you're wrong 'ric the hick' insantorummy and God if ric gives God permission is wise enough to make these kinds of decisions for women.

Yea, let's make them have disabled children then cut the social welfare programs that help the needy to pay for the disabled children that we're going to force them to have.

Brilliant.

Santorum is so ignorant and misinformed, it's pure amusement. Women need to unite, and give this loser a reality check.

cat you are absolutely right. there are many many many other gentic abnormalities that can be detect in which the fetus (not a baby) can have and many of them the fetus will not survive out side of the womb. couples (not just the mother) should not have to go thru the torture of a birth so the baby (after it is born) can be born just to die. where is the compasion for these people? santorum made his decsion to have his baby some people DONT HAVE THAT OPTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! when is he going to to stop telling people what they should or should not do? when is he going to tell us what he is planning to do to get our country on the right path? (ps yes the woman has the last say if an abortion is needed or not)

Balance - you are an idiot. Don't want an abortion? DON'T FRIGGIN' GET ONE. Short of that, you got nuthin' to say.

Rick's just trying to change the narative - away from Obama's progress on the economy & jobs, and toward anything controversal he can whip his ultra christian conservative base up about so we all waste time talking about those issues, instead of keeping our eye on the real ball.

So you are OK with compelling the woman to carry the fetus to term? She is just a vessel for the child? And when the child is severely disabled you are good with compelling her and her family to care for the child for the rest of their lives?

Who are you to declare these things? How can a party that claims to want the government out of our personal lives be so ready and willing to invade these most personal of decisions?

This is why Republican women are a real mystery to me. They are members of a male-dominated party that repeatedly puts a significant effort into removing the rights of women and treating them as baby producing objects whose sole purpose is to carry a fetus to term no matter what their personal opinion on the matter may be. And of course once they have compelled the woman and her family to bring the fetus to term, should it be disabled it is now up to the family to deal with it for offering government aid would be intruding into thier personal lives.

I am constantly amazed that anyone would vote Republican given these positions, much less women. How can any morally conscious person accept these obvious contradictions?

Oh, of course, it is all because some old magic dude that allegedly created the world and enshrined slavery in his book says this is how it should be for we are all his slaves for eternity! Silly me.

Balance Da Budget

How many special needs kids have you adopted?

BALANCE DA BUDGET

Terminating a developing human is absolutely wrong, Look all you pro abortion people are either in deep denial or your values are seriously twisted as you know and please do not deny it that abortion is terminating the life of a developing human

Ok... I'm sure you read this from Cat-1200657 :

This can save neo-natal lives if there is something like Rh poisoning and can also lead to in-utero surgeries to correct congenital defects

Isn't it sad that the supposedly "pro-life" crowd wants developing embryos to die from medical conditions that could be diagnosed and successfully treated with prenatal testing?

This leads me to believe that conservatives really have a different agenda: controlling women.

So I was allowed shoes and a chance to leave the kitchen for a little while, but I don't have long, so I'll make this quick.

Mr. Santorum, you are more than entitled to your beliefs, however wack-a-doodle I may see them as, I can tolerate that.

But, let me be very clear, I'm ready and willing to unleash a sh(#$* storm of epic proportions, to battle this "surge of Santorum" should this nutjob come any closer to being POTUS. And yes, the pun was intended.

Just because I can tolerate this turd, doesn't mean I have to be passive in the face of his bigotry and sexism.

DISCLAIMER: By sh$* storm, I of course actually mean, actively engaging in my God given right to protest and speak out against injustice. Please, Feds, don't put me on any terrorist watch list.

Ronald Raygun class B actor made president didn't have a clue about a lot of things. That may be why he created the new republican mantra, "Borrow as much as you can and go into big debt." He also didn't make sense because of his onset of Alzheimer's. But if you like to follow people in that category you should volunteer at a mental health facility.

I also just read about a naked 12 year old looking for food in dumpsters, cut out social welfare, medical insurance and other social programs and that will be an everyday site. Good luck supporting these candidates that look forward to that kind of America. India may be where you would want to live with the different caste system which can't intermingle.

OK, Budget... you are completely entitled to your opinion about abortion and the women who make the hard decision to have one. But here's the problem I see with your anti-choice stance: Those developing human beings are developing at the expense of already fully developed, autonomous human beings. Yes, at the expense of -- physically, socially, psychologically. Bringing a child into the world takes a huge toll on a woman -- a toll no man can ever possibly comprehend. Yes, it is a toll that most women are happy and grateful to bear, but a toll all the same. How can you so easily deny the right of those fully developed, autonomous humans to determine what happens to their own bodies and what toll they are willing/able to take at any given moment of their lives? Yes, there is a developing human being to consider -- but also a fully developed human being who has needs and should not be disregarded and they should not be treated as a piece of biological hardware. It is a messy situation. There are conflicting needs involved. But the needs of the already developed human beings cannot and should not be ignored. Those fully developed human beings do legally and should ethically have the right to face these issues themselves and make those hard decisions for themselves -- and not have them made for them by some paternalistic governmental force. I agree that abortion is a sad, horrible, ugly reality. I can envision no circumstance where I could ever personally make that decision. I am not pro-abortion. But I am pro-choice.

The government should not be making medical decisions.

Wait the country needs to find 20 million jobs, develop a coherent independent energy policy that actually will work toward getting us off fossil fuels, revise its tax code to ensure everyone pays their fair share, a delapidated infrastructure in deperate need of repair...and what do we get from Teapubs a lesson in religion, more abortion laws, more big government coming in between women and their doctor, more insane cocky-may ideas about waging war on religion... IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT?

OBAMA IN 2012
70+ SEATS FOR DEMS IN THE SENATE
CONTROL OF THE HOUSE
JOHN "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a SCOTCH AND TONIC today" BOEHNER, "CANTDO ANYTHING" CANTOR, AND MITCH PEABODY MCCONNEL ON A SLOW PINK BUS TO CHINA...

Well, I'm sure if he becomes President, he'll work on that "women vote" thingy.

Balance, here's a plan, just keep it in your pants and you'll be done with your part on protecting life.

Now go hack down a tree.

This guy is not running for the Presidency. He's running to be the supreme religious ruler which is what we would have if the extreme fundamentalist / evangelical nutjobs had their way. The ONLY way to ensure the absolute freedom of religion or from religion is the complete seperation of church and state.

The Catholic stance on birth control was devised by a group of life-long bachelors and is promoted by the life-long theocrat Rick Santorum.

Hugh - that was totally uncalled for. I don't agree with most of Santorum's views, but that kind of language has no place here (or anywhere, as far as I can see). You cannot expect anyone to take your views seriously when all you do is spew this garbage. And those who wish to prevent Santorum from becoming President need to be taken seriously in their opposition to his views, in order to actually convince those in the middle. Your hatred will convince no one.

