I think the old liberal media should be charged for contempt, for slow playing Fast and Furious all this time! Now they and Obama have egg on their face and contempt from all Americans for this coverup!

Please! Bush had the whole issue with pushing people out of the Justice Dept. so he could put his own candidates in who would carry out his conservative agenda. Every president has to be pushed by Congress on something, but it is all a bunch of political grandstanding. The economy is in the toilet, people are suffering and all Congress can do is blow a lot of hot air about something because it's an election year. What a huge waste of our taxpayer money and this continuing process makes me sick.

Make the change in the Justice Dept. on how these things are handled and move on. There are far more guns being moved across the border thanks to the lack of regulations pushed so hard by the NRA kool-aid drinkers....anything that happened during "Fast and Furious" likely pales in comparison.

Of course Darrell Issa is factually correct in all his assertions about "Fast & Furious", but politics is politics, and so I don't understand why Holder doesn't just do an "Oliver North": sit up there stonefaced, and answer every one of Issa's questions with, "I answer to the President".

Rep. Cummings looked perplexed as he said, "Get your tongue out of my ear."

how quickly we forget...DUH...cheney and the leaking of CIA operative Valerie Plame and the fact that was TREASON and bush with the Executive privledge. The VP of the nation trying to blackmail a former Ambassador for saying the Iraqis had no weapons of mass distruction by releasing to the world the fact his wife was a CIA agent. Republicans again trying to say they are above the law but everyone else needs to bow down to them. And yet they wonder why they lost the White House.

DAVE-610645

why is everyone so quiet? Nixon left office with no American deaths so be assured Obama just finished cutting his own throat here........end game.

If Bush was never held in contempt for lying about WMD's, costing the taxpayer trillions and thousands of American lives - rest assured nothing is going to happen to Obama.

I wonder why if these congressional want to be's want to indict someone..why not start with ex-president Bush...since this stuff they are after Holder for started in Bush's administration..no one complained then...at least no republicans. With all that congress should have already done..this is nuts...congress has gotten nothing done that actually helps this nation...and the republicans alone have done nothing at all but complain if it is not their way only.

Why would Obama declare executive privilege, unless it led directly to him? Obama could throw Holder in the creek, and from his pst actions, he is very capable of that act. Seems the corrupt Chicagoan we elected hasn't strayed as far from the ghetto as he would lead us to believe..

Marie: Bush was within his authority to replace the justice officials.

The spineless wimpy Republicans need to be demanding Obama to fire Holder.

If Holder had been more truthful a year ago, he would have been given the benefit of a doubt. However he chose to be deciteful, like O'Bama, and now it's time to pay for that error. O'Bama will throw his boy Eric under the bus to protect himself, but will Eric sacrifice himself for O'Bama is the next question. I believe what we are seeing is the unraveling of a very deceitful, lying O'Bama Administration. O'Bama's Watergate is about to flood the White House. Intelligence Leaks from the White House have cost American Lives, all because of the drive for the "Vote". "Fast & Furious", again from the White House, has cost American Lives, all because of the drive for the "Vote". We have a President that is sacrificing American Lives, destroying the U.S. Economy and encouraging others to violate our laws in order to pander for the Vote.

Best question was asked by Sen. Grassley: "Why would the administration cite executive privilege to protect documents they claim they've never seen?"

Wizard...

The main impediment to electing INDEPENDENTS, not beholden to either major political party, Republican or Democrat, lies in the States. It is there that the Congressional district lines are drawn, and it is there that the "rules" regarding getting on the election ballot are developed.

Unfortunately, the rules developed in the states, are designed intentionally to avoid any major challenge to the establishment parties. And, of course the ideologues from those parties voting for their party hack regardless of his/her history of deceit or illegalities. He/She is "MY" party and I'll vote that party no matter what.

I like to believe it is not too late to save our country, but I'm losing more hope everyday.

In a second major retraction over its version of the the gun-walking scandal, the Justice Department has retracted Attorney General Eric Holder's charge in a hearing last week that his Bush administration predecessor had been briefed on the affair.

Ooops....yet another lie.

Give me a break. To the uninitiated civilian eye (as in that of virtually everyone on this site), Fast and Furious was an ill-advised boys' own adventure loaded for disaster, but as usual, there's plenty of stupidity and opportunism to go around on both sides of the aisle here.

If the Republicans had initiated Fast and Furious, they'd be defending it as if it were the Second Coming. Regardless, Southern California's own six-foot stack of sleaze, car alarm baron Darrell Issa, is quite possibly the last man on the planet to be questioning anyone's ethics.

You moan and groan about Bush and WMD's ....

Funny how so many IED's were used as WMD's against our troops ....

I can understand the Obama administration's not wanting to turn classified documents over to Congress. Aside from doing nothing useful, Congress leaks like a sieve. If you want to keep anything secret for any reason whatsoever, legitimate or otherwise, the last thing you want to do is turn it over to Congress.

XDm9mm,

I did not say elect "Independents". I said work to elect individuals with integrity, honesty and maybe actually do some honest research on the people we elect, instead of electing people because we like their 30 second sound bytes on TV.

There have to be some decent, honest people out there attempting to get into political office. Not all Republicans or Democrats can be ideologically driven, power hungry megalomaniacs who think they're entitled to dictate to the rest of us.

If they are...then we are TOTALLY screwed and nothing will ever change.

Give me a break. To the uninitiated civilian eye (as in that of virtually everyone on this site), Fast and Furious was an ill-advised boys' own adventure loaded for disaster, but as usual, there's plenty of stupidity and opportunism to go around on both sides of the aisle here.

Translation: Everybody does it so stop picking on my guy.

Truth: The program isn't the part being investigated right now. Thanks to Holder's previous lies and subsequent retractions of key testimony the issue now is of cover-up.

If the Republicans had initiated Fast and Furious, they'd be defending it as if it were the Second Coming. Regardless, Southern California's own six-foot stack of sleaze, car alarm baron Darrell Issa, is quite possibly the last man on the planet to be questioning anyone's ethics.

Translation: Blame the messenger.

Truth: The Republicans didn't initiate this but if they did YOU would be demanding scalps. This is a Democtat sh*t sandwich. Eat up.

Congress has the legal authority of oversight on the executive branch. It's their job.

I think this does make Obama look bad. Makes him look guilty. Makes it look like he KNEW all along what was happening and maybe gave the order himself to let the guns walk across the border.

All as a wild scheme to ban guns in the USA.

Why would Obama block documents supposedly he hasn't seen? Unless he HAS seen them. Unless they point to him!

I can understand the Obama administration's not wanting to turn classified documents over to Congress. Aside from doing nothing useful, Congress leaks like a sieve. If you want to keep anything secret for any reason whatsoever, legitimate or otherwise, the last thing you want to do is turn it over to Congress.

Actually it looks like it's the White House that is leaking like a sieve - at least with regards to sensitive national security info.

Good gawd. If Obama was a Republican president, this story would already have exploded all over the media. A long time ago. There would be very loud demands for impeachment. Instead, our extremely biased liberal media treats this as a "nothing to see here...move along now" story, effectively sweeping it under the rug. Just unbelievable !!!

stexacn- are you kidding- conservatives have been giving Obama the benefit of the doubt up till now? conservatives have never given him an inch of respect or a chance to help this country. they have constantly showed nothing but hatred & intolerance towards him, no matter what he did it was wrong and if something good happened (like the slow employment growth) Obama had nothing to do with it, it would of happened anyways after a recession, according to your savior Romney- and if Romney wins he will listen to norquist and whats left of the middle classs is screwed. and if he is guilty because of asserting the ex. privilege (first time) than what does that say about Bush using the privilege 6 times in 8 yrs?

King Obama at it's best, hail to King Obama MSNBC, Feisty, Rachel "Mad cow" Maddow.

I can't believe that I voted for this President. he lost my vote.

It's really fun watching all of you closet bigot morons salivate over this "Fast and Furious" BS!!

This whole witch hunt is only because there is a black man in the white house, and to make things worse, The Attorney General of the US is black...

Seriously...they race card? How freaking Pavlovian.

So what does Obama have to hide??????????????

I suspect that Holder lied to Congress about what he knew, which is a criminal act that could put him in jail, and now Obama is invoking 'Executive Privilege' to delay giving them the proof until after the election, and then Obama can 'Pardon' Holder before he leaves office.

I don't think 'Executive Privilege' worked very well for Nixon, did it?

It's at least a little encouraging to see so 'few' people defending the Administration, on an MSNBC site no less.

Regardless of party this is about as straight up as it gets today. These people lied, obfuscated, and were intentionally deceitful to their own Agents and later Congress. Their ill-advised program led to countless Mexican deaths and the death of two Border agents. Who knows if any American Civilians are included in this yet that we just don't know about. I'm sure eventually that will happen as well.

In any other era of our Nation's history, The President and the Attorney General would not just be impeached. They would be frog marched out of their respective buildings in chains headed to jail. This stuff makes Nixon look like a boy scout. There is no reason to defend either of these people other then blind ideology. I'm sorry, I actually CARE about Americans and Mexican Civilians getting killed in this fashion, with our Government directly involved. I won't stoop to that level.

All in all the political parties are the ones destroying our country along with the fools who (no matter the situation) blindly blame the opposing party.. Fast and the Furious was a dumb idea plain and simple and withholding documents from the legal authority in charge of oversight is the same as a Police department telling internal affairs they will not be investigated because the governor is best friends with the police chief.... It is not rational for any party to support the presidents decision on this...

Trying to think outside the box...if Obama didn't know, why invoke executive privilege?

Maybe the documents not only show who knew what and when, but also the details of what when on in Mexico as a result. If it was known people were being killed with these weapons and nobody did anything about it, a critical voting bloc will be angered.

And just like that, the Hispanic vote disappears. Hence the Dreamer announcement the other day?

Willing.Sniper,

"Congress has the legal authority of oversight on the executive branch. It's their job."

Yes, it is their job. But since when has Congress lately been big on doing its job? And in this case, it is not "Congress" as a whole that is pressing for the release of these documents, but, rather, a certain party within Congress, obviously for the purpose of making the White House look bad more than for finding the "truth". It's an election year. Get it?

Funny how the emphasis is not on how to fix the issue of illegal weapons. It is all about what appears to be a fishing expedition. Every police officer knows the dangers of fish hunts. Also, I have not heard whether the documents Issa is looking for are even releasable - a claim made by Holder. There are documents held by prosecutor's that are not publicly releasable (I suspect this is why Holder offered to brief the committee on them).

Perhaps, this is all the Republicans are going offer us for giving them control of the House. A witch hunt on a vulnerable Attorney General. Nothing about jobs, nothing about the economy, or our budgetary crisis. They are good at saying "No" - not so much about saying "Yes."

Are our expectations of our government so low that this is all we expect from them?

Do you remember a couple years ago when the Liberal Democrats were pushing for tougher gun laws because so many American-made guns ended up in Mexico?

This invoking of executive privilege by Obama means one of two things. Either he and his administration are guilty of perjury in lying to Congress about White House involvement in Fast and Furious or Obama is attempting to break the law by asserting executive privilege over documents that the privilege does not apply to. Either way this makes Obama out to be a criminal who should be impeached from office.

Has anyone here even bothered to read the executive privilege letter address to Issa? It states clearly that the documents he is NOW trying to secure relate to the internal investigation of the operation and the rescinded Feb. 4th letter. That internal investigation is still on-going and those are the documents that the president has exercised the executive privilege over. As with all of Issa's other "congressional oversight investigations", this is nothing but another political grandstanding case. Even before he officially became the head of this committee, he stated that he was going to do everything in his power to "destroy" through embarrassment this administration.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/05/15/darrell-issa-fast-and-furious-campaign-against-team-obama/

JS in SD,

"Either way this makes Obama out to be a criminal who should be impeached from office."

If I remember correctly, the GOP already tried that trick on Bill Clinton, and it didn't work, much to the embarrassment of the GOP.

Oops, I got interrupted before I could proof my post and missed that "address" was supposed to be "addressed."

Has anyone here even bothered to read the executive privilege letter address to Issa? It states clearly that the documents he is NOW trying to secure relate to the internal investigation of the operation and the rescinded Feb. 4th letter. That internal investigation is still on-going and those are the documents that the president has exercised the executive privilege over. As with all of Issa's other "congressional oversight investigations", this is nothing but another political grandstanding case. Even before he officially became the head of this committee, he stated that he was going to do everything in his power to "destroy" through embarrassment this administration.

That's because Holder has been caught twice lying to Congress. So yes...the investigation has turned on Holder's cover-up rather than the program itself. Hardly political grandstanding.

SEE, I told you there is more going on here than what we the Citizens of the United States Of America are being told! and imagine this, we are footing the bill for this too. no wonder this country is sinking, being sold out, being compromised, no wonder our taxes are as high as pluto, no wonder people are panicing, no wonder the government officials are going crazy! (i believe they are getting ready for a REPUBLICAN administration)

and imagine that! today obama used his executive priviledge, for the first time since taking office. a little too late i venture to say. if he really wanted to do SOMETHING, he should have exercised this a long time ago! oh well, guess we taxpayers and voters and citizens have to keep our attention focused on the government until NOVEMBER. Hey obama, quit trying to act like BILL CLINTON, now he used his executive priviledge many times.

The Republicans should shut up, really, since they already did what Obama just did.

Two wrongs don't make a right. But they do make two political parties: The Democrats and Republicans.

Joke is on the fans of one party over the other. Revenge for that kind of stupidity is just letting one party fans be their own miserable selves.

Dasvet

Why would Obama declare executive privilege, unless it led directly to him? Obama could throw Holder in the creek, and from his pst actions, he is very capable of that act. Seems the corrupt Chicagoan we elected hasn't strayed as far from the ghetto as he would lead us to believe..

Pretty racist there,Dasvet... got anything else you need to unload? Go ahead and throw around the n word. You'll feel better.

One very good reason to resist turning over everything they have is because they will not be satisfied until they have total access to anything and everything Obama does or thinks about doing. Further, it's clear that they are not so much interested in the truth as they are anything that can possibly taint Obama. Have they even attempted to question anyone from the previous administration that started this debacle? No. Why is that? Because they don't want truth, they want Obama. Also bush would refuse as well. How many times did he plead EP? I think their time would be better spent if they worried less about things like FnF and women's wombs and more about fixing our economy and tax code and addressing both sides of the debt equation.

