Take inflation out of the mix by comparing the Debt as a percentage of our Gross Domestic Product (GDP).

In 1945 our National Debt was at 125% of GDP. Today it is at 100% of GDP.

Between 1945 and 1980 we paid the debt down to 37% of GDP but by 1992 it had nearly doubled to 69% of GDP. By the time Bush 43 took office it was down to 57% of GDP and when Obama took over it was back up to 77% of GDP, the highest level since the end of the Truman administration.

Republicans under Reagan and Bush 41 nearly doubled the National debt !!

http://www.supportingevidence.com/Government/fed_debt_as_percent_GDP_over_time.html

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

Katheryn Brandy: This is a telling story about how West Virginians would rather vote for a felon than a black man.

Maybe it has something to do with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aTf5gjvNvo

But with people like Ms. Katheryn Brandy, the knee-jerk reaction is it must be racism, which turns out is just another poorly executed dodge by the Left.

It's also a state where the Democrat governor did not vote for Obama. Nuff said.

Coal, oil and natural gas are crucial to the lives of West Virginians.

James Cress

This is a telling story about how americans would rather vote for a felon then our current president.

My reasons are very simple, he keeps blaming George Bush for his sort coming, while trying to say he is like President Regan,,, he actually is nothing like president Regan in fact is the opposite President Regan said Government is the problem and cut spending Obama has sent more then any President in history, and went against the will of almost all Americans!

.

I totally disagree with you.

I think he meant "Reagan Like" in respect to how Reagan's term was labeled the Reagan Revolution. Reagan inspired people so did President Obama with "Hope and Change".

That is a fact you cannot deny as evidenced by the number of people who voted for him.

Reagan's presidency has been termed the "Reagan Revolution," or the Age of Reagan in recognition of the political realignment both within and beyond the U.S.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Ronald_Reagan

Surely, you can blame GW Bush for not putting the 2 wars in the budget.

"That is why this budget looks ahead ten years and accounts for spending that was left out under the old rules – and for the first time, that includes the full cost of fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan," he [President Obama]said.

"For seven years, we have been a nation at war. No longer will we hide its price."

http://community.thenest.com/cs/ks/forums/thread/55667611.aspx

Let's not forget those marvelous tax cuts for the rich job creators who created no jobs!!!

Pride and Joy: It has nothing to do with race you say............. and then you start blabbering about race............. Nothing proud or joyful about your dumb remarks.

Ramboet... it was Kathryn that referred to 'a black man'!!!! P&J was just responding.... quit pandering... it looks silly on you! ;o)

Yesterday's primary in NC also tells a scary tale for Democrats. The swing state will now go to Romney. Cha - Ching! I am sure dems are scratching their heads and wanting to change the convention to another state. A resounding defeat of gay marriage in a right-to-work state where the democrat governor is opting to get out of dodge and a former democrat presidential candidate on trial. The results in IN and WI also bode doom for the dems.

Romney 2012.

OK Dennis, let's take the debt as a percentage of GDP.

The averaged annual deficit spending to GDP under Bush was minus 2% -under Obama, it is minus 9.27% .... over 4 times Bush's deficit spending!

Twist and spin all you want ... then sit on the facts and twist and spin all you want ... regardless Dennis, reality is reality.

Why do you deny reality?

Why do you defend the epic economic failure that Obama is?

Dennis - Don't you ever quit with the half truth stories? Who composed congress during the second term of Clinton's administration? What party was that? Not the party that was in charge between 2009 and 2010...

The GDP to Debt always appears worse when the economy is
slow and even worse when the economic growth is negative.

Tis the season and ramboet... backed up into a corner over the real issue and you throw out the race card! What's next? Did either of you read Kathryn's post? And didn't it beg for a response? A great example of liberal hypocrisy!

Despite the title of this article, there is no lesson to be learned here. You are talking about West Virginia, a state that is propped up by the federal government that is hated by those who voted for a convict with one hand while accepting their federal benefits with the other.

The GDP to Debt always appears worse when the economy is
slow and even worse when the economic growth is negative.

True, hence Bush's bad numbers at the first of his term dealing with the dot-com recession and the economic aftermath of 9/11.

It also "appears" worse when it is worse ... when you have an inept, clueless community organizer trying to run the economy.

Bob-180,

Deficits are derived from the budget however during the bush administration his budgets did not include the war cost while our President’s current budget projections did/do include the cost of our wars.

Why did you change the subject from debt to deficit? Is that because you cannot dispute my facts?

The scary reality for libs is that W. Virginia is the canary in the energy mine.

Obama's war on coal hit W. Virginia first.

Coal provides 50% of US electric generation. Wait till the rest of America gets a wiff of the poison gas of Obama's EPA in the way of "skyrocketing" energy costs after the election.

At least President Bush had budgets each year. This president hasn't had a budget in three years. Nobody ever votes for it.

You are correct Job1. A state that elected a KKK Grand Wizard Sen. Robert C. Byrd (D); the late Sen. Jennings Randolph (D); Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D). Ever ask yourself why would a state full of poor, dumb bigots would vote for a 1%er since the entire rest of the population must be the 99%?

Your remarks are so stupid it is beyond shame.

Our President has presented a budget every year –
Congress did not pass any.

Actually, President Obama has presented a budget each year he has been in office. That is a fact you can check.

Ben-636050

Yesterday's primary in NC also tells a scary tale for Democrats. The swing state will now go to Romney. Cha - Ching!

I would not count my chickens before they hatch. This my come as a surpise to you--Americans are sick of the GOP and Tea baggers. Tea baggers are on the decline.

