It's great to work hard and make money, pay your taxes and give to charity, no harm in that, but private equity firms don't seem to play fair (where Romney made most of his money). They buy companies which are valued less than their total assets with a convenient exit clause where they are the first ones to get paid if the company files for bankruptcy. They usually shut down plants/stores, lay off workers, try to show some black in the balance sheet and quickly sell for a tidy profit or just file for bankruptcy, selling off the assets and the exit clause still gives them a tidy profit as they are the first ones to get paid. Workers are typically always the ones to lose as they have no say, shareholders sold the company to save any equity (they are to blame to an extent for tolerating mismanagement), they are the ones left on unemployment with no health insurance and usually no savings in either Swiss bank accounts or the Cayman Islands. I would be interested in knowing how Romney empathizes with these workers on who's back he made his wealth.

12 years of returns, huh? We know more about Mitt and Gingrich than we do about Obama, the most secretive President in modern history.

We do know one thing, 3 out of 4 years Obama couldn't bother to turn in a budget in the time required by law, and he has run the largest deficits in human history.

Seems like that is a little more important than a candidates tax returns.

You see, we actually have two guys with executive experience, both of which are enormously more successful than the ding-dong-in-chief. That's the kind of stuff that actually matters. Proven record of success working with the opposite party, with some measurable good results.

As to making money on others backs, Nancy, Harry and Obama do that every day, running our nation into the ground while building record levels of debt - TRILLIONS. More unemployed African-American youth, more Americans than ever on food stamps, yeah, a real record of sticking it to the poor.

No, I don't want to see his tax returns Barbara. That's not the issue. Who cares about the tax returns and how much money he makes, as long as he makes it legally. I think this campaign has gotten super silly.

SuMkA,

1. The "Bush Tax Cuts", the majority of them went to the middle class or lower.

2. The Clinton "Surplus" was noting more then creative paper shuffling. If there was a surplus then why did the National Debt keep climbing.

There are 3 Stages of Income

1. You get a job and work for your money

2. You save and invest some and your money starts working for you.

3. Your money returns enough that it works instead of you.

Isn't that part of the American Dream ??? That you get to the point where you can retire and still be young enough to enjoy it ??

And enough already with the " he inherited it".....JFK was a Trust Fund Baby....He never had a job. In fact all of the Kennedy's lived quite well off the family's Billion dollar wealth. When John "3 Purple Hearts" Kerry dumped his Millionaire wife for his new Billionaire wife....not a peep. Theresa Heinz-(Kerry) inherited all her dead husbands billions. She paid virtually zero in taxes. the Majority of her income (and by marriage John Kerry's) came from Federal,City, State and Local TAX-FREE Municipal Bonds. An investment tool devised to get the wealthy to finance Public Projects. A worthy cause but none the less designed to be extremely Attractive to those with wealth.

This is the reason MILLIONS of Americans spend hundreds of millions of dollars a week on Lottery games. Hoping to hit it big on the 200 Million dollar prizes...Why ??....so they never have to work again.

Anger and Jealousy over others wealth will eat you alive...It's not yours and you can't have it.

JustaGrunt, do some gruntwork of your own, well I guess you may be amongst the 1 perncenters so I did it for you, here is a graph and as you may see from it, the national debt mostly fell during Democratic administrations, including Clinton's, the exceptions being World War 1 (Wilson era) and World War II (FDR era), Kennedy/Johnson managed it pretty well during the Vietnam War. Now if you see towards the end of Bush Jr. era, the debt skyrocketed and that trajectory including the 2 wars were handed to Obama. Contrast that with God (uhm Reagan), debt went up. Want to change some hard facts now?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/Federal_Debt_1901-2010_.jpg

Government by the people, of the people for the people?

That's a fraud only upon the stupid Americans who still cling to the nonsense taught to them since HS civic class.

How about government by the multi-millionaires, of the same, and for the same? That's why these wealthy politicians bailed out the WallSt FatCats and screwed over the working class of MainSt. Their contempt toward the working stiff class is hidden long enough just until for election day.

What I want to know is how much in food stamps did he get. Think about it people, 42.5 million and I'll bet he is not as happy as you are with your 15K per year. He's worried about the lawyers he has to pay, the accountants he has to pay, whose trying to scam him, how much blackmail and hushmoney he has to pay. Kidnappers, thieves, con men waiting to rip him off. He's got secretaries on the payroll, bodyguards for him and his family. He's suspicious of everybody, can't drive himself to the store, although he probably has five or six cars. Doesn't know what it feels like to take a grandchild to the park by himself. Hasn't seen any real money in years. He's being picked on from the right, the left and in the middle. Can't give a straight answer if you asked him what his name is. Has money he'll never get to spend. Think of all the things that you can do that Mitt Romney can't do with his 42.5 million. I wouldn't trade his life for mine for one minute. I sleep good at night, ask Mr. Romney what dreams come to him at night, he won't, can't, tell you and keep a straight face.

$42.5 Million in income, and he will only pay 14.5% taxes. And the Republicans in Congress will do anything necessary regardless of the damage to our economy and to the middle class, block every proposal to protect the super wealthy Americans like Romney to prevent THEM from having to pay one more dollar in taxes.

But they will shift all of the unpaid burden of the National Debt onto the shoulders of the disappearing middle class and the quickly growing ranks of the poor and insolvent.

And the unbelievable thing about this is that the bill-of-goods being sold to the American people by the Republican party, fueled by stoking anger and fear, will convince millions of Americans to once again vote against their own family's economic interest and against the economic wellbeing of our country.

On election day millions will support this bald-faced and cynical deception by voting Republican. It simply defies logic that any Americans, except those whom are very wealthy, continue to commit slow economic suicide and destroy their own family's chance at "the American dream."

"1. The "Bush Tax Cuts", the majority of them went to the middle class or lower.

2. The Clinton "Surplus" was noting more then creative paper shuffling. If there was a surplus then why did the National Debt keep climbing."

Hogwash to the nth degree.

I am pretty sure Romney at $6,200,000.00 has paid way more than anyone posting on newsvine! If anyone that has the nerve to criticize Romney about taxes I DARE YOU tell us how much you paid. 6.2 million usd pays a lot of welfare and foodstamps and unemployment be grateful to Mitt Romney.

@Mike,

You forgot the 4th category, you know the one that Mitt falls into: those who use other people's money to make themselves rich and pay only capital gains on investors profits

"You just perfectly described Obama's Takeover of GM and Chrysler"

One day you brainwashed individuals will take the time to read before posting. GM borrowed money from the federal government and put up collateral to assure repayment and reclaimed their status as the number 1 car maker in the world. There never was a takeover and the two cases are not even close to being what you claim

Why does this say returns? This is only one year!

Oh and the 5th category, you know the one where the big banks borrow 7.7 trillion from the fed at %.001 and lend it at 3-4%, yep that's Capitalism right?

Mark-3147899

"Oh and the 5th category, you know the one where the big banks borrow 7.7 trillion from the fed at %.001 and lend it at 3-4%, yep that's Capitalism right?"

Former head of the New York Federal Reserve Bank Timmy-Turbo-Tax-Geithner and Federal Reserve Bank Chief Ben Bernanke are completely in charge of all of that....When is the last time Obama railed about the Fed Policies ???

" those who use other people's money to make themselves rich and pay only capital gains on investors profits"....Those "other people" volunteer their money to pool together.....and Capital Gains is not an evil scheme....Just ask Warren Buffett......earned him Billions.

Oh, those $$ parked off shore were/are not in tax shelters - they are just enjoying an extended vacation.

I especially enjoy that, under Gingrich's tax plan, Romney will pay $zero.

are 3 Stages of Income

1. You get a job and work for your money

2. You save and invest some and your money starts working for you.

3. Your money returns enough that it works instead of you.

OK you have it have it backwards pal. The only "job"that Mitt Romney had at Bain Capital was to get rid of companies, to maximize the profits. He "invested"his earning is foreign accounts to evade taxes. And yes! you are correct! all the money that he has is making him millions and millions of dollars just in "interst"

What "product"did he produce to make all those millions? Unlike other millionaires like Bill Gates. Bill Gates had a PRODUCT to sell. He did not STEAL the companies and bankrupted to sell them for a profit. Last famous words of Mitt Romney: "I like to fire people" "I will work the healthcare as a business, not like the post-office"

Unless you are part of his group of millionaires -which I doubt- I do not see why you keep defending these people with such aggressiveness. It is obvious that you need to do some homework.

sumka, go look at that chart again and remember Congress, not the President, holds the purse strings. There is plenty of culpability to go around for both parties.

Not only that but go all the way back to the front of the chart to that wonderful president who is traditionally ranked in the top ten as a president, the wonderful progressive Woodrow Wilson. Notice that sudden spike in debt? That coincides with formation of the Federal Reserve and our fiat money system.

Paul is a nut job when it comes to foreign policy and domestic issues but he is dead on about the Fed. I'd like to see him as Treasury Secretary if the bankers wouldn't have him shot with a month.

Mike in Delray (unique name since your views are the in the minority in Delray - and the country) - this isn't about Democrats vs Republicans or conservatives vs liberals - this is about right and wrong. Values, principles, doing the honorable. Mitt Romney has made his millions in Private Equity using other peoples money - not his own. Essentially he's like a pimp or a parasite - both are probably legal by the way (you know what I infer). He's not a an innovator like Jobs, Woz, or Gates - has has never created anything. Like a cocaine dealer, he takes a product, dilutes it, and dimes it out for profit. Nothing wrong with that Mike. Only he espouses massive cuts to social security and medicare so he can personally have more. We're not talking about welfare recipients, we're speaking of hard working patriotic Americans - many who have fought for this country and many who have had their head of household die for this country--- he wants to cut these programs so he can have more.

Most of us (politics agnostic) wouldn't want to be in the same room with an greedy animal like this.

Good luck with this in the fall because your side needs more than angry, miserable Republicans to win a general election given the electorate by party registration. The GOP is A MINORITY PARTY, Mike. There are many more Democrats and moderate leaning Independents than pissed-off, malcontent Republicans Mike.

I've got a feeling you'd better stock up on Maalox for another 4 more years.

sumka,

You are completely right. I am a proud member of the 1% club. Actually it is the <1% club. Unless you mean pay wise, then you can look up how much I make, its on Google. Look up E6 with 12.

IRESPOND-2315268...(#1.24)..."OK you have it have it backwards pal."

First of all, you're not my pal...

" The only "job"that Mitt Romney had at Bain Capital was to get rid of companies, to maximize the profits."

That is your interpretation...A 70% success rate while at Bain ain't bad....some companies didn't make it despite the infusion of private capital.

"He "invested"his earning is foreign accounts to evade taxes"

He's been running for President for 4 years now.....Don't you think that if your statement was even remotely true....That Barry would have sicked Eric on that case the day he became Attorney General ???

"Unless you are part of his group of millionaires -which I doubt-"

Not quite, but I did follow the 3 Stages....From a laborer to a bricklayer, to Construction Management, saving and investing all the way...and I'll turn 56 in May and I'm retired.

Stop being so negative....

I don't take issue with the amount he made or even how much he paid in taxes. However saying multiple accounts in the Caimans isn't about tax evasion makes me question what is their purpose?

Although I would still take him over Gingrich. Irespond, he took over failing businesses and twenty two percent failed. This is hardly a new way of doing business, the question lies in how much money he took from the failing businesses before closing them and whether that money could have saved the business and jobs. Romney continuously fails to explain the concerns and its costing him but if no one gets enough delegates for the win it gets decided at the convention by the establishment who have votes and Romney will win.

JonSmith7383729...(#1.27)..."And Mike in Delray, go check your facts, Monkey-boy-Bush signed the auto industry bailout 2 weeks before he left office, yet again, the useless right trying to blame Obama."

And if you don't think I had blood squirting out of my eyes by the time Bush uttered " We have to abandon free market principles to save the free market", you're sadly mistaken.

Obama picked up the ball and his administration crafted the bankruptcy....Plenty of blame to go around....Bush was not a Conservative....just more conservative than AlGore and Kerry....

No one cared how JFK made his money and he wasn't disconnected with the people of his time. Just a thought, considering they were the most reclusive family ever. And not sure why Obama was brought up since this is about Romney, let's stick to the subject.

Barbara, I guess you know what it must be like to pay 6.2 Million in taxes, or give 7 million in charity? Why don't you see if you can get any tax returns from the Democrats you support to see what they are hiding, or how generous any of them are? Oh and drop the BOY name calling, don't think it's appropriate to be calling your next president BOY!

We keep electing the very Politicians who keep the rules in the favor of themselves and their rich cronies. Until we DEMAND a change of Campaign Finance rules we will keep getting screwed and they will keep getting richer.

There was a time when our leadership lead by example. They actually strove for excellence. Now our leader@!$%# strives to meet the minimum standard looking for every loophole and striving to let the next guy pay. While Romney pays more than most he receives way more than most as a result of not his work but the work of many others. He is not a leader I could follow. With all Newt's faults, he is a far better candidate. Down with Romney and all the rich greedy bastards who want to use public office for personal gain!

I usually only hear rumors about paid trolls...

BUT Mike in Delray is sure out today with his talking points and spin.

The rich should be paying the highest rate on everything they make, PERIOD. Call it the cost of opportunity.

When this country was great (according to repubs sometime before that mysterious Bush guy who no one voted for) rates for the rich topped 50%, GOOD anything less is brainwashing by the rich to get the poor to build them roads.

Jon seriously, Mormon @!$%#! Wow he paid 15% on investments, not income, Buffett and anyone else with that kind of money does exactly the same it is legal to do so, in fact if you didn't do it you would be the biggest dumb ass of the century, well that is why your not rich, I suggest you go back to your tent on wall street and join your occupy buddies

Does the fact that the investment income he has paid 15% on was already taxed once when the money was earned? It may have been his father that paid those taxes, but it doesnt lessen the taxes paid on that money.

@JonSmith7383729,

Wow, resorting to name calling. So can you show that the "Bush" tax cuts did nothing to help the middle class? The fact that you choose to ignore that shows that you too are far to clueless to vote on anything.

Does the fact that the investment income he has paid 15% on was already taxed once when the money was earned?

Thats a total myth rich people tell you so you agree that you should pay for a bridge not them.

If he invest $1 million after income taxes then $45 million has NOT been taxed...come on man.

Technically ALL money everyone has has been taxed at some point hundreds of times.

Please Bigfinn....... spare us your holier than thou nonsense. You don't like Romney, you don't like bankers, you don't like hedge fund managers because you don't understand what they do. So you automatically believe they must be doing something crooked. You like Jobs, Woz, and Gates because you use their products and think they are cool. Jobs may be the Thomas Edison of our lifetime but he was basically a tool. He treated people like crap, refused to follow basic rules (like NOT parking in handicap spaces), gave practically nothing to charity, and made billions off of the capital gains you supposedly hate. Your hypocrisy is stunning.

Woz was an innovator and basically a good guy. He'd probably be broke if not for Jobs's cutthroat business acumen. Gates is another guy who put profits ahead of innovation on a regular basis. Sure, he's a philanthropist now and that's admirable. However, I wouldn't call him a great innovator. He just had a damn good business plan to corner the market, license everything, and make his product critical to 90% of people....... though it wasn't necessarily the best product. If Gates was in the oil business, you'd be calling him Satan.

SuMkA-1360775

Debt "mostly" fell under Democratic President? Gee is like that being a little bit pregnant because you obviously did not include Obama. Why was AIG saved and Not Lehman Brothers? AIG insures millions of people a lot of whom are every day working stiffs. Lehman an investment house. Most of Obama's supporters are always whining about taxing the rich. Well saving Lehman and letting AIG go would have been favoring the richer population. Something Obama would have done though, had he the chance and he did vote for the tarp when Bush was president.

GM success, no such animal. The unions own a good share of it thanks to a gift by Obama. Solyndra went broke just after getting a few biliion of our dollars and check out Obama's other "green" investments.

Now to the topic of the article. It is all pure biased Medica and Democrat BULL CRAP. The tax code as written and amended a trillion times by politicians gives these deductions and tax shelters to richer people, including the politicians and thier cronies. So anyone making a lot of money is going to use them. The percentage of tax in thier bracket does not mean anything. Its the write offs that count, if everyone yelling about how much tax Romney or anyone else pays had a brain they would know that. Raise the tax rate for the rich. Just what do you think that would accomplish? Or does the BS king have you fooled too? If I'm rich, go ahead and raise my rate to 90% and leave me the same tax code and I'll use it so I still pay 15% or as little as possible. This is the smoke and mirrors the Dems fool stupid people with. You have to have money to take advantage of our current tax code or be one of the purchased voters who gets a refund without paying a dime of tax in the first place. Of course none of the Democrat supporters are going to mention a flat tax because they are the ones that have mostly a two tier base. The rich liberals and the purchased voters.

