So Dan, they don't exist? Really? If they don't exist, than the one my daughter worked with in construction, whom I met, lied about being an illegal? And the fake ID he showed us(which he told us was fake)was all real? Sorry Dan, you can believe everything your party tells you if you want, but that doesn't mean it's all true.

Why do so many people have the common sense of a brick bat?

You don't have a clue! After reviewing the 2008 elections, there was a total of 9 people NATIONWIDE who attempted to vote illegally. This was a law passed to solve a problem that doesn't exist! A pure attempt by the Republican legislature and governor to disenfranchise the poor, who largely vote Democratic. Even the governor, after signing the law, stated that PA would now vote for Mitt Romney!

Correct canttelluwho, kind of like them sending in false tax papers and collecting billions of dollars nation wide, just ask the Justice Department about the IRS being investigated for allowing them to do it.

Everyone knows that ILLEGALS exist you moron. Dah.

Only In America,

I'm sure you have proper id. But pretend you do not, and figure out a way to get one without a car and without spending any money and without lossing anytime from work.

I realize you could probably care less, but that does not negate the fact that it will be a financial burden on some folks who are less well-off than you.

And the law does not do anything about 99% of actual fraudulent vote counting.

Denver Bill, so you feel that the Republicans have no responsibility to "define the scope of the problem" for the law which they propose to fix that unscoped problem.

The proposers of the law have defined the scope of the law in PA. Namely, they no of no occurance of voting-as-someone-else in PA or anywhere in the country and that they do not believe it will reduce any fraud. They just want the Id requirement for general purposes.

Oh, Dan...a bit naive , arent we ?

Those ppl DO exists and are ferried to voter precincts by the Democrats; minorities, especially Latino, are their power base.

Read up on it - get educated, will you ?

Link for that baseless assertion please.

The National Republican Lawyers Association could not find a single case of voter fraud in PA, so if illegal aliens really are voting there, I'm sure you can find some proof of it...

The best way to bypass this is changing your voter card to the Republican party, then voting Democrat, it works fine, they think you are a Republican and they let you vote.

To everyone who thinks this is meant to exclude the poor from voting... Do you know how "hard" it is to get an ID card in this state? I'll demonstrate:

"Do you have $5 for the ID card?" - Yes.

"Do you have a birth certificate?" - Yes.

"Do you have a Social Security card?" - Yes.

"Is this your current name and address?" - Yes.

"Please stand in front of the camera." *click*

"Your card will be ready in 10 minutes."

DONE.

Voter ID is the second pillar to modernize our electoral system recommended by the bi-partisan Carter-Baker Commission on Federal Election Reform, co-chaired by former U.S. President Jimmy Carter .

johnr123:

Simply copy whatever they do to vote without a car or losing time from work. Somehow getting to the polls and voting doesn't seem to difficult but getting an id is?

By law, businesses are required to allow employees time to vote. But they do not have to give time off to get an I.D.

Only in America:

And the fake ID he showed us(which he told us was fake)was all real?

If he has a fake I.D., how will this law stop him from voting? You are actually making our point for us.

Oh let's see hambone, gee, maybe when they see it is not him in the picture, but in reality, is his cousin, who doesn't even come close to looking like him! You really think, that just because he has an ID, that will get him through it, like they can't see the picture on it? Making a point for you? Do everyone a favor, get over your egos and brick bat mentalities.

Terry stated:"And have you reported the worker that works with your daughter to immigration?"

We both turned him in the next morning. Why, wouldn't you have?

You really think, that just because he has an ID, that will get him through it, like they can't see the picture on it

Right.. like the poll workers are even going to pay that close attention.

For all the NAN-SAYERS.... Answer this one:

NCAAP Checks IDs at Meeting with Eric Holder While Complaining about Showing ID Cards at Polling Booths

10Jul

Posted by MacRanger as News

Only In America,

In the state of PA there has been zero occurances of in-person-voting-fraud since 2000. The supporters of the bill freely admit this, and the fact that the law will not necessary eliminate such fraud.

Sooooooooo, I guess the only reason for the law is to make it more burdensome for some people to vote - which is ok, but why can't you just say. "This PA law is intended to suppress voting among certain people that we do not really want to vote."

You do seem to relish making people dependent on others. I see that you're willing to let others ask for all this assistance, and I can only guess because you've never been in a position of needing assistance for what is considered a normally individual activity.

johnr123,

So glad that you understand that the sole intent of the law is to make it more difficult to vote, and not to end any voting fraud.

Factor in that there may be a several thousand voting precints in PA and 70 places to get ID (zero in some entire counties), and your smug comment just shows you unknowledgable about what you write.

John and Only, do you really think it's just as easy to go to the DMV as it is to vote? My voting place is across the street, I just walk there. The DMV is about 15 minutes by car. Before I moved here, my voting place was 5 minutes by car and the DMV was about 30 minutes by car. And to vote, I only needed to sign the sheet (when it was a new location, I showed ID also). To get a new, never had before, ID I would need to show a social security card (hope I have one) and a birth certificate (or apply for one at that time) and have 2 forms of proof of residency. And then hope they are all accepted in time to get the ID to vote. Voting takes about 10 minutes, including time to get there and back, plus whatever time it takes to stand in line (much longer now that everyone needs to show ID). Getting the ID, if I have the documents, would take at least an hour, if everything goes well. I ask you, would you rather go to vote or would you rather deal with your DMV?

Using the argument that only "a handful" of voter fraud cases have been proven to negate a voter ID law is about as stupid as stating that the only people speeding in their cars are the ones who get tickets. Idiot logic!

ID cards and driver licenses in Florida are $25 a pop. It could be a burden to people with no jobs, which are abundant nowadays. Trying to get one is a whole-day process which could turn a lot of people off. I for one, rather do applications online, but for new cards the person would have to waste an entire day to do so. Not to mention that appointments must be done online and it can take several weeks to get one. Going to the DMV in FL now takes planning in advanced.

It's 2012.....$25 is a burden to no one.

Liberals ( who have supported Voter ID before they decided it was a good wedge issue to use against the GOP ) are more Butt-Hurt that it will be harder to get ID's for thier very Party loyal dead voters.

I know poor people who have a drivers license but get a speeding ticket for $200 and can't afford to pay it. Guess what, they take your license. To get it back you have to pay the $200 dollars for the original ticket another $100 in fees then another $25 to get another license issued.

It's not as simple as most people think. If you are poor then just $10 makes a big difference in your budget. This law will prevent some people from voting who otherwise would.

Or they just go to the DMV and say they don't have a valid ID for voting and prove they are who they say they are and the DMV will give them a photo ID for free.

denver bill 2,

You consider suppressing potentially hundreds of thousands of legal votes for the sake of preventing 9 illegal ones (which it wouldn't even do, since those 9 people almost certainly have fake IDs) "erring on the side of caution"?

Are they being supressed because of the government or because they are lazy? If they don't go and pick up their free ID using the same documents they used to register to vote, that isn't the government's fault but their own. According to you, the government supresses 45% of the people in each election since they don't vote.

A Law which is claimed to solve a problem that doesn't exist, but is actually designed to solve the problem of Romney/neo-fascist unpopularity is upheld by republikkkan judge. No surprise there.

What is surprising is, with the kind of reasoning shown here, that the guy ever got into law school. "only a limited burden..." So I assume the burden must be unlimited?

"Disenfranchisement not immediate or inevitable..." No, it happens in November and it's only three nines probable.

"legitimate sweep..." There is no legitimate purpose served by the law. There is no problem that needs to be addressed by the law. It is factitious and it has been invented to serve factionalism. It's like a law against scratching your ass - to be enforced selectively, of course.

The judge has no power of reasoning at all - and I thought lawyers, dishonest or not, had at least to be clever.

As to the OP who apparently feels bullied by illegals, I might suggest learning something so you don't have to work picking peppers and tomatoes.

As to the guy who resoundingly asserts that he met an illegal, proving that there are illegal immigrants in America -- So what? There have always been illegal immigrants in America. The rich are still paying very low taxes, so the existence of the illegals has not thwarted the GOP's only purpose, its only reason for being. Except, of course, to coddle bigots.

Go figure - A Democratic Congress have proposed a National ID to be used among other things as a voter ID, yet individual states passing voter ID laws is called neo-fascist and as a tool to disenfranchise voters in rants by the liberal left wingnuts.

Shon - "I know poor people who have a drivers license but get a speeding ticket for $200 and can't afford to pay it. Guess what, they take your license. To get it back you have to pay the $200 dollars for the original ticket another $100 in fees then another $25 to get another license issued."

Seriously?? Well, guess they should not be speeding then huh?.? If you are going to speed and get a $200 ticket that you know you can't pay, you are probably not responsible enough to be voting anyway.

I am kinda amused at the person who said that the unemployed are burdened by having to spend almost a whole day trying to get an I.D....

It's not like they need time off from work to get it done...you would think a chronically unemployed person could manage to save $5/year toward getting a $20 state I.D. every 4 years to be able to vote for someone who would represent his/her interests.

NH_Shellback

Go figure - A Democratic Congress have proposed a National ID to be used among other things as a voter ID, yet individual states passing voter ID laws is called neo-fascist and as a tool to disenfranchise voters in rants by the liberal left wingnuts.

Democrats have prevented the implementation of the REAL I.D. Act at every opportunity since it was signed into law almost 7 years ago now.....

He's a point that completely erases the entire idea that making "the poor" pay to get an I.D. is 'wrong"...

Any person receiving public assistance is already being compensated...expecting them to use their welfare money to get an I.D. is not unreasonable.

If you are getting welfare, food stamps or other assistance, you can't claim that being expected to pay $20 every four years is a burdern...

J R Browenstein

Democrats have prevented the implementation of the REAL I.D. Act at every opportunity since it was signed into law almost 7 years ago now.....

Democrat Chuck Schumer pushed for a National ID include in an Immigration Reform Bill

www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/29/national-id-card-included_n_557721.html

big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/REPAIRProposal.pdf

A single Democrat pushing for a National ID does not mitigate that the Democrats in government have deliberately prevented the REAL ID Act from being implemented, even though it was recommended by the 9/11 commision and signed into law soon afterward.

J R Browenstein - My comment touches on the hypocrisy over National ID or Voter ID by the left. They propose a National ID themselves as part of immigration reform proposals, yet they attach republicans for supporting and enacting state level voter id legislation.

No, Soldier's Dad, $10 can be a lot to those who aren't scraping by.

Why was it necessary that the law go into effect immediately rather than a year or so to given folks who don't drive, drink and shoot time to get the id?

I mean we've survived about 250 years without it.

Won't it be interesting to hear all those old white guys out in the suburbs who don't drive anymore fuming when they won't be able to vote for Romney? Haven't heard about any Republican effort to provide ID's to anybody.

GreenTimer,

Thats because we believe in taking care of ourselves. We dont wait for hand outs.

The ID's are FREE in PA! Go get one and vote!

This is nothing more than Obama attempting to get all the illegal votes he can.People that are on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, have bank accounts, drive, Etc, etc,. all have pictured I.D.'s that are required for these services.

The only ones that doesn't have a pictured I.D. are the illegals, too young, felons.

I agree that voter ID is needed, but I grew up in Mississippi where a person had to pay a poll tax to vote. There is no question that the two issues are similar and the whole issue could be eliminated if poor voters could obtain a ID card through the social welfare system, such as it is.

What tired said ... it's free to anyone already on public assistance.

Also, you can get your freshly minted photo ID the same day you walk into any of the thousands of Photo / Drivers' License centers statewide.

All you need are two documents proving your citizenship and name, and something with your current address on it, like a utility bill

Whoop de freaking doo. If you don't have at least that, then how in the Nine Hells did you even manage to get public assistance?

Rangewolf

This is nothing more than Obama attempting to get all the illegal votes he can.People that are on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, have bank accounts, drive, Etc, etc,. all have pictured I.D.'s that are required for these services.

The only ones that doesn't have a pictured I.D. are the illegals, too young, felons.

Oh please, you're just being ingorant.

Let's face it, if there was a way to vote illegaly then Republicans would have been doing it for years.

Instead they put all of their efforts into voter suppression/intimidation, providing too few ballots in districts with a high democratic turnout, questionable electronic voting machines (that can be hacked), and election annomolies such as missing ballots, found ballots, etc...

And if all else fails, the Republicans on the Supreme Court will case the deciding vote.