ALL OF YOU STATING THIS STARTED WITH MR. BUSH. Atty Gen holder rescinded his statement on what he said about Mr. Bush knowing about this issue. Ok boys and girls put on your thinking caps. If this were Mr. Bush's fault why would we have not already had Mr. Obama and Staff pushing that news all over America? Because its not true and the back lash would be even worse.

A lot of whinning from democrats who play the same game.

The game is to accuse someone of doing something illegal, (even if no law was broken). Then all you have to do is wait for them to mess up a statement or say something you can prove is false and you have a perjury charge.

The leaking of Valerie Blames name was NOT illegal because she had not been covert for a number of years. The leak of her name was actually done by Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage. Scooter Libby (who did not leak the name) was charged with perjury and obstruction in the case. So basically Scooter Libby was charged and convicted for lying and obstructing an investigation into something that was not a crime and that he was not involved in. See how this works?

So now the pay back, investigate Holder and when he is caught lying (which is almost a certainty) he can be forced to resign and may have charges issued against him regardless of the actually fast and furious case outcome.

This is a very distructive game that ruins good peoples lives and reputations, not to mention it sends a clear message to good people not to accept any such postition of Public service, but both sides do it, and when your side does it and you cheer don't cry foul when it comes back at you.

Holder should have been charged with lying to congress eight months ago when he started and charged additonal counts with every lie and Jughead right along with him.

The Wizard of Wisdom

Sorry it took me so long to get back.....

I believe we are SCREWED. While there might be decent, honest and honorable people within the major political parties, they all ultimately bow down to their lord and master..... the big campaign contributors. What is truly amazing is that the lemmings for both major parties don't realize the money trail for BOTH parties go back to the same money trees.

That's why I say Independent. Invariably, they are the ones who receive contributions for campaigns from the people within their districts... the voters and constituents in the district. The big money avoids them as they don't have the power base. But the real power lies with the people. Corporations and special interest groups can't vote (at least not yet) and only the people can vote. An Independent is only beholden to the PEOPLE that put him/her in office, and that is as it should be. They don't have to answer to the powerful money or special interests.

I'll put it into some really sinmple terms:

The President wanted more gun laws, so he/his administration created the "US is the source for cartel guns" line and pushed for a means to support it. If it succeeded he'd get to create all sorts of "common sense" gun laws. Fortunately for us it failed miserably and there is evidence all over from the explosion.

So Holder rounded up all of his BATFE and DOJ workers and reassigned them so that they can't/won't talk, he supressed the murder file on Terry and won't honor FOI requests, the DOJ declared that Terry's family aren't "victims" and won't be compensation- and the case is closed, he sat in front of Congress and told them he didn't know anything (while supressing files), and now he's starting to crack under the threat of legal action from Congress.

The President needs Holder now more than ever- Holder has to help him cover up the "leaks" scandal as well as "Fast and Furious" and a few other inquiries of merit. If Holder has to step down he can't oversee the special investigator he assigned to the cases (under his pervue, not with no limits/access to government information as has been done at other times) and the investigators may say something damaging to the President before November. Can't have that. So the President does a document grab in hopes to slow down the process (hoping through November). If he gets re-elected it doesn't matter. Impeachment proceedings- severly doubt it with such a divided Congress.

The United States government knowingly allowed illegal gun sales to cross the border into another country. Not something we would stand for if Canada or Mexico were doing the same to us. This was a plan by liberals that wanted to show the American people how assault weapons sold in the US were resulting in gun violence in other countries. An effort aimed at garnering support for an assault weapons ban. So we were always meant to hear about this situation, just not in the manner we did. This obviously reaches to the White House, or there would be no need to claim executive privilege over the documents. Obama is clearly hiding something.

Tsk, tsk.

After reading a number of posts on this vine, I'm amazed at how many people have bought into this Republican political theater. These GOP idiots are beyond worthless; with them it’s all politics all the time. They never do anything or even try to pass legislation that might actually help the country, you know like a JOBS BILL

Don't you hate when facts get in the way of fun "political theater"!

House passes JOBS Act, sends bill to Obama - 3/27/2012 Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/2chambers/post/house-passes-jobs-act-sends-bill-to-obama/2012/03/27/gIQA9DfZeS_blog.html

So a poor policy implementation by state level Fed Agents in Obama Administration vs Deliberate Security Leaks about a CIA undercover agent by Karl Rove/Libby..... not to say a false war and billion in no bid contract to Haliburton..... come repubs .. I know you have no sense of justice .... but even by your own (ie. low) standards .... this is hitting too low and too shallow. Get over it and support your also-ran-presidential-candidate Willard. The lifeless - clueless - connectionless - new-found-friend-of-trump - abortion-approving-turned-pro-life self-contradicting candidate is going to need every ounce of your energy. So save it for him.

One term president...Mr. Obama - you just sealed your fate! Lifetime criminal...sure looks that way to me.

Got to be the funniest thing I've read for some time now. I read about 50 other posts and this one is still the funniest.

Boy, how the right-winger posters come out in a swarm when there's a story about the Neo-cons getting ready to pounce (and end up with nothing). A real loser crowd with nothing to do but throw mud and hope it sticks.

StoptheCannibals,

This coming from a person whose entire comment is nothing but an insult laden rant. Yeah, you're definitely a real winner yourself.

Look in the mirror and you'll see a textbook definition of the word "hypocrite".

The sad part about all these comments is it seems like nobody wants to hold people accountable for their actions anymore. It has nothing to do with repubs and dems, and you idiots bringing Bush into this are as stupid as I have ever seen. This has NOTHING at all to do with Bush. No matter what happened in history... BUSH is NOT our president this is ALL Obama. And he needs to be held responsible for his actions. The fact is you libs attack bush but you should realize the American people voted him in twice. So at least support what the country voted for. Obama was voted in this time and he is responsible for our economy at this time and where it is headed and he is responsible for his administration, including the justice department and the leaks coming from the white house. The fact is obama lied to the american people about being transparent and well really everything he said was a lie it has proven in the long run. Why dont we the people stop being so dead set on repubs and dems and look at the picture honestly and when they are crooks like this administration clearly is vote them out. If we continue to just vote for someone because he is a dem or a repub we are going to lose our country very soon. This presdient is clearly anti-american and anti-freedom. He does NOT undertsand the Republic at all, we are not a democracy we are a Republic we have three brnches of government that are EQUAL to each other. One writes and passes the laws one enforces those same las without question and the other upholds the laws if constitutional. It is how we were built, this president has chosen to be king and ignore our republic and if you dont see that you really are blind from the truth. And anyone that does that is a danger to our nation from within. We are on the verge of total collapse and we need strong leadership in teh white house and congress or we will collapse very soon. I am asking all of you that read this to stop with the repubs and dems support and start supporting our nation as Americans and just be honest with yourself. This incident is wrong and obama and holder should be held accountable and it has NOTHING to do with Bush or lincoln or reagan or clinton it iis ALL Obama and his lack of leadership. Come on America start holding people accountable again before its too late

Dear Republicans and Democrats.

You are still stupid.

And boring.

And still fat.

Wake me when you are not two moron political parties.

Last I looked the Justice dept. is in the executive branch of government, therefore to claim executive privilege seems entirely appropriate if there are operational reasons for non-disclosure .

Once again a GOP initiated witch hunt. When you've got nothing to offer, obstruct, obfuscate, investigate, prosecute. This is the GOP playbook, we've seen them pull it the entire time Clinton was in office and we watched them ignore any accountability when Shrub boy or Reagan was in. Want to keep score, how many Republicks were convicted and went to jail and then pardoned. Dems win again.

One more difference, The Repubs have had the house since 2010, I can see their razor focus on jobs, not. But the first opportunity to start an investigation they took it. Pelosi, confronted with so many corrupt violations from the last administration, simply stated they were moving on. Repubs are dying off, and with behavior as they've exibited, they won't be replaced and money alone won't be able to buy new ones.

Marie, every new administration does that. Look at the Clintons. They even fired the travel office so Hilary could put her cousins in charge. Get a clue.

Looks like we haven't advanced a whole lot since the McCarthy trials of the 1950's.

Add witch hunting to the list which includes voter suppression, anti-abortion, women's rights etc. A list that the GOP consistently prioritizes over jobs and the economy. You have to admire their focus on getting rid of Obama from the GitGo - no matter what the cost to the country.

Pure politics. McCarthy almost brought the country to its knees. Issa will have social media to contend with.

One term president...Mr. Obama - you just sealed your fate! Lifetime criminal...sure looks that way to me.

Hmmm...funny...if he's a "one term President", why does the latest Bloomberg poll have him ahead by 53-40???

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-20/q-a-why-is-obama-winning-if-we-re-on-wrong-track-.html

If you believe the democratic/republican government, you should never leave your room, unless under the supervision of a responsible adult.

bigbenalaska

You moan and groan about Bush and WMD's ....

Funny how so many IED's were used as WMD's against our troops ....

You do know what WMD stands for right? ROFL

As we have seen before in American politics...it's not the crime, it's the cover up that brings you down...hopefully Eric Holder is being 100% honest and forthright...but if not.....this may turn into "Holder Gate"!

Name a special investigator and let that person look at all the withheld material, if there is nothing there Holder wins and is vindicated, if not...open the gates and let us all "look in"!

tyler

Restored a lot of comments, but not derails about Viners not present.

You mods are horribly selective on who you ban. Never seen worse forum enforcement.

uaw-779887Actually for the party that has no facts this program was started by Bush and the democrats wanted to end it and the Retards wouldn't allow it...

Right that's why 10 million was allocated to it in the stimulus bill.

"I am not a crook" --- Obama Milhouse Nixon

I would like to know why Feisty Redhead isn't on here with her Pom Poms flashing rah rah for Obama's henchman. I mean it is only obvious Holder should be thrown in jail and prosecuted for withholding information as well as his role if any in this. At best he is covering up and it only goes downhill from there. Just another example of Obama's czar run administration thinking they are above the law and live by do as I say not as I do. What if any regular person did this? They would be thrown in jail and forgotten about especially where it involves guns. This was his attempt at slamming more gun laws down the average citizens throat by making gun sales look corrupt and it all went awry and the government coverup was blown and tragically there are lost lives by those same hands that attempted to push a bad sale onto honest citizens. This is what happens when our administration gets caught in their own web of lies and media spin.

I bet right about now Obama is wishing he would wake up from this nightmare and it would still be early May. I've followed politics my whole life and I don't know that I've ever seen political fortunes turn on a dime like they have for Obama. It started with Scott Walker winning his recall race in Wisconsin and it will end with the SCOTUS throwing out his crappy health care law AND siding with AZ on enforcement of immigration law. In-between those events, June has been a one month long train wreck for this administration. Community Organizers make $hitty presidents.

After reading lots of posts here, I am delighted to see the number of people who have seen through Obama's alleged charm. The truth will set us free and we will vote the truth in November, well if he and Holder aren't already in jail before the election. The day after we get rid of him and his henchmen and czars, we will scrap every one of his illegal executive orders and find all he tried to hide with executive privilage. Someone can then tell him he is not now, never has been and never will be King.

Interesting that about a year ago both Eric Holder AND the president's administration both stated they knew nothing about it. Now we find out Eric Holder lied about that. So Congress wants more information so what does the Community Organizer in Chief do? He states "Executive Privilege". Does Obama not know what he just did? He claimed a year ago he doesn't know anything about it but NOW states the DOJ can't forward because it has important information included from the White House itself. That's not ME stating that. The "executive privilege" argument says that. The only way a president can use "executive privilege" is if there is confidential information regarding the executive branch. So Obama just confirmed for the people that he DID know something about it.

Kenn the Dem stated it perfectly that the downfall of American presidents is NOT the event but rather the cover-up. Nixon and Watergate: Nixon did nothing wrong but tried to cover it up and LIED about it. Clinton and Lewinsky: So he got a little pleasure on the side-that is not a crime: But LYING under oath is and he almost got kicked out. Same here. If Obama had simply said he authorized (or at minimum knew about it) there would have been a political outcry but that is not a crime (at least from what I know about Fast and Furious). And the debate would have died down. But if Obama LIED about it that could be his downfall........

Did you all just not read the story, or did you read it just enough to find fault with Obama? Some of you missed the fact that the Bush administration had their own version of "Fast and Furious" not once, but twice. Where did those guns go?

Gun-walking has long been barred by Justice Department policy, but federal agents in Arizona experimented with it in at least two investigations during the George W. Bush administration before Fast and Furious. These experiments came as the department was under widespread criticism that the old policy of arresting every suspected low-level "straw purchaser" was still allowing tens of thousands of guns to reach Mexico. A straw purchaser is an illicit buyer of guns for others.

You also missed the section in the story where Holder said that he would turn over the documents, but wanted to take the new documents before a Congressional committee and an assurance from Issa that the documents would satisfy the subpeona. Neither of which Issa would agree too.

Holder told reporters he would not turn over documents on the gun-smuggling probe unless Issa agreed to another congressional briefing on the Justice Department material. Holder wanted an assurance from Issa that the transfer of the records would satisfy a subpoena from the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, which Issa heads.

While we are at it, you missed the part of this story where the investigation into "Fast and Furious" has ended and now the committee formed to investigate that is instead trying to investigate whether the Obama administration tried to cover something up. All this simply because the Justice Department misspoke. What a crock of hooey.. This is a witch hunt orchestrated by Boehner and his GOP cronies in an attempt to discredit the POTUS and his administration. They have absolutely no interest in how those guns disappeared, or how they later turned up and were used to kill an innocent man. The GOP is only interested in digging for dirt in an election year.

Shame on this administration for losing track of those weapons, but SHAME on the Republicans for trying to use it to discredit this President and get votes for Romney.

Marie post#1.2

It is a big deal. This was our justice department arming drug lords, that the arms ended up killing innocent people and a border guard.

Even IF the whole thing was just a dumb move, all Holder had to do was provide the requested 140,000 documents. They'd have gone through them Chided him for his departments incompetence (assuming nothing illegal), possibly some regulation get's slapped on them, and we all go home happy.

How it has been handled reeks of something illegal or unacceptable to the American citizens.

OK, now contempt of Congress charges have been filed against Holder. Let's clarify a few things:

"Issa wanted the documents immediately. Holder told reporters he would not turn over documents on the gun-smuggling probe unless Issa agreed to another congressional briefing on the Justice Department material. Holder wanted an assurance from Issa that the transfer of the records would satisfy a subpoena from the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, which Issa heads."

