Ruken: of course it wont affect anyone in congress. They have wonderful health care and I am sure it has a preventative component to it. Why are we as Americans so adverse to preventative health care? Prevention is so much more cheaper than the cure. We have to move away from the curative model of health care. Why can't this issue be taken up on it's own merits?

Ruken: of course it wont affect anyone in congress. They have wonderful health care and I am sure it has a preventative component to it. Why are we as Americans so adverse to preventative health care? Prevention is so much more cheaper than the cure. We have to move away from the curative model of health care. Why can't this issue be taken up on it's own merits?

We are one of the only industrialized countries remaining without a nationalized healthcare system.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Universal_health_care.svg

When will we join the modern world? We even gave it to Iraq and Afghanistan ffs.

A fully "democrat" controlled Congress dropped the interest rate in 2007 and wrote into the bill that it was supposed to go back to normal this election year. I smell a setup.

Congress needs to stop playing games and get some real work done. But that won't happen until after the elections. We've seen twice now in recent history how this country does when it is in total control by democrats. Once was the Carter Administraion and the now the first two years of the Obama Administration. Any questions as to which way I am going to vote?

JH: I am a democrat and you are right. The democrats screwed it up royally for the first couple years of the administration and they paid dearly in Nov. 2010. Most reasonable Americans are hovering around the middle and not to the far left or the far right. We cannot govern at the end of either spectrum and the middle seems to be a horrible word now a days. Mitt is not going to win unless he comes to the middle and the same goes for Obama. This all or nothing political stance has gotten us into a lot more trouble than anything else. There is nothing wrong with being centrist and this goes for both sides.

This whole thing is BS.

All this caterwauling and they're only addressing "Federal Student" loans. Many students don't qualify for a Federal Student loan based on their parents income, so they have to take private loans. For some reason the President has conveniently omitted from his crusade.

How about this Mr. Obama.

Let's just make college FREE for everyone, since it's so essential to our Nation's prosperity. Let's WIN THE FUTURE (WTF) with this new plan. Also, let's erase EVERYONE'S student load debt, and for those sad people who actually paid off their student loans, let's refund that the money back to them. How can we pay for all this? Well, let's ask Warren Buffet, Jeffery Immelt, Tom Hanks, Steven Speilberg, Whoopie Goldberg, Brad Pitt and all the other fat cat democrats to just pay 75% of their income into the WTF Fund.

You can have that guy from GSA run the program from his hot tub in Las Vegas.

.

So why not take from both areas (Health Care and Oil Subsidies)? Then you can have more money to due what is needed. If college costs more than most people can afford why would we not want to keep the costs down by keeping the loan rate low? Seems pretty simple to me.

But on another note ....Why are we still subsidizing big oil anyway? Politics aside if they continue to make "record profits" each quarter, they don't need the money from the tax payers. Maybe they should remember the oil belongs to the US not the oil company.

Let's just make college FREE for everyone

Um, nothing is free. Someone has to pay for it.

Maybe they should remember the oil belongs to the US not the oil company.

Oil belongs to the oil company. Our oil isn't nationalized.

My advice to the Democrats - accept the Republican's deal. Embrace it. Love it. Slap the Republicans on the back and vote 'aye'.

The Republicans just set the bar - for renewing the 2003 & 2005 tax cuts. Under PAYGO rules, the Republicans just clearly stated that renewal of expiring legislation is considered new spending - requiring spending offsets.

If Republicans want the tax cuts renewed - they need spending offsets. Easiest place to do that - in the tax code. You want the tax cuts - pay for them by ending subsidies - closing loopholes - eliminating deductions. Guess who gets most of those?

Of course, the Democrats are too stupid to understand that - so this is just another FUBAR political stunt. Idiots to the left - idiots to the right - nothing in the middle.

Oil belongs to the oil company. Our oil isn't nationalized.

I knew that....just meant it as if it was in your backyard it belongs to you (and even then it may not belong to you) until you sign it away to them . Perhaps it should be nationalized.

Sorry for the off topic.

I knew that....just meant it as if it was in your backyard it belongs to you (and even then it may not belong to you) until you sign it away to them . Perhaps it should be nationalized.

Sorry for the off topic.

It should be nationalized. Allowing corporations to control the substance (oil / gas) that our entire economy is based on is ridiculous.

Ruken definitely agree about oil...it should not be traded on the market and only at a 52 week moving average removing the crazy volatility we see at the pump. How is it that we can only buy oil on the international market. Why not reserve a % of all gas and oil extracted in US territories for national use (pre-international market) at a price slightly above refinery costs.

As for the subject my student loans were at 8%, and are all paid in full. This is about the economy and once again our politicians are playing games. A house divided cannot stand...its a simple concept, why are we too dumb to get this?

70+ Seats for Dems in the Senate (KILL THE FILABUSTER RULE)

Control of the House

Put John "i'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a scotch and soda today" Boehner, Mitch "Peabody" McConnell and Eric "Can't Do Anything" Cantor on a slow pink bus to China.

they have to take private loans. For some reason the President has conveniently omitted from his crusade.

If he'd included the private loan industry he'd be vilified for being anti-business.

Ruken who wrote:

"...I must say this surprised me...Hypocrites."

Well it sure doesn't surprise me.

This is what happens when Republicans "jump the gun" and comment on news articles they haven't even read.

Go back read it from beginning to end, and MAYBE, just MAYBE, you'll realize how nonsensical that statement you made is.

Now, because it's an election year, Republicans want to "pretend" they would do something, anything, to benefit the American People, but ONLY if Republicans can use any movement as a pawn to deny the American People quality affordable health care.

Obama / Biden 2012

Come on, guys - fixing commodity speculation is not that difficult.

If you do not take delivery of the commodity - it is subject to a Value Added Tax. A number of 'conservatives' push the VAT idea - this is a perfect place to put it to the test.

Is the only reason that commodity speculation is not addressed because of the word 'tax'? How very childish.

Congress needs to curb some of that good old vacation that they're always taking and curb some of the other perks that the rest of us don't get.

Why don't they pay for the lower interest by sacrificing some of their pay, instead of prevention funds that help people.

Gotta leave it to the Republicans to make it complicated.

TO: JH-479998 who wrote:

"... We've seen twice now in recent history how this country does when it is in total control by democrats. Once was the Carter Administraion and the now the first two years of the Obama Administration. Any questions as to which way I am going to vote?"

There's a whole lot more definitive "recent" history than 40 years ago, but Republicans are completely dependent upon their "selective memory" and "amnesia" to try to make the disasterous Republican Bush presidency which still hurts our economy and the American People to this very day, and the incredible successes of the Democrat Bill Clinton Presidency, which Republicans ripped apart just like Republicans are trying to rip apart any chance of the American People having quality affordable health care!

You must be trying to fool the kids JH, because the grown-ups know a demagogue from his very first lie.

Obama / Biden 2012

The Senate could end filibusters today - if they really wished to. Did you know that to conduct a filibuster - it is necessary to continue actual debate on the floor if there is no other business? Someone must be addressing the Senate and refusing to relinquish the floor (end debate) - by being present and speaking - in order to filibuster.

Harry Reid could clear the calendar of Senate business and require someone to actually filibuster. If the filibustering Senators leave the floor (stop debating the bill) - the filibuster is over. The Senate can forcibly end a filibuster using the cloture rule that requires 60 votes.

What has been happening - the Republicans threaten a filibuster and there are not enough votes for cloture to force end of a filibuster. Instead of clearing the calendar and requiring the filibuster to proceed - Harry Reid tables the threatened bill and moves to the next business on the calendar.

Go back read it from beginning to end, and MAYBE, just MAYBE, you'll realize how nonsensical that statement you made is.

I did read the end, which is why I made the follow up quote. :)

The article just doesn't mention that they attached health-care cuts until the end. It's like thinking you're getting a good deal until you read the fine print.

John200....

