You find it surprising that the majority Right wing SCOTUS goes along hand in hand with the right wing repub majority in Texas? At least Perry is headed back to Texas.

Truthfully, being from Texas, I am just dismayed about the whole thing. We saw almost all of our recent population gains from minorities, so I can see the logic when they added new districts that will be heavily minority controlled. On the other hand, the standard rule of law in these cases is that current legislatures get the right to draw up the districts, and they typically can do them however they want. In Texas, we get districts that span halfway across the state just so they can keep the chances of republican victory high. They will typically take Austin, and try and divide it in such a way that the fairly liberal city is split into so many ways that we get almost no liberal representation from that area.

I wish we could find a much better way to do this, but for the life of me, I don't know what it would be. I suspect it would be to give all the variables into a computer, and have it spit out more effective boundaries. I would hope it would keep cities as whole as possible, and it wouldn't try to split up those areas just to squeeze out another seat in the house.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner!

What's more discouraging living in Texas is that there are so many Hispanics and blacks everywhere, and yet they wont get out and vote for their rights. They let the GOP get voted in year after year, and the longer they're in power, the more initiatives they keep trying to pass that remove ability to vote from minorities.

Again the best democracy Koch and republicans could buy. Love my state Texas!!

oldman, it is not playing any cards, it is the truth.

Dilute the minority vote?

Political boundaries should not segregate races nether should they be drawn with the intention of making sure groups of people are underrepresented by their Representatives in the legislatures. Assuming you are a conservative if political lines were redrawn to put you in district that had more liberals than yes your vote would become diluted. Now imagine doing that based on race. The Texas court was wrong to redraw the map before the Justice Department did anything, the Supremes were right in that the Texas court exceeded it's authority.

As it is the map is gerrymandered to the nth degree. How do you think some of the worst liberals keep getting elected. Some of them look like cats claws. The legislature map was to equal things out. the liberals couldn't stand that so Democrat judges to the rescue. Finally it has gone to the Sc to fix. Democrat judges have been legislating from the bench for years.

working poor...I realize you only read left wing sites but if you looked at other news reports you would see that it was unanimously set aside. That means the left on the court also agreed. Moron.

You leftists, as usual, are wrong. No one has been bought off, no laws are being violated. The constitution PLAINLY gives states the duty to conduct elections. This applies to districts and how they are drawn. It is the Voting Rights Act which has the unconstitutional provision in it that only some states--9 total and all southern (despite there being overt racism in the north too)--must get preclearance from the Justice Department that their new maps are okay to use. Texas' maps are in that process. Justice is taking too long. Districts must be drawn.

So opportunistic liberals thought they could, by lawsuit, force Texas into drawing the districts how they wanted, and not how the legisalture wanted. The USSC decided to put the judicial arrogance of the three judge panel down a notch or two, and instructed them to simply follow the law. And your reponses here? Proof that you don't know the law at all, as well as proof that you don't understand politics at all.

We should all want the least gerrymandered districts as possible. Texas does not provide this. But so long as either side defends their brand of gerrymandering while criticizing the opposition it is unlikely we can ever find a way to get more competitive districts drawn. Worse, so long as we continue to be saddled with politically/economically/legally ignorant voters, as some of the above posts reveal, we will have to repeat this stupid debate again, and again.

Our Supreme Court is a joke. We shouldn't even call it a supreme court any more-- it's an insult to justice.

It's a beautiful picture of the Supreme Court at the top of this article, to begin the article. Why is the flag outside it flying at half-staff? I wonder on what day that picture was taken and who it was at half-staff for. As an Artist (of Personhood), metaphorically, I see it flying at half-staff for the death of Democracy and Justice. (and would use my Free Speech of Personhood to say so now!)

In my state of North Carolina the democrats had control over the legislature and maps for over 100 consecutive years until the 2010 elections. The republicans finally gained control and drew new maps. Now the dems are crying foul saying " No Fair ". Now how could that be ?

everyone screaming racism, minority dilute, should read the decision; the court said, Just because a State drew the boundary's, is no reason to just say it is not permitted( a hold over from the Civil war, and the civil rights laws against all States that was the Confederacy); but the court said, it must be examined to see if it is a overreach or gerrymandering to exclude minority voters.

In my state of Virginia the same, the controlled democrat senate draw the new map at their convenience. For some leftist the Supreme Court is a joke, however, mos of the liberal judges that legislate from the bench, to promote their liberal agenda are a disgrace to our court system.

The Repub majority court is completely bought out. These decisions make no sense under the constitution, but they keep pumping them out because they ultimately support the rich.

Hey Breeze,--You must be a youngster. You have to remember that, because of the "Southern Strategy" of the Republicans, years ago, the right wing Democrats - called Dixiecrats---went over to the Republicans. In fact, these same conservative radicals form the spearhead for that party today. The GOP is no longer the party of Lincoln. It is the party of the former slaveholders. Learn some history. The southern states are now Republican. From the late 1860s to sometime the middle of the 20th century they were ruled by Democrats.

