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Subscribe to RSSThe murder of two U.S. officers inside the Interior Ministry in Kabul by an Afghan soldier over the weekend is raising new questions about the Obama administration’s ability to implement its strategy in Afghanistan.
Defense Secretary Leon Panetta is sure to face tough questions on the U.S. military commitment in Afghanistan when he testifies Tuesday morning before the Senate Budget Committee.
Panetta faced similar questions two weeks ago at a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing from Sen. Susan Collins, R- Maine, who noted that since May of 2007, “Afghan security forces have killed 70 American and allied troops and wounded over a hundred more in 45 separate attacks.”
She noted the devastating effect on American soldiers and Marines -- and their families back home -- when they are “risking their lives to train and assist these Afghan troops only to have some of them turn on them and kill them.”
But in the middle of a presidential campaign there seems to be little room for the GOP contenders to outflank President Barack Obama politically on this issue. In their comments over the weekend GOP contenders commented less on the strategic questions raised by the Afghanistan killings than on Obama’s apology for the inadvertent burning of Korans at a U.S. base near Kabul.
Ambassador Susan Rice talks about the current situation in Afghanistan, whether the attacks on U.S. troops are renewing and whether America needs a speedier exit.
The killing of American soldiers “is the real crime here, not what our soldiers did," said former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum on NBC’s Meet the Press.
"We've made an enormous contribution to help the people there achieve freedom, and for us to be apologizing at a time like this is something which is very difficult for the American people to countenance,” said Republican contender Mitt Romney.
One of the Republican contenders, Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, has long called for the United States to end its mission in Afghanistan.
The weekend’s events “add to a drip-feed of negative news that suggests Afghanistan is an unwinnable quagmire,” said Swarthmore College political scientist Dominic Tierney, author of “How We Fight: Crusades, Quagmires, and the American Way of War.”
He said, “Republicans are berating the administration for apologizing and seeking to tie this into a story of administration weakness.”
But he added, “Republicans are actually fairly ambivalent about Afghanistan. While some Republicans stress the ‘stay the course’ message, there's not much appetite for big government nation-building in the country. Republicans want toughness and resolve, but they're dubious about our capacity to socially engineer Afghanistan into a stable democracy.”
The Obama administration’s case for continued patience was made Sunday on CNN by U.S. ambassador to Afghanistan Ryan Crocker: “This is not the time to decide that we're done here. We have got to redouble our efforts. We've got to create a situation in which al-Qaida is not coming back.”
Following seven days of unrelenting anger over the burning of Qurans, there was a fresh attack outside an airport in Afghanistan. NBC's Atia Abawi reports.
Last June, Obama said that the 33,000 U.S. “surge” force that he ordered to Afghanistan would be removed by the end of this summer. That would leave 68,000 U.S. troops remaining in Afghanistan. Obama has set 2014 as the end date for the U.S. combat mission in Afghanistan.
But Anthony Cordesman, a longtime military strategist at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, said the bigger issues are the shifting U.S. strategy and the inherent difficulty of reshaping Afghanistan.
“At this point in time, we don’t have any particularly good or coherent options. The reason isn’t the Obama administration,” he said, but rather that the United States and its allies are confronting “the complexity of trying to transform the Afghan political structure and economy. This is not something you can blame on the Congress, the (American) people or the (Obama) administration.”
But, he added, the Obama administration has been “trying to rush the development of Afghan forces far too quickly” and that “we’re trying now to get more and more done by 2014, constantly changing the program as we cut the money and as there are more questions about how many troops are going to be actually supporting the Afghans.”
He said, “ultimately all of this does center around U.S. money” and the Obama administration’s Fiscal Year 2013 budget request has not “defined what that request is supposed to buy – although basically it cuts the level of spending in half, which means whatever your strategy was a year ago isn’t your strategy now.”
The United States and its NATO allies have scheduled a summit meeting in Chicago in May to agree on plans for Afghanistan’s future.
The Obama administration, Cordesman said, is “talking about transition, but until the Chicago conference takes place, you don’t have even the rough goal as to what ‘transition’ means, how much it will cost, what conditions the Afghans will meet, or what level of funding and support they are going to get.”
He noted that, in addition to other uncertainties, “You don’t have a strategy that deals with the Pakistani sanctuaries – you don’t even know what level of support you can get from the Pakistanis ... .”
As for the fratricide attacks on U.S. soldiers by Afghans whom they are trying to train, Panetta said in his testimony two weeks ago that “better background checks” could help “ensure that these incidents are cut back.” He said the fratricide attacks are “not something that’s endemic. It is sporadic.”
Marine Gen. James Mattis, the head of U.S. Central Command, told Sen. Collins in a letter last week that “personal attacks make up a vast majority” of the fratricide incidents in which Afghan soldiers attack U.S. soldiers and Marines. “Most attackers are spurred by personal motivations, grievances, or emotions and act with little or no premeditation,” he said.
Cordesman noted, “The reality is that 18- to 20-year olds are not the natural ambassadors of a given culture –particularly if you give them guns and put them under intense stress.”
But Cordesman said, apart from stress or personal vendettas, “there will be infiltration (of U.S. forces in Afghanistan), not just incidents.” Infiltration of U.S. and other international forces is “one of the logical strategies for all of the insurgents to pursue” because “even a few bombings or killings can trigger all kinds of political reactions, as we’ve just seen.”
