Just another knife in the back of the 99%ers.

The ruling 1% are making another grab for it all . How quickly they forgot , the middle class and the unions built this country and helped make them rich . Cut and Gut the unions any further and we truly will be slaves in our own land once again . That does note bode well for the 1% as we will rise up and take our country back .

Typical American news reporting (not singling out AP; they all do this). The article tells us what the dispute is about, but not what it is. What are these new rules? What changes to election timing would they bring about?

There's a big difference between giving 30 days' notice of an election to management vs a week. And how long did it take before? A year?

car556

What are you blabbering about ??????

While in the building trades union who is kidding who ??? You made a damn good living, with very good benefits . If not for the union you would have made SQUAT with no health care , insurance , drug coverage and death benefits . ( you would have been a slave period )

bob

Now after the attempt this ridiculous legislation then maybe they can go after the stupid rules in the stimulus money that requires municipalities to use Union labor and discounting the many folks that are capable without joining unions. It is stupid to create a program that only allows for a special class of worker instead of considering the legitimate labor that does not wish to pay to join a group of thugs and lobbyists.

Joining a union should be an option not a demand by the federal government and Unions. No good worker should be ruled out because they do not wish to join. Businesses should be able to hire the best and brightest not the lazy and confused who need someone else to protect the jobs if they are ineffective.

I'm with AG99 on this one. Since MSNBC isn't concerned with what's in the bill, here it is in summary:

Changes to Representation Election Procedures

Second, the NLRB will implement a series of changes to its union representation election procedures. Specifically, the following issues are affected by the changes:

Defining the Scope of the Pre-Election Hearing. When parties cannot agree as to election terms, the NLRB conducts a pre-election hearing to determine whether an election should be held. The new rules explicitly state that the purpose of a pre-election hearing is to determine whether a question of representation exists, and give the hearing officer the discretion to limit the hearing to relevant matters. This change will eliminate the right to raise issues such as the supervisory status of some putative unit members.

Limiting Post-Hearing Briefs. The new rules provide hearing officers the discretion to control the filing, subject matter and timing of any post-hearing briefs. This change will eliminate briefing by the parties as a matter of right.

Consolidating Pre- and Post-Election Appeals. Currently, parties must file one appeal to seek Board review of pre-election issues and a separate appeal to seek Board review of post-election issues, such as challenges to voter eligibility and objections to a party's conduct during the course of the election. This amendment consolidates the two appeals into a single post-election procedure. This change will also eliminate post-election review as a matter of right.

Eliminating the 25-Day Waiting Period. The new rules remove the 25-day waiting period after a regional director's pre-election decision issues previously allotted for the disposition of pre—election appeals. Because the new rules eliminate pre-election appeals, the waiting period no longer serves any purpose.

Establishing a Standard for Interlocutory Appeals. The current rules fail to establish any standard for the filing of interlocutory appeals concerning individual rulings by hearing officers or regional directors during the course of a pre-election hearing. In the past, parties have been able to file several appeals in a single case regarding discrete rulings as to what evidence may, or may not, be permitted. The new rules make clear that the Board will grant such interlocutory appeals only under "extraordinary circumstances where it appears that the issue will otherwise evade review."

Establishing Standards for Post-Election Procedures. The new rules codify a practice in which regional directors decide challenges and objections to elections through an investigation, without a hearing, when there are no substantial or material factual issues in dispute. The amendment also makes Board review of the regional directors' decisions discretionary. This change will require parties to identify significant prejudicial error by the regional director or some other compelling reason to attain Board review.

This is what I've learned: The NLRB doesn't usually create rules, in fact they've only created three in their organization's lifetime and two of them happened within the last year. It appears that they are getting agressive when compared to their past.

Current union rules give union members time to learn about a proposed action and figure out how they wish to vote. The new NLRB rule would allow union leaders to propose an action and take a vote in a much shorter time (a week-ish sounds like the reality). That wouldn't allow union members to get their facts straight, their inquiries answered, get organized, have a hearing prior to voting, etc. It puts the union leaders at a distinct advantage over the union workers in setting up things as they like. Hey, I'm not a union worker but I'd just assume be able to read up on proposals that would effect my career prior to having to vote on them- wouldn't you? Say your union leader wants to spend your union dues on something- wouldn't you want to review what for and why prior to having to vote? Similarly, this would also expedite the unionization of a shop such that a business wouldn't have an opportunity to make a counter offer to unionization. Some companies would rather pay the workers better, change the workplace, etc. rather than to have a union on site. Shouldn't that be an opportunity for the employees and the owners prior to being confronted with unionization?

Other new rule forces employers to post signage that states the following:

The poster notifies all employees that they have the legally protected right to:

• Organize a union to negotiate with their employer concerning wages, hours and other terms and conditions of employment;
• Form, join or assist a union;
• Bargain collectively through a union for a contract that sets wages, benefits, hours and other working conditions;
• Discuss their terms and conditions of employment or union organizing with co-workers or a union;
• Take action with one or more of their co-workers to improve their working conditions by, among other means, raising complaints with their employer or government agency or seeking help from a union;
• Strike or picket their employer to obtain improved terms of employment or working conditions; and
• Refrain from doing any of the above.

So, the workers must know that they can unionize. Realizing that there are complainers in every business, I'd guess this is a good thing for unions as they'll likely get a foothold in new businesses (and much faster).

Well, at least you have some of the facts now.

bob

Your union boss does much better than you. Who do you think you are kidding??? Who does the actual work? Where do your union dues go?

"Union busting" has become a Repubilcan trademark since the 2010 elections (still waiting for those promised jobs Republicans. By the way, give aways to big oil and deregulation of clean air and water are not jobs bills).

There are very clear lines being drawn between the GOP platform and the Democratic platform. So far, women and Hispanics are siding with the Democrats.

Although Romney is pivoting to the center (after being far right), I'm sure Americans will recognize this as an etch-a-sketch moment.

Eric - Why are you always telling us how the job market is improving since 2010? What changed in 2010?

Seems like the only one putting forth effort to increase jobs is Obama. It sure isn't Boehner and his crowd.

This cycle of corruption must be stopped and this GOP action is the beginning. NLRB is supposed to be a watchdog but instead has turned into a union organizer. Unions give hundreds of millions taken from memberunion dues to Democratic campaigns and then the elected Democrats funnel it back to them with this corrupt NLRB board and stimulus projects with worse abuses in the public sector. High salaries and benefits go to government workers on every level- federal, state and city - after those unions give millions to the Democrat campaigns. When the GOP tries to reform this corruption the cry goes out that they hate the middle class and workers! Meanwhile we taxpayers are screwed.

i have no ideal how republicans get a vote on what ever they want but the democrats seem to be so dumb they can't get to vote on anything without 60% vote margin do the democrats not know how to filibuster

I really don't understand the Republicans reasoning to push a bill like this during an election year. This just further cast them into a position against the middle and lower classes for the benefit of the 1%. Do the math Republicans. The 1% make up exactly 1% of the votes.

Yes chuck, lets keep the rules the same because the working class has done so swimmingly well for decades.

Why would you want to delay or destroy peoples right to organize and negotiate wage and benefits... If companies can't win their case without delaying and intimidating their employees they deserve to lose... I am glad we have a man in the white house that would veto this.... I don't think its a stretch to say Romney would approve this legislation...

Of course the Teapublicans want to kill Unions. Who else stand up for employee rights?

To each and everyone of you, that, complained about union workers and especially those that knew somehow that union workers are lazy are out of their minds. If it were not for unions there would not be a 40 hour work week, reasonable hours of work, safety rules, and you don't want any money going to them because you think they are all crooks. Of course all those super wealthy giving millions to the Walker campaign in Wisconsin (whose state is almost last in job creation since he busted the unions and destroyed one of the diamonds of public education.), and, money to the Romney Superpacs. MILLIONS OF DOLLARS!!! Are donated to people to wipe out unions; those people are honest, wonderful people who are only thinking of America?