Meaning- Holder wanted Issa, etc. to sign on the dotted line that whatever he provided to the committee would be the only submission to the committee (no matter what else was exposed by those docs or further information required). It was a non-starter- I'll give you specifically what documents you are asking for, but don't ask for any more. What if a few were mistakenly omitted? Oops?? Clearly Holder was attempting to obstruct further.

On the vote- down party lines. This is just another example of how our party system is failing us. If the oversight committee's directive is justice and clarity then it's obvious that the partisanship was going to sink them anyways. If Holder clearly didn't answer the committee's questions and withheld documents, then anyone on that committee should have realized that he was doing a disservice to the committee and breaking Congressional laws/statutes. He should have been charged and it should have been an overwhelming inditement of him based on facts, not partisanship.

I hope they start those hearings soon and get Holder out as AG. Remember that he's controlling the investigators/prosecutors for the other federal investigations of the classified information leaks, the secret service, etc. If he's willing to obstruct justice on Fast and Furious, what's saying that he won't control the information provided to the special investigators that report to him?? (please note that at other times the same special investigators assigned are "independent", do not report to anyone within the government prior to their findings and have full access to governmental records. These gentlement do not.) It's best to get rid of Holder now, for the sake of the truth.

Willing.Sniper,

"I am not a crook" --- Obama Milhouse Nixon"

No, I think you mean Richard Milhouse Nixon. He's the one who really said that. He was a famous (or should I say infamous) Republican president. Remember? Back in the early 1970's? He had to resign to avoid being impeached.

Did you all just not read the story, or did you read it just enough to find fault with Obama? Some of you missed the fact that the Bush administration had their own version of "Fast and Furious" not once, but twice. Where did those guns go?

Holder rescinded that claim. Sadly the press hasn't updated their cheat sheet. You will have to come up with a new defense since "It's Bush's fault" ain't working with this one.

jollyoldsoul...asks his republican boys and girls to put on their thinking caps.........ok.......now we understand all the factless rants going on.

I ask Issa to turn over every document he has to me. Never done before? Senitive documents on other open cases in them not pertaining to this case?.......I am just fishing....Isasa.......no problem is there?

funkster01Did you all just not read the story, or did you read it just enough to find fault with Obama? Some of you missed the fact that the Bush administration had their own version of "Fast and Furious" not once, but twice. Where did those guns go?

Did you just read this article and miss all of the facts that have come out over the last 18 months?

Differences between the Bush programs and Fast and Furious. Both the US and Mexican governments knew about the previous ones. The Mexican government did not know about Fast and Furious and according to what they would have us believe neither did the US government. Bush programs they attempted to track the guns, Fast and Furious they did not. With the Bush programs they shut them down when they figured out that the weren't working, Fast and Furious was not shut down until after our agents were killed and it became an embarassment. Bush programs no federal agents were murdered, Fast and Furious not so much.

You have a little catch up reading to do: http://www.cbsnews.com/8300-31727_162-10391695.html?keyword=Fast+and+Furious

Mr. Issa comes from a family of criminals lets be clear first and foremost. Second they have done NOTHING at all. The President simply enacts another executive order to render the goper's pointless. Period. [.].. In fact the public knows what this is really about that being partisan hatred and a holier than thou construct that cannot hold. Because the goper's still have done NOTHING positive for the country. ; ]

In the end the voters will be saying good bye and good riddance to this partisan do nothing ever anti gay anti abortion and women hating prone gop controlled congress. Because make NO mistake it is the congress alone that says what comes up for a vote when and how and the tea bagging republican extremist in government do nothing but anti abortion anti gay and women hating. ; ] Not one government job bill because they KNOW the only jobs the government can create are GOVERNMENT jobs. And yet again a show, a fiasco of trying to take steps towards putting another American out of work knowing full well it won't happen.

I think the term mental "self gratification" comes to mind for the tea bagging republican extremist in government. Because actions speak louder than words and what actions has this congress taken? Besides downgrades and fiasco? ;]

Cheers

Mickey-1983943 "Willing.Sniper, "I am not a crook" --- Obama Milhouse Nixon"...........No, I think you mean Richard Milhouse Nixon."

Not a big fan of facetiousness, are you?

"When the President does it, that means that it's not illegal." ~ Richard M. Obama Nixon

“I am not a crook” – Obama Millhouse Nixon

It is obvious Obama has something criminal to hide, otherwise he wouldn't be using "executive privilege" to try to hide it. This isn't a national security issue. This is government malfeasance he is attempting to cover up. Administration officials lied to Congress, Obama knew it, and that's a crime.

Holder wanted an assurance that the documents requested would satisfy the subpeona. Okay. lets clarify:

1. Nowhere did it say only the documents Holder was willing to give. It clearly said the documents requested. This should satisfy any subpeona, but the committee wants dirt, so when they find that the requested documents don't have any, Holder wanted an assurance that the witch hunt would be over. Issa refused

2. Holder wanted to present the documents in front of a congressional committee prior to giving them to Issa and his oversight committee. This is a smart move on Holders part, because when Issa discovers this batch of documents doesn't have any dirt and wants to dig some more, Holder has a congressional committee that has looked over the documents and can attest to the fact that they did satisfy the subpeona. This is smart lawyering 101, but again Issa refused.

Why would Issa refuse to let a congressional committe see the documents that Holder was willing to give him? He refused because it would have given Holder ammunition if Issa decided his witch hunt didn't find anything in the documents and wanted yet more. It would have shut down Issa's ability to keep digging through every document the Justice Department has in an attempt to find dirt on this administration.

Holders is no idiot, but Issa sure qualifies.

Its very clear why this President invoked Executive Privelege. It's the only way to keep the GOP from trying to strong arm him and his adminstration.

the Republicans in Congresshave have done nothing to improve the job situation but they do have time to spend the tax payer's money on witch hunt going after Obama and his Administration on something that was actually originated under Bush/Cheney. They would try to destroy another human being for political gain. Evil and corrupt and enept. Some of you on the right who think this is just all so wonderful might think about what your elected representatives have not done for your districts. Issa's district for instance is over 11% unemployed and exactly other than being a lobbyist for profit, he has done nothing to create jobs. What kind of a-holes are you voting into office?

Let's fix this.

Fast and furious resulted in measurable deaths to include at least one federal agent and countless Mexicans.

This is not about Republicans Vs. Democrats this is about an out of control government lying about the scope of operations. Further was a direct attack on the Second Amendment since this was going to be used to justify past hit pieces saying Mexican DTO's were buying American guns FOR use in Mexico!

Anyone defending this liar Eric Holder is anti-american and everyone KNOWS Obama knew full well about Fast and Furious.

Are we a nation of laws or not?

Also I don't CARE WHAT BUSH did he was not asked to furnish documents on operations under his watch.

Yes WMD was found in Iraq anyone who says none were found is a straight up liar.

Yes massive amounts of precursor WMD materials were found in Iraq and yes we went to war based on flawed intelligence.

So flawed in fact Saddam made a habit of blustering about what he had.

Back to the point Bush is gone that flawed chapter of American history is over we are on to a new flawed corrupt chapter.

Eric Holder needs to be fired or forced to resign and put on trial for perjury at a minimum.

Obama is as corrupt as corrupt can be America can do better but do we deserve better?

Roy Wilson,

"Willing.Sniper, "I am not a crook" --- Obama Milhouse Nixon"...........No, I think you mean Richard Milhouse Nixon."

"Not a big fan of facetiousness, are you?"

It's not that. It's just that I believe in giving credit where credit is due.

LMAO!!!!

The Right has been crotch-blocking the POTUS for 3 years now and the first time he gets some payback, It's a big deal...... (all excuses to the Agent's family aside...)

LMAO!!

They can dish it but SURE CANT TAKE IT!!

LMAO!!!!! Hahahahahah!!!!

Conservatives.....

Bringing you the finest in comedy since GWB!!

LMAO!!!

Holder rescinded that claim.

The claim was not Holders, but one mentioned in this very story. I don't see how Holder can rescind a claim that he didn't make. Check it out.. It wasn't a Holder quote, but news media research.

Back to the root of this thread, it's interesting how the haters get history twisted up in their little minds so easily.....Nixon left without any American deaths.....have you ever heard of Viet Nam it was this little "police action" back in the 70s perhaps you can go to the library and look it up, read a little before making such a dumb statement.

Repubs going after Eric Holder...Because is he stopping the voter suppression laws, especially in Florida. Nothing more ...nothing less. Republicans taking away your right to vote.

@ Melissa - The Republicans would never have to defend Fast and Furious as they would never be stupid enough to give guns to criminals! Is our Govt becoming as stupid as though whe get those govt. grants for silly projects like studying the sex lives of birds on crack? It is stupid and waste of money at the college level and it is even more stupid to do it at the govt. level. The people who came up with this idea need to be called on the carpet for it. End of story.

Seeing as how I find Eric Holder to be one the most contemptible people around today, somehow this fits.

bulletstopper,

"You have suspended some for vile comments. Will you also then suspend Bev or Feisty for theirs?

Read their pages and then tell the members of the vine how they are able to promote their negative attacks while others are suspended."

I have not generally seen negative attacks against other Newsviners by Bev and Feisty. Most of their attacks that I have seen have been against politicians, generally Republicans, and I personally find them quite funny. But then again, I'm a Democrat. Are you a Republican by any chance? I think the rules only prohibit negative attacks against other Newsviners; not negative attacks against politicians. Politicians are fair game, I think.

Jennifer,

let's go through your last post.

Issa's district for instance is over 11% unemployed and exactly other than being a lobbyist for profit, he has done nothing to create jobs. What kind of a-holes are you voting into office?

Nice generalization, but after blowing several trillion dollars with marginal results, what kind of a-holes are YOU voting into office. The POTUS has been pretty much campaigning for re-election since day one. Two sides of the same coin, don't fool yourself.

Wow, just wow tyler...

Harassment and/or intimidation of others on Newsvine will not be tolerated, and patterns of such behavior may result in account cancelation

Why are First Read posts not subject to newsvines Code of Honor? Being a member of newsvine since mid 2010 I must say that I have read of many being suspended or banned from posting on a variety of newsvine boards except for the First Read/First Thought boards. Sally may have once.

Why doesn't the FR boards have monitors? BTW - fiesty redhead of roselle ill is probably the best example of someone continuing a program of harassment, intimidation and insults with impunity that I have ever seen. I will give you and sally credit for enforcing the code outside of FR as fiesty has been subjected to suspensions on non FR boards.

Again, why are the FR boards exempt from newsvines code of honor? I suppose the operative word here in the code is "may"

The worst part of this whole thing is that Holder will end up walking. Obama will grant him a pardon in the wee hours of Jan 19, 2013. Obama will be the last man left out in the cold. He cannot pardon himself. A lame duck President should not be allowed to grant pardons.

The big difference between Watergate and this, people died!

Bassai- Did you just read this article and miss all of the facts that have come out over the last 18 months?

The simple fact that the Bush administration attempted this same type of program on two separate occasions implies that both administrations thought they saw some benefit in the attempt. That this administration lost track of those weapons is tragic, but not criminal. Also, we routinely do not inform foreign governments that we are running special ops in their countries. These are called, "Clandestine Operations". Makes no difference that we didn't tell the Mexican government. I'm willing to bet that we have a lot of other stuff going on in that country that their government isn't aware of. Same thing happened with Pakistan and Bin Laden. Probably got a few operations happening in this country that you and I haven't been briefed on too.

It does not matter that one administration knew which bad guys had the weapons and the other administration lost track of who had them. The weapons made it into the bad guys hands under both administrations. I would surmise that the bad guys used these weapons (from both administrations) to shoot each other, but I do not have definitive proof of that.

The point is that the investigation into how this administration lost track of those weapons is long over. We know that they lost track and how they lost track. However, since the Justice Department misspoke the GOP reads this as cover up and they are insisting on documents from the Justice Department to prove there was a cover up. These documents do not exist and Eric Holder has said as much. Holder simply asked that the requested documents be presented in front of a Congressional review panel and that assurances are given that once the documents are turned over the witch hunt stops. Issa has refused both requests.

Since Issa has made it very clear that he is going to keep requesting documents until he finds dirt, or the Justice Department runs out of paper, the President has said, "enough is enough" and invoked Executive privilege.

How much crap does a President have to take from the GOP? How many documents are going to be enough before Issa figures out that what he is after does not, and never did, exist? The answer is Issa will keep digging until Boehner quits pulling his strings. So, good for this President and good for Eric Holder

Witchhunt??? Let's see here, no one died as a result of Watergate and look what all happened to a republican. With our dear leader the story is a mite different, since two federal agents died, along with how many Mexicans? Then you have the FACT that the Mexican authorities weren't involved or even given notice about Fast and Furious, so essentially the Administration, THIS administration is also responsible for smuggling weapons into a soverign nation and into the hands of vicious and murderous drug cartels. No one knows how many Mexicans have been killed by said weapons, however, thousands were 'lost' into Mexico.

You might also take notice that more people have died as a result of the drug cartels than were killed in Viet Nam, however, to your mind, this is only a 'witch hunt.' Yup, guess if Obama's administration hands guns over to killers it's ok, but watch out Syria and the Russians. Only Obama supporters are capable of such hypocricy and that's saying a lot.

As to claims that this is JUST like operation Gunrunner? Wow, apparently no research has been done on this matter by the Obama supporters. Bush INFORMED the Mexican officials, they were in on the deal. Holder hid it from the Mexicans. No one let guns 'get away' in Gunrunner and no one died as a result of those guns. Please inform yourselves before making ignorant statements.

Funkster: There is one very important part to all of this that seems to have escaped your attention. If, as is claimed by the DOJ that there was 'nothing' to it, then why, all of a sudden, the executive order? If you have nothing to hide then why use an executive order to hide 'nothing?'

@ DAVE-610645,

The article clearly states it was Bush that experimented with Gun Walking during his presidency.

"In Fast and Furious, agents of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Arizona abandoned the agency's usual practice of intercepting all weapons they believed to be illicitly purchased. Instead, the goal of gun-walking was to track such weapons to high-level arms traffickers, who had long eluded prosecution, and to dismantle their networks. Gun-walking has long been barred by Justice Department policy, but federal agents in Arizona experimented with it in at least two investigations during the George W. Bush administration before Fast and Furious. These experiments came as the department was under widespread criticism that the old policy of arresting every suspected low-level "straw purchaser" was still allowing tens of thousands of guns to reach Mexico. A straw purchaser is an illicit buyer of guns for others."