Tea Party In Decline: Poll Shows The More Americans Hear, They Less They Like

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/tea-party-in-decline-poll-shows-the-more-americans-hear-they-less-they-like/politics/2012/04/16/38089

The Mann/Ornstein thesis tells us the extremism that’s come to define the contemporary GOP is principally responsible for the breakdown of American governance. Yesterday’s primary sends an unmistakable signal: Republicans only intend to make matters worse.

——————————–

http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/09/11615238-evidence-of-a-party-beyond-redemption?lite

I didn't say he didn't. I said no one ever votes "for" it. You know -- not even one democrat vote. Are your reading comprehension skills that low?

Tell that to Lugar Beverly. In fact keep believing the TP obituary you and the rest of the blind libs. I love it when someone under estimates their opponents.

Dennis, Dennis, Dennis ....

My numbers are from the Office of Management and Budget, Historical Tables, Table 1.3 ... ACTUAL OUTLAYS / REVENUE not nebulous (when you have historical context) budgets. Budgets are plans - I gave you reality.

Quit obfuscating reality.

during the bush administration his budgets did not include the war cost

Another thinkforDennisprogress obfuscation. Again ... I gave you actual spending .. not what Bush's budget / not what he planned to spend .... what was actually spent.

Quit obfuscating reality.

Why did you change the subject from debt to deficit? Is that because you cannot dispute my facts?

Could it be that ACTUAL DEFICITS are what produce ACTUAL DEBT?

Is that because you cannot dispute my facts?

Are you too dense to not realize that I have, or are you just trying to save face in front of the truly dense?

Dennis - again you are propagating and spreading more falsehoods. Liberals have latched on to the theory that Bush did not account for the wars in the budgets, but there are so many facts that are omitted in that theory. Here's some links for you to ponder over before you repeat the lie:

http://www.disorderedliberty.com/big-government-is-bad-government/economic-myths-spending-bush-obama-administrations/

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-deficit-in-pictures/

http://www.cafetax.com/2010/09/20/bush-vs-obama-spending-the-truth/

Stop spreading lies.

Bill T, it is the baseline from which all else springs. You can ignore it discredit it or insult anyone you choose but it does not change the fact. Its there if you want to see it. Step back and tell all of us what this president has done so different than any other president. Raise the debt ceiling they have all done it. Increase spending not really as you all like to point out he has not passed a budget yet has he. The house has just been running this country on extensions of past budgets. Deficit spending you bet, if you can't bring in more revenue and they won't pass your budgets that contain spending cuts, wow what a suprise. We all can sit here every day and spout our truths that fit our needs but that does not mean they are facts. Deny anything you want, beleive anything you want that makes you happy. It changes nothing fixes nothing and if Romney is elected he will not be able to do any better, how is he going to create 500,000 jobs in a month. He can't no one can. Unless he passes a large stimulas package oh now there is a thought. We have what we have and unless we start working as one with one goal we will not come out of this the same as when we went in.

Bob-180,

Why is it then when you add all of the Bush Budget deficits together they are much less that what was added to the National debt ? Don't forget he started with a budget surplus

It is simple – the wars were off budget.

Grandma -- you are out of your mind. Do you hear what you are saying???? Rich Trumka might take issue with you. The vast majority of people who work in the coal industry in WV are union members.

Your remarks are bigoted and ignorant and shows your total lack of knowledge. Why invalidate yourself by not knowing facts when making inane statements?

Dumb FUX -- actually not "nuff said". What exactly is your problem with Massey Industries headquartered in Houston, Texas and how does it relate to this story on West Virginia?

In 1947 Massey Industries began as a small precision grinding company and grew into one of the largest grinding houses in the Southwest during the 1960’s. As well as providing precision grinding services, Massey expanded their capabilities to include machining in the 1950’s. From these humble beginnings and substantial investments in equipment and people, we have evolved into a multi-level contract grinding and machining company.

Don’t allow the media to push false narratives about PBO and “black voters” when 100% of the blame goes to Republican/conservative voters who supported McCain in 2008 and will probably vote for Romney in 2012.

1. First, there were 15 counties with turnout of 40% or higher. 10 of them went for John McCain in 08; 5 for Obama. Of the ten that went for McCain in ’08, ALL of them voted FOR the ban. All of them were heavily white, ranging from 85%-98% white, with 9 of the 10 counties being 90% or higher white. Incidentally, the county with the highest turnout by proportion in the entire state was Mitchell county – (50-60% turnout), which is 98% white and went HEAVILY for John McCain (71%) in 08.

2. Of the five “high” turnout counties that went for Obama in ’08, THREE of them voted AGAINST the ban. They ranged from 14-21% black. The two Obama ’08 counties that voted FOR the ban were 35% and 36% percent black. They were Bladen and Hyde counties.

3. Total number of votes cast in entire state was 2,135,740. Of that total, 1,303,952 or ~ 61% were FOR the ban. Of the votes that were FOR the ban, 909 came from Hyde county, and 7412 came from Bladen county. Assuming ALL the black people in both counties showed up and voted for the ban, that would yield 318 “black” votes from Hyde county and 2,668 from Bladen county. So the heaviest black turnout in these two counties would yield a total of 2,986 votes (which is an overestimate, since I’m assuming that 100% blacks showed up).

4. Now if all black voters from these counties were to vote AGAINST the ban, shifting these 2,986 votes out of the “FOR” column and to the “AGAINST” column, we would still have an enormous deficit in the “AGAINST” and the ban would have still passed as it did – and by the SAME margin! So the black voters in these two counties would have made absolutely NO difference in outcome – whether they voted for or against because their numbers are simply too small!!!