Santorum..this is becoming more interesting all the time now...this guy is now saying what women should do..while saying our government has no right to do the same..except of course..the requirement of insurance companies to cover proceedures for women will help protect them..I have to wonder just who or what Santorum is trying to protect. Or, is this a way to cut womens rights to good health care ?

The more I read about Rick Santorum's extremism, the more it becomes clear that he cannot objectively be the leader of this Great Country. Founded on the principles of Freedom, Separation of Church & State, ALL men being created equal and NO Religion forcibly dictates the land or citizens. Our country was designed to embrace all immigrants, cultures, faiths as the Founding Fathers were themselves fleeing the oppressive religious constraints and mandates from their government.

Santorum and today's GOP have chosen to violate the Constitution in this regard. And they say the Mr. Obama is the one with blatant disregard for the Constitution? I am more amazed by what I read and hear each day from the Evangelical Christian Right which not only contradicts the Constitution and intent of Founding Fathers, but the Bible and very life example of Christ towards others. I respect Mr. Santorum for living his life and managing his family based on his personal choices (that's the American way), however, he has shown me that he cannot separate his personal extreme choices from the decisions he would make for the Country and ALL of her people.

As a Christian, listening to Rev. Franklin Graham's interview on Morning Joe yesterday was painful to see a "man of faith" speak such hypocrisy when asked about the Christianity of Mr. Obama, Mr. Santorum and even Mr. Gingrich. His backpeddling, restatements and justifications would have been comical it not dealing with the serious issue of Christ, His love and His death for ALL men equally and unconditionally.

In summary, it was painfully clear that for this new GOP/TP preachers or politicians alike, ones political stripe determines if your a good person, have family values and even have the salvation of Christ himself. They don't need the Bible anymore...It has been replaced with the GOP Platform document.

God Help Us!

Does no one but me recognize that if a MUSLIM candidate were putting forward the same issues and positions Santorum, Romney, and Gingrich are that Santorum, Romney, and Gingrich would be the first ones to scream and huff in indignant fury about intrusion of Sharia law! The fact is that many of the more conservative Christian positions are almost identical to Sharia positions on issues relarting to abortion, pre-natal testing, access to birth control, etc.

Are the majority of us in this country REALLY unaware of the unsustainable hypocrisy of ranting about the offensiveness, unacceptability and unconstitutionality of allowing intrusion of Muslim religious morals and law into social, governmenta,l or personal decision-making, yet then attempting to foist Christian morals and law into social, governmental, and personal decision-making?

Please, can we all remember to be less comparitively judgemental and not MORE so?

What is forgotten about these women's reproductive health issues is that they are primarily WOMEN'S ISSUES with just a little dab of medical ethics, but a HUGE dab of who is goanna pay and who is goanna suffer. Since this is far too much for a bumper sticker, it should NOT be a campaign issue at all.

Meanwhile, "RICK IS A DANGEROUS DICK"

It seems to be the new far right view of rape women with medical devices and rape the earth of its resources...its not as if future generations are going to need it.

It is rather sickening and the republican congress are doing the same thing! They just have to go.

I never comment on abortion issues. In my mind its like me arguing with a mechanic when I know next to nothing about cars; just as MEN know nothing about the female body as it is attached to their emotions. This is not a simple issue of "to abort or not to abort" there are many other questions involved. Will this child be loved? Will the child be alright in life without a dad or will he/she hate me for being a single mom? Some children want their dads in their lives; not all, but some do. Is my body and my career ready for such a task? Maybe I don't want anyone else to know that I am pregnant. Maybe I can take leave from work and return with a flat tummy and know one ever know the difference or be the wiser. Maybe I just don't want some invasive probe revealing secrets that "I" am not yet ready to deal with.

From a purely male perspective, I am convinced that this would be the wrong thing to do. The women of America were going about their business and trying like everyone else to chose a good president and then BOOM! The confused Right drops this BOMB on them? Why? What did they do? I can remember being sixteen and all the controversy over women's rights of the 1960's. The bra burnings, the huge protest and marches and for us black men, they became our sisters in the fight for equality; the right to be treated fairly. I remember all the players and I remember them well. This is wrong! Plain and simple; this is wrong!!! Why should we as a nation be forced to revisit this crap yet again? This issue was put to bed decades ago. But let me say this; think not that they are weak or incapable. They are the toughest, most resilient creatures on this earth when they have been wronged. They will stand like soldiers, arms locked, in freezing weather if they have to. The ReSuckicans are trying to bully females? Are you kidding? Good luck with that!

What is so weird about this whole thing is evanglicals making common cause with Catholics. The last time I looked, evanglicals said Catholics were a cult, headed by the anti-Christ. And then there's that whole transubstantiation thing. So... all these things no longer matter, and Santorum is an acceptable candidate to evangelicals? To quote Lewis Carroll, "curiouser and curiouser". It would probably be instructive to look at exactly who in the Catholic church is supporting his candidacy. I'm thinking the heirarchy but not necessarily the rank and file. That's the way it's always been, at least regarding birth control. The priests said it was evil, but hardly anyone paid attention to them, certainly not my parents.

JC Breeze: Thanks for your post, and the endorsment of womens' issues, abilities, and also for recognizing the extensive history of utterly wrong and harmful war that's been waged against them. Sadly, this is just more of the same, and even with our medicines, iPhones, jets, and 3D vidoes, we are not all that far from the cave.

About BOMBS... this is not a new thing either. Republicans always, always drop a bomb of one kind or another in an election year. Remember Reagan's 'there's a bear in the woods'? Bush Sr's Willie Horton? It distracts, excites, enrages, but mostly works to keep the national public vetting process in the background.

Its amazing to me that these discussions are so one-sided. I don't think that anyone that is anti-abortion is telling a woman what to do with her body. Its a question of a life .. who are we to say that after a baby is born it is now a human but up to the last tri-mester it is disposable. People do not have the right to kill each other. Similarly, who are we to say that mothers should have the right to kill a developing human just because it is not developed to a certain point. It just seems arbitrary to me, which is dangerous.

Yes there are additional factors such as the care for the developmentally challenged. However, the fact that so many people just follow the leader and say "that its a woman's body and her choice" seems incredible to me. There is something that just feels wrong about harming another living thing, and the best measure of the fairness of a society is how it protects those least able to protect themselves (children, elderly, and the disabled).

As to prenatal testing that is a different story. Clearly there are benefits to those types of procedures and they should not be eliminated and they should be paid for by insurance .. I think Santorum is just trying to mention that people use the results of those tests to justify aborting fetuses whom they feel will not have a good quality of life. And as we all know noone has the right to judge if they deem another person's life worth living .. thats only for that person to decide.

Hugh Jorgan: "Balance de Budget- I think you need to Balance De Brain first"....BWAAAA Ha! I love it!!!