I agree completely. College should be free for everyone. And all existing student debt forgiven. And all previously repaid debt returned to the payer. And while we're at it all mortgages should be forgiven because housing is important too. And anyone who has paid toward their mortgage should have that money returned, simply out of fairness. Automobile loans should be forgiven because people performed an important national act in buying a car. They kept people employed. Where would we be without the automobile industry? Let's forgive the debt on the old car and maybe they'll buy a new one. It will be an economic miracle! And credit card purchases kept people fed and dressed in style. Without credit cards our economy would collapse. Surely it's it the national interest to forgive that debt in order for people to charge more. Any money owed to the government for taxes or whatever should be forgiven because 100% of it would go directly to the ecomony as a stimulus.

Your concept has great potential, John. Please don't stop at college costs.

My student loan was 8%. Even at 6.8% that is not a bad rate. The 3.4% they currently pay is a steal. Obama campaigned that this rising rate would "shake down" students. But didn't mention to them that he voted for this very same Bill that sets the rate from 3.4% to 6.8%. If it does as he claims, shaking down students, then why would he vote for such a Bill?

If we socialize oil as our nations energy, why not Nat gas, solar and wind? Heck, lets go full blown European socialism and let our govt control every aspect of our life. Working well for them (NOT)

Nerm, worked the same when the R's had the Senate. On issues they know will take the 60 votes they don't actually do the filibuster as it would be a HUGE waste of time and taxpayer money. Either side would actually do it if it were taken that far. All they would have to do is say "in my opinion the following people wouldn't like this law" ....then just start reading from the phone book.

If we socialize oil as our nations energy, why not Nat gas, solar and wind? Heck, lets go full blown European socialism and let our govt control every aspect of our life. Working well for them (NOT)

When all of our trucks run on wind, solar, and nat. gas, your argument will be entertained.

In the interim it is merely a weak strawman.

What the article fails to tell you is that the money that was used to fund the preventative services in Obamacare were stolen from the college tuition program. COngress used creative bookkeeping to pay for Obamacare - robbing Peter to pay Paul when it suited them. Like everything else they do, they kicked the can down the road until Paul said, time to pay up. We wouldn't be discussing where to get this money from if they hadn't taken it away in the first place. Dems are just angry that they can't argue that Reps don't want to support lowering college education costs - AND that it is now becoming clear how they intended to pay for Obamacare.

Beohner complains about the pressure O'bama put on congress by firing up college students. The GOP deserved the shove in it's collective back. While I am happy the GOP will work to keep interest rates lower. I am not happy that money will be pulled from health care reform to do this. I would rather tax savings extended to BIG oil be trimmed and the resulting tax revenue be funneled into the department of education. When did O'bama vote to raise the interest rate BIG ATC? He left the Senate before he took office or before his 2007 run.

Have you ever been to Germany? The Germans enjoy a better quality of life than the middle class here in the United States. Have you seen European socialism in action? I HAVE, don't talk about things unless you have seen how they work in person.

Ruken, you need to dig a little deeper.

In 2007, Pelosi had the legislation written to expire which it never needed to do. Doing this does several things. First, because it expires, it can be used as a poltical issue again and again to blame the republicans, and to buy votes from everyone who borrows to pay for college. Second, the program added over $5 billion more in spending by the fed that not only added to the Bush Deficit, but also when it expires, that would be 5 billion plus the annual base line increase of 8% per year that can be used to create a new program to buy votes. Then when it is discovered that this program is expiring, the current amount the program has to be found somewhere, usually by increasing the deficit by that amount.

Why did the Republicans pick the Medicare money? Seems that there was a "slush fund" built into the medicare budget. Easy to do when you are dealing with that many zero's. How it was found out was that Medicare Advantage was outlawed per the ACA. You know, that is the popular "bridge" insurance for the Senior Citizens that covers a lot of what medicare does not cover, including the Knot-hole Seniors. Obama tapped the money to put a new "trail Program" to temporarily replace Medicare advantage. When questioned about where the money came from they slipped up about the "slush fund".

With the cat out of the bag, the Republicans decided to make some of these "undesignated slush fund" pay for to keep the student loan interest rates down.

Think I'm telling a story?

Last year the Republicans wanted to cut $100 Billion of spending. They finally got the Democrats to provide $50 Billion. Investigations showed that $37 Billion was funds that were allocated but not spent by agencies. That money is supposed to be turned back to the treasury. Normally, left over funds get spent whether by the agency (so they won't be reduced that much the next year) or by Congress, to buy votes from citizens with new programs.

All you and I are going to hear from Democrats and the News media (79% Democrats) is that the Republicans are taking funds from Senior Citizens health care, even though the money was never going their anyhow.

@DB Akron:

Instead of just 'cutting' Medicare, they should address the rampant fraud going on in it.

It was something like $400M worth from what I heard (I don't have a source).

If the repubbies are going to do away with Obama Care, how can they spend funds they are going to do away with? Just another war being waged against the middle class. Way to go pubbies! Down the tubes in 2012.

Ruken

Obama has taken money out of the health care debacle plan twice already and was working on a third

" Down the tubes in 2012" , that's inevitable if we stick with you libbies

I would be surprised Ruken if it was ONLY 400m. Organized crime was big into it siphoning off funds. All these huge govt programs have massive waste.

Maybe a fourth. His budget proposal cut 4.5 Billion from Prevention and Public Health fund. The slush fund that paid doc fix, did some unemployment and now proposed to subsidise the student loans at 3.4%.

Right Wing Wacko -

From here:
As of March 2011, the oil and gas industry held 38.6 million acres of leases on
the public lands. However, it was not developing or exploring for oil and gas
resources on 57 percent of its holdings (22 million acres).

As of May 2011, the oil and gas industry held 6,573 approved, but unused,
permits for drilling on federal lands.

So, yes, they are using that money to survey likely sites, but, no, they are not increasing drilling to actually supply any more oil. Why would they? Keeping the supply low guarantees more profit and continued subsidies to look for more oil. They are businesses, they are making record profits and they don't need my tax money!

BigATC

"testify" !

Right Wing Wacko,

I must agree with you. Why should any corporation assume any risk? Assuming risk would cut into their profits, which help fund politicians re-election campaigns.

I've been reading the posts here. These republicans really do need a scalp check to see if they have a 666 on them. What I want to know is how, if the rates have not been increased, it is a burden on the taxpayer? How do you spend money you don't have? Oh, wait, it's Congress! Sure, why not budget for money you THOUGHT you were going to get vs what you already have. That is what the 99% have to do. Why is anyone any different?

College free? NO WAY! 1-12 grades should not be free. Parents should rake out the cash for that too. Pay your way. The rates should not go up, colleges need to have their budgets reviewed by an oversight committee before allowing increases to tuition and kids should get their loans.

First off we need to remember that we are talking about loans and the interest charged when they get paid back. So what we are really talking about isn't "spending" in a true sense, the debate is about how much money the government makes when the loans get paid back.

We are providing loans to banks and financial institutions everyday at rates less than 1%. Even if we had to borrow money from China to make the loans, the government would be paying somewhere around 3% or less on that money. So why can't we just pass that on rather than taking money from something else to "pay for the loans".

We loan money to banks and give money away to other countries but we can't loan Americans money to get an education at a decent rate? What is wrong with this picture? When the original bill was signed allowing the rates to increase, that was before the economy crashed. There was no reason at that time to assume that market rates wouldn't be much better now.

These student loans pay for themselves in more ways than one and in reality they aren't a true expenditures as they also create their own revenue when the loans get paid back with interest. Now you might argue that some loans don't get paid back or they drag out the repayment. But they are still making interest on those loans. And even if only 20% got paid back by students who graduated and got good jobs, their contribution to the economy was a positive which translates to more revenues. Student loans are an investment, not an expense.

Republicans act like we are giving away free money with no anticipation of getting anything in return. That's ridiculous.

Even the pure Pell Grants to low income students have economic payback for the country, but what we are talking about here is loans. There's a big difference. There should be no reason to find "funding" for these loans because they are really "self funding". But if you are going to look at it as a budget item, then use tax dollars to cover it. Eliminating the oil company incentives is as fine a way as any, they make enough money on their own. But take it out of health care spending? How cruel and uncaring can you be?Bottom line is Republicans really don't care about paying for it, they are only using it as an excuse to cut spending so they can fund more tax cuts and sweeteners to business and the wealthy.

