@ ruken,

because that goes against their own self-interests... that's why they have no problem cutting Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, Food Stamps, WIC, education funds, CDC, FCC, etc. it doesn't affect them...

They get lifetime health-care that is vastly superior to mainstream health-care, and they b*tch about other federal workers' benefits?

Because their do-do's, do as i say not as i do

Congressional benefits are sweet, hmm?

There is a balance to the argument. Government employees should not enjoy better benefits such as retiring after only 20 years, and contribution to pensions should be measured against contribution to Social Security if they are to collect both.

But as with the fictitious "welfare queen" it is a lie that federal or union workers are making a lot more than the private sector. Most government jobs offer low pay, for example teachers, especially considering the college degrees and certification required. Attacking teachers, librarians, janitors, sanitation workers, etc. is just wrong.

Instead of they typical Teapublican Race to the Bottom mentality, the real issue is the private sector has been losing their benefits, cost of living adjustments, etc. -- Heck, compared to other countries, everyone should get all the federal holidays off and more vacation time. What we really need to do is to create a tide that lifts all boats.

Just another shell game by congress.

First you pay your employees, then jack up their contributions into the pensions and health care. End result is the government has more money to piss away on other pork barrel crap . Or maybe just maybe pay down the national debt. No matter how you cut it . Congress is out to screw us big time. They don't live in the same world we the 99%er's do. After all we just pay the bills.

bob

GAO said there was 180 billion in waste and duplication in that federal bureacracy. Yet any time someone suggests making the federal worker face the same kind of adversity that private sector workers endure the cry goes up that they are attacking the middle class. That area inside the Beltway is the aristocracy of this country - less than 4% unemployment - and the rest of us are told to eat cake! Their pensions and health benefits are scandalous and they pay virtually nothing into it. Today we learned on Fox News that while new federal employees are seeing their premium payments going up .75% the millions of present federal employees are not being asked to do so. Their added costs will be paid by private sector taxpayers even while we pay so much more for social security that gives back scraps compared to what those federal employees receive. Once again Obama pays off public sector unions as his propaganda machine criticizes the GOP for seeking to bring those cretins back to what the rest of the middle class pays and receives.

Cutting congressional benefits would do virtually nothing since there are only 535 of them. There are millions living off this taxpayer dole in the bloated wasteful federal bureaucracy and yet when anyone suggests that something be done the media hypes it as an attack on the middle class. The federal employee is getting away with murder here!

They don't lead let alone by example. Yet they have no trouble cutting my salary or making me pay more for my retirement. Hypocrits. By the way TruePatriot-445959, I don't know what government you are talking about but as a federal employee, I can tell you it is 30 years, not 20 and age over 58. They are also talking about uping the years to 35 now too & the age to minimum of 60.

Watermoon

You must come to understand this !! They are talking about screwing the front line craft employees . All the fat and duplication of services you talk about is at the top. Granted there is some savings there if cuts are made in those areas. The federal system is screaming for a major overhaul!!! But once again politics enters the mix and says NO NO NO not me or in my back yard you don't.

bob

Great job, Republicans. Go after the little guy. Forget about the waste, fraud and billions of dollars for corporate welfare to big oil.

It isn't about leading by example and cutting their own pay and benefits. The Rs and Ts are taking a page out of Newt's playbook and demonizing federal employees. It is so much easier to attack federal employees than to have to lead by example and cut their own pay and benefits. Remember the run-up to last year's shutdown? When a bill was proposed to stop pay and benefits to members for the duration of any shutdown, the R caucus howled like a stuck pig and refused to put it to a vote.

Our Senators and Congressmen don't pay in to Social Security, and, of course, they don't collect from it.

The reason is that they have a special retirement plan that they voted for themselves many years ago. For all practical purposes, it works like this:

When they retire, they continue to draw their same pay, until they die, except that it may be increased from time to time, by cost of living adjustments.

For instance, former Senator Bradley, and his wife, may be expected to draw $7,900,000, with Mrs. Bradley drawing $275,000 during the last year of her life.

This is calculated on an average life span for each.

This would be well and good, except that they paid nothing in on any kind of retirement, and neither does any other Senator or Congressman.

This fine retirement comes right out of the General Fund: our tax money.

While we who pay for it all, draw an average of $1000/month from Social Security.

There's only a 16% disparity between public and private sector workers' total compensation package.

And considering that many private sector workers don't even have health coverage, I wouldn't say that federal workers are overpaid. A lot of private corporations are just too damn stingy to give their workers basic benefits, despite recording record profits.

Health and pension coverage for recent college graduates, 1979-2009

And speaking of profits, since when did ANY federal worker make $882 MILLION a year? That's the average earnings of EACH of the top 25 hedge fund managers in America.

Using newly available data from 2009 corporate tax returns, the [Commerce Department] raised its estimates of corporate profits by 8.3 percent for 2009 and 10.8 percent for 2010.

