E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSWhen it comes to donating to charity and church, Mitt Romney is the man to beat.
The release this week of the GOP candidate's tax records cast a spotlight on his considerable wealth, but it also revealed the extent of his generosity.
The records show Romney and his wife, Ann, contributed $7 million in charity over the tax years 2010 and 2011, much of it going to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Romney earned $42.5 million during that period, which means he gave away roughly 16.5 percent of his income. He also paid out $6.2 million in taxes.
On both a percentage and an actual basis, Romney gave away more money than his chief rival for the GOP nomination, Newt Gingrich. He also donated more than President Obama, although the Democrat was not too far behind.
The average person donates 2 to 3 percent of his or her income to charity, experts say. For those who earn $10 million or more, the rate is 6.5 percent, said Joseph J. Thorndike, director of the Tax History Project at Tax Analysts.
"He's pretty generous, and no one can fault Romney for his level of giving," Thorndike told msnbc.com.
"It's remarkable," added Russell James, director of graduate studies in charitable planning at Texas Tech University in Lubbock, Texas. “I have never seen giving at the level Romney is giving at."
A look at others:
-
Obama and his wife, Michelle, donated $245,000, or 14.4 percent, of their $1.7 million total income to 36 different charities, according to IRS documents. The Fisher House Foundation, the Clinton Bush Haiti Fund and the Boys and Girls Clubs of America were among the listed charities. It was the president's highest rate of giving, experts say, adding that Obama's giving has been keeping pace with the increase in earnings from best-selling books. In 2005, Obama's donations jumped to $77,315, 4.7 percent the family's income, and $60,307 (6.1 percent) in 2006. From 2000 through 2004, however, the then-Illinois senator and his wife had donated about 1 percent of their annual earnings, according to The New York Times and TaxProf Blog.
-
GOP presidential candidate Newt Gingrich and his wife, Callista, reported giving $81,133 (2.6 percent) of their $3.1 million income to charity in 2010. The Basilica of the National Shrine in Washington was a big recipient, at $9,540, according to tax records.
-
Vice President Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, donated $5,350 (1.3 percent) of their $379,178 adjusted gross income to charity in 2010.
“Ever since Nixon, presidents and their taxes have been in the spotlight,” Thorndike told msnbc.com. “I’m sure he didn’t know he was going to start the tradition of releasing records, returns that were going to be pored over and read. Since then, there’s also been a strong incentive to not look cheap.”
For the record, former President Richard Nixon reported donating $295 to charity and church in 1972, according to the tax project. That's one-tenth of one percent of his annual adjusted income of $268,777 for that year.
Click below to view tax records of the various candidates (pdf):
- President Barack Obama
- Vice President Joe Biden
- GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney’s 2010 tax return is on his web site, as is his estimated return for 2011
- GOP presidential candidate Newt Gingrich's 2010 tax return
- Notable presidential tax returns on Tax History Project
More content from msnbc.com and NBC News
Leave a Comment:
This article is misleading as it does not mention that Romney is required to give 10% of his income to the Mormon Church to be in good standing. Yes, he still gives a substantial amount to charity, but if you are going to paint him as more generous than the other candidates, at least present the appropriate context.
i agree...church giving is suspect in terms of being generous...since you can be giving out of a sense of obligation, or thinking it buys you a place in the afterlife...which aren't being generous.
If you give money to avoid burning in hell for eternity, it counts as insurance, not charity...
Giving to the church is a thing about faith- if you attend, you give from the heart to support the church and it's outreach. I guess that makes the President Godless by your argument.
BTW- The President is a confirmed 1%er based on this article. Shhhhhhh.
Then there's good 'ol Joe Biden: He charges the secret service to protect him (rents them a place to live) and donates virtually nothing to charity. Check out the great update below:
Washington Examiner - Compare that to when Obama first ran for president in 2008. He released his 2006 tax return, which showed $60,307 in charitable donations out of an adjusted gross income of $983,826.
That comes to 6.1 percent of his gross adjusted income two years before he ran for president.
Obama is overwhelmingly generous compared to Vice President Joe Biden’s charitable donations in 2006.
According to Biden’s 2006 tax return, the couple gave $380 dollars to charity out of his $248,459 adjusted gross income; a percentage of 0.15.
Biden gave less than the average person gives to get the deduction on their taxes. Way to go Joe.
Most Churches want 10%. I've heard stories from Catholics and Jews that they do get instruction on how much they should be giving when they find out what a person's income is.
10% is Old Testament. It is a carryover to give people an idea of what they should give. Usually people just want a limit to what is required.
The New Testament tells you to give "ridiculously" or Hilariously. Everything is God's, and the important thing to do is to give what he asks, even if it is a penney or absolutely everything.
From what I remember of the New Testament, it basically told a story about how a woman with nothing dropping one gold coin in the dish was more generous than the rich man dropping a bag.
How much of that LDS money is being spent to help the poor that are having tough times ?
I, for one, would really like to know how the churches are using their money.