2inspire2 -you are soooooo misinformed. Until recently immigrants could come to this country and apply after arriving for citizenship. That is how my family came. They immigrated from the UK via Canada and down to NYC. Once there they applied for citizenship. It was much different in the 1920's. Now an immigrant has to request entrance from the foreign country before entering the US. So you are ill informed. Before labeling libs as whiners please look at the entire picture.

At least someone has some sense. Looks like the GOP won't be able to screw the people in Pennsylvania, anyway.

@Soldier's Dad - I think that paying for the ID is part of the argument that states that you would be paying to vote. (I forgot the proper term for it.) Also, voting is supposed to be a part of our basic right.

I think that it would be good if everyone had an acceptable photo ID as we all do with our SS card but with every state having different requiremets for what is considered acceptable and others that would fight having a national ID system that probably won't happen anytime soon.

This requirement to get an ID so close to the election is a bit suspicious, don't you think? Normally there is a grace period before some of these laws are made effective after signing. Also that video of that guy listing off his checklist, including the voter ID requirement as a means to ensure that Romney gets elected in PA is further cause to believe that there is something definitely suspicious about this effort in the state.

I just hope that however the appeal goes, that people somehow get a chance to and/or do exercise their right to vote.

Voter ID is a violation of the 15th amendment. This is Voter Suppression at its finest.

Watch the video and sign the petition to end Voter Suppression.

The judge must be a RePub-A-Con, rumors this judge suffers from Seizures !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the state issues the "voter ID" at no charge to the voter, then the requirement is legal, but if the state requires you to "buy" one of their IDs, then it becomes a poll tax and is illegal under the Constitution.

The funny thing is, Pennsylanvia admitted there isn't any evidence of voter fraud, and those that are against "big gubment" are the ones pushing for "big gubment" id cards. Priceless.

And photo id isn't always required to cash a check, depends on where you live and which stores you shop.

this is not about the ID's them selves its about the timing and intent of it ... when a politician says " Voter ID done .... witch will give {presidential runner} ..{insert state here}.." you have to ask your self is this how to get a state in an election ... by blocking enough voters that your voters are all that count ... that is NOT democracy .... if you think so you are either deluded or naive enough to think it cant be done to you

That was actually one of the dumbest things I've ever read. It's because of people like you in both parties that democrats and republicans have such little faith in the other party. Pull your head out of your ass and next time you decide to open your mouth think about it first.

13. My Policy: @Another Deadbeat Texan should not be allowed to vote because he lowers the average voting IQ by at least 10 points.

Niteshade

This requirement to get an ID so close to the election is a bit suspicious, don't you think?

The voter ID law was signed into affect on March 15th of this year. So, people have already had 5 months to get updated ID's if needed.

The governor said it himself, "this will allow Romney to win in November"

If a person cannot ID themselves to vote, does that mean they currently cannot apply for, and receive, medicare, medicade, welfare, and food stamps....or does it mean that people receiving medicare, medicade, welfare and food stamps are not currently being identified?

I think we all agree that it is infuriating to hear of the fraud (in entitlement programs such as food stamps, welfare etc.) draining scarce funds away from the truly needy. Much of that fraud stems from our inability to correctly identify the recipient...identification is at the heart of the problem.

America has reached a point in it's history where we have to make every dollar count. We MUST help those who find themselves in great need not of their own making, but we can no longer afford to reward those who make a partial (or complete) living out of gaming the support systems for those we are trying to help.

Voter ID laws, while perhaps seemingly abhorrent on their face, not only take a step towards guaranteeing the validity of the vote, they take a step towards solving the identification problem that affects all our entitlement programs.

Hold your nose and support voter ID laws....in the long run they will do more good than harm.

Go to the DMV with proof of residence to either get a driver's license or a photo ID. It costs a fraction of what most (poor) people spend a month on their cell phone plans.

This is the consequence for voting all of those radical Republicans into office in 2010. Now they are taking away your right to vote. Voter fraud is non existent yet we have this voter suppression crusade perpetrated by the GOP.

The lawsuits against voter ID laws are always initiated by the progressive/socialist left which proves once again that the democratic party is the party of the dregs of society.

Those that are against Voter ID requirements are the ones that would engage in and/or endorse voter fraud of the type that anonymous voting promotes, and any claims of disenfranchisement are complete nonsense.

Anyone that that thinks the voter ID requirement will allow Romney to win in November only serves to reinforce the perception that the democrats can't win unless they are allowed to commit voting fraud.

-

Voting is a right, owning a gun is a right, both should require ID.

To be able to vote without proving who you are is insane. Proving who you are is not a poll tax.

You obviously don't know much about voting history dead beat texan. The dems pretty much always retain their seats in the senate and when republicans have a marginal lead it is only around 2-4 seats. Since 1950 Republicans have only had complete control of congress for four years. Democrats pretty much always have congress while a republican is in office.

A disgusting issue with the many problems plaguing this nation. This administration fears loosing all those fraudulent voters. It needs to be put to rest and get on with the job for which he was elected to do.

"The governor said it himself, "this will allow Romney to win in November""

How about thinking on that statement for a bit to get it's meaning CorporateShill? His point is, as long as there isn't any illegal voting allowed, the Democrats chances are pretty well nill, that is his point.

Someone above said that all libs are whiners. Really? Sounds to me the opposite. Sounds like to me the liberals are trying to help people and the other folks are trying to screw people...it is sad and the majority of the people in this country are seeing it for what it is. Romney doesn't give a crap about anyone but his rich cronies. The GOP has only one thing on their mind and that is to get the President out of the office and it isn't going to work...you see, the American people, even the poorest of the poor realize what is happening and believe you me, they will go get their ID and they will vote and Mitt and the GOP will realize that we will not be divided by greed and narcissism. This is the most horrendous and ridiculous attempt I have seen, except for the fact that everything the President has tried to do has been shot down by the Republicans, even things they themselves created, just to get President Obama out of the WH and honestly, it is the most pitiful, selfish, narcissistic, hateful lack of empathy and caring for fellow human beings I have ever seen. The fact that most of the white, middle aged and elderly MEN who claim to be "christians" and attack the race, sex and religion of everyone else is pitiful. They hate gays, women, abortion, medicaid, social security and why?? Because they worship the almighty dollar and are apparently ignorant and hateful. Take a look people. WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE THE GOVERNMENT. Let's show these losers that we are tired of the b.s. and playing around with human lives. As Ghandi said, "I like your Christ, although your Christians are not like your Christ"...AMEN... Sickening.

@Soldier's Dad - I think that paying for the ID is part of the argument that states that you would be paying to vote. (I forgot the proper term for it.) Also, voting is supposed to be a part of our basic right.

All this crap about "taking away your right to vote" is complete BS. Per the Constitution, I have a basic right to own and bear arms; however, that right is highly regulated (as it should be)...no difference with voting. All legal citizens should and do have the right to vote but that doesn't mean it can't be subject to certain reasonable regulations - like VOTER ID REQUIREMENTS!

"Sounds like to me the liberals are trying to help people"

Help them do what Diverdown, to help some of them continue to screw the set laws and systems we do have and get away with it? Why aren't the liberals trying to help the illegals that are from South of the border try and get their own country straightened out, so they don't have to sneak over here? Are the liberals going to make sure the IRS stops allowing fraudulent tax filings from illegal aliens, saving the tax payers 56 billion dollars a year in fraudulent tax rebates? Allowing for any kind of fraud to happen within any frame of society or government, does not make for a good country to be living in.

only in America

His point is, as long as there isn't any illegal voting allowed, the Democrats chances are pretty well nill, that is his point.

Penn has no proof of any illegal voting, ever !!!

More worried about the fraudulent tax filings from the rich.

Everyone that's saying it will cost $5 or $10 is wrong (at least for PA.) Not only can you get it for free at the DMV if you have no other ID that's valid for voting..

From Penndot's website:

"$13.50 fee for acquiring an Identification Card will be waived for
individuals completing the Oath/ Affirmation Voter ID form. All
identification documentation is still required to obtain an Identification Card..."

but if they can't provide the id documents required for the PennDot Id they can still get one at the same location from the PA Dept of State

From the Pa Dept of State website:

"Registered voters who cannot obtain the proper documentation needed for a FREE PENNDOT PHOTO ID card will be able to obtain a FREE DEPARTMENT OF STATE ID CARD at their local PennDOT Driver’s License Center."

Lastly even someone doesn't have the required ID when they arrive at the polling place, they will still be allowed to cast a provisional ballot

From the PA Voter ID website:

"NO ONE legally entitled to vote will be denied the right to do so. If you do not have a photo ID, or are iindigent and unable to obtain one without payment of a fee, you may cast a provisional ballot, and will have six days to provide your photo ID and/or an affirmation to your county elections office to have your ballot count. If you have a religious objection to being photographed you can still vote by presenting a valid without-photo driver’s license or a valid without-photo ID card issued by PennDOT."

It looks like we've made it as painless as possible.

Ron D,

How many web sites did you painlessly visit before you narrowed your well researched response to a few key sentences from each of just 3 totally different web sites?

Your thoroughness in rationalizing a law that isn't needed awsome.

@ Greentimer - 7 months to the next election is far from "immediate." Laziness should not be enabled.

Also, we used to have a much more honest populations. Not so much anymore. We've had those who keep trying to give "rights" where no right there or should be given. Who ever thought years ago, America would need to make the voting process honest? To many either ignore, hold in contempt, or find some other "feel good" excuse to exempt themselves from our laws. Sad, truly sad.......

It doesn't matter if it's free; if you have to go to a certain place to get it, that may require someone who can't afford it to take time off from their job, and that still constitutes a hardship.

The right to vote is the single most essential right to a democracy, and exercising it should have fewer barriers than exercising any other right. Much better to err on the side of granting the right to someone who doesn't deserve it than denying it to someone who does.

So they can't find the time off in 7 months to have one day to go get the ID but they will have no problem finding a way to get there in November to vote? You've got to try harder than that.

I've seen right wing a-holes complain again and again about unnecessary laws. Especially when those laws prevent the rich from committing one or another of their many crimes.

That they are supporting this particular unnecessary law is conclusive evidence that they think it works in their favor. The law is intended to suppress the vote. It's just another step down the road to American Fascism.

Obviously you have never dealt with PENNDOT.

Obvously you have not as well...

Obviously you have never dealt with PENNDOT

I have many times and can testify they are the worst beaurocracy to ever exist. That being said, they have actually made the process of getting a driver's license photo or ID card quite simple in spite of themselves.

Pat G -Don't you realize the disenfrancised will be senior citizens. They are not buying cigs and beer. Most seniors have banked at the same branch and don't need a photo id to deposit their ss checks into their accts.

You are also wrong about the white house requiring a photo id to tour. Once a tour is set up by your Senator you need only give the ss#'s of all visitors.

Republicans don't want minorities and poor people, who are not eligible, voting.

There, fixed it for you.

Pat G

The only reason you whine is it stops the labor unions from falsifying votes.

where's your proof of that statement ?????

If you are not

• unregistered
• trying to vote multiple times
• dead
• a felon ( in some states the voting privileges can be restored)
• an illegal alien

, then your legal ID will not prevent you from voting!!! The only persons who cannot vote are those who fall into one of the disqualifying categories. This is already the law.

you nut case liberals don't have a problem with following the law, do you?

Apparently they DO have a problem with this. How many came out in the last election and voted that might /should not have been able to??? Everyone SHOULD have photo ID...What is such a big deal... If you are legal in the United States you should be able to show it...However, the way this administration is running/ruining this country... Pretty soon we'll be hearing what past countries had to live!!!! SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS!!! So in response... we are preparing for both...for legal voting and in the event this administration wins a second term everyone will be prepared to SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS!!!!

"BS is hogwash !!!" Give yourself another thumbs up on that statement.

Three judges have ruled our Voter ID Law in Wisconsin Unconstitutional as it would deny 10's of thousands of college student to vote and the Voter ID Photo that was to be gotten at the Motor V. Dept. had the sign taken down on orders of the wacko governor. Since only 8 cases of voter ID have been cited in the last decade we know why the law was written and now, "Thank God," stopped here. Too bad Penn.

Respond to this then:::

NCAAP Checks IDs at Meeting with Eric Holder While Complaining about Showing ID Cards at Polling Booths

10Jul

Posted by MacRanger as News

You are a silly dude, are you OK ???? ........#5.12 !!!