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The "unwinnable quagmire" quote is a fair assessment of the past, present, and future. It is the ordinary Afghan people who need to be behind any re-shaping of their society. Ten years, billions of dollars, thousands of lives lost and tens of thousands maimed for life has proven insufficient. There is NO DISHONOR in folding a losing poker hand, and it is time for NATO and the NGO's (earning their pennies for heaven) to fold up their tents and leave. Perhaps in the next century, the ordinary Afghan people will want to escape the misery imposed by adherence to a seventh-century religious cult of hatred and oppression of women.
Yeah I've got a question Mr. Panetta.
Why are we in Afghanistan?
hungurymongoose Your asking the wrong guy. The guy you need to ask lives in a Dallas suburb. You know jr bush.
Wrong guy... ask dubya.
This is going to be a pivotal political issue. Barack better get in front of this or he is going to get run over.
The whole situation is EERIE:
Do you call it 'burning by accident' WHEN INSIDE OUR MILITARY NOTHING HAPPEN IF YOU DON'T WANT TO HAPPEN ? Our military is methodical even to made a bed.
Why our military DISCLOSE THIS SO-CALLED ' BURNING by ACCIDENT ? huh ?
HOW CAN BENEFIT FROM THE PRESENT SITUATION ?
No, he lives in the White house. Bush isn't in office anymore, welcome back from the 3 year coma.
Interesting how one general states unequivocably that 'fratricide murders' are the primary causes of death for many troops and goes on to state that the 'training' of said 'soldiers' isn't working out as planned. Ya think?
Then, in the same article is the truth, which is that Obama's administration doesn't have a clue about what to do, that money is the key issue with decisions about Afghanistan and the troop 'surge' that he created wasn't having the effect they had hoped it would have.
Getting rid of Al Quaeda? Really? Guess the Arab Spring in Libya and Egypt happened to harm Al Quaeda, right? Now Hillary is on record as stating that said Arab Spring wasn't going so well. Guess what, Hillary, there were lots of people who saw this coming and they were shouted down for being racists, anti-democracy, etc. Now, those people are being proved right and Al Quaeda is getting stronger by the day. Ditto the Muslim Brotherhood which is making strong inroads into the Syrian revolt. Guess our Secretary of Defense and her boss need to check into reality occassionally.
As to the burning of the Korans, that was downright stupid, especially if Afghani's were the one's to take the trash out. As to the idea that the military knows what it is doing? Please. Military Intelligence is an oxymoron and such stupidity is generally ordered and created by an officer or other 'higher up.'
These dopes don't get it, do they? They just don't get it. Afghanistan will NEVER be a democracy. It will NEVER, EVER be more than a filthy fifth century cesspool overridden by primitive barbarians, who will NEVER utilize "democracy" any more than a catfish will utilize a bicycle.
Socially engineering Afghanistan my a$$. The only thing efficiently engineered in this pile of rocks is the meat grinder.
Mygirl.. Hillary is the talking head for the administration. The sad part is that she'd probably beat Obama if she was running this time.
I did like her response in an interview the other night (don't remember what reporter). The reporter asked her why she was just sitting by letting so many helpless women and children be slaughtered in Syria. Her response was, would you have the administration arm al Qaeda and other terrorist groups with heavy weapons that would almost certainly be used against American military personnel and civilians? Had she been in charge things likely would have went much differently in the Arab spring.
Smitty and Stupid,
Last time I checked Bush left the office three years ago...try to keep up...I know it is tough since you are both blindfolded and trying to play pin the blame on Bush. Grow up and start holding the current holders of all offices for the policies of TODAY not three years ago.
Hotticket,
Your the one who does not get it. For over two years the Democrats had unfettered control of both houses and the presidency. They are responsible for all current policy. The failure to act is their responsibility. Now before you blame Bush..tell me what office he has to effect policy TODAY. None, zip, zilch, Nada... the current leaders of BOTH parties still run the war and the deficit spending (they can't be bothered to pass a budget) they are too busy seeking re-election. Stop the miss direction and get real about the issues of TODAY.
For some time I have been of the opinion that we needed to stay. It was our responsibility to help them after we had ousted the Taliban.
However, I now feel that we have spent enough time to teach them to protect themselves, spent enough money to prop them up to give them a chance and gone as far as we can go. It is time to just pack it up and come home! What happens now is up to them.......
islam is the evil of the next century
why are islamists throwing hundreds of "holy" qurans in a sewage canal???
This mess is unwinable due to the fact that this is NOT a war. Real war means to kill as many people as possible until one side loses. If you are not killing them all,then you are not at war.
Everyone write your Senators, Reps and POTUS... end this war now!!! No more American blood!!! No more billions of US dollars!!! Ten years is enough!!! Americans unite!!!
Bush has been gone how long now and you still can't blame the man sitting in office for anything. Well when he is voted out for piss poor performance, who will you blame then? There comes a point when a man has to take responsibility for his actions, when will he take his and
quit hiding behind the bush?
Bush put us in Afghanistan, as he should have! BRAVO BUSH!!! We needed to go to war to protect out civilians and our monumental architecture from terrorism.
Obama is keeping the heat on the terrorists, GO SEALS GO OBAMA!!! We are trying to change the medeival minds of a bellicose people who follow a bellicose doctrine. Unfortunately the sick mind is far more apt to kill or silence the healthy mind than the converse, and Afghanistan remains a quagmire of religious coercion, and assasination.
The war in Aghanistan is neither Bush nor Obama's fault, they are there with the men and women who serve, to protect those of us who are not.
Not as stupid as yo uthink "I've got a question Mr. Panetta.Why are we in Afghanistan?.......Wrong guy... ask dubya."
