service jobs.Youdidn't do it yourself, wise guy. Where would you be if someone else hadn't paid for your highways, your police, your water and sewer stystem, your clean air, your power grid? You and your sainted "businesses" didn't do it. the government did it and the biggest beneficiaries are, you guessed it, business and corporations right here in the good old USofA. The taxpayers of American, those who are paying the biggest proportion of their iuncomes for taxes, are tired of subssidizing corporate welfare and paying for infrastructure that enables the rich to get richer while the middle class and working poor get poorer and poorer...can't even afford medical insurance or their mortgages while the Lords of Congress that live off the bribes of the corporations, eetc. have better medical insurance and health care at taxpayers'expense than we the people have. And forget medicare. Congress no matter whether it's one dirtbag serving only one two-year term, gets outrageous perks and burdensome insurance that is superior to the ordinary American. How is that fair? You Congressmen should also have to pqy in to the Social Security system that would go a long way toward equalizing the landscape among retirees and stop you people from stealing out of th Social Security fund to privatize it and give it to Wall Street buddies to play the stock market with and lose it.

lil Debbie

A dumb Dufus can get a minimum of 6 - 7% gain in the market in our 401k system. The fed is investing your money in itself for 1.5% interest or less right now. Inflation is between 2 - 3%. Worse yet, the government doesn't make money, it has to raise taxes. What did the government do, it borrowed the funds with a big I.O U. Yeah, the government can still pay you something by printing money, but that makes the money you receive worth less. If a company did what the government was doing, they would be in jail for embezzlement and counterfieting!

If you actually have a 401K, you have an advisor who choses funds because of their safe returns. Why would those funds be a safe return? That advisor only gets a very small share of your gain each year in payment for the service. What Repbulicans want to do is allow you to put some into that system. What will happen is that because you have so much more money from that little bit, you will not even need the rest that is taken from you to pay for those who are trapped in the system.

This very system thought up by those in the US was taken and used by about 19 countries. None of those countries have had their system go bankrupt. In every country, their seniors retire with an income 2 - 3 times greater than what our seniors do in comparison to their working days.

You have been sorely misinformed with twisted facts. You should be angry at those who spread the falsehoods, not those that are actually trying to help you retire quite comfortably.

Tony, yours are the kind of statements that will lose the election for your party. Good people are really getting sick of hearing the anti-right racist squealings of Democratic operatives. Democrats, the self described accepting, tolerant and all inclusive party, that is, until a minority supports a Republican. Then, as you have done, the true colors are revealed. "sho nuff, yessir boss" REALLY!? Anybody who switches party to the left has "seen the light" but if they switch to the right they're a sellout and a (insert vile racist term here). You are despicable sir!

Why did your beloved NBC refuse to air the speeches of the two black RNC speakers and let viewers decide what they think?? It's because at the same time all of NBC's lillywhite commentators are screaming racism they are its greatest practitioners.

Chained to the desk

GM has not fully bounced back. Although they did show a record profit, most of the profit was a suprise from the Opel division in Europe. A lot of the rest was due to them delaying several billion of expenditures that are necessary for them to develop new products and keep up with modernization of facilites.

Minutae, minutae, DB in Akron. LCan't stand to agree \one little smidgen on anything that Obama may have had a hand in. You and peole like you are the ruin of America. Rather see your hate result in the faillure of your enemy (Obama) and you don'tmind seeing America fail as long as you get your revenge on him for daring to be a black in the White House. Go stuff yourself into a gas oven.

Lil debbie

You are totally confused. Disagreeing with someone is not hate. I have no problem with Herman Cain being President. If JC Watts had stayed in pollitics, I'd have been behind him too! I have not problem with Condelezza Rice, what she did as Secretary of State was one of the finest efforts I've seen of any secretary of state in recent history. She had absolutely no Gaffes, no mistakes to be covered for. I think Hillary is by far the best of all people in the Obama administration. She may be smarter than Bill.

I believe and have lived a life of judging a man on the content of his character, the results of his policies, not the color of his skin!

What counts is performance!

Obama doesn't need republicans to do anything to him. Actually the reality is they don't have the means to do anything to him other than question his policies and get him to moderate. His policies and how he handles himself is what is doing him in.

Look closely at the democratic party. Under Kennedy it was "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

Today it is, get your government to wring money out of people we think are rich, because we think they have cheated.

OR you are helpless, let the government make all your decisions for your.

What a sad commentary on what used to be a great American Party!

Chained

I think you should maybe check your facts. Since GM's reorganization, they have shred about 30,000 employees, closed 2500 Dealerships & 14 U.S. plants. And they are in trouble again.

Business is essential for America to succeed. The failure of business's helps America fail. You must have education to be successful in business. Your chances of making it are slim to none without education.

Don't let some politician tell you it was not your fault if your business fails. Remember, your competition has to follow all the rules and regulations you do. If he doesn't, he is a crook. Most crooks eventually get caught. This happens when they piss off the wrong person.