The new figures indicate that corporate profits accounted for 14 percent of the total national income in 2010, the highest proportion ever recorded. The previous peak, of 13.6 percent, was set in 1942 when the need for war materials filled the order books of companies at the same time as the government imposed wage and price controls, holding down the costs companies had to pay.

Employees have always received more than half the total national income, until now. In 2010, the percentage of national income devoted to wages and salaries fell to 49.9 percent, and it slipped a little more to 49.6 percent in the first quarter of this year. That continued decline may help explain the economic worries of many Americans who have jobs but still fear they are falling behind.

So should federal employees be forced to match this "race to the bottom" fueled by pure corporate greed? I think we should all tell the GOP that we know who they're really working for.

unity, you don't know what you're talking about. Congress does pay into SS, they have since 1984. They also don't retire at full pay. It depends on years of service. But never full pay. Do some checking before posting.

John McCain gets 100% disability from the VA and is still fit enough to hike the Grand Canyon. Hypocracy at it's finest.

you just can't believe what you read on the internet...

Really your going to call a man who spent years in the Hanoi Hilton anything other than sir! Im betting at his age he is still mean enough to kick your butt! Im not even a McCain supporter, I am however a Navy vet and a patriot.

@ Watermoon: I think part of the problem that you're not really understanding is that private sector workers have been subjected to pay and benefit cuts the entire time this recession has been going on. In addition to that, they've been forced to increase their own production by at minimum 100%, because rather than hiring to fill vacant employee spots, they simply share the work among the remaining employees. The overall disparity in compensation packages would likely not be as dramatic, if the private sector weren't holding onto record profits, while requiring more out of their workers, and paying them less.

If this were normal times, and Fed workers were getting paid more, I'd be inclined to agree with them taking a pay cut, but I don't believe the entire story is being told here, only what the GoP wants everyone to hear.

That lifetime health care nonsense is for the birds. They should get sufficient health care while they're in office, just like any other employee.

Ruken,

RE: your post #1

Do you actually even begin to believe that these politicians would do something honorable, just, and smart? Lead by example? They can't even lead a dog around the block on a leash! But I do agree with your post 100%!

I have known a number of Federal Employees in my life including my Father that stayed in the Federal Government jobs due to a sense of Duty. They made less in wages but the benefits were good enough that they stayed in jobs that were often thankless.

My Father worked as a Physical Therapist for the VA specializing in Para and Quadriplegic care. He could have made far more money in the private sector but having been a Combat Vet himself felt our wounded boys deserved far better than most of the care they often received.

He stayed in the VA system despite what seemed to me to be thankless work. The Administrators and Politicians he often had to deal with drove him mad, but he stayed. It makes me incredibly angry when I hear these right wing scumbags rant about the "huge pension plans" of federal employees.

My dads buddies that worked in their own practices worked maybe 32- 40 hours a week, played golf and lived extremely well. My Father not only worked probably 60 hours a week at the VA but also ran a number of other businesses to give us the best life he could. He now is retired and lives a fairly modest life. After 35 years of service taking care of our wounded boys he deserves every penny he is paid!

I compare this with the FACT that a congressman makes $185,000 a year for life after two years of "service" and I get nauseous!

If the GOP wants to reform the Federal pension system they need to start with their own! These scum bags want to cut pensions of everyone from COMBAT VETS to VA nurses yet they collect insane packages after just two years! Crazy!

Aren't soldiers Federal employees?

Maroon: You misunderstand the GAO report. That wasn't an indictment of the WORK FORCE. It was a critique of how some of the agencies are run---it's programs and policies. Federal employees already live under a wage freeze and have had far more reductions in the workforce that the private sector...They also are required to have a much higher level of education (at least a four year degree) than most jobs in the private sector.

The REAL reason the federal workforce is targeted is because they are an easy target in every economic downturn from the usual (hey I don't have a job...why should you?) crowd. And one other reason: most Republicans assume most of those receiving a federal paycheck must be democrats and wouldn't vote for them anyway.

All you who vote against your practical self interests in favor of taught paranoia would do well to look again at your teachers. They never vote against their self interests. Fact, they are always willing to trade you all the goofy paranoia you wish, in exchange for their relief of legislating policies in your interests. Course republicanism has always fit well with fierce superstition, and fantastic imaginings.

Why not clean up government waste and fraud? Then, implement a fair tax code where all pay according to income, stop the loop holes!

This country can only "kick the financial responsibility can" down the road, so long.

America, the most corrupt bought and paid for political leaders money can buy!

Let's entertain the cuts to congress and the White House. What would be a comparable job in a corporation.

President & Cabinet underpaid

Senator - similar to Regional VP - probably underpaid

Representative - similar to a Plant - might be right might be over paid, might be underpaid

I guess you get what you pay for.