It was Obama that 'Doubled down' in Afghanistan, and called it 'the good war'. Bush won the 'other war' in Iraq. Obama's just afraid that he will go down as the President that 'lost' the war in Afghanistan.
Obama is soon to replace Carter as the 'Worst President Ever' by all objective measures. Ironically, the much maligned Bush has the second best economic record in the last 40 years when using the 'Misery Index' as the gauge - only narrowly losing out to Bill Clinton.
PS - The 'Misery Index' (combined average Unemployment and Inflation Rates) was used by Jimmy Carter to get elected in 1976 - ironically, Carter has the worst record in the last 70 years.
Here's the link to the 'Misery Index' - Look under Average by President;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misery_index_%28economics%29
we should load all our weapons and leave...while doing a carpet bombing on the way out...and drop leaflets saying if you are alive and can read this...we miss ya...
Perhaps the following from the article says it all...
Aren't the afghans invited? If not, why not?
When are you liberals going to get over it. Let me say it loud and clear, GEORGE BUSH IS NOT THE PRESIDENT. Wake up and smell the coffee, get your head out of the sand. I don't care what you think or say, it's Obama's war now.
A tough grilling about what the US is continuing to do in Afghanistan is in order. Hopefully we won't hear any more lame answers such as "To protect our freedom" or "To prevent terrorists from using it as a base for further attacks..." At least that was what we were told when Bush was in office- empty rhetoric that told us nothing about the real reasons for being there.
This article brought up several good points as to why we should no longer be there- e.g. soldiers training Afghans who ultimately turns on them; trying to confront the "complexity" of the Afghan culture realizing that there is nothing the US or the coalition can do to change them from the Stone Age mentality that governs them; and accepting that 20-year old soldiers & marines are not "natural ambassadors" and placing them under such stress leads to some bad outcomes such as Koran burnings, posing for pictures by dead taliban, etc.
This goose is way overcooked- time to bring it out of the oven and cut our losses. Let's bring it home sooner than Obama's 2014 date and leave this forsaken part of the world behind for good. Enough is enough.
NATO saw 9/11 as an attack on them as well. We are in afghanistan to make the world a better place and prevent an islamic jihadist training country. at first this was a noble cause for the free world....but when you have crooked pakistan on one side and murderous iran on the other the point is lost.
we should leave and bomb mullah omar from the air until he is dead. no doubt that when he is killed another will pop up and this will go on and on.....until they are all dead or until the free world is.
karzai is a dead man when we leave....and maybe thats the way it should be.
...but we will be fighting the taliban no matter what we say to them now...our biggest need is to get the return of our army POW. my guess is after that we will kill the taliban by giving money to afghan warlords and mercs.
i truly feel sadness for the dead and wounded coalition soldiers families to leave afghanistan the way we will leave. its not a lost effort....but an unwinnable place.
when 9/11 happened...the day after, we all supported getting rid of all terror forever. our military and our intel agencies have evolved to this kind of fighting. but to rid the world of all islamic terror is a pipe dream, at best we can only kill the leaders and try to watch out for the other attacks...and disrupt them before they can pull one off. they can hit and miss....we cant miss once, and that is the hardest part.
when we do leave it will be hard to watch the taliban re-take city after city, village after village....but we are going to have to watch.
or maybe the afghan national army will stand on its own and fight them back to west pakistan when we leave, but i doubt it.
the United States and its allies are confronting “the complexity of trying to transform the Afghan political structure and economy. This is not something you can blame on the Congress, the (American) people or the (Obama) administration.”
NO ONE BLAMING O FOR THAT. APPOLOGIZING AND DISRESPECTING THE MURDERED SOLDIERS AND THE MILITARY AND USA ARE UNEXCEPTABLE. HUNT THE THUGS DOWN AND WATER BOARD THEM LIKE A REAL MAN WOULD!
Hmmm... George W. Bush is not the president. However, Mr. Bush and his administration did have just a tad to do with the U.S. getting involved with that draconian society.
The present White House occupant, President Obama, needs to take very punitive, decisive action now, not next week.
If it were up to me, I would arrange a mass Muslim holy book burning. Spray them with pig's blood, and then set fire to thousands of those books.
Then, I would order immediate withdrawal of all U.S. troops - with the instructions that they burn or blow up everything they have to leave behind.
If demonstrators gather to protest the burning of the Muslim holy books, they should be told to disperse or risk being shot. If they did not leave, open fire on them and kill as many of them as possible.
We are dealing with a feudal society, on an unequal playing field. The only thing they understand is violence - among themselves and to "meddling foreigners."
The United States cannot drag a draconian feudal society of 300 to 500 years ago into the year 2012. Not too long ago, the Soviet Union learned about that, at great cost of troops and rubles.
We need to leave now, leave nothing behind, except ashes and the dead bodies of Muslim extremists.
hammerhead--Obama is keeping the heat on the terrorists
you are kidding me right. if you think appologizing is heat then you've never had a good ass whipping and need one.
