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Presumptive Republican nominee Mitt Romney and his newly-named running mate, Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan, have made clear that they are doing more than defending their proposed changes to Medicare.
They’re welcoming the debate.
"President Obama is actually damaging Medicare for current seniors. It's irrefutable," Ryan told Fox News in an interview set to air this evening. "And that's why I think this is a debate we want to have, and that's a debate we're going to win."
That's a charge echoed in a new television ad released Tuesday by the Romney campaign, which charges the president with cutting $716 billion from Medicare at the expense of current retirees. (These cuts, which were enacted through health care reform, are largely used to pay for the costs of the new health reform law.)
Justin Sullivan / Getty Images
Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney speaks during a campaign rally at American Energy Corportation on August 14 in Beallsville, Ohio.
The Romney campaign's newfound eagerness to engage President Obama on Medicare appears to draw more from Republicans' 2010 playbook than anything else.
But the strategy raises the question: Can it work -- again -- after Republicans passed the Ryan budget plan in 2011 and 2012?
Reince Priebus, Chairman of the RNC, joins The Daily Rundown's Chuck Todd to talk about Mitt Romney's messaging plan for the GOP Convention and the medicare debate taking place on the 2012 field.
The Romney campaign has gambled that it will.
"You see, when he ran for office he said he’d protect Medicare, but did you know that he has taken $716 billion out of the Medicare trust fund – he’s raided that trust fund – and you know what he did with it? He’s used it to pay for Obamacare – a risky, unproven, federal government takeover of health care," Romney said Tuesday in Ohio. "And if I’m president of the United States we’re putting the $716 billion back."
Going on offense against Obama -- even with a strategy that is now two years old -- might prove to be the best way for Romney to defray the inevitable attacks he invited by adding Ryan, the GOP budget guru, to the ticket.
But arguably the most significant shift in the debate over entitlements during the last two years came in the form of two budgets authored by Ryan in his capacity as chairman of the House Budget Committee. Those proposals call for major changes to Medicare, principally by transforming it into a voucher (or "premium support") program for future retirees who are currently under the age of 55.
Obama Deputy Campaign Manager Stephanie Cutter joins Andrea Mitchell Reports to discuss Medicare and Joe Biden's comments which have drawn criticism from Republicans.
"The truth is that the Romney-Ryan budget would end Medicare as we know it: people with Medicare would be left with nothing but a voucher in place of the guaranteed benefits they rely on today," said Obama campaign spokeswoman Lis Smith. "And they do it all to pay for massive tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires – the very same top-down economic scheme that crashed our economy and devastated the middle class in the first place."
Clouding the matter, though, is Romney's apparent disavowal of elements of Ryan's own plan, despite having previously said that he would sign the Ryan budget into law if it were the plan Congress were to send him.
For instance, Ryan's budget proposals leave in place the $716 billion of cuts to Medicare that Romney has vowed to restore.
The presumptive Republican nominee’s campaign has made clear since Saturday, when Romney formally named Ryan as his running mate, that the two budgets authored by Ryan during his time at the budget committee don’t fully represent Romney’s views.
The candidate himself made that much clear on Monday, when he told reporters in Florida that his own plan for Medicare is “very similar” to Ryan’s, though not exactly the same.
“We haven’t gone through piece by piece and said, ‘Oh, here’s a place where there’s a difference,’” he said, explaining that he couldn’t immediately recall an area of explicit difference.
Former Gov. John Sununu responds to criticism from the Obama campaign about Paul Ryan and his economic vision.
Romney's website saysthat his plan "almost precisely mirrors" a proposal put forward by Ryan and Oregon Sen. Ron Wyden, which would move forward with a premium support plan, but allow future retirees to maintain existing Medicare benefits as an alternative option, but in competition with private plans and with premium levels meant to cover its costs.
But Romney and Ryan, so far, haven't emphasized this alternative, relying instead upon criticizing Obama's own cuts to Medicare.
NBC's Alex Moe contributed
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NEWS HEADLINE: OBAMA FILED AS FOREIGN EXCHANGE STUDENT!
Wouldn't it be a hoot to see that?!
WHAT ROMNEY SAID TODAY, UPDATE TOMORROW!
Which is what we always get.
not at First Read Redsox. What you get at first read is dogs and horses. What unemployment is at 8.3? How say ye! Now what is that about Obama and fiddles again
That hoax email was debunked in 2009 Redsox, now tell us about the email you got from a "Ugandan Prince" and how you are going to be rich if you just do him a favor.
Biden - "They gonna put y'all back in chains"
This coming from an administration and a party that saddled every American man, woman and child with $6 trillion in new debt in under 4 years. To make a racially charged statement like this, and have his campaign lackey defend it, shows how hopeless the Obama campaign has become.
Forrest Grump 2.0
RedSox also tried to push the "fake" social security propaganda as well. He tries so hard, you almost have to feel sorry for him...ALMOST.
ATTN: all Policemen, Firemen, Teachers, hardworking Federal Union members, all you American Women, you of the Gay and Chicano community, all People of Color, and of course all you Independent Undecided voters!!!
Do you really want a Liar, Tax-Cheat, possible Felon, and Pension Fund Thief in the White House?
I certainly don't, and I'm a Republican.
Let's all Freedom Loving Americans make sure we all Vote a straight Democratic ticket, come this November 2012, and make sure once and for all, that we send Mitt Romney and the Republicans "Back to the Dung Heap of History".
RomneyRyan, do you guys ever get tired of twisting people's words around? Can you not comprehend how a sentence goes together and refers to other parts of the paragraph? Can you not read anything in context?
no they cant..but whats bad its the whole tea party ..fielden
The rumor is that his admission records for Occidental shows him to be a foreign exchange student.
FALSE
I do wish you LIARS would get some new lies. This one is really really worn out by now. For anyone who cares about the TRUTH, go to Snopes and read.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/occidental.asp
That's okay. Saturday morning, Romney didn't even know that Ryan wasn't running for president as he introduced him as "the next president of the United States."
hahahahah yep
Nothing ever gets old in the right wing retards echo chamber. Redsox, get your dose of fox neuroleptic Rxn and go to sleep!
Gotta love the GOP lies. The ACA takes the $716Billion from Medicare Advantage plans and uses it to expand coverage for seniors. Thus Obama = more benefits. The Romney/Ryan plan just cuts the benefits to seniors and gives them a voucher which they might be able to use to buy SOME insurance. Thus Romney/Ryan = groupon for benefit cuts. At the same time, Ryan is all for cutting his tax burden to ZERO. And the brain dead GOP supporters are all in tizzie over Paul Ryan and his "let them die" plans.
ZOMBIES for ROMNEY/RYAN 2012
No it was completely and thoroughly debunked as a total hoax, I guess Republicans have a hard time recognizing a hoax, that's why they wind up with candidates like Palin and now Romney.
The Republicans will have a hard time continuing to pedal their hoax about Medicare cuts by Obama when they have included these same cuts in the Ryan budget plan that they love so much. In truth, these cuts were a gradual phase out Medicare Advantage, not a cut to Medicare. Medicare Advantage is a taxpayer rip-off, as it subsidizes private insurance companies to provide essentially the same healthcare services as Medicare at more cost, paid for by the taxpayers. The Republicans are hoping that they can confuse this topic enough to the seniors that they can get away with continuing this hoax. Privatization of Medicare and Social Security is their real plan.
redrockraven -- Agreed. EXCEPT Ryan's plan does not take that savings and roll it back into health care to strengthen these programs. They take that money and use it to give more tax cuts for the rich. And as if that isn't enough insult to injury, he wants to give seniors coupons to try to buy health insurance on their own from the private sector.
In a nutshell, Romney/Ryan want to privatize Medicare (and Social Security) to give more tax cuts to themselves. It's that simple folks.
And anyone who believes those above the age of 55 are safe, think again. Paul Ryan is a radical who has wanted to destroy the New Deal since it's inception -- He is a 1%er who could care less if people have to dumpster dive or if seniors go back to choosing between cat food and heat.
Old news, Jimbo, and stupid news. Try to remember all the way back to 2008 when the messiah introduced Jumpin' Joe as the next president of the United States.
RepublicansForObama-6186389 -- You can add farmers/ranchers suffering from the drought to that list, and all of rural America who depend on the US Post Office, etc. The day the GOP/TP ticket becomes 1%ers who can't even pretend to care about the heartland is the day even the most rightwing conservative has got to say NO to the Robber Barons.
Bob in KC-545426 -- Try to remember all the way back to Goldwater. Ryan is even more radical than Goldwater, who was not a fundamentalist or a neocon. WTF?!
Bruce,
Recently, Obama's roomate at Occidental was supposed to have spilled the beans. I saw someone reference the Blaze on that, so I take note but generally do nothing.
The Roomates at Columbia and Harvard have not surfaced publicly, but the Harvard roomate I do know a reputable business man who has a friend who knows the Harvard roommate. That guy avoids saying anything. What a contrast to others, like Romney who college/highschool roomates/classmates/friends are talking about Romney in both positive and negative terms.
True Patriot
That is your wishful interpretation. In the plan there is no transferr of funds, from off budget to on budget. This makes no sense whatsoever because the whole point of these changes is to keep the funds self-sufficient.
Baseless banter is all you have.
DB Akron -
"I do know a reputable business man who has a friend who knows the Harvard roommate. That guy avoids saying anything."
Talk about baseless banter, or irony...
A new type of Romney flip-flop -- "Ryan's budget proposals leave in place the $716 billion of cuts to Medicare that Romney has vowed to restore."
DB Akron -- You need to educate yourself about Paul Ryan, back to Jack Kemp, back to his insulated rich life and Lord knows what -- You need to research the various versions of Ryan's plans, most of all the failure to balance the budget and WHY -- because of increased spending on defense, but most of all because he doubles-down on the Bush tax cuts for the rich.
This is based on the CBO and other non-partisan third party organizations, not just my opinion. Mathematically it is impossible and why Ryan's plan has been deemed "not serious."
This is an old ploy of bait and switch that has been used many times before to get more breaks for the rich--The most recent was during Dubya. in 2001 they cut income taxes for everyone, with the biggest cuts to the upper rates for the rich. Then in 2003 they passed more breaks on dividends, capital gains, etc. that only benefited the rich.
If you look at a breakdown of deficits, the tax cuts are responsible for more of the deficits than the unpaid wars! It's bad enough to have a plan with tax cuts and not provide details of how those cuts will be paid for -- because it is a great BIG LIE that tax cuts pay for themselves, or that tax cuts for the rich "trickle down" or create jobs--this has been well tested and debunked.
The way Romney and Ryan plan to pay for the tax cuts for the rich is to end tax credits for YOU and others in the middle class and working poor. But even with an end to the child credit, or the mortgage credit, the budget still doesn't balance. That is why they want to cut trust fund programs too. And still the budget doesn't balance.
If you are a true conservative, you would not support any effort that does not reduce the deficit/debt. If you are sane you would not support any cuts to programs like Social Security and Medicare BEFORE seeing the rich share in the sacrifice. If you do, we need to deprogram you from the Ayn Rand brainwashing you have obviously succumbed to.
We've already tried voodoo economics for far too long. It is time to return to the days of peace and prosperity we enjoyed during Clinton. Enough!
In the USA why are people poor? I am and i hear stories all the time about starting with nothing and moving there way up so if we live in a Free USA why are there poor people no one is stopping them no one stopped me? do we have police going around saying no you made enough money you have to stay poor? are there rules for the poor saying they can not make money?is it to hard to make money here unless you have rich parents? becuz i truly started with nothing and i seem to be doing fine right now i make about 50k a year as a laborer and i could make more money but i made a choice not to , i would rather spend time with my kids but to each his own i know if i work longer hours and get a better education then i could make more money but i do not really want to i am Happy so any can make money in this place they just of to work for it Right?
I know a guy that heard about a guy that said he heard about a guy that knew another guy that heard................. Give me break DB.
RedSux -- Seriously? The first comment about an article and it is in no way related to it in any way. You even admit that your statement is just a fantasy ("wouldn't that be a hoot?"). Did you just have that drivel prepared so that you could be the first to post; to be the one that would ruin any possibility of an intelligent conversation?
NEWS HEADLINE: RedSoxRule gets put on ignore by another reader. And my headline is true.
DEmocrats, just remember that these dumb teapugs get out and vote. We need to get as energized as they are and make sure each democrat we know gets to the polling place and votes. We out number them and can get rid of a large bunch of the congressional teapugs if we get out like we did in 08. Don't get overconfident, make sure you vote!!
If you want to hear the self serving philosophy that the Paul Ryan budget is based upon, take a look at this Johnny Carson interview with Ayn Rand in 1967:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXtiDVYvVK8&feature=player_embedded
Buckaroo, I know you post your drivel to stir the pot, but your crap is getting SOOOOO lame.... As someone already posted, every bit of those claims was examined and debunked as part of a similar pattern by the birthers. You know Obama has a lot to defend, but why don't you guys try really asking TRUTHFUL questions instead of all the Limburger/Rove talking points...
deadbeat
The Courts say they are in effect people.
GOP, Ryan, and Romney are making false claim. The savings achieved in Medicare through the Affordable Care Act will help stabilize Medicare by eliminating overpayments to private insurers and slowly phasing in payment adjustments that encourage greater efficiency. As a result, the law extends the life of the Medicare trust fund by eight years and allows seniors to retain all of their guaranteed Medicare benefits. Medicare beneficiaries are already paying less for prescription drug coverage--Pharmaceutical manufacturers are required to provide a 50% discount on prescriptions filled in the Medicare Part D coverage gap. Seniors have already saved $3.5 billion on prescription drug costs thanks to the Affordable Care Act provision and receiving preventive care as a result of the law, while enrollment in Medicare Advantage has increased and premiums have fallen. The law, in other words, does exactly the opposite of Republicans claim: it expands Medicare “as we know it.” ACA do not take money out of Medicare but it stabilize the Medicare program and it adds 8 years to Medicare life, and that is the fact that Republican & Romney try to spin and lie about it.
Romney said on 60 minutes: “My plan for Medicare is very similar to Paul Ryan plan for Medicare" which means it will turn into a coupon, so insurance corporations can increase their bottom line, since they are people, my friends. Under Romney & Ryan medicare plan, seniors and disable would pay $6400 dollars fee out of pocket and receive less medical services.
source: think progress
True Patriot
They only fail based on FAR LEFT writers scewed and and scoffing and false analysis.