You need to check the income graphs that are available every where and see that as union membership as gone down, so have our wages. Thesse big companies in this country (Wal Mart is one example.) not paying their people enough money to live on; their employees have to be subsidized in so many ways in order to keep food on the table and their rent paid, and, those subsidies come from the rest of us. Why should we pay the money Wal Mart should be paying?

Any working man that is against the unions is an absolute idiot. The big boys do not want to pay you, they have no loyalty to this country or to working people.

We have had these big tax cuts now for going on 14 years and at what point can we expect the "Job Creators to start creating those jobs? Tell me conservatives, you have had your tax cuts; now where are the frickin jobs that you are always talking about?

Eric,

Your timeframe is a little off thinking that union busting only goes back to the 2010 election. It has been a hallmark of republican thinking and action since long before unions earned the right to exist with passage of the Wagner Act in 1936. Ever since that time subsequent Republican congresses and president's have worked to scale back or totally eliminate the right to form unions, see Taft Hartley 1948; PATCO 198?; TSA 200?, and of course all of the current legislation throughout the states eliminating public sector union rights, and what they are trying to do to federal employees - postal service, and the rest.

car556
If unions are so great why don't they OWN any companies??? They can't afford themselves that's why. Yes I am a retired union member "building trades field construction".

That's like asking why plumbers don't perform open heart surgery...it's not what they do.

If unions are so great why don't they OWN any companies???

In the past, they have owned companies from time to time. When US Steel decided it didn't want to invest in upgrading their plants to remain competitive, union workers at some of them bought the plants themselves, modernized them, turned the business around and became competitive.

The bias of MSNBC toward the Democratic Party is so obvious as to be laughable. Anything the Republicans do or try to do is demonized instantly from the MSNBC operation, but when the Democrats try and preempt the constitution not a word. Not even a word from the legions of Democratic Party loyalists that live on this site as any means to a desired end can be justified.

Funny how MSNBC finds no news in the fact that Senator Chuck Schumer is trying to push a bill that would null and void the immigration law in Arizona if in fact the Supreme Court sides on behalf of the state. Schumer wants to make sure that no state can do the job that the Federal government has failed to do. Ignoring the constitution is becoming the Democratic Party trademark.

Well Rick nobody is holding a gun to your head forcing you to be here. I am sure Faux has a right wing nut job site that you could migrate over to and feel right at home.

Another Obama end run around Congress....They couldn't get "Card Check" passed, so Barry just Decreed to the NLRB to REGULATE Card Check into existence...and that is exactly what they did......

Rick,

And using only the parts that Republicans/Tea Party like while ignoring the rest is a Republican Party Trademark! SCOTUS is a prime example how the Republicans when in control of the "Constitution" how they pick and choose and ignore past precedence whenever they want.

How about Republicans being upset with their "sheriff" who makes up his own laws about "profiling" and laughs when told he is violating Federal law and brags about how he is still doing what he wants. Maybe that Senator has it right wanting a bill that protects a U.S. citizens right to unwarranted searches and being profiled because of race!

You want laughable! Your candidate can't even stick with his "values" of being a "severely Conservative" Republican. Flip-Flop's on a daily basis about every issue! Vote for a guy that has no guts to stick with what he believes. Laughable you say, No, what is presented as an Republican choice is laughable. LOL!

The GOP job creators are doing their best to create jobs by putting Americans out of work and sending their jobs to China.

Until retirement I was a highly skilled worker and always belonged to a union.I worked with older members who could tell us about the working conditions in our trade before we had unions. No workers with sense would work without a union.The employers have always had a union, although they have various other names for theirs and spend millions telling us workers that we don't need unions and many people believe them, but why do we believe their statements if they have their Employers unions and yet don't want us to have ours? All of the ruling class have unions .All of the Professional classes have unions. Are they stupid? Geat real!

Car 556,workers are the union and workers own stock, some of them in the companies that they are working for that makes unions own companies if you know how the stock market works,but to make a statement like that I doubt that you know that companies are owned by stock holders and that some of those stock holders are union workers.

Trying to work on a job without a union is like going to court without a lawyer, you will have to take what you get,a union allows you ,the union,to bargain.

JH-479998

BS Eric - Harry in the Senate is slowing down everything.

He and Nancy started the slowdown in 2007 and the Republicans are fighting him to get things going

======================

BS JH. What planet do you live on? It certainly isn't here. The obstructionists are Mitch and John. You need to lay off the weed.

I hope that everyone takes note of who votes for what in any bills passed ..and vote accordingly to change the makeup of politicans that are deep in bed with lobbyist and their wealthy friends. It is the voters who can force change..we voters can not wait for congress to realize just who votes them inot any office.

I find it comical that the community collapsed Rufnex for saying something that they don't agree with. I think this community on msnbc looks at comments that are apposing and simply make a snarly face and click to mark it. I see so many posts on this site that are collapsed for doing nothing more than making a firm opposite argument. Typical liberal censorship. "we don't like what he's saying...it makes sense...shut him down."

Hey Rufnex...you're spot on.

In Quebec Canada where the laws really support unions, when Wal-Mart employees voted to form a union, they closed the store fired everyone and built a new store nearby. The new employees didn't try to form a union they got the message, and many got second jobs to make ends meet.

Clowns arguing about a sheriff in Arizona that tries to do his job, and our federal government that does nothing. Clowns who suggest the Republicans are sending the jobs to China, what an idiotic statement. It was Bill Clinton that signed NAFTA into law, and the subsequent decade and a half saw most the US manufacturing sector leave the country. Of course with the union demands why would they want to stay anyway? We have a White House full of lobbyists and special interest access, and liberals point the fingers at Republicans. The Democratic motto should be, we are hypocrites and so what it is still your fault. What a bunch of complete idiots without a coherent thought among them. If only one would jump off the cliff liberalism would end.

ED -- Yup.

That is precisely why the laws need revision. A corporation should not be allowed to do that.

Unions exist to protect jobs and the people who work at them. Corporations like Wal-Mart want to maximize their profits on the backs of the people who work there. And the big guys have people so terrified about losing their jobs that they won't stand up for themselves. They have their workers just where they want them.

Discussions like this make me laugh. In my experience, the people that work for unions like them pretty well. Business hates them, because they want to pay minimum wage and no benefits, and all the blue collar workers that I've ever heard complaining about unions are jealous that they are working for minimum wage and no benefits.

Unions created the middle class. Attacking them is attacking the middle class, therefore, there is a regressive party (GOP) war on the middle class, by the transitive property.

Any wage earners noticing? I believe republicans actually wish to physically kill every wage earner in this country. Lot of gluttons for self destruction out there.

Let me get this straight..........republicans want to dictate rules to unions and think the unions have too much power...........

BUT, these same republicans vote their own benefits packages including, medical, dental, life, pensions and severance packages and the power they wield over their own benefits and the amounts of monies awarded and coverages included is not too much power in their hands?....this has always been a conflict of interest and mega self serving and no unions involved...just absolute power and greed.

The tax paying public who pays the salaries of these union busting folks, should be deciding the benefits packages for those who work for them....not the other way around.

Such arrogant, such greedy, such self serving power mongers living the life they would deny others...at the expense of these others.

enough already........vote these villians against the 99% out of office....they serve no purpose except to destroy the 99% ability to attain the American Dream while servicing, protecting and increasing the wealth and power of the 1%.

Vote them out of office...........they should be working for us not against us.

How much does it take before those who would support these republicans see what they are actually doing?.....................amazing how some folks refuse to see the truth...is that ego?...blind faith?...or a total disinterest in what is true?..............I guess if they keep it under three syllables folks listen, but bigger words seem too elusive.

