everybodys mama,

each year fewer and fewer people can afford health insurance which raises prices in two ways: 1)premiums of insured go up to cover the uninsured, and 2) more uninsured use ER as a mean to see a doctor.

each year, more and more were denied insurance due to their pre-existing conditions.

so stop denying like our current situation is roses and butterflies becuase the only ones that benefit currently is the health insurance companies and their record profits.

30 million more people with health care coverage, oh my, such a big mistake!

More people having insurance is not "damage", in fact, we have all been paying for people that go to emergency rooms and getting care for free for far too long.

Republicans are supposed to be about individual responsibility. This law makes it everyone's responsibility to have insurance.

That's a good thing.

I don't think that this is the best solution.

However-perhaps if Republicans had spent less time attacking this plan and more time coming up with their own-we would have a better solution.

There were real problems in healthcare, and all the republicans did was come up with new names for "Obamacare" and find different ways to call it socialist. I would have had a lot more respect for them if they behaved as leaders and offered their own solutions.

Don't like this plan fine. Come up with something better. If not-stop talking.

Now, the time for attacking needs to end and the time for making it work as best as possible needs to begin for the good of the country over politics.

It certainly improves my opinion of SCOTUS. However, upon first reading both the RomneyCare and ObamaCare individual mandate is turned into something more like "Please, Pretty Please buy your Goddamn health insurance." I just thank the Lord for Medicare.

Question: Do you agree with Supreme Court ruling on health care law?

Yes, I do.

time for the ring

If it's a tax how come Obama insisted it wasn't a tax. Why is it called a penalty.

in conclusion Obama has now levied the highest tax on the middle class and poor in history.

I guess the bright side is that we don't have to listen to all the left side crying like they have been for the last 2 years!

It's Bush's fault that this health care passed!! lol......

I suppose next everybody will be mandated to buy Pepsi instead of Coke, Chevrolet instead of Ford or whatever else the government thinks is best for you.

I'm still not sure how the government can mandate commerce.

Welcome to the U.S.S.A.

I WANT to pay for my healthcare. Now, I will be able to afford it!

Sure we can. Look at all the other nations that have socialized medicine. They get better results at lower costs than we have had.

uchusky99

I don't think that this is the best solution.

yes, it's far from perfect but now we can start working on it and make it better

However-perhaps if Republicans had spent less time attacking this plan and more time coming up with their own-we would have a better solution.

what's interesting is that the Republicans came up with the same idea back in 1993 (as an answer to Hilary Clinton's plan), and it included the same mandate that they are calling unconstitutional just because it bears President Obama's signature.

Titled the "Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act of 1993," it had 21 co-sponsors - 19 of them were Republicans.

Title I: Basic Reforms to Expand Access to Health Insurance Coverage and to Ensure Universal Coverage - Subtitle A: Universal Access - Provides access to health insurance coverage under a qualified health plan for every citizen and lawful permanent resident of the United States.
Subtitle F: Universal Coverage - Requires each citizen or lawful permanent resident to be covered under a qualified health plan or equivalent health care program by January 1, 2005

Republicans = lying hypocrites!

Boy, have you been bamboozled bayllie. So you think the way to bring down the "record profits" of those insurance companies is to force more people to pay for health insurance? Health insurance is the problem not the solution. Go to the hospital and tell them you do not have health insurance but will pay your bill with cash and see what they propose charging if you can pay in advance. I have done just that and the difference in cost is astounding. You can have care for 10% of the price they will charge the insurance companies, or less. At that level, we don't need health insurance. I repeat, insurance is the problem, not the solution. But you love your personal brand of politicians so much, you can't see they are in the pockets of the large insurance companies and have, once again, screwed you and the entire country for the sake of their own personal goals. The Court decision is probably right legally, but still unfortunate for the state of healthcare in the US.

How can you say that? This is wonderful, we women pay MORE for insurance than men....now we won't. Pre existing conditions will NOT DIE because they can't get insurance! You right wingers are insane! You just wanted it overturned because PRESIDENT OBAMA is the one that got it past. AND you right wingers have no memory, in the past it was the REPUBLICANS THAT WANTED THIS, they just didn't get it done!

The whining of the right wing lunatic fringe over this landmark Supreme Court ruling is nothing like the wailing and sniveling we will hear in November when President Obama is reelected! Yow!

sirie

I guess the bright side is that we don't have to listen to all the left side crying like they have been for the last 2 years!

It's Bush's fault that this health care passed!! lol......

sirie, that's the best you can do? that is kinda sad...

common sense has finally triumphed - rare since Tea Potty

this decision is truly a landmark - let's pop the champaign.

Obama just got re-elected with this ruling.

TO: Implacable Patriot who wrote:

"30 million more people with health care coverage, oh my, such a big mistake!"

The Republican plan for genocide against the poor and the elderly is NOT going to happen, thanks to the Democrats.

Obama/Biden 2012

A victory for humanity. The government will finally be able to help (subsidize) the poor and middle glass to afford healthcare. This is not a win for Big O , it's a win for the American people. Children , women, and those with pre-existing medical conditions. Individuals with low incomes will be able to get full medicaid. There are exemptions for certain groups if they choose to not get healthcare, they wouldn't be taxed. I believe we have the right to be healthy, only because we've created this civil society. Let's keep innovating our society to keep freeing us from these monetary shackles! BIG O 2012 !!!!!!!

Give 'em he!! Girl! If the RWNJ's had any plan for anything they just might have garnered some support as opposed to all this the President is just wrong and must go rhetoric.

What's YOUR plan Mitt? Oh yeah, the same as the President's on health-care. Any other plans? We're still waiting for them, and your tax returns while you're at it!

tack on a pre existing condition and the rates are even further out of reach.

The whole point of this is that there will be no more higher rates for pre-existing conditions.

Now these people are going to be fined for not buying what they can't afford?

Medicare will be expanded to cover these people.

Can you say REPEAL? Majority of people want parts of the law to stay intact, but don't want the mandate.

The parts of the law people like such as no rate increases/refusal of coverage for pre-existing conditions can't work if everyone doesn't have coverage. It would not be fair if someone has no coverage, gets diagnosed with a disease, buys coverage to pay for the treatment, then stops paying when they are cured. Everyone-healthy and sick need to pay for it to work.

My concern isn't that this law passed under Congress ability to tax. My concern is does this ruling give Congress the ability to raise a tax upon us in order to get us to purchase another type of commerce, like a hybrid car? I'm concerned that this gives Congress a back door way to force commerce around the Commerce Clause. But I'm not a lawyer, I don't know.

Yeah, my car insurance really went down when the government mandated that I have to have it -- NOT!

I don't agree with this plan at all. Health insurance is completely broken, but you don't solve the problems by getting more people on a broken system. As far as I can see, this plan doesn't do anything to address the real problems.

Young people up to 26 can stay on their parents' plan - just ask these people how great the healthcare reform has been - And the Supreme Court says 'yes' to that.

These young people have a better chance to achieve their 'American Dream'

Perhaps Justice Roberts has done the Republicans the hugest favor he could by calling the individual mandate a "tax," despite BamBam's pledge that this was not a tax. Roberts has verified what opponents of this bill have been saying all along: this is one of the largest tax increases ever foisted upon the middle class in this country's history. I can see this being a huge boon to Bammer now, but he better be ready for all of the political ads forthcoming shortly highliting his "this is not a tax" mantra.

.

To say that the president's program is unprecedented is wrong. We have many mandated, taxpayer-funded programs in America and I dare say that no one complaining about the health care bill would want them taken away. Public schools, fire departments, police, highway / roads (DOT), public libraries, medicare ... ALL of these and more are mandated and funded by taxpayers - they are SOCIALIST programs, in the words of so many who oppose 'Obamacare'.

When a powerful, extremely wealthy group like the insurance industry can sway public opinion against providing a basic, human necessity such as access to medical care for everyone, something is very wrong. Most small companies cannot afford the rates the big insurance companies charge, so the employees are left to find health insurance out-of-pocket. When working people making $50,000 per year are facing $1000 - $3000 per month to insure themselves and their families there isn't a choice. They simply cannot afford it.

Greed is the reason and fear is the weapon. Those who stand to lose a little to help many simply do not care - they want to give up nothing and, if they can, take even more. The health and well-being of their fellow citizens is meaningless to them. They use fear to twist the mindset of those too lazy or ignorant to think and research for themselves. They depend on that segment of the population regurgitating their lies without knowing or caring if they are true.

Many of the people opposing the health care legislation are receiving taxpayer-funded insurance already. Anyone employed by the government has their health care paid by tax dollars. Teachers, police, politicians and their staff - ALL have taxpayer-funded health care insurance. Of course it is meaningless to them that 'those other people' (the ones who are PAYING for THEM to have insurance) cannot afford to buy it for themselves.

We have become economic slaves to the insurance, pharmaceutical and medical industries because they have the resources to bribe those they pay to get into office. There is NO representation of the individual when the welfare of big corporations is placed above that of the individual citizen.

tax or penalty.. Chief Justice Roberts said the real essence of it is a 'tax' regardless how you call it...and Congress has express power to tax.

Finally. SCOTUS has done the right thing. Romney.. the Supreme Court just also validated YOUR ROMNEYCARE Plan too.

Obama 2

Romney/Republicants 0

Moheeheeko

"Its funny, becaue you never hear anyone whine about govt mandated Auto Insurance. Sure its state laws, but at what point when all 50 states have the law, do we call it like it is?"

You are 100% incorrect. You aren't required by law to have auto insurance. Only if you have a drivers license are you required to have insurance, and in many states its' only required if you own a registered vehicle. You could surrender your license and not be required to purchase insurance. Unlike the health care law, you have to have it no matter what or pay a penalty. Not to mention the obvious common sense fact, that driving without insurance would directly impact any person you have an accident with, unless you have the means to pay for their bodily injury and/or property damage out of your pocket. Which by the way, if you do have that means and can show proof of that to the state, you are not required to carry auto insurance. Unlike driving without insurance, this health care law doesn't effect other people if you go without insurance. It only effects your ability to get medical care if you get sick. Your argument is utterly inaccurate and untrue. Next time try to learn a law before you attempt compare apples and oranges. They both grow on trees, but are nothing alike.

Randy-617159

Boy, have you been bamboozled bayllie.

no, like many, I have a first hand experience with ins. companies choosing profit over human life. My friend lost her job but got a new one. Before she was able to get ins., she had to wait 90 days but unfortunately for her, within that 90 days, she found out he had a brain tumor. Guess what happened: DENIED DENIED DENIED!

So you think the way to bring down the "record profits" of those insurance companies is to force more people to pay for health insurance?

again, insurance companies are the only industry able to select their customers.They can discrimante against you if they feel you are going to affect their bottom line. Pick and choose the "cheap" ones right? Screw human life, right.

Remember, you are pro insurance profit only UNTIL it affects you, your parents, your spouse or your child. When the insurance company chooses their profit over the life of your loved one, I guarantee you that you will start singing to a different tune...I will bet 10,000 Romney bucks on it!

jpage000

You're right..... However, in 2012.. A good quality of LIFE in the United States of America requires "AFFORDABLE"

1. Food
2. Clothing
3. Shelter
4. Transportation
5. Healthcare

Q22, Most people do buy a car and it is the government that says you must have insurance if you are going to drive that car. Also banks mandate that if they give you a mortgage for a house that you also have insurance on the house. It is called accountability and responsibility! Yrs ago I couldn't afford health insurance (cost for me was 1500 per month) but after certain laws in NYS were inacted I was able to afford the premiums. What a difference to wake up every morning and not have to worried about getting sick and losing my home. People shouldn't have to say do I pay for food, electric, heat and gas for my car or do I pay for health insurance, all the while CEO's of insurance companies and their B.O.D. squeeze every dime they can out of you. They maybe be in it for the money but they are dealing with sick people and if the have no morals, ethics, compassion or empathy they need to get out of the business.

This landmark ruling by the SCOTUS will LITTERLY save thousands of lives and will result in decreasing health insurance premiums for tens-of-millions of citizens of the U.S.! It provides the opportunity for over 45 million citizens, who do not currently have ANY health insurance, to buy health coverage for themselves and families, and the rates will finally become competitive!

I feel like I am in this crazy nightmare and someone needs to pinch me to wake me...come on..I know the majority of you have brains...ALL of the things that needed to be done to fix our broken healthcare system were not going anywhere...insurance co's cant drop because of pre exisiting conditions, keeping our kids insured until age 26, etc...but this whole lawsuit that ended up in Obamas court was about the Govt FORCING us to purchase something...cant you people see that?? And now they gave Obama and his croonies the green light to FORCE ANYTHING they want on us..aslong as they call it a "tax." Americans ..umm the people who live in the land of the free and love FREEDOM are really truely celebrating the Obamas court's courts decision that we are no longer free to do as we please with our bodies and our money. Please someone pinch me...this HAS to be a nightmare...ouch..I really am awake....Goodbye Ole Glory...hello Union of Socialist Republic of America...Goodbye USA...hello USRA

Q22

Not a stupid line of reasonong. Just becasue you say so doesn't mean it's stupid. This is the most important piece the court has decided in a long time and I am very happy that some of the conservatives actually thought about it instead of knee-jerked it as they ususally do. I applaud Roberts on this one.

@ Eric 913730

Republicans are supposed to be about individual responsibility. This law makes it everyone's responsibility to have insurance.

That's a good thing.

Spot on. Spot on.

Just goes to prove that the Tea Party does not understand the Constitution!

Willing Sniper:

RE: your post #1.73

That's real Christian of you! You have 150 employees, most of them loyal, some for a long time, and all working for you to increase your wealth and you will treat them as a pile of dog sh*t? Speaks volumes about you as a person! Your a miserable SOB! In fact, I think you are lying about the 150 employees. I have been in business with many employees, for over 40 years and would fire, on the spot, anyone who dared say such a self centered, selfish comment! Your a NOTHING!

moheeko--- driving is a privilege, mandating auto insurance is ok in that aspect. you don't want to pay for auto insurance, fine. don't drive. mandating health insurance is stupid!!! unless the insurance companies lower their rates so that EVERYONE can afford it, there will be alot of people that will be even more broke! combine that with no more unemployment after the end of the year, and this is a recipe for disaster.

I find it hard to believe that so many people are so badly misinformed. I rather suspect you are merely repeating chants of political talking heads even though you know the chants to be untrue. Healthcare reform will save millions of lives of fellow Americans. Political party loyalty pales in comparison.

@Q22

You're not compelled to buy a car, true, but you're not compelled to go to a hospital when you are sick either.

By your analogy, we should not have pay for car insurance until after we are in an accident?

Anybody seen a bloated ego tooting around here? I'll need to check his registration and insurance.