Mr Boehner says:

"Our country's facing some major economic and fiscal challenges, yet here's the president wasting time on a fake fight to try to gain his own re-election," Boehner told reporters. He called the college visits "political stunts and, frankly, they aren't worth it and worthy of his office." He said Obama should repay taxpayers for the use of Air Force One for the trip.

Can we go back and bill former President Bush for the 124 MILLION he spent during his reign of stupidity?

President George W. Bush spent over 124 million taxpayer dollars on trips to his ranch in Crawford, TX, and using John Boehner’s logic we demand that the GOP pay us back.

www.politicususa.com/gop-owes-taxpayers-124-million-bush-vacation-travel.html

Now Boehner, aren't you do at a cry me a river meeting? I think you are the one who is wasting our time.

every single piece of legislature coming from republicans always inc;ludes either

A.) massive cuts to social services that rgeatly benefits many lower waged perosns

B.) mass tax cuts that only benefit a small minority over the majority

EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF LEGISLATURE.. Why we even have republicans in office boggles the mind, but so many Americans are just stupid

That's just great Republicans... you have said repeatedly you don't want to lower interest rates on student loans and in fact you want to cut loans and grants with your draconian Ryan budget plan. Now that you are forced politically to lower student interest rates you take it out on poor people. Everyone can see your agenda and it is in fact War on Women, War on the Poor and War on education. What a shame the Republican party has become!

It's a shame how much this country has drifted away from its founding principles. The poor and middle class of this country are always the ones being asked to make sacrifices. The sad part is, is that the rich and the well educated are always coming up with ways in order to trick the poor/middle class, into believing that what they are doing is in their (poor/middle class)best interest.

Oil belongs to the oil company. Our oil isn't nationalized.

#1.7 - Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:54 AM MDT

If that was the case, they wouldn't need to lease land to get it, and pay a tax on the value of what they pull out of the ground!!! Oil pulled out of the USA belongs to the people of the USA, Oil companies pay a price to bring to market that oil and the difference between the price they pay in capital costs and taxation and the price they get on the market is their profit... and they profit handsomely.

The fact that you do not understand that means that there's quite a bit more you do not understand, and that more than likely you are a plant.

Take your poison pill courtesy of the Republican Party.

Scaring the Children

http://spectator.org/archives/2012/04/27/scaring-the-children

By Ross Kaminsky on 4.27.12 @ 6:09AM

Obama's Democrats want to stick Republicans with student loan interest rates they themselves mandated.

Hey I thought that Mr President said that the Repubs did not care about the College students! Dems you might as well take some of the good cuts to the Health care, since the Supreme Court its going to reject that Monstrosity as unconstitutional.

Yea, you have to read to the end. They attached this to the health-care cuts because they know they'll get some Dems to vote for it then. That way, the GOP gets what they really want (cuts).

I think attaching bills to others is just bullsh*t. Each 'law' (or set of laws governing a specific area) should only be in a single measure. Attaching unrelated crap like this is just harmful for the public.

And Mr. Obama has also been playing the "vote for me cause Im you" With the comments about "just" paying off his student loans. When starting in 2001 his tax returns show he was making over $200K a year, possibly putting him in his own "Millionaire" bracket. Its hard to know where you stand Ruken your worse than a Mexican jumping bean on a flat surface.

They attached this to the health-care cuts because they know they'll get some Dems to vote for it then.

The problem is the student loan business was nationalized to pay for Obamacare. Therefore, if you are favoring lower interest rates, you have to make spending reductions to the areas the money from interest would otherwise go to. It's pretty freakin logical.

I hate how every change to gov't backed healthcare is decried as killing women and children. If I give a children's hospital $1 billion per year, am I killing children because I'm not giving them $10 billion per year? Money is a limited resources and can't pay for everything for everyone for everyday.

Yeah Matt+numbers money does seem to be a scarce precious commodity too bad we couldn't replace it with the abundance of ignorance coming from the uninformed American electorate. This is the hype the GOP want you to believe, when all they had to do was create jobs and the debt and deficit would disappear. The is no shortage of cash, capital...what ever you want to call it,...can you say Federal Reserve? We do have a shortage of representatives willing to work together for the mutual benefit of the entire nation.

Republicans attached a rider to this bill as a ante in the poker game they are playing with our lives. Why can't Congress pass a single simple initiative....? A single word 'politics'...my way or the highway, my ideology or nothing at all. Just like disobedient and rude 2 year old children. I say we send Congress a strong message in the fall that we are a nation united for whats best for ALL Americans not just the privileged few.

70+ Seats for Dems in the Senate (KILL THE FILABUSTER RULE)

Control of the House

Put John "i'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a scotch and soda today" Boehner, Mitch "Peabody" McConnell and Eric "Can't Do Anything" Cantor on a slow pink bus to China.

Maybe we should just let the rates double. Or even triple them. Get these useless deadbeat kids out of college and into the minimum wage job market where they can move to places like Alabama and spend 14 hours a day picking vegetables.

Accept even lower wages and price those pesky illegals out of the job market. They say illegals take jobs Americans won't take. So make those jobs the only option for more Americans. That'll solve the illegal immigrant problem, right?

Republicans are trying to help Mittens out, except it will bring up health care again and Mittens doesn't want that.

Republicans attached a rider to this bill as a ante in the poker game they are playing with our lives.

It's not a rider when it PAYS for the interest rate reduction directly from the funds the interest would otherwise cover. A rider would be something like, let's reinstate Don't Ask Don't Tell on a student loan bill because it would have nothing to do with loans. The Dems took over student loans to pay for Obamacare and therefore the DEMS made student loan interest rates be tied directly to healthcare. Why? To fund Obamacare and to gain power in situations like this. If the Dems propose interest rate cut, the Republicans hate students. If Reps propose and interest rate cut, they are trying to starve Obamacare.

However, if you are going to reduce interest rates, you must reduce funding. This is the illogical, economically uneducated nonsense people like you continue to spout. People with you're logic are why we are in the debt mess we're in. You support people who just give people stuff and promises for votes.

Plus, the article mentions that numerous times Dems have attempted to make cuts to the very same programs to pay for other initiatives.

Right wing - quit with the greedy, everyman for them selves convictions. You are not part of the super wealthy who needs no help, even the conservative Catholic church is scolding republicans for their failure to think of the poor. I admire those who make it big in this country but that does not mean, I think they all need to hoard money, I thought by now some of those "job creators" would have created some jobs. Greed, Greed, and more Greed; that has become a new value in this country and I am ashamed, that this has happened to our once great country.

Read some history books about unions and what kind of conditions the "Job Creators" had us working in not even that long ago and you would be amazed. Mine safety, Oil rig safety, and, hour of work a week. Have we now become a nation of Ebeneezer Scrooges?

You know what makes me sick about this student loan fiaso?

The reasons higher education costs so much that they need to borrow $80,000 - $150,000. Cutting the interest rate doesn't mean as much as cutting how much one must borrow to get a quality education.

Higher education increases 12 - 16% per year - and it doesn't matter whether the state and fed gives them more funds, keeps the funding the same, or cuts funding. The increase in costs shouldn't be more than 5% per year.

If you really want to help the kids, find a way to cut this increase without having the fed take over.

Ron

70+ Seats for Dems in the Senate (KILL THE FILABUSTER RULE)

Great, and shortly thereafter we will be the new Chinese province!

Monstrosity? Where do you live, Mars? Healthcare belongs as a right to have not a privileged few who can afford the premiums. Ins companies are as bad as big oil. If education is a right to the kids of this country, my healthcare should be a right just as much. Period.

Concern Citizen-856329 - and IF The Supreme Court does overturn this health care bill.. then you and I can go back to the way it was before. Millions with no health care coverage and we can pay it with our tax dollars. We all know that the Republicants don't care about health care. If they did, where is their plan?

Let me ask you this; if rich people have to pay the same amount of taxes as everyone else, will it really change their lifestyle. It is the middle/poor that are affected the most by taxes, yet it is the rich and their representatives that cry the most about taxes. The rich use "common sense" to control the middle/poor. What makes "common sense" to you, doesn't necessarily mean that's how the economy works.

You can vote out the 12 blue dogs for voting for the republican bill. NAME Them.