Pat G just shows how easy it is for the Repugnicans to lie.

I still don't understand how the voter ID law denies anyone the right to vote.

If you are eligible to vote but for some strange reason don't have a state issued ID... go to the DMV and get one! You don't even need a drivers license you can get a regular ID card. They are like five bucks... I think you can even get them for FREE in most states.

So... who can't do this? It seems simple to me. I have had a state ID for as long as I can remember. I had an ID card when I was in high school...

If you were to say that you need to have a state issued photo ID to vote and then could prove that the DMV is refusing to give state issued ID's to minorities then you would have a case. But ANYONE who is a legal resident can get an ID card regardless of what color they are.

If your district, county, State has the impetus to enforce a STRICT VOTER I.D., then that is the law.

It all depends on who is in office.

This link shows the disparity...your "rights" change from State border to State border

http://www.ncsl.org/legislatures-elections/elections/voter-id.aspx

In Ohio...they change from zip code to zip code...or within a neighborhood block.

Suddenly, A STRICT VOTER I.D. mandate seems to be a political war-cry of the GOP.

In 2000.... after the Florida Chad mess... this perceived "abuse" of Voter I.D. wasn't the GOP priority when Bush was finally granted (not through POPULAR VOTE) the Presidency.

'

'

Ironically, Florida does not have a STRICT VOTER I.D. policy....

The Strict Photo ID States Are:

Georgia

Indiana

Kansas

*Mississippi (6)

Pennsylvania

**South Carolina (1)

Tennessee

**Texas (1)

*Wisconsin (2)

Pat G -- "we dressed like INS agents" -- THANK YOU for the best idea I've seen! Please do it again this year!

Another slam to the Democrats~Liberals.

It is good to see a Judge with some common sense. Bottom line: to cast a vote in ANY election within the United States of America, you MUST BE A CITIZEN of the United States of America. This has nothing to do with the elderly or the like......PERIOD.

Enter: Mr. Eric Holder and his band of crooked lawyers.

It is good to see a Judge with some common sense. Bottom line: to cast a vote in ANY election within the United States of America, you MUST BE A CITIZEN of the United States of America.

how is this not already the case, and how do these laws change any of that? Voter fraud is a non-issue, for all intents and purposes it doesn't exist in so far as how it is being scaremongered in this debate.

This has nothing to do with the elderly or the like......PERIOD.

it might, as elderly are perhaps the least likely folks to have the required picture ID and possibly little means of obtaining one.

Enter: Mr. Eric Holder and his band of crooked lawyers.

no more crooked than the last bunch (and likely less so). Welcome to the plutocracy!

If a person cannot ID themselves to vote, does that mean they currently cannot apply for, and receive, medicare, medicade, welfare, and food stamps....or does it mean that people receiving medicare, medicade, welfare and food stamps are not currently being identified?

I think we all agree that it is infuriating to hear of the fraud (in entitlement programs such as food stamps, welfare etc.) draining scarce funds away from the truly needy. Much of that fraud stems from our inability to correctly identify the recipient...identification is at the heart of the problem.

America has reached a point in it's history where we have to make every dollar count. We MUST help those who find themselves in great need not of their own making, but we can no longer afford to reward those who make a partial (or complete) living out of gaming the support systems for those we are trying to help.

Voter ID laws, while perhaps seemingly abhorrent on their face, not only take a step towards guaranteeing the validity of the vote, they take a step towards solving the identification problem that affects all our entitlement programs.

Hold your nose and support voter ID laws....in the long run they will do more good than harm.

Report from #4.23, and what was the reason for collapsing that thread?

I am liberal and appreciate how this law may impact low income and elderly voters.

However, I have also worked the polls on election day. This law makes complete sense-as it will address people who vote several times for family they know aren't going to vote and dead people. When all you need to do is give your name to the well intentioned 90 year old working there and sign the book-can people really not see how easy it os to vote mutiple times?

One thing that this does not address is people who vote at the polls and via absentee ballot-they don't remove the names of people when the receive their votes in the mail.

I very much understand why people are agaginst this-but feel that their time would be better spent working to get those who do not have id's to get them than fighting something that is kind of common sense.

No one is saying anyone can't vote. They just want to make sure you are who you say. How does that not make sense?

If people are not allowed to vote, then they should take up their 2nd amendment rights and put down those who have taken away their rights.

This is a simple solution. Take away something from me (and the courts refuse to stop it), then I will stop you from ever doing it again.

If you are doing something fully legal - then you should not be afraid. If you are trying to disenfranchise me because of my politics, then you should be put down...

Let's see....Nov 6 you'll need a photo ID to voluntarily vote and elderly and minorities won't be able to comply.

Jan 2014 you'll need a photo ID to be eligible for the MANDATORY affordable care act. Quit procrastinating. Get it done or jump on the repeal bandwagon if it's really racism.

how is this not already the case, and how do these laws change any of that? Voter fraud is a non-issue, for all intents and purposes it doesn't exist in so far as how it is being scaremongered in this debate.

Yes, because ACORN was totally legit. And there really were thousands of legit registered voters at a single trailer house in Texas.

Allen - making up statements and calling it truth does not make it so. You create a boogieman called Acorn (without even finding out what they actually did) and believed the lies from a phoney video that a conservative scammer created (and a republican led congressional investigation determined that the video was false).

Please provide one piece of evidence that supports 1000 people registered from one address. We are waiting...

And if we are going to make up lies and call them truths - how about the truth that the thousands of republicans are each registering hundreds of phoney names and arranging them to vote absentee. Or (and this is actual truth) the rich retirees who vote at their winter state and their summer state. But the laws don't apply to the rich.

Dotties girl

Pat G -- "we dressed like INS agents" -- THANK YOU for the best idea I've seen! Please do it again this year!

isn't impersonating a law enforcement agent against the law?

Another example of how far righties will go to prevent people from voting.

Redwizard000

I still don't understand how the voter ID law denies anyone the right to vote.

because now you are forcing people to pay a fee to vote. An elderly person who gets $800 SS a month has to pay whatever that state requires for an ID and that maybe a lot to them. On top of that, come will have to pay for a copy of a birth certificate. Some don't live in the sate they were born with and getting an out-of-state birth certificate not only costs money but it's time consuming. The list goes on.

uchusky99

This law makes complete sense-as it will address people who vote several times for family they know aren't going to vote and dead people.

prove to me the voter fraud, PLEASE!

The state of PA couldn't prove voter fraud, neither could Republicans or the Republican National Lawyers Association (RNLA)

but YOU can?

Yes, because ACORN was totally legit. And there really were thousands of legit registered voters at a single trailer house in Texas.

Methinks you don't understand what the Acorn "scandal" (if you want to call it that) was all about.

Acorn was paying employees for the number of registration (note, that REGISTRATION, not VOTING) forms they got people to fill out. So a couple nefarious employees filled out fraudulent voter registration forms (again, that's fraudulent registration, not voting) to get paid. Acorn discovered this, and promptly turned over their employees as well as all the required documentation to the FBI, who prosecuted those individuals for voter registration fraud (again not, not vote fraud).

Actually, looking at it now, Acorn and this Voter ID law crap are almost identical situations. Republicans capitalize on a non-issue (then: Acorn is stealing elections, Now: Illegals are stealing elections) to vilify and demonize a process by which poor people, minorities, elderly, and college students might actually get a chance to vote. In total, this was Acorn's only true crime, registering poor people to vote.

because now you are forcing people to pay a fee to vote. An elderly person who gets $800 SS a month has to pay whatever that state requires for an ID and that maybe a lot to them. On top of that, come will have to pay for a copy of a birth certificate. Some don't live in the sate they were born with and getting an out-of-state birth certificate not only costs money but it's time consuming. The list goes on.

In truth, I don't think the cost associated with obtaining ID is the true deterrent, but rather it's the hassle and hoops one must go through to do so. An 85 year old elderly person living in a state they weren't born in and without ID is going to have a hell of a time tracking down, paying for, and remembering all the info necessary to obtain an ID in time to vote. They just might say "screw it" and neglect to do so.

What an interesting concept - if you want to vote you have to prove who you are...........only a liberal would find something inherently wrong with that.

RI mom,

You are wrong about putting Wisconsin on your list. The Wacko Walker Voter Id has been ruled Unconstitutional by 3 different judges!

"No clear evidence how many may be affected", YET THERE IS NO "CLEAR" EVIDENCE OF VOTER FRAUD. Sure we need to "register" to vote, sure we need TO vote, AND if someone wants to demand those voting should stand on their head while voting then I believe those demanding this to be done SHOULD PAY FOR THE PRIVILEGE. So i believe if republicraps WANT everyone voting to have a means of identification different from what that voter has THEN I BELIEVE IT SHOULD BE THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO TO PAY FOR WHATEVER IDENTIFICATION NEEDED. this also includes mileage, time lost from work, transportation, meals if needed, and ANY OTHER EXPENSE INCURRED WHILE OBTAINING THAT DOCUMENT. Without these stipulations there should be no other identification other than their voter I D card. In the millions of voting participants there has been only 10 documented cases of voter fraud, 10, and if republicraps believe THOSE 10 made any difference in any election than I to have a bridge to sell them.

bayllie, they didn't really. That's their way of making a point. Just like the other day, a couple right wing posters claimed they voted illegally in the past couple presidential elections. It's called lying to try to prove a point which there is no real evidence of. But, just in case they really did vote illegally, their guy STILL lost even with their multiple illegal votes.

And to all who think this will stop fraud, please explain exactly how. All the fraud I have heard of has had to do with being illegally registered, voting multiple times, etc. How is this going to prevent it? A fake ID is much easier to obtain than a valid one. And if someone is going to vote fraudulently, needing an ID won't stop him/her from getting one.

LA99999

And to all who think this will stop fraud, please explain exactly how.

there is provable fraud with absentee ballots - and you don't have to show ID - so you would think that the Republicans would go after the absentee voting. But they won't because they benefit from those.

And that is why the whole Republican "voting fraud" is a pile of steaming $hit.

Ray4: We are blessed in this country to have a system where the PEOPLE decide who they want to run their country. The PEOPLE should take it as an honor and privilege to vote - but we certainly don't want to inconvenience anyone - do we? There were people in Iraq and Afghanistan so HAPPY to have the opportunity to vote they dipped their finger (showing they had voted) at the risk of being tortured and/or killed for voting. In 2009 the Taliban would cut the ink stained finger off of anybody they found who had voted as a deterrence to voting.

And you want to make it sound like someone doesn't want to get a voter id card because they don't want to spend an hour to go to a place to register or get an id? Have liberals become THAT lazy they won't even REGISTER to vote or get an id to vote? Then don't vote. There is your answer. If you are THAT lazy that you don't see how important your ability to vote is then I don't care if you vote or not.

You have to be PROUD of your vote. You have to see how important your vote is. So if you don't want to register or get an id then don't vote.

But let's go one step further. I KNOW these people have legal id's because it is needed to get a job. You CANNOT accept a job without legal id and you cannot get welfare and unemployment without legal id so these people whether working or not MUST have a legal id otherwise they can't work or accept assistance without it. So STOP with your rambling incoherent logic and reply. If you want to vote show your legal id and vote. If not willing to show id then I don't care that you are not voting.

Take pride in yourself and take the ability to vote seriously because one day you just might not have that ability anymore and you would risk your life (like in Iraq and Afghanistan) to have the opportunity to vote just one more time.............

Anderson

Pat G -Don't you realize the disenfrancised will be senior citizens. They are not buying cigs and beer. Most seniors have banked at the same branch and don't need a photo id to deposit their ss checks into their accts.

My Mom is 73, has never had a driver's license & doesn't smoke or drink and she has a State Issued photo ID.

If they can only find a way to regulate voter/election fraud in Illinois elections. . .

Chicago Style should have been outlawed decades ago.

Thank you Ron D.!! Up until the day my Grandmother died at the age of 98 she had a state issued photo ID! She died in 2006 but she voted in every election she could. That was a lot of elections for her. She was proud to carry it and even more proud to show it (every chance she got by the way). Either a neighbor or relative would take her to get it renewed and later when she was living in an assisted living facility they would take any senior that wanted to go down to the local DMV to get either their renewal or a new ID.

It's NOT that big of a deal to get one. Why do those on the left think this is such a difficult task?

john -

i don't know where in pa you live, but i've lived in pa all my life (63 yrs) and have never shown an id to vote...