Now you know why I stopped giving to the Catholic Church.
I think this philosophy is most often forgotten when someone is being charitable. In my opinion, a person with less is also less opted to give, in lieu of their own needs. A person with more on the other hand is more likely to give, and still have enough (or more than in Romney's case) for their own needs and wants. Usually the money is not so much charity as it is allowing an organization that endorses the 'charitable' persons ideology or whims. Also it may be so the 'charitable' person gets noticed.
Its quite a pity that we can't give just to give anymore. I'm don't have much money or material possessions, but I enjoy the feeling I get from making someone else's life better whenever I share them.
Actually most Christian Churches suggest a 10% tithe or more. They may not demand, but they HIGHLY suggest, like you will burn in Hell.
At the same time, Televangelists go to a much higher level than 10% (and actually demand) and go more for the older generation giving. Much more. And some have been known to say that God would extract His revenge onto the Evangelist on onto the viewer if the viewer didn't.
Nothing says that he has to be a member in good standing in his church. I think it speaks well of him that he gives so much away.
if you attend church, you give from the heart? sure, for some people..and not for others. Blanket statements about people like that are always wrong. Some people attend church not due to faith, but to be seen and to be considered a community leader. Some people give money out of obligation, or fear, not faith.
and how any of that makes obama "godless" makes no sense.
Corporate,
Their main charity branch is their Humanitarian services, over 1 billion in the last 2 decades:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LDS_Humanitarian_Services
This does not count the many man hours most LDS members also contribute to the community.
Overall they are pretty good at giving and performing charity.
Yes, he does HAVE TO tithe in a way most other people don't. To get a Temple Recommend (which you need to go to temple for everything from seeing a friend/relative get married/sealed to performing the sacraments of the church), you must first demonstrate your worthiness in an interview with your bishop, which includes demonstrating you have tithed (at the full amount unless there are extenuating circumstances). Romney is arguably the most prominent member of the church in the world, is a former bishop himsel, and comes from a very prominent LDS family (google Romney et al v. United States (1890) sometime). Yes, he HAS TO tithe.
The normal Christian "tithing" is giving 10% to those less fortunate. This includes donations to charities as well as the church. In the past it often meant allowing 10% of your fields being left to be harvested by or for the poor.
The LDS view is very different from that of mainstream Christian churches. They believe that you must donate 10% of your gross income in cash to the church. What you give to non-LDS charities is above that 10%. In order to retain their tax-empt status, in 1970 the LDS First President had a vision in which God told him to tell the flock that "every member of the Church should be entitled to make his own decision as to what he thinks he owes the Lord, and to make payment accordingly." There have been a significant number of these visions in the last 40 or so years. Apparently God is obsessed with keeping the IRS happy.
Take it from a card-carrying, temple recommend totin' Mormon - none of us is REQUIRED to do ANYTHING that we don't want to do. Do you want to go to the temple and participate in what we consider to be sacred worship? Then, yes, you should be a full 10% tithe payer. However, when you go through the recommend interviews - you do not have to DEMONSTRATE anything. You are asked a series of questions that are standard throughout the church and one of them is in regards to tithing. You answer according to your own conscience and that's it. You don't have to prove anything... It's between you and God.
I have no idea if my neighbor is a full tithe payer or anybody among my friends or family. They don't know if I am either. We consider it something between us and God. So why can't the cynics simply accept the fact that Romney is generous when he doesn't have to be - even though many (like Michael-1753821) act like they know and claim otherwise. Why don;t we just call this what it is - religious bigotry - and move on with life. If you don't like his politics - terrific. That's valid. If you don't like his religion - that's fine too. But at least have the stones to say it.
The 10% tithe should not be considered a charitable contribution in comparison to others who are not bound by those same religious beliefs.
Not only that, but he benefits from it (directly and indirectly). A real charitable contribution is one that benefits others aside from whatever tax deduction you may get.
For those of you wondering how the LDS church spends the tithes and donations it receives toward to charity and humanitarian aid, look at this site:
$1.3 billion over 25 years, or approximately $52,000,000 per year. And almost all of that goes toward people not of the LDS faith. Not to mention the thousands of boots the LDS church puts on the ground in the form of voluntary community service when areas across the globe are struck by natural disasters.
Looks to me like Romney's donation is going to a good and justified cause.
If you would like to see exactly where the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints spends its money…. Check it out yourself. lds.org/humanititarian/church?lang=eng
I think you’ll be impressed. Be sure to click on Humanitarian activities where you can see where they are helping across the world!
sorry for the typo... try this instead
lds.org >menu >service >humanitarian service
Most Americans wouldn't consider the LDS church a charity. More like a cult. So you could say he gives generously to a cult, which paints his giving in a very different light.
Mitt certainly looks generous, but then again it is a 2010 tax return and he knew he was going to try and run for President. I will say he is generous when I see the rest of his returns.
Nobody does that.
She put in a penny. Her last one. Thanks for pointing that out.
Agreed, and beautifully put.