It's a right-wing-driven, financial race to the bottom for the working and middle classes in this country.

Their goal is the elimination of the unifying federal government, and have it replace it with enfeebled state governments, puppet-controlled by the self-serving, special interests as mapped out by wealthy corporate executives -- like the Koch Brothers -- that want to be the new robber barons of America, under the guise that they are patriotically working for your "libertarian" freedoms.

I support having some of those Federal Workers, along with MOST elected "representatives", join their soon to be unemployed Military brothers and sisters, because there are far too many mouths for Uncle Sam to feed!!

I also have NO PROBLEM with civilian government employees being asked to put more into pension funds. Our Federal Government, along with far too many state and local governments, seems to be oblivious to the economy of the last 4 years, with a perfect example being the U.S. Senate bailing out their barbershop to the tune of $300,000, thanks to barbers who make nearly six figures a year.

It is high time the government got "right-sized" like a civilian corporation during hard times.

Heck, these elected officials won''t even play by the same rules and not use inside trading info to either sell or use for their own gain. Why would anyone expect them to do something to hurt their own self worth. They should cut their own pay and benefits to show how serious they are about fixing our national deficit. Let's don't hold our breath on that one.

Someone ask why not clean up the waste fraud and abuse in Washington? Well the answer is simple, there is no leadership in Washington. Only a bunch of overpaid bureaucrats using the system for their own personal gain. They all say exactly what you want to hear to get themselves elected, but once in it is a whole different story. None of them care what they do to this country, or what it costs. Washington has never fixed anything, they can do nothing more then make every problem facing this country worse. Who is to blame for that situation, the voters who constantly send the same people to Washington but expect different results.

As long as Washington can keep the voters divided they win. People pointing fingers, blaming the other guy keeps them in power. So either united we stand or divided we fall. I say we are probably going to fall with the partisan political atmosphere in this country.

So Federal workers get 48% more pay and benefits than private sector workers, and we're supposed to feel sorry if they pay a little more for their fat pension plans?

Sorry - I think it's ridiculous that Federal workers get both much higher compensation PLUS ridiculously costly pensions that allow many to retire at age 55 with virtually full pay - at taxpayer expense PLUS virtual job security for life.

The reason that Democrats protect them is because they vote Democratic by about 70% v 30% for Republicans.

What's REALLY funny is they claim "Our pay is higher because we have more experience on the job", but the reality is that's because the incompetent ones can't be fired, and few of them will quit and give up such a 'gravy train'.

Once again, Reteapuds attack the middle class, be they federal workers or not, to protect the largess they lavish upon the military-industrial complex and others bastions of big money...

The game is over...everyone knows it but them...

I'll take 99-to-1 odds any day. And Roy, you are NEVER going to a member of one of the 400 richest families in America, or directly enjoy their patronage, so why would you support their agenda? It's irrational.

As an employer, I keep a list of Employees with Obama bumper stickers on their cars ("OBAMA 2012" stickers top the list) so I know who to let go first when I have to reduce my workforce.....We need to do the same in federal employee parking lots, for when the Change America Needs to Survive happens in November.....

There is no reason why the "Protected Class" of federal workers needs to have the Democrats in Congress fiercely defending and sheltering them from President Obama's "Shared Sacrifice"...

2.3% to their own retirements is outrageous ????

If you would truly reduce a workforce based on political affiliation, instead of their proficiency at their jobs, you are doing those Obama fans you dismiss a favor, because there can be little doubt that with your SHEER INCOMPETENCE as a manager, they'd be unemployed soon enough anyway !!

I will never make a professional decision based on a worker's political affiliation, that's not only wrong, but downright Un-American !! Workers should be kept or dismissed after reviewing the value they have for the company, nothing more and nothing less. Getting rid of a performer who happens to wear a different political jersey than yours is simply stupid.

That said, as previously stated, those Federal Workers who are being asked to contribute more to their retirements should be happy, because if I had my way, far fewer of them would be employed (based on not only the need for their position, but their performance in that position) !!

xrayspex....Un-American my eye !!......They're all about the same proficiency.....Now if/when I have to let some go....The people that support the President and his polices on taxation and business, should be the first ones again to feel the effects of those policies on my business....What good is FREE Employer paid for birth control pills when they don't have a job anymore cause my premiums went up......

P.S....Just wait till the find out how much the COBRA premium is to keep the same insurance they used to have.....$585.00 a month last time I heard.....( In NY )

I thought federal workers would be doing like Pres Obama said- paying their fair share. Nobody benefitting from their pension more than them, so why not?

Unity is so wrong when it comes to Social Security and congressional pensions that one wonders where he has been for the past 25+ years.

As for McCain--graduate from Annapolis at the bottom of his class. Crashed how many aircraft? Had his father and grandfather not been Admirals he would have had to find another line of work.