Hotticket--
and dems had control of both houses for 3 yrs before obama office. what can you not comprehend about that? that it's not all bush fault? you and o are a fraud and disgrace. always someone elses fault. and someone else needs to pay ( in your mind)
Apparently we have a surplus of Drones here in the US, atleast enough to spy on all the sheeple here...........................Re - Arm them with some "Fireworks" and send them back to the "Sand Box"......
if the british could not win ,and the russian bear could not crush these 9th century nut jobs what makes the current president thinks he can
these 9th century whackos have no sense of living,they firmly believe in death,and the 72 virgins in the after life,you can not expect them to or believe in anything that has to do with the infidels,or their culture,just won,t happen,if you want to fight them then either you drone them to hell or arm a rival group of nut cases in afganistan
you can't bomb them back to the stone age,because they are already there. we are fighting the enemy,as is their custom,the saudi's have us fighting their wars,and in the end we are getting back-stabbed by these other fanatics,we should have cut a deal with Saddem,and let him roll his tanks in to this rats nest where most of the 9-11 cowards were born,we killed the wrong fanantic,at least he had a idea of the 21st century,better to play with the devil we know,then the devil we don't
@stan1952
The british couldn't win at the time because they had over stretched their military potenial too far. The russian bear wasn't really a bear, all it took was a little help from us and some of our technology and they defeated the russian bear, same thing happened to them in WWII look up when the mouse that roared, russia got crushed. Our president, not even him alone, but all our politicans and commanders are useless cowards. We don't have any George Pattons, Douglas MacArthurs, Chesty Pullers, Dwight Eisenhowers, Franklin Roosevelts. This war could be won and any war after that, but we have to take the handcuffs off, we have to fight how we did in WWII. Like Roosevelt did, he told his commanders that the end objective he wants is victory, he didn't care how it was accomplished, he just wanted it done. If we can find political leaders and commanders we once had, we would have nothing to worry about in this world, not only would we not lose any war, but our nation would be in great shape. It's the leadership and tactics used today is the reason why we are losing. Also you have the bleeding heart liberals that will always argue that those were different times, different enemies, I will argue back yeah they were different, they were a more evolved, more civilized enemy. They were great countries at the time. So if we fought civilized enemies like that then what do you think our tactics should be for an uncivilized population? Former 11B, Big Red 1, had to follow the tactics we use today and it was a pain in the rear.
DUH! And look at the mess and problems he created over his eight years and left for Obama to clean up.
Are you taking the position that President Obama should be able to fix it all in three years? or four years? or five or eight?
Republicans created such a disaster during 2001 -2009 that some of it may NEVER get repaired, but President Obama has done an admirable job of addressing and correcting what the Republican-Tea people left him, even in the face of obsinate obstructionism. He has accomplished MUCH these past three years, and that is a FACT; could have done even more if the TEA-GOP people were not in Washington D.C. We citizens see and KNOW that to be true, regardless of your incessant negative ranting and American President bashing.
Keep trying the same old, tired spin, talking points and sales pitches: i.e. "Bush left office 3 years ago so Obama owns these problems." "Obama is a failure." "Obama is not a citizen, has no birth certificate." "Obama apologized to the Muslims and has weakened America." etc., etc., etc. They are RNC-TEA LIES, they are obvious manufactured GOP-TEA non-troversies and in reality just attacks on America and her Chief of State. TRUTH, pure and simple, and undeniable no matter how much you spin, twist, explain, justify, and make excuses to try to sell the American people that facts are not really facts and truth is not truth. It becomes very obvious that you are desperate and have nothing except these same, old, worn out half truths and lies, and even you realize that there is nothing left except to continuously rant to the voters and ceaselessly pound the lies in therir heads, so maybe they will eventually get tired and give up to you. May have worked in 2000, 2004, and 2010, but eventually we do catch on and recognize your big dollar funded con for what it is. WE WILL NOT GO FOR IT IN NOVEMBER!! You are through, and OUT of Washington. We are tired of having this great nation raped by greedy Republican-Tea politicians and we are sick of giving the likes of Rove, Norquist, Koch brothers, and other 1%ers our dollars. That is the way it is, like it or not, so save your trite RNC-TEA talking points and knee-jerk responses - we have already heard them all before, found them to be un-true, and are too busy addressing the important issues of this nation, creating true "hope and change" to be hindered or obstructed by puny GOP manufactured trivialities.
Allow me to borrow a quote you RWNJ's should like:
"You are either with us or you are against us."
So it is getting time for YOU to choose: Either America or the 1%. Your choice.
@Not as stupid as you think
I do believe you are as stupid as we think. Look it's hard for you liberals and obama lovers to pull your head's out of his rear, but look at the facts and stats. Your type had control in Bush's last two years and didn't do anything, then add another two years of complete control again and still nothing, even with control of the senate you all still do nothing. Again just as stupid as we think no as we know you are.
Have a GREAT DAY.
trh, I am not a liberal nor a conservative either. You cannot bring how the war today is fought compared to how war was waged in WWII. No comparison in the least. Ever changing strategies, no uniforms, no set objectives-take that hill and have complete control over supplies ect. I respect your viewpoint and your service but NO conventional army could win this type of conflict. Thi
Stupid is the perfect example of if you can't make a point, then dazzle them with rhetoric.
Obama and company would be well advised that rhetoric has its purpose in spin and diplomacy, but without a written doable plan of action there will be no results.
@stonepipe
Yes you can fight war today like we did in WWII. If you read my last post our President at the time all he did was tell his commanders victory is the only option, don't care how you get it done just do it. We are soldiers in their with their hands tied behind their back, just like I was and trying to fight a population that will put everything they have against us. That is why it's not winnable, not becaus their are no uniforms, no set objectives ( the only objective there should be is victory) Just look what we did to Germany and Japan, do you think we cared about their civilian population, no our tactic was bomb them back into the stone age, because if you can get the popultaion to submit to the destruction we a placing on them, their forces will lose steam, heart, passion and will to fight. If the population doesn't lose heart and submit, then you have no other choice then to continue saturation bombing of all areas. They might not end up submitting but their population will most likely cease to exist. Again if that fails then you pull out and do what we did to Japan, instead of losing an estimated 2 million American Soldiers in taking Japan we ended it with 2 bombs and that was the end of that. There is nothing saying we can't use them, no other country has the ability to argue with us on that, and won't dare think about trying to get nasty with us. We do that yes we will look like monsters but the world will sit down, keep their mouth shut and it will pass.