How do in know?
The far left does not respect the US Constitution's mandate for the US constitution and flagrantly blames defense spending as the cause of deficits.
Defense spending in 16% of budget or $528 Billion. If you cut all of the military, you still have a budget deficit. If you cut the military budget too much, you will have no freedoms and prosperity that you enjoy. (Yes, we are in a depression, but a depression in this country is nothing compared to a third world country).
That $528 Billion is budget cut in military terms because since the US has been coast to coast we have maintained sufficient millitary to fight a full scale wars one for each coast. We do this because we nearly lost our freedom twice after the US Constitution was ratified. The price one time was that Washington DC was burned to the ground.
Since Reagan left office those numbers have dropped to two small wars and now to just one large war. At one point, we were in an arms race with Soviet Union, but that caused the Soviet Union fell apart.
It was fine to pull back at that time, but today, China is working toward a million man army and expanding Navy including large amounts of landing craft and more Aircraft Carriers. I hear left saying that aircraft carriers are obsolete, but China, India, Spain, and Britain and a few others don't think so, they are building enough that we go from a number advantage to a number disadvantage. Russia still has one Aircraft carrier still commissioned, but several sitting in mothballs.
What has occurred is that we introduced social welfare programs that costs have been growing beyond projection since the 1930's and numbers of programs multiplying because politicians figured out the way to get in and stay in office was to give people new benefits.
What you are saying in the big picture is that social care far outweighs the security of your borders. I'll tell you that the security of the borders gives you the opportunity to have the freedoms and let us be generous enough to aid our own people with reasonable programs to help those that cannot help themselves.
Rome fell because they went from using their own citizens in the armies, to armies with some mercaneries, to nearly all mercenaries. In the years preceding it's fall, the citizens no longer had to serve in the military. That is why Rome had so many entertainment centers and bath houses. They paid big money to build these facilities and cut spending on the military. Once they cut back on paying the mercenaries the armies became smaller and weaker. When they got weak enough the empire began to crumble and to survive the boarders began to Shrink.
Eventually the Roman Empire was split in half, because they government was having an easier time keeping the army manned in the east than in Rome and that Constantinople would also be militarily easier to defend.
Putting the government handouts to citizens more important than the defense of the country is having the wrong priorities.
In 1960, John F Kennedy said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"
The democratic motto is now is "Benefits here, get your benefits here!
Seems to me the democratic party is just the opposite of what it used to be.
Romney & Ryan are converting Medicare into a coupon, in order to pay for millionaires and billionaires tax cut, unless they can tell us in detail how they would pay for 10 trillion dollars tax cut for super rich like Mitt.
Romney is not on the offensive with medicare....Romney plan IS offensive!
Romney foreign policy plan: I can see russia from my offshore account.
Ryan Foreign Policy plan. I can see milwaukee from my kitchen window.
What did Romney say today about his and Ryan healthcrae plan..... Our plans are different, ....Our plans are similar,....but we have not compared them point by point yet.........YIKES!!!!!!!!
Obama/Biden 2012........Saves medicare, medicaid, and social security.
I don't pay attention to the medicare debate for this reason. They seem to be very similar so if one is wrong then both must be wrong. The Obama camp is simply trying to distract us all away from the issues that they can not defend.
I voted for Obama in 08. If he were a man of his work I would not be able to vote for him in 2012 even if I wanted to. He would step down and if he did I would admire the man for acknowledging he could fix things and let someone else give it a shot. He is not a man of integrity however and will stay and if re-elected perhaps at the end of his second term we can see the debt doubled from when he took office ( he is on course for that )instead if reducing it by half. We may very well see the total collapse of our economy because of higher healthcare costs ( they are already rising if you look for the truth ) and lack of meaningfull jobs. Our economy won't run on minimum wage job creation. Poverty will be higher than during the great depression and people in general will become desperate causing crime to escalate and marshal law will be invoked.
Avenger-2464988
Everything you are describing is exactly what I fear the R&R team would do this country. The GOP voted 19 times during bush to raise the debt ceiling. The only reason they didn't this time, was to keep their mantra of not working with Obama and to make him a 1 term president. The GOP's trickle down economic theory has failed and there are no new jobs even with their mantra of lower corporate taxes. Romney has no economic plan. A bunch of bullet points on a website mean nothing.
The most serious problem in this country is both parties refusing to compromise and work together. Even after Obama wins in November, he still will have to find a way to get the GOP/Dems to play ball.
Hey if Republicans are going to put back the 700 Billion into Medicare, how about the Trillions that you stole out of Social Security? You know that fund that Reagan, Bush and lil Bush stole from to plug the hole known as "Deficits don't matter." Democrats = tax and spend, Republicans = spend and spend.
If you were hired as President of a company and the managers waiting to greet you had avowed to make you a 1 year President by not following any of your directives what would should be done?
I would hope your answer would be to get rid of these managers who are not working in the Company's best interest.
The Republican way is this. If our guy spends it's ok, if your guy does it isn't, I want government out of my life, but I want them IN yours, If I don't agree with something it should be illegal because only MY rights matter.
As far as Social Security, there is currently 2.1 Trillion in the fund and it will be exhausted in 35 year, but it will NOT be bankrupt, because money is always being put into it. After 35 years there will only be enough coming in to pay 70% of eligible recipients. Under the Ryan plan the 2.1 Trillion will be exhausted in 10 years and it WILL be bankrupt. Look it up it's pretty easy to find, or just continue being spoon fed information and taking it for face value.
700billion stolen by obamacare. if you dont believe it, obama admitted it back in 2010 in a 1 on 1 interview to an abc reporter.
if thts not enough obamaare will now cost 2.4 trillion instead of the 800 billion like obama promised
how about 6 trillion in new debt in 4 years?
obama has lost my vote he has lied to americans for too long. you are the weakest link obama goodbye
Speaking of old news...(Rim shot)
If you havn't visited the "DOGS AGAINST ROMNEY" web-site recently you should. I laughed until tears were running down my face.
Be sure you watch the Music Video featuring Miss Swiss Bank Account, "I'm a Romney Girl, In a Romney World (He's so plastic, it's fantastic)". I'm laughing again just typing this.
And by all means, remember Seamus. Dogs hate Romney.
Obama/Biden 2012
DB Akron -
"I do know a reputable business man who has a friend who knows the Harvard roommate. That guy avoids saying anything."
And I have a very close friend who is friends with one of Obama's Harvard pals. A couple years ago, during the whole healthcare ordeal when he was feeling let down because he had completely compromised with Republicans on the matter, and they were still resisting him, he invited her and a few other local Harvard pals to hang out with him for an hour at the White House. She has told my friend what he was like in college, and revealed nothing he hasn't already revealed about himself in his autobiography. So what is your point? Six degrees of separation. Lots of people know someone who knows someone who knew someone 30 years ago. Blah, blah, blah.
He didn't steal anything it's called reallocation of resources and the reallocation expanded benefits for seniors. Ryan's and Romney's plan for Medicare is to strip it of funding and give the savings to the upper class in the form of tax cuts. That is the difference.
Really? How about a source for that?
How about it? Got any reason at all for saying that or are you just making @!$%# up?
Seriously? You expect us to believe he ever had your vote? Puhleeeze.
Last time I checked, regulating the healthcare industry (and making necessary adjustments to Medicare) is not bad; turning Medicare into a voucher program that shrinks as healthcare costs skyrocket is bad.
Technically, the increase in defense spending after 9/11 IS a cause of the high deficits.
Not really. Military spending is $528 billion; total defense spending is roughly $1 trillion or more, whether you count benefits to veterans. At $1 trillion, military spending would constitute at around 26% of the budget, assuming that total spending is about $3.8 trillion. Yes, if you cut defense too much, you leave yourself vulnerable, but considering that America takes up 43% of the world's total defense expenses and that we spend roughly 7% of GDP on defense, I think we can at least roll back military spending to 4 or 5% of GDP without harming us.
First of all, I think it is safe to say that we will not be invaded; no country has the capabilities of doing that without us knowing about it. Not trying to be idealistic, but based on our history of having a small regular army and us fighting back, we have done relatively well. I support a large military, but not one that takes up over a fifth of the budget.
Technically, it was the arms race plus the monopoly on the economy plus the unsustainable Soviet economic system plus the rebellions in the Iron Curtain that destroyed the USSR. So don't give Reagan the credit of single-handedly taking down the USSR.
First of all, China already has a million man army; but numbers don't necessarily count. Foreign countries are building carriers, but I think it is safe to say that we don't need 20 aircraft carriers (I would like that, but not when we need to cut costs); 13 will suffice. By the way, we should start focusing on more advanced technology; we should investing more in cyber-defense, high-tech tactical weaponry, green-water ships, and drones, including the possibility of building drone carriers.
That does not justify cutting them to the bone in favor of expanding the military. A country that spends more on defense then on education and other social programs WILL NOT last.
No, both are roughly equal. And we don't need over 1000 overseas bases to consider ourselves "secure;" I say take it down to about 850 overseas bases.
But Rome also had to deal with corrupt leaders, periodic civil wars and coups, and a growing resistance among people (particularly the wealthy) from paying taxes or going to school.
In addition, the Roman Empire had grown TOO BIG for one person to rule; two co-emperors would serve more efficiently.
So education, investments in infrastructure, and social safety nets are "government handouts??" We need to focus more spending on education and infrastructure and begin to tone down the military to a more sustainable force.
That can also be applied to taxes, but I guess you can find a way to deflect...
Yet the Democrats are the only ones who propose to pay for this with tax increases; unlike the Republican Party that either says get your benefits without paying for them or lose your benefits and let the almighty rich get tax cuts.
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
typical Romney/ republicon lies !!
The ACA has been in effect for two years. Don't you think if benefits for seniors had been as drastically reduced as this fool Romney is charging, seniors and the AARP would be all over the news screaming and yelling. On the contrary.....benfits have actually increased under ACA for seniors in the form of a 50% reduction in the donut hole for Medicare Part D, free health care screenings for such things as colon cancer, breast and ovarian cancer, pap smears and yearly physicals. All at no charge to seniors. These are benefits they had to pay for before and are now part of their Medicare guaranteed benefits. Just who are these fools trying to deceive.
Yet they are forced to buy the AARP Supplimental insurance. Please AARP won't let them as they (AARP not the seniors are getting a kickback)
No one is forced to buy AARP insurance - there are many many plans out there that can be procured. People have been buying supplemental insurance to help pay what Medicare doesn't for many years - this is nothing new. At least AARP is looking out for the seniors, unlike either Romney or Ryan.
The ACA or Obama Care has yet to to take full effect. The thought that Medicare will cover everything is ridiculous as many seniors have to have a supplement to cover those things not covered so no its not any cheaper when the supplement cost has gone up. Just as all other health insurance premiums have the last two years.
You ignorant fools have yet to realize what the total effect of Obama Care is going to do to Medicare and those who will still not be able to get AFFORDABLE insurance. You mention all the free things already in existence, well how how do you think it is going to be affordable when it is taxpayers who end covering this cost?
Ryans plan in n o way endangers Medicare unlike Obama Care. You need to understand and educate yourself instead of watching some TV ad from Odumbo and taking it for the gospel.
I can't wait for Ryan to debate that idiot Biden. Those debates will show how clueless those on the left are.
laurie, great post!
As noted in the article, the Vulture and Voucher don't have a plan that will make sense to seniors (aka baby boomers!) and they don't have a plan that appeals to younger voters.
And TC, if you haven't benefitted already from the AHA or your family .... ::: sigh :::: The AHA has benefitted more than people realize!
How much money in donations from the health care industry has Romney received. I'll bet it was quite a bit. They'll give you a voucher for about $6000 a year to find your own insurance. COBRA costs at least 2X that amount. They don't care, their insurance is paid for by the taxpayers and it's better an anything the average person can afford.
I would rather have the $700B saved from Medicare go to health care for more people than to pay for tax cuts for millionaires. Mitt has a lot of nerve criticizing Obama's plan for doing something that Ryan's plan also does. It's almost as if he really believes we won't notice.
Romney (and now Ryan) is a liar. "Distort to success" should be his motto. Ryan (and his views and votes) are on the record. Anybody who believes these two tools need to have their heads examined.
Other fools!!!
Another Deadbeat Texan ...
And how sad is that?
Romney-Ryan =Vulture-Voucher
Funny how Romney & Ryan say reducing future Medicare spending by $700 Billion (over 10 years) in Obamacare is "robbery", given the RYAN BUDGET (which Romney has endorsed) INCLUDES THAT SAME, IDENTICAL $700 BILLION in "cuts".
Obamacare uses those $700 Billion in savings to provide health care to 30 million Americans who currently don't have health insurance.
The Ryan/Romney budget uses those SAME $700 Billion in savings to fund tax cuts for the rich.
Which is a better use of the $700 Billion in savings?
-- Provide health insurance for millions of uninsured (then Vote for Obama)
-- Tax Cuts for millionaires (then Vote for Romney)
This is just one example of HOW REPUBLICANS LIE!!!
obama thinks we're not paying our fair share when we can't afford to pay for health care. no healthcare=higher taxes.
vote nobama 2012
tired of the new broke
Romney thinks corporations are people.
I think they believe corporations have the same rights as people. I hate to break the bad news to you, but corporations do have the same rights as people. I like the Supreme Court decision even less than you do, but that doesn't change anything.
Ryan thinks a fertilized egg is a person.
Again, I think they are arguing a fertilized egg has the same rights as a person. Two quick questions for you: 1) if I murder a pregnant female should I be charged with one count of murder or two? 2) Should eggs of an endangered species have the same right to be protected as the species itself? It would be greatly appreciated if you could explain your logic when you answer these questions.
Neither of them think anyone that brings in less than $250k per year is a person.
And I suspect you think anyone that brings in over $250k per year is not a person. If you do think that, then I will disagree with you wholeheartedly.