I'm honestly amazed at the amount of ignorance and misinformation posted here. EVERYONE pays into SS, to include politicians. Politicians have the same retirement plan as all federal employees. Politicians do NOT get a lifetime pension after 2 yrs of service.

What I keep hearing here is a lot of sour grapes from people hating the players and not the game. Each and everyone of you had, has, or will have the opportunity to apply for federal employment. In fact, recruiting stations are open now for the extremely adventurous among you.

Equivalent compensation of Federal employees to their private sector counterparts would result in a long term reduction as the private sector has been getting screwed over on wages and benefits for decades now. Soon enough the majority of us can all work for minimum wage.

Depending on what area of the gov't you work, the bennies are not better then private. I work for the VA, and make less money then the private hospital across town. Also, since I was hired at the top of the ladder, I haven't got a raise in 2 years and will never get a raise enless it is a COLA. And as far as the pension, I will recieve a pension after 20 years of sevice, however, it is 20% of my base pay. Wow, I can really retire with that. I will be able to keep health care, again, however, I pay what everyother fed emp pays. So, it is bare bones with high co pays. Again, yeah for me. I will also, still have to pay my share of medicare, even though I have private insurance. Yeah for me!!!!!!!!!!!!

The last I knew, Congress are also federal employees but I never hear them demanding they take a pay cut or cutting their benefits. Usually federal employees have to work 30 years to recieve full benefits but congress only have to do 2 terms for their benefits, retirement, healthcare,etc. I wish the GOP puppets would start leading by example before going after those federal employees who earn on average $50,000. The GOP puppets are against working class, women, gays, blacks, latino's, asains, in fact any American who isn't a christain white male and wealthy.

So, Mike who wishes he were in Del Ray, which one of your two employees are you going to let go? Your wife or your daughter? Shouldn't be too hard for you. Most of your ilk are misogynists anyway. Fire them both and hire a couple of men for your lawn mowing business. Just make sure they're legal. You wouldn't want to be a hypocrite when you go on an anti-illegal rant.

Oh, by the way Mike, why don't you post the name of your business and the real location so we don't accidentally insult you by spending any of our useless liberal welfare dollars on you and your "company"?

Sorry - I think it's ridiculous that Federal workers get both much higher compensation PLUS ridiculously costly pensions that allow many to retire at age 55 with virtually full pay - at taxpayer expense PLUS virtual job security for life

Roy made a statement similar to this one yesterday, and if anything his statement today is even more incorrect than the one he made yesterday. If you belive the federal employee retirement system is too generous, that's fine. But post the real facts. "Retire at age 55 with virtually full pay," is a blatant mistruth. It seems to me that Roy doesn't check the facts he likes to post, or else he intentionally posts misleading comments.

The normal full retirement age for federal workers is 62. The youngest age someone can take early retirement is gradually increasing, and the earliest age someone can retire now is 56. But to retire early, they lose 5% of their retirement pay for every year they retire early. The federal retirement benefit is generally one percent of pay per year worked, so someone who retires with 25 years gets 25% of their pay in retirement, hardly full pay. And if they retire at the earliest age, that amount is reduced by 30%. So someone with 25 years service who retires early basically recieves 17.5% of their salary in retirement. Perhaps generous, but hardly what I'd consider full pay.

Marlen- McCain is the one guy I would never argue about getting 100% disability from the VA. Did you forget he spent 5 1/2 years as a POW being tortured in Hanoi? His sacrifice for the country is worth more than he will ever get back- and this thinking stands for any Republican or Democrat who gave the same. Anyone who thinks these men who served don't deserve disability are just dumbasses. And I don't care if he does backflips down the street.

The GOP has gone WAY too far. Anybody see that story about Benton Harbor, Michigan? They fired the local mayor and sold off the town's property, all as part of a corporate ploy to build a golf course.

If you vote Republican and are not a millionaire, you are voting against your self-interest

Federal union employees, state and local govt employees and their partners in greed the private unions have been afforded wages and benefits that normal people can only dream about.

They are no longer middle-class but upper middle to near 1% ers compared with most.

The less we do to correct this imbalance, the closer we get to Greece and the rest of Europe.

While our children scrape by trying to pay off college loans, these modern day fat cats pay near nothing for benefits and are paid handsomely to boot.

While they are at it, shut some of the college curriculums off that perpetuate occupations with no future employment possibilities ( social workers, teacher mills, sciences with nothing but lab tech jobs).

14% percent increase during obama recession is criminal.

Good point, Ray. Homeland Security is the fastest growing agency.

And they also took the student loan program out of the private sector - costing jobs there - and added it to the bloated federal bureaucracy.

