E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
Pablo Martinez Monsivais / AP
President Barack Obama gestures as he speaks at The Associated Press luncheon during the ASNE Convention, Tuesday, April 3, 2012, in Washington.
Updated at 1:45 p.m. ET In what was billed a “big speech” by the White House, President Barack Obama took to the podium at an Associated Press luncheon on Tuesday to hit hard at the budget put forward by House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan. He called the plan, backed by the Republican-controlled House, a “Trojan horse.”
The president linked Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney to the plan, offering sharp criticism of both. “He said that he’s very supportive of this new budget. And he even called it ‘marvelous,’ which is a word you don’t often hear when it comes to describing the budget.” He added, to laughter and applause, “It’s a word you don’t often hear generally.”
He also swung at congressional Republicans for their approval of the $3.5 trillion plan, saying, “Instead of moderating their views even slightly, the Republicans ... have doubled down and proposed a new budget so far right it makes the ‘Contract with America’ look like the New Deal.”
President Obama says that the House Republicans' recently-revealed budget plan would hurt America's working families and seniors. Watch his entire speech.
Obama said the proposal “breaks our bipartisan agreement and proposes massive new cuts in annual domestic spending.” He insists that it’s “exactly the area where we’ve already cut the most.”
He called the Ryan plan a “prescription for decline” that harms future generations. "It's antithetical to our entire history as a land of opportunity and upward mobility for everybody who's willing to work for it, a place where prosperity doesn't trickle down from the top but grows outward from the heart of the middle class," he said.
First Read: Obama's rebuttal to Ryan (and Romney)
Before the Washington luncheon even ended, Ryan responded to the president's attacks. In a statement, he said, "Like his reckless budgets, today's speech by President Obama is as revealing as it is disappointing: While others lead by offering real solutions, he has chosen to distort the truth and divide Americans in order to distract from his failed record."
He countered that "history will not be kind" to Obama for his "duck and run tactics."
President Obama says the proposed budget by the Republicans so far to the right it makes the Contract to America look like The New Deal.
Outside of Ryan and Romney, Obama contended that the entirety of the Republican Party was attempting to enforce a "radical vision" for America, an environment so extreme that Ronald Reagan wouldn't have succeeded in it.
Obama said, "Ronald Reagan, who as I recall was not accused of being a tax-and-spend socialist, understood repeatedly that when the deficit started to get out of control that for him to make a deal he would have to propose both spending cuts and tax increases ... He did it multiple times. He could not get through a Republican primary today."
Separately, the president commented on the recent oral arguments over his health care overhaul. He believes the Supreme Court justices will uphold the law and isn't planning on contingencies.
Well slashing government doesn't fit well with the liberal progressive agenda, therefor he has to criticize anything that doesn't increase the size and scope of government
In all fairness liberals would happily raise revenue on historically low taxes to pay for taking care of old people and sick children. Interesting republican think that's off limits and these people should fend for themselves...
I just wish his supporters were a little smarter, then we could all have a good laugh together
My bet for the speech: "The Republicans want to hurt struggling middle class families for the gains of the 1%. They want to cut spending on the programs that most Americans depend upon. They want to keep pushing that Bush era tax and spend policy that we can't afford."
What won't be said: "Everybody knows that we need at least another trillion in debt added on to Mr. Ryan's budget proposal to keep everything going. We can't cut anything that might get me votes and we've got to raise corporate taxes, regulate industry such that they have no choices, control the banks, and the wealthy must pay at least 50% federal taxes. Like Mr. Buffet said, it's just common sense. If Congress doesn't pass my spend more plan I think the American people should rise up and "escolate" their efforts to encourage change."
Why do we need additional "revenue" which is a code word for taxes when our government and what it spends is too large in the first place?
I mean can any of you honestly say we get a good bang for our buck?
I also find it insulting to servicemen that Obama and the pentagon want to slash soldiers benefits but not address the problem - spending.
"The Ryan plan is a total joke"
This whole budget thing is a joke.
It is nothing more than a dog and pony show loaded with bull crap for us to swallow period. The 1%er's have bought both sides of the isle. It is a heads I win tails you loose situation for us . No member of congress will go against their puppet masters . In the end we will be sold out and stuck to pay for it .
The economy is the biggest issue wright now. Congress should give the power to print money back to the Treasury department where it belongs, not with big Ben and the Fed. Any new budget that is passed will only kick the can down the road again, and Big Ben will print more funny money again. As long as a really serious budget is not passed and put into place we will face hyperinflation. Along with our country being foreclosed upon. Not a pretty picture is it, but this is what the top 1% want.
Brendan,
Actually it is both Republicans and Democrats that want to slash military benefits. Just ask John McCain and recently retired Joint Chiefs Chair Adm Mike Mullen. They both think that it is fine and dandy to squash future military retiree's benefits, all the while they will continue to collect theirs. Kinda hypocritical isn't it?
This is a symptomatic problem across our society, as many of us who serve didn't do it for the financial gain aspect but for a sense of duty and patriotism. Coupled with decent benefits, we were willing to fore go higher wages to serve our country but even now those concessions are under attack from both sides. How convenient it has become to toss aside the individuals who bleed and sacrifice for this nation while the same corrupt military contractors will continue to reap their exorbitant fees from all of us. And this is what a country in decline truly looks like.
As a sensible, middle of the road person I see the need for drastic reductions in our spending and even some tweaking with many entitlement programs. However, those adjustments must also be made by the richest of our people making some sacrifices as well and it must be led by a Government (Both Federal & States) that exercise good judgment and more efficiently use the taxpayers resources. Waste at all levels is a good portion of what plagues our economy right now.
If we could combine three initiatives and make them stick, we could beat this political deadlock that will crush our nation. First Term limits must be addressed in all phases of politics, without them it has become a free for all of greed and creating a class of career politicians who serve only to line their pockets and serve their corporate masters. Second, campaigns and elections must be funded publicly and within reasonable financial limits. There is no excuse for the amount of money that rains in from both sides, as it is without ethics or morals. Its only purpose is to buy favor and that contradicts the goals of our founding fathers. Finally, third is a simplified tax plan that forces everyone to pay their fair share. It should reward productivity and reinvestment in our country and American workers. Too often it allows huge loopholes abused by only the rich and poorest of people who can benefit from these government giveaways. No one should ever get back more than they contributed and no entity should benefit from moving their business to another nation, especially when they do so only to maximize profits while still taking advantage of the faulty tax laws here in the US.
Alright, I am off my soapbox and feel free to flame me for my views. I only want the nation to survive and her people to flourish, but we have to continuously ask ourselves, do our leaders really want the same?????
Republicans want to continue the policies of "starve the beast".
Cut revenues (Bush tax cuts), and the go into deficit spending (medicare part D, two wars) so that you precipitate a financial crisis that you then use to cut entitlements.
Ryan's plan continues the "trickle down" economics (tell me its raining while you pissing down my neck).
Nothings different, Republicans have learned nothing from the Bush years.
Chris,
I agree with much of what you write. In my opinion if you serve the US in a combat role you should have healthcare paid for free for your life through the VA network.
I do not agree with term limits, as a taxpayer if I like what my legislator is doing I should have the ability to re-elect him as many times as I want.
I do agree campaigns and elections should be done through public funding. No businesses or Unions allowed.
I do not agree with this "fair share" tax plan. It always favors the poor, having the rich pay the majority of the taxes when they use the least benefit. That is not fair. Fair would be everyone having skin in the game no matter how poor. Problem I have with taxes is once they are raised it gives the government access to funds they previously did not have. IF they solve the issue through taxes, do you think they will lower taxes once fixed or just keep the taxes and use those funds for other pet projects?
brendan, your concern for the 1% is misplaced. They are doing quite well, thanks to the republican policies slashing their tax rates for the last few decades. And now they want to double down on the tax breaks to the top. This is one of the biggest causes of the decimation of the middle class.
http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4?op=1
Tax cuts to the top DO NOT WORK. They raise the deficit and do not create jobs.
http://conceptualmath.org/philo/status1.htm
Republicans want to continue the policies of "starve the beast".
Really Eric? Who is starving the beast? Where are the cuts? The proposed Buffet tax (you know, tax the rich) adds 3 billion per year to the treasury, whop-te-do! IT IS NOT A REVENUE ISSUE! IT IS A SPENDING ISSUE! We have to get this under control now.
brendan
You sound like a 1%er to me.
Chris hit the bulls eye with his posting . Term limits are a must . 99% of all tax loop holes must be closed or go to a flat tax with no exceptions . As far as putting skin in the game goes. That is one reason you will not see the draft cumming back any time soon . Congress has not found a way to exempt themselves and their families from it yet.
bob
You all want to cut spending? reduce the size of the military. Any other cuts are useless. The military got us into this debt, two wars aren't free.
Brendan,
I appreciate the response and will offer a rebuttal on your thoughts. The problem with term limits is that most Americans say the same thing that you do.....i.e. they want to keep the "good" representatives in office but somehow we all agree that Congress and many State legislators are not effective or "Good". Don't be disillusioned into believing that term limits have to be the end of an effective leaders career. Nothing prevents an exceptional Mayor from running for Governor, or a good state legislator from running for US Senate or House. What I advocate is preventing any of them from staying to long in one place, as they grow complacent, lazy, and greedy. They become part of the problem and not the solutions.
On the tax discussion, we are in total disagreement apparently. I already spoke to the abuse by the rich and poor of the tax code, all at the expense of most of us middle class taxpayers. When was the last time you received $10K from the government in tax returns after putting in $0? Me either, but there are many rich and poor people who have benefited from the windfall loopholes that the tax codes provide for them to take advantage of at the cost of those of us who work hard to pay for these giveaways. If we could come up with a genuine tax plan that forces everyone to pay their share as noted above, we could couple that initiative with forcing states to stick to their budgets and stop constantly holding their hands out for Federal Tax dollars. This is one huge form of welfare and rewards waste and abuse by each state (Both Red & Blue states are guilty of this). Once States are able to rein in their spending and can identify their waste, the same principles can be applied to the Federal Government. Shouldn't any business big or small use the same effective principles to address waste and cost overruns in order to root them out and minimize them?
And while I appreciate the military perspective, I don't think that I deserve free health care for life for serving 25+ years (or longer when I'm done), as I would rather pay a fair fee in order to ensure that those who have sacrificed much more than I in lifetime disabilities are taken care of for their remainder of time. They and their families need to know that we honor their loss and will do our best to ensure that they do not continue to suffer in light of their substantial sacrifices. Too often our people look out only for their own needs irregardless of how it affects others and this is why we will continue to falter as a nation. We cannot survive as a nation when so many refuse to address these concerns of governance, finances, and the necessary changes needed to continue our way of life. We need to stop looking at so many distractions around the world and realize that our own house needs to be put in order lest we crumble from within.
Actually Jon, the politicians got us into the wars. We only fought them as required by the UCMJ. The waste that occurred that led to the rampant waste of $$$$ was brought to you by corrupt politicians and their handlers. How about we reduce the size of congress first and get people in there who actually give a $hit about our nation before we talk about sending so many real patriots to the unemployment line?
Not only were the wars not free, their true cost were not even addressed to the American public while all the Sabre rattling took place in the halls of Washington. Make no mistake, military action was necessary to address 9/11 but it was escalated to benefit the Industrial Military complex and they certainly don't count military members in their ranks. We are required to fight and die so that they may get richer and richer, but we see little benefit in that other than to listen to others wail about how we need to lose our "benefits". Pick up a bag and gun and fight if you are willing, if not offer real solutions or stand aside and let the adults discuss real and effective change.
@JonSmith,
Hey Jon, Bush spent less money on 2 wars in 8 years than Obama has on at least 3 items (Obamacare, the bailouts and green energy policies) in 3 years... So again tell me who is being irresponsible?
Oh BTW did Bush start the wars on his own or did he go to the American people AFTER we were attacked on 9/11, then go to Congress who voted damn near unanimously to go to war ALL OF WHICH WAS CONSTITUTIONAL, or not?
Did Obama unilatterally attack Lybia and send troops into Uganda without even talking to Congress until after he had done it? BTW he did it unconstitutionally my friend. My issue with all of this is Bush is called a war criminal yet he followed the law, Obama doesn't follow the law and even ordered the execution of an American citizen without due process and is somehow seen as a hero? GET REAL!
Why doesn't Obama criticize the budget submitted by the Democrat-led Senate? Oh, that's right. they haven't submitted one......for 3 years now!
More likely it's because Paul Ryan couldn't find his own ass with two hands and a special "ass" map.
So My guess is that few of you have even read a synopsis of the legislation. So I would be interested in knowing why you have such a problem with the legislation. For instance I like the bill....it will actually work to curb inflation in areas of medical provider no ceiling expense increase when the industry will actually have to react to a premise of what a real free market will allow...medicare/medicaid. The thing missing with medicare and medicaid are measure to monitor these programs for theft and corruption. Would love to see a provision that if a vendor or user are found to have cheated with intent they would no longer have access to public funds.
Another very important provision that is in this bill is the approach to dismantle Fannie and Freddie as was a serious focus in the early 2000's, and opposed vehemently by Democrats. An effort that would have most certainly minimized the impact of no holds barred lending practices of public and private entities. Taking the incentive out of making foolish loans for cash incentives to lending companies. It will allow lending to go back to reasonable practice and encourage interest rates to rest at a realistic number.
Basically, What I see in the Ryan plan is that America and her citizens will have to go back to living within our means and not borrow into the futures of our children and grandchildren. By lowering corporate taxes to 25% we are encouraging even more international industries to office in the United States allowing for more opportunity for employment. By lowering Corporate Rates to business we can actually encourage manufactures to come back the American for production and encourage our US resources to stay in America reducing the cost of materials for an end product.
By consolidating the tax brackets we have and making the Bush Tax Cuts permanent more of America should be responsible for participating in the American recovery. By reducing Federal Taxes for entities like Welfare, medicaid and education it allows States to actually gauge the need they have to support their populations in need and address those needs in a more tailored way to their own markets. If states are not receiving what they need in block grants then they can go directly to their own taxpayers and tax accordingly. If NYC or California wishes to have a wealth penalty tax then they should do just that for their respective states. For States like Texas where no income tax exists then they can raise property taxes or sales taxes or install some sort of immigrant fee to support the needs of our growing population.
So I like the Ryan plan...not because anyone told me to like it but because I bothered to read it and see the possibility it offers our Nation. Yes there are some difficult cuts...but, like those of us who had to weather the downturn...well we all had to make cuts in a personal way...perhaps our Federal Government should have to actually rise to the Barr that the rest of us set.
Yep, here we go....campaign mode AGAIN !!!
Well, Mr. Obama....Just where is your budget since you have been in office ? Did you "fabricate" one through one of your Executive Orders since NO ONE in Congress will vote for your budge proposals ? Or is it because Mr. Obstructionist Reid said "We don't need a budget" ? Or is it because Mrs. Pelosi said "Pay as you go" won't work with your progressive agenda ?
Maybe allowing 1,000,000 Illegal Aliens (Immigrants) to gain citizenship through your Amnesty plan will help balance the budget after they are taken off the Social program feeding tubes.
How many more "deflections" from this administration are going to hit the airways ?
Oh well, back to the MSNBC non-reported GSA meetings in Las Vegas.
The problem will only be fixed when BOTH SIDES compromise. We need to reduce spending and INCREASE revenue. Lets start with term limits. yes, I want to vote in the people I feel I can trust until the end of time, but the truth of the matter is, I have no idea who i can trust because noone is willing to step out of their party's box because they fear they wont be reelected. After 20 years they have hteir people duped into thinking that they are all good and just have no issue taking money for thinking about their wallets. One of the first bills EVERY year they vote on is to give themselves a raise. How about this, Congress wants a raise? Put it to an open vote to the voting people of the US, not the people who stand to gain from it. Your senators, Democrate and republican alike, got raises this year for doing such a great job running this government into the ground. Sound familiar? Yeah, Bank CEOs getting bonuses after their banks got bailed out. The economy doesn't hurt the elected officials, they get paid first and then the rest get to fight over the scraps they leave behind.
Tiresome. It will be the same propaganda, and, laughably, Obama's budget proposals are so bad, so tax heavy and so borrowing heavy that even the democrats gave them a pass. We now have the highest corporate tax on the planet. Guess the evil corporations will have no choice but to continue outsourcing jobs and allowing themselves to be bought by foreign companies. Anhauser Busch is now owned by a Belgium company. You will see more of that happening.
As to Ryan's plan, at least he offered a plan, all the democrats do is demogogue and pressure to raise taxes. Obama panders to the entitlement class, throw Granny under the bus, etc. Well, over 60% of the government money goes to fund unsecured liabilities. The tragedy is how many people paid into SS and Medicare and now, they are going broke. Sorry, but that's a fact. The IOU's from the gov. in SS are breaking the trust and BTW: the money 'borrowed' from SS will be paid back by the government how, exactly?
Obama either doesn't have a clue or else he wants to bancrupt the country.
TO: brendan-4 who wrote:
I assume you don't understand the hypocrisy of your own statement, and your amnesia is obviously getting the best you as well.
I know Republicans don't believe in paying the bills they run up for, say, that little white lie Called the War in Iraq which Bush borrowed billions from China to finance. Don't have any recollection of that? Hmm.
Well that's one reason the United States needs "revenues". As for getting "a good bang for our buck", just what exactly do Republicans expect to get for their "buck"? Could it be, more for Republicans and LESS for everybody else? I think so.
Obama / Biden 2012
It is amusing that the POTUS criticizes the GOP budget while the Congressional Budget Office predicts his own budget will result in the complete collapse of the US economy by 2027. I'm not sure, but that sounds very bad.
http://www.bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/2012/02/twelve-takeaways-cbo%E2%80%99s-2012-budget-and-economic-outlook
Based on your commentary, I assume you particularly liked the part where they aded even more tax cuts and rolled back the defense cuts when the data clearly shows that a significant portion of the current annual deficits are directly accounted for by the Bush tax cuts and financing the Afghan/Iraq wars. (Don't believe me, take a look for yourself here http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3490 or feel free to look for the data yourself - the data isn't actually hard to understand at all).
The Ryan plan (just like the Obama plan a few weeks ago) is clearly and demonstrably partisan. It is not more a solution to our problems than Obama's was and as such it wastes everyone's time and (like Obama's) prevents honest discussion about the federal budget. I'm sick of the pandering - if you can't see this budget as pandering then you haven't actually read it either -or the math of revenue collection is being ignored.
Incidentally, you also said something to the effect that medicare/medicaid changes would rain in medical cost inflation - hardly - all it does is pass the cost to the consumer. Or would you care to explain how a voucher prevents cost inflation?
A real, non-partisan budget would include both cost cuts across everyone's pet pork and tax increases. Of course that wouldn't be popular with the partisans so it doesn't happen.
GOP = Social Darwinists....love it!
Obama is wiping hind quarters with the Ryan Bill in this speech. You go Obama!
Yes, he is - of course if he hadn't put forth his own turd of a budget a few weeks ago then I'd be able to be more satisfied with his speach...
I remember way back in 1993 when the Family Medical Leave Act was passed with something like 62% of the house vote, and 71% of the senate vote.
I remember when we used to work together to get things done, not win a majority and shove it down the throats of the opposition.
I remember when the president would offer some compromise and operate very near the center of the aisle, but at the same time, staying "on their own side".
The culture in DC is corrupt. The very essence of this corruption is managed in a 'top-down' manner. The problem starts with the President (regardless of party affiliation), and flows down through the party. To fix the problem, you don't apply a band-aid. We have to start over with centrists - not wanna be's, I mean true centrists who want America to succeed.
'complete collapse'....(chuckle). I smell the GOP chicken little desperation.
American Girl: In eight years in office Bush raised the national debt to almost five trillion dollars. In a little over three years in office Obama has raised the debt to almost five trillion dollars. Obama's budget proposal for 2013 raises debt almost 900 billion and closer to one trillion dollars. If he is reelected, he expects to leave office with a national debt of 20 trillion dollars which is an increase of 87% of what the debt now is. Since taking control of congress in 07, democrats have added 4.92 trillion to the national debt. When republicans had control for twelve years they added 3.873 trillion to the debt.
Now, this is way beyond partisan issues, yes Bush was really bad and Obama is proving to be worse. Both parties apparently don't have a clue as to what to do and the can kicking is rapidly becoming shorter in duration. Our debt is at 100% of our GDP. We are Greece in that respect. Obama's 'plan' offers ever increasing debt, in perpetuity. No caps on spending, no balancing the budget, just additional spending.
Ryan's plan doesn't go far enough and won't get the support it needs. It isn't enough to slow the rate at which we spend and add to the debt, we have already passed that threshold. Voters will have to get serious and toss ALL big spenders out of office.
2lane: Interjecting snide and unsubtantiated 'comments' is what is often referred to as trolling. Come up with facts and refutations based on informed information rather than snickering.
This is more about Dems wanting to tax and spend us into oblivion then what might be best for the country. Pretty simple....you had control of all 3 branches of the government for 2 years and what did we get: Obamacare, Auto bailouts, apologizing to the world for the US and by the way.......how much is the deficit? Are you kidding me?
Disclosure - I'm a moderate who has trended Democrat. Why does that matter? Because I'm calling your sarcasm short-sighted and ignorant of the facts as a moderate. Have you even bothered to read the CBO's assessments? When you debt exceeds you GDP, things get ugly fast and the CBO's analysis isn't an alarmist interpretation of the data.
Our problem is real and the solutions are not to be found in snide, partisan, rhetoric. I'm sick of people on both sides of the aisle being so ignorant and short-sighted.
Last year's budget offering from Obama was voted down 97 to 0 in the Senate .... not even ONE vote from his own party. This year's budget proposal from Obama is apparently so embarassing that Harry Reid will not even bring it up for consideration ! This is the Democrats concept of leadership ??????????
So now, Obama is desperately attacking a Republican proposal ? Are you kidding me ?? The smell of this HYPOCRISY is like the smell of napalm .... and Obama's "budget ideas" are every bit as destructive !
Barack Obama is a financial disaster and he is merely playing the budget game because he doesn't have the balls to submit a realistic budget proposal. Besides, as far as he's concerned, only his re-election is important.
The problem with ignorance is that you can state facts without understanding their origin. As an example the facts stating the deficits under Bush and Obama are correct. The ignorance is not understanding the source of the annual deficits.
READ:
I could cite at least 3 other similar items. Educate yourself on the positions you are spouting AND understand not just the summary of the data, but the actual data underneath.
(Or to spoon feed - a HUGE portion of the Obama annual deficits directly result from lost revenue due to tax cuts and the costs of financing our terrorism wars... - so the numbers you spout mean very very little when tied to th President during a given year.)
@hardtostarboard
How about ending the Bush Tax Cuts of the Rich = 500 Billion + 3 Billion = 503 Billion Dollars - A good start on reducing our debt don't you think? Or would you like the rich to have more tax cuts?
jim,,,,, The Ryan/Romney Plan was voted down by Congress
It's a Trojan Horse that lights up the skyline at night like the lights of Las Vegas --- It is sure economic doom
The problem is our military is far to large. We need massive cuts to defense spending and troop authorization. Unfortunately neither party wants to do the right thing.
Now that's funny ... this coming from someone who still believes in "trickle-down" economics.
Rufnex
"Obamacare" will save taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars while providing health care for tens of millions more citizens .... how is that bad.
The auto "bailouts" were not bailouts, but loans which have been paid back ahead of schedule, saved well over a million jobs, and resulted in a more competitive auto industry for the future.
The "apologies" of which you speak are an invention of conservative media, pure fiction for the Obama hate machine. Our standing in the world has improved markedly during the past three years.
The yearly deficit has not increased over the last years of the Bush administration, despite the miserable economy left behind by that Bush administration. Our deficit problems are almost solely due to the large, unnecessary tax cuts and dumb wars of the previous administration.
Yep...but its a turd and non-starter with America. Try Again.
Obama is right. Lets get back to a balanced Simpson-Bowles.
Barack Obama is a financial disaster and he is merely playing the budget game because he doesn't have the balls to submit a realistic budget proposal. Besides, as far as he's concerned, only his re-election is important.
He has submitted realistic budgets, only they all contained tax increases on the wealthy, of course we can't have that, Grover Norquist has layed down the law for the Republicant's.
Remember one of the earlier GOP debates when there were still 8 of them on stage, the moderator asked if any of them would be willing to compromise on deficit reduction by way of $10 dollars of spending cuts for $1 dollar of increased revenue. Not one of these so called Patriots raised there hand.
The GOP is going insane they want all the sacrifices to go to everybody but the upper 1 or 2%
I was glad to see the President hammer Republican's on this, keep fighting for me and the other 98%
Interesting thread here. Conservatives presenting legitimate questions and comments, and liberals offering only personal attacks and insults. Par for the course.
Me too. So drop the turd that is the Ryan Plan. President Obama is right, we need to get back to a balance with Simpson Bowles.
Got compromise?
Brendan,
I really hate to write this, but I personally think we're getting banged for our bucks. If the Democrats were serious about taking care of us, they would drop all of the spend-more tax-more programs they are so fond of and let us keep our hard-earned bucks to spend to drive the economy which will in turn drive tax revenue.
Hobama apparently wants to go down in the history books as the greatest social engineer since FDR. Don't get me wrong; I will enjoy my Social Security income when I get there next year, but I do not enjoy the direct threats to SCOTUS by POTUS and his interference in the checks and balance system that our founding fathers ensconced in the Constitution to protect all of us from just exactly what POTUS is trying to do by threatening another branch of our government.
Beware he who promises too much, for he shall not be able to deliver anywhere near what he promises. "If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is too good to be true." That goes for both sides of the argument.
I'm pretty sure I've already panned the Ryan Plan several times on here - so no debate there - and I support Obama's public statements until I review his budget proposal and find it to be just as much of a load as Ryan's, just in a different direction.
Compromise - yeah I have a compromise: Expire the 2001, 2003, and 2010 tax cuts AND cut the federal budget across all categories. My compromise sucks. Of course my compromise is the net requirement of a rational understanding of our current fiscal situation. Of course as long as we can't get past the partisan rhetoric we can't actually discuss my points...
Obama "knows a trojan horse when he sees one" OBAMACARE was one!
Don't be a Moron:
htp://freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2861560/posts
And...looking backwards to place blame is going to solve the problem how, exactly? Do you punish a dog for peeing on the carpet when it was a puppy? The pee is in the carpet and it needs to be removed, that is the situation as it stands today. Bush is no longer president. Obama is currently president. What part of his budget is acceptable? The democrats rejected it...again. Do you not understand that we are spending far more than we take in?
Guess you don't count the billions paid into bancrupt 'green energy' companies in your factors? The Volt is a flop and GM is laying off workers. They didn't pay back, they were 'forgiven' huge amounts of taxpayer money backing them and while the unions were covered, the GM investors took it in the shorts.Billions loaned to other countries to boost their manufacturing of electric cars, mostly rewards to Obama campaign supporters but that is of no consequnce, right? Largest corporate tax rate in the world and that is also of no consequence in the long term, right?