Wiremen:

Wrong, white collar crime pays, and pays very good. Generally speaking the crooks, if they have any gray matter commit crimes where there are no real penalties except maybe paying back 10 cents on the dollar.

Happens all the time, besides that normally the cops on the beat have bigger fish to fry and are conitinully losing resources throuogh budget cuts.

Ask yourself who is responsible for lobbing to cut budgets, and who does the cutting, may tell you where this country is headed.

ed, I had small business's in mind. Thinking about my own friends and acquaintances. Your points on white collar crime are well taken. Cheers

Barry

from 2002 - 2007 The Bush tax cut allowed the creation of 6 million net jobs. The jobs went away with the housing collapse. The housing collapse was not a result of tax cuts. The collapse was the results of government attempting social engineering with the home mortgage market. Both parties participated in this catastrophe.

Although it is honorable to want people to have their own home, you cannot put them into a position to fail. What government did was make banks give low interest loans, to people who had no credit history, a suspicious credit history, and too low of income.

What this did was create an excessive demand for new homes. Demand increases the price when it exceeds what is available. This increased demand cause home values to rise rapidly and above a realistic level. When those people who should not have been given loans failed to be able to pay, foreclosures occured at record rates causing a glut of homes on the market.

Well, when a glut occurs the value falls. When the value falls the banks become over extended to the point of insolvency. Once the banks became insolvent, they had to stop lending, by increasing rates on credit cards (you can borrow, but it will cost you dearly, because I really don't want you to borrow what I promised that you can borrow).

I don't have a huge problem with cutting taxes, because as I showed in other posts, cutting taxes can increase jobs and increasing taxes WILL cost jobs per the CBO. Any tax cuts MUST also come with spending cuts because we cannot borrow much more without collapsing our economy worse.

I will tell you that I'm not certain a tax cut will help in some respects, because the real enemy of business is over regulation. Regulation is money you spend that does not improve the quality of a product, but increases the cost and usualy also the price of the product. We live in a capitalistic world. He who can produce an equivilent product for less will get the bigger share of the market and prosper the most, provide he gets enough money from sales to be profitable.

So DB, am I to believe your explanation to the housing bust was that the government (federal) made those banks do it? I believe this "theory" has been debunked over and over again. It is a Republican talking point, not a serious analysis.

Why are you on NBC's site when you hate them so much?

DB's comments fail fact check but he just keeps on repeating, repeating, repeating. That is the GOP method, repeat, repeat, repeat and with out fact checking, some people begin to believe.

Sandy, I suggest you do a fact check. I just Fact Checked DB and he is right on the mark. The actual job increase after the Bush tax cuts was 5,949,000, between the years 2001 - 2008.

Not only did I fact check that, I decided to see all those tax cuts that all you liberals claim were ONLY for the rich. Again this is from FactCheck. Just so you know this was in response to the LIES of the Democrats who were repeating and repeating and repeating back in 2004. Howard Dean claimed that Bush's tax cut only gave the middle class no more than $100.00.

It appears to me, as I have noticed all my life, usually the ones pointing the finger making claims - i.e. the repeating a lie over and over again - are usually the ones guilty of that claim themselves.

Actually, according to a nonpartisan analysis by the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, nearly 75% of all families are getting a tax cut this year from the two tax bills signed into law by President Bush in 2001 and 2002. The amounts vary widely, but the average is $1,217 – a dozen times more than Dean suggested.

Even families making only $20,000 to $30,000 a year are getting an average cut this year of $638. And 98.4% of that group -- "middle-class" by almost anybody's standards -- are getting some tax reduction, exactly contrary to what Dean said. And the amount of money is significant -- it increases their after-tax income an average of 2.7 percent above what it would have been before the Bush tax cuts.

And for those farther up in the middle-class hierarchy -- making $75,000 to $100,000 a year -- the Bush tax cuts are worth an average of $2,543 this year -- 25 times more than the $100 figure Dean suggested. More than 20 million American families earn $75,000 a year or more, and will be getting tax cuts in the thousands of dollars this year, not the the hundreds.

Generally, the only ones who get NO cut are those making less than $10,000 a year -- and few would think of them as middle-class. They’re the ones who earn too little to pay federal income tax in the first place, mostly singles and elderly retirees. Only 7 percent of them get a tax cut.

While it is all well and good to fact check and come up with all the benefits of tax cuts, the true measure would be how many of the middle class ended up with over $1000 in their pockets more than before. I didn't. I was a teacher and my tax cut was around $300. It's a good thing I didn't drink and smoke because I'd not be able to afford both on that.

Dear Mr. Shaking My Head, You forget that all these jobs you talk about were related to the overblown, sucked us in housing bubble that Bush's and Greenspan sorta said "stop but not really" and all the too big to fails started collapsing. You build a bubble and quote all the employment you want, it eventually bursts and it did. Now. Add outsourcing and two lengthy and expensive "wars" to this scenario and what do you get?