So who is really to blame here?

Where there i smoke there usually is fire. What are you hiding Mr President? No matter what it is this lowers your chances of reelection in November

Until voters unite against the corruption of BOTH parties, EVERYTHING is going to be based upon partisanship fighting. Darrell Issa is the BIGGEST Washington Corrupt Whore that ever lived. He purchased his position through misrepresenting his own businesses and literally stealing a Carlsbad Inventor's patent...and there is more yet he was able to sidestep and avoid prosecution through buying off local judges and court systems. He Jerrymandered his District. Because of his actions California voters passed redistricting through voter approval only throughout the entire state. Who is investigating Rep. Issa on HIS use of the Investigative Committee to waste taxpayer dollars prosecuting every issue of the Obama Administration when Dick Cheney overstepped his boundaries as Vice President? Think MEXICAN IMMIGRATION is a PROBLEM? Guess again. Look at your own communities to see how many local businesses have been purchased by Iraqi and Afghani Nationals who collect Medicaid, Food Stamps and General Assistance. Mexican Immigration is a smokescreen to continue to allow migration from the Wars instituted by GW's Warlords, Cheney and Rumsfeld...for what? American Imperialism and arrogance and we are losing our communities to not the Spanish Speaking but the Arabic Speaking Migrants sponsored by....?

If, as is claimed by the DOJ that there was 'nothing' to it, then why, all of a sudden, the executive order? If you have nothing to hide then why use an executive order to hide 'nothing?'

ans: If you tell someone that something doesn't exist, and offer them proof, but they say they are going to keep coming at you regardless of what you show them, you have to put a stop to their stupidity.

If this was me stopping someone I'd simply hit them in the head with a brick in the hopes it would knock some sense into them, but in the case of the POTUS he used the powers he legaly holds to stop them.

If you read the story, Holder offered the documents but wanted assurances and protections that this would be the end and he even requested that the documents be presented in front of a Congressional Review Panel. Those requests were rejected by Issa and his committee. Why would he offer to show these documents to a Congressional Review Panel if they wouldn't satisfy the conditions of the subpoena?

This is a witch hunt. Nothing more and nothing less, so it had to be stopped. The President put a stop because it would never have ended. So short of Boehner getting a cramp in the hand he has up Issa's arse, moving his mouth, this would have drug on forever and ever and this administration has much bigger things to work on than trying to satisfy an endless request for documents.

I hope this answers your question mygirl1

starsailing

Repubs going after Eric Holder...Because is he stopping the voter suppression laws, especially in Florida. Nothing more ...nothing less. Republicans taking away your right to vote.

Absolutely.

You hit the nail right on the head.

In state senatorial and legislative chambers, the Republicans are stripping away the Constitutional right to vote for millions of our citizens. Their voter suppression targets are people of color, seniors, students, the in-firmed and the poor. By suppressing the electoral choices of many people, the GOP hopes to "snatch" another election. If the right wing is truly concerned about what is right, these reactionaries need to ponder the 2 wars that the country unnecessarily jumped in and left over 4,000 of our service women and men dead. Over "Fast and Furious," the GOP is grandstanding.

These reactionaries do not have any true loyalty to this country!

JasonInNYCRestored..interesting...you claimObama has failed..yet..we have a congress who has done absoulty nothing. All any president can do is give congress something to start with...which congress in its own deal making has done nothing with anything. Of course, the republicans have done nothing at all that would favor this country...only themselves. Bush and the republican party started this particular mess..yet not one of the reps ..republicans, has addressed that one...this is politics at its worst...and with Romney in the run for president..it can only get worse.

Rep. Cummings of Maryland, the committee's ranking Democrat, had a different take. He said Issa could have settled the matter with Holder reasonably but has instead resorted to "partisan and inflammatory personal attacks."

Issa? Personal attacks? He's such a genuine gentleman... he would never do that!

Let's back up for one minute. Is Issa trying to prove that someone did something illegal?.. or is he just trying to show stupidity, incompetence, or a lack of judgement relating the the Fast and Furious? Issa needs to go do something useful.

It's all racism, Pres.Obama has time after time landed on his feet ,your hatred of the idea of a black man sleeping in the white house makes your grandpappy turn over in his grave.TO THINK YOU'RE AFFRIAD OF AN IDEA. I guess G.W.Bush was the best......SHAME ON YOU ......OBAMA2012

Here’s a question that I bet my arse none of the tea-nuts
will have an answer for… Why haven’t the obstructionist in the house created a
jobs committee? Why aren’t they putting pressure on their beloved “jobs
creators to create JOBS WITH ALL THE MONEY THEY GET FROM US THE PEOPLE THROUGH
THEIR PAID FOR GOD DAMN WHITE COLLAR CRIMINALS IN OUR CONGRESS? ANSWER THAT!!!
WHERE’S THE GOD DAMN JOBS COMMITTEE?? YEAH THAT’S RIGHT, ALL THE TAX BREAK TO
ALL OF THE GOD DAMN CORPORATIONS AND THE 1% SHOULD HAVE TRICKLED DOWN BY NOW,
BUT I JUST DON’T SEE IT, OR FEEL IT TRICKLING DOWN!!! Every God damn day my
bills are higher, the cost of food is higher, and the F$%$ corporations keep on
draining the money that we the people need while they make record profits!!!
Answer that one tea-nuts. Go do your jobs a-holes and start by creating a jobs committee
instead of peddling BS to us about fast and furious crap that does not help me
or anybody else to put food on our tables, much more less to even pay the most
basic bills. WAKE UP AMERICA THEIR FEEDING YOU MANURE AND YOU’RE EATING IT!!!
ASK THE CRIMINALS IN CONGRESS TO CREATE A JOBS COMMITTEE.

READ the Printed word...Washington Post just released the specificity of the "request documents" by Darrell Issa's Lynch Mob: Wiretapped Telephone Conversations by the Federal Government during the GWB Administration. FACT: FEDERAL LAW PROHIBITS THE RELEASE OF WIRETAPPED CONVERSATIONS FOR ANY REASON. Chew on that one all of you who regurgitate conspiracy theories and refuse to look at the entirety of the situation. It was Eric Holder's DOJ who STOPPED FAST AND FURIOUS...DON'T YOU PEOPLE RESEARCH ANY FACTS BEORE REACTING? THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT MSNBC WANTS TO BAIT YOU WITH! There isn't enough factual information in the preceeding article to draw ANY INTELLIGIBILE CONCLUSIONS by any of you yet you all are asking for Eric Holder and Barak Obama's Heads on a platter! Look at yourselves...you fall for this crap when the real miscarriage of justice on the part of Darrell Issa and his efforts to undermine at any cost a President of the United States of America. Think Democracy works for you? You had better get smarter, use you keyboards to research the Federal Government Archives while you still can, thank the Obama Administration for making that available to you then consider "reacting" on this site or any other. You do exactly what the tabloid media culture wants you to do...react instead of intelligently respond. Amazing how so many of you assert your toxic acidic opinions without researching the facts. Start asking the difficult questions and demand more information before you make a decision and think that this Congress has YOUR best interest in mind. They do not. They only want to make their own egos happy. Hopefully you don't vote this way. If you do, God help you.

Darrell Issa is intentionally wasting American Dollars on a revenge campaign against the Obama administration for an ALREADY CLOSED investigation because he is a right-wing, Romani son-of-a-Nazi who bought his way onto the House Oversight Committee. He has no subpoena power against the justice department unless there is evidence of a crime (on the part of the Obama Administration) which there is NONE, but he lied and said there MIGHT be evidence of a POSSIBLE crime on the part of the (BUSH) Justice Department (he doesn't have to be specific about this, officially) so therefore in his twisted opinion, this Justice Department must go along with his 4 year long, after the investigation was closed witch hunt so he can hang Bush's, Jon Kyl's and John McCain's failed, ill-advised "special op' in the Arizona desert around the election of the Obama Administration. Every pretend-intellectual using what they call 'common sense' to indict the Obama Administration for shutting this nonsense down is conveniently ignoring that this was not Obama's/Holder's op!!!!! It didn't happen during Obama's term!!!! When the Obama administration said it would not re-litigate the previous Administration's dirty laundry Issa saw that as an opportunity to force the issue and use OUR oversight committee for revenge. This man deserves the "Jefferson White House Lawn" treatment for intentionally damaging the value and use of our government institutions and shaking the public's confidence in our United States. He is a traitor. He is a Republican.

GBABY - Finally a response with intelligence based in reality! It does not matter who is President...these actions are contrary to the support of ANY Democracy. We don't have much of one left thank's to those like Darrell Issa, Max Baucus, Mitch McConnell, John Boehner, Eric Cantor and Paul Ryan who are interested in perpetuating their own political careers and personal wealth from the backsides of honest taxpaying citizens. Don't want to pay taxes anymore? Go live in Greece or China where the obscenely wealthy are protected and the weak and vulnerable are left to just die off because they don't count. Humanity at work.

Demetrius Kirkland,

Wow, what an original comment. It's all about racism?? And here we thought it was about the President's attempt at interfering with a legal and legitimate congressional investigation. How silly of us.

Please grow up and come back when you have an intelligent comment to make instead of usual trained parrot response of the liberal wingnut.

The charge of racism is nothing but the inane argument of the terminally clueless.

And Whitefeather?

The fact that your comment only mentions Republicans as the ones ruining this country and being power hungry and greedy only proves your own lack of objectivity and intelligence. Please get a clue and learn to recognize the hypocrisy in your statements.

BOTH parties are a joke. BOTH parties are corrupt, power hungry and care nothing about you or anyone else.

Until you learn to recognize that simple fact...you're just part of the problem like every other ideologue in this country.

Where were the First Class Hypocrite Republicans when it came to questioning the Gestapos Bush and and Dick, the devil about the falsifying the need to go to war with Iraq, outing the agent, Valerie P., etc., etc., etc. ? They should have both been charged with war crimes as well, but weren't because the Democrats didn't care to dwell on past issues or sending more money down the bickering party holes when there were more serious issues needing immediate attention. They should be concentrating on a budget rather than playing school boy political games, but this is just an excuse to put off the budget approval so that they more get more of their demands for the rich. Who in the "Hay" is it that gave Congress a 13% approval rating for their work done? I'm amazed because that score is way too high as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't even give the "Bickering Obstructionist" a score of "O". And I'd give the Senate a 100% for always bowing down to the House whims with protecting the elite, while taking away from the poor and hard working core of citizens (even those too ignorant to vote for the good of the Nation by refusing to do their own research on the candidates).

And one other little thing Whitefeather,

Before asking others whether they can research facts...well you might just want to actually research a few of your own...or at the very least learn some basic critical thinking skills.

If Eric Holder's DOJ stopped Fast and Furious as you claim...then why exactly did Mr. Holder repeatedly claim that he knew nothing about it?? Wouldn't Mr. Holder, as Director of the DOJ, simply explain to Congress that his agency was responsible for shutting down the operation? Wouldn't that have been the INTELLIGENT and RESPONSIBLE thing to do???

But I guess simple questions like that are beyond your ability to consider and question huh?

Please get a freakin clue someday.

all the idiots saying Bush had anything to do with gun running are just LIBERAL RUMPSWABS and I guess didn't hear that Holder retracted the claim Bush's Attorney General Knew about any gun running !

I

Here for people who want to hear who actually started all this Gunwalking aka Fast and Furious stuff anyway. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

If you actually Read the truth it may actually show you that. Congress is wasting American tax dollars on a witchhunt. Holder told the truth about what he was at liberty to discuss. He is actually telling what we all already know. Yet Rep. ISSA is being a grandstanding idiot.

Gunwalking started in the The Bush Administration. They started in 2006 so yet this is just another mess left behind from a Republicans administrations Watch.

MAYBE JUST MAYBE THE REPUBLICAN PART OF CONGRESS SHOULD BE WORRIED ABOUT JOBS AND THEIR CREATION. We have tons of work that needs to be done here at home. It is called infrastructure. Sign the JOBS BILL CONGRESS.

An Independent Thinker,

Apparently thinking isn't your strong suit. Here's a few real facts for you to consider before spouting your ignorant commentary:

Fact: Bush and Cheney did not "falsify" the need to go to war with Iraq. ALL members of Congress, Republican AND Democrat, had complete access to all intelligence that the President and VP had. That's the LAW genius. I also guess you managed to conveniently forget that multiple Democrats with names like Clinton, Kerry, Murtha, Reid, Pelosi, etc. ALL made comments in regards to Saddam Hussein having WMDs...but I guess it's a lot harder to perpetrate a lie when your own side is just as much to blame huh?

Fact: The "Valerie Plame" scandal was never a scandal, except in the bs hypocrisy of the Democrats and liberals. Valerie Plame was NOT a covert operative when her name was leaked. Valerie Plame's husband and neighbors all KNEW that she worked for the CIA. Sorry pal, but covert operatives NEVER reveal what they do while they ARE covert operatives. They don't tend to live very long if they do. I suggest you actually do some real research on Ms. Plame. And by real research, I mean actual documentation on her work history...NOT something printed in a freakin newspaper.

Fact: Your beloved Democrats would have attempted to impeach Bush if they had the slightest chance of succeeding...which they didn't because they would've been held up to the exact same scrutiny in regards to their own involvement with declaring war on Iraq. You liberals blame Bush for all of it, but conveniently forget the Democrats' own involvement and history with the Iraq issue.

I really feel sorry for people like you. Your ideology makes you blind to reality.

Until people like you, on BOTH sides of the political aisle, learn to utilize even basic critical thinking skills and realize that your parties are a lot more alike than they are different and realize that they don't care about you at all and are only interested in their own power and positions...you will continue to be part of the problem and not the solution.

People like you will ALWAYS be part of the problem because you feel instead of think...which is the curse of the human race unfortunately.

Oh, and by the way...before you make the mistake of thinking I'm a Republican or a conservative...I highly suggest you think again.

I have a nice, loooooooooong list of all the things I dislike about them too. Personally, I'm thoroughly sick of all of you on both sides. You'd rather point fingers and play the blame game instead of growing the hell up and acting like adults.

What a bunch of freakin children.

Amazing!

All the rwnj's on here salivating over Obama's impending doom.

If the President's announcement on Friday about a change in enforcement policy on immigration was politically motivated, even though he said last December that he'd do exactly what he did, then what the hell is all this grandstanding by House republicans?