Luz,

You mean like my kid who earned almost 1/2 her college costs in tuition and grants, owns neither an Ipad nor an Iphone (or a droid for that matter, but took the free one that came with our family plan) and who doesn't drink Starbucks or any coffee (and takes the more limited food plan at school)? The one who takes her Stafford loans so mom and dad don't have to put as much toward the remaining college costs? The one who works summers and during the school year? And most of her friends are just like her.

Again, it's the middle class getting the shaft. I am neither rich enough to benefit from GOP policies nor poor enough (thank God) to need Dem ones. I don't ask for much, but to let my kid have a chance at a decent start at life but keeping interest rates reasonable on student loans isn't asking much.

Vote out every one them 12 rep,BLUE DOGS DEM who voted for the republican bill.

sounds like you care more about what i do with my money than what obama does with yours. i take it you will be voting for a welfare state this november.

Affinity, if u had a job, u wouldn't be running your misinformed mouth the way u do. Do u really believe anyone is going to allow children to die. Obamacare is supposed to take care of evrything, isn't it? The country is going broke, that is a fact. Cuts have to be made and the people who abuse the system need to move on. Working people are tired of of paying for those who do nothing to contribute.

Where are the limits? When do we stop paying, and paying, and paying? There will always be poor people. There will always be dying people. If $1 million helps 10 out of 11 dying people, is it worth paying another $1 million to help the last dying person? You'd say "Yes!". But you think if we need more money, we just print more money. Might that $1 million be more useful in education that helps children be successful and more likely to be healthy? Might that $1 million be more useful in NOT being collected so it stays in the private economy generated wealth for more than just the one sick person and therefore giving people more means to live better lives?

Money is a limited resource and you can't get all the money you want to pay for education, healthcare, unemployment, homeless shelters, food stamps, etc. Even if you got all you asked for, you would turn around and ask for more. As greedy as you say the 1% is, I say you are equally greedy because your lust for public funding, no matter how inefficient, will never be quenched.

We need to keep student loan rates low and end the oil subsidies. Americans are tired of of paying for corporate welfare.

Cut down on oil subsidies and support education and general health. Oil companies are not in a sick economy, they're getting all our dollars.

Are you insane? Foreign Policy has always been their strength? If your idea of foreign policy is to go to war with any country that doesn't play ball, sure. Otherwise, that's absolute drivel.

With republican strengths like "foriegn policy" who needs weaknesses?

And just think, they think Romney is the answer. LMAO Are you kidding? He hides his money in a "blind trust". Yeah, like he doesn't know what's going on. DUH. Extensions on his taxes so he won't have to disclose them (like he doesn't have the money to pay the bill) and loves to pink slip Americans and doesn't care about the poor. Oh yeah, I can see why these people would want him in office. Just ask MA about him and how they got rid of him. He's a sleeze bag that wants money and power and to keep his wife barefoot and pregnant. How many kids do they have? 15, 20?

Are you always so misinformed? If you ask for an extension in reporting your taxes, you are still expected to pay any owed money on time.

typical liberal moron. please explain to me why you feel that the moment you are born....other people owe you?

TR

Did you scream about it when Obama and the Dems raided the student loan fund to help fund Obamacare? Or did you over look that fact. See post 10 below.

S-u-u-r-r-r-e-e-e, TR. Vote straight Democratic ticket if you wish. But you better make sure you have enough "rich GOP corporates" to actually pay for all your Democratic wish-lists!

Why don't they just collect all the taxes Warren Buffet's companies are fighting with the IRS about? Maybe he and Bill Gates and a few of the Hollywood Heroes could just chip in a fraction of their wealth to pay for all those college educations!

The whole reason college is so expensive is because of government backed student loans. The lenders approve 100% of student loans because you can never escape them. There is 0 risk to the lender (that's called a moral hazard and the gov't creates them throughout the economy). Then the schools know that the students will be 100% approved and they know the distant repayment is something the students think nothing about. So the schools keep escalating costs, knowing that it will be paid for by students AND state and federal funding. THEN the government keeps pushing at every level, everyone must go to college, increasing demand for services and space on campuses, sending costs higher and higher.

If you think voting straight Democrat is the way to get college paid for, you are loony. They are the ENTIRE reason college is so expensive and loans are such a burden to begin with! College might be free for everyone for a few years, but instead of teetering on the debt edge as we are now, we would be willingly leaping over the cliff to the jagged rocks below...then NOBODY would be going to college.

Matt+numbers if you have ever had a student loan you would understand the banks have no liability because these are federal funds. So why pay banks billions of dollars to administer this program. Obama's administration took steps to remove the middle-man (the banks) and save those funds for other programs or to pay toward the national debt. This is always good policy (remove the middle-man and save) whether government or personal.

You are correct student loans cannot be eradicated, through any means except paid in full, but your assumption that student loans are a factor in the cost of education is severely flawed, and has absolutely nothing to do with the price of tea in China or escalating salaries of administrators and teachers at prestigious colleges. By your assumption these funds are being paid back 'over time' by the students, conflating a dynamic that increases cost of education. when schools get paid immediately as students pay for classes, buy books, and housing. Could you please elaborate as I don't see the connection.

70+ Seats for Dems in the Senate (KILL THE FILABUSTER RULE)

Control of the House

Put John "i'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a scotch and soda today" Boehner, Mitch "Peabody" McConnell and Eric "Can't Do Anything" Cantor on a slow pink bus to China.

The whole reason college is so expensive is because of government backed student loans

That and the professors getting payed between $200,000 and $400,000 to teach our kids to be dependent on government

Could you please elaborate as I don't see the connection.

Gladly. I'll intro by saying a moral hazard is any action taken that reduces risk so much for the parties that they take unacceptable risks because the consequences are not borne by the parties involved.

1. Student loans, unlike any other debt, cannot be reduced or removed by bankruptcy. Therefore, there is ZERO risk for the lender to give the maximum amount of money to any person no matter their ability to pay the money back. The lender will get the money, even if it means the IRS confiscating wages. Also adding to the ZERO risk is that the gov't offered protection for the lenders by backing up the student loans. Therefore, just like in the housing market, the lenders have no risk associated with giving out $100,000 to history majors because no matter the student's future ability to pay, the lender gets the money. Now with the loan business nationalized, the moral hazard is compounded because the government cares nothing about providing loans that may never be repaid. The loan forgiveness for 10 years of public work or a max of 25 years for everybody is testament to that.

2. It's not that they are being paid back over time that is a problem. That's what loans offer. Although, loans do increase prices by allowing more people access to the product or service, the effect of that part of loans is minimal. The problem is that these loans are being offered to individuals who have never known what it means to pay for anything in their lives and have no concept of balancing income and expenses. $10,000 means nothing to an 18 year old who has never paid a bill and might not even graduate for 4-6 years, and then if you add graduate school, maybe not 10-16 more years after high school. Anytime a consumer isn't directly involved in the purchasing of a product or service the prices will increase because the consumer becomes less concerned about cost when "someone else" is paying, even if only temporarily.

3. Colleges are mostly public universities. Therefore, they not only get revenue from students' tuition and fees, but also from state and public funds. There is little concern for a bottom line. Unhinged levels of debt, as we've seen, is perfectly okay in the public sector because the government backs the debt. There is no bottom line, and so no reason why a university should be overly concerned about costs. This becomes a whole other issue when people start to wonder the credibility of gov't backed debt because they start to wonder when has the gov't overextended its promises, and are businesses really safe engaging in transactions with universities? This realization can only send costs higher so colleges will be able to service current debt loads.

4. All 3 previous points combined mean that colleges care nothing about what they're charging. If they know that students are approved 100% for loans, that those loans will for the foreseeable future be approved, that students are mostly disengaged from the debt loads they build, that the government backs all of this debt and additional funding for the schools, and that the demand for college education continues to increase, they have no reason NOT to continue to increase prices. There is almost no risk associated to increased costs because they have seen and will continue to see that the government keeps subsidizing costs and students will continue to pay the exorbitant costs.