A BIG FAT BUST! Quote FAct Check all you want, but those wheels were coming to a big huge halt on big borrowed time. We're lucky to be where we are after 3.5 years, but the Fiscal Cliff may yet come and it will come hard. Hope you're happy under Romney because he will make sure of it...as long as his horses are fed...who the hell really cares?

In my heart I'm afraid you are right. Fascisim is already here.

Anyone who hasn't made up his mind that nobody can trust Romney hasn't been paying attention. Romney has abundantly demonstrated that no body can trust this empty core of a man....his family????Who knows? Maybe they jsut like to suffer.

But why should the rest of us suffer from this inflated mediocrity who wouldn't be wealthy as he is without the big head start he got from dear old Dad.Defeat Romney and Ryan. Their slogan is "Medicare for none."

Debbie ..turn on the tv and at least watch Ann Romney...how do you make a judgement on talking points?

"Trust me, says Romney! How about showing us your taxes to let us judge if we can trust you!"

Why are his taxes relevant? If he didn't pay his taxes, it's on the IRS enforcement agents. Do you think wealthy people should pay more in taxes? Talk to your Senators and Congressmen. He'd be a fool to pay more than he owes. He makes donations to his church, not to his government.

Not one Republican speaker has stood up and congratulated Obama for getting us out of the debacle Republican inattention got us into under George Bush.

You people must be on crack...you all blame Congress for Obama's ineffectiveness as a president. If a GOP-controlled House is powerful enough by itself to "obstruct" Obama, how can you argue that it was all "Bush's fault" in 2008 knowing that during the last 2 yrs of the Bush admin, Democrats controlled BOTH houses of Congress?

Hey Jack - why are you so unwilling to trust Romney over tax records but are so willing to trust Obama who refused for 2 yrs to release his birth certificate and diffuse that conspiracy (and, no, I'm not a birther), refused to release his college transcripts, refused to release college applications, and claimed executive privilege just to protect a morally bankrupt atty general? Seems abit like a double-standard to me!!!!

for Joe Wilson- your comment about the last two years of Bush Presidency dems controlled both houses by that time the runaway train had 6 years of gaining momentum and all was lost- the fiscally conscious party cut taxes promoted two wars and initiated a costly prescription drugs plan all on borrowed dollars- they also rolled back and fought and legislation that would have reined in the banking industry

odb2...6 years .....6years...And you think we are better off? 6 Years and you want to fire the Minority????? Really???????

I think for people like you ...we need to change the Constitution...Have a One party system so the President can have a Super Majority all the time....

ahhh...they call that a Dictatorship.....

All Obama has gotten us out of is the frying pan and into the fire.

OH boy more garbage without doing any research. Lil Debbie, you really need to do fact check more often. The TRUTH is Mitt Romeny turned away his inheritence and struck out on his own. I am not a Romney fan, nor am I voting for him, but come on people how about talking the issues rather than following the party talking points of using lies to bash the opponent. And please stop with the LIE that they want to get rid of Medicare - they want to fix it, unlike Obama that based on his heathcare plan he wants to take 716,000,000 billion dollars OUT of Medicare what the hell do think that will do?

hummingbird --using names such as "Robme"and" Ruin" for candidates and phrases such as "clown and side show" is really intelligent isn't it? This president made many promises about what hie was going to do for the economy and he has admitted he has not got the job done even though he told us it would only take one year and if he did not accomplish this he should be a one term President. But he did not do this even with control of both houses and true to form he is running again instead of dropping out like he said he should do. And lastly, what the hell do you think you would find if Romney released more tax returns? That he made a lot money? That he has investments offshore? Well I have a news flash for you. EVERYONE seems to already know this. Do you hear Angels for Obama?

Ahhhh, but the President didn't know that while he was being sworn in, the Republican leaders were meeting and swearing to not let him win or get credit for anything. (I don't believe that has ever happened before.) I don't understand how people can blame the President's "failed policies" when Congress has said No to everything. He didn't even get the chance to try his ideas...Congress just said no. The few good things he has accomplished were accomplished by executive privilege. The few good things resulted with no help from Congress. You want to blame someone, blame Congress, but you have no grounds to blame the President on his "failed policies." One more thing, this recession did start under the Bush administration. You cannot argue that. It took us 10 years to get out of the great depression with Congress and the President working together, but you expect President Obama to get us out of the "great recession" in 3 years with absolutely no help. As far as Romney's tax returns, it they show large amounts of money in offshore accounts, that proves he is not paying his share or investing in America. If he is not investing in America, I don't want him as my president. Pretty simple.

What do you expect for a network rooting for a hurricane?

you will discover that the truth will never be found on any liberal medium because the truth will set men free from the bondage and slavery of liberalism and besides a lie is much easier for liberals to proclaim than is the truth because their entire doctrine is based upon lies such as the racist matthews.