Wouldn't it have been better if all that money that was used on these conflicts abroad, was used to secure all our borders- land, sea and air and to invest the remainder in rebuilding our country's infrastructure etc instead?
Imagine if the defense industry had been working on new technology to secure our borders and to improve our country? Imagine what this country would be like now....
Why not change from war time technology to peace time technology and a safeguard our own county technology?
It is time to bring our Armed Forces and other folks home. Training people to be better at shooting you in the back is just idiotic imo. No wonder our soldiers are stressed. Imagine trying to sleep with one eye open or while you are training some guy how to use a gun or set the sights, to wonder if the trainee is going to turn and set the sights on you as the target?
Whether these folks are tribal leaders and or Taliban, it is their country and their people. When the people of Afghanistan are ready to turn on these tribal leaders/taliban or whatever, they will do so and will be ready to accept the consequences of their actions imo.
Change cannot be brought about unless the people who are to change want to change and are working at /willing to put their lives on the line to effect said change imo.
It is obvious that the people in the masses are not the ones being helped as their lot hasn't changed, only the rich who are getting richer, busily taking the millions of dollars out of that country, and the various entities who are making out like bandits even as we pour our monies down a bottomless pit and put our soldiers in harms way for nothing.
Time to bring our people/soldiers and others home even earlier than 2014. The ringleaders of the terrorists - OBL, have been taken out. Let's not create more terrorists by staying longer or train them to be better gunmen and better at planning terror attacks on our soldiers and other peace keepers.
Plus leave no technology or weapons behind. It they want weapons let them purchase it from Russia etc.
By the way some change has already taken place. The seeds have already been planted, thus folks in the masses already have been able to witness another point of view. It is for them to either discard the non-military education that has been given, or to continue to embrace it and keep working at it. Now some children have learned to read and write, and how to use some technology, so they will be able to read etc to their parents/families in private. That is how real change takes place, quietly and behind the scenes. Literacy is the key. They may even be able to read their Holy Book for themselves instead of depending on these religious entities who may have their own agenda.
Peace... All home by 2013....
PS. it was noted that it was only the Mongols who conquered Afghanistan if I am not mistaken. No one since then. Perhaps also due to the terrain etc. But then not everyone wants to kill every man woman and child and raze a country to the ground, so there is that....
The Obama administration’s case for continued patience was made Sunday on CNN by U.S. ambassador to Afghanistan Ryan Crocker: “This is not the time to decide that we're done here. We have got to redouble our efforts. We've got to create a situation in which al-Qaida is not coming back.”
How do you do that? How do you create a situation in which you can be certain that al-Qaida is not coming back?
What does the term "redouble our efforts" mean?
Are we prepared to annex Afghanistan as the 51st state?
Afghanistan is one of the issues that keeps the left from being more enthusiastic about Obama's foreign policies than they are. And it's an important one. Exactly what are his plans? Or, to put it another way, when can we finally get out of that hellish place?
Redouble our efforts with 1/2 of last years budget...yeah that's going to work!
The Romans TRY IT AND FAILED.
The Russians TRY IT AND FAILED.
WHAT IS THE BEST FOR US ?
no obama is the best and only answer
The British tried it under a general named Elphinstone in the 19th century. They failed too.
Its amazing to me the amount of people who weigh in on these issues with little or no military experience or background.
The Romans and Russians NEVER tried to recruit and train a national police force, army, air force and border patrol.
The Romans and Russians NEVER had an initial victory in this country the way we did with ODA teams, coalition forces and indigenous allies. Why we couldnt sustain this is due to a change in TTP.
The Romans and Russians NEVER targeted a Saudi command and control element known as Al Qaeda and its specific integrated Taliban hosts but instead attempted to take on the warrior culture of Afghanistan proper, the Mujaheddin.
Panetta is doing a fine job of filling the shoes left by Robert McNamara, Melvin Laird, Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney.
panetta needs to tell o to stay away and keep his beligerent mouth shut. i swear when he talks all i hear is ignorance. smile, shut up, look good maybe no one will notice.
Well, you would recognize ignorance when you see it.
There is no question at all about what to do. Bring'em our people AND equipment home and let the Taliban have the people. When the Afghani's are ready to leave the sixth century, the Taliban will disappear. It's pretty simple.
But RossH, we can't throw all those poor, elderly and disabled afghans under the bus that way. <end sarcasm>
At least isn't that what the liberal/progressives promotes? Sometimes one just has to realize that not everyone wants help.
The mission in Afghanistan was to kill OBL. That has been accomplished, now pull out.
We are clearly not winning the hearts and minds of these folks who are basically living in a stone age culture, and who believe in Islamic hobgoblins. It is not worth a single American's life to continue the foolish no-win strategy of the Obama Administration.
letusreason Please tell me again. What was that foolish strategy the man who started that war have? Did he even have a strategy?
Smitty, no kidding, here I thought Obama was in the white house.
Obama is in the White House and he is cleaning up the mess left by the prior administration. If we left Afganistan as soon as Obama stepped into office the middle east would be swarming again with taliban! Also, our moral code will not have us destroy a country and leave its residents homeless, starving, and even more improverished than when we got there. Americans need to wake up and see that Bush is the one who did this and we DO have a moral code to follow. Unfortunately, the officers of that base did not have a moral code when they decided to burn holy books in a country that values their religion above all else! Even an idiot would know what kind of reaction this would cause; hence, they should have sent any and all contraband to the US, examine it, document the evidence, then destroy it ON US SOIL! Therefore, this disaster would have been adverted with far less lives risked!