I resent your statement about the "price of tea in China" because I'm not creating loose connections from a factory in Michigan to a family in Georgia to a politician in Washington. The government is wholly and transparently involved financially in secondary education and can be directly tied to why college costs what it does. My question to you, Ron in Seattle, is what are your explanations for why college is so expensive, and therefore, student loan debt is so ginormous.

allow me to give the liberal response to your facts matt.......WHY DO YOU HATE STUDENTS!?!? lol ;-)

facts dont jive here at nbc, unless they are edited to be more palpable to the sensitive progressive ear.

if you have ever had a student loan

Providing an explanation on an issue shouldn't be contingent on proving that I have some enormous debt. It's a logical fallacy called "circumstantial ad hominem". Not having student debt doesn't make my arguments on student debt false or less relevant as you would imply.

But for full disclosure, I am fresh out of graduate school and have $65,000 in loan debt. Do I win the acceptable contributor seal of approval from you now?

Additionally, I'll say your arguments fall under the "burden of proof" fallacy as they always come back to something like, "How can you be against (blank)?". You assume that I am the one who has the "burden of proof" when you're lack of proof is proof in itself.

It is incorrect to assume that students can just take out however much loan they want or need to pay however much their school costs. Federal student loans are very limited, both annually and throughout the student's lifetime. The average 18 year old is not going to be able to borrow close to $10,000 for one year. Freshman are limited to $5500, Soph to $6500, and JR/SR to $7500 per academic year up to a specific lifetime limit. The average federal student overall debt is a little over $23,000-not the 80-100,000 I've heard some quoting. These annual amounts are for the traditional age college student, no dependent children, not married, etc. There are higher amounts for non-traditional students. Most four-year public and I would say all private schools are going to cost more than the federal loans will cover, especially when room and board are considered.

Why do you post comments that attack everyone you disagree with SDSkydiver. One attack after another. I bet you were a bully growing up, if so you have not changed you are still a bully. If I don't stop here I will post something I will regret.

wade, notice what the left does? im just one among many, most hate here at nbc is directed at me because i disagree with the progressive left, and nbc is the place to be if you want to converse with the progressive left. YOU are the attackers, i fight back. i wasnt a bully, but i bet you were bullied. you can say anything to me, nothing you should regret, so please dont stop, i promise you cant offend me, do you know why? because your opinions are no different than my opinions, they are only opinions. if i wanted to be high fived and slapped on the back, i would be at fox posting.....which i guess is your goal....division.

KingK Fox, news is not in the news business. It is a foreign propanda machine for todays GOP. The source you cited drops your credibility to -100 percent.

really wade? nbc is not in the liberal propaganda business? fair to say that when you cite nbc sources i claim your credibility drops to -100%? how many people were fired at fox vs nbc for distributing intentionally edited news?

Very well said SDskydiver. The working folk need to start speaking up before it's to late.

I agree. The major problem is that there are less and less of us each year. We soon will be unable to pay for everyone else, no matter the tax rates they charge us, what with almost 1/2 getting a free ride.

bums and losers who live in the parks are protesting people who get up and go to work everyday

This is the democrat liberal base. . .

Quick, you too can be one of the 48% who earn below the poverty level and guess what, you pay no federal income tax. Of course you pay excise taxes, and sales tax. You pay property tax (if you have any) and you get Eric Cantor (R-Virginia) who wants to apply a fair Federal Income Tax to you to prevent his rich friends from paying as much as the middleclass.

Avoid the rush, become poor right now and you too won't pay Federal Income Tax.

idiot republicans.

exactly mike. nobody stole anything from TR, TR's condition is directly tied to TR's ambition. Those with no ambition will vote for Obama and whatever free crap they can get from the likes of me and you. this will not change. they have to hit rock bottom to appreciate what they do already have......which is a government already full of compromises......like......the progressive tax code, food stamp roles, wic, snap, stimulus checks, etc ad nauseum. the left is angry, they dont want to "change" the system, they just want "more". they built the system.

GOP = Greedy OLD Politics.

GOP cares only about money. It is funny how these morons get elected to represent us when they clearly hate Americans.

Mikey,

You need to remember your lovely corporations have their interests in other countries and not here. Once the jobs come back then this arguement will hold water. Until then that ship sank a long time ago. NEXT.

why would corporations want to come back and give jobs back to americans when we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. its madness reba, MADNESS! lol

Idiot republicans make me laugh.

Your "fair share" is whatever the Dems think you can afford to aid those who won't do for themselves. If they can just promise enough free rides, they will get enough votes, especially since I would be MORE than willing to bet that the vast majority of the almost 50% of people who pay no income taxes vote overwhelmingly Democratic.

next they will try to legislate "empathy" lol

Mikey

You poor thing. Who brainwashed you? The "no tax" class all are republicans. It seems you are a reincarnated Ostrich.

reba,

you poor thing. it seems you are brainwashed progressive moron.

SDSkydiver71 you may be a 'bitch' for all the right reasons but to base your assumption about entitlement programs on what your wife says...('wait are you Mitt Romney in disguise...?'), is a dangerous proposition.

Ron, your liberal ignorance is showing AGAIN. You completely missed SDSkydiver71's point.

ron, i may be her bitch, but you are my bitch, i own you with the money i pay in taxes that you and the liberal ilk live off of. pray i dont move away, it will be one less revenue stream for you.

So, SkyDiver, your wife is part of the Chinese government, is she? Does she get these policy briefings from China often?

Or, are you just inhaling instead of exhaling during her inflation?

jc, my wife is a professional translator. she knows that communist china has always been guilty of raping their own people, thats why she moved. she also recognizes that the chinese government has learned to rape us as well. thats why she laughs.

Maybe your wife should go back to China and let her kids at age 6 work in the factories. Seems like she misses home. If she is not happy here, nobody is holding her back. Bu-bye.

BTW, I am so sure you pay so much tax on that $40k a year you make. How sad.

Let China invest all they want, then Apple and others will yank the business out of that country. BOOM. Did I just hear China's economy in the toilet. I CAN"T WAIT and it will happen. HA HA

i made 105k last year. not that it should matter. nice to see you hate america so much, did i say nice? i meant scary! you are a fairly sick individual. as far as my wife, i guess you are only supportive of ILLEGAL immigrants, the scum of society. nice! oh and as far as my tax bill......your welcome. moron.

Eliminate Oil company entitlements. Eliminate capital gains tax entitlements. Now we're talking real money.

The Fed Gov needs to be out of a lot of things. But, unfortunately, with someone like Obama at the helm just the opposite is the direction he wants to go. More and more government , coupled with more and more government spending to create more and more dependency. And who care if it requires record setting deficit spending and record setting debt (owed to communist China) to sustain Obama's vision. After all, if its good for Obama, it must be good for all of US, right???

Yeah King,

Just like the oversight left the banking industry and we let it ruin the country during the last administration. Govt not involved? Then why do we have a Constitution? That is the Fed govt there pal. There here and will stay here, get used to it. Oversight is always good. Trust banks and companies on their own? Are you crazy?

Now the republicans are campaigning for anarchy? I guess better an anarchist than a socialist. ROFLMAO

repubs are scrambling? LMFAO. where do you get your news? NBC? LMFAO some more. EPA official says "crucify business roman style", obama slow jams on fallon (REALLY?), obama wants to end kids working on family farms (an institution that built this country) and then yesterday backs off because of pressure (cant find that story on NBC can ya?), i have more but i'll just laugh at you some more instead because you cannot be convinced that I dont owe you anything. repubs are scrambling....LMFAO!! thanks m8

when the scotus strikes down obamacare will you call them teabaggers?

People are always running their mouth about REVOLT. If there is ever a revolt, it will be from the WORKING people who finally had enough. Enough of seeing "POOR" people running around with $200.00 Air Jordans on, with the latest I phone up to their ear. And then some scum bag like Al Sharpton saying we need to pay more. Safety nets were put in place when a person TRULY fell on hard times as a temporary fix. Million of people have been milking it for decades and think that they deserve more.

hey jc, i remember pelosi telling us "repubs are scrambling" in october 2010, one month before she lost her speakership! LMFAO, im scrambling jc, im scrambling! lol moron

Skydiver, do you ever, you know, actually respond to a post? With something intelligent, I mean?

