E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
Darren Hauck / Reuters
Citizens wait in line to cast their vote in the recall election between Republican Gov. Scott Walker and Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett in Wauwatosa, Wis., June 5, 2012.
GREEN BAY, Wis. — An emotionally charged debate over fixing broken budgets and the rights of labor unions will reach a political apex on Tuesday, when Wisconsin voters decide the fate of Republican Gov. Scott Walker.
Wisconsinites are casting their ballots to decide whether to recall Walker and replace him with Democratic challenger Tom Barrett, the mayor of Milwaukee. The contest has assumed national significance, with stark battle lines drawn between reform-minded conservatives and organized labor, each of which has a great deal of political capital riding on the outcome of the election.
The recall, initiated by organized labor after Walker pushed a bill through his state legislature stripping public employee unions of their collective bargaining rights, was set to bring a degree of political closure to Wisconsin, but likely not heal the deep wounds opened by this battle some 15 months ago.
"Walker has divided this state so much — I know individual families who are divided," said Debra Kosloske, a union member and Barrett supporter. "Brothers and sisters won't talk to each other."
"We're moving in the right direction, and this recall is nothing more than unions grasping for the last vestige of power they can hold," said Dennis Clinard, a small business owner from western Wisconsin who's supporting Walker. "This recall's not about our state or economy; it's about a union power grab."
Tom Lynn / Getty Images
Gov. Scott Walker walks past media after he filled out his ballot at Jefferson School to vote in the gubernatorial recall election June 5, 2012 in Wauwatosa, Wis.
Walker and Barrett spent their final days of campaigning criss-crossing the Badger State to make their case to voters.
The governor, who was first elected in 2010 in an election that also pitted him versus Barrett, has essentially made the case that Wisconsin should move past the series of recalls — first against state senators, and then a state supreme court justice — that have plagued the state over the last year and a half.
"I think most people on this state want to move on. They're sick of all the attacks, all the commercials," Walker told reporters on Monday in West Salem. "You're not able to do that if my opponent's elected. It's the start of an ongoing, seemingly endless campaign of year-round elections."
Barrett has also made an appeal for unity in the state, asserting that his election would end the partisan bickering to have plagued Wisconsin since Walker's election.
The Daily Rundown's Chuck Todd takes a Deep Dive into the Wisconsin electorate ahead of Tuesday's gubernatorial recall election.
"Scott Walker has succeeded in dividing this state. He said he was going to divide and conquer," Barrett said Monday evening in Kenosha. "He's succeeded at dividing, and tomorrow, we will show this state, we will show this nation, that Scott Walker will never conquer the middle class of Wisconsin."
But the recall election here has taken on a measure of national significance, making it difficult for the candidates to isolate its impact to the state. While neither President Barack Obama nor presumptive GOP nominee Mitt Romney have campaigned in the state for their party's candidate, outside groups have spent tens of millions of dollars on candidate boosting.
Walker has been touted as the vanguard for a generation of conservative reformers who wish to enact major changes to programs and institutions traditionally favored by Democrats — changes, Republicans insist, that are essential to addressing future budget crises at the state and federal level.
Tom Lynn / Getty Images
Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett slides his ballot into the voting machine at the Milwaukee French Immersion School June 5, 2012 in Milwaukee.
For Democrats and labor, the election is no less than a test of their ability to stand up against such forceful reforms, especially in a state like Wisconsin, the birthplace of public employee unions and a state with a rich tradition of progressivism.
For those reasons, it's of little surprise that the recall election has stirred passions on both sides of the argument — passions that are unlikely to dim by Wednesday.
"I'd crawl over glass to vote for him," said Dave DeVetter, a Walker supporter, at the governor's rally Monday evening in Green Bay.
"He's done way too much damage," said Dianne Noreike, a Barrett voter who was protesting Walker's appearance at a brewery yesterday in Stevens Point. She was one of the thousands of protesters to converge on Madison in the winter of 2011, and has been active through the recall in seeking Walker's ouster.
With emotions running so high, conventional wisdom has suggested that there are few undecided voters remaining in Wisconsin. The election would then come down to voter turnout, and each side's ability to drive its base to the polls.
Democrats insist that a high-turnout election resembling the electorate in 2008, when a diverse group of voters went to the polls and broke in Obama's favor by a 13-point margin, would mean victory for Barrett on Tuesday.
Over 2.9 million voters went to the polls in Wisconsin in 2008; in the off-year 2010 elections, about 2.1 million Wisconsinites cast ballots, and many traditional Democratic constituencies stayed home.
"There's no doubt in my mind that this is going to be a tough, tight election. So what it really depends on is turnout," Walker said in Stevens Point.
While most public polling has indicated Walker has a slight advantage over Barrett, a close election could swing on high turnout. Democrats in the state believe a total turnout of over 2.3 million would benefit them.
Ruth Conniff of The Progressive Magazine, Molly Ball of The Atlantic, and NBC's Ron Mott discuss the Wisconsin recall election.
"We can't take for granted any of the polls that show us ahead," Walker said in Green Bay.
Walker has also sought to peel off votes from Democrats and independents who disagree with his collective bargaining reform, but feel that a recall of the governor is unwarranted.
"This whole recall thing is appalling to me," said Tori Rader, a Walker supporter, at the governor's Green Bay rally. "When you elect somebody, the only way you should be able to get them out of office is because of malfeasance. Not because you don't like what they did."
NBC's Alex Moe contributed to this report.
Leave a Comment:
In other words, "Elect me or we'll keep wasting public funds. Besides, I've already lost twice. It's my turn to be governor."
How many times do we have to elect Walker before the union minority takes its medicine? They don't represent the people...We get to vote for ourselves, remember?
Well said Dudelips22.....Walker first is a good man top to bottom and fiscally responsible to "ALL" the citizens of Wisconsin....It's a slam dunk for me, Walker vs. a Union goon that is having his speaches written for him by Axlerod...how discusting is that....one goon leading another goon
I will bet you wish you could do away with legitimate elections. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Rush....you forgot obama in the whitehouse.....
@ RushISaPIG; Just like a lib, when the going gets tough start insulting. You afraid your going to have some of your union bennys cut.
I still would like to know what the Democrats ideas are for balancing the budget in Wisconsin. Or is it just to increase taxes?
Joe M...
Bingo !
Signs of desperation.
Rushisapig
well put together post, filled with facts and thoughtful arguments.
What are you going to say when President Obama looses?
Once again MSNBC fails to fully state what Governor Walker enacted for dealing with the unions. The bargaining rights are still there, it is just for wages, not all benefits. The average worker can ask for a raise, but he or she cannot demand more money for pensions and more coverage for medical.
Also people have been saying that this is an attack against the middle income earners. They are the same group that has to pay higher taxes for these teachers and other state union workers.
No one knows since Barrett never came out with any plans, all he has been doing is attacking Walker on everything imaginable. Barrett even started a rumor that Walker is going to sell off public land to game farms and hunters will have to pay between 750 to 3k to go hunting.. Just shows how desperate he is.
RushISaPIG... I think you need to wake-up! You are stuck in the beginning of the wrong century, FFwrd 100 years. Unions are not necessary in 99% of the work force. Way to top heavy!!
Thinking outside of the $$$ GREED $$$ !!!
Organized Labor Union= Organized crime!
How low have the conservatives gone.
To elect a known criminal twice!
If he wins the office again, can he pardon himself?
This is absolutely a union power grab and I, for one, am tired of them playing the system this way when they do not get their way. When will they wake up and see that they are bankrupting states left and right. The states where Republican governors won are coming back as opposed to New York and California with liberal governors. This election should never have even taken place. Only eithical reasons should be considered to recall a governor duly elected by the people. These unions need to quit being so greedy and disruptive. They turn people away from their causes.
In california we are broke as to the public workers unions as well as teachers. No money for education. We have a dem as a Gov. now but he also is having to make the hard choices. We have over 12,000 retired State workers making over 100K plus benefits and NO money to pay. Every time a cut comes up all we see on the news are teachers, State workers and people facing welfare cuts protesting. the rest of us just have to pay for it all. Go Walker!!!!
toolmaker169
I FFwrded 100 years.
100 years ago, children where in labor camps. Today, Gingrich wants children doing labor.
100 years ago, lobbyists would flank the president, pressing for their interest group. None were lobbyists from labor. Today, Wisconsin has removed the voice of labor that defended its constituants.
100 years ago, there were no labor laws. Today, Wisconsin has already removed one labor law, Republicans are currently attacking right to choose, fair pay, and demanding labor seeks manager approval for healthcare.
All this while somebody somewhere claims we don't need unions, they have no purpose today because we have laws (even as Wisconsin gets rid of one of those laws).
We have laws because unions got us those laws. 40 hour work weeks, vacations, 8 hour shifts... Remove the unions, laws will be next. They go hand-in-hand.
Anyone can look at the wage gap and realize that as the union members decline, so does the middle class.
A vote for Walker is a vote for 100 years of labor rights to be killed.
Subnormal, and others should realize that the law enacted under Gov. Walker, removes the locally elected school boards authority to bargain and set guidelines for wage, benefits and work rules. The State legislature has taken control of a local governing body (school district) to establish their own labor contract, according to their own local established pay-rate and benefits for their employee's. This is contrary to conservative believe of "less State Government intrusion in local affairs", and is hidden from casual view by the "collective bargaining and State budget" issue many base their assumptions on.... Conservatives may have won the battle, but they have lost the war, as your school district is less effective at dealing with local work issue's. The State now mandates more of your local authority.
Why are all the Walker "supporters" here using the same language? Did they get it when they went into work today at Koch Industries?
Dudelips,
You are young and ignorant......There is so much this country OWES to unions, SS, Medicare, minimum wage, 5 day work week....Safe working conditions, and on and on and on.....Women's right to vote.
This is the GOP strategy of divide and conquer....Unions are what built the middle class in this country,, brought wages that would allow a father to work and the mother to stay home and raise the kids, brought safety to the work place...... Those talking points you listed are a bunch of GOP talking point propaganda crap......One thing is for sure young man, you don't remember the days before Unions...and voting for the likes of Scott Walker will get you that opportunity....
So many Americans are complete idiots.. When the Unions are completely gone so will be the Middle Class..........The charts already show that.......
Do some homework and you will see over the last 30 years as Union membership started going down, Middle Class wages went down on the same exact line......That's not a coincidence... The other line to look is the Corporate profit line, it's at 300% over the last 30 years while the Middle Class has FLAT LINED...... Corporations and the GOP are laughing their asses off at people like you......You have been Fooled !!!
What would you rather have 8 years of Bush's compassionate conservatism or Clinton's liberal economy?
Of course deep divisions remain....... The Community-Organizer / Aggitator-In-Chief has certainally done his part to polarize Americans..... Right out of his Saul Alinsky, Rules for Radicals handbook.
It's time for these school yard bully thugs (The Unions, The Libs, The Progressives, Obama, Axelrod, etc.) to go pound sand.
These parasites to society have done enough damage to our country with their bankrupting, anti-business, anti-capitialism, race baiting, class warfare, redistributive based policies.
Walker is going to prevail. Intelligence and common sense are going to lead the way in Wis. as well as nationwide in November when Obama is "recalled", back to Chicago.
If this recall works there will be another sooner than later and it will never end, elections will be meaningless.
Number one, the Schools need to be turned over to the states. The Feds have ruined the School system for many years.. Children have been losing for years. The budget has got to be put back in order and the Feds don't know how to do anything but create debt. They spend everyone's money as if it were just free. The Unions are out of control as well.
Walker is the only answer to what has to be done TODAY, and tomorrow. I see many people in Wisconsin don't have much information on the figures.. You need to realize just what Walker has done for your state. This needs to be done straight across the US.
States should be in control, get the Feds out of their business. Read the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and find out what has and is happening.
GO WALKER !!!
I hope the people of Wisconsin speak up and don't let the labor unions bully them into voting him out. Finally someone has the formula for success, which may or may not include ousting an antiquated and over inflated labor union. Unions may have had their place decades ago, but with job shortages and economic belt tightening, business's should be able to keep those working for them that are going above and beyond, not those that just do the job but expect pay raises regularly. The teachers union should be next. There are so many good teachers out there that deserve so much more that they are making, and there are crappy teachers out there who are making too much. But because of unions, there is no option to weed them out.
Go Wisconsin! Stand up to the bully labor unions! We can only hope this will start a ripple affect across the nation. I think people are finally waking up and being fed up with the load of crap they've been fed for the last few years. Time to regurgitate.
@weemee: People like you always point to some conspirator feeding information to the masses. How about this...we think for ourselves and we don't want people like you pushing your ideology on us. Common sense tells you that you can't keep spending the way Wisconsin has been giving away salaries and benefits to certain groups on the backs of the taxpayer. I hope Walker wins and makes union people contribute like those in the private sector.
It's simple we can not afford the unions and neither can California or Illinois.
it's not the unions doing the bullying here. most of the money involved is from big interest outside the state
Wow, I nearly wore out my "ignore" button. Whooooeee, so much ignorance and such short memories.
What happened in Wisconsin has nothing to do with balancing a budget or countering a "union power grab".
It has everything to do with cutting off traditional Democrat funding sources. Here in Oklahoma we are a right to work state, so the Unions have little power. Here the traditional Democrat funding source was the trial lawyers and they have been under assault for the last two years with legislation restricting the amount of jury awards in tort cases. They like to call it "tort reform" but it's actually the disenfranchisement of a large portion of the electorate. They are trying to cut off funding for Democrat candidates.
Walker bragged about it. It's a fact.
Union membership has been in decline for decades. They no longer wield the power or influence they did 50 years ago or this full scale frontal assault would have never succeeded.
You have all been lied to, brain-washed and you don't even know it.
We have one-party government here in Oklahoma and our part-time legislature has made a full-time mockery of the system.
Wake up America. Don't be fooled by the Koch brothers and Karl Rove. Your freedoms and your liberty are being eroded by the 2% while the 98% pay the tab.
Bosslimo... We have laws because unions got us those laws. 40 hour work weeks, vacations, 8 hour shifts... Remove the unions, laws will be next. They go hand-in-hand.
Maybe you and your unions should have stopped there! But, no, they had to keep demanding more and more. How much does your union spend on lobbyists, campaign donations, negative political ads., etc.??
Show me videos of these union people "working".
DOT "workers" no longer hold a stop/slow sign, it is mounted on a pedestal on wheels. Is it too heavy to balance and spin?? UAW assembly lines no longer need skilled workers. However, it does take a genius/ rocket-scientist to repair one of these now. Thanks! You made your job so much easier and everyone else has to pick up the slack.
Btw, I wasn't aware that Walker got rid of OSHA, EPA, etc.. When/how did he do that?? They are still alive in my manufacturing facility.