Pay a $2000 fine on your tax return; Buy insurance, or go to jail. That's the choice poor will have. If a person couldn't afford it before; they really will not be able to afford it now.

Slow down there a minute snipe hunter. If you want us to listen, first we need to see your evidence about the $2000.00 fine. A link will do. And then, if we're still listening, help us with the math to understand the difference between "can't afford it" and "really can't afford it". We'll go from there.

Q22 - They didn't rule that heath care is a right. They ruled that the government can raise the taxes of the people who can't afford to buy their own health care.

People who can't afford to buy health insurance will be able to get insurance through subsidized insurance pools. Employers will get tax breaks for providing health insurance to employees. Medicaid will be expanded, which will help to have negotiated pricing on health care, saving us money in the long run. Employers who quit providing health care will be penalized enough to make them not want to do that, although they may be able to get better pricing through pools.

Pigotry

>This Supreme Decision has sealed the fate of Mitt the MisFitt.

>4 more years !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>O'bama/O'Biden 2012

It’s more like the Supreme Court and Obama have sealed your
fate, good luck in keeping your job. Obama will say to you, “Don’t disappoint us now Pigotry, millions on welfare depend on you to keep working.

Q22 this isn't a "tax on the middle class and poor" or "those who can't afford health insurance" this is a tax on those who are making the choice NOT to pay for health insurance...with the belief that if they do get sick, that the taxpayer will pay for their care anyway...OR that they are so rich, they can afford to pay for their care themselves and then when they run out of money ...the taxpayers will pay for their care anyway. Kind of like the people who don't purchase car insurance, for one reason or another....and they they get a huge fine/tax when it is discovered they haven't purchased car insurance. Duh!

I love all the people here having nightmares about the "death of America" and how we are now in the "U.S.S.A." when overreacting to the individual mandate. Let's flip the order around, shall we.

What happened when the government started forcing hospitals to treat uninsured people (aka, people who couldn't pay)? Did that ruling then extend to fast food restaurants? How about car dealerships? Sporting events? Electronic stores?

Nope. NONE of those industries were forced to provide their goods/services to customers who couldn't pay. Not a single one. And that was because everyone realized that healthcare is an exception.

The LOGICAL conclusion would be that this will not extend to those other industries. Then again, it is a bit optimistic of me to think that people would think logically...

That makes sense to me, dawg17. It's simple, to the point, and best of all, true. I'd like to think that pretty much anyone can understand your logic, if they take just a minute to question everything they have ever been told, and reach their own conclusion. We'll see.

Coffee time.

I have an idea,for anyone that donnot want to buy insurance for when you get sick,please do not go to the emergency care and expect for me to pay for you,I have no problem with anyone refusing to buy health care just donnot use the emergency where I have to pick up the bill when I go to the doctor.

MadDog17,you explained it where even a two year old could understand it,but there are a lot of people on here that are not mature enough to comprehend it.

I'm tired of anti-American right-wing Republicans attacking the "poor" in this country as free-loading lazy socialists. Many people with few means are extremely hard working and productive members of America and MANY fight our MANY wars for the rest of us. Stop attacking the poor, it's un-Christian, uncouth and un-American! This is a win for every American... just ask any emergency room doctor if they want to continue treating tummy aches in the ED because the poor can't afford to go to a regular doctor.

Now don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the act (I want to see it go into effect before I make an opinion on it first) however, is anyone as disturbed as I am that the reasoning Chief Justice Roberts gave was that the penalty for failing to buy health insurance was considered a tax? What else can Congress tax us on NOT buying? Can they tax us for not buying a microwave, or cable, or a radio?

Allen-968499

The Democrats were the ones who had the closed door discussions when writing the bill during the months of supermajority. What did you expect them to do? They (Independents and Republicans both) weren't involved in writing the thing and 2/3 of the country was denied the right to have their representative REPRESENT them on how their tax $$ would be spent.

so you are calling Boehner a liar?

House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) was adamant that some of the more popular parts of health care reform that the Democrats have been touting were actually Republican ideas, despite repeatedly saying in the past that no Republican ideas had been incorporated into the plan.

so are you lying about the Republicans having been denied participation or is Boehner lying????

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/04/boehner-in-feb-hcr-has-no-gop-ideas-in-it----boehner-today-populart-parts-of-hcr-were-gop-ideas.php

Q22

If it's a tax how come Obama insisted it wasn't a tax. Why is it called a penalty.

all anybody has to do is buy health ins. and no problem. Is it cutting in to your beer,chips, lotto, movies, pizza ...

Q22,

That's because you are not compelled to buy a car. Stupid line of reasoning there bud.

Actually, this is not a mandate. If you "never" seek medical attention that you can't afford to pay for out of pocket, you are not required to buy health insurance.

So, for those of you that are purists in your conservative thinking, never seek medical care or have a million dollars in the bank to pay for it. Your problems are solved.

In reply to the agument "if the Republicans didn't like the plan, they should have come up with something better" or "a plan of their own." This presumes that government should have anything to do with healthcare in the first place.

This attitude also foments an expectation that when, say, a plan for socialized medicine is put forth, that the correct response is a different plan for socialized medicine. So the left can present a socialist plan for just about anything, and the correct response from conservatives would be a less socialist plan? Conservatives must reject this notion. It will drive the country continuously to the left, and conservatives will do it all by themselves even if the left never prevails with its own plans.

I am reading the comments and I must say I am amazed to see how many misunderstand this new healthcare law. They think it will make healthcare fair and more affordable ... oh my. A few got it right, Q22, Redhead Ranting, as mean as he may sound Willing.Sniper got it right as well ... and a few others.

I'm still waiting to hear what those who don't like the ACA would do instead...instead of continuing to rail against this decision, what exactly are you objecting to and what would you do instead? If you don't like the mandate, that's fine...but given that hospitals are required to stabilize anybody who comes through their doors without determining their ability to pay, how would we hold accountable those who aren't responsible and are willing to take the risk of not having coverage. As it is right now, we're all paying for the loafers and deadbeats of society. The comments I've read so far say ACA will make premium unaffordable. Its unaffordable now!!!

You don't want the mandate to make people responsible for their own health coverage instead of the government, you don't like socialism but you love your Medicare benefits and Social Security checks....I may be wrong but the only direction this leads to is a single payer system which is a liberal ideal...but yet you would vote for Romney...how does that make sense????

Just wait until tax time and some of these people who thought this was a great thing won't get their full refund back because they failed to purchase health care insurance and the government took the cost out of their refund. It's not free! I can hear them b!tching now.

It is rare when a small town builds a grammar school without going over budget. When something as monstrous as this plan rolls out, who wants to place a bet with me that we end up learning that not enough money was built into the plan.

Yesterday we saw the city of Stockton, California file for bankruptcy...in large part due to the excessive costs of goevernment employees and their budget stifling pension and health care costs.

How many new state and federal employees will need to be put on the books to deal with the giant mysteries found in a 3000 page bill ???

Hide your dollars as best you can folks !!! Your overlords will be coming for them.

Another Oblama lie. Middle class tax hike. Just lie back and enjoy it.

In order to pass constitutional muster, the court had to redefine the mandate to be a tax, something the Obama bunch vigorously insisted that it wasn't from day one. If this isn't judicial activism, nothing is.

What this redefinition of the individual mandate does is put Obama in the position of enacting the most massive tax increase on the middle class in the history of this country, something he's repeatedly pledged not to do.

Just add this to the ever increasing list of lies from the mouth of Obama.

hjack 1.107
You should have said "just bend over and enjoy it". It's more appropriate.

A post script

- I'm not all that certain this will turn out to be a good thing for Obama. Time will tell.

Truesaid: First of all, people who can't afford to buy their own health insurance will be given stipends to purchase insurance.

As for Romney saying he'll repeal it....I guess he doesn't understand how the presidency works....you can't just go in willy nilly and repeal everything you don't like. He'll have to take it through the House and the Senate, and he won't get very far as long as we maintain control! It's ridiculous that he seems to think he's going to go in and just automatically change things....that's why we have the House and the Senate -- to level the playing field and maintain the law of balances. Good luck, Romney.....it ain't going to happen!!

Additionally, what most people can't seem to understand is that the MORE people who are buying insurance, the BIGGER the pool. Since insurance companies, by law, have to spend a certain portion of what they take in on insurance premiums on medical (and not administrative), they will be able to charge each insured less for premiums; the doctors will get more equitable payments, and all will be happy.

@Implacable PatriotRestored

30 million more people with health care coverage, oh my, such a big mistake!

Spending over a trillion dollars a year to cover 30 million people is beyond "a big mistake" Hell for that kind of money why not just give the 30 million a million dollars a piece each year? it would save over $999,960,999,999 dollars per year when compared to Obamacare!

I rarely call people stupid but you absolutely have to be if you think Obamacare is a sane and cost effective way to deal with the situation!

The SCOTUS actually screwed Obamacare... I recall hearing Obama and people in his administration stressing in front of cameras and microphones last year how the penalty was NOT A TAX.

As Devlin so eloquently points out in 1.111...

Spending over a trillion dollars a year to cover 30 million people is beyond "a big mistake" Hell for that kind of money why not just give the 30 million a million dollars a piece each year? it would save over $999,960,999,999 dollars per year when compared to Obamacare!

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. For the heck of it, I'd like to introduce the term "gazillion" into the parlance, just to see what happens.

Where should I start?

I can't understand why would any right winger here be opposed to law that was proposed by they own Party: republicans, and passed in state of Massachusetts with Former governor that running for president now. I can understand if the law was with public option or universal health care, but it isn't. It what you guys wanted, private market driven reform. The only thing government is doing is regulating. It forces insurance companies to cover things they should have been covering but in exchange for more customers to make up for some expenditure they will have. Where is socialist part in it? none. ACA not even effective until 2014, except few provisions(popular ones too). The reason why they couldn't have it effective right of way, because this is unprecedented program and they need time to setup for it. If you going criticize it at least wait until 2015 so you can see how it works first. If it fails miserably, I be for replacing with public option or universal coverage. The current system is sham that why this came up, due to greed of insurance companies. Do you know why republicans can't come up with alternative? because this was an alternative and democrats took it since they didn't have enough votes for public option bills. and if you really going to vote for Romney that singing to everybody that he is going to repeal it on day 1, funny how, only congress can and if democrats control at least one house, he is just wishing. if you so against this law, why would you vote for somebody that implemented same bill in Massachusetts and he said :

in October of that year, Romney told the Republican Jewish Coalition: “I think we’ll be successful nationwide. My plan, by the way, allows every citizen in America to get health insurance.” Asked by CNN’s John King at the time whether RomneyCare was a good model for the nation, he responded with a big grin, “Well, I think so.”

If you don't like the bill then vote for Ron Paul then, but Romney please.

Obama/Biden 2012

TO: joe-1387403 who wrote:

"Americangirl Are you serious? The Republicans have a plan for genocide aganist the poor? You are so very brainwashed... Anyone that thinks one party has all the right answers is stupid[.]"

Well, thanks for calling me "brainwashed" and NOT "stupid".

If one were to take away all the health care from one group, and then give Cadillac Insurance Plans to another group, which group do YOU think would live the longest?

As for "one party having all the right answers", why do think Republicans refuse to compromise on any level? Because they want to be the only ones to write all the rules (which Republicans have already done and those Republican Policies led to the collapse of the entire United States Economy, the loss of millions of American Jobs, and the foreclosure of millions of American Family Homes).

Obama/Biden 2012

Willing.Sniper:

Took me a while but I KNOW, not think, you are a TROLL! It's either that or you are the single most ignorant mind I have seen on Newsvine. Here are some examples of your utter stupidity.

1.) You claim in your post #1.84 that there is a $2000.00 fine imposed for not having healthcare insurance. In FACT there is no fine until 2014. The fine is $75.00 and not at all enforcable by ANYONE, even the IRS cannot levy against anyone who does not pay. The fine increase to a MAXIMUM of $675.00 in 2016. There is not enforcement at ANY time.

2.) In your posts number 1.73 and 1.79 you claim to have a company with 150 employees and you state that becausae of the ruling you will cancel the insurance for ALL those employees. WRONG! The ACA states clearly and forcefully that ANY company with 50 employees or more MUST offer healthcare insurance for ALL their employees. I may add that I doubt very, very seriously that you have even a hot dog cart for a business, but that's another story. I hope you do have 150 employees and I hope that all quit your company at the same time. If they do it will save you thousands and thousands of dollars in fines, which will arrive from Uncle Sam for refusing to provide insurance to those 150 emplyeees.

3.) As I stated in my post #1.78, I still think you are a NOBODY! Just a pile of dog sh*t, and a poor excuse for a human being. Have a miserable life!

New right-wing talking point: Middle-class tax hike. It's all over the place. (It's BS, but so what? That's what most right-wing talking points are...)

scrambolo, I firmly believe Willing.Sniper is a liar. And for those or you that cheer him for his statement about leaving his supposed 150 employees high and dry without insurance (which he can't do), you people are lower than pond scum. If, indeed, he had 150 employees, and they were aware of his intended abuse of them in order to make a political statement, I'm sure they would be delighted...

And, as you inferred, there is no jail for those that do not buy health insurance. Sniper is either intentionally lying about this as well, or should refrain from making posts about things he knows nothing about. Of course, that would seem to preclude him making any posts at all.

Scrambolo - pretty harsh, but then, I guess if it quacks like a duck...

American Girl - your gratitude for what you were not called shows grace under pressure. I believe that you are right, by the way.

bman - lots of really good points there. The idea of giving it a chance may be the best point of all.

Devlin - sometimes right or wrong is in the eyes of the beholder. What makes you a winner is that you show up to say your opinion. And that's what makes this America.

Good evening to you all, until next time.

we have all been paying for people that go to emergency rooms and getting care for free for far too long.

So rather than just STOPPING That foolish practice altogether, we're going to have government take over all health care and spend even more?

Incidentally, we have also been paying for people to have children when they couldn't afford them for 'far too long', we have also been paying for housing for people who couldn't seem to afford housing for 'far too long', we have also been paying for people's groceries who couldn't afford them for 'far too long'... There is no end to the list of things we pay out for when it comes to the 'needs' of others for 'far too long'. This .. is not the answer. You don't fix a broken leg... by Breaking The Other Leg.

So then.. will this begin a trend to get rid of ALL the people who are riding on the backs of others for "far too long"? Or are we just going to just use this health insurance scam as a guise to take money from people who have earned it to give to people who have not?

For all of you who are cheering right now, for all of you who just can't stop grinning from ear to ear over your 'victory'. you just remember the noise you made and the same smiles on your face this day when a few years down the road your government will be 'mandating' what you can keep in your refrigerator (have to watch that diet now, since we're paying for your healthcare!)