Based on the law, the SC made the right call.

That doesnt negate the blatant gerrymandering by the republicans in texas.

Obviously, they are terrified they cant win on POLICY and PLATFORM alone, they have to spread the liberals out to dilute their power.

THAT ALONE SHOULD TELL US SOMETHING ABOUT HOW FEARFUL THEY ARE.

gregreedan - the partie's switched during the Nixon Election.

google Southern Strategy...and get educated (not you, but anyone who hasnt heard about it).

Seriously folks...why is this so hard for republicans to accept? It's your party, you gotta OWN IT ALL.

Your comments against the SCOTUS are bias. The rule was 9-0 and that include the two Obama appointees.

Democrats is the party of the KKK the party of Sen. Byrd who recruit more than 150 militants never change party. He always is and was Democrat

When republicans draw the maps they draw them so they will beat the democrats. When the democrats draw them they go to their advantage. It's not that either side was doing anything surprising or some phantom boogeyman was "legislating from the bench"

Jessica-1170252, #1.18- EXCELLENT! I wholeheartedly agree with you on your first 2 lines. As for the rest, I personally, just prefer not to get into "conspiracy theories" quite like that, but wanted to send you Kudos on the first 2 lines anyway. No offense intended, Please. (Gave you a vote, too.)

jessica....Dixicrat is a Democrat myth debunked

Richard Nixon was a proponent of Civil Rights; it was a CA colleague who urged Ike to appoint Warren to the Supreme Court; he was a supporter of Brown v. Board, and favored sending troops to integrate Little Rock High). Nixon saw he could develop a "Southern strategy" based on Goldwater's inroads. He did, but Independent Democrat George Wallace carried most of the deep south in 68. By 1972, however, Wallace was shot and paralyzed, and Nixon began to tilt the south to the GOP. The old guard Democrats began to fade away while a new generation of Southern politicians became Republicans. True, Strom Thurmond switched to GOP, but most of the old timers (Fulbright, Gore, Wallace, Byrd etc etc) retired as Dems.

Why did a new generation white Southerners join the GOP? Not because they thought Republicans were racists who would return the South to segregation, but because the GOP was a "local government, small government" party in the old Jeffersonian tradition. Southerners wanted less government and the GOP was their natural home.

Jimmy Carter, a Civil Rights Democrat, briefly returned some states to the Democrat fold, but in 1980, Goldwater's heir, Ronald Reagan, sealed this deal for the GOP. The new "Solid South" was solid GOP.

BUT, and we must stress this: the new southern Republicans were *integrationist* Republicans who accepted the Civil Rights revolution and full integration while retaining their love of Jeffersonian limited government principles

To Red"""

It's not a myth....

You really trust the ethnic information on the census I know that in some areas everybody in the jail census was listed as non-hispanic white because the person filling out the paperwork was too lazy to check the right boxes. In others because of the high concentrations of illegal aliens in detention facilities all those people were counted because the census counts who is there not who is legal to vote. It was taken in winter so all the grandmas and grandpas from up north are a part of the Texas census. They might actually balence out the illegals in some parts of the state.

Jessica-1170252;

What there are like six liberals in the entire state of Texas, I dont think anyone is scared of them.

1 It is stupid to call it the right wing court since it was a unanimous 9-0 decision

2 It was southern democrats that made up the KKK, Robert Byrd was a member.

3 Many democrats did switch to the republican party but the worst of their offenses were when they were democrat

4 Both parties do it, it was actually started by democrats.

5 It is NOT racism, it is trying to get the best voter mix for your party.

I know it's difficult for liberals but try to use a little critical thinking. Would the TX legislature do the exact same thing if the districts were all white? OF COURSE! A vote is a vote. Sorry, it doesn't pass the racist smell test.

It's the same thing with stupid liberals claiming anyone who opposes Obama racist. If it were Gore or Kerry pulling the same crap would we be just as incensed? OF COURSE!

The ultimate stupidity of the loony left is calling us racist if we supported Cain. Now that really takes the cake!

P111"""

I'd maybe try a little more bran in my diet for maybe a little more"critical thinking"...

You are right P111

I have more Indian blood than those white democrast that call us racist, one of them call me redneckvirginia, however redneck is not an offense for me , our parents work hard in the fields , I'm a proud son of the confederacy , General Lee is my General, no shame .

Dobie, that's because unlike the "right" on the SC the "left" actually vote for what they believe is the law and not what is politically popular. You'll see Ginsburg and others actually vote against the "liberal" view when it is not within the law.