Skip, I live in Edmond..... You're right and it's very scary.........Forget about filing a lawsuit against a Doctor any longer....You can only win 250,000 no matter what damage the Doctor did and how much future expense you will have.....Trail lawyers cannot even take these type of cases any longer as it could cost more to litigate it then could be won......Better pick your doctor right in Oklahoma as you no longer have any right to sue a doctor for malpractice in this State......
I don't like living in a one Party state, and the tea party types have taken over and its extremism.....I will be selling and moving out of this state within the next couple of years......If you are a Democrat or even a moderate Republican, you have no voice in the state of Oklahoma....
Some of you are just being wwaaayyy over dramatic. According to some of you, this country owes it's entire existence to unions. Unions had a place in history and served a purpose many-many years ago when there was a need for protecting the average American working man (woman, person) from an undeveloped system. The union has trained you to become so dependent on them that this Walker situation has you freaked out. It will be OK. You can sit in the conference during the interview by yourself and negotiate your benefits and wages. I thought my 13 yr old step-daughter was dramatic....
PD
Wow, you live in the heart of GOP-berg. People in other states have no idea what it is like to live in a one-party state where EVERY state-wide office is held by a Republican and the GOP control the House and Senate. The silly legislation that flows from our part-time legislature would be worth a few laughs if it didn't have such a diabolical purpose. Nothing less than the disenfranchisement of a large part of the population. It is tragic what is happening here and in the other states with a GOP majority.
If the GOP regains the White House this November I am taking my wife and my dogs and moving to Costa Rica. Beautiful country, your choice of mountains or beach property. Socialized medicine. Low cost of living. Because of the tourist trade it is "English friendly" and I believe we can live quite well on my paltry pension and Social Security.
Moving to another state won't really matter in the long run. The America you and I grew up in will no longer exist if men like Scott Walker and Karl Rove have their way. One by one the few remaining blue states, where reason and economic development thrive, will be absorbed into the big red one-party government of the US where the 98% are worked and taxed to pay for the privileged lifestyles of the 2% of the wealthiest Americans.
Without unions and a two-party system to protect the working man and woman we'll be at the mercy of the 2% and there is scant comfort in that.
Good luck, I'll have a cold Dos Equis waiting for you in Costa Rica.
We owe the unions??!! Yes- the unions were important 100 or so years ago- but I think that debt has been paid! The laws on the books will suffice today- we don't need the unions to enforce rules any longer. And Public Sector Unions have no place in society at all!
I hope and pray Walker is re-elected and this starts to filter through the rest of the states! Too long have the people been afraid to stand up to the unions. That day has come at last- and the PS unions will start to fade into the dustbin of history. Wisconsin has shown that if someone is elected actually does his/her job- things can be good for the state.
Are you listening California, Washington and NY???
Skip,
You are not going to believe this, but I have been telling my wife for the last 2 years we should move to Costa Rica !!! Even parts of Mexico are not to bad.....There are many places we could move and have a higher quality of life.......This is not the country I thought it would be in the 21st Century....We are going back to the 19th Century.....I will send you a friend request..... That is too funny.... Nice meeting another democrat, progressive in Oklahoma......I have a few friends who I play golf with who are Democrats, when we are at the golf course, in the club house we are totally out numbered, so we don't talk to much....not worth it....but when we get together we let loose and laugh about being endangered species in Oklahoma....
This is Wisconson's problem. If you don't turn out to vote, then you got no one to blame but yourselves.
PD
Yep, Costa Rica is a nice place. You can pick whether you want to live in the mountains with a cooler climate or on the beach. Cost of living is low. Government is stable. You can rent homes very reasonably. 1 year residency and you qualify for their healthcare system. Lots of US companies and businesses there. Lots of American fast food places, with a South American flare, just like the Paris McDonald's where you can get wine with your Big Mac or the Honolulu McDonald's where SPAM is on the menu (it's a delicacy I'm told in Hawaii). Foot Locker, Walmart, you'll feel right at home.
thturd, no it's not Wisconsin's problem. We all own this problem. Wisconsin is a microcosym of what's happening all over this country. Maybe you're fortunate to live in a state with a working two-party system so you don't realize the ramifications of one party dominance. It's very scary and totally unAmerican.
PDug 19 and Skip....
I feel your pain...I was a resident of that Godforsaken Conservative wasteland for 8 extremely long and painful years. In my 50+ years of travel to every corner of this great country...I have yet to experience a more intellectually deficient demographic! I would rather live with Druids on the surface of the moon than return to Oklahoma and its "backwoods" political culture. Progressive is not part of their vernacular...only regression back to the 19th century as you stated. That said...I wish Wisconsin luck...if that D-Bag Walker is not thrown to the curb...Wisconsin may well be the next Oklahoma!
Mucker87,
You are exactly right.....Wisconsin could be the next Oklahoma....The Dems still have somewhat control of the house and assembly, and maybe total control after tonight..... Dems have nothing in Oklahoma....Even our county commissioners and sheriff offices are run on a party system...I live in a county and my only government is ONE county commissioner who has total power over my district, roads, you name it.....The current commissioner is really bad, has a primary this month, but guess what I can't vote because I am a democrat....I have no choice in even trying to get another republican to run against the democrat in Nov.....which never has a chance.....I have no voice in this state, my vote does not count......Not a nice feeling.....
Skip,
Have you been to Costa Rica? I think I need to get my wife and take a trip.....I have seriously been thinking about selling everything and getting out of Oklahoma.....and moving overseas... I truly can't stand what is going on in this country.... I have done a lot of research and Costa Rica looks like a great place to go....for many reasons.... I have also thought about Australia, we have friends there....they also have universal healthcare, the cost of living would be higher....What do you think about Mexico...have you looked into Mexico? .I know there are many places that are Americanized and have cheap great Healthcare also.....
Okie land is full of hillbillies and inbreds, skip you fit any of that category? Income tax, vehicle registration fees that are outrageous and the worst roads in the entire country. SE is a pretty part but most of it are welfare counties because business has left due taxes and ignorance of the locals. Schools are the worst any where. So glad I got out of that hell hole and got back to god's country....Texas.
Pdug: I know how you feel. It is the same in NY. The governors here are so bad, and we can't even hope to get another democrat into office, much less a republican. It is not a nice feeling, when your state constantly goes into a democrat's hands in order to take care of NYC while the rest of the state ends up footing the bill. As a republican in this state, your vote means nothing.
Definetly not a nice feeling..........
Losing is something I'd have thought you liberals would have gotten used to by now. It's coming again in November.
Unhappy....you don't know how good you have it in NY...good roads...beautiful State Parks (I know...I'm there a lot!), great facilities, culture...all there because of PROGRESSIVE thinking! Oklahoma has none of that because of REGRESSIVE Conservative practices that have rendered that state a virtual wasteland that even homeless people reject! Get your head out of your a$$ before you choke on a turd! Obama/Biden 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wonder what the Wisconsin Labor Unions, and outside Labor Unions, workers are going to say after spending MILLIONS of their dues on this DEFEATED "frivolous" recall election instead of paying for their retirement Health Care and pension fund ?
Wait a minute, how much of the Labor Union dues are the Union Bosses getting paid for their recall election "work from behind their gold leaf inscribed desks" ?
RushISaPIG.....I certainly hope the moderator takes into account YOUR SCREAMING at other posters. Maybe a ban for a month ?
Anyone else notice the grammatical structure, word usage, and point groping of all these "right wing" boomrangs? They're all invariable spouting the same bullsh^t using the same 100 or so words. Frankie Luntz is running a piss poor correspondence school of republican fairytales.
pdug!! Have a nice life in Costa Rica!!! Send us a post card!!!
We should know by about seven p.m. CDT this evening. Tune in then.
I reckon the wisconsin folks will make their choice without my help.
Mac,
I was just thinking the same thing about the left wingnuts posting on here.
Nat011 "What would you rather have 8 years of Bush's compassionate conservatism or Clinton's liberal economy?"
Actually, I'd take either one over Obama.
Under Clinton, the economy (GDP) grew by 57% in 8 years (with a Republican Congress).
Under Bush, the economy grew by 44% over 8 years.
Under Obama, it has grown about 4% in 3 years.
Walker supporters:
old farts and young brain-deads with a bunker mentality unconcerned about the future for our children..... yeah, real good company ...... ay, yi, yi
PDug19 "Skip, Have you been to Costa Rica? I think I need to get my wife and take a trip.....I have seriously been thinking about selling everything and getting out of Oklahoma.....and moving overseas... I truly can't stand what is going on in this country.... I have done a lot of research and Costa Rica looks like a great place to go....for many reasons"
I've been in Costa Rica (rated #1 in the World for sustainable ecology) for 3 months this year, and will stay an additional 2+ more months. We stayed 5.5 months last year. It's really great - peaceful, laid back, beautiful scenery, healthy lifestyle and food (their average life expectancy is better than the USA), great beaches, friendly people - no conflicts, and very affordable - you can't find a better place.
Just stay away from the big cities ( like San Jose) - driving there will drive you crazy.
Rush - You make me laugh.
Skip and Pdug - Have fun in Costa Rica
Thanks Roy Wilson.......If you like the water and golf where would you recommend for a visit..?
Mucker you are so right......I live in the county, still have dirt and gravel roads.....After the new county commissioner that was elected in 2008, we now just have dirt roads......Has not put on shovel of gravel on our road for almost 4 years now.... When it snows, I get out my tractor and clear not just our 1200 ft driveway, but the road we live on because they don't have the equipment or man power......Have a 4000 sq ft house, barn, and 8 car garage and have 3rd world roads.....Did I mention we have no trash pick up, water, sewer, cable TV or Internet, we barely have a fire and police department...... Get TV from Directv and Wifi for internet..... Property tax is reasonable but you get nothing in return............. Would much rather pay a little more and get basics services and a paved road, hell, even gravel......This is conservatism at its best. Yep, like living in a 3rd world country..
Justtred you have few things wrong....Income tax is around 5 percent, and plans are to eliminate it all together.....Tags for vehicles are pretty cheap and several years ago citizens decided they no longer wanted state inspections for cars, so you can drive a piece of crap and not have anything to worry about.....
Mucker 87: It's pretty obvious you don't live in the state. No wonder everything to you looks good. Some of our roads in NY are down still, because of Hurricane Irene. And it took them YEARS to finally address the problems with the Tappanzee Bridge. By the way those state parks, that you consider to be so great; are in the districts of Republican candidates! So please take a minute to address that concern you have about taking your head out of..... since you know absolutely nothing about what's going on.
@Navy QMCS#1.51: You're likely reading right to left. Screwy comprehension.
Poor libies. June will go down as a bad, bad month for your hopeless cause. Walker wins, SCOTUS tosses out Obumercare, SCOTUS sides with AZ. on their immigration law. Too Bad, So Sad. Once November comes, Obumer will already be packing to move back to Chitgaco.
Walker and old Tea Bags need to go BYE BYE
Good for Walker -
It's about time that a public official clearly stated that he represents all voters and not just the Goonions.. which, incidentally, have No right to hold the taxpayers of WI, or any other state for that matter, hostage.
It's interesting to see how many of ALEC's "paid bloggers" immediately jumped on this blog in their futile attempt at mass damage control and to lamely purport the focus on the Democratic challenger already losing the election before the voting is even close to being finished. I recently watched a video of the ALEC right wing blogging team making a desperate sos to Brietbart.com and other conservative sources begging them to blog as many times as possible in favor of Scott Walker and his puppet masters(the koch bros) at ALEC because they were taking a beating on political blogs in general and they felt they were losing the battle. These are the same people who think "Citizens United" was a wonderful SC decision and fully support Scott Walkers plan to balance his states budget on the backs of the working middle class in Wisconsin. After all, this election isn't really about the tax payers and citizens of Wisconsin, it's really about ALEC and Citizens United making it completely legal for big multinational corporations to bribe and buy politicians at will to further the corporations profit and political agendas in our entire country. My gut feeling is the good citizens Wisconsin are way to intelligent to let corporate/political corruption ruin their fine state let alone the entire country.
Walker loses BIG TIME - read it!
skip Nicholson, Oklahoma City:
skip, you are paying attention. Walker said it, as well as the leader of the state senate, a guy named Fitzgerald. Fitzgerald was bragging to FOX about how they were going to marginalize the Democrat party by depriving them of their primary source of funds. Walker was videotaped saying to one of his billionaire accomplices he was going to make Wisconsin a "permanent red state" by a process of "divide and conquer".
Through gerrymandering, voter suppression of predominantly Democrat constituencies, and a vast financial advantage because of Republican donors aiming to buy politicians and install them in office. That's the Citizens United decision in action, folks. The 2010 election was influenced by enormous sums of corporate money that paid for an ocean of vicious attack ads, and the effect of big money on this election will be even more drastic.
All this corruption of big money was predicted by President Obama in his State of the Union speech a few days after the decision. While Justice Alito wasn't convinced then, I wonder if he's had a change of heart. It's quite obvious the SCOTUS has made a significant contribution to the disintegration of the American Dream.
With this election in Wisconsin, and the upcoming election in November, we will see vast sums of money being spent to buy the election and install Romney and pliable puppets on the down-ballot rolls. It's only going to get worse from here. +
Funny thing, though. None of these problems and dangerous possibilities ever get discussed on FOX. They have tens of millions of gullible Americans snookered into thinking it's news they're watching. Along with the gerrymandering, voter suppression, and big money, the FOX propaganda machine dispenses all the one-sided garbage they dispense, disguised as news. It's a wolf in sheep's clothing. All taken together, these things formulate a strategy the Republican party has devised and is carrying out to marginalize the Democratic Party, and hold the vast majority of political power in this country all to themselves. When are people going to catch on to this?
PDug19, you are suspended for a day for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.
dudelipse22,
"How many times do we have to elect Walker before the union minority takes its medicine? They don't represent the people...We get to vote for ourselves, remember?"
If I'm not mistaken voting is just what they are doing today. Now if Walker loses in this vote and is recalled, are you going to claim the vote was rigged? It seems to me he has succeeded in pissing a lot of people off; not just the unions, either.
You wouldn't have had the 57% Growth if the Republicans hadn't taken congress over in 1995.
What happened was Hilary's version of health was given an advanced look in 1994 and democratic favorablity took a huge dive. Gingrich and the republicans were swept into majorities in both in houses.
Remember, Clinton ran on a middle class tax cut, and after elected promptly applogized on his first budget that the numbers didn't work so there would be no tax cut.
After the ouster of Gingrich, the "conservatives" that took over started compromising with democrats including raising taxes. in 1998, 1999, and 2000. What happens to the economy is a recession when taxes are raised enough.
Walker is a lying, sneek, snake, vile, corrupt... I could go on and on. Don't be fooled, he will run your state into the ground and suck the middleclass dry. Look at he past offices he held. Don't just bury your heads, click google.. look into his past to see your future. It should open your eyes. He has already dont sneaky things during his stay. Don't vote for him unless you look at his past and you can agree with his dealings then as now.