We all know that vouchers are a way to privatize medicare/medicaid and to allow corporations the ability to continue ripping us off and to increase the money in the wallets of the 1%. We all have to read about the philosophy of Ayn Rand, Ryan strongly believes in her writings. He gives her books out for Christmas presents, and suggests that his staffers read her. The short of her philosophy is to do what is in their own self interests[ethical egoism],and to avoid helping others more than yourself[ethical altruism]. It is really interesting that today he is now distancing himself from her views but has been a proponent of them since high school. Check out his wiki page[an item he removed]. His wiki page has been locked since his announcement and is under wikis new guidelines for politicians of being only edited by the privileged few. Another view of Ayns' is to reject all religion and faith. How will that play out to the Roman Catholics, Mormons and far right Christians? Maybe that is the reason he is now distancing himself from her writings. The funny points in his bio voted "biggest brown noser" in his Janesville Wi., Craig High School and his mom thought he would become a ski bum and talked him into working in politics. Both of these were removed from his wiki page. You can still see info about biggest brown nose, and mom thought paul ryan would become a ski bum, if googled, it will show actual yearbook page. Too funny that those kids knew back then to call him that...
Reform IS needed.
Too many promises, everything for free, fool the people, keep telling them everything will be OK.
We borrow 1.3 Trillion a year, each and every year, who's going to pay it back????
Reforms ARE needed, otherwise the World will cease to exist as we currently know it.
Look at the European Countries. It is the beginning of a World Financial callapse.
The likes of nothing ever before experienced. Not for a Thousand years!!!!!
It is times like these that Countries make miscalculations that turn violent.
The question will be: Will Civillization survive. Not as we know it.
America: Your credit card has been terminated.
We currently borrow 40% of our Governmental budget.
Cuts will be made.
Get used to it!!!!!!!!
You have been living off your childrens children future prosperity.
Borrowing from your future. And theirs. Not good!!!!
Cuts will be necessary.
cuongd---
where do you think the $700 billion came from to fund the millions of uninsured? it's your mo.
@chartsweb
I know that full well, but where do you think all the money to fund "tax cut" for the rich?
In 12 years, we could have gotten over 1 trillions in tax revenue and yet we chose to cut so many programs like education, firefighter, infrastructure and such to again funds the "tax cut" for the rich.
The funny thing is it took us 12 years with almost ZERO result and Ryan wants try it another 10 years.
For a business man like Romney, he sure understand where to make most money and that is oversea. Yet he keep repeating lies about how the "job creators" will help the economic. Businesses only know one thing and one things only, that is "PROFITS, PROFITS AND MORE PROFITS". They made so much money oversea, what makes you think they will change their mind and abandon all that?
Romney-Ryan=RR=Richie Rich.
Wulff isn't it ironic that many of the world's corporations are the most profitable than they have ever been in history? Just a reminder. The DOW has DOUBLED in the last three years.
Reform? Let's start with those that are gaming the system such as Romney.
Where are your tax returns Romney? What are you hiding?
"but allow future retirees to maintain existing Medicare benefits as an alternative option, but in competition with private plans and with premium levels meant to cover its costs." Ok, the romney plan... we can go back to the failed hype-expensive old/non-plan... just like ALL people would choose, given the "voucher" alternative.
"Romney thinks corporations are people.
Ryan thinks a fertilized egg is a person.
Neither of them think anyone that brings in less than $250k per year is a person."
By far the best comment I've seen here in a while.
Puleeze, the Democrats have ALWAYS protected trust fund entitlements. Anyone who believes Republicans have suddenly become the champions of programs like Medicare has to be ignorant and very gullible.
The savings in Medicare under the Dems and the president was from reducing subsidies to providers (pharmaceutical companies, etc.) -- not from benefits for seniors -- And in fact those savings are being returned to seniors by closing the donut hole.
Paul Ryan (and now Romney) keep that same amount of savings in their plan, but the BIG difference is they do not return that money to seniors, and certainly not to ACA, which they want to repeal. They really do steal money from Medicare so they can give more tax cuts to the rich.
The Teapublicans down the line are already getting their mothers who are on Medicare to be in ads saying their sons would never hurt them and other seniors. Riiiight, ALL Republicans voted for Paul Ryan's budget and to end Medicare as we know it.
Come on voters, you know Repubicans have been trying to destroy the New Deal from day one. Anyone or any senior who is willing to take a chance of voting for the Robber Barons and giving them a congress to rubber stamp their radical agenda is insane. Romney and Ryan can't be trusted.
Vouchers are how they will END Medicare for everyone, because this is what will not be sustainable. Then they will use the excuse that it is not working as the way to end Medicare for everyone, including seniors already on Medicare. Don't take the chance--they won't stop at age 55.
Save Social Security and Medicare -- Obama/Biden - 2012!
I seriously doubt Medicare in its current form is sustainable either. Like it or not, taxes on the young will have to go waaay up or benefits to the elderly will have to go waaay down. If you have an alternative I'll be happy to listen.
cuongd---
until they let up on some of the mandates and regulations there will be no incentive to brings business back here. romney is wealthy because he isn't dumb.
Mitt Romney is again charging President Obama with a pacck of lies. Just don't start whinning when the sh**t comes back to him, and DEMANDING an apology.
The GOP knows how to dish out, but they don't like to get it back.
Romney's own words....
I'm all for Ryan's budget.
Wait....No wait, what I said was that I'm for only part of it.
Wait....I have my own plan that similar to Ryan's when it comes to Medicare.
Wait....I will tell you but I don't remember the particulars of how "MY" plan will differ from Ryan's.
Once again same talk. Say one thing, back track, say what you will do but give no specifics by conveniently forgetting. No one forgets what they plan on doing UNLESS they have no plan or real agenda.
Come on Mr. Romney. We Americans are much smarter than that
The real problem with a voucher system of healthcare using private insurance companies is not the price (although a significant issue) but it is primarily the operation of these companies (and "companies are people my friend") for profit necessary to pay the shareholders (also those same 1%ers that are going to get the tax cuts on their dividends and incomes).
Although a senior myself and supportive of keeping taxes low on dividends that senior do need to survive in the economy........insurance companies that operate from profit have a substantial motive and aptitude to DENY claims and make you go through hell to get healthcare you need. It is much easier to deny predetermination claims and to nickel and dime doctors charges to force them to seek payment from you rather than to make things reasonably easy to understand and transparent. Have you ever encountered insurance companies that make you feel like a criminal when you have gone through all that predetermination hoooey and then they still try to deny a claim..........we have.......and it is unbelievable how they try to deny something another part of the company has already approved. Is the plan to continue the insurance company profit for millionairres plan REALLY a good thing for the average retiree or younger people with children?
This is classic Rob-me wishy washy flip flopping.
Clouding the matter, though, is Romney's apparent disavowal of elements of Ryan's own plan, despite having previously said that he would sign the Ryan budget into law if it were the plan Congress were to send him.
For instance, Ryan's budget proposals leave in place the $716 billion of cuts to Medicare that Romney has vowed to restore.
So, he says as President, he would put that $716 billion back, but Ryan's budget plans for those very same cuts. Who is angry and desperate now?
Laurie- For one thing the AARP is really quite happy with changes in healthcare...... because they stand to gain approx. $2 billion in new business with the President's healthcare "reform". It would be against their best intersts to disagree.
Common- I think it's fair to say that Ryan is now in the Romney campaign and his budget proposal is dead. Why do I say that? Because as you saw on Fox News (scary, a purported here to be a yellow journalist channel) yesterday, Brit Hume was asking Ryan questions on his budget and Ryan, a number of times, said that he was in the Romney campaign and that it was candidate Romney's budget. He's doing his job as running mate and walking as the campaign wants him to do. Admittedly it wasn't elegant as he clearly was holding back (due to ads coming out that he couldn't upstage) but he did what he's supposed to do, support his candidate.
I think it's fine and good to start talking about big election issues instead of the same old vitriol that we are being treated to. I think Romney had a good moment yesterday when he challenged the President's campaign by saying, ""He demonizes some. He panders to others. His campaign strategy is to smash America apart and then cobble together 51 percent of the pieces. If an American president wins that way, we all lose," Romney said. "So, Mr. President, take your campaign of division and anger and hate back to Chicago, and let us get about rebuilding and reuniting America."
As an American voter I am extremely tired of the divisive campaigning taking place. We all know that when VP Biden spoke to the mostly black crowd yesterday in VA that he felt a preacher moment coming on, left the script, and said, "Unchain Wall Street! They're gonna put y'all back in chains." That was absolutely a racially charged, inappropriate comment- don't try to suggest otherwise. The President is using divisive campaigning to tear the American public into small groups that don't trust anyone else, then get enough of them to elect him- then maybe deal with the consequences later. That's completely disgusting and undermines the great country we have.
Mika B had to admit as much this morning on Morning Joe and she's surely in the Obama camp. There was a funny moment when a DC reporter tried to suggest racism against the Romney campaign for their comments on welfare reform and food stamps. Joe pushed him stating, "So are you saying that welare and food stamps are race based?" The reported said no, then tried to refocus on racism in other ways- despirately attempting to divide again. Joe didn't let him do it. It was ugly.
First of all Ryan's plans (as there was more then one) are being confused. He wrote a first draft that had vouchers with no other alternative then revised the plan to say you can have vouchers OR stick with the original medicare plan. So people saying Ryan's plan would end medicare are completely full of it as you could keep your medicare coverage and turn down the vouchers.
Second of all Ryan's plan didn't take that 700 billion dollars and give it to rich people in tax breaks, the 700 billion dollars saved went back into the medicare trust which is being depleted and is still on a path of going broke, which Obama has not fixed or address.
Third Romney did say he like the Ryan plan and would sign it compared with any of the alternatives. Romney agreed with Ryan that we need to SAVE medicare especially for those 55 and older. At the time their were no other plans other then Obamacare which raids medicare on the table. Romney obviously liked Ryan's plan because the Romney plan is similar EXCEPT for a couple of things Romney obviously didn't agree with (like 700 billion dollar cut) because he got rid of it in his version.
Democrats will attempt to make this lie about a plan that is not even on the table stick by repeating the lie over and over until it is believed, seniors don't fall for it.
Seniors ask yourself this, if Obamacare and the cuts to medicare are going to be so great why did Obama have the plan not take effect until after the election? If I passed a awesome bill that would help senior I would want them to know about before the election.
Seniors ask yourself this, if Obamacare and the cuts to medicare are going to be so great why did Obama have the plan not take full effect until after the election? If I passed a awesome bill that would help seniors I would want them to know about before the election.
You repeat the same lies so much you start believing them. Romney IS NOT giving tax cuts to the RICH. Actually if you listen to him and Ryan you will see they have said they won't raise TAX RATES on anyone, but they are for tax reform and getting rid of loopholes that allow rich people and businesses to not pay as much in taxes. So they are basically saying the RICH WILL pay more in taxes, but will not have a tax rate increase. Obama keeps saying he will raise tax rates but his administration has so many tax loopholes companies like General Electric pay ZERO in taxes, Solyndra got tax money as well as General Motors and Several banks.
President Obama in 2009 Pledged to Veto Attempts to Undo Medicare Cuts
Liar and Chief! Seniors get ready to get BO'ed. He told us the middles class was what he was going to fight for and we have been getting hurt ever since, now he wants to help the Seniors.
JoeNY what a lot of nothing. You must have selective hearing and understanding. Please let me be the first to tell you that it is the right wing garbage that has done everything in their power to divide this country. I for one have paid attention but the lies and misinformation out there is astonishing to say the least.
the only reforms that we can make to our health care system are the ones that both parties are too cowardly to make.
Germany and France have top notch health care systems that cost HALF what ours does, yet provide SUPERIOR coverage for ALL.. (despite the rhetoric of "we're number one" which is an outright lie)
nobody in Con gress has the balls to stand up to the insurance industry and big drug companies and tell them "
EMOUGH IS ENOUGH!
The only thing that Romney has in his bag of tricks is lies.
Romney's Plan.... allows future retirees to maintain existing Medicare benefits as an alternative option, but in competition with private plans and with premium levels meant to cover its costs."
So what's the problem if existing and future retirees can choose to keep the current plan or choose the new plan. They will not be FORCED to do either.
Obama will have to engage in some serious lying to do his typical demonizing on this one.
You liberals are fools because you don't acknowledge God, everything else then in your life turns to excrement. While those that do acknowledge God are blessed and their lives a blessing to others. You liberals then turn and demand that what the God fearing people have must be taken from them and given to you. You will NEVER find peace, nor provision enough because you cannot without acknowledging God.
You are great at saying this or that needs to be done but will not do anything about it yourselves, but will moan, groan, gripe and complain because you have no solutions for anything nor are you able to implement any kind of fix for anything because you do not count the COSTS of things. You just think money, or effort, grows on trees without you having to do anything to cultivate or grow or do something. Of Course it is always someone else's fault your FANTASY LAND UTOPIA version of things does not ever come about. So, continue to sit on your hands and do nothing and complain and accuse others, but at least keep your blaming and UNCARING selves silent while the rest of us do the necessary work.
Anyone who says that corporations are people and have the same rights are probably living a lavish life under their corporate donors. People have morals and emotions while corporations are money machines that have no emotions. A corporation can't feel the pain that cancer does to a PERSON. A corporation can't serve a sentence for breaking a law, although the shareholders might, but the corporation will not.
How many corporation's are there with no people? You are trying to get people mad at a building or entity, but the fact is those buildings and entities are only possible if people decide to work in them. Some of those corporate people are scumbags and losers and some are very good people, some try very hard to treat employees well (a happy employee is a productive one) while others only care about the bottom line. Once again you try to make some blanket statement placing blame on an inanimate object instead of judging people on an individual basis. No one is saying the building is a person, but people in a corporation should have the right to enter the political process to protect themselves, their job, and yes their corporation from a tyrannical government. Is it fair that politicians can attack corporations but you want them not to be able to respond to these attacks and sometime lies?
Buildings and what? Corporations are not people, they do not breath and eat to survive, plain and simple. Sorry that was to hard for you to understand. Sure policies can be passed that can hurt or help corporations, but their not people, they don't bleed when their cut do they. I was referring to earlier comments that corporations are people, sorry I stepped on your corporate shoes.
What about all those children who were molested and then paid off to keep quite? That's a blessed life, just had another report in our local area of a priest molesting children this year.
Bill Maher has cut all ties with you so-called churches and lives a nice life, heck he gave Obama a million dollars. The idea you have to go to church to be a christian is a joke, God never had his teachings at a church and then passed a collection plate around. Tide so more of your money away to the child molestors so they can pay off the families, o' wait their not keeping quite anymore.
Entity: Something that exists as a particular and discrete unit.
Corporations are made up of people, which is why they have rights. What is so hard to understand that people make a Corporation, people who eat, breath, and get sick are the ones who make a corporation exist. If you shut down a corporation people will lose their jobs, their insurance.