If anyone believes that the people that were killed with the F and F guns wouldn't have been killed at the same time and the same place by different guns had the ATF not gone forward with this operation, they are totally delusional.

This was a poorly conceived, poorly executed operation that was initiated and approved by a mid-level supervisor somewhere in the ATF. At some point, Holder undoubtedly found out about it, but it might very well have been too late to put the genie back in the bottle.

Once the story gained traction in the press, the White House probably knew about it, but nobody in any organization is going to release any information on something like this until they have all the facts themselves. I'm quite sure there were discussions about how to spin the story, but who wouldn't try to shed the best light on something like this?

The entirety of the Congressional investigation and hearings is entirely political. The republicans are masters of this game, going back nearly twenty years. They tied up the best president of the last 50 years, first with a completely unfounded financial investigation, and then with an investigation into a bj. Has anyone ever figured out why she didn't get that dress cleaned?

This is all political smoke and mirrors, nothing more. And as usual, the ignorant masses of the GOP are eating it up with a spoon.

Gbaby1, you should try and get the facts straight. Operation Fast and Furious happened during and with the approval of the Obama administration. It was hatched in October 2009. The Bush administration experimented with "gun-walking" twice before, on a very small scale and with notification to the Mexican government. Fast and Furious was a large scale operation and occurred without notifying the Mexican government.

Operation Wide Receiver, which happened under Bush, amounted to 200 guns being bought and only 12 of them making it into Mexico. There were BATF agents who were against gun-walking after that, because it didn't result in any high level arrests and also the guns being smuggled into Mexico.

Fast and Furious produced over 2000 guns being brought into Mexico and they were turning up at the scenes of murders and mass killings. Even though authorities knew this, they allowed it to continue. Mexican cartels were being supplied with some deadly weapons, like .50 caliber rifles, which were used by cartels to shoot at Mexican Federal Police helicopters. A rifle like that can easily bring down a helicopter.

US Border Patrol agent Brian Terry was killed in a firefight in which weapons from Fast and Furious were used. Jaime Zapata, an agent for ICE, was killed with a weapon from Fast and Furious. Hundreds of Mexicans have been killed with weapons from Fast and Furious.

Obama and Holder have told lies about this operation. Fast and Furious has nothing to do with the Bush administration. Operation Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious are two different operations altogether. This is Obama and Holders baby.

Mickey-1983943 "Roy Wilson, "Willing.Sniper, "I am not a crook" --- Obama Milhouse Nixon"...........No, I think you mean Richard Milhouse Nixon.".............."Not a big fan of facetiousness, are you?"...........It's not that. It's just that I believe in giving credit where credit is due."

Justice Anthony Kennedy noted "Executive privilege is an extraordinary assertion of power 'not to be lightly invoked.' United States v. Reynolds, 345 U.S. 1, 7 (1953).

I guess time will tell if Obama get's the same 'credit' that Nixon got, but I do have to wonder why Obama is so intent on hiding some documents just before an election.

I think I know where some of the problem with YOU PEOPLE is coming from.

You don't have the slightist clue as to what you are saying in this post.

First you said Congress has access to all intelligence information. That statement is a LIE. You would not know that you don't know what you are talking about because I suspect you never had a special clerance issued by the government. Intelligence data is compartmentialized and only a few people know what the data contains. Congress as a whole would NEVER be told what was in an intelligence report because THEY are not cleared. Congress leaks like a sieve.

You said the neighbors all knew that Valiere Plame worked for the CIA. That may be true but I also will guarantee that they did not know she was a SPY. Reveaing that a Cia employee is a SPY is a Federal crime and Chaney should have been investigated for leaking the information. The Justice department was Republican and did not pursue the problem.

I have a big problem with your claim that the Democrats were on board concerning declaring war on Iraq.

That statement is not true because the Bush administration kept the actual intellagency data away from Congress.

I am not questioning your wisdom or intelligence I just think your data and analysis is wrong.

Normally, 'Executive Privilege' only applies to communications directly with the White House, so is Obama admitting that he was directly involved with the 'Fast and Furious' debacle?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Dandy416

If Bush was never held in contempt for lying about WMD's,

AH YES, 2012, THE ELECTION OF TRUTH!

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9,
1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- -Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

justoneguy-

Yeah, and the only thing that bush's adventure in Iraq proved is that the UN sanctions and steps that the Clinton administration had taken worked- Saddam dismantled his WMD program.

bush knew the intel- he knew there weren't any WMD's to be found, and he pushed to go in anyway.

No one is saying the threat never existed. We're just saying that it had ceased to exist before we invaded Iraq. And bush knew it.

Cheney's Halliburton stock sure went up though.

Sure, lets just ignore the fact that Arizona is supplying Mexican cartels with thousands of guns. Red State Arizona; the poster child of what years of Republican rule does to a State.

The USA loses thousands of military persons and the Right wing says bravo, we lose one Border Patrol agent and it's a National crisis.

Look at all the little piggies, living piggy lives...snort snort.

Exactly, drainbramage. There is no shortage of kooks with guns here in AZ. Terry would have been killed at the same time by the same person using a gun bought from someone else, even if the ATF hadn't been around.

Any law enforcement death is a tragedy, but it was the cartels that were responsible, not Eric Holder.

Republicans using a dead hero for political gain. Shocking.

Mike from AZ

justoneguy-

No one is saying the threat never existed.

HA HA...great damage control Mike - the darn facts just have to keep re-writing history huh?

Mike from AZ; I had to move from the Phoenix valley down to Tucson, too crazy up there. Funny, Tucson is about 75% Latino/Hispanic/Central American, and yet I feel safer here than places like Mesa and South Phoenix.

All the quotes you listed were from 1998. The steps that Clinton took along with the UN sanctions worked. Period. Your guy fu*#$d up, there's no way around it. A lot can happen in three years. And it obviously did.

Here's what I said. The WMDs existed. Clinton and the UN eliminated the threat. bush didn't want to accept that the threat was gone, so he forced us into an unnecessary and very costly war.

THOSE are the facts.

drainbramage- I'm from LA, so Phoenix doesn't scare me.

Except Arpaio. He reminds me of that Gestapo major from Hogan's Heroes.

Carl Lafoon,

Nice attempt at acting like you know what you're talking about...but it is quite obvious that you don't. Here's a few real facts for you...though it's already obvious you lack the intellectual honesty to acknowledge them:

Fact: If Valerie Plame's neighbor's knew she was a CIA agent...it makes no difference if they knew she was a spy. REAL active covert operatives make it a point to make sure NOBODY knows that they work for the CIA. If it is known you work for the CIA...it kind of sorta makes you useless as a spy genius. Duh. If any foreign power knew you worked for the CIA...they would automatically assume you're a spy...which would negate ANY attempt at actually spying on them. This is basic logic. If Plame's neighbors knew she worked for the CIA...exactly how hard do you think it would be for ANYONE to find that out?

C'mon, use some critical thinking skills.

Fact: In regards to WMDs, actions that involve GOING TO WAR...of course Congress has access to the intelligence information. They kind of sorta HAVE TO!! And spare me the bs about security clearances huh? Considering at the very least that the members of the House and Senate Intelligence and Foreign Affairs committees have security clearances as high as any in the government (again, DUH, they kind of sorta have to!!)...they would have known what Bush and Cheney knew.

Again, please grow a brain sometime. And don't attempt to talk security clearances with me pal. Unless you've actually WORKED with intelligence agencies like I have...and it's obvious you haven't...you don't know jack squat.

And while you may not question my intelligence, I'm questioning yours...at least as far as your critical thinking skills go. You are attempting to claim something that is easily proven wrong on multiple counts and doesn't even stand up to basic logic or critical thinking.

Please give this ideological bs a break and join the real adults in the world.

Am I saying Bush and Cheney are angels? Hell no. I've got plenty to say about them...but this isn't about them. This is about the Obama administration attempting to use executive privilege to block a legal and legitimate Congressional investigation. It stinks to high heaven and anyone who doesn't see it is just another political ideologue.

I'm tired and thoroughly fed up with both parties AND their supporters. They'd all rather play the blame game and point fingers at each other instead of getting the job done.

I've seen more maturity in a group of 6 year olds than I see in the current political atmosphere.

I can't believe everyone is so hysterical about Obama invoking executive privileged like it is something unheard of. Bush invoked it 6 times; Clinton invoked it 14 times and Reagan invoked 3 times. This is Obama's only time so far.

One other point, it strikes me as extremely odd that Congress has the balls to hold anyone in contempt.

Wow, the Wizard of Wisdom! How's Harry Potter? And that guy from Oz, how's he doing?

"Don't attempt to talk security clearances with me, pal." Isn't that a line from Die Hard?

When exactly was it that you worked with intelligence agencies? Was that before or after your stint as an astronaut?

Wizard of Wisdom - Perhaps you should take you frustration and disdain elsewhere. I would have thought that the security background you claim to have would have taught you to keep your cool a little better. I guess being a security guard at the mall can be a real stress overload.

Mike from AZ,

The fact that you only have snide, insulting commentary and nothing in the way of counter-arguments only proves you have nothing intelligent to say.

Please come back when you actually have something to contribute to the discussion.

kimH,

Ah, I see you're just as intellectually challenged as Mike from AZ. Come back when you actually have something more substantive than insults.

As for my frustration...well it's kind of hard not to frustrated with the current political climate when all I see are two sets of children who would rather point fingers at each other and claim their side is better...when the truth of the matter is both sides are populated by a bunch of idiots.

Keep telling yourself otherwise if it helps you get through the day though.

it is not going anywhere; it is all political posturing; everyone knows it is a cover up by the white house, it is all about everyone beating g their chests.

kimH,

By the way, my security background comes from serving in the military and putting my life on the line for mindless little trolls like you...so kindly go pound sand. Better yet, keep your mouth shut until you've actually worked in such a position and actually know what you're talking about.

I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

I contribute what I choose to a discussion. Yours isn't a discussion, it's just regurgitation of the Fox News party line. The fact that you claim to be a veteran with an intelligence background doesn't impress me. I've got relatives that actually have served in several wars, and none of them would ever dream about beating their chests like you have on a public board like this.

Roger Clemens had to go to court for telling Congress that he didn't take steroids. Yet Holder lied to Congress several times and had dismissed the Oversight Committee. Really? When first asked about when he was aware of F&F, he said a few weeks. The next time he was asked, he said a couple of months. Documentation shows that he was aware of F&F since at least 2010. He threw out wild accusations about "Wide Receiver". DOJ had to retract the accusations. Documents that he claimed had correct information was found to be deliberately falsified. Holder has either denied or falsified facts time after time. BIG difference.

Executive privilege is reserved for areas of government covered by the Constitution. DOJ is not covered. It is reserved for the military, international relations, national defence and national security. It is (supposed to be) limited to conversations and memos between POTUS and his advisers in the WH. AG Eric Holder is neither.

Obama originally said that the WH had nothing to do with F&F. This invocation is an admission that it did. So why did Obama invoke this privilege so late in the game? Was it that he lied about not knowing of F&F and the documents regarding it? Was it because he lied about knowing about documents that supposedly didn't exist, or did he give the final approval for F&F? Was the purpose of F&F to be an excuse to limit or eradicate the 2nd Amendment?

The WH and DOJ brought this on themselves. All they had to do was hand over the paperwork, clear their name and move on. Instead Holder flicked off the Oversight Committee and Congress itself. Tell the truth, tell it early, and tell it yourself.

Simple as can be...this is pure politicking.

If the Republicans were interested in finding out the truth...they would have questioned any one of the Republicans in then Bush Administration (At least for background) that began this program under Bush.

THis is what we pay Congress to do, sit around and make the other side look bad? And that applies to BOTH parties.

Republicans are hypocrites, will this ruin Obama, unlikely because they have the biggest jerk corporate puppet that could possibly exist running against him.

George Bush is a convicted war criminal, sorry anyone defending that trash of a president has no business commenting on Obama. Bush gave the executive order to his top officials that they were not to speak to congress on his crimes which includes torture and manufacturing evidence.

Why is it okay to start wars, kill thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of muslims and you are worried about one federal agent and a few mexicans? Please loser republicans are the epitome of disgrace.

Moderator Tyler @ 1.106 - I see Feisty write worse things than that Every Day at least 20 times before breakfast.

FACT dude, and everybody knows it.

"Until now, everyone believed that the decisions regarding 'Fast and Furious' were confined to the Department of Justice. The White House decision to invoke executive privilege implies that White House officials were either involved in the 'Fast and Furious' operation or the cover-up that followed," said Boehner's press secretary Brendan Buck. "The administration has always insisted that wasn't the case. Were they lying, or are they now bending the law to hide the truth?"

And that nails it.

• BTW - Tyler is Fiesty and that is why "she" never gets disciplined.

I suppose the Republicans had to find something to do while in Washington since work is totally out of the question for them.

Let this indictment put every Liberal on notice: there is a bulls-eye on your forehead until such time as we can invent something the President has done wrong. We will not stop.

For all of the would be commentators on here that think they know what this is all about I'll give you the facts.

Jan. 27, 2011: Sen. Charles Grassley (R-Iowa), the ranking member of the Judiciary Committee, wrote a letter to ATF Acting Director Kenneth Melson that said: “Members of the Judiciary Committee have received numerous allegations that the ATF sanctioned the sale of hundreds of assault weapons to suspected straw purchasers, who then allegedly transported these weapons throughout the southwestern border area and into Mexico. According to these allegations, one of these individuals purchased three assault rifles with cash in Glendale, Arizona on January 16, 2010. Two of the weapons were then allegedly used in a firefight on December 14, 2010 against Customs and Border Protection (CBP) agents, killing CBP Agent Brian Terry.”

Grassley requested that the ATF brief his staff on the matter.

Jan. 31, 2011: Grassley wrote a second letter to Melson that says whistleblowers were being targeted in the agency. “This is exactly the wrong sort of reaction for the ATF. Rather than focusing on retaliating against whistleblowers, the ATF’s sole focus should be on findding and disclosing the truth as soon as possible.”

The Grassley letter continued, “As you may be aware, obstructing a Congressional investigation is a crime. Additionally, denying or interfering with employees’ rights to furnish information to Congress is also against the law. Federal officials who deny or interfere with employees’ rights to furnish information to Congress are not entitled to have their salaries paid by taxpayers’ dollars. Finally, ATF personnel have Constitutional rights to express their concerns to Congress under the First Amendment.”