5. The county with the highest population in NC is Wake county – went for Obama in ’08 and is ~21% black. Wake county voted AGAINST (57%) the ban.

You can get all this information and more here.
http://results.enr.clarityelections.com/...
http://www.usatoday.com/...

So the BOTTOM LINE is that the Amendment 1 passed due to an overwhelming support from White, Conservative Republican voters - which is consistent with what we know about discriminatory laws of any kind in the this entire country.

The Media however, in trying to pit Blacks and Gays against each other, and in trying to turn the LGBT community against President Obama has decided that it's in their best interest to keep the focus of same-sex marriage as much as possible on Black voters, and on President Obama's "evolving" comment (never mind that President Obama came out AGAINST the ban long before election day!) I saw this tactic from a mile away, from the moment NBC decided to run away with VP Biden's comments on MTP Sunday, I knew the media had received it's marching orders from Karl Rove, to use the NC Amendment election in an attempt to swiftboat the President with the LGBT community.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/09/1090039/-The-Media-s-Scapegoating-of-Black-Voters-President-Obama-in-NC-Amendment-1-Vote

Brian,

Don’t forget that in the data you provided (graphs) the 2009 numbers (projections) are for FY2009 provided by Bush and passed in 2008.

The BOTTOM LINE is that NC has proven all the polls wrong just like California and 30 some other states. LOL. Go use your dot connecting jigsaw puzzle if it makes you feel better ROFLMAO!!!!!!!

P.S. -- the Dailykos sucks. It's a rag with no foundation IMO. But keep telling yourself you'll believe those lies, believe those lies. The Dailykos is full of spin a%%holes.

Why is it then when you add all of the Bush Budget deficits together ...

Still going with 4-12 year old "budgets" over what was actually spent?

Thanks for answering the question about how dense you are.

It is simple – the wars were off budget.

Let's try another way, one last time ...

Bush did not budget for the war. Are you suggesting that none of the soldiers that served in Iraq have been paid ... none of the suppliers for gas, guns, amoo, planes, tanks etc. ..have been paid yet .... bescause it wasn't in the "budget?"?

Gosh .. you think we would have heard about that.

Nope Dennis ... we borrowed money and paid them.

That is why I actually used ACTUAL OUTLAY AND ACTUAL DEBT ... not budgets.

Sorry it is over your head.

See ya later

I didn't forget that Dennis. Think logistically for once. The military is a force that demands immediate payment for their services. When new munitions are purchased, they are paid for within 90 days by the federal government. There is a huge military amount in the budget as there should be since it's one of the mandates of the Constitution. Within the military budget, allocations were made for the expenses of the wars. Could there have been errors in the amounts? Sure there could have been... but the budgets definitely included not only the standing military, but the active military expenses.

What it boils down to is a weak talking point on the liberal side. Something that shouldn't be pushed or even debated because the way the government accounts for it's expenditures is always jello... If it weren't, we wouldn't have deficits.

Breaking News!!!!! Obama endorses same sex marriages. Now wasn't that predictable. NC is lost now for sure. The presidency is lost for sure. The Christian right will definitely vote for a Mormon over one who advocates breaking God's law. There will be many blacks and Hispanics moving in that direction as well.

Brian,

You can’t have it both ways. You rail on the fact that year after year Democrats voted for the War Authorization funding then you claim the funding was part of the budget. Pick one or the other.

Something I came across very recently... to all you liberals that are actually believing Obama is going to win in November... James Carville doesn't side with you... If you know who the speakers of the democrat party are, you know who James Carville is. He's concerned that Obama might actually lose this November... so when one of your spokespersons is sounding an alarm... I will forever discount a First Read poster from their prognostications.

Dennis - You were the one that made the silly claim that the wars weren't included in the budget, thereby alluding to the presumption that Obama paid for Bush's shortfall. That is an untruth. Like I said, the government accounting is like Jello... but you can't make the claim that Obama paid for 9 years of wars after he became president when the wars were being paid for all along, to try to share the blame for wracking up almost 6 Trillion dollars of additional national debt... after all, this is why you liberals state it... I've heard it all before. It was a lie the first time it was said and it's a lie now.

The way you and other liberals make that claim it completely obfuscates the truth... wars are paid for as they happen... or they would never be executed due to lack of payment (funding). At the end of the fiscal year, a deficit will show how much underfunding the government screwed up on, or didn't have the money for. We know Bush had budget shortfalls... especially in the last 2 years of his presidency when the democrats took control of the house and senate.

I never made that claim - I said Obama put the war funding in his budget proposals, unlike Bush.

Bush funded the wars with seperate funding bills - off budget.

Dennis - If I had half an inclination, I would go back in time to posts where what I said was written. I don't really care if Bush included something in his budgets or not. At least his were approved. It doesn't matter if the funding was included in the budget or not, it still showed up at the end of the fiscal year as a deficit. It was accounted for, paid for and there is no contention at all.

NO! It shows up at the end of the year as debt.

A deficit or surplus is the difference between a proposed budget and projected revenues

Ramboet - your comment nailed it. Pride and Joy (a.k.a) Hate and Lies. I have never seen white Americans dissect a black man's race so thoroughly and inaccurately...and for WHAT purpose???