I live in PA too and I had to show it the first year after that I didn't but that is because I live in a very small town and everyone knows everyone to the point where they are looking me up in the book while I'm still standing in line.

..and I live in California and have ALWAYS had to show ID to vote.

Jeff,

I do too, for some reason its not wrong for the blue state of California to do, just other states that dems want to steal.

i live in ca and never showed id to vote

..and I live in California and have ALWAYS had to show ID to vote.

never had to when I lived in Cali. If you are showing ID, you're probably not legally required to do so.

Up until and including the 2010 elections, one did not need an ID to vote in Cali (not sure if the rules have been changed now, likely not).

They want the swing states not to have voter ID. I live in CT and have always had to show an ID to vote as well. But then, sadly we are not a swing state, yet.

Jeff-573598 and MrBurns

I don't know where in California you live, but other than showing ID when I FIRST registered to vote (in 1967), I have NEVER had to show ID to vote.

MrBurns, "States that democrats want to steal"? Seriously? That is what this is about? Democrats simply want to steal elections, but Republicans are not trying to suppress votes? Even in the State of Pa, the Attorney General admitted that there were NO KNOWN CASES of fraudulent voting. So there was this urgency to rush a law into effect to prevent a crime that HAS NOT HAPPENED! You can fool yourself by swallowing that bilge about "protecting the vote"; the rest of us know it is nothing more than a naked attempt to reduce the total number of votes cast. It will not work. If you cannot win an election by presenting good candidates and reasonable ideas, you do not deserve to win. Blatant attempts to restrict a fundamental American right will backfire. You should have been out front in trying to get as many legal voters registered as possible, instead of supporting schemes to deny rights to fellow Americans. SHAME!

Too bad you didn't try this during the 1950s...Oh wait...

Mr Burns - States that Dems want to steal? PA is a blue state moron.

The GOP TeaWackos are all about the 1% and F the Middle Class !!!!!!!!

I live in FL and I've always shown a photo ID when I voted. I don't see what the big deal is as long as the ID is free to those that can't afford to pay for it.

I am curious about all the "if you dont show it - you have something to hide" responses from all the RepubTeas out there today.

Does that flippant response apply to Robme and his tax returns? (I thought as much)

WOW--every single day--you RepubTeas come up with a new a better way to be a prime example of HYPOCRIT!

Nov can not get here soon enough!!!!!

Here in Ohio things are much worse that voters having to have identification. Our Secretary of State is allowing Republican leaning counties to have longer voting hours at the polls than than those counties that lean towards the Democrats. He claims it is about money and voter fraud. None of which is true. The ACLU and state Democrats are asking for uniform hours for all counties. The secretary won't respond. If that isn't voter suppression, I don't know what is.

It didn't take long to throw in Romney's tax returns... typical liberal response. How about the POTUS showin ALL his ORIGINAL papers. birth certificate, law degree, college transcripts??? This is about ID's and VOTING!! This might JUST help curb the ILLEGAL problem we have in the United States so stick to the subject!!!

Ummmm Burns, whose party has been busy re-districting voting areas for several years to oppress and suppress voting rights? You know, that 800 lb gorilla in the 'patriotic' elephant suit.

Annie said only little people pay Taxes !!!!!!!!!!!

Annie likes horsing around with the IRS !!!!!!!!!

Still waiting, care to explain how it is that NO other President has had to go through what President Obama has and still does. Of course it doesn't matter to you that certain candidate won't show how they screwed America concerning their taxes, or change their opinions one way or another depending on what they are told by their Bush Era 'handlers from one day to the next' or that they will blatantly lie and then double down on that lie, or that they are followers of Ann Rynd, until they were told to distance themselves from her because the Catholic Church had a problem with her/their philosophies. Oh wait, they are 'horses of a different color like all the past Presidents,' so 'they' get a pass and don't have to be 'scrutinized' like President Obama did/does. I get it.

@Pat G-3324946

Lying much? There are few cases of voter fraud in the last 10 years and illegal wouldn't vote anyway. How many illegal would risk being deport to vote?

Seem you failed to consider that and just lie to make your case.

Libs:

This is just one of many defeats you are going to be subjected to in the next few months. Get use to it!

Someone tell me how we can have this appealed and go through the system before election day but cant know anything about the leaks from the White House or Fast and Furious until after the election. Now that is fraud!

Still Waiting... let me explain this to you.. we are not asking for Mitt's birth certificate or college transcripts. We are asking for his tax returns.. and President Obama has already provided his. Soooo.. we're just asking Mitt to provide the same information that the President has provided.

Because your asking for it he must abide. Well, we are asking for transcripts so your messiah must abide.

Because your asking for it he must abide. Well, we are asking for transcripts so your messiah must abide.

if you can't, or won't, see the differences between a presidential candidate releasing his TAX returns and one releasing his/her school TRANSCRIPTS, there is no helping you...

gal1693--Thank you for responding to Still Waiting--the bigots and the racists continue to use the "where's Obama's B/C and school records" yet deny they are treating this president any differently than any other. YET--

Romney can conceal his tax returns - no one is allowed to question them.

Romney can say he is better because he has business experience -- no one is allowed to use the BAD business practices against him.

P.Ryan has been in the G'ment for 14 years and has sponsered such bills as the FEDERAL ULTRASOUND and PERSONHOOD bills -- no one is allowed to use that in the media

Ryan's "PATH" has the exact same $716B Medicare/Medicaid cuts as the President's does (Ryan's $$$ going to the top tier income bracket) -- no one is allowed to compare them.

It has been proven and proven for decades that voter fraud is next to non-existant. Less than 20 actual cases have been found which computes to less that 1 in 15, 000, 000. And the Voter ID laws and changes are conspicuously geared toward minority and heavily democratic leaning places. But--no one is allowed to point that out.

No one is allowed to point out that the smaller Government party wants to only govern minority and women's rights and allow the rich and powerful to continue to make the decisions for this country.

I BEG OF ALL OF THE VOTING PUBLIC OUT THERE --- PLEASE VOTE THIS NOV!!! We must continue to get this country back to its core of citizen selected officials -- not corporation yes-men driven by greed.

LOL Grover! Releasing college admission papers and tax returns is a distinction without a difference. The point is that neither are being honest and open with the information. All I want to know is did Barack Obama, a man of very limited means, pay for college in whole or in part by claiming not to be a U.S. citizen and therefore qualify for foreign aid. What on earth could be more benign than a college admission?

If there is nothing to hide, then there is absolutely no compelling reason not to release it. So.....

John,

Kinda like tax returns?

bethanyB...

Quite right, Nov can't get here soon enough.

One and done in 2012...OMG!

gal1693...

...and I suppose everyone here are tax experts. If obama, the DOJ and the IRS have not found anything wrong with romney's tax returns what makes you think anyone on these boards can? Heck, it didn't take long for the IRS to find fault with geithners taxes prior to his being confirmed as treasury secretary.

Seems like it is only the lefty fools and incompetents posting here that needs a red herring to deflect from obamas record.

BTW - If the GOP and democrats were happy with obamas proof of birth as being in the USA in 2008, then the birthers were also fools and incompetents for insisting on seeing obama's hawaiian birth certificate.

american--

You are going to be terribly disappointed come Nov!

Romney/Ryan will not - I repeat - WILL NOT - win this Nov. I even predict upset in the house! Mark my words, and my post!

Drowning grover...

Other than just out of curiosity, it would be interesting to see obamas school transcripts. After all, the left talks all about his high level of intelligence, why shouldn't obama show us his educational strengths and weaknesses?

BTW - I reviewed obamas tax returns and being the tax expert that I am not, what a pile of accounting misrepresentations. <end sarcasm>

Get the point grover? Showing tax returns or transcripts are nothing more than distractions unless the true experts can show that fraud existed.

BethanyB...

I can live with that possibility, can YOU if I am right?

As for the congressional elections, maybe so and maybe not. The 2010 midterms are not likely to be repeated for a strong democrat majority regaining control. Both sides created the gridlock and both sides will be held accountable.

Obama released his birth cert and the birthers still weren't satisfied, alleging it was fraudulent. How would disclosing any college documents be any different? And it wouldn't prove anything for either side and is completely irrelevent.

Romney and his tax returns are different. Nobody disputed he released his real tax return. We just want to see more than one (maybe two soon). You must admit, Romney isn't one to take a stand. He'd buckle in an instant if he wasn't concerned with the content. I don't think he did anything wrong, I just think he crawled through every loophole he could and he's concerned those of us that are not in the top 1% will see how little the very wealthy are actually paying, legally. His entire platform, the only one he has not flipped on, is that the wealthy need to pay less in taxes. His taxes are relevent. He needs to show them.

Jeff -

It is easier to enter California from Mexico. Border patrol plans well for high volume.

american--actually, NO ONE will be able to live with the consequences of "if you are right"

This country IS NOT up for sale and I think (as do about 50 million others) it is about high time the wealthy silver spooned trust babies get that!

Don't you remember ACORN signing up a bunch of phony names to vote? Is it far fetched to imagine them going one step further and actually voting with those false names? The left is very organized and has shown repeatedly that they believe the ends justifies the means. No one is being stripped of their right to vote, just common sense measures to assure the accuracy of the election. You act like getting an ID is hard to do, give me a break. Last I knew you still need an ID to get food stamps, so your people you are worried about should be fine. Read the article. People can still vote via absentee ballots.

How can you identify fraud if you can't identify who's voting? On the other hand the number of people who want to vote and don't and can't get an ID has to be infinitesimal. They haven't been stripped of any rights, they just have an obligation to prove their identity. They must not care very much about the right to vote if they can't be bothered to get an ID card or they are hear illegally and want to vote themselves some more benefits, or a free ride to amnesty. More lame excuses from the Democrats. Instead of whining about stripped rights, why don't you Dems go out and get these people IDs?

Nation wide it's estimated that these voter restriction laws will only rob about 25 million legal voters of their right to vote. Republicans estimate they will lose between 2 and 3 million votes but on the bright side, they will lose the election by just 10-12 million votes instead of the degradation they would other wise face should they not pass these laws based on their parties past of committing voter and ballot fraud.

They realize already they have lost the presidential campaign, it's their state congress and senate seats they are actually trying to preserve.

Um....don't you have to register to vote? So isn't that, in a way, your id? Then again, if anyone knows your name and address...and you don't vote, so no two people would be using that name that day...I don't know...if you are able to show you registered, then you should be able to show id...so what's the big deal? With all the corruption going around, you would think this would be a good thing.

Oh, and please don't go int o a long diatribe about how Obama and whoever else you may hate is being dishonest...THAT doesn't answer my question.

10.00 maybe if you are really that worried about getting to vote I bet you can find 10.00

bluepanther: registering to vote gets your name on the list. Without ID anyone can show up and say they are said person on the list. With ID you, and you alone, get your vote

I bet they have at least $10 for their cigarettes, beer, lottery tickets, junk food, and/or dope every week. Again, it's all about priorities. If you really care about voting, you will get the ID.

I know, Chef..I reread my post and it sounds like I think it is not a good idea to id people...I agree w/you...:)

That the republicans are out in ernest to further strip/regulate citizen rights so strongly is a good thing. It in turn forces these same people effected to actually look at what kind of people republicans truly are and if they keep digging into the other laws the republicans are trying to mandate to rob people of their rights and freedom of choices the better.

Hell, there is a number of republicans right now trying to make even an unplanned miscarriage a felony that in some of their bills would also carry a death penalty for women if they could not prove in court that they had nothing to do with the miscarriage. That's the kind of people republicans coddle now. Look up miscarriage death penalty in your search engines.

The illegals, and the rest of the welfare recipients have no problems finding I'D, when applying for welfare benefits. They have no problem with I'D's when using our friendly airlines either. I'm sure they'll take advantage of the free I'D handouts.

bluepanther, My uncle lived in Arkansas and the low life lying libs have helped him vote for 40 years. I stop and see his grave everytime we go thru Little Rock. He was buried ther in 1971. He used to be a dem until he realized that 99.9% of what they put out could be found in any Kilroy's Castle. That and hot air that causes global warming.

Mike, I would not have believed it if i had not read it with my own eyes. There are some very sick people that for some insane reason... tend to want to be legislators.

This is the new age of republican bullyism. If you disagree with areas of a particular law... circumvent the true intention of the law by any unethical means.

If you are a republican and support franklin's ideas... you are sick... a very sick human indeed.