What is wrong with people?................pure laziness and apathy........and no brains.

Let he who is free of sin cast the first stone

So Debbie only Republicans in Congress voted for all those perks and benefits? No Democrat support of any kind? Democrats support a welfare nation where everyone has their handout to the government, and Republicans do not. So which is the party of laziness and apathy again?

If unions weren't sucking the public sector, local and state governments dry thanks to our corrupt political system that allows politicians to dole out taxpayer money for favors, there would be no more unions. Unions have driven most companies from our shores where the cost of doing business made it impossible to compete.

The Democratic Party is in bed with unions, and there is no better proof then the enormous payout they received in the Obama auto bailout while investors got screwed. The unions wield tremendous political power with other peoples money, just like our politicians in Washington. If the Democrats are so concerned with union rights, then why hasn't Obama given collective bargaining rights back to Federal Union members?

txmom32

Joining a union should be an option not a demand by the federal government and Unions. No good worker should be ruled out because they do not wish to join.

Okay txmom32 let's say there's one company that employs union and non-union workers. The worker has the option of belonging and paying dues. So are the non-union workers going to enjoy the same benefits that the union fights for? Are they going to get the same insurance, holiday pay, vacation and overtime pay?

I think that's what upsets me the most....people who vote Republican yet enjoy all the benefits provided by unions. People who live marginal lives sucking off social programs fought for by Democrats. I'm almost ready to vote Republican if they promise to follow through on the 1 trillion dollar cut to medicaid on EVERYONE between the ages of 16-65. Let them cut all funding on the marginal people housing the handicapped and making a nice living off of it. Cut unemployment benefits to no longer than 8 weeks. Some days I really wish the Republican voters would get EVERYTHING they vote for and some days I'm ready to vote Republican to help make that happen!

Debbie give me a break.

What you're talking about is a political matter that encompasses nearly everyone in politics. Whenever a measure is put on the table to reduce any benefits of the political ruling class, democrats are the first ones to jump up and start shooting it down. They're all guilty to some extent but to say that Republicans are solely responsible for those types of actions is a completely uninformed argument. Also using the 99% tag line is about as "blind sheep" rhetoric as you can get. In the world of liberals, especially the current administration, there are only two classes that need to be established; the elite ruling class and the poor working class.

If you believe that barack didn't have money and struggled to pay off student loans you are demonstrating a perfect example of blind faith. You are the one that's uninformed and clearly hasn't obtained an education about who the leader of this country is and what the liberal philosophy is really all about. Disinterest of what is true? Really? Read baracks books, find out who he is and what he wants to do to this country and then hit me up for a discussion about what is true.

Rico...I think what you would find is that companies will follow the Federal guidelines for fair employment it happens all of the time in right to work states. I think you would find that workers will be satisfied with benefits offered by their employers so that they can compete in the market place....What do employers want...the best and the brightest in a specific skill set. Businesses really do not want to add the burden of cumbersome contracts that add to their net expense. The only person that a Union serves are those who cannot compete in the market place and the attorneys that make big bucks to run the Unions. If an employee is not bright enough to discern what a company offers for a specific position then perhaps they should be picking up trash on the side of the road...maybe they can flip burgers or clean houses.

Why should our Government be allowed to favor Union Labor and overtly discriminating against nonunion labor when a candidate is equally skilled to do a job. Our Government should not discriminate against individuals who can do the job as effectively and under the already available Department of Labor guidelines for employment. WE...the Government of the United States....are overpaying every time the demand Union over Independent labor in this country. Basically we are elevating those who are too stupid to advocate for themselves. Let's stop demanding dependent minded individuals for jobs that may require some skill and elevate those who can actually think for themselves.

Debbie

the "richest" Congressmen are democrats , ergo you post is , well , you get the picture

"All of this anger at "the rich"…except it isn't "the rich" at all, it is the Republican "rich"… if you are a "progressive" – you get a pass.

7 out of the top 10 richest members of Congress are Democrats. The wealth of those 7 ($570.3 million) is greater than the total of the lower 40 ($489.8 million), Republican and Democrat.

There are more Republicans on the list, 31 out of 50, and the total of those 31 is greater than the Democrats ($906.16 million to $712.46 million) but the average wealth per member of the 19 Democrats is over $8.2 million more than the 31 Republicans"

nice try though

Rico

"So are the non-union workers going to enjoy the same benefits that the union fights for? Are they going to get the same insurance, holiday pay, vacation and overtime pay?"

no , they wouldn't , they would make their own employment deal , any more questions? , every been employed?, that is how it works so I would venture a guess the answer is no.

"if you have to ask", you should, once in awhile, since you appear to know very little.

There is no "anger at the rich". There is no "jealous of the rich". Unless you are talking about the low income, average Republican voter, who is jealous, and waiting for that winning lottery ticket so they can join "the club".

Much to contrary, what Democrats are angry about is that someone making a million dollars a year pays taxes at a percentage of their income that is half than the amount of someone that makes 80 thousand a year. And that affects you too, assuming you actually make enough of an income to pay income tax, which probably only a small proportion of Republican voters do.

If you have to ask I was commenting on Txmom32's comment #1.5

"Joining a union should be an option not a demand by the federal government and Unions. No good worker should be ruled out because they do not wish to join"

and trying to imagine two people doing the same job side by side, day after day...one union one non-union.

Let me tell you about my experience. The large company I worked for had union workers and non-union management. They started hiring non-union workers to do the same job I did only they changed the title of the position to make it sound like a management. Different pay scale, different benefits. Guess who cried and moaned and was filled with resentment and jealousy....it wasn't the union workers.

If you people don't want to pay union dues, if you hate the union because they are so corrupt, if you think all union workers are fat, lazy and stupid.....don't hire on to a union position. If you are working a union position and still vote republican by all means quit! And if you are a republican working a marginal job and jealous of your middle class union brothers and sisters and want to bring them down just remember if we fall you are not going to keep the little that you have now....we'll be taking your spot on the socio-economic ladder and you are going to move down a step or two. How does THAT picture work for you?

Rico....not sure I buy into your scenario but did you ever stop to think that the non-union Management position were created to foster employees who would possibly grow with the company into positions that would be a conflict of interest for a "Union" worker.

As it happens....I live in a right to work state we seem to be doing pretty well for that fact. What companies do not spend to meet the greed of Unions they can actually use to create a fair and reasonable compensation packages for their employees. If an employer is unreasonable there is nothing stopping any worker from looking elsewhere for employment that would more suit them....in turn if an employee is not doing their job or is skating by on anothers effort they can easily be terminated.

".....don't hire on to a union position" , that is the crust of the bisquit , the problem is your union thugs protesting and intimidating like businesses that aren't union , well and the hate speech from morons like Trumpka and Hoffa and that SEIU baffoon Andy Dorkboy

"we'll be taking your spot on the socio-economic ladder and you are going to move down a step or two. How does THAT picture work for you?"

haha...I make more at my place of work in the non-union branch than the equivalent workers do at the union branch of the company that I work for , with the same benefits , so it works out pretty sweet for me , any other questions?

"average Republican voter, who is jealous, and waiting for that winning lottery ticket so they can join "the club"."

ouch! , while you and those like you sit around on your collective azzes and wait for "progressives" to take money from those of us that work for a living and hand it to you so you can bring us all down to your level ergo making things "faior" and "equal" and "socially justicified (I made that word up so as to include some libby speak in the discussion)"

but never you fear , most "average republicans" want everyone , including you , to be successful , mainly so we don't have to pay for your existence but also because it's good for you

"Democrats are angry about is that someone making a million dollars a year pays taxes at a percentage of their income that is half than the amount of someone that makes 80 thousand a year"

they should pay more for the same services? , hmmm , doesn't sound very "socially justicified"

and someone making a million dollars a year ( mostly small business owners) doesn't pay less , you are confusing income from capital gains with payroll taxes , a common mistake , but then that's how the demoncrats have taught it

Rico

I'm not trying to rag on you , you have some valid points ,I'm old enough to have had more than a few jobs , union and non-union , and the union thing does not offer a "better employee" or product or value.