Feb. 1, 2011: In a story headlined, “Claims tie ATF sting to guns in shootout,” The Arizona Republic reported on Grassley’s pending investigation and on the whistleblower’s allegations. Other media, such as The Washington Post and the Los Angeles Times reported on this in the following days.

Feb. 4, 2011: Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich wrote Grassley denying that the Justice Department knowingly “sanctioned” the sale of guns to people they believed were going to deliver them to Mexican drug cartels.

“At the outset, the allegation described in your January 27 letter--that ATF ‘sanctioned’ or otherwise knowingly allowed the sale of assault weapons to a straw purchaser who then transported them to Mexico--is false,” Weich wrote. “ATF makes every effort to interdict weapons that have been purchased illegally and prevent their transportation to Mexico.”

Feb. 15, 2011: Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agent Jaime Zapata is murdered in Mexico. The Associated Press later reported (on Feb. 28), based on an unnamed source, that the weapon used to kill Zapata “was shipped through Laredo with the possible knowledge of the ATF.” The story continued that “the feds were already investigating the suspects when the gun was sent to Mexico.” The matter was separate from Operation Fast and Furious, but was under the same umbrella as part of the larger Project Gunrunner.

This is why Holder is going to be held in contempt of Congress. The House Oversight and Government Reform Committee wants to know why the DOJ lied to Grassley and the Senate Judiciary Committee. I would think that anyone, regardless of their party affiliation or ideology, would want to know the truth in light of two US citizens being killed by weapons that were purchased and given to narco terrorists as part of the Fast and Furious operation.

I know most of you think that Fox is biased and MSNBC is fair, but how are Contempt of Congress charges reported on MSNBC?

1. A Democrat charged by a Republican controlled committee: House Republicans vote to cite Holder for contempt

2. A Republican charged by a Democratic controlled committee: Rove could be held in contempt of Congress, House committee recommends

@ NY Pride....

Feisty wasn't first to post because she was out using the men's room when this story popped up.

svenolafson,

"This is why Holder is going to be held in contempt of Congress"

If he is held in contempt of Congress it will only be when it comes before the full Congress for a vote. If that happens, how much do you want to bet it will be a partisan vote?

It was not very much different when VP Dick Cheney invoked executive privileges during Enron and the secret Energy deal.

Enron and executive privilege

January 30, 2002

It is now virtually certain there will be a constitutional showdown over the Bush administration's insistence on keeping secret what went on at Vice President Dick Cheney's meetings with Enron officials.

This is unfortunate--and it is puzzling.

The Bush administration is picking an odd--and for it, problematic--issue on which to draw such a line in the sand. Enron is now engulfed in scandal and bankruptcy; Bush and Cheney both have ties to the energy industry.

The vice president headed the White House's task force to formulate an energy plan. The administration has acknowledged that Cheney or his aides met with Enron executives in the months prior to the unveiling of its energy policy in May.

The General Accounting Office, which acts as the investigative arm of Congress, is now seeking more information about what went on at those meetings. Other than confirming the sessions took place, the administration is balking, claiming executive privilege. The GAO plans to take the Bush White House to court.

The administration insists it offered no improper assistance as Enron headed off a cliff last fall nor did Cheney do anything wrong in talking to Enron officials last spring as the Bush team's energy plan came together. Why it would choose to fuel this particular fire with a constitutional test of executive privilege when the available evidence appears to support its case is puzzling.

Do we really know all the players in that secret Energy deal yet? No? Then why would they want their shady past re-exposed? Don't think it won't be brought up by Democrats as well. People died from that fiasco as well. No electric during heatwaves, while technicians joked over the phone. How about the people that had heart attacks from losing their jobs and 401k's.

Rep. McCarthy (R)of Cal.said the Republicans had offered a great energy policy that creates jobs,and the Obama administration doesn't want to play. Remember Cheney saying to Democrats, when they asked who was involved,"It's none of their business". the Bush administration sent the GAO a lousy 77 pages of documents.

Eric holder has sent several thousand pages and it's still not enough. People, wise up, and see where the transparency really is.

bulletstopper,

Thank you for responding to my post. I did not say Feisty and Bev never attack other Newsviners. I was speaking solely from my own experience in reading their posts. I have never seen any attacks by them on other Newsviners. Feisty is just as her screen name implies, that is "Feisty", always ready for a fight. She is a very strongly partisan Democrat and very blunt and outspoken about it, something that offends many Republicans, although I can't understand why since many of them are just as outspoken about Democratic politicians, as you can see from this post and many others. How many insulting variations on our President's name have you seen here on Newsvine? But I have seen her posts mostly as being directed at Republican politicians and not at other Newsviners. Maybe, as you claim, there are such attacks, but I have not personally seen them. I daily see the most vicious attacks by one person against another, and, like you, I have had to ask myself how they manage to get away with it. I was once suspended myself for a day for posting something I did not consider at all a vicious attack, but the other person took it as such, reported it and convinced enough others to report it so that I was suspended. Tyler does not read every single post that goes on Newsvine. If he did, he would be a very busy man indeed. The way people get suspended is when others report a comment as "inflammatory", which is one of the menu options you get when you click that little exclamation mark to the right of a comment. If enough people report the comment as "inflammatory", Tyler takes a look at it to determine if it is "inflammatory" enough to warrant suspension. It's a matter of personal judgement on his part to a large extent, but anyone who is suspended has the right to appeal that suspension by sending an email. If Feisty has not been suspended, it is probably because not enough people have reported her comments as inflammatory or they were determined not to be inflammatory enough to warrant suspension. There are many truly vicious comments on Newsvine, but there are also many thin skinned people on this blog who take offense at remarks that were not really intended to be offensive. The judgement as to what is offensive is largely in the mind of the individual.

demmie,

It was not very much different when VP Dick Cheney invoked executive privileges during Enron and the secret Energy deal.

Other than two law enforcement agents and countless Mexicans being killed. Yep, pretty much the same.

Who said this?;

"Part of the role of the attorney general is to say to the executive branch, "Here are the limits of your power. Here are the things that you can't do." I don't think ______— ______— ever told the president that there was something he could not do. What you get a sense of is an attorney general who saw himself as enabler of the administration as opposed to somebody who was actually, uh, tryin' to look out for the American people's interests. Uh, and for that reason, I think it's time for him to step down and -- and for another attorney general who can exercise some independence to be, uh, put for the remainder of this president's term.

Hopefully the uhs don't give it away.

Yeah, lots of differences but hey, let's compare broccoli to volkswagons here. No one mentions a very important fact here; aside from two dead Americans, how many Mexicans have been killed? Not one person defending this failed 'sting' has shown a bit of concern over 3,400 guns being allowed into Mexico illegally, guns that were never tracked or monitored by the ATF.

Additionally, the ATF told gun dealers who PERSONALLY CALLED THE ATF about suspicious and illegal sales to go ahead and break the law and sell those guns to crimimals.

The other salient fact that gets lost in the conversation is that the Mexican authorities were NEVER INFORMED about the smuggling operation. In essence a department of the United States Federal Government engaged in smuggling guns illegally into Mexico.

First of all this is America and the reason the 1 agent killed is mentioned over the Mexican death is because our Congress can not prosecute the administration for deaths to non-Americans but once the first American dies it becomes our business by law. This is where you have to realize that America owes it's own citizens before someone else's citizens, or at least that is how it should be.

I am old enough to remember "Water Gate". It started subtle as well. This one to me is more serious because an agent is dead. There were no death's with Nixon's Water Gate. I hope that there is a Woodward and Bernstein for this case. I would be sad if Obama gets away with more harm than what Nixon did. It should not matter whether you are a Democrat or Republican, justice should be mighted Equally!

Wiz - You mean I'm not allowed to talk till I join the military?

all so exciting, isn' it?

so much time and money spent on this while the DOJ has offered to hand over more information than by law they have to and still the right is not satisfied...

seems the right is just looking for another distraction from what is going on in the real scope of things...like the fact that the right are voting down help to women, the poor and offering no movement or support on the issue of jobs...

this is an issue that definately needs attention just not the amount is it getting...........this matter can and should be resolved within the committee and under less confrontational terms. When the DOJ is cooperating beyond the scope of their requirements and law why all the muscle?..........screaming we want more and being legal qualified to be privy to the information are too different things.

This is just a tactic to get folks to look away from what ISN'T being done by the right....

so how many people have the republicans secured jobs for or passed legislation for aid to help secure jobs for in the last 3 years............oh, lets see...............oh, yeah..........NONE.

But the uber rich did get their tax cuts............guess there is that....

republicans are so grateful to the working Americans who care more about posture and divisiveness and the uber rich getting their tax cuts than about their own important and urgent needs...

jees, how stupid does this have to get before working Americans say..."hey, wait a minute...I need a tax cut too...I don't think we should cut programs that help my family and others so the rich can have the tax cuts I'm not getting and I am not happy about putting he rich tax cuts on the nations already maxed out credit card..................oh, yeah....and I am not happy that the rich are not doing their share to pay off our deficit...after all they are the ones who have profited from the mess while the rest of us have been hurt and are encumbered with paying for it all...

we didn't cause it, we don't profit from it, we are harmed because of it and we end up paying to fix it..and the rich do what?....the rich are unaffected, they profit from it, they caused it and they are not paying for it..............yep...that is what I call a class warfare chasm.....I AM NOT HAPPY"

Dear Debbie,

Help me understand something.

Holder says "I only found out about F&F a couple of weeks ago."

When presented with documents showing he knew months prior, Holder says, "I must have forgot, you got me there."

Now Jay Carney says, "This Attorney General shutdown the practice of gun walking from the previous administration."

• So Holder shut down an operation before he knew about it? Really?

Except Holder retracted the statement that the Bush Administration had any part in F&F.

All this time they have been saying the White House was not a part of F&F.

So why did Obama exert Executive Priv? He was either not in on it or he was in on it. Can't have it both ways.

Obama is counting on Democrats being so loyal and even a little stupid to understand this not so subtle distinction.

Not sure how you can defend thousands of deaths at the hands of a stupid operation. You realize that Mexico has more deaths in the last decade from drug cartels than US Soldier deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan. For all the harping by the left about humanity and war atrocities, you are defending this wretched plan to run guns into Mexico. This amazes me. Help me understand that.

On another note, did any one hear Jay Carney getting laughed at by the WH Press Core when he dared suggest that the F&F Executive Priv was "a matter of principle." They laughed out loud! Even the lefties in the media couldn't handle that lie.

Romney in a landslide.

One more thing Debbie,

You wrote:

jees, how stupid does this have to get before working Americans say..."hey, wait a minute...I need a tax cut too...I don't think we should cut programs that help my family and others so the rich can have the tax cuts I'm not getting and I am not happy about putting he rich tax cuts on the nations already maxed out credit card...............

Since half of Americans pay no tax would it not seem that they have received the ultimate tax cut already. You would have them cross to the other side of zero? Does that make sense to you? Oh wait! I get it, you want to give the working middle class welfare too, is that it?

That dog won't hunt.

BTW - I am a working American. I am a small business owner too. You want to know how much I paid in taxes last year to the Feds? 18.3% after all my legal deductions, same ones Obama took on his taxes mind you. Me and the IRS squared up for over $35,000 last year. You want me to send you $5k too? Well I would demand you earn it. We have litter on the sides of the road I would like to see picked up. I know where there are some older people who need their house painted and some repairs around their house, you up for that? Maybe you could help tutor some children. No?

Well guess what, Debbie, I volunteer to do all those things already.

Stop your lazy ass class warfare.

Rational American: Good points. Isn't it amazing how those who demand that 'rich people be taxed more' never seem to realize that rich people ARE taxed more. I liked your asking Debbie what she/he does to help out, odds are that there is nothing of tangible, personal effort to help coming from those who demand that the government take and redistribute.

What is painfully apparent is that the left is the personification of hypocrisy and doublespeak. Not one democrat expressing any concern over murdered Mexicans or federal agents. Now, had this been a republican president rather than Obama they would be marching in the streets DEMANDING justice. As it is all they want to do is bury the entire story, sweep it under the carpet. Fortunately, Obama's little executive privilege opened a large can of worms and only fueled the fires of speculation. Democrats/liberals won't take the time to understand the issues, they are too busy making excuses for the administration. They are playing the last card in the deck, the race card, and as you stated in your post, that dog won't hunt.

Doubt too many understand the phrase so, in translation, it means that lies, lies and coverups aren't going to be explained away by playing the race card.

BS RDH. Spare us all your fake crocodile tears for this agent. You could care less about him or his family. He's just a tool you can use to spout more of your fake BS. I don't recall seeing you here with your panties all in a twist about all the "murdered" Americans in Iraq. Oh wait, that doesn't fit into your BS melodrama so their deaths are just peachy with you.

hmm, maybe the comparison should be lying to Americans about weapons of mass destruction and then sending 5000 Americans to die in Iraq. Or maybe the blackmailing and release of a CIA agents identity. Or the use of executive privledge to hide the fact that the VP did it. Or is it just the lie that anyone found guilty of being involved would be fired from the Bush White House. I wonder.

Amazing how people try to change the subject when the obvious is pointed out about their beloved president, both current and past. If there was nothing in these documents to incriminate the current president, he would not have opted for executive privilege to hide them.

@RDH No, we just send drones....wack who ever is around, or just start a war on false pretenses and lies, commit war crimes....get your head out of your ass

If a poll were taken today I think Jimmy Carter would be replaced by Barry Obama as the worst President in modern history!

Fast and Furious coverup / multiple White House national security leaks! / "the private sector is doing just fine"

All this in just a few weeks... there is not enough space or time to list Barry's 'errors' for his entire term!

Amazing how people try to change the subject when the obvious is pointed out about their beloved president, both current and past.

Ain't it, though? It tells me they don't have a pot to piss in.

If there was nothing in these documents to incriminate the current president, he would not have opted for executive privilege to hide them.

Agree. Politicians need to be held accountable. On both sides.

@Dotties girl,

Get your facts straights because had Nixon not gotten caught he would not have resigned. The cover-up and story ultimately let former President Nixon to resigned in Aug. 1974. Because remember he clearly denied any doings in the water gate scandal claiming his innocence saying "I am not a crook". In July 1974 this whole thing went to the supreme court where they order 64 tapes of the White House conversations, and not too long after he was impeached. So don't act like Nixon was a hero he did his dirt and tried his damn-est to still run the country because he thought he could get away with it. No, he didn't leave willingly the House forced his crooked a** out, he didn't have a choice in the matter. If you're going to tell it, tell the story how it really went. OBAMA 2013!!!