Unbalanced, From an environmentalist's perspective, I'll spell it out for you. The greatest threat to trees, whales and snails is...you guessed it: humans.

This is why Republican women are a real mystery to me.

Just remember that the embarrassing cesspit that is the modern Republican party bears no resemblance to the Republican party as it was before it got hijacked in the 1950s by certain factions and further destroyed in the 1980s by the religious right. There are still people who believe in the core values of limited government and lower taxes, given that public services that justifiably are the responsibility of federal, state or local government cost money. We don't give a rat's butt about your personal life. And contrary to left-wing belief, we have no problem paying taxes to support the real infrastructure of society - utilities, transportation, legal system, emergency services, fundamental education that all citizens should have, etc - or for providing for members of society who can't work for a living, such as children, legitimately disabled or elderly (who worked their whole lives contributing to Social Security, which is most definitely NOT an "entitlement"). We just take issue with redundant and/frivolous government functions, and the entitlement system which has built up to provide any sort of long-term support to able-bodied adults of working age and which is typically designed (by the bleeding-heart left) to encourage irresponsible production of childen simply by providing more benefit - and little to no disincentive - for doing so.

This is why you'll frequently see me say on these boards that the Republican party shoots itself in the foot looking for ever-more-extreme right-wing nutcases to appease the lunatic fringe - who are never, never, never, ever, going to vote Democrat - rather than supporting a true moderate, who would win this election in a landslide.

This man is a scourge! You know the funny thing is, I am not a religious person, but when you read Revelations, these republican candidates, and the 112th congress, remind me of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse and the Whore of Babylon.

War- turning the American people against one another, by allowing an advocating, a new form of slavery in this country. (rides a red horse... hmmmm...)

Pestilence- allowing pharmaceutical companies to poison our people, without real recourse, voting pizza as a vegetable, allowing dangerous chemicals into our food supplies, that even China, of all countries, refuse to import our meats. (rides a horse a white horse, a color that should be known for virtue, but in this instance, is corrupted)

Death- no universal healthcare, wanting to take away birth control and abortions from women an families who cannot afford another mouth to feed. (rides a green horse.... which is interesting because money is green.)

Famine- this country has millions of food insecure people, 20 million or more are children. Famine itself carried scales of grain that is 10 x more expensive, making an entire's day wage, which is only enough to feed on person. (Rides a horse as black as the GOP's heart)

Whore of Babylon- bears false witness, including delusions and spiritual deception. ALL THE REPUBLICANS THAT SAY THEY BELIEVE IN JESUS, BUT SUPPORT GREED!!!!!

I wonder... oh well, either way, if the GOP wins, it will be an apocalypse, alright. Especially if this guy becomes president.

Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum charges that a law requiring insurers to cover prenatal testing is a way to encourage more women to have abortions that will 'cull the ranks of the disabled in our society.'

Well, very interesting, that means if this would have been in place a while back we would not have to content with Santorum. Wonder how he likes that.

Prenatal testing is already done and is already being covered by insurance. Unless it's been stopped and I didn't know about it. I was having prenatal tests 20 years ago when I had my kids, I have had friends have kids in the past 10 years who had them and my nieces just had prenatal testing when they had their kids (in the last 6 months) so really, is there even an issue with this or, as I suspect, is this something wacko Santorum manufactured because he has nothing else to offer?

Keep up the good work Rick...deny women contraceptives and prenatal care is a sure winner

Ever notice that the anti abortion people NEVER have any adopted children? No politician should be able to right any anti abortion law without have 5 adopted children. The same goes for clinic protesters.

Of course, if the pre-natal tests show that there is no chance that the fetus will survive after birth, then aborting the pregnancy does not give you the opportunity to take a dead body home to abuse your other children with.

"See, this is what happens when you don't listen to your father. Look at it!!!!! "

The guys fishing for controversy, and he's an idiot. Anyways our 1 year old was supposed to have cloacal malformation, basically they said they where 99.99% sure she would be born without a vagina or anus. Thank God they where wrong, however they did not stop sending the bills. Pre-natal testing isn't all its cracked up to be, well in our case that is.

I will say this if they where correct I would want to know before she was born! Still not sure if we should feel lucky or pissed off.

Still doesn't change the fact of Rick being a self absorbed idiot. How long do you think he spends in front of the mirror loving himself? Oh he is a professional politician, oh yes he is.

Can we get a republican and not an anti-obama nut case? Please? Anybody?

NMAZ,

When you said "hijacked in the 50's by a certain group" I take it you meant the Milton Friedman Free Marketeer cult of wingnuts?

Milton Friedman, the proud father of global misery.

How can a party that claims to want the government out of our personal lives be so ready and willing to invade these most personal of decisions?

Simple: It's called HYPOCRISY.

Rick Santorum is a wrath that worships Satan as a religious ceremony, this guy is dangerous.

Down Syndrome: Santorum - you adopt then and bring Christ into their tortured lives.

The frustration I have with the posts regarding Santorum's view is that he never mentions eliminating the availability of testing, but just the new requirement that it is "free". Historically, it has always been available in insurance plans and covered under medicaid, but has not been a requirement that it is available for "free". Currently, testing is usually only recommended by physicians to be performed on high risk pregnancies (like women over 42 or those with a family history). That just leads to raising everybody's rates and taxes to cover it. That is the new feature of Obamacare to which he is opposed.

There is no question that increasing the testing leads to increased abortions for these cases and it is good for that discussion.

Wait...wait...I thought the GOP was about less government??

Like telling two grown adults what they can't do behind closed doors....censoring television.....manipulating health insurance.....trying to pass national legislation to put religious teachings in state buildings.....ummmm, trying to force teaching "intelligent design" in our national science curriculum...uh, nation building.....

Less government, right?

Keep yer women barefoot, pregnant, and completely in the dark about what's going on inside...

D Man - The GOP is about less government when it comes to what's in your wallet. Its all for oppressive intrusive government when it comes to what's between your ears and your legs.

Our illustrious PA legislature is currently considering a bill that would require pregnant women who are considering abortion to submit to ultra sound, view a picture of the fetus and listen to the heartbeat.

We Pennsyltuckians ain't the brightest but at least we got rid of Ricky. Please, wake up before it's too late.

Nosferatu- funny thing, if they go in less than a month after the first missed period (many abortions do take place in that time period), they may not even be able to find a heartbeat yet. I've had an 8 week ultrasound (6 weeks after conception, 4 weeks after missing a period), and you see a tiny dot shaped a bit like a peanut. There's just not much there to use to make a woman feel guilty yet.

inmissouri: even the REPUBLICAN governor of VA is now backtracking after being sent this version of the same mandatory probe law...(he's a guy that hopes to have a political future nationally and isn't quite THIS stupid). No woman should be assumed to be an idiot incapable of making a decision about a legal abortion and subjeccted to a mandatory vaginal ultrasound because the religious nuts can't overturn Roe V. Wade. How about a law requiring men to get a mandatory anal probe as their partners in "crime"...This idiotic attack on women will never stand constitutional muster but it will get the republicans marginalized for a good long while.

inmissouri - that's the thing that is getting missed in this issue - The bills start with the premise that women are too stupid to understand what an abortion means. That if a woman is confronted with evidence that the "peanut" is a human being, she will change her mind. The problem is that getting evidence of anything other than a peanut requires waiting until much later in the pregnancy, maybe beyond the time limit for an abortion according to many state laws. Don't think that state politicians won't take that position.