"if you half to ask" you are not engaging your abilities at reasoning. The Bush administration released figures that the average for people making one million dollars a year payed a real tax rate of 17-18% of their income, and someone making 80 thousand dollars a year payed a real tax rate of 33-34%. That is the millionaire paying a rate basically half the rate of a middle class citizen, and that is according to the Bush administration. that includes all income, no doubt, but are you implying that income earned with the sweat of one's brow in an honest days labor should be taxed at a higher rate than the income earned by some wealthy kid of a rich dad, who sits on his backend all day, through dividends or capital gains? My income is a mix of both, but I can't for the life of me understand why what I get with no effort should be taxed so much less than what I get by working. If anything, it would be better if it wre the other way around.

And if you think that every investment that these millionaires make creates jobs, you are truly delusional. Only a small portion of investments made can be classed as entrepreneurial, which will create jobs, but are high risk. The more money someone has the easier it is for them to invest with guaranteed returns and very low risk, but create no jobs, right up to the top, hedge funds, where the buy in is more money than you can even imagine, and the returns through economy killing credit default swaps are huge.

Average republicans enable the swindlers to the tune of their own loss.

txmom32 I had to laugh at this statement:

As it happens....I live in a right to work state we seem to be doing pretty well for that fact. What companies do not spend to meet the greed of Unions they can actually use to create a fair and reasonable compensation packages for their employees.

I live in Texas. I know how well it is and isn't doing. I know that we weren't hit as bad economically as other states. I also know that most of the jobs created here are at or just above minimum wage. I know the stats that say Texas is among the highest of uninsured. I know that the southern, red, right to work states are the highest food stamp states. I know that people here hold down two or three jobs just to make ends meet. I know that the state defers taxes for companies to be headquartered here meaning we have a huge amount of corporate welfare going on. Now tell me again how well the worker is doing here.

If You Have To Ask.....I recently had to have some electrical work done. The man who did it was non-union and somehow we started talking unions. His view on it was interesting. He said that by hiring a union electrician it may take longer to get the job done but you KNOW it's going to be done right. The non-union worker will work faster but you are not guaranteed that it'll be done to a high standard. I wonder if this has anything to do with the apprenticeships offered by unions?

Rick-3416939-

true both parties participate in this conflicting game....but only one party wants to take away bargaining rights from the 99%.

See, there is a difference.........and "oh yeah, well they do it too"..doesn't cut when one party defends the 99% and one party seems he-- bent on destroying it.

George then your not seeing much at all. Do you really think that last Boeing jet you flew on was built by people NOT doing their job! Don't characterize millions of people based on the behavior of a few. Otherwise it gives me license to call all conservatives Nazi's because there are Neo Nazi's out there who claim to be conservatives.

For a reality Check, look into what Sergio Marchione has to say about American workers at Chyrsler.

He has to say stuff like that, he is working under the Union thumb that Mr. Obama set up when he gave the UAW a large interest in both GM and Chrysler over the old stock holders. How would I know this. gosh I dont know, perhaps I work for one of the auto manufactures.

Jolly , Then you would be wrong and look like a hillbilly hick, Mr. Marchione was interviewed by Sixty Minutes at length. He is turning Chyrsler around and he had nothing but praise for its American workers and nothing but graditude for the US governments assistence. It would be nice if Americans had as much respect for their fellow citizens and for their government as he has. But apparently many Americans are just too Fox News stupid to appreciate what is being done for them.

I've heard too many bad things about unions to ever want to work for one.

Give me a break! These repugnants won't stop until they have destroyed America! God forbid the working people of this world have anyone represent them....oh no can't have the slave labor represented! Disgusting!

James

If the last Boeing jet I flew on was built by ONLY UNION workers I would be worried. Who do you think directs those union workers? I work closely with a lot of Boeing employees, they are all good people.The most common complaint I hear is how the union workers think only of themselves and not the company. Boeing treats all of their employees very fair. In fact, Boeing needed to to build a factory in a non-union state in order to compete in the world market. And it wasn't the non-union employees who made that move necessary.

Got news for you Republicans, union workers are working Americans that VOTE. They have families that VOTE.

With the war on unions, war on women, and war on immigration, who is left in your base. Angry old white guys?

This legislation should pass. How can our corporate masters continue to drive down the American standard of living with these pesky unions in the way? There are only a few left. Once they are gone we can pick up the pace of transforming the US into a third world country.

Oh my gosh, anti union republicans are a sick twisted bunch. Always blaming others, never taking responsibility for themselves.

James

The United Auto Workers union would eventually own 55% of the stock in a restructured Chrysler LLC under the deal reached by the union and the auto maker, according to a summary of the agreement that was reviewed by the Wall Street Journal.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124087751929461535.html

Now isn't that what jolly said?

It is Obama that is driving down the standard of living by devaluing the dollar. Ever since democrats took over congress the rich have gotten richer and the poor poorer yet the liberal lemmings gleefully support their own destruction. Obama brags about having a record number of food stamps yet you support him, typical socialist mentality - punish success and reward failure.

Phil, Obama is responsible for working class wages being stagnant since 1980. Wake up and smell the foodstamps. They may be in your future. The well financed Republicorp will see to it that we will all be making Chinese wages.

You just like to benefit from all the Unions have fought for like the 40 hour week, paid overtime, paid time off for sick leave or vacation, OSHA protection and the list goes on. Kill the Unions and you will be back to 19th century labor conditions for the vast majority of workers in a few years.

Vahalla hill - The democrats are not in charge of the congress, the republicans are. You have no clue, so please stay out of the conversation. When has Obama bragged about food stamps?

You people actually are still trying to blame him for this economy. If it was not for this President, we, would have faulted on our debt and a world wide economic crisis was at our door step.

I believe in order to save this country, we will all need to sacrifice, pay a little higher tax (including middle and lower classes.) but especially the super wealthy. If they can give someone $10,000,000 for their super pac; maybe they could affor to throw a little money in for the country too.

Bill

Maybe YOU should stay out of the conversation. You have no clue. Democrats still have the power in Congress. Just ask Harry.

The Republicans keep trying to get things done but everything hits the Senate and gets shelved.

The first thing the Communists did was to do away with the Trade Unions.

The first thing the Fascists did was to do away with the Trade Unions.

The first thing the Nazis did was to do away with the Trade Unions.

Now it is a Republican thing to do away with the Trade Unions.

What is next?

SC...

I would suggest you brush up on your history...

"Before everything else, the trades unions are necessary as building stones for the future economic parliament"

Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol 2. Chapter 12

(Hitler came to power as a pro-Union Socialist. )

Jolly old soul./ I worked for the auto manufactures for a few years and I considered the U.A.W. one of the best of the unions and if ,as you claim, that you did too I am sure that you would , therefore I do not believe you.

Diogenes22,

Just like the Republicans, Hilter said what was needed to gain support from the uneducated masses. He was never a socialist. He was a corporate fascist. The trade unions were quick to outlawed.

Read the rest of Mein Kampf, it was a jumble of contradictions and garbage.

Hey James, explain something to me. I get pissed when I drive across this country and see foreign cars outnumbering American cars. I'm talking about the big money...if the big money goes overseas it's a foreign car. I don't care if part of an American company car is built in Mexico. Anyway, I'm a GM guy from a long line of GM family members. I love this country and I love the workers in this country. I believe PRIVATE SECTOR unions had a huge purpose and a huge part in building this country. BUT...