Offensive. It should have been a very simple matter for you to find out what your church was doing with the money. There's no real shame on you for not bothering to find out, but there is for pretending that Catholic Churches keeps such matters a secret. They don't.
Also offensive.
Again, offensive. I'm surprised that the same person who wrote so eloquently about giving from the heart could so casually slip in so many examples of 'bearing false witness' in the next few sentences. The Obamas gave three times as much money to charity (measured in dollars) than the Gingriches, who had twice the income.
Does that make them 6 times as Godly?
There are a lot of nasty things that can be said about Mitt Romney, but he seems to be sincere in his faith, and giving money to charity is not a bad thing, even if you only do it because it means you can shortchange Uncle Sam.
All this money is doing is funding ignorance about a man who lives in the sky .........religion is the biggest farce in modern society......yet these fools part with their money willingly....as they say a fool and his money are soon parted!!!
Fast offerings are to help people in need. Tithing is the price of admission to the temple and to help the LDS church build its empire here on earth. Joseph Smith also wanted to be POTUS, and did you know the second coming will happening in Missouri? I wonder how FL Jews will react to the church's necro-baptism for holocaust victims? I couldn't even make this type of crap up.
Mitt's problem is not being Mormon. It's being a Mormon who is phony, plastic and KNOWS he is better than others and that his millions are just blessings from god. He's Mormon royalty and his sh*t doesn't stink.
Go to you local LDS church on Sunday morning and ask for help. Better yet, go to one of their temples -- maybe they've installed a soup kitchen by now.
A low income person giving up $20 would be far more generous than a few million from Romney. He still has a few hundred million to live his lavish lifestyle.
Ruken, quite true. Are you against becoming a success? If you built up a business from nothing and became a multi-millionaire, are you saying that your giving of larger amounts isn't good too?
I'm saying that dropping a few million sounds like a lot to us, but to him it's nothing.
It's the people that give their time and money that have nothing that are truly selfless.
@Ruken
Romney gave 6% above and beyond the 10% necessary to remain "in good standing with his Church". Which I'm betting is 6% more than you gave to charity...
Ruken, Mitt Romney does give not only his money, but his time. And, what a wonderful way of giving his time than by being President of this United States.
Oh, I see, it's out of the goodness of his heart that he's running for President, not his worldly ego.
@Ruken: While relatively speaking it might not be a "big deal" because of his wealth, it still helps a lot more people than $10 from someone that can hardly afford it.
It's easy to give your time when you have no job.
oops
Notice that Romney gave most of his money to his church to further their belief that the Mormon Church is the only valid Christian Church as it was supposed to be revealed to Joseph Smith by God. I am not being a demagogue. Just take time to go to the library and read thru compilations of Smith's revelations.
Or watch the Book of Mormon episode of South Park. Surprisingly they give rather accurate accounts of their beliefs.
It would be difficult for most people to receive 42 million in two years without using MOST of it for charitable purposes, but that is not the point.
Mitt supports his church, and he gives to other charitable causes as well.
Those are GOOD things.
(Echh! It hurts to say something nice about Romney, but in this case, he deserves it.)
I wonder how much of mitts 7 million was sent to California to beat back the gay agenda?
Steven- I don't think politically based contributions are tax deductible. I could be wrong though. I'm sure that you could find out where that money went if you want to look hard enough.
He has to pay tithe to remain in good standing with the church--which helped him become rich in the first place. So get your facts straight
_EX Mormon
A tithe is basically a tax as well. So "giving" and "generosity" in this case are heavily misleading.
Joe, it was his church that spent the money....all legal in our right wing nut world.... this link just covers the money the church would admit too.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/01/top-officials-w.html
Steven, Steven, I wonder just what you did to be so bitter and to lie about the Church as you do.
If I have read the Tax Codes correctly, there is a limit to the amount that you can claim as a donation (about 50% for some, and 30% for others). All of the money donated above that is still counted as being your responsibility. Also remember that stock dividends are not treated the same as a paycheck or a normal Retirement pay. Dividends(and SS payment) totals undergo a set of multiplications and subtraction processes which result in the amount placed in your Tax Form as Income (down a bit from normal Income).
The tax rate on qualified dividends is 0% or 15% (depending on the individual's income tax rate). If the individual has a regular income tax rate of 25% or higher, then the qualified dividend tax rate is 15%. If the individual's income tax rate is less than 25%, then qualified dividends are taxed at the zero percent rate. PS: There are also deduction amounts that can be applied other than donations to further lower what is taxable.
Donations limits range from 30% of income up to 50% of income. And if all income is from dividends, you can see how little is reported as Taxes or Donations.
Tax returns in the case of Mitt are useless. He could have donated the amount on his tax form or much, much more. Only he and his CPA knows for sure.
Hey! Since Corporations can now be treated as a person, why not drop the Tax Codes for Corporations and amend the Tax Code to treat them as an ordinary person subject to appropriate Federal and State Taxes. Bet you will hear screams from the Nation's Capital around the world. Not to mention what screams will come from Corporate Headquarters. Be sure that you have earplugs.