See, since I can find no evidence of that on this thread. Tell Rush you need some new "talking points".

Oh, and, Joe, Off-Topic Racist Rant much?

Obama also "obama slow jams" on America. . .

jc, i have never listened to rush a single day in my life. your point? or are you just making the typical moronic liberal assupmtions against someone who doesnt agree with the socialist in chief?

Oh, you just get Rush's bull@!$%# from the internet, then, SkyDiver? Tell me, are you signed up for the automatic e-mails, or do you just search his site every hour?

didnt even know he had a site, i care about as much for rushes talking points as i do for matthews talking points, to me they are the same. naw, i prefer to listen to obamas own words and form my own opinions, unlike you.

SkyDiver, you really don't even bull@!$%# well. That's sort of the point.

no bs, dont need it. come visit, knowing you like free stuff so much ill give you a free skydive......no strings attached! bwahahaha.

JC, nothing racists about my remarks. I could careless what color a person is. Lazy is lazy. I just mentioned Sharpton because he is always running his mouth. He thinks he represents all blacks, but he doesn't.

Yeah, Joe, right. It just so happens that your remark only seems off-topic and racist. Purely a coincidence.

Bull@!$%#.

SkyDiver, it sure is a good thing you don't try to spread bull@!$%# all over these pages, all right. It would require you to know the difference between a hole and your sorry ass in the ground, or else everyone would call you on your pathetic bull@!$%# all the time.

Oh, wait...

Now, of course, keeping the rates at the same level will "cost" six billion, even though it doesn't actually "cost" anything at all. The only "cost" associated with keeping the rates where they are is the "cost" of revenue not collected by raising the rates! The Government will only make a point or two on the loans, instead of four or five points. Same "cost" as the last five years.

You obviously do not understand how this works. Those loans are not made by the government. Instead, they are made by private lending institutions at whatever their going rate is. The government then subsidizes enough of the interest to drop the apparent interest rate to the current 3.4%.

Look at who benefits: lending institutions - if they had to make loans where students paid the full interest rate, they would obviously make fewer loans - supply and demand! Now, consider that the lending institutions can borrow that money from the federal government at damned near 0% interest. Lending institutions are making money hand over fist - at the cost of the American taxpayer!

Now isn't it amazing that Republicans support this? They are totally against any government giveaways - unless, of course, it helps destroy Obama's ACA by using funds set aside for the ACA to pay for that giveaway - then they are all for it!

I think the reduction in student loan rates should be allowed to expire. We do not have enough jobs in this economy to absorb the college graduates we already have! About half of all recent college graduates are unemployed or underemployed. Get the economy back in shape producing jobs and students will gladly pay higher loan rates beacuse they know they will be able to pay them back later because they can actually get a job when they graduate to pay it back!

Once again, Democrats and Republicans are ignoring the real issue in the this election - JOBS! It's the economy, stupids.

SDskydiver71

jc, i have never listened to rush a single day in my life. your point? or are you just making the typical moronic liberal assupmtions against someone who doesnt agree with the socialist in chief?

Stop lying through your teeth, I know you listen to Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Karl Rove. Never admit when a liberal or a moderate has blown you out of the water. You attitude and treatment of liberals and moderates is pathetic and abomindable. I don't have to read any more of your trashy posts. Todays GOP is no better then the Nazi Party.

moron, i dont listen to them. i dont care for hannitys opinions any more than chris matthews, i really dont.

wade, you are so full of hate for people who dont share your view its scary, "todays GOP is no better than the nazi party." REALLY wade? you are the trash wade.

SD Skydiver,

Did your parachute not open once are twice?

People, ignore these postings. He is definitely paying for Romney. Too bad it is wasted money.

IGNORE HIM.

lol reba, ignore me all you want, no different than O ignoring half of america. thank you for your kind wishes on my chute.....good thing i have self reliance in my favor......and an faa inspected reserve, but if i do die from your wicked wish on a fellow americans chute, i want my tombstone to say "his name was jim, but now he's art"

right! because everyone knows obama never lies! LOL, still waiting for the seas to recede and the earth to heal?

A new dumb a@s republican.

channel fox? i get my news from multiple sources. but all of my opinions are formed by listening to obamas own words.....not pundits from either side. so tell me.....why do i owe you anything? what do you offer? regurgitated talking points from an ill-prepared president? does your leg tingle when he speaks?

hey chip, on second thought i agree with you, the entire tax code is screwed up.....lets reset it and start from a point of equity, i keep whats mine and you keep whats yours. want more? work as hard as me or start begging. fair?

That's the most ignorant thing anyone's posted in a while. Get your head checked.

actually your tirade below this post is the stupidist thing i have seen posted anywhere today. student loans are not the governments business, neither is the private housing market. you are a liberal moron and we will never agree on anything, i am a maker, you are a taker, this will not change. now we are haggling over how much i will let you take.

Taker? What do I take? I am the 1% asshat. I make more money in a month than you make in a year - evidenced by your supposed assertion of a $100m salary. My taxes are more than your annual income.

I OWN. I employ several hundred people through various business ventures, and I also take care of my employees which is why they are happy, healthy, and satisfied people. Sure, money is great but having a staff and a workforce that appreciates what we do for them is more important than anything. But what would you know about other people. You're a bragger. I have, I have.

Unfortunately, people like you don't realize in a society we're all tied together whether we like it or not and the best measure is to look out for each other so we all benefit. You'll still get yours, just not at the expense of someone else. Some will not do, regardless of the opportunities presented, and those people make a choice that dooms them to their existence. That's their problem. I'm talking about people who WANT to do more but don't know how or don't have the resources to make it happen.

im no bragger, someone calls me foolish, i simply use it as a point to make, if i am foolish and still attained a level of success which is in the top 5 or 6%, then what does that say about the entitlement crowd. i use liberals words against them, thats all, no talking points from any pundits anywhere. also i said over 100k, not 100m, for someone who is so successful as you are i expect you to be able to read. victim of public school too i see.

i wish your mother had access to free birth control before she shat you out, i would have gladly paid for it.

Nice to see an internet tough guy. Just another punk with a big mouth hiding behind a keyboard and a screen.

I wonder if scientists could ever find out what makes liberals tick. All their love and compassion for the lazy, the need to hold these people by the hand and make it all better for them. Because u know, liberals think that people are stupid and can't make it on their own. The problem is, is that they want everybody else to pay for their idiotic enslaving ideas.

awe roy, need someone to take care of you? i hide behind nothing, i am commenting on my opinions same as you.....oooops, i forgot, opinions that differ from obamas are not welcome in america anymore. lol. get off your ass and do something. stop complaining about what other people have. you can make it too, if you really wanted to.

B Roy--so EVERYONE gets a free college education now? Who is going to pay for all of it? In case you haven't noticed, our national debt is about $15 Trillion now. I can imagine adding another trillion or so per year under your plan! Nice move!

I can see you subscribe to the Democrats economic theory that anything given away for free MUST be a heck of an economic stimulator, ala Nancy saying food stamps and extended unemployment checks are great economic stimulus!!!

So what you're saying is that welfare is okay, you just have a problem with people? Who said anything about free? You pay taxes and those taxes go to universities just like they go to local municipalities and school systems through property tax.

I love how Republicans always try to frame the argument as an if/or argument. "If we do this, we can't do that. This must be or that can't be." It's a non-starter. What's the PRIORITY? Do we need a standing military the size of ours? No, we don't. WHY do we have one the size it is? To protect corporate interests abroad that would impact economic stability. That's fine, but don't tell me corporations who use our military to stabilize regions for their economic gain shouldn't pay tax and get subsidies to boot.

Seems the priority needs to be decided, and priority is clear if you look at history and what spurred the nations greatest growth cycle - education, infrastructure, and taxes. America MADE things, people worked, EVERYONE paid taxes. Importers paid tariffs. Economics is one area we could roll back the clock to 1962 and we'd all benefit.

roy, why do you assume that someone who disagrees with you is a republican? indoctrinated much?

BRoy--if you forgive all student loan debt as you proposed in your post #22, that is, in fact, free college education for all. You may dress up the pig and put lipstick on it, but it is still and always will be a pig.