RAY

A large number of the employees in the agencies you refer to were transfers from other federal agencies. Case in point Home land Security. A large number of them came from The Postal Inspectors, and other federal police agencies. Once you have a carrier appointment in federal service you can transfer to any other federal agency as long as their is an opening there and you qualify for it. They also do it to make it look like they are cutting back on employees in other federal agencies. It's an old game known to insiders.

bob

watermoon

They put the student loan program under the federal umbrella. Just so they could squeeze more money out of people and put it into the federal coffers. A back door way to bring in more money for themselves.

bob, actually with the total government control now of student loans, they will be cheaper. So you are another one that does not know what you are talking about.

verno

PLEASE EXCUSE ME

My youngest son has out student loans, never missed a payment. The government took over student loans. My son was do for a 1% reduction in the rate of interest on his loans. The fed took over at that point and tried to screw him out of that reduction. It took a fight and letters to congressmen, along with proof he didn't miss a payments. So don't tell me I do not know of what I speak!!!

bob

verno

One last comment on your statement. Any time the government gets involved with anything the cost goes up period.

bob

Bob - I currently have student loans and the interest rate is lower than any private loan you could ever find. And interest is deferred until graduation.

donai006: You would be correct.

I believe there are over 2.6 million, non-military, Federal employees today. Almost all are in non-partisan career positions. So you can assume that about half these used to be Republicans. How many of those do you really think are going to stay loyal to the party that would openly cut their throats?

Come November, it is not all that unlikely that this and other degrading of Federal employees by the Republican party, could cost them a million votes. And probably more when you consider State and local government employees too, who have also been hit badly in Republican controlled regions.

Interesting bit of data. Did you know that at the end of Reagan's two terms the number of non-military employees was over 3 million? That is right. Under President Obama there are more than 10% less Federal employees than under Reagan. You remember Reagan right? You know, the guy who was against big government,while at the same time increasing it by about 10%. The first President Bush left it about the same. President Clinton cut it by over 12%. Under President G W Bush, it went up about 2.5%. Initially, under President Obama, the numbers rose slightly for the census, but today they are back down to equal or lower than where he started. If you look at all "government" jobs in total, the decline during President Obama's years in office have been cut substantially. Arguably, a lot of that came from local government cuts, but the reality is that government has decreased in size, not increased over the last three years. Funny how the rhetoric and the data don't match.

New Day,

Well Said!!!!

The main reason the unemployment numbers are still in the toilet for Obama is the steady loss of Government JOBS.

Yes private Sector Job growth under the Obama Administration has seen over two years of steady GROWTH.

It is in the GOVERNMENT JOBS sector that we have continued to see losses.

Arguing with the right is like arguing with petulant adolescents they have no clue what the Facts are so they just make @!$%# up!

Verno

Have you noticed the interest increases along with tuition?

That's a ticking time bomb. More loan money = higher tuition. Higher interest, more debt. Endless spiral

They could fire 25% of that bloated federal bureaucracy and not skip a beat. GAO said that there is 180 billion in waste and duplication there and yet no one is ever fired. The best one can hope for is that they will let the useless job go by attrition when the slug presently getting paid for doing nothing retires - and retires with an incredible pension and health benefit. Even the GOP is only asking that as three useless jobs retire maybe we could fill two of them to continued in the duplication.

I have two friends that were both hired into the IRS just before they froze hiring. They were both senior project managers. They both quit 3 months later when they realized that getting anyone to work was impossible. Most people cross reported to 2 or 3 managers and when one would ask for a task they would say .....I dont have the time Bob has me doing ........etc. When managers would talk they would say.... hey its Union rules we cant change them. So nothing got done..frustration set in and they were gone. Both directors at great corporations now!

anti-trust proponent - while coming from from the VA today after my husband had eye surgery - there was a gentleman on the radio that talked about these 401Ks who said - beware of the hidden costs - congress struck down these need to know hidden costs - his advice was to seek your local Credit Unions - by pass these Wall Street driven 401K's and opt to deposit your money there - 401K's are for Wall Street

Learn to manage your money

I stand amazed at the poor debate skills most possess. The habitual inability to stick to the subject at hand is mind-blowing.

What I have learned is that often liberals tend to engage in a lot of deflection and/or "kill the messenger" type of attack when they strongly dislike the message. Neither approach offers an answer to the question put forth.

This article is not about Congress. It's about whether it's fair for federal workers to pay slightly more into their own pension.

It's like when a parent comes down on a kid for doing something they weren't supposed to do and the kid points fingers at other siblings, or the parent. Such a tactic makes it clear that 1) the kid knows what they did was wrong; 2) they are trying to absolve themselves by pointing out the guilt of others 3) they have no good reason or justification for what they did.

Deflective tactics by commentators sound just as lame and childish.

If you can't focus your thoughts enough to answer the question put forth, you need to step back and figure out what prevents you from doing that.

Such deflection is a huge part of the reason it's hard to find answers to problems. We have to spend considerable time backtracking to re-discover what the original point was before we can attempt to answer it-- again.