Imagine some other side effects. At the present time, there are certain Corporations that can claim Eminent Domain over private and public property. Ordinary citizens cannot claim Eminent Domain over Public or Private Property. Neither should Corporations. Only Cities, Counties, States, and Federal Agencies should have this ability and these should be restricted to special needs only. Additionally, since Corporations are a person, they should be restricted in what they get in the way of special tax breaks, benefits, etc. since ordinary citizens are often denied the same benefits.
Now as to those Quasi-Governmental Agencies and Corporations! (will be continued.)
Being ever vigil should be the trademark of the ordinary citizen.
Diane Brown, Where is the lie?
By "the Church's" own paper work they spent at least $180,000.00 fighting the gay agenda...:)
I'm not sure how Richard Nixon's $295 donation equals one tenth of his $268,777 annual income in 1972. Check your math msnbc.
My guess is they forgot a couple zeroes.
I suspect a typo (I hope so anyway)..its 1/10th of one percent.
He was saving his money for his Library of Fame (now the Library of Shame).
Great!! Mittens donates large amounts of money to a religious cult. Let me run out and vote for him right now!!
mitt is probably a nice, generous guy in his heart. I wouldn't mind living next to him (unlike, say, newt or santorum), you could probably borrow tools from him without a problem. Its a shame he makes a mannikin look lifelike.
He is, but that appears to stop when he wants something, just like any other fallen human.
Well you have to think of how generous is he really? He still has hundreds of millions. Giving up a few million will not affect him at all. He will still have giant estates, limitless personal possessions, etc.
Now, we have many low income families giving to their Church, and they barely make ends meet. Who is really more generous?
Come to think of it...isn't the GOP the bible thumping party? I coulda swore it told this very same story...
Amazing to me how petty you Liberals are. Mitt Romney earned his money and honestly. Petty jealousy What sad people you are!
Yeah, he earned it by getting his dad (the governor) to send him to the best prep schools and by leveraging his name and connections to ensuring his comany thrived, then honestly bought up companies, maxed their credit lines to increase Bain's profits before dumping the empty company and laying off it's employees. Then, he hired armies of lobbyists to ensure he continued to pay a max 15% tax rate on capital gains and carried interest while running for president on a platform arguing for maintaining those cuts while cutting Social Security, Medicare, unimployment insurance and Welfare because "we just can't afford it anymore" (besides, Romney's unemployed himself, so he feels their pain).
What a great role model for all Americans!
1. The Mormon Church is recognized as a true church under all of the State and Federal Codes.
2. The Mormon Church contributes back to the members and non-members much more than other Christian Churches, and far, far, far ,far more than the Mega-Churches and Televangelists ever though of doing (Including the Roman Catholic Mega-Churches).
PS: I'm not a Mormon, a Catholic, a Baptist, a Methodist, or any of your so-called sects. I live under Jesus who was delivered to us for our salvation and to deliver us from the eternal damnation and violence provided in the Old Testament. In that sense, I am a non-denominational Christian, and, as in for my Political affiliation, I am an Independent Voter. I am, also, a strong advocate for the Native American and their belief in the Great Spirit and their adage that if you take care of the land, that the land will take care of you. Another is their strong belief that you should take from the land, only what is needed leaving the rest to those that come after you.
There is no need for the bloggers here to be upset. The vast majority of MSNBC headlines are all biased in the direction of Democrats. They throw one bone to their conservative readers and all these people go nuts.
Hardly, but I suppose compared to Faux it would appear that way to some....
Why are donations to churches counted as charity? The Mormon church is a huge BUSINESS entity that spends tons of money trying to make sure that certain parts of our society are discriminated against (which is especially funny since Mormons have had a long history of being persecuted for their idiotic beliefs). Yes, and to be considered a Mormon in good standing, you MUST tithe at LEAST 10%, so he's not doing it because he's generous, he's doing it because once again, he hopes that makes him move up the ladder to Heaven or wherever Mormons want to go (having a large number of kids also helps). Look at Marie Osmond - married 3 or 4 times and still a darling of the church because of the greenbacks. The Mormons are like so many churches (don't even get me started on Evangelicals, Catholics, and the whole nasty rest of them) -- they care about nothing more than amassing power and MONEY........Mitt Romney is an out-of-touch, born-with-a-silver-spoon in his mouth elitist jerk who cares nothing about we common folk, but ALL about lining his pockets, period.
Let us brake this down:
Religious organization typically use a large percentage of their money to help the community.
I personally don't agree with many of their stances, however they are entitled to support whatever groups that are inline with their values and that of their constituents.
Most religions require tithing of some value. I'm Jewish and I pay a fee at my synagogue which gets used for a multitude of things such as upkeep of facilities, salaries, services(daycare ect), and sent to charities designated via my synagogue.
They simply want to spread their message and what they believe is the way to salvation. This requires money and influence(aka power).