The model belief of nearly every hard core liberal union worker I know is that "the man" or the business owner is the enemy. He/she is just a rich greedy slob who's making their money on the backs of the union workers. Okay, are you with me so far...sound familiar? Now, a guy starts a small...oh I don't know, lets say, EDM shop with his brother. They work the phones, the street, the billing, the maintenance, the books, the brooms, the transportation etc. They struggle through one or two customers, just enough to pay the bills. Then a couple of years have passed and they've hired two guys to help them out. They pay them going rates and the guys are happy to have a gig. Then after about four or five years they are employing about 8 people and are still working 70+ hours per week but they are starting to take a little more bread and they start to get excited about what the future may hold.

Then at the end of their sixth year they land a really good contract with a tier one and expand "rapidly". Because the contract is so large they commit to an additional building with additional machinery and inventory, additional trucks, drivers, machinists etc. They are now responsible for around 40 employees including a small office staff and now they're pulling 80+ hours a week for the next couple of years. Now remember, all of that expansion came from loans...it's not like they were a Harvard law professor who wrote a book and made a million.

Okay, so now it's been 10 years and the machine is starting to run pretty smoothly. They've risked everything including their time to build a dream and the money is starting to come in. They provide a workout room for their workers, awesome company parties and picnics for the families. They contribute to a 401 and offer shared healthcare programs. Things are looking really good and for the first time in five years they both take a bump in salary. They know their monetary commitments are huge so they stay conservative with their raise.

Now things grow steadily and they maintain their contract for several more years and wisely pay off a large chunk of debt and begin to reap some serious rewards for their efforts. They are down to 50 hours per week and start to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

Here's the part I don't understand. At what point does the international machinists union have a right to organize their workers and convince them that the bosses are horrible people because they're rich business owning slobs? You mean to tell me that you think it's okay for someone to rise up against those ball busting men and put terms on a table and then potentially strike that business when the real blood sweat and tears came from them and not the workers. Dude you have obviously never owned anything from the ground up and understood the true appreciation for the rewards that Gods honest commitment and thankless, payless hard work provides.

One more point that I need you to clarify;

Why is it when private business's take lavish trips with money that the company earned it's considered by you and those like you to be the fat, rich business owning corporate American slobs just doing business as usual. BUT when union leaders and higher ups go to, oooh I don't know, say... Disney world and stay in the park at some of the most lavish hotels with travel expenses, lodging and meals paid by the union. It's just fine and dandy? Seriously, answer me that. The unions don't make money they take money from the membership which is a mandatory membership based on the desire to work somewhere. It's the biggest mob mentality I've ever seen. Capone wishes he would have thought of it. So in your opinion and those like you, it's not okay for a group of people that produced something to spend the money how they want, but it is okay for union workers to be forced to contribute a portion of their money to something that provide enormous perks for it's higher ups just the same?

I'm just trying to figure you guys out. Quite frankly it's hypocrisy and I'm not giving an example based on opinion. The Disney stuff, or Toronto, or New York, or Vegas, etc, etc. is very real and it's all paid with union dues. So again, explain to me how any of this is justified.

The popularity of unions are dying slowly. They aren't going anywhere for a long time but they do not serve the purpose that they were formed to serve. There is massive corruption, massive political crossover and they need a big PR boost sometime soon because I'm telling you, the country (right or wrong) is starting to only see unions as an intricate part of an already overly corrupt political system. I'll boil it down to this; if I want to work somewhere and I have to join a union to do it, then a portion of my money goes to a political party that I don't believe in and I see my money also going to lavish union leader lifestyles...I'm starting my own business, and it aint gonna be union.

Public unions need to go, private unions need to get their act together or they're going to end up extinct.

"lavish union leader lifestyles"

The highest paid union leader is also the head of the largest union in the U.S. His income? $300,000.

How much are these poor abused CEO's pulling in when they run an operation with 1.5 million people?

Unions ARE the members. Officers are ELECTED. They NEGOTIATE for workers benefits.

Sounds like a true democracy to me.

system broke.. Here is the first of many union leaders making over $300,000

Union: National Education Association
Membership: 3.2 million
Assets: $216 million
The NEA, representing most of the nation's teachers, has 31 headquarters officers and employees who earn over $200,000. The president, Dennis Van Roekel, received $397,721 in salary and benefits. Of the $3.7 million NEA spent on political activities in the last election cycle, 98 percent went to Democratic candidates. The NEA has 98,000 members in Wisconsin. Before taking the helm in 2008, Van Roekel received pay increases averaging more than 4 percent a year as NEA vice president. In 2009, public school teachers were paid a national average of $54,319 and received raises ranging from 2 percent to 4 percent over the previous five years.

Read more: #ixzz1t18C7Obj

Abbie

And the executive compensation on another organization with 98,000 people? Kraft foods. (World wide). Total executive compensation? $41,000,000. That's for only 6 executives.

Tell me about overpaid union execs in an organization with 3.2 million people again?

System,

Those companies produce something. The amount of money they make is only limited to what they produce, market, and sell. The sky's the limit...because this is America. According to the 99% rhetoric, the 300k salary you just described is part of the fat cat evil 1%. So you have just demonstrated that the union leader who's being paid from forced dues is part of the 1% bad guys. I don't care what the spread is, you're talking apples and oranges. One is a private company who's makes money. The other is an organization that is political and takes money.

Now all of that being said you didn't answer my question about the trips and expenses paid out of union dues for families to live it up in varies places. The forklift driver is never invited to these trips but he's directly paying for them. It's an un-winnable argument by you guys. It's hypocrisy and I have yet to find ANYONE who can justifiably articulate the logic behind it. If it were truly for the worker the meetings would take place at rented VFW halls in non-tourist areas and the attendees would stay at a motel 6 or something under $70 per night. But they don't, so it's a moot point.

Oh, and I never said anything about "over-paid". I think people should make what they can in this country. You guys are the ones who want limits on how successful someone can be. But again, when someone whether in the union or the government is getting perks from forcefully taking money from people and then spending it in any luxurious fashion it's wrong. Nobody HAS to buy Kraft foods, but everyone HAS to pay union dues to work at union facilities which monopolize many places of employment in this country.

Some Questions and Answers:

Unions are big business. How did they get that way? They found a need and they filled it. Does the need still exist? I'd say more than ever. Should they take an ownership stake in companies? Yes, but only as a last resort. Are Unions socialism? No. Is the average Union Worker as intelligent as the Average Manager? Yes. Do workers deserve a decent and sustainable life style and does that benefit the company? Yes. Should a full time worker earn a "living wage"? Yes.

Why does the need still exist? Human nature is greedy. Will the need ever go away? No.

Why does the need still exist? Human nature is greedy. Will the need ever go away? No

If the unions are so great, why the rush to hold elections so quickly without allowing companies to respond?

Wac,
What did Enron produce? (Bad example of greed and fraud on a massive scale) There are service businesses out there.

Who earned the profits for Kraft? The employees. Remember them? The ones that actually do the labor.

The service business unions are in negotiate wages, benefits, and safety rules for its members. They do not dictate how to run the business. That's right wing talking points.

Tell me how the greedy in parts of this country didn't fight a civil war to maintain the cheapest labor of all. If they could still have that system, they would. Good for profits!

Look at the growing gap in income disparity in this country. While $300,000 is a nice salary, it's hardly the 1%.

The nlrb is not designed to care for the individual worker but the union they work for.

Why do you think a small minority of the workforce should dictate what is best for this country. If you eliminate public sector unions, only 6.9% (BLS Union Member Summary January 2012) of the workforce is represented by unions.

Why do you think a small number of rich Republicans should dictate what's best for this country?