I ABHORE most everything Rick Santorum SPEWS, however, you must admit that his

SWEATER VESTS are TOTALLY KICK-ASS!!!!

P.S. Is his nose on sideways or is it just my T.V.?

P.S.S. His oldest daughter looks JUST LIKE HIM...BLESS HER PRECIOUS HEART!!!

That's the funny thing about abortion, under most interpretations of the law, you can get an abortion up to the point where the fetus can survive outside the womb on its own. Up until that point, however, IT is not a human being, it is NOT a person, IT is a fetus. IT does not become a person until IT is born. That is the whole point of the current laws. Requiring another expensive medical test does not change that.

What I find hypocritical is that the GOP does not want the government to be able to require you to purchase something that you may not want from a private company (health insurance) unless they want you to purchase something that you may not want from a private company (an ultrasound.)

dirp101,

No, here's the hypocritical part: The GOP is all for smaller government and then pushes these massively invasive laws. Remember Terri Shiavo? And how the GOP passed a law that applied to a single person?

After all the stink these guys made about Obamacare and how the long arm of government will be sitting in the doctor's office with you, they want to do exactly the same thing with wedge issues such as this.

Hey Mr. Santorum, what are you going to do to fix the economy? What are you going to do to balance the budget? What are you going to do that will actually help Americans currently living outside the womb?

Santorum for Pope 2012 !

Im waiting for a gay teen escort to come out with stories about him, Ted Haggard style.

It's always the homophobes that are the most twisted!

Correct Thermen,

Santorum has nothing worthwhile to say about governing this country. He's clearly lost the women's vote as well as the independents. He and the GOP have already guaranteed Obama a second term.

I concur. Rick should be known as Rick Sanitorium. Many of the ideas he has a just plane CRAZY.

d man.. the dems are ready with that evidence .. just waiting for the GOP to inflict more wounds on their selves .. if Rick gets the nod the dems will out him

You know, if the hard right wing of the GOP really tries hard, Rick Santorum could be the nominee. Of course, they would lose the House, Senate, and every other race........ oh, yeah.

Yeah.... Santorum 2012 !!!!

Go Rick, Go.

Most Republicans do get it. When this idiot keeps attacking women's health issues he proves he can't represent ALL of the people as President. The nuts like Santorum are dragging down the party. It's becoming increasingly clear that he's putting his religion ahead of what's good for the country and his party. He's way off track. Time for primary voters to send him a strong message.

He should come clean and tell us the place for women is in church, the Kitchen or with the children. (Kinder Kirche Kuche of old). Next he'll be telling us to give up working so that the men can get a job. Be afraid of this man and his spurious arguments, be very afraid of him with power. A theocracy is what he is aiming for and we women will suffer at every turn if he gets any power over us. Another thought for good old Rick - maybe he, and the Newtster, would consider giving up telling lies for lent.

@ annie13 - Santorum has started down the road of telling women what they can and can't do professionally by his denouncing of the plans to increase women's role on the front lines in the military.

David, I hope most Republicans do get it. I have no problem with different fiscal and political policies, but legislation of religion and taking away choices from those who have to deal with the consequences of those life decisions and choices is wrong. If someone is a devout religious follower, they do not have to have a prenatal examination. It is that simple.

To me it is tragic that many Republican principals have been hijacked or overshadowed by religious extremists who want to force their version of morality on everyone else, since obviously their path and values through this life are the only one's that matter.

It is discouraging that so many on the right decry the control Islam exerts over many of that faith, most notably Islamic women, but seem to encourage that same behavior as Christians. No, you can't serve on the front lines. No birth control for you. No, you cannot have prenatal screening exams (well, you can but you'll go broke doing so). No abortions for you, either. And no social safety net for your horribly handicapped child if you do bring it to term. I hope that thinking republican voters soon see where their party is taking them, and begin to protest. They have become a party of very narrow special interests, namely the most well to do members of our society, and those who have the most fundamental Christian views.

I agree Bob! As a special educator for 38 years, I take umbrage with his comments. Religion and his personal agenda is attempting to take over this election. If Santorum had his way, we would be no different than militant Islamic groups who force their views on the majority. Women would be wearing burqas! Regardless of political affiliation, voters need to see this guy as a loose cannoned religious fanatic.

This is a very slippery slope! But yes; it leans very much toward trying to TELL Americans how to live and run their households. If I may reflect: When the gov't was given the authority to enter into a person's home and take their children, (for reasons other than abuse), I became very alarmed. Of course the children must be protected but if the gov't takes away a parent's right to administer restrained chastisement of their own children; will the gov't feed and clothed them?

Now they want to tell us all about having children; all about abortions, all about rearing those children; aren't we allowing just a little too much gov't intervention? Now they say chastising a dog or pet is cruel. So it is better to allow your pet to run out into the streets and become road kill, but don't chastise the dog. They won't stop here. Next up...only one church will be recognized! Hmmph! I ain't having it!

My first child had something that might have been a sign for Down's show up on an ultrasound. I passed on an amnio to confirm due to the miscarriage risk, but if the new blood test had been available, I would have taken it in order to be prepared if necessary- not to have an abortion.

I also don't see the point in forcing a woman to carry a child to term if it has a condition that means there is no way it can survive once born.

inmissouri,

I also don't see the point in forcing a woman to carry a child to term if it has a condition that means there is no way it can survive once born.

You mean if the child has something like anencephaly, where the baby doesn't develop a brain? By the way, if you look that up on Wikipedia, be prepared for some really disturbing images. Santorum et al want to make women carry babies like this to term.

Pragmatic- and then there's cases like an online aquaintance of mine had. Her baby was bleeding from the brain (along with other issues), and there was no way to save it. In order to save her life, due to the possibility of infection and other complications, they had to make the decision to abort the baby via inducing labor. As horrifying as that was for her, I wonder if the GOP would want to make her carry the baby until it died, possibly taking her along with it.

Yay.

He's not telling anyone what they should be doing here. He's saying if you want the tests pay for them. If your health insurance wants to pay for them they should pay for them. But if your health insurance doesn't want to pay for them they shouldn't be forced by the government to do so. The only one telling someone to do something here is obama.