Our deficits are mostly interest having to be paid on loans. Remove those interest payments and then examine the outlay. As to the 'turd' (how eloquently and intelligently you express yourself) it is an attempt to staunch the bleeding, which, if not stopped, will result in a complete hemorrhage.
Obamacare will result in trillions of additional dollars in unfunded liablities, there is no cap on medical expenses or a cap on insurance rates.
Interesting thread here. Conservatives presenting legitimate questions and comments, and liberals offering only personal attacks and insults. Par for the course.
What thread are you talking about, must be some parallel thread created by Fox Noise.
Retreat to the center of your web, that piece of crap got away.
Fact is Ryan budget is not going to make it. Fact is cutting alone will not solve the debt. Ryan's plan also continues a deficit (another fact). Lets face it MyGirl, its a perverted, its Right Wing Social Darwinism
Obama is right, Get behind Simpson Bowles. Do what the people can compromise on. Balance, shared sacrifice. Not more money for wealthy and cost shifting to middle class.
Oh, and MyGirl, another annoying fact for you........March Jobs Report to show another 200,000 Job Increase. Btw, Jan and Feb job numbers revised up. Consumer Confidence up, Consumer spending up, Unemployment down. Exports up and Energy production up. Stock Markey up, Small Business loans up, Car Sales wayyyy up. Oil dependence down.
Meanwhile, the GOP has lost the women's vote and hispanic vote, gay vote Not so good for the 'Anybody but Obama (but just not Romney). And Romney is down 11 against Obama nationally and down an average 8 in the swing states.
I know, MyGirl, those pesky facts just keep getting in the way of the impotent GOP plan for Obama to fail.
@John Bayner #1.42
If Obama's budget offerings were realistic, then why did he get ABSOLUTELY NO SUPPORT ....... even from within his own party ? Care to rationalize that one ?? EPIC FAILURE by your response.
I ready your link. Have you read mine? (I don't think so). Your original sited post blamed Obama (blatantly) and my response called you on ignoring the source of the problem. Your second post references a link that simply summarizes the situation at the highest level without any underlying analysis. You then ask why I would look backwards and again try to lay blame at the current president solely because "He's president."
I'm sorry, I'm from the school of thought where you try to analyse the problem, understand the cause, and propose a solution that addresses the causes. If you had read any of my links, you'd note that 50% of the deficit problems directly result from un-funded tax cuts and un-funded wars. Ryan's budget does nothing to address these problems (Obama's does little either) - in fact Ryan's increases defense spending - in fact, it adds more tax cuts.
So for the cheap seats - I'm laying blame at the root cause and you are just blaming. There's actually distinction there and I suspect I'm not the only one that sees it.
I agree. So why cant we have a balanced approach like Simpson Bowles? The GOP ceded the high ground on compromise the day they decided not to (day 1). The debate where not one of them would accept a 10-1 Cuts/Revenue ratio said it all for me; the GOP doesn't want shared sacrifice or balance.
You only get there by compromise.
Chris-1563272, well thought out points. Nice to see someone not bashing Obama, or chalking him up as the savior but looking at both sides and offering sensible solutions.
Don't be a Moron: And my point is that your 'laying blame at the root cause' is another blame Bush moment. I read your attachments prior to my post BTW. I saw the numbers. I understand the Bush factor, so, what do you propose?
What do you propose to do about the current financial crisis? After you've examined the root causes, what do you propose by way of viable changes? Ryan, no good. Obama, no good.
So, when do we bite the bullet? When do we quit kicking the can down the road, when we are in over our heads as it is? My point, which I am apparently stating rather badly, is that the blame game is over and using it to make excuses is beyond counter-productive. Obama isn't helping the problems, he demogogues and then presents a budget, a budget that the CBO predicts will cause complete financial collapse by 2027. Fifteen years from now. Blame Bush is all well and good, however, this is today, what do we do today?
@Mathew, you are absolutely wrong on many points. First, the cost of the Bush wars didn't become evident until he was almost out of office, before Obama was elected, and was costing the US roughly 10 billion dollars a week. The bailouts didn't even come close to the cost of the wars, and they were invested back into this country instead of spent over seas. We also left $800 billion with of equipment on the sand in Iraq that we are still paying for and gave them $187 billion to help them rebuild.
Second, Bush did start the wars on his own, illegally, and WITHOUT congress consent. The UN resolution that Bush took before congress that congress approved was to allow UN inspectors to search for weapons of mass destruction and that the US reserved the right to attack in a pre-emptive measure IF the inspectors were NOT allowed complete access to Iraq. The inspectors were allowed in, they found absolutely no evidence of WMDs and confirmed that Iraq had disassembled their chemical weapons and manufacturing, Bush attacked anyway. The attach had NOTHING to do with 9/11 as Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11. Bush new that. So no, the war was NOT constitutional.
Educate yourself, you're an embarrassment to this country.
It's funny how the Republicans screeching about big government taxes don't seem to mind so much when big government is policing our sex lives. Why not just be honest and say "No big government for the things I like?"
JonSmith: Bush had consent of congress before going to war. Selective memory aside.
The Democrats have become the party of blame. Obama is the blamer in chief. Not one real solution of any kind for the fiscal crisis facing this country but eliminate the Bush tax cuts for a 100 billion a year. Which is barely a drop in the bucket with our trillion plus annual deficits.
At some point in time all the Obama supporters need to put on their big boy pants and face the reality of the situation. Blaming Bush fixes NOTHING. Blaming Bush does not absolve you of guilt. Obama has increased spending not reduced it. Obama has offered not one single solution, but he attacks anyone that does.
We are reaching the point where it is put up or shut up. Either Obama can do the job or he can't. When all you have to offer is blame, then obviously Obama is not up for the job of being president. Obama has already added more to the national debt in 3.5 years then any other previous president. Obama if given a second term is on pace to add more to our national debt then all previous presidents combined. What a legacy. I doubt the historians will still be blaming Bush.
Amusing to hear anyone on the left comment on a federal budget when from 2008 - 2010 they controlled both The House and The Senate AND the Presicency and either CHOSE not to put forth a budget or lacked the mental capacity to do so. Now that they have lost The House and are in fear of losing both other portions they complain about any other budget put forth. Wake up people. Every single Dem in The House voted no on Obama's budget. How bad does it have to be for not one member to vote yes. LOL
WELLL, we have ALL seen what this IDIOTS "budgets" have done for this country!!! Does ANYONE (except idiots) REALLY listen to this guy?? ANYONE BUT BOZO 2012!!
That sums it up. The bombing of the Planned Parenthood facility in Wisconsin is the kind of desperate act we see whenever these far-right douche-bags *imagine* they are losing ground in some way. Whether it's domestic terrorism (AKA resorting to second amendment rights) or doubling down, this is what Teapublicans do when they don't feel they are getting their way through normal process (i.e., democracy and majority rule).
The far-right in the country uses obstructionism (filibuster), hostage-taking (debt ceiling crisis), subversion (primary threats, gerrymandering, voter ID suppression), "starve the beast" anarchy, the War on Women, and are even resorting to Police State (e.g., strip search ruling) and Marshall Law (Emergency Financial Managers) behavior in their attempt to force their minority agenda on the rest of the nation. The Tea Party sabotage must end NOW -- Throw these fascist anarchist out!
Spending is the problem. I would love for a liberal to quantify what the fair share the 1% should pay. The United States has an extremely regressive taxation with our top 10% paying the largest percentage of total taxes received in the world. (Our rich provide the largest share of revenues income tax percentage wise - 50% of taxpayers pay no income tax). Our corporate tax rate is now the highest in the world since Japan lowered theirs. What has the President actually offered to cut, as opposed to reducing the rate of increase?
Romney will be the Republican nominee, the election campaign has begun.
I'm going to be called a racist for using this analogy, but oh well.
Obama calling out republicans on their budget is definitely the pot calling the kettle black.
Gee, Obama had 2 years with a democratic congress and failed to pass a budget, kind of hypocritical dont you think?
"Like his reckless budgets, today's speech by President Obama is as revealing as it is disappointing: While others lead by offering real solutions, he has chosen to distort the truth and divide Americans in order to distract from his failed record."
Good point!!
To the "brilliant" comments that said Dems controlled all three branches of Government obviously think the three branches are the Presidency, the House, and the Senate. Epic education fail.
Those who try to pass off the Bush tax cuts and wars, by saying "don't look backwards", deal with what we have; are the same ones who will forever more refuse to compromise to fix the mess--they are the only ones who know what to do. /right/
Those on both sides who call the other side "stupid". Epic stupidity back at you! If you spell "speach" for "speech". Gross ignorance. If you type "Bush new" instead of "Bush knew", then tell the other guy to educate himself. Hilariously gross ignorance. FOR THE LOVE OF GHU, USE SPELL CHECK! (of course it won't help if you don't know about homonyms.
Patriotic American U.S.A., "The Ryan plan is a total joke."
Hmmmm, let's see. Paul Ryan - B.A. Economics and chairman of the House Budget Committee.
Patriotic American U.S.A. - working on on-line GED.
It is very interesting that this line of discussion has been collapsed by the Progressive Fascists as it appears for no real reason other than Progressives by and large have no valid course of rebuttal save one.
Don' be a moron...said...
I have no problem with adding more tax cuts than any other congressional body particularly where those cuts are affecting recycled taxpayer money into initiatives like education and welfare that are under state purview. Seems a prudent measure to decelerating the rate of debt particularly where they are cutting funding that clearly falls under individual State responsibility.
I have no problem with reasonable increase for national defence. Not every conflict should be resolved via presidential hit list and as Government responsibility and priorities go well National Defense is really rather up front and center. The Iraq war is supposed to be over and yet Obama has managed to keep an incredibly large contingent in country. As for Afghanistan...the way Obama is being boisterous about ignoring boundaries and sovereignty we probably should continue to set aside funding for when our enemies and well friends have had enough of Barack and well invade us right back. We can honestly say that we have seen nothing graceful or precise about this administration. We have also not seen a workable budget out of BO or the Democrats in Congress. Unfortunately, with members like "we have to pass legislation before we know what is in it..." Pelosi and "Fannie and Freddie are sound" Frank along with "How else can I sell my support" Reid.....well the DNC is sort of short on credibility and the only negotiable position they have to work from is to make it appear like the rich will pay more taxes but I think we all know they won't. We are better off to take the conservative approach and repair the tax code instead of passing empty legislation that will bite everyone in the A$$ later on down the line.
As for your very liberal think tank data....I do believe I will work with more moderate sorces thank you.
Actually the statement was not incidental in the least.
If Medicare is given back to individuals to put toward their own medical care, based on the plan that wealthier individuals will receive less in a voucher and low income will receive a higher value then people can actually purchase insurance that will benefit their own needs. Insurance companies are much better watchdogs than the Government on fraudulent billing. The same is true of State medical programs for the poor and those in need. States are also better equip to manage specific needs of their poor and disadvantaged than the Federal Government is when considering 50 states and some very diverse geographic needs. As for mandating that everyone purchase insurance....not everyone needs insurance or at least at the same levels as others. These needs change. When I was single...I had a rather bare bones catastrophic type medical insurance program. By the time I was married and we had kids our needs grew and our choice and cost of policy grew. My dad who is 72 and on medicare is also covered by a supplemental policy. That supplemental policy was well worth the cost when over time different things have happened from hand surgeries to repairs for falls to other medical issues. To take an easy one...the cost of his hand surgery with medicare would have been more than the cost of his supplemental for that year.
Another point to add with regard to medical. Hospitals will have to learn, like the rest of us to live within their means and honestly will have to start going after people who walk the bill for medical services rendered. Those of us who are in the habit of paying our bills need to stop over paying for the deadbeats who walk the bill for the care they so desperately required for themselves or their children...well maybe not enough to pay for the care thay recieve anyway.
It is time for some austerity measures.
Obama had control of both houses of Congress for two years and accomplished nothing but putting this country deeper in debt. If anyone made it a living hell for Obama it was his democratic Congress people. They saw he wasn't a leader and didn't support him for two years.
Not a moron - you really need to understand the political positions of the people you read and believe before you berate someone to be more educated.
http://www.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/barro/files/ws04_1213.pdf
Center on Budget and Policy Priorities - one of your direct links scores 88 on the ADA rating system of 0 for conservative and 100 for liberal. The "facts" you speak of were built to sway you to be a liberal.
Your Washington Post Authors are Todd Lindeman and Ezra Klein (used to write for Keith Olbermann) are far left writers and use the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities as the basis of their article.
Your third link goes to the Bi-partisan Policy center. It is full of moderate republicans (who most often agree with the left) and Democrats from moderates to heavy left.
In all sincerity from looking at the tax cut issue - the wars plus tax cuts might make up 2 Trillion of the bush deficits. The problem with saying tax cuts cost it is that every dollar in a wealthy man's hand gets put into the most efficient place that builds wealth. That is why 2 18 months after the Bush tax cuts finally were put into effect we experienced the two largest increases in revenue in history - all without increasing taxes anywhere. The Last time I checked $221, $230 billion, and $136 Billion in revenue increases far exceed the average Clinton increase of $86 billion per year.
Well, I see many didn't even watch the speech today and are gathering their talking points and bringing them here.
Mygirl even brings up the illegitimate war in Iraq knowing full well the evidence was doctored and falsified to get us there.
Another fact the conservatives fail to brag about... Deficits don't matter.
I'll admit this president doesn't go far enough for me. We should have a public option or universal healthcare but republicans talked him out of it. I find fault in this president strictly for his determination to compromise.
Oddly, conservatives think the president goes too far, especially when he enforces republican ideas.
So, if you're such a conservative, why are you so desperate to convince us that the Bush administration policies are so good for us?
Face it, Bush burned you on the cross. Now, you're left with empty proof that conservatism is a valid tool in government.
As history can attest, conservative values failed this nation in the previous administration, whether you support it or not.
Please spare me your links of conservative views and policies. We have been there already. We know what you deem sacred. Tax cuts for the rich and more military spending. That is your solution to fix our country.
Now, step aside and let a democrat fix it. You can destroy it again in 2016, just like any other republican has done in the past.
Txmom,
Thank you, and some others, for actually having an educational (to me anyway) conversation that I could "listen" to. You've rejuvenated my interest in this oft hate filled medium.
To the fools who just want to incite...bite me ;)
Now that is really funny....the Democrats were in power through some of Bush and then complete control through first two years of BO and still in charge of the Senate now....why in the world would you believe that the Demcorats can actually fix anything when it comes to Government? Honestly, if the DNC in Congress were all of that then why must BO invoke so many Presidential orders instead of having the backbone to face congress? See that is the thing...if his Administration were as transparent as promised even the Progressives would have a difficult time swallowing his BS.
Done97524
"Obamacare" will save taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars while providing health care for tens of millions more citizens .... how is that bad.
I really would like to know where you get your information. On March 12 of trhis year, the CBO has estimated the COST of Obamacare to be 1.76 TRILLION dollars which is considerably more than the 940 Billion originally estimated when we had what will prove to be an unconstitutional law shoved down our throat by the Democrats. And you want to know how this can be a bad thing? Really? Really?
Brendan, you do know that revenues have been at a mere 16% of GDP ever since Bush cut taxes, right?? You also realize that revenues were at 21% in 1999, giving us a surplus. In case you haven't noticed, revenues as a share of GDP have not gone up, or remained constant, but have gone down. America has a small government compared to its economy; and we have 300 million people; of course the government is going to be big. And have you seen the deficits??? Do you really think America can cut $6 trillion over the next 10 years from the budget WITHOUT hurting the economy??? Face it; taxes are too low right now. We were fine with the taxes in the Clinton era; we ought to go back. It's uncompromising stances like yours that are ruining this nation.
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
The 2013 Obama budget was voted down by every member of the House including all the Democrats. Wonder why he is attacking Ryan's plan. The President is in deep denial.
txmom
"Complete control" would suggest a veto-proof Senate. Never happened. The Republicans set an all-time record for filibusters during the first two years of the Obama administration.
Donald Trump Explains "Dumbo" Health Care
No one can sum it up better than Trump
Let me get this straight. We're going to be "gifted" a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, which purportedly covers at least ten million more people without adding a single new doctor but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a Dumbo President who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, all for which we will be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!
What could possibly go wrong?"
Unfortunately, Hendy, the CBO extended the timeline for the cost of Obamacare by 3 more years, AND you only listed the outlays. The CBO estimates that Obamacare will lower the deficit by approximately $97 billion over 10 years, and more by next decade. That means that revenues and/or savings will be approximately $1.86 trillion over the exact same time period. Next time speak the WHOLE truth, not just the facts that support your argument.
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
Obama bidin" his timin" on the unemployment linin"
Sorry, John, but the only time Obama will be on the unemployment line will be in 2016, after being re-elected and going there just to smite the GOP.
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
Sorry, Freshieee, if it wasn't for the over the top political correctness, he would have already been impeached. And if he happens to get a second term, most people with anything left will leave the the country to ruin that the welfare state has created. Good luck with that.
Ahh yes, the perpetual motion machine. Wanna buy a bridge?
Highly doubt anyone but the anti-Obama Teapublicans will leave when he gets re-elected. And I find it curious that the GOP has been dragging this country to the right for over three decades, what with unaffordable tax cuts and deregulation of our economy, and when we decide for once to head back to the center or maybe just a bit to center-left the right denounces us as trying to bring about a welfare state. Well the GOP is driving us to a plutocratic state, so I would stick with the left. They ain't bringing us to a welfare state (but I'll just let you harbor that fancy to keep you occupied), and at least they aren't that beholden to the 1% like the GOP.
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
The two biggest recipients of political contributions from Wall Street are Romney and Obama.
Here's the difference between the two parties: The Republicans are outright, unapologetic servants of Wall Street, corporations and the rich and enemies of the average working person. The democrats are the same but talk like they are for the "little guy" and throw a few crumbs to the peasants every once in awhile (usually around election time).
They are both corrupt and only interested in their own political/social ambitions and with either in control we will end up the same way in the end: A Banana Republic.
I received this in my in-box, a message from my "legal eagle" friends in Wisconsin:
--------------------------------------
Here's just a few of the things that would happen to Americans with the budget the GOP is backing:
Medicare? They'd throw it out the window, and give seniors a voucher that would amount to the second-cheapest health care plan in their community.
Education? This plan would lay off thousands of teachers nationwide, and drastically cut financial aid -- actually making college more expensive than it currently is.
Investments in clean energy? Cut by a fifth.
In the President's words: "Gutting the very things we need to grow an economy that's built to last -- education and training, research and development -- it's a prescription for decline."
Perhaps even more telling are the things they're fighting to protect: four billion annually in taxpayer-funded subsidies for giant oil companies that don't need it; increases in defense spending completely beyond what the Pentagon even asked for; and even more tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires.
So let's break it down. This budget isn't for the 98% of Americans making under $250,000 a year.
Who is it for? It's laden with special interest kickbacks and protections to keep the status quo going for those on top.
"mygirl1" said:
"The Volt is a flop and GM is laying off workers."
Really? Then how do you explain this bit of news?
------------------------------------------------
GM restarts production early to meet increased demand for Chevy Volt
Sales of General Motors' Chevrolet Volt are picking up, leading the automaker to restart production a week early this month at its Detroit-Hamtramck assembly plant.
Chris Lee, a GM spokesman, confirmed Wednesday that GM would resume Volt production April 16 after a four-week shutdown, instead of the previously planned five-week stretch.
"Employees are being called back one week earlier than previously announced due to increased Volt sales since January and the need to meet demand in our strong markets, including California," GM said in a statement.
The news comes a day after GM reported an uptick in Volt sales to 2,289 in March, a 50% increase from the previous high in December. Sales of the extended-range plug-in electric vehicle disappointed in early months but are now gaining steam.
"We are meeting supply and demand," Mark Reuss, president of GM North America, said at the New York International Auto Show. "It's not just Volt. It's everything."
http://www.freep.com/article/C4/20120405/BUSINESS0101/204050488/GM-restarts-production-early-to-meet-increased-demand-for-Chevy-Volt?odyssey=nav|head
Europe announced that the Volt is the number one import of the year there.
Are you sure it's a "flop"?
Or do you just wish it were.
No Go USA from you, huh?
I think I'm in Love with MyGirl1.
Wait, did I type that or just think it? Lols.
Seriously, we need real change. We thought we would get it before, but it failed miserably. At this point, Obama supporters are like that chick that stays with her boyfriend even though he smacks her around.
Ron Paul Revolution!
Weds, Ron Paul spoke to TEN THOUSAND PEOPLE at UC Chico. Not a single mainstream media outlet sent a reporter.
Thurs, Ron Paul spoke to ELEVEN THOUSAND PEOPLE at UCLA. Filled the entire Tennis Center. NOT a story the main stream media deemed important, no coverage.
Friday Night, Ron Paul spoke in front of 8500 people..... at UC Berkeley!!! The most Liberal College probably on the planet.
No coverage. Not important.
The main stream media is OWNED!!!. By The Corporations!!!
Please, please, please.....
THINK!!!!
We CAN win, we WILL win!
"The message of Liberty is spreading, and it's a Wonderful message" -Ron Paul at UC Berkeley
See for yourself
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMIo-otlPo4
In his speech to 8500 at UC Berkeley tonight, Ron Paul said he would save medicare by bringing the troops home. WIN - WIN!!!!
If you can't get behind that, your "liberalism" is totally FAKE.
In his speech to 8500 at UC Berkeley tonight, Ron Paul said he would save medicare by bringing the troops home. WIN - WIN!!!!
If you can't get behind that, your "liberalism" is totally FAKE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDAo-V9GBrc&feature=share
Listen to The Man!!!!
I've listened to Ron Paul.
That's why I won't vote for him.
But, you're probably young and naive. You'll grow out of Ron Paul.
At some point, we all (hopefully) grow out of cowboys and indians.
Well Duh, anyone with half a brain or half a heart would criticize the starve the beast budget.
Glad Obama finally joined the thinking class
"Ryan got his info on the health care plan from bazooka bubble gum wrappers"
Except the "we are in a crisis" is fading with the economic improvement. Americans have got that revenues need to go up along with cuts, but Republicans are sticking to the "starve the beast" plan.
Yeah, and leading is to a second Tea Party Credit Downgrade.
Are the Conservatives that post on this vine really as shallow minded as they come off, or are they getting payed to lie?
Yep totally shallow minded. I just think that the money that I make I should be able to spend myself.
Toasty,
the down grade has to do with how much we owe compared to our GDP, and the proposed future spending of this administration. We as a country cannot keep spending more money than we take in. You want to increase taxes, than fine, by all means send more money in. Maybe if we all paid an extra $7500.00 each, (this is based on 200,000,000 people paying taxes) we can have enough money to pay for the present year spending.
I know that is a huge lie, we would actually have to each pay twice that..
That "budget" cuts everything, but increases spending to the military.
I'll leave you with that, draw your own conclusions.
Apparently so for short-term thinking checker-players on the left. The CBO scores the presidents budget as imploding the US economy by 2027, collapsing under the weight of entitlements.
On its current path, public debt will exceed the size of our economy by 2027 and continue to explode thereafter. There are consequences and risks to carrying such a large national debt. At some point, it will begin to crowd out private investment and retard economic growth. Moreover, at these debt levels, policymakers will have significantly less flexibility to respond to national emergencies or changing economic conditions.
http://www.bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/2012/02/twelve-takeaways-cbo%E2%80%99s-2012-budget-and-economic-outlook
I get it. I know spending is a major issue. But why does this budget proposal make cuts, but ease cuts (i.e. increase spending) on military? It seems hypocritical.
And then there's cutting funding to colleges. This I do not agree with. Higher education is becoming a necessity, and as a country we have fallen behind too much already.
So how about a compromise? We do cuts and increase taxes (or just reform the tax system). Doing both can cure the ills for more easily than doing one. But, we already saw how bad the compromised budget proposal did in the House.
Absolutely fair analysis. Did you read section five of http://www.bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/2012/02/twelve-takeaways-cbo%E2%80%99s-2012-budget-and-economic-outlook?
Did you note the part "Reader beware: this projection contains many policy assumptions that are far from assured, including expiration of the 2001, 2003, and 2010 tax cuts, implementation of the Budget Control Act (BCA) sequester cuts, and failure to renew the alternative minimum tax (AMT) “patch” and the “doc fix.” In CBO’s words, the current law baseline represents a “benchmark against which fiscal changes can be measured,“ it should not be considered a serious forecast."
Or to put it another way, the Ryan plan would ruin us too because it includes even more budget cuts rather than expiring the previous three poorly devised tax cuts.
May be we should cal lit both ways? (They both suck, are partisan, and screw us even further). If we did, then maybe we might actually have a real substantive discussion about federal budgets in this country.
Simply increasing taxes in an already unfair tax system is short-sighted also. Broader taxation, lower tax rates, less loopholes is the way to help growth, allowing for revenue increases that are meaningful. Too many are not paying in as it is. As Obama says..."Spread that pain, baby."
Yes John, spread the pain (because we have two choices - pain now or collapse later). Neither Obama's nor Ryan's
turdbudget do option 1 in any realistic way and you were overtly criticising Obama - if you had called it both ways, I wouldn't have called you out....Agreed.
Another thing that needs to go is essentially "paying" people to have children. If you cannot afford it, don't breed. There are subsidized means to birth control. The government doesn't need to subsidize people breeding.
As for "people not paying in" I agree also. While that "47%" or whatever was truly a blip, the real figure is at least 1/3 of the nation. This is unacceptable. I think we need to get rid of negative tax returns (you get all taxes back that you paid and more) and everyone who made more than the poverty line in income needs to have a minimum payment, let's say $100. That way, if you make more than the poverty line, you are contributing to the government.
This much we know;
1. We need economic growth
2. The current debt trajectory is unsustainable, creating fundamental changes to the economy and federal budget in as little as 10-15 years. This country might turn into a scrap pile for the chinese in 20 years.
I used to bemoan the fact that my children are saddled with unservicable federal debt down the road. Down the road is here now.
I haven't found much to cheer about in the last three years. The election is, or should be about averting this debt crisis. Obama is in charge. Unless Obama comes up with a credible plan for dealing with it, he will neither deserve nor obtain re-election. Voters are not as stupid as he believes.
John - Let me ask this question - do you think Obama would get re-elected if he was honest in his approach to the budget? Based on the commentary here-in that ignores the actual fiscal data, I'd say not a chance in hell. As it is right now, the electoral vote counts would seem to indicate he gets re-elected contrary to the conventional wisdom of economics/presidential elections.
So let's assume (please) that Obama is currently leading the election and wants to be re-elected. Is he likely to upset his base by being honest about what really needs to happen from a federal budget perspective? (No, he isn't because that wouldn't be politically viable). Based on the polls, the voter believes the rhetoric and EVEN if Romney wins election - his alternative suggestions are just as wrong - just on the opposite side of the aisle.)
So... I'd say voters really are as stupid as he believes.
@Don'tBe
We really won't know until after the nomination and the national debates between [likely] Romney and Obama. If Obama starts getting slaughtered he will shake things up a bit. If he is on top, he'll just keep doing what he's doing.