Eric, what is "rich" to you? Is it that small business owner who has 10 - 15 employees? Is it the business owner who has a chain of convenience stores? These are the people who are against these types of rules because they can ultimately jurt their business and many who work for them.

Do you think it should be those "rich" democrats who should decide what is best for this country?

Well bob1/28 maybe I am retired because I cannot allow my union pension spent on obammys campaign. Tell me why I would vote for someone that is taking away my job "powerplants and refineries" for green energy?? Tell me why I would vote for someone that is going to take away my job "shipbuilder" to reduce the Military?? As for my monies I was not a shop employee and have had more than my share of layoffs. Also where was the union when I got hurt on the job?? They left me hanging in fear of losing another contractor. Take your union babble to some uneducated laborer and they might believe how great it is but I have been there and its not.

Eric, do you think a small group of rich democrats should dictate what's best for America?

Soros is beyond evil and Buffet wants higher taxes yet is being sued over $350 billion owed taxes. The Hollywood elite regularly abuse their workers, many movies are made in third world countries to avoid American unions. Even Michael Moore doesn't use union workers on his movies.

As usual with liberals, it's do what I say, not what I do.

CAr556

Sounds like you are crying SOUR GRAPES !!!

There are good unions and bad unions, just as there are good employers and bad employers. As for you getting hurt on the job, that should have been taken care of by workers comp for starters.

As for the ship building industry, that went out the window in the 1960's . As for the other industries you mentioned . A lot of those jobs are still there . Such as retrofitting the plants to bring them up to today's standards . But nothing happens because the industry is to cheep to spend the money necessary to do the job . Also good unions run their own training schools to bring their members up to national standards.

bob

Aar556

I forgot to mention unions welfare funds .

Your vacation pay , sick pay , health care , hospital coverage , eye glass coverage and perscription drug coverage all come from that fund . Just remember these things your employer would never ever offer to you . Look back at history . Unions put an end to the company store and town that coal miners had to deal with . Also they fought for safer working conditions and shorter shifts for the miners . No more dawn to dusk work days .

bob

To equate Soros and CEO's is laughable. Soros is evil? Buffet is being sued? When did the IRS have the right to sue? Buffet and the IRS are seeking a clarification of tax law. Why is everyone who disagrees with the t-baggs evil? Liberals don't even have to mock you. You do it to yourselves.

Tell me, why is it that the strongest economy in Europe is almost uniformly unionized? Unions are not either good or bad, just like people. Unions have more to do with balance of power and equitable treatment of all people.

Unions have less to do with the laziness of workers than the laziness of management. Successful management depends fomenting a partnership with labor instead of making decrees from up on high. But that, of course, is what imperialistic Republicans like whether it be business executives or Presidencies.

Crazy A A t y ./Just one small comment .Well put !

Car 556 You gave yourself away as a racist when you wrote "Obammy"

thanks ed but guess again I am an American Indian then so be it otherwise go back to where you came.

car556. American Indians can't be racists? And, why do you not refer to yourself as Native Americans.

Most do.

All they're trying to do is give businesses time to react to union activity (and sometimes thuggery). If you have a problem with that, then you obviously think union arguments are weak and can't stand debate.

Teabaggers are responsible for the "sad state of affairs our country is in"? A group that's been around for a three years or so is responsible for NAFTA, China's favored nation status, and decades of out-of-control govt spending? They voted for the stimulus and to reduce payroll deductions to a pair of very important programs that are in fiscal trouble? They voted to start two expensive wars a decade ago?

Talk about having blinders on.

How much time do they need numbnut! Perhaps they should become part of the congress they seem to have a lot of time to do NOTHING! The only reason they obstruct is the greedy business owners don't want to have to pay decent wages or anything else for that matter. They would rather have a 13 yr old from China do their work for .50 cents a day!! Greed plain and simple GREEDY BASTARDS!

I would say that business need enough time to present facts about the business and what it takes to be profitable.

If I were a business owner and the employees wanted to unionize, I would like to have ample time to point out that some of them won't be there after the vote because in order to accommodate the contract, people would be let go.

Hmmm, how come they never cut back on management staff? Always the workers. Hmmmmm.

Maybe because management staff in small companies are the owners.

And you know what? If all business acted in that way unions would disapear on their own because they would not be needed. As long as there are Koch suckers around there will be a need for unions.

SumFunEh?,

And I'm sure you have no problems with your employees. But take the other Bookem'Danno above your post. See, if his employees wanted a union "he would point out that some of them would have to be let go". It's alright for him to put a veiled threat of being "let go" if you want a union and he doesn't. Of course he would never "intentionaly delay things to ward off such a event happening in his company. Right. NOT! Unfortunately, not all employers are as concerned about their employees as you seem. To them it's make the almighty dollar regardless of caring or wanting long term employees. Hence, why you even have unions to begin with.

Interesting... you answer is extortion... didn't work for the air traffic controllers did it? Reagan called their bluff and sent them packing... All that it would have taken to kill Obozocare would have been doctors on strike... think about that... what do we need more.. politicians or doctors... luckily for you and your socialist ilk, doctors are dedicated professionals who have taken an oath to do good... but there's still time for them to change their mind... after all, they're the nasty greedy rich you class envy idiots loathe.

The air traffic controllers are federal employees. The Federal Government has the ultimate say over them, not so with other labor unions. It would be difficult if not impossible for the Doctors to strike as a group, its against their own oath, and I doubt that a majority of them oppose ACA in any case.

What I am against is your constant mindless bashing of Unions, the name calling, and the disrespect you show towards your fellow hardworking Americans. If you have a job, there is not doubt that your wages and benefits have been improved, whether you like it or not, by the hard fought battles that Labor Unions engaged in. And then there is the presumptive class warfare you can't help but mouth off about when you don't know a thing about me.

I am not interested in extortion, I'd like Labor Unions to demonstrate their strength, and demand the respect they deserve, because apparently playing nice isn't working with petty little people who think corporations are kindly old benevolent societies.

Not all Doctors are Rich !!! But most are over worked !!

bob

My doctors group has refused to participate in the HRC. They decided they will take NO insurance and reduced their visit costs to $40 per visit. They try to give out free samples of prescriptions if they have them. Ive been taking meds that would cost me $400 per month. But the Dr. has been able to get me through the entire thing on samples.

Fed up - your the greedy bastard! Class envy my butt! If you knew anything at all besides what you are fed you would see that your post is as ignorant as you are!!

It would only be 6.9% of the workforce who would strike. There is over 8% unemployment. If all the union members went on strike and we replaced them with those who were unemployed, we may come out ahead.

...

jollyoldsoul: Sounds pretty cool. What about expensive stuff? I don't know what kind of docs you're talking about, but do they do any surgeries?

Unions are pure evil, they lie to workers to get voted in. Where my wife worked they promised workers a huge raise if they got voted in. Once they were everyones wages dropped because they had to honor the current contract. Management tried to warn them but union propaganda carried the day. Needless to say that was the ONLY facility that went union. Shortening the timeframe would only make abuses like this more common.

I've worked for unions, if I owned a business that went union I'd shut it down and fire everybody. I was actually planning to open a small business until Obama got in. I put my investments overseas instead.

Phil: why don't you follow your investments??????????????????

Blinders on? Hey tea baggers it was a the republicans that started the Iraq and Afghan Wars. They lied and you know it, so why are you guys blaming democrats and the current president for the fix we are in. Sending in complete armies and the entire military to track down 19 criminals and a few of thier true believers was an insane response to 911.