.... and when your all-benevolent government is "mandating" that you stand out in front of your house every morning for thirty minutes of good old-fashioned calisthenics (along with all the rest of your neighbors). After all ... A little exercise never hurt anyone.. and it DOES keep you healthier, doesn't it?? .. and keeps those health care costs down... "It's for your own GOOD!!" Yup... welcome to the rest of your life. No decision making necessary - your government will have relieved you of that burden altogether.

I know, I know... I sound like a crazy, ranting old fool... Government could Never do that! Why.. the next thing you know that old Miller guy will be trying to tell us that government will even been mandating the size of soft drinks you can consume!

(yes, I know the difference between local and federal government - I also know that it didn't take long for Romneycare to become ObamaCare. All you have to do is establish the premise... and your government will take it from there.)

TYLER TYLER TYLER

I give you post number 1.117 from Holding A Left Nut - "Sniper is a liar" "you people are lower than pond scum"

and you banned a poster for using the term "whiners"

"moderator" , is that code for "joke" ?

The divide is perfectly clear and reasonable.

The ones paying for it are against it, the ones that won't be paying for it are all for it. Go figure. That's why this country is doomed. Too many people have found that they can vote to rob other people (in the name of taxes) just by voting Democrat. At the end of the day, it's still armed robbery:

The taking of money or goods in the possession of another, from his or her person or immediate presence, by force or intimidation.

The threat of jail for non-payment equates to intimidation.

To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.

T Roosevelt

Based on the comments on this thread, it is staggering just how uniformed and misinformed so many people are - most willfully so.

Regarding the question of how the impoverished will afford the mandated health insurance- They Don't Have To. If you're living at or below 133% of the poverty line you are ALREADY covered by Medicare. Any addition coverage you desire will be subsidized based on your ability to pay.

The ACA is aimed at middle-class and working-class families. People who work, people who want insurance, people who need insurance, but people who are unable to afford insurance based on the extortionist policies of the insurance companies. NOW they and their kids will be able to afford coverage, making them healthier and thus more productive members of society.

If you're not happy about having to pay a "tax" for health care- guess what- YOU ALREADY HAVE BEEN. When an uninsured person gets sick or injured they go to the ER. The ER must, by law, treat them, at least to stabilize their condition. If the person cannot afford to pay out-of-pocket for the ER then the hospital rights it off and WE the taxpayers pay that cost. We are already paying for the uninsured to get medical treatment. All the ACA does is take YOU out of that equation. Now they'll be able to afford insurance so they can pay for their own medical treatment, so you won't have to.

This is win win.

The uninsured win by finally being able to afford health insurance.

You win by no longer having to pay for their treatment.

The nation wins by having a healthier and more productive workforce.

Our children win by receiving the medical treatment they need.

Win win.

the beauty of the scam is that all you young lefties AND your kids are going to be slaving for years to come to pay for my "health care" as I am close to retiring I will not have any "skin" in the game and I will be eagerly awaiting the inevitable "single payer" gubnerment crap so I can bleed the system for every nickle I can. I will be going to the doctor for every hang nail , bad bowel movement , headache , stubbed toe , etc etc and YOU will be covering every cent of it , I have no children and my parents have passed so I don't have a thing to stop me from taking advantage of and ripping off your "free" health care for years to come . Please keep the pressure on your ignorant lefty politicians to get MY free health care as I feel a case of gout coming on and YOU need to help me with some unecessary treatment.

...and be sure to tell your rug rats to get busy at the Burger King and get to contributing to my well being

oh and thank you for your support

Kiff

"The ACA is aimed at middle-class and working-class families"

haha...exactly , the largest tax increase in the history of mankind , and your lefty puppet masters told you that republicans were trying to control your life , so sad , but who cares as YOU will be paying for mine and your children will be working until the day they die...funny really

"You win by no longer having to pay for their treatment."

man , that is some seriously funny shyte!

some full strength Fool-Aide in that pitcher!

Time will tell how effective this health care law will be and whether we will be better off! One thing however is indisputable. Our health care, as it currently stands, is years behind the world’s best. We have the most expensive health care in the world yet the results fall well short of the mark. The SCOTUS decision further prolongs the misery of this ill- conceived health care “reform” that adds to the complexities of our system. I doubt that it will deliver the required results! But, perhaps this is the start of a long process of getting our health care system to deliver the standard of care we all deserve.

Tyler while i will hardly ever agree with a lib's thinking your suspending KMC for using the term "whiners is going a bit far. there are people calling others morons and idiots on here everyday, those terms are far more derogatory then that!

Get a Damn clue. It will cost taxpayers because those who do pay taxes will have more money stolen by the government through the irs to help SUPLEMENT those who cannot "afford" it.

Health care reform would have been much better served by passing things such as tort reform, allowing the importation of drugs, and reducing the fda's ability to block treatments and drugs that have been in use in other countries for decades without problems.

We also could be forcing illegals who keep running to the ER to have to pay for their services and ONLY allow them treatment in true medical emergencies. anything else they can run back across the border and get treatment.

There are also many natural things that help with heath problems such as walnuts, yet the fda bans them from listing scientifically proven benefits as they would then classify it as a drug and be regulated by them.

WE NEED TRUE MEDICAL REFORM , TAX REFORM SO NO CONGRESS AGAIN CAN REGULATE LIVES THROUGH TAXES, AND THE ABILITY TO REMOVE JUDGES FROM THE SUPREME COURT!!!!

THIS IS THE EXACTLY the type of crap our founding fathers fought against. taking things from them by force and over taxation. It is time for everyone to make sure your neighbor is registered to vote! There are more conservatives then liberals and it is way past time to quit letting them take more and more from us and telling us what is good or bad for us. It is time to let them know we are tired of working to support those that wont, when it means our families have less because they are taking from us!!

If you have to ask -

Thank you- Excellent posts!

Our children win by receiving the medical treatment they need.

As a veteran who's had to deal with the VA how that's working out for them.

(Sorry - was just curious, that's all)

thanks for your service Mr. Miller...and the gubnerment run VA has let you folks down for a long time

if you have to ask:

YOU NEED TO ASK! And I mean a lot of critical questions. And you need to listen closely to the answers from ALL sides of the spectrum. You need to ferret-out the FACTS! I agree the VA health system is not the best but AT LEAST it is there to help you, even if the care is less than perfect. It is much, much, much better than having NO HEALTH CARE OR NO HEALTH CARE INSURANCE!

thanks for your service Mr. Miller...and the gubnerment run VA has let you folks down for a long time...

Anyone who believes the VA health care system is insufficent - eiher has a fake claim (yes, we have Gold Bricks in the VA system - they were slackers when they went in the service, were slacker while in service and want to continue to be slackers now that they are out), the VA system is actually leading the Nation in serving its returning veterans.

They have put in place automated updates for scheduling appointments, multiple reviews on medication, safe guards to insure that the correct medication is sent to the correct patient. Yes, there is a triage system in place. if you need your toe nails trimmed, you will wait longer for an apoint than if you need heart surgery ... nothing wrong with that-after all, if every thing is an emergency, then you are right back to first come first served.

Most of te problems come when an injured service man in transitioning from Military hospitals to VA care. And that is in the process of being streamlined.

If Obama care reaches the level of organization that VA care has acheived. It'll be world class!

@dappel: You say that anyone who works for the government has government funded insurance. You are WRONG!WRONG!WRONG!

My husband is a public school teacher in Arkansas. His school district does offer the state run health insurance. The school district "kindly" covers $131 of my husbands personal health insurance premium each month. He must pay the other $275, and then he pays 100% of the premiums for any of his family he chooses to cover. For the employee and children it is appx. $500 a month. It jumps to $900 a month if you need to add the spouse. My husband has been a school teacher for 15 years and only makes $2700 a month after they take out health insurance for him and our kids (we can't afford the hit of another $400 a month to cover me) There is no way we can live on $2300 a month, as I have to stay at home to take care of our children: one is autistic, one is diabetic and one is post surgical ulcerative colitis.

So much for you assumuption that all "government employees" enjoy government provided insurance!

Especially for the 3 million children already covered under the Affordable Care Act. They can continue their coverage.

looks like chris needs to change his diaper

Let me guess!

The phony wannnabe "Outsourcer and Chief" Mitt Romney is Now for Universal Health Care, where yesterday and his whole election cycle he was Against "it", before he was For "it" back in Massachusetts.

No wonder nobody, and I mean Nobody, trusts this flip-flopper, poser, phony, and liar.

Let's face it: Hidden Swiss bank accounts, Off shore Cayman Island Tax havens, an Romney only pays a 15% tax-rate on the Money he does show, when the rest of us Working and Middle-Class pay much more,

That's why everybody, and I mean everybody must make sure the Party of George Bush, Dick Cheney, Karl rove, Haliburton, and Blackwater end up on the "Dung Heap of History" by Voting a straight Democratic ticket come this November 2012.

Moheekeeho,

There is a BIG difference. Nobody is required to have auto insurance. It is only required for people who DRIVE. Nobody is required to drive. It is an option. And, at that, they are only REQUIRED to carry liability insurance.

you are so right - finally the Supreme Court made a good decision

Yay! I regard Obamacare as a start to addressing health care. It was only getting worse every year. I don't think what's in there now will be the final, I think it will evolve, but at least it's a beginning.

Republicans have fought health care reform for decades. They will never support it no matter how much we try to work with them. They were for this before they were against it. It's just the way they are. They hate Medicare too (and Social Security). If they want to make adjustments, I'd like to see it. If they have improvements, let's talk about it. But they had no plan and did not offer a single suggestion they actually would vote for.

At least this is a start and I'm all for that and state insurance exchanges too.

Lets celebrate big ol' TAX, TAX, TAX, TAX, TAX, TAX! The american people are going to be completely against this huge tax increase! The devil is in the details. It is too bad the majority of America has no idea about the details of the this law and how that will impact them. Insurance premiums are going to sky rocket. Companies are going to to drop health insurance. Companies are going to hire more part time workers and less full time workers so that they do not have to offer insurance to the part time workers. Just what we need in America, more part time jobs and less full time jobs!!

Why would anybody buy insurace now? No pre-existing condition in 2014. Just pay the super small fee that is a fraction of the cost of insurance. If you get sick, then go buy insurance. Insurance premiums are going to sky rocket! America is doomed with this decision! This law is giong to lead to 100,000,000+ electing to not have insurance until they need it. The amount of people without insurance coverage is going to sky rocket due to freedom of choice to just pay a small tax.

sickened: I heard the same thing when Medicare originally passed and indeed some doctors did refuse to take Medicare patients. Then they watched their practices decline because seniors went to doctors who accepted Medicare. It is not the best law but it is a start in the right direction. People continually say they don't like the law but when you ask them which parts they can't say what they dislike. In that case, the right has done a fabulous job of misinformation; now the same people who disliked it without understanding it will be able to see just what the fuss was all about. And as the laws are enacted over time they will see the benefits. No doubt, there will be attempts to limit or destroy most parts of it, but I believe, in the end it will be viewed as a first step in a long overdue problem.

Pity: there are limits on what the insurance companies can charge, or did you miss that part. The part where they have to spend 80% on healthcare or refund to the policyholders?? Guess, Faux News didn't report that.

More like Go to Hell, Obama.

Roberts ruled the way he did because the court is not the place to protect people from their own bad decisions.

It took a majority of people to put the people in office who wrote this disaster. They put these people in office because they really didn't do their homework. On what these people really were wanting to do to them. All they saw is what they would get, not what it would cost.

In effect, Roberts just rolled the politcal climate right back to 2010.

Gilboagirl, Exactly. It's not perfect but it's a beginning and it's something we can continue to work on. We have two more years before it's implemented, we have time to look at it, make changes and keep doing that.

The difference is not everyone will need to use the Auto insurance...but EVERYONE will need health insurance at some point and I am tired of listening to the fear mongering,hand wringing, uninformed idiots who somehow can justify the fact that the Insurance industry posted record profits last year while being allowed to cherry pick the people they choose to insure. I am tired of subsidizing everyone who chooses not to have health insurance but sure shows up at the ER expecting the finest care the US can provide even if they have no way to pay their bill! Why is that OK? How is that not a burden to me as a taxpayer and as someone who pays over $1000 dollars a month for insurance because I had a tumor a few years ago? I am tired of paying for YOU to choose not to have insurance! Your "freedom" is interfering with MY FREEDOM to not support you and your stupid decisions.

Wow, sickenedbydiane, you need to take a deep breath. Doctor's won't participate? The health insurance companies are still the same ones that they accept now. Most every industrialized country has some form of universal health care and the majority are doing just fine. There is nothing that I am aware of in this law that puts a cap on how much doctors will make so why would they not be able to make money? Besides, do you want a doctor operating on you that is in it for just the money? The death panel has been debunked so many times, I've lost count.

We are all paying for the uninsured through higher premiums because the hospitals charge the insurance companies outrageous amounts to cover those who do not pay. SHAME ON YOU for being so stingy. I personally would rather pay more in taxes if it meant that the child born in poverty will receive proper medical care and maybe grow up to be the doctor who saves my life

I am so happy about this. I am middle class, work full time and am covered because of my job. If I didn't have my job I would not be covered and there are many more like me. Everyone deserves to be treated the same when it comes to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The issue with the repubs and the right is that they are greedy. Period. They care nothing for anyone else and all they see are dollar signs. I can't imagine being upset about this decision. Knowing that there are people who need health insurance and CAN'T get it and if there are pre-existing conditions you pay out the a**. Been there. This was a good decision.

I have a seven-year-old granddaughter who was born with Tetrology of Fallot -- a series of four congenital heart defects. She wad several surgeries and is doing just fine with no major restrictions on her activities.

When she was both her parents worked for a large industrial company and a major health care insurance carrier. Both had insurance, but purely by accident, both had selected a "family" plan instead of one doing the family plan and one doing the single (free) option. Just a mis-communication.

But when my granddaughter was both the costs were astronomical. Both the insurance companies paid on it. And there was some misconduct by the insurance companies, such as each counting both sets of insurance expenditures against their individual annual and lifetime caps. One of the plans (the one with the insurance company) "capped" out. The other was within $30,000 of being at the lifetime limit. And we know that my granddaughter will have to have another surgery when she nears adulthood to replace some chjild-sized dacron arteries with larger ones.

The effect of this on her parents were horrendous. They were skipping their own medical issues to save money against the lifetime caps. And both had offers of better jobs but could not take them because "pre-existing conditions" clauses would have meant that my granddaughter would not have been covered. My daughter especially was terrified as rounds of layoffs hit the insurance company. It was such a helpless feeling to see them at the mercy of predatory and dishonest insurance companies.