Don't be - I have no reason to believe Obama would knowingly sell us down the debt river. I think he wants what he wants and "hopes" the economy will improve enough to pay for it long-term. Nothing in his background suggests he is fiscally educated, prudent or responsible. He just "doesn't get it", in my opinion. I think Obama is honest in his budget approach and like many today thinks he can have it all, baby, at once.
For his chances being honest (assuming he is not), the hard core left is a minority, maybe 20%. What is their alternative in Nov.? Stay home? I doubt it.
To the contrary, let's assume let's assume he is being intellectually dishonest about the deficits. He is simply selling us down the river for an election, if he wins and plays chicken with $11 trillion in debt. I would also have to assume that is his plan, since he has not uttered a realistic word about his budget.
Well, the fix is in apparently, Obama's open mic moment with Medeyev, "yes, after the election, I will tell Putin" is rather telling. Essentially it is "Well, Vladimir, ol' buddy, I can't trample the security of American interests right now, let's wait until I'm back and then we can finish the job. Won't have to be constantly campaigning then and I can focus all my energies on completing the job I've started."
Well MyGirl, there you were chastising me falsely for not debating with facts and you post this conjecture and partisanship. Just as I thought, another hyper-critical conservative troll.
Oh and tell me MyGirl....is Russia an enemy? Seems is wasn't when Bush baby was in office ...just sayin
The CBO is indeed way too optimistic since they have to use unrealistic numbers given them. When more probable numbers are used we are less than a decade away from Greece. When that happens we are screwed because there is no one to bail us out.
The Ryan plan would at least stabilize us but more cuts are needed to bring down the deficit. Obama's plan, as mentioned earlier will not stabilize us, but bury us instead.
John - That was probably the most fair response I've gotten on here and so - thank you. Either your Obama Honest or your Obama dishonest descriptions could be true and we can't know for sure. Additionally, I agree that he has NOT been honest about his budget proposal and the things I have read about it would not seem to indicate that it is fiscally realistic. (So it is not a viable option and comes across as partisan rhetoric).
My issue is that the Ryan budget is also not financially realistic. When you actually look at the annual deficits the US is running right now, you realize that the 2001, 2003, and 2010 tax cuts and the war funding are killing us. Ryan's budget heads in the opposite direction on both of those - lower taxes (and thus even lower revenue) and roll-backs of defense cuts. That is just as fiscally irresponsable as Obama's.... I'm honest about calling that both ways and that is what I'm asking others to do too. Or we NEVER get out of this situation until the system collapses.
Don't be - I appreciate your tone, as well. Obama is either disingenuous or incompetent and history will deal with him appropriately if we continue unchanged. He will be portrayed as the Titanic captain of the US economy, if our course is not corrected.
If Krugman is calling Ryan's budget "pink slime" it probably deserves a good look. We need a tax system overhaul promoting growth, to have any chance of righting the ship. If we go the other way that Obama wants, then business will simply close up shop, sending millions more out for SNAP cards. It is called entrepenural incentive. Lose it and we're done.
2Lane: I was responding to another poster's comments about the electoral college. If you recall, Bush made some serious errors of judgement with Putin and it looks like Obama is getting ready to do the same thing. Additionally, Obama seems very confident that he will be re-elected, so confident that he's telling a president of another country that while he can't do anything now, once the elections are over, Molly-bar-the-door because, well, if (once, according to him) there will be no pesky voters that he has to answer to anymore. The deal is done and he can reign unfettered.
Both parties are responsible for this mess and everyone is going to be hurt by what is required to fix it. The sad reality is that any plan that will actually make a difference and isn't just a political smoke screen is going to be "radical".
Fiscal responsibility is an oxymoron for congress. It's time to stop asking the Bernie Madoffs of the world to make a budget, quite frankly the only thing congress has managed to prove over the past decade is that they are incompetent with money; congress needs a control board.
Obama criticizes the Republican plan but his own party will not even allow his budget to be considered it is so bad. Obama wants to raise the national debt by almost one trillion dollars next year alone. Obama is clueless and does not seem to understand that the country is broke with the national debt exceeding GDP for the first time in history under his watch. We need to make drastic cuts to the size of government to get spending under control. We also need to stop paying for all the freeloading illegal aliens that Obama wants to give amnesty to. Most people have no idea how much all of the benefits that get handed out to illegals costs this country in the form of free education, health care, direct cash assistance to pay for their anchor babies that they have but can not afford to care for, etc, etc. Then you have the illegals in our prisons that are costing the government tens of billions of dollars a year to house, feed, and provide with health care.
Then we have the Obama administration doing stupid things like the cash for clunkers program. Most of the money went to people who bought foreign cars. Even though some of those cars were assembled here, the profits still went overseas so the government got nothing in the way of taxes on the income the government generated for the foreign car companies. Then we have the tax credits for people buying hybrid and electric vehicles. This was supposed to be an environmental thing, but the reality is that when you look at it cradle to grave, the hybrids and electrics are far worse for the environment than an efficient gas powered car because of all the toxic waste generated and additional energy needed for the manufacture of the batteries and electric drive systems, not to mention the disposal of the toxic batteries. Even if that were not the case, why should the government subsidize these cars. If they are not economically viable than why build them at all - or is the government going to subsidize them for ever.
Then you have all of Obama and the Democrats stimulus programs. When you look at the cost of the stimulus and the number of jobs it actually created, you could have generated more economic activity by simply mailing people checks. The stimulus plan ended up costing hundreds of thousands of dollars for every job that was created/saved even using Obama's inflated jobs numbers. A huge percentage of the stimulus funds were spent on the bureaucracy for managing the fund and accounting for where the money was spent.
Next look at all those Homeland Security grants that were given out to law enforcement. A lot of that money went to buy unneeded toys for various law enforcement agencies, with many of them made by foreign companies. One law enforcement group in AZ used $150,000 dollars in grant money to by a toy so that they could track people's cell phones without having to ask the cell company for the data. This was so they could avoid bothersome things like warrants. This is just one example of the waste in this program.
The Obama administration and Democrats are out of control with their spending and need to be reined in. The deficit has already increased more in the last three years under Obama than in the eight years Bush was in office. In the less than five years the Democrats have controlled Congress the deficit has gone up more than it did under the previous twelve years of Republican control. This massive deficit spending has to be stopped, we simply can not afford it.
In know for a fact that in SC there are more whites on entitlement than there are blacks and they vote conservative because I ask them. They said its free so why not take it before its taken away. seems to me they need help too.
I'll say this about the budget and Obama's agenda and be done. I do commercial real estate appraisal work for a living. My work recently took me to several of the nastiest trailer parks in North America. These structures are barely water-tight or sanitary.
I cannot even rationalize why we are borrowing billion$ from China to send to Pakistan or any undeserving nation when we have some of the absolute poorest people in the world. Our government has let us down severely, both parties.
Republicans vowed to block everything that Obama proposes to make the president appear to fail. They took an oath to the United States, then take another one to Grover Norquist and the rich becoming traitors to the United States which supercedes the constitution. Republicans set a record number of filibusters against the Dems and that number is still rising. Republicans want Americans to fail so they can continue with the plan of greed, give it all to the rich until there is nothing left to give. Just last week they once again opposed stopping the subsidies to Big Oil companies. Tax the middle class and poor and give it all to the rich. Enough is enough. Vote Obama/Biden 2012.
I listened to the President's speech today (to the editors). A few things get me going:
1. Retelling what he meant when he said that he was concerned that the Supreme Court, an unelected body, could undermine the federal government. He made it sound a bit more, "ha, ha I didn't mean that- I meant that they need to- will- use their best judgement here."
As I recall this guy went to Harvard LAW school. Doesn't he understand that the laws are based on the Constitution and the Supreme Court (should) worries only about a law's impacts on the meaning of the Constitution? I know he's a savy guy, so he knows what he said- he had a bully pulpet and he was, again, trying to put the Supreme Court on notice and in line with him (recall the SOTU a year ago?). Just like that little statement that the White House council put out a few weeks ago essentially telling the Surpreme Court how to decide.
2. The budget- He proceeded to say that we need to spend more and that the only part of the equation that is out of line is "revenues"- AKA taxes. He wants more of them. Of course he said that the Republicans caused the problem and that the Republican leadership in the states cut a lot of teacher and police (who's re-employment by more spending would create more revenues). He wants to rehire them...... Get it, more spend spend politics to the unions that give him donations and support.
Hate to break it to you, but if you just look at the Northeast it's democratic governors whom are now cutting union contracts, cutting teacher/police jobs, and facing massive spending deficits. Does that mean that state democrats are the only democrats willing to take on their fiscal problems- seems like it. That's because they are directly linked to the state budgets, directly linked to the state deficits, and their constituencies. Too bad that federal representatives aren't or they might make some hard choices too.
Once this country is on the verge of a total financial collapse in the next 10 to 15 years if not sooner, do you suppose the rest of the world will decide the US is too big to fail and come to our rescue? The Democrats have become the party of blame. Obama is the blamer in chief. Blame but no solutions.
I have to laugh at the Obama supporters calling the Republicans the party of no. I would argue that it is impossible since the Democrats have brought nothing to the table for which the Republicans can say no. Blame Bush, bash Republican proposals, and offer nothing. Welcome to the new Democratic Party of the people and for the people.
At some point in time all the Obama supporters need to put on their big boy pants and face the reality of the situation. Blaming Bush fixes NOTHING. Blaming Bush does not absolve you of guilt. Obama has increased spending not reduced it. Obama has offered not one single solution, but he attacks anyone that does.
We are reaching the point where it is put up or shut up. Either Obama can do the job or he can't. When all you have to offer is blame, then obviously Obama is not up for the job of being president. Obama has already added more to the national debt in 3.5 years then any other previous president. Obama if given a second term is on pace to add more to our national debt then all previous presidents combined. What a legacy. I doubt the historians will still be blaming Bush.
Obama had a deal with both cuts and TAX INCREASES and he "moved the goal post" as they say and said he wanted more tax increases after already coming to an agreement. Instead of just attacking the Ryan Plan Obama could say he doesn't oppose all of it and would work with Ryan on a compromise if he was willing. To expect Republicans to write a plan with compromise already in it is just stupid, you start with a plan that only has things you would be ok with and then compromise with the other side to get something passed. The fact is the Government is going broke and doing nothing about it, all rhetoric aside you will need to do both (Tax increase and Cut) to not go under but I don't see where Obama is willing to cut for compromise.
Have some more Koolaid. Try getting your news from somewhere else besides MSNBC.
"'History will not be kind' to Obama," nor will the voters.
Mabus hasn't had a buget since he was elected. It'll all be over soon.
Do you have any proof to go with your statement? So what your saying is if Obama asked Republicans for more military spending and to cut social spending programs Republicans would vote against it just to prove Obama is a failure? Are you saying Democrats didn't filibuster Bush, or just not as much? Maybe if Obama would work with Republicans instead of making speeches that blame and criticize everyone he could get more to pass. Remember he did have both house with a filibuster proof majority for a little while, something Republicans have NEVER had.
Well John-2032532
It seems that you have proved the point that trick down economics DOES NOT work. So its time to increase the taxes back to the Clinton tax rates for people making 250,000 and above. Its common knowledge you need to raise revenues and and cut spending. the CBO's estimates shows that the tax cuts that the GOP have fought for is one of the reasons the we are in this mess. Also the two unfunded wars that we were in. So how about bring the troops home. Also closed non strategic bases around the world. Those two ideas alone will bring in billions and save billions. Its time for common sense not bi partisan bickering.
Paul Ryan's budget calls for huge cuts in Medicare, education, and other key areas while providing additioinal tax breaks to the wealthiest Americans.
And to JD in SD, you're missing quite a few facts. When President Obama took office, the US was losing around 750,000 jobs each month. The last quarter of 2008 saw an annualized drop in growth approaching 9%. President Obama continued the bank bailout begun by George W Bush, initiated a bailout of the auto industry savings hundreds of thousands of US jobs, and worked to pass the stimulus package. The stimulus put a bottom under the freefall. Since the stimulus took effect at the beginning of 2010, the US has added 2.8 million jobs. In 2011 alone, 1.9 miliion private-sector jobs were created (more than the ENTIRE Bush administration), while a net of 280,000 governments jobs were lost.
A third of the stimulus was tax CUTS, affecting 95% of taxpayers. President Obama has cut the payroll tax and had to fight to keep it cut, provides tax cuts to companies hiring the long-term unemployed, and a $5900 tax cut to companies hiring War Veterans.
Under President Bush, new policies on taxes and spending cost the taxpayer a total of $5.07 trillion. Under Obama's budgets, both past AND projected, her will have added $1.4 trillion in two terms. Under Bush and the GOP, nondefense discretionary spending grew by TWICE AS MUCH as under Obama.
The Congressional Budget Office projected that "obamacare" will REDUCE the deficit, not increase it dramatically as Bush's unfunded Medicare Prescription Drug benefit did. Obamacare is based on the individual mandate, an idea pioneered by the archconservative Heritage Foundation, Newt Gingrich, and Mitt Romney. Embedded in it are also a slew of cost-reduction pilot programs to slow health-care spending. It makes 44 milliion current free-riders pay into the system.
The Bush administration did NOT include the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars onto the national deficit, but rather defense spending/pentagon budget. President Obama moved this debt to the deficit, which is where it should have been to begin with. President Obama HAS reigned in spending. The bank and auto bailouts were successful and the debt repaid, and our economy is growing. This is DESPITE the GOP ending subsidies for farmers but retaining them for oil industries. DESPITE the GOP voting against $35 billion to repair over 55,000 public schools that are in pitiful condition and would have created an estimated 100,000 construction/manufacturing jobs. DESPITE the GOP voting against a $50 billion stimulus to repair our infrastructure and created an estimated 150,000 construction/manufacturing jobs. Corporations are LEAVING the US for countries with better infrastructure, because time is money, and we argue about fixing potholes.
And check your facts about the cash-for-clunkers programs, the American auto industry had a significant increase in sales at a time when they were bleeding sales and money. Non-partisan groups have determined this program was one of the best government programs in several decades. It also took gas-guzzling vehicles off the road for smaller cars with less gas consumption. Currently, with the additional off-shore drilling President Obama ok'd, the US is consuming less oil with an increased supply. If the GOP would tone-down the rhetoric about Iran, then the speculators wouldn't keep shooting up the cost per barrel. Approximately $0.56 to $0.80 per cost of each gallon of gasoline is pure wall street speculation. The side-effect of no regulations and a free market.
Before you regurgitate Fox news, check your FACTS.
YES!, Well, the republicanCrimeCartelSoldiers DID DoubleDown with their DOUBLE TALK and ryan's Clueless, IQless INCREDIBLY SelfCentered, BastilleBudget. While MittTaxPittanceRommel has cleared a COOL CASH Amount of $45,000,000, He paid 13% tax, While WE "little people" paid his tax balance of $8,000,000. So here is the republicanCrimeCartelBastilleThinking: As, just before the French Revolution, The rich aristocrats possessed 95% of France's wealth, like today in America, Causing Failure for job creation and A National healthCare System then. Today, the republicanCrimeCartel tosses YOU AND YOUR FAMILY to the Mercy of ryan's buddies over at the "HealthCare" insurance industry... Did ANY OF YOU KNOW What the ceo of UNITED HEALTHCARE Took home as CASH Salary in 2007??? Here it comes:$128,000,000 for that year's "compensation" while he instructed his "Health insurance adjusters" to find any reason to reject a life saving medical procedure claim; while his confederates over at the "republicanCrimeCartelAliBabbaCave: Inhabitants: MittTaxPittanceRommel- war with iran, PaulPusRyan, THEGangrene, erictCan'tOrElse, THE BONER , M!tchTh'B!TCHMcConMan, and ALL the other republicanCrimeCartelSewage SLEAZING Over Crapital Hill Who WILL HARM YOU AND YOUR FAMILY'S BEST INTERESTS IF GIVEN THE CHANCE in The November Elections. Look at what the republicanCrimeCartel is doing to Gas and Oil prices, which is SOLELY THEIR CALL.
Ok, so Prez O Is no angel, BUT he Is More Compassionate and Helpful then the above mentioned Club of Sleaze and Indentured Slavery Intended for You and Your Family.
It would put prez O over the top if he issued an executive order to indict oil industry top managment and Nationalize the American Oil Industry......
Don't be a moron...
Actually obama should have started selling the populace on fiscal restraint from the get go. Not so much as to not trying to stimulate the economy, but rather as keeping the populace informed as to what would be coming down the road as recovery was underway. Unfortunately for him, he essentially ignored what the midterm elections said as well as his own debt commission recommendations.
In his speech today he once again tries to fix blame solely on the right while making very generalized comments on his actions. For me, the message from a potus should be one of unity going forward, not trying to afix blame.
Recently on bloombergTV (which basically deals only with economic and business news, or politics as it may affect them) a commentator brought up JFK's policy decisions in his first and only term. JFK had the choice of taking a "safe" path in his first term on policy to ensure re-election or to proceed with what he believed. I do know that one area going forward from 1963 was civil rights and I unfortunately don't recall his 2nd controversial objective. The point being is that JFK put his re-election desires behind what was right for America to move forward.
To bad obama didn't take that same tack as we now have the scotus deciding on the constitutionality of a rushed plan for healthcare and the economic cliff awaiting us jan 1 2013 with the automatic cuts to our military and entitlements as well as the end of the obama (bush) tax cuts and payroll tax cuts.
WHY does Obama always have to characterize everything as "RIGHT" OR "LEFT"? That is EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH HIM.
He has POLITICIZED the White House, our country and EVERY ASPECT OF OUR NATIONAL DIALOGUE!!
This seems to be permanently dividing the country (along lines that I don't even understand how/why they were drawn for me) and contributing to the lack of civility and courteous exchange of ideas that is required to more our Nation forward!!! Almost no issue is simply "Right" or "Left". Why does he insist on characterizing things this way other than to divide people even more in an election year when what is needed is UNIFICATION and PULLING TOGETHER FOR COMMON GOALS.
That is why I simply cannot stand to listen to him anymore. The "Divider in Chief" moniker seems to fit him well.
While I agree that spending needs to be cut but what I don't understand is why so many republicans are in favor of more war...why they are against the spending cuts that are military supported in defense? Why so many republicans would rather see their sons and daughters killed in war than to see their neighbor get health care?
We as a nation can't be everything to everyone but fascism-(extreme right) is no more sustainable in the long term than socialism is on the left. They have to find a balance between corporate and the workers interests, until this extremism is gone we are screwed.
Instead of blame, I would like some real answers and Ryans fascist budget is not real answers, its essentially corporate welfare.
The majority of the Republican Party has become dogmatic about every issue in order to demonize anyone who does not agree with them. Most of their "elected positions" were bought and paid for by those who have had an "agenda" to turn our Democracy into a Parliamentary form of Government. Karl Rove openly discussed that was his role/mission in politics. That is why he initiated his plan to place GOP Governors in every State. It is now beginning to backfire. While all of you may disagree with Democratic Principles, the function of a Federal Government is to budget and take care of what individual States and Corporate Business cannot achieve. THAT IS ITS FUNCTION. Somewhere, at some point in time not yet documented, the GOP began to appeal to people who have no idea about how Government Functions and began an appeal to "Religious Issues", Paternalism, Fourteenth Century Existence in order to attack what they don't like. Disagree but don't "Hate" for God's sake. We should be progressing forward in time, not spinning backward with ideas that have proven to hold societies no longer in existence. We are not a Theocracy. People need to return to voting by being educated on the issues and researching candidates on their own instead of relying upon media messaging. Like it or not the President has spoken the truth. Remember the Fall of the Roman Empire? We are headed that direction fast.
So what's Comrade Prez B.O.'s plan? That moron wants to keep spending... All those Commie/Democrates want to do is to keep spending. At some point it has to stop. China owns us aready! What is the Democrates plan? Raise taxes on the rich?? If I hear that one more time I am going to vomit. They aren't going to raise taxes on the rich because they all give big donations and the Hollyweird crowd pay 35,000 dollars a plate at fundraising events. The 'rich' are not going to be taxed it's the middle class that will be taxed.
The Republican Party and it's constituents are so devoid of any facts or common sense that it is a reckless attack on the fabric of this Nation god help us if these slave masters take over our government. We as the educated American People have to stop this invasion of these Anti Ameican Politicians.
In other words, increase taxes on the working poor who are barely able to make ends meet, in order to cut taxes on the wealthy... Do you really want more people going on welfare because otherwise they can't afford to pay for food, rent, and higher taxes? Or would you rather they go homeless in order to pay the taxes, or maybe starve in order to pay those taxes?
Or is it that you just don't give a damn as long as your taxes get cut....
That sums it up. The bombing of the Planned Parenthood facility in Wisconsin is the kind of desperate act we see whenever these far-right douche-bags *imagine* they are losing ground in some way. Whether it's domestic terrorism (AKA resorting to second amendment rights) or doubling down, this is what Teapublicans do when they don't feel they are getting their way through normal process (i.e., democracy and majority rule).
The far-right in the country uses obstructionism (filibuster), hostage-taking (debt ceiling crisis), subversion (primary threats, gerrymandering, voter ID suppression), "starve the beast" anarchy, and are even resorting to Police State (e.g., strip search ruling) and Marshall Law (Emergency Financial Managers) behavior in their attempt to force their minority agenda on the rest of the nation. The Tea Party sabotage must end NOW -- Throw these fascist anarchist out!
LogicReguired -- What ever your moniker means, why negotiate with terrorists? Paul Ryan's plan is to the right of Attila the Hun, so it is the GOP/TP that needs to move to the center -- Talk about moving goal posts. Everytime the president or Dems have offered olive branches and concessions the Teapublicans act like the word "compromise" is an evil, dirty word. Puleeze! Boehner can't control the Teabaggers in the House, and that's why the Big Deal failed.
coldbuns -- Try posting your FAUX News talking points somewhere else besides MSNBC.
Um, actually, most of the National Debt is held by the wealthiest 1% in this country. With those fat tax cuts leaving them more money, they chose to "invest" their windfall by buying Treasury Bonds, and the record deficits meant there was lots of Bonds sold at good rates. The Teapublicans want to reduce taxes on the rich even more, giving them even more money to buy up more T-bills, with ever increasing deficits to supply those T-bills.
In short, the Teapublicans are trying to sell the US to the 1%.
I agree with you completely, we the corps. It would take someone with half a brain not to take this as a starting point. Unfortunately, Obama wants more money before he even thinks about cutting the waste and size of government. If Obama would quit demonizing and get serious about spending cuts, not just cutting the rate of growth of spending, then we could come up with revenue to make up the shortfall.
Unfortunately Obama would rather convince people that he needs to take more money out of the economy to grow the behemoth of government at our expense, than be a reasonable leader.
Obama is the one that is too radical, not the republicans.
Those are good ideas. If it is common knowledge we need to cut, what is Obama's problem?
Watch this ABC News Report on how Obama is spending Our Money on American projects using Chinese firms
CLICK here: U.S. Bridges, Roads Being Built by Chinese Firms | Video - ABC News
Do you still trust Obama?
"President Barack Obama took to the podium at an Associated Press luncheon on Tuesday to hit hard at the budget put forward by House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan."
Gee, I wonder why? Could it be that Ryan actually calls attention to the HUGE Medicare/Medicaid Deficit.
In reviewing Obama's own 2013 Budget projections (link below), this is what we find;
The projected Revenues for Medicare/Medicaid over the next 10 years are $2.823 Trillion.
The projected Costs for Medicare/Medicaid over the next 10 years are $11.134 Trillion.
That leaves a net Deficit in the Medicare/Medicaid programs of $8.311 Trillion, which is even greater than the total projected Federal Deficits of $6.684 Trillion over the next 10 years. In other words, if we did not have a Deficit from health care 'entitlements', we would have a budget SURPLUS of more than $1.6 Trillion over the next 10 years.
Obviously, something needs to be done with this HUGE 'entitlement problem', but Obama has conveniently ignored the problem in his Budget projections, and will demonize any Republicans that try to address the problem (Rep. Ryan).
It's a shame that the media does not give us the information that we need to make intelligent choices.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/tables.pdf Table S-5
subnormal- Uh, NO. S&P specified the reasons for the downgrade of our credit rating as being due in large part to Teapublican obstructionism that brought the debt crises down to the wire.
Ruken-- Spot on about GOP/TP hypocrisy. Why did Teapublicans filibuster Simpson-Bowles, or why are they defending tax expenditures (subsidies) to so-called manufacturing that includes Big Oil, or why weren't they willing to pay for the payroll tax cuts with a surtax on millionaires? Because these douche-bags are not interested in the deficit except to increase deficits as an excuse for cutting everything they've been against since the New Deal.
This is OLD news -- Folks know by now that Republicans are not for "The People." End the GOP/TP Race to the Bottom, with every man, woman, and child for his/herself. Reelect President Obama and give him a congress that will actually show up for work and cooperate in finding solutions for ALL.
What "more war" are you talking about? Everyone in the nation including Democrats was in favor of war in Afghanistan which Obama has EXPANDED. The Iraq war was not as united but still many of the Democrats voted for the action and not against it. Most Republicans I talk to want the wars to end as much as everyone else so I don't know what your talking about. And Military cuts have already happened and have been happening since Reagan so quit bringing it up like the Defense Budget never gets touched. And no one wants to see anyones sons or daughters die that is just stupid. But just because you don't want war doesn't mean you war won't happen, they brought the war to us rememeber? How many sons and daghters died that day? I'm not against my neighbors having health care, I'm against having to pay for it, just like I pay for their education, food stamps, Social Security, Mortgage, ect.. I can't afford to pay for everyone elses life, we have to have limits on the HAND OUTS.
Again, who wants Fascism? Most on the right are either Social Conservatives, Fiscal Conservative, or Small Government types. I know no one who would fit under the Fascism banner.
Again I have no idea what your saying. Ryans plan doesn't assign blame to anyone, it is Obama who is making speeches blaming people for the problems. You may not like Ryans plan but it would cut the deficit and balance the budget. You may want to do this another way which is fine but his plan is not fascist for simply taking Government programs running red ink and cutting until they are sustainable. Corporate Welfare is when you give a company TAX PAYERS dollars, not when you let them keep their own. GM was a corporate welfare company, Gm was broke until the Government came in and saved them. Exxon was the beneficiary of a tax CUT meaning they still paid taxes to the Government but were allowed to keep more of their PROFIT then in the past, this is not welfare. Again you may disagree with the what the solution to these problems are but you are totally misinformed on the definition of the terms you use (Fascism and corporate Welfare)
Excellent post Roy. If Obama is blasting the GOP budget it must have some merit. After all his own party won't even consider his budget....it was hands down for it.
When will the public wake up and understand that enormous deficit spending not survive and the government can not continue to expand and spend itself into oblivion? When we go broke they will cry and moan..where are our handouts. Those of us who have been paying for years will suffer the most I am afraid. The young ones now paying bettter develop their own savings plan and quick.
The media will never reveal the information that we should have...they are too tied to the liberal notion.
The election this year will focus on whether we can afford 4 more years of Obama.
Here are the Deficit figures for the last 5 Presidents - with a link to the official government source to verify;
Reagan (1981-1988) = $1.339 Trillion over 8 years, or $167 Billion per year.
Bush 1 (1989-1992) = $933 Billion over 4 years, or $233 Billion per year.