There are a few that are Doctors that couldn't get another job. Every gov dept has those.

laut - Today and yesterday my husband had a hole in his retina and was repaired - 19 opthamologists on staff

Do you know how many at Madigan in Washington State services? 180,000 people come from Idaho, Oregon, Montana and Wyoming - and they are beautiful people

Takes care of marines, army, navy, family services and saw many Korean veterans there and they stay not because of money as laut said because of dedication and love of their fellow officers and families

And most of all at a price lower than the going rate

Medicare - guys - 3% overhead and VA matches that

They did it to the private sector by not enforcing our laws.

Thats what I do now...... I like it and I got an 8% raise and a 10% bonus this year. Since I lost money due to insurance premium increases, the increase helps. Plus the wife said I could buy a new set of golf clubs. Win Win

I'm for anything that advances anyones golf game. Kudos.

What laws?

This would probably actually save money in terms of regulation as well.

One government health-care benefit system, it would also expose the politicians to how broken VA health-care can be.

I would love to have the benefits military retirees get: retire after 20 years and get half pay for the rest of my life; $520 a year for the family's health insurance, a free Medicare supplement for me and the wife when we turn 65, the ability to shop in military commissaries, the list goes on...pretty sweet benefits if you ask me. Better than any other federal employees.

Foggy Dew:

You forget the mental hazards of war. Quite frankly I couldn't imagine what some war vets have seen and how it plagues them for the rest of their lives.

VA should be better health-care than Congress / POTUS. Especially in terms of mental health.

Not the other way around.

Foggy would run and hide if he had to pick up a weapon and defend!

Sure, Foggy, and all you have to do for it is to put a hundred pound pack on your back and hike around Afghanistan, or someplace worse, while people are shooting at you and land mines are blowing up everywhere. But, you do get to shoot back.

Foggy Dew - If You wanted those benefits why didn't you enlist - put your butt on the line You know you had the choice and you decided to sit it out So don't cry now - what a baby - Aw poor guy, you too could have gone to Iraq or Afghanistan and come back in a body bag - why didn't you?

So now your crying our honorable men and women who did this are not entitled to the best we can give them?

You picked a great name for yourself - foggy dew

Not until they are willing to have their arms or legs blow off. Federal employees will never be in the same league as armed forces.

Pul-lease!

Not everyone who serves in the military goes to Iraq or Afghanistan. My time in the service was spent in Germany and the US--during the Viet-Nam era. Not exactly hazardous duty.

Ahhh, a little late to reply, but to all those who questioned my character, I served eight years in the Marine Corps and - while it wasn't much of a war it was the only one we had at the time - did my time in the Gulf during Desert Storm. Later on that year I served a tour in Gitmo - I arrived on Thanksgiving Day while my family was eating dinner and wondering why I wasn't there. I eventually got out, used my GI Bill to go to college (stayed in the reserves while I was in school) and am still serving this fine country we call our home to this day. I've humped the humps and popped the blisters that came with them. I've done my time in the field and later pulled the finest chiggers and ticks North Carolina could offer out of my skin. I've stood post in the wee hours while the rest of America slept peacefully.

Don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. I know exactly what I'm talking about.

And Barbara, just so you know, The Foggy Dew is a song celebrating the Easter Uprising of 1916 in Dublin. It's a song of war. So yes, I did pick the perfect name.

what happened

Who gave them the right to put themselves above the law ????

ans. THEY DID !! It was easy. THEY JUST PASSED A LAW EXEMPTING THEM SELVES FROM THAT LAW AS THEY HAVE DONE MANY A TIME BEFORE.

bob

That is my point. We have a congress that no longer works for the people, only themselves.

How stupid are the American people to put up with it and allow it to continue.

I make 12.50 an hour and must care for two teenagers try to make it on that

Send Mr Obama your resume. He says he has some pull!

I can afford to live on $15 an hour and I am now, I went from $30/hr with full benifits to $15/hr and no benifits, but I don't have kids, my house is paid off, my truck is 10 years old and I never use credit cards so they change wasn't that big of a deal. Most of the guys I worked with said they wouldnt get out of bed for less than $20 an hour and they are still unemployed. They gave me a hard time for taking the low paying job I did rather than going on unemployment,I have only applied for unemployment once in my life (and I am old....er) and I was denied because I missed a conference call due to being at a job interview at the time.

Thats why the Republicans want right to work so they can pay you like slaves and people buy into it.

And even if you could afford to work for it why would you want to knowing that people are getting filthy rich while you eat beans .Makes no sense

Now all we need is cars to be $10,000.00, houses $50,000.00, and college $5,000.00.

That's when things got out of control....Everyone got greedy and it is no longer possible to make $10 an hr and raise a family.

Everyone is to be blamed...where and when it started is up to debate.