@Skip. You should try living in Democratic controlled Maryland. Gerrymander their way so any Republican vote does not count. The districts are made up of no commonality or community. Want more taxes? Just pass the bill. More fees? No problem! Attempt to cut spending or even moderate increases? For get about it! The millionaire tax now is the $100000 tax. Next year they will come for the under $100000. And O'Malley is a presidential want to be. Spends more time as the Dem Governors Head. I am an independent but we are considering leaving after we retire. Too many taxes and no return for us.
We're heading in the wrong direction if Labor Unions have more power then our elected officials. Should we just hand the nation over to the now?
People who post Obumer rather than spelling his name, O'bama, ought to brush their teeth with shampoo, and gargle with dish soap. If the people who run the news vines see fit to put me under suspension for a day or week I am not sorry I posted this.
Unhappy....
On the contrary...I spend a great deal of time in YOUR great state of NY enjoying the Progressive amenities! You obviously don't travel much as your knowledge of even your own state is very limited. Remember...you don't know what you had until it's gone...and mark my words...Conservative leadership will make all things good disappear. Unhappy...get on your horse (or whatever 19th Century mode of transportation you use) and take a trip through the deep (Conservative) South and compare the aesthetics to your NY and you will very soon see why Progressive culture is far more desirable! BTW...Obama is going to kick Mitten's a$$ in November! Take it to the bank! LMFAO!
Unions are as important now as they were back in the 18th and 19th century. The 40 hour work week, over time, and the minimum wage, were all a result of union activity. OISHA is an indirect result of the unions. All these hard won victories cost some their lives. Walker would undo all the good Unions have done.
Like 40 hour work weeks? Like the minimum wage? Like over Time? Modern robber barons would like nothing better then to work their employees from dawn until dusk for a quarter a day. Vote for Walker and vote for miserable working conditions, low pay, and long hours with NO overtime.
The problem with public sector unions is the fact that they are paid by the taxpayers. Now, which group of taxpayers gets to 'bargain' with the unions? Nada. Typical union strongarm tactics abound in Wisonsin. Riddle me this, why are the unions fighting so hard? They see their gravytrain shrinking. FDR, the penultimate progressive, did away with public sector unions and he did so because, as he so rightly stated, the unions were the ones forcing and essentially, creating, legislation, not the other way around. If the unions were so good at what they did, why was the state going bancrupt supporting unsupportable union demands?
Also, why should unions be allowed to control who gets a job? Lots of union jobs are that, union jobs, no concern for the individual who doesn't want to join a union in order to even have a job.
Russell - You are absolutely right. It is scary to watch how Citizens United has allowed Walker to buy an election... and the fact that this will soon spread across the nation. Slowly our entire country will erode back to the times of robber barons, with Republicans cheering for this downfall.
Skip - The only problem with Costa Rica is that ROY WILSON lives there... and he is an ultra-conservative, extreme right-wing, die-hard tea party member. I worry that more of his kind will flock there, once they have converted America into a fascist theocracy with no middle class. Perhaps you can scare them away with claims that Costa Rica is a "socialist" area with their "evil" healthcare for all.
Okay, hold on a second; what exactly does collective bargaining rights have to do with the budget deficit??? I mean, yes it involves bargaining for pay raises and higher benefits are expensive, but why should a fiscal shortfall demand the cessation of the power of public unions??? If you look at this closely, this is the last stand of the unions. Over the past three decades, unions have shrunk due to anti-union policies. This is the last stand. We used to have a largely unionized workforce, and during that time we had immense prosperity. If you want to balance the damn budget, than raise taxes and cut spending. Cut salaries if you have to; the government officials ought to take the first bite. But don't attack the unions. They are the last hope of the middle class; if they go, we go as well.
Are you kidding me??? That law was made in the 1930s and sponsored by REPUBLICAN congressmen!!!! You should pay a person the hourly wage that most people pay in that area; want to pay a guy $10 an hour in an expensive suburb???? Why do you need to cut the federal workforce?? I mean, government workers contribute very little to our deficit. Pensions could be fixed, but why are you switching them to 401(k)s??? What is the good in that??? Pensions are much more stable and don't hurt people if the market goes down. I thought you Republicans thought that government jobs aren't actual jobs??? You Republicans have bastardized our system, and have taken down private sector unions. Why do you need to eliminate the public ones???
Are you kidding me??? You say that the unions hired hundreds of thousands of people to protest against an attack on collective bargaining rights??? You don't deal with unions by destroying them; you work with them. They are NOT bankrupting states left and right. You want to know what's bankrupting the states??? The ECONOMY. I believe a Democratic state known as Illinois created more jobs than Wisconsin. Wisconsin LOST tens of thousands of jobs last month. How the hell is that good??? And here in California, the economy is what is hurting. We were based off the housing market, and when that collapsed so did the rest of the state. You also want to know what is hurting California??? The freaking balanced budget amendment and Prop 13. Both limited the financial powers of the state by forcing them to balance their budgets every year (even during a recession) by any means possible and then limiting their options of doing so by via taxes. We can't even pass tax increases thanks to the bloody supermajority rule. These anti-tax and fiscally irresponsible laws are what's hurting this state; if we could simply invest in education and infrastructure and borrow the money, we could boost the economy and then pay off the deficits when the economy is better!!!
Are you kidding me??? What about the damn recall of Gray Davis in 2003??? Remember that??? Was that based on ethical reasons??? And you think unions are so greedy??? Wait till you see the corporations. They are going to pour over $1.8 billion into this campaign cycle to unseat the president. And you wanna know what will happen if they succeed??? We become a red nation, with high poverty rates, high inequality rates, a concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a few, and a plutocratic society. This is NOT what the Founding Fathers had in mind.
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
Main question is: Are Wisconsin citizens going to let all the outsideers in their state today determine how Wisconsin is governed? If the Democrats had any real influence in Wisconsin and were in the least accurate about Governor Walker they and the Unions wouldn't have to bus in outsiders to rant and protest instead of minding their own business in thier own states. Smacks of corruption and watch out for voter fraud.
Democrats in Oklahoma?!?! I thought i was the only one. Moved here (not exactly by choice) about 15 years ago. it was like moving to a foreign country. i spent most of that 15 years working in a factory where they could tell you at any time you had to work 72 hours this week. Got plans? Your kid's b-day? Too bad. Work or get fired. Terrible working conditions, terrible bosses, complain and you're on the short list and fired for any minor infraction of the rules that just compiled year after year. They used the 'economic meltdown' as an excuse to freeze wages for three years, even when the company was only affected for about six months. But mention a union, the local redneck response was always the same: "I ain't gonna pay no f***in' dues" The local population is so ignorant, they shoot themselves in the foot every single election and then pat themselves on the back for electing which ever Republican could convince them he/she was the most religious. And let's put a lot of the blame right there: religion. I remember the Bush/Kerry election, one of my coworkers telling me he was voting for Bush because of Bush's stand against stem cell research. Really? A thirty-something factory worker, and your most important issue is whether or not some fertilized embryos that are never going to be made into babies are destroyed while trying to find cures for debilitating diseases? I lost that job recently, i'm back in school and can't wait to put this cesspool of a state behind me.
John Doe,
"We're heading in the wrong direction if Labor Unions have more power then our elected officials. Should we just hand the nation over to the now?"
Where have you been? Labor unions have been on the losing side for some time now. They have less power now than at any previous time in this country. Could it be that you just want to see them destroyed altogether?
All this nonsense from the right-wing zealots about unions being organized crime, un-American and hurting the economy is outrageous. A group of Americans have the right to organize for political reasons. If you don't believe this then we should go after religions and churches for doing the same thing. They are political action groups that pay NO taxes and hurt the economy. Of course that is just as ridiculous as attacking workers that form a union. Stop the radical rhetoric about unions, if they need reform so be it but stop attacking working class people just trying to negotiate with billionaire owned and run corporations. Without unions we would still have 12 year olds working in factories and 80 hour work weeks. Essentially without the work of unions we would be like China. I've never personally been in a union but I strongly support their Constitutional right to organize for political reasons. If a union is corrupt or has other problems there are other ways to reform them without resorting to radical laws to outlaw their rights. Period.
"I'd crawl over glass to vote for him," said Dave DeVetter, a Walker supporter, at the governor's rally Monday evening in Green Bay.
Dave the masochist represents the true desire of poor, working, and middle class people who vote Republican- they just WANT to suffer.
Dave, if Walker wins, you probably will get your chance to crawl over glass- dumpster diving for food when you are broke. Walker will be eating steak and laughing all the way to the bank.
If you turn off GOP fox news outlet and watch other news sources, you see the Wisc Billionaire woman ask Walker what is next after he won. He said he was going after collective bargaining...divide and conquer.
So he did it. He made you hate your fellow neighbor who is not a millionaire like him and his ouside cronies and the billionaire woman who asked him the question. You now hate your neighbor because they are union members. Those union jobs set the bar for the jobs you have in pay, health benefits, vacation, raises, sick pay, etc...............DIVIDED AND CONQUERED YOU! If he wins this election because you voted for him...YOU LOSE...you will be paid less, have worse healthcare, etc..........HE DIVEDED YOU FROM YOUR OWN SELF INTERESTS. He divided you from your future earnings.
Clearly, Scott Walker is a puppet for the Koch Bros and big money in general who back the Republican party, but most of all he is nothing but a shameful liar. This man is an accomplished liar if I ever saw one.
Romney and Walker believe "Corporations are people too"......Tell that to the families of soldiers who died in war. Tell that to the wounded and dying soldiers and their families. The soldiers bleed red blood while war profiteer corporations raked in Billions from the profit of war. Outside super pacs of Walker spent 27 million more than Dems in this election. Why do outside billionaires want to win the election, take the election from common people?
Where are the birth certificates of corporations eh teabaggers?
GoJoBiden: There is zero chance that Romney can win in Wisconsin, and selecting Paul "Kill Medicare" Ryan as his running mate would be disastrously stupid.
Mucker... you are a Moron.
$350,000 home in NY = $6500 school tax, plus $6000 county tax,
9% Sales tax on all goods purchased (none on food),
Average toll on the NYS Thruway = $5,
Vehicle Registration fees averaging $125 per year,
Fees, Fees, Fees. It's pretty sad when the Gov't workers get on average 4 weeks vacation each year, as well as 15-20 sick days per year.
It is no surprise that the venom out there (and here apparently) is mostly coming from the liberal left. And then there are those newsreel clips of some external union people threatening reporters. Wow are they full of hate and anger! Walker did what he said he was going to do and what he was elected to do by the people. The results show it, unlike the Teleprompter In Chief in the White House for the past three and a half years (who can only blame Bush and Republicans for his own policy failures - how about that jobs report last week, eh Obamalibs?).
Wisconsin spoke a year and a half ago on what they wanted. And they got it. Walker balanced the budget and got a surplus without firing one..single..government union employee. So all this time what was one of their biggest whines? They had to pay a larger share of their health care benefit costs, from about from 6% to 12%, where most Americans in a typical company pay more like 25% of their health insurance premium costs. Awe, BOO HOO! The left has been reduced to nothing but insipid lies and insult slinging. This is only a precursor to the BIG election coming up in five months. It's going to be so much fiun watching heads mentally explode.
Got any proof??? I recall that Walker cut $1 billion from education, and that almost always requires teachers being laid off....
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
And according to the Democrats and union folks here, the sky continues to fall. The hope of this nation rests on the sky continuing to fall through November. Go Walker!
Walker believes as we do - limit the edamucation of the youngins and that there science and concentrate on good ole white christian teachings....(and home skoolin let's you get to know yur sisters and cousins better anyhows;>)
How does Scott Walker's mind work ?
A union employee just trying to
collect a pension after 30+ years of working = moocher communist.
A woman
who is worth 3 billion dollars asking him what she can do to help him make
Wisconsin a right to work (for peanuts) state = wonderful patriotic
American.
This is NOT a good guy.
William Jennings Bryan would be cheering those Wisconsin voters on!!!
"THOU SHALT NOT USE A GOLDEN CROSS TO PRESS DOWN A CROWN OF THORNS UPON THE BROW OF LABOR."
[If I didn't get that quotation quite right please correct me].
All you Republicans must be rich and that's why you like people like Walker and Romney. I for one would like to keep all of my hard-earned cash. I have been on both sides of the union. I was a teacher and union member and am now non-union. I make less money now and work longer hours than I did when I was a union member. Gee, what does that tell you? Good luck, Wisconsin!!! You're going to need it if Walker wins this election.
I hope Walker is recalled but not because I think the Democratic candidate will be that different than the incumbent.
Barret has already said he will not completely repeal Walker's anti union campaign, only tweak it.
Both parties are owned by the rich and are servants of the rich. The Democrats just talk different but many times do just about what the Republicans would.
The union LEADERSHIP is also corrupt and only want to keep the union dues coming in to support them. Many times the collude with the Democrats in screwing rank and file union workers.
But like I said at the top, I still hope Walker is defeated, he's a front man for the attack on the working class or middle class however you want to put it.
Mygirl, I don't believe FDR said anything remotely like what you attributed to him.
FDR, the penultimate progressive, did away with public sector unions and he did so because, as he so rightly stated, the unions were the ones forcing and essentially, creating, legislation, not the other way around.
When did he say it and where? Unless you cite a credible source it is my belief you are either lying, or repeating lies you heard on fox news.
i can understand the anti labor positions of the rich posters.they want cheap,docile servants.well slaves really.roy you mentioned staying in costa rica.if things turn to crap and i think they will rich americans in other countries are going to have a problem.my greatgrand father was in mexico when things turned ugly.his rich employers were decapitated.im sure they didnt think it could happen to them either.good luck
arch;right on
Apparently Walker wins so now we have proof that the American vote can be bought. I hope those in WI who voted for Walker are proud to have sold our democracy to the highest bidder. Now I hope those working class in WI get what they deserve. Now we will see the truth about Walkers agenda so the working class had better bend over and smile. I can't wait until it hits the fan because I'll be happy to say I told you so. Americans had better start preparing for lower wages, more expensive health care for less coverage, uneducated kids, seniors dying sooner, no more coverage for the disabled, less coverage for vets and so on. If you think I'm crazy, good because I can't wait to hear all you Repubs whine when you are paying for the Romney tax cuts.
No Winker
Exit polls showed a 60 - 40% of voters say recall elections are for corruption and not for political revenge.
Walker has become the first Governor in to survive a recall election.
Just remember...Walker told the woman billionare on camera, DIVIDE AND CONQUER..AND YOU ARE NEXT. Successfully brainwashed you against your friends and neighbors to give the corporations and 1% more of your money while you pay the taxes they should be paying. The money your friends and neighbors received went right back into your community, your schools, your stores, your economy. Your local media made millions with all the outside money, of course they don't care about you, because your media is now owned by the rich.
You just voted to give yourself less pay and benefits, you just gave the millionaires and billionaires more of your money. You were just bought by corporations from ALEC.