This is a lot, but I'll tackle it. Have you ever met a multimillionaire who wasn't out-of-touch? Do you think people like Warren Buffet live in the real world? He actually made all of his money, so one can't really claim that he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. As to the elitist who cares not for common folk, few do, whither it is Mitt, Newt, Obama, Biden, Chenney. This is the hard truth of things....
i'm not so sure that "a large percentage" of giving to churches "helps the community". well, I guess it depends on what you mean by "large". Most of the churches i've been associated with use most of their money on staff and buildings and programs for members. I guess that also indirectly helps "the community", but not particularly directly.
You also have to look at the fact that the congregation is part of the community. So that salary to say the priest, imam, rabbi, allows for the services provided by the individual, such as marriage counseling ect.
Churches and ministry based services save their states MILLIONS of dollars a year. I live in WA and with the Same-Sex Marriage bill passing it will cause a LOSS in services of $20 Million/year from just ONE ministry.
So let me get this straight. In the same sentence that you criticize the mormon church for being against the lifestyles of someone else, you persecute them for their beliefs. Talk about a hypocritical individual. It's ok as long as it is what you believe right?
again, most of the "services" provided by a church go to their congregation, not the community at large.
I'm far from against giving to churches (having given up to 10% myself in some years), but lets not automatically assume that giving to churches is either 1) generous or 2) helps the community.
Here lies the problem. If taxes are raised do you think he would have donated as much money? When you have less take home income as a result of higher taxes you have less disposable income and as a result a smaller percentage will be donated. This is an across the board statement, not just targeted at Mitt.
From what I'm reading, he has to donate at least 10% to be in "good standing" with his church.
If that is the case, I'm not a Mormon or an expert on such, then one can expect his donations to drop to 10% from 16% if taxes were raised. And all of it would go to the church, and not at all to outside sources as some does now.
Poor Mitt, if he has to pay higher taxes, he'ld only have what, $10 million a year to live on? I'm sure the other 99% of us poor lowlifes will feel sorry for Mittens.
Why didn't he just release is tax forms before the voting or debates began? If so, we won't be having this discussion. But NO, Mittens said he wasn't going to release his tax reforms, then maybe and then he did when push came to shove. Does he wear flip-flops, btw?
Release a few more years and we'll see just how generous he is. Ofcourse he knew these returns would be subject to intense scrutiny. Do dee do dee do? Destroy the country and pay a guilt offering, how nice. Then take social security and medicade and kill thousands of poor older US citizens. WAKE UP AMERICA!
Go back to his Bain years, before he decided to run for president!
Florida GOP tells Fox News 501,316 absentees ballots requested, 254,485 returned; 151,678 early votes cast so far. Early voting ends Sat.
Whoa! Floridians must be away from Florida quite a bit if a half a million will be away Saturday?. Wonder if some of those requesters will still go to their voting place in person? How about requesters that have permanently moved away, instead voting within their new State? Or those registered voters that have failed to vote in other elections that suddenly requested an Absentee Ballot? Or those registered Voters who now reside in a Care Center or not mentally capable of voting either by this way or in person? And the list goes on.
Hey! Where there is a will, there is always a way to do just about anything. And Absentee Ballots are almost impossible to Certify and very easy to obtain. And they can change the outcome in the right (actually wrong) situation.
I'm not a CPA or anything, but aren't you allowed to deduct almost 50% of your gross income from Donations and use that as a write off on taxes or at least losses?
I don't really care, all of these candidates are rich and out of touch ***holes. It doesn't matter who we elect b/c when you get right down to it, they're all the same.
You do get the write-off, but in the form of "reduced taxable income." It's a little more complicated than people think.
Example: Person A makes $100,000 per year, tax liability is ~$22,000, assuming no other deductions, etc. If that person gave $50,000 to charity, their taxable income is now $50,000, and tax liability is now ~$8,000. It did not reduce the taxes by $50,000, but rather, the taxable income.
But could there be a situation where contributing to charity would drop your income down to another tax bracket, and you end up coming out ahead or breaking even had you not give? I've heard of that but never found out if it's true.
Now, now . . . . to a Democrat benevolence only counts when it comes from the government.
I'll leave Obama in for another 4 years because I don't see any of the Republican candidates as better. White and no Obama, but certainly not better. Then we'll get a new crop of candidates from both parties in 2016.
What is Romney going to do to help the working poor or the unemployed? As far as I can tell, everything that Bush did to get us into this mess. Reduce tax for the supper rich which will (NOT) create jobs, deregulate banks and wall street so they can create another bubble, and then start an unfunded war with Iran.
Most of it went to the church??? That's not charity. That's the rich contributing to the rich.
Precisely. Giving to a church is not the same as giving to charity. It may hide the income from taxes in the same way, but it is not charitable giving.
Back in grade school, when I would give offerrings in Sunday school AND church, I thought it was going to help the poor. I found out years later that hardly any of it was to help the unfortunate.