The Affordable Health Care Act really lifted a load off their shoulders. Suddenly the lifetime cap issue went away. And health insurance rejection for pre-existing conditions was no longer a threat. And new subrogation rules were enacted that kept insurance companies from counting payouts from other insurance from counting against their own caps and policyholders. And the worries about my granddaughters own health insurance fate were resolved --- she can stay on her parents' policies until she is 26 and will be able to get health insurance, in some form, on her own afterward. You simply cannot understand how much "Obamacare" (AHCA) has helped my family.

The CBO said in March that at least 20 million workers will LOSE their employer-based health insurance if ObamaCare stands.

I know I will dump my 150 employees off my company plan.

Yo sniper, it gets better. The court upheld the states right not to participate. So those working folks that don't earn enough to buy their own health insurance may not get their state medicade help paying for insurance and be forced to pay the tax for not having it. Poor people will be hit the worse. The part that the court struck down may hurt them the worse.

Willing, you must be a fantastic employer to work for.

Excuse me? "Obamacare" doesn't even come into effect until 2014!

They start collecting money and taxes from employers far before 2014. That's why no one is hiring anyone now.

@sickenedbydiane and others who think the same way - Huh? Just trying to understand your ranting makes my head hurt, really. And I thought I had a very "elastic" head that could absorb anything, even the most unreadable stuff like tax regulations, medical reports or law books - which it does. But the ranting and reasoning from the right is something that it totally refuses to comprehend.

What I wonder is: how do YOU manage to have these thoughts, so convoluted, so sense-less, so dark, and so wrong? Been watching Fox much? That will do it, unfortunately, it is a well-known mind-bender that most folks know to avoid. Either that, or bath salts ala Miami zombie (which makes me think: is Fox a bath salts abuser?)…

Let me take this slow, line by line:

“You think "wondeful" (sic) now because you THINK you are getting something for free of from the "rich", WRONG! “ – Huh? how do you know what he/she thinks? And why would they think *that*? I don’t recall anything about taking from the rich in the AHCA law, because there is none!

“This is going to bankrupt our country, one more step towards a muslim (sic) society, oops, the muslims (sic) don't have to particapate (sic) that's right. “ – Huh? This one really made me pause. I think I need to break it down a little further:

• “This is going to bankrupt our country” – huh? By making people healthier, making more people participate in the healthcare – thus putting more doctors, nurses, hospitals to work and creating NEW JOBS? By giving a jolt to our economy via additional cash flow coming from insuring/caring for more people? By saving taxpayers money that we pay through the nose now for uninsured people who do not have access to the CHEAP preventive care, and instead have to resort to the exorbitantly expensive emergency rooms? Seems you are totally wrong here, but
  please feel free to explain what you had in mind.
• “one more step towards a muslim (sic) society” – Huh? Don’t even know what that means. You mean the Obamacare somehow will result in mass conversions of Americans into the Moslem’s faith? Please explain.
• “oops, the muslims (sic) don't have to particapate (sic) that's right.” – Huh? Participate in the Moslem society or the healthcare mandate? Did you see something in the AHCA that said that – pls explain.

“You think "wonderful" as you and your family are "protected" and are one step closer to health care that you deserve, WRONG!” – why is s/he wrong? I think s/he’s right on the money!

“Doctors will not particapate (sic) and no-one will want to become a doctor because there is no money in it. “ – Huh? so, more people having the insurance to pay for their medical care means “no money in it”? um, that actually means exactly the opposite: more people are insured, more money for the doctors, more money in the economy. Seems you got it totally backwards.

“The overseers will deem you unworthy of more care one day because they think you are too old or sick to deserve it and you will be left to die by a committe (sic) of bearucrats (sic) who you will never know or see.” – Huh? Death Panels were found to be an unhealthy fiction of Sarah Palin’s 3 years ago, pls catch on with the news from 2009.

“You are twisted and perverted if you think this is a wonderful day, just like the Germans thought some of their days were wonderful and they got "free" health care.” – Huh? Something in particular you are referring to? Pls clarify

“Then the unlucky ones (hope you aren't one) got to have their "share" as they saw fit. The Jews, the mentally unstable, the disfigured, yeah that sounds WONDEREFUL doesn't it??” – Wow, this sounds totally like something my dad would say when he was alive: he had paranoid schizophrenia that made his life living h*ll. You might have it too, you should get checked, really. It is a fairly well treatable condition, Zyprexa/Olanzapine does wonders for folks with that condition – and I think the patent recently expired, so you may even be able to afford now, esp. with Obamacare.

“You will rue the day this terrible event tool place and we will remember fondly the "good old days", This country is barely over 200 years old and it's going down because of one president and the people like you who BLINDLY support him. SHAME ON YOU!” – take a deep breath. These scary things are really all in your head, and there is a way to make them go away. Just because it seems real to you, does not mean it really is real. Take care of yourself, OK?

Peace, ANV

I am a Republican, but I am happy with this decision. I and my family have good insurance as a retired US Government employee. My part costs me $430 a month, which is a bargain. I support the SCOTUS decision on upholding the health care mandate. Everyone in this country should have health care insurance, too many people die because of poor health care. If you have a heart attack and don't have health insurance, the ER will stabilize you and send you home with no follow up and a lot of people die because of this. I wish it could have been a single payer system so we could get the insurance companies out of the loop and out of our pockets, but this is a start and better than nothing.

Bob-1440886 Yay!!! The fat useless non-working lifetime welfare cases win again!!!! You have another reason to stay on your couch. Thank you hard working Americans for sharing your hard earned wages with them.

Ah, Bob? You need to take your medication. That segment of the population already has health care insurance - called Medicaid - taxpayer-funded. This program is for people like me, earning a bit over $50,000 a year and not able to pay $2,000 a month for health care - assessed due to what the insurance industry deemed to be a "pre-existing condition". I have NEVER accepted a dime of welfare money and have worked since I was 16 years old. I have paid taxes for more than 40 years that have been used to PAY FOR HEALTH CARE FOR THOSE UNWILLING OR UNABLE TO WORK and THOSE WHO HAVE HEALTH CARE INSURANCE PAID BY THE TAXPAYERS, while I am left without access to quality health care.

I am delighted that there may, finally, be an option for those, like myself, who want to carry health insurance but are financially unable to afford to do so.

By the way - how is YOUR health care paid? By a company? That means that whenever I purchase products from that company part of that money goes towards YOUR health care insurance. Or maybe you are one of the many who have taxpayer-funded health care because you work for some part of the government? Or maybe you get your insurance from one of the bailed-out big corporations - which STILL MEANS WE ARE PAYING FOR YOUR INSURANCE! Bob, am I (and others like me) paying for YOUR health care insurance while we cannot afford to get our own coverage? If so, please turn in your health insurance card and pay out of your own pocket for a while - then tell be that affordable health care insurance for ALL AMERICANS is a bad idea.

While you're at it - turn off FAUX and try actually READING the legislation. It is not a bad program. I will say that, had we gone with the original legislation Obama proposed, it would have been equitable for all Americans. But that would have cramped the earning potential of the insurance industry that pays off our politicians.

Never Stop Asking Questions

How humane and "Christian" for the Reichwing to want to deny 30,000,000 people health insurance.

All the Right cares about is guns, money, patriarchy, and heterosexuality.

Was that meant to be irony? The left is the ones screaming about guns, people with "too much money", constantly defends real life patriarch groups (look up how women are treated in Iraq and in Muslim countries sometime), and literally marches in the streets for the rights of homosexuals to partake in a Christian ceremony.

30 million being forced to buy something that's freely available now at a higher rate to cover the beaurocracy expenses is just a weird stance considering there were 50.9 million uninsured in 2012. Do you just not care about the other 20.9 million uninsured people?

Welcome USA thanks for pointing out Mitt's agenda in three words!

I wonder how many people who support this mess of a 3000 page law could write three pages of facts that are actually in it ???

Not very many, I'm sure. And the President knows that fact very well. An unexplained law with unforeseeable future costs. Our government does so very well in handling matters like that !

Surprise! Roberts has shown himself a traditional conservative aot the radical new wave therof. The rule that a law is constitutional if any constitutional basis can be found for it has been established for many many years.

From a very simple perspective...

The Law has no teeth or simply no recourse if an individual decides not to purchase insurance. Why would those at a lower income bother getting insurance? Since we will all now be covered and the health care costs will climb to cover those uninsured...more people will not be able to afford the increasing costs of HC and join those that do not pay. Eventually those that do pay will be the top 1% and the government will pay the rest. How is this a victory?

I bet anything it is all those "other" things attached to this law that matters.

How come the resource of oil is globally traded but the most important resource human resource is locally traded?

It is a start where it goes from here is what counts. Do you even know what the health care bill says or are you just taking someones word for it? It is only 974 pages go read it. I am sure it will be adjusted and will be nothing like it was meant to be.

For those of you who actually don't understand what the Affordable Care Act means....here's a synopsis of some of the things that it will provide:

1. Lets millions of young adults stay on parent's insurance under age 26.

2. Ends insurance company power to cap the amount of care a person can receive in their lifetime.

3. Stops insurance companies from canceling coverage when someone gets sick.

4. Lowers the cost of care for those on Medicare and helps seniors save money on their medication

5. Requires insurance companies to cover preventive services like mammograms free of charge.

6. Strengthens and protects Medicare by increasing penalties for fraud.

7. Stops insurance companies from denying coverage to children with pre-existing conditions.

8. Ends insurance company power to jack up rates without justification.

9. Provides Americans with rebates from insurers who spend too much on CEO bonuses and ads.

10. Gives tax credits to small business owners so they can afford to offer quality health care for their employees.

11. Builds and improves hundreds of community health centers

12. Gives hard-working Americans tax credits so they can affor insurance beginning in 2014.

13. Ends discrimination against adults with pre-existing conditions beginning in 2014.

AND

14. Prevents insurance companies from charging women more than men and overcharging those who need care the most beginning in 2014.

None of this sounds all that bad to me. Granted, there are parts of the ACA that needs to be "tweeked," but I think as the plan formalizes, the kinks will be ironed out and the plan will become streamlined to fit everyone and do the job it's meant to do. We just have to be patient and let it work itself out, but this is a GREAT start!

YEAH!!!!!

Nice post again Didi..........tweeking will only make it better, then again the repubs pledged the day after President Obama's inauguration to sabotage everything to make him a one term president. So to make it even better......

VOTE OBAMA/BIDEN 2012

Where should I start?

I can't understand why would any right winger here be opposed to law that was proposed by they own Party: republicans, and passed in state of Massachusetts with Former governor that running for president now. I can understand if the law was with public option or universal health care, but it isn't. It what you guys wanted, private market driven reform. The only thing government is doing is regulating. It forces insurance companies to cover things they should have been covering but in exchange for more customers to make up for some expenditure they will have. Where is socialist part in it? none. ACA not even effective until 2014, except few provisions(popular ones too). The reason why they couldn't have it effective right of way, because this is unprecedented program and they need time to setup for it. If you going criticize it at least wait until 2015 so you can see how it works first. If it fails miserably, I be for replacing with public option or universal coverage. The current system is sham that why this came up, due to greed of insurance companies. Do you know why republicans can't come up with alternative? because this was an alternative and democrats took it since they didn't have enough votes for public option bills. and if you really going to vote for Romney that singing to everybody that he is going to repeal it on day 1, funny how, only congress can and if democrats control at least one house, he is just wishing. if you so against this law, why would you vote for somebody that implemented same bill in Massachusetts and he said :

in October of that year, Romney told the Republican Jewish Coalition: “I think we’ll be successful nationwide. My plan, by the way, allows every citizen in America to get health insurance.” Asked by CNN’s John King at the time whether RomneyCare was a good model for the nation, he responded with a big grin, “Well, I think so.”

If you don't like the bill then vote for Ron Paul then, but Romney please.

Obama/Biden 2012

DiDi -

Congratulations - you have encapsulated the DNC talking points about ObamaCare very well.

But, if you dont mind, a couple of questions for you. First one - you admit that some things may still have to be tweeked in this act. Effectively, the debate has raged on for 3 1/2 years, and things still need to be tweeked? How is that, that it could possibly need more tweeking after this much time and energy?

Second - you make the point of saying as the plan formalizes, the kinks will get ironed out? What on earth makes you believe that the plan is not formalised? What makes you believe that the plan will be any better after tweeking?

Third - how exactly is this a great start? Is it the giant tax increase that it now is, formally, or the fact that this act does precisely nothing, except in a minority of cases, to control the underlying problem, which is the cost of healthcare? Or is the great start that everyone will pay more for healthcare now?

Continuing the third question, is the great start that at minimum 20 million people will actually lose their employer provided healthcare due to this act (from the CBO) and will thus be paying massively more for their health care?

Fourth question - I wonder how you think that a law that is 2700 pages long can be streamlined, or be made to fit everyone. Or perhaps you think that the IRS and the tax code is streamlined and works very well, and fits everyone.

Fifth question - perhaps you can tell me how it is that this act is good for me, when my health care costs are going to skyrocket as a result of the company I work for dropping their insurance coverage of employees, thus making insurance out of reach for me. Unless of course, me becoming dependant on the government for assistance in paying that cost - something I proudly say I have never done (ask the government for help of that kind) - and becoming a burden on taxpayers in that way.

A great start? Pardon me, but I fail to see how.

Did - most americans, especially the business people understand Affordable health care

2001 - 2009 Premiums averaged 12 - 14 % per year

2010 18 - 45% increases in premiums

2011 18 - 30%

2012 So far 20 - 30% increases

Willing Sniper. I feel sorry for you if you really do employ 150 people. I will make a safe bet that most of those employees will be searching for new jobs as soon as you do that. Not very buisness smart on your part to loose all of that investment into your core employees, the cost of training new ones, etc I am pretty sure will exceed the savings you may make by dropping insurance, which leeds me to believe that you are full of hot air and don't even own your own company. Why don't you tell everyone your real name and what company you run so that your employees can get a head start on their job search.

In some respects it is too bad the Court didn't come down against the health care legislation. It would give an opportunity for single payer health care for all. I know this would never pass with the Congress we have now. But, it would be the best answer, instead of this pieced together law, that has room so every can find something they don't like. But, with the way politics are now and probably will be after the election, it is better to have one in the hand than two in the bush. Hopefully, as time goes on and the mix in the congress will change so improvements can be made on the existing law. It will take time, Time for this country to weed out the legislators that have been causing the stale mate in the congress. Hopefully some of these people will have worked in Washington for the last time, come the end of the year. Time to remove or not elect any nay sayers. They have no insight or have any faith in the future of this country.