I have to laugh a bit Winker-2891142.... The American vote can be bought.... PLEASE... Education in our country is gone to @!$%# bc of Federal Government and sorry to say it but the UNIONS too! I have been bending over for years paying into pensions and health care for ppl who make more than me already! Americans better learn a lesson that has long since been forgotten "Live within your means".... And union dues go right into the pockets of politicians so don't be such a hypocrite!
Well Wisconsin made there choice they decided to put a crook back in office , being from another state I can laugh at them as they slowly go down the drain and become say like Mississippi, with their poor schools, and medical, no jobs,everything run by corporations , big government in favor of the rich , good luck Wisconsin
Ya know what I find ironic? Here in Jersey, we have more school districts then your own state of CA (in spite of the obvious geographic size, AND population numbers difference). We'll have 4, and even 6 principles in a given school, with multiple VPs on top of that, and of course the administration pulls much larger salaries then the teachers. We have super intendants comming out of our ears, so many so that on local radio, some have made jokes about us having a super-intendant of paper clips. But check this out, EVERY TIME they talk about cuts, it's teachers, either teacher pay or teacher numbers, but never talk about cutting the glut among school administrators, consolidating some of these excess school zones, or trimming the number of super intendants.
Now I won't say that there isn't anything worth consideration. In fact Christie's idea of merit based pay and some reform to tenure isn't without merit. But why do we never talk about this phenomina of too many chiefs, and not enough indians? Bergen county has Rosseta Stone teaching Spanish to elementary school aged kids (required by state law now, given illegals won't learn English, so now Jersey kids are required to learn Spanish), because a CD is considered more "cost effective" then an actual teacher. But schools keep having 4 or even 6 principles, and there is no reiging in on that....
Hell Philadelphia (OK that's the PA school system, but I do live close to the state border, so am familiar with both) gave a super who only worked there for 3 years, $864,000 retirement package..... New Jersey wasn't too far out of that $ amount with one of it's supers.... And yet we seem to have money for that, but not money so for instance those kids forced to learn Spanish can have more then a CD to teach it. I wonder how many salaries could be payed for by that size retirement package there.... The subject of administrative costs, cutting them, cutting beuracracy at the top, etc never seems to come up. The talk is about the teachers, and seems not to reach that level....
Walker's huge win in Wisconsin shows that even in a liberal state, the people want leadership, which Walker has shone, economic policies that work which Walker implemented and that the unions are no longer relevant. This is a huge loss for Obama and the Dems.
Romney 2012!
Hendy329,
"unions are no longer relevant"
Would you do us the favor of explaining precisely why unions are no longer relevant? Is it because workers no longer have any complaints or because employers just don't care and don't want unions getting in the way?
"Walker's day will come"
If only California would do the same thing that was done in Wisconsin they would also be in better shape then they are now. The unions rule California and with Brown has govener they get what ever the want and screw the commen man.
reg...
Just checked the latest US Census numbers...here in Connecticut we have 3.2 million people and about 55,000 state government employees. Wisconsin has 5.7 million people and 57,500 state government employees.
Wisconsin elected conservative Scott Walker and their state's unemployment rate has fallen 1%...their $3 billion in debt reduced to the $100 million range.
Connecticut elected a liberal Democrat to be governor in 2010 and within 6 months the largest tax increase in state history was put into effect...and the new July 2011 state income tax rate was brought in retroactively to January 1st. Last month, $18,000,000 in longevity bonuses were hand out to a group of state employees who have "existed" on their jobs for more than 10 years. Meanwhile, the year's deficit projection is approaching $200 million.
From your end of the nation or mine...Scott Walker looks pretty good !
The Super PAC's are far more dangerous to the will of the people than any union ever was. Super PAC's are the Republicans version of unions on steroids. Super PAC's are corporate America. They didn't even start out for the people. They started out a greedy empire. It was unconstitutional for Super PAC's to exist untill the Republican dominated Supreme Court played Republican activists on the bench. That is also unconstitutional what our Supreme Court did. Elections go to the highest bidder now. With the Republicans it is "we the corporations" and not "we the people."
Romney said, "Corporations are people too."
If only! We are totally screwed by public union pension and benefits burden here in Calif. This essentially a one party state and the Democrats like it that way! I'm independent but I hear Democrats say all the time not that they disagree with conservatives, but that they HATE them.
So the bankers crash the economy and the GOP has you believing its the unions. lololololololo People will believe anything!
I will agree that the super Pac's are stupid.
I am sure however that the Democrats will manage to fund their own.
Not all elections will be won by the highest bidder. Also it was President Obama that raised and spent the most for a presidential election ever.
yea lets blame union workers like cops, firemen and teachers for the Budget problems this country faces ?...genius thinker you are huh ?
The people you so quickly want to take benifits away from are your neighbors, your childrens classmates.......the people who protect you ...
How about blaming the BILLIONS this country wasts on WARS and the BILLIONS this country gives away in foriegn aid ?
But Noooooo, Republicans / Conservatives want to blame other working americans..How Sad !
You conservatives complaining that it's all the public employees that are killing the state are full of **** Can't believe you people actually believe that crap the old Reagan playbook it's all the big bad union fault and it's all gov't workers fault. Please do some research before you post your lies and non facts! Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity need to be banned from the airwaves for the lies and crap they spew dividing the country, I am sure non of these people give a dam about any of you they are all laughing all the way to the bank and they are all laughing at you! Like any of you would ever be invited to any party or country club they go to!!
This is to the person talking about Cali. It couldn't be all the illegal aliens sucking the state dry could it?
yep, it's the union "thugs" (not sure what that is) can't be CEO's making $50 million a year or the hedge fund managers making the same or more, while both pay an effective income tax rate of 15%......
it's jealousy, I'm getting screwed so everyone else should get screwed to. A RACE TO THE BOTTOM
Seriously? I wouldnt crawl through glass to vote. These people are crazy.
THIS IS WHAT DEMOCRACY LOOKS LIKE…. That was written on the t-shirts of the many PAID protesters that the unions bussed into the State Capitol last year to “protest” WHAT?
Does democracy mean if you don’t agree with the other members of your State assemble, You walk out of the process? (Leave the state entirely) then spend 18-20 million on a recall election, for a governor who hasn’t broken ANY laws? That’s not what democracy looks like…
please put aside what some of the pundits on MSNBC have told you, and just think for yourself, Walker is doing a pretty good job for the State of Wisconsin, face the facts Unemployment in that state is going down and they are running a surplus. do you really want the Dem’s to come in and wreck that?
Calmike- it's not the workers, its there unions. It's not that unions are bad, it's the way they are funding them. If public employees want to unionize, fine. PRIVATIZE the union. Let unions take care of their own. Taxpayers should not have to pay for a retiree's benefits while paying for their replacement too. That is it in a nutshell.
The guy who said this is a political power grab by the unions is an idiot. It's about the rich bosses trying to bring workers back to the days before the Trianlge Shirtwaiste Factory Fire (Google it if you'd like an education on what working conditions were and will be again if this recall is unsuccessful). However, the bosses are about to find out what happens when you start a fight and lose. The unions have been steadily losing power since NYC enacted the Taylor Law and Regan broke up the Air Traffic Controllers (who are now working shifts long enough to put them to sleep and the flying public in danger). It's time for the people to rise up and again demand their fair share. Why should companies pay their executives huge bonuses when employees are losing their jobs? Power To The People!
First off, "us conservatives" are not complaining that public employees are the sole cause of issues in this state. The union stuff is just a small part of what Walker has been doing here. I'm guessing a lot of people commenting against what Walker is doing to union employees don't even live here, and don't know half of what is really going on here. No one is blaming the cops and teachers and other people who are greatly respected by us all. Our problem lies not with them. It lies with how the state was being run as a whole. Unless you live here and you have the rest of the facts not being force fed to you via the media and big unions, I would advise you keep your mouths shut.
Go ahead with your nasty comments at me. I'll send them right back after we win tomorrow. :)
Ed McT-2404427
You have hit on the heart of the issue. In the case of public workers the rich boss is US. We are the taxpayers who pay their salary. No one is saying a private union can't negotiate for better situations. We are saying that Public workers can't hold out and negotiate against their fellow citizens. It is completely different than negotiating with a company trying to make a profit.
Government Unions NEED TO TAKE A PAY CUT. There is a reason government (state or Fed) can not balance their budgets and wages/benefits paid to government employees is a large part!
To those that say that 'the end of Unions will cause a blight on the American workplace & cause people to work 65 hours a week for minimum wage while standing neck-deep in excrement...'
...you're full of said excrement. Labor laws exist on the books to prevent any recurrence of the days of 7-day workweeks & low wages. Laws, they're an amazing thing; read & understand a few of them before posting.
Your scare tactics are foolish in trying to get people to continue supporting the Mafia... err, the Unions.
Anyone who plans on living in austerity for the rest of your life...vote Republican. I live in NJ. Our idiot Republican governor cut education, fire, police and emergency taxpayers already paid for. Some of us for decades through our property taxes which are the nation's highest. So what exactly am I paying $5100 in property taxes for now? Half th police my town once had, half the emergency and fire and all while Christie's biggest priority was handing out a 10% income tax cut to his "Haves" of the 1% persuasion and Big Business, taxpayers are already paying out half their annual incomes to support through taxes and as consumers.
How long do Republicans figure they can continue the austerity on the 99% while we enrich the 1% and the Corporate Welfare state. All eyes on WI. If WI can't recall Walker, it will give more power to every Republican Bully Male across the country. There may be some in this country who don't mind having right wing neoconservatism rammed down their throats. I'm not one of them. I'd love to see any right winger try that one without getting my size 6 shoe rammed in their nether regions first.
Listen up repugnants! You can't run for office on one thing and then win and blind side the people with some other agenda! Give me a break morons! You repugnants love lies! Just like when Bush lied about WMD and so many of our soldiers were killed that's OK with you all though! SCUM!
There is a reason Jimmy Carter and a Democratically controlled Congress took away collective bargaining rights for many Federal employees...
after what happened in neighboring indiana in the last election, a dem had hundreds of deceased people signed up to vote, wonder how many out of state union thugs will be voting or hanging out at the polls?
Homie...65 hours a week...I know alot of managers who would love to work only 65 hours a week, but that is the price management pays in order to make sure union workers (some of whom actually get paid more and work lots less) still have jobs to come to when they show up.
Those of you that spout your ani-union crap are naive. I work in a school in California and the only people getting rich on salaries and bonus' are ADMINISTRATION!!! Let me say that again for you in case you can't read.........the biggest abusers of the system are ADMINISTRATION!!! Our college President just got a raise while regular employees like me have gone without a raise in 4 years. And I pay into my pension system, almost $600 a month.....so all of you that just listen to Rush about how people like me are bankrupting the system really ought to do some research before just re-spewing talking points that you have no clue about.
Sheep and lemmings....it's sad really. The poster who talked about salaries and benefits going down when union participation goes down are quoting true facts that were actually additionally provided on a Fox news report.
SuperBon.....you should be the poster child for left wing ignorance!! Have you reserved your seat on the socalist bus to nowhere yet???
trollslayer--You are full of crap. And, Walkers a crapbag.
Super -
Repugnants, huh? Nice. What are you, eight years old. Someone upset you, so now you have to call people names? You are a prime example of the sheep that the current political environment and biased news reporting has bred. You spit venom at people who don't share your personal point of view, and belittle them by coming up with unoriginal names to mock them. And please know, I'm not talking about just you, but everyone who subscribes to this polarized political mindset that there is only one right way to run this country...Republican or Democrat. The only absolute is that there are no absolutes, and people who deal in them are destined to be wrong eventually.
And please, before spouting off about the WMD crap, ask a vet who served in Iraq. I've asked many, and they all say the same thing...the chemicals to create WMD's were there, and there recently before the invasion. So please, save the whole Bush lied crap. It's old, it's tired, and it's wrong.
Actually in most cases the problem for most budgets in states are what is pieced off for each program. Example is when teachers are let go, most times they are told its because of money budget issues, bad thing in most cases its unions against unions to get the piece of the pie for their members. Ever look at a financial statement for a public school board and you'll notice that 30-35% of the budget is for administration staff and not teachers. You usually get in the media that the school board needs to eliminate 40 teaching positions, that is because they don't eliminate administrative staff. If you reduce admin staff by 5-6% you can hire an additional 80 to 90 teachers.
In the end what you need to ask yourself do you need an accountant for each school to go through there finances or can you lump schools together of 5 or 10 and have 1 accountant? Each accountant is approx. 40K a year and a reduction of 4 in this example would hire 4 new teachers increasing a better teaching environment for kids. This same example applies for each department of government, policing, firefighting, etc where you have too many admin staff that reduces the service of the main product.
Another example for waste is do you need a payroll person for each little group within a department. If you have 5 groups in the police department you have potentially 5-10 payroll admin staff, why? Condense and make one group with 4-5 admin staff and hire 6 new police officers.
Again, its usually unions vs unions in budgeting processes which makes costs higher. Imagine actually going into a bargining process and ask "What benefit do you provide the people of the state' and if you do what will you state is the added value & cost benefit?" In most cases you can weed out 30-35% of the aspect of unions in public service as the added benefit in most cases can be outsourced to private and now service reduction has occured, only benefit is a potential reduction in the budget.
SuperBon "You can't run for office on one thing and then win and blind side the people with some other agenda!"
Kind of like Obama in the Whitehouse huh. What happened to cutting the deficit in half.
GO SCOTT WALKER!
tactical45
"trollslayer--You are full of crap. And, Walkers a crapbag."
Really?
The Government/media has lied to you! Look at the facts and reply with something substantive, calling a person names because you don’t agree with them, just deepens the divide in this country. I disagree with everything you stand for BUT I’ll defend your right to say whatever’s on your mind and I’ll never disrespect you or anyone else who voices their opinion. What’s the point of that?
They (government /media) are playing us against each other. they steal our liberty’s while we fight over nonsense like race or gay marriage. They are winning!
This election will be won on 3 factors:
1) which side gets their voters to the polls, that goes without saying. they are estimating 65% turnout.
2) blacks in Milwaukee county can weigh in heavily on the outcome and tip the scales in favor of Barrett.
3) how many who voted for Walker votes for Barrett this time. a crossover vote counts as 2 votes against Walker.
Amen Leamon!
Wait...I can still say that without offending everyone and being called a nasty name right? ;)
"This whole recall thing is appalling to me," said Tori Rader, a Walker supporter, at the governor's Green Bay rally. "When you elect somebody, the only way you should be able to get them out of office is because of malfeasance. Not because you don't like what they did."
What a waste of taxpayer money by the unions. Wisconsin needs to make it more difficult to do a recall, not just because a governor does what he promised to do.
Look, we got off the right track, over the last 3 years. We had it right from 200 to 2006. We have to return to those policies. Walker and Romney can give us the same results, that the policies during Bush gave us!