At one point I thought my offering went to God, because that's what I was told. I remember thinking, "how do we send God the money?" I even asked the question of my parents and pastor. They suggested I sit in on the church's finance committee. My offering went to pay the church electric bill, pay the pastor, pay for the parsonage, pay for the synod leadership in another state, and pay for evangelical work (i.e. adding new revenue streams but getting more congregants). None went to taxes, obviously. There was a suggestion to pay for missionaries in Africa, but we didn't have enough at the time. So then I was told my offering was for God's work on earth. But God's work primarily involved making the congregation bigger. I'm not saying evangelism is bad, but it's not charity. It's an industry. The industry's product is new followers and saving souls. Charity is something else. Like SynHolliday says, very little of what a church brings in actually goes to charity.
Ruken, how about doing the math this way... Take 10% of your gross income, and ask yourself, would you be willing to give that up to a charity? It's all relative to what kind of money you are making. According to this article, Romney gives over 16%. Now try that number on for size. My guess is that you give NOWHERE near that number to any charity. I'm really happy that someone is willing to do that, and the fact that he is rich, makes it even better because the percentage means more money. If more people were willing to give to charity, maybe we wouldn't have to pay such high taxes for the government funded charities.
My suggestion for you is to donate 17% + of your gross (not net) income to charity, and then you'll have some credibility when you start talking smack.
@Post-it: Not that I agree with Ruken, but it's more about perspective. If I made $10 million a year, I could happily give away $9 million to charity, and still live like a king.
Hey ,, the man gave 7 million . Not a member of his Church myself , have a few customers that are , the help they give people will make you shake your head .
Generous? Give $100 mill to secular charities and 6 of the 12 houses to a homeless charity. You can then get the charitable deductions, the charity gets the asset and the gain tax-free, and you reduce your vile estate taxes to the government.
Until then, you're just a GOP elephant serving us slobs peanuts.
Tell us: What's $240 mill feel like? Are you more a $50s man than a $20s man? Mill, that is.
"...a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard" Paul Simon, You Can Call Me Al
"We won't get fooled again!" The Who (Mitt: Perhaps you thought it was "The Whom")
@sig: One of the problems with popular "secular" charities is that very little of the money actually goes toward helping people -- similar to the way many non-profits work. Most of the money goes toward "raising awareness" e.g. advertising, asking donations, rather than going to work.
You need to do more research before you speak up. You are correct in most cases. But, for those that haven't a clue, I did my research. The LDS church has the largest group of unpaid leaders in the world. The leaders of the church don't get paid. Most live in modest homes, with modest incomes. Those that are wealthy, are still asked to give 10%. The humanitarian arm of the church has the highest level of actual dollars spent to dollars taken in, meaning that most of the money donated actually goes to those that are in need. No one has to be a member of the church to receive aid. They just have to be willing to return the service in time, if they are able. If the countries welfare system worked like the church system, we would be able to trim billions off the budget, and still help more people. Reagan investigate the church welfare system and thought it was the best system ever developed. The fear was that too many people would take advantage of the US government and never try to "pay it forward" which is what the LDS welfare system is based on. There was a reason that Howard Hughes only trusted Mormons as his financial advisors and body gaurds. He might have been nuts, but he also understood that "faithful" followers are honest and ethical. I did have to preface the "faithful" part. There are those in the LDS church (as there are in any religion) who profess to practice their religion faithfully, but are actually horrible people. I can gaurantee you this. If I give 10% to a honest charity, it will be more effective than if I gave 100% to the government to help the same people.
Yes, LSD leaders are unpaid and live modestly, leaving all the more donation money to be used for thoughtful Mormon moral projects, like working to defeat a California same sex marriage proposition - which many equate to matters of equality and human rights.
LDS leaders are unpaid and untrained and all male. They are called by god to lead and you must obey what they do. But if they do something wrong, like molest a child, the church can say they are not paid employees. Problem solved.
Please, everyone, go to your local Mormon temple and ask for help. Wear a green apron.
This is not an endorsement, but the per cent of charity revenue devoted to program ("program efficiency") is available at http://www.charitynavigator.org/
What MSDNC didn't tell you is that Biden has averaged $369 dollars in donations over the past decade and they barely touched on the fact that Obama donated less than 1% in the years before getting elected to the Senate.
And neither has a Mormon temple recommend, knows the secret handshakes and can wear the magical underwear. Your point is?
Mitty contributed 10% of his earnings as a good Mormon. He should have given more to the poor in other charities. If you have 25,000,000 or 22,000,000 does it matter your lifestyle will not change. He did not say if he wears the special underwear that Mormon men should wear or what this underwear does to a guys private parts. Also, he did not say why NON Morman's cannot attend a wedding in a Mormon Church. Do they do something special to the bride and groom that they do not want others to see. Christians, Jews, and other religions allow people of other faiths to attend weddings in their houses of worship. What is so special to Mormon weddings and why guys have to wear special underwear (if it make my thing larger I might want it).
Non-Mormons can attend a wedding in a Mormon church.