Your just flat out plain crazy, and, seem to be so out of touch with the real world and seem to believe that the idiot people you elect to congress are doing anything but Abortion legislation, no job bills, no counter solution to health care, no ideals on how to get the country moving forward, just blaming anyone but conservaties like that West character who is now talking about 78 communist in congress? There probably is not that many communist in the whole world. It is a failed philosophy and is dead; what we are trying to do is get this country moving again and conservatives should help out with real ideals, real propolsals and actuallyl working with their neighbors to find solutions to these big problems in this country.

Valhalla, There you go again. Evil, Evil, Evil. Is that the only adjective you know or are you just schizophrenic?

Hey Phil,

Take your supposed "job creator" ass along with your chopstiks to China. Just another supply side tinkle downer, who after taking advantage of the American system as it used to exist in the fifties and sixties, decide now to cut that same support to subsequent generations. I know I know you did it all with your "haaard work" and union people hate your "freedoms". Your pappy paid far more in taxes and didn't whine about it, maybe because those same workers did most of the heavy lifting protecting your ASSets from the Nazi's.

Vahalla Phil,who do you think the unions are,the workers are the unions,how can workers lie to themselves.

Hmmmmm....... Might want to watch the Detroit Free press for the next month. Now that the City of Detroit is officially broke and under a consent decree, they will be paring down the public union employees and benefits. a broke city with 5k employees and 11k retirees isnt going to fly. The New Black Panthers have threatened to burn Detroit to the ground (dont know why they were not arrested). It has the feel of pre riot conditions around here. They unions want Mr Obama to bail out Detroit, the Democratic leaders have told Rev Al and Jesse to stay out of this. They fear the list of cities that will want money will break the US gov. Just as a reminder in the past 4 weeks over 22 people have been murdered in Detroit. Mostly black on black crimes. Including a young women shot in the back walking her child and two 20 year old stuffed in a trunk then excuted, and the Sanford Fla. case makes headlines.

AMEN! Great post!

Retarded post, it is liberals who are evil. Has 2010 taught you nothing? What part of shellacking did you not understand? We the people are fed up with this socialist crap.

Some idiot posted earlier that unoin members vote. Well guess what, non union members vote as well and we outnumber you a dozen to one.

Valhalla Phil, no one is evil here. It is just a idealogy difference not good vs evil. If your group was willing to bargain and work with progressives, the country could and probably would get better, but this my way or the highway and no compromise is nonsensical.

You must know someone who is on social security, or medicare, or got a student loan to get through college. I bet you even have a family member who might have needed unemployment checks to keep their lives together. Do you know why they had to start medicare? No one was insuring the seniors, that would include the "Greatest Generation" I hear you all speak so well of - those programs, all those programs are progressive ideals and if it were not for those programs, the life expectency in this coutry would drop like a brick.

Phik, Phil, Phil

Surely you did not mean that false equivalency equating the 2010 mid term with getting rid of those evil liberals. If you did you are one stupid person. Take a look at history and you will find that this is typical. It even happened to W.

Take a look at history and you will find that this is typical. It even happened to W.

It is typical for the President's party to lose seats in a midterm. In fact the average is around 31 house seats and less than 2 senate seats. The 2010 election was "historical" as the sitting party lost far more seats. The GOP gained 63 seats in 2010.

I'm glad we were able to take a look at history.

You really don't know much about unions then MLH. The last year of full production, 1997, for a Union mine in SE KY for ARCH Minerals, 284 union miners produced over 6 million CLEAN (almost 8 million raw tons) tons of coal and shipped it. They led ALL ARCH Minerals divisions for production, INCLUDING all their non-union operations.

The coal for that mine ran out and ARCH didn't want a union at any price so they shuttered the mine and leased out their other coal lands to non-union subsidiaries so they could do away with the union! They didn't want their workers to have union benefits and that way they did away with any extra vacation days, health benefits, seniority, and they could fire for any cause what so ever. Now a worker had better hope they don't get hurt or they're fired, no ifs, ands, or buts.

Nuts, ARCH Minerals isn't on the exchanges or I'd buy their stock. Sounds like a well run company. Sorry lady, I've worked for unions. I've seen them destroy too many industries. They are bankrupting governments as we speak.

Yea. Take us back to the 1700's, 1800's when it was permissible for some Companies to have the Governors call out the Militia against workers. Happened in many States and that cost the lives of the workers who protested unsafe working conditions, low wages, etc.

Republicans are against the EPA, OSHA, and many more of such Agencies. In addition, they are against the Fair Wage Act, Civil Rights, and many more of your rights. Why? Just look around.

phill...and u are from where? and you are how old? What unions DID u "work for"

I think you like to stir things up with half truths...just like a Teabagger. Get a job. if u can and this time hold on to it.

During your lifetime, Jeff, we in American had an advantage of many countries being decimated post WWII and were not able to compete. As globalization has taken place, the antequated ideas of many in this country don't allow for our manufacturing to flourish. Because of unwillingness to understand business needs, unions had a tendancy to bring about the changes in manufacturing we see today.

Never mind.

It wasn't unions that killed the business's Jeff, it was all the outsourcing that was allowed to happen! When they can send the work to China or India and get it done for 2 dollars a day there is no way America can compete and have a decent standard of living.

No Nora, it was unions. I personally witnessed the destruction of the steel industry as I was a union member at the time. Because of "work rules" I was only allowed to work AT MOST 40 minutes a day. I was ordered by other union workers to make faulty repairs so the system would break down frequently, (job security).

Strikes also crippled the industry until it finally imploded.

If you weren't so blinded by your propaganda you would have seen all the same crap going on at GM decades later. Unions are like a cancer, they systematically weaken their host until they kill it.

Global Economy = Global Standard of Living.

Chinese workers make less than a dollar an hour. Our standard of living is not competitive in a global economy and will decline until it is.

Outlaw unions, cut the corporate tax rate to zero, eliminate the minimum wage, overtime, OSHA, child labor laws etc etc... and GUESS WHAT?

Chinese STILL work for less than a dollar an hour, and they STILL get the jobs.

Vahalla Phil - You are a liar. I have also worked in union situations and about 90% of those people worked a lot harder than 40 minutes a day, and, no one I ever worked with ever told me to do anything like what you are implying.

Like there is no corruption in non union work forces, or in corporations, or maybe even in republican politics there has never been any corruption. What do you think, that we are all stupid?

I work for a private sector union right now. Here is a little reality check for y'all: If a member doesn't work hard on the job, the member does not get new calls. Showing up 15 minutes late will get you sent home and replaced. Do that 3 or 4 times in a year and you lose your membership, which by the way takes a 6 year commitment through an internationally recognized training apprenticeship. Creating any kind of trouble on any job, from verbal abuse to sexual harassment, costs your membership. Our leadership is more strict on workplace rules and productivity than most of the employers who use us. Our guys and gals are the most qualified workers in the field, as our employers routinely tell us. And the best part for the employer is that since we have a highly trained labor pool, they know the job will be done right and on time, even if some workers call in sick, or can't get over the bridge, etc.

What we get for our large time investment and rock solid work ethic are: an actual, living wage, good health care, and a fully-funded retirement pension (remember those?).

Sorry to interrupt, now back to 'unions are evil, cuz Fox tells me so.'

Jeff.

I've heard that the unions are the cause of all the outsourcing in the last 35 years.

How is it the unions are but 7% of private industry, yet 93% non union jobs are being outsourced?

It couldn't be greed...

Over the past 25 years there has been a shift in the Unions going from 40% private to 20% and the government going up from 20% for 40%. The UAW did not kill the US auto industy? Did you know that Honda and Toyotas made here use more made in the USA parts in the production of their cars than the US makers? Higher wages, Benefits, with parts from China. Time for the unions to go

And we are supposed to believe you? NOT! Your name along with your hateful post tells me all I need to know about you. And trust in what you say is not on the list. Really, get some help with all that hate you seem to have.