I have worked on both sides of the fence. I have worked on Union jobs. I have owned my own business in witch a union would have put me out of business. Small business can not afford Union wages or the benefits. Nothing against Unions but a real small business just can't make that kind of money. I was just fired from a job where I was a Manager. The one thing I seen closer then ever before was the fact that Managers and upper Management do not do with out a thing when things get slow. They let people go just days before Christmas, to make the numbers look good for the guys up the latter. They hire in this case, people from the former USSR, pay them very little, so most of them live on Welfare. They are on call so they really don't know how much they will make each week. One young man that worked for me, worked there for 8 years and was making $8.00 an hour. He could do most any job in the place. He should have been making more like $10.00 an hour. Then there was this other guy that was a out right Drunk. Smart as hell when he was not Drunk. Anywhere else he would have made $25.00 an Hour. I was fired because I wanted to bring my people up to where they should have been. But opps that means that the bosses might not get to drive 2 new Cadillac's and a new SUV. Live in a huge new house. You see its all about the numbers. I had to treat my guys like @!$%# so me and the other lower managers could get our bonuses. We didn't make that much money considering the hours we worked. But upper management made big money. Everyone else has to work for nothing and live on welfare so the GM and up could live like kings. That just didn't settle with me. That is why we have Unions. You know if everyone would just do the right thing, we would not need unions, or Regulations.
The simple fact of the "government union" equation is that it is becoming unaffordable. Benefits & pension costs keep growing and the human being is living longer. Every year there are more retirees out there and growing benefit and health care costs. Union members get a second education in how to maximize their retirement payments. The number of state employees is always growing, even if slowed a bit when the economy is weak.
I read a column once where the writer said that in the future "Private sector employees will be working until age 72 to fund the pensions and healthcare benefits of public sector employees retiring at age 55'.
I don't think that's very far from the truth. I'm sure most government union workers are fine folks. But they are becoming unaffordable.
Dudelips22,
Swallow this accurate perspective:
From the Right Wingers: keep us in office so that we can keep robbing America's middle class and annihilate the poor. We have already robbed the U.S. treasury and reversed the "Robin Hood" principle of take from the rich and give to the poor. We intend to continue to take America Backwards!
How many recalls does this country have to have before the GOP and the 1%ers realize that the majority rules?
We, the people, get to vote.
Remember, Walker was caught on video slyly stating that the way to collapsed unions is to "divide and conquer" them.
Union are protective and historic entities.
Without unions, many workers would not have:
Paid sick leave
Health Care benefits
Safe working environments
Defined working duties
Living Wages (although many workers are still struggling in our GOP collapsed economy)
Retirement Benefits
Protection from Discriminatory job firings
The right to a legal grievance process
It is amazing that the wealthy feel that what they have mostly stolen is fine in their pocket, but a modicum of what they have is too much for the average person to possess. This ilk is demanding that they continue to enrich themselves at the expense of the populace. Wisconsin Democratic and Independent voters, get out and vote.
Send Walker packing!
Scott Walker is a paid Koch Bum, kick him out on his A$$ !!!!!!!!!!!
As a resident of WI, I've been watching this closely. Who did I vote for today? I didn't and will not. I cannot in good conscience vote for EITHER candidate. Walker did right by limiting the collective bargaining for the public workers. Keep in mind that's a whopping 7% -12% of employees in this state - not exactly the entire downfall of the middle class as has been professed. Then he decided to wage war on females and on those who can barely make it as it is and lost me. He's re-done the employment numbers with a different formula, skewing them in his favor, and is in the pocket of big business.
Then you have Barrett. HE did the same things with numbers regarding violent crimes in Milwaukee. Did anyone really believe the numbers had dropped in that city with the unemployment at it's current level? And let's not forget the raids at the State Fair. Now, he's not in the pocket of big business, but owned by the unions. So if he wins, collective bargaining is restored and the only way we get teachers to come to the PTA meetings is to pay them to - again. The union tactics through all of this have been disgraceful, with the WEAC telling teachers to go protest (knowing they'd have to leave their jobs to do so) and unions spreading lies in other states about the changes, etc. Walker is now facing potential criminal investigations.
In the meantime, over 40 million dollars have been WASTED on this fiasco. How many teachers jobs would that cover? How many people would that buy food for? How many school supplies or medication for seniors? No, I cannot support either person and can't wait until this term is up - maybe someone who actually knows the meaning of the word "integrity" will run.
Ewent: Because the state of NJ is paying three times what other states are paying in Unemployment insurance. The state of NJ is actually keeping up with the cost of living for those who are without a job. No one in that state is getting screwed by the 1%. You should keep up with the news before you spout your mouth off. Gov. Christie is just trying to promote more people to hire.
That sounds a lot like flip flopping......Funny, I know someone else that is capable of the very same thing
Oh, trollslayer ... You are really funny.
A Democrat in Indiana????
Ain't no such animal!
Obviously you meant to say a Republican, or you are the troll instead of the trollslayer...
i hear Dems is creating zombies to vote dem! and illegal alien zombies at that!!!! (Illegal alien zombies will suck ya dry - literlly!!!!!)
Ewent-
Funny, I live in Washington and have a second term Democrat Governor and she cut all the same things! I thought it was a Democrat thing!
Maybe its a recession thing? Or maybe its a political thing...
Our State Senate is also reorganizing Public Union benefits. Interesting how it isn't getting much attention, but they are simply consolidating all public worker's benefits into one fund instead of many to save money. Maybe that is the Democrat way of busting unions!
WE GAVE IRAQ weapons to fight off the Iranians!!!! We BACKED IRAQ during the Iran-Iraq war. There weren't any WMDs in Iraq; only components. Why did we have to invade??? We WASTED, I repeat, WASTED, 4,500 lives in that effort. I am sorry to say this to any vet who served there, but NOTHING WAS ACCOMPLISHED. Democracy is on a thread in the country, and it could be on the brink of civil war. Take it from a person of Middle Eastern descent; you cannot change the ways of a people ingrained by centuries of warfare. You cannot bring democracy and freedom with bombs and bullets. It requires a gradual transition, and a willingness of the people to work for that democracy. The Iraqi people are willing, but they are too divided along ethnic and sectarian lines. The only way to put democracy in the Middle East is by reconciling the different faiths; Christian, Shiite, and Sunni. Invading a country and then occupying it for nearly a decade does not bring peace; only war.
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
Interesting that you don't even mention what unemployment is like in Connecticut. Instead, you compare apples to giraffes. Scott Walker's Wisconsin has the worst job-creation record in the nation.
Like Walker told the Billionaire...divide and conquer...one down....if you don't make 1 million a year....YOU ARE NEXT ONE DOWN....AND YOU DID IT TO YOURSELF...........That is the funny part of this election.
Starsailing,
That is what is so stunning about the election results.
Voters are engaging in, self-inflicted punishment.
Welcome to the problems confronting the people in the various North Afica Countries (Eqypt, Tunisia, etc.). Over there a losing candidate's supporters protest because OUR candidate did not get elected!
I hope Walker wins that will send a clear message to the unions your days are numbered.
I hope Walker loses that will send a clear message to the fascists/ teabaggers your days are numbered.
You got that right!
LMAO! Your funny clear message my as! We have a message for Walker and his scumbag followers he will be hearing it loud and clear tonight LMAO! Keep on keeping on fighters against scum!
When Walker wins...
It will be a Victory for the State taxpayers...
Taxpayers are tired of paying for the bloated salaries and pensions for state union employies...
Go Walker..!
Look what unions did to Detroit. They had their place and time, not anymore. Good luck Gov Walker.
building outdated styles is what destroyed Detroit. Making cars that nobody wanted.
I wish we had someone here like Walker in the state of NY. Everyone knows that the teacher's unions are destroying the NYC school systems. Some of these teachers are way overpaid for the results that they give. Even in the poorest sections, a family will sacrifice everything to send their children to private school rather than put them into the public school system.
25Walker
Dudelips22,
Swallow this accurate perspective:
From the Right Wingers: keep us in office so that we can keep robbing America's middle class and annihilate the poor. We have already robbed the U.S. treasury and reversed the "Robin Hood" principle of take from the rich and give to the poor. We intend to continue to take America Backwards!
How many recalls does this country have to have before the GOP and the 1%ers realize that the majority rules?
We, the people, get to vote.
Remember, Walker was caught on video slyly stating that the way to collapse unions is to "divide and conquer" them.
Union are protective and historic entities.
Without unions, many workers would not have:
- Paid sick leave
- Health Care benefits
- Safe working environments
- Defined working duties
- Living Wages (although many workers are still struggling in our GOP collapsed economy)
- Retirement Benefits
- Protection from discriminatory job firings
-The right to a legal grievance process
It is amazing that the wealthy feel that what they have mostly stolen is fine in their pockets, but a modicum of what they have is too much for the average person to possess. This ilk is demanding that they continue to enrich themselves at the expense of the populace. Wisconsin Democratic and Independent voters, get out and vote.
Send Walker packing!
Scott Walker and the Koch mob has succeeded in dividing the State of Wisconsin by destroying hard working middle class, dump this loser in the toilet and flush him away !!!!!!!!
Rod_Father:
"building outdated styles is what destroyed Detroit. Making cars that nobody wanted."
Like the Chevy Volt???
Go Walker!!!
"This recall's not about our state or economy; it's about a union power grab." - On what planet is there a union "power grab" when the governor decided to wage war on Unions with the assistance of the Koch family? That's like saying that women started in against the GOP, inciting the "war on women" verbiage. It is an excellent ruse of psychological trickery, though, to punch someone in the face and then complain about their retaliation. I hope the high turnout means that the robocalling, etc., was unsuccessful. Remember, win by a large margin or risk suffering the post-vote shenanigans like those that resulted in Bush "winning" the presidency.
I fully expect Walker and his cronies to challenge the Dem win and accuse "Voter ID fraud" -- typical poor loser attitude of the far right .. a bunch of whining babies...
bullchit reb,
large trucks that got 10 miles to the gallon and cars that did not change style over 20 years, that is what killed Detroit. people were moving to cars and trucks built by japanese companies.
made in the USA no longer applies. made in china, taiwan, japan, you name it, then shipped to the us.
you must be smoking krack, the volt is a 2 yr old car.
if it were up to repubes, we'd still be makin all stupid muscle cars and wonderin why japs kick our a$$. And of course them auto jobs would be overseas cuz there wudn't be no stinkin benefits for auto workers here... oh the wonderful world of Walker and Repubes!!
That's right, all of those Detroit auto stylists were Republicans and it was all a vast right-wing conspiracy to destroy the car companies so that Republicans could achieve their real goal, government ownership of the auto companies! And the tin-hat brigade is supposedly on the right.
BTE, 'repubes', how cute! Are you eleven and a half, or have you turned twelve yet?
@Gator
That's like saying that women started in against the GOP, inciting the "war on women" verbiage. It is an excellent ruse of psychological trickery, though, to punch someone in the face and then complain about their retaliation.
You mean like the dem's "war on religion" when they passed that contraceptives thing and then got mad when the Catholic church responded? You would think the church should be allowed to speak up about something that directly effects them and their belief system, but noooo, that's a "war on women", the church and everyone else should just sit down, shut up, and blindly do whatever the government tells them. Then, as a final insult, the President decides to igonre the religious concern and act like the church just doesn't wan't to pay for it.
How could the democrats not see it coming? They had to know this would cause a stir. I guess they just don't care anymore about religious freedom. Of course, I don't blame all of the democrats. After all, they had to vote for the bill to find out what was in it.
And the Catholic Priests start their own version of the "war on women" by attacking their own nuns. LOL. Ain't they the greatest? Between molestin young boys and attacking nuns protecting their own rights.... LOL
Kracked......I drive a electric car. It's pretty damn nice paying $2.00 a day to drive to work, instead of paying $7.00. That, by the way, includes a battery replacement. Don't crap on the electric cars, they're a whole bunch more reliable and much less expensive to feed fuel. That includes coal fired fuel that does nothing at night, while we sleep.
Walker's a right-wing corporately owned douche-bag. Here's hoping for his defeat.
Hey Necky -
Name-calling is the last refuge of some poor soul who has no substantive rebuttal. Also,............
"The multiplication of public offices, increase of expense beyond income, growth and entailment of a public debt, are indications soliciting the employment of the pruning knife." --Thomas Jefferson
Lastly, it was Abraham Lincoln who said "You cannot spend yourself into prosperity".
All of these great Americans know what Walker is trying to do. Since he started his program to get the state fiscally responsible, the deficits have gone down and unemployment is down 1%. I guess the unions don't like that he is successful when they don't even have a clue.
@Necky; Just like a lib, when the going gets tough start insulting.
You may say that it's only the liberals doing the name calling but I sure see a lot of it coming from the conservatives too. Name calling accomplishes nothing and only divides the people which is what I think some of our beloved leaders want in this country. The more we argue among ourselves the less attention we pay to them.
libs are the name callers huh?
isn't it Newt Gingrich that puts out the talking points papers telling everyone what inflammatory words to use to make the libs sound bad?????
in case you missed it the answer is YES !!!! republican hypocrisy is wonderful isn't it ?????
Republican hypocrisy?
I see more Democrat hypocrisy than anything else... and Union thuggery.
The hypocrisy runs deep on both sides. Unions are dead. They do nothing anymore with all of the labor laws that are in place (put there by both sides) and those work better than unions. My father was in the carpenters union. They did well by him but even he now is saying that SEIU and the others are not about the workers anymore and he should know. People, stop with the bickering and childish blame games. By doing this you are taking your eyes off of what is really happening. Open yourselves (both sides) to what is RIGHT & WRONG. Not LEFT & RIGHT. It's Obamas economy now, its all him. Seriously look at what has been done to our country and STOP defending politicians. THEY ALL SUCK and do not care about you. Please come together (and to all you Libs who believe in COEXISTENCE/TOLERANCE...practice what you preach. Name calling and bashing shows you have no tolerance either)
PRIVATE SECTOR unions are all but dead. In very many ways, this is unfortunate as they have set the pace for pay and benefits in the private sector; some have served as a place where industries such as construction companies which have a widely variably-sized workforce depending on which projects they have going at the time can essentially share qualified employees who have chance to have ongoing health benefits and a retirement plan.
PUBLIC SECTOR unions have been thriving and are now the majority of unionized workers in the U.S. This is also unfortunate, as they can bargain for benefits which are unaffordable and far superior to any enjoyed by the vast majority of those who MUST pay for them under penalty of law. If the benefits and pay negotiated by a private sector companies unions make that company's products unaffordable, I can then go out into the free marketplace and by other products from other companies which I can afford. If my government becomes unaffordable, I can't "buy another brand" of it without moving to another jurisdiction. This is why public sector unions which can bargain collectively and/or require binding arbitration are essentially monopolies. They can also trump the will of the voters if their contracts require whatever is in them to be the first call on state or local revenue. If you approve of this, vote to recall Walker and show that you feel that your "public servants" should in fact be your public masters.
What union thuggery?
Anybody get beat up by a union guy?