"This is going to bankrupt our country" – huh? By making people healthier, making more people participate in the healthcare – thus putting more doctors, nurses, hospitals to work and creating NEW JOBS? By giving a jolt to our economy via additional cash flow coming from insuring/caring for more people? By saving taxpayers money that we pay through the nose now for uninsured people who do not have access to the CHEAP preventive care, and instead have to resort to the exorbitantly expensive emergency rooms? Seems you are totally"

making people healthier, hahaha that's a laugh in and of itself , you are still going to be "paying through the nose" (if you even work) because the people you are talking about are NOT going to be buying insurance they will be jumping on the expanded Medicare/Medicaid roles , did you even read the 2000 page bill?

"It would give an opportunity for single payer health care for all"

you are right Johnny , you and your children would get the honor of paying for all the unecessary doctor visits that I intend to make in my retirement , I am glad you young lefties are so fired up to give me free crap , just make sure your kids are getting those McD's jobs (probably be all they will be qualified for) so they can pay for my easy street , I am really excited about getting my entitlement mentality going on .

"1. Lets millions of young adults stay on parent's insurance under age 26."

...and live in their basement and post on newsvine

"2. Ends insurance company power to cap the amount of care a person can receive in their lifetime.:

...at least up to the point where their policy gets canceled

"3. Stops insurance companies from canceling coverage when someone gets sick."

...doesn't help when they shut down their company (you can't get blood from a turnip)

"4. Lowers the cost of care for those on Medicare and helps seniors save money on their medication"

...how? , nevermind , talking points are over rated

"5. Requires insurance companies to cover preventive services like mammograms free of charge."

...there is little data that mammograms decrease the mortality rate from breast cancer (and yes , my mother died from breast cancer)

"6. Strengthens and protects Medicare by increasing penalties for fraud."

...is that a case that a liberal Attorney General IS inclined to persue? (it is so hard to tell with the likes of our current AG)

"7. Stops insurance companies from denying coverage to children with pre-existing conditions."

...again , a moot point if they go out of business , and most will before long

"8. Ends insurance company power to jack up rates without justification."

...and who gets to decide what is "justified"? , you?

"9. Provides Americans with rebates from insurers who spend too much on CEO bonuses and ads."

... in other words your gubment will be in charge of insurance companies?

"10. Gives tax credits to small business owners so they can afford to offer quality health care for their employees.'

...those businesses will not be "offering" insurance , they will be smart enough to let you enroll in the state "pool" and let you deal with it

"11. Builds and improves hundreds of community health centers"

...I thought that was what Planned Parenthood was for

"12. Gives hard-working Americans tax credits so they can affor insurance beginning in 2014."

...aren't "tax credits" bad? , oh , they are good if liberals dream them up , my bad

"13. Ends discrimination against adults with pre-existing conditions beginning in 2014."

...you and yours are going to force them to take on customers that don't want? , and you are going to tell them what rates they can charge for the extra liability? , won't help a thing if they shut their doors

"14. Prevents insurance companies from charging women more than men and overcharging those who need care the most beginning in 2014"

...gotta recoup on that birth control expense somehow , or does that stuff grow on trees?

nothing you posted is going to make a bit of difference because as we all know (but lefties won't admit) this is just the first step to forcing insurance companies out of business and leaving no alternative but to get on the taxpayer funded "single payer" European socialist health care train hurtling into the side of a mountain.

and since when did insurance companies become "health providers"? , your "health" is between you and your doctor , how much they are willing to pay of your "health care" is a deal you make with an insurance company , it's so simple even a libby should be able to grasp it , but then again , maybe not

That's why no one is hiring anyone now.

No, it's called supply and demand. Demand drives manufacturing which drives job creation. Do you honestly think that a business would not hire even if they couldn't keep up with demand just because they had to contribute to employee health care? If so, I will show you a business missing out on a lot of revenue.

I for one am sick of paying yearly increases in health care so people can stay uninsured and not pay anything into it. I am tired of footing the bill for others.

30 million new payers into the system at even 10 dollars a month is almost 4 billion less a year we have to pay in jacked up health care to pay for those that currently pay nothing for treatment.

"too many people die because of poor health care."

ya....so get ready superman , if you are as young as you sound , you will eventually be saying:

"too many people die because of poor government health care"

haha , and please work hard so you can pay for my entitlements

Allen, marriage is not a Christian ceremony - it isn't even a religious ceremony. You may be thinking of "holy matrimony" (although I doubt it), but...and this may come as a shock to you...even Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc., are able to get married, and none of those religions are Christian. Congratulations on your narrow-mindedness, though. By the way, Jesus never said a thing about homosexuals, so that might throw yet another wrench into your "Christian" diatribe.

Nice to see a bill like Obamacare, one that tries to help all people, can be vilified by the so-called Christian right...what a bunch of hypocrites.

Nice to see a bill like Obamacare , one that lays the largest tax increase in human history on Americans , can be hailed by the so-called Amoral Liberal Left , the champions of the middle class

ya...tha's about right

All the time! What do you think government contracts are?

Gee, I guess there are no such things as government contracts to private companies (like those that develop military weapons systems). [sarcasm]

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power."
- Benito Mussolini

Sorry Moose,

The teabirthers have redefined fascism as "liberal, leftist, socialism" because they got tired of being called fascists. Facts don't matter.

Govt contracts are the govt spending taxes AFTER we pay it to them. No private citizen sends tax payments to a govt contractor.

so... eliminating the middleman = eliminating gov't waste. You should be all about that!

One must remember that these Supreme Court Justices are American trained lawyers, just like Miami ambulance chasers. I don't see any difference.

Oh so Mussolini was actually the father of the tea party? How can I rewrite the definition of fascism that was given by its pioneer in the 1920's if I was not born until 60 years after? I will agree that the definition of fascism has been changed, it has been changed by fascists who tell us it means people who are mean and nasty and prejudice. When our government can FORCE people to purchase a product that they might not have otherwise purchased, that is the merger of state and corporate power, and by Mussolini's own definition, fascism.

So now not forcing other people to pay for something is the same as denying you that same thing? Seems like you stopped asking questions a while ago.

Facsism's economic principle is socialism. It always has been a leftist ideal.

We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions.

- Adolf Hitler

As socialists, we are opponents of the Jews, because we see, in the Hebrews, the incarnation of capitalism, of the misuse of the nation’s goods.

- Joseph Goebbels

Every collectivist revolution rides in on a Trojan horse of ‘emergency’. It was the tactic of Lenin, Hitler, and Mussolini.

- Herbert Hoover

Gold is not neccesary. I have no interest in gold. We will build a solid state, without an ounce of gold behind it. Anyone who sells above the set prices, let him be marched off to a concentration camp. That’s the bastion of money.

- Adolf Hitler

Fascism recognises the real needs which gives rise to socialism and trade-unionism, giving them due weight in the guild or corporative system in which diverent interests are coordinated and harmonised in the unity of the State.

- Benito Mussolini

The largest tax increase in the history of the world. Would it have passed if they called it what is is?

At least we don't have to wonder if the Senators that took bribes to pass this tax incresase will have to return those bribes.

Say goodbye dems. You're done in November.

I challenge those who are rapidly against the healthcare reform to explain why your stance is correct to a parent who's child was born with a congenital heart defect. A parent who before this health care reform were not offered any coverage for their child even if they had health insurance. A parent who can now see their child treated.

I'm not interested in your selfish views, but see the reaction you get to your views from a parent in the situation above.

Hey, Moose, ever hear of Social Security (a retirement product) and Medicare (a health insurance product)? You pay for those products ever time your employer cuts you a paycheck. Oh, and don't give the tired, old "Those are public products, not private products" nonsense. Unless, of course, you'd like the government to take over the entire health insurance industry and make it a public product.

Goodbye USA hello Union Socialist Republic of America

Why SHOULDN'T every American have health care insurance? We taxpayers pay for the health care of the uninsured every day. Hospitals cannot legally turn people away who need medical care - with or without insurance. Therefore the uninsured get treatment, can't pay for it (because they don't have insurance) so it adds to the costs of health care for the rest of us who do pay for insurance.

If you want to allow people not to pay for health insurance, then allow hospitals to turn them away untreated. Just as they have a right not to have to pay for insurance they don't want, we taxpayers have the right not to pay for the health care they cannot pay for without insurance. Sound cold enough for you conservatives?

If I choose to drive a car I am required to have auto insurance. Therefore if people choose to seek medical care then they should be required to have health insurance. And eventually all of us need medical care.

I'm most encouraged that the Supreme Court upheld ObamaCare. In a civilized country people should have access to medical care. This should even things for all of us.

@ Krestov,

My issue is simply, who is going to pay for it. And putting the burden on business will add to a business cost and therefore reduce the positive impact on the economy. I agree with burdening individuals, i.e. the tax ruling.

Obviously something has to be done. And I don't like the whole, making the other side's voters pay for it. I'd rather see us implement a 5% tariff against Chinese goods and use that money to pay for healthcare costs for all Americans.

Just my 2 cents.

@JH, because yes we can pay for wars (even though Bush didn't), but paying for health care is "wrong" or "socialist".

JH -

The largest tax increase in the history of the world. Would it have passed if they called it what is is?

This may be the largest tax increase in US wartime history. The largest tax increase in US peacetime history was during the great depressrion. The revenue act of 1932 under Hoover raised the top rates from 25% to 63%. The result was a double dip recession and FDR's inaguration. We will see what happens this time.

@Moose8684

Unfortunately, there is little proof that Mussolini actually said those words. The "corporatism" mentioned comes from the thinking of the day to organize society into groups sharing common interests, such as agriculture, science or business.

That said, there is little doubt that the merging of government and corporate influence is a dangerous situation that is currently escalating.

The main problem with US healthcare is that it is far and away the most expensive per capita in the civilized world. This bill does nothing to address the cost issue. It only mandates coverage. If it would lower costs, then why the need to levy a tax?

We are not paying for wars. We are borrowing money for those wars. We do not have the money to pay for health insurance. We will have to borrow that money also. Take a look at greece. thats where we are heading.

And otoh, I dont know anyone that is not stuggling with job loss or reduced work hours. exactly where am i supposed to get the money to pay for health care. quit eating?

@cdahl

Totally understand where you are coming from, I wonder if a healthier America will mean a more productive America, OK that sounds like a bad campaign slogan.

I just think we have forgotten there are people involved here, I would prefer an across the board tax much like we pay for medicare and social security. So people screaming socialism shouts out to you missylovesrobby are being disingenuous.

I don't look up to Canada with their universal health care and think "wow look at that Socialist country to the north"

UNBELIEVABLE! Some of these comments, facism and private industry collecting taxes - did you read the article??? The IRS will collect the "penalty" on your tax return. SCOTUS concludes that it is, in fact, a TAX and, while Congress cannot apparently coerce us to buy broccoli, they can tax us for NOT buying the broccoli. Look, I think this decision SUCKS but I predicted this would be the result. Change a few words and it's legal, corporations and facism are irrelevant in all this. Grow up already!

Pyrrhic Victory

Facsism's economic principle is socialism. It always has been a leftist ideal.

We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions.

- Adolf Hitler

As socialists, we are opponents of the Jews, because we see, in the Hebrews, the incarnation of capitalism, of the misuse of the nation’s goods.

- Joseph Goebbels

Every collectivist revolution rides in on a Trojan horse of ‘emergency’. It was the tactic of Lenin, Hitler, and Mussolini.

- Herbert Hoover

Gold is not neccesary. I have no interest in gold. We will build a solid state, without an ounce of gold behind it. Anyone who sells above the set prices, let him be marched off to a concentration camp. That’s the bastion of money.

- Adolf Hitler

Fascism recognises the real needs which gives rise to socialism and trade-unionism, giving them due weight in the guild or corporative system in which diverent interests are coordinated and harmonised in the unity of the State.

- Benito Mussolini

Yeah because Hitler Mussolini and Goebbels NEVER lied. pffft!

also they called them Hoovervilles for a reason. The idiot stated that people with money would simply help others --they didnt. then that SOCIALIST FDR came up with the CCC and other programs that saved America, and they loved him as proven by the four terms he was elected for president.

Conservatives need history lessons BIG time!

Who cares about the Health care law and debate, You who approve this have just said it is OK for Congress to tax your behavior and what you choose to buy and not buy! With this desicion the congress can pass a mandate to "tax" you if you don't buy a green car, if you're not married by 27, if you don't buy a car from General Motors, if don't buy vitamins. By letting this mandate stand you have single handedly gave the government power to rule your lives through taxation.

"So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause"

Just goes to prove that the Tea Party does not understand the Constitution!

(and that goes for most of the rest of the GOP as well)

"The mandate, requiring every American to purchase health insurance, appeared in a 1989 published proposal by Stuart M. Butler of the conservative Heritage Foundation called "Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans," which included a provision to "mandate all households to obtain adequate insurance."

NOW watch the Nuckin Futty RWNJ's to pivot from

JOBS JOBS JOBS

to

REPEAL REPEAL REPEAL....

It's ALL about the promises & money with the health care industry

and not one iota about the HEALTH OF THE AMERICAN CITIZEN !

The ENTIRE GOP needs to be IMPEACHED for service to industry over citizens .

Krestov

We live in a great country. This country has always taken care of our citizens that are really in need. We are already taxed plenty to take care of the needy. This Obamacare POS was always a tax. He lied to the American people to pass a new tax that will cost too much in the future and it will cost you and me and every generation from now on far more money than it will be worth. We need health care reform in this country but all we got was a tax that will go on forever unless we do the right thing and elect Mr. Romney to get rid of this POS and do real reform.

Nobody is against the few good things this POS does. But the bad parts of this so-called reform are going to kill the American dream for many Americans. I am an employer that will take a very hard look at what I offer from now on. I am sure that I will not be able to afford what this POS will do to my ability to make money and continue to employ people and offer good health insurance to them.

Mr. Fids - So friggen what if the Heritage Foundation suggested something in the past. I have heard many hair brained suggestion from left leaning groups in the past. Should we adopt everything that someone suggests? That is just a dumb azz leftie talking point.

Anybody care that the Government can now MANDATE you buy something? Anyone care they can MANDATE your behavior through taxation? ANYONE??

Chuck -

Yeah because Hitler Mussolini and Goebbels NEVER lied. pffft!

Ummmm.... are you asserting that Nazi Germany didn't have a socialist economy? All workers were organised into one state owned union. All corporations were controlled by the state and had output quotas. Nazi Germany imposed strict gun control on its citizens. Sounds like government controlling/socialist policies to me.

Someone once asked me that if the Jews knew what was happening to them, why did they hardly fight back? Maybe part of the answer is because they had no means to fight back as the Nazis had confiscated most of the German citizen's weapons. JMO of course.

The idiot stated that people with money would simply help others --they didnt.

He tried to force them to with taxes. Didn't you read my other post? The largest tax increase in US peacetime history was during the great depressrion. The revenue act of 1932 under Hoover raised the top rates from 25% to 63%. The result was a double dip recession and FDR's inaguration.

then that SOCIALIST FDR came up with the CCC and other programs that saved America, and they loved him as proven by the four terms he was elected for president.