Obama is cleaning up exactly how. unemplyment is at 9% and gas is going to $5 a gallon. the economy is in the crapper and we owe twice the money printed.
OUR MORAL CODE! Thanks i needed a laugh.
HItler committed suicide in April 1945, the USSR, fell in 1991. exactly why do we have troops in deucheland?
The 1953 Iranian coup d'état (known in Iran as the 28 Mordad coup[3]) was the overthrow of the democratically elected government of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh on 19 August 1953, orchestrated by the intelligence agencies of the United Kingdom and the United States under the name TPAJAX Project.[4] The coup saw the transition of Mohammad-Rezā Shāh Pahlavi from a constitutional monarch to an authoritarian one who relied heavily on United States support to hold on to power until his own overthrow in February 1979.[5]
In 1954, the American government successfully orchestrated the overthrow of the
freely elected government of Jacobo Arbenz in Guatemala and replaced him with
their hand-picked alternative. The point being that the american owners of the banana plantations were going to lose their land and bananas because the govt was taking land and giving it to the poor. The sandanistas eventually took back the govt in the 70's.
In 1962 President Kennedy, sent a general to south vietnam to see how they were fighting against north vietnam. the general came back with the souths govt is corrupt and the souths army could not fight its way into walmart during a sale. Kennedy refused to commit us troops. course kennedy got assassinated and when a US navy ship drove into the norths waters the north vietnames navy attacked with gun boats scraping the paint. the next day flights of air craft from our aircraft carriers started bombing north vietnam. then Lyndon Bainesed his Johnson and sent in combat troops to fight for the south vietnamese army. 58,226 dead soldiers later we left. the north attacked the south and won. vietnam is now a communist country because they wanted to be. which they wanted to be that back in 1964.
And lastly when the peanut farmer quit sending aid to iran the shah got throwed out and we got the iranian theocracy, soon with nuclear weapons.
Code of morals? exactly where. the United States overthrows any country that bothers whatever the snake department feels we need at the time. and dont forget the bay of pigs invasion, where we trained cubans to invade cuba and over throw ole fidel.
Sorry kid but you need to read up in some history books and quit listening to the BS coming outa washingrton.
So tell me again exactly why has obama not got the troops out of a war that cant possibly be won. arabs understand the pecking order, whos got the biggest gun and can kill the most of his opponets, wins the election. So why when obama ran on a campaign to get out the wars are we still in afghanistan? washington BS. And you fell for it.
Let these people earn the type of government they deserve. Quit writing them checks. Bring home everyone and work on our problems here first.
10 years of that hell hole sucking us dry. Until they can, as a nation of people, instead of a culture of powerful war lords, want to live and prosper, they need to want to be a nation instead of a clan structure.
Again, stop the flow of money to them and also to Pakistan. That's another group that has it's corrupt hands out for money to prop up what ever flavor of the month holds the key to the treasury there. They housed OBL and we're still talking to them? Still sending them money we can ill afford.
No more dead Americans. Bring them all back now. Enough is enough.
The reason we invaded Afghanistan -- aside from the fact that we were all enraged -- was to eliminate al Qaeda. Mission now accomplished. We killed OBL. We toppled the Taliban. We established an imitation Democracy, now corrupt.
As one of the generals in charge said, "We will have given them the best chance they've ever had."
However, we can't very well just pull out and leave it at that. The country is one bomb crater after another. But moral considerations aside, it's necessary to protect American interests by leaving the government and other agencies full of moles who will provide human intelligence reliably.
Nobody cares about Afghanistan. There's nothing there that anyone else wants except land. But we don't want any more terrorist training camps on that land.
we should stop sending billions to our enemies like pakistan,egypt,who i believe in the coming months will spiral out of control,and renounce all agreements with us and israel,no more american blood and money for these nut jobs. if we have the guts we stand by our friends in the middle east,with military aid,and political support. you can not trustb a people who believes in death to any country,that does share it's beliefs,and their lunitic ideas. there are three dangerous countries,saudia arabia,iran,and egypt if we haved learned anything about the middle east,is that the israelieswill attack first,and move into lebanon,to crush once and for all hezzballa
"ultimately all of this does center around U.S. money” and the Obama administration’s Fiscal Year 2013 budget request has not “defined what that request is supposed to buy – although basically it cuts the level of spending in half, which means whatever your strategy was a year ago isn’t your strategy now.”
An Obama budget? Wasn't his last one voted down by almost the entire senate (including almost all Democrats?) Lots of uncertainties here and that's exactly what our military doesn't need... I don't envy Panetta even though we are almost polar opposites politically. I do believe him to be sincere in his desire to do the right thing by the military and I wasn't too upset with him being placed in charge of the CIA. His boss, on the other hand...
There is NO HARD QUESTION. Bring our TROOPS HOME. Stop giving them MONEY. The next time they ask for help. Drop a bunch of Koran Bibles on them and tell them to pray to Allah to get rid of the Taliban.
Yep, NO BRAINER. They don't want us there---WE sure as hell don't want to be there, Whats the problem? Pull out, STOP the flow of funds. Let them have their civil wars and kill each other, it shouldn't be our problem! How many times a day do ya think they burn American flags?? FUGGEM
I agree with the blue demon!!!!!....