Whatever happened to the "one drop rule" instituted by our Founding Fathers a.k.a. (1/32 African blood quantam considered black) in our beloved Constitution??? ...oh they forgot about that?, yet they apply it everyday to anyone whose skin has a natural tan. So they believe and argue Mr. Obama's Kenyan grandfather's BC from somewhere in Kenya allegedly claiming "Arab", but DON'T believe Mr. Obama's American birth from Hawaiian court records??? WOW, their own arguments refute their logic!!! Can't make this stuff up!

I guess Ms. 'Hate and Lies' also claims to be a follower of the teachings of Christ. I am sure His LOVE for ALL people regardless or race, color, sex, age, etc., even our Potus...is under there somewhere.

Regarding the W Virginians, many of themselves admit Mr. Obama's race is a factor in their vote. However, they justify it. (culture, tradition, family upbringing, no experience with blacks, etc...) They are not ashamed and seemed downright proud of it. So no need to refute something they wear with pride.

God Bless our Potus, Our Military and America!

Did MSNBC or any other news media fail to examine the West Virginia results in detail?

Yes, Obama only received 59% of the Democratic votes but that was still 30,000 more votes than Romney got! (102,028 versus 72,818).

And the infamous felon almost received as many votes as Romney! (69,766 versus 72,818).

So how does that end up being bad news for Obama, when he had many more votes than Romney?

On the Republican ticket, Romney received 72,818 votes; Rick Santorum received 12,667; Ron Paul got 11,642; Newt Gingrich attracted 6,581; and Buddy Roemer earned 1,071.

On the Democratic side, Obama received 102,028, or 59 percent, while Texas inmate Keith Judd surprised many with 69,766 votes, or 41 percent.

People that aren't going to vote for Obama are going to vote against Obama.

OK, so what?

Another phoney baloney story to try to sow doubt out this country and our leader.

It's West Virginia. They voted for the guy with the mullet. Look at the picture!!!!

Brian -

A deficit or surplus is the difference between a proposed budget and projected revenues

(That should probably read ... A budget deficit or budget surplus is the difference between budget outlay and budget revenue.)

But, what more can you say ... the guy literally cannot grasp the difference between a deficit and a budget deficit.

Great comments, btw.

Before some liberal on this site about this story says the same stupid thing said on the other one. You did not get us the 40 hr week, overtime etc. You did not fight those battles. My parents did and it was not you who got the kids out of the mines. It was the mineworkers of Pennslyvania and West Virginia. The same people who grandchildren you are trashing on these sites because they don't agree with you. The mineworkers of West Virginia ended up in a shooting war with the mineowners backed by the government of the US. Do not take credit for the blood they spilled.

James Cress

This is a telling story about how americans would rather vote for a felon then our current president.

Your post is correct up to this point, and then goes off the cliff. The only thing this indicates is the ABO irrational hatred among the rightwing. Voting is not just a privilege, it is also a responsibility to be taken seriously.

Pride and Joy -- ... BO has more Arab blood than African.

Oh no you didn't! Your post is being voted inflammatory. That is the biggest @#$%&! steaming pile, Hater @#$%&!, ignorant @#$%&! since, okay since one of Bill T from USA's post the other day. Aside from the idiocy that Dems frustrated with the president would vote for an inmate--in W. Virginia (riiiight)--your link is to a ringtone website!

This forum is for meaningful debate, with differing views allowed, but NOT hateful @#$%&! conspiracy theories. Please take you sorry @#$%&! out of this forum.

When I first read the story this morning, I had to wonder how a convicted felon, still serving time in another state, even got onto the ballot as a presidential candidate. Who signed enough petitions to get him on the ballot? Were they registered Dems or cross-overs who switched parties just long enough to get this guy on the ballot? It shows what type of people live in WV, I guess. I won't vote for ANY criminal (convicted or otherwise), which means I don't vote for any politician. I cast a NO VOTE vote.

The felon has been on the ballot for the past 20 years. The difference this time was that he actually got some votes LOL!!!!

Katherine

This is a telling story about how West Virginians would rather vote for a felon than a black man.

The Democrats of the state overwhelmingly voted for Hillary over Obama.

I think you need to quit wearing the glasses with the everything is racist tint in them.

By far the issue was coal. Coal is the big cash crop in West Virginia. Obama clearly wants rid of the use of coal altogether. Truthfully, Hillary supports the same goals, except being liberal instead of progressive like Obama, the phasing out of coal would take many years, where with Obama with the stroke of a pen a few weeks ago, 23 Coal Powered plants are to be pulled off line without any plannning and build up for replacement power.

You need to give people more credit that they truly deserve. When you do, maybe you will start to see that they are a whole lot smarter than you think.

All it shows is that there are more retards in West Virginia than we thought. I'm beginning to think there is a Koch Bros/Tea Party biological warfare lab somewhere that has been testing the dumbfux virus to spread about the nation to make sure the repubs get their needed votes, probably in West Virginia, and some of it must have leaked out. Either that or they have been testing it on the population. Or maybe that's where they originally obtained it and are only trying to mass produce it?

So get this.

OJ Simpson ran for President in West Virginia and had Charles Manson as his running mate. The good folks of WV voted for OJ and Charlie, for they hated Obama so much.

Jesus said unto him, "Satan what the HELL are you grinning at?!"

And the devil replied, "My Lord I love STUPID WHITE PEOPLE!"

Seeing 41% of the vote go to a convicted felon isn't news. It simply shows the republicans will stoop to any level to get more criminals into the whitehouse in hopes of destroying the nation for the honest hard workers and wiping out the constitution completely for their american Taliban platform party members.

What a bunch of lowbrows. To be so stupid and vote for a convict.