Contrary to popular belief, these programs did not get us out of the Great Depression. Similar to 0bama's ARRA, throwing money at things did not help. There was still high unemployment til WWII. With the war, Allied demand for our manufactured goods skyrocketed. With that demand came more jobs and an end to the depression. Check out the unemployment charts of the 30s and 40s if you don't believe me.

Also, most of these projects (CCC, TVA, etc.) were already underway or planned by the Hoover Administration. The FDR administration implemented or expanded upon Hoover's ideas.

Conservatives need history lessons BIG time!

LOL. Indeed.

LogicReguired

Not really, you care about social security or medicare? You have to "buy" in to those.

Also Government already tells you what you can't buy.

This is going to make my year! We needed healthcare and this issue is now law. No more whining and quibbling, it's DONE!

Thank you Obama, Congress and The Supreme Court.

Dear conservatives,

I'm sorry, but there can only have been one winner in this fight. It could have just as easily gone your way and against us. As in all political and legal fights, there has to be a winner and a looser.

In 2000 and 2004, you won and we lost. In 2008, you lost and we won. 2010, you won a bit and we lost a bit. Today you lost and we won.

Now it's on to November. Let's see what happens and by all means, let's be professional about it. :-)

Well thanks for your honest answer Krestov. To answer your question, NO I don't care about Social Security or Medicare - both will be broke and bankrupt by the time I will probably need them, and both are full of fraud. Not really the same thing, but no point in debating it.

I was under the impression FREEDOM was importantto both parties, my mistake, many would rather be taken care of by the government even if it means giving up their liberties. Oh well, all democracies die eventually.

LogicRequired

"With this desicion the congress can pass a mandate to "tax" you if you don't buy a green car"

Apparently you have not looked at the sticker prices on new cars. Some of the hiperformance cars there is a gas guzzlers tax. So what you say is already happening.

Mandate your behavior? The FedGov and States have been doing that for years. Alcohol and tobacco taxes are examples. Cigarettes have gone from 20 ~ 30 centsper pack to $6.50 ~ $8.00 a pack from 1965 to present.

Do some of these posters not understand that fascism is a right-wing political ideology? Just because the Nazi's had the word "socialist" in their name didn't make then a left wing. In fact there were very active socialist and communist parties in Spain, Germany, and Italy. These parties were ruthlessly crushed. The key "focus" of all Nazi political theory was nationalism, the right wing scourge. The economic theory of the fascists was extremely easy to understand --- they were incredibly corrupt and resulted in huge transfers of money from the country itself to its ruling political parties.

The closest to Nazis would be the Baathist Parties of Sadaam Hussein and the Assads.

@Phyrric,

I wish people would give up on all the made up Nazi bs. "

Gun control, the Law on Firearms and Ammunition, was introduced to Germany in 1928 under the Weimar regime (there was no Right to Arms in the Constitution of 1919) in large part to disarm the nascent private armies, e.g. the Nazi SA (aka "the brownshirts"). The Weimar government was attempting to bring some stability to German society and politics (a classic "law and order" position). Violent extremist movements (of both the Left and Right) were actively attacking the young, and very fragile, democratic state. A government that cannot maintain some degree of public order cannot sustain its legitimacy. Nor was the German citizenry well grounded in Constitutional, republican government (as was evidenced in their choices at the ballot box). Gun control was not initiated at the behest or on behalf of the Nazis - it was in fact designed to keep them, or others of the same ilk, from executing a revolution against the lawful government. In the strictest sense, the law succeeded - the Nazis did not stage an armed coup."

And the general consensus is that FDR's social programs were very instrumental in moving from the Depression to a shallow rural recession. FDR lacked two key things to measure how well he was doing : modern economic theory (Keynes was just emerging) and the computers to crunch the numbers. Most economists say that the dault with Hoover was economic austerity that plunged a three-sector recession into a general and severe depression. And FDR's problem was that he spent far too little and was too quick to abandon programs if they did not appear to be producing the desired results. They point to the WWII boom and the Eisenhower Recession as validation of that model.

Oh and Chuck -

To further debunk your FDR myth:

then that SOCIALIST FDR came up with the CCC and other programs that saved America, and they loved him as proven by the four terms he was elected for president.

The following is from a TIME Magazine article:

New Dealer Rexford Tugwell later remarked that although no one would say so at the time, "practically the whole New Deal was extrapolated from programs that Hoover started."

Rexford Tugwell was an economist who became part of FDR's first "Brain Trust" a group of Columbia academics who helped develop policy recommendations leading up to Roosevelt's 1932 election as President. Tugwell subsequently served in FDR's administration for four years and was one of the chief intellectual contributors to his New Deal.

Roosevelt attacked Hoover for "reckless and extravagant" spending, of thinking "that we ought to center control of everything in Washington as rapidly as possible." Roosevelt's running mate, John Nance Garner, accused the Republican of "leading the country down the path of socialism".

So there you have it.

Conservatives need history lessons BIG time!

Ah those pesky facts........

On the upside; we can now tax the hell out of abortion.

Good point Willing!

I also have a business, small but around 70 people. I will need to get some legal advice but heard you are exempt if you have under 50 employees (small Business). If that is true I will either dump all my employees into the Government plan and pay the fine, or lay off enough people to be under 50, whichever cost me the least! Life's a B!TCH

Yes, my controller/accountant recommended to us to drop our employer based insurance and just pay the fine. For us it makes better business sense.

And perhaps those employees will know who to thank for the loss of their insurance......the hard Left, and the Democrats.

Willing, you don't have any employees to dump off anything. Someone who is not bright enough to actually have the slightest clue what they are miserably attempting to comment on is not bright enough to manage them self let alone 150 employees. The court did NOT re-write the law. It's the same as it was for the past 2 years. Guess that's not long enough for you to get a clue huh? Also, you already get stiffed with a tax if you buy a gas guzzler and you get a tax break if you buy a hybrid. You really are clueless. Makes me wonder how some of you have managed to this point.

ChrisBurgh - "All the time! What do you think government contracts are?"

Wow, are you that dense?

Government contracts are collected tax money being spent by the government to companies for products/services. This is the only "tax" ever forced to be paid BY taxpayers TO private companies.... or be fined by the govt(the other tax collector) for not providing them the money.

One thing is certain, the IRS is going to have a field day... how many more companies/industries can we begin using to fleece the population? Time will tell, but the slippery slope has begun.

Using Obama's logic, everybody should now buy a GM car so the taxpayers can get a better return their bailout money.

Chris -

Just because the Nazi's had the word "socialist" in their name didn't make then a left wing.

Nazi economic policies were indeed left wing/collectivist. What you are referring to are the social policies of the Nazis. Their xenophobia, nationalism, idolizing of leaders, racism, religious fervor, militarism, etc. are all right wing ideals. However, their economic policies of Nationalized unions, state-directed industrial output, huge federal defecit spending, free market interventionalism, price caps, quotas, etc. are all left wing collectivist.

From the Nazi's "25 Points":

"that all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished"; "the nationalization of all trusts"; "profit-sharing in large industries"; and "an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land." "We demand … the immediate communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople."

Doesn't sound like right wing free market economic theory to me. Sounds pretty controlling.

And yes Keynesian theory was alive and well during this time. In fact, he liked what the Nazis were doing with their economy:

Nevertheless the theory of [Keynesian Economics] as a whole, which is what the following book purports to provide, is more easily adapted to the conditions of a totalitarian state, than is the theory of the production and distribution of a given output under conditions of free competition and a large measure of laissez-faire.

- John Maynard Keynes from his book The General Theory 9/7/36

Not that Keynes was a Nazi by any means, he is just saying that his economic principles work better with strict government control.

Most economists say that the dault with Hoover was economic austerity that plunged a three-sector recession into a general and severe depression.

Hoover was not practicing austerity by any means. This assumption is just patently false. From my post above:

New Dealer Rexford Tugwell later remarked that although no one would say so at the time, "practically the whole New Deal was extrapolated from programs that Hoover started."

Rexford Tugwell was an economist who became part of FDR's first "Brain Trust" a group of Columbia academics who helped develop policy recommendations leading up to Roosevelt's 1932 election as President. Tugwell subsequently served in FDR's administration for four years and was one of the chief intellectual contributors to his New Deal.

Roosevelt attacked Hoover for "reckless and extravagant" spending, of thinking "that we ought to center control of everything in Washington as rapidly as possible." Roosevelt's running mate, John Nance Garner, accused the Republican of "leading the country down the path of socialism".

That is all from TIME magazine.

Ummmm.... are you asserting that Nazi Germany didn't have a socialist economy? All workers were organised into one state owned union. All corporations were controlled by the state and had output quotas. Nazi Germany imposed strict gun control on its citizens. Sounds like government controlling/socialist policies to me.

No they did NOT have a socialist economy they had a totalitarian government . The corporations were Hitler's allies and were happy to compete for business –purely competitive. They in fact made the same products and the Hitler would choose which he liked best.

He tried to force them to with taxes. Didn't you read my other post? The largest tax increase in US peacetime history was during the great depressrion. The revenue act of 1932 under Hoover raised the top rates from 25% to 63%. The result was a double dip recession and FDR's inaguration.

Funny how you left out nearly his entire presidency up til 1932 at the height of his failures.

He supported private people helping each other he did a few projects and that was it. He raised tariffs and cost businesses money that they then did not have to tax , on top of that he taxed anyone who used checks –which includes non wealthy individuals., one of the biggest reasons for the double dip.

Contrary to popular belief, these programs did not get us out of the Great Depression. Similar to 0bama's ARRA, throwing money at things did not help. There was still high unemployment til WWII. With the war, Allied demand for our manufactured goods skyrocketed. With that demand came more jobs and an end to the depression. Check out the unemployment charts of the 30s and 40s if you don't believe me.

Also, most of these projects (CCC, TVA, etc.) were already underway or planned by the Hoover Administration. The FDR administration implemented or expanded upon Hoover's ideas.

Contrary to your post.

1) Hitler never nationalized any companies. He in fact preferred to have the compete against one another for government contracts. Krupp, Porche, Siemann's etc. they were all very happy with the capitalistic system that made them very very wealthy.

2) FDR lowered the UI rate BEFORE WWII from 25% to 14% due to HIS programs. even before lend lease.

3) Cite your sources that Hoover came up with the new Deal TVA definitely not--However, legislation to this effect was vetoed in 1928 and in 1931 by Presidents Calvin Coolidge and Herbert Hoover. The 1933 TVA Act, redrafted by President Roosevelt.

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0848169.html

4) they were indeed FDRs programs even though you like to change history

5) even if they were hoovers plans you just admitted that :

6) Socialism works and Hoover agreed the CCC and TVA WORKED far better than a "free market" !

7) WWII was GOVERNMENT SPENDING!

Again...

Conservatives need history lessons BIG time!

Chuck -

No they did NOT have a socialist economy they had a totalitarian government . The corporations were Hitler's allies and were happy to compete for business –purely competitive. They in fact made the same products and the Hitler would choose which he liked best.

What you just described is a perfect example of government central planning, a classic hallmark of socialism. Government picking and choosing winners and losers is a form of socialism (similar to military contracts today).

He supported private people helping each other he did a few projects and that was it. He raised tariffs and cost businesses money that they then did not have to tax , on top of that he taxed anyone who used checks –which includes non wealthy individuals., one of the biggest reasons for the double dip.

This is all factual. This along with the income tax hike contibuted to the double dip. You see, tax cuts and defecit spending are just two different ways to do the same thing: and that is to put more money into the economy. There are drawbacks of both. With tax cuts, alot of money stays with the wealthy industrialists and only a portion trickles down to the rest of us. With deficit spending, alot of money sticks to beaurocrats' fingers an many different levels, only a bit trickles down to workers. That's why you see outrageous stats like "the government spent $350,000 per job" or whatever.

Hitler never nationalized any companies

What I meant is that the Nazi's controlled who produced what or were given special favors. Some would call it "crony capitalism". Government control of output is a leftist ideal.

Cite your sources that Hoover came up with the new Deal TVA definitely not--However, legislation to this effect was vetoed in 1928 and in 1931 by Presidents Calvin Coolidge and Herbert Hoover. The 1933 TVA Act, redrafted by President Roosevelt.

It's all in a previous post of mine in this thread addressed to Chris. But here you go anyways:

Hoover was not practicing austerity by any means. This assumption is just patently false. From my post above:

New Dealer Rexford Tugwell later remarked that although no one would say so at the time, "practically the whole New Deal was extrapolated from programs that Hoover started."

Rexford Tugwell was an economist who became part of FDR's first "Brain Trust" a group of Columbia academics who helped develop policy recommendations leading up to Roosevelt's 1932 election as President. Tugwell subsequently served in FDR's administration for four years and was one of the chief intellectual contributors to his New Deal.

Roosevelt attacked Hoover for "reckless and extravagant" spending, of thinking "that we ought to center control of everything in Washington as rapidly as possible." Roosevelt's running mate, John Nance Garner, accused the Republican of "leading the country down the path of socialism".

That is all from TIME magazine. Hoover was a big believer in Public-Private partnerships. And he governed as such.

even if they were hoovers plans you just admitted that :

6) Socialism works and Hoover agreed the CCC and TVA WORKED far better than a "free market" !

Socialism does work for a period of time. As Margaret Thatcher said, its great until the money runs out. And when it does, well, you get Europe. The larger the amount of government spending there is, the more dependent it is on tax revenue. And this is fine as long as there are sufficient funds to pay for everything. When a recession hits and there isn't as much revenue coming in, well then you have a problem. We see this in Europe. We see this in Stockton, CA. It has contributed to our federal defecit (less tax revenue due to the recession) And we will see more of it.

WWII was GOVERNMENT SPENDING!

Yes and no. Our govt did indeed spend more, but we also had alot more foreign demand for our goods.

Also, you already get stiffed with a tax if you buy a gas guzzler and you get a tax break if you buy a hybrid. You really are clueless. Makes me wonder how some of you have managed to this point.

What many of you geniuses are missing is that all the taxes you are talking about are when you CHOOSE to buy something, or have a job in which taxes are taking out. This is the first law ever passed that says you will need to buy or product (FROM A BIG PRIVATE CORPORATION) or be taxed for no other reason then being alive.