Nothing will change until that chanages. Obama just "postponed" the deportation of a couple of hundred thousand illegals hoping he will get elected again so he can find a way (executive order not doubt) to turn them into citizens and therefore more purchased voters. When you give a man something for his vote, you destroy a democracy, said Thomas Jefferson.

PS Where are Obama and Michelle's tax returns for the last 10 years and where are the numbers for where his money came from in the last election that the justice department seems mighty slow in finding out. DUH

We the corporations

Romney's tax returns are perfectly legal according to our tax code courtesy of the politicians hiding gimmies to rich and poor so why bitch at him? You are the ones that won't stand up for a flat tax, the only true fair kind because some of the supporters of Obama would end up finally paying some tax and OHHHH we can't have that, we'll just expect rich people to volunteer to give more money so we can have more gimmies.

At least he paid his taxes which is more than you can say for Geithner and a lot of other Obama cronies. Paying your taxes with all the legal deductions is what we all do. If its fair for us, its fair for Romney or any other citizen no matter how much money they make or how they invest to protect thier money. If you want to get more from the rich, throw out the tax code and go to a flat tax. Can't have it both way folks.

on the Bush's tax cuts for the rich what part of this statement don't you understand?

Extending the 2001/2003 income tax rates for two years. Also, reforming the AMT to ensure an additional 21 million households will not face a tax increase. These measures are intended to provide relief to more than 100 million middle-class families and prevent an annual tax increase of over $2,000 for the typical family

I can't believe how much envy for your neighbors money makes people so blind to the truth.

Its horrible that Mitt invested in companies that hired and paid people wages that allows them to live and grow and God forbid he makes interest off that money to feed his family.

The "99%ers" should worry about thier own affairs and how to get ahead instead of trying to screw successfull people our of thier money. This class warfare is nothing but envy. sad but true.

------------------------------------------------------

Some food for thought Liberals

Envy (also called invidiousness) is best defined as a resentful emotion that "occurs when a person lacks another's (perceived) superior quality, achievement, or possession and either desires it or wishes that the other lacked it.

Envy can also derive from a sense of low self-esteem that results from an upward social comparison threatening a person's self image: another person has something that the envier considers to be important to have. If the other person is perceived to be similar to the envier, the aroused envy will be particularly intense, because it signals to the envier that it just as well could have been he or she who had the desired object.

Individuals with narcissistic personality disorder are often envious of others or believe others are envious of him or her. A narcissist may secure a sense of superiority in the face of another person's ability by using contempt to minimize the other person.

You are the ones that won't stand up for a flat tax,

Flat taxes are the MOST UNFAIR tax system ever!

To even pretend they are not s class warfare at it pinnacle!

Do poor people use the interstate highway system to make a profit? NO, but Bain Capital did. Why should they pay the same?

So, The GOP's most electable candidate is a 1%er that pays less than 14% tax on his income. No wonder you guys are getting defensive.

Hey Barbara,

When Rangel and Gietner show that they didn't forget to pay taxes this year, and Pelosi along with Kerry open their returns, then perhaps you can ask all to release years and years and years of taxes. Otherwise, don't post like a fool!!

Does it actually matter? THIS ISN'T RATED AS INCOME, it's investment money. Cnn and msnbc put slanted headlines up to shift the focus. Honest to God! He made his money legally, it was mostly capital gains which is taxed at 14% not regular income tax rates. He donated over 3 million to charity last year (That's 14% of last years"income") which proportionately is probably way more than any of you have, and it's proportionately WAY more than barack has, or ever has for that matter. Cayman Islands?? Who cares? I don't blame the guy...people do it because it's able to be done. He makes a lot of money. In baracks eyes the only ones allowed to make money are the political elite like him, kennedy, dodd, reid and pelosi. Mitt makes a lot of money in a country where you're allowed to, why is that wrong?

I'd much rather have someone running this country who knows how to make money than someone who only knows how to stir up crap, drive a wedge between us, and doesn't know how to do anything except spin. Why don't any of you crybabies and wealth haters get your panties in a bunch over barack and his billion dollar campaign. ONE BILLION DOLLARS will be spent to attempt to get your "common man" leader re-elected when he has done nothing to deserve it. Come on...focus on reality and what actually matters you boneheads

@ Barbara

Release your charitable donations for the past 12 years.

I have decided to NOT vote for anyone that spends all their time bashing everybody else. I want to hear what someone can do, not what everybody else can't do.

Let me start my post by saying I am NOT a Mitt Romney fan. With that said, most people don't seem to grasp the huge difference between investment income and "regular" income (and why investment income is taxed at a lower rate).

Regular income is income you earn from wages, salaries, tips, rent, etc. The key thing about it is that there is essentially no risk. You work and you get a paycheck. And your paycheck is taxed at "normal" rates.

Investment income is different because you invest money (placing it at risk) in order to make money on it. With the volatility in today's markets, there is a very real possibility that you can lose your money instead of make it. And if you lose money, you can only write off a limited amount of your losses. The tax benefits of investing are one of the reasons that people with money invest it, and we need their investments to fuel economic growth (this is the money that companies use to expand, build buildings and plants, etc.)

So any time you invest, you are placing money at risk with the hope of making money... Without the tax incentive fewer people would invest and the economy would be hurt. Mitt Romney's normal income (speaking fees, etc) would be taxed at the higher rates, but since he has far more investment income than anything else, the bulk of his income is taxed at the lower rates. Also keep in mind the money he is investing has already been taxed.

Again, I am not a huge fan of his, but it's so easy to grab onto sound bites ("He paid less taxes than I did") without really understanding why. The bottom line is, he paid millions of dollars in taxes and made his money by putting millions more at risk. Most of us take a paycheck and assume no risk of losing it.

When are we going to see baracks college transcripts? If you ask me those are more important than tax returns. We don't even know if the guy has a college degree let alone if he got over a 2.4 avg. We don't know anything about the guy. But you guys just keep on crying about rich people being rich. Believe me, if the rich are no longer rich it's not going to help any of you at all.

I do know that barack admittedly did a ton of blow during his "college" years. Nobody seems mind that though. But oh my, it's the end of the world if Newt did something that probably 1/2 of you or more have done in your relationships. Such double standards from the left.

He definitely is not 99%. So what?

Time to grow up, kids. Please understand, we are electing the President to be an efficient manager, not to be "one of [social, racial, religious, whatnot group]". If under his management my income (and maybe, more importantly, the feeling it is stable) goes up, and gas price goes down, I wouldn't care if his income is ten times what it's now, and his effective tax rate is half what it is now (hint: if you invest in muni bonds, your tax rate on that income will be zero, zilch, zip, 0%). I wouln't even care if all his interns wear blue dresses and have great oral skills, and even that some of them are male.

Having said that, Romney still has a lot to do to persuade me that he IS an efficient manager (or, to be more precise, that he WILL BE efficient in the position he's applying for). However Obama has to do even more - nothing short of miracle - to persuade America that he's not the least efficient person that ever held the position. For now, Obama is poised to take over the title of the Worst President Ever from Jimmy Carter. The only thing that can stop him from that is his proven inability to get anything done.

I don't care how he makes his money as long as it's not presently illegal.

I do care that I paid a higher tax rate than he did.

I am the disappearing middle class. No raise or bonus for the past 3 years. Can't properly fund what is left of my retirement plan since costs have escalated over the past few years in spite of no increase in my revenue.

A very, very sad state of affairs. I am not happy with anyone who is currently running for Pres. I have not heard from either side any viable solution to what is wrong with my life.

Wow.

Counting federal income tax, Social Security, and Medicare, and including employee-specific employer contributions, Mitt Romeny pays only 14.6% f his income in taxes.

The working poor pay 15.6% in Social Security and Medicare, even if they pay no federal income tax at all.

The middle class pay anywhere from 25 to 35%.

No WONDER Mitt wants to steal the Social Security retirement money I've paid into all my life so he can give the funds to his rich pals in the guise of so-called "tax cuts". He needs consolation for the fact that he has no sense of civic duty beyond amassing personal power so he can steal from the poor and give to the rich.

Mitt Romney: Like Robin Hood, only in reverse.

He robs from the rich and middle class in order to give to the rich.

So now the only Multi-millionares left in the race,who are getting MILLIONS of dollars from big corperations for thier campaign are;...Romney,...Gingrich,....and ....of course....Obama..(.with the BILLION dollar campaign fund..)...........yeah,they can ALL identify with us.......looks like this election goes to the highest bidder too............Hope for change I guess,....(but I won't expect it).............U.S.Army Disabled Veteran

Sumka-

JustaGrunt, do some gruntwork of your own, well I guess you may be amongst the 1 perncenters so I did it for you, here is a graph and as you may see from it, the national debt mostly fell during Democratic administrations, including Clinton's, the exceptions being World War 1 (Wilson era) and World War II (FDR era), Kennedy/Johnson managed it pretty well during the Vietnam War...Want to change some hard facts now?

Your chart shows national debt as a percentage of GDP, yet you imply that your chart is demonstrating real dollars. It's not.

Go here:

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt.htm

You will see (in real dollars) that the gross national debt has increased every year since 1950, with the exception of 1957. The fact that this proves is that creating a few annual budget surpluses (MOSTLY through accounting tricks) does not necessarily decrease the outstanding debt owed.

Hey liberty and freedom , did you seriously just say leave Romney alone, and we should be thanking him because is six million dollars helps alot of people?

It's like the republican party tells it's idiot drones, not the rich ones though, they actually have a reason to be in the republican party that's only looking out for their interest, but they tell them you know what the fifteen percent or so we are paying is just to darn much. We have to lower the taxes on us to almost nonexisting, while you continue to pay your 30 percent. Matter of fact, we should tell those poor people they need to get up and give the government half of their meager incomes. And while we are at it we will cut the benefits they rely on. This is the right thing to do spur the economy, all the money has to be in concentrated oligarchy.

Why would you possibly be following this garbage, you people truly are retarded.

1. You get a job and work for your money

2. You save and invest some and your money starts working for you.

3. Your money returns enough that it works instead of you.

Nothing wrong with that. Just PAY TAXES!

Those who BENEFIT the most from our capitalist society ought to CONTRIBUTE proportionately more to maintain that system.

That is not just our Judeo-Christian culture, it is in the oldest tradition of capitalism, and was a cause vigorously promoted by no lesser champion of free market enterprise than Adam Smith himself.

Kiting on taxes isn't capitalism. Shirking one's civic duty isn't capitalism. And a regressive tax structure that dictates and perpetuates an uneven playing field across generations is anathema to free market capitalism.

Don't confuse capitalism with GREED. Capitalism is good. Unbridled and irresponsible greed is bad. Bad for the country.

Actually, Worst President ever was Taft, a GOP'er like no other. And what does he have in common with today's Presidents? I'll let you decide that for yourself, wouldn't want to make all the work easy for you. Also, Harding deserves a good mention. Notice ALL are Republicans? I wonder why they love screwing everyone over so much? Could it be those Christian morals they so claim to follow and practice.

You guys are making it horrible for us Independents, I got Obama on the left, who looks like 4 more years of Bush, then I got Jokers to the right, who think that Corporations are people and healthcare isn't for everyone, us poor just need to fall over and die after we build your crap for dirt cheap labor costs, so you can pocket the profit.

His college transcripts...are you f'ing kidding me? The man was elected by his peers (with the help of conservatives) to be the president of the Harvard Law Review. Are you telling me that a bunch of the nation's top lawyer prospects voted Barack Obama to be their president when he wasn't academically qualified.

BTW, no one was concerned that W. did blow so find something else to worry about. Put on your tin foil hat and see if Glen Beck channels something to you.

@commonsense.

Looks like you need to get with an accountant and learn a couple of things. It isn't income, it's capital gains and if you say there's no difference, according to the IRS there is a huge difference so take it up with them. Also, anyone in the middle class paying those percentages need to fire their CPA because there are too many LEGAL ways to not pay that tax and most middle class and especially lower income do not. If you honestly believe that someone making 18k per year pays fed income tax at your stated rates you are truly living in a fantasy world.

Don't just look up tax rates on the web and recite them like their consistent with what people really pay. What percentage of your "income" did you donate to charity last year. Mitt donated 14% or more than 3 million dollars. Good thing for the rich or the recipients of that money would have to rely on people like you for their charity. In other words they'd probably be screwed.

So who would best fit a Romney ticket for VP?

Romney / Madoff 2012

Because two elitist scumbags are better than one!

he paid 15% on investments, not income

First of all, he did NOT pay 15%.

The average for the two years is less than 14.6%, and he paid LESS than that in 2010.

Secondly, he did not pay taxes on investments, he paid taxes on INCOME.

The source of his income is profits on investment, not labor. Not only does he pay a lower rate than people who pay taxes on their labor, he gets to deduct all of his COSTS before the tax is applied.

If I got to deduct my COSTS before I paid income on my labor, I would only pay taxes on a few thousand a year (what I 'profit' after deducting the costs of 'investing' in myself as a worker. I need to pay for food, clothing, housing, transportation, and so on in order to be able to work. Those are my "costs", just like Romney gets to deduct the price of the stock he buys, and the costs for his office, his staff, his business luncheons, business travel, and so on).

So much hatred..............so little time!

The problem in defending Filpomney is: There is no way in hell he made his money by himself as all of you claim. Let's go thru the steps, He invested some of his fathers money and friends of his fathers money into Bain. Bain looked for companies that made things from the ground up, and in some cases from $100 to a multi million or billion dollar company. Once they identified this companies they went in for the kill.

Their main goal was to make a profit for their company and shareholders.

It was Americas that made those companies, it was working class people who worked in those companies, it was the American consumer buying those products.

So there can be no doubt that Bain, Romney or any other corporation in American made money on there own. You would have to wonder it they were supermen who built a company all by themselves. For anyone to sit here and say they made all that money by themselves is telling a lie.

I would like to see you make something in America and sell it all by your self. You still would need American consumers to purchase the product or service. That's not doing it all by yourself.

No tax code or civilization can survive if the more money someone make the less they have to pay in taxes.

It's like you want kings to collect all the money and give the people cake. So you repuks you have two choices.

Progressive tax and everyone pays a fair share

or

The rich pays no taxes and keep what they collect.

You would have to ask yourself were do you fit in? If you are on this site and protecting the rich you are not the 1%. So in effect you are lying to yourself about what you want for this country.

commonsense said:

First of all, he did NOT pay 15%.

The average for the two years is less than 14.6%, and he paid LESS than that in 2010.

Seriously? He's NOT paying over 15% for 2011 because he only paid 13% in 2010? I think in real dollars, he'll pay over 15% for 2011. Your "averages" are useless.

Investment income is different because you invest money (placing it at risk) in order to make money on it. With the volatility in today's markets, there is a very real possibility that you can lose your money instead of make it. And if you lose money, you can only write off a limited amount of your losses. The tax benefits of investing are one of the reasons that people with money invest it, and we need their investments to fuel economic growth (this is the money that companies use to expand, build buildings and plants, etc.)

If that's so true then why when we "normal" people invest for our retirement, we pay ordinary income tax on the gains when we pull it out? Why shouldn't we be taxed at 15%? We invested our hard-earned money the same way Romney does.

We also have some moroons on here stating that the money Romney invested ends up being taxed twice. Wrong. If I make $1,000 after tax, and I invest that $1,000 in stock, and I sell the stock the next year for $2,500, I'll pay capital gains tax on the GAIN only. I'll pay the tax on ($2,500 - $1,000--my cost) =$1,500. I will NOT pay any more tax on the original $1,000 investment.

It is exactly right that Republican drones will go along and vote against their own self-interest (and all those others they drag down with them), just to show devotion to a Party that couldn't care less about them. They would literally follow their leader and jump off a cliff for someone who would stick a knife in their back if it meant becoming President.

commonsense also said:

Secondly, he did not pay taxes on investments, he paid taxes on INCOME

Most of his "INCOME" is from investments. He pays taxes on "INCOME" from investments. Hence, the lower capital gains rates apply to most of his "INCOME."

piegan:

LOL - Mittens didn't work "hard" for his money ... he was already way ahead of the game by virtue of the silver spoon he was born with in his mouth.