Yes, he is wrong. It is giving families the chance to be tested if they wish. It doesn't make them and it doesn't force anyone to do anything. It simply gives them the chance. Sarah Palin even got that...it helps to know so you can prepare and have medical help available at the birth.

It isn't Rick's decision to make, but is a medical need and denying it is wrong. Rick, you aren't running for religious leader here...president doesn't translate to religious leader in America.

Lil Ricky is simply dead wrong on every mark, try as he might.

Ryan ... please read this article:

http://www.salon.com/2012/02/21/santorum_amnio_open2012/

It is NOT all about Down's and your OB must not be up on their continuing education if they don't know that there are MANY reasons to have amnio - NOT JUST DOWN'S and NOT just to make a decision to abort. If your OB actually said this then I would pick an OB who is OBJECTIVE and not bound by personal religious matters. It could save your wife's life or the life of a future child.

A baby is a LIFE. This isn't about women's rights. It is about a baby's value.

A baby is a life.

The question on whether a fetus is alive isn't really answered.

By the way, you're a dude (and so am I) so it's easy as HELL for us to say what's alive and what's not. We're not the ones knocked up.

A baby is a LIFE. This isn't about women's rights. It is about a baby's value.

Of course a baby is a life, but a fetus is not yet a person, and if I (meaning my wife) had a downs syndrome pregnancy it would be aborted as quickly as possible (We are in agreement on this kind of thing).

Regardless, there are numerous reasons why pre-natal testing is important. Mortality from childbirth used to be the leading cause of death for women under 40 and babies. With modern medicine, childbirth is very safe comparatively. Much of this is due to proactive identification of defects and abnormalities, and being prepared to deal with them.

A fetus is a baby. A fetus is alive. You can't even run genetic testing until a fetus crosses over into being unquestioningly alive medically (heart beat, brain activity, etc).

And to clarify, our OB is NOT pro-life. She's not even religious. She was just honest with us about genetic testing, and the fact that it is medically unnecessary. She knew our beliefs and the fact that, knowing we would never abort, she felt there was absolutely no medical (nor mental) benefit in any such testing. She's actually a well respected OB who is in demand. We are lucky to have her. She actually does teaching in the field of high-risk obstetrics, working in several teaching hospitals in the area.

And what is their value when they're grown, Ryan? People like you go on and on about how valuable a baby is but when they're grown, people like you don't want your tax payer dollar going to care for these people.

You pro-life people are ludicrous. You treat babies like puppies...they're cute and cuddlly and valuable when they're puppies but when they grow up you couldn't give a damn about their welfare. Completely and utterly hypocritical.

No, Santorum is not correct and neither is your bull@!$%# story about your Ob-gyn. Then you talk about outright lies by pro-choice people. There is nothing in what you said, Ryan, that is correct, either pragmatically or morally. Next time, learn the facts, not the slants.

Ryan: wrong. amniocentesis is an option. If you don't want to take it on the chance it would make a deciison hard for you, that's your choice. Most OBGYN's do NOT agree with yours that hiding your head in the sand and pretending no knowledge is best is a good thing. And if you are against abortion, by all means, don't have one. That's why they call it "choice".

Ryan- only invasive tests such as amnio carry a miscarriage risk. Prenatal testing also includes ultrasounds and blood tests for the mother (they're making a lot of advances in those). I had all of the non-invasive prenatal testing done with both of my pregnancies. It can really help you be prepared- some conditions may require extra care immediately after birth, some may necessitate a csection or even surgery in utero.

You can call me slanted all you want. But I'm not ignorant on this subject AT ALL. What is ignorant is thinking that just because we wouldn't have an abortion somehow makes it okay for others. You may not agree, but the pro-life position is that elective abortion is NO DIFFERENT than infanticide and murder. So it would be like me saying, "You think murder is wrong? Find...by all means...don't murder. But don't take away my right to murder!"

Furthermore, my wife and I have talked about having more children. (We have five now.) We want more, even knowing we are getting older and may end up with a baby with Down Syndrome. We're okay with that. We have friends who are raising a Down Syndrome baby right now. We have family with kids with Autism.

The lie here is that the medical need of knowing AHEAD OF TIME is not a need at all. And as our OB pointed out, her experience has been that the prenatal testing has ultimately led to far greater emotional stress on the parents-to-be than those who chose not-to-know and just dealt with it when the baby was born.

Finally, please note that Santorum isn't saying parents cannot have this testing...he is saying insurers should not be required to pay for it. I'm not going to stop parents from wanting testing. But to expect insurers and potentially tax-payers to pay for it? That IS wrong.

Ryan, I accidently clicked that I agree with you and that is far from the truth. Your ob must live in a cave or something.

Genetic testing just isn't given only to provide reasons for aborting a fetus, and anyone who tells you that isn't giving you the whole story. Not only are there blood tests and not only amnios, which of course aren't risking any pregnancy from a simple blood test, but it DOES help to know if there is a problem before birth whether you will consider aborting a seriously sick infant or not. I agree that sometimes there is stress and it turns out to be unfounded, but sometimes a genetic issue is found that does need to addressed before or at birth, or that would mean a baby needed to be tested further after birth or receive special services.

Downs isn't the only genetic issue out there and you and your ob just aren't looking at the whole picture. And yes, I do know what I'm talking about. Perhaps your ob said for YOU she could see it wouldn't make any difference, but for babies and parents it can IF they choose to be tested. Just because YOU didn't want it doesn't mean no one should have it accessible to them.

Ryan,

You are wasting your time with these people. I have sat down with my wife and 4 different OB's who told her the same thing. We as a couple have to make our choice. My wife believes with every ounce of her being that the "little spot" (which I read in an earlier post) is our baby.

Rick is honest and has gone through this process and him and his wife chose life. I believe in a womans right, but not with tax payer money. That is what this is about.

Thank you for your post Ryan.

ryan your ob needs to go back to school, not teach.

MRWSR-Did you happen to notice that you inadvertantly said "Rick is honest and has gone through this process and him and his wife (good english by the way) CHOSE life? WOW, he actually had a CHOICE as to if they wanted to abort the baby or not? Who in the hell gave them the CHOICE? All the right-to-life nutjobs don't allow a CHOICE! God didn't give Santorum a CHOICE, he told him to keep the baby, and there was no CHOICE! (Are you seeing a pattern yet?)

I believe you also inadvertantly said "I believe in a WOMAN'S right". SORRY, with Frothy Santorum, women don't have any rights.

What are you, one of those left-wing liberals that think women have rights or get a choice on matters involving their own bodies? HELL NO, we men will decide what's good for you, and you will STFU and not question it, just like a good christian should! What nerve you have!

Sorry Hugh,

Sorry for the bad grammer, thank you for the correction.

We all have free will sir and you seem to be full of the progressive hate. You can read my post however you want to. I do believe women have the right to chose, whether I agree with it or not. I would like to see abortions stop, won't deny that. Never once have I seen or heard anything that takes away the rights of women. Its a, who is going to pay for it issue.