If they are legal voters, and are capable of making it to the polls without a drivers license, then I'm sure they can manage somehow to get to the town hall, or DMV to get a legal ID before the elections.

I don't understand what the problem is. How many legal citizens in this country can go through life w/o some form of Legal ID? You need a license to drive, get on a plane, cash a check. You need some form of legal photo ID to buy liquor or cigarettes.

There are many forms of ID. License, Military ID, State ID, Passport, Welfare ID.

I just don't get the controversy. If the # of Illegals voting is minuscule fine. Lets get rid of all of it.

I do live in Pa, and I can't believe they upheld this. If you want an ID for voting they will waive the fee if you sign a form. But you still need a social security card and 2 forms of proof of residency. Sounds easy, but if you don't have a social security card, which I didn't have one for about 20 years after losing mine, it takes time and trouble to get one. You also need your birth certificate or, if you don't have it, you need to fill out a form asking for all sorts of info including info about your parents. Let's face it, not everyone has the background info on both parents on hand. Add to that the trouble and cost of getting to the social security office, if need be, and the DMV and you can see where a lot of people will just say it isn't worth it. I doubt I would go through all this if I didn't have the ID already.

Aside from all the trouble, I can't believe the government can now make it more difficult to vote and the majority of people think it's great. These are the same ones who argue they have a right to keep an army's worth of weapons and ammo to keep the government from breaking into their home to take away their freedom. I don't agree with everyone politically but that is to be expected. But it astounds me that anyone can be ok with this let alone the majority. These are desparate ways to change the outcome of an election.

I think if we are to do this we may as well go all the way to make sure only legitimate people vote. My idea is to have every citizen over the age of 18 get a microchip in their forehead in order to be allowed to vote. It is so much better than requiring a picture ID as that can be faked. Each individual will have a unique number which is matched against the voting rolls. We can even start each number with 666. And I'm partly serious. It would make more sense than making everyone carry ID.

@LA..... We need to show ID, and submit to a Federal background check to purchase a fire-arm.

How about we use thumb prints. Scan your thumb print when you vote. In this day and age we should have everyones thumb print on file. Add it to the patriot act. I also had to do this when applying for CHL. If you don't have a thumb print on file, you're not allowed to vote.

It's team ready, Romney picks "Worm" for VP !!!!!!!!!!

One Citizen, One Vote!

Recently, there's been a lot said about voter registration, voter fraud and voter ID.
Previously, the US Supreme Court ruled, in an Indiana case, that states can require photo identification from voters. Not only should all states require a voter ID, we need to ensure that only eligible US citizens vote in order to prevent fraud.
It's about time we introduce a secure, tamper proof voter ID, like our neighbors to the South, in Mexico, are doing since 2004. It is difficult to believe that in our times a person can exist without an ID, for it’s necessary to get welfare benefits, food stamps, medicare benefits, unemployment benefits, even banking account…
"Mexico’s Instituto Federal Electoral (IFE) is an autonomous, non-partisan organization charged with ensuring free and fair elections.
In January, 2004, IFE entered into a four-year contract with Digimarc Corporation to design and supply secure, reliable voter ID cards to Mexican citizens in order to help ensure the ideal of “One Citizen, One Vote.”
In the three years since then, nearly 25 million credentials have been produced and Mexico’s voter ID card is now widely regarded as one of the most secure, reliable voter identification systems in the world.
So trusted is the integrity of Mexico’s voter ID credential that amid all the controversy surrounding the close presidential election on July 2, 2006, no one questioned the security, reliability, or authenticity of Mexico’s voter identification itself.
Indeed, Mexico’s voter ID has become the country’s de facto identification document and is readily accepted as positive proof-of-identity by merchants, banks, government officials, and citizens nationwide."

It's my opinion that we should communicate to our elected representatives that it's time they ensure
One Citizen, One Vote, and implement Federal, tamper-proof, Voter ID.

7.62, there is a huge difference between buying a gun and voting. I have never in my life owned a gun, and it has made relatively no difference in my life. Having a say in who will be making decisions that affect every aspect of my life, however, has made a huge difference. From the amount of income I make (minimum wage, taxes, job security, etc) to the air I breathe it affects me. I have a right to have a voice in that. I have a valid ID and have voted every 2 years since I was 18. This doesn't affect me personally, but it affects others, those who will have their voice taken from them. And that does affect me if it changes the outcome of the election. This is as much voter fraud as what you argue. If one eligible person isn't able to vote then that gives what I consider to be a fraudulent vote for the other side.

Add to that the trouble and cost of getting to the social security office, if need be, and the DMV and you can see where a lot of people will just say it isn't worth it. I doubt I would go through all this if I didn't have the ID already.

and therein lies THE ENTIRE PURPOSE of this law. Even if they remove all the financial costs associated with obtaining an ID (thereby making it NOT a poll tax, which is clearly illegal) they're hoping that poor, elderly, and college students (i.e., those most likely to not have ID, and they just so happen to primarily vote democratic) will just forego all the hoop jumping and neglect to vote.

I would be in support of these laws if both parties were on board, both parties had viable proof of fraudulent votes being cast, and it was clear that our election procedures needed to be cleaned up.

But as it stands, there is NO evidence of voter fraud suggesting a need for this law, and only one party is pushing hard for these laws when those likely disenfranchised by it typically vote for the other party. It just screams vote suppression and disenfranchisement for personal gain.

Oh, and btw, black box Diebold voting machines are far more dangerous to our democracy and far easier for either party to hack and cheat the vote. Yet I have never once seen a single Republican rail against them and speak of the need for transparent vote counting. I wonder why that is...

government is always the answer, the GOP had no problems using ACORN for their personal/political 'publicity' purposes back then, just ask McCain and Romney.

Thanks Drowning. I think what bothers me the most is the way this is going about. I don't want to see any fraud, and I would be completely in favor of any laws that cut down on it. But if someone goes to the trouble of registering under my dog's name or my dead grandmother's name, so be it. It's the fact that the government is able to convince THE MAJORITY of the people that we need to make it more difficult to vote that gets me angry. They only have to say it is only hurting the lazy welfare people. For some reason the poor have become the villains in our country.

Let's say, for argument's sake, that 1000 votes were fraudulent in PA in each election. Let's say even that each was a vote for the opposing party of my vote. I still would rather that than to have 15000 people who would vote but are not able to because of this law. Everyone needs to have a say. If it were up to me, I would make voting mandatory for all, except for a few exceptions such as felons and those who are mentally unable. That's how important it is to me. If we can go to each and every house for a census, there must be a way to get each and every vote to count and cut out fraud.

These government people are the same people that convinced many that the rich deserve to have huge tax breaks because it gives the rest of us job security. What will they be able to convince these masses of next? We all know Hitler was voted in by the majority by using fear tactics to scare the people. I'm not saying anyone is Hitler, but it shows how powerful fear can be and how easily duped people can be.

For some reason the poor have become the villains in our country.

well don't ya know, according to Wall St.'s excellent financial analysis, poor people caused the great recession in 2007 that we're still currently working our way out of by getting greedy and buying too much home. Dontcha know?

{/sarcasm, as if it isn't dripping from the screen}

These government people are the same people that convinced many that the rich deserve to have huge tax breaks because it gives the rest of us job security.

And that's why I can't support this current push for voter ID laws. I've learned through experience to not trust the messengers who are calling for these restrictions, they're motives are never pure (and this case is no different).

Again, if congress had mountains of evidence of rampant voter fraud occurring over the last decade or so of elections, and there was a bipartisan stance calling for increased election security, i'd hop on board. But it's only the GOP, led primarily by freshmen Tea Party governors, screaming for the need for this legislation, and I don't trust that crowd as far as I could throw it with my offhand...

{And for laugh value, I'll repeat what I stated above. In the absence of evidence of vote fraud, these voter ID laws belong with other pressing issues of the day such as leash-laws for unicorns and anti-end-of-the-rainbow litter laws for leprechauns...}

You can't even quantify voter fraud unless every state has an I.D. requirement, which they all should. Why would anyone want to allow even the opportunity for voter fraud unless they are trying to pull something? How do you even go through life without a photo i.d.? If you have nothing to hide this no worse than trying to get on an airplane and I have yet to hear a single complaint from anyone about potential flyer disenfranchisement due to an i.d requirement.

Pgulrich, Im sorry but that is just ridiculous. Requiring ID isn't going to prove voter fraud anymore than not requiring it. I imagine voter fraud does happen, on both sides. I just don't think this will stop it. And the same ones who will be disenfranchised will probably never get the opportunity to get on an airplane. They are more concerned with getting a meal on the table than getting to the Bahamas.

Don't you remember ACORN signing up a bunch of phony names to vote?

Don't you know the difference between registering and actually voting? Did anyone show up to use those phony names at the voting booth? No.

Interesting how no one mentioned Obama going to court to deny the military their constitutional rights of three days to either vote in person or by absentee ballot. Obama wants to keep the military from voting.

10,000 dead people were discovered on voter rolls in Virginia, Florida ignored Holder and also found lots of dead 'voters' on their rolls. There is an ongoing voter fraud scandal in Miami, Sheila Jackson Lee's district in Houston is awash in voter registration fraud and now non-citizens have been voting in Iowa.

The only one's against voter ID are those who wish to perpertrate voter fraud. Almost 80% of Americans favor some form of voter ID. The only one's against it are the DOJ under Holder, Obama and La Raza and LULAC and groups of that ilk.

Sorry, there is indeed voter fraud, voter registration fraud and Holder has made it a point to not address those issues. Note that he dismissed the voter intimidation charges against the New Black Panthers, even though they had been found guilty. Then, when you have Obama seeking to deny the military their opportunity to vote, perhaps you see a pattern here? It ain't about 'disenfrachised voters' it is about padding voter rolls rather than having a true election.

http://www.truethevote.org/news

Those of you who don't understand the purpose of voter registration and why keeping those rolls current and accurate is important need to grow a brain.

How am I supposed to get photo id's now so my dogs could vote?!?! This is unconstitutional!!!!!!

sarcasm btw.

NEVER underestimate the Republicans ability to steal an election.

mygirl1:

You are flat out lying.

The three extra days that the military can vote will be extended to everyone. That means it will be easier to vote. For everyone.

My gosh you libs are pathetic - Requiring an ID "suppresses the poor and minorities!" How hard is it to get a freakin' ID?!? Here it is, very simply -when you vote, you need to prove it's really you. Yeah, can really see how that is suppressing people. Libs just aint smart

Interesting how no one mentioned Obama going to court to deny the military their constitutional rights of three days to either vote in person or by absentee ballot. Obama wants to keep the military from voting.

More lies, mygirl. Makes one ask the question "is she stupid, or is she paid to publish this bullsh!t?"

The left still hasn't made the argument for not having a photo ID to vote. Seems that we need one for practically everything else we do in our everyday life for interacting with the government or in the private sector.

american, I have to show my ID so infrequently that it usually surprises me when I am asked for it. Occasionally when I use my credit or debit card, but not usually. Unfortunately, can't say I've been carded to have a drink in too long. Never showed ID for a lottery ticket, they even have machines to buy them from. I imagine if I went to my bank and wanted to take a large sum of cash from my account I hope they would. But all in all, I probably only show it 2 or 3 times a year. I can see how one could easily get by without it. And when I vote, I have only ever needed it after moving and voting at a new location. After that they always just compare my signature. And I live in PA. I can't say for sure that requiring ID would stop someone from voting under someone else's name, but I never felt it would be easy to do.

pedestrianmikilt et al: Before you accuse me of lying you should educate yourselves. You skim the surface and rush to judgement without any clue as to the issues at hand. You and most of the mainsteam media are quick to rush into battle, brain in neutral, mouth's wide open and your pants tangled around your ankles.

There are two sides to a lawsuit, you only hear the Obama side, which is not surprising. Doubt you will take the trouble to read the contra injuntion from the defendants but I will post it for you. Then I will await your (non-forthcoming) apologies.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/102030297/defendants-memorandum-contra-plaintiffs-motion-for-preliminary-injunction

A "legal" voter is one who has not been stripped of their right to vote. Only convicted felons lose their right to vote. Whether and how they get their rights reinstituted depends on the state in which they live. It varies and one would have to check with the state they were convicted in to find out how to proceed.

mygirl, unlike you, I am educated in the matter of Obama SUPPORTING extended voting hours for not only the military, but all voters affected by the attempted voter suppression actions in this state. Therefore, you are LYING. Again. How you can even look yourself in the mirror is a mystery.