Krestov

I challenge those who are rapidly against the healthcare reform to explain why your stance is correct to a parent who's child was born with a congenital heart defect

I think you're buying into the far left claims of anyone against THIS bill as being totally against reform at all. Repeal and Replace would cover many other issues that this bill does not. Remember, unless your family is on welfare, nothing in this bill limits what the insurance company can charge you for a policy covering congential heart defects. You'll have the right to buy it, but can you afford it if they decide it costs $500-1,000 a month? Over 20 million will still be without health insurance the way this bill is written. I honestly hope your child isn't one of them. My fiancee has MD (mild, but it's enough to be a preexisting condition). I'm not sure we'll be able to afford it though and we'll just end up having to fork over another tax at the end of the year to cover the welfare crowd.

Allen: How wrong you are....below is a brief summary of the Affordable Care Act:

For those of you who actually don't understand what the Affordable Care Act means....here's a synopsis of some of the things that it will provide:

1. Lets millions of young adults stay on parent's insurance under age 26.

2. Ends insurance company power to cap the amount of care a person can receive in their lifetime.

3. Stops insurance companies from canceling coverage when someone gets sick.

4. Lowers the cost of care for those on Medicare and helps seniors save money on their medication

5. Requires insurance companies to cover preventive services like mammograms free of charge.

6. Strengthens and protects Medicare by increasing penalties for fraud.

7. Stops insurance companies from denying coverage to children with pre-existing conditions.

8. Ends insurance company power to jack up rates without justification.

9. Provides Americans with rebates from insurers who spend too much on CEO bonuses and ads.

10. Gives tax credits to small business owners so they can afford to offer quality health care for their employees.

11. Builds and improves hundreds of community health centers

12. Gives hard-working Americans tax credits so they can affor insurance beginning in 2014.

13. Ends discrimination against adults with pre-existing conditions beginning in 2014.

AND

14. Prevents insurance companies from charging women more than men and overcharging those who need care the most beginning in 2014.

Our company has 85 employees, and has already developed its contingency plan. It will be substantially less expensive to drop the company health plan altogether, and pay the fines. I'm not worried about attacting employees, because my competitors are doing the same. In fact, most of the business owners I know think this is not necessarily a bad thing. Employers should never have been in the business of providing health plans to their employees in the first place...

All the time! They are just cloaked under a different name called "prices." Taxes or prices are actually both the same--revenue generators. We just call government revenues taxes, and business revenues prices. And the Republican Party has made taxes out to be a dirty work. Switch the words around and they still remain necessary for both government and businesses to do and exercise.

Yes Rob, it is cheaper for a couple of years. Then the fine Triples. You and other companies dropping health insurance will give the Democrats exactly what they want. Your $3000 per employee and a public outcry for a single payer plan. Then the gracious government will make a plan. When the fines triple and the public health insureres drop out because they are losing money, you will be left with only Single payer.

After single payer takes over, the cost overruns will either finish bankrupting the economic system or the government will cut the most expensive treatments, and start deciding who gets treatment and who doesn't.

Pyrrhic Victory
first you obviously are clueless on what a socialism is .. none the less. I believe you are a liar. give the TIME magazine link

not Towenhall TIME. I plugged in the "reckless" quoite ALL that appears are bullsht right wing sites using the same sentence over and over because it is from one source. The typical right wing tactic. Make assertions you cant back up.and expect the liberal to do the homework because you know it can never be backed up and the truth teller gets stuck proving you lied, .thats Rove style.. Nope not this time hun. YOU prove your statement to be true. PROVIDE THE TIME MAGAZINE LINK or admit you lied.

cato institute also makes claims without back up. show me this quote in the national archives was made by Roosevelt. oh and , any excuses that you dont want to do my homework for me will be proof you are getting this @!$%# from cato institute and other right wing bullsht sites.
They claim that when fdr came i8n office that Hoover just left papers with the new Deal in them --BULLSHT! they claim this quote was given by one of FDR advisers yet refuse to name the specific advisor. you people are SO full of @!$%#!

Hey Tyler... Why did you reinstate Shellie657180 when she is obviously making a personal attack on Willing Sniper, and yet you suspend KMC-28440? Why are you picking and chossing which ones you want to suspend? Or does your "Above all else, respect others. Address issues and arguments and refrain from making personal attacks", only go for the ones you don't agree with? Just a question.

"1. Lets millions of young adults stay on parent's insurance under age 26."

...and live in their basement and post on newsvine

"2. Ends insurance company power to cap the amount of care a person can receive in their lifetime.:

...at least up to the point where their policy gets canceled

"3. Stops insurance companies from canceling coverage when someone gets sick."

...doesn't help when they shut down their company (you can't get blood from a turnip)

"4. Lowers the cost of care for those on Medicare and helps seniors save money on their medication"

...how? , nevermind , talking points are over rated

"5. Requires insurance companies to cover preventive services like mammograms free of charge."

...there is little data that mammograms decrease the mortality rate from breast cancer (and yes , my mother died from breast cancer)

"6. Strengthens and protects Medicare by increasing penalties for fraud."

...is that a case that a liberal Attorney General IS inclined to persue? (it is so hard to tell with the likes of our current AG)

"7. Stops insurance companies from denying coverage to children with pre-existing conditions."

...again , a moot point if they go out of business , and most will before long

"8. Ends insurance company power to jack up rates without justification."

...and who gets to decide what is "justified"? , you?

"9. Provides Americans with rebates from insurers who spend too much on CEO bonuses and ads."

... in other words your gubment will be in charge of insurance companies?

"10. Gives tax credits to small business owners so they can afford to offer quality health care for their employees.'

...those businesses will not be "offering" insurance , they will be smart enough to let you enroll in the state "pool" and let you deal with it

"11. Builds and improves hundreds of community health centers"

...I thought that was what Planned Parenthood was for

"12. Gives hard-working Americans tax credits so they can affor insurance beginning in 2014."

...aren't "tax credits" bad? , oh , they are good if liberals dream them up , my bad

"13. Ends discrimination against adults with pre-existing conditions beginning in 2014."

...you and yours are going to force them to take on customers that don't want? , and you are going to tell them what rates they can charge for the extra liability? , won't help a thing if they shut their doors

"14. Prevents insurance companies from charging women more than men and overcharging those who need care the most beginning in 2014"

...gotta recoup on that birth control expense somehow , or does that stuff grow on trees?

nothing you posted is going to make a bit of difference because as we all know (but lefties won't admit) this is just the first step to forcing insurance companies out of business and leaving no alternative but to get on the taxpayer funded "single payer" European socialist health care train hurtling into the side of a mountain.

and since when did insurance companies become "health providers"? , your "health" is between you and your doctor , how much they are willing to pay of your "health care" is a deal you make with an insurance company , it's so simple even a libby should be able to grasp it , but then again , maybe not

Willing.Sniper:

RE: your post #3.44

First, you DO NOT HAVE 150 employees! Not that many needed for a Hot Dog Cart! Third if your Controller (should be Comptroller), claims you can drop your, fictional 150 employees from a health plan, he is telling you to commit a CRIME. The ACA DEMANDS employers who have 50 or more employees to offer health care insurance, IT IS NOT OPTIONAL, PERIOD! Your still a piece of DOG SH*T, and a miserable person! Your Karma will catch you, the sooner the better!

"It's socialism with everyone having to have health insurance". [sarcasm]

"Health care should only be for the rich". [sarcasm]

Guess what, this is a good day for Americans.

Sure we can. Look at all the other nations that have socialized medicine. They get better results at lower costs than we have had.

Those countries also control the COST by either running hospitals themselves or detailed price fixing. WIth all the waiver obama has already granted to get support, cost control is already non-existent.

Eric,

This would be a great day for Americans if we had AFFORDABLE insurance. This does nothing in creating affordable insurance and the biggest reason why most people don't have insurance is that they can't afford it ANYMORE.

"This would be a great day for Americans if we had AFFORDABLE insurance. This does nothing in creating affordable insurance and the biggest reason why most people don't have insurance is that they can't afford it ANYMORE." Your wrong, and this is not true--because it WILL provide affordable Health Care. What is does is give incentives to the insurance companies to provide affordable Heath Care to all Americans. This competition among the insurance companies will drive the cost of premiums down, not up. More people will be able to afford it . And you can bet that the insurances companies will be behind Obama on this one because they get to keep those incentives.

Steve West, is that regardless of the fact that Americans taxes are at an all time low??

It's widely known that while this won't reduce costs a lot, its better than the 20% increases a year we would have without it.

If Republicans had a better plan they should have submitted it.

What part do you not agree with? Making it illegal for companies to throw you off for getting sick? Allowing the insurance company to keep only 20% of the premiums as profit? Assisting people without insurance to buy insurance? The penalty for no insurance is only $75 per year, so it can't be that.

@ Eric ......"This is a good day for Americans" ?

Yes for Socialist/Progressive, lazy, entitled, ......"Americans"

Steve, My thoughts exactly.... For the 30,000,000 people that do not have insurance, I hate that for them, but I cannot afford to pay the outrageous premiums for my own family so that they are able to get free Doctor visits, prescriptions and counseling. Way too often I am standing in a waiting room full of people that are living off of my hard work, waiting for my appointment, listening to them talk on their IPhones or play on their tablets complaining about not having money. I get charged overrated fees so the office can offset what they lose on them. We are even treated disrespectfully by techs and nurses I suppose because we are better supposedly better suited to pay than the ones on welfare and the like. Whatever.... Our fat government just wants to get fatter. We all know what eventually happens to the fat cow. All too soon we will begin to see our Nation crumble to the extent it cannot be covered up by an election year. Unfortunately it will be too late at that point. If the 30,000,000 folks that do not have insurance were to get out, work and then fight for better affordable insurance effectively for the greater cause, imagine what we could accomplish. But then why should they want to give up sitting around complaining doing nothing when there is a congress and leader that will feed, house and insure them for free, makes perfect sense to me. Thinking about joining them in a couple of years. Heck you can’t get blood out of a turnip. You can’t make people pay for something if they do not have the money or feel obligated. Penalties, fines, taxes, these will fall on the working class of society even heavier. With all of the people that owe taxes (personal, land or otherwise), back child support owed, broken down economic systems within major cities, do you really think another burden is really going to work?

So insurance for all Americans is socialism?

So I guess all Americans are "lazy, entitled, ....etc.".

And, the Republicans alternative was what?

For all of you complaining that this will cause your premiums to rise, my BCBS rep tells me that premiums will drop (and ours did last year for the first time in years). This legislation means that those people who didn't have insurance will now be covered and medical facilities will not have massive write offs. Medical costs will go down - as will our premiums.

And reversing this legislation was not possible. All the costs for the insurance companies getting switched over is incurred and we move on from here.

btw - I find it frightening how many of you can quote communists....

Tracy Jo Yoakum Bush

You may have forgotten that before this reform if any of us (with health insurance) had a child with, for example, with a heart defect our health insurance would not cover their health bill.

With this new health care reform that child would get treatment.

This would be a great day for Americans if we had AFFORDABLE insurance.

and which party blocked either single payer or a public option that would force insurers to cut costs for basic coverage? That would be the Republicans.

The same group who is now touting replacing "Obamacare" with everything thats in Obamacare!

Romney stated in his speech minutes ago that what America really needs is a program that allows folks up to 26 to stay on parents plan---check

that doesnt cut folks out with preexisting conditions ..check

that allows one to keep their doctor or choose one they like...check

that doesnt fund abortion ---check

Republicans are con men.

"The mandate, requiring every American to purchase health insurance, appeared in a 1989 published proposal by Stuart M. Butler of the conservative Heritage Foundation called "Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans," which included a provision to "mandate all households to obtain adequate insurance."

I've been a Registered Nurse for 30+ and "Obama Care" is the best thing to happen in the healthcare field since managed care in the '80's. Hospitals "eat" millions every year because their patients have "entitlement" issues and feel someone else can pay for the care they received. Also Medicaid/Medical recipients use hospital ER's as their private MD costing billions of dollars to the responsible people who actually work..taxpayers!!!

Obama Care may just save our healthcare system as it has been circleing the drain for years. We need a system where the MD decides what care a patient gets, not the patient demanding what they want. Healthcare needs to be more cost effective...I'm sorry but giving a healthy heart to a 70+ year old man (a former VP) when his cardiac problems can be medically managed is disgusting when there are 20-50 year olds needing that same heart but have a longer life span in whch to be productive. Or doing a total hip replacement on a 90 year old.

I don't want to hear any BS about "Death panels". Because here's a big surprise to all of you nut jobs out there....hospitals have ethics committees who met to discuss whether or not there is any benefit to continue providing care to your (or mine) elderly family member. If continued care is worthless the family is told the patient will be kept pain free but it's time to let them pass on. I have never had a family disagree and most are very thankful they have been told the truth.

@ RealAlaskanWoman - Where in the world do you come up with the calculation that the tax (or "penalty" as you have been made to believe would be in place) would be just $75.00??? Did you bother to read the 2,409 pages of the legislation???

In 2016, for example, the tax for those without insurance will be 2.5 percent of an individual’s household income, but no less than $695 and no more than the average yearly premium for insurance that covers 60 percent of the cost of 10 specified services (e.g., prescription drugs and hospitalization).

How does that equate to just $75.00 of a tax??? Is this after drinking that Obama Kool-Aid???

THE MINIMUM TAX IS $695.00!!!

Eric-913730

First off I would like to say that I'm amazed at the ruling by the Supreme Court as I didn't see this coming!!!

Eric, I agree with you.... Calling this "Socialism" just tells me that the vast majority of folks out there never served in the military where one could say it is the epitome of Socialism and even Communism, first you lose your identity and become a member of a unit, you have your housing, food, clothing and medical paid for, you are told in what capacity you will serve and where you will be transferred to and you have signed a contract for how long you will serve and by signing that you then belong lock, stock and barrel to the Government!

next...Don't members of Congress receive health care and isn't THAT health care paid for by the people? after serving ONLY one term they will receive heath care for as long as they live and all paid for by the taxpayers. These "Representatives" receive a hell of a lot more time off then the highest paid CEO's, they vote their own pay increases, they are able to write off their perks and yet they look at the average American who is paying their bills and saying "You're not worthy of what you are giving us" so we'll brand what you want as "Socialism"!!!!!! and those who have been assimilated into their collective buy into it!!!

Maybe these pampered primadonnas would be singing a different tune if they had to pay the same costs for their insurance as we do, if they received pay increases that didn't even match the cost-of-living increase...if they were able to even get a pay increase as our pay have been relitively FLAT for the last 12 years, or if their pay was based on performance how many wouldn't even be receiving paychecks for their doing nothing for the last 2 years!!!,

what if they weren't able to get vacations or had only one week for the first term of office and one additional week from their 3rd term through their 5th term....what if they actually had to work for 350 days a year instead of only of being in session for only 151 days a year! and taking weeks off during their "Sessions" what do they do with the other 214 days per year as I haven't heard or seen anything out of Kyl or McCain or the other representatives since- forever!!!... maybe then they would do a little more fighting for the American People if they had to live their lives like we live ours - working to support THEM!!!