Sure he has a good education ... the best his daddy's money bought him.

LOL - Ah, yes ... the new talking points 'jealous', 'wealth envy', 'envious'. I love when the teabagging Greedy Old Party vomits these words. I never aspired to be rich; I always aspired to work in a career I love, having the ability to wake up every morning and not gripe about going to work, to have a roof over my head, clothes on my back, food on my table, and the ability to go out every once in a while. Sorry, but if being rich means being a heartless, shallow and empty douche bag, have at it - I want no part of it.

Yes, DAMN President Obama for propping up the auto industry! Damn him for saving millions of jobs not only in the manufacturing, but those services directly related to the auto industry! Numbnuts ... the manufacturers - not President Obama - had no choice BUT to close failing dealerships. And here I thought you teabagging Repukelicans were all about not throwing good money after bad ...

Thanks, but I won't forget that if President Obama hadn't done what he did, between being instrumental in saving the auto industry and putting forth a stimulus package that saved jobs, this country would be further down the sh*tter. And, if the teabagging Greedy Old Party gets its way, this country will look like Haiti in no time ...

Obama/Biden 2012!

Elithian 1701225 Down with Romney and all the rich greedy bastards who want to use public office for personal gain!

Well what do you want Elithian? Romney made his money in the private sector fully using the legal tax system, however broken it may be, and Gingrich has used the public office to make his money. But you want to skewer Romney and reward Gingrich....you had better wake up before you get what you are asking for, if you know what you are asking for. Total confusion is what I see.

I'll just betcha all of the libs slinging their usual mean s**t at Romney here go to H&R Block and tell the tax preparer, "now, don't take any of those deductions and credits for me, for I am a noble progressive and want to do my part by paying all the tax I can, even the amounts I don't legally have to"........right???

This entire argument against Mitt-whom I don't support-is just a Red Herring. Here's why.

"Romney's tax rate is below that of most wage-earning Americans..." PATENTLY FALSE!!!

Aside from the fact that this is income on invested earnings from other income which has already been taxed, Romney is paying the Lawful Cap Gains rate of 15%.

It is a well known fact that 47% of tax filers pay ZERO Federal Income Tax. There is simply no way on God's Green Earth, that of those remaining there are not at least another 3% who pay an effective rate lower then 15%.

Let alone the whole Class Warfare BS thing. Anybody with a Second Grade Education can follow this simple math.

The facts are that we are ALL overtaxed. The Federal Government is off the Constitutional Rails and needs to be cut in half for the survival of our Republic.

Cudos to Tim Thomas for speaking the truth.

Larry-314720 Larry-314720
He may not have released 12 years but he did do this without hesitation or needing to be asked.

President Obama posted 6 years of tax returns (2000-2006) while running for the presidency. He has posted every year since becoming president.

His tax return shows that he paid a 26% rate for 2010.

It's easy to find.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/18/president-obama-and-vice-president-biden-s-tax-returns-and-tax-receipts

That is roughly 14%, so Buffet was right.

The fact people aren't happy because a private citizen lawfully paid his taxes at the amount given shows how stupid this country has become. He unlike many of Obama's people (Rangel, Daschel, Timmy) paid his taxes. You hate him because he didn't send in a larger check then he needed to. If you think the government is so great why don't you all just send in all your money to the government and let them decide who needs it. This country used to cheer for people to be successful, now you want people who succeed to be punished and have their money taken from them so it can be wasted in Government bureaucracy, fraud, and waste. Congratulations we fought to be free of Europe control only to copy everything they do, even though they are complete failures. What a joke we have become.

The class envy on here is unbelievable. There was a time when America was great and presidents tried to inspire every citizen to seize the opportunities this country affords every citizen to better themselves. Now we are sadly a country where our president chides those who have little to pull the achievers off their pedestals and take what they have for themselves. The rhetoric I hear now is the same rhetoric that preceded the takeover of most totalitarian regimes....

Worthless tax returns. Romney does nothing that isn't pre-calculated. I guess you could say that is either smart... or not very transparent. He even admitted that these new returns were AFTER they had made adjustments to overseas accounts so as to not be too politically embarrassing.

So, yes he makes a lot of money. And, no, he's not going to be the least bit responsive or transparent. And, yes, we need to adjust the tax code so investments are more inline with earned income... and don't give us that lame double taxation BS. Even so, however, the tax code isn't Romney's fault.

But given that these years represent tax returns created AFTER he knew he was running, we need not even look at them... there will be no smoking gun.

I keep reading posts about how Romney is "taking advantage" of the tax system or "being legal". Does no one on this board understand the tax system?

Nothing Romney is doing is based on his own decision making. Just as any other person declaring "investment income", he is REQUIRED to pay only the 15% capital gains tax. If he were to send a payment in for more than this amount, the IRS / Treasury Department would be required to send the payment back as an over payment.

He gave charitable donations to his church. Whether you agree with his religious followings or not, they are still a legally declared non-profit charitable organization (Christian church). These donations will lower his AGI (Adjusted Gross Income) leaving a lower taxable income; hence the lower tax rate.

Before I get a bunch of "nasty" responses from the people labeled as the left please note, I AM PROBABLY ONE OF THE MORE LIBERAL PEOPLE COMMENTING.

Focus on the problem people. The tax code is broken. Mitt Romney was not part of the Washington establishment that created it. That was done by decades of both Republicans and Democrats who served in the US Congress. Two of whom are Barack Obama and Newt Gingrich.

I still think Obama is better than what the Rebublicans are putting out as opposition though.

Todd, I absolutely agree. I'm considered pretty progressive or liberal or left or whatever, but to avoid hypocrisy here, we've got to give Romney and anyone else that has files a legal tax return a huge pass. They and we follow the law as required. The tax rates need adjusting but to blame Romney is unfair.

@Todd: Good points, and I agree, Romney was never in Congress and therefore has little to do with the tax code...as far as his $42 million in income over two years the CEO of Disney, Bob Iger, nearly got that much in ONE year!

No one can argue that Steve jobs created tens of thousands of jobs (no pun intended) when he crated Apple and then the iPhone, iPad, etc. I agree with the premise that the private sector creates the kinds of jobs we need...not government. Most of the government jobs created are paid for by our taxes. What this country needs now is more private sector job creation...and it's not happening fast enough now. If the tax code is the problem, we need to change the tax code!

Charity to the Mormon Church is NOT CHARITY. I LIVE IN SALT LAKE AND AM SURROUNDED BY MORMONS. 10% OF THEIR ANNUAL INCOME IN A REQUIREMENT FOR A TEMPLE RECOMMEND. IF YOU DON'T HAVE A TEMPLE RECOMMEND YOU CAN'T GET INTO THE TEMPLE AND IF YOU CAN'T GET INTO THE TEMPLE YOU CAN'T GET INTO HIGHEST LEVEL OF HEAVEN. THIS IS ACTUALLY A MEMBERSHIP FEE, COMES WITH A CARD AND ALL. All Mormons pay 10% of their GROSS to have this. This is part of their doctrine and is actually in the BIBLE. No paying, No temple. Period. So His $7 million in charitable contributions, was actually TITHING because it says it was over two years. BE HONEST MITT. I had said previously that If not Obama, please Mitt, but Mitt, you just lost my respect altogether.

It would be nice to see Obama's last 12 years of taxes. Hey Libs do remember challenge for everyone to go back to school for 1 more year of higher education? How many of you did that(and if your under 24 no need to reply you should of still had alot of learning to do)? Maybe Obama should take his own advice and go back for an economics class. One year he would learn more than what he knows now.

The amount of money Mitt Romney possesses is not that important. Mitt Romney has a lot of money - good for him.

The question is how he acquired the money. Private equity - venture capital - redistributes wealth created in the economy. Did Mitt Romney add anything new to the economy? Did Mitt Romney use his money to build something that created and distributed wealth in the economy? Restructuring companies and downsizing the workforce - in order to increase profits - simply means that the wealth being created by the companies was redistributed to Mitt Romney instead of to the workers that actually contributed to creating wealth.

A company that pays 1000 workers a living wage but generates zero profits - is more successful - than a company that pays 500 workers and makes 50% profits. A successful company (under capitalism) creates wealth and distributes that wealth among those that contribute to creating the wealth.

Mitt Romney's 'free enterprise' economics is about turning a success into a failure. Typical Republican rhetoric - bad is good - failure is success - those that downsize a workforce and redistribute the wealth are 'job creators'. If a Republican tells you to turn right - you better look to your left - because Republicans always say the opposite of what they mean ...

@ Rightwingwac #1.67

I could not have said it better myself. If Romney's effective tax rate is about 15%, i believe that does not include what he paid into SS and medicare. I know when my effective tax rate is figured, it is only the amount of taxes I paid against my AGI.

The Repulican candidates should have told the media that they will produce their tax returns as soon as Obama produces his college transcripts.

As I understand it, the IRS is a not a government agency, but, like the Fed, is a private agency that works under a charter from Congress. They get a percentage of the money that is collected in taxes as their fee. They are consulted as to the tax code, in fact they write it, at the behest of congress. There is no outside agency, and certainly not Congress, who reviews the code to see if it is doing what Congress intends, and as we can see, there are many un-intended consequences to the code as written. Also, it may be that the code is intentionally convoluted and obscure to keep lay persons from understanding it, kind of like the "derivatives" market. To my mind, this is the wolf guarding the lambs. In the days of the internet, there should be a "daylight" process of re-writing the code that everyone can participate in, since we no longer trust Congress to do anything but protect their entitled status at the expense of the polity.

Is it class warfare when Republicans base their whole argument on high taxes? Then pay far less then they claim. Good for anybody who can pay low taxes and I wish we had very low taxes but don't lecture me and claim class warfare or envy because I ask questions.

Ha,ha,ha,ha, gwad! Presenting a pair of authentic American Charlantans, running for President yet! Neither of these men could ever conceptually grasp the state of condition of ordinary working, wage earning Americans. Both may be highly intelligent, but neither could ever understand or recognize a fair and workable egalitarian system of employment and taxes for all the people, relative to the spirit of our constitution, even if they both were squeaky clean in all other areas. Now, manipulation and exploitation of the weaker? They probably could vie for champs in their respective fields of proven accomplishments in those past endeavors.

I'm waiting for a President that isn't loaded..

Better yet a Politician.

Warning:

Whenever a republican or libertarian or conservative in general makes a statement about social injustice (class envy, racism, class warfare) check the calender to see if it is Opposite Day.

It probably is.

If a poor, hard-working janitor (aka, junior highschool kid under Gingrich's watch) took some of that hard-earned money and bought a lottery ticket that won him 42 million..

He'd have to fork over more than 50% in taxes. He worked hard to buy that ticket and didn't fire anyone or close factories to do it.

Let the brain flatulence from the right begin...

Have a nice day :)

It's kind of sad reading so many posts that make it clear liberals have no understanding of our tax system whatsoever.

I am glad to see that Mitt has a strong track record of success. Seems that makes a good leader.

As for his effective tax rate, I guess you all missed the $7 million he gave to charity? I much prefer citizens choose what charities they give to rather than being forced to pay more taxes and have the government decide to choose what charity is "approved".

There are fundamental differences as to how conservatives look at income and charity, but the bottom line is, Republicans earn slightly less than Democrats, and give nearly 25% more to charity. Look it up.

So while you liberals love to scream and yell about hating the poor, you actually do, whereas we actually care, and show it with our time volunteering and our money.

Mac Forrester,

Unfortunately, your gripes with the current crop of GOP hopefuls could easily be applied to every Presidential hopeful for the last 20 years. And, you could apply those criticisms to 80% of congress.

@Mr Amazing -- Do you believe China selling knockoffs is wrong? Do you believe software piracy is wrong? Why are these activities wrong? People are making a product and selling it, after all. Isn't that what 'free enterprise' is about?

Knockoffs and piracy is wrong because pirates profit from the WORK of others. Someone invested their time, their labor, their intelligence to create a product. The pirate has only invested enough capital to reproduce someone else's creation.

What does private equity create? How does venture capital create something by restructuring, downsizing, liquidating a company to increase profits? Are venture capitalists simply investing enough capital to profit from the WORK of others? Isn't that what pirates do?

@Mr. Amazing

Don't be sad or surprised. These are many of the same people that blindly follow the man and will follow the man through the gates of hell. It's not a shocker but what will be a shocker is if he gets voted in again. Many people bought into his BS the first time around but he proved from day one that he was completely full of crap and just kept the perpetual lies flowing. Some of us actually studied up on the man (child) and realized that he was seriously wanting to change the country and not for the better.

He said in plain English what he wanted to do. He said he was going to fundamentally change this country. Well guess what? The fundamentals of this country are what make it great, the fundamentals don't need changing. But everyone that heard it said "ohh, that sounds eloquent, we need some of that", without ever considering the consequences of their foolish and very uninformed vote.

If the vote goes for barack again I believe the country will get what it deserves and then you can be sad.

AWESOME comment about the charitable givings!

Zoroaster#1.101: Amount of money and running for President? Probably. Methods obtained? You're wrong, other than Bush. 80 percent of Congress? I'll give you 40 percent, at least in their inital campaigns. Additionally, President Obama, his family, and his wifes family can keenly empathize with the ordinary people of an egalitarian system. Regards

Mr Amazing: All's clear to you huh? You know and the rest of us don't. I contend you're as full of it as a stopped up septic tank. You sound amazingly like "Frank Luntz". Most big money people give, in various ways, to their charities. Usually makes 'em money.

StoptheCannibals-2908428...(#1.74)....

"If that's so true then why when we "normal" people invest for our retirement, we pay ordinary income tax on the gains when we pull it out? Why shouldn't we be taxed at 15%?"

I'll try to explain:

If you "invest" in a Traditional IRA or 401(k) plan...that money is deducted from your paycheck "PRETAX". They are "deferred tax accounts" The idea being is that it lowers your current taxable income and you will be in a lower tax bracket when you retire and take the money out than when you put it in.

Folks need to educate themselves on where they are putting their money.

"In contrast to a traditional IRA, contributions to a Roth IRA are not tax-deductible. Withdrawals are generally tax-free, but not always and not without certain stipulations (i.e., tax free when the plan has been opened for at least 5 years for principal withdrawals and the owner's age is at least 59½ for withdrawals on the growth portion above principal). An advantage of the Roth IRA over a traditional IRA is that there are fewer withdrawal restrictions and requirements. Transactions inside an account (including capital gains, dividends, and interest) do not incur a current tax liability."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roth_IRA#Differences_from_a_traditional_IRA

So, using your example...If you take that $1,000 after taxes and invest in a Roth IRA, you get the same if not better tax results as Mitt does as a consequence. The withdrawls are TAX FREE.

You either pay the taxes before or after....it's up to you.

Slippery Romney is not as slick as he thinks! There are more questions than answers after his partial reveal of money matters.

It's going to bite you in the ass, Romney. And rightfully so. You are as much of a liar as that Dumbama dude on the other side.

Mike in DelRay,

Yeah they're collapsing your posts and others, I open most of these to see if they (the collapsed posts) are worthwhile. To my pleasant surprise yours were. No spite or insults just facts and explanations. Which is why they were collapsed. You can not, may not, every use facts. Just some humor to end the post.

Democrats do not despise the fact that Mitt Romney is rich. We also respect the fact that he paid the amount of taxes that he was legally binded to pay. However, we do contend with the fact that his tax rate, whether is be on investment, or labor, was just 15%. This is lower than alot of working class people, struggling to make it. We also despise that Republicans are actively fighting to keep this unfair system in place. It's not like this system has some type of economic benefit. I think we have all concluded deep down in our hearts that the trickle down effect is a scam made up by a bunch of rich people to get richer. And it's not like they are powerless to do so. They clearly are fighting to do this so that the richest people don't have to pay as much taxes, proportionally, to the average american. That is plain wrong.

It always amuses me how the sheep is always eager and willing to vote for the fox. I mean, how can average americans vote for a party, who is protecting the interest of only the richest people leading the party. Are you paying an effective tax rate of 15%? If not, why would you vote for someone who is fighting to keep their tax rates at that historically low level, and isn't even worried about your tax rates? As far as they are concerned you don't matter. That is trully idiotic way of thinking. For that reason my vote in 2012 is going for Obama/Biden.