Apparently you didn't read the document. As to the mirror, it is just fine, the more important question is how you continue to defend Obama.

Yes, I read it. Unlike you, I actually understood it. You've let your hate blind you.

no problem with voting for 200 years and now that they are close races you want id????

I find it strange to not want to present you I D, unless you are cheating

It's not the inability to provide ID, it's limiting the acceptable forms of ID that is wrong.

Lets go all the way, A National ID card like the military CAC card, and we could call it "The Freedom Card" which would contain all your records (tax, medical, educational, financial / social security). To vote, you just insert the card, if your in another state at college, it brings up your district and you can only vote for those canidates. Go to any hospital, it brings up your medical records for the doctor to look at. To those that don't know what a CAC card is, besides an ID card, it is required to long on DoD computer system - can't be hacked - unless you give away your pin and password.

If your here illegally, you don't receive the card.

And in about five to ten years - it will happen, surprised it hasn't happened yet.

This ill judge will be at the GOP Convention with his support !!!!!!!!

al-2891335

I find it strange to not want to present you I D, unless you are cheating.

Same goes for a candidate's tax returns.

AL, that would solve some problems but brings up others. Soon you would be required to carry the card at all times, and they would be stopping people at checkpoints to "show your papers," especially if you are brown. We are going to have to decide if that is really the kind of country you want.

Paul, over the past 200 years either the people at the poll knew the voters or votes were bought with beer and whiskey. And people voted for dead people or just voted over and over.

And jock, I guess you're against drivers' licenses and of course don't use your credit card if you have to show i.d., and you never, ever apply for food stamps or welfare. Oh, and you take no Medicaid or Medicare or private insurance but simply pay up front at the doctor's to avoid showing i.d. Right?

@AL,"The Freedom Card"? Really?

@rachel, I've been voting for many years now, before any I.D. was required. I never knew the people at the polls, never had my vote bought with whiskey or beer, never voted for dead people(?), and never voted more than once. So your either/or scenario has definitely not existed for the past 50 years (and yet we've still been o.k.)

Also, Jock is not saying he is against showing I.D. However, I can go an entire day, several even, without ever showing anyone any form of I.D. The problem is if that I.D. is required to be with you at all times (no one is currently required to carry I.D., except brown people in Arizona.) That's when we start thinking "police state."

You mean the maybe once a year it's needed to vote? Or the every day need if you're driving? Are you just that dumb? And as far as your personal history is concerned, look up "example of one."

Paul, sweetheart, close races make it all the more critical that only citizens vote. Why would you object? That's like objecting to the police stopping people from robbing you now when they got away with it before.

These people are robbing you of the importance of your vote as a citizen by diluting it with non-citizen votes.

rachel,

When have these non-citizens voted? There has been no record of that occurring.

And as for my "example of one," you're saying that, besides me, everyone else has known the people at the polls, had their vote bought with whiskey or beer, voted for dead people, or voted more than once.

Does that include you? For shame.

hambone, your name says it all. You have literally no reasoning power.

"Is needed"?

Kind of like the guy ripping up pieces of paper in the city park to keep the elephants away - sho' nuf, there were no elephants.

And thank you for pointing out that the law doesn't stop the real fraud that will continue unabated. You make an excellent case for the real purpose of the law.

sure enough 'is needed', to many laws being created by the nonsense spouted out by the leftist since obama was elected, this all needs to stop.

The only thing I can thank obama for is pointing out how vicious and stupid the governments have grown, democrat or republican. It reall makes me believe like a libertarian, just not there yet.

They need to either enforce all the laws or repeal all the laws they dont want, obama seems to want to skip congress all together, he need to be replaced or impeached.

Ryan rides on top of Romney's go kart to the White House !!!!!!!!!

I am liberal and appreciate how this law may impact low income and elderly voters.

However, I have also worked the polls on election day. This law makes complete sense-as it will address people who vote several times for family they know aren't going to vote and dead people. When all you need to do is give your name to the well intentioned 90 year old working there and sign the book-can people really not see how easy it os to vote mutiple times?

One thing that this does not address is people who vote at the polls and via absentee ballot-they don't remove the names of people when the receive their votes in the mail.

I very much understand why people are agaginst this-but feel that their time would be better spent working to get those who do not have id's to get them than fighting something that is kind of common sense.

No one is saying anyone can't vote. They just want to make sure you are who you say. How does that not make sense?

People who are registered at multiple places.

I worked the polls her in FL for several elections, and one requirement for anyone to vote was a PICTURE I.D., never had to turn anyone away. I fail to see the problem with having to show a picture I.D. As far as college students not having picture I.D.s, it's always been my understanding that colleges issue I.D.s to the students.

Do you miss your regular showers with Sandusky?

paid, you mean another win for re-districting facists?

And yet, paid, you'd think it was communists who would want to take away the right to vote. But all along, it was the Republicans. Who'd have thought?

Except no ballot stuffing has been proven to exist.

Another blow against freedom by the lying fascist conservatives.

Are there any Democrats/Liberals who are intelligent enough to come up with an original thought? Or, do they all resort to name-calling?

Name calling, examples of one, "we haven't looked for it so we haven't found it but that proves it doesn't exist"...

Anything but a logical reason not to make people prove they have the right to vote, like they prove they have the right to drive, or get welfare or food stamps. Oh, oops, non-citizens can do the last two so why not give them ALL the rights of citizens?

Ballot stuffing like the locked bag of ballots that had the holes in it in Wisconsin?

imnodumas,

Not only did I not use any names, but the O.P. called Democrats/Liberals "communists". So who's resorting?

rachel,

I proved my right to vote when I registered. Why do I have to do it again?

I did not say a thing about democrats, never mentioned them.

But, for some reason they feel as if I "outed" them by using the word "communists".

When I picked on communists,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"democrats" got upset. They felt the need to stand up for their kindred spirits and go after a person who dared to question their manifesto.

Then they launch their typical pathetic attack of "name-calling", accusing others of committing the same crimes they do and blaming others for their failure.

It's all they really have,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,kind of sad.

Not easily obtained.

mugtech what is difficult about it?

tlb1974

mugtech what is difficult about it?

Have you ever been to a DMV in a densely populated city? They are incredibly slow.

Secondly, there are only 5 DMV centers in the entire City of Philadelphia (Population of 1.5M people).

They estimate that there are 750,000 people in the Commonwealth that will be impacted by this law, lets say that 40% live in Philly...that's 300,000 people that will need to get a valid ID between now and Nov. 5th.

Not saying it's impossible, but 300,000 voter IDs, in 5 offices, in 11 weeks is approximately 1,000 people per office, per day....which further equates to 2 IDs per minute.

Factor in the hundreds of people that will need to use the DMV for non-ID related issues and you are going to have frustratingly long lines, and likely a lot of otherwise legal & eligible voters that will decide it's not worth it.

When I got married I didn't change my social security to my new name for a while, because of the hassle. When I finally did, I swore I would never change it again. In order to get an ID in PA you need a social security card (which I didn't have the card for close to 20 years as I had lost it and I didn't need one until I changed my job). You also need to forms of proof of residency. What about someone who doesn't have the lease or electric bill or phone bill or anything in their name. I know of a number of older women who had everything in their husband's name, or young people who never had a place of their own. You also need an original birth certificate. How many drug addicted parents do you think kept their kid's birth certificate safe for their child. Now that child needs it to vote. Again, it's a hassle to get it. If they don't have it, they need to fill out a form to get it, which requires all sorts of info about parents. I had trouble when I filled mine out, and my parents are both alive and still married. There is nothing easy about it.

everyone knows this is republoconsim to keep poorer people from voting, look what they are doing in Ohio

GOP judge rubber stamps I.D. TeaCon Law for the 1% !!!!!!!!

Boy oh boy, oh boy, talk about lazy democrats that cant get off the couch and get an ID which they should have gotten years ago.

Then you dont deserve to vote, and probably never have.

In Colorado it is $11.00 to get a State I.D. However, if you do not have a birth certificate, and many elderly do not, you cannot get an I.D. If the state has a birth certificate for you it is another $17.00.

Pennsylvania could not prove there was voter fraud, but still it new law was upheld by a judge. Shame on him/her.

Most of the voter fraud were Republicans and some of them are in jail.
Don't ask me for a link because just google it.

I think it is time for us to take our country back from those who wants to take away rights that we have already fought and won. And, then, after we take our country back, I think we should go forward...always forward, never back.

Republican or Democrat if you know an elderly or someone who have no means to get the I.D. please drive them to the place in your state where they can be obtained. If you know of anyone who cannot get the funds needed perhaps a couple of dollars would help. There are just as many elderly and poor Republicans as there are Democrats. We have all lost a lot of rights since 2001, perhaps we need to get them back.

Obama/Biden 2012

You know, jb, it may not be just lazy democrats. What about the 65 year old woman who was taken care of by her husband all her life and has nothing in her name. She is almost for sure a republican. And not lazy since I'm quite sure she kept her house immaculate and had dinner on the table for him all those years. Yes I do know people like that. And she would most likely not vote the same as me. But she still should be able to have her vote count. Why don't you take time try to imagine life from someone else's point of view. Oh, I guess you're too busy working hard, only taking those few minutes to sit at your computer reading articles and reading through all the comments so you can respond.

Thanks for pointing that out about the fraud slightly, I was thinking too of the stories I've heard about people getting phone calls that the election was moved to the next day, or that if you voted in the primary your vote is already counted in the general and so you don't need to vote again. This was done by republicans. I guess that's just part of the game, all's fair. I know Dems do the same sort of thing. There should be laws against it, but I know that was voted down. That is more troubling to me than someone voting as Scruffy, my dog.

well LA9999, you sound like my kids, always an excuse. Trust me when you reach 65 there is no excuse. The wife you talk about most likely drove a car, cashed a check, and interfaced with schools, etc, all of them demanding ID's at certain times.

I am ove 65, i hear the same excuses from my grand children, turns out they usually have an alterior reason, so they lie, making some lame excuse, as you are.

Well jb, I have no excuse either as I do vote regularly. And if your people ever try to take that from me, you can be sure I will fight like he!! to stop them. But I try to look at other scenarios. My sister-in-law's mother was that way, although I'm pretty sure she does have ID and she did hold a part-time job at one point. But what if she didn't have it? I think voting is one of the most important things I can do, but not everyone is that passionate. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't have a voice. And to try to take that voice in an important election year is just wrong. I'm glad you are responsible and this doesn't affect you either as your voice counts too. But if just one person can't get the documents together in time to vote, it is wrong. There is no difference between having someone vote using my dog's name (whcih they would have fake ID for anyway) and having someone who wants to vote and is eligible not be able to because of strict ID laws,m except that the one using my dog's name is a criminal and the ones who restricted an eligible voter are politicians. I guess I was right in the first place, there is no difference.

Photo IDs are NOT free and they are NOT easily obtained. The GOP has seen to both.

Another blow against freedom by the lying fascist conservatives.

LA99999, are you a hired schill for the democrats? You say, 'what if negative this?' or 'what if negative that?' you can always make up some story to back up your beliefs when you dont want to believe.

If this was a 3rd world country, you might have a case, but this is the USA. Like it or not from birth to death (of course unless you are here illegally) you are required to have an ID. You rent an apt, you need an ID. you get welfare, you need an id. you want to drive, cash a check, go to school, see a doctor, get a job, you need an id. In fact you wanted to get beer in high school, you probably had a fake ID.

Problem with a fake ID it will get you caught some time. And if they ever start enforcing the illegal alien laws, they will get caught, also.

Alverant, you are definitely a democratic schill. go somewhere else...

Wow! I can't believe I was finally called a democratic schill. Is this a first for you too Alverant?

Thanks jb. No I never had a fake ID, just friends. It (having friends) comes from trying to see things from another's perspective. But I imagine you always did everything by the book. Good for you.

As I stated in an earlier post I worked the polls here in FL where it is required to show a picture I.D. to vote. I know of no one that was ever denied their voting rights. In fact, we even let people vote who can't read English, they are allowed to bring an interpreter (who can have them vote the way he/she wants them to). As long as they have a valid picture I.D.

I have to show an id to vote in California. Having to show an id is not a bad idea, but it should be phased in during years when there are no elections. That would be fair.

This big rush for id while closing down DMVs in Democratic areas is rotten republicon strategy.