My guess is that you are referring to a wedding in a Mormon temple, which is a different thing. They believe their temples to be sacred, and so they try to protect that sacredness by only allowing members in good standing into them after they have been dedicated. Before they are dedicated, anyone can walk through them and look at them. You can see the rooms where they do the weddings and everything. They call them sealing rooms. The LDS church even dedicated their October 2010 Ensign magazine to teaching non-Mormons about the temple. You can find it on their website if you want.
The reason why they do weddings in the temple is that they believe that they can be married together not just until death, but also sealed together into the next life. According to LDS doctrine, this sealing must be done in a temple by someone who has the proper authority.
Loth
That is the dumbest thing I ever heard about a religion.. Are you telling me that the other religions of the world places of worship are not sacred. Therefore every other wedding I have attended was not sacred to the couple. Other people get married by someone in proper authority. Do you believe in the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, of the elf at the end of a rainbow.
Do we want someone for president who does not allow people of other faiths into the his temple, how prejudice of him. Also what about the magic underwear, what does that do. If it makes me larger could I just purchase that without being a Mormon or do I need to convert.
If you believe in a life after death good for you, I think when I pass on I will be pushing daises or finally be in real estate.
Of course they are sacred. Other places should be held as sacred as described by their respected religion. If I was going to attend a place where the believers were required to remove their shoes, I would do so. If I was going to attend a place where the believers were required to walk on their tiptoes, I would do so (not that I know of anyplace like this, mind you). If I go to a place where the believers require that you be living a morally clean life to enter, I would respect their beliefs as well. Regardless of what a person believes, if they believe that certain practices are sacred, I believe in respecting them.
If I could not do what was asked of me to be in this sacred place, I would not desecrate someones belief by entering. The LDS believe that the way to show your respect for what they consider sacred is by not being in places they consider holy unless you share and practice in their belief.
As far as the magic underwear, it's usually made of cotton or silk, so no superhuman powers. Sorry. Again from the LDS website: "it is a reminder of the sacred covenants made with the Lord in His holy house, a protective covering for the body, and a symbol of the modesty of dress and living that should characterize the lives of all the humble followers of Christ."
As far as the proper authority goes, the LDS church believes the proper authority must be given from Christ. They believe that it was given to Peter, James and John by Christ. The LDS church believes that the priesthood was restored to Joseph Smith by the same Peter James and John. Thus, those given this authority can trace it through their generations back to Joseph who they believe received it from Peter James and John, and in turn, Christ.
The state has full authority to marry whomever they please for the remainder of their life, and this is just as sacred to the couple being married.
Litho
You are brainwashed. I heard before that this religion is a Cult, now after reading what you say it is a cult. My underwear has magic powers also especially when my wife begins to do things to me when I am dressed (I was hoping it would help me).
Do you have a secret handshake, or carry a card when you attend temple so they know you are one of them and not one of us. At least the KKK wear a robe and hood so you know who they are. I cannot imagine a religion that follows Jesus that does not allow others into the temple. I am a very worthy person who follows Jesus but has a mind of my own. I know where I am not wanted and would not want to go into that place.
Begin to think for yourself and realize the world is made up of all different people with different thoughts, just not what your cult leader says. I read there are de-programers that help people break away from cults. Maybe you should see one, spend the money on them vs giving to the cult leaders.
Good luck and maybe you should look at other religions that do not segregate you from your friends who have some other beliefs.
Yes, it's called a temple recommend.
If you believe any of the Old Testament, then you must believe in a God fearing people who would not allow others into their tabernacle. They held the ark to be so sacred that only a specific group was allowed to carry and administer it. Even things within their tabernacle were considered so sacred they had to be covered before they could be moved.
I have looked into a lot of religions, and I did it thoroughly. I reviewed the beliefs of what they believed directly from the source. I am an incredibly logic and critical individual, and am not bound to follow a belief just because someone said this is how it is. Every principle I live I have had to learn for myself, and know why I live them. I had to ask why? I had to ask, if what they are teaching was true, would all their logic make sense? I got tired of hearing "It's just a matter of faith".
I started to believe in this church because after you cut through what the critics and antagonists say (because every belief or non-belief will have them), it held up. I could see the fruit of it. And that was just the start. I later learned that it wasn't just blind faith, that it could be tested. And I did. And I cannot turn back.
And I could not agree more. Think for yourself. Learn for yourself. Make sure you understand principles correctly. I have fought for that right within my own life.
Brigham Young once said, “I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self security. Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not.”
I fully agree with that.
And I have never felt segregated from my friends, whether they were gay or Muslim. I am still friends with them.
I respect how you feel, but must disagree with how you have portrayed me. I wish you the best of luck as well, and leave with another good quote from Young: "A good man, is a good man, whether in this church, or out of it."
Ron, LOL -- "Also what about the magic underwear, what does that do. If it makes me larger could I just purchase that without being a Mormon or do I need to convert."
The temple ceremonies where made up by Joseph Smith to further indoctrinate his followers. I like how members point to Jesus in the name of the church, but will drag out the old testament when it suits them. The Mormon temples also have money changers for those who need to rent the appropriate grab.