OH and we can't forget Newt Gingriches great idea to eliminate the capital gains tax. Can you imagine a place where people like Romney, earning 40 million dollars a year, have to pay close to zero dollars in taxes, but the average middle class person has to pay the same amount. In that case, it might not even be about percentages any more. Romney could actually be paying less dollars than you, and not just a smaller percentage of his income. That is a new height of greed, and that is sad, and worriesome. That is not the america where i want to live.

@genius12 - you do realize that middle class earners generally have an effective tax rate of 5% or less right? Last year my effective tax rate was 6%. So, why would I vote for someone paying 15%? Because I know he paid more in taxes than 2500 people combined making $35,000 or less.

I am all for personal success in this country, and I don't necessarily support the Occupy movement, but come on...I don't want an elitest aristocrat as my president. All he knows is what the top 1% know, he isn't capable of representing me. On that note, I don't know that Gingrich can either, let's see Ron Paul's and Santorum's returns, then I'll make my decision.

You do know that President Obama is also in the 1% club.

@Justagrunt they always overlook that fact. Any of the boys who make it into the good o'l white house are usually in the top 1%. Maaayyybbeeee they're in the top 4% at the least. So they never truly know where you are coming from Acdca. I mean, what did you think? He'd have a shot if he was making what the average Joe makes? That'd be hard to do and be able to afford to travel and campaign for yourself.

"You do know that President Obama is also in the 1% club."

No he is not.

Yes he is! How much wealth do you think he is gathering from his dealings in Washington? You don't think that China is thankful to Obama for rejecting the Keystone Pipeline. Want me to go on? One more observation. Romney made his money by working, not by playing golf.

breadex

"You do know that President Obama is also in the 1% club."

No he is not.

What an ignorant statement! YES, he is! He sure the heck ain't middle or upper class. Upper echelon is more like it, the extremely rich and privileged. Just like all the players (actors/actresses/musicians/producers/directors/comedians,etc.) in Hollywood. Sure don't hear anyone complaining about all the money they make OR their extravagant lifestyles. They're in the 1% also, welcome to the REAL world.

There is a difference. Obama wasn't born into that kind of wealth. Romney's dad was a CEO.

Yes, Obama is one of the top 1%. One only has to make about $500,000 to qualify for the club. I saw an article a while back that said Obama made about $6 million last year. He definitely IS in the top 1%.

Here is a link that will enlighten. Interesting to note is "republicans" make up a larger percentage of the top 1%, but "democrats" are not far behind...

http://www.gallup.com/poll/151310/U.S.-Republican-Not-Conservative.aspx

Are they not ALL in that 1% "club"

Pragmatic,

So you are saying that some 1% ers are better then others?

Ok so top 1% starts around $500,000,

Obama made $1.7 million, Gingrich made $3.1 million and Romney $46 million (that we know about)

Who better understands the struggles 99% of Americans are facing?

Did Romney have to get scholarships and financial aid to go to college, or even his private high school?

Think Romney understood what it took to buy a house since his dad bought him his?

Come on now...

American exceptionalism IS Obama, period. His story is the definition of what this country is all about. Romeny's story is Wall Street and he is Gordon Gecko...which is more American?

I differ with the original assertion. To be in the top 1% one has to have a total net worth of $2M - 5M or more (those of you who think you have anything in common with that or a shot at it might want to re-examine reality - the average American family with a pre-tax income in the mid-$50k range and net worth around $120k which means a mortgage and no trust funds to fall back on).

Alternately Willard "Mitt" Romney (my former Governor & neighbor given his claimed home base is a couple miles away) is not just in the 1%. With his net worth of $200M (assuming what off-shored is even countable) he's in the much more elite 0.1%. While he inherited a position in the comfortable >1% that advantage helped him leverage a much higher position of wealth and power beyond any lawer's or doctors retirment position of 1% if they're careful. Folks in the top 0.1% come from many backgrounds but it’s infrequent to meet one whose wealth wasn’t acquired, gross inheritance windfalls aside, through direct or indirect participation in the financial and banking industries....that's right the ones who weaseled and leveraged our system and borrowed to extract profit from the collapses of businesses while maintinaing golden chutes for those at the top. Are they *really* our "we'll fix America" heroes? Or simple exploiters of the middle class audacious enough to come back to the table and insist on more tax cuts for the wealthy? As was said by Forbes it’s crystal clear that the Bush tax reduction on capital gains and dividend income in 2003 was the cutting edge policy that has created the immense increase in net-worth of corporate executives, Wall St. professionals and other entrepreneurs.....while the working and retired middle class slipped as the only REAL losers in the recession.

JustaGrunt,

You are absolutely right, Obama makes millions, where are his tax returns and what percentage did he pay? Also what investments does he have?

Get off this 1% bull crap. You want more money, you have to scrap the tax code and go to a flat tax. No other way out, no matter how you and the buy votes with gimmies Democrats spin it.

ALL presidents are wealthy...

Nancy Pelosi's "worth" went from $20 million in 2009 to $35.2 million in 2010.

John Kerry's vault was reported to hold $268 MILLION in 2006.

Yea, Romney has money, but so do many others. And they ALL play the same game. Don't blame the guys getting rich who are PLAYING BY THE RULES, change the rules to make them fair and stop attacking those who operate within the boundaries...

I should clarify my statement in 2.10 (just found the info)... Obama made about $1.8 million last year. He made about $5.6 million in 2009... Reasons were not given for the total decrease in earnings, but a large part was due to his book royalties falling off...

Of course it does show he is smart enough to earn this type of money he may also be smart enough to fix the country's economic woes. Smart and rich or dumb and poor? I vote for the smart and rich. Now don't call me rich because I am as poor as a church mouse. I just think some people belong in certain positions and some do not. For example, because of his failure to even show progress in solving our economic mess Barack Obama does not belong in the office of president. Why be jealous or envious of someone who has money? They probably worked very hard and deserve it.

Speaking of Obama. what was the name of his book? Presidents for dummies?

I never made over $50k in a year..and never heard of this ' carried interest exception ' until now. No wonder those hedge fund managers are so rich. Most times you can't become richer unless you have money to become richer.

@MR. Blue; Looking down on the peasants and the elite aristocrat comparison is exactly what we have as a president right now. You guys are so blind to the wolf in sheep's clothing. barack has never held a regular job in this country. Mitt owned businesses, Newt is at least massively educated. barack is an elite by every definition. He says he's for the poor as long as he and those like him do not have to sacrifice. Everyone else has to sacrifice...especially those who've made their money in the private sector. barack only believes that people should be rich if they are part of the ruling class. Marxist, socialist, or communist; you could roll them into one and you've got baracks beliefs. But yeah Mitt's a bad guy for making money.

The comments about 1% are a joke. I have yet to hear anyone use that term who actually understands it. If you're on this forum and you don't have enough money to pay your electric bill, cancel your internet and data plan for your cell phone...but you can't live without those can you? You better thank God for the top 1% of this country because without them you wouldn't be able to get your government aid in whatever fashion it's in.

There's a puppet show going on; the master soros pulls the strings of the ignorant barack who spoon feeds propaganda to the bought and paid for media machine who fluffs it up and distributes it to the masses (you) who then buys into it hook line and sinker and becomes mindless robots programmed to say the stupidest things without every thinking about it. barack is the great divider and you regurgitating crap about "the 1%" is a perfect example of it.

Compared to the fortune of John Keary, (his Heinz Spouse); (closer to a billionaire) or more, Romney's total assets are a pittance. What about the Kennedy's?---

Romney should of shown his "Spread Sheet" long ago----

Hope Gingrich is satisfied. Ron Paul?---he says he has "nothing" in Assets, compared to the others; How does one know, unless he throws his out there?

@ we the corporations.

Are you serious? First of all read more than a headline. Top 1% starts at about 380k not 500k don't spin it like MSNBC.

Secondly, did you actually say that because barack made 1.7 million he better understands the struggles of the common man? Wow dude...Wow!

The debt is what it is because of a largely Republican Congress over the past eleven years

What an ignorant statement. Democrats were in control of the House and Senate for the last 2 years of Pres. Bush's presidency and the first 2 of Pres. Obama's. It's only been since the landslide November 2010 election that Republicans were in control of the House. Democrats still control the Senate which is why this nation hasn't had a budget in more than 1000 days.

These numbers don't even account for the the money he makes from offshore banks, like in the Cayman Islands. So the actual annual salary is bigger, just he doesn't pay taxes on it.

To look at this in another way, one could say that Mr. Romney will have paid over $6 million in federal income taxes over a two year period....that's one household pumping about $3 million per year into federal coffers...plus whatever the Romney family spent on other taxes, such as state income tax. property taxes, etc.

One might say that $3 million per year from a single household could be construed as a large "share" of government revenues. There will be plenty of posts on this site explained how "un-fair" that "share" is. But it is $3 million from one household in a nation where 47% don't pay any federal income taxes at all.

Seems like the Romney family is doing their part for their nation tax-wise and has also been very generous to charities.

But that just won't do for many on this site. Let the hostility, envy, and vitriol begin !!!

Do you really want the country run by some smelly hippies that setup camp and forget to bring a toilet? We already have enough incompetence in DC and its unlikely to change. Our only chance is to push the power back to states and hope at least "most" of them can do a better job.

So you are saying that some 1% ers are better then others?

I'm saying that I have more respect for people who earn their money than people who are born into money.

Jeff:

Romney is not the only Mega Wealthy people who put their investments/money in Swiss Bank Accounts or i.e. Cayman Islands, other Overseas accounts to avoid paying taxes--.

Extremely wealthy are shrewd and smart.

If anyone looked into other Politicians Assets, or others who are way over the top in different vestments---any person with financial intelligence will do the same. If they should "lose" their money that is accountable, then they have another safe haven to "dig into"---"Don't put your eggs all in one basket" mentality.

Shrewd People---Wealth--Power. Smart.

He had a Swiss bank account but now closed..and I know the reason for that.

Last year the Swiss banks had to give the Feds a list of all US bank account holders with amounts..you never seen a bunch of people close their accounts so fast. Talk about tax evasion!

Yes President Obama is in the 1% club - And he wants to pay more taxes. Unlike the greedy bastards who don't want to pay the same percentage then the people he hires.

I don't call being American by rigging the tax code for people making money solely on investments pays a lower tax rate than everyone else.

And don't worry the people who comment on this you wont be in the 1% anytime soon.

If i was in the 1% i surely would not be posting on MSNBC web site defending paying a lower tax rate than my employees.

@Hawaii2

I agree, Romney is no dumby with his money. I'm also not stating that he's the only wealthy person who hides he money in other countries. This being said, it still means that his tax returns are misleading toa degree. There is a lot of unaccounted for money missing from his returns that is not evident without the knowledge that Romney hold money offshore to avoid income tax.

Investment income is different because you invest money (placing it at risk) in order to make money on it. With the volatility in today's markets, there is a very real possibility that you can lose your money instead of make it. And if you lose money, you can only write off a limited amount of your losses. The tax benefits of investing are one of the reasons that people with money invest it, and we need their investments to fuel economic growth (this is the money that companies use to expand, build buildings and plants, etc.)

If that's so true then why when we "normal" people invest for our retirement, we pay ordinary income tax on the gains when we pull it out? Why shouldn't we be taxed at 15%? We invested our hard-earned money the same way Romney does.

We also have some moroons on here stating that the money Romney invested ends up being taxed twice. Wrong. If I make $1,000 after tax, and I invest that $1,000 in stock, and I sell the stock the next year for $2,500, I'll pay capital gains tax on the GAIN only. I'll pay the tax on ($2,500 - $1,000--my cost) =$1,500. I will NOT pay any more tax on the original $1,000 investment.

It is exactly right that Republican drones will go along and vote against their own self-interest (and all those others they drag down with them), just to show devotion to a Party that couldn't care less about them. They would literally follow their leader and jump off a cliff for someone who would stick a knife in their back if it meant becoming President.

Prag...

It appears that Mr. Romney earned his own money, from what has been reported. What does having a dad who was a 'CEO' have to do with anything ? The man has obviously succeeded tremendously...I don't know why anyone has a problem with a potential president who has been tremendously successful in his lfe.

It's still early...should we send out a search committee to find some tremendously unsuccessful people to run for the office ???

OMG. I don't know which I find more shameful, the ignorant liberals who don't think obama is in the top 1% or the equally stupid people who feel obama "wants" to pay more in taxes himself. If obama really wanted to pay more in taxes, he could write a check to the treasury. People who support obama really need to get their heads out of their butts and learn to think for themselves.

Poor people don't give $7 million to charity and pay $6.2 million to the US Treasury. This was not inherited money, this was money he earned. He received a good education, worked hard, made big bucks, and paid big bucks in taxes and is able to give large sums to charity. This is what success looks like.

I would much rather have a successful, accomplished business person than a career politician or inexperienced community organizer. We have lost our way as a nation when we start hating success.

The Kerry's and the Kennedy's have far more money than Romney. And they did not work for a penny of it. Pelosi comes from a very wealthy family and married a wealthy real estate developer. Obama had a modest background and is now clearly in the 1% due to book royalties. Bill Clinton had a very modest background and is now quite wealthy due to books and speaking fees. Reagan had a modest background and earned his money.

Start being more objective, Newsvine. No one wants a loser to be their leader. We elect the best of the best to become President. I have no problem with Obama or Romney having more than I do.

Jeff wrote: OMG. I don't know which I find more shameful, the ignorant liberals who don't think obama is in the top 1% or the equally stupid people who feel obama "wants" to pay more in taxes himself. If obama really wanted to pay more in taxes, he could write a check to the treasury. People who support obama really need to get their heads out of their butts and learn to think for themselves.

Do you really expect us to believe that drool that is coming out of your right-wing mouths about this? If they want to pay more, they can pay the Treasury? That 1 or 2 or 5 people want to pay more, so only THEY should pay?

I think they all mean that they would (and should) accept a higher tax rate for ALL of those making the same huge amounts, to sacrifice the same as we all need to. That paying 3% more in tax won't put them on food stamps, won't keep them from making millions, that they are just too put upon to help the country. Try to follow the logic Jeff. Don't throw the red herrings out and expect us to actually agree with your dribble about letting them pay more. Talk about shameful......How many Bentleys can you drive Jeff?; How many $20 million homes can you live in Jeff? Let's tax grandma living on Social Security (yes, those 46% who pay no Federal income tax) so you can have one more yacht.

It was never illegal to hold a Swiss bank account. As long as it was declared and income in/from it declared as well. Same goes for any offshore account.

@peanutGalleryTheater,

Do you even know why the Federal Government has power over states?

Does the civil war ring a bell. It happen because they the southern states wanted to continue slavery.

Currently the federal government give states aid for school, fire fighters, police, hospitals and townships I'm sure you want to dismantle the whole government. Then who would protect you from lawlessness? Your company would more and likely fold. So i want you to keep up the stupid states writes issues as if it is ever going to happen. You do know you need a constitutional amendment ratified by all 3/4 of the states in order to get rid of the 10th amendment. Tell me you do know this or do you just listen to ignorant repukes talking points that you think are facts.

N.C. Thornton

The debt is what it is because of a largely Republican Congress over the past eleven years.

LMAO! You already forgot that you've held the majority for years now? You conveniently forgot about the SUPERMAJORITY held by Democrats for 2 years I see! LOL! You're right though, the President doesn't spend, the Congress spends....................so tell the Democrats to PASS A BUDGET FOR GOD'S SAKE

He definitely is not 99%. So what?

Time to grow up, kids. Please understand, we are electing the President to be an efficient manager, not to be "one of [social, racial, religious, whatnot group]". If under his management my income (and maybe, more importantly, the feeling it is stable) goes up, and gas price goes down, I wouldn't care if his income is ten times what it's now, and his effective tax rate is half what it is now (hint: if you invest in muni bonds, your tax rate on that income will be zero, zilch, zip, 0%). I wouln't even care if all his interns wear blue dresses and have great oral skills (remember Clinton?), and even that some of them are male (remember former NJ guv McGreevy?).

Having said that, Romney still has a lot to do to persuade me that he IS an efficient manager (or, to be more precise, that he WILL BE efficient in the position he's applying for). However Obama has to do even more - nothing short of miracle - to persuade America that he's not the least efficient person that ever held the position. For now, Obama is poised to take over the title of the Worst President Ever from Jimmy Carter. The only thing that can stop him from that is his proven inability to get anything done.