Clinton (1993-2000) = $320 Billion over 8 years, or $40 Billion per year.
Bush 2 (2001-2008) = $2.006 Trillion over 8 years, or $251 Billion per year.
Obama (2009-2012p) = $5.333 Trillion (Proj) over first 4 years, or $1,333 Billion per year. That's $4.6 Trillion more than Bush spent in his first 4 years.
If Obama is reelected, he projects another $5 Trillion of Deficits in the next 4 years, or over $10 Trillion which our children and grandchildren will have as a 'millstone' around their necks for their entire lives. Running up huge debts is a great way to 'pander for votes', but somebody will have to pay it back (our children) - with interest.
Here's the official government link - See Table 1.3;
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals
PS – Let's also look at the 'JOBS' picture under Obama;
The total average number of people employed in 2008 (Bush's last year, including losses at the end of 2008) = 136,790,000.
The total average people employed in 2011 (Obama's 3rd year) = 131,359,000 – that's a LOSS under Obama of 5,431,000 net jobs. Here's the Link to official Bureau of Labor Statistics site on employment to verify - Compare jobs for 2011 vs 2008;
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.ceseeb1.txt
Until everybody can be honest, we will solve nothing and is 10 -25 years the nation that we know will be gone.
We don't have enough money to cover our costs.
If people are really honest they know things need to be cut but those cuts need to be fazed in otherwise our economy will collapse.
The military spending needs to stop increasing and slowly brought down.
SS and Medicare need to be reformed in there current state they simply are unsustainable.
Foreign spending needs to be decreased, why are we subsidizing Brazilian oil?
When the Government proves it has a clue what to do with our money we can talk about increasing taxes to help pay down debt but until then taxes should be off the table.
Also at the end of the year the Obama tax cuts(formally known as the Bush tax cuts) end and the SS tax will go back up to 6.2% does anybody here think if these are allowed to expired we won't fall into a depression?
Please provide a link to back up your assertion. I may be wrong but I never remember any Simpson and Bowles plan going anywhere. Democrats were as against it as the Republicans if not more so because the plan called for a lot of cuts and even had some TAX cuts as well. There was no filibuster, both parties rejected it for different reasons and not even Obama would back the plan he had them make up. Again I may be wrong but you will need to prove it to me.
Obama's rage over anything that even holds the specter of spending reductions illustrates one glaring problem. With his maniacal spending and giveaways designed to buy votes and leading to record deficits and an ever mounting astronomical debt, one thing has become painfully clear. We can no longer afford ourselves and bankruptcy followed by a descent into socialism is assured.
This was Obama's plan from the beginning… welcome to the collective.
The reason for the "starve the beast" mentality is that the beast doesn't consume on a dollar for dollar ratio. For every dollar in tax revenue we send this bloated, grostesque monster, he spends a buck-fifty. If we agree to a tax increase every dollar, plus another 50% is going to be spent. We have no choice but to starve the beast. I believe most Americans would agree to increased taxes (at least those paying taxes) IF there was some guarantee that it would go directly to deficit reduction. It won't. It will be spent, spent, spent. The deficits will grow larger, and contributing Americans will be left with less money in their pockets. Which leads to less money to spend, which leads to an economic downward spiral. That everyone can't see this is beyond my comprehension. Conservatives are not trying to rob from the poor - hell they don't have anything to steal. A conservative wants everyone to succeed at the highest possible level. We want everyone to be a millionaire. We believe everyone has the potential to succeed. We believe that the economy and wealth creation is like the universe - ever expanding. It's not a fixed sized pie that needs to be sliced up so everyone has a "fair" share. We believe in growing the pie so that everyone has a larger slice. A liberal mindset believes just the opposite. That somehow, everyone that has wealth has somehow stolen it or obtained it either illegally or unethically. That is the only basis for a liberal platform. A pitting of the haves against the have nots. A conservative platform says there is opportunity for everyone - go get it. If you don't believe in the opportunities, you have become brainwashed and content to let others do all the heavy lifting.
John-2032532-- The president's most recent budget proposal had spending at only 18% of GDP (only 1% more than Romney's at 17% of GDP). Unlike Paul Ryan's radical far-right social engineering (or should I say economic destruction), which does not balance the budget, the president had REVENUE in his budget. "It is common knowledge we need" revenue and not just cuts to reduce the huge deficits we face thanks to Dubya and GOP voodoo economics and war mongering.
What's your problem?
I can't help that you are a low-information voter. Try Google (filibuster of Simpson-
Bowles, try Morning Joe and read up). Otherwise, stop voting. Voting is not just a privilege, it is a responsibility.
Wake UP - the example is education. "It" consistently says we don't spend enough (yet we spend more on education than any country on Earth), yet every time we feed it more money it spends it and cries for more and justifies it by saying we hate the poor.
""It is common knowledge we need" revenue"
Really every Government program has waste, fraud and massive abuse, yet we need to give it more.
I would be willing to give it a little more if it every proved to trustworthy instead of taking it, padding a friends pocket, laughing and asking for more.
To JS in SD
Thank you!!! I am so sick of the political CRAP I could scream! Stimulus my a$$. Money down the toilet so even more politicians, bank executives, and other low-lifes could rub their hands together trying to figure out what they were going to do with THEIR proceeds! Health care plan? Let me tell you. My daughter has been battling a medical problem for 23 years. Two days ago, we were informed she needs another surgery ASAP, and that this is an aggressive cancer. Her last surgery was in December: 14 hours, a 10 pound tumor the size of a football was removed. The current MRI shows 4 more tumors. Her insurance won't pay for the prescribed chemotherapy. We aren't able to "just pay for it." It's $10,000 per month! We are white folk. NOT on any kind of assistance! There's your "health care reform." To quote the person in the white house from a book HE WROTE (Dreams From My Father): "I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating to whites." "I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race." A quote from another book (Audacity of Hope) by the same person, "I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction." So, in my opinion, unless a person is stinking rich (Romney) or a person of color, nobody gives a DAMN about a hardworking white person with a medical death sentence. THERE'S your "health care reform", Obama. I'll send you the obituary. There, Sir, is MY "Coil of Rage."
Beth, yes, please do lets check out the facts...
By standard economists standards the reccession ended around june/july of 2009 when the GDP rate turned positive. While money from the 2009 stimulas didn't start flowing immediately it was flowing prior to the start of 2010.
Interesting comment...
You do realize that defense spending is automatically a part of the budget and therefore the deficit regardless of where the money was spent.
Cool... you say
Yet he always wants to raise the debt ceiling with the next debt ceiling raise estimated to occur 4th qtr 2012. Doesn't this imply he wants to spend?
As for infrastructure I see that his "shovel ready jobs" were very successful. <end sarcasm> To bad for us that you ignore the methodology behind obamas stimulas plans. He didn't use a lazer focus in the stimulas plan, but rather a sawed off shotgun approach hoping that some shot would hit a target, any target. Targets which btw were oriented towards retaining public sector jobs at the expense of private sector jobs.
You do realize that without private sector jobs there would be no revenue to pay for public sector jobs or programs, right?
Really?? Seems more likely that Americans purchase more based on price or brand and that transportation costs (outside of fuel) are less of an issue than labor costs in any business bottom line. I must have missed all the reports that our infrastructure was causing the delays that you suggest. BTW, I am all for the need for infrastructure maintenance, to bad both sides of the aisle are not so inclined. Here in iowa we have only two seasons, winter and road construction.
Ah, the cash for clunkers program... Bet that program worked out really well for those unemployed who couldn't qualify for vehicle loans right? Seems that all it did was take vehicles off the road and raise the used car prices for those left. I bet auto sales dropped off after the program ended.
Iran, Hmmmm??? Obama is CinC and controls the state department and its resulting foreign policy, he sets the tone and he is the one with the power, not any presidential wannabe or congress person. You do realize that oil is a globally traded commodity priced in US dollars right? Don't you find it interesting that when oil futures contracts expire that there is not a sharp move in oil prices?
If the GOP and wall street control speculation why is it that the most powerful man in the free world just shrugs his shoulders and says we need to look into it? Of course he and pelosi did bring bush2 to task in 2007/2008 for high pump prices but last year and this he just blows it off. I wonder what last years studies showed?
Interesting numbers you give...
Perhaps you should look up the historical debt figures from the US treasury to see your errors. Even the most rudimentary analyses puts bush as leaving a total national debt of about $11 trillion and change (from which you probably derived your $5 trillion nominal debt increase) yet our current national debt is $15 trillion and counting these past three years. Quite the disconnect from your projected debt as $1.4 trillion for 8 years under obama and the reality of $4 trillion the historical debt says that have added these past three years. And I am being very generous on my rounding.
Seems that if facts were a mean bulldog, you would constantly be in the ER seeking medical assistance.
True Patriot, your laughable, it's COMMON knowledge that you could raise taxes on the wealthy to 100% and still not balance the budget. How much money would you invest in the market if your gains were taxed at a 60% rate? Europe, Liberal states like New York and California have all tried to tax there way to a balanced budget and they all have FAILED. Just because taxes go up doesn't mean revenue will go up genius, you are assuming no on will change their habits or spending when you tell them your going to take more from them. Try to blame Republicans all you want the biggest budget problems are with Social Security (Started by the Democrats) Medicare and Medicaid (Started by the democrats) and Government pensions (Democrat promises). The defense budget doesn't even come close to the other programs red ink, and tax cuts sometimes EQUAL more growth and more revenue. Spending has been the problem. Congress spends more every year regardless of revenue.
Tom - BINGO!! Perfect example. Apply that across the board to every area of government - military included.
Tom - Plymouth-- What happened to the time when Americans felt it was their patriotic duty to "do their bit" as they used to say -- Whether it was buying War Bonds or enlisting or volunteering, but at the minimum paying taxes. The Teabaggers have demonized every kind of civic duty including civility to one another.
The problem in Greece was not just spending. No one was paying their damn taxes, especially the rich. This is the same problem in Italy and elsewhere. But good ole FOX Noise never reports that part of the equation, do they? US Tax rates haven't been lower since the 1950s -- Pay you damn taxes and stop the incessant whining!
Frankie Littlevia Facebook -- No, they do not. As posted above, most Treasury Bonds are owned by US citizens, and Japan and other countries too. In regard to communism, perhaps we need to rethink the FACT that China is kicking out butts in regard to manufacturing and trade. What is wrong with our "free market" that we aren't more competitive? We need "fair play" -- that means regulation, access to opportunity, and most of all $$$ out of politics (Citizen's United needs to be countered, Glass-Steagall needs to be reinstated, etc.). Start by throwing the Teapublicans out!
China owns us guys and ladies. Years ago we were told by the communist "They would bury us withiin" and it is happening, except its our own government who will bury us. We can't tke care of our own, as some one said, our homeless and our children are going hungry, they live from paycheck to paycheck. all our goods are made in China or some other country. The work is poor, the materials are inferior. Our constition is laughted at, In another 15 years we will not be a nation to be rectoned with, infact we are almost there now. I dread the fact of what kind of America our granchildren will inhiet. We fight a war in a country who does not want us there, They murder our soldiers, but God forbid if one of theirs die, we pay resitution , etc. We are out of Iran, why are still in Afganistan? People tample and burn our flag. There is no respect for the country we call the United Statas of America. We are a divided nation. This country takes God out of our school and want to take God out of our country. I see the good old American coin and dollar still have the "trust in God" Our Congress and Senate are far overpaid, too many freebies, so is our president. The canidates sling mud at each other, when all of them or guilty. As far as our military is concern, all you out there should worry about downsizing. I am old enough to remember pearl Harbor and the attack. If attacked big time, we woud not survive. We would not survive because people will not rally behind us. Our freedom wil be gone. To many people have no concerns how this country is run. They only think of whats in it for them. Yes, Obama will be elected, and not by by popular vote. That is the thing of the past. They say we in an inflation--crap. I also remember the big depression. Uimployement has gone up, they say there are more jobs??? The imployed figures have went down because they have not signed an extension, so the people who have no unemployent are considered employed. Ha. Yes, Obama will be elcted and not by popular vote. He seems pretty sure of that. But I wil not vote for him. There is not much out there to consider, we can ony try to decide who will be less of the 2 evils. So you all tell me in plain words---what has Obama done for the people of the United States. Education funds have gone to nothing, our kids do not get the education they deserve, We have little protection from crime, our police departments have been downsized. Crime raes have gone up. Just some examples people. Yes I am an Americian and I am proud of our flag and our country and its very hard for us older ones to see how our contary has fallen. These are my opinions and that is all. I never revisit my comments. You all out there have your own ijust as I do.Thats still one right I have left. Maybe?????
True "No one was paying their damn taxes, especially the rich."
I am not rich by any means and truthfully with the housing tax credit and child credit I only pay about 7% in federal income taxes. Haven't had a raise in 4 years.
But the rich not paying their taxes is only a tiny issue. If we taxed the rich at 90% we will still have a deficit of almost a trillion just this year.
The Government (Notice I didn't say Dems or Repubs) has screwed us so bad by inflation amongst other things that most us us can't afford to pay anymore taxes without destroying the economy.
Now it is us to decided if that was negligence or intentional on their part. (I lean towards the intentional)
LogicReguired -- Where do you get this crap? No one has EVER proposed raising taxes on the rich 100% -- this is FOX Noise talking points. We need a balanced approach! We need to end ALL tax credits, and we need to tax ALL income. Then when the economy recovers, we need to let the Bush tax cuts expire for everyone. And we need to do this along with spending cuts, creating jobs, and a whole multitude of solutions -- Not just one idiotic narrow concept, or worse populist BS Teapublicans use to get reelected.
Tom - Plymouth -- See above.
Tom of plymouth, I concur, the problem won't be solved by spending more $$$. Fix the leaks first, fix the structural defects and fix the attitudes that says "if we would only spend more" our problems would be solved. Never have understood the philosophy of spending more as being good.
Seems that politicians in the past (L or R) always looked at a pile of cash as something to wantonly spend to get votes. The left obviously wants to continue and it remains to be seen if the right does as well.
Recognizing the issue that the current Ryan Plan presents towards health care, and wanting to combat Obamacare, Republican leaders are working on a new piece of health care legislation which will be earmarked in the Ryan Plan.
This new health care bill is currently being drafted by John Kyl, Eric Cantor and Mitch McConnell... and in the spirit of patriotism (and the necessity to use the word "freedom" as much as possible), these men have decided to call it the: Freedom Under Kyl, Eric and Mitch health care bill... or F.U.K.E.M. for short.
The specifics of this new health care legislation have not been released, but health care providers have been given a brief run down of how the bill will work. Brief overview of legislation is as follows...
"All medical care providers will be required to follow certain guidelines in dispensing medical care:
1) In the event an uninsured citizen comes into the ER, in dire need of care, all medical professional shall reference section 2, line 33 of the new health care law. This outlines the new F.U.K.E.M. policy on ER visits.
2) In the event a child with a preexisting condition attempts to get medical insurance, all insurance providers shall reference section 4, line 8 of the new health care law. This outlines the new F.U.K.E.M. policy on preexisting conditions.
3) In the event a elderly citizen attempts to get medical insurance, but is becoming too costly, all insurance providers shall reference section 4, line 23 of the new health care law. This outlines the new F.U.K.E.M. policy on the costly elderly insurance plans.
4) In the event a woman requests an abortion, all personnel will immediately reference section 8, line 46 of the new health care bill, which denies all abortions under any circumstance. Once the child is born, however, this new child will not have medical insurance, and thus is subject to section 2, line 18 of the F.U.K.E.M. policy.
5) In the event that any citizen is to question these policies, they should be answered with a brief explanation that the new health care policy is based on the F.U.K.E.M belief. Furthermore, each citizen has the Freedom Under Kyl to Exit the Door... appropriate acronym may be used to save time."
It is believed that this new Republican health care law will save 50 Trillion dollars, over the next 20 years (disclaimer: 50 trillion is an approximate guess based only on the fact that a dirty, lefty lib had nothing to do with this).
Mr. John Kyl, Eric Cantor, and Mitch McConnell are confident that this new piece of legislation is the only way to save America and move it in the right direction (pun intended).
As a side note: Herman Cain has proposed that every Republican use his simplified debate tactic of merely repeating their plan when a liberal asks a question. For example: Herman Cain responded to every question with "9-9-9"... for this plan, every Republican should respond to any question with the simple remark "F.U.K.E.M."
This has been an announcement from your GOP overlords. Commence to grovel at their feet, in light of their infallible leadership.
I can't help that you are a low-information voter. Try Google (filibuster of Simpson-
Bowles, try Morning Joe and read up). Otherwise, stop voting. Voting is not just a privilege, it is a responsibility.
I guess I was all confused by the story that said the House had a VOTE on the PLAN and it was REJECTED 382-38. MEANING both Democrat and Republican opposition. But thanks for proving my point that your a joke.
The right-wing collapse cowards are here -- Thanks for playing -- Off to newer threads...
Unfortunately, Roy, your entire comment is a crock. Take the deficits, for example. For one thing, you did not specify how big the deficits were compared to GDP (which is a much better comparison), nor how much the debt was before and after those presidents' administrations. And as for Bush's figures, that is a complete lie. Bush did not increase the deficit by only $2 trillion; the debt was $5.5 trillion when he came in, and ballooned into over $11.5 trillion by the end of his budget in 2009. That totals approximately $6 trillion, spread it around 8 years and you have $750 billion a year deficits on average. And much of that was during relatively good economic times. As for Obama's deficit figures, you fail to add that Obama cannot be blamed for much of the deficit because it was accrued by the recession. Obama's stimulus actually lowered deficits by ending the recession; without it, we would currently be in the midst of a much slower recovery, like in Europe.
As for the employment numbers, you fail to specify (again) that those numbers for Bush were put before (or in the beginning) of the Great Recession. Obama came into office when we were losing hundreds of thousands of jobs every month, and the stimulus pulled us out and helped us score 2 years of consecutive private sector job growth. Not only that, but based on the employment trend pervading throughout these past few years, we will have more jobs by 2016 than we had in 2008 AND that unemployment will hover at about 5-6% at most. Sorry to burst your right-wing bubble, but facts are facts.
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
The deficits vs Gdp is the worst it has ever been for 2011, its to early for 2012 to be known. Bush did run high deficits, but never in the likes of Obama. Compare not 8 years of Bush, but any pick of Bushes 3 years to Obama's. You yourself said that the debt was 11.5 trillion by the end of Bushes term, to date it is at 15.5 plus trillion, not a great track record there. You blame the economy, fine, Obama's record stinks extremely bad there. Secondly to be fair you should give Bush a small pass on the 09 deficit for the same excuse that you are using for Obama, including his stimulus. Job numbers in 2016 is speculation, something Obama or his advisors has not done well at, 6% vs 8% unemployment, Stimulus did not create 3.5 million jobs, to date health care is less affordable, Green energy has not produced 5 million new jobs, he has not helped 9 million home owners avoid foreclosure, deficit cut in half by end of first term (Ryan is actually helping him here), I have more.
Facts are facts, Obama has not delivered, has nothing to run on, and speculated that he will be re-elected.
Ever notice how the right-wing uses this phrase a lot: "I believe."
IN comparison, the center and the left uses this phrase a lot: "I think."
----------------------
Study finds left-wing brain, right-wing brain
Even in humdrum nonpolitical decisions, liberals and conservatives literally think differently, researchers show.
http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-sci-politics10sep10,0,2687256.story
Tory voters found to have larger 'primitive' lobe in brain
Our political allegiances could be hard-wired into our brains, neuroscientists believe.
Researchers have found evidence that the brains of conservatives are a different shape to those of Left-wingers.
Scans of 90 students' brains at University College London uncovered a 'strong correlation' between the thickness of two particular areas of grey matter and an individual's political views.
Self-proclaimed right-wingers had a more pronounced amygdala - a primitive part of the brain associated with emotion.
It is an almond-shape set of neurons located deep in the brain's medial temporal lobe.
However, those aligned to the left had thicker anterior cingulates - which is an area associated with anticipation and decision-making.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1342239/Brain-study-reveals-right-wing-conservatives-larger-primitive-amygdala.html#ixzz1r9BShiMp
In laymans terms Republicans have larger brains, liberals skulls are thicker.
No seriously, your article was meant for Europeans. There the term liberal is simular, Conservitive refers to one who would prefer a return to monarchy. Left and right are both socialists in Europe. Left leans to International, the right to the national level of government.
Alright, I'll give you the budget of 2009, but that still leaves at least $5 trillion plus for Bush's tab.
Oh and to be fair on the deficit, we should write off the cost of the recession for BOTH presidents, so that would shave off a mere $1 trillion for Bush and a whopping $3 trillion plus for Obama, assuming that the recession cost $1 trillion a year in revenues and spending.
As for the stimulus, it was a success. Ask any economist. And notice how job losses turned positive a while after the stimulus passed. The stimulus created millions of jobs, check these sites (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/sep/12/rick-perry/rick-perry-says-2009-stimulus-created-zero-jobs/; http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/68965.html). And many presidents, like FDR, have gone against the Supreme Court. So don't play this like Obama is acting dictatorially. If so, than so have many of our presidents.
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
DEMOCRATS 2012
GOP EXTINCT 2012
In writing off then you must concede that then Obama has indeed been a failure with the economy. Your choice to ignore the right in cutting spending. However the point was Obama spent 800 billion in 09 that you want to give to bush. Bushes 09 budget was projected to be 400 billion in deficit, Obama, while not getting voted for, has never presented a budget less than a trillion in deficit.
Ask any economist and the stimulus was a failure, what it did do was not worth the cost. Well over $200,000 per job, and even the own governments report includes the disclaimer that it is not known what would have happened without the stimulus.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/cea_7th_arra_report.pdf
Obama crying about the supreme court doesn't bother me. Just his usual finger pointing.
S. Capps
We're just following the beliefs of the previous administration.
We were told by the man behind the curtain that "deficits don't matter".
For supporters of the Bush administration, you forget the wonderful rhetoric they provided.
Funny how, all of a sudden, deficits seems to matter, huh?
Nice arguement, I support what I bitch about.
Bush never ran deficits like Obama, are you to say its okay because Bush did it. Go ahead and blame Bush, that will make the problem go away.
S. Capps
No, I'm not saying that if Bush does it, it's ok for Obama to.
I'm saying the American people were either told the truth, that deficits do not matter, or they were lied to, that deficits do not matter.
You're saying the American people were lied to. I'm saying, what if the American people were told the truth?
#363
Lets go on back to good ole 1987, if you will listen, he clarifies what he thinks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tXSEQzVOnc
You should also see where the deficit quote came from, and the context of how it was used.
Lied to truth, whatever are you saying that you cannot see the problem for yourself, do you have to be told by the government?
The president is going to criticize Ryan after his budget numbers got shut out in the House? Really? There really is no limit to this man's arrogance.
To paraphrase Geithner: "We don't have a plan, but we do know that we don't like yours." This president is unbelievable. He has no solutions but he is always ready to attack those who offer solutions. He has got to go.
"The Ryan health care plan goes beyond a total joke"
Obama's budget:
$4 trillion in balanced, deficit reduction so that, by 2018, we cut the deficit to less than 3 percent of GDP, stabilize the debt-to-GDP ratio, and achieve primary balance.
JUMPSTART JOB CREATION
EDUCATION AND SKILLS FOR AMERICAN WORKERS
AMERICAN INNOVATION AND MANUFACTURING
BUILD AMERICA: A 21ST CENTURY INFRASTRUCTURE
AMERICAN VALUES: EVERYONE PAYS THEIR FAIR SHARE
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/overview
Republican budget: Cut old people money, cut education money, pocket it.
Obama's budget---414-0: bipartisan agreement that it sucked....
The Democratic Senate budget........??????? In its third year of abandoning its constitutional duty....
That qualifies them to criticize???? I guess the left's view is the bigger the failure they are, the more qualified they are to criticize.
Eric,
so after 10 more years of spending more money than we are taking in, we will finally have a balanced budget. I am sorry if I am not jumping up and down for joy. That means that over the next 10 years we will add about 10 trillion dollars to the debt?
I would have to do the math, but I am thinking that we would end up at about 1 trillion dollars a year just to pay the interest.
Please explain how we are then going to pay off 26 trillion dollars in total debt?
Eric: Don't attempt logic, it goes against the grain. They don't care about paying off debt, they'd rather spend and raise taxes for failed programs, demonize the rich who already pay the largest amount of taxes and note that there is not one tiny peep about the highest corporate taxes on the planet. That's because they have been programmed to hate any company or person who actually manages to generate wealth. That is a no-no in the progressive playbook. They want to spend money and where that money comes from doesn't seem to compute. They are like teenagers with Daddy's credit card.
Eric... the CBO predicts the President's budget will collapse the US economy by 2027. The current deficit spending is unsustainable. It's math.
Eric's not very good at math .... apparently never had a course in basic accounting. He cuts and pastes propaganda.
Isn't that exactly what the Republicans have done in Congress since Obama was elected? Remember "Party of No"? Bit of a short-term memory problem?
1. Where was your great outcry about paying off the debt when a Republican President sent this country to two wars without increasing revenue to fund them?
2. Where was your great outcry about paying off the debt when a Republican President reduced taxes primarily to the wealthy during a time of war?
3. Where was your great outcry about paying off the debt when a Republican controlled Congress passed Medicare Part D which forbade the federal government from negotiating drug prices like the VA does?
Your comments are completely disingenuous. Your Corporate Party is empty. Your fate is sealed.
Both parties have a lot of blame for the debt. Blaming one side over another means we won't solve any problems. Politicians aren't about action, people HATE action. Action makes you lose votes. Blaming the other guy? That gains votes. We get the government we elect, people. If you stop falling for it, you might actually see problems get solved.
Pragmatic,
You got that right.
Bush's entire war effort was $877 billion, Obama borrowed far more than that his first year and every year after with no end in sight.
It's a pathetic lie that Bush cut wealthy taxes more than the poor and middle class. The lowest bracket was lowered by 33% while the upper bracket was lowered less than 10%. After the cuts the rich paid an even higher percentage of the tax burden.
Obamacare forbids Medicare negotiating, he used that to keep big pharma from opposing it.
Those that ignore 2010 are doomed to repeat it, it is liberals fate that is sealed.
Finally, we weren't happy with Bush's $230 average deficits, but are livid at Obama's $1.3 trillion, over 5x higher. Trying to equate the two is pure propaganda.
I dont see running for office is you are so smart. Oh I forgot if you were smart you wont be following the losser party. Seems like name calling is all the repups know how to do. You do it to each other so well.
Ol Doc: Bush is no longer in office, he hasn't been in office for almost four years now. If you want to continue to blame Bush, go for it. It doesn't solve any problems but it will make you feel better. Now, while you keep up with the 'your' party and 'your' fate is sealed, do you live here? Will you be exempt from splatter when the SHTF? Perhaps the more intelligent course would be to quit with the blame game, get honest about what is REALLY happening with Obama's agendas and realize that we are all stuck in the same rowboat.
Remember -- the Ryan budget is so bad even the republicans in the Senate want nothing to do with it.
" Bush is no longer in office, he hasn't been in office for almost four years now. If you want to continue to blame Bush, go for it."