Wakeup are you taking drugs or are you just so full of yourself you can think past your over inflated sense of grandure? You think it's no big deal for a disabled VET in a wheel chair to travel 25 miles a get a state ID? You are not only a m@ron but a total ID10T!

So disabled VETS don't have any ID's? That seems strange. Haters pouring in from the Left. Gotta love it. Squid's on a roll (great name, by the way). So, if someone won't find a way to get to one of 70 offices to get an ID, how are they going to get to the voting both? Sorry I'm such an idiot, it's just that darn common sense thing again. Perhaps you can help me out here Squid.

As as disable vet, . You should have a VA card with a photo.

VA gives you them for the VA system. I know because I have one.

Squid...I am sure WakeUp didn't realise there are those who have a hard time gettng their id, just like you didn't mean to start name calling.

Peace....

If you are as you say a disabled Vet than you have a military ID which is an acceptable ID. Just saying it doesn't have to be a state ID, just a valid ID.

No, Blue, I'm pretty sure that Squid meant to start name-calling, but that's ok. As much of an idiot and moron as I am, I do in fact realize that some in our society have mobility and transportation issues. I also understand that these same people find ways to overcome those limitations on a daily basis and am confident that they can do so with regard to obtaining an ID if necessary. I, for one, would be glad to take a disabled vet (or anyone for that matter) to get an ID. - even if I knew they were going to vote against "my guy". I'm sure many others would be glad to help too.

Disable vets have I'D's. Most of them have retired military I'D's. They don't just walk into the Va hospital without an I'D.

As as disable vet, . You should have a VA card with a photo. VA gives you them for the VA system. I know because I have one.

Baloney! I worked the polls in Indiana last year and rules said a photo ID must show a valid and current expiration date. We had a retired vet come in to vote. His military ID did not have an expiration date because he was retired and the ID was for life.

Because of disabilities, his wife did the driving and had a valid ID. She voted but we had to turn the vet away. He said he had been voting since he was old enough to do so.

The need for a photo ID is an unnecessary law. There have been a minuscule number of illegal votes cast over a period of decades. I believe the number of people who can't vote will vastly outnumber any illegal votes cast.

And please don't compare this to the fact that you must have a photo ID to cash a check or buy a house or any number of other comparisons. Cashing a check, buying a house or renting a car are not guaranteed by the constitution. Voting is!

And then there are those who say just cast an absentee ballot. Wait a minute. You're saying you can cast an absentee ballot without a photo ID. How can that be?

And after more than 200 years of expanding voter rights in this country, what's with the sudden need for voter IDs?

THESE ARE UNNECESSARY LAWS!

Excellent samdaman... excellent!

The Constitution does not currently guarantee the right to vote. Below are summaries of decisions from two Supreme Court cases. I am surprised people don’t remember Bush v Gore.

• The majority of the U.S. Supreme Court, in Bush v. Gore (2000), wrote, "The individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States." The U.S. is one of only 11 other democracies in the world with no affirmative right to vote enshrined in its constitution.
• In its 2000 ruling, Alexander v Mineta, the Court affirmed the district court's interpretation that our Constitution "does not protect the right of all citizens to vote, but rather the right of all qualified citizens to vote.” And it's state legislatures that wield the power to decide who is “qualified.”

House Joint Resolution 28 (Introduced by U.S. Rep Jesse Jackson Jr., March 2005) is a proposed amendment to establish a constitutional right to vote in America. http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.J.RES.28:

How do you catch voter fraud unless you actually ID the people voting? Is your idea of enforcement just hoping that people who voted fraudulently will confess to it? Sounds like a winner of an idea. Remember how ACORN signed up a bunch of phony names? Do you really think such an upstanding organization wouldn't go a step further and actually vote using those names?

Well how do you know cicadas aren't planning to take over the Earth as they congregate underground unless you dig up all the ground to see what they are doing? Break out the bulldozers, grab some tax payers money, we'll have to go on a cicada quest before it's too late!

Acorn resulted in ZERO fraudulant votes. A step further....a ...a conspiracy?

Maybe one of your mind!

Looks like Squids the one on drugs. Calm down Squid. I remember the first time I dropped acid too. It wasn't cicadas I saw. It was more like giant praying mantis' with, like Barbie Doll heads or something. Really freaky, but it passes.

Hang in there, brother. And, be sure to Vote in November.

So squid, by using your logic, I have an idea. Home burglaries are pretty rare. Therefore no one should be allowed to have locks on their doors because that disenfranchises people who may need to enter your home for legitimate reasons such as firefighters, police, mailman, etc. Then we should make it public that we are now instituting an ordinance that forces all people to remove locks from the doors to their homes. Based on your ideas home burglaries shouldn't rise. Great idea Squid!

Remember how ACORN signed up a bunch of phony names? Do you really think such an upstanding organization wouldn't go a step further and actually vote using those names?

The phony voter REGISTRATIONS were caught and reported by Acorn itself and the perpetrators were fired. In other words, Acorn policed it's own hired voter registration people and acted accordingly, as the law required. At least you, unlike so many RWers seem to acknowledge the difference between registration fraud and voter fraud. You can speculate all you want on what could of happened, but that's not a reasonable basis for enacting any law in this country.

Dog,

That is not the point of the example. The point is that phony registrations have happened and that this is a way to prevent further potential fraud! People need valid ID for just about everything these days from driving to cashing checks or opening a bank account. Those who live off the grid intentionally tend not to vote because it would mean acknowledging their existence to a government entity that they are trying to hide from. everyone else should have no problem complying with this law and the cost for enforcement should be rather small. After all the people at the polls will be there whether or not they are checking for valid ID.

What is the voter fraud that you complain about? I've heard about people using a dead person's name, I've heard about using pets' names. You think the people who fill out the voter registration for these fraudulent votes won't just think to get a fake ID? Ask anyone under the age of 21 how difficult it is to get a fake ID. If I didn't have a valid ID now I think I would probably go online and get a fake anyway. It's a lot easier (and possibly cheaper in the long run) than to jump through hoops to get a valid one. How is this going to stop fraud?

arcangel, don't you know the difference between voter registration and actually voting? Also don't you know that these voter IDs are not free and as such constitute a poll tax, something that is ILLEGAL in this country? I guess breaking the law is OK if it supports conservatives.

if there is only 4 cases in 25 years i think that tells the story.whats funny about this it's only in the states the republicans control. if that does not tell you a story then nothing does. fixing a problem that has never existed, or is the real problem the fear of losing an election which imo you have woke a sleeping dog. stupid is that stupid does. they have now motivated a people who may not have voted to make sure they vote, i pity those who thought they could suppress a people.

Squid, just how is this a tax on the poor?

You too, are an IDIOT! This could actually disenfranchise 9% of PA voters and (because other states have done the same thing) disenfranchise millions of voters nationwide. Further, there is actually NO PROBLEM. This is a law without a purpose. In the 2008 elections, only 9 cases of in person voting fraud were discovered nationwide. Voter registration fraud and absentee ballot fraud are actually larger problems and this law doesn't address that. I'm hoping some federal court will strike this down.

Disenfranchise 9% of PA voters? Are you serious? Those 9% can easily go get an ID like every other citizen of this country can. If they don't then that is on them, no one else. And, yes I have seen that study and it is complete BS. They only Found that many cases means the study was unable to find voter fraud, not that it didnt exist. Voter Fraud happens more often than most people would like to believe. 9 cases nation wide is hysterically low and completely false. For you to believe that just shows that you sir are the IDIOT.

Travis

It seem that Chris Mathews disagrees with your "there is actually NO PROBLEM." statement.

MATTHEWS: Because they—and I know this goes on. It has gone on in old-time politics. It has gone on since the ‘50s that I know about.
People call up, see if you voted or you‘re not going to vote. The, all of a sudden, somebody does come and vote for you. This is an old strategy in big city politics.
BROWNE-DIANIS: Well—
MATTHEWS: I know all about it in North Philly. It‘s what went on. And I believe it still goes on. The question is, can we correct it without screwing up our system?
I want people to vote, that‘s the number one goal. But I also want to make sure people don‘t cheat. So, let‘s get out of here.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43844212/ns/msnbc-hardball_with_chris_matthews/t/hardball-chris-matthews-wednesday-july/#.UCvAsqDAGso

Then there is the case of Lessadolla Sowers. An Executive Committee member of the NAACP in Tunica County Miss.

After two days of testimony and an hour of deliberation, a Tunica County jury returned a guilty verdict in the case against community activist Lessadolla Sowers.
Sowers was convicted of 10 counts of voter fraud and was sentenced to five years for each count. Circuit Court Judge Charles Webster ordered Sowers to serve her terms concurrently with no possibility of parole.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/peter-roff/2011/07/29/despite-what-democrats-claim-voter-fraud-is-real

Now that are lots more cases. Like in Troy,NY. ,Milwaukee,Wis. or Galveston County, Texas.

I'm still wondering how this disenfranchises voters. Are these people only allowed out of the house once in a year so if they go get their free ID, they won't be able to vote. Instead of telling me that it will do this, please explain to me how it does this. And they get mad when we call them sheep.

Travis,

Are you stupid or just naive...do you R-E-A-L-L-Y believe 9% of eligible voters don't have I.D.? That's such a ridiculously phony, made up figure it defies logic.

The poor don't have driver's license? They don't have welfare cards? They don't have school I.D.? To say they are law abiding citizens without any form of I.D. and no way of obtaining it is asinine. Only non eligible voters will be "disenfranchised" as they rightly should be!

@Travis.... that's 9% of the remaining people who don't have an ID... yet 45% don't even show up to vote.... so take 45% of 9% and you're left with this disenfranchised amount you're talking about.

proudoftheusa: No you are not.

How can you say they had the same opportunity to get an ID when it costs money and the places where you can get IDs are spread out over the state and some people are too far away to easily get there?

Voter IDs are a poll tax, plain and simple. That makes them illegal.

Seems this judge would fit in nicely circa 1940 Mississippi. I myself heard that state senator say the reason for the law was to make it possible for Romney to win. Lie , cheat , steal seems like the norm. They don't even suppress voters in third world countries like this. Remember Pharoah cursed the people of Israel and the curse rebounded. Wrong-doing always rebounds. We should have learned that from eight years of Bush/Cheney.

hahahaha, really? You think people need an ID to get cigarettes? Am I the only one who got alcohol from friends when I was underage? I guess all those 14 year olds I see smoking have a legitimate ID then.

I am not against requiring ID, but only if it is:

1. Universal on a federal level. Each state requires or accepts the same forms of ID.

2. Picture Id's are provided to all registered voters. It must be free and it must be easy to access.

I like that LA, but in your case, 14 year olds smoking and you getting alcohol while underage would be like fraud in this case.

I forgot to add, I like your two points. If you don't have a DL, you should be able to get a state/federal issued ID free of charge.

You're right Jackal, but my point is that if someone wants to get a pack of cigs without legitimate ID, they will get it. And if someone wants to vote illegally, they will no matter the law. Those are the ones who will get fake ID's and get out and vote fraudulently. This law only hurts those who are eligible but don't have the necessary documents available.

This is a voter suppression law simply because it should not be enacted in an election year. Many people are not aware of this and will get turned away when they try to vote. It needs to be done next year or last year, not this year, and both parties need to be involved.

miklkit> Golly, someone with intelligence. Thank you.

It was signed in March though so why didn't those people start getting their IDs. Its just like shipping things for Christmas, everyone waits for the last second and then complains about the long line at the post office when they know they should've done it weeks ago.

Jackal, does that mean they shouldn't be allowed to ship their package? Being a procrastinator doesn't mean they shouldn't be given a voice.

Voting is a constitutional right. Getting a pack of smokes is not. See the difference?

It's time for the churches znd community groups to organize and make sure these cretins don't win. First they take your vote. What do you think is next.

LA, I'm not saying that. I was responding to miklkit saying that there wasn't enough time to get the free government issued ID before the election. I want them to vote. I just don't think using the excuse of not having enough time is legitimate since they've known about this since March. Sorry to you for not conveying that point completely.

50? That's about your IQ With only 4 cases of voter fraud in 20 years it seems you've been drinking the ale again. You mean to say those four votes might be rigging elections?

Squid...stop being so angry. People are just trying to get thru this w/o any problems...which, of course, we all know won't happen. Someone is going to yell "cheat" and someone else who died last year will be voted into office...and before you call me names, it HAS happened.