The fact of the matter is the President has made more money as Senator and President than in the rest of his entire life. He will continue to make millions for the rest of his life making more after he is out of office, which in my book is just fine, but he is doing so as a politician.

But why do people look down on entrepreneurs. A person most likely created your job. If you are so resentful of people making money go out and create wealth and I guarantee in the process you will help many. It is a fundamental question, do you want people like Buffett investing in our future or the government?

If Mitt Romney is considered part of the 1% and pays lower taxes the most, isn't he one of the "job creators"?

If he is an example of the GOP's policy and reasoning of why taxes shouldn't be raised on the 1% and to whom "the working class" should count on to create jobs, how many jobs has he created since Bain?

Also, if you haven't had the motivation to have a job yourself for at least 10 years (I don't count speeches or books) why would I think you would have the motivation or the knowledge to find me a job?

Weiser, The Democrats did not hold a supermajority for 2 years. It was for about 2 weeks.

Obama did submit a budget each year. The Republicans would not consent to any of them.

Nice try.

I'd prefer someone in the "1%" running things because they most likely have the skills and experience required to do the job.

I'm in the 99% myself but aspire to someday be in the 1%. I know plenty of people who have done it. Anyone who whines about someone else being rich is just plain envious. By the way, that's not a good thing.

I'm so sick of this backward way of thinking where the more accomplishments and success you can show on your resume, the more you are despised. And instead we go for and vote for people who have no previous experience or notable accomplishments (OBAMA). What a messed up society...

Uh....2 weeks?? Time to study up on your RECENT history LOL.

FYI: with a supermajority he could have passed ANY budget he wanted. There was NO WAY for the Republicans to block one. Nice try.

Talk about class warfare, more like the really upper-class and the really lower-class...

What I don't understand is why do people that don't work for a living (Having money make money for them) Pay less taxes than those of us that physically have to work for a living...

42+ million WOW! And never broke a sweat...

Simple, i don't think anyone has a problem with making a lot of money or being rich. We ask that they pay a fair share of tax. What that fair share is can be debated, but don't deflect the issue by saying that by asking for, what we think, should be more, by falsely stating we are against success or "despise" the rich. It just isn't true and we know why you try to say it.

We weren't born yesterday and your point is resentful.

How do you know he never broke a sweat? How do you know he hasn't spent the majority of his years working 12-15 or more hour days? Do you have to literally "break a sweat" on the job?????? He pays more on ORDINARY INCOME than you do and the EXACT SAME RATE AS YOU ON INVESTMENTS. Why is everyone on the left so consumed with comparing two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS??????????????

Stop the Cannibals-

Obama's budget plan you speak of...the one he 'submitted,' did not receive one single vote

in the senate. Not one. That means that his own party, the Democrats, would/did not vote for it

either. Why are you just mentioning that the GOP would not 'consent to it?' Does anyone even recognize that since the GOP has taken control of the House that unemployment has dropped, GDP is on the rise and that sales of homes was up by 5% last month. Which is one of the main economic indicators. Let's try not to be so polarizing like our president. And...OMG!! Mitt Romney

has produced his tax returns showing that he has paid over $6million in tax revenue over the last 2 years and made over $7 million in charitable contributions over last 2 years as well!!! Hmmm...I guess all of the Liberals will have a problem with this somehow though.

Yes Rob: how dare he donate to charity and not to the federal government!!! ;)

He doesn't have to invest. He can put his money away and pay $0 taxes if he wants too. He would be pretty hard pressed to run out of money even if he doesn't make another dime. That is the point about capital gains. We want to encourage risk taking. It is all a formula, you evaluate risk vs reward and the higher the tax burden the less risk you are willing to take.

Now I would like to see the tax returns of every candidate.

Uh....2 weeks?? Time to study up on your RECENT history LOL.

Weiser, maybe you haven't been on these threads much but we've been through that old, tired argument at least 10 times now. When Kennedy was sick, and Scott Brown won his seat, there was a very short period of time where the Democrats could have passed legislation, but it also required Lieberman to vote Democratic (which he didn't always do), and, it meant every single Democrat had to vote the same way (or a Republican had to jump on board).

We know what happened, and the facts. Republicans just think they can make something true if they lie about it enough, Republicans needed a leader (so they anointed Ronald Reagan and told us over and over and over how great Ronald Reagan was), Republicans needed a grand accomplishment (so they said over and over how Reagan collapsed the USSR- despite the USSR running out of money).

It IS laughable....

Wow, here we go again. The 47% who don't pay income taxes at all. CNN made a big deal of that as well. Of course they don't mention that the 47% are those with low paying jobs just barely scraping by and people like Romney want to squeeze that last bit of blood out of a rock so they don't have to pay their share. The reason they made it a percentage of the income rather that, say, assessing everyone a certain amount was so it would be more fair. When I do my taxes I don't look at the amount I've paid and say "Well, the guy living in shack only paid X number of dollars, why do I pay three times (or 5 or whatever it is) as much?" As for his tax rate, am I upset he paid hald the rate I do? Darned straight but then I'd be upset at someone who was at my pay level also had his rate start at half of mine and then get to add deductions on that lower the rate even further. Why is investment income taxed so low? It's a case of the money people taking care of the money people.

Let's look at another falsehood being presented here. Romney is crowing about saving the olympics and how much money he's made and the we come to find out his money is in a blind trust! So that means he's not even calling the shots as far as how his money gets made. He just sits back and profits off the work of others. You want to hire somebody that knows how to make money, hire his freaking broker. I'm sure the guy isn't stupid. Stupid would buy themselves int debt from a position of wealth. We see it everyday in sports. But don't tell me he's some sort of wizard, he just has a good broker.

Gotta love it! Newsflash: NOT ONE DEMOCRAT VOTED FOR OBAMA'S BUDGET!!!! But yeah, keep blaming the Republicans!!!! Now THAT is laughable

StoptheCannibals-2908428...(#2.45)...Obama did submit a budget each year. The Republicans would not consent to any of them.

Nice try."......Nice try yourself....The Democrat Senate is the one that hasn't passed a budget, read on....

Obama's FY 2012 Budget:

"President's budget sinks, 97-0"....."The Senate voted unanimously on Wednesday to reject a $3.7 trillion budget plan that President Obama sent to Capitol Hill in February.".."The Senate also rejected the House-passed budget sponsored by Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), which failed on a 40-57 vote."

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/163347-senate-votes-unanimously-against-obama-budget

The country has been running on Continuing Resolutions.

"•The last time the Senate passed a budget was on April 29, 2009.

•Since
that date, the federal government has spent $9.4 trillion, adding $4.1 trillion
in debt.

•As of January 20, the outstanding public debt stands at
$15,240,174,635,409.

•Interest payments on the debt are now more than
$200 billion per year.

•President Obama proposed a FY2012 budget last
year, and the Senate voted it down 97–0. (And that budget was no prize—according
to the Congressional Budget Office, that proposal never had an annual deficit of
less than $748 billion, would double the national debt in 10 years and would see
annual interest payments approach $1 trillion per year.)"

http://freedomeden.blogspot.com/2012/01/1000-days-no-budget.html

He doesn't have to invest. He can put his money away and pay $0 taxes if he wants too. He would be pretty hard pressed to run out of money even if he doesn't make another dime. That is the point about capital gains and not even the President to change that. We want to encourage risk taking.

Just my point Patrick. A lot of us working class invest too. We do it in our retirement accounts, and boy, do we know about risk. Why aren't my profits going to be taxed at 15%? Why does Romney, and people like him, get treated better off than us? The only difference is he makes a lot more money. That's class warfare, but I don't hear you arguing for us. They also call the working class wages as "earned" income, vs. the "passive" income the rich report.

Rob & Weiser, we all know the Democrats didn't vote for the budget because the Republicans weren't going to vote for it and it wouldn't be consented to in the end. If Obama had put in entitlement cuts, the Republicans would have done exactly what they did when Medicare Advantage was cut - they went out chastising the Democrats. You're trying to argue points that got Republicans a 12% approval rating. Do you really want to go there?

Do we really have to debate things you know are just political points your right-wing leaders ( and Fox News) try to do? That just shows how inept you are.

Senate voted it down 97–0

How quickly people forget when the press is in the tank. Our 4th checks and balances is a national disgrace.

Romney already paid the highest tax rates there are when he earned that money that is now making him more money. Funny that the silly libbies never seem to acknowledge that.

My parents are rather poor but they also live off there investment income from money they saved that was taxed when they worked.

Liberals! God love em! LMFAO!

Y'know, its funny how many people say they don't want to vote for a rich person. How the heck is a poor person supposed to run for office? They can't afford advertising, they can't afford travel, they couldn't afford a campaign. There would be absolutely NO name recognition, and the likelihood is, a poor person wouldn't have the business and management savvy to do the job effectively. The reason we vote for these famous and usually rich people is because they know what they're doing. Or are supposed to, anyway. Obama seems to be an exception, his lack of business experience is coming back to bite him. And the rest of us. But back to the point, you have to have a significant amount of time spent in a high-level job to have the experience necessary to handle a job like the presidency. I would bet if the average Joe off the street were voted in, you'd find him in the corner sucking his thumb inside a week. I'd much rather vote for a CEO than a burger flipper. Which would be less likely to offend a foreign government with some stupid faux pas?

Mike, why are you quoting a budget deficit that you say never existed? Why have the Republicans let our country run without a budget? Why haven't the Bush tax cuts created any jobs? Why has the economy not improved much since Republicans won the House in 2010?

Why don't you concentrate on your own Party's failings?

Since 2010 the Dow has gone UP and unemployment has gone DOWN. Just two small incidences

Criticism of Romney because he knows how to make money is pathetically amusing.

The facts show that there are just as many liberal/democrats in that 1% club (including Obama) as conservative/republicans. Their socialist ideology prevents them from acknowledging this because it pretty much trashes their argument that Romney or any of the other republicans are some kind of out of touch aristocrats.

These people (Romney and others) have continually demonstrated a business acumen and understanding of how economies work and the necessity for fiscal responsibility. What would these complainers have? A president that is a failure with little understanding of how economies function with absolutely no regard for fiscal responsibility? Oh wait, we have one.

Rob & Weiser, we all know the Democrats didn't vote for the budget because the Republicans weren't going to vote for it and it wouldn't be consented to in the end

So they showed ZERO support for their leader because they knew the Republicans weren't going to vote for it????? He got ZERO votes for that reason????? Uh..................NICE LOGIC.

I keep reading our rich guy is better than your rich guy. Sounds like a bunch of little kids on the play ground. The truth is they are all rich. Dem & Rep, None of them understand how the rest live. They are all elitists. Having one sides rich politicianmaking more or less doesn't make either better. They are all there to line their pockets and do the bidding of the highest bidder! Unless you have a few spare millions that you can contribute to the campaign you are not going to have an influence, PEROID!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2011-11-15/congress-wealthy-1/51216626/1

9 out of the top 12 are Democrats lol

A lot of us working class invest too. We do it in our retirement accounts, and boy, do we know about risk. Why aren't my profits going to be taxed at 15%?

You are comparing apples with oranges, Romney has already paid income tax on his invested money. I agree with you though, 401k benefits should be strengthened and more flexibility should be allowed and less tax burden when withdrawn at retirement.

StoptheCannibals,

Investing tip for you. Put money in a Roth IRA. All interest, dividends, capital gains are tax free for life. There are income limits so the 1% cannot use it. It will likely survive any tax code reform because it is directed at the middle class and it provides investment capital to banks, etc.

Stop whining about everybody else and do something!

Solutions 539,

So i want you to keep up the stupid states writes issues as if it is ever going to happen. You do know you need a constitutional amendment ratified by all 3/4 of the states in order to get rid of the 10th amendment.

Have you read the tenth amendment it defines state rights there would be no reason to get rid of it.

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Maybe you can tell me where in the constitution all of the things that you mentioned in your post are delegated to the united states by the constitution because my copy must be missing those parts.

People that think that a few hundred people in washington know how to run the lives of 300+ million better than those individuals are scary and reprehensible when it comes to the foundations of freedom and liberty.

Redneck, maybe your a little slow today, but my point was to make ALL investment gains taxed at 15% for you, your parents, our retirement plans, and even Romney's investment gains.

There is a problem with "carried interest", that is really a brokers wages that take the form of Capital gains and taxed at a lower rate than what you, or I, or your parents paid on wages.

The income disparity is growing and your droning will only make it worse. It's time for the rich to sacrifice for the greatest country in the world, just like the rest of us are doing.

Idiotic athletes make far more! And Romney is no idiot!

Tiger Woods -- $75 million

Kobe Bryant -- $53 million

LeBron James --- $48 million

Phil Mickelson -- $46 million

Alex Rodriguez -- $35 million

Michael Schumacher $34 million

Tom Brady $31 million

Derek Jeter $29 million

Dale Earnhardt $28 million

Dwitht Howard $27 million

Dwayne Wade $26 million

Payton Manning $26 million

Carmelo Anthony $25 million

Jeff Gordon $24 million

Amare Stoudemire $24 million

These jerks could not tell their arses from a hole in the ground and look at their outrageous salaries. And you are upset about Romney? Get Real!!!!!!!!!

WeiserJG, Mike in delRay, Red and Wet Willy- All well stated and thank you for showing

some common sense. Something our current Admin. seriously lacks in.

'The democrats did not vote for Obama's budget plan because they all knew the Republicans would go against it'???? WTF?? That is a unbelievable of a comment as I have ever seen!! Are you kidding??

Also, whomever stated some nonsense of how the economy is not doing anything since the GOP took back the House in 2010...really?? The Unemployment rate has been down both of the last 2 months, housing sales up 5% last month, car sales up last year. Let's see when did the GOP take over in the House, January of last year? Come on...figure it out folks.

StoptheCannibals,

Investing tip for you. Put money in a Roth IRA. All interest, dividends, capital gains are tax free for life. There are income limits so the 1% cannot use it. It will likely survive any tax code reform because it is directed at the middle class and it provides investment capital to banks, etc.

Stop whining about everybody else and do something!

Ok, brilliant Gary, but what happens when Herman Cain's 9/9/9 plan (or any national sales tax or consumption tax) gets passed. Your Roth just got taxed...Sherlock.

First rule in tax....take the deduction NOW, because it may not be there. Congress can (and does) change tax law.

Btw, I do have a small Roth account (to get the 5 year minimum in), but I would only risk $5,000 a year going into it, and only outside a company's retirement plan). BTW, I am a CPA.

Solutions:

Obama will be extremely wealthy, once he leaves office, this term, or the next--

The Clinton's are one of the richest couples in the United States. The actual office of the Presidency does not allow a US President to get a super grand salary while serving, although $400,000 per year is nothing to belittle. Now all their expenses are paid for re: travel, staff, security, other people who "serve" them..

Once Obama is out of office, including Michelle, they will be among the wealthiest couples as well, here in the US--there are plenty of opportunities for a desired President to make it big after serving.

No need to worry. Obama will not be in a minority section of the Wealth Dept. Then you can criticize his money-making ventures, lectures, TV appearances, etc.,. They will be a "Hot Ticket" for doing well--in a Capitalistic Society.

Jeff:

Thank you.

I also implied the same comment as yours in my statement..

STOP.... - Your comment, "We also have some moroons on here stating that the money Romney invested ends up being taxed twice. Wrong. If I make $1,000 after tax, and I invest that $1,000 in stock, and I sell the stock the next year for $2,500, I'll pay capital gains tax on the GAIN only. I'll pay the tax on ($2,500 - $1,000--my cost) =$1,500. I will NOT pay any more tax on the original $1,000 investment."

Simply put, YES the money gets taxed twice- Once when you earn it and once when it earns a gain. Funnny thing about money in our economy, you pay taxes a few times on it. You pay state and federal taxes when you earn it, pay local/state/federal taxes when you spend your take home money, pay additional taxes from any gains you may have made by putting it in the bank, pay additional taxes when you invest your money and it makes you money, etc. We get taxed a bunch of times on our incomes, it just is called a number of different things.

Are you saying that you'd like to pay more on your $1,000? Congress is thinking about a VAT(value added tax) that they would put a premium on a product at every step of the process (getting the raw materials, initial processing and fabricating, final fabrication, packaging and distribution, through end sales. The idea is that along all of these steps, "value" is added to the product/process and you should pay for the benefits- mind you, you are buying that xbox but you should also pay a bit more for every time the beginning materials got better. That way you could pay more taxes on your original $1,000. That $300 xbox could cost you 5-8% more in VAT- that would be $315-324 (before sales taxes).