Union guys watching at the polls? Watching? Really?
Or just in your imagination!
It's George Bush's Fault I know it, MSNBC Knows it, the Mad Cow Rachel Maddow knows it, Feisty knows it, LOL
Anybody but Obama in 2012 " I voted for Obama in 08 "
And if you know. what is good for you and the Nation, you better vote for Obama again, especially if you are a woman or we will be back in the 50's with 'lil' Beavers Mom, pregnant and barefoot.
Common Francis, things are even worse than before and it's not looking good, the thing that worries me is the deficit the spending the unemployment gas prices, anything else is secondary such as gay rights, and other things " don't get me wrong they are important but when it comes for deciding who the leader of the free world will be we need to focus on the economy period.
Thanks and I hope that I don't get insulted.
Unions allow for the mass of an employed body to be compensated well above their performance level. In no situation, presently in the US, would that result in anything positive.
So the bankers crash the economy and the GOP has you believing its the unions. lololololololo People will believe anything!
And nowhere are they at their absolute worst than in the State and Local Government arena (Public Sector).
Pissedoffperson.
there is no doubt that the unions are effecting the states and their budgets. Unions do not provide for the fullest employment, they want the highest pay, and the best benefits. Fine I want that too, but if you put the company you are working for out of business or cause taxes to be raised to pay for your salary, who wins?
So you think the CEO taking home several million a year is not over compensated but the schmuck actually doing all the work, is? Amazing.
Take away unions and you won't be able to count how many workers who have been at their jobs for 25+ years suddenly get fired months before their pension vests.
Having worked at the physical labor jobs and as a manager. Anyone that thinks being an Executive is easy has never done it. As a repairman, waiter, installer, etc. (have done them all) all I have to do is show up and do as I am told. At the end of the day I can completely forget the job.
As a Manager it requires thinking far ahead to strategic goals, figuring out what it will take to reach them, implementing the mechanisms to make it happen, training the employees to get it done, managing the process and then adjusting as necessary. Thinking about the issue never stops. And as a Manager I take responsibility for the entire process. The worker can just show up.
If I wanted the easy job, it would be as the worker every time.
SoxFan,
Just curious...what do you think about the sports star that makes several million/year, or the entertainer that makes hundreds of millions/year?
a lot of you people are not only forgetting that unions do more for workers than just wages and benefits, but are also forgetting that it's not just about what walker did, but HOW he did it! To slip this crap in a budget bill and TRY to sneak it in through a back door HOPING no one would notice, but making sure nothing could be done about it when we did is grounds for recall on the principle alone! He knew damn well Wisconsin would never actually agree to effectively commit employment suicide so he decided to kill our rights for us, and the fact that he tried to do it quietly and behind the mask of budget balancing is offensive. The fact that so many Americans FELL FOR IT is a sad reminder of why this country is so @!$%#ed up! Now lets circle back to the unions and what they REALLY DO shall we? We'll start with a question. How many of you ladies out there supporting Walker enjoy sexual harassment in the workplace? How many of you gentleman like the thought of sending your pretty little wives off to work knowing they have a pig boss that makes inappropriate comments to them, treats them like objects of amusement or just makes them miserable for being a pretty little woman at work? Now how many of you like the thought of having NO course of action against this? Can't report it to anyone cause you'll get fired, can't quit cause you need the money, you have a family to raise, can't even call the police because WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH POLICE ANYMORE! What's more is that unions aren't paid by the wages they force companies to increase, or the benefits they force companies to provide but by the dues the union members pay themselves out of their own paychecks. unions aren't some big corporate machine, they are literally made up of the working people they represent so where is the logic in making them useless? Who does that really benefit?
Unions want fair treatment, weekends off, 40 hr workweek, holidays off, vacation time, child labor laws. Thanks to unions for bringing these things to everyone because corporations were taking advantage of workers. Now corporate sponsored think tanks has people believing that unions are bad! Im not in a union but I have read history books,I wish more would! There are bad people everywhere but there are more stupid people also who will believe anything.
SoxFan...
You honestly think that person, working 9-5, getting paid 50k to do a job that a teen could do is the same thing as literally carring the entire company on your shoulders?
From your comment alone i can tell you have never owned a company large enough to truely matter.
While the low paid worker is essential, so is the CEO, Just ask FORD how a CEO can change your company.
Good CEO's etc follow the money, factory workers are literally a dime a dozen, CEO's are not. I know the difference between working as a line cook for fast food, to maturing, investing and eventually starting up a local company. TONS OF DIFFERENCE.
PissedoffPerson...
Actually read up on the history of Ford and unions...To act like unions are the only one wanting this shows how un-educated you are on the subject matter.
While unions want fair....its hardly fair when they are able to push aside non-union workers to make sure their workers get in first or in some cases only.
They are no longer just fighting for workers rights, unions are going beyond their powers. I have seen and lived through the good and bad parts of unions from my parents right down to me.
Unions have a place, but that is the word....place...not overreaching power, with little choice.
One poster writes and writes and writes!
"So the bankers crash the economy and the GOP has you believing its the unions. lololololololo People will believe anything!"
You can bet the unions didn't help any that's for sure. The public unions are sucking many cities and counties dry. Do you honestly not see that your town or city can no longer pay the benifits and salary that your union demands? Do you care at all about anyone except yourself? The bankers deserve some of the blame I agree. However had it not been for those terrible bankers doing their dirty deeds our economy would have never been as hot as it was. That is a fact! Using reasonable policies the bankers would be better off but you can bet their are tons of others who's pockets would not be full of silver today. That goes double for the unions. While the money was flowing no one noticed or cared what the unions were doing. Now the well has run dry eyes are open and the unions have to go.
There is bad in everything elite. You cannot forget about all the positives that came from unions because of a few bad ones. There are bad cops but do we blame all of the cops for being bad, there are a few bad teachers but the blame does not go to all!!
SO since you want unions to pay their fair share , but the political figures dont have to pay anything. They get retirement after 5 yrs and their relatives get college on your dime. They have budget that rival small towns and you are going after unions!
I know of no person in Government who makes over $500K a year like Teacher's Unions chiefs do. Unions protect their own no matter how terrible of a job they do. Even get bonuses and pay far beyond the private sector. This has to end, Unions have out-lived themselves. Don't think so? They have k illed every industy. Remember the Movie Norma Rae? Where Sally field holds up a sign "Union", in a textile mill? Where is that textile industry now? In China because of Union demands. Get it?
Oh bull@!$%# Jaguar56. The manager/exec doesn't take the fall. He blames the worker-bee for not being cheap or fast enough (fired), he blames the purchaser for not finding inexpensive quality raw materials (fired). He hires someone to do the training (done training - fired). He does strategize on how he can get away with not paying someone a fair wage to do something (fired) or saving a buck on a valve or o-ring (boom).
The thing I never understand is that the manager/exec will say he's saving so much money by not paying a worker to where 3 hats, but he'll pay someone else 3 times the salary to do half the job. How is that savings? Wake up managers. You're not saving money on the one person, you're wasting money on the other guys and looking like an idiot. Respect is not earned, it is however, lost.
Your "thinking about the process never stops" comment is just your guilty conscience.
Huh, "the worker can just show up"...Oh, you mean union workers....sorry, I missed that....forget my rant....not
Pissedoffperson, If there was ever a screen name that fits it's yours. Sounds like you have some issues with envy. I have not seen one person say that the unions have never done a thing right. Hitler did some things right too. Does that make him a good leader? Was he overall good for society? I don't think so. Right is right and wrong is wrong. The unions and you are wrong on this issue. Period, end of story.
I am a small business owner so I definitely understand the stresses and obligations of a CEO. It doesn't change the fact that a company doesn't succeed without their employees. Jaquar56, I am not sure that being a CEO is harder because they can't leave the job at work and go home. I don't think that most CEOs have the 24/7 mentality anymore. And they don't have the stresses at home of how are we going to pay for day care and how are we going to eat. They are very well compensated for their time.
Do you think the CEO and upper management of AIG earned their half million dollar retreat and bonuses after failing and laying off thousands of employees because they are under more stress than the employees?
That is how big business treats their workers. Get ready for it to get worse too.
Elitewolverine, your comments are funny. A little ignorant because as I just posted to Jaguar56, I am a small business owner. I am fully aware of the struggles of starting a business.
You sound exactly like the type of employer that would abuse their employee every way possible unless there was a law against it.
Ron1861300, If you only look at the entertainers that make millions it is easy to believe that the actors union is obsolete. But we are not talking about the 1% here.... I don't think anyone believes that the unions are out to protect the 1%. There are millions of actors who make a regular living being extras, doing small access TV gigs or PSAs. It actually takes more than 3-4 stars to make a movie.
If what you are asking me is what do I think of the actors and athletes who make millions - I think that is a sad commentary of what this nation values. It is disgusting that a family of four can't catch a ball game without shelling out at least $200 and that is for bleacher seats. And I am guilty of it also (I'm sure you noticed the name). However, if the team (or film maker) is making a gazillion dollars from their product, then the players/actors deserve the millions they are making. The patrons pay to see the stars, not the owners.
The only way Wisconsin people will get Closure is to dump Walker !!!!!!!!
Do you know what the word "literally" means?
Actually, many teens could make good CEOs, and probably better CEOs than most of the dorks. Have you looked at Silicon Valley lately?
When the snow falls, or the water main ruptures, or you flush your toilet, if your house goes up in flames, or you send your perfect little Johnny or Jane to school, public service person takes care of that. They leave their warm bed in winter to plow your roads and make them safe for you to get to work or play. Most have multiple courses of study and discipline.
If Public workers retaliated en masse by staying home you would soon find they are not all that easily replaced. Salary and experience are something you would do well to consider, next time you go to the local creek to go fishing or swimming, those people try, under a lot of duress to accomodate y'all. And now they are being slandered, retaliation may well be considered.
Here, the teachers never leave their house if it snows an inch, or looks as if it might. Then they say, "Education is the most important thing a society does." This is arguably true, but the surely don't act like it. Have you ever heard them announce, "Due to the snow, there will be no policing today"? There are "public servants" and real public servants. The way Wisconsin teacher left their students in the lurch to go to Madison to protest, and then occupy and vandalize the state capitol, shows which they are.
Now we wait and see if the people will speak with inclusion or with segregation. Everyone should remember Tea candidates are using (R) rather than (T) when they run for office. They are well funded and organized at the local level, where they have better control over monies, infrastructure decisions , rules and regulations and of course grant money used in Medicaid for the edge of society. This elite fringe have made inroads into control and power through local elections and state elections and if allowed will shut down the America we know today.
Great news!
I agree. The Tea Party is about fiscal responsibility and balanced budgets. I hope they are working at the local and state levels. Great news.
"Scott Walker has succeeded in dividing this state. He said he was going to divide and conquer,"
_____________________________________________________________________________
That is the Tea Party motto. Chaos is the beast. If you believe in a biblical anti-christ the Tea Party would fit it to a (T). Don't drink the tea. It is poison! They aren't holding public rallies, but make no mistake they are more powerful than ever. The crooks that destroyed our economy in 2008 repackaged themselves to the angry crowds and have deceived them yet again.
They are "big" corporate America. They support big brother government. War is "big" government business. Contractors/subcontractors build weaponry and guns. The NRA and Koch are an item. The war machine is the beast. The Patriot Bill and other war related laws strip our rights. My dad worked for the Defense Department. I know damn well what is going on here.
Rudy Yes thats the idea local control get the federal gov't . out of the states. Follow the constitution you might have herd of that piece of paper.
Or perhaps if they change things and balance the budget at a local and State level and the nation will follow....HAHA just kidding.... we have too many wars to finance and too many foreign countries we need to give billions to for that to happen.
If allowed?? You're darn right it's allowed! And it's about time! And as for "shutting down the America we know today", it is about time.
The nutty Tea Baggers are destroying this Nation, vote these mad people out !!!!!!
Excuse me, if not for the Tea Party we would be in a hell of a lot worse shape. Only ones with brains that have figured this out. Join us and you to can become educated.
All I needed to learn about the Unions, I learned from Jimmy Hoffa.......
Patriotic American usa that is kind of a oxymoron. You can hardly call yourself Patriotic based on your post.
Excuse me but we are in hell, starting with what "W" did to this Nation and right down to losers like Walker and his teabag buddies. PS - What's up with the name calling, are you "OK" ?????????
Teabagging Party is the worst thing to happen to this country since the CIVIL WAR....
Their arses need to be dumped BIG TIME and in a hurry before we go down the idiotic W.Bush route again...
All this talk of a recall and collective bargaining is very confusing. I still don't fully understand what is going on in Wisconsin.
Unless you live in Wisconsin, you shouldn't be involved in any way. This is supposed to be a state issue and state election. It is completely inappropriate that tens of millions of out-of-state dollars are pouring into Wisconsin. Wisconsonites, go out and vote! Everyone else, stay out of Wisconsin's local business.
Clotho,
the same can be said for the bus loads of union supporters that some how ended up in Wisconsin.
I am sure that the state of Wisconsin did kind of receive a wind fall from all of the dollars spent on this.
clotho....CAN IT!..this has to do with ALL OF US! If you think that this issue is cloistered within Wisconsin, you are even more dilusional than your post might indicate!
Is like this, The unions are Democrats, they negotiate with Democrats in office who give special favours then the donate to these same Democrats.
Is like this, The corporations are Republicans, they negotiate with Republicans in office who give special favours then the donate to these same Republicans.
alan_static:
Walker decided he was going to balance the budget when he took office. In order to do that, he had to make some changes that a lot of people didn't like. One of them was to make public employees (minus cops, firefighters, and others who keep us safe) pay a very small percentage of their wages to their own health insurance and pensions. Essentially, he made public employees do what the rest of us already do, but still at a lesser level. With that, he also took away their right to negotiate that part of their benefits. He did that so they couldn't just change it back the next year. He left them the ability to negotiate their wages, work conditions, etc. (That's the part the unions/democrats forget to mention!). Union leaders of course got mad at this minor change to their negotiating abilities, because they don't like losing any of their power. They created a huge stir about how Walker is hurting public employees and killing the state. They started this recall election, which has cost the state even more money. And now, here we are.
I hope this clears things up for you.
It's real simple, Alan. It's all about The best government money can buy.
You may have heard these before, but I'll toss 'em out anyway:
"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public." H.L. Menken
"America may be unique as a country in that it went from barbarism to decadence without touching civilization." John O'Neill
"An oligarchy of private capital… cannot be effectively checked even by a democratically organized political society (because) under existing conditions, private capitalists inevitably control, directly or indirectly, the main source of information." Albert Einstein
"People get the government they deserve." Alexis de Tocqueville
So, you see, People who don't read the news are uninformed and those that do read it are misinformed.
Wisconsin has had one democratic governor since 1986. So the evil unions had one of the longest contracts in history or it's not solely a democratic phenomenon. America loves a bogeyman and unions are it. As long as you can focus on the bogeyman, you are less likely to notice what's happening right under your nose.