You know you can use that anger you have and help get people to vote...no matter who it is for...or do anything you want...just try and be nice, ok? Everyone here needs to be nice. We are all in this mess together.

Dan, People didn't used to have cars to drive them to the polling place, absentee ballots, etc so you must think that everyone else in history was died or abridged their right to vote also. Grow up, we are talking about getting a simple ID, not climbing Mt Everest. Progressives have turned us into a nation of wusses. Sorry, not everyone deserves a trophy for trying. Voter fraud is not phantom, there are documented cases. Remember all the fake names that ACORN signed up to vote? Very convenient if you don't have to show an ID to vote using those fake names don't you think?

Sure is says so. But read it again... It says the right of the US citizens. it doesn't say that illegals have right to vote, or Green Card holders have right to vote. So how do you suppose we make sure that only US citizens vote? Honor system? Get real. Even showing ones ID doesn't solve the problem, because there are many legal residents live in this country (Green Card, working visa, student visa) who can obtain a driver's license. But at least ID law might prevent some of them from registering and voting. BTW, all civilized countries in the World require ID to vote. And most of them have no or minimal number of illegals. I'm sure you love your European socialism. So lets embrace their voting rules too.

Making sure a registered voter gets to cast that vote is NOT trashing the constitution.

The only time someone doesn't want to show an id is usually when they have something to hide in the first place.

I am also allow to bear arms - betcha I'll have to show id though!!!!

alright gonna post this again cause the one were i responded was collapsed.

voter fraud is non-existent in Pennsylvania hell the National Republican Lawyers Association could not find one count of voter fraud in the state of Pennsylvania and only found around only 380 counts of voter fraud over the past ten years in the entire nation. these laws don't even actually help prevent voter fraud because if they were so determined to commit fraud they would just make a fake I.D. and it doesn't even adress voter registration fraud which is a much bigger problem. this is from the guys DEFENDING the law. of course republicans don't give a damn because it will lower voter turnout among college students minorities and the elderly who all voted mostly in favor of obama in the last election or are at least predicted to vote for him now.

you are more likely to be attacked by a shark or struck by lightning then to commit voter fraud.

in Florida voter I.D. laws would reduce voter turnout by 20%(mostly among once again the elderly minorities and college students) to reduce the number of voter fraud which turned out to only be a minuscule .00004% of the vote. that isn't even enough to affect the final percent. so please continue to delude yourself into believing these laws help reduce voter fraud even though it only reduces the number of potential obama votes.

Thank you have a great Wednesday.

I'D's should be required for everything.

Dan,

In what way does this law take away or impede the right to vote? Obtaining an ID is not all that difficult or costly. There are also absentee ballots that can be used if the person is too sick or disabled to get to a voting place and those do not require ID just a sworn statement that you are who you say you are. Sorry but this argument doesn't wash. The law is in accordance with constitutional requirements for allowing all legal citizens to vote so therefore the law is constitutional. remember the recent decision issued on Obamacare, Judge Scalia said that it is the mandate of the court to find ways to interpret a law to fit within the constitution not find ways to negate the law. His reasoning is sound and based on the premise that laws that are passed are the will of the people and unless they are in total conflict with the constitutional processes, they should stand.

because it will lower voter turnout among college students minorities and the elderly who all voted mostly in favor of obama in the last election or are at least predicted to vote for him now

A college I.D IS accepted...the "elderly" most definitely have a Medicare card...shoots down your silly rantings, doesn't it?

I see a bunch of people throwing out numbers about how many people won't be able to vote because of these laws. I'm still waiting for proof that says those people aren't able to obtain the proper forms of ID before November.

Jackal, where is the proof that this law will stop voter fraud. I'd say we could prove our point before you can prove yours. And it should be proven it will stop voter fraud before it is made a law. Otherwise, it is just another useless law that does more harm than good.

Gregory, all civilized countries in the world have universal healthcare too. I guess you are all for that too. I thought we were supposed to be leading, but if you want to be a follower.

I would absolutely back a plan to prevent voter fraud, but it seems to me the problem lies in voter registration rather than at the polls. If someone wants to get a fake ID in the name of Fido Smith, they will get it, it isn't that hard. Let's do this the right way. Have it covered on a federal level and make sure all eligible voters are able to vote conveniently.

A ridiculous statement. The constitution does not allow non-citizens to vote (and certain other groups like felons) otherwise the polls would be clogged with foreign nationals trying to influence the outcome of American elections. To determine eligibility, you have to have some form of I.D. This is not a complicated concept and is not even a partisan issue as the fraud could come from a member of any party (or no party at all)..

You're right pgulrich. But, even as you just stated, the problem is with the registration and proving eligiblilty. It isn't at the voting booths. It seems to me, if they truly want to stop voter fraud, they would be better off checking one's eligibility before sending them a voting card. I work in a financial institution and we can tell within minutes (and in fact it is now the law to check) whether the social security number is that of a dead person, a minor, or is not yet in use. We can tell when it was issued and in what state. Why can't they do that when someone registers to vote.

Again, this law will not prevent fraud, but it will take away the rights of some to vote. What will be next and where is your personal line drawn? How about requiring a fingerprint check at the voting booth? How about requiring a microchip to be allowed to vote?

We have a couple older people who refuse to show ID at our financial institution, even to a newer employee. They argue about privacy. They will not want to show their ID. I wonder if they will be refused their right this year or if the people at the voting booth will let them vote.

Dan...your pic on here is creeping me out...I hate dolls...especialy ones that talk...(well, you know what mean)....

LA, making people show proof of who they are to vote using a photo ID (and there is even a special ID for someone that has religious views that keep them from being photographed). I'm sure that will help stop fraud. And those people that keep stating there has been only like 4 cases or whatever, those are the found cases. I'm sure most people don't believe that all law breakers are caught. Most fraud takes place when people will call the groups of people less likely to vote and see if they are voting, if they say no, then those groups go in and act like they are that person to vote for them. That stuff isn't documented because the people that aren't voting don't know someone has voted for them.

For on thing voting is a right guaranteed by the Constitution. The other things you mentioned are not. Also there is no proof of a voter fraud strategy apart from what exists in the delusional minds of conservatives.

Those little facts throws a couple of monkey wrenches into your voter supression strategy.

The Constitution does not currently guarantee the right to vote. Below are summaries of decisions from two Supreme Court cases. I am surprised people don’t remember Bush v Gore.

• The majority of the U.S. Supreme Court, in Bush v. Gore (2000), wrote, "The individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States." The U.S. is one of only 11 other democracies in the world with no affirmative right to vote enshrined in its constitution.
  • In its 2000 ruling, Alexander v Mineta, the Court affirmed the district court's interpretation that our Constitution "does not protect the right of all citizens to vote, but rather the right of all qualified citizens to vote.” And it's state legislatures that wield the power to decide who is “qualified.”

House Joint Resolution 28 (Introduced by U.S. Rep Jesse Jackson Jr., March 2005) is a proposed amendment to establish a constitutional right to vote in America. http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.J.RES.28

he will lose if people in the military have their way.

What is NEVER mentioned in the press is that Obama's Justice Dept is suing the state of Ohio regarding their policy that allows extra time for active duty military to cast their ballots.

There's a reason it's not mentioned more - it's patently false RW mis-information.

In fact, the Obama campaign was suing to block an Ohio law which restricts a very successful early voting program in the state. The President’s campaign was trying to keep expanded voting rights in place for everyone, military included. So, why am I still so disturbed?

Because Mitt Romney, by supporting the Ohio law that would do away with three days of early voting for all but those covered under the Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voter Act (‘UOCAVA’), is supporting the restriction of voting rights for as many as 913,000 Ohio veterans. This includes military retirees with over 20 years of service and multiple deployments. In short, Mitt Romney supports efforts to make voting more difficult for the very people who have put their lives on the line after swearing an oath to uphold our Constitution and democracy.

Source: John Soltz & Daily Koz

VoteVets has something to say about Romney's support of this disenfranchisement too:

Mitt Romney is trying to restrict voting rights for over 900,000 Ohio veterans (along with every other Ohioan). We need to fight back, to protect our democracy against this horrific move.

The law you have come out in support of would restrict the incredibly successful early-voting program in the state, and specifically do away with voting the weekend before election day, when many working Ohioans chose to vote early. For veterans, many of whom have jobs they cannot leave during a weekday, weekend voting has proved crucial. In 2008, almost a third of Ohio voters used the early voting program, including veterans.

ModifiedDog

thank god you aren't one of the idiots spreadig around the bull@!$%# created by romney.worst presidential candidate in history.

OK, so now Ohioans will have to decide which is more important. To leave work an hour early, if necessary since the polls are open til 7 PM, to vote or to make that hour of pay. That decision rests solely with the individual. If they choose not to take the time off to vote they have decided their individual order of importance and have to live with it. Or they could get up an hour earlier on election day to go vote, if it's not too much trouble.

Voting is not only a right, it is also a responsibility. If a person cannot be inconvienienced enough to go and vote they have no complaint. Don't give me that line about not being able to miss an hours pay, when in a couple of months people will be taking days off to go deer hunting. It's all about priorities.

If you don't exercise your right and responsibility to vote then you lose your right to complain about the outcome.

Victor: You are lying.

The idea is to give those three extra days to vote that the military has to everyone else as well.

Only because you want your own fascist POTUS so you can have a dictatorship.

I'm a little late in responding had housework to do, but, Squidword, I cannot tell by your post if you are for voter I.D. or against it. You seem to be all over the board. But, that is ok. Because you got it right with 22.1 post.

What with Norquist and the do nothing Congress and now the one running who is not for anything and is against everything and his running mate who took advantage of all the "entitlement" when his father died, but is now against the poor elderly (even if you are 50) to have medical. And, all of that combined with a Conservative Supreme Court, yes dictatorship may start in November 2012 if the voters do not get out and vote.

Help your neighbor, a friend, a family member...make sure they have the proper id. A neighbor, a friend, a family member who lay be a few dollars short of an id or needing a aride.

All of American's citizens should be able to vote...Republican and Democrats.

For Shame.

If you need an ID to exercise your right to vote, how about requiring people to have an ID to go to church? Get your facts straight. Obama is neither a criminal nor a socialist.

Nor a leader.

Get real with your arguments, the same documents necessary for social security or assistance are necessary for an ID card! Plus the law excepts a number of different forms of ID from college IDs to Senior center IDs, the only requirement is that they be a picture ID and valid (not expired or altered). The fundamental right to vote is not being limited, nowhere does it say that anyone is barred from voting, they are just required to prove they are who they say they are.

Blah blah blah blah blah, You know you aren't very savy about ht ereal world around you. The USA is one if not the only one tehat doesn't use some oform of voter ID system. i wuol dlove for someone to show me how my states Voter ID law is a bad thing. In 2014 when Obamacare takes full effect everyone will have to have some form of ID just to get medical care. My dotor has already upgraded thier medical computer system to obey the new law. Whenyou go in for care you have to show a valid Photo ID to get service. You right now in PA have to have the same for Welfare, Food stamps and any entilement program so what is the big deal. Also in 2914 in order to Obey Obamacare everyone wil have to have a bank account which you can't get without a voter ID typoe photo ID. The only people that don't want this Law are the Liberals who know they will lose 20% of thier voting base of the Dead and repeat voters.

Sorry it is 2014 not 2914

Virtually every voter i.d. law covers cost of i.d. for economically disadvantaged citizens. Heck they take light bills as form of i.d. hear in Texas. I think the real problem not being discussed is criminal warrants etc. Many people out there want to live underground until they get caught. In Texas you won't gt an idea if you don't pay your traffic tickets or child support etc. You get arrested. Perhaps that might be the true source of the supposed disenfranchisement some people are talking about. Lets be honest. Don't code your words. For me the only people who may be disenfranchised are the dishonest and irresponsible.

angel, you do not have to have the same id for Social Security as for voter id.

Most of the old ones are gone now, but birth certificates were not filed back in the "old" days. My dad was one of them. He needed to get other documents, i.e. affidavits from family, friends, etc. So do not show your ignorance by same such a stupid thing. There are many ways to prove who you are...Bibles, etc. but not accepted at a State ID place.

Well archy, if you need an ID to get social security and medicare, then why not let people use those forms to vote? Why make them buy a whole new ID? Oh wait, I know why this isn't about making sure the only people that do vote are the ones that should, it's about making sure the only people who do vote are the ones who vote the way you want them to!