I think a lot of people have no clue about the "1%ers". The President is a 1%er, just look at the number of book deals he (and Michelle) are getting as one example. There are plenty of friendly publishers that want their names under their company logos, so they sign the President and Michelle on for some nice book deals. Then they get someone to write a book for them, put their name on the top, get a photo taken, and whala they get income from the book contract, signing bonus/advance, and the book sales. The President has a substantial income ($450K if I recall = 1%), he has investments and properties, book deals, can get speaking fees, etc. etc. that will only grow when he leaves office.

Do I begrudge the President, Romney, etc. for taking advantage of the moment/their careers and making money- no. I am getting tired of wealthy people say that they "would pay more" when the reality is that they pay people to find loopholes in the tax laws to keep as much as possible when paying their taxes. Their words are just words and have no real value to them. I will fall over when a politician proceeds to give away all of their income in the name of paying enough.

Lastly, on the whole disclosure thing- I think that IF the media is going to hang you unless you disclose your personal information then all candidates should just lay it out there and claim that they are human. The President took FOREVER in releasing his birth certificate and never released his college transcripts, papers, lectures, etc. What's the big deal, I'll get over it that you got a "C" in college physics as I'm not sure how it relates to your value as our country's CEO. As long as everyone is held to the same level of scrutney I'm ok with a divulge all mentality.

Herman Cain's 9/9/9

You make an excellent point. Cain's plan was actually decent because it eliminated the hidden taxes and fees we are already paying. But we all know they would come back and then we would have the sales tax to boot.

It is so tiresome to hear about the wealthy paying taxes. Yes they should be obligated to pay their fair share and not be able to shelter their income so easily. But at the end of the day, for those that have not done the math, the 1% that should pay more are not going to save any of us. Our numbers are too large for that 1% to cover what we do not want to pay in taxes.

The issue is more about that tax laws than the individual. He followed the law, or shall we say his accountant followed the law. If we do not like the tax law, we need to get our legislators to change it. Good luck.

In the meantime, stop with the tax returns, he showed it, big deal. Let's move on. I think Gingrich's lack of morals are more of an issue as he cannot be trusted. Shall we run him out of Washington again?

Simply put, YES the money gets taxed twice- Once when you earn it and once when it earns a gain.

Joe, "it" never gets taxed again, so how can "it" be taxed twice?. The money it earns does, and that sounds right, because it's the "gain" that gets taxed because of the extra benefit (income) that came about.

If I earn money, pay tax on it, and then go to school with the money and make money because of that, are you saying I should never have to pay tax on the future wage earnings because I paid tax on the money I used to go to school?

Dividends are subject to double taxation. It is first taxed at the corporate level as profits, then, it's taxed again when the recipient receives the profits, through a dividend.

Patrick, the 9/9/9 plan was terrible. It's a regressive tax, it wouldn't eliminate anything because prices would not have gone down (price is a function of supply and demand), and it would have (through the back door) taxed any income that was currently non-taxable, i.e., insurance proceeds, gifts (yes, even Grandma's $20 in the b-day card, inheritance (even under the $1.2 million exemption, Roth accounts, muni interest. It would all would have been taxed now when you spent it.

The democrats did not vote for Obama's budget plan because they all knew the Republicans would go against it'???? WTF?? That is a unbelievable of a comment as I have ever seen!! Are you kidding??

Kind of like how Republicans voted to allow Obama to raise the debt ceiling again, but then voted to "disapprove' of it even though it meant nothing...it's called politics.

Also, whomever stated some nonsense of how the economy is not doing anything since the GOP took back the House in 2010...really?? The Unemployment rate has been down both of the last 2 months, housing sales up 5% last month, car sales up last year. Let's see when did the GOP take over in the House, January of last year? Come on...figure it out folks.

I didn't realize Republicans were going to run on how well they've helped the economy since 2010. Obviously, Romney and the rest haven't made that point....Let's see if they do.

And let's not forget, the Bush tax cuts were put in when President BUSH was in office. That was in 2008. How did 2008 go economically? That's right, we had a financial meltdown and $7 Trillion in American equity got lost in thin air, along with the US debt going to $12 Trillion. We didn't hear s**t from Republicans on that spending. They waited until a Democrat got in before they refused raising the debt ceiling.

Do you remember?.....Republicans hold a 12% favorable rating....it took some work to accomplish that.

Joe, "it" never gets taxed again

Of course it gets taxed again, gas is just one example

prices would not have gone down

I'm guessing you do not believe in capitalism or free markets. Obviously if someone can make money by undercutting the competition they absolutely will cut prices. It is all the jerry rigging that undercuts this principle.

Patrick, that's funny because I never saw any prices drop when tax rates have dropped. Maybe I missed it. Can you tell me when that happened?

As for double tax, we're talking about a specific tax being levied twice, like income tax.

StoptheCannibals, I also am a CPA and an MBA, that's why I gave the Roth IRA suggestion. In case you have not heard, Herman Cain is out of the running. I would not worry about the 9-9-9 plan for a while, if ever. I believe you or others of your ilk were complaining that your IRA withdrawals would be taxed at ordinary rates. The Roth IRA gets around that. I hear you about taking the deduction now. Please understand that 401K and traditional IRA money is taxed deferred for decades, even longer if you die and your kids inherit it.

You railed on and on today against those that have invested ( which creates capital for new companies, mortgages, car loans etc) and then profited from their investments. That's what Romney did. That's what Teresa Heinz Kerry's first husband did, that's what the Kennedy's did.

Yet you won't invest anything yourself. All the shrieking all day about how unfair it all is. You likely have an income where you can invest for yourself and your family. Guess what, the tax code favors investment, there is a reason for that. We need and want investment. Instead of whining about how unfair it all is, why don't you do something?

1. Obama is not in the 1% that thinks that they need even more money and that those in the 99% are just lazy or stupid.

2. Romney is not an Investor. Investors put their money into a company that's pegged to succeed - a GROWING company. Romney is a blood-sucking, robber Baron.

Give it a rest.

Not only THAT, but am I the only one that noticed that he made LESS in 2011 than in 2010? Sounds like he's no solid businessman. And, anyway, the whole notion that this country should be run like a business is hogwash.

And "Bencus," yes, the 1% being taxed fairly WOULD save us. Return their tax rates to what they were before the Bush tas cuts, and you'll see.

Romney's tax returns are very signicant to this race.

Have a nice day.

Weiser...

I give you due credit for your stamina in swimming against the stream on this one !!!

Can you believe how many CPA's are visiting this site today...after giving their thorough and professional reviews of Mr. Romney's 2010 and 2011 tax returns ???

I surely did not know how many tax accountants visited MSN's 'Newsvine' !!!

Shut yer yap, take your own advice dude.

1. Obama's income and assets put him in the 1%. Go ask your OWS buddies what the cutoff is for 1% status. It is roughly $400M in income. Barry made over $1 million. God Bless him. I think we should pay our president a good buck and I don't mind that he made some extra off his book deal. I for one, like the idea of a president being a success in and out of office.

2. Look up the definition of investor. An investor can buy foreclosed houses, oil fields, artwork, antique cars, poorly run companies and on and on. Savvy investors try to buy assets below market value. Easier said than done. A poorly run company or a vacant apartment building can be a good value to an investor that knows what they are doing. The money is made when you buy and realized when you turn it around and sell.

Regarding Romney's income declining. Welcome to Obama's America, my friend. Only the unions and government employees get guaranteed raises each year. The rest of us will have good years and bad years. When you make more than Romney does, I will gladly take your business advice.

Last point. We have a spending problem. Taxing the 1% at the old rates, would bring in less than $50 billion in revenue, a veritable drop in the bucket based on our out of control spending. That $50 Billion ( I think that number actually may be too high) won't even fund one week of our spending.

We need economic growth, a balanced budget, and reduced spending.

Patrick, that's funny because I never saw any prices drop when tax rates have dropped. Maybe I missed it. Can you tell me when that happened

I guess you do not shop at Walmart or eat in restaurants. It is all about the bottom line and competion, you're a CPA right, wink wink

Shut Yer Up:

What? You do not understand the very wealthy from the comments.

All Wealthy people have investments. It's a "game". That would make them obviously stupid not to expand their own Portfolios!---They can take the risk. A bit of Gambling.

What do you know about Finance, Business, and Investments?

Everyone is greedy; the more money people have, the more they need. Living at a different level of the value of money. Some of them go broke, especially the newly rich that win the Lottery. Not ever having money before, they "blow" it; more of them are more broke than when they started out--Shame---no clue to having a business mind.

Look at the Celebs? Have you ever seen a poor one? Do they want to make more money?. How about Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Amazon, Yahoo, Slicon Valley, Doctors, and other Professionals;, the late Steve Jobs--money gives them inspiration to do better.

"Money is what makes the World go around". Fame, Fortune, Good Luck---Damn!!!

shut yer yap Why should the Bush tax cuts be allowed to expire on the top 1%!!?? If they truly were "tax breaks for the wealthy", allowing ALL of them to expire wouldn't harm the nonwealthy. Of the 3.7T over 10 years, only 800B went to the top 2%. If the left is so sure that these tax breaks are for the wealthy, why are they so intent on letting them only expire on "the wealthy"??!! So you think it is fair to give most of the tax breaks to the nonwealthy and then allow only the ones for the wealthy to expire!? It is clear that you are a receiver and not a giver!

TES...

You can smell the bile drooled on the sentences on this site...it is the stink of hatred for one human being toward another, in a major part simply because one of the two possesses 'money'.

Look at the words used...it is vile abject hatred fueled by envy.

One doesn't have to know a single item about another person, his or her life, or family...if there's money, there is hatred.

And it does seem that the majority of it is coming from the compassionate, fair-minded, holier-than-thou members of the Democrat Party.

You folks are really showing yourselves for the 'people' you are by the comments you write. "Words" truly do mean things and they say quite a lot about the people who speak them...and say even more about the people who write them because a written word can always be repaired or deleted.

Joe, "it" never gets taxed again, so how can "it" be taxed twice?. The money it earns does, and that sounds right, because it's the "gain" that gets taxed because of the extra benefit (income) that came about.

When you make an investment in a company you are gaining ownership. Your earnings are the bottom line net income of the company after corporate taxes so you are paying a corporate tax and a capital gains tax.

The fact that obama is in the one percent should be a testament to why their taxes should be raised. He is not looking from the outside in. His proposals would raise taxes on himself too. We consistently says he does not need another tax cut, yet those like romney and gingrich making far more money that him need another tax break, what a bunch of crap.

Funny!

I've also got my fingers crossed on both Mitt and Newt loosing support.

2.2, poster so was Roosevelt and Kennedy, being a one percenter does not automatically disqualify you from being for all of the people. I would vote for Buffett in a heart beat and he is far ahead of the one percenters in wealth. Buffett is a man with wealth but who recognizes that it is the little man who has made him wealthy. 35 billion is said to be his net worth. He said none of his kids will get more than a million or so as an inheritance. He has given billions to charity and other worthwhile projects, he drives his own car. Can you imagine that. He released his income and taxes paid and OPENLY stated that it was lopped sided tax laws which favored him. He, but for his wealth, would not be welcome to dinner at most one percenters homes. Now compare him to that giant newspaper, radio station, TV station owner who usurps his power in favor of the one percenters at every turn. Mr. "C'rush Obama" Limbaugh is his tool of propaganda.

Chuck-295246

I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I personally don't want a filthy rich, never got his hands dirty doin' anything except buryin' an illegal worker in the north 40 somewhere, to be my President. Nah, just ain't gonna happen.

Hate to burst your bubble, but the current community organizer-in-chief has NEVER done an honest day's work either. How's that hypocritical thing working for ya there, Ace?

Realist,

Most politicians are lawyers. Hate to break it to you, but they aren't the type to get their hands dirty doing manual labor. Doesn't matter which party you're talking about here. You pretty much have to be wealthy to run for a national office. You don't get wealthy doing manual labor.

Just for fun, I thought I'd see how long it would take me to make 42 million dollars. It would take me 840 years. By the year 2852, I will have made 2 years' pay for Romney before taxes. Oh, and my calculation doesn't account for taxes. If I were taxed at the rate Romney is taxed at, it would take me 988 years. So in the year 3000 I will have finally made 42 million bucks.

Romneys quote in the SC primary.."i HAD to go to my first job, in the 1970's I worked at the bottom level of a consulting firm". really? bottom level? How do you become a consulant of anything at your fitst job? This guy is was and is a bottom feeder, a spoon shoveled baby that had everything handed to him. He should be the last guy anyone would vote for to our preident. He has no idea what its like to work for his money. The money has worked for him partly because of these horrible tax laws made up for the wealthy to to wealthier. all while putting businesses and people out of work. If he is profiting that much on his investments....then someone else is hurting and losing big time. To me.....? The tax codes need to be rewritten as to be fair with the average american.

Hate to burst your bubble, but the current community organizer-in-chief has NEVER done an honest day's work either. How's that hypocritical thing working for ya there, Ace?

Let's put the "community organizer" label used as a put down bit to rest, shall we?

Do you have even the tiniest clue what a community organizer does or how much effort it requires?

Have you ever tried it? Gandhi was a community organizer as was MLK, both are highly respected historical figures. What might be your contribution to history be I wonder?

Chuck-295246

Does Obama know some of his "volunteer" posters are posting ads along with thier rants for extra money?

"He's not unprosperous, but he's not very prosperous. ... And the people who really are well off hate our guts."

From JFK tapes just released...........seems like nothing has changed in many decades. The 1%ers still convincing their followers that they need to give the rich more tax breaks so that the peons who are not "poor" and just getting by week by week can keep working for them.

What 'dirty hands work' did Oblama ever do? Romney paid millions in tax. How much did you pay? Not percentage, actual money.

hjack,

What are you saying? That it is better to pay more taxes? I bet you wouldn't give the government a cent if you had a choice in the matter. I don't fault you. I doubt anybody would if given the choice.

The 'Green-Eyed Monster' is positively thriving on 'Newsvine' today !!!

What drivel !

jon-..(#3.5)...."How do you become a consulant of anything at your fitst job?"

How bout by "Thus Romney became one of only fifteen students to enroll at the recently created joint Juris Doctor/Master of Business Administration four-year program coordinated between Harvard Law School and Harvard Business School.^"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitt_romney

Imagine that...He got his Law Degree and MBA in the same 4 years.....That might just get you a few job offers...ya think ???

Working for a consulting firm doesn't mean that you're a consultant. They have a structure like any other business, they need recruiters and office workers and people to do the books.

It's hard for me to take someone seriously that doesn't even consider how businesses operate but will make flippant remarks about them.

Culheath 3.6

Ok, let’s use the proper terms: snake oil salesman, con artist, dispenser of BS, manipulator of the ignorant, deceiver, etc.

Now, doesn't community organizer sound a bit better than these more accurate terms for what he did?

So, Mittens pays 7million to the Mormon church...more than he pays in income taxes--which is a charity and a write off for him and a "blessing" for the church. Kind of makes you wonder who owns Mitt....His business or his church? Off shore accounts and "holdings" not accounted for? Not a sign of integrity. I wonder if he has any concept of a secular govt.? Who has his loyalty? We know who has Gingrich's loyalty--Callista. No candidate here to speak of. Just more rich getting richer at our expense.

What a bunch of envious folks we have here !

How many on this site have had even a nickel taken away from them by Mitt Romney ??? Maybe he needs to go on TV and apologize to the whiners among us for being intelligent, business-savvy, and successful. What a crying shame !

He pays $3 million per year in income taxes. I say 'thanks for your help to the nation, Mr. Romney' and hope his business gets even more profitable.

Yeah. THAT'S it. It must be envy.

When all else fails, commit yet another conservative brain flatulence and that'll put 'em in their place.

I guess Warren Buffet must be envious of Romney too, huh?

See, on the one hand, you folks on the right declare that Obama is just like Romney because he's wealthy.

On the other hand, you folks claim that those who say Romney and the other 1%'s should pay higher taxes if they were able to do better because of this country are just jealous.

You can't have it both ways. Either those on the left, who are pushing for higher taxes for billionaires and corporations (even the wealthy ones, like Obama and Buffet) are jealous of Romney, or they're NOTHING like him.

Choose.

Have a nice day.

By the way, Obama was a community organizer.