Instead of telling me what a corporation is not why don't you try to explain to me what a corporation is? What are corporations made of? Where does the money go that corporations make?
Well I like many Americans work for a corporation. I make less then 70K a year and get no big end of the year bonus, but I do count on and need the money and insurance my corporation provides. Obama and the government do not provide for me and my family, a corporation does. You hurt them you hurt me, a real person.
Roy, where is the facts behind this statement," allows future retirees to maintain existing Medicare benefits as an alternative option, but in competition with private plans and with premium levels meant to cover its costs."?
I love how you quote and highlight, but refuse to add a site and give credence to whoever wrote the quote. This is against Newwsvine Code of Honor, which you accepted,,,,,,,but "Obama will have to engage in some serious lying". Hypocrite and political hack, and I have prove from you,,,,,,,,,LOL.
And what about the other "future retiree's that will not have a choice? those below 55. You conveniently leave them out of your "alternative option,",,,,,,,,, you are one simple minded person trying to dummy us down to your level.
http://blogs.investors.com/capitalhill/index.php/home/35-politicsinvesting/7059-paul-ryan-no-gop-consensus-to-replace-obamacare",,
Ryan did not elaborate on what precisely were those “differences of opinion within our caucus” and whether the Republicans had any hope of reaching consensus in the near future.
That’s good news for the administration. The longer this debate goes on, the more ObamaCare becomes the status quo and the harder therefore it will be for Republicans to undo. Legislative inertia is the administration’s friend in this fight." Where is the plan,? Where is the consensus?
The latest C.B.O. report is based on assumptions given by the Ryan people,,,
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/121xx/doc12128/04-05-ryan_letter.pdf,, and a brief summary and analysise,,,,,,http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/08/15/fact-check-obamas-attack-ad-on-romney-ryan-medicare-overhaul/ and quote,"
The dollar value in the Obama campaign statement comes from the Congressional Budget Office’s long-term review of Paul Ryan’s budget proposal published in April 2011. The report compares Ryan’s proposal and the current Medicare system at several points in time, so ABCNews.com waded through the numbers to tell you what you need to know:
In 2022, Ryan’s health plan is expected to save the government $615.38 per beneficiary compared with the current law (plus other possible policy changes), but it will cost those beneficiaries $6,358.97 more per person, according to the nonpartisan report. That’s where the Obama campaign is getting its $6,350 number.
Here’s a handy chart with data from the CBO report:
Costs in 2022Ryan ProposalCurrent Law w/ Expected UpdatesDifference
Gov’t Share
$8,000.00
$8,615.38
($615.38)
Beneficiary Share
$12,512.82
$6,153.85
$6,358.97
Total Cost
$20,512.82
$14,769.23
$5,743.59
Ryan’s proposal includes providing citizens with vouchers to pay for competing private health care plans, and it assumes the competition will drive down costs. Medicare currently makes payments to providers that are about 30 percent lower than those made by private insurance companies, but the CBO assumed that this would end under Ryan’s plan, driving up costs for beneficiaries. This accounts for the price discrepancy between beneficiary costs.
Although the original spring 2011 plan completely privatized Medicare, an updated “bipartisan” plan included a traditional Medicare option.
However, the Romney campaign says it has an even newer plan.
“Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan have a bipartisan plan to strengthen Medicare and are committed to ensuring that Medicare remains strong – not just for today’s seniors, but for tomorrow’s seniors as well,” said Ryan Williams, a spokesman for Romney campaign, in response to the attack ad.
There are no long-term reviews for this updated Romney-Ryan plan yet — or specific published details – so it appears the 2011 CBO report on Ryan’s original budget proposal is the only thing we have to go on.",,, end quote.
So where are the savings to the typical participant, Roy!!!!!!!! More out of pocket expense to the average Joe, but a reduced budget for the Medicare Fund. Austerity for many, and profits for a few.....
Corporations are made up of people but are not people, do you live on this planet? Yes I know what a building is I help construct the very thing you work in. I consider a corporation a business, that is in business to make money. People are people w/o money, take money out of corporations and their gone. Not people, but are run by people. Answer me this genius which corporation has a pulse, breaths, and can bleed blood? Can't wait for this answer.
This also from ABC News,,,,,,"ABCNews.com fact-checked an earlier claim by Romney when he said it was a $500 billion cut, and found a Kaiser Family Health report that said the government will reduce spending on Medicare by $500 billion but won’t cut benefits. Kaiser and CMS said they expect Medicare spending to decrease because ACA will reduce fraud and overpayments to private insurers." and source,,,,,,,,http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/08/15/fact-check-obamas-attack-ad-on-romney-ryan-medicare-overhaul
So let the innuendo begin from the Repuglican political machine, Ala Roy and Co.
Funny how the Corporations have rights, that exclude the individual investor, but unions do not have that right. Sure, people have rights, collectively they have rights but some unions don't in the eye of the far right.
Well according to the definition of a corporation the answer would be ALL of them. I asked you to define Corporations and you didn't think to look up the definition?
Corporation Definition: A company or group of people authorized to act as a single entity (legally a person) and recognized as such in law.
2. any group of persons united or regarded as united in one body.
So your saying the GOVERNMENT Medicare program had 500 billion dollars worth of fraud and overpayments and we will fix this by creating another government program (ObamaCare)? Sounds to me like the Government is very wasteful with tax payers money, but if that is your defense good luck.
Both Obama's health care plan and the Romney/Ryan plans for Medicare are stupid.
Just get rid of private insurance companies and expand Medicare for everyone as a single payer system. Stop trying to re-invent the wheel and join the rest of the industrialized world by dumping private insurance to 1) instantly cut health costs nearly in half, 2) make healthcare coverage universal, 3) recognize that heath care is a human right. Everyone on the planet else figured this out 40 years ago.
Barring that, because Americans are such an obstinate lot captive to their own myth of exceptionalism, Obama's direction on health care is the way to go for the moment since it doesn't actively steal from the old and poor to further enrich the 1% who never outgrew their high school love of Ayn Rand sophistry.
What are you talking about? Unions are allowed to give campaign contributions and have for decades. To say a Corporation is a special interest group that shouldn't be allowed rights to an election process, but somehow Unions are not a special interest group and should be allowed is total crap. Both should be allowed and both are allowed. They have the same rights and rules, you just talk out your arss because you don't like the fact people in business get to have a say. You are the one who fights for different rules and different standards based on political views and political advantage, everyone else is just asking for a level playing field.
Ran out of edit time:
Everyone on the planet else figured this out 40 years ago.
Should've read:
Everyone else on the planet figured this out 40 years ago.
So it goes.
To the Vine:
1) Why are there editing time limits in the first place?
2) Why do you allow collapsing comments? Why not just have votes up and votes down?
What is the purpose of either?
lauri-480643
Yes Obamacare has effected seniors already in that since its passing premiums jumped up, medications covered went down and the cost of some medications that are covered doubled. I know because I was hit by all this. As to the rest of the deal, apparently a lot of people never look beyond today. If you can't bother to learn enough to see the big picture then you are doomed but we don't want that kind of short sightedness dooming the rest of us.
Obama purposely set a lot of the real bombs in Obamacare to take effect AFTER the 2012 election, duh!!! Think that was to fool people who take the liberal media's word for things??? Obama proposes to now take over 700 Billion, yes that is billion with a B to pay for his Obamacare. He claims it is not coming from seniors but from doctors and hospitals. HELLO, think a little out there. How many doctors are going to take Medicare patients with a deal like that?? On top of that there will be government, crony, run panels deciding by age when you are too old to be considered for expensive treatments like heart surgery, certain cancer treatments, etc. Do you really want to live in a land reminescent to the Solient Green movie? Do you want to give up your years so that illegals can non working people can have your health care you paid for? WAKE UP and smell the roses. If you want to volunteer to die younger than necessary go ahead, just don't take the rest of us with you.
culheath
Sure that is precisely what Obama and his supporters want. Socialized, government run medicine. That is a good thing? Then why do the 1% that really do exist in foreign countries come here for health care instead of relying on what thier 98% have to rely on??
No shilling for Obama is going to be passed by because we worked our butts off all our lives, paid in to the government promises, promises and now we are pissed because when we no longer contribute as much tax money for them to spend they want to throw us on the garbage heap in favor of illegals, the government blindly following dependent people all of whom won't contribute nearly what we have except to keep the fiasco going at least for a little while by numbers of paying minimumal taxes. When the real worker bees are dead or have left the country, then you can live in a third world country and see far too late, the train coming your way.
LogicRequired
You are absolutely correct AND the biggy Unions Leaders contribute to Obama, in 2008 and today and what did they get for it? Tons of "stimulous" billions to continue union jobs AND the biggy an EXEMPTION FROM OBAMACARE! So if Obamacare is good enough for the rest of us, why did the Unions want no part of it? Logic says, it isn't a good thing or they wouldn't not get and exemption from it and then keep pouring millions into getting thier boy re-elected. I shiver at how blindly the seniors are buying this bull. Maybe if they go for Obama, they will get what they deserve, it is just too bad for the intelligent seniors who will be drug down with them.
You know what people in Canada or any other country with socialized medicine would call that attitude? Being a sucker.
And as far as your claim of the 1%-ers from other countries coming to the US for medical treatment...is that your excuse for maintaining our unworkable system, so that the rich from other countries will have a health care system they can use while 40 million uninsured Americans cannot?
Yes let's join the rest of the world....
Patients in Spain will have to pay the full price for some prescription medicines under a new measure to cut healthcare costs
(Greece) Dr. Chris Rokkas is a top cardiologist at Attikon hospital in Greece, but these days the U.S.-trained surgeon rarely sets foot in an operating room, which is bad news for Georgia Scambi, who needs surgery urgently."She is in serious risk for developing a fatal heart attack at this point," Dr. Rokkas said. If he were in a hospital in America, Dr. Rokkas would have operated within 24 hours. One week later, however, he's still waiting for the right equipment.
(Belgian)He had his operation in May. In November he was dead. The prostate operation had gone fine, but afterwards the hospital had given him an antibiotic drug that caused complete deafness. Though there were other, but costlier, drugs available, the hospital gave the old man the cheapest one.
(UK) Thousands of doctors and nurses face being made redundant or not replaced if they leave, while many hospitals have cut treatments, the British Medical Association has found.
UK 'now short of 5,000 midwives' as NHS £20bn savings target threatens frontline care
Canada's Government health spending is growing at unsustainable rates, while patients are facing shortages of medical resources and declining access to necessary medical care. The president of the Canadian Medical Association recently called on the federal government to become more involved in the management of provincial health systems in order to solve the serious problems plaguing Medicare.
(Canada) A letter from the Moncton Hospital to a New Brunswick heart patient in need of an electrocardiogram said the appointment would be in three months. It added: "If the person named on this computer-generated letter is deceased, please accept our sincere apologies."
The patient wasn't dead, according to the doctor who showed the letter to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity. But there are many Canadians who claim the long wait for the test and the frigid formality of the letter are indicative of a health system badly in need of emergency care.
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-204_162-681801.html
I could go on forever with the failures of your perfect system.
Shakingmyhead, Everything you have said is exactly right, the news media has become completely negligent on informing the public on what is going on and what is coming.
Well I know some people in Canada would disagree-
George Zeliotis told the court he suffered pain and became addicted to painkillers during a yearlong wait for hip replacement surgery, and should have been allowed to pay for faster service. His physician, Dr. Jacques Chaoulli, said his patient's constitutional rights were violated because Quebec couldn't provide the care he needed, but didn't offer him the option of getting it privately.
the average wait for surgical or specialist treatment is nearly 18 weeks, up from 9.3 weeks in 1993, according to the Fraser Institute, a right-wing public policy think tank in Vancouver. A Fraser study last year said the average wait for an orthopedic surgeon was more than nine months.
A mother whose teenager was advised she would have to wait up to three years for surgery to repair a torn knee ligament.
"It's like somebody's telling you that you can buy this car, and you've paid for the car, but you can't have it right now," said Jane Pelton. Rather than leave daughter Emily in pain and a knee brace, the Ottawa family opted to pay $3,300 for arthroscopic surgery at a private clinic in Vancouver, with no help from the government.
There care is great if you can live long enough to receive it!
How many of those 40 million are illegals, how many are young people who could have health insurance but CHOOSE not to get it, how many are rich people who don't need it, and how many are simply in between jobs and will come of that number while others come onto the number in the same situation. Ever been to an emergency room? They are usually filled with people who have no insurance but BY LAW have to be given treatment.
Insurance is not all built the same, and we have to be capable of acknowledging that before any debate about how to fix health care and our means of paying for it can be reasonably made:
One segment of society has their health insured by the government in their old age. Throughout their lives many of them paid into the system, but they paid in very little in respect to the benefits they are presently receiving, due to inflation, which one would expect over time, unfortunately the inflation in the cost of care is not relative to the inflation of wages or in fact the inflation of the cost of anything else. The government has some means of enforcing cost control within the medicare system, however there is rampant fraud, waste and abuse because medicare is a government system and all government systems suffer from fraud, waste and abuse.
One segment of society has their health insured as a benefit of their employment. Throughout their employment they pay a share of their insurance, but the rest is primarily covered by the employer. These employer covered policies are usually fairly inexpensive compared to private policies because of the benefit of insuring a group collectively as opposed to the individual. The cost of health care for these people has also increased dramatically over the years out of step with ordinary inflation, however we would have to find out whether the cost of this employer provided insurance has kept pace with the rate of ordinary inflation or has kept pace with the rate of health care inflation.
Another segment of society has private insurance which they have purchased independently. The cost of health care for these people has also risen out of pace with ordinary inflation. The cost of these insurance policies are unattainable by the vast majority due to arbitrarily low wages. The cost of health care has increased out of step with ordinary inflation, but wages have also increased out of step with ordinary inflation to the negative, meaning that the cost of all goods has increased at a greater rate than wages. (We could probably argue the causes of this downward trend in overall benefits as being related to an increase in workers--we saw this with the women's movement and we're seeing it again with outsourcing to various countries.) If the cost of this insurance has kept pace with the rate of inflation in health care, as wages stay out of step with even ordinary inflation, every year it becomes more impossible for those who cannot receive employer sponsored health insurance to purchase private insurance.