I think the 1 st gas crisis was to blame

Gas was 45c a gallon and skyrocketed.....everyone saw this as a chance to raise prices and everytime the gas goes back down, the price gouging remains.

It cost $10 more in gas to take the same product the same distance, but the price of the product ( let's use eggs, of which the truck carries 2,000 dozen) goes up 50% ( .75c per dozen ) that's $1,500.00 for a $10.00 increase in gas.

What a rip off

Where does it say the GOP is laying of federal workers anywhere in this article? Eliminating jobs through attrition is not laying off anyone. Its eliminating that specific job when someone voluntarily quits or retires. Why don't you try to actually read something and understand it before you spout your partisan bs?

STLMIke - doesn't that mean someone won't be hired who otherwise would have been?

Sounds like cutting jobs to me.

I thought the article was the GOP asking federal workers to pay more into their pensions? Most other workers do just that. What's the actual problem with that?

Federal workers do not get their pensions for free. They pay into it like everybody else, and they do pay into social security, too. You old codgers are thinking of the CSRS federal system from the olden days. Now it is FERS and federal workers pay just like private sector workers do into their retirement.

Real

That's like instead of increasing the fed budget 6%, they increase it 3%....dems like to call that a cut...

Where did that type of math accounting ever start?

Or in Congress' case, just pay the rich less.

No, just make the rich that don't pay anything pay. We need to quit attacking the honest rich and ban loopholes and subsidies.

If you're talking Federal government, very few are unionized. The reason why the benefits were better was because the pay was worse. Somewhere along the way, the lower skilled federal workers ended up getting paid more than private sector employees with the same skills. As the skill levels increase, federal workers make less than comparable private sector employees. Benefits were provided in lieu of base pay, because the government will always choose to defer the true cost to the future. As this current bill shows, congress never addresses the real issues, but just uses slight of hand, accounting tricks, smoke, mirrors and illusions to make it look like they're doing something beneficial for the people. This is always true, unless they are doing something to benefit themselves, in which case the benefits are real and not illusions.

You really ought to know what you are talking about before you open your mouth man. I am not an idiot and the union does not bargain for benefits. Benefits are set by congress in their funding bills. The union bargains for working conditions, treatment and policies.

Randy Tampa Bay - You know not of waht you speak And actually isn't Florida a right to work state - lot's of luck with that one!

Randy Bay Tampa - You say unions have the upper hand and why not- hasn't Corporations always have the upper hand? I for the life of me don't understand your reasoning

In Germany - Unions sit on the boards they have a common interest Why do you think Americaqn laborers should not have a common interest?

Who is your god? Corporations or the workers? Get your priorities straight!!!

To all of you who are complaining of public sector wages and benefits: You all had you your chance to join the public sector, but you didn't, as wages and 401K were (at the time) more to your advantage in the private sector. I did not get rich in the military (which included family separation), and I did not get rich working for the post office. I did not hear anyone from the private sector complaining when the money was coming in waves. Since the recession began a few years ago, all of a sudden it is not fair that the public sector has these benefits? I did not have jobs that enabled me to sit around all day and collect a paycheck, I worked very long hours and very hard for 34 years, and I resent anyone that says that I don't deserve the benefits that I receive. CEO's and corporations sit on piles of money, they are part of the problem, not the people that actually, you know, do the work. Point your complaints in the right direction and tell the do nothing congress to do something about that.

Your comments don't surprise me comming from a guy in Florida.(Right to work State)

Lived and worked in that State for 30 years. Worst pay least benefits anywhere. Used to be a lower cost of living but certainly not the case anymore. 7 of the poorest States are southern and right to work.

Business will always go where the labor is cheapest and because of free trade agreements, they are now free to move their enterprises to India,Mexico, China and elsewhere. Take away the American market from these companies and see how fast they relocate.

tregun - I'm waiting for the day when the Justice Department goes after Grover to his ties to the Muslim Brotherhood - couldn't do it now - second term Obama - Yahoo! let's clean house

Ties to the muslim brotherhood??? Too much msnbc for you.

You work for the DNC don't you. Because no real person is that childish, just political hacks.

Explain artificial bottom please.

Is that when someone is really paid what they are worth?

I would say that those people you have listed have educated the population of the truth behind the numbers. When federal workers are seeing pay increase after pay increase and you want to cut my defense it doesn't add up.

Federal employees should be paid at the same rate as private sector employees. The only reason they get raises is the government doesn't know how to run anything. You can't increase pay when you don't have any money.

So the ingoramus seems to on the other side of this debate.

A millionaire banker, a private sector worker, and a union employee are seated at a table when a plate of 10 cookies arrives. The banker takes eight cookies, then turns to the private sector employee and says "be careful of that union guy, he's trying to steal your cookie." For thirty years since the GOP attack on unions, American workers wages have stagnated, and benefits have been slashed, meanwhile income for the upper crust has skyrocketed and their taxes slashed. Corporate interests have held great sway from K Street salesmen and oil companies, Wall Street, while the middle class and poor are told nobody is worried about them. As was stated above union workers aren't overpaid, private sector workers in "Right to be exploited States" have been screwed.