Romney was a community DISorganizer.

I would never say that "Obama is just like Romney because he's wealthy".

Mr. Romney made a huge success of himself by being skilled at his business and wise with his investments. He is an American success story.

Mr. Obama used his celebrity to sell his books, which made him wealthy. Without that 'celebrity' status, how many books would he have sold ??? And yes...he is successful too, as a politician.

They are quite unlike each other.

Kevin - Step away from whatever you are sniffing. It's not a crime to make $$$ on investments. 15% tax rate is legal. Neither have any thing to do with medical care, foreclosed homes, or any of your other nonsense. Unless he invested in Fannie and Freddie. And I would LOVE to see them as part of his assets.

Read more on this. Romney DID invest in Fannie and Freddie. Did he forget to mention that in his attacks?

His 15% tax rate is legal - therein lies the problem. That has got to change.

The 15 percent rate on longterm investments wasn't voted in, in the last three years, it was voted in during the Republican dominated congress under Bush. It used to be 20 percent and before that it was determined by your tax bracket. If you were in the 35 percent taxable bracket your long term capital income was taxed at that same rate. Under Bush the rich weren't getting rich fast enough. The fact that it is legal does not make it fair. How would you like it if the price of a loaf of bread was one dollar, but if you made 15K a year it rose up to $1.50 per loaf, same bread same loaf. Price increased with every increase in your income. Now go to your boss and say I don't want you to pay me this year, defer my income until next year and lets call it long term capital gains. It won't make a difference until your income tax on your earnings reaches 15 percent but if you are in the 35 percent bracket it makes a big difference in what you pay in taxes. Why do you thing those big CEO's want stock options instead of pay. The company issuing the options sets the value of the options at what ever price they want to. The CEO holds the options for a year and sells them at the current price of the stock Lets say that he has received 10K options and the company says they were valued at $10.00 per option. The CEO sells them at $50.00 per share so his paper profit is only $400,000.00 taxed at 15 percent or $60.000.00. If they had paid him the $500,000.00 he would have been taxed at the 35 percent rate or $175,000.00 in taxes. Legal but not fair.

Very well said N.C. Thornton...Very Well Said!

I don't really care how much ANYBODY makes. What I don't understand is why money made on long term capital gains is any different than the money I made working last week (besides the obvious)...

It needs to be taxed the same...money made is money made...pay the taxes!

N.C. Thornton - I agree with everything you said & voted it up. I just wanted to be sure we clearly remember the circumstances in which the cut was made - going from 20 to 15%...

Remember those checks we received from the government in the early 2000's? It was to fight back recession. People stopped spending money, and investors curtailed investing money. Our economy was nearly on life support. Measures were taken to promote economic growth. Measures that affected all Americans from the bottom - up.

Please tell me if I am wrong (because I could be), but I don't recall the fight over tax increases for the "top 1%" as including an increase in the capital gains taxes? It makes sense to me to take it back to a higher level, but what do I know...

it was already taxed when it was earned.....and then taxed again as investment return. How many time do you want to tax this money? Until its gone?

@Kevin, but you're okay with the government stealing money right out of our pockets that they didn't earn? Then wasting it on what ever they want

I'm surprised you don't care. For me personally, it would take me at a 15% tax rate until the year 3000 to make 42 million dollars. Is what a single man did in two years really worth what 494 of me can do in two years? 494 people of my skill is enough employees to run a modest-sized factory and produce wealth.

Of course I don't advocate for government intervention. I think we just need to shame that kind of absurdity and blame it for the stagnating economy.

Kevin you are unreal ---- Obama is truly the President for the malcontents. Romney made his money by investing wisely --- he paid the normal tax rate on the money he earned.

Then he pays an additional 15% on any interest that he makes on that money ...what more do you want from the guy?? He paid 6.2Million in taxes in the last two years? I call that paying his fair share.

I cant believe this President has made it OK for malcontents like you to hate people who are successful and smart (Anger and petty jealousy are now valid points of view --- thanks barry -- keep turning the american people against one another ---classic statist technique).

Foreclosed home? No health insurance? --- lets see this is America and you have the righ of self determination and personal responsibility --- sounds like some people out there made some really bad decisions.

---- I understand some people lost their job, in this horrific economy through no fault of their own and I feel for them --- but it sounds like most people just made bad decisions, in their life and now they want someone to blame --- and this president makes it OK to do just that....

--- I cant wait until Obama loses in 2012, so all the creepy jealous miscreants(OWS) can go back to hiding under their rocks, or wherever they came from, so this country can move forward and propser again, without people having to apologize for being successful ---

gen,

One reason is that in most cases invested money has already been taxed as ordinary income. In other words if you have earned 1 million dollars and were taxed at 39% Federal, 6% state (if your lucky) and 4% additional if you happen to live in NYC the the remaining $510,000 is yours to invest. Now you have to take your living expenses out of this remainder so lets say you have 100K to invest and for example purpose it generates capital gains(profits) on stock, bond, etc sales of 10% of the 100K. You then pay an additional $1500 on the capital gains. Doesn't look like much until you go back to the start and realize the seed money (probably excess or marginally taxed at the highest rates) was taxed at the 49% rate. Now you see the 100K was originally really $196,007 but 49% went to taxes. Now I know I am asking a lot of a liberal to grasp this math but answer this. Is this enough to satisfy even the deepest "red" hued lefty? Or is there any amount that is "enough" for the left. The libs should pray every day for the well being of the rich because they not the "little people" are the ones that make your socialist state possible. By the way i am certainly not among the 1% but I have done OK not through affirmative action but through hard work and making some sound decisions about investing. By living within my means, putting aside instant gratification on material things. I started with zero but like many people far richer than I was dilligent and perservered.

"it was already taxed when it was earned.....and then taxed again as investment return."

Wrong - you're confusing the basis (taxed once) with that of the new cap gains (also taxed once).

Accounting/business ain't your thing man....this is basic.

The issue isn't whether a person is a 1%er or whether a person makes more than others. The focus should be wealthy are exploiting their political connections to build a tax structure that exclusively focuses on protecting their own wealth at the expense of balanced budget and forces those who are less fortunate to make up our budgetary shortfall. The assumption that those who make their money through investments should benefit more than those earning money through direct labour is ludricous. In fact, those earning money through investment income need do nothing more than let it to roll over, while those earning income are charged to pay more than 100% more, and are required to work their a** off every day to earn it.

The real issue with Mitt is that his proposed policy decisions are structured to give even more protection and benefits to the 1% as if this serves the best interest of our county, and whether the status quo tax structure is sustainable. Such a policy suggests that only the middle class and those needing government assistance should suffer, while somehow the rich should not.

Romney DID earn it.

Romney DOES deserve to earn what he can.

Anything less is an un-American point of view.

Romney is a proven success that can point this entire country to a successful path.
I would NOT want a Presient who didn't know how to suceed in office.

I have no respect for those who are jealous and envious of the success of others. Such people are poison.

ROFL, guys, I think Kevin was being facetious! At least, I hope he was. Because if he wasn't, he seriously needs some help!

The country will be better off with Romney than Gingrich in my opinion, however I am not sure at this point either of them can beat Obama, although Romney has a far better chance.

As long as he legally paid the taxes that he owed, I am not going to hold against him the tax laws that made it so low. I certainly am not going to pay anymore than I have to, neither would anyone else if they were to be honest.

However, Romney has a real problem connecting with voters, and that will be something he has to learn to do. He may be a blue blood, but he could really use lessons on how to stop acting like one.

Pragmatic,

Is what a single man did in two years really worth what 494 of me can do in two years?

Short answer Yes. That is why he made that much. Maybe your contributions are not worth as much in the mind of those that pay than they are in your own mind.

Nate,

From my perspective, I am paid as much as I ought to be. I have a problem believing that any single person is is capable of doing the level of work that I do 988 times in a single year. That a single individual is 988 times as "talented."

Talent has nothing to do with it either. Leo Apotheker is my favorite example. He served as CEO for HP. In 8 months, he tanked the stock by 40% and completely changed the direction of the business in a way that investors wanted his head. He was forced out. He was given 13 million dollars for leaving, including 3 million dollars as a "performance bonus". I can only assume he did a song and dance for a performance. Or maybe a dramatic reading.

I, as a self-described no-talent idiot at running a billion dollar business, could not have run the company worse. And I would have gladly screwed up as badly for a tenth of the price!

Whew! What a relief! So if a customer pays me in dollars left over from their paycheck which is taxed then I don't need to pay tax on the money I earned because John Smith already did! What great logic! Or what a crock! Pay your freaking taxes and stop making lame excuses. The rest of us do, why shouldn't you?

Kevin....

So...Mr. Romney's money is actually my money too ??? Old Mitt stole it from me when I wasn't looking ???

Wow....that's pretty slick. And maybe anyone slick enough to steal a quarter billion dollars from we victims in the middle class, without any of us suspecting a thing. well...maybe a guy that talented should be president. Who knows...maybe he can steal all the money from the Chinese middle class too !

"Heinous" dude...truly heinous !

Scalibini- " his money is re-invested and go back to the economy. it's a good thing there are still wealthy people paying taxes."

One question then Scalibrini, if Romney's taxes along with the other 1%'s taxes goes into the economy and thats good as you state, why is the economy still sucking air going on 4 years?! I know you are referring to that fairy tale about the wealthy being the job creators through their investments. REALLY?! THEN WHERE ARE THE JOBS?! The Bush tax cuts the Repugs want to make permanent have been in effect for 10 years now more than ample time for it to take effect if it were true and not a lie. Apparently he and the other wealthy leaches are not paying enough in taxes-Romney has admitted he pays a 15% tax rate- if they did we'd have full employment as the corporations, they own or own stock in, would be reinvesting capital in expansion and create jobs.

If America's largest banks and non-financial companies would just loosen their death-grip on a chunk of the $3.6 trillion in cash they're hoarding and move it into productive investments instead, the report estimates that about 19 million jobs would be created in the next three years, lowering the unemployment rate to under 5 percent."There is no reason that the U.S. needs to remain stuck in a long-term unemployment crisis," Robert Pollin, lead author of the report and co-director of the Political Economy Research Institute, said in a statement accompanying the report's release Tuesday.-Dan Froomkin, Huffington Post, Jan. 24th, 2012.

So they, meaning Romney and the super-rich, are actually the "freeloaders" since they are getting bigger tax cuts and pay taxes (if any) that are at half the rate the rest of us pay.

And by the way, re: "class warfare", the super rich have been waging class warfare against the rest of us for years, its just that now it is so obvious that people are finally beginning to wake up and see it.

You realize of course the media is spinning a fairy tale, right? Nobody pays an actual 35% rate on their taxes. It's not mathmatically possible and to get anywhere close you've got to be nearly in the 1% yourself. So the whole media spotlight is either ignorant or disingenous. All you people that think you pay 35% of your income in federal taxes, go ask your tax prep guy (I'm sure you're not doing yourself) what your actual tax rate is. I'll bet is somewhere less than 20% and most of you I'll bet it's less than the Mitt's 13.9%. I'll guarantee you that his Marginal tax rate is the same on Earned Income that the best of you have.

Media is trying to compare Apples to Squash here. They couldn't even find a decent orange.

Mitt Romney has been smart enough and fortunate enough to take advantage of the system we call capitalism in this country. Good for him. He also was fortunate enough to come from a wealthy family. Lucky him. He pays taxes according to the rate that we have set up and that some in this government and many of us would like to see changed. He has followed the rules. His problem is that he cannot relate to the average American, and his vision is too colored by business. His other problem is that I never know what he really stands for except for himself. Therefore, I don't know who he would be as President. That kind of a person is not qualified to run for office. Although big business is what this government has become thanks to the SCOTUS, it is not what government was ever intended to be. We don't need anymore people whose sole background is business representing this country. As for donating to the church, lots of people do that, although with the Mormon church it is a required "donation." After all is said and done, NONE of the Republican candidates are qualified for the office of Presidency.

DM7741: Romney made all his money himself. He didn't inherit it. In fact, his father's money was also made himself. I frankly don't have a problem with his wealth and really cannot understand why others do.

DM7741

NONE of the Republican candidates are qualified for the office of Presidency.

And neither is the unqualified and inexperienced one currently in office. Writing blank checks American citizens can't cash or pay back while thumbing his nose at our Constitution. No pat on the back from this president, instead citizens of the USA get a black eye and a broken arm. Time to kick this president to the curb.

I don't have a problem with his wealth. I have a problem with how he made it, shelters it and pays a lower percentage of taxes (on the rest that isn't sheltered) than the middle class have to pay.

And he is not the only one I have this "problem" with.

When Romney's father passed away, Romney donated everything that he received as an inheritance. Every penny that he has, he earned. He worked hard to educate himself. You do not finish in the top 5% of Harvard Business School as a gift. He advanced in his career by working hard and achieving results. By the way, tithing in the Mormon church is not "required". It is just like any other christian faith. Some do and some do not.

semperfiman, because there are so many people drawing a free chit off of the government at this moment. Come to Detroit and walk through my neighborhood, bring a side arm though! You will see what people are talking about.

What's the problem? The problem is that he had millions parked in offshore accounts in the Cayman Islands until 2010. He's part of the problem, not part of the solution.

All you people that think you pay 35% of your income in federal taxes, go ask your tax prep guy (I'm sure you're not doing yourself) what your actual tax rate is....

Seriously? You live in some out of touch place where most people use a a tax prep guy and don't do their own taxes? And you expect us then to swallow the rest of your hype? Seriously?

@realist502574

DM7741: Romney made all his money himself. He didn't inherit it. In fact, his father's money was also made himself. I frankly don't have a problem with his wealth and really cannot understand why others do.

So you really don't mind that he made his money largely at others expense? I can tell you there are almost a thousand people here in the Kansas City area who couldn't understand why they lost their jobs because of Bain. It's not not that Romney has money, it's how he makes it that's important. Making money and becoming wealthy at the expense of others is akin to blood money and I hope karma re-pays Romney for his ill gotten wealth.

Most Americans pay less than him in Taxes after deducting the dependents, kids, house, and all other ride offs. Or they have been laid off at some point...but still get to deduct all the above on essential money lowering their tax rate to his rate or lower.

I will be honest and say I did not go through the details of the article, but looked at the % BS.

I am not a 1%...yet...and never had this problem. But I took a good look...if you donate it all away and even pay 25-30% on the rest of the income in AMT you can still get pretty close to 10%.

If you have ever gotten nailed by AMT you will see that for people who even do make any money beyond ordinary income, there is no escape from paying the tax man. You will never get away with less than 25% in taxes, even more if you live in New York State.

The trouble is people like Warren Buffett who twist the truth about how they pay so little, claiming his receptionist pays more in taxes. Warren gets away with it not because of the income tax or capital gains tax or anything in the IRS PERSONAL INCOME structure, but by the way Berkshire Hathaway is structured in that he can sell assets for money and Berkshire can continuously declare the assets he sold as "a capital loss". If they raise personal taxes, especially capital gains and estate taxes, Berkshire will make a lot of money selling TAX FREE insurance policies to people who own assets so they can pay off the federal government in the end. This way the feds get paid and Berkshire makes a killing. Don't take my word for it. Check it out for yourself.

culheath - I believe "most" people use Jackson-Hewitt, Liberty Tax Service, H&R Block, or some other tax prep service...

Or software. Their lives are uncomplicated enough that they can just input numbers into the computer software and it's done for them.

Wow, taxes, they are such a difficult thing to grasp. The Average tax rate for all Americans is 12.24%. The average middle class wage earner (those making between $33,000 and $67,000, this represents the 51 - 75% of Americans) is 6.75%. The average lower class wage earner (those making less than $33,000 and the bottom 50% of Americans) is 2.59%. Someone, anyone, please explain to me how Romney's 15% is not his fair share when the bottom 75% of Americans pay less than half that percent?

Taking it one step further, at an effective tax rate of 2.59%, someone making $33,000 annually will pay $855 in federal taxes. If Romney pays an annual $3 million in taxes, he is paying the same amount as 3500 people, combined, who make $33,000. Still think he isn't paying his "fair share"?

So you really don't mind that he made his money largely at others expense?

Don't you make your money at someone else's expense. In fact we ALL do unless you're printing it in our basement. If you're a teacher you're making money at the expense of the property tax payer. If you own a restaurant, you're making your money off the backs of hard working people who come to eat at your place because they don't want to cook. Do any of these people take anything away from you unfairly?