We have the segment of society that cannot afford private insurance (either by earning too little or by having too many other obligations) but also earn too much to qualify for government sponsored care through Medicaid. These people fall into two groups--group one goes to the doctor and pays for the services they receive, while group two goes to the doctor and does not pay for the services they receive. This second group of this segment of population has been claimed by many to be the reason why an enforcement of insurance use by all is necessary, as the doctors and hospitals claim to have raised prices to the insured to cover the cost of "deadbeats". There are two problems with this idea: 1. Doctors and Hospitals admit to be steeling funding from guaranteed payers in order to cover the cost of the deadbeats, and 2. A vast majority of these deadbeats simply cannot afford to pay for the care because the costs are entirely too high--it is not that they choose to be sick and to cheat the system by walking away from their bills--and the costs are too high because the hospitals and doctors continue raising prices on the payers in order to cover those who can't pay. We have to ask the question, will guaranteeing more payers (there will still be those who cannot be guaranteed) cause the costs to go down? It is doubtful, as the wages earned by those in the healthcare industry are some of the only wages that have outpaced ordinary inflation, so they are used to a certain lifestyle. Further we should ask the question, will guaranteeing more payers to a group that has proven itself to misuse their trusted position by dubiously increasing costs on people who could pay to offset losses and make extraordinary profits that allowed them such greater wage benefits as the vast majority of the rest of society, make that group somehow more trustworthy--ie will prices then stabilize, defying supply and demand (as supply of everything medical will decrease while demand will increase, which usually results in increased prices)? Furthermore we must recognize that the people who go bankrupt because of the cost of health care are the truly ill of this group and the group of employer-insured people above (not the privately insured as they obviously earn a good deal of money in order to afford private insurance). These people earn too much to qualify for medicaid. We can raise the medicaid floor, however the medicaid floor must remain at pace with wages. OR We can determine a way to bring cost of care back in line with overall costs and wages, so that care and insurance both become more affordable to everyone. This would probably mean the FTC or some entity like that coming down hard on doctors and hospitals for arbitrarily increasing cost of care to people not receiving the care, which sounds a lot like theft.
Then we have the segment of society that earns too little and qualifies for medicaid. Medicaid does not cover everyone in this low-end earning bracket.
Now, I admit I am a certified capitalist, and I believe everyone should be allowed to earn their own keep in the way they deem fit, so long as it's not illegal. After years of rolling all of this over in my head (and mind, I'm just a writer, not an economist or a spectacular mathematician or a government bobble-head), I've come to the conclusion that while universal care would be best in a perfect world, there would be several pitfalls because we just don't live in a perfect world: that universal care would allow doctors and nurses and medical companies to go on strike for any number of reasons; being run by the government which already suffers from massive fraud, waste and abuse, a universal system would be inviting more fraud, waste and abuse; the health care services industry being such a large portion of the population (16% of the economy and 11% of all workers), lobbying would likely force even greater increases in cost of care over time; and the list could go on and on. We definitely have a problem though. Personally, I think there are a few viable solutions to even the playing field and promote fairness (as our President is so keen on such myths): 1. Implement a universal care system for chronic illness that covers everyone no matter their income; 2. All insurance beyond that chronic system then becomes private and no employers can provide it (this is insurance covering your hypochondria and little Susie's sniffles every other Tuesday); 3. All visits to the doctors beyond the chronic illnesses become pay-as-you-go unless you've purchased private insurance, which is based on your choice and of course your means; 4. We must increase the number of primary care doctors in order to force a greater supply of care, increasing competition and lowering overall costs; 5. keep medicaid for the truly poor, but limit it greatly since the chronic system is implemented to cover everyone. It might also be wise to make the chronic universal system independent by state, as each state has its own economy, but that's something that could be discussed. By this standard, the chronically ill would be covered no matter what so no more unpaid bills, the independent insurance would become equalized so that everyone buying in is his own individual and no one gets a better price based on his collective (or everyone is a part of the same collective as an individual), everyone except the truly poor understand the cost of their care as they see their bills at the time of service so we stop using medical care unnecessarily, and there are plenty of doctors for everyone so that costs go down.
This topic is fully polarizing the public,...and I really haven't heard too many speaking out on Romney's side.
The people (the 99%) feel so strongly about this that I do believe that the subject of medicare and the social safety net will lose Romney the election.
They can tell that their way of life and their standard of living,...and their hope for a dignified old age is about to slip away,...and it is uniting a LOT more people under Obama.
Americans need to take a stand against corporate welfare at the expense of the middle class.
Look at Romney and Ryan and who do you see ?
People may or may have not have liked Joe Biden's characterization that they intend to put us all back in chains,...but to a large extent he was right. My friends and I have a phrase for what we are seeing in terms of employment, workers' rights and the treatment of the middle class by corporate leaders,..."THE PLANTATION MENTALITY". It's all for them,....you'll take what you get,...at least you have a job,...and I am going to whittle down your standard of living so that I can live large. Me in the plantattion house,...you working until the day you die.
Don't stand for it. Unit the 99%.
Vote for "We the people". Vote Obama/Biden 2012.
With the choice of Ryan, Mitt Romney has lost the election.
Ryan is only going to appeal to those on the far,...farrrrrr right. This guy is EXTREME - look into it. A lot of people from a lot of groups stand to lose a lot by letting this nutjob loose on America.
The selection of Ryan signals Romney's true sentiments and intentions.
Romney just lost all true moderates and independents. This ticket is for hard core conservatives only. You really have to want to see a MAJOR conservative shift,...even beyond GW Bush.
The word is DRACONIAN. You are on your own - no matter what. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer,...not my problem.
A Romney/Ryan administration will be very destructive to the middle class, dismantling the social safety net, further deregulation of business practices and unempowering government so that the people have no recourse.
Prepare to be steamrolled by the will of big business. Unless you are at the top,...you will work longer and harder for less,...and the pain won't end because you will get little to no support in your old age.
If Romney/Ryan gets control, their regime will be far more extreme than the GW Bush administration, which is how we got into the financial mess we are in.
Don't say nobody told you so.
Your vote matters more than ever.
Vote Obama/Biden 2012.
As we make advancements in medicine you will notice many of these new Drugs, procedures, products, cost a lot of money. This is not just because someone is trying to get rich of the new advancement but because many of the cheap solutions have already been done. Let's say tomorrow they find a way to fix spinal cord injuries, and people who were paralyzed will now be able to walk. You think they just all of a sudden discovered some cheap quick fix? No they probably developed a very expensive and complicated fix that will cost tons of money. We want the best service, the best drugs, the best equipment, because our health matters, but we want to then say we spend to much compared to France, or Canada? They do not have the same expectations as we do, quick service with quick recovery times, with only the best doctors and best advancements available. If government takes over healthcare where are the incentives to advance come from? The system can be fixed to be better and with less cost but as soon as someone mentions Government I have to ask what is it the government does that isn't wasteful, & inefficient? Accountablity and good customer service is usually not something you think of when you think of Government so again I have to ask why would anyone think that is the answer. It may be the answer as long as you no longer care about many of the things a listed, service, quality, accountability.
Most Americans oppose Obamacare, and most also oppose the cuts in medicare made by Obama and Obamacare.
This is ridiculous, you on the left say this every time with every person on the right (Reagan, Bush, Romney, Palin, even McCain). Coming up with a plan to save medicare is hardly "extreme". You might not like his plan but at least he had the balls to come up with one, democrats have yet to tell the American people how they are going to save medicare. Let me guess by starting a new government program that is already in the red.
I will not even comment on the rest of the stuff you wrote as it is tired DNC propaganda that isn't worth a moment of anyone who is serious time.
Be my guest and prattle on with incidental anecdotes. I lived under Canada's health care system for 35 years and have first hand knowledge that says your assessments are totally bogus and a typical scare tactic from the American free enterprise/insurance school of excuses.
The simplest test is to ask any average Canadian if they would rather adopt our American one. They will emphatically answer, "No way, Jose!"
The Canadian system is economically fine and the propaganda you are spewing is straight out the usual claptrap from the conservative and free enterprise obsessed Frasier Institute think tank. You might be able to pull one over on Americans who have never experienced single payer universal health care, but you can't fool me or anyone else who has. What you are pushing is complete BS.
Logic--How much are you being paid to blog on here, do you actually have a job that lets you blog all day, o wait sure they do you speaking up for their rights to ruin the middle class. Their actually laughing at how their workers fight for the corporations and then they in turn lower your standard of living.
I don't need to look up the definition of corporation to know what it is, unlike you. And just because it says something about people being a part of that corporation doesn't mean it is a person. Nice try though, lawyer tactics only work in a controlled court room.
Under your reason, then the KKK, black panthers, and NRA would be a person. It's a corporation in the sense you put it. Wow nice try, there not people and should not be allowed to influence america politics with donations. And the main reason unions donate is to offset what your corporate buddies try and ram down our throats.
And about the millions who are in the ER waiting for the free handouts, you can thank Reagan for this who implemented the EMTALA in 1986, and which has been driving up my health cost ever since. So I guess your for all the FREELOADERS not paying, huh, well now they will pay at least something when they've been paying nothing.
And unions are not exempt from ACHA, they are going to tax our cadillac plans to help make up the cost. Sure we don't have to take the government health care because we do the honest thing and have insurance and have had it for over 100 years, our union members understand the meaning of paying for what you get. I'm still for AHCA cause now there are millions of people who can't be denied for pre-existing conditions and makes freeloaders some what accountable.
obama thinks we're not paying our fair share when we can't afford to pay for health care. no healthcare=higher taxes.
vote nobama 2012
tired of the new broke
If I had to choose between the Now American system and the Canadian system it would be a hard choice but I would probably stay with the American system. That's not the point, since everyone in America agrees our system has problems and needs to be fixed. My point is universal health care is being tried in many other countries and it comes with its own set of problems. Like I said in another post, Americans are not like others in that they want the best care, the best products, quick service, quick recovery, and choice. I'm sure most Canadians are happy with the healthcare system, but again most Canadians are probably healthy and when they get sick it is probably something minor that can be treated easily. I think America should try to lead in move into a new direction that addresses many of the problems like the health care bureaucratic waste, like the uninsured. I think we should move forward and continue to look for new and advanced solutions, not copy a system that is pretty good compared with how cheap it is. I think we can do better then our system and better then Canada's system and better then any system in the world if we think outside the box and stop playing politics with the real problems. Why is it every state has it's own health laws? This makes it difficult and expensive for Insurance Companies to operate with different laws and different regulations in every state. We can lead or we can follow, I would prefer we lead.
I wish I got paid to blog here, but I don't, not even by my employeer. The company I work for is like many others, they have cut benefits they used to offer, raises are smaller, and bonuses have all but gone away. I'm not saying companies aren't a$$ holes from time to time, but they are not out to "ruin" the middle class. You want to help workers then help fix the economy. When I first started working and unemployment was at record lows companies had to pay more, offer more, and treat everyone better to get good people. Now with the economy in the ground they know you've got nowhere to go so why give you a big raise or bonus? Corporations are supporting many in the middle class so please explain to me how making them a villain is helping the middle class? Maybe we would have a better economy if instead of chasing companies away with hateful rhetoric, and promises of higher taxes and more regulations we tried to get more industry to come to this country creating more competition which will lead to higher incomes because more businesses are fighting over a shrinking working base. This doesn't have to be done with tax cuts there are many different ways to incentive business. The problem with people like you is that you attack the very same systems you depend on to live. You have any money in 401K? How do you think that money will do if corporations, business managers, and rich elite start moving overseas with their money where they are not attacked? Stop with the stage one thinking and we will be able to start growing this economy again.
Logic, your quote,,,,,,,,",So your saying the GOVERNMENT Medicare program had 500 billion dollars worth of fraud and overpayments and we will fix this by creating another government program (ObamaCare)",,,,,,,No, Your corporate individuals have tried to bankrupt the program, and you call that individual freedom?,,,,,,,and "What are you talking about? Unions are allowed to give campaign contributions and have for decades." but in States with right to work, are they able to organise and have their collective bargaining rights been negated when all employee's are not required to join?,,,,, Can the same be said of any corporation in any State, when it comes time to support the candidate of the Corporations Board of Executives choice, and not the choice of each individual stock holder?
If that is the individual right that you imagine, you are in the minority and don't have a leg to stand on. Please compare the ability of any business or Corporations to contribute to a candidate, and that to a unions' ability to organise and collective bargain for the employee and contribute to political campaigns. There is a large differance and constraints put on the union, and you know it.
Simple; remove the fee-for-service payment mechanism with a fee-for-health (merit-based reimbursements) system and renounce all business with for-profit care providers and focus on non-profits like Kaiser until for-profit prices go down significantly. Also, Medicare has the authority to negotiate reimbursement rates and subsidies to hospitals and doctor and drug prices.
The problem is that when seniors see that the voucher will eventually become worthless, they will choose traditional Medicare in droves, and that sends us right back where we started. The voucher would only benefit the healthy and/or the rich, while hurting the unhealthy and/or the poor. Of the two Ryan budgets (neither of which I like), only the first one successfully dealt with Medicare costs because it offered no option, thus shifting the financial burden to seniors in full.
Technically, Medicare is part of the budget, so any savings could be shifted or expropriated to other parts of the budget, i.e tax policy. And assuming that the money would stay in Medicare, which it may or may not, the same happens with Obamacare. Both attempts make significant savings, but neither are sustainable; yet Obama's savings come from providers, while Ryan's savings come from beneficiaries.
Both sides raid Medicare; Obama raids it from providers, Ryan raids it from beneficiaries. I don't really see any difference between Romney's plan or Ryan's. If there is, Romney hasn't specified; frankly he is just trying to cover his tracks after choosing Ryan as VP. The $700 billion comes (from the Romney plan) from the voucher system (and I assume the retirement age increase), exactly from where it comes from Ryan.
Well, part of the reason was to attract Blue Dog Democrats (and there are still plenty of them, at least on the moderate side) who balked at the expense. And what about the Romney/Ryan plan??? They delay the change until 2023, exactly one year before Medicare officially goes bankrupt. Why not do it now, before the election??? They just want to keep the seniors placated and then focus on whittling the younger voters. Plus most people know what is going to happen in 2014 for Obama. At least Obama deals with Medicare right now; Romney/Ryan only do it after their out of office (assuming they get two terms).