Rolling back the clock to 1962 would be nice, but the Dems would NEVER go for it. Their champion program of Medicare/Medicaid would be no more, and that would crush their very souls. LBJ's ill-fated but politically brilliant "War on Poverty" would have never happened, and our country would be far richer for it. Again, NOT something the Dems would EVER go for. Also, the Viet Nam War would not have been. Maybe the Dems could go along with that, if you just erase the memory of which Presidents actually escalated the war.

there's no reason to ditch social programs. Just ditch the out of control military spending and put taxes where they should be. Put tax rates back where they were - when the country and it's companies and it's citizens were doing their historical best. Corporate tax rate was 90% - which forced companies to invest in the future rather than squeeze every employee and dime to satisfy shareholders. They GREW a business rather than rape and suck every last dollar out of it as they ride it into the ground.

Amazing that you so clearly missed the point.

And I say forgive student debt because it's not like it wouldn't do more good than harm in the overall. Again, more taxes = more revenue = stronger economy for everyone. It's a win all the way around. Now, if politicians can sit and preach we need to do better in math and science, we need more engineers to innovate - which is all great - what do you want people to do? Go to college and become innovators and engineers or not? Because right now, there's not a ton of incentive to go to college to get out making the same wages they would have made 20 years ago or making a salary that's less than their tuition bill. Nobody want's to go to school to be poor for the next 10-20 years. The promise of a better life is no longer there. Who go's to school and heaps up $40m in debt so they can have a $35m job? That's a $700/mo student loan payment.

Worse yet, the LENDERS are getting the money they're loaning for FREE. 0% interest from the FED - while they want to charge students 6.8% compound interest?! That's insane.

Better yet, ditch people like yourself.

Yes, a good smart dem.

Why, because I make a valid point? The best you can come up with is a personal insult, and a lame one at that? Seriously, if anyone sees what I've posted as incorrect I'd really like to know how. Forget the personal attacks or that you don't seem to like my ideology and speak to the idea. I'm all for differing opinions on this, but don't be a punk.

B.Roy,

Just a small piece of advise. No sense in trying to debate with the likes of them. You are correct in your conclusions about how we could have a future America stronger than ever if we just invest in our youth and their education. Most of these "Republican/Tea party" posters are nothing but paid disruptive "trolls" that don't have the proper facilities to debate with any substance. You are just wasting your time.

Thanks for your input regarding this subject. It is something I will look into to see if it really has merit, it definitely has worked in past.

indepndent, tighten your helmet and chin strap, the short bus is heading back to mmfa pretty soon....hold on buddy!

Sd whatever,

I have read your post's. Unfortunately for me. You rants are just that. Rants! Without any substance whatever. Your level of debating is so far below B.Roy it is comical. Or anyone else on here you try to inject your nonsense with.

And your "little" dumb attempts to be witty are even worse. You are a little person without question, and it shows by how little you make. So, go collect your $.85 cents "troll" and leave governing to the big boys! LMAO!

ind, whatever. sorry for not loving socialism, social justice, and redistribution schemes. i am an independent too, that must drive you crazy ;-)

Sd,

No you are not! I have read your post's. Tea Party, maybe. Republican for sure. Independents are able to think for themselves! Not narrow minded like your comments expound. Doesn't affect me in the least, I just look at the source! And there's not much there, for sure!

well carnac, i have been a registered independent for nearly 10 years, before we even knew who obama was, so, ok. im not narrow minded. you are. you cant stand people who disagree with you. you are a progressive, therefore you are nothing.

There you go again, claiming to be something your not! And putting labels on people who you know nothing about! Don't learn to well do we! Certainly, don't debate very well either. LMAO!

you dont debate at all, you name call. thats all i have seen from you. LMAO! your a sad little occupier, talking with you is like talking to a child....gimme gimme gimme, i hate you! LMFAO at you.....again.

Hate is all people like you have. You certainly don't have any true facts to bring to a debate! Out of here, so go suck your little tea bag, you are not worth my time anymore.

ind, time for your nap "i hate you gimme gimme gimme" i was mocking your uber-progressive ideology. the only hate i have are for progressives, some call themselves dems, some call themselves repubs, and some call themselves independents. but if they are progressive, they are scum, lowlifes, the worst of the worst. go to bed, you need sleep.

your name is appropriate, you have a chip on your shoulder against anyone who is more successful than you. since i make over 100k a year, and according to you i am "foolish", this should be further evidence that entitlements are not the answer to a persons success, i mean if a "foolish skydiver" can own a carvette, live on 5 acrs on top of his own little mountain outside yosemite, make his own hours, work when he wants...........than surely anyone can. dont belive me? pics on fb, same name as here. remember the public school teacher teaching elementary school kids the "mmm mmm mmm barack hussein obama" song??? how would that have flied if it were Bush?

moron

Apparently he thinks making money somehow makes him a better person. It doesn't. I can't say what it does make him, but I have a feeling he was a rectum before making a good living. I do as well, but I don't act like that

He's an ignorant scumbag. Just ignore him. If we get lucky, his chute will fail and we'll have one less moron in the world.

bwahaha his chute will fail. anything to add roy or just another liberal hate monger from nbc?

Sorry B.Roy, the truth is the truth. You now have schools teaching children that there should be no winners or losers. "We don't keep score when playing a game, someones feelings might get hurt" Sounds like something liberals endorsed.

roy is the perverbial winner of participation trophies.

Joe, I'll be the first one to agree that's garbage. There are winners and losers, and I personally hate kids don't learn that lesson. Hurt feelings. Have losers. No awards after 3rd place. Reward is the only way people work harder to become more. I totally agree.

But this doesn't apply to student loans - regardless of your liberal or conservative view. Most students on fiaid work. With the cost of college, a family of 5 with a gross median income of $50m can't put a kid through school. That should be unacceptable to anyone.

sorry roy, not interested in helping to fund students go to liberal colleges and study liberal arts and the occupy movement on my dime. maybe i could get behind some kind of engineering or medical based studies, something science related, maybe. but government funding loans for liberal studies and indoctrination, i think not. if i have to fund your student loan, fine.....then give me some say in what you study so that we can make sure you are studying something that will actually have an impact towards the betterment of society, instead of pooping on police cars. savy?

You're really into the whole pooping on cars thing, aren't you? You should seek counciling for that.

But seriously, you can't pick and choose who does and doesn't get funding. Personally, I don't feel too sorry for someone who gets a degree in Mesopotamian History with a minor in Sandscrit. Unless you're going for a PhD in history, that's a worthless degree. But English or Literature majors usually become teachers or journalists or some kind of PR person so obviously not supporting those things would be foolish. Arts are important to any society for a number of reasons - whether you agree with it or not. As an engineer, I personally think anyone going for a degree better have a job market in mind when they do it or there's not much point in going.

Get off the indoctrination thing already. If you went to college, you should know better.

im not into it, you occupiers are, and with O's endorsement. i just think its funny and like to throw it in from time to time, seems nicer than ragging the occupiers for the rapes, crimes, and drugs that abound around occupy encampments, just trying to take it with a bit of humor. you are an engineer too?? what kind of engineer are you to be in the 1%, most engineers i know are in the top 5 or 6%, course most of the engineers i know are mechanical engineers. (we build the buildings that you like to protest in front of lol) so an engineer eh, well, its kind of hard to be indoctrinated into progressive philosophy when pursueing an engineering degree wouldnt you say? arts are very important, i agree wholeheartedly, as long as its not derrick bell or bill ayers who are teaching it hehe. if you cant see the liberal indoctrination creep into public schools and colleges, than we really have no business talking to one another as you are hopelessly lost. mmm mmm mmm barack hussein obama, catchy tune to teach elementary school kids huh.....what was the other line in that song....something about "we are all equal in his eye" almost doesnt sound like they are singing about a person does it? yea thats what i want my kids to learn in PUBLIC SCHOOL. moron.