@Janice22,

No, no I don't. I don't have anybody working for me, I have nobody working for me that I can arbitrarily layoff to bolster profits. Your question has no basis in reality. I work for a company who directly profits and benefits from my labors. I solely own my own business in which I provide 100% of the labor.

Natedom- Very well stated. Thank you.

Janice22- Also, well stated. It is nice to see some contributors actually have their

head out of the sand.

I agree. Excellent, Natedom.

natedom,

He ain't working for anything taxed at a 15% rate.

@Pragmatic - where did I say anything about him working? I said someone who makes $33,000 will pay xxx amount and it will take xxx number of people at that amount to pay the same amount in taxes as Mitt.

Those making $33000 annually fall in the 28% tax bracket, but they aren't paying anywhere near 28% in federal taxes, because of deductions and credits. This is the same for Mitt.

@rob peters and Glen - Thank you!

Janice...

Absolutely correct....everybody makes money off 'the backs' of other people and has other people making money off of them. It's called an economy.

I go with my wife to a reastaurant every single weekend. Neither the waitress or waiter who serves my meal nor the restaurant owner could care less whether I have a thousand dollars in my pocket or had to pull every quarter from underneith the couch cushions to pay the bill. In fact, I'd guess that a waiter or waitress would be hoping all of their customers had a good paycheck that translates into a fat tip.

The way people in his country are beginning to think...I wouldn't be surprised if at some future date, customers might start demanding that items on the restaurant menu be priced according to the income levels of those ordering and eating the meals. After all, that guy in the corner with the thousand dollars in his pocket...well, he's just not paying a fair share for that medium-rare New York Strip, as opposed to that guy over there who pulled quarters from his couch cushions.

Something is not right with the way people are thinking these days.

Tony - you may be onto something..... but my hunch is that the guy pulling quarters from his couch could soon be complaining that the guy in the corner with the thousand dollars isn't paying for his meal.....

Or at least isn't paying the "fair share" of the cost of someone else's dinner !

The deadbeats, drug users, lazy fat asses, criminals and con artist, the malcontents, the nonproductive

What of them? What fair share are they paying. One individual pays $6 million and it is not enough while 47% complain about injustice. My advice would be instill in your children the values that you missed growing up. It's a simple formula, study hard in school, do not grow up too fast, have a goal towards adulthood and do not succumb to peer pressure. Teenagers are impatient for life but 8 years of discipline leads to a lifetime of security.

And I'm not putting down the malcontents, more power to them if they believe in their principles. But malcontents are not usually successful like engineers.

I'll bet you ten thousand dollars he is worried about showing tax records when he worked for Bain. He is a terrible politician. How many mistakes can you make when you have been running for office so long?

Show me any politician who's not well off. THEY ALL LOOK DOWN ON US! Wake up! The only time they're not looking down on us is when they're either looking to get re-elected or their defecating on us with their corruption.

Readon...

Please explain to me exactly when Mr. Romney "accused the working class as the source of all the problems"??? I must have missed him saying that.

Go ahead and enjoy voting for Barack Obama...he's done such a great job solving your problems over the past three years, hasn't he ???

Begs the question what else does the Mormon church spend their money on. I'd like to see that.

Jeff - get over it. Churches are NOT chariity. Churches are big business that get a FREE ride.

You guys are all full of it. I can tell you what the church spends it's money on. Church buildings, temples, one of the biggest humanitarian programs of ANY church in the country, welfare for members who need it, etc. If you're implying that the church leaders are making a boatload of money, don't make me laugh. Our clergy aren't paid. ANY church is going to have operating expenses, and those expenses need to be paid for somehow. They can't run off of prayers and good wishes, no matter how much they might want to. Back in the old days, you could just donate a piece of land, everyone got together to help build the building, and that was that. No property taxes, no electric bills, etc. It's not that way anymore. You can't expect any entity, be it a church, a business, a non-profit, whatever, to run without operating expenses.

And OHC, if you think churches aren't charitable, take a look at who is almost always FIRST on the ground to help in any disaster. Where do you think most shelters are opened? In CHURCHES. The LDS church, AKA Mormons, sent over hundreds to thousands of tons of supplies in the disasters in Haiti, Indonesia, etc. They do great charitable works. Just because you've been soured by the megachurch pastors with their limos doesn't mean all churches are that way.

The Mormon Church is not the "anti-gay right lobby." The funds are used to employ people in the headquarters and some people throughout the world, but NONE of the leaders are paid. They receive funds to cover expenses. Otherwise the funds are used as welfare, and those who receive it usually have to do something to earn it, generally no handouts. They also give a lot of aid to victims of natural disaster all over the world and to those in less blessed countries where the governments don't take care of their citizens. This doesn't count the hours that the members spend in service to each other and those in their communities. You think the government would do a better job managing that money? The government would totally waste it.

If he gives all that money to LDS, then i say he should make more money so he can give them more. Nothing wrong with supporting what you believe.

$374,000 to Mitt Romey in the context of his wealth is about $75 to everybody else. I would say $75 isn't much money. $374,000 is enough to finish my mortgage and then some.

you're right! Everyone should have to earn everything they have. No more investments, boys. Drain your 401(k) and give all money above what you put in to the Federal government. You didn't earn it. No excuses now.

You don't earn anything by investing? You're kidding right? You EARN that by RISKING the money you do earn to give to a company so that they can continue to function, grow and innovate. You know...the things that are supposed to spur jobs and advancements. And to begrudge someone because they've attained a level of wealth that allows them to live off of the benefits of risking their money is nothing more than pure and blatant jealousy.

Correction: Capital gains tax limits should only apply to persons that will rely on the sale of a home or investments to survive. Even then, the cap shuld be gradiated. $40,000,000.00? That is the average earned wage of 40 Americans over their lifetime!!!, all of whom pay more than 14% when including SSI and Medicare (if they are married with kids, feel sorry for the single folks).

Obviously you have no idea how federal income tax liabilities are calculated. Someone who makes 80K in this country could very easily walk away with 0 federal income tax liability. Most likely they walk away with an extremely small tax liability. Here's a simple scenario. Couple filing jointly with Taxable income of 80K. Standard Deduction is 11600. Two kids = 4 exemptions or 14800. So the income you're taxed on is now 53,600. That would mean your tax liability is $7194 (8.99% of 80K) but wait, because of those Bush era tax cuts you all hate so much, those two kids (if they're under 17) mean you can chop off another 2000 of your tax liability and pay just $5194 or 6.49% of your taxable income and that's before you go looking for any other possible tax credits or try and itemize deductions (say if you have a mortgage) Go cry me a river about how little income tax the "wealthy" pay, but first learn a little about how little you pay.

oh great to pay taxes while you work everyday to feed those new workers. saving to make the bills and scared if i can afford insurance or the electric bill. than at 65 or 75 if i've worked hard enough to pay my property taxes, so they won't sell my house at the court house! the golden years for a peasant is part time work at walmart or maybe a door greeter. this is the true life of most peasants. get old take your money till your dead! than the fight on how to get your hands on the scraps left behind. of course we need a rich and powerful king to keep us peasants in line! besides how could a peasant become king? their are no swords to pull from a rock! our system is broke in so many ways and voting for rich kings to help us get bread is a stupid venture that will never really pay!

Adam,

The idea is that the average American family will take that $7,000 they aren't paying in taxes and stimulate the economy. Romney is past the point of needing money. His basic needs are met and surpassed several million times. Even luxury item needs are met and surpassed several million times. Heck if I made $42 million I'd retire. I'd be able to live as I do now for almost a thousand years on $42 million dollars without ever investing it.

@Pragmatic: Ok, if you want to play that game how about I come and look at your lifestyle and see what you have that is "past the point of needing money" and determine how you can live your future?

That right... it would be against your basic freedoms. So what gives you the right to think you can pick and choose for others? You don't. Now get off your high horse and join us in the human race.

east coast,

I'm not running for president and trying to be a lovable everyman. When you run for public office, you invite criticism of everything you do and have ever done. Running for office is a choice. Every person who runs for office knows their lives will be put under the microscope. Those who don't want that kind of attention don't run.

I also have a very simple metric for determining when a person has more money than they need. If a person's annual earnings are more money than the average citizen is capable of earning in a lifetime, they have more money than they need. They only make houses so large, cars are only so expensive, and meals only cost so much, even on the luxurious end of things. When you have that much money, all your needs are met. That's a fact.

Give Romney $7,000 and he'll probably invest it. Heck, give him $7,000,000 and he'll probably invest it. He doesn't need it. Give me $7,000 and I'll buy a new furnace to replace the 30 year old one I have that's on its last legs. Which one do you think stimulates the economy more? Consumerism has driven the American economy since WWII. That was my original point. Give a thousand people $7,000 and they'll spend it as soon as they get it and stimulate the local economy. Give a man like Mitt Romney $7,000,000 and he'll invest it. The stimulus to the economy is much less if it is just going to sit in a treasury bond or whatever.

The difference is that he earned it. Sorry if that fact burns you. It certainly burns your entire argument. He earned it and it's not yours to tell him what to do with it and it's not yours to tell him if you think it's too much for one person to have. Now get over it.

Miscreint - I think you need to learn more about Mitt Romney's past before commenting. He did not get his start because of his dad's riches (other than getting a good education) and, yes, he did work his way up from the bottom. He got a position after college based on his academic excellence (degrees in law and business). He made his own money, he did not get it from his father. What he did get from his father is what most people in this country want for their children - a good education and the opportunity to succeed.

Steven Mitt paid $6.2 million how much did you pay? Not one of you paid as much tax as Mitt Romney.

Come on liberty&freedom, don't be stupid. It's about the percentage of your income paid in taxes not the total amount paid in taxes. Mitt can pay that much because he makes a lot more. How is Mitt contributing to the economy with that low tax rate? Is he creating jobs? Yeah, didn't think so.

It's the consumers and their demand for products that create jobs. Not people like Mitt.

RealisticRyan how much did you pay? More than 6.2 million? If not you should mind your own business and get to work and quit worrying about Mitt Romney$$$$$$$...''don't be stupid.''

I paid more than double the percentage of what Romney paid in taxes. And I have to actually go to work everyday unlike your boy. I guess not being stupid is impossible for someone like you.

I'm not concerned about how much money Romney has or how much he pays in taxes. However I do have serious doubts about his ability to represent the vast majority of Americans in this country when he doesn't have the slightest clue about the issues the people of this country have to face thanks to the Banks and GOP.

You didn't answer the question did you pay as much as Romney? It is his money not the Govt's money,RealisticRyan did you pay 6.2 million like Romney? ANSWER please'' don't be stupid.'' I would hope you would support a ''fair tax'' or national sales tax? How about Ron Paul's plan to eliminate income tax?Or would you rather just keep WHINING about Mitt Romney only paying six million two hundred thousand dollars?

I just wonder what he's investing in that gives him ~45 million profit on 190-250 million. That's an excellent rate of return anyone would envy today.

It sounds from his posts that Liberty & Freedom is a 15 year old, 10th grade student at Tuscaloosa High. Ignore him.

I do not care that he is wealthy. Telling the voters $374,000.00 was not much, when for most of us that is life changing income yearly income. He is out of touch.

bigfinn-4815102 whatever you say? Grow up and learn to discuss substantive issues instead of just making smart azzzzz remarks. got it? Enough said now stop trolling bigfinn-4815102 and try to make a contribution.

Looks like Liberty&freedom is a troll. Wasting our time to reply. There may be some out there who can't figure out taxes are paid on a percentage basis, but, this isn't the forum for tax education or basic civics lessons.

I think that Mitt paid his fair share as the law deems.... I dont blame him a bit for paying his fair share just as the law deems...I would do the same thing in his shoes! However that being said...if you can't see the flaws that exsist in that tax code then you are very very lost! I think all this aggression and complaining should be re directed to more useful topics such as fixing the tax code that allows the uber rich to pay less in taxes for doing absolutly nothing, all the while they are taxing the common man at a much higher rate and making it hard for him to feed his family. Just Saying!

RealisticRyan

Come on liberty&freedom, don't be stupid. It's about the percentage of your income paid in taxes not the total amount paid in taxes. Mitt can pay that much because he makes a lot more. How is Mitt contributing to the economy with that low tax rate? Is he creating jobs? Yeah, didn't think so.

Romney paid the same percentage or whatever you call it as Buffet, Soros, Oprah and many other richer liberals than Romney who support Obama. Why not rant against them. O I'm sorry I forgot they are on your side. O by the way, OBAMA made 25K jobs for China. Thanks Mr. President

Mitt Romney has paid what the law required and at 6.2 million dollars I am absolutely sure it is way more than all the HATERS combined posting critiqiues of this American success story {MITT ROMNEY 2012}will pay in their lifetime........... 47% of Americans pay no income tax at all, ........ ''among Obama voters 91% pay zero tax and 73% of Obama supporters are directly on government assistance'':liberty and freedom foundation........... So for them Mitt Romney Thank you so much and keep it coming!!

@RealisticRyan, if you paid more than double the percent, in federal taxes because that is what is being discussed here, just federal taxes, that Romney paid you need a new tax guy. If you make $175,000 and claim absolutely no deductions or credits, you would pay $42647 in federal taxes, which is an effective tax rate of 24.4%. If you made $380,000 and again, claimed absolutely no credits or deductions, you would pay $110,314 in federal taxes for an effective tax rate of 29.1%, which still isn't double the percentage Romney paid.

RealisticRyan,

I think the returns he recieved probably created a few jobs that is how investment works. Money into business> employ people to create work product>charge consumers for work product> pay employees> return capital to investors.

W-2719163; #14.13

It's your friend Dubya and his GOP cronies that deserve far more credit for sending jobs to China.

@ Mike al Delray who wrote:

First of all, you're not my pal...

I know.. Don't flatter yourself. It's just figurative speech.

Stop being so negative....

I will be very positive when our President gets re-elected.

Thanks for the advice!

Welcome to Republicans! And welcome to Congress and the Senate.

Regarding Mitt's donations to his church, the mormon church follows the law of tithing as outlined in the Bible. That means he pays 1/10th of his income to the church. How can you fault a guy for his loyalty to his beliefs, which in the end only do good? The article says his donations to the church made up 15% of his income. If I do the math right that leaves 2.3 Million to other charities. Without going through all the pages of his returns, 2.3 Million is pretty generous. How many people do you know pay that much in charities, which as you put it need the help.

Justin,

For most people here, it's not a matter of his wealth. He's a wealthy man, great. I'm happy for him and his family. What bothers people is the fairness of a tax structure which allows a man of great wealth to be taxed at a lower rate than a working-class person of far more modest means. Warren Buffet, the 2nd wealthiest guy in America has come out and said the exact same thing. He pays a lower effective tax rate than his secretary. The question people are asking is, is this fair? I would like to hear what Mitt says about this. If you think this type of tax structure is fair you vote Republican, if you don't think it's fair you vote for the Democrats.

grinandbearit

That is a total black is white spin. It is the Republicans who more than once proposed a flat tax which the Dems want no part of. If you like the tax code that gives refunds to people who don't pay any taxes you vote Democrat. If you want fair taxes but just do what the code says is legal then you vote Republican because the tax code has been manipulated for decades so the middle class pay more (by removing deductions) and the rich and poor pay less. That suits the liberal rich and the gimmie crowd who always vote Democrat.

What part of he paid 6.2 Millions dollars in taxes did you nut cases miss? How much did you pay?

Your and Idiot Steven.

Sorry.... but that is just priceless.

Satong Green

He paid 15% or 6.2 Million. How much did GE, Obama's buddies pay? ZERO Ows needs to go after the tax code but they have no one smart enough to do that.

GE? Obama's buddies? There are lawyers, ex military...all kinds of OWS folks. How is GE one of Obama's buddies? They haven't been paying taxes since before he was president. I would love to see you come and talk to some of the OWS people. Shakingmyhead...perfect name. You are confused.

How is GE one of Obama's buddies?

The CEO is on Obamas jobs council. They have done a great job of creating jobs in China.

Shan dril

He probably could do it a lot better than a Community Organizer who somehow also made millions while claiming to care about the poor. He has done nothing but harm to the average person. You see a man who makes millions understands a lot more about the economy than a man who takes money from one and gives it to others and doesn't earn anything or make the ones he gives it to earn it.

You all just can't get past that "community organizer", "helping other people" thing, can you...

You are rooting for a RICH SNAKE ! But so is Newt.