You are angry and need to learn that its ok to be wrong and soon you will see that you are. Its ok Hugh, you hang in there.

MRWSR- what about your child's right to proper medical care? Non-stress tests and ultrasounds (two kinds of prenatal testing) showed that I should go ahead and have both my kids a little early rather than wait for labor to start on its own.

Ryan: why not just be honest and say you think the government knows what's best for your wife and she doesn't know her own mind? See, otherwise, it wouldn't be called "choice". Your definition, thankfully, does not mean a mandate on everyone else. I guess your wife doesn't have anything to do with paying for insurance? The ignorance and willingness to tell others how to live by that ignorance is astonishing...Have you thought of running for national office as a Republican party standard-bearer?

Never claimed that there were not times that it is a must for the baby or the mother. My wife was induced early, because of safty concerns for the baby. Every one here is missing the point. It is not a spritual issue or under what conditions is it ok. Its a payment of treatment issue. It should not fall on the taxpayer or be mandated by the government to be paid for with taxpayer money. We have good insurance and it has gone up, but it covers high risk births. But it cost us a lot. That was our choice and by the grace of God we were able to afford the treatments. Would not have tried to have another boby if we did not have the means to. Do not need the government to say go ahead, we have a program that pays for that for you. That is crap, we all pay for it. Now I get to pay for it twice.

Ryan:

If you believe that a fetus is alive, does that mean a single celled fetus is alive? Does that mean birth control is wrong?

If so, I bet you don't masturbate then. Because you'll be committing genocide against your living sperm. After all, one of them could fertilize an egg and turn into a fetus right?

Birth control opponents confuse the piss out of me.

@Ryan...Congratulations on the decision that you and your wife made after consultation with your OB. But the government has no business taking any medical decisions out of the hands of patients and doctors. Especially when those policies are religiously motivated.

MRWSR, the problem with your argument is that the Affordable Healthcare Act does NOT state that FEDERAL MONEY will be used for these tests. It states that all insurance companies MUST pay for these elective tests. It takes away the INSURANCE COMPANY'S decision that they won't cover the pre-natal testing (which is how some of them are currently set up). For example: MY insurance company would not pay for a third ultrasound at 36 weeks unless there had been complications in the pregnancy. If they had, we would have KNOWN my son was breach (he "dropped" at 34 weeks so he couldn't turn around by 36 weeks) and I would not have endured 18 1/2 hours of labor which caused my blood pressure to plummet as I lay there DYING. We could have gone straight to Cesarean Section at 2 am without putting MY life in danger. I had a 100% uncomplicated pregnancy. The ultrasound at 18 weeks didn't show the nuchal fold issues that would indicate Down's Syndrome and I had a feeling that my son was ok - despite the fact that I was less than 2 months away from my 38th birthday when I got pregnant. I had no gestational diabetes, NO complications at all. So I couldn't get the third ultrasound my OB wanted me to get to confirm the presentation ... see, I was a breach baby as well and those DO tend to run in families for some reason. But the possibility that a bony tush might be mistaken for a head was never considered by the insurance company. It was not "enough" possibility in their warped minds to allow a third ultrasound.

The GOVERNMENT is NOT paying for the tests ... the INSURANCE COMPANIES will have to pay for them.

Cat,

I hear you, we had to pay for the extra ulta sounds.

Our health care needs a major overhall, but not like this one. Obama care is causing the rise in cost and making the insurance companies have to cut coverage. This have been proven over and over , no point in stating the facts agian or debating it. This leaves the Government as the only answer to getting this coverage. It is coming and obama tried last week. It is not the treatment or testing that I am upset about its just what is coming and what is being started.

Steven100. From your answer, you appear to be confused about what Santorum is saying. Let me try to help. What Santorumis saying that pre-natal testing is wrong. Why? Because it lowers the number of babies born with mental, and/or physical challenges. In other words, when he is the "Supreme Leader" he will not allow pre-natal testing. Women will then be forced to give birth to all babies even those who have chance of ever living independent productive lives and even if these women have no way of supporting these children. He also is against social programs and health-care for the poor.

What you are saying is exactly what he is saying should never happen. I don't understand you assertion that he is "not wrong on this issue".

Ryan where you're wrong is that in this country abortion is legal...murder is not....So it's not a matter of legality is a matter of morality maybe... try not to get a nose bleed staying way up there on that moral high ground.

Calling all Progressive liberals or as I like to say, closet socialist.

The fact that you would abort a baby because it may be mentaly retarded is not the issue. As wrong as that is, you have the right. No one wants to take that away. Just don't ask for free health care for this. The poor will not be forgotten or neglected. The welfare state that you have helped create has enslaved the poor and they are forever dependent. You do them injustice, just as you do injustice to the babies that may need more love than you can offer. You are happy as long a you and you alone set the moral code. So far you are winning, you have made great changes in this country and if you win this year, you may complete the change. The voters will decide and I will have to accept that, win or lose.

We want more, even knowing we are getting older and may end up with a baby with Down Syndrome. We're okay with that.

Good for you. That is your choice (even though I adamantly disagree).

And a fetus is alive just like my appendix is alive. Yet we are not arguing over my right to have an appendectomy.

As wrong as that is, you have the right. No one wants to take that away. Just don't ask for free health care for this.

You appear to have missed the issues completely. No funds go toward abortions. Period. We are merely talking about providing funds for prenatal care which REDUCES overall health care costs.

If it is clear that a pregnancy needs a c-section it is much cheaper to have it scheduled than to have an emergency with potential complications. Neural tube not fully developed, or intestine is protruding? Much cheaper to have labor prepared for the immediate operation than to do so blindly.

If a woman takes knowlege gained through prenatal care and determines that an abortion is necessary, that is her right and none of the government's interest. Taxpayer money won't be used.

The overall cost because the less number of children born. There are reasons for these test and medical needs that always need to be addressed. These reasons are covered in most plans. But the government can not tell the insurance companies too do so, it starts with contrception, but this where will it end. Prenatal care is a must and as for my wife, she was taken cared of. It cost alot of out of pocket and some was covered. But we knew this when we signed up for the plan.

The Ultimate goal is for it to be provided and paid for by the tax payer. It will break most of us who are making ends meet and still pay more and more taxes. There is 49% of people who get money back. I don't. So enjoy your check, thanks for the hard work and progressive rant.

Don't let the whiners fool you over what their real concern is. Hint, it ain't their morals or beliefs. that's all a smokescreen to hide who they really are. MRWSR just gave that away. It's all about them being terrified that a dollar of THEIR money might get used for someone else. nothing more. None of these fake on their high horse people could give a big fat rats ass about unborn babies. They care about their own wallet. Period!