You Republicans have a very short memory. From 1976 to 1992 you whined and cried, moan and groaned and complained and complained more and bitched, carried on and on and blamed President Carter of everything wrong in the entire universe. Then from 1992 to 2008 you whined and cried, moan and groaned and complained and complained more and bitched, carried on and on and blamed President Clinton for everything that was wrong in the entire universe. So – using the standard you set – the left has another 29 years to blame Bush for everything just to pull even with you.
Anything a politician promises that won't be delivered until after term limits insure he will be gone is a lie.
Any plan that doesn't significantly reduce the deficit in the current fiscal year is worthless rhetoric meant only to placate voters.
I started to respond and then thought better of it.
Republican Motto's
1. What's yours is mine and what's mine is mine.
2. If you steal a car, you go to jail. If you steal someone's life savings, we'll make you a CEO
3. DO NOT GET sick.. I repeat, do not get sick. We have no health care plan for you and do not care.
4. We want government out of your lives.. unless it goes against our christian beliefs.. then we have every right to make christian laws over secular law.
5. If Obama does it, its wrong.. if we do the same thing Obama does, it's right... Why? because we said so!
Yet, Romney's tax plan, raises the deficit by 900 billion by 2015, and heavily favors the rich at the expense of the poor and elderly.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57389459-503544/analysis-romney-tax-plan-strongly-favors-the-rich/
"Mitt Romney's new tax plan strongly favors the wealthiest Americans, offering earners in the top 20 percent an average tax cut of more than $16,000 while raising taxes on the bottom 20 percent of earners, according to an analysis from a non-partisan Washington think tank.
The analysis out Thursday from the Tax Policy Center, a joint venture of the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution think tanks, finds that under Romney's plan the bottom 20 percent would see their average federal tax rate increase $149, or 1.3 percent.
The top 20 percent, meanwhile, would see an average tax cut of $16,134 -- a 5.4 percent reduction in their tax rate. The top one percent of earners would see their average tax rate fall by nearly $150,000 per year, and the top 0.1 percent would see a reduction of more than $725,000.
More "starve the beast capola".
@ol doc - My mother used to say, " If your friends jumped off a cliff, would you do it?" For all the hate Obama stirred up about Bush, he is doing the same thing: expanding government, reducing freedom, and spending money we don't have. Just because Bush leading the country over a cliff doesn't mean that it is right for Obama lead us over the cliff faster. The only change from Bush is that Obama is killing us faster.
mygirl1 - We are NOT stuck in the same boat. Take a look at the increasing disparity between top 1% of the income bracket and the rest of us. Take a look at the figures over the last 30 years. The numbers don't lie. All of you on the right seem so upset that Democrats are talking about the war on the middle class but again, numbers don't lie. You favor continuing the great "trickle-down" theory of economics. We've done that for the last 30 years. How long do you have to repeat the same actions before you understand they will get the same results? Or are these the results you want? Is the age of the Robber Baron's really what you want? Do you really want (as a woman) to give up control over your health care to fundamentalist? What will it take for you, perhaps being forced to wear a burka?
Eric,
why compare PBO's plan to Romney, his is just a bad.
They are both lying to the people to get elected, they both suck and kick the can down the road. Of course the road is only so much longer and shortly we are all going to crash into it head first and wonder what the heck happened.
Ryan's plan isn't the best either, but of the three is the only one that is close to honest.
Hey Ol_Doc...
Talk about the "Party of No" if you like, however I think the Dems have that one sowed up, seeing as they have presented NO budget plans... and haven't had for oh... 3 YEARS! I for one am sick of the he said she said B.S. It's time for those on the hill to *** t or get off the pot! And that goes for both of the corrupt batches of hooligans up there, yours and mine....and the SCOTUS....for that matter!
There is no sense of history on this blog. I'm finding it a waste of time to read any of it.
There is no way to understand what we face unless we get off the dumb trip we call American Exceptionalism and see things as they are, quit blaming the other guy and educate ourselves as to what the hell has been going on since this country began.
We absolutely cannot afford to continue to keep moving the wealth up to the very rich and pretend that somehow some crumbs will trickle down to the others.
I keep hearing how the government is too much in our business and that is true in some quarters, but the reason we have government is to see that things, such as the wealth, do not all wind up in a small sector. That will eventually lead to a hot revolution. No hot Revolution has produced a better government so we are screwed unless enough people realize it is up to government to get into the middle of the inequality before that happens.
I'm sick of hearing all the far right wing bullcrap and have no faith in the left since neither side has a clue how to govern. In a nutshell, governance has to be good for everyone. Got it?
Ol' Doc: the one consistent factor in the 'rich got richer' meme that seems to be overlooked, if the economy collapses how well are the rich going to be? So, it is in the interest of the 'rich' to destroy the very group that made them rich? In a consumer society, if there are no products sold then businesses go bancrupt. Now, if by rich you are referring to the bankers like Goldman Sachs and others of that ilk, then yes, condemn them to hell because their shortsighted greed is indeed harming the economy and they hedge their bets either way so if they create a collapse then they profit from that.
As to government getting in and solving problems? When government intruded into business like they did with the mortgage industry, they create a monopoly. That kills enterprise because nobody can compete in a business that is subsidised by the government and government is corrupt ( just read recent news about taxpayer money wasted in Vegas for a taste) The naivete of believing that government is going to be fair, level the playing field is astonishing. Obama has given billions to campaign bundlers, Solyndra got half a billion taxpayer dollars and declared bancruptcy. Many green companies that got the gov. money are now bancrupt. Then you have the government telling business that they must fire one CEO and hire their gov approved CEO?
Of course look at Amtrack, the Post Office, Freddie/Fannie ( a quango) and a host of other government 'companies' and see how well they're doing.
As to the government forcing me to wear a burka, well, seems both sides of the aisle want to control me. One side wants to ban abortions, the other side wants to force abortion payments on taxpayers. Neither group is altruistic, they both want control and power. If you agree with a party agenda then you demonize the other party but rest assured, we are all in the same boat and the boat is full of holes. Rich people get sick and die, just the same as poor people and democrats want to control what you eat, how you eat it and where you can eat it. Neither party is in it for anyone or anything other than power and control.
Obama is calling Ryan's budget a Trojan Horse? Is he kidding? That title belongs to the Obamacare fiasco that hopefully soon will be wiped off the map. Another "green" receipant of lots of tax payer dollars is fixing to go broke! Why does he not try to explain that one? The claims that Republicans want to take money from old people is pure bull. I am one of those that would be effected if it were true but it is not. Ryan would protect those of us that are currently dependent on Social Security and Medicare but change it for those not near retirement to preserve the program for them and our kids. What takes money from Old folks like me? OBAMACARE taking $500 million and Obama's proposed budget that got shot down would have taken another $500 million. Who does he think he is talking to. Some of us went to school when math was really taught. Even his previous supporters say "Fool me once shame on you, Fool me twice, shame on me". That's the truth!
Just maybe Obama should try submitting a budget that can garner at least one vote. Of the two he's submitted neither got any support from either the Democrats or the Republicans. Since he is totally unable to lead perhaps he should either resign or put on a hoodie and take a walk in George Zimmermans neighborhood.
Funny how Cheryl blames Democrats for jobs going overseas when it's the Republicans who once again just blocked bill to remove tax breaks for companies sending jobs overseas and to give tax breaks for companies who bring back or keep jobs in America. Ignorant of facts or just lying, either way........WRONG!
Best Buy shutting jobs down....yep, middle class and poor make less and less while the rich get richer. OK millionaires, buy up all those tv's and computors and stock so Best Buy employees can keep their jobs. C'mon republicans start buying, let's see that trickle down effect you have been talking about now that you have all the money from your republican tax breaks! No trickle down? hmmmmm but you said.......
Right, it's really TRICKLE ON THE MIDDLE CLASS AND POOR!
Ol Doc
I seriously doubt that you are a doctor. For one thing any doctor I have talked to knows that the current whoo ha about the contraceptive debate knows it is not an attack on women but an Obama attack on religious freedom. It is not the case but let me tell you one thing Ol boy, if I had to chose between turning my health care over to fundamentalist religious people or OBama and his death panel, there would be no choice, fundamentalists would win hands down. They actually care about people not just about power and destroying the Constitution.
Pippo, finally a comment that makes sense. Both parties are to blame for the mess we are in. It all started with Johnson, when he started writing IOUs and taking money from Social Security. Ever since then, we have been on a downward spiral. What amazes me, some of those windbags in Washington were a party to that and have been a party to everything that has happened since. We have such a dysfunctional, corrupt, and worthless Congress that I'm sure the forefathers are rolling over in their graves. Until we get people elected who will not by off on the corruption that has bought Washington, nothing will change. Until we have a Congress that is more concerned about what's best for the whole of this nation, nothing will change. Until we have a Congress that will quit lying and saying whatever they have to, to those who are so wrapped up in their party (which is the first group of selfish and greedy pieces of $hit, that has anything to do with politics) only to turn around and do the opposite once they are elected, nothing will change. How is it that people can actually stand by and accuse others for their points of view when books can be written about how wrong the Republican and Democratic Parties are and the damage they have done for this nation? Then these same politicians that lie right to our faces can manage to get elected. Screw them, screw big corporations, and screw the rich!!We now have more than 50% of this nation making less than $30,000 per year with declining wealth while the wealth of the 1% has gone up almost 300%. HELLO, the money had to come from somewhere! Big Corporations are hiding money overseas to avoid paying taxes, doesn't that tell you about the leadership there and the interest they have in getting their guy, not yours, in office. Right now GE, Goggle, Apple and several others are trying to screw America out of over $300 billion in taxes by bringing money back to the states. Screw you GE, Apple, Google and all the rest, If I find out who you are I WILL BOYCOTT YOUR COMPANY and do what I can to see you go bankrupt! How can anyone justify a single man making $148 million dollars in one year, yes folks $48,000 per hour (remember I already told you more than 50% of the American workers make less than $30,000 per year; or that corporate executives are making 2,000 times what their employees are making. YES FOLKS, WE ARE SCREWED, unless something is done this year!! VOTE THEM ALL OUT!!!
Tom - Plymouth
One huge glaring difference between the plan passed by Mass. and signed by Romney and the plan shoved down America's throat by Obama and henchmen: The state has the authority under the Constitution to do that sort of thing. The Federal Government does not. The Federal Government is limited in power by the Constitution for a reason. The power in this country from day one was to be held by the people and the states in representing them. Obama claims to have taught Constitutional Law. Glad he didn't teach the class I took because he either wants the Constitution destroyed or does not have a clue what is in it. Think of it this way. The state does something you don't like, it is a heck a lot easier to move to another state than it would be to move to another country if the Constitution didn't keep a dictatorship from forming here.
Ryan's budget is a complete crock. How the hell could more tax cuts for the wealthy and spending cuts to federal programs for the middle and lower classes be good for the economy??? How the hell could spending cuts in underfunded areas that need reform like education and job training and privatizing Medicare help our economy??? This is an elitist bill stuffed with red meat and anti-middle class provisions. The name "The Path to Prosperity" is an oxymoron. Obama said it well when he stated that economic growth comes not from success from the upper class, but from the sweat of a working man's brow, and the hard work of a middle class worker. If the federal government makes huge spending taxes without tax increases, EVERYONE will pay higher taxes thanks to states losing aid and forcing to fill in the vacuum caused by this massive retreat from centralized government. This plan will destroy our economy and turn us into an plutocracy. I'll gladly debate anyone who thinks that this stupid excuse for a bill is even remotely good.
And to those who wonder what I would like done to fix our economy and deficits, here is my response:
I. Reduce the debt by $8 trillion over 10 years.
I am not joking. Check (http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=vie… Just removing 90% of our tax code's loopholes and tax expenditures would save $947 billion a year. Maybe we ought to do that and simply reform entitlements and we'd have practically no debt by the mid-to-late 2020s.
II. Economic Recovery Package
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
CLASS WARFARE MY ASS
TO HELL WITH TRICKLE-DOWN ECONOMICS 2012
We know Bozobama is simply a spend, spend, spend, then tax, tax, tax kind of fool, and one that'ss gone far past his day of extreme left-wing nutcase spending. Vote accordingly in November and send the fool back to Chicago.
Well, being a tax and spend fool is much better than being a borrow and spend conservative.
He needs to realize that the lack of action by the GOP has created a better economical environment that has many benafits. The consumer confidence is at its highest point since 1996 and the economy is growing better then expected. The Job market is improving and that is all good for the united states. Let them keep bringing up right wing fanatic plans because its not doing them any good, they have enough to worry about with the threats from the tea baggers in thier districts.
Wow, what a great copy and paste!
Gas prices at $4 a gallon, and the economy is "growing" so well that Best Buy is shutting down hundreds of their stores.
Something over 45 MILLION Americans are unemployed, underemployed, or have just given up looking for a job at all.
The housing market STILL hasn't bottomed out in many places and there are millions that will be foreclosed on this year.
Tens of thousands of jobs STILL being "outsourced" overseas because we now OFFICIALLY have the highest corporate tax in the WORLD.
And as for the "right wing fanatic plan" you speak of, it's actually called a BUDGET for the government. You know, something that the Democrats have done in almost THREE YEARS now. I guess to the liberals actually having a BUDGET is un-American since they get everything "free" anyway, right? But to most people it's pretty important.
Yeah, tell us how great it is.
Thank you fox new and Gas is 3.60 I filled up 1 1/2 hrs ago. 25 months of straight privated sector Job Growth, the housing market posted positive results. The DOW, Nasdex and S&P has hit records highs and you do not want to see anything positive because you are still riding around with a Mccain/Palin2008 sticker. Scatch it off and move on. Things ARE getting better!!
Uhm.. who actually is lackin "action" here? OBAMA. The GOP actually DID SOMETHING THAT HE HAS FAILED TO DO FOR OVER THREE YEARS. Are you that blinded by celebrity that you can't see the truth? How is passing a budget "fanatical"? This country is in so deep ($6T of Obama debt alone) which is WHY conservatives are concerned.
BTW he has spent that $6T in 3 years, remind me again how much Bush spent on 2 wars in 7 years? OH THAT'S RIGHT just over $800B... and you liberal loons want to blame Bush for every problem under the sun but turn a blind eye to what Obama is doing because blaming Bush fits YOUR narrative even when it's untrue.
@pissed- in my neck of the woods gas is 3.78 and higher thank you very much. The national average is over 3.70 a gallon.... funny when Bush left office the national average was 1.78... gonna blame Bush for the price of gas right now? Probably haven't even heard Obama's own words about the price of energy under his plans have you?
Then Senator Barak Hussien Obama speaking on energy policies... "under my policies the price of energy will necassarily skyrocket..."
Thank you for harming my bottom line, I work on the road meaning I have to drive sometimes a 1000 miles or more at a time to get to a job site. Can you imagine how gas prices have affected me?
Cheryl,
The President has no control over gas prices.
Blame the CEO of Best Buy, bad decisions by him trying to expand too fast.
The failed policies of the GOP has more to do with the 45 million unemployed.
Blame the GOP for de regulating the Glass/Segal Act, which led up to the housing crash.
Obama has SUBMITTED a BUDGET every year, and when it reaches the Senate, Senator DeMint puts a hold on it so it can't be voted on.
The only thing I have gotten free is the rants like your's, it's free comedy.
So yes, tell us how much worse it could be.
"Ryan is a worm suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder"
Tea baggers are in force today!! He s not perfect but he is getting things done and the American people have confidence is his ability . That is proven by the Polls and the fact that the GOP is really screwed up right now (birth control, abortion again, ect). If he spent 6 trillion the other 9 trillion was already there duh ! Even coming in during the economical collapse that bush helped usher in he still had a higher growth in the Job market then the previous President. President Bush came into office with a surplus that is a fact he left office during an economical collapse, What happen? President Obama did what he had to do and the economy is getting better because of it. No matter what I say you are still going to be angry at President Obama so whats the point .
GM- #1
DOW, NAsdex and S&P - way up lol
Job and Housing market- Getting a lot better dont be mad
Osama-Dead
78 of top 100 terrorist - dead
Cheer up and good luck in 2016.
SallyAnn, you naive poor thing.
The president thru his actions can affect the price of gas. The fact that he has placed restrictions on oil production domestically are proof of this. YES oil production is up, ON PRIVATE lands and way down on federal lands sweetheart. He could also tell the EPA to back off just a tad and allow refineries to do what they were designed to do, refine oil into gas and other products. He could also HELP build new refineries.
Funny thing about how oil companies are treated by Obama, sueing and fining over the Migratory Bird act for every single bird death... the dozens and dozens by oil companies... then seeing the TENS OF THOUSANDS of birds killed by wind generator farms, and NOT ONE PROSECUTION OR FINE... wonderful double standard don't you think?
How about the regulatory environment they are having to deal with? Obamacare is also hurting companies like Best Buy. Oh if the economy is doing so well (meaning people having a large amount of discretionary spending, which they don't have) then I promise you Best Buy would be doing just fine. People are saving money, spending on staples and necassary items, not toys. HELLO.
LOL, still blaming the GOP after 3 years of Obama. hahahahahaha. Talk about humorous. BTW go back and look at employment statistics and NOTICE ONE THING, unemployment numbers ONLY grew when the Democrats took control of both houses of Congress. The statistics don't lie.
Submitted budgets designed specifically NOT TO PASS and were not serious attempts at a budget a all. Hell even the Dems were shaking their heads and voted against it, 414-0. BTW Senator Jim DeMint (R) does not control what happens in the Senate, Harry Reid (D) does and has since 07'... SO WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
So IF you want to be condescending to people, you might wanna at least have your facts straight LOL.
GM #1? Really? LOL. I work in the automotive industry my friend, perhaps you should do some actual research and not listen to what your messiah and his minions tell you. How is the Volt doing my friend? hahahaha!
The markets are doing well... how is the manufacturing sector doing? LOL whatamarooon!
Housing market getting better? Are you trying to be funny, I just read an article in the NYTimes that said that foreclosures are going to be higher in 2012! HELLO is that getting better?
Bin Laden dead based on the groundwork done by others INCLUDING BUSH, what I heard was Obama taking all the credit and giving NONE. Yeah that's a leader.
Yeah, at least one was and American citizen who according to the Constitution had rights regardless of his traitorous actions. His life was taken on orders from YOUR president, he was not afforded due process which is by all reasonble expectations is unconstitutional!
Get your head out of your hind end.
Its sad that there are so many people that wants this country to fail. I dont blame bush but mistakes were made and we need to fix it. Things had to be done to save this country and President Obama did it because America over whelmingly voted him into office to fix it so please just deal with it. Yes President Obama has put us 6 trillion in debt but the other 9 trillion was the results of the last presidents policies so again just deal with it. With all the problems that america has right now all we hear from the GOP is abortion and birth control so what you need to do is contact you congressman and let him know your issues. I have 6 family members in Dayton Ohio that has moved 4 other family members there to work so please dont lie. lolololol Good luck in 2016.
Matthew call your mom and ask for a hug because you need it.
Matthew, please stop with giving Bush the credit for any part in getting bin Laden. Bush didn't give a crap about bin Laden a year after 9/11, and said it enough times. He had 7 years and failed, Obama made it a priority and made the tough call on the mission. There is really nothing to give Bush credit for AT ALL. Oh, and we all know the REAL credit goes to the soldiers who did it, and Obama gives them the credit too.
No, we can credit Bush for deregulating wall street causing it to fall apart, invading the wrong county, trashing housing, spending an estimated 5 trillion on 2 wars and the ever present cost of veteran benefits for those injured. He gets that credit.
Jon, you need to take a look at your source on the money for the wars. The actual figure is an estimated 800M$ where exactly are you getting the $5T number? Stop lying.
Who trashed housing again? Bush did? You sure about that? I can actually trace it back to Carter, ending up with Bawney Fwank and Chris Dodd... Your sources again please.
Invading the wrong country huh? We were attacked by a TERRORIST ORGANIZATION not a country. What we do know is that ALONG WITH OTHERS Al Queda was financially and logistically suppoted by Iraq. You sure your sources are telling the truth? I'm pretty sure you are being sold a bil of goods which is ideologically biased by your sources.
@lib,
Who put the policies in place that got the information that led to Bin Ladens death again? Sure as hell wasn't Obama, in fact he did his best to get in the way of gaining information by attempting to prosecute those who were getting the 411. As for the 7 year thing, yeah you're correct he didn't get it done. Saying he doesn't deserve some credit for implementing the policies Obama fought against is incorrect (have you been taking your cues from NBC?)
@pissed LOL, you think GWB put $9T dollars of debt on this country? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
THANKYOU FOR THE FUNNIEST POST EVER! Perhaps you should go look at the national deficate when Bush took ofice, when he left office, and NOW. Again your sources are a joke.
800 B$ sorry typo. either way less than 3 items the president has pushed.
Bush's policies DID cause a huge part of the current debt.
http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/320-80/6089-thank-george-w--again
Matthew
You might need to sue you cable companie because the only channel you get is fox and You sound like you were emailed the GOP talking points. Well there is really nothing you will listen to so have a good day and tell Fox and Friends I said Hi. lolololol
@ Matthew: Do you understand why gas was less than $2 a gallon when Bush left office? BECAUSE THE ECONOMY CRASHED. I notice none of you apologists seem to remember when gas was over $4 under Bush in 2008...
Matthew, most of your points are outright lies or exaggerations. And you propagate the birther lie as well. You are arguing from a platform based on sand and the tide is coming in.
@Matthew-1659546
Just an FYI, according to the washington post, in 2007, the war was costing 720 million a day. 280 million of that was budgeted for the war, the rest was incurred expenses, meaning, borrowed money.
As of today, 802 billion has been spent on the war JUST IN IRAQ. Add 455 billion on the war in Afganastan over the same time period. Infopleasecom has a good graph on the basic costs of each. it also shows the costs per year from 9/11 attacks. 2009 142 billion was pent and then cut drastically when it was Obama and a democrat controlled house and senate down to 95 billion plus 59 billion for afganastan.
Going by an article written by the daily beast, as of october 2010, the war was costing 3billion a week between DOD spending on the war and flat military costs. They also estimate that the war will cost the US alone, more than 6-7 trillion. They also state that Bush underestimated the cost of the war and on top of that and the reduced income from the tax cuts, caused a good deal of the issues we have now making a balanced budget.
So now I ask you, what sources are you using for your 800billion claim?
Pissed----Why do you go after Fox News. Is it because they have a larger audience than all other news channels combined. Is it because they speak the truth that you dont want to hear. Why is it that NBC is doing an internal investigation on why the Treyvon 911 tapes were doctored to make it sound like Zimmerman was racially profiling when all he was doing was answering what the operator asked. Why is it that Olberman is no longer on, or that ED got tossed off the air. HMMMMM So can you please give me some example why you go after fox and not msnbc. Tell me the lies you speak of. Or is it just that you cant handle the truth?
Berenerd---Here is one source if you want but I am sure I can find more.
These are the true deficits: Bush $800B, Obama $1.4T
Just copy and paste to google bar for the article. Be careful now, it takes some reading.
Typical non-response, when all else fails, blame Bush. Now, fact, Bush was excoriated for not 'doing something' when prices went up, Obama gets a pass. Obama was the one who gave billions to Brazil for underwater oil exploration while placing a moratorium on American companies and prohibiting them from doing the same thing. So, your hero is giving away masses of money to a foreign country at the expense of American companies. No mention of that in your little diatribes.
Those of you ill-informed want to blame Bush for the housing crisis and the financial crisis need to quit parroting your script and do some research. The president who was the final author for the financial collapse was Clinton and before him Carter. The Community Reinvestment Act and ACORN and HUD were key players in the housing collapse, as was Barney Franks and Dodd (authors of the new, improved and real shiny Dodd-Franks debacle) Those facts get in the way of your script? Facts, how annoying. We must push an agenda and facts, well, we don't need no stinking facts, we have our talking points and that's all that matters.
Back to the subject .... THE BUDGET ! When will Obama and/or the Democrat-led Senate offer ANY kind of realistic budget proposal ???? Obama is in his fourth year. Last year's offering from him was voted down 97 to 0 ! This year's proposal is not even being brought up for consideration.
WHERE IS THE DEMOCRATIC BUDGET PROPOSAL ??? HAS ANYONE SEEN IT ?? ANYONE AT ALL ?
And Fox listeners are smart. lololololololol Sure Fox is the greatest lolololololol Sure I cant handle any truth lololololololololololol
Fox News viewers are the most misinformed on topics such as global warming, health care, health care a second time, the Ground Zero mosque, the Iraq war, and the 2010 election.
That is why you dont know S&^%!!! Everyone know this except FOx viewers lololololo
David you might want to google you ratings statement because Fox has lied to you again about ratings and viewership lolololololol Why did I know Fox lied to you lolololololol
David, the first lie that comes to mind is when Fox swapped the numbers on the polls regarding support for the teachers in Wisconsin. The polls showed that 60% of the people backed the teachers keeping their collective bargaining rights. Fox switched the numbers to show that 40% backed the teachers. that's just one.
Do you know why there is no Fox News Canada? Because the Canadians have a law that says you cannot broadcast information you know to be false and call yourself a news station. Fox lies, that's why there is no Fox News Canada.
It is MSDNC that lies, they were caught in a big one just yesterday.
CherylLM -
I know you are in Tea Bag Haven, but yep - $4 Gas, 45 Million Un/Under Employed, Housing Market is down, the 45% corporate tax rate is a lie, 90% of the Fortune 500 pay an effective tax rate close to 5%. Exxon got a check from the government = 500 Million tax payers dollars alone.
But guess what President Obama did not create this mess, can you guess who did? You got it BUSH period. Remember when Clinton left office we had a surplus. - BUSH gave 1.2 Trillion Dollars to the rich, 2 unfunded wars, Medicare part D, Terrorist Attach, Homeland Security - Do you remember all of that CherylLM? My guess is No you don't - The only thing you remember is President Obama getting elected then realizing we had all these problems while asking who's in charge now. Blame him.
If we take your starve the beast approach - would your grandmother get the medical attention she needs? This question would be directly affected by your party being in charge. Medicare as we know it would no be in the United States of America. You would not have Social Security because your party said so so don't expect it. As a matter of fact. Do drive the highways, go to the ER, ask for help in a time of need? If you do STOP it NOW you are costing us money and don't have your grand children ask for student loans because there would be none. Again this is from your beloved party the Sh!t Bag GOP.
So your point is don't help the unemployed, sick, Help people get a college education assistance, stop public education, Science research, FBI, roads repairs, social security and on and on. Because that is what your party will do if in charge. Guess what? our debt would still grow. How would they pay for a 4.5 trillion dollar tax cut to the rich? Your party won't tell anyone what programs they will cut until they are elected. With your plan some how it will fix gas prices, unemployment, company shipping jobs overseas and speaking of shipping jobs overseas Bush gave corporations tax credit for doing it. Continuing your plan would make everything better especially the rich.
Why would you want to stop helping the poor? Stop college assistance to those who need it most. Stop Medicare. Stop Social Security. Stop medical Research. Stop everything the government current do except give tax cuts to the rich and give more to the military after the wars have ended.