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
Unfortunately, your assertion is false. Assuming that the Romney tax plan is revenue-neutral, and paid for by reducing tax expenditures toward the rich, the ONLY way to make it deficit-neutral is to raise taxes (not tax rates) on middle and lower-income people via removing deductions and expenditures that they have. Considering that their rate cuts are small, chances are it will be a net tax increase for them, especially when it comes to limiting or removing deductions like mortgage interest.
The bank bailout (however unpopular it was) was started under Bush and, unfortunately, was necessary, as our banks were too big to fail. If the cronies on Wall Street get a bailout, a blue-collar employer like GM ought to as well. And there is nothing wrong with public-private partnerships like Solyndra; that particular case went bad, but most of the Dept. of Energy loans were successful.
Just because an organization is made up of people does not grant it completely similar rights. Corporations are both tangible and intangible; you can see the contracts that made the company, but not the company's entity itself. That personhood could be expanded to the government, essentially making the people's income the government's income. Even progressives like me oppose that, so in order to prevent government from controlling (or owning) our income and wealth, we must restrict the rights of corporations so that it doesn't establish a precedent.
A corporation is a tangible/intangible entity that exists to create wealth and divide among those it sees fit. Corporations are made of people, property, property rights, capital machinery, unions, and human capital. The money that corporations make go to employee salaries and pensions/benefits, shareholders, investments in capital equipment and property, research and development projects, employee bonuses (I count executives as employees), dividends, interest on loans, taxes, renters of property, and/or corporate bank accounts and tax shelters.
Technically, since the U.S. government provides for your children's education (if they go to public school), your family's physical safety via security, and enables you to transport more easily via roads, highways, and/or public transportation, you (and 99.9999% of America) rely on the government. Not to mention the regulations and laws that the government has to prevent corporations from abusing you or underpaying you.
Foreigners also demand the same things that Americans do; in fact, they are willing to see a good system (universal care) when it comes out in the open.
Of course Canadians have diseases, many as major as us. We are not the only country with massive health problems. And I don't see how we can move forward with our current system. Private insurers are much more expensive than government insurers, and personally I don't see why Medicare has to deal with a middle-man (private insurers) to give care. Personally, I think that the private system is not salvageable, due in part to the lobbyists that they hire. I say extend Medicare for everyone besides those covered by TRICAR, Cobra, etc, and establish a public option for people who want to go to government-run hospitals who will treat you for free (paid only via taxes) that compete with for-profit and non-profit care providers, with everyone deciding who they want to go with. This competition will lower costs to a more reasonable level; I'd personally ban for-profit health institutions, but that is unrealistic and so I compromised.
Well, a comprehensive health regulatory system on the federal level would help lower costs, but only marginally. And America has followed a lot more than you would think; we followed the Allies in World War I (we took over in World War II), we adopted the European Enlightenment ideals of a social contract, of a representative democracy, and modeled our government and our major founding documents and values on things like the Magna Carta and the English Bill of Rights. I don't think we always have to lead; sometimes we have to admit that we are not perfect and that other countries have better ideas than we do.
I would assume that they are like the rich here; they want to create their own economy separate from the main economy. But since the government in Europe won't let them separate themselves from society as a whole, they decided to move to America in order to "separate themselves from the peasants." Just a thought.
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
obama may have bailed out gm in some areas but you should see all the empty car companies he shut down in texas and the jobs lost.
Fesheee, I'm not sure your simple solution will work. If I understand you correctly, we are supposed to remove payments (reduce revenue) and give a merit-based reimbursement for the healthy (increase expenses). How will decreasing revenues and increasing expenses help anything? For that matter, if I have a contagious disease, won't it be in my best interest not to go to the doctor and get it treated since that will eliminate my reward for being healthy? I understand the concept of aligning incentives correctly but I'm not sure your plan does that. I think the simpler and more effective solution to the health care problem is simply to increase the supply of medical personnel. The American Medical Association keeps the supply low via a limited number of licenses - good for the doctors, very bad for the rest of us. Increasing supply will cut the cost and cutting the cost is the real key to fixing health care (not providing more of it, that will simply increase the demand and raise the price). Unfortunately this plan is a non-starter for political reasons - the AMA will fight back hard if any attempt is made to reduce their members salary and no politician has the courage to face the flak (at least not the two running for the presidency).
Nope I don't own any 401k. I'm in a building and trades union that funds it's own pension through collective bargaining, o' and I have a cadillac health plan paid for by my employer through collective bargaining. I have a pension through my union, and guess what my pension will pay out more than I put in, unlike some @!$%#ty 401k. I have never met anyone who retired from a 401k. But our little local union has at least 45 guys who show up to the bi-annual retirement party. I'll stick with my Pension.
As far as my job going oversea's, that's funny, LMAO funny. I work on commercial roofs and until they start shipping pre-built buildings over here I'll be fine. No working in an office on a computer for a corporation I would be scared too.
Your the type of person who I just never get, you defend corporations at every turn, and then you admit that they are taking your wages and benefits or lowering them. I guess you get what you asked for, huh.
Funny part I wasn't attacking any corp. I was responding to the comment that they are people. No people are white, black, brown, eat, sleep, reproduce, and make stupid comments about corporations being people. Can't name one corporation that does they above.
Yah, what a hoot!!! Just like the headline: Romney Actually Born in Mexico, Birth Certificate questionable, and Romney used of Federal mandates to keep Latino quotas intact at Harvard.
Same absurdity. Same results.
Funny how Romney & Ryan say reducing future Medicare spending by $700 Billion (over 10 years) in Obamacare is "robbery", given the RYAN BUDGET (which Romney has endorsed) INCLUDES THAT SAME, IDENTICAL $700 BILLION in "cuts".
Obamacare uses those $700 Billion in savings to provide health care to 30 million Americans who currently don't have health insurance.
The Ryan/Romney budget uses those SAME $700 Billion in savings to fund tax cuts for the rich.
Which is a better use of the $700 Billion in savings?
-- Provide health insurance for millions of uninsured (then Vote for Obama)
-- Tax Cuts for millionaires (then Vote for Romney)
This is just one example of HOW REPUBLICANS LIE!!!
The Ryan/Romney budget uses those SAME $700 Billion in savings to fund tax cuts for the rich.
Can I get a reference for that please? Thank you.
@Robert
Read the Ryan's plan, it has been posted several times and hight-lighted section that would affect us.
Tax cut for the rich in 10 years is one of those section. When you decrease tax, you decrease tax revenue. Ryan would need to cut something else to cover that.
Just another day for Romney/Ryan going around the country and lying to the American people. That 716 billion was not stolen, it was from the subsides and waste from the insurance companies, and given back to prescriptions and the medicare fund. What's next Ryan's mother coming on national TV and telling everyone "Oh Paulie would never take Medicare away from me or any seniors for that matter, he is trying to save Medicare" Give me a break, I sure hope the elderly are not buying into this crap.
Good job Laura. I agree, I hear nothing but lies coming out of that Romney election team. What was the one today...oh yeah, if Obama is re-elected, we will all be back in chains, y'all. How about that new commercial where Romney tries to blame a woman who dies from cancer to President Obama, even though it has already been proven that he had absolutely nothing to do with it.
Keep up the good work...it's people like you that will make sure that the truth comes out.
And the difference between the Romney election team of 2012 and the Obama election team of 2008 is what again?
Can you tell me which one of the sections please? Thanks in advance.
If your paycheck has been deducted all your life every time that you get it, with the deductions going to Social Security and Medicaid, YOU ARE NOT GETTING ANYTHING FOR FREE. The Republicans would like you to believe that they are doing you a favor by dismanteling the Medicaid Program, and turning it into a VOUCHER PROGRAM. A voucher program that will not keep up with the pace of inflation.
Also, you will end up paying $6,5000 more A YEAR the first year. As we know how the Insurance Companies work, you can bet that you will end up paying TWICE AS MUCH in no time at all. 1 or 2 years top.
Vote Democrat to stop this nightmare from happening to you.
The reason they are called entitlement programs is, like IRESPOND says, we PAID for it, and we ARE entitled to the benefits.
Ryan may have some mental problems from his dad, grandfather and great grandfather all dying in their 50s, but that doesn't mean we just hand over control of Medicare because he has a few screws loose.
Seniors ask yourself this, if Obamacare and the cuts to medicare are going to be so great why did Obama have the plan not take effect until after the election? If I passed a awesome bill that would help senior I would want them to know about before the election.
Could it be the law needs to be phased in over more than one year? Just asking.....
What I don't understand is, if you can choose either Medicare as it is now or a voucher for private insurance, who would choose a voucher?
Medicare as it is right now is unsustainable. Politicians don't want to tell the American people this because they want to get elected, but the program is going broke and will HAVE to be changed. Coverage cuts and higher cost will come no matter what the politicians say because the program can not survive the way it is. Many Seniors will take the voucher which will allow them to go and get better health insurance that they get to choose. People like to choose their products not be forced to take one crappy product the government is forcing people into.
BS. Ask any senior if they want a voucher system. The vouchers will not cover the cost of any insurance and they are simply a guarantee for private insurance companies to make more money. Scrapping the private insurance companies as health insurers altogether would be the best way to save Medicare. It' the for profit aspect of the American health care system that is the major problem and causing it to be nearly a fifth of the GDP.
Yep, and what will those vouchers do for those who become sick and are dropped from their preferred private insurer? They will have to go back to the traditional Medicare. I can see it now, Medicare with all the expensive medical accounts and the fat-cat private insurance with the well to do and those who can afford it plan.... Great way to solve a problem,,,,,,,,,,NO.
actually, the perfect way for the politically motivated to scream that health care for the poor and elderly is too expensive and that funding should be cut off for it. at that point they will drag out the "its their fault for not taking proper care of themselves" "argument" , even when "not taking care of themselves" consisted of living a clean life and simply getting old.
the republican "death panel plan" in action.
Reince Priebus just creeps me out....can't the GOP find somebody who resembles a living human to be their spokesperson?
I have to agree with you. In all probability there is a large key inserted into his back and he is wound up twice a day. They once had an intelligent, articulate, well-educated, and rather sophisticated head of the RNC ~ ~ but Michael Steele didn't fit the matrix for the GOP ~ White, closed minded, and constipated.
Instead of NYC, is MIB really located in Wisconsin ?
Rinse Privates is merely an example of what the Republican party has lowered itself to. Of course he is creepy and, of course, he will always do and say what Norquist dictates.
Jim, I do say, you have a golly good sense of humor!!! Heh, heh, heh..
Reince looks like he could be Gilbert Gottfried's long lost brother.
You already got one handsome one - our current President. Did you get enough hope and change?
Wow, a whole thread dedicated to looks and name calling, no susbstance. Classy! But I guess your just taking your lead from the our leader, no postive record to talk about, no substance, just ChicagoLand attack politics.
Relax, Logic(less), the left has it's own cast of zombie-impersonators - it's just that I've seen Prebuis a few times lately and every time I think, "Wow, he looks like he's never been out in the sun."
Now, if you want me to list the positive record, sit back and read on:
http://3chicspolitico.com/president-obamas-accomplishments/
I get tired of that old line of B.S. - it has always taken a considerable amount of time to clean up the mess the GOP leaves behind.
And you Republicans get your rubbish and bull@!$%# from your elite 1%er who shall forever be known as the most vicious primary candidate. I guess you forgot that people don't like whiners and that Mitt launched a massive takeover of the airwaves that was so complete and effective that it resembles the German Blitzkrieg.
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
Mitt Romney has started the lies and deceit already. He's banking on Americans believing what he is saying even though we all know it's not true. The media should call him out on this. We want the truth so we can make up our minds based on the truth and nothing else. Republicans will say and do anything to win this election because they can't handle the truth.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/president-obama-in-2009-pledged-to-veto-attempts-to-undo-medicare-cuts/
Romney said he will create "12 millions jobs on his first year", he didn't say "HOW" though.
This is like telling people everything they want to hear just to get vote. He talks a lot about different things, but when ask "HOW?" he just dodge it.
Actually, Romney said he'd create 12m jobs in first "term" or in 4yrs. It makes quite a difference.
Romney will lose 12 million jobs in his first term. His solution of tax cuts for billionaires has already been in place for more than 10 years. Where are the jobs those cuts are supposed to create.
On the other hand, the Federal government created the internet, and funded the university project that created the first Web browser. I ask you: How many jobs did that create? Think Amazon, Google, Cisco, Facebook, just for a start. None of them exist without government investment up front. And when you realize that NASA was the only customer for the early computer industry, we have to add IBM, Apple, and Micorsoft to the list.
And how many jobs were created in China, Spain, and Germany, when those governments subsidized solar power after Reagan cancelled Carter's programs to do the same? Those jobs could have been American. Does that make Reagan the biggest traitor of all time, or simply an idiot?
If government wants to help create jobs, they have to think big, and into the future. Romney and tax cuts for people who have more than enough already are neither.
OMG Jeffrey, you are so right on the button. That Romney wouldn't know the truth if it bit him. I really like the one he put out today...what was it again. Oh, yeah, I remember...If President Obama is re-elected we will all end up back in chains. Then of course, there is the new commercial about how President Obama killed that lady. It is disgusting how the media just let's him get away with it and never questions a thing he says.
Cuong, you too my friend are really hitting the nail on the head. You know what that whole 12 million jobs thing reminds me of...when Romney passed his healthcare bill and told everyone that they would have to pass it to read it. The guy just can't be trusted.
Jon @5.4
You blaspheme re Saint Ronald....... He also raised taxes several times but the Norquist devotees of today ignore that and rather handpick facts they would rather have us believe would still be good today.........trickle down is a wonderful thing as all of us should realize how well that has worked...................NOT!
Tax cuts to the rich job makers..........how well did that work under Bush/Cheney..............errr we will not be talking about those previous attempts during this election, thank you very much because "corporations are people my friend" and they need our help...........except when Obama does it........THAT is socialism, my friends.
You repeat the same lies so much you start believing them. Romney IS NOT giving tax cuts to the RICH. Actually if you listen to him and Ryan you will see they have said they won't raise TAX RATES on anyone, but they are for tax reform and getting rid of loopholes that allow rich people and businesses to not pay as much in taxes. So they are basically saying the RICH WILL pay more in taxes, but not will not have a tax rate increase. Obama keweps saying he will raise tax rates but his administration has so many tax loopholes companies like General Electric pay ZERO in taxes, Solyndra got tax money as well as General Motors and Several banks.
Romney's 12 million jobs will be soldiers drafted to fight in Iran and Syria.