The Koch Mob is pouring millions of counterfeit dollars into Walkers war chest, I guess they are getting desperate losing their Puppet !!!!!!
The only one appearing desperate is you, "Patriotic American U.S.A. You SCREAM one little outrageous, inflammatory remark after another ! Please post something of real substance, no "screaming" and see if you can put together more than one sentence at a time.
It's about "We'z the Tea Party and we'z support Scott Walker"!!!
It's NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!!!
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Heard you the first time you said it, Pig. It's as worthless a post now as it was on up the thread.
Obama-Biden 2012
rushisapig, As soon as they get the idiot out of the white house then we can work on some of the others and by the way Scott has done a good job if it was't for some Democratic judges he would have done a much better job.
Just how much inbreeding have you teabaggies done??????
the state has been divided by the radical unions who steal money from the workers to line their pockets while destroying the freedom and creativity of the employee, may the unions get what they deserve, pay your own way you are not special, do your job, Love America Or Leave It.
Wait until the 15 indictments hit WAlker. You peoplpe have sold your souls. If he has his way your wages will be next
Did you check out the site I sent you? NO what are you waiting for?
Jonathan Krall,
please provide a link for the 15 indictments, I have yet to find anything that cleary states what the actual charges would be.
Hey, don't start the "love it or leave it" crap. Just because someone doesn't like the direction they see this country headed doesn't mean they don't love America. You can hate the leadership and believe they can do better and voice your opinion without some yahoo telling you if you don't like it then just leave and find another country. This is MY country just as much as it is yours and I can be unhappy with the way I see us headed.
haha et al; Do you or have you enjoyed overtime pay? Do you or have you enjoyed weekends off? 40 hour work week? You can thank the unions whether you are a state union worker or within the private sector.
There is nothing stopping the worker from being promoted to management or being creative on the job. Nothing. Union workers "line their pockets"? What does that mean? Union workers make sufficient income to eat, house their families and perhaps have a retirement fund? That's lining their pockets? Lining pockets is normally in reference to someone taking a bribe or using their position of power in exchange for money (large amounts of money, not hourly pay).
Contracts and agreements with the state unions are disregarded. I fail to understand why, if there is a cry for cost cutting measures, why corporations aren't being asked to participate in solving the budget problems, ie corporate tax increases. Corporations are people too, after all.
America love it or leave it? It is the responsibility of every American to question those in office and it is the duty of those elected to answer to each and every citizen.
International arrest warrants have been requested for George W. Bush, Richard (Dick) Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, George Tenet, Condoleeza Rice and Alberto Gonzales at the International Criminal Court, The Hague, Netherlands.
"ithp.org/articles/warrants.html"
NinjaCodeMan... Thank you.
GoJoBiden - I know it means that Bush had to cancel his book tour in Europe and now hides in the U.S. like the war criminal he is. Cheney had to cancel a trip to CANADA for fear of arrest.
60 years ago this was a relevant comment. Along with safe working conditions and whatever credit you want to give unions. My husband has worked in a non-union construction job and currently works in a union state job. One of those failed so many OSHA regulations that they set up an office on location. Care to guess which one it was?
DICK Cheney - international war criminal. Is it too late to convict his old dried up carcass???
The unions, run by mobsters, the same unions that have priced this country out of international competition. Now they are helping deliver the coup de grace. America should watch this recall vote carefully. The thugs and their running dog lackey in the White House are managing to do what the Axis powers and the Soviet Union were not able to do.
unions have very little power, of the top ten doners to political parties two go for Dems. They are both unions, why do you think the Republicans want to destroy the unions. They want to take the money away from them. They have enough sheep to make it so.
Dale what color is the sky in your make believe world? The Unions are about all but gone the gop made sure of that and are just closing in for the kill. Mobsters running them, geeeze maybe in the old teamster days. If you would pull your head out of you butt and realize no one, I repeat no one in this country can compete with 1 dollar a hour slave labor, no saftey laws no environmental laws. But maybe thats what u think conditions in the U.S, should be for the people of the U.S.
That is no lie, companies that have union contracts do everything they can to find loop holes, or they just straight up violate the contract and it can take years going to court to get things straight.
Yes. Stupid unions ensuring people make more than minimum wage
public unions used to be good for America now they are trying to take us down. Union workers no matter how bad , always late drinking at lunch you still cant fire them. So what makes them try to be productive. Nothing!!!
Yes, silly middle class workers, wanting more than the minimum wage. Scott walker will teach em. You will all be at the mercy of the rich.... HA HA HA HA
I hope Walker takes these unions DOWN!!!!!
The days of Unions are over!!!! The days of special consideration are OVER!!!!!!!!!!
So the bankers crash the economy and the GOP has you believing its the unions. lololololololo People will believe anything!
Try posting this a couple of more times. See if you get different results. I believe this is the definition of insanity.
I believe this is the third time you have copied and pasted the same idiotic comment. Post some original thought or leave the discussion, @Pissedoffperson.
The truth is something Teabaggers do not like!
Doing something over and over and getting the same results is idiotics so why is reaganomic still being pushed? It has not worked? What did fox tell you to respond with?
P o P you appear to prove your own case. Nicely done!
Thanks trolls!! You have earned you pay today!!
so taxing the Rich and spending more money then is coming in has worked??
\
So 30 years of trickle down economics has worked?
subnormal;
So, you don't think the rich should be taxed? They already enjoy substantial reductions in comparison to those making under $100k. Social security/medicare caps out just over 100k of earnings, therefore someone making 500k annually is paying the same in FICA and medicare as those making less. Passive income (interest and dividends) are taxed at 15% at the top. The wealthy enjoy resources that this country has to offer just as much (probably more so) as does the middle class. They should be paying for the privilege of living here, the same as anyone else.
Let's go back to the tax code as it was under a great Republican President... Dwight Eisenhower.
Clinton raised taxes and the govt had a surplus and the debt was shrinking. See It worked!
Got to admit the idea that anyone that isn't part of the 1% who believes that the wealthy should not be taxed is stunning to me.
Pissed off person: Wasn't the surplus one of the reasons that GW Bush use to reduce taxes? So, I guess we should blame Bill Clinton for reducing the taxes on the wealthy. LOL
Well Said. Unions go to hell!! Quit throwing temper tantrums when you don't get your way, wa, wa, wa. Take a long hike off a short pier.
What is with you RWNJ's?
Your Governor Walker has to get the likes of Gov. Christie & Gov. Haley etc. to com to Wisconsin and help him govern....
...and you Wisconsin voters not only put up with, but accept this????
You will get what you deserve -
Nuff said!
Governor Walker is doing whats right for ALL of Wisconsin, not just a small few union workers. What happens when the bugdet is balanced? Everybodys taxes are lower. Unions are like the spoiled little child who has been giving everything and has never been told no. Wah, Wah, not fair we lost we want a recall. Now thier going to lose again and for the better of ALL of Wisconsin.
all of wisconsin? geo ...just like to make up facts don't you? Gut education spending when he promised to maintain it....while giving tax cuts to the rich. Lie about balancing the budget, when you use GAAP, which scottyfelon promised he would do, but of course didn't...lies lies....the budget is worse than when he came into office. Verified by the state of wisconsin and outside independent organizations...unlike you who make up facts and history. you are just another example of, "There is no bigger joke than a middle class republican."
Tuesday101, where did you get your facts from? Fact; the deficit in Wisconsin has been reduced by half, more according to the WI. state budget office. Fact: unemployment is down over 1% in WI., up in the rest of the country. Fact; state income taxes are set to go up 30% or more in California, New York, and PA.; Democrat controlled states. Taxes not going up in WI.. Fact: Wisconsin schools are still ranked among the top in the country.
Tuesday, "There is no bigger joke than a middle class republican."
The biggest and saddest joke of all is a garbage spewing, Parrot talk, nasty mouthed liberal like you that actually believes their own vitriol. Not all liberals are like that. You are the one that needs a fact check.
Thats what the dems cant stand its working. And people are leaving unions in droves as it should be when they are that out of control
Dems need to understand that them rich folks like Romney and underlings like Walker that prop them up RULE!!! We dum and stupids understands the rules of nature as god intended...
Hey geo #13, It's "THEIR" not "THIER" Smarty !!!
save America, get rid of obama and all the welfare food stamp loving democrat dictators who all want one thing, control the people, dethrone all the dictator democrats.
The presidential election is in November, not today. And dictatorships are extreme right-wing governments, while Democrats are generally left-wing. Finally, while George W. Bush greatly expanded the food stamp program at the start of the Second Great Depression (which continued under Obama), neither party wishes for food stamps to increase. Once unemployment is sufficiently reduced, food stamps will naturally contract. In the meantime, American families are able to feed their children because of the food stamp program. Almost everyone supports feeding American children.
haha is a prime example of, "There is no bigger joke than a middle class republican."
Hey, Clotho, there is no distinction between right-wing and left-wing dictators: they are identical and totalitarian.
Clotho, if you truly believe that "dictatorships are extreme right-wing governments", then you're either ignorant or deluded. Are you suggesting that regimes like the Soviet Union, North Korea, the PRC, Cuba, the Khmer Rouge, etc., etc. are "right-wing", or are you denying that they are/were dictatorships?
What I've never understood is how people say..get rid of the dictators...that in itself is dictation...every president/governmental body we've ever had has been a "dictator" or "leader" thats what we hire them to do.
save America, get rid of the teabaggers and all the corporate welfare loving republikan dictators who all want one thing, control the people, dethrone all the dictator republikans.
What I've never understood is how people say..get rid of the dictators...that in itself is dictation...every president/governmental body we've ever had has been a "dictator" or "leader" thats what we hire them to do.
Uhm, no. We elect presidents/governors, senators, and congressman to work together to run our government with free enterprise in mind. The words leader and dictator are not synomymous.
Dems need to understand that them rich folks like Romney and underlings like Walker that prop them up RULE!!! We dum and stupids understands the rules of nature as god intended...
We are the salt of the earth,,, we ignorant children of god. Them rich arr the newly chosen ones. Just let them take care of it all... They'll have mercy on us... gulp ... I guess
Sheniqua wants more food stamps.
Commonsenseguy1
yo mama gonna have to wait....
Union Officers should not be taking a political stand and attempt to sway their members one way or another. As a one time union member, I would not want my hard earned money given to union representatives to push a political agenda one way or the other. I don't give money to political parties nor would I want my money given to a union representative or organization to be given to a party of their choice. I would demand my dues back. I hope the good people of Wisconsin vote the correct way and keep a already elected governor (Governor Walker) as their governor. Wisconsin please do not vote on your pocket book but vote for the preservation of your great State to allow those in charge to make the corrections to keep jobs in your State and to balance the budget. When unions fight to keep inept, dysfunctional, irresponsible, drunks, addict, "I don't want to work, but please fight for my job" workers...There is a problem. I knew a union member from the steel mills in PA and he would go to Florida for union meeting to chase the women...Yes he was married to a beautiful wife and had children. This is where our union monies go. Let us all remember GSA. Yes I know they are not a union but the people in charge of GSA should not be working for the Federal Government. We have a Federal Govt. out of control.
And how many Republicans cheat on their wives? Too many to count!
elle, while cheating is never a good thing, I don't see how that has anything to do with this discussion. Care to explain your typical liberal incoherent rantings, or shall we move on?
elle - you are right. There's Ted Kennedy, Gary Hart, Bill Clinton, John Edwards ...
Oops, wrong party ... not the party that the press likes to dig dirt on.
Roger,
You left out "Reverend" Jesse Jackson, another Democrat who couldn't keep his pants on and fathered a child with another woman about the same time he was counseling Bill on the Monica controversy.
The good thing about all this is tomorrow, Wisconsin will go back to being just another fly-over state......
I will bet most people on here know little or nothing about unions.
I will bet most people on here know little or nothing about unions.
and you would most likely lose that bet. I was in a union for grocery workers in Pennsylvania. We received zero help from our union and our rep, and I mean absolute zero. Of course, this was 30 some years ago, so to be fair, circumstances might have changed since then.
It depends on the size of your union, but yeah I'm sure things have changed in 30 years. As a part time state worker in Michigan I was "part of a union", but did I "see" the benefits of that? No. A big part of being a union member is active participation. I chose not to be active and therefore did not see the perks, nor did I ever see or give feedback to my union representative. A lot of people join unions and expect their leaders to do all the heavy lifting and then complain when things don't turn out for the better. The more active one is the more favorable result they get in return; the same goes for public policy and politics. All I was saying in the above comment is that most people probably do not know anything about unions; how they function; their goals, etc. A lot of people use computers, but not very many know how they work. I took a labor history class in college and learned a lot about unions, but trust me I am not a labor/union expert. I still do not understand a lot about unions and probably never will, but from that class (and my own research) I gained the firm belief that they were very much responsible for what WAS "the American dream". I do not think it is coincidence that the American standard of living has fallen so much with the power of unions and labor representation.
The only thing the union is good at where I work is keeping people from being fired who should be fired. - People who are found sleeping on the job, people who miss a lot of time, that sort of thing.
wrong! I bet they do!
I worked at Dow Corning in Midland, MI in 1986. Trying to get anything done was like pulling teeth. You can't do this until someone else does that. It goes on and on and on.
There is no bigger joke than a middle class republican...and the people in Wisconsin prove this every single day.
Tuesday,
I guess there is no bigger joke than a 1%er democrat!
So, exactly what the hell did you mean?
What would you call a middle class conservative? Better watch out, you have a large number reading these comments. You would not want to continue your class warfare.
What is even funnier is the Rich Democrat. I will give more to the needy only if everyone else has too...
and I will say tax me more while disputing my corporate taxes, and paying myself a dollar (ok less than my Secretary) to avoid paying taxes.
oh yes and I also need a huge 6 figure income to help them, and to work on affirmative action.
And of course the best of all things, I have high cheek bones so my great great great grandfather has Indian blood, so I am actually and Indian.
And I love cats because they are so independent and can take care of themselves, while standing on the tallest building screaming about how so many people cannot.
There is no bigger joke than a brain washed Union thug & u seem to prove it every day!
wow a middle class republican voting against themselves and their family. There is no bigger joke than a middle class republican.
I bet the tax cuts for the rich/corporations will help you since you are neither rich nor own a corporation..and never will...but you think you are better than everyone else don't you? lol what a joke. Who do you think will pickup the tax paying when the rich / corporations are not paying anything? wow what a revelation.
Scottyfelon lied about education cuts. This is what the recall election is about. Scottyfelon lying. Gut education spending which your kids rely on. Yea, let's give kids a substandard education so the rich and corporations don't have to pay taxes.
Oh yea and Barrett/democrats/obama taking away your guns and deer hunting. The rich make this up and you all fall for it! There is no bigger joke than a middle class republican. The only thing taken away is AK47's and AR15's. Any of you who think these are hunting weapons are a joke, and the same people who would use grenades while deer hunting.