You're not paying for someone's student loans-they're paying them back with interest. All we're talking about is keeping the Subsidized Direct Loans their current interest rate. The Unsubsidized Direct loans are currently already at 6.8% which starts accumulating while students are in school. Also, expecting students to study only fields that you personally feel are beneficial belies the whole "freedom" thing, don't you think? Sounds a lot like the former USSR where they told their students what they would study and what jobs they would have and nobody had any choice. That's the world you want to live in?

um no, they arent all paying them back, thats the problem. if they are funded on my dime, then i want some say. or is this another progressive redistributive scheme?? you said...."Sounds a lot like the former USSR where they told their students what they would study and what jobs they would have and nobody had any choice. That's the world you want to live in?" sounds like the path obama is on doesnt it? i understand, and i vill relay your message to vladimir. lol, harvard offering a reading group now...."Understanding Obama" WTF!? lol

Yeah, them Republicans in the House are all about doing good things for the country. Why, on this issue alone, they are claiming that a "cost" exists, then "paying" for the "cost" they just created by trying to take money away from Health Care.

Real stand-up guys, aren't they?

As far as I can see, the gop is the party of no...not the dems. I know this must be news to you. They are so bitter about their loss to Obama that they can hardly speak without the word no coming out of their mouths. So if you want to point fingers and call someone spiteful, I think you have the wrong group of people. They are the ones who put the party before the people. Think most people know that...unless they believe that the emporer's new clothes are wonderful.

jc, if all of congress, dems, repubs, inds, voted the will of their constituents instead of the will of their party leaders, would obamacare have passed in the first place? we both know the answer right? how about this.....if you are in congress, either side, vote the will of the people in your district instead of the will of a party leader. would that be equitable? i mean after all, that is how it is SUPPOSED to work.

Yeah, not really. Republicans want to do this but they want to gut the healthcare act to do it. That's why Democrats are against it. Read the story.

why do liberals always think that a dislike of socialist or progressive policies automatically means you are just bitter towards obama? why do career politicians in congress insist on not voting the will of the people in THEIR district, thats why they paid in 2010 midterms. there is no hate in that comment, no choosing sides, just truth. if they only voted the will of their constituents, it is true that less will get done, but what does get done will be beneficial for EVERYONE, not just the winners/losers that the controlling party at the time gets to pick. that was the intent of this great experiment you know. dont forget libs.......shoveing things down peoples throats goes both ways, obama wont be president forever. if your representative who you voted for doesnt vote your will, remove them.

If a loan has to be paid back, then, how the F&*K is it charity? 3.8% is not free. Big banks getting money for less than 0, now that is free.

Conservatives have lost their way and are in no way patriots, they are consumed by greed and hate for even the working poor. Have none of you ever seen that man or women out at 6am on a cold winters day, waiting for a bus to take them to work, and, you call them lazy; because they have not been as sucessful as you or as you would want to be.

I wonder how many of you "conservatives" have ever served you country in any real meaningful way. The tea party is almost over as more and more people realize you do not give two squats for this country or the future of your grandchildren like you always are talking about. We need an educated work force to be able to compete with other countries that really do have free education and are getting OUR jobs in their country and even this one as they are better trained at the jobs that are in demand.

If you think that Obama did all this to you; then you are even more helpless and scary than I think you are.

bill, so we need to add "free education" to the list of other free things that are "rights"? at birth, you have guaranteed opportunity in this country, you dont have a guaranteed outcome and you will never legislate it either, no matter how much you TAKE from the rich. OH NO!!! people standing in the cold waiting for a bus!!!! subsidize the taxi companies too, pick them up at their door, bring them breakfast too while you're at it. dont like living in the cold?? move somewhere warm. you are a moron. we need an educated workforce?? educated in what? liberal arts? redistribution schemes? you suck as a person and are part of the problem with this country. you want to stop kids from working on their family farms too?? like obama?? oh wait, he got smacked down on that yesterday didnt he. couldnt find that story here at nbc could ya. obama didnt do all this moron, he is just tripling down on the failed progressive policies of the past. if you are going to read "rules for radicals" then you should also read "Tragedy of the Commons" to know where his policies will take us. its from 1968, and pretty scary.

A new dumb a@s republican.

black, too uninformed to comment i see. lol, nice.

black1520,

You nailed it! To dumb to know he isn't superior but just inferior.

now there is some substance eh ind.....but what is this substance?? oh crap, its crap, did you shart on a cop car again. silly occupier.

I can't for the life of me figure how everyone thinks this all Obama's fault! He has to work with Congress and that is the problem! It's all about "party"! If a Dem thinks of it, the R. vote it down and vise versus! Worse than children!! Recent example - Dems want to keep lower interest rates on student loans but now they are going to argue how it will be funded! This way the r.s can argue that they tried but were thwarted by the Dems. And the game goes on.........

SDSkydiver is getting a bit upset. Awww.

Ignore him. He's not worth even reading.

tsk tsk reba, you are supposed to be ignoring me. cant stay away doll? i hear ya.

Sd whatever,

For someone who claims Democrats always label all conservatives , you sure do your share labeling. You really should stop dragging your knuckles while walking, especially with all that "crap" lying around! LOL!

ind, whatever, i dont label democrats anything, my mom and dad are dems. i dont label liberals either, though i do admit to saying "liberal and/or dem" when i am posting here, and i thank you for pointing that out to me, you are right. i do however label "progressives" as disgusting, race-baiting, hateful fearmongers. they are the scourge of america. i will make sure to always use "progressive" as the description of people like you.

Sd,

Your little rant make "daddy" feel better. Always better to be progressive, conservative, and liberal than have blinders on being let by the nose like you! LOL! Told you to watch those dragging "knuckles", now you probably have "crap" on them..

the only way there would be crap on them is if an occupier like yourself shat in my yard. go away little occupier, fly away to your socialist utopia. lol.

moron

Labeling again Sd. Tea bag being reused too much? Try using a new one. Naw..probably wouldn't help no matter what you do. Believe me, occupier's have it all over the likes of you. At least they don't drag their knuckles on the ground! LOL!

ind, you are the one labeling. you are my bitch ind, i own you boy. what was your mos and years of service? im curious now, since you are a claimer.

do you see what PROGRESSIVES will stoop to? claiming military service, the ultimate in moron-dom. you are nothing but a liar ind. a sad, occupy the street liar.

SD,

Boy, the only thing you own is that worn out tea bag you been sucking on. Before you get yourselve in real trouble, I would like you to back up your statements with some proof and not air like you use. Good solid proof. You wouldn't know military if it stepped on you. Talk about a waste of time and a nobody with no thoughts of his own.......LMOAY!

well, having worked at miramar, pendleton, spawar, and 29 palms, im going to have to disagree with you loser as to my knowledge of the military. what statement you want me to back up? i can back up anything i say. i wanna get in real trouble ind!! you an internet tough guy now too? probably pics of china and the mil bases, and professional skydiving vids and pics on my facebook, you are welcome to go look, same name as here, i dont hide behind anonymity like you pansyass progressive. sdskydiver71, James is the name moron. you keep leaving out your mos, cmon say it, we can have a good laugh together.

Something I learned while in college at the University of Iowa. The Iowa City Land Lords Association has such a strangle hold on rent that it is cheaper to buy a house than to rent an apartment if you plan to be in Iowa City for more than 2-3 years.

The smart college student would buy into a house and pay a mortgage while at college and then sell the house when they graduate to get much of their money back. Why pay more in rent than mortgage payments? At least with a mortgage the interest is tax deductible. At least until the Republicans get their way and take that deduction away from the poor and middle class.

I abhor living on credit myself. I prefer to live within my means, but even I ended up with $20K in student loans by the time I graduated.

Gee Iowa guy---almost in EVERY area of the country, mortgages are cheaper than rentals! Took you a college degree to figure THAT one out?

Nice comeback Mike. Don't actually discuss the point, just make a stupid comment and move on.

Incorrect generalization. Traditional college students are limited to $5500-$7500 per year, depending on their year in school, with a lifetime limit. Non-traditional students and graduate students have higher limits, but please don't generalize that all students can borrow enough to even pay tuition, much less room and brd. Some can, yes, but not most.

You seriously have no clue, but you post anyway.......

Student loans are a rare financial instrument that cannot be dismissed by a bankruptcy. This debt stays with you until death.

Get educated.....get into debt

Try to get out of debt.....get an education.