If a poll were taken today I think Jimmy Carter would be replaced by Barry Obama as the worst President in modern history!

Jimmy Carter was only inept. Obama is both inept and also corrupt, as we are finding out now with F&F and also the White House security leaks!

George hayduke sr, inept and corrupt - you must be talking about both georges now, cause they are both the most inept and corrupt politians I know of with reagon coming in right behind them carrying dick cheney on a stick.

@Shellie-657180,

I don't recall seeing you here with your panties all in a twist about all the "murdered" Americans in Iraq.

But wait, let's not forget who sent all the murdered Americans to Iraq. Certainly you're not suggesting our president now did it. So since there has been American blood shed in Iraq it was done all on the former president watchful eye. Remember the quest for WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, that we never found by the way. Looks like there's egg in your face as well. But now, how soon we forget who started getting as many of our troops out of Iraq as soon as possible. Oh yeah that doesn't count, because the fact that our president wasn't able to clean up the mess that Bush left fast enough is all that matters. Get out of here with that BS, place the blame where it really belong because senseless murders of Americans in Iraq were taking place long before President Obama came alone. oops, bet you feel foolish now.

If this president has nothing to hide then he has no reason to invoke executive privilege plain and simple. Of course if this administration runs its normal course the truth will probably leak out as just about everything else does with this administration.

I love it when one libtard attacks another libtard ! It's really quite entertaining.

One other thing occurred before Bush took office .... the terminology "weapons of mass destruction" was used quite a few times by Bill CLinton and Madeleine Albright. But how can that be ?

Why would Obama block documents supposedly he hasn't seen? Unless he HAS seen them.

Makes Obama look guilty. Makes it look like he KNEW all along what was happening.

Robert-2302414, Well said. Apparently "executive privilege" equates to those caught with a "smoking gun in their hands" and stand on the 5th Amendment! lol

Finally some accountability.... This has gone on for a year and a half, and the games have come to a halt. It is about time the left AND the right be held accountable for their actions.

True justice can be served for the family of the border agent murdered..

What a waste of time. Where are the jobs?

Too bad they (the Republicans) can't work this fast in creating jobs or improving the economy... and maybe those wrongies out there who would like to see this bring Obama down just remember Reagan and the Iran Contra - selling weapons to a terrorist nation who had just released our hostages - just how "American" was that and why was he selling weapons to them again? or Nixon making a deal with Hanoi to exit the peace talks to keep the war going or how about Little Bush lying us into two wars? Aren’t “TREASONABLE OFFENCES”?

This is what the Republicans do best - spend millions and billions trying to drum something up and blame other people...maybe the Dems should start to impeach, indict and imprison these republicans for breaking the law instead of just letting their wrongdoings go UNPUNISHED!!! Just when are the Dems going to learn that you can’t play fair with Repubs who spend their lives cheating!!

@manns1963

Kinda reminds me of one fool who said, "Ah did Nawt Hay-ev sex with thot woman!'' as he pointed his finger in defiance. Besides, Nixon's greatest crime was "pissin off the press" before Watergate ever went down. That's always been a cardinal sin in politics....

Scott, the dems aren't knowledgeable about government to impeach anyone....let alone make it stick...

hmm, maybe the comparison should be lying to Americans about weapons of mass destruction and then sending 5000 Americans to die in Iraq. Are you talking about Bush? Or when Bill Clinton, John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, Joe Liberman, ect, ect.... You do know the difference between lying and just being wrong about what you thought was true. Bush only lied if he knew Iraq had no WMD, and why would he think that since everyone including his Democrat colleagues thought it was true.

Or maybe the blackmailing and release of a CIA agents identity. What Blackmailing? Any evidence to back that claim up? No, didn't think so. You do know Richard Armitage was the leaker. Not a quess, he admitted it, and Robert Novak confirmed it. He didn't get in any trouble because IT WAS NOT A CRIME! She hadn't been covert for years and leaking her name meant nothing but was a fun tool for dems to use against their opponents.

Or the use of executive privledge to hide the fact that the VP did it. Again, Richard Armitage ADMITTED he leaked the name because he was not aware she had ever been covert or that he was "leaking" anything.

Or is it just the lie that anyone found guilty of being involved would be fired from the Bush White House. I wonder. Good attempt at deflecting to bad it's all crap.

ScottW430,

The republicans in congress have passed jobs bills just like they were voted to do in 2010. The problem is that the President and Harry Reid oppose them. Remember what President Obama said after he was elected?

Elections have consequences.

I guess it only counts when he was elected...

So what they are saying is Obama is guilty of continuing another Bush policy? Than isn't Bush guilty as well?

I don't get the crazy commotion? It was a black ops that went bad? Pin the tail on the donkey time?

Fisting Redhead and Beverly and Seeking Sanity...WHERE ARE YOU? Tell us again how Holder has Issa backed into a corner HAAAAHAAAA! Looks like Huey and Luey are going down in flames. Have a great day..we are!

The primary reason for Holder and Obama stonewalling is that the true agenda of "Fast & Furious" would be revealed, which is to enact onerous gun control restrictions, not to mention some of what was done was illegal. Obama attempts to portray himself as someone that has no intention of enacting such draconian gun restrictions but consider the following:

During a White House meeting with the Brady's, President Obama dropped in and, according to Sarah Brady, brought up the issue of gun control, "to fill us in that it was very much on his agenda," she said.
"I just want you to know that we are working on it," Brady recalled the president telling them. "We have to go through a few processes, but under the radar."

An article in the Huffington Post describes how the administration is exploring ways to bypass Congress and enact gun control through executive action.
The Department of Justice reportedly is holding meetings discussing the White House's options for enacting regulations on its own or through adjoining agencies and departments. "Administration officials said talk of executive orders or agency action are among a host of options that President Barack Obama and his advisers are considering."
Obama is a snake in the grass that needs to be confronted on every issue. He must be driven from office in November.

How many weapons did we sell to Afghanistan that are currently being used against our soldiers. Our brothers and sister, fathers and daughter, mothers and uncles?

Ok
Maybe we should open this can!

manns1963 asks dottiesgirl to get her facts straight and then states Nixon was impeached in the same post. Nixon resigned before impeachment was brought. Not that he wouldn't have been impeached, but he didn't want to put the country through the whole circus procedure hence the resignation. But to the point, he was not impeached. Hello pot, meet kettle.

Come on you republicans.

With all the money you have, and still are so afraid that have to opt for

distraction? Shame on you. You want the power no matter how don't you?

all of the people involved in (FF) should be suspended without pay, pension revoked, held accountable in court & there should be a civil suite brought against anybody involved before (OBOMA) to now. ( ERIC HOLDER) should resign.

What a bunch of idiots. The country is on it's ass because of the Republican House sending bills to the Senate with Poison Pills and all they want to do is this kind of stuff.

I and most of the nation are fed up with the House of Representitives being dis-functional.

Jim Silver

If a poll were taken today I think Jimmy Carter would be replaced by Barry Obama as the worst President in modern history!

And you are basing this on what prey tell? Your fox news feed? Pretty sure Obama's predecessor would fair far worse.

Obama is toast.

Looks like the Loons are out in force today...

I wonder..... if you are spending so much time on this site reading every posting and responding with your little FOX bullet points and most of you have been doing this all day, day after day, month after month…. Just what kind of a job do you have that allows you this much freedom or are you just one of those who are UNEMPLOYED and according to you I’m working my A$$ off to support these "freeloaders" who are spending their time playing on this site instead of looking for any job possible! or the other scenario (sorry to those Repubs for using such a large word) is that you're employed by the TPRNC to fill these threads with a diatribe of BS

The only reason Clinton, Leiberman, Kerry and the other Dems believed there were Weapons of Mass Destruction is because of the LIES they were told by Bush and Cheney. Remeber the congressional breifings that were given to Congress by the Bush administration? OH YEAH, those lies. That is why almost ALL members of Congress backed the Iraq war.

funster01,

"Remeber the congressional breifings that were given to Congress by the Bush administration?"

Yes, I remember those briefings. Those are the ones that caused General Colin Powell, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, to say later in his book that President Bush had made a fool of him. He was very angry at having had to participate in those briefings. He believed, for some strange reason, that he had been duped.

I'm agreeing with you Mickey... Don't chop my head off.. and he was duped. A lot of people were to include this soldier.

funkster01,

"I'm agreeing with you Mickey... Don't chop my head off.. and he was duped."

I wouldn't chop your head off. I was agreeing with you, too, and being a bit facetious by saying, "for some strange reason". I actually heard Colin Powell with my own ears on a TV interview say that President Bush had made a fool of him with that briefing. And sorry about misspelling your name the first time. I spelled it "funster".

Davey boy, perhaps you can enlighten us on just what you define a WMD to be? You know give us the class of weapon that defines it.

-----------------------------

Carl lafoon, You must have missed the results of the 2010 midterm elections. Even obama termed it as a "shellacking"

Interesting that you want to blame the republican controlled house of the past 1 1/2 years vs the democrat controlled senate since 2007 or the democratic controlled house from 2007-2010. Best reread the US Constitution, particularly the part saying that the senate can offer up amendments to whatever the house passes and vice a versa.

american,

"perhaps you can enlighten us on just what you define a WMD to be?"

That's easy. Weapons of mass destruction are those things they didn't find in Iraq after we invaded and were free to inspect all we wanted to. It was embarrassing to Bush, but true.

Loyalty. Now, they point fingers at Bush, and make excuses for Obama. When Obama acts WORSE than Bush, why, that's ok. Hypocrisy at its finest and double standards and double speak are the hallmarks of Obama supporters. If it were a republican doing the obstructing and lying they'd be all over the tale, however, it is Obama and his lapdog Holder so, of course, it is ok. Wonder how they would be feeling if they were a Mexican citizen, especially one whose loved one had been killed by one of these guns. Perhaps the Mexican government should be asking questions, serious questions.

At least now, the 'don't need no stinkin' congress Dream Act' makes sense. Appeasement and blood money.

Carl Lafoon
What a bunch of idiots. The country is on it's ass because of the Republican House sending bills to the Senate with Poison Pills...

Since he keeps sitting on them Harry Reid must think that they are suppositories.

Well, look at the bright side, at least Fox News has a new talking point. The constant droning on about Solyndra and the GSA was getting old.

francisala - Best revise who has the money, the obama campaign has already raised over $200 MILLION for his re-election. Something tells me that romney isn't even close.

Yes I am not counting either sides super PAC's.

Just a reminder , in 2008 obama outspent mccain by nearly 2 to 1 by raising $3/4 BILLION. Heck , obama even vastly outspent his republican opponent when he won the US senate seat in 2004 something to the tune of $14.2 million vs $2.5 million by his opponent alan keyes.

http://www.cfinst.org/books_reports/pdf/EAR_Table9-3.pdf

Since cfinst.org has no political ads on their homepages I would consider the data they present as being politically neutral.

LOL mickey, you didn't answer the question on what defines a WMD.

Neither does your statement about inspections for them in not finding them. You must have forgotten all the roadblocks that saddam used to delay/refuse the international inspection schedules.

So mickey, what defines a WMD?

american,

"Neither does your statement about inspections for them not finding them. You must have forgotten all the roadblocks that saddam used to delay the inspection schedules.

So mickey, what defines a WMD?"

I think Saddam was pretty much out of the way as far as delaying inspection schedules is concerned after we invaded Iraq. As for what constitutes WMD's, a lot of things can be classified as WMD's, and the inspectors had a list of things they considered WMD's. It was well known that Saddam had used chemical weapons against the Kurds in the 1980's. But as far as the pretext the Bush administration used for invading Iraq is concerned, I think it is pretty clear that what they were primarily driving at was that Iraq had or was close to having nuclear weapons, which was false.

starsailing

Repubs going after Eric Holder...Because is he stopping the voter suppression laws, especially in Florida. Nothing more ...nothing less. Republicans taking away your right to vote.

Absolutely.

You hit the nail right on the head.

In state senatorial and legislative chambers, the Republicans are stripping away the Constitutional right to vote for millions of our citizens. Their voter suppression targets are people of color, seniors, students, the in-firmed and the poor. By suppressing the electoral choices of many people, the GOP hopes to "snatch" another election. If the right wing is truly concerned about what is right, these reactionaries need to ponder the 2 wars that the country unnecessarily jumped in and left over 4,000 of our service women and men dead. Over "Fast and Furious," the GOP is grandstanding.

These reactionaries do not have any true loyalty to this country!

Dumbama, Holder, and Democrats are nothing but despicable LIARS.

If you are addressing me, I am retired.

Do any of you have knowledge of the nature of the requested documents? Didn't think so. You all look like a herd of Lemmings just following the leader over the cliff. Before supporting the efforts of a lying thief like Darrell Issa, look at the nature of his omnipotent requests: TRANSCRIPTS OF WIRETAPPED TELEPHONE CONVERSATIONS ARE NOT TO BE RELEASED UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TO ANY PUBLIC ENTITY (INCLUDING CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEES!) IN ACCORDANCE WITH FEDERAL LAW! DARRELL ISSA IS THE STUPID CRIMINAL HERE OR ARE YOU ALL TOO BUSY SPEWING REACTIVE HATE TO USE YOUR BRAINS IN THIS MATTER? Thought so, that's what egomaniacs like Darrell Issa are counting on: the fact that you are too stupid to ask the serious questions. Your tax dollars are playing partisan politics with you as the poor unknowing following fools...joke is all on you if you don't wake up.

I just wonder why republicans care more about the lives of Mexicans than they do about Americans. While they are trying to put more money to making bombs, they want to cut off assistance programs that feed Americans. The simple answer is they don't care about anyone but lining their pockets and getting Obama out of office, this is manufactured BS by the republicans. Anyone that can't see through this is probably too stupid to be breathing.

Mickey you are either stupid or a liar, either way there was no evidence of the WMD's That is a blatant lie, how is your hero's conviction on war crimes working for you? Please republicans are all greedy jerks owned by the Koch brothers. Thank you supreme court for selling our country to the highest bidders and thank you moron tea partiers for electing the pieces of garbage that sold us out. This nation is no longer a democracy, its owned and run by two oil brothers.

Fast and Furious is all Obama's. What Bush did was allow small batches of 30-50 handguns to "walk".

There were never more than 300 guns involved. The Mexican Government was coordinating with the US.

THE VERY FIRST TIME THE MEXICANS FAILED TO INTERCEPT THE GUNS, BUSH HALTED THE PROGRAM.