What you are saying does not make no since at all. Continue to watch FIX NOISE I think that can give you a college Degree in Bull Sh1T if you watch 8 hours of it a day.
How many Goverments are investigating MSNBC for unethical practices? lolololololololololololololol Their leader have not quit or voted out by the stock holders yet! lolololololol When MSNBC get caught hacking into people voicemail let me know lolololololol
Pissed off, didn't MSNBC just get caught changing the 911 calls in the Trayvon Martin case?
I just glanced at all of your posting, not once did you actually add anything, you just ripped on others for their opinions.
Liberal tolerance in full force today.
Fyi - quite of few of us are sick of both sides spending and lots of us don't watch or need fox news for our information.
Dam, well they should get rid of ABC, NBC, CNN and everyone else. They all lie. I do not know that Fox lies any more than the other stations. I have heard that a couple of news channels are in some hot water about editing some 911 recordings.
Matthew , thanks you saved me a lot of typing... Carry on!
Golly solutions539..
you must have missed the memo from obama on "hope and change". It's a real wonder that obama wasn't concerned about the economy when he was the junior US senator from illinois. Just another starry eyed newbie to national politics, right? At least we all know now that on the job training across the board is not conducive to being POTUS.
Well, you must understand that the arsenal of the Obama supporters is rather limited. If you don't like Obama's policies you are 1. a racist 2. unaware that it is all Bush's fault 3. a Fox News watcher. After that it degenerates into insults, name calling and teaparty, rethuglican, moron, etc.
Pissed you just listed of topics that fox reports truth on, Global warming= scientist were doctoring their own findings to make global warming look worse and were caught doing it in emails
What about healthcare are you talking about......what is your point where is your source for the lies you claim?
all the other things come from a liberal mindset that if you dont agree with what is said you call people liars.
WHERE IS YOUR PROOF. WHERE ARE YOUR FACTS. You have NONE not one single source, not one. YOU LIE because if something doesn't fit correctly into your little world you have to call people name and write LOLOLOLOOLOL. How mature you jackass. Why not come back to reality for a minute. And to the other guy about canada......really?
Pissedoff, if I was an obama supporter I would be pissed off as well.
BTW - you do understand that when you said this...
It points out to what the right has always wanted to do. Get the government out of the way of business so that business can generate growth. Even so, the right recognizes that some environmental regs are desirable as well, but not all. I found it interesting that the economy is still growing even when congress and the WH are gridlocked. Best proof there is that government only gets in the way.
BTW - long term market growth is not based on political events or even ideology.
This is a story where I live....Home of Obama's illegal Uncle and illegal aunt. uncle Omar was recently popped for DUI, he is an illegal alien, as is his aunt...Uncle Omar plead guilty to the charge, lost his license but got a "hardship" license which allows him to adrive certain hours. So you see even when illegals break the law they still do not get deported and sill get to drive... as far as his aunt...she is doing fine in a housing project getting free rent, food stamps, and just about anything else she can get her hands on...what a country...now go to work, shut your mouth, and pay your taxes!
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/04/03/obamas-uncle-gets-massachusetts-drivers-license-back-after-drunk-driving-arrest/">
Well our President is the one who is suppose to be against deficit spending, at least that is what he said when he was running office. Yet so far his administration has been running up record deficits and is predicting more of the same for at least another decade.
I want to see the big picture. I want to understand how the President is going to keep his promise to the American people regarding federal deficit spending. The senate needs to pass a budget for 2012 that keeps the President's promise. 2013 is next year's budget. We need to fix this year's budget first.
When running for office Obama said that deficit spending was bad and he vowed to cut the deficit in half by the end of his first term. To do that the 2012 federal deficit must not exceed 229.27 billion dollars and both Obama's own White House and the CBO are predicting that is not going to happen. The White House is predicting a 2012 federal deficit of 1.33 trillion dollars. I estimate that the 2012 federal deficit alone will end up costing the tax payers more than 10 trillion dollars to repay it in 170 years. The White House is predicting huge deficits for at least another decade. And the President said that he was against deficit spending. How can anyone trust him? Even though the President's promise was not contingent on any action of congress I think that the President really needs the help of congress. We all need to get behind the President to see that his promise is kept. Rather than worry about next year's budget, the President needs to explain to the American people how he is going to keep his promise that the 2012 federal deficit will not exceed 229.27 billion dollars. The President next needs to explain how the federal government is going to pay back the more than 15 trillion dollars that it owes, how long is it going to take, and how much is it going to end up costing the tax payers.
The President needs to be reminded of some words of wisdom that were spoken back in March of 2006. The words were as true then as they are today.
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, "the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."
~ Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006
So Obama has declared that on a clear day the sky is blue unless you live in many of the major metropolis's where it is more of a brownish hue. So I was wondering if any of you conservatives could let us poor uninformed liberals know what color it really is. We anxiously await your paranoid interjection.
Wow! 3 is all you got mygirl1?
Here, I'll make a list for ya.
Failed policies of the Bush administration reinacted by the Ryan plan.
Attack on women's rights, like raping with foreign objects.
More tax breaks for the wealthy.
Repeal and Replace... with nothing.
Attack Iran and North Korea
Privatize medicare
Austrisize Russia
Remove the child labor laws
Deregulate business
Disband Unions
Illegalize birth control
Illegalize abortions and put them back in the alleys
Remove the seperation of Church and State
All in the name of solving the deficit by 2040
Fascism will come to town carrying a flag in one hand and a bible in the other.
@Matthew-1659546
Sorry, YOU need to stop listening to morons who spout opinion instead of fact. Fact#1 we are EXPORTING more fuel from the U.S. than we are using, fact#2 there is MORE domestic drilling/oil production currently than under Bush, fact#3 almost all of our oil refineries are running at 100% capacity. Sorry, the price of gasoline has NOTHING to do wit the president and EVERYTHING to do with speculation in the "free market" casino know as wall street. If you would get your head strapped on straight you might realize that this has absolutely nothing at all to do with the person currently, (or previously for that matter), in the white house and everything to do with corporate influence in politics. Our government is of the corporations BY the corporations and the actual PEOPLE of this country mean squat. The reason we are told that social programs are for no good leaches is that it cut back on what we can be forced to hand over to the corporations currently looting our treasury. This is NOT a left/right thing, it's not a liberal/conservative thing and it certainly isn't a christian/non-christian thing. It is simply the governing against the non-governing and if we don't stop fighting each other it won't make a damn bit of difference who is inn the white house. We will continue to decline as a nation because there is really only one party and all the politicking is smoke and mirrors designed to keep us squabbling while they laugh all the way to the bank. Think about it, it an economy where there are 45 million unemployed why is Congress getting a pay raise? Why if free government health care is so bad do ALL the Congress people get it? Why if being a Christian is SOOO important do the vast majority of our politicians exhibit so many un-christian qualities? Why if family values is so important is HATE the biggest rallying emotion towards anyone who doesn't agree with a particular point of view? Sorry, that is the plain truth and the sooner we start seeing it, the sooner we can get rid of ALL these losers on BOTH sides and take back OUR country!
Matthew 1659546
You are the ONLY one here who knows what they are talking about! The rest of these liberal 'live your life by emotions only' crowd don't know how to take the facts and form a intelligent opinion based on the TRUTH. Because that would be hard work. To actually have to think and not base everything on pure emotion.
Lets see, We can vote for a Party that sank the United States into a Recession ( Republican Party ) or we can vote for President Obama that has taken us out of the Abyss and is growing our economy without ANY help from the GOP. Sounds pretty easy
Obama/Biden 2012
What's your specific detailed plan Barry? That's right, you don't have one. Kick the can down the road until November 7.
Harry Reid and Co. have not passed a budget for nearly 3 YEARS!!!!!!!
Democrats have no plan. Kick the can. Hide under the desk.
And they have the audacity to attack the only guy in DC with the cojones to present a plan.
A VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS IS A VOTE FOR IGNORANCE AND PROCRASTINATION!!
ROMNEY/ HALEY 2012!!!!!!
Am I seeing things , but I believe everytime this president lies his ears grow, pretty soon he will be able to fly without a plane. I said it before and I will keep repeating it , anyone that votes for Mr. O is just dumber than dirt , but there seems to be a lot of dumb crackers as it was proven in 08, especially in the northeast , midwest and california which is only second to dumbas... crackers behind NY.
What is this monkey hitting on? His failures are evident throughout the Numbama times. Go away you jerk!
It's not surprising that Obama was able to criticize the GOP (re"pig"licans and "con"servatives) budget because they are ignorant, stupid, moronic, evil, deceitful, manipulative, condescending, biased, prejudice, racist, sexist, homophobes, et cetera. I can sum up their budget in just a few points: less taxes for the rich and large corporations and less assistance to the needy. I guess that is about it. Re"pig"licans are vile and disgusting and should not be allowed to live in this country. They are hypocrites and liars. They deserve to have their own community (all of them) in the south pole. Please, please, please leave this wonderful and amazing country.
Tell me, after 30 years of "getting government out of the way," how are we any better off??? 30 years ago the top 1% owned about 18% of income in America; now they control over 42%. Had we avoided erroneous tax cuts and wasteful spending brought on by Reagan and then Bush Jr, we would have public debt at 30% of the economy instead of 76%. Had we steered clear of deregulation, we WOULD NOT have had the housing and financial markets collapse. Tell me, how has this "government is always the problem" mentality helped us??? Seems like it only helped the core of the GOP, Big Business and the wealthy, while leaving the rest of us in the dust.
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
Now if we can cut Defense and foreign spending just as much, we just might have a @!$%#ing compromise here folks!!
Word among liberals is that the House Democrats considered Obama's budget "fiscally insane" and that is why it failed in the House 0-414.
Mr Obama must feel good he is 0-2 with his own party on his budget proposals the past 2 years
Hey, you guys might have missed this, since the fake liberals are so unable to defend the failure Obama, thier only recourse is to try and collapse the truth.
Anyways, while Obama complains about the GOP budget, he has only ever submitted 2... one failed in the senate 97-0, the other failed in the house 414-0.
Hahahahahahaha! Not even ONE DEMOCRAT will vote for his crazy spending!
And for all you ignoramus's, the budget CANNOT BE FILIBUSTERED!
Seriously though, our great country is in peril, dude to the out of control spending. Here's a report John cited in the first thread, discussing the current economic policy (That's Obama, just so you know, not Bush, who hasn't had a thing to do with the budget since 2008).
And a quote from the report:
"Director Elmendorf has stated that "there is no plausible economic outcome under which [this policy path] would lead to a sustainable budget."
http://www.bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/2012/02/twelve-takeaways-cbo%E2%80%99s-2012-budget-and-economic-outlook
The reason the GOP are against Birth Control is there would be less slaves to do the work and pay the Taxes that the RICH seems to slide around, because really when ever the tax revenues are less then what is needed for a working government the RICH then are panicked because they know NO more free lunch .....
It is truly amazing how many people try to sound like they know what they are talking about when it is very clear the only ones they're fooling is themselves. I'm talking about the die-hard republican voters. They worship the republican party, and Fox news is the most credible news show anywhere. It does not matter to them that the republican party is telling them what they are going to do to them. All the republicans have to do is make up a fancy name, then have Fox news explain it to them, coming from Fox News it must be the truth. The majority of die-hard republican voters and the Tea Party members are poor and middle class, and nobody will ever convince them that they are the ones that use and need the programs republicans want to cut or end so they can pay for the trillions in new tax cuts for the rich. Fox News told them, republicans are trying to reduce the size of government. Republicans want to stick long shiny objects inside women bodies, Fox News called it, religious freedom, your guess is as good as mine how that has anything to do with religion. I have to wonder, are they really that closed-minded, or do they just hate President Obama so much that they want him gone so badly that they are willing to let republicans do unimaginable things to themselves and everybody else just as long as President Obama loses his re-election bid.
No, if we could cut defense spending AND raise taxes, we just might have a @!$%#ing compromise here folks!!
My, my and the post collapsers are out in force. Love the lists of the Great One's major accomplishment(s).
Bossilimo, you sound like a left-wing conspiracy theorist. Interesting accusations, now, perhaps some proof to back up all those 'interesting' assertions. I am especially interested in where and when Bush attacked North Korea. You left out drinking babies' blood and starting intergalatic warfare, but I know you will get to those when they occur to you.
Sez me u whacko and Zen Love, where have you people been the last 3 plus yrs? Why do you give tax breaks to the wealthy and companies, because they are the ones that produce jobs you morons. Obama has done absolutely nothing since he's been in office except take more vacations than an president since Roosevelt. We even paid for a 13 yr. old to go on spring break to mexico-- 25 secret service, suv's, had to be flown in, hotels, food and a price tag of over 3 million tax payer dollars. Could had fed quite few kids in this country that go to bed hungry every night but you left wing liberals, have chills up your leg like chris matthews said back in 2009, jan.[The Annointed one] give me a break.
WHY does Obama always have to characterize everything as "RIGHT" OR "LEFT"? That is EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH HIM.
He has POLITICIZED the White House, our country and EVERY ASPECT OF OUR NATIONAL DIALOGUE!!
He is permanently dividing the country (along lines that I don't even understand how/why they were drawn for me!) creating a lack of civility and courteous exchange of ideas that is required to more our Nation forward!!!
Almost no issue is simply "Right" or "Left". He continues characterizing things this way for the sole purpose of dividing people even more in an election year when what is needed is UNIFICATION and PULLING TOGETHER FOR COMMON GOALS.
I simply CANNOT STAND TO LISTEN TO HIM ANYMORE. The "Divider in Chief" name fits him well.
Obama said,
"Ronald Reagan, who as I recall was not accused of being a tax-and-spend socialist, understood repeatedly that when the deficit started to get out of control that for him to make a deal he would have to propose both spending cuts and tax increases ... He did it multiple times. He could not get through a Republican primary today."
Finally, he objects publicly to the moonbats that call him a socialist.
cschilton, where have you been for the last 12 years? The "wealthy" got tax breaks and shipped the jobs overseas. The only thing that creates jobs is demand, not tax breaks to business or the wealthy. You have to get more money into the hands of the middle class.
It's against the rules to call people morons on here BTW.
mygirl1
You listed 3 things liberals had to run on. I listed more.
If you want proof, Google. I'll not link Santorum's gag reflexes or Romney's thrill at firing people. I won't bother listing legislation put forth in Wisconsin for collective bargaining removal or legislation in Virginia wanting to probe women with dildo like objects. The religious right wanting to ban birth control can easily be found as well. Romney's support of the Ryan plan can be found easily, where privitized medicare is the goal, giving grandpa a coupon. The desire to repeal ACA is well known yet you won't find what they're replacing it with anywhere, but you can Google that too. Your candidate is on record threatening attack on Iran and North Korea.
Everything I wrote is on record. Google away. My point is, liberals have a lot to run on. The mere fact that 72% of women are opposed to republican proposals and will not get their votes would be one voter bloc not in your favor.
You, if you are indeed a girl, should feel the same way. Based on your post, I'd say you aren't female, but that's my opinion. A clinical abortion beats a back alley one every time. You want to complain about welfare babies and ban birth control at the same time. Where's the logic there?
Yeah, I wish those were conspiracy theories. Unfortunately, there's too much proof to make it facts. Fortunately, we will have time to catch Romney at his finest, when he debates the president. Meanwhile, we will be chaulking up more ammo, compliments of Etch a Sketch.
About the article -- The president provided numbers for the GOP budget that Ryan fails to provide (and doesn't want to reveal because it is radical right-wing social engineering). Why don't you right-wingers come out of your Cone of Silence (Matthew, et al) and ponder this? Each of you are hereby challenged to research the Paul Ryan plan -- and to do it with real math -- not a string of bumper stickers propaganda, and come back and tell us:
1) In order to cut discretionary spending from 12% of GDP to only 3% of GDP, where will these cuts come from?
2) Specify what loopholes will be closed to increase the tax base? Then tell us what comes first, increasing the tax base versus increasing tax cuts? And in what ratio -- will the tax base be increased at least equal to the tax cuts, or actually bring in more revenue to reduce deficits? (Not)
3) Which tax bracket will enjoy the most tax cuts (we already know it will be those earning 250K or more)?
4) Why does Ryan want to increase defense spending, even more than the generals request?
We know the Paul Ryan plan is a JOB KILLER. It destroys investment in education, research, etc. that is needed to grow the economy and compete in the future. We know that austerity in countries like Greece has caused unemployment to skyrocket even higher.
We also know Romney's plan, which is just as bad if not worse than Paul Ryan's plan, would have to completely end ALL trust fund/entitlement programs in order to balance his budget. We know the clear choice we will have in the coming election.
Obama/Biden - 2012!
Matthew-1659546, David-2425738,
I'm impressed at how good the community is collapsing your diatribe. Got to be some kind of record. I read a blurb or two that you spew, and that's all it is. Reconstituted vomit.
This is the kind of ignorance that starts right-wing conspiracy theories resulting in zero credibility for the right wing (well far Right now). The Emails were later studied by multiple neutral groups. Technical terms were completely misunderstood, there was no "doctoring," and the findings at this particular institution were in keeping with the scientific community at large -- That global warming does exist. And if you still don't believe it, ask the people in the Maldives. Idiots and their children. Please remove the tin foil hats and educate yourself!
ROY WILSON-336103
The election this year will focus on whether we can afford 4 more years of Obama.
Here are the Deficit figures for the last 5 Presidents - with a link to the official government source to verify;
Reagan (1981-1988) = $1.339 Trillion over 8 years, or $167 Billion per year.
Bush 1 (1989-1992) = $933 Billion over 4 years, or $233 Billion per year.
Clinton (1993-2000) = $320 Billion over 8 years, or $40 Billion per year.
Bush 2 (2001-2008) = $2.006 Trillion over 8 years, or $251 Billion per year.
Obama (2009-2012p) = $5.333 Trillion (Proj) over first 4 years, or $1,333 Billion per year. That's $4.6 Trillion more than Bush spent in his first 4 years.
If Obama is reelected, he projects another $5 Trillion of Deficits in the next 4 years, or over $10 Trillion which our children and grandchildren will have as a 'millstone' around their necks for their entire lives. Running up huge debts is a great way to 'pander for votes', but somebody will have to pay it back (our children) - with interest. Here's the official government link - See Table 1.3;
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals
PS – Let's also look at the 'JOBS' picture under Obama;
The total average number of people employed in 2008 (Bush's last year, including losses at the end of 2008) = 136,790,000.
The total average people employed in 2011 (Obama's 3rd year) = 131,359,000 – that's a LOSS under Obama of 5,431,000 net jobs. Here's the Link to official Bureau of Labor Statistics site on
employment to verify - Compare jobs for 2011 vs 2008;
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.ceseeb1.txt
Bill in mill, True Patriot-----once again you can only call people names and spit out what you believe to be true with out any facts of your own. I did not say climate change does not exist, I was pointing out that the scientist involved were not being scientific in their research. See when you are a scientist you take ALL information you obtain to get the full picture of what is going on. You dont just throw out info you dont like. Here is my source for the way I feel on the subject just copy and paste if you dare (assassination science climategate). Bill do you have any proof to back up what you claim is diatribe,and Reconstituted vomit (Very becoming of such a mature person) you may not like what I say but I can back up all of what I say with fact and sources....Can you?
NO you cant so just keep living in Obamaland and may be one day you might just get it, until then if you wish to debate anything at all I dare you to prove me wrong on any fact I put forward, I doubt you have the intelligence or the maturity to actually do it though, look forward to hearing your fact checked findings.
Oh and bill I think it is so cute that you stole Fiesty's avatar....so funny because it describes you and fiesty so well.;-)
David what you call Obamaland I call hard reality, you don't want to hear the truth, you want to bash people over the head verbally when they cite anything but fox news points. As for the slander you are parading as truth you know where you can put it. I'm too polite to say just where.
Paul Ryan is the biggest bully of all in government. I would rather see a government shut down then see the Ryan plan go into effect. The TEA Party in the house only consists of about 79 representatives. The rest of the GOP reps care about reelection. It is time for O'bama to draw a line in the sand and hold his ground. "history will not be kind" to Obama for his "duck and run tactics." ha, history will not be kind to Paul Ryan for his TOTAL disregard for the poor and the middle class he would like to make poor.
I want to end this by quoting the democratic women's protest chant in Virginia which was loud enough to be heard inside the State house while the state senate was in session, "We will remember in November." Let me remind every "conservative" posting here that the poor and the middle class vote too. I predict nothing short of a political blood bath for the GOP unless it shows the TEA Party the door between now and November.
Wade----once again you have no facts. WOW dont dems ever have any actual facts to back up their statements or are those just another one of those evil things that republicans like to do. Wade have you read the Ryan budget or are you just taking talking points from the Pres and MSNBC. We all know how they like to spin the truth..ie Treyvon 911 tapes. Why on earth would Ryan intentionally want to hurt the poor, old, and little children. Why would Ryan like to make the middle class poor and guess what OBAMA has made more middle class people poor in the last four years than any other president before him or is that a fact that you completely missed. The pres and the Dems have not put out a budget in over 1000 days that actually has any merit. The pres actually brought congress together for a unanimous vote of 414-0 against his budget. In fact the last two budgets the pres has put out have not received a single vote.
WADE I have one question....How have the poor and middle class done over the past four years? What specifically has this administration done that has helped out the poor and middle class in this country....I am not talking about handouts but how has this pres actually helped those people get back to where they were before and helped them get back on their feet? The president is pissing on you and telling you its raining and you actually believe him!!!
Ah David I see I struck a nerve, count on me hammer away at particularly egregious posts when I see them.
Let me get this straight . . .
We're going to be "gifted" with a health care
plan we are forced to purchase and
fined if we don't,
Which purportedly covers at least
ten million more people,
without adding a single new doctor,
but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents,
written by a committee whose chairman
says he doesn't understand it,
passed by a Congress that didn't read it but
exempted themselves from it,
and signed by a Dumbo President who smokes,
with funding administered by a treasury chief who
didn't pay his taxes,
for which we'll be taxed for four years before any
benefits take effect,
by a government which has
already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare,
all to be overseen by a surgeon general
who is obese,
and financed by a country that's broke!!!!!
'What the hell could possibly go wrong?
Ryan is a 42 Year Old Puppet for the Koch Bros and the radical arm of the GOP, which, by the way, helped to mastermind the biggets redistributon of wealth in this nation in American History under the Bush regime. He never worked for anyone except his daddy and a couple of GOP congressmen and senators. He was a weinermobile driver for Oscar Meyer, which is his crowning achievement. He has a BA in economics and Political science from Miami of Ohio University. He was a waiter and a fitness trainer. It is a known fact that his mom thought he was going to be a ski bum so she nudged him into politics. His proposed top tax rate is 25%. The last time we had that low of a tax rate, we went into a great depression and the ensuing tax rates went up to as high as 77% and higher. he is a nobody who is not intelligent enough to do anything fiscally responsible and has no track record of anything good. Rid him from the seat.
jmonarchy...PURE STUPIDITY!! BOZO makes Jimmy Carter look like a rocket scientist instead of a peanut brain. YOU just spew BS. But thats what ALL and I mean ALL libeRATS do. Get some "facts" before you open your pie hole. I HATE ABORTION but I am starting to appreciate liberal abortions. Thanks to those we have less of you taking up space in my pocket book.
truly maintaining that arrogant knowitalll ignorant status of a tru texan. Wait, True texans are mexicans, but I digress. Please don't pull rank on me by trying to be a total ignorant loser on here. Everything in my post is a true, factual statement with verifiable sources that are readily available. i know facts seem to clutter the simple minds of GOPers. FO for now. You are obviously a minimum wage earner at the 7-11 as your post shows your level of intelligence. here greenhorn. Check it out for yourself. next time you get a chance to post in response to mine, do yourself a favor and FO. If I wanted your opinion, I'd scrape it off the toilet paper.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Ryan
Too bad your only source of facts is Rush Limbaugh and the KKK.
Show your facts dumba$$ or shut your pie hole and get out of my pocket book! Let me guess...you are on welfare, food stamps, or in gov. sub. housing. What part of my $$ go to you and your ilk? BTW, YOUR party had the grand wizard with sen. Byrd from virginia and idiots like YOU kept re-electing the old KKK guy. Dont throw stones unless you want them back Dumbo!! SHOW YOUR FACTS OR STFU!
You looking for facts or a fax. i can show you but I can't make your brain dead grey matter understand anything. Watch the inflammatory rhetoric @!$%#.
OK, I didnt think you had any. Just spewing BS as ALL and again I mean ALL democRATS do. Have a good day and be sure to get that brown ring washed off from around your neck before you go to the welfare office and collect MY money.
Byrd was from WV. Of course why would i suspect you knew anything at all. I feel you will be shut down and kicked off of the vine in the next 2 hours.
You don't have any money as is the case of most GOPers that feel like taxing the rich is unfair. I make more money in a year than you did during the 8 years your fellow Texans ran us in the ditch. Wanna post Tax returns? Put your 1040 EZ up here.
being a loud mouth and an arrogant pussie is no substitute for intelligence and you can always tell a pussie because they are always arrogant loud mouths with no brains and only enough backbone to show their ass on the web under a cartoon name.
jmonarchy...Byrd was from WV. Of course why would i suspect you knew anything at all. I feel you will be shut down and kicked off of the vine in the next 2 hours.
I know where he was from. I dont hear you arguing against what he was! As for shutting me down... It WONT be for giving facts. If people should be taken down it should be for spewing BS as you do. AGAIN...AGAIN... Stop SPEWING and SHOW some FACTS instead of BS!! And MINE will NOT be a 1040 EZ as yours would be. And speaking of a cartoon name...monarchy fits you. BUT so does idiot! Just sayin.
You stated in your earlier post Byrd was from Virginia. He also had a more black support than any of your GOP candidates after he openly apologized for the association with the Klan.
You finally stated something that was factual and accurate; as for shutting me down...it won't be for giving facts. You are absolutely correct there compadre, I doubt anyone has ever accused you of giving any facts.
Being 6'3 and 235, there is always some mealy-mouth sawed off fart that wants to challenge you in a bar, knowing full well he would get his arse handed to him. A simple man would wipe up the spilled drinks and broken glass with this little foreskin of a man, but I always end up having to take the high road, which I will do in this case and just block your ignorance.
AS USUAL..."NO FACTS"!!!!! JUST MORE BS. You are probably 4ft. 11in. with the little man iissues. HAHAHA
NO FACTS NO FACTS NO FACTS!!! SPEW SPEW SPEW!!! Stop collecting MY MONEY!! GET A JOB!! OH wait BOZO hasnt created any! Dont worry I wont take ANY of your comments as a threat as you couldnt threaten me in ANY WAY!
I guess I hurt little mans feelings. SOOO SOOO sorry little guy! HAHAHAHA
He should change his tag to "nofactsjmonarchy". Its just so hard for the libs to give facts and not spew the garbage that everyone allows them to get away with and then they get their little feelings hurt and take their marbles and go home. WELL, dont go away mad...just go away!
Perhaps Jmonarchy had the sense to put a close minded loud mouthed bully like yourself on ignore like I just did TrueBigot, oops sowwy, I meant TrueTexan, talk about a nickname being a misnomer.