There is no bigger joke than a middle class republican.
Where to start... OK, lets address the guns first. Exactly when were the AR15s and AK47s taken away? I must have missed the government collection.
Tuesday101,
What exactly is your point?
Vote for a democrat who wants to raise taxes on everyone and everything so they can control who receives the money.
Complain about big business and wine and dine them to receive money for their campaign.
Have 40k 120k a plate fundraising dinners while they talk about how little the poor have.
Drive the big SUV until global warming becomes an issue and start driving 100k hybrids that get 20 miles to the gallon.
Complain about big oil non stop when they are a huge job creator and pay a large amount in taxes.
Say how we need more wind turbines to protect the environment while they are killing birds and bats.
Fight for injustices while they themselves receive huge salaries.
Complain about the rich and giving them a billion dollar stadium.
Fight for high speed rail that will never ever pay for itself. ditto with light rail.
Wants to move all people into high rise apartments to increase populations density. Have to subsidise the poor to live in them because the cost of living in these cities is so high no one can afford to live there except themselves.
Reward family members who own or have shares in technology that does not work in its present form.
need I go on?
subnormal: Interesting post! So, you agree with John D. Rockefeller that MONOPOLY is the NATURAL end of capitalism, and that, the working classes are obligated by nature and by God to take whatever wage is offered them without any right to demand higher wages and increased benefits.
Tjefferson,
What do I believe in.
Well that is an open ended question.
First off I do believe that if you are valuable employee you will be compensated for it. If you work hard you can still find reward. Having something given to you has little or no value, what you work for or sacrifice to receive has infinite value.
We cannot go backwards, we need to go forward.
You need to educate yourself to stay current, this can be done via classes, going back to school or your own research.
I personally strive to be a better person each and everyday.
A simple hello means a lot to other people.
We all can do more to keep our planet clean.
To take personal responsibility for my own life. To help my friends, family and neighbors.
Money is not happiness.
Learning from my mistakes and the mistakes of others.
Not expecting more from others than I would do myself.
Understanding both side of an issue helps you better define your thoughts.
That the individual tax payer is a better judge of what to spend their money on than the government. Ditto for companies.
That we do need a certain amount of regulation. Regulations can be more effective at the local level.
Depending on increased gambling for an increase in tax revenue is stupid.
The more you tax people the more tax dollars you need to have to help them.
Monopoly is not always the natural end, but it can be the end when companies either have to spend their profits right away or lose them to taxes. We do depend way to much on quarterly numbers.
To many people want everything right now.
In a healthy economy there will be competition for valued employees.
As I mentioned higher wages is fine, increased benefits are fine, but if it puts the company out of business no one wins.
I personally work for a smaller company, so I make sure that my job related mileage is accurate, I do not take customers out to lunch all that often. No golf outings, no big dinners, and no entertainment. I help them with their needs and sell them products and services.
This whole government has intentionally divided this country beyond repair.
Seems to me a big question in this race should be why Barrett doesn't want to be the mayor of Milwaukee. How many other elections has he been involved in? If I were a Milwaukee voter I would ask "do you want the job we put you in or not?"
Every election, I see this long lines of people waiting to vote... but I've never seen a line like that at a polling place in San Diego County, CA... is it that our turnout is that much lower, or is it that our elections are better run (more polling places per capita, longer hours, easier-to-get mail ballots, etc)? The longest I've ever had to wait to vote was about ten minutes, and that was an election where I was racing the closing time.
Sometimes I wonder if the long lines discourage people from voting.
Unfortunately, I see San Diego as a "red" (i.e. conservative) county, surrounded on all sides by blue dems (Los Angeles and San Fransisco) ... so the voters don't see a point in voting and throwing their efforts away trying to change insane fiscal policies and letting their votes get overturned by courts and other politicians. When my family votes, the register volunteers go through pages and pages of blank signature rolls to find our names. My vote appears to be worth about 10,000 votes or so, since so many do not even turn out. I'd rather the 10,000 came out and vote. I wish San Diego could secede from California, so we could get something done right.
Stop patting San Diego County on the back! Once again the jerk of a registrar of voters gerrymandered the percincts and people could not find where to vote. Did I get to vote at my polling place of the last 7 years closest to my home? No. Had to drive another half mile and find the voting booth. This SOB registrar is intent on keeping people from voting by confusing the polling places! All we need are poll workers with laptops and a pin number for each voter at each polling place to allow people to vote wherever they are on voting day. For that matter, a pin number for each voter and a vote on a PC at home would increase voting.
Seriously, Dude, seriously?? A lot more citizens benefit from unions than just their members. Didn't learn much in school, did you? Teachers that teach and nurture our kids and grandkids, police and firemen that protect us from harm. Construction workers who keep our roads and bridges safe to drive on. I could go on but if you don't get the message by now, it's unlikely your empty head will get it anyway. Unions may be a minority. But the BENEFIT OF UNIONS is enjoyed by the vast majority in your state and mine. In fact I'd say the BENEFIT OF UNIONS IS 100%.
margaret,
So, I guess you can say the same for the "mean, rotten, disgusting" corporations that hire these unions workers??
Really, so non union teachers and fireman and police and construction workers provide no benefit? Fail!
margaret, What are you talking about. Unions were established to help them get better pay and to bring safety to the work place. The government has created an overlap on the safety section...there is OSHA, EPA, numerous state, federal and local laws, Insurance companies do their own inspections and make changes along with most or all manufacturing companies that have special safety departments and teams to make corrections. It is in the best interest of companies to keep their people or employees safe. As a a government employee...I pay for most of my benifits, health, and other and get to choose which program I want or don't want. I know of union members that pay very little for these extra benifits which most have to put out a lot to get them. Perhaps if all people payed equally for health care...we would not have obamacare. Remember pelosi...just pass it and we will find out later what is in it!
How do these other people today benefit from unions?
Why don't these Unions pay for the retirement of their members, like private Unions do
Well put!!! I don't always agree with unions, but with out them corp. would be able to work you back into slavery, unions are why theres a minimum wage! And as much as I think being a republican really tells me IQ level has to be low! :~) You still need both parts to debate all issues, without either party, and without any union you would always have one group controling the majority, and telling you when you can eat and sleep, and how you'll be paid.
Want to see how your children 'benefit' from union teachers? Watch the documentary, "waiting for superman." The idiotic, money-grubbing teachers unions (which ONLY exist for the benefit of the teachers - NOT the students) will make you vomit.
What can I say one way or the other This country is going to feel my wrath! If walker wins Then I will post my YouTube video online and set for a wrath that this country has never felt all the @!$%#ing wisconsin people in my state will feel a big ripple or can I say earthquake that will be felt in every state all the way to the white house itself. If he does not win then Tom Barret will feel my wrath I will have my guns blazing on everything he dose and be watching his every move until he @!$%#s up one thing and I will be on his @!$%# until he dies of old age. Were I stand he is Diablo himself in a different form. He is pure evil and care not for anyone but himself. Those that can't see this are blind and sucked into his corrupted ways! One way or the other I will win. So you can stand with me or be my enemy I can care less. But if you are my enemy then stay clear from me or I will steam roll you. Because I destroy all evil that stands in my way! Believe it!
Margaret - you need a little education yourself. There is a HUGE difference between public and private unions. Public unions should never have been allowed to form in the first place. They are unionized against the taxpayers and it's an absolutely assinine concept. Only the truly greedy would support such BS.
The demonrats and unions hate when the voters send them a message! this vote is the greedy vs. the producers, the unions greed vs the tax payer. If the unions win, then Wisconsin is dead state walking, and the tax payers will be destitute. Bus, will leave, but the Gov. employees unions will suck the blood out of the poor, and the children. The public services union has become a parasite on the private sector.
Teachers are "Greedy" for making $50k a year, but CEO's 'deserve' millions? Bankers who helped sink our economy 'deserve' million dollar bonuses? The middle class and poor don't deserve quality services but the Rich need tax cuts so they can have more money?
You really need to re-consider your thoughts on what "Greed" is.
And No, the "Rich" are not the "producers" - they don't produce anything. They mostly sit on their butts, give orders and reap the rewards of the Labor of others. Put 10 Executives in a room and put 10 workers in another room - see which room Produces something other than paper.
Look at the wage and income and wealth gaps - it is the top 10% who is sucking the money out of the economy and keeping it up top, leaving less and less and less for the rest of us. They keep getting (and keeping) a higher and higher percentage of all the money that there is to go around - we 80% have less and less to live on.
Yet you cheer them on and stomp on anyone who dares to state the obvious - They are crushing us. Your 'crabs in a bucket' mentality is not helping the country nor the economy.
Save the United States - don't vote Republican!!
$50,000.00 A year with 3 months off. Pretty sweet job! Then why are my neighbor's kids so stupid?
bkearam the difference is CEO's work for private companies that make a profit and the private unions can ask for all they want, but teachers, policemen, firefighters work for tax dollars from the middle class hence public union so get off your soap box about the CEO's salary because if the company makes the budget number they get there salary and a bonus and the shareholders get money back but the public unions only suck the middle class tax payer dry, I love how the Union is calling this a war on middle class when it is them who have the war on the middle class because if they get there way we all would be paying 10% higher state taxes so union members can retire after 20 years and collect 60% or more of the three highest paying years, it seems to be most people seem to be retiring after 20 years so tax payers have to pay there retirement and then there replacement to do there job that they should still be doing but hey retirement kicks in at 20 years so if you started working at 25 you could retire with full pension at 45 years old and the tax payer is suppose to pay you for the rest of your life even if we will never be able to retire because of the high taxes so they can sit on there a**. I have neighbors who are both retired from Florida school system and have a combined income over $80,000.00 a year and are barely 60 years old, so everyday I go to work so I can pay my taxes so they can be retired this is the problem because it is the state paying there retirement which means tax payers, if the public union was paying there retirement funded by the union there would not be much of a problem but the number of public union workers who are retired on tax payer dollars is costing the state a fortune which is ubstainable and needs to be stopped.
Walker is a parasite on your a$$ and all of our a$$e$
Here's the misconception MSN is using. This election is not about trade labor unions. It is about public funded labor unions. This has nothing to do with the AFL-CIO, United Steel Workers Union (Which I once was a member of) or any other organized private business union. These are state unions soley funded by tax payers dollars. No tax payers dollars go to fund private trade unions. Why is MSN not adding this to the title, it gives a clear impression the WI governor is against Trade Unions. This has nothing to do with that. WI voters know this, my next question, will the democrats once again leave the state when this recall is defeated?
The Steel Workers Unions are the Biggest liars of all of the Unions. Heck they cnat even tell you where your Union dues go. I know Because we asked........Unions are all just a bunch of rip off period.
No, they are funded by state employee dollars. Once it has been earned it is no longer tax payer dollars, sorry it has been spent.
Tim, thanks for proving that this is NOT just about public sector unions but the first step in getting rid of all unions! You invalidated Betlyn's point FAR better than I could ever have.
Betlyn
Let's pack some diapers and blankie's this time, since the democrats are resorting to childish actions, we may as well treat them as such.
Oh, by the way, tax payers still paid their wages while they were throwing a tantrum in IL. Glad to see my money going to a good cause.....kicking and screaming while running away to mommy.
Tam -
WRONG! The pensions - which are much more generous than the private sector - are paid for by the taxpayer! The union membership pays very little in comparison to what they get back.
falconear, we know this about ending ALL unions. they are destroy american jobs. please help make our points. this is a missions to end all unions, state by state and rid the dems of funding. the dems will be left with the LGBT, black and hispanic vote. buh buy.
WRONG! That is part of their overall compensation package, which they bargained for with wage cuts and freezes. If you don't want to pay for education keep your kids out of public schools teach them your self or pay for private ed..
I have heard that one for over 3 decades TamL yet we still keeping having some of the lowest test scores compared to other nations and with all do respect not one teacher put even close in their pension relative to what they get back. Furthermore, even if I did put my kids in private schools there is something called TAX. It still goes to the public schools
I look at all the exceptional students, The National spelling bee, comes to mind. It seems that most of the kits that make it there are home schooled. Which is poo pooed by the teachers unions. My gripe is not so much with the teachers, but with the Adminastion, and the unions. Both suck the money and the life out of the education budgets. Good teachers deserve to be paid better, but the system teaches mediorcacy. I do like the ideal of vouders so parients can choose schools. The money would follow the student. With the Property tax going to schools, a parent that chooses religous, privite or someting other then the local public school still has to pay for their student , plus the taxes.
lol It's not like he broke any laws. How can they demand a recall just because they don't like him?
because he $uck$
Brilliant answer!!!! Make fun of the Tea Party, and check their stats. They do NOT look - or sound - like Obama supporters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ojd13kZlCA
TamL -
Home schooled scores are significantly higher than that of those schooled in public schools. Parenting has a great deal to do with achievement, it's true; and if a parent cares enough to homeschool, they're going to give it their best effort.
down with unions.......They have no place in this country anymore...all unions do are lie and steel money from hard working American people. My Family used to be all about the unions until we saw the truth.... O we the union will help with this and that until you ask for it then we will turn our backs to you and your family...Unions bite big ones.
I am in a plumbers union and they are there to help you against your employer but as far as the union is concerned you have no voice you do what they tell you and thats it no debate.
If they actually helped the union membership like they are supposed to, and used to long ago, their leadership would have to donate their time to the union instead of drawing a fat pay check.
They are the biggest corruption of thugs on workers and politicians. They created this out of their greed for more, and more, and more, and more until companies are bankrupt. Unions can thank themselves for the majority wanting to get rid of them, period!!
It's really amusing to see people who talk about how the laws on the books will protect workers so we don't need unions. If the unions are all eliminated what makes you think those laws won't be repealed? They certainly have persuaded a lot of people posting here that a lot of falsehoods about unions and the history of labor are true.
No, you actually understand nothing about unions. Like all human institutions they aren't perfect, but neither are the the spawn of Satan modern conservatives paint them as.
Preach on. Walker is leading exit polls :)
Walker enjoys a large exit poll - I bet he does. We the sheeples and our Teabaggin brethren sopport $cott Walker
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ojd13kZlCA
Democrats try to explain, excuse, and blame away loss of an election. Reminds me of two analogies, one based on fact the other on fable:
Fact:
A few days into the 1967 Six Day War Egypt was broadcasting far and wide that the Israelis were defeating the Arabs because Israel did not fight fair. It was inexcusable that Israel's intelligence services knew even which planes on the runways were decoys and which were real. The Egyptians complained that it was unfair that Israel flew around their radar and attacked Egypt from the "wrong" side. Oh, well.
Fable:
The fox picked the low-hanging grapes and ate his fill. Each time he came back to the vine, which grew up into a tree, there were fewer grapes within his reach. Finally, the fox was hungry but all the grapes were beyond his reach. After some thought, the fox came to the conclusion that the grapes were sour anyway and not worth the worry.
Recall Odumber in November!!!