Where do you folks think their war against the modern world will end? We can't stay, we can't leave. We shouldn't have gone in, but we had to! We want to be us, but to win, we may have to become them.
Would have been nice if we'd had this discussion BEFORE we sent in the troops, and spent all the money. But, real men do what they have to do, they don't think about it. You know for sure that W prays every day, and thanks god he doesn't have to deal with the mess he and Cheney, and Rumsfeld made.
I think it is time for Obama to make an actual decision, though. This time, no "lets take a poll and see what everybody thinks", and come out compromising. Stand up, gather your wits about you, and tell us what to do, Mr. President. Come up with an actual plan, of your own, stare down the foul mouthed right wingers, with an icy look that says "STFU", and give the order. Harry Truman said it best. Barrack Obama, the buck stops at your desk.
big ed--- stare down the foul mouthed right wingers?
that funny...that's the main detail that gives ya'll away on here besides your misery/unhappiness/anger. why are ya'll so unhappy ALL the time
actually, I think you need to be asking dick cheney...he was the one in charge.. and still profitting from it , I might add
Thank you.
Mic,
I noticed the very important word WAS. Since the last election who is large in charge and responsible? Any current resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and the members of both houses. If you want results hold them all accountable the next two election cycles. After a good house cleaning someone might get a clue.
Destroy the poppy crops and leave.
They already tried that..........
Since the last story was taken down right after I made this post, I will post it to this story...nothing to do with Afghanistan.
Why people dislike obama.
1.How about 'fast and furious', the arming of mexican drug cartels in aspirations that more stringent gun control laws could be implemented in the US
2. Bypassing congressional vote and going to the UN to conduct military operations in libya and remember "no boots on the ground", when in fact we have 12k troops there now, google "american troops in Libya"
3. The insistence of a clause in NDAA for the authority to declare martial law. Martial law if ever implemented effectively makes the constitution worthless and you have no rights whatsoever. I am a little afraid to say on a public forum what citizens 100 years ago would have done to people who usurp the constitution like this. Every legislator who signed his name on this bill should be impeached,..and that is nearly every one of them.
4. Google "obama gives 7 Alaskan islands to Russia". Last week Obama gave away 7 Alaskan islands to Russia and the territorial waters and oil rich sea beds that surround them, again bypassing a Congressional vote and also against the will of the Alaskan state in a supposed secret deal that no one knows what we received in return. Why doesn't our mainstream media cover this? What kind of relationship does Obama have with the Russians that we aren't aware of?,....these are some very good questions.
5. Assasination of 3 American citizens without ever having a day in court, denying their rights of due process, legal council, or to be faced by their accusers. We know they are terrorists though, because Obama said so!
I wont even go into all these new laws of declaring American citizens terrorists, to be indefinately detained, denied due process, and to be held on secret evidence. I seen an FBI poster the other day that said an American carrying a pocket constitution "could possibly" be a terrorist. Now we are soon going to have 30k drones hovering in our skies, monitoring our every move. This is right out of a sci-fi thriller and I can't even imagine what that will be like. This isn't even the country anymore that I risked my life for when I took the oath to support and defend the constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic, which, by the way, every legislator and law enforcement officer took a similar oath.
I am really amazed that I even have to explain these things to people who call theirselves Americans and all I can say is that the flouride must really have a significant effect in certain individuals.
Randy: Yup, however you must remember that the media is still in love with Obama and they wouldn't tell the truth if it killed them. They will make excuses for him for eternity and his loyal followers will continue to blame Bush as an excuse for Obama's ineptitude.
Decided to research the above claims by Randy via reputable sources.. Some I had read in the news and some not.
Fast and Furious did receive minimal news attention, even though it was confirmed that a federal agent was killed by weapons supplied because of the government program. It was approved by high ranking officials who were minimally punished for approving giving weapons to Mexican drug dealers and then trying to keep it quiet.
The US has almost always admitted to killing US citizens claimed as traitors, enemy combatants, etc.. What makes the current change different? Past presidents have reserved the right to limit such killings to declared war zones (Such as those killed fighting for Germany in WWII in Europe). Obama expanded that war zone to include any country outside the US, as part of the war on terror. No trial or guilty verdict is required.
USA Today and others report 16 US troops in Libya (admitted by Leon Panetta), haven't heard MSNBC report any. As far as the 12,000 - There has been no official confirmation of US troops but there has been confirmation of UN troops and some speculation that the US troops may be there under the UN's flag, thus not technically US boots but UN boots on the ground. MSNBC has reported many other American governmental personnel on the ground in Libya.
The 7 islands (some of which are reportedly in areas rich with oil) were given to Russia (by the US State Dept) as part of a boundary agreement settlement. The islands mostly unoccupied are closer to Russia than Alaska but some previously had been contested. The largest Wrangel Island has most always been considered a Russian island, but the US has had a military arctic expeditionary force there in the past, along with other countries. Russia currently occupies the island militarily and the US hasn't disputed it. The biggest concern over finally agreeing on the boundary and thus the islands being given away is oil related and from environmental groups who now fear that Russia will open them up to drilling in the Arctic. The media really hasn't reported it. No reports on what if anything the US received as part of the boundary agreement.
So all in all most of the statements above by Randy do have at least some supportable facts.
m
jaun lopez .. what i dropped on them wouldn't resemble BOOKS
Mcjagger, I agree with you whole heartedly. friend of mine who died recently was in viet nam door gunner in a U1H1. They had free fire zones. Thats were the enemy was not. then they had no fire zones. that was generally where the enemy was. since he was not allowed to fire his 60, he would collect bags of dung from the barrels, put it in nice bags and drop it in the no fire zones. never knew if he hit anyone, but he was always hoping to hear of a load full in the face of a nice north vietnamese regular.