West Virginia state motto: Thank God for Arkansas and Mississippi!

One in every five West Virginians between the ages of 19 and 64 has no health insurance. Moreover, 61 percent of West Virginia's uninsured are employed with 30 percent working more than 40 hours per week.

On average, there is a domestic-related murder in West Virginia about every 14 days. In fact, one out of every three murders in the state is related to domestic violence.

West Virginia hospitals already provide more than $360 million in uncompensated care annually to the uninsured and underinsured. More than 22 percent of state women are without health insurance, ranking West Virginia 48 th in the country.

West Virginia women rank No. 48 of 51 states, including the District of Columbia, for their overall health and well-being. This study included rankings on mortality from heart disease No. 49, lung cancer No. 48, diabetes No. 48, and breast cancer No. 33; and the number of women who are obese, 25.8 percent, and who smoke, 27.2 percent.

On average, women in West Virginia earn only 50 cents for every dollar earned by men. Seventy percent of all working women make less than $10,000 per year. Only 6 percent of all working women earn more than $25,000 per year.

• Over 23% of the families in West Virginia do not have fathers present in the home.
• Over 28% of the babies born in West Virginia are born out of wedlock.
• Over 58% of teen births in West Virginia are out of wedlock.

West Virginia ranks 49th in median family income. No surprise that numbers 41 through 50 are red states.

West Virginia ranks 49th in per capita income

According to the Science and Engineering Readiness Index (SERI), created by the American Institute of Physics, West Virginia ranked 49th in the nation for science education, which the Institute labels “far below average.”

The comprehensive report grades all 50 states and the District of Columbia according to data from national test scores, state education policy, charter school regulation, and other benchmarks of quality. Additionally, the report discusses what resources are being wasted, what students are being left behind, and what administrators, parents, and teachers can do to make a difference in education. This year, Massachusetts beat out all other states while West Virginia placed last.

"Lessons learned"?

Give it up MSNBC, Democrats didn't learn when they were removed from Kennedy's seat, they didn't learn when they were dealt the biggest party flip since WWII in the 2010 midterms, they didn't learn when Obama stood next to Mexico president Calderon criticizing Americans... and they aren't about to start learning now.

Devils son...

How do these West Virginia birth statistics compare with oh, say Detroit or Chicago?

Dems have problems in places other than WV if you just look around and the truth is it is too late now, all you can do is hope the pounding in November is not overdone.

Just because bigots and hatemongers on the right want to associate and link this individual to our current President, doesn't mean it is relevant in 2012. There are more criminal activity on the supporters of the right, than any left-leaning person.

we dont want a token of the rich obama or super rich romney.both are job exporters.we are not interested in any candidate that wants to perpetuate or widen the divide between the rich and the working people.keep it up the middle class is boiling mad.you want a class war your going to get it and rich will pay in blood

Can't expect much from a facts optional, racist state, that believes ignorance is a virtue.

West Virginia sent a clear message - and - is a lesson for the rest of us.

West Virginia prefers felons for government office - they tend to vote Republican.

Yesterday's primary in NC also tells a scary tale for Democrats. The swing state will now go to Romney. Cha - Ching! I am sure dems are scratching their heads and wanting to change the convention to another state. A resounding defeat of gay marriage in a right-to-work state where the democrat governor is opting to get out of dodge and a former democrat presidential candidate on trial. The results in IN and WI also bode doom for the dems.

Hmm wasnt WV listed as a likely Obama swing state, in the MSN article that came out about a week? We all see how likely it is to swing in Obamas favor, has likely as the US Presidential election..

Actually, I think that all this says is that 41% of the people in WV are complete morons! LOL

Lesson learned? West Virginia and the Republicans have some freaky people. If you don't believe it perhaps you should look at the picture and understand the real jist of this article. Republicans might like this, thinking that it hurts Obama but you are the people backing the freaks. Just look at the picture. FREAKS!

• OK People please stop trying to make this a racial issue. The facts are that the voting went hand in hand with how reliant the area is on COAL. The more reliant the area was on COAL the worse the president did in that geographical area. The president has put restrictions on COAL so this all makes prefect sense.
• The media does a fine job of making everything a racial issue without our help folks!!!

old fat guy-1144960

Devils son...

How do these West Virginia birth statistics compare with oh, say Detroit or Chicago?

Probably the only way W. Virginia can slightly look better is to compare the entire state to a city. Or maybe bubba fat guy thought Detroit and Chicago were states. LOL

96ws6,

What this really shows is the poorest, most poorly educated, most dependent state for the federal tit is full of poor, poorly educated people, easily led by ads promoted by COAL company PACs. The PAC ads act like Obama is out to cripple their industry, when in fact, he is trying to require that coal burners actually live by rules agreed to years, and in some cases decades, ago. What is really killing coal is NATURAL GAS FRAKKING.

And the Obama administration, through the EPA, is in court to force the well frakkers to tell us what potential poisons the frakkers pump into the rock, and potentially into our water supplies. But, Big Oil and Gas is telling us that Obama is just trying to keep gasoline prices high. And the people of WV will believe that too.

Bill - If you are going call all of us West Virginians poorly educated, it would have better impact if could spell fracking correctly. Not once but three times! You do know that the checkmark with abc above it is a spell checker?

That's what you got out of this article?

mwwsr: That's what you got out of this article?

tek says he's an "elite", so you better listen to him.

Just for giggles, ask him about "Independents" and "Democratic leaning" scientists.