Ryan: why do you even bother going to a doctor ? If you're going to go with 15th century medical beliefs, why not go all in and not bother with modern medicine at all ?

My wife and I did have pre-natal testing. Our OB and our pediatrician suggested the least invasive testing first. We did not have to go with amnio, it was not medically indicated. As to having amnio, in the hands of a qualified physician, the risk of accidental miscarriage during the procedure is very small.

Actually Sally, its about the RWNJ's fighting to control women's bodies, state-by-state, law-by-law. If federal law mandates that contraception be covered, ALL state insurance laws to the contrary are overridden. If you're religious belief is that "every sperm is sacred....." too bad, believe what you want, just don't force your religious belief onto my body.

Yes, because they think that women are submissive to their husband and will vote the way that he tells her to vote.

Never mind that 98% of women have used birth control

Never mind that The First Amendment protects our Freedom of religion and freedom FROM Religion

Never mind that 28 states already use this statue for their dealings with churches and church funded hospitals

Never mind that they FORCE insurance companies to pay for Viagra.

What they have succeed in doing is rallying women together like never before

Keep talking Santorum, Issa, and you other Republican MEN. We will tell you Never mind in November!

Obama 2012!

Almost 100 percent of Trisomy 18 children are encouraged to be aborted, so I know what I'm talking about here.

Encouraged to be aborted? I seriously doubt any healthcare professional actively encourages parents to abort their babies.

If parents decide on an abortion, after researching and having all their questions answered, then it is THEIR choice.

Rick Santorum - get the hell out of women's uterus's!

Wise Old Man - Dumb as a box of rocks, the entire bunch. As a 56 yo. female who had her first and only child at age 35 I find this mans remarks about women insulting and demeaning and every other woman I know, including hubby's 91 yo. aunt, feel exactly the same way. Just let him keep talking and Obama is sure to win the election.

Dear Fellow Americans, Please do some homework, read about Santorum and his record in the Senate and his record in Pennsylvania - he is a truly frightening individual.

ap excellent post

Excuse me, are you saying that he is a closeted gay man and that's why he hates women???? Are you saying gay men hate women in general??? I am offended by your post.

The first sentence states my intention"This guy must hate women!! " and then I say "He must be in the closet still like most GOP politicians" at no point do I say gay men hate women.

PO, i think al was being sarcastic. I got a chuckle out of his response.

Piss

Please don't group gays with THIS sicko. The gays that I know Do Not Hate women. Your post "implies it"

I feel sorry for Mrs little Ricky and any daughters he may have. I have more hope that all groups will put this dog out. (and most of the GOP as well) Its sad, the right only cares about the baby's....but not about the people they become. They are against..Education, food stamps (when needed) health care, housing (not just the 1%'s rentals) good jobs, clean air, fair wages, old sick Americans, Vets...the list goes on.

We have seen the Devil.....its the GOP!

Oh, don't kid yourself, Santorum has discussed jobs, the economy and wars. He stated flatly that the day he becomes President he will send troops back into Iraq. Never mind consent of Congress, he's going to go and kick ass. He's also stating that he'll will increase our military presence and make us such big bad guys nobody will mess with us. And he will eliminate terrorism. He didn't say how, but he's got a secret plan and it'll work, he's sure of it. Jobs and the economy, he's just going to force all the illegals out of the country so "real Americans" can take the jobs they do and he's going to totally cut welfare spending and Social Security so all those good for nothing layabouts will have to get off their asses and get a job, by God, including all them lazy old timers and fake sick people (like the blind and the crippled and the grown up downs syndrome kids whose parents have died). And he'll reduce the taxes the rich pay, and that will somehow magically balance the budget and create jobs. Oh, but only if the middle class pays more taxes, see. That's how it work in Santorum land. And he will declare this country is a Fundamental Christian nation and anyone not a fundamental Christian had just best get out. Or convert. Or die.

Please God, just help America see through this crazy man and vote for Obama. Amen

God spoke directly to Santorum and asked him to run, so Obama could get re-elected :)

Delicious sarcasm. Omnomnom.

I am 100% pro-Life but I agree that pre-natal testing is important. I had the triple-screen with all 3 of my pregnancies even though I would not have aborted in the event of a genetic abnormality. Down Syndrome babies often need intensive medical treatment including heart surgery. Knowing ahead of time that a mother is carrying a DS baby allows her to deliver in a hospital with the resources to provide that kind of treatment. I share Santorum's concern about the widespread abortion of babies found to have disabilities, but that's not the fault of the screening test. Work on changing hearts and minds about abortion, don't refuse to pay for the screening tests.

so the test shows a deformed baby with severe brain damage - ( the wonders of modern science) - the practical humane thing to do would be to not bring the child into the world - no quality of life - no chance to experience life or to be even aware of their own existence - not to mention the tremendous burden placed upon the family , why, because a relgious belief tells you what a god would want you to do - if a god was that smart he would take the child back - ah but he does sometimes doesnt he - miscarriages - gods own abortion - why why would god create a life then destroy it - so he is not so perfect after all ............is he

well-intentioned? really?

I gotta learn to proofread once in a while...

Big difference between aborting due to gender and for severly disabling genetic defects. Secondly, in our country/culture decisions based upon gender are not happening in any sort of regularity, so it is a non-issue for us.

Stick to teaching a dead language with no use in the modern world.

you don't have to have the tests. They are just available.

Eng. Your arrogance aside, I speak five living languages because I learned that dead one first. No use in the modern world? Please! You clearly know little about such things--might want to keep your mouth shut when venturing into areas about which you know nothing--you opened it here and proved yourself foolish. By the way, you will probably work for my students someday as they are very driven to succeed and are learning how to communicate at a very high level by way of this language you so haughtily dismissed. Your loss....

As to the issue in India vs. the USA--you missed the point. This whole business can be abused. It already is being abused in India in an easily seen manner that even HuffPo documents. If pre-natal testing gets very good at specifics, and I believe it will, will people then "special order" human beings and throw out the one's who don't measure up (intelligence, size and strength, etc.)? Would you consider your life to be that cheap if you were still in the womb and others were deciding whether you lived or died? Would you measure up to your own standards? This question is not meant to mock, but to provoke thought.

oldLatinSchool: No, I believe you missed the point. This is not India. Your "slippery slope" analogy is a poor one. Should we reject all medical science because information might lead some to make decisions others don't agree with? Should we do no genetic testing for disease because we're too delicate to use the results wisely? Should we just assume we're all too stupid and uninformed to make our own decisions about our own health care and our own bodies? In this country, we don't embrace the argument that individuals are not capable of making informed choices about their own lives (if we're not followers of the extreme religious right that is). Eventually, rationality wins out.