The freefire zones I was in were indeed freefire. If you were there, you were dead because we killed you! That makes for a nice story from someone repeating it 40 years later with no proof. I can say what I say with authority because I was there and was part of the killing!
"With Panetta facing Senate panel, new questions on Afghan future"
simple answer Primary objective accomplished now get the f*** out of there! our nation is only becoming weaker by being overseas for no reason
Orb...has it right...nothing will change until the population demands that all vestiges of islam disappear. The enemy in all these hate filled states is nothing more than the hideous, corrupt, brutal culture of islam. Nothing will happen for peace in this world until this hate filled, cruel culture is stamped out once and for all.
Did we get an apology for that?
just leave and stop the warmongering toward Iran while your at it
why have you not heard. thats where the next war is going to be. probably do it like viet nam and get the paint scraped of a boat and then full speed ahead. and iran is the 51st state ahead of puoto rico. sorry cant spell for crap tonight. and we get there and there was not any wmd and they actually were just making electricity. lets see washington bluff that one off.
Puerto Rico does not want to be a state. They have the best of both worlds so why would they give that up to do as the Federal Government says. They get money and protection and it costs them nothing.
The British tried, the Russian's tried, now us. The people over there do not want us. Pack up all our equipment and pull out NOW. Leave them to sink or swim, but get out..........Cause us any trouble in the future make a parking lot out of it........
Learn from history e.g. what happened to Britishers and Russians. We are there for 10 yrs and what have we accomplished? "zero", we could have killed OBL even if we were not in Afghanistan. We have enough bandwidth in the region to deal w/any threat. Bring soldiers back home
Here's what we should tell them.
"FUK you very much....we are outta here!!!"
We need to gather up every Koran (Quran) in the world and have one huge book burning visible from space....We could follow this up with a public statement, and you can quote me here...."Oops"....Oh, wait now some of you are going to argue that this will contribute to Global Warming....and to this....Well, I say, and you can quote me here...."Oops!!!!"
What if you launched massive amounts of korans into space and then let them fall to earth and be burnt up in the atmosphere. Would that be considered burning or the books were just were traveling too fast.
First of all the USA is one of the only countries that do not seem to understand the idea of WAR. There is no rule book you play by, that is why the USA lost in Vietnam to the Vietkong. We were using a rule book when they were not. Having our soldiers have to call their superior and that superior having to call their superior just of shoot is ludicris that is one reason we are loosing in Afghanastan.
Also, Egnland and then Russia have tried to tame Afghanastan, neither succeeded.
To say this is the previous admistrations war is no longer valid it's our current muslim president (yes he is in fact muslim when the man his mother married adopted him, that person was muslim, and by muslim edict if your father is muslim, the child is muslim, so that makes him muslim) he will not leave, because he thinks it makes his sorry a$$ look good or so he thinks.
He is too stupid to bring our soldiers home which should have been implemented the second after he took the oath of office.
We have no business being there.
You are an idiot. But you allready knew that. Last time I checked, Obama was Christian. At least that was what the righties were saying when they attacked him for things his pastor said during the last election. And, even if he was Muslim, so what? Isn't freedom of religion one oif the things we fight for? Criticizing someone for being Muslim is no different than criticizing someone for being Catholic or Jewish. Demonstrating open agression and hostility towards people because of their religion will not encourage peace, but history shows us, it will fuel retalitory hostilities and agressions. The problem with our soldiers burning holy books is that such behavior creates more enemies for the US. lastly, it was Georgie-boy that started this mess. I agree we should leave, but we have a moral obligation to make sure that we do so without creating additional harm.
What did Colin Powell say to Pres. Bush the 2nd before we invaded Afghanistan? If I recall correctly, it was something along the line of, "if you break it, you own it."
Colin Powell was (and still is) a very smart man!
What a great quote and so appropriate for the discussion.
Alright, so it's a tough question. Well I have the answer...
Get out of Afghanistan and let the Taliban have their country back from the meek and weak...
Doesn't anyone Viet Nam? We didn't belong there, and we do not belong in Afghanistan. We are just WASTING money, that we don't even have, and the lives of our troops. We are not wanted there, so we should just get OUT!
As far as the elections go, if just one of the candidates would say that if elected, we will pull out of Afghanistan quickly, then that is who I would vote for. We need to be out of there now!
Leon, let's say that we bring our valiant American soldiers back to the states. How does that sound. Since you and your "experts" are costing the US a hell of a lot of money to keep them in an extremely dangerous situation and bring back to the United States the remainder of the troops in Kuwait.
I'm fed up with you believing that you are sitting lawfully in that role - trading places with General David Petraeus - as if our younger generation wouldn't notice your audacity in obtaining one power position and trading it off as if it were a chess game.
We do not violate the Constitution.
Understand, Sir?
I made myself clear before the entire international community.
Bring every single United States soldier home now or you will lose your job, Mr. Panetta!
We do not violate the Constitution? Are you kidding me? It gets broken daily by the government.
Just one time could those self-serving jerks in Washington do something for the country, and not just think of themselves?????????????????
BRING THE TROOPS HOME FROM AFGANASTAN---ALL AT ONE TIME---WITH OUT EQUIPTMENT AND LET THEM GO BACK TO THEIR WAYS---------- I mean N O W--- try doing something right away instead of your favorite----delay---delay---delay