Tek...You forgot the other federal subsidies Texas receives thru military bases, NASA and other associated "national defense industries." What say we pull those and then look at their balance sheet.

Guess JAS still has an issue with science..Then again "facts" were never her strong suit since she's spent so much time on the street pimping for the GOP.

tec is skewing the numbers... He's looking at the total fed employees back when Reagan was president and trying to compare them to Obama. Reagan built up the military to 2,176,000 while Obama's military's number is 1,602,000. Obama's federal employee's numbers are definitely up since GWB left office...

teknishan

And yet...Reagan swelled the ranks of federal employees and Obama has trimmed them.

Actually, federal employees have increased under Obama.

http://www.opm.gov/feddata/HistoricalTables/TotalGovernmentSince1962.asp

How crazy is that, right?

1987 3,030 2,213 58 TOTAL 5,301

2010 2,776 1,602 64 TOTAL 4,443

Reagan had more of all stripes.

Main point is the amount of federal employees has no correlation with national debt growth. Bush trimmed back a lot...and payed to outsource to contractors instead. We didn't save money that way.

@John, Tucson, AZ

dude. you are supposed to cite sources that SUPPORT your claim. not the other way around.

Today just isn't BHO's day... First he is forced to support gay marriage and now a Jailbird polls 41% to Obama's 59% in WV Dem primary. Just think if a yellow dog had run, he may have beat Obama in West Virginia. They are very astute in that state.

Obama still had around 30,000 more votes than Romney, who BARELY got more votes than the felon.

Obama has been a huge disappointment... his main goal seems to be to divide the nation rather than lead them to unity. This Democrat voted for anybody BUT Obama in the primary!!

TNSEVOL -- Just a little education to help you stop looking stupid. In WV, democrats out number republicans by 5-1. Second there were democrat primary races that were key and brought democrats to the voting booth. So, analyze that and you will see that there will always be five times the democrats voting in WV than republicans. So the numbers are not what you say are evident. What is evident is that a heavily democrat, union state will vote republican for president.

Kathyedina. Glad you started paying attention to the man behind the curtain!

I must have missed something, where's my hand out? MSNBC is nothing but a bunch of @!$%# stirrers.

Obama's legacy will be that he has passed Jimmy Carter as the worst President since Woodrow Wilson!

Romney's will inherit a lot of obama baggage next year! But I think the new Congress will be more cooperative with Mitt! Romney 2012! Real change! Positive Change!

It has to be that Jimmy Carter is breathing a sigh of relief these days. He will no longer be considered the worst president of all time after Obama is ejected from office.

Bill T. are you saying that anyone who disagrees with you is not an American, who is dividing this country!!

Republicans... handing down ignorance from generation to generation. These old farts don't understand that when the GOP is talking about entitlement reform they are talking about getting rid of social security and medicare.

Jim you obviously studied your presidential history unlike many.

worst President since Woodrow Wilson!

Some of Wilson's Stellar accomplishments.

His voluminous expenditures including WW 1 and the League of nations (failed) swelled the federal budget from $742 Million to $18.4 Billion in 7 years were rubber stamped by congress until 1920 when the republicans.

To pay for it all he increased taxes on the business and rich with what he thought would be enough to cover everything but the war, and the ugly truth of diminishing returns on Tax increases reared it's ugly head causing the deficits to be even worse. Worse yet, in the 6th year of another tax increase, many businesses closed their doors in 1920 causing unemployment to rise from 4.9% to over 9.5% in less than 1 months. Some say 12% unemployed was the real number.

After being sworn in as president, up went signs on the white house bathrooms for "white" and "colored". The army, which had been partially desegregated by Lincoln, was divided into white and colored units.

But never mind all that and the other bad decisions, the most important thing was the founding of the League of Nations.

Bill T: And just what are Americans taking the country back TO?

And those who say that Obama is the worst president ever or the worst president since Wilson or whoever else you want to name don't know much history.

Hey dB,

Just two presidents for you to consider, Herbert Hoover, who was so bad the congress went Democratic for forty years with the publics blessing, and GW Shrub , who led us to the edge of the next great depression.

You seem to think that electing Romney will be the end all (even though the ideologically conservative hate him). Democrats learn from the nasty Republicans and will block any and everything you try to do as payback. Much like what has been going on since 08, obstruct, fillibuster, abandon your previous positions just to derail, without any constructive initiatives. You may indeed steal this next election as your underhanded tricks and your Federalist Society Supreme Court has allowed you to do in the past and now with unlimited funding from corrupt corporations could again. I smell another turd blossom and it stinks to high heaven. As usual the American people will be the losers from this decidedly Republican tactic, but make no mistake, the Republican base keeps shrinking year after year and you can only obstruct for so long before you will lose. Whether your policies will return Congress to the Democrats for another forty years is up to you right wingers. Right now your hatred is all encompassing, and before too long it will be back at you. I am disgusted with what passes for Republican strategy nowadays. Ya'll are the divider-in-chiefs. It is clear that you would not elect even your hero Reagan nowadays, too liberal.

Jim Silver,

Gee, and I thought that was Warren Harding, who played poker in the White House with lobbyists and and financiers who would later be implicated in the Tea Pot Dome scandal. Oh, and a Republican. Or perhaps, another Republican, Herbert Hoover, who followed Mitt Romney's non-interventionist tactic to the start of the Great Depression. Mr. Hoover was so effective and well-liked that he had communities named after all over the country. Look up "Hooverville".