To Devdoc12able, even when businesses have money they syill don't pay, the AT WILL (voluntary), trickle down economics doesn't work & that's why we need MANDATORY PROFIT SHARING & A LIVING WAGE LAW, not a minimum wage law.

To Devdoc12able, even when businesses have money they syill don't pay, the AT WILL (voluntary), trickle down economics doesn't work & that's why we need MANDATORY PROFIT SHARING & A LIVING WAGE LAW, not a minimum wage law.

@Bill-Austin, a PERFECT and accurate synopsis of the GOP's agenda, tactics, and ideology. And it's working. Instead of the private sector being angry about the economic rug being pulled out from under them by the fatcats in pinstripe suits in corporate America, they attack government workers for still having the pay, benefits and pensions they USED to have. My friends in the eighties and nineties who worked for corporate America used to laugh at me for working civil service. They were paid better than me and got bonuses and profit sharing that government workers don't get. As the pendulum shifted, and many of their jobs were outsourced or eliminated, their pensions stolen, or their 401k's devalued, many of them thought it wasn't fair that I was still making decent money and still had a pension. MISERY LOVES COMPANY. The public sector isn't overpaid. the private sector is UNDERPAID. But instead of focusing their wrath at the fatcats in the corporate boardroom, they attack public sector employees just trying to make a living. Typical GOP strategy. Deflect, and refocus.

Bill Austin - How about just woman in general? I don't know how old you are but the backlash from the Clarence Thomas hearings was the time when it motivated women to get into politics

I think this will be a bigger surge!

Little boys - go home take your prepaid Viagra pills and retirement benefits and go home

Plus how do we impeach Clarence Thomas - another Monica Lewinsky?

Barbara.... seems like Santorum is gaining in the polls

Gallup surveys show Americans responding to moral clarity and rejecting feminist propoganda

Bill

talking points rant...doesn't compute

bull.

no, employee pay and benefits should be reflective of job requirements and education. a higher % of public employees are college educated versus the private sector. a lawyer, doctor, forensic scientist or teacher should not be paid on par with someone without a college degree working at a service job like a waitress! stop falling for gop crap! they work to create envy and scapegoats so that people will go after middle class workers instead of focusing on the real culprits of our terrible economy! the rich, wall street bankers and corporations did this and should be paying for it. instead they have convinced people that middle class workers should have to pay for the terrible economy. since if you don't have a pension or health care anymore why should anyone? right. how about you look to your companies and see how those at the top are making thousands of times more than the regular workers, cutting jobs, pay and benefits while making record profits! see the problem? they use the economy as an excuse to take away from workers and want you to be angry at others that still have things that they took away from you! go after the right people!

Yeah, right...

I agree with jjdcc

The problem is, I can choose to buy or not buy a product either union or non-union.

I can't choose that with a govt union employee.

The only way is to change the top which we will do this Nov.

Let's change the top this Nov. to bring sanity back. Especially obama and the knuckle head parade.

mki - well said. CEO's of Fortune 500 companies made 29x their avg. workers pay pre-Reagan and 400x now. That's one reason fewer workers get defined benefit pensions.

mk1 - Lower educated government workers make about the same pay as in the private industry - higher educated government workers make 16% lower than private industry - you have numbers but it does relate to the real truth

Where the devil do you get your numbers from? Would really like to know - they are not factual do- you research or just fed pap?

I wish you could be on Fox and MSNBC. Your comment is the most intelligent that I have heard in the last 2 years. As Bill would say, pithy: short, logical, and makes your point.

Mki

I know, lets pay everyone the same, and move on to real communism...forget all this tinkering around the edges.

Croaker the Toad - Great same should hold true to Congress - call your local representative - republican which I'm sure you voted for and tell him the same thing - no more freebies - trips to wherever during vacation of which they do not work the same hours as government workers and tell them, you want their nonsense to stop and you want to hold them accountable - since having served in Congress they get health care for life and a pension for life putting in 100% less than an average government worker - who by the way puts in twenty years to get what this congressman gets in 2,4,6 years I dare you!

Barbara

Call your friend Michelle and tell her to stop taking million dollar trips and stay home once in awhile and cook one of her yummy meals for her hubby. The one you voted for.

Why does anyone back up one side of congress or the other?

They need a top-down solution. How about in the next election, we only bring back 2 congressmen for every 3 seats that open up?

Why not Matt? The rest of have to work with an open seat that won't be filled anytime soon.

Don't expect anything out of the ordinary from this Congress,, Republicans just neutered the bill that was supposed to stop "Insider Trading" in Congress

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2012-02-09/congress-insider-trading/53025930/1