Obama,

I noticed that you're concerned about "BIG LABOR" and the "UNION BOSSES" but not bothered one tiny little bit by Big Business and the Capitalist Bosses.

The people who stand up for the working people of America are "vermin"?????

That's what the NAZI's called the Jews, who were entirely responcible for everything that went wrong in the history of Germany.

I think you need to take a break from FUX propaganda, and visit reality from time to time.

OL...you tell half truths...just like Fox. I bet yer teabagging mo-ma is sooo proud. Give it a rest. If you worked at a job...any job as hard as most folks, you would know better. Sad, Sick! Stop with the Reps/teas rants and get a life. The Coch Bro. are are pulling the strings for the "NEW' Repub. party. Good luck with that in Nov.

Funny. A little truth really brings out the knuckle dragging union thugs in force! The FACT is that Obama has packed the NLRB with ex-union types who had unions help write these new rules that only dems and thick-necked union thugs like.

Well said Mad Independent!

I have never worked for a union but have had to deal with them. Not in a good way either, having to spend 3 hours to do a 10 min job. Yes I agree the unions at one time were a good thing but now they are beginning to hinder the process. Hindering the process costs jobs, Delco in Oak Creek WI was a good example best offer other union reps told him to take it. He thought he could do better and told everyone so. 6 months later the plant was closed.

Now let us look at the taxation of earnings and wages, and if obama has his way because it will reach down that far. Corporations will have to pay more taxes, the worker will have to pay more taxes, he wants everyone to be on a level field. If a corporation, who pay matching taxes on the workers taxes, has to pay more in because the tax rate for the worker went up then the raises or additional workers that might be needed won't happen. You get less in your check, less of a raise and possibly lose your job because the company is not operating with less money or in the red. Every one says Greedy corporations but realize that the people at the top have to make the tough decisions. If it means letting a 100 people go or closing the doors what would you do. Yes they get a bonus but much of that is based on stock if the stock sinks so does the amount they make.

Why did Bush tell us to shop? If we shop we spend money, products are consumed, more products need to be built to replace the ones that were consumed, jobs are maintained or created. If no one buys anything layoffs happen less taxes are paid in, less is purchased makes a bad situation worse. If no one is buying a product then even unions can't stop the layoffs.

Yes I tend to believe that companies getting tax breaks for sending production overseas should not be happening and obama did have a chance to stop it when the dem's had both the house and senate but he didn't which actually didn't help the unions at all. The increase in the cost of shipping from the pacific rim is making China and those areas unattractive due it now at or above the same cost if made here in the USA.

Yes we have a solid workforce but in the climate of the last 3 yrs companies are now afraid to hire, they don't want to layoff people again, especially small business. I had heard of one company had around 200 employees had nice growth then the downturn hit had to layoff just over 100 employees now the owner is afraid to hire more than he has because he felt awful and doesn't want to do it again. He would rather pay the overtime than have to lay one more person off.

Tim are you a union president? I have never read a more stupid comment. I bet you think the republicans and tea party were the reason GM was bankrupt and need a bail out. In truth it was the lazy overpaid UAW workers with outrageous benefits. The UAW members were the greedy bastards you mentioned. Unions are needed by the lazy bastards who show up for work, do as little as possible, and want a big paycheck. Unions certainly protect them. poor

Another example is the Calif Teachers Union. Teachers benefits, retirement, and pay by far exceed private industry despite results that are rated as one of the worst in the country. It is almost impossible to fire a teacher despite everyone knowing he/she is a piece of crap. Caring for students is only union propaganda.

Unions are the reason California is having such a deficit problem. State workers pay, retirement, and benefits when totaled together are out of control. No one can justify how someone who retires will collect more pension than pay when they worked. One retiring fireman received 120% of his pay in pension. Without question all public service workers enjoy the same retirement package. Sad thing many public service functions require 3 people to do a 2 person job. Joke is CalTran workers one to work and one to hold the shovel.

Tom,

I have never read a more stupid comment. Really? Then you should try and read your post! Now, that's stupid IMHO. Hope you don't need the fire department, police, or any other "public" service you use daily. Bet if they disappeared you would not mind if it took two people to do a job when you needed them to just get to work. Because if you didn't get there, believe me your sorry a$$ wouldn't have that job. LOL! Stupid, yeah you called it right, just the wrong person.

Mike good post. Absurd rules are the unions way of adding an additional dues paying member. Unions are a business just like the companies the unionize without producing a product or service to the public. There is no concern for fairness.

Why is unemployment level so high. Unions have driven the cost of US made product so high companies here can not compete with foreign products. I watched over the past few years as the company I worked moved manufacturing overseas due to union wages and constant threats. Company could not compete with cost of imported products. Lost jobs and taxes.

No union dues are "funneled" to the Democratic funds. Donations collected by unions for the purpose of funding political campaigns are required by law to be separate and also are only collected from those that have signed authorizations to donate. And the members that do donate understand that most money will be donated to the Democratic party.

If corporations were required to adhere to the same law, they would have to get every stock holder of record, to sign an authorization form to allow the using of their corporate monies to donate to or otherwise be spent on political campaigns.

And I for one, would like to see this law, as I do not want any of my "corporate money" spent on republican campaign donations.

Did they? How is it class warfare if keeping a school open with 20 or so kids in a class or closing it and having 40 or more kids per class. When the previous budget was passed a small change in the formula was made, schools got screwed, wait that was doyle that changed that a dem... one school system got a whole $5.00 from the state the last year he was in office.

The fact is when a teacher who earns 80k and gets another 40k in health and retirement benefits and the tax payers are footing the bill and they contribute nothing to the 40k or very little ( less than 5%) it taxes the system even more, raises property taxes that help pay them making it hard for other middle class to get ahead. It wasn't about attacking the unions but making so everyone had a shot. Give you an example I used to live in WI I had a house my taxes were 3900 per yr half of that was to support the schools. The taxes kept going up to help cover the cost of teachers benefits and the public workers. All we asked was that they start paying their share.

I don't know about you but who besides you and your company puts into YOUR retirement account, I am the only one besides the company matching funds. I would love it if someone else would pay for my retirement.

My wife is a teacher. Where do they make 80K with 40k in health and retirement benefits? We're moving there.

yes that teacher had years at the system but when she gave my daughter a D on paper that she spent a week working on every day and then another teacher looks at it and says it is A work, she changed school systems and had to take that course over because of the D- she got in that class. Many a student took her for class due to no choice and fought for a D. The only reason we knew it was it was public record and we could check online. Here is a link to the WSJ

or search on line for it..

or go here ..

They took the links out

Where do they make 80k? I really need to know. That's 30k more than my wife with a Bachelors in Biology and a masters in Science Education Curriculum. Of course, we're in Texas, the teaparty utopia.

Typical. My daughter got a D. It's the teacher's fault.

I'm moving there too Sam!

Cork/ I must assume that you lack constructive thinking. Companies want to make the most profit that they can and unions,that represent the work force want to receive the best conditions for their clients i.e. union members. A union official is voted into office and would not survive for too long if the electors decide that he/she,was working both sides of the isle . You are getting your opinions from one side of the argument only.Try and think which side that is.

Yes....many in the south bray about their lower taxes but that only means their welfare recipients mainly feed off programs largely subsidised by those "sorry rusty northern states", states that at least understand the benefits in helping one another thru a time of voter ignorance compliments of the same southern section of the nation that at one time thought it worthy to go to "war" for the sake of keeping slavery in fashion. Invariably the nation endures southern diatribes learned at grandparents knees of how terrible it was the north had the audacity to protect itself from rebellion instigated by the likes of people like yourself 140 years ago, all because your descendants lost a legitimate presidential election to a man named Lincoln. Obama would do well to keep in mind the kind of actions many ignorant southerners are capable of....he has Lincoln as an example.