On a testimonial Sunday, you will have parents take their young children up to the podium to say they know the church is true and that Joseph Smith was a prophet. Bishops interview children, as young as 12, alone in their offices and may ask them if they masturbate. Members are encouraged to go on a mission, get married in the temple and to start having as many children as they can. All of this is to get people so heavily invested in the church that even the thought of leaving or a family member leaving the church can be traumatic.
This is hilarious; THE MOST GENEROUS....He's only trying to buy his way into heaven. It is one of the tenets of the Mormon religion that he pay 10% of his income. And if you think that he is so generous, ask other Mormons; I'm sure they would like to be thought of as 'most generous' also. Even though they might be upside down in their business. Get out and get your hands dirty, Mitt!
I am not very impressed that Mitt-bot gave millions to the Church of Latter Day Saints. Mormons creed is to help each other - Mitt helps his fellow Mormons not any of us who believe in other ways. He also probably gives to his alma mater and his country club and calls that charity. My belief is that you donate to help others less fortunate, not those who are also among the wealthy elite.
I'd be more impressed if he contributed to Tornado or flood victims in the south, women's shelters, daycare centers for children from low income communities or soup kitchens.
I don't have near the $ as the Romneys and I give to approximately 20 different organizations as well as volunteer my time at several others. I rarely mention what I give because it's between me and my Maker.
It's easier to give away 10% of your income when 1% of it can more than pay for you're yearly expenses...
As opposed to middle class Americans .. who use 50% to 60% percent or more of their income for yearly expenses (mortgage, rent, food, etc..) - %10 becomes a lot in that case
It's called tithing when you give to your church. It's really not charity. Many religions believe it's a way to buy a house in heaven. The Mormon church threatens it's members with hell if they don't tithe enough. They have meetings called Tithing Settlements where the members income and tithes are compared and reconciled. The Mormon church does not divulge how they use the tithes.
Romney is not "generous". Just believes he can be a rotton person and get into heaven anyway with his money! How backwards is THAT?
Here's a link to help understand. #motivation
Tithing settlement is where they give you the piece of paper that says how much you contributed that year, which is then used for your taxes. It also helps to make sure that the funds that you donated went to the right spot. Tithing is usually used for the operation costs of the church, like building and maintaining buildings, as well as maintaining organizations like the missionary program and the welfare program. Fast offerings are specifically used just for giving to welfare. (I just looked this up on their mormon.org website, it wasn't that hard to find.)
The LDS church does not ask how much you made in a year, and they do not look at your tax statement. (which you wouldn't even get for another month, since tithing settlement is always at the end of the year, and you get your tax info at the beginning of the next year). The Bishop will ask if you have made a full tithe or not. If you say no, he will probably say that you should because you would receive blessings for it. I've never been harassed or bothered by anyone about this when I told them no. That was the extent of it.
I know members who said yes, and were asked to show some proof to get a temple recommend. I never went to a tithing settlement (and hence, never went to the temple -- thankfully) because I did not think my income was any business of the church's lay people. I was given a statement about how much I donated. The men are not paid by the church, and some had jobs in the same field as mine. I did not trust them with my financial information. Some church members are wonder people, but others use their church postion as a way to have power over others and are happy to abuse that power.
very generous to a church to which he belongs. Did they do anything good with the cash??? dork
I want someone to show me where in the King James Bible its says that if you do not give 10%, then Jesus will disown you. I have always been taught that we are to tithe 10% to God, but nowhere does it say that it must go a Church, you can give it to anyone as long as you are sure they will be good stewarts of the money (sorry baby killers, not). Also it seems to me that Romney favors his lDS belief over the people of other faiths or even those claim no religion. I do not care for that. Now if he gave his 10% to the LDS and at least half of that to others charities that would be ok. Let me rephase that, anything over his LDS tithes given to support the widows and the orphans given from the heart would work. Jesus said that if you give with a heavy heart you might as well keep it.
I'm sorry giving money to YOUR church is not charity. If you give money to something that you gain a benefit from how is that charity? I'm an athiest myself, but come on here people has your religion made you this gullible. If you are then I'd like to declare that I'm donating money to my barber every time I get my hair cut and that should tax deductible as well.
The whole argument on why capital gains tax should be lower than standard taxes is pretty dumb as well. Does anyone here really think that the company that they work for didn't pay taxes on the money that they are using to pay you? It all goes around in a big circle. Either you can make the argument that every dollar in existence has already been taxed at some point in time and no one pays any taxes or the wealthy should pay an equal amount of their income in taxes as the middle class.
"I'm sorry giving money to YOUR church is not charity"
I donate on a regular basis to Habitat for Humanity and I get the personal satisfaction of helping build houses for people that couldn't otherwise afford it. I benefit personally by giving to this organization but based on your flawed logic this is not charity.
BTW churches do more charity work for the community than ANY other organization type, but since the members who actually do much the charity work get a benefit of getting a tax deduction for tithing that isn't good enought for you?