Thanks to the court for their bad decision,

In just a few hours Mitt Romney has had over a $million dollars donated to his campaign this morning!

Willing.Sniper (not hard to tell where your love lies)

you should be happy with the court’s decision.... you and yours will be able to run countless ads, swiftboat and otherwise showing how the Republican strategy for Austerity is the correct one even though it plunged Europe into another Recession and almost bankrupt them in the process, how cuts to government during a recession has been practiced by every Republican who found themselves in a mess like this, that is with the exception of Reagan and the Bushes who increased government spending and employment but who wants to trouble themselves with facts when you have the FOX…

You will be able to support your Billionaire benefactors who obviously are parting with such great wealth because they love this country and are looking for NOTHING in return to help the achieve paying even lower taxes for those jobs they aren’t creating maybe you can pass a law that will prohibit the 1% from paying any taxes at all, obviously the money can come from someplace else like the poor or Social Security...I’m sure that you wrote them and opted out of the evil socialized program, right!

You will be able to claim how the economy had and unemployment has improved by Republican intervention even though all bills designed were filibustered by Republicans for the last two years, you will be able to flood the airwaves saying that the Mittster” is a job creator even if it occurred in China and India, because what he did for those countries he can do here…we just need to drop our pay to 300.00 a month to be able to compete!

So go ahead and back the Republican party, the millionaires and billionaires, corporations, influence peddling and lobbyists but don’t come crying to those of us are really of neither party who are going to vote for the individual who will better serve the people of this nation when you have to sell your guns to eat or feed your family because you voted for the guy of the party who has done nothing but make the rich richer and the rest of us poorer!

And, the Republicans alternative was what?

The Republican alternative was a bi-partisan, non closed door writing of the bill and to have time to read it before voting on it. Would you sign a contract that involved 1/6 of your gross pay annually without reading it? The fact that you're even asking that when there are literally dozens of them, including official GOP web sites with their ideas and you somehow don't even know they exist is frightening. I had no idea people really existed that were that sheltered from what goes on in our gov't. I can only hope you don't vote. If you did, you probably vote straight line and wouldn't even care (or know) if one with your favorite letter was a convicted felon or completely incapable of a leadership role.

Again, here's synopsis of the Affordable Care Act.....

For those of you who actually don't understand what the Affordable Care Act means....here's a synopsis of some of the things that it will provide:

1. Lets millions of young adults stay on parent's insurance under age 26.

2. Ends insurance company power to cap the amount of care a person can receive in their lifetime.

3. Stops insurance companies from canceling coverage when someone gets sick.

4. Lowers the cost of care for those on Medicare and helps seniors save money on their medication

5. Requires insurance companies to cover preventive services like mammograms free of charge.

6. Strengthens and protects Medicare by increasing penalties for fraud.

7. Stops insurance companies from denying coverage to children with pre-existing conditions.

8. Ends insurance company power to jack up rates without justification.

9. Provides Americans with rebates from insurers who spend too much on CEO bonuses and ads.

10. Gives tax credits to small business owners so they can afford to offer quality health care for their employees.

11. Builds and improves hundreds of community health centers

12. Gives hard-working Americans tax credits so they can afford insurance beginning in 2014.

13. Ends discrimination against adults with pre-existing conditions beginning in 2014.

AND

14. Prevents insurance companies from charging women more than men and overcharging those who need care the most beginning in 2014.

If that's where you sank your cash, then you benefit from the free market.

We don't have a free market. A free market has no regulations.

We have a capitalist or regulated market. And it just got more regulated.

A truly free market is also devoid of subsidies, price supports, tax breaks and credits. The GOP has aborted any semblance of a free market in this country with all their entitlements to the rich and sleazy individuals and corporations who just can't be taxed.

That has to be the most selfish mess you could have said at least if your family that you diss can get coverage without your help cause you sound like you would let yo own mama die for a dime

The mandate, requiring every American to purchase health insurance, appeared in a 1989 published proposal by Stuart M. Butler of the conservative Heritage Foundation called "Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans," which included a provision to "mandate all households to obtain adequate insurance."

We don't have a free market. A free market has no regulations.

We've tried that too. it was a horrible failure . it was called laissez faire

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire

Time for the 'true' republican party to call out all these GOP TPer naysayers and detractors on prior GOP support of what the TPers now say are no good for us.

This confusing, flip-flopping, hypocrisy of the party of GNOP is mind-boggling to everyone but them.

Uhhh Pharmas and Insurance company stocks are down.... Don't quit your day job...

So health care is just for the rich eh?

Great for you! you do realize not everyone is in your position, right? As someone with a physical disability I acquired when I was 4 because of a car accident, I can tell you that the pre-existing conditions and rising premiums was becoming impossible to overcome. Couple that with the fact that employers were less likely to hire for a myriad of reasons, including health insurance, and you've a got a recipe for disaster. I'm glad you could avoid it though!

Is the gold platter you are talking about anything similar to your Medicare coverage??

The old timers are the worst of a bad lot, worse even than the older boomers--greedy and selfish. You have health insurance but heaven forbid if anyone else has it.

Did you actually read the first sentence of your post before you hit "enter?"

This is exactly the problem - the wealthly who believe that only they deserve to have insurance. Everyone else who can't afford it can just go to the emergency room - right? Well who do you think pays for that? This is a great ruling and will help many Americans in our society. Way to go President Obama!

Bully for you Richard. How nice that you do not have any pre-existing condition that results in the Record profit making insurance companies denying you insurance. As someone who pays over $1000 dollars a month for me alone, even though I have not been to the doctor in 2 years, I am thrilled to see this upheld. Funny, it seems that those that have insurance are so quick to screw over their fellow Americans who cant get it, until they are in the same boat...

What kind of health insurance, Richard? Is it Medicare, the insurance program that EVERY citizen should have regardless of age?

kristin, The old timers learned to be self-sufficient and saved money for when they needed it. NO ONE handed them anything. I have health insurance because I worked hard, moved up and payed for my own education to ensure I could compete for jobs that offered that to me. I realize that hard work is a strange concept for those who expect to be handed everything they feel they are entitled to simply because they exist.

So, Richard, I'm assuming in your financially comfortable retirement, you've opted out of collecting Social Security and Medicare? It would go against your beliefs, right? If so, I applaud you. If not, I call hypocrite.

@kristen and dhbs those old timers and medicare you speak of is a thank you for years of hard work people put into the system to keep our congressmen and women in the lifestyles they are use too. AND one day, if you are lucky enough to get old you will get medicare too. That is unless you never work a day in your life and expect someone to take care of you.

Hey Griff, things were totally different then. They lived in a time where you could afford an education without taking out a ton of loans--or, if you didn't go to college, you could still get a decent job without a degree. Their parents helped them out. You could raise a family on one income. If you needed a prescription your doctor either gave it to you for a minimal charge or you paid very little money at the pharmacy.

Also, please learn something about the history of health insurance in this country. Not all that long ago, insurance was for people who couldn't afford to pay cash to go to the hospital. That's right, if you had insurance, it meant you were poor. The old timers still call it "hospitalization"--because that's all it covered. You didn't need anything else.

As for your stupid comment, "I realize that hard work is a strange concept for those who expect to be handed everything they feel they are entitled to simply because they exist"...karma's a bitch. You're under the delusion that because you were LUCKY, so is everyone else. Most people do work hard. I'm sorry you're stuck in your bitter little bubble where no one works as hard as you.

I really hope you and your family stay healthy, because if you don't, I'm going to be the first in line to say, "Oops, you have cancer, it's your own fault, no more insurance for you!" And then let you die.

Oh wait, we can't do that anymore!

The "health bill" doesn't give everyone the right to have health care insurance. It MANDATES that everyone, including those who don't want it, BUY health care insurance. Those who refuse to buy it, will be taxed exorbitant sums and given rationed health care anyway. Those who can't afford it but don't meet the poverty level stipulations will probably be forced into giving up their homes to the government to pay for their health care much in the same manner as isalready happening today. When a person who is very ill becomes dependent on long-term care, they can go on governmental care if all of their property is given to the government to dispose of first. Those of us who work and pay taxes pick up the rest of the medical bills for ALL those situations. We also already pay for the indigent and those on welfare by paying higher medical costs, copays, and premiums.

Which brings up a huge question: Who is really going to benefit from this so called health bill? It appears to be the power of the government in testing how much of our inalienable rights they can steal away from us. Sure, they have the right to tax us on services they provide but to force us into buying something we don't want or need is beyond the scope of the intent of the constitution. Our freedoms are eroding... it may not be too far off but we might see a revocation of the term limits placed on the office of president and if this happens, God help us all.

RETIRED PEOPLE ARE NOT FREELOADERS! Those of us who have worked all our lives have been paying into medicare as well as social security the entire time. For anyone to accuse people of expecting "handouts" when we reach retirement age should take a long look at your paystubs to see how much is being taken out each payday and double that amount because your employer is required to match that amount.

A typical "i got mine, so p'huck you" mentality. Remember, Karma is an attentive lady. She keeps nasty surpises in store for people like you. Like macular degeneration.

The mandate, requiring every American to purchase health insurance, appeared in a 1989 published proposal by Stuart M. Butler of the conservative Heritage Foundation called "Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans," which included a provision to "mandate all households to obtain adequate insurance."

IN THE FUTURE I GUESS THE NUCKING FUTTY GOP OUGHT TO KEEP THEIR BIG IDEAS TO THEMSELVES SO "COMMUNIST, SOCIALIST COMMUNITY ORGANIZERS" DON'T STEAL THEIR GREAT IDEAS & GET ALL OF THE CREDIT FOR THE LEGISLATION...!!

Dang! So you lost your job and income 'cause the company went under, eh? Oh, crap! And you mean to say that you're still among the 'gazillions of poor souls who have been beating the pavement in hopes of snagging one of those... um... elusive new jobs somebody keeps promising to create? Oh, no! Don't tell me that now your house has gone into forclosure, too, just because those big lending corporations were praised for... oops... I mean, got away with such monumental homicidal tendencies for years! Well, I'm glad you at least found a bridge to live under; even if you do have to share it with a few other... bums like yourself. But just think... at least now you have the freedom to start from scratch. And I'm sure - even though you haven't got a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of - you'll find some way to pay for the required personal insurance (and even though you have that darned pre-existing condition). But if you can't afford the penalty fee for not getting such coverage, there should be plenty of space in prison for you... and, hey, you'll even get 'three sqaures' if you end up there! What a relief! Everything should work out just fine for you... Ah! Thank God for the American Dream, eh?!

Griff, my father is an old timer who risked not paying into the system for years, and when he finally had to use it, declined to pay his own way. He allowed the hospital to write off the full amount, which the rest of us pick up the bill for. Perhaps you should not be so quick to paint with such a broad brush. Many of our seniors purposely risk not having coverage between retirement, and when their SOCIALIZED retirement kicks in. And for the record, you can thank YOUR parents for that.

Fids - You really need to learn how to use google.

Mr. Butler himself does not support what Obamacare has become. He provides a laundry list of the problems with it, with of course, the uncostitutionality of it being amon them:

"Don't blame Heritage for ObamaCare mandate"

"Moreover, I agree with my legal colleagues at Heritage that today's version of a mandate exceeds the constitutional powers granted to the federal government. Forcing those Americans not in the insurance market to purchase comprehensive insurance for themselves goes beyond even the most expansive precedents of the courts."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/story/2012-02-03/health-individual-mandate-reform-heritage/52951140/1

get a job Eric , it will change your outlook , and who knows maybe you will get "rich" and you can hate yourself

and dman1115...don't worry about what Richard is doing , just keep your butt working so you can pay for my free entitlements , I will be retiring soon and I intend to collect every dime of socialist free crap that you libby's can drum up , I have no kids so I have no skin in the game , by the way , it's getting late so get your behind to bed so you can get up and make that money boyyyeeeee

Actually, "the ball", is in the American people's court. Now that there is vindication and integrity by the court's decision it will certainly boost the people's confidence not only in the law, but the benefits for the majority of Americans the closer we get to 2014.

The law being upheld by the Supreme Court today vindicates POTUS legitimacy in 2 years of healthcare reform which is historic.

This isn't a tax; this is the government forcing you to buy a product from a private company. If the government would have developed a single payer system then taxed everyone to buy into that system it would be a tax. What next, they tell you you have to buy a house or a car; who cares that you can't afford it, they'll just call it a tax and fine you if you don't. This law makes no sense nor does the ruling.

They went out of their way to say its NOT a tax when they were sneaking this through reconciliation.

It's called a punt by the SCOTUS. 2014 will be a big friggin mess if this law stays on course.

Interesting point, Kevin. I do wonder if that was the intention...

I think that reading Scalia's opinion re (can't be forced to buy items held out for sale for profit) and Roberts' opinion (taxing is for congress), that single payer is constitutional. that would be my preference. those with money to buy more can do so.

The mandate, requiring every American to purchase health insurance, appeared in a 1989 published proposal by Stuart M. Butler of the conservative Heritage Foundation called "Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans," which included a provision to "mandate all households to obtain adequate insurance."

IN THE FUTURE I GUESS THE NUCKING FUTTY GOP OUGHT TO KEEP THEIR BIG IDEAS TO THEMSELVES SO "COMMUNIST, SOCIALIST COMMUNITY ORGANIZERS" DON'T STEAL THEIR GREAT IDEAS & GET ALL OF THE CREDIT FOR THE LEGISLATION...!!

Fids - You really need to learn how to use google.

Mr. Butler himself does not support what Obamacare has become. He provides a laundry list of the problems with it, with of course, the uncostitutionality of it being amon them:

"Don't blame Heritage for ObamaCare mandate"

"Moreover, I agree with my legal colleagues at Heritage that today's version of a mandate exceeds the constitutional powers granted to the federal government. Forcing those Americans not in the insurance market to purchase comprehensive insurance for themselves goes beyond even the most expansive precedents of the courts."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/story/2012-02-03/health-individual-mandate-reform-heritage/52951140/1

You are not required to have medical coverage on your auto insurance generally, only required to carry liability coverage. And, the medical coverage on auto insurance is generally to cover any victim's expenses, which your med coverage does not.

Noted. Typing faster than I was thinking things through. Not out of line with a lot of responses on here *grin*.

You need to look at this bill before you think its so great, there is so much pork in it that does not pertain to health care its redicilous. You will not have better healthcare, look at the UK, theirs is failing and people die before they get care. They have fewer doctors because they don't make enough money to live on and its terrible what the idiots in Washington have done to the American people. Companies will drop healthcare for their employees and the people will ahve to pay for it, entitlement has come to America and taxpayers will pay for it. You must be one that lives off the taxpayers or either you cannot read for yourself what this bill will really do to the American people.