DB Akron,

The Army was NOT desegregated after the Civil War. In fact, black troops, known as Buffalo Soldiers, were sent to the western frontiers to fight Native peoples, under exclusivly WHITE officers. Any remaining black troops became officers valets, wait staff, cooks and hospital orderlies. There were a few Black officers, a few even attended West Point (as vitual scorned monks) and were then assigned to work under white officers in the Engineers. The Tuskeegee Airmen represented the first real desgregation in the Army, black men in combat as officers, acting with some autonomy. Truman issued the orders to "fully" desegregate the Army, but it took the pressures of the Korean Conflict to implement.

nomoresameo. That was my thoughts exactly. it's really sad to think that so many people think voting is a game and voting for a felon is funny. I don't care whether people are democrats, republicans, or independents, it's time people woke up and started acting like grown ups. All this name calling and hooting and hollering because it appears "your side" beat the "other side" is just plain stupid. try thinking about what will really happen when your votes are counted. The current house of representatives is a good example of what happens when you vote for ideology over common sense.

The current house of representatives is a good example of what happens when you vote for ideology over common sense.

Perfectly stated Ramboet!

What it actually says is that President Obama is an epic failure.

nms: What they did say according to their votes, is that they are so ignorant that would waste their votes on a felon serving a federal prison sentence as their poster child of how they would like to see this country run.

What it said is that Mr. Judd should have demanded a debate with Mr. Obama. If he did that, Judd may have won.

Add to that, 20% of democrats in North Carolina voted for "no candidate preference", rather than vote for Obama.

Think they're going to give him their support in November?

ignorance is ignorance and you can't fix stupid. Just plain stupid nothing more

No matter how the liberals call the people of W. Virginia stupid... they are still speaking of democrats. GOTCHA!

Oh Brianb you got me it stings so bad. One problem though WV can't decide if they are democrate or republican now can they. One minute they vote democrate and the next republican. So are they stupid because they vote republican or because they vote democrate. Maybe because the sit on the couch and take handouts. Maybe because they breath all that coal dust or is it because they are all closet gays. Paint it any color you like, what ever fits your need to score you points. Its the Gotcha mentality that got us here, small minds like yours.

Tis the season - stop trying to cover it up. It was the democrats that voted for the convicted felon... and the really dumb democrats that voted for Obama.

Go tuck your tail between your legs somewhere else. Crying boo hoo only makes you look weak on THIS board.

Brianb, stupidity is color blind and you prove that everyday as the poster child. I stand by what I said if the shoe fits wear it.

It says alot about the people of W. Virginia on many levels (& their supporters on this string). I am sure they are very proud of themselves!...and without one shred of embrassment on the national scale. I am sure the world sees them for their brilliance as well! Not to mention their Christian Family values exhibited by their choice of convicted POTUS elect. West Virginia doing America proud!

God help us!

All I learned is that Brianb's cousin Keith has a wicked mullet...

:D

• Actually WV is heavily reliant on COAL and the president is not popular there because of the restrictions he has put on COAL. It is not about RACE it is not about people thinking they are being FUNNY, it is not about people being STUPID. It is about people being pissed off about his policies. BTW I do not line in WV but I think lumping a whole state as stupid like some posters are doing shows the POSTERS ignorance.

Tommy.... you are right! I can't believe W. VA had so many idiots willing to vote for Obama given what he's done to the country for the last 4 years

They are a sad bunch Tommy.

While West Virginia traditionally elects Democrats to statewide office, it is culturally conservative. West Virginia’s relatively poor residents rely heavily on pork projects from the government, as well as programs like Medicare and Medicaid. (A recent USA Today analysis found that West Virginia gets 28 percent of its income from government programs, more than any other state. Also, it’s population is second oldest in the nation, behind Florida.)

They are the poster child for the "Screw Me! Campaign.

"Government pork is what's keeping any money flowing into our state. I say cut out all government spending.I want our state to go under."

"Most of us are elderly and depend upon Social Security checks. But I say slash Social Security, let's see if I can survive without it."

"Several in my family have chronic illnesses and we have no insurance,so we depend upon Medicare and Medicaid. But I say get rid of it, I always wanted to be forced to depend upon home remedies."

They have among the highest debt per capita, among the highest percent of the population without health insurance,among the highest percent of the population below the poverty line and among the highest unemployment.

This is the perfect state for the Romney/Ryan budget and the population is fully behind it.

Oh my gosh you guys. Please see post 5.13 This is about the presidents policies that hurt the state of WV. Many were trying to make a point. Some did not know the other guy was a felon and it was a case of "anybody but Obama". Maybe some thought there is little difference between a crook and a crook that got caught too for that matter.

A sad situation Amy where people are not able to see the candidate who would truly be serving their best interests.

Amy, that is because folks want to be given an opportunity to be self reliant, and dont want to be lifetime dependents on handouts they didnt earn themselves. They have pride and believe in themselves.

It is something you dont understand, being a lover of government 'programs' and handouts.

Maine Gov LePage recently said, he will always help the disabled and elderly, but for those able bodied, get off the couch and get a job. Amen to him!

Steeler: This is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Stupid is as stupid does.

BIV, if they had pride and self reliance they would have already gotten of the couch and got that job, you know the one the job creators are providing.

Just how is Obama serving their best interests? By following through on his campaign promise to make coal plants so cost prohibitive no one will be able to build one, expand one, or improve one?

That goes over really well with people who depend on coal mining for their livelihoods. Are you implying that they would be better off without jobs, gaining their sustenance from government handouts?

Same with those employed in hydraulic fracturing. Most of them understand that, should Obama get re elected, their jobs will go the way of clean coal plants- that is, gone. Should they also be happy to vote for someone who wants their jobs gone- but will give them government checks, instead?