YES it sounds like you "wade" in the bs also. LIBBIGGOT, you both should change your tags to LIBBIGGOT1 AND libbiggot2.
All I have to say is if you libs get nasty and then want to cry about someone giving it back to you then go find a play ground or stop being nasty. It seems like all you want is to be the ones to dish it out and cry, cry, cry when you get just a little of it back. Get out the hanky and blow your nose and grow up. Want nice...play nice.
truetexan, you're suspended for a week for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
all of you Obama hiney kissers is your gas cheaper than it was 3 years ago, is your food cheaper , your utilites , are you now unemployed , did you vote for Obama , justice served.
Write I am a BIGOT, wayne, 1000 times. Then stand in the corner for insulting every liberal and moderate poster here. It is insufficient to disagree with us. You have to belittle and insult us too. If I could I would reach through the screen, it's a good thing I cannot or don't know where you are.
SMDH. We all get a bit pissed from debating once in a while and I have been suspended for getting over zealous by Tyler, but to be a rude, obnoxious troll trying to start a fight and trying to talk around the facts just to name call means you should go away for good. I can list several screen names that have been the same person that gets kicked off for good, starts up another email at yahoo and a new screen name and starts the BS all over again.
I think I might be in Love with MyGirl.
Wait, did I type that or just think it?
Lols.
Naw, but seriously... My Candidate is Ron Paul.
The main stream media tells you he can't win!
Never believe it.
Weds night Ron Paul drew 10 thousand people at UC Chico. No major news outlet sent a reporter.
Thurs night Ron Paul spoke to over 11 Thousand people at UCLA. Filled the whole Tennis Center. No major media outlet considered it newsworthy.
Friday night Ron Paul Adressed a crowd of more than 8500 people, AT UC BERKELEY!!! One of the most Liberal Colleges in America. Not ONE main stream media outlet sent a reporter. The event was not "newsworthy" to them.
But Guess What?
It doesn't matter what they write. If we have overwhelming support, then we have overwhelming support.
Writing a news article saying that we don't doesn't alter reality.
The Revolution will NOT be televised, and it will NOT be covered by the Corporate Owned, Told what to say, Main Stream Media Presstitutes.
10000 people out of a country that has at least 500,000,000 people, that is not even 1 percent of the population. A crowd that is 0.00002 is supposed to impress me. The press is correct Ron Paul doesn't stand a chance this year. If he had a addressed a crowd of 5,000,000 people I would be impressed.
Wow! What a stunner!
Democrats in the Senate haven't even put a budget forward in almost THREE years and yet when the House budget comes up it will end up being "tabled" by Harry Reid, just like he's done to every other piece of legislation out of the House except raising our debt.
And yet Obama is going to criticize the Republicans for actually DOING SOMETHING.
Don't even try to negotiate. Don't try to compromise. Just criticize and do more of nothing.
Great job Barack. What a great "leader" he's turned out to be.
Cheryl, you LIE. If Senator DeMint would quit putting holds on the budget bills, they could be voted on. And why do we have 45 million out of work, we would told that "trickle down policy" would create jobs. Been waiting for how many years now, no jobs, just golden showers.
You hate welfare for needy American's, but just love corporate welfare. But keep spining their gal, you keep providing much needed comedy to people.
Sally, are you saying the last Obama budget that got voted down in the Senate 97-0 was held up by DeMint?
President's budget sinks, 97-0- TheHill.com
Actually I hope President Obama wins, you know why? Because then he cannot blame anyone else when the federal bond market crashes. There will be no one else to blame but him and his policies while he is in office. Do not get me wrong I hope that does not happen. But it is going to take something like that for you to open your eyes to all the great things that he has done.
Also remember we are as much to blame for the housing crash as anyone else. That is everyone who bought a house that they cannot afford. Refinanced their house to by a car, truck or boat.
There will always be bubbles, regulations are reactions to the market, they are not normally proactive to what might happen.
Sallyann, and who is has been getting corporate welfare right now? The supposed green energy market, how has that been going? Also GE, they did not pay any taxes at all last year. Who's fault is that?
I did agree, and still agree that we needed to help the car companies out. The banks, well I do not know of any other thing we could have done for that other than bail them out.
We have 16 trillion dollars of debt. We need to control that. Just raising taxes on the rich is not going to do it. Everything that I have read about proposed tax increases only raises about 100 billion dollars. That still leaves is 1.4 trillion dollars short.
Also no one is stopping you from paying more in taxes, you can do that at any time.
A Ryan endorsement is just another nail in the GOP/TP coffin.
Wow! What a stunner!
Republicans in the House haven't even put a realistic budget forward in almost THREE years and yet every time Obama's budgets come up they end up being "nixed" by every Republican in congress, just like they've done to every other piece of legislation out of the White House except tax cuts.
And yet Republicans are going to criticize Obama for actually DOING SOMETHING.
Don't even try to negotiate. Don't try to compromise. Just criticize and do more of nothing.
Great job Republicans. What great "leaders" they've turned out to be.
I want to make it clear that the above "quotation" is not necessarily what I really believe; I did it as a simple illustration of how WORTHLESS your post is, CherylLM -- Nothing but invective and right-wing media talking points. The sad thing is the reversed narrative I created above rings more true than the original post. I fully support your difference of opinion, but I question the manner in which you are delivering it -- forgive me for saying so, but you do not sound like you are voicing any thoughts you came up with yourself. Your posts are all very similar and, frankly, you sound like a right-wing shill whose only intent is to inject political talking points into the conversation at any and every opportunity. If you are not getting paid to do it, I strongly suggest that you contact the RNC or one of Rove's groups, because they ought to be paying for all of your hard work. Otherwise you're just another chump spouting their mantra for free like a good little drone because that is exactly what they are hoping you will do and be for them.
Speaking personally, I don't particularly like everything Obama has done, nor do I think he has all the answers. I look at each action or piece of legislation -- Democrat or Republican -- objectively based on its merits before I decide how worthwhile or not it is. I'm guessing that you, on the other hand, have already made up your mind -- the very definition of prejudice. I have read over the various summaries of the Ryan plan presented to the public and I happen to think it's impractical, misguided, and unworkable for a number of reasons, but at least I took a look at it before I passed judgment, which is likely more than you can say about it or about anything Obama has done or tried to do.
THINK before you DERP.
Tony,
I have not read Ryan's plan, but since you have. Can you tell us what parts you did not like? I also think that we should start on what we can agree on. Right now neither side seems able to do that. It would be nice to at least agree on what the problems are. I think we can all agree that we need to work on clean air. So ok how do we get there? Higher standards for cars are a start, but from what I have read they are not the major source of emissions we have. Coal plants, and new construction are. I know we have the technology to clean up our coal plants. Why don't we use that technology? Totally banning them I feel is not practical. We have new sources of natural gas. Of course these new sources have problems, "fracking comes to mind", instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water, why don't we have logical discussions about it? What really upsets me, and this is both sides, is the total polarization of every single topic. President Obama is not the only one that does this, but he is the President, so he should lead from the front. Instead of attacking, why not say, "hey, I have issues with these certain points, but lets start with these"?
As bad as President Bush was, I think durring President Obama's presidency instead of coming together we are even further apart.
How about turning Medicare into a coupon program?
Wow, where to begin regarding the Ryan plan... how about taxation? Ryan's plan does NOTHING to address existing exemptions and loopholes. It slashes Medicare expenditures without any details about how it would modify the taxes I pay to fund it. Presumably they would be lowered or eliminated, but unless it's spelled out in writing, who's to stop the government from effectively picking my pocket? It grants Medicaid money to states in a "block grant" with little or no oversight as to how the states will actually use that money. Perhaps most glaringly, it claims savings for repealing "Obamacare" without ANY justification of the numbers it claims (and never mind that "Obamacare" may not survive the SCOTUS anyway). I'm just scratching the surface here and it's toxic enough to warrant being thrown out...
Wish I had answers to your other questions on energy, but even if I did I think I'd be writing a mile-long dissertation here. I agree with your assessment that the American people, politically, are even further apart than they have ever been, but to blame the president -- Obama or Bush or whoever -- is a naive cop-out. The real blame lies with media sensationalism, which thrives on drama and lives to create it, both left and right. I fully support first amendment rights for all but that doesn't change the fact that every time I see a Beck, Hannity, Maddow, or Olbermann spouting off it makes me want to slap them upside the head.
You are right, the media certainly is a huge part of this. They have been called on it a couple of times. What frustrates me the most is the half stories that they present. Both sides could do a lot better on calling them out on that. Energy is just one of the things. Politics in its present form is such a huge disservice to us citizens. I know personally that I do not have the time to fact check every silly story that comes out. My interests include cars, so I keep very up to date on what is happening in the car industry. My career involves MFG and selling to companies that produce or package products. So I keep in touch with that as well. I have also sold things to wind farms, we work with the local oil refinery and other well known companies.
I have tried talking directly to some of our local elected officials and have had little luck. I suppose I should try harder.
I am open to other opinions, and willing to change my mind once I have more information. I am not for nucluear power now after reading more about that. I have a huge problem with wind power. Solar, there are some new things coming that could be helpful. I do not see that we are at a place where having solar panels on a house is a good thing though. Battery powered cars, well honestly the more I read about certain types of batteries, the happier I am that my garage is not attached to my house. Propane sounds good, but I think it is Picket, is going to make a killing on that.
We do need healthcare reform, I think it could have been done better. I am not a fan of the one payer part. To me that just ends up to be another tax. Once it is a tax, both parties have shown how they will change where that money ends up, instead of applying it where it is supposed to go.
@subnormal -"I think we can all agree that we need to work on clean air"
A big resounding NOPE. I disagree, not because I don't think clean air is important, but because I think it should be far from the top of the priority list. The United States has been a leader in enviromentally sound policy for decades. We, the United States , are no longer a problem in that area. Convince the burgeoning economies in China, India, et al developing and industrializing nations to take care of clean air. We already have it covered. Why regulate ourselves further into the hole of global competitiveness?
Additionally, my kids won't need clean air when I can't afford to put gas in the car to get to work to earn the money that puts the food on the table and they die of starvation. I have other concerns than clean air right now.
Nuclear power is clean energy. It is also safe energy if we don't allow the 'lowest bidder' to skimp on materials quality and safety.
Higher standards for cars? Seriously? In 1980 my dad had a Chevy Chevette that had a 2 barrel carb, a 2.2 liter engine, and a 4 speed manual transmission that pulled down 32mpg all the time. (we still have the log book) My 2007 Chevy Cobalt pulls down a grand 33-35mpg. Can anyone seriously think that a 30 year development window is not enough to do better that 2 or 3 mpg? Cobalt is made of lighter materials, has multi-port fuel injection, computer controlled fuel regulation, a 5 speed manual transmission, and runs on "up to 10%" ETHANOL, which is coincidentally not "up to 10% cheaper" and does operate at "up to 10%" less fuel efficiency. Granted, the Cobalt has about 40 more horsepower than the Chevette....so strip the pollution controls down to minumum, reduce the power output by tweaking the fuel delivery, let me buy "pure gas" and watch it get 40+ mpg.
Follow that up with a national legislation that sunsets all fuel economy patents within 6 months of passage unless that patented fuel economy product is in active production and available to public consumption and you will see vehicle fuel economy skyrocket as most of those unused patents start flooding the market in real products that improve fuel economy.
Another fun fact....if I could produce a vehicle that averaged 100+ mpg, had all the basic comfort items and sold under $17k.....looked hideous, and produced twice the "pollution" of any other vehicle on the road, but still met minimum federal guidelines (pollutes twice as much, but burns 1/3 the fuel = less pollution).....I would never be able to meet the consumer demand. Because it COSTS LESS, PERFORMS BETTER, MEETS CONSUMER NEEDS, not because it is the 'green choice'. I also wouldn't need legislation or tax incentives to help me sell them.
I was selling Toyotas in 1982; the Starlet was getting in the mid 40'smpg w/ California Emissions! Some of my customers reportedly were cracking 50mpg; the car inexplainably disappeared from the U.S. market after only a 2yr. run.
OoOPs there goes SallyAnn. And I know the liberals on this page had to have heard the actual real 911 call from Mr. Zimmerman. And the edited NBC version. I only watch NBC news and blog only here. So I get no "dumbfux" news at all, however this NBC faux pas has truly hurt their credibility.
Sally Ann, you are confusing DeMint with Reid. The leader of the majority party is the one who sets the legislative agenda, and the majority in the Senate has been the Democrats, with Reid as their leader.
There are a lot of things to be angry about with both sides of the aisle, so you shouldn't have to make things up.
Read it and weep: $4.34 for Premium during July 2008 ($4.11 for Regular) based on the U.S. National Average...under George W. Bush
Cheryl you do lie, the democrats did put forth a budget, Obama's budget that got exactly 0 votes! A budget that cant even get one of your parties members to vote for it is probably a pretty bad deal. I thought the community organizer had supreme skills of bringing people together. 0 votes! 0 votes! 0 votes! Shut your pie hole Pres Obama, just shut up, nobody has any interest in what you have to say and nobody has any interest in voting for your budgets!
Ever notice that the community organizers like Sharpton and Obama never really do anything but complain about someone else?
Sally ann... LMAO! You said...
I find it so interesting that obama himself is channeling reagans "trickle down economics" himself. The only difference is reagans was voluntary and obamas is forced. Such leadership from obama, more "my way or the highway". lol.
"I have not read Ryan's plan, but since you have. Can you tell us what parts you did not like?"
For starters -- it kills Medicare for anyone under 55 while giving more tax breaks to the richest of the rich.
Tony - rightly or wrongly, perhaps even naively, I look at the ryan plan as being an alternative to what the senate has proposed for a FY2013 budget. I would expect the differences to be worked out on how our money is spent prior to it going to obama for signage.
Now if only the senate would develope a budget and not think about continuing resolutions.
----------------------
Charlie, we already know that both SS and medicare are not sustainable.
I checked out the SS web site earlier for an estimate of my projected bennies and read their disclaimer that as of 2037 I would only receive 77% of what I earned. Think medicare won't be facing the same restrictions? Without reform both programs are doomed.
Amazing how gas prices went up over 40% only 1 1/2 years after the Dems took control of the House and Senate.
We also know that we don't need to privatize them wholesale. All we have to do is raise the retirement age, adjust COLA, reinstate estate taxes, use progressive indexing, raise the cap to 90% of all earnings, raise taxes on benefits, and we eliminate the SS shortfall. Apply this to Medicare, and we can save both programs without privatizing them. Why didn't the GOP offer that??? Why didn't they proposal to raise revenues and cut outlays??? Instead of privatizing them, they could have compromised. But no, Ryan's plan only consists of GOP "values."
Translation: Tax, tax and more taxes and let them retire at 90. That's the ticket. No mention of not spending, and BTW, when has a politican ever, ever not spent tax monies? You think any politican is going to use all the tax largesse to pay down debt? Really? They're already spending and 'budgeting' fiat money to go into a rathole but, yes, yes, let us tax 90% of what someone earns. They can get by on the 10% the government will graciously let them keep.
When a person gets to the new 'retirement' age, (80, 90?) the chances are they'll have died and therefore won't be needing any of that SS money so perhaps your plan does have merit afterall.
subnormal,
You sure like to hear yourself talk. Nothing of what you say has any basis in fact. I have read the Ryan budget and what parts I like can be counted on one hand of a quadruple amputee. ZERO.
With a screen name of "subnormal" what happenend, got a low opinion of yourself? Perhaps you could have use at least one capital letter in your name?
Mygirl, you do know that NOBODY is proposing a 90% tax rate. NOBODY. Some people are simply advocating a four point increase for the income tax for the highest bracket to 39.6%, and a nine point increase to 25% for capital gains. THAT'S IT. Nothing else. The only people who propose anything like that are asking for a tax on 90% of what a person makes, and that is for the payroll tax on SS. They simply want a guy who makes $500,000 to pay a tax on $450,000 of his salary, and at approximately 4% that would come up to a whopping $18,000 (sarc).
OBAMA BIDEN 2012
Of course Obama will criticize the budget. His was voted down 414-0 and the Ryan budget doesn't have enough freebies for his electorate. You know, big labor and the leeches who pay nothing and feed from the taxpayer funded trough.
Getting that info from the Tabloid ?
Are all your posts this nonsensical or is today just special for you?
I suppose giving even more freebies and handouts to large corporations is the way to go?
From your perspective, it's a good thing to give large corporations freebies but not the people that actually need it. Sounds bass ackwards to me...
So tell me, who is the leaches? Seems to me the large corporations and high income earners are the leeches. I pay over 35% in taxes on every paycheck and the same people that are only paying around 15% want more breaks? How is giving these same people even more breaks going to help anyone out? It's been proven time and time again that it doesn't work.
onesoul.
So you pay 35% in federal taxes?
Hmm how much do you make then?
That would mean that you make more than $350,000.00 a year. Oh wait, you do not pay 35% on all of your income to that point. That is when the max tax rate kicks in. So you must make a lot more than that to average 35%.
Maybe it is 4-5 billion dollars?
Maybe you are self employed, paying for both income tax, and the tax that a company pays for each and every employee does not count.
@subnormal -
I said I pay roughly 35% "IN" taxes. I did not say I pay 35% in Federal taxes. Nice try in attempting to spin my words though...
And FYI, if I was making what you proclaim in your rant then I would be paying around 15%.
Onesoul:
You do understand that the people paying 15% taxes on capitol gains have already paid at the 37% rate for earned income... RIGHT? Meaning they have already paid taxes on the money they are using for investments! GET IT STRAIGHT!
onesoul,
The 15% that you are bringing up is federal taxes. It does not include state taxes at all.
You are the one that is spinning your numbers.
No you are wrong again. It depends on how you make it. If it is salary it is taxed at one rate. If it is investment income it is taxed at a different rate.
You try again. There is no spin in what I said.
In fact you spun your number by not clarifying what taxes you are talking about.
Depending on what state you are in, someone paying 15% in federal taxes could have a tax liability higher than your supposed 35%.
Matthew:
They paid 37% on the money they used to buy the investment. They pay 15% on the returns from that investment. They are not being double-taxed; they are being taxed on new income.
Provided they actually earned and didn't inherit it...perhaps you should get it straight. By the way, they are paying on the PROFIT not the principle investment amount, so in effect they did NOT pay taxes on the profits at 37% ...nice try...next?
Jealous? so now the money that they invested, the money taxed at 37% was inherited. Gotcha.
Matthew, so once I've paid taxes on my $100,000/year income and then spend it to lease a little Mercedes coup, the car dealer should not have to pay a penny of income tax, 'cause that money has already been taxed?
And when that dealer springs for a diamond necklace from Tifffany's, Tiffany doesn't have to pay income tax either 'cause I already paid taxes on that money?
Come to think of it, that 100K I just earned was probably earned from people who already paid taxes on it before I got it. That money is being double-taxed.
Now there's a tax plan that gives tax accountants nightmares.
Well, when you put it like that perhaps you should look at all the taxes levied on the money. There isn't a thing out there that isn't taxed in some way or another. Sales tax, sin tax, property tax, income tax, gasoline tax, phone tax, utility tax, inheritance tax, automobile tax(es), licenses and fees on just about EVERYTHING. I would say the air we breathe but with cap and trade that's gonna get taxed too....
All you conservatives just love to talk about the Senate not passing a budget. The constitution diabetes all spending bills begin in the House and technically the house did pass a budget. But House Republicans passing a budget that everyone involved knows is going nowhere is the same as not passing any budget. It was nothing more than playing politics with numbers. Remember back in 2009 the House Republicans suggested a budget -- with NO NUMBERS in it. They're playing the same game this time --- just using different tactics.
Patriotic American USA Where the hell do you get your info NBC (FRAUD).
Well said, Charlie. Yet I wish the Senate did send a budget. Then again, I highly doubt it would ever be sent to the House, thanks to those damn filibustering right-wing obstructionists. That's why I say clean the Senate of all those right-wing scum and the House as well in November. We the people will need to do some spring cleaning a little late this year, but if it gets things rolling in Washington then I guess it'll be worth it.
LOL. That's it Barry, criticize someone for doing something you have FAILED o do for over 3 years now. NOT ONCE have you been serious about getting a budget passed. Just keep spending MY HARD EARNED MONEY WITH NO SAFEGAURDS WHATSOEVER.
The anti-semetic, anti-American, anti-Constitutional, anti-individual, pro collective, pro division, pro abortion, anti-business, pro regulate to death, pro congressional end run, president. How far has this country fallen to even allow this man anywhere near a position of power?
And now freely attacks the supreme court with one judge who should of recused herself about striking down his unconstitutional (illegal) healthcare law.
As opposed to the judge whose wife lobbies against it not recusing himself?
How is the health care law (illegal)? It was voted on and approved by the democratically elected majority in both the US house and senate. The democratically elected president sighed it into law. And I for one support him and the law.
If you do not like or agree with democracy here in America, perhaps you should leave. Iraq or Iran seems like a fitting choice for ya.
I love the numbers from all of these clowns claiming the CBO projects our economy will collapse by 2027. They only project out 10 years to 2022 so the 2027 number these clowns are claiming is imaginary. There is no such projection. And they say the debt percentage of GDP will go to 76% of GDP by 2022 from the current 68% as of end of 2011. Let's hear some more chicken little chicken crap from the right (really the wrong). Please. Read for yourselves
www.cbo.gov/publication/43083
Berndog did you attend school? We have three branches of government, not two. Both houses of congress can pass a law and if the president vetoes it, the bill doesn't become a law. If congress has the votes they can override the veto. The Supreme Court simply makes sure the law is constitutional. If it is found unconstitutional they must strike it down. It doesn't matter if the law is good or bad, it must be constitutional to be a law. So telling the justices how many people the law helps or how many people it will hurt is irrelevant. With 2700 pages it must have a few good points.
Since we live in a republic, not a democracy perhaps you are in the wrong country.
Berndog,
We are not a Democracy we are a Republic. Greece was a democracy with many of the ideas that have been approved of in this comment section. How are they doing now? I don't know about you but I have a great fear of this happening to the country I know and love.
The Supreme Court was put in place to decide the constitutionality of bills made in the House, Senate and Presidency so they have every right to decide if a bill, passed with a substantial majority of one party in both houses and the presidency, was/is a legally binding law. So why should they be abused by anyone for doing their job.
Sorry Diamond60 I think we were typing at the same time. BTW I like your comment.
Berndog, simply because it was voted upon by a group of people who couldn't care less about the people the law affects, doesn't mean it's constitutional. The fact that you try to tell people to move to Iran or Iraq because they disagree is terrible. It would be as bad as me telling you to go there because you want total government control of your life.
Diamond60 - Perhaps you should have gone to school a little longer. The Constitution does not authorize the Supreme Court to decide the Constitutionality of a law. The Supreme Court usurped the Constitution and granted that power to themselves in the Marbury v. Madison case. In truth, and if challenged by the Congress, the Supreme Court could easily be stripped of that authority. In fact, since the Supreme Court has no capability to enforce their decisions, the Congress and Administration could simply ignore them. That's pretty farfetched admittedly, but entirely possible.
From the jack ass downgrade president whose own budget for 2013 was defeated 414 to zero in the house and whose 2012 budget was defeated 97-0 in the senate... Folks that is not down party lines like the healthcare fiasco where they just found a 17 trillion dollar funding shortage.
trico, you either are lying, or other people are. You stated the 2012 budget was defeated, and other posters are whinning that he hasn't present a budget. Can't you tea baggers get your talking points straight?
Why not just research it yourself SallyAnn. It seems like you have a lot to say but for the most part you are just throwing insults around at people like an uneducated twit. If you want to try and put yourself on a pedestal try not being such a B****.
Sally, knowledge is a libs worst enemy.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03/28/gop-run-house-easily-rejects-obama-budget/
Knowledge is an unknown to Republicans.
SallyAnn, he hasn't presented a legitimate budget. How's that? By legitimate I mean ANYTHING which they could actually negotiate on, the DEMS themselves voted 414-0 in the house and 97-0 in the senate...MEANING not one Dem voted for it and it was not serious and EVERYONE KNEW IT INCLUDING THE DEMS!
Jonsmith,
while you are a wealth of knowledge and insight.
Trico, your the jackass here. The house Democrats voted against the Republican add on's to the bill.
@subnormal, I'm the one with the 151 IQ, 2 college degrees and a Mensa candidate...what are your credentials?
Well, I have an IQ of 220, four college degrees, speak eighteen languages and can fly very high when I flap my wings....I can make up just about anything about myself and post it as fact. Did I mention that I can hold my breath for eight hours and when I walk on water my feet don't get wet?
Everyone does remember that it's not the President's responsibility to write budgets, right? But, hell, no one else seems to be doing anything, so...
are you related to president Obama?, must be the ears....
You too! I thought I was the only one! :)
JonSmith, I am a MENSA candidate too, but that does not necesarily mean anyone with a high IQ has either common sense or uses sound judgment. So much for beating your chest like an ape.
Mygirl1 (post 8.9) - Just what I am looking for, an intelligent woman with attitude. ;0)
Jonsmith, They say obama is book smart as well and we all know where that got him, hot water!
The GOP : "Sorry,...there's no money left in our coffers to have a middle class at all".
We need that money for top management and the ownership,...they need bigger and bigger salaries and bonuses and houses and cars and perks and retirement packages.
The fruits of the whole nation's labor are going right to the top,...and their attitude is "tough sh*t",..."you have no power to change anything,...you'll take what you are given,....be glad you have a job".
The 99% need to unite as we approach November.
Your vote has NEVER mattered so much.
Vote Barack Obama in 2012,...or be ready to accept less and less for doing more and more in the name of corporate profits YOU WILL NEVER SEE.
The GOP wants you to fear the government. Why ? Because the want the "referee" out of the way, so they can force an unacceptable standard of living upon the middle class in order to grant themselves tax cuts.
Do you actually think that corporate America will hesitate in working EXCLUSIVELY in the interest of the bottom line ? YOU KNOW THAT ALL THAT CORPORATE AMERICA IS DRIVEN BY IS THE BOTTOM LINE. The well being of the public is not their business, responsibility or concern.
The key concept: "To the WINNER goes the spoils",...and btw screw you if you are notat the top. Mine, mine, mine,....that is the main tennet of the"Freedom" that the GOP support. The are secure in the notion that the financial game has already been won. The lower 95% are already at an EXTREEEEEEME disadvantage.
If you are in,...good for you,....if not,...prepare to struggle and work until the month you die.
Here's the GOP choice for you old age,....food or health care.
Go ahead and vote for the GOP this year. You will be governed by and your family's future will be decided by others' desire for greater wealth. DON'T FOOL YOURSELF.
Vote Obama this November. Unite the middle and working class against the planned financial tyranny of the GOP.
How is the government going to hold those $822,000.00 confernces if they don't get more money?
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/02/politics/gsa-head-resigns/index.html
Notice that no one from the left had an answer to your question.
If the government was handling our money wisely and prudently, minor tax increases on the well-off, wealthy and uber-wealthy would be better received.
The sad truth, however, is our country has a serious SPENDING PROBLEM and Obama has done nothing to bring it under control. Quite the opposite, he wants to burn through the borrowed trillions even faster .... like pouring gasoline on a fire !