And what of the babies who are BORN and then rejected by the tens of thousands and left to die by starvation or disease because they are the wrong sex in India? That's not abuse? The real culprit is knowledge? The real culprit is women having that knowledge and using it? Rail all you like on that one...the government always knows best when it comes to women and their private decisions just isn't going to get you in national political office in this country.

we are not in india

AP No I didn't miss the point. This can correctly be labeled a slippery slope--granted, but that doesn't necessarily invalidate a point. It does necessitate showing whether the slope is indeed slippery. Whenever people get access to power (and this is an access to power over life and death), corruption inevitably follows. Be careful about this brave new world we are trying to create.

As to other points in the first paragraph and the content of your second paragraph. Where in my posts did I suggest that we deny women access to info? Where did I suggest rejecting all medical science? Where did I say that the real culprit was knowledge? What you have done is to build a straw man--that, too, is fallacious.

Sjc: Glad you know where we are...

Oldschool. What is your point? This is the United States not India. India also had a the oldest woman (I think that she was 72) to ever give birth (via IVF using her 78year old husband's sperm). Does that mean that we should ban IVF in the US?

Allmill2 You too are the master of the straw man. Where did I suggest that? Read "Brave New World" by Huxley and "1984" by Orwell. Knowledge itself is seldom if ever the problem. What people do with that knowledge is another story--what we do with what we know speaks volumes about what we are.

What if, years ago, we were able to detect Lou Gehrigs in the womb? Would we abort Stephen Hawking?

In India when they cannot afford the prenatal testing, they wait until the baby is born and if it's a girl they kill her. It is common practice. So what's your point? Allowing US citizens to make informed decisions based on available and legal health care is going to do what exactly?

The problem in general is that female lives are not valued - its not specific to India. In the US we are proving it otherwise by trying to limit the rights of the female population to control their lives.

Pat: If you don't know the answer to the question you are asking me--that truly is sad. Maybe this example will help. The following is a link to the Discovery site. It's about a supposed "liberal gene."

http://news.discovery.com/human/is-there-a-liberal-gene.html

For the sake of argument, let's say that it's true--and it might indeed be. What if the testing reveals that a child has that gene, and I say "abort it." It's all legal after all... How do you feel about that? I'm not trying to be cruel or mocking. It's simply a hypothetical. Please understand (most who have read my posts keep trying to pigeonhole me in their presuppositions) that I have no problems at all with tests and information--only with what might be done with that information.

By the way, you will probably work for my students someday as they are very driven to succeed and are learning how to communicate at a very high level by way of this language you so haughtily dismissed. Your loss....

Learning how to communicate at a high level... humm. Strange, I got through law school just fine without knowing any Latin. The select few phrases used today can be learned in an hour. I'm not saying it isn't a neat thing, but it is about as useful as learning basket weaving or paper making from papyrus.

Eng. Spoken by someone who has never taken it and therefore can only produce baseless criticism. Did you learn to do that in law school?

This whole business can be abused.

Many things can be abused. Just because there is potential for abuse does not mean that we should not support procedures that improve mortality rates, reduce overall health care costs and increase knowledge of the pregnant woman.

It already is being abused in India in an easily seen manner that even HuffPo documents.

And we are not India. Gender selection would never be an issue here. As such your concern is moot.

If pre-natal testing gets verygood at specifics, and I believe it will, will people then "special order" human beings and throw out the one's who don't measure up (intelligence, size and strength, etc.)?

And we can deal with that issue if and when it materializes. It is not in question now, and has no bearing on the decisions to cover these procedures in the near future.

Would you consider your life to be that cheap if you were still in the womb and others were deciding whether you lived or died? Would you measure up to your own standards?

I don't know, and it does not matter. My mother was strongly pro-choice. She felt that she wanted kids. My opinion now should have no bearing upon decisions she was making regarding her health when I was not a sentient entity.

Spoken by someone who has never taken it and therefore can only produce baseless criticism

You are correct, I have never taken Latin, and as such I may have overstepped in my earlier judgement. For that I apologize, my snarky comment was unjustified.

I tend to be a pragmatist, and some things appear less useful in our modern corporate culture than others. This tends to bias me.

Eng: assuming sincerity of your comment, and I do assume sincerity. Latin opens a world of languages to people--(or a European world at least). Quite a few of my students are multilingual as am I. Two years of Latin makes learning any language far easier. A fair percentage of my former students now make their living putting their language skills to work throughout the world. I have a deskdrawer full of thank-you's from them. I treasure them all. A note of humor. Across the hall from my room is our art center--making ornate as well as utilitarian baskets is part of the curriculum there. We don't do the papyrus thing...

As with this whole issue, I keep thinking about a Stephen Hawking, or a Stevie Wonder, or a Mia Hamm (born with a club foot) or anyone with genetic issues that someday we might be able to detect in utero. What we do with that info speaks volumes about what kind of people we are. The info itself is OK as is the obtaining of that info.

This whole business can be abused. It already is being abused in India in an easily seen manner that even HuffPo documents. If pre-natal testing gets very good at specifics, and I believe it will, will people then "special order" human beings and throw out the one's who don't measure up (intelligence, size and strength, etc.)? Would you consider your life to be that cheap if you were still in the womb and others were deciding whether you lived or died?

Lay off the Sci-Fi movies, they are clearly frightening you. Were you this hysterical when microwaves and cell phones were introduced? It's called progress. No matter how scared you are, or how many chicken little cries you cry, it will continue.

Sally: Whatever. By the way, don't open up a psychic hotline anytime soon. You are so far wrong about what motivates me--but then again, maybe you're used to being that wrong.

This is exactly correct. You hit the nail on the head.

You did hit the nail on the head there. The less education about a topic a person gets the more easily s/he can be led. That is what it is all about. No need to learn anything about this situation!! I talked to a few religious friends and did a little web surfing, so I know what you need to do here. Oh no, no need to go read or ask experts, and hey, don't bother with that annoying thinking, either....I can tell you what your family should do because my beliefs are the only thing you need to know. It'll all be okay now. No need for that pesky science or math or English. Here, say these words and read this book I gave you and there's nothing else you need to know.

We already have that in the public schools, thanks to the NCLB. It's called "scripted lessons" and "teaching to the test". Thank G. W. Bush.

Why do you think he was thrown out of Pennsylvania. Actually, he didn't have to be thrown out, since he was already living in Virginia while a Senator from PA. Even home schooled his children, in Virginia, with PA taxpayer money. He also loved earmarks. He loved Sen. Arlen Specter, the scourge of the PA GOP. Hmmm...with those credentials, Rick sounds like a RINO!

If you look at his platform you can see he does encourage ignorance. He would like everyone to be programmed to blindly nod while their decisions are made for them.

I know I don't want him in my bedroom or in my doctor's office telling my doctor and me what we can do with MY health and that of my daughters. Scary stuff here. And yes, they would be fine with a woman dying (unless it's Rick's wife, and then the story is different), and who's to say women who miscarry won't be investigated as they are in some countries? Scary stuff.