Romney helped build Staples and Sports Authority. He has created more jobs while in the private sector then Obama has as President. You can try to keep spreading the closed down Steel factory story (closed down after Romney left, was closed by a man who is now an Obama bundler), but the fact is Romney has made a lot of people successful, and Obama has made a lot of people join the welfare rolls.
A good sense of logic would know that Romney's capital firm invested in Staples, not ran Staples, and Staples created low wage jobs, to make up for the firms that Romney's capital firm bought and shut down, shedding many high wage jobs. So much for Romney's idea of "job creation". Can you say, "liveable wage"?
Dude, you really need to look up the facts. Ryan/Romney's plans will be the biggest redistribution of wealth in economic history; Ryan claims that he is going to "broaden the base and lower the rates," all while keeping the reform deficit neutral. In order to do that, he will have to eliminate numerous tax expenditures that benefit the middle class, effectively raising taxes since the rate cuts for them are so trivial. But since the rate cuts for the wealthy are so high and the loopholes for them are so few in number, he will cut taxes for them. This will be the most regressive tax plan in America's history; it almost resembles the tax plan of the French monarchy, before it got overthrown in a bloody revolution. You can keep deluding yourself all you want; the fact is that the Ryan tax plan cuts taxes for the rich and raises taxes for the poor.
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
And nobody said a word about it. Not one Republican went before the nation and expressly pointed this out telling us just exactly how the raid was conducted and what the money was used for. Amazing that the Republican controlled House of Representatives, who are supposed to be controlling the way money is spent, didn't say a word or even pass sweeping legislation to stop him. Nothing in the media, not even on Fox, the propaganda wing of the right wing nut job party.
Amazing how the righties whine and howl when a lefty mentions Seamus the dog but they keep on about some sort of foreign student and transcripts and other irrelevant stuff. Dodge, weave, distract, deflect - the Karl Rove book on campaigning. They were able to swiftboat Kerry and Kerry was too nice to fight back. Obama saw that what basebal manager Leo Durocher said was true, "nice guys finish last".
It's not true that nobody was out telling of the cuts. You just weren't listening.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/president-obama-in-2009-pledged-to-veto-attempts-to-undo-medicare-cuts/
Great clip, showing that Obama promised to keep the bill deficit neutral. We need to keep pointing out the Romney lies.
Adler
We tried to warn you but were shouted down as Idiots, Alarmists, Retroists and worst yet Racist. One thing about the Tea Party Rallies that I have been to, at least no woman ever got raped at one. OWS had at least 15 as I remember. Which was more civil Tea Party or OWS. Tea Partiers get insulted and shouted down by the Liberals but when we try to open your eyes to the real facts, Feisty or another mouthpeice calls us liers. Do your own research.
BTW Obama during the McCai debates told us that he would not remove a single dime from Medicare/Medicaid. Obamacare cut at least $500 Billion for those programs, thats 50,000,000,000,000 lies from Obama
Well good God, man ~ have you taken a close look at the hags that attend Tea Party gatherings? No human male has ever been that horny. Plus, most of the men in attendance couldn't get a rise in an elevator. It would be analogous to stuffing a raw oyster into a parking meter.
Same old teabagger BS. The money that was taken from medicare came from savings from restructering and improving the program. Service was not reduced. Get educated before you make an ass out of yourself again.
So, Howitzer, service was not reduced? Are you old enough to have to try to find a doctor that will take a new Medicare patient? I didn't think so! More than half the docs in this country will not take new Medicare patients and more are stopping every day. Fortunately my wife and I see doctors who are keeping us as patients since we've been with them for years.
How are your parents doing? Happy with their care? Have a good doctor that takes Medicare? Great! What about all the boomers that are starting to retire now? Where are they going to find care when no one will accept the dropping reimbursements that Medicare is offering? Hmmm???? I though not!
Oblameo got his $700 billion by cutting the reimbursement rates below the breakeven point for most doctors. If you can't make a living, you stop providing the product and go with what will provide you with a living wage. Simple economics. Oh, but I forgot: anyone who actually makes money is a demon!
Bob
medicare reimbursement cuts have been instituted since 1965. Democrats were totally in charge at that time. Over time the cuts have become greater. The ACA increases them drastically.
If you follow the links, you will find since about the 90's there has been annual legistlation that returns part of that back to the doctors by using general funds. Regardless the reimbursements were originally set AT cost of services. The cuts on reimbursements take the reimbursements to less than the costs to perform services.
Adler its amazing how Obama keeps saying he saved the auto industry yet GM is still falling apart and it is now estimated that the taxpayer will lose $25 billion because of it. But still, Obama preaches how he saved it. GM has sent countless jobs to China, GM is still faltering, the taxpayer is losing billions and yet, somehow, Obama blows it off as some kind of success. Its amazing how the liboturds keep refusing to tell the truth.
Bob in KC, I am also from KC and I call BS because I have recently got on Medicare and have not found any of my previous doctors to not take Medicare. Also every specialist I have had to go to has also taken my Medicare. So we are both from The Show Me State so please SHOW ME these so called doctors that do not take Medicare because I can sure show you all the ones that do.
"If you can't make a living, you stop providing the product"
The cost of a 'product' includes far more than just the doctor's salary. How many other businesses have you seen that have the beautifully decorated rooms full of staff wandering everywhere that you see in virtually every doctor's office? Those trappings are expensive, and you're paying for them, along with the fee for your doctor's services.
Possibly doctors aren't very good business people? Maybe their window dressing is a bit more than they should be spending? How about trimming some of the fluff that has nothing to do with the cost of treating me, instead of whining that cutting their pay to only $200k/year is unfair?
The business world has a very large graveyard full of companies that overspent their way to bankruptcy on fancy trappings, and would probably include most of these doctors if not for the support that Medicare provides for their champagne tastes in PR.
Bob
My mother was on Medicare. She passed away 10 years ago. Even then some doctors wouldn't take Medicare patients. Blaming this fact on ACA is just wrong.
This was all part of Pelosi's plan to have the ACA passed before we found out what was in it. Remember that? I sure do. I also remember plenty of people screaming about it including medicare cuts to pay for it. Maybe you weren't willing to listen at that point.
Yeah and that is why the reps were not included in that secret party and didn't vote for it. If you dont' know what your voting fot stay away. "We have to pass this bill to know what is in it. "Nancy Pelosi And the brain dead zombie libs say "the reps didn't votre for it and want to see medicare go away. Obama stole 714 bil from medicare on put into his obama care that is 714 taken from the seniors. That is theif.
Don't worry there are plenty of us out there that will keep calling Romney/Ryan out on all their lies and deceptions to the American people.
And there even more that are calling out the lies from this President and his henchmen.
Sorry, this is not going to work because most people know this is a lie. The bottom line is that the Ryan budget voted on by the Republican Party and endorsed by Romney cut Medicare program, other social programs, and give the rich a tax break. Simply, you cannot expect the American people to believe that Obama cut or stole from the Medicare program for ObamaCare. The 716 billion used for ObamaCare is the cut from provider’s administration program. This is a reason why people do not like Romney because he lies and distorts the truth. In addition, the American people will never buy this garbage that he is dishing when people know that you want to make cuts to Medicare and give the rich a tax break. It is also stupid to tell the American people we need to cut the debt but you want to give a tax break to the rich.
Liar
http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/daily-reports/2011/september/20/obama-health-cuts.aspx
Romney is a liar, but an article from the largest health organization in the country is not the place to find it. All you're doing is quoting lobbyists. Here you go:
"Garrett said that the "president’s health care law raids Medicare by more than $500 billion and creates a Medicare rationing board — a group of 15 unelected bureaucrats — to slow the growth of Medicare spending."
The national health care law does not cut funding for Medicare, though it does decrease projections for future spending growth. Spending on the program will continue to grow, but at a slower pace."
http://www.politifact.com/new-jersey/statements/2012/aug/03/scott-garrett/scott-garrett-claims-affordable-care-act-raidts-me/
Also, everyone should know that the Ryan plan keeps the exact cuts to Medicare as Obama does, which caused an extremely awkward moment for Romney.
Hellodock
and Obamacare didn't. Obamacare took at $500 billion out and still Obama is saving Medicare/Medicaid. Open your eyes People
It was NOT taken out ~ as in not allocated. The money was redirected within the healthcare overhaul to reduce overcharges for treatment, prescription drug overcharges, and other forms of fraudulent claims. Ryans's plan REPEALS the Affordable Care Act altogether ~ ~ then it strips $716-billion dollars out of Medicare allocations and uses that as a partial offset to cover lost revenues brought about by additional tax cuts for the wealthy. And Romney is forced to accept this program otherwise additional tax cuts will swell the debt by an equal amount ~ and you know that after ponying up hundreds of millions for his campaign that the millionaires will not settle for less than reduced taxes.
hello doc...don't think the guy who first answered your response read his own link. the very first sentence said the cuts were to hospitals and other providers, not the senior.
Jim in Teaxas...great post of facts........rt wingers heads are exploding!!
This is why it's imperative that Democrats get out and vote this November..it's important not only on the part of the president's office but also to get these republicons out of the House and the Senate..or at least make them both Democratic controlled...Once that happens, this country will begin to truly move forward..Republicons have alienated everyone in this country..all they have left in their party are old, rich angry white men who are trying to buy this election before they go down for the last count...If Romney /Ryan's elected for president, the poor, sick and elderly will be lying dead in the streets; the middle class will be decimated and the rich will be living in their gated communities with soliders surrounding their homes...Just like Al so eloquently said, "This race race is no longer about Obama...this race is about your Momma"...LOL
No matter how many times I see them do it, I'm always amazed at how the Republicans attempt to position the other side as doing what they (the Republicans) intend to do. This gimmick has already been refuted as a lie and yet here they come again. This is the biggest whopper since the 1% justified their tax cut because they were "job creators."
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/president-obama-in-2009-pledged-to-veto-attempts-to-undo-medicare-cuts/
Yep, I do wonder how the Republicans are going to argue the fact that The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and Medicare are the same type of government program then turn around and tell seniors they won't touch it. Honest *fingers crossed*. :)
They'll gut Medicare just like they want to gut any social program including Social Security. Anyone voting for them that lives off assisted living needs their heads examined. Then again it seems the Elderly are always victims of crooks, cheats and liars.
For decades now every election cycle the democrats say the same things. We've had republican Congresses and Presidents and the social programs are still here. It's time to update the nonsense.
mhrjhn...You make that comment when the article itself is about Miss Mittsy using an argument from the 2010 playbook? Really??
Do you know how to read, or just cut and paste, little one?
The link was to an abc news interview:
TAPPER: One of the concerns about health care and how you pay for it — one third of the funding comes from cuts to Medicare.
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: “Right.
"I always thought I was okay with arithmetic. This guy can run circles around me, and he is honest, he is straightforward, he is sincere," "And the budget he came forward with is just like Paul Ryan. It is a sensible, straightforward, honest, serious budget." Erskine Bowles
Romney, please stop trying to deceive the American people.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/president-obama-in-2009-pledged-to-veto-attempts-to-undo-medicare-cuts/
Mhrjhn: We get it....enough with the same post. You can believe what you want, the rest of the middle class isn't buying it.
Then I hate to say that the "rest of the middle class" is not very bright Jackie.
mhrjihn, all Obama siad was that he would veto the bill if it stopped being revenue neutral. Yes, that would include changing the same Medicare projections that Ryan has in his own budget.
That may be, but, don't you think it's telling that even republican supporters and pundits are questioning policies that hurt the middle class, and for policies that help those in the 1%. The whispers are getting louder regarding the house and senate races due to the Ryan plan being discussed, and making them a closer race than first thought.
mhrjhn, try reading the whole article. Read it in context. You are cherry picking to support your narrative and calling everyone else "not bright." Look in the mirror.
Jock
The bill was never revenue nuetral and yet he still signed it. Some campaign promise
Fester, there are two rich guys running on the GOP ticket for the President and Vice President of the U.S., who don't believe any American needs to know about them, period, just 'trust them,' don't worry about the lies, the distortion, Ann Rynd and Catholic leaders questioning Paul Ryan's philosophies he holds to his chest, or that they have no concrete plans to help America, other than cutting Medicare and using 'vouchers' (which would be a set amount no matter how high other mitigating costs go), only assumptions and a theoretical framework to build a triage to nowhere.
GOP 2012...
You will defend a government-run health care program for senior citizens.
...but legislation that expands availability of health care coverage by private health insurance is socialism?
Sununu creeps me out -- he always sounds angry and overly loud.
wait! aren't we talking about jobs and the economy one thousand percent of the time????? The Republik party message for 2012 is JOBS AND THE ECONOMY. What, wait, where, um, I'm confused.
Not surprised
I saw Sununu yesterday on CNN and let me first say that Blitzer is a waste of airspace and couldn't ask a poignant question if his job depended on it, and I wish it did.
Sununu was a lying POS. He lied straight off and often making accusations which are completely false. That was besides all the dodging of any other question that even may have defined Romney. I say may BECAUSE WOLF IS A MOR... and no I wasn't going to say Mormon. ;)
A "Morlock"?
You're calling Sununu a reference to the underground people in H.G. Well's The Time Machine? Well, I guess that could be appropriate, but it seems a little odd. At least "Mormon" would be a more recent reference. The Time Machine is an old novel, you know.
Obama all the way. He has done nothing wrong, he was given the current problems this nation has from our past president who did nothing for this country but spend 8 years driving this country into chaos and debt. think about how Bush Jr. left the people of katrina go for so long before he did anything for them. These problems will take 8 plus years to dig out of we will not recover over night like all the @!$%#s of this country thinks. 3 1/2-4 years is not enough time. The lord knows what the real problem is here people are more concern with President Obamas skin color then they are of him doing the job as president, if it was a white man in office he wouldn't be getting all flack he has.
Have you been a moron for long?
you are correct chuck. Don't let the GOP turn reality upside down. Question the motives of the GOP for they lie. My grandmother used to say if you are right then you don't need to lie. So why does rom;ney and little boy ryan lie? You guessed it, they are flat wrong. ryan wants people to accept as a given that Social Security and medicare are "bankrupting the Nation yet ryan budget give trillions in tax breaks to corporation and the richest 1%! In ryan warped worldview if a household budget is stretched too thin because the family has an $800/month car payment the family cannot afford that amount a month causing them to have to struggle to provide food, clothing and shelter. In ryan's assessment the buying food, clothing and shelter is bankrupting the family not the luxury item. He doesn't see the irony that his proposed budget is giving away over a trillion dollars to corporations and rich people yet he has the audacity to blame senior citizen's benefits for the cause of our Nation's fiscal problems. On top of that he voted for two unfunded wars based on known lies and he still blames the grand parents for the Nation's debt, what a jerk..