Your disdain for those lower on the socioeconomic ladder is palpable- as is their contempt for your way of thinking.

Poor they may be- but they have pride in self sufficiency. They are not interested in your handouts- and they will make their rejection of the "better life" you envision for them at the ballot box.

No Joe, if they are not interested in hand outs then why do they take them, they are not being forced to and like you all say just go get a job no problem right. When do we start thinking about air quality, water quality, ground pollution, when we can't breath, drink the water or stand on the ground, when is the right time for that No Joe. Or do you think we can do this forever and never pay a price. When is the right time NO JOE!

I think there's a huge silver-lining here.

Maybe the republicans MIGHT get to actually do all the things they said they want to.

Think about the sudden reduction of republican voters as they all died from starvation, exposure and disease as they cut Unemployment, WIC and Medicare/SS.

It's not democratic states who are reliant on federal pork, after all.

You know ten, I have said all along that I am willing to take whatever comes just to be able to watch the dimwits get exactly what they are bellyaching for. I would so enjoy hearing the cries from the Tpubs when their SS, Medicare, Medicaid etc. comes to an end. Some kids have to be allowed to put their hand on the stove before they learn they really will get burned.

To you who are basically saying the Democratic party is the party of handouts and these people receiving the handouts are stupid for not voting for the Democratic party. :

I'm sure this is difficult for the folks saying this to understand but some people take pride in self reliance, and some people getting the handouts are smart enough to realize that the gravy train they are riding on is unsustainable.

I like backhouse's philosophy, if you can't say anything intelligent, don't say nothing at all

Then why don't you practice it.

LOL

LOL!!!!

Whats even sadder is the fact that they were given a choice and chose the other crook.

poor feisty redwig.... she and liberals in general have taken such a beating from all over the country this week! About right now she's starting to look more like pink slime than the real thing!

Vote for America! Romney 2012!

The whole thing reminds me of the Alvin Green escapade in my state of South Carolina. I have believed all along that Green was the brain child of Karl Rove or his South Carolina equivalent. Seriously, where did this unemployed guy get $10,000 for the filing fee?

In the case of West Virginia, I really doubt that the 40% of voters who voted for the felon actually knew who he was or that he was a felon. All they knew was that he wasn't Obama, and they've been warned! So they voted for a total unknown serving time in a federal prison who could be Timothy McVeigh's little brother. The really scary part is that total ignorance doesn't keep you out of the voting booth.

That is the most ignorant thing I've ever read. You know NOTHING about WV.

Brenda,

Please see post 5.13 this is about COAL it is not a Racial issue what is wrong with you people?

So... unfortunately for many of us, the election will come down to the handful fo swing states. You can find the list of these States all over the internet.

West Virginia isn't one of them, so WV not voting for President Obama is a foregone conclusion that is already factored into both sides calculations. By the way, Romney won't EVEN visit WV in the next 6-months because he doesn't need to...the people there will vote for him sight-unseen.

The same is ture on the Democratic side for New York.. So...protest vote all they way.. its not a good or bad indicator for anyone... its a known conclusion

The world is now dumber for having you on the planet. Bye the bye President Obama's lineage goes to Nigeria which is not by the rest of the world consider arabic. How f ing stupid are you.

Nor English, nor German, nor Welsh, nor French, nor Scottish, only American Indian/Native American, and I'm all of them. So, I'm "caucasian" which is a real misnomer, since the name really refers to the portion of humankind from the Caucasus region of Europe/Asia, not from the British Isles or western Europe.

Cau·ca·sian [kaw-key-zhuh n, -shuhn, -kazh-uhn, -kash-] (From http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/caucasian)

adjective Also, Cau·cas·ic  [kaw-kas-ik, -kaz-] Show IPA.
1. Anthropology . of, pertaining to, or characteristic of one of the traditional racial divisions of humankind, marked by fair to dark skin, straight to tightly curled hair, and light to very dark eyes, and originally inhabiting Europe, parts of North Africa, western Asia, and India: no longer in technical use.
2. of or pertaining to the Caucasus mountain range.
3. of or related to the non-Indo-European, non-Turkic languages of the Caucasus region.

Anyone who is still bringing up the "Muslim/Arab/birth certificate" thing is nothing but a damned fool.

They are to stupid to listen to reason.

Yes. You're an idiot.

Your the ignorant one. The reason Obama is so unpopular in WV can be said with one four letter word, COAL! Obama has used the EPA to obstruct new permits for mining either by surface or deep. The regulations now on power plants are so strict that the NYT reported it is essentially an economic and technical impossibility for any new coal fired plants to meet the emission standards. Not difficult, impossible with current technology. Thus the NYT stated that there will be no new coal fired plants built in the future and those planned are being cancelled. The folks of WV know this very well. Obama is considered the single greatest cause in the decline of coal production and rise of poverty in that state. It is not complicated yet the media seems oblivious to this fact.

West Virginians don't depend on coal. Coal companies depend on the stupidity of West Virginians. What West Virginians do depend on is, medicaid, food stamps and welfare checks.

Anold,

Hooray! Someone with a clue! It is about COAL not RACE people!

All of the intelligent people left there long ago (1963 in my case)

I bet no one here would have the gonads to say this to anyone's face. Hide behind your computers.

If they had waited till today the felon would have gotten 97% of the vote.

Imbreads???? WOW

Yeah, I can't wait until that fool Romney goes packing for the ...what is it?...Sixth time?

Uh...What?