When do the Democrats come up with a SEIOUS budget proposal ????????????????
no one answered because your post was insignificant twaddle. One government head goes crazy with taxpayer money and Runs-up hundreds of thousands of bills to party.
Republicans hand the oil companies HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS in subsidies- you know the oil companies which made history with record-breaking profits.
We've got a clutch of idiot bureaucrats that thought it was time to party on the governments dime, but you guys are a machine to shovel as much wealth to the already wealthiest Americans
Obama considers allowing oil companies deductions for "exploration costs" as subsidies. In fact, it is a cost of doing business. Fish like you swallow it hook line and sinker.
When Obama begins to DEFINE what specific things he deems are subsidies, then maybe we will all have something concrete and real to consider. Until then, it's just more hot air ... more empty rhetoric that is part of his strategy to divide the American people and hope he comes out with the "larger half".
The same is true with the boogeyman terminology "loopholes" .... only very few can be specific enough to define exactly what is a "loophole". Obama continues to attack the business sector while at the same time supposedly creating jobs. Government jobs are all he has created, and those are PARASITIC in nature, depending on private sector taxes for existence.
Pissedoffperson... "The lack of action by the GOP has created a better economical environment..."
That has to be the most psychotic and twisted thing I've ever read in here. Unbelievable...
Spin doesn't even come close to a description for that post.
After the President's own "budget" proposal of raise taxes and spend more, what else is he going to do?
Only the left wing fringe actually supports this idiot anymore.
He makes Jimmy Carter look like George Washington.
Left Wing Fring. What a card.
Where's "Feisty" at?
She's usually the FIRST post on MSNBC.
Oh wait, even she can't support this unqualified, ignorant, nation hating, "social justice", "leader" with her hate filled comments.
Cheryl, pot calling the kettle black?
Cheryl - fiesty can't post here, the moderators would keep on suspending her. She pretty much is a paid troll on First Read. Moderators there are non-existant.
Really, after the rpubs destroyed the country, you will vote for the party of the Super rich. You must be a millionaire or a teabagger.
My goodness, so if you don't want to bancrupt the country then there must be something wrong with you. Oh, and the superrich teabaggers, they live here too and would suffer greatly if the country goes bancrupt but don't let that get in the way of espousing a progressive agenda. I will give the progressives credit, except for the political elite living off the serfs, under their plan everybody will share poverty equally.
Don't worry. NOBODY is voting for Obama anyway. He is one self-serving EVIL, unbelievably stupid man along with his THUGS (think Holder) in his administrations. We've all had enough of this money-spending freak.
Ryan's budget is complete disaster. On the other hand if it were passed it would destroy his political career and paint him as an incompetent, money-grubbing for the rich, discompassionate creten.
My favorite is the various graphs I've seen. The Ryan budget proposal would have about the same impact as reversing the Bush/Obama tax cuts. (Bush started them, Obama continued them.) The Republicans don't like reversing the tax cuts because it isn't something that makes government smaller.
The Republicans are into the selective memory phase of the Budget plan. The Bush Temporary Tax cuts are now perminate because they say they are perminate.
Do the Republicans really believe that the American Public will stand for this Blatent CLASS WARFARE. I have mine and I am going to keep it, you can't tax my Gains that I recieved due to the temporary tax cuts.
It is going to get ugly. The Super Pacs are well funded and can LIE about any issue. The Republican canidate can say " I don't control those folks". What a piece of crap the Supreme Court produced.
Hey Chip, Hes already doing that, Ryan is lining his pockets and those of his corrupt friends every day. Ryan is a out right, rightwing crook that will stop at nothing to be VP. Ryan is a interloper and a dishonor to this Country that walks with the 1%.
I wonder if the senate will come up with an alternate budget? Maybe after 3 years senate leader reid has forgotten what one is.
What is so amazing is that so many American's seem to have not taken government or civics in school. Saying that someone wants to slash government is rediculous as the government is us. Who would want to slash Medicare or Social Security as that is what our parents and many of our older reletives rely on? So many have been manipulated by the politicians and have allowed them to pit one group agaiinst the other. Listen carefully and learn before buying into the simple platitudes of the right or the left. Neither of them care about you.
I say that all the time that neither of them care about us. I'm tired of seeing People voted in and becoming the President of the United Republicans or Democrats only. When these a$$ holes ruin this country. They and the 1% will leave with all their money, and as usual t will be up to the rest of us to fix their bull $h!t they left here. I'm tired of this crap.
Obama's budget did not receive a single yes-vote. Not one. O, you have no credibility on the budget issue. Stick to race and gender agitating if you think you have a chance. The fisc is an absolute loser for you.
The last time I took a Government Class the House was responsible for the Budget. Yeah they send 9 feet of trash to the Senate for conformation and the Senators Laugh. We have no functioning Government only a biggotted monority runing the House.
@Carl Buffoon #15.1,
You must have been asleep in your government class ! The President is to present a budget proposal, the House will normally "act upon it" and then it is sent to the Senate for a vote.
Obama's proposal last year received ZERO votes from his own party. This year's "budget" from Obama called for spending increases and was so bad that Harry Reid won't even bring it up for a vote. Maybe Harry slept through Civics class also.
I suggest you all review what the constitution says what each houses responsibilities are as well as those of the executive branch. Allocations are not restricted to only being generated by the house first because the senate can do the same or offer up amendments to what the house proposes.
A presidential budget plan is only a wish list that neither the senate or house needs to vote on, especially if their is no congressional sponser for it.
And Rep. Paul Ryan is the guru on finances?? The one who offered up 6 trillion in cuts with no taxes to help pay for it??? Blaming everything on entitlements? No wasteful spending on 2 unneeded wars?? With no revenue stream to pay for those wars?? Tax cuts going on for 10 years now, the Great Bush Depression showed us that tax cuts solve everything!!!
I can understand why someone whose sole responsibility in life has been to utilize someone else's credit card doesn't like a budget or even the concept of one. It's very easy to spend other people's money and come up with justifications of fairness to do so. It would be nice if we had a real choice regarding government spending, but we'll get someone with well documented expertise in the use of OPM either way.
Our government hasn't run in the black since 1969. There isn't a single household in America that could run a budget that poorly for that long.
Running a government budget isn't at all like a household budget. Not even close. For those that keep using this comparison, it's not only moronic, it's a slogan oft-repeated by people who want over-simplistic solutions to complex cultures and interdependent institutions. You don't carry out coordination between millions of people with a household budget, nor does a house budget have to unify entire neighborhoods and the businesses within them, on rules, laws, regulations and standards that benefit everyone.
------------------------------
Pedestrian-in-SF
Oh please, Dahly. Spare us the nonsensical equation of government budgeting being the same as you budgeting for groceries. Unless you had someone writing checks for 8 years for little things like wars that you're finally having to pay, it's a dumb comparison.
#1.1 - Thu Mar 8, 2012 1:25 PM PST
What is the Role of Government?
Excerpts:
Obviously, there is a consensus that in America, we do not want government to be the sole provider of health services. As we continue to explore the issue of government’s proper role in our economy and in our communities, let’s remember two points: 1) Government has no monopoly on management incompetence and; 2) Government provides many services efficiently and effectively. Call 911 and the fire, police, and emergency services arrive in a hurry. Turn on your faucet and water comes out of the tap, or place your garbage in a bag by the street and a big white truck will come and take it away. These are the routine tasks of government, completed largely at the local level.
Let’s take a look at management in the private sector. According to the American Bankruptcy Institute (reported in the Kansas City Business Journal on August 25, 2009), “more than 30,000 businesses filed for bankruptcy protection in the first half of 2009, up 64 percent from the nearly 18,500 in the same period last year”. This means that even during a good year, over 35,000 American private businesses go under. Of course, sometimes they fail due to bad luck and market conditions. Not all bankruptcies are caused by incompetence, and not all incompetence leads to bankruptcy.
http://www.observer.com/2009/08/what-is-the-role-of-government/
True, our government hasn't run in the black since 69, but as I recall we were in Vietnam and fighting against the Soviets. We did technically have a surplus during the Clinton years (maybe augmented by SS borrowing, but a surplus nonetheless).
And you cannot compare the budget of the federal government to that of a single household. Why??? Because that is comparing macroeconomics to microeconomics. The federal government's budget is based on a number of factors, from GDP growth to tax rates to income growth. Secondly, it is perfectly normal for a budget to go into the red when a recession occurs (I restate this because it seems the GOP, who claim to be the best at economics, seem to forget this)), because of a shortfall in revenues and increased spending on safety nets. In addition, balancing a budget in the middle of either a recession OR a fragile recovery can destroy the economy (look up 1937 recession). As for the comparison, a family budget is based on different factors; how many people in the family work, the area in which they live in, whether they live in a house or not, etc. Quite simply, they are not very comparable.
And I am guessing by your fiscal awareness that you are studying every single deficit proposal being sent through Congress, are you not??? And I would love to compare both parties' deficit propositions in the microeconomic manner, as I find that it will be most effective. One party (who will remain nameless) proposes to cut the household budget severely, reducing funds for education, 401ks, food, etc. On the revenue side, they offer to take a job for half of the pay, in the hopes that they will eventually be promoted and that the lack of money will condition their spending (see starve the beast). The other party offers a quite different proposal, asking for a promotion/raise and accepting the responsibility, cutting vacation and going out expenses, and investing more money into 401ks, college funds, and fixing the house. What say you???
It's true. The mr grover, gop, & rushbo budget never increases tax cuts on the wealthy & corps. It places the burden of govt upon the poor. The gop motto - 'you are on your own. May the odds be ever in your favor.' That's why there are soooo many more shootings. 90 guns for every 100 people. More are needed according to the gop & nra.
Now why would President Obama attack Ryan's plan? After all it completely guts Medicare,healthcare and gives the 1% their desired tax cuts. Cong.Ryan is as dangerous as Sarah Palin was. The problem is, he is just starting out and we will have to deal with this JERK in the future just as we will have to deal with the soon to be recalled and removed from office-Scott Walker of Wisconsin. These jerks have become the heroes of the Republican't party's future and we will be dealing with these creeps for many years. God help us if these creeps ever get a foothold in the Republican Party and go on to be President or V.P.
Wow, what a great copy and paste.
If I were in my 20's right now I'd LOVE to be able to decide where my Social Security and Medicare "takeouts" went, instead of the Federal Government deciding for me.
I'd have been a MILLIONAIRE and would have had a CADILLAC HEALTH PLAN instead of getting "up to" $1,100 a month in a Social Security payment and having the absolute MINIMUM allowed in "payments" paid for by the Government, meaning that I am also limited on the the doctors that I can go to.
Take your out and out stupid "entitlement" mindset somewhere else please.
You are so lost licking Obama's shoes that you can't see the REAL world.
Sorry to disappoint but Social Security is a pay as you go program. The idea of personal accounts is fantasy. I pay for you. It is no longer social insurance it is a tax. Think you could do better investing yourself, so does everyone else. You might be right then you might end up with nothing, greed trumps all. Remember, you are the recipient of a government program that the people you support want to end. The first person out on the street will be you. But according to them, it's your own fault. We wanted FDR, we got Obama, but thank God we don't have Romney. Regarding your earlier post. Congress holds the purse strings and no president can turn around an economy without the support of Congress. The Congress is responsible for fixing this mess and I don't agree that giving Charles and David a tax cut and eliminating your benefit is the way to do it.
The great thing about Social Security is that for people like me, they are forecasting doom and gloom, that people my age will get no benefit because it will all be gone. Well guess what? There are about 9 presidential elections between me and my retirement. I can vote for the person with a good plan for fixing it. I can vote against the idiot who won't take action. I can do it and so can you.
Cheryl, you keep accusing people of copying and pasting (you are a well-trained little troll, aren't you), but if it can't be found verbatim anywhere else on the web, then you're just talking out of your ass. Not that we hadn't already noticed.
You seem to be a very mean kind of person who isn't as interested in improving our country as you are getting the latest "zinger" over on someone. (I'm mean, really, you can't show at least a little respect for a veteran?) Least you could do is be clever, but I guess we can't expect miracles.
Pragmatic - good for you, based on my experience, ever since reagan and tip o'niel put the first fix in for SS the problem has persisted to come back every few years and bite the politicians and us in the ass. By 2037 SS will only have enough to pay out 77% of the bennies allocated to us. Reform away...
It's called "mental illness" and it's apparent in more ways than just that one. Pity Cheryl.
I don't see the upside of Rep.Paul Ryan they guy goes around touting domestic oil expansion, sure he does, because his family will become filthy rich since they own oil and gas land. Sure he "offers "job bills to the Senate to grow the economy in his words, the FOX television people just worship the guy like he's the accountant from heaven. Just be prepared to have what entitlements you put into these many years look totally different than any of us envisioned.
I guess I can understand him wanting to criticize someone else's plan, since EVERY SINGLE CONGRESSPERSON voted against his budget.
The GOP wants to go back to the old days. If you can make money and support yourself, great. If you can't, don't expect any help. Anyone who can't support themselves must be stupid or lazy or both, right? Our society works best when some people get to be rich, and other people starve or become homeless. Survival of the fittest.
Good old days...like under Reagan...18% interest rates, 10.8% unemployment, 189% increase in debt...good old days...
With many of the folks on the left it's not a matter of 'can't' support themselves it more like 'won't' support themselves.
Jonsmith,
those are the conditions that President Reagan recieved from President Carter.
Though the official Department of Labor number shows that the unemployment rate dropped from 8.5% in December 2011 to 8.3% in January 2012, the CBO report states that, “The official unemployment rate excludes those individuals who would like to work but have not searched for a job in the past four weeks as well as those who are working part-time but would prefer full-time work; if those people were counted among the unemployed, the unemployment rate in January 2012 would have been about 15 percent.”
A ‘real’ unemployment rate of 15% is absolutely unacceptable for any president. Especially when running for reelection, on the platform of the same failed policies.
John Smith: you are telling half truths about Ronald Reagan. Unemployment did spike in 1983 at 10.4, but was much lower before and much much lower after. In 1984 it was in the 7's and 1985 and 1986 in the 7's, and 6's in 1987, by 1988 it was in the 6's and 5's and the 5's the last 3 years of his presidency. Typically democratic tactic of not telling the truth.
The problem is there are some on the right using that same sort of purposely-myopic logic to blame Obama for the current unemployment rates. Let's cut the baloney on both sides and lay blame where it belongs: on EVERYONE. The Bush/Cheney administration and the Republican-controlled congress under their tenure is mostly responsible for landing us in the recession (a portion of it also rests squarely on a complicit Bill Clinton and his Republican-controlled congress in the latter '90s), and Bush/Cheney and the Democrat-controlled congress under their tenure are at least partially responsible for getting us out of this mess. The Obama/Biden administration and the formerly-Democrat-controlled-and-now-partly-Republican-controlled congress are also partially responsible for getting us out of it as well. The obstructionist ultras (conservative AND liberal) on both sides aren't helping anyone and have, if anything, slowed the speed of the recovery by their very inaction. Unfortunately, there are more of these "do-nothings" on the right than the left, as has been repeatedly demonstrated by the composition of votes (at least when things DO come up for a vote) since -- with extremely rare exception -- while some Democrat members of congress have voted for Republican bills, NO Republican members are voting for Democrat bills. Republican senators are particularly culpable here, since they as a united bloc have refused to let Democrat-sponsored legislation even come up for debate, let alone any votes. I do not believe that Mitch McConnell or Harry Reid are reasonable men, and both should be voted out along with most of their peers. John Boehner is much more reasonable and could probably get some things done if he could get a handle on the more extremist conservatives in the House.
What really should happen is both parties should excise their more radical elements -- which comprise a distinct minority in both parties -- but they won't, because that would give an advantage (at least in the short-term) to the opposition. What both parties apparently fail to realize is that if they made that sacrifice, they would gain FAR greater support in the long-term than they would lose in the short-term as independents and disaffected members of the opposition would gravitate into their ranks. From what I can see in this little slice of history in which I've been alive to experience, the Democrats are slowly, tentatively starting to figure this out as their wingnuts grow quieter and their positions on various issues gravitate more to center-right. The Republicans, for the most part -- in the current cycle, at least -- are moving (or being dragged by the Tea Party) to the right as well as their wingnuts grow louder. I will be VERY interested over the next few years to see which way the pendulum swings next...
Steve don't you get it. It's cheaper to hire in the third world and corporations make more money that way. With no social contract you get no jobs and GOP policies will give you more of the same. We tried tax cuts next we try repatriation. Greed is greed. I am a fan of using tax policy to incentivize hiring here, but that would be anathema to the right. Government can also help through infrastructure projects, again DOA by the GOP.
@Steve and subnormal, I am telling the truth, you are regurgitating what Rush and Fox tell you to, like good little automatons. Do some research. At this point in his presidency, Reagan had a higher unemployment rate than Obama, yet you criticize Obama. He effectively began our deficit spending spree, and even took credit for freeing the Iranian hostages. I bet you even think that the rich paid 70% in taxes and this under his tax restructure paid less afterward.
No mention of the fact that our corporate tax rate is now the highest rate in the world. Why is that? Guess if you want to kill any possibility of economic recovery, that is a good place to start. But, hey, this is Obama now, so guess we don't need any wealth to be redistributed.
Supreme Court says corporations are people, too. So why do we have a separate tax code for these "guys". Get a clue MG, economic recovery is about people not corporations. Unless of course you believe that corporations will actually spend their money on people. Surely you don't still believe that myth?
Well maybe those that stay on welfare there whole life and teach there children to maybe they should be cut off and starve I have enough bills of my own to pay I do not need to be caring a person who's sole purpose in life is to have more kids so they can get a bigger welfare check, if we do not do something with social security then there will not be anything left when it is my time to retire, the fact of burying your head in the sand does not work you have to make tough choices to try and turn it around some may not like it but you have to do it. Here is a novel idea why don't we get all the actor's to put on a telethon for the American people in need instead of everywhere but America because we rather let the government take care of the one's in need. The fact are we need tough budget cuts and get rid of tax loop holes, and if the tax cuts are deep enough then you can raise the taxes on everyone not just the rich and no i'm not rich but they pay there share and it is deficit not a rich person's deficit.
Jonsmith - then it should be no problem for you to post the historical department of labor statistics then, right? Then you can provide us all with the historical public debts, inflation rates and GDP as well. You know, sites that end with .gov.
While you are at it why not give us a topical overview of historical events that occurred during the 70's and 80's. Just the highlights will do. You know, historical context does have a bearing.
It would be most illuminating if you could also explain why no economist or politician have been able to consistently and accurately predict recessions. After all they are cyclical in nature.
Probably not the easiest graph to read, but it does bear out what jonsmith stated (there were several links that I found that basically stated the same thing, but the easiest to copy site that I saw only noted the state on a biannual basis.
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/JOBSHISTORY09.html
Also, if you go to this BLS (bureau of labor statistics) site, and input a time range of 1980 to 2012, you will see that the 1983 time period, the unemployment rate exceeded 10% and was higher than it has ever hit in this recession
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000
As for this recession, it isn't cyclical, it is structural that resulted from the rapid deflation of an asset bubble. This is very similar to what happened post the 1929 stock market crash.
Anyfish: So, the corporations you're referencing don't hire people, they don't employ people. They aren't staffed by people and they aren't owned or run by people. Thank you for pointing that out. I was wondering what a corporation was and now I understand completely. People do not exist in a corporation, corporations are composed of...what?
Cheryl- What's with the cut and paste line? Anyway thanks for regurgitating fauxs noise talking points.
Most of us Liberals have jobs, health insurance, 401ks etc.
We are fighting for the poor, Women, children the elderly all without Corporations money and influence.
Let's have a vote in this country on where our tax money goes, my husbands of 30 years and I want ours to go to entitlements to house, feed, educate, and give healthcare to the needy of this country.
Your GOP/baggers can go for War, welfare for oil Co's, tax breaks for the rich, tax breaks to Corp outsourcing American jobs.
The GOP/bagger mindset of I got mine, screw everybody else, but we are the ones with Christian value's? Even Jesus was a liberal.
Freedom is the GOP/bagger cry, but you want to dictate who can marry, what we do in our bedrooms, and mandate trans-vaginal probes for Women having a legal medical procedure.
Hummbird,
If you have a job, have extra money than I see no reason why you cannot do the things that you are talking about to help the down trodden.
I do not have a problem helping someone who is down on their luck. I do not think it is societies job however to take care of them for the rest of their lives. We need them to take responsibility for their own actions and decisions. There are many groups that help people no questions asked.
Standing there telling someone else that they have to pay for something because you will only do it if everyone else has too, is not a Christian value.
Now if you are already doing all you can, well Thanks for your work.
Just throwing more money at things is not going to solve the problem. I do not care how much money you spend on a mobile home, at the end of the day it is still a mobile home.
I did not support going to Iraq or Afghanistan. But if you remember what people were saying, we have to do something. Well we did, how much if any good is going to come of it? Well I do not think much if any good will come of it.
There is no welfare for the Oil companies, actually it is quite the opposite. For every dollar they make they pay $1.40 in taxes. I fail to see how that is welfare.
We are as much to blame for outsourcing as any one else. Where do you shop? Do you try to buy American products even though they cost more? If they already cost more, how much more are you willing to pay so the workers can have a "living wage"?
I personally do not care who you marry, nor do I care who you sleep with. I agree that is a stupid issue.
I hate abortion, but I do think it should stay legal.
Let me ask you this, do you know how a light switch works? If not, then that is what we need to also teach in school. Not how the rich do not pay enough in taxes. My youngest son asked me that last night. He is twelve.
Do you kids still live at home? Do you expect them to live their own lives? Make their own way? Yes we all can use some help. But not help for the rest of their lives and their children's lives.
Their is plenty of corporate money and influence happening right now. I agree we should stop it.
I buy American when ever I can. I support the smaller stores as much as I can too. I do not go to Walmart or Rainbow, or Cub. Companies like that have shut down the small businesses.
A safety net does not encourage dependency.
American products don't cost more. I can get a well-made stainless steel spatula made in the USA for about $1.70. I can get a flimsy plastic spatula made in China for about the same price at Wal*Mart.
"A safety net does not encourage dependency."
This statement is laughably false. While it may apply for some people, it certainly doesn't apply to everyone.
The fact is that people who are in the safety net ARE dependent on others. As for "encouraging dependency" you'd have to look at the various laws involved with that particular safety net.
If you are on section 8 housing and are given a voucher of $1000/mo and your family income goes up $1000/mo from the end of that limit and the government takes that money dollar-for-dollar to pay for the rent, people are going to be encouraged NOT to work and earn that $1000 because it is gone anyway.
Do you not understand how these welfare programs work? When people get their tax refund back they are told to spend it because if they have more than a certain amount in the bank, the welfare office will add that number in the calculation towards benefits. I bet you don't even know that because YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!!
Not A Drone: No, they don't understand how the 'welfare' works. I am seriously considering throwing myself onto the welfare, I would live better if I did and I wouldn't have to work and all my needs would be covered.
Thats not encouraging dependency. That's just punishing success, the same argument we hear trumpeted out for increasing taxes on the wealthy.
Hummingbird: When you complete your taxes, do you check the box for additional taxes to be donated to the Federal Government? I think not.
Are you so naive that you believe that if we did not have a strong military, that other countries would be coming for us either physically or financially? The US Constitution requires the Congress to support a military. Nowhere in the Constitution does the Feds have the authority to take my money and give it to an individual who refuses to obtain and education, work, or restrain themselves from having children they can not afford. It is good to support the needy. However, that is a local matter for benevolence groups collecting charitable gifts. I have worked with families in subsidized housing off and on for years. The "rule" is turn 16 have a baby and get an apartment of your own. I know of many families who are 4th and 5th generation "public housing squatters". Assistance should be to assist someone to improve themselves. It should never be "my paycheck".
Jesus was a liberal? Where did that come from? Jesus was and is God. He can be neither liberal or conservative. He said to give to the needy. He also said "he who will not work shall not eat". Regarding Stand Your Ground law in FL: Jesus told Peter to take a small sword to defend himself against thieves. Sounds like Gun Rights to me.
He said to care for the widows, but allow the young widows to care for themselves by remarrying. Combination of liberal and conservative.
Especially during the Easter rememberance of Jesus' death and resurrection, NO ONE SHOULD TRY TO PREEMPT THE TRINITY FOR POLITICAL GAMES. You see God is perfect. His ways are perfect.
Jesus is a liberal Littlehand, and so is GOD, present tense.
Book of Leviticus
9 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest.
10 And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather [every] grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I [am] the LORD your God.
Sounds like God cares about the poor to me.
How does God feel about health care for all?
Luke chapter 10
29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
30 And Jesus answering said, A certain [man] went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded [him], and departed, leaving [him] half dead.
31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked [on him], and passed by on the other side.
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion [on him],
34 And went to [him], and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave [them] to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
God does NOT want us to stand by and do nothing when our neighbors are suffering because greed.
How does God feel about greed over money?
Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
There is nothing wrong with material wealth, the accumulation of it is not more important than the quality of peoples lives little hand. Hiding behind God to make your points unassailable is a low and despicable act Little Hand, that applies to anyone who does so. I question your commitment to Christianity. I am not a Christian and I see that.
When MSNBC going to qote a GOP leader talking about Obama policies? Why always negatives about GOP and never about Obama? News or propaganda?
Watermoon, I totally agree with you! I am now and have for a long time been a conservative.
The left wing media and propogandists will never change for anyone no matter how far down
the hill our nation goes!!!
But, but, but... are there any leaders left in the GOP, or are they not all simply (and simplemindedly) stuck on that ugly, lockstep "Just Say No" autopilot mode these days?
And, please, would someone actually crawl past the adolescent rhetoric and define "down the hill" for us?
My reply dudgger is that the "just say no" group has been sending up legislation to the Senate that Senator Reid refuses to bring to the floor. Apparently it is the Democratic Party Senate that is saying NOOOOOO. Even the President's own budget did not receive a single vote in the House. You would think that if the President and the Democrat Party wanted to "do something", they would present a Bill for passage. The reason they do not is that they know that the only way to cut deficits is to cut entitilement spending and they do not want to touch that third rail. "Down the hill"? Maybe you mean "down the road". An old colloquialism meaning to delay to frustrate to indicate one's President and Senate refuses to act on serious problems at the present time.
Here's the basic problem, and it starts with the first sentence:
"President Obama is expected to sharply criticize a budget plan passed by House Republicans". From the start, it's obvious that the President has no intention of giving any form of constructive criticism, or focus on areas of agreement. And before I become a "hater/racist" by default, I don't care which party is presenting a program (in this case a budget), and which party is responding, the response is always the same.
Apparently our elected representatives (House, Senate, and President, Democrats and Republicans) never learned to play nicely in the sandbox of their youth, and so now, they react with hostility, without even a semblance of goodwill, to any action on the part of their opposing party. For that very willingness to criticize one another, they are the folks that we look to to lead our nation. As a lifelong Republican, I look back fondly on the days of Tip O'Neal and Ronald Reagan, two men that disliked each other, and yet, were able to put the dislike on the back burner, and work together.