G-9
My Great Granda used to tell me something similiar. He said that the funny thing about the white stuff on chicken @!$%# is that it is Chicken @!$%#. All your arguements are based on a pack of lies that came straight from the Annointed One's own mouth. Do your own research on the Ryan Budget plan and look for the Obama Budget plan (hint you will not find one). Read Obamacare is see where $500 Billion from Medicare/Medicaid even though Obama said that he would not touch those programs.
Get off the GIGO bandwagon and think for yourself. The Democrats, Liberals and Feisty don't want you to do that as they know what is coming from the right is correct but they sold their souls along time ago
Chuck -
Really? The tired old race card yet again? You truly seem to be out of original things to say, or even think.
Try, just this once, to hear someone say this to you - the only people who actually care about his skin color are democrats, who want to attempt to use it as a wedge issue.
A white man would not have caught the flack that Obama has? I hope you were giggling as you typed that, unless you have no memories of how Bush was treated for entire time in office, and of course even until today and beyond.
You are obviously a devoted Obama apologist, but you fail to claim any good things in Obamas record - you can only attack Bush.
Nice try, but you fail.
alltalkingpoints...Why are you using a deflective argument invented by the KKK? Perhaps you wouldn't be considered a racist if you didn't employ tactics invented by one of the most notorious racist organizations of all time.
...and please...please...defend yourself by saying "Rush does it all the time"...
Nice try, Shocked
But, the fact is as I said -
The only people bringing up the race issue at all are dems defending Obama.
Sorry if the truth offends you.
notalkingpoints - you need to be corrected! The only people bringing up the race issue at all are dems defending Obama. That is pure B.S.
Ever since he was elected, Obama has been called/referred to as an ape, first monkey president. Fat rush calling him the "black magic negro and halfrican.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/16/1100538/-Racist-Arizona-GOP-Radio-Host-Calls-Obama-First-Monkey-President
And some more reminders for you right wing lemmings in denial!
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-02-29/Montana-judge-racist-email/53307060/1
And lastly just recently Romney's campaign stating that Obama "does not appreciate the Anglo-Saxon heritage".
So stop the lies and and own the fact that it's the right wing and teabaggers who have started this race issue. NO respect whatsoever for the POTUS.
Fester hog -
It is the US Constitution (what you teabaggers like to quote) which says that Congress will write the budget of the USA not the President. So please get your facts straight.
Congress (Ryan) - Budget
Ask yourself why the 55 year olds get exempted from the ryan and rom;ney plan? With the same pen that they are signing the vouchers for the 55 year old and younger crowd they could do the same and prorate the voucher for the 55 and older seniors. But they don't because the GOP knows it is a rip-off and they could never sell it to the current seniors no matter what they make the voucher worth. ryan is a wolf in sheep's clothing acting as if he wants to protect social security and medicare by doing away with them. He learned well from the GOP liars to turn reality in its ear. Ask yourself, does it seem reasonable to claim that to protect something we must do away with it? Seems the opposite of protecting it. The GOP Rom;ney ryan all wanted to end social security and medicare so they fihure they don't fight the hard fight against the 55 years and older and they wait until the 55 year and older crowd is gone but by then the 55 year and younger crowd will just be realizing how bad they got screwed by ryan and Rom;ney. The people under 55 are too invincible to ever need Social Security or Medicare, right? Name one federal agency that is fully funded past 2037? Social Security. The liars in the GOP have been making the very same argument against Social Security and Medicare since they were first instituted. Namely, that grand ma and grand pa's meager sustenance is "bankrupting the Nation." The fact is the GOP dire "warnings" have never, ever, ever materialized in over eighty years of them telling us that it will come true. Where I live if you warn somebody that something bad is going to happen and it never does then you are wrong for screaming the sky is falling. Hey Rom;ney have you hidden any money in your off-shore tax shelter today? ROMNEY doesn't pay taxes for over a decade and he thinks he should be handed the keys to the kingdom. ROM;NEY is a CROOK we all knew he was a spineless flip-flopper and a habitual liar but now he has proven to the World he is a CROOK who cheats on his taxes. Once a CROOK always a CROOK. Interesting that the GOP nominated a CROOK so soon after Nixon resigned in failure. I figured it would have been another generation before they had the audacity to nominate a crook again. I guess I was wrong?
You have no idea what your talking about
Another wind bag. Why don't you site the plan like I did in the previous post. And let those that will read it make up their minds.
Please read it.
I do find it odd that Ryan cliams his plan will save Medicare, and then assures seniors that they are "safe" from it. Safe from what?
G-9
You are literally clueless in every measurable way in your post. Lack of knowledge is dripping off of your post.
I cant even bring myself to mock you......
G-9 Kudos to the post!
notalking and mhr - typical pathetic right wing lemming responses. If one can't respond in kind - they dribble baseless insults and denials. Yep, JUST LIE and DENY - and be in for a rude awakening if God forbid these 2 plutocrats ever make it to the WH. Then God help us all.
Hey I feel much better Obama is going to win again HA HA.
The GOP has no chance this is just too cool.
GOOD NIGHT THE PARTY'S OVER !!!!!!
Thanks GOP for the forfeit perhaps someday.
I'll feel better once the election is over. These Republican governors are still pushing all these voter suppression laws, and Republicans could still steal the election if we're not vigilant.
Good point Clotho...no way should the Right be allowed to stop all of those people from voting who have the right...oops, I guess my last part isn't really correct. Oh hell, don't let that little issue about citizenship stop them. Horrible thing to ask a voter to show a license that they most likely have in their back pocket because they drove to the polling place.
I just can't stand those damn Republicans...wanting to enforce those silly laws that a lot of people have died to protect.
Fairkidd you are ridiculous. Most polling places are within walking distance within a neighborhood. Most poll workers already know most of the people on the polling sheets. This is such a lame and devisive measure. My mother rest her soul came to this country as a child with her immigrant parents. My Granfather was Naturalized, which in those days naturalized the entire family. My mother never had a shread of documentation concerning her age. She never drove and voted in every election starting in 1940. It wasn't until the 1980's when she need a passport that trouble started with trying to dig up documentation. It took months to find documentation that would suffice the State Department that would show that yes she was born and she was a naturalized citizen. So don't give me this BS about fraud and needing to show a photo idea. Voting is a RIGHT not a PRIVILEGE
Why Romney chose Ryan as his running mate. If Mitt and Ryan win in 2012…that will setup Ryan to run for president in the future. Mitt is no one fool, Mitt is looking out 10 years by setting up Ryan as a potential presidential candidate. Look at what Ryan stands for as it relate to the super rich, completely eliminate the capital gain taxes so that those who are getting the bulk of their income from stock will get richer (that’s not your average American), put Medicare in a voucher program so that the current rich health care companies can get richer, and the elderly will have to pay out of pocket more than they currently have. I could go on, but why.
Mitt didn't choose ryan, Norquist did. Ryan is not a running mate, Ryan is Mitt's Moneymate!
Republicans cant win on Truth...and they know it?
Elvis
Which truth you talking about. The real truth or the Liberal truth? They are not the same
Elvis -
The republicans cant win on truth? Really? You, a devout liberal, are going to even mention using the truth?
Funny stuff. Really.
Hey fester and not, you believe the right wing echo chamber deals in truth? It's unbelievable anyone can believe that.
Medicare wouldn't be the only thing that he would take an offensive on.
The anti-christ (Mitt) is a bully. This is now fact. And what is that bullies do? Start wars.
Romney called Russia "our geopolitical enemy number one." "Russia, this is, without question, our number one geopolitical foe. They - they fight every cause for the world's worst actors," said Romney
After his career at Bain Capital where he helped outsource American jobs to China, Romney has now accused China of “cheating” and "stealing American jobs". He warned China that if he is in the White House, there will be consequences for unfair trade, “Unless China changes its ways.
Romney supported the invasion of Iraq and the "troop surge". Romney has expressed support for an eventual reduction in military presence in Iraq but has strongly opposed a timetable for withdrawal.
In a June 2007 New Hampshire Republican debate, Romney was asked if he agreed "that the use of tactical nuclear weapons, potentially, would be possible if that were the only way to stop Iran from developing a nuclear bomb?" Governor Romney responded that "You don't take options off the table, but what you do is stand back and say, 'What's going on here?
yes indeed ..fascism is coming in Gods name..have you notice the tea party....saying we need our country back...church and state..in Gods name to get what they want
Larry -
Half truths at best, outright lies at worst.
You proove your ability to ignore context in the Russia comment, as well as ignore the factual content of the remark.
You do an excellent job of being severely underinformed on Bain - seems that you think they did was outsource jobs. On CHina you actually broad jump completely over the meaning of what he said in order to assign your own meaning to it.
As far as the troop surge goes, good to know that you think that Romney was alone in supporting it, but there you are so off base that it actually becomes funny. And as far as a timeline for getting out - only an idiot tells the enemy "we're leaving on this date, so just hang on."
Congratulations - you have proven yourself to be a true believer liberal.....
Good grief another idiot liberal post. Who is surprised? No one.
our children cant afford Romney and Ryan
Elvis
They can not afford another 4 years of Obama/Biden
He doesn't see the i-ryan-y that his proposed budget is giving away over a trillion dollars to corporations and rich people yet he has the audacity to blame senior citizen's benefits for the cause of our Nation's fiscal problems. On top of that he voted for two unfunded wars based on known lies and he still blames the grand parents for the Nation's debt, what a jerk..
yes it's there debt..not ours..we did not create this mess...pay for your wars tea party..you have all the money in the bank and don't say your broke and can't
Elvis
Democrats voted for the wars too. Oh and the Tea Party was after President Obama came to power. Get your timelines straight as well as your facts
the tea party are the same people...just a different name...tea party..rich only??get it..let me help you out>>>>>Rick perry..was not and is now..a tea nut get it
Oh and Romney ?Ryan ..was not...and now is ..tea nuts..the people who gave us this crap .a recession 12 years of tax breaks???get it..they voted for this ression before they were a name. tea party...now they have a new name tea party?
Fester,
The tea's always say they started before Obama was in office so they didn't look racist. You better get your teabag manual back out.
Elvis
Here is a sampling of Democrats who voted for the wars in Afghan and Iraq that owned stock in Defense Companies: Clinton, Biden, Edwards, Kerry, Polosi, Reid........
Oh did i get my facts right Mrs Bauchmann..who was and is not and now a nut
G-9
So you are then denying that social security and medicare, along with military spending, are the three top drivers of both debt and deficit?
Yeah, that Ryan is SUCH a jerk that he wants for people to continue to be able to have those safety nets, not just let them go belly up like the liberal/democratic plan seems to be.
Go get some actual information, then try again - you are only making yourself look silly.
Means test Social Security. Lift the cap to half a million.
See? Social Security is saved.
Without screwing everyone younger than 55.
Besides...once the voucher system in in, do you really think it's not going to be used for everybody? The Koch Brothers need more yachts, after all.
Fester, the Democrats voted FOR the war because of a couple reasons, not knowing the Bush lies (all you need to check is the British transcripts from Downing St. as proof), but because of how emotional ALL Americans were from 9/11 happening. It was a perfect storm for Bush to do whatever he wanted without ANY pushback. You think Bush wouldn't have held any legislator to the 'public' fire for voting against the war? I don't understand how such an 'intelligent' guy like Romney could have so many brain farts. Has he ever come back with the low % he paid in other years (recent time, like 5 years) in taxes, since he said he'd get back on that, because he 'couldn't remember?' A NUMBERS guy who can't remember anything? Or how about Paul Ryan and how he grew up LOVING Ann Rynd and her 'self-serving' philosophies, but since he was being vetted for the VP spot, tosses her to the side and runs away from Catholic leaders wanting answers? The GOP love doing those carnival side show games while jacking your wallet, just keep watching the cups moving around, you too could be a weiner, I mean winner, Fester...
I see the same misinformation over and over. Social security has never added a dime to the deficit and is forbidden by law to add to the deficit. The right wing misinformation machine keeps people spouting things that aren't true.
where are our tax breaks forever Ryan..why did you leave us out of tax breaks forever??
Elvis -
As usual, your comprehension of what is going on is extremely limited.
So pay attention, and I will explain - You are completely entitled to those tax breaks, forever - assuming that you earn your money via capital gains, or that you manage to raise your income to levels that gets you those breaks.
Put another way - you can have those breaks when you earn them.
DON'T be FOOLED by the GOP argument. If the system is fine for 55 year olds and up then it is fine for everybody. It is a stupid argument to say they are in dire need of repairing these programs but the "repairs" don't need to be in place until 15 years from now. Sounds to me like there is nothing wrong with the system as is and don't mess with something that is not broken. It is a scare tactic to say it is going to =bankrupt the Nation because it is not. These con artists are good at selling BS but look through what they are saying. If social security was going to bankrupt the Nation it would have already as the GOP has been saying for the past eighty years. It never comes true because of the way it is designed. Nobody draws benefits unless they paid in to the system. Additionally, some people who pay in never draw any benefits due to an untimely demise or they are filthy rich and don't need a senior safety net. Don't buy the BS from ryan. Rom;ney is a CROOK still.
You got that right. I don't want medicare fixed cause they will leave the gen x'ers and everyone after holding the bag. I want the us to go down in flames quickly and let everyone suffer. Let the bondholders take the hair cut in holding us bonds if need be.....Also, The idea that a 45 year old guy like me needs to work until I am 70 to pay for a tax cut and a massively bigger military isnt' going to fly. and honestly, I don't care about the unemployed or bankruptcy cause I have a job. I am not gonna work an extra 5 years for this drivel. Aint gonna happen.
G-9
Your post is BS, and prooves only that you dont have any actual understanding of what is going on.
Perhaps you are happy just calling the republicans liars and scammers, or claiming that they are using "scare tactics", but in this you would be both narrow minded and very short sighted.
But the facts are the facts, and they contradict you - perhaps if you readjusted those rose colored glasses, you might see just a little more clearly.
Republican ideology: Say what you don't mean...and do what you don't say.