What Obama did was allow thousands - that we know of - of military grade assault rifles to "walk"

The Mexican Government was never told of the operation.

When gun store owners contacted the Feds about suspicous large purchases, they were told to let it happen, it was part of an investigation.

The administration then turned around and tried to blame US gun shops for the violence in Mexico.

When Agent Terry was killed, the administration scrambled to cover fast and furious up. It was only because two ATF agents blew the whistle that we even found out about it. The President's people then persecuted those two agents for standing up and telling the truth.

What Obama did was NOTHING like what Bush did. Read up on it, the information is available to you, if you are willing to seek the truth.

We also know that executive privilege covers communications involving the executive branch. This means that those documents being sought must involve communications between Obama and Holder.

Those are the facts. The following is conjecture:

Many believe that the plan was to create a gun crisis in order to get support for tougher gun laws, eventually leading to a repeal of the 2nd ammendment, and the signing of an anti gun treaty with the corrupt U.N.

Jan-21270,

"Mickey you are either stupid or a liar, either way there was no evidence of the WMD's That is a blatant lie, how is your hero's conviction on war crimes working for you?"

Pardon me? I think you have directed your remark to the wrong person. I never said there were WMD's. In fact, I said none were found. And I have no "heroes", I am not a member of the Tea Party, and I am not a Republican. I think you had better check again.

"When the President does it, that means that it's not illegal." ~ Richard M. Obama Nixon

'A Very Nixonian Mistake'...

'The operative question now is, what did the president know and when did he know it?'

Lets Face it !!!!!!

Anythings that has something to do the Supports of Weapon/ Arm Sale export- Its Always mirror back to GOP /NRA doing

Yup. It absolutely stinks. This adminstration has a complete disregard for the separation of powers and spits on the constitution like they have never seen it before. Obama claims to be Constitutional expert of some kind?? He does not even now the role of congress or the SC. When exactly did he stop taking those drugs?? We need this guy out!

Actually, we did learn something about Obama's sealed past through this ordeal. He campaigned as a Constitutional law professor and now we know he was actually an OCCASIONAL GUEST LECTURER. No professor. No attorney, both he and Michelle have lost their licenses to practice law years ago. HUH?

What I want to know is....when is "the Summer of Recovery 2010" gonna happen?

Further more, what is in his college thesis that he doesn't want us to see?

CoCo puff, you're wrong again...never attribute to unwariness that which can be simply explained by ignorance.

See, SNOPES and FACT CHECK, RE: Barak and Michelle Obama Law License.

Coco, Michelle nor Barrack "lost" their licenses. She changed hers to an inactive status and he changed his to a retired status. His not being a professor is also a stretch. While not on a track for tenure, he taught 3 classes per semester for several years, and is regarded by UC Law school to have been a professor. Might want to do a little fact checking before spewing misinformation like this.

Well folks here are the facts, also known to many as THE TRUTH. SNOPES is a husband and wife team of registered democats who often if not always provide 'facts ' that are made up to fit the current socialist talking points.

And funded in part by an anti-American fellow with a Greek background . His name is George Soros. Now those bits of TRUTH should help you decide to accept or not accept anything this two person page says about anything?

And isn't this move classic socialism and well within the MO of the socialist clod in the Oval Office? Day one he exercised EXECUTIVE PRIVELGE and 'sealed ' all papers which would reveal that he is not a citizen, possessed several Social Security numbers, misrepresented himself on the Selective Service registration, defeats any attempt to see his college work and has no idea (so it seems ) as to who his spe rm donor is.

And now when the need for that so called 'transparency' he touted is needed, he and his socialist thugs defy the authority of Congress, spit in the face of every American Citizen as they roll their socialist take over machine towards a complete destruction of OUR America.

He knows he is being evicted this November and he will do anything necessary to stop the inglorious defeat he and his minions face this November.

It is now time for all good men to come to the aid of their country. Or next year there will not be any 'country' and very few good men.

There are two reasons why a president can use executive power:

1. To keep private communications with the White House

2. Because the documents requested are illegal for the DOJ to release.

The documents Issa wants now are those that relate to the ongoing investigation concerning who was involved. Holder, during his own investigation, found 9 federal agents who were involved with illegalities. They were fired. Holder then stopped Fast and Furiois. However, there may be people involved who have not been brought to justice.

In fact, if you read the transcripts of the meeting between Holder and Issa, Holder was willing to bring in most of the documents. He wanted Issa to guarantee the documents would be safe with this committee. Issa then said- well, too bad, I am going for contempt.

Of course Issa wanted to do this all along. He wanted investigation after investigation until he found a crumb with which to wee wee up the media and the low information members of America's population.

President Obama, at the request of his Attorney General, issued the order rather than throw Holder under the bus.

Oh, and FYI, when witnesses wanted to speak to the beginning of this gun issues, Issa refused to hear their testimony. If he really was doing this for justice, he would want to know when all of this started.

What never ceases to amaze me is the reluctance of many to obtain the facts rather than rely on speculation and pundits. The uninformed and the non-critical thinkers are what will bring this country down. That and the blatant racism many do not even care to cover up.

But smile. Soon you will have something to hold your attention. Snookie's new TV show begins tomorrow.

The Obama Administration is spinning out of control.

WHAT DID THE WHITE HOUSE KNOW; AND WHEN DID THEY KNOW IT?

Obama and Holder are in deep legal and ethical trouble now.

I will say that regardless if Holder had knowledge or not of the Fast and Furious operation it doesn't matter he is the head of the Justice department and he needs to take full responsibility for its failure and for the death of a border agent. I don't think people should use this as a political issue like the house republicans using this to get there name out there. Holder should either resign or be fired. Sorry but its the right thing to do...

The Obamas have NO right to exercise any law representation in IL because they voluntary surrender their licenses and are not licensed anymore.

So, CoCo is right.

That still falls short of a reasonable definition of the phrase "lost their licenses". Oh wait, you guys seldom even visit reasonable.

@vwterry

Now I know the libs are against the ropes.....they're pulling out their "go to" responses in insulting others.....you folks are predictable.

Thank you, MSNBC, Tyler most assuredly had to go......I'll see if I can round you up some more libs! lol

As usual, the libs have a problem with commenting in a decent manner......they are to be pitied.

To all you giddy blood smelling trolls out there...get a life, job or Clue.

The pres. has had his hands busy with the G20. When Holders final investigation on all the details, and some heads Will role, Obama will be back and can see what is going on. The REPBNO's are on yet another witch hunt. Obama is still dealing with the Mess Bush left on his way out. The world suffered for that criminals actions. Hey but Cheney made a ton of cash along with Halliburton. (now that should have been before a committee) I am all for getting to the truth...but That includes going back and charging Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rummi for All the deaths in Iraq. BTW a few country's have warrants for war crimes on that Evil team. Obama came into office and said we will not look back..he should have started investigations of all of Bush's eight long reign of terror years. I am ashamed to say I WAS a long time Republican...not anymore. The cannibals that are the Repubs/Tea now are driving us Reagan Republicans away and eating alive the rest. Hate is a CANCER. Sad days for the USA & the world.

Texson,

You might gain a little credibility if you were to call out some on your side of the issue occasionally. Start with jim-1455434 and his repeated use of the term "libtard"

vwterry,

Why should he? The Left gets a LOT of mileage tarring any dissenting voice with the appelation "teabagger".

Perhaps there is something that needs to be kept secret for national security? I kind of doubt it. Holder agreed in principle to provide the requested documents, on the assurance they were the documents requested in the subpoena. Why wouldn't the GOP leadership of the oversight committee respond to that request? The subpoena was broad, a fishing expedition. Had holder provided additional documents above the 7,600 pages already provided up to date, the GOP would have simply claimed he didn't supply the fish they claim to exist.

I'd also like to point out, this is the FIRST time in almost 4 years that Obama has cited executive privilege. How many times did Bush do it?

He should because he was the one who pointed out the use of insults. And if insults are the problem it should not matter who made the insult or what party or ideology they come from, just the act of insulting. Otherwise it's just spouting dribble. As they used to say on Perry Mason, " goes to character your honor".

Best question was asked by Sen. Grassley: "Why would the administration cite executive privilege to protect documents they claim they've never seen?"

And you cannot even understand why? Think before you talk Grassley. Holder told Issa he would show him the documents but did not want them public so he showed them to the President because there is an ongoing investigation. 9 former people who worked on this Republican fiasco have already been fired and more will come later This is the old kill the AG because he is starting to prosecute wall street. Hepls Issa try to turn out the President like he did the governor of california and replace him with anothe ridiot like swartzwhatevr. we seen this withClinton California etc and it will not work this time.

Good point, breadex.

The republicans are well-versed in using congressional committees for political witch hunts.

If they hadn't used one on Clinton, Gore would have won the election in 2000 (wait a minute, he DID win), we wouldn't have had the Iraq war, this recession, the Tea Party, etc.

Wow, I sure hope Obama can hold them off. They'll drag us into the Dark Ages this time.

"And funded in part by an anti-American fellow with a Greek background . His name is George Soros. Now those bits of TRUTH should help you decide to accept or not accept anything this two person page says about anything?"

Josh Brogan, George Soros (pronounced 'Shorosh,' which is not a Greek name) is Hungarian-American. It seems everyone who doesn't think like you is "anti-American." So be it, I'll never put up the red, white and blue, not while we're still trying to dominate the world.

The entire republican party is owned by the Koch brothers, I don't want to even hear about Soros. Our supreme court sold our nation to the Koch brothers, I really hope all you republicans are happy being slaves to the oil men, because that is what your electing has made us into.

How about a bargain: GOP allows the Congress to pass legislation reinstating the assault weapon ban and repealing the exempton from background checks of sales of guns at gun shows in exchange the GOPs with sufficient security clearance get to read all the documents about ATFs gun walking (Fast and Furious and its predecessors).

breadex

Best question was asked by Sen. Grassley: "Why would the administration cite executive privilege to protect documents they claim they've never seen?"

Question was asked by Sen. Grassley: "Why would the administration cite executive privilege to protect documents they claim they've never seen?"

Can't Help ,Because it PRINTED with the name of George W.Bush And Dick Cheney on it..

@ common, appropriate handle, bush admin started this name 's been changed is all, to protect the guilty bush admin ...just maybe

Wow, Blame Bush... how original....

And, I'll bet Bush is perfectly willing to let every single document that was originated on his watch be public.... the Murderer-in-Chief... not so much

Has it occurred to anyone that maybe AG Holder is protecting the Bush administration? After all, and I am not BLAMING or POINTING FINGERS, it started with Bush.

Thank you Diane! That is what exactly is happening here. And yet the Republicans and their supporters continue to espouse this NONSENSE. It started under BUSH! I suspect that the Obama administration, like other past administrations which involved the opposite political party winning the White House, are trying to protect the previous administration....any of you on the right ever think about that?

Or are you so blinded by your hate of Obama, the first non-white President of the United States of America?

good grief idiot stop blaming bush because obama is an idiot that is all you freaking idiots say when obama screws something up again. And get your fact straight F&F did not begin under bush, it was a totally different program and different name. Holder and obama expanded on that prohram and created Fast and furious and walked thousands of guns into mexico BUSH was out of office so blame the idiot in th ewhite house. Why cant you people hold him accountable for his actions, bush is gone its been over three years since he was president this is ALL OBAMA what is wrong ith you peoppl ethat cant hold him responsible. It doesn't matter if its reoub or dem when they do wrong they are wrong and hold them accountable for it and obama has destroyed this country more tat it was when he took over thats all that matters, so he needs to goo and get someone that can turn it around befoore it iis too late and we collapse. And this is ALL obama and holder and its WRONG

@Diane-1871215

Now that IS a stretch.....not very original....but it took a lot of creative thought (even for a lib) to come up with that....

Fed Up-2683606

And, I'll bet Bush is perfectly willing to let every single document that was originated on his watch be public.... the Murderer-in-Chief... not so much

Until Obama sends our troops head first to their graves for his lies - Bush aptly owns that title.

Gun walking (fast and furious) has been illegal for 15 years. Bush used it in 2003, 2006 and in 2008.

Holder was never told by the head of the ATF it was going on. He stopped it and started his investigation of the ATF. He has to date turned over over 4,000 pages to the committee. It just Proves the Republican party is running scared and will stoop to ANY tactics to Avoid doing the job they were sent to do. Stop with the diversions AND get back to Fixing this mess YOU created. The American people are tired of the GOP/TEA's childish games. DO YOUR JOBS! BTW where are the jobs You promised in 2010????

The practice of Gun-walking originated under Bush.

Ray Jax...Yep blame bush, i imagine you will blame bush for your hemorrhoids too?...maybe bush started it maybe he didn't, but it was under the skunks watch that it went screwy...you never heard anything about it when W. was there, must have been better security then, not a bunch of flannel mouthed liberals all running around like chicken littles...

Do any of the right win nut jobs on this vine even know what executive privilege is or why we have a separation of powers? This president has invoked it once compared to George Bush's 6 invocations of executive privilege. I didn't like it when Bush used it but I'm a big boy and I understand that sometimes it may be a cover up but ultimately, Congress has its powers, the Executive branch has its own powers, and the Judicial Branch its powers. For what its worth, I believe that the initial lies communicated to Congress by the Justice Department regarding Fast and Furious justify a full court press but this is not a significant isuue in the grand scheme of things. It is obviously a tragedy that a Federal ATF agent may have been killed by one of these guns but only a fool would believe that his killers would not have been able to acquire guns elsewhere.

The NRA has been a sharp critic of Holder since he became head of DOJ. The group claims he is "anti-Second Amendment" for efforts like his push to reinstate the assault weapons ban and, more recently, to require border-state gun dealers to report bulk purchases of assault weapons. The Hill 6/20/12

If you are curious why this dust-up is continuing to occupy The House, here is your reason. Issa is sucking up to the NRA whicch wants to make sure unregulated bulk sales of assault rifles continue to remain private.

Really? An assault weaon sale would require submitting an application for transfer to the ATF, a background check and payment of a transfer fee. Repeat that for each weapon. Then wait several months until it is approved or rejected.

Define bulk weapon sale then explain how it would work given the above.

Absolutely. Well said.

Marie, I don't listen to or watch Limbaugh or Beck and I voted for Obama in "08. The Obama administration is by far the most corrupt we have had in decades.

Obama is a coward.

Marie...Bush is gone...get over it....nothing in the past excuses the actions of the present!!