In this case Texas has a terrible history of redistricting so that they can keep out the minority vote. All you have to do is to look at the map and ask yourself how the hell could that area be included with this other one. Example: pull up the map of texas districts and note how there are 10 districts split up among an area the size of an inch on the map and yet large swaths of the map are covered by one district. Its partially that the areas are much more highly concentrated with people but its also that these areas are minority heavy and Texas wants to try to split up the city that they're in so that it gets diluted by the surrounding suburbs. Is anyone on here really trying to argue that Texas isn't prevalent with people who are anti-minority? Have they ever gone there????

I'm sorry for saying this, but you leftists are incredibly dumb. The VRA mandated that districts within a state be set up in such a way as to give minorities a real chance at winning office. It was because of this law, you dopes, that minorities were CONCENTRATED within fewer districts--how else would the real chance of electoral success be otherwise possible (see, the law presumes that whites won't elect blacks regardless of the issues, which I hope you morons can see is no longer operative if it ever was anyhow)--and so helped to DECREASE the number of viable democratic party seats.

The law REQUIRES minorities to be clustered together, rather than dispersed fairly among all districts. The net effect of all of this has been a power shift from Democrats to Republicans. And here some of you people are, arguing these districts should be even more racially segregated, having no idea it means even fewer democrats in Congress. Talk about dense.

Well the Obama Administration and the Justice Department are wrong again. At what cost are all of Obama's frivolous lawsuits?

Why have districts at all? I don’t see their usefulness. Just a nice clean map noting the placements of a sufficient number of voting stations located within easy reach of every voter would make better sense. All registered voters receive a ballot with every Republican, Democrat, or Independent running for whatever position. Would seem a solution for including every racial demographic (which shouldn’t have any business in voting in the land of the free) and eliminate the concerns of who is voting for whom? The completed, unrestricted ballots would have equal weight if they were filled out in whatever part of the state.

On the other hand, the standard rule of law in these cases is that current legislatures get the right to draw up the districts, and they typically can do them however they want. In Texas, we get districts that span halfway across the state just so they can keep the chances of republican victory high.

Every state should be mandated to create the most geographically compact districts possible. With computers, that is quite possible and could be done in a very short period of time. States should not have the right to do anything different. States rights is a sham concept that is almost always used to deny rights to one or more groups of citizens.

BUT, and we must stress this: the new southern Republicans were *integrationist* Republicans who accepted the Civil Rights revolution and full integration while retaining their love of Jeffersonian limited government principles

Apparently, no one told that to Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY), who said that he opposes the civil rights legislation.

Same thing occurs in every state with republicans in control of the redistricking My state has some of the wierdest districts and when you look at them you see them being drawn to dilute the votes of those who do not normally vote Republican. how else can they ever win anything.

At what cost are all of Obama's frivolous lawsuits? —Scott-numbers

The merest fraction of part of a percent of what Bush's needless tax cuts and wars cost.

I actually agree with you that there needs to be a mathematical construct rule that prevents the egregious gerrymandering. However, drawing the boundaries as short as possible isn't really an option since the populations don't form themselves into neat squares. You have to have slightly more flexibility than that.

I prefer "the centroid of the district must be located inside the district". This allows you to draw the borders flexibly, but you can't extend the district into some kind of long curved shape because then the centroid lies outside the district.

Dan, this would allow a district in texas to be 1 mile wide and 800 miles long. Bill's plan would be a better starting point. It would give you circles to start with, and then actual humans would have to get involved so that cities and towns would more or less be in one district.

How much of the population growth are actual americans though.

Bill this is perhaps one of the most intelligent posts I've read in a while. Voting districts should be based on population alone. This would clearly be indicative of the population that lives in the area, in regards to those eligible to vote, and providing the opportunity for representation of those who live there. Trying to make things meet a certain balance will do nothing but cause problems as you do in fact end up with people who will never be a part of the politics as they are to far "out in the boonies" for the representative to give them the time of day. This bipartisan politics thing has gotten completely out of control in our nation and something clearly has to be done. I'm sure that someone can develop a computer program that will allow numbers to be input and districts to become output without trying to balance political affiliation or a racial balance. This is clearly causing more problems than it's worth.

Amen Bill....excellent post!

After watching all of the back and forth here in Colorado I would welcome a sensible "math based" district map. In addition to being fair to the electorate as a whole, our legislators could spend more time on the important issues facing our state.

denver bill, post #2- I'm joining SOME OTHERS, ABOVE. KUDOS!!!! Your post is like a fresh, cool and pure drink of Intelligence Water "trickling down" as rescue to the "insanity inflicted and afflicted" population! Thank you.

Excellent Idea Bill. It makes sense, it's clean and simple therefore it will never happen.... sigh.

In my state, NJ, there was a computer redistricting model done by I believe Rutgers University. When the results still favored Democrats, the Republicans cried foul. The GOP then tried to reamplify certain of the data to make it turn out in their favor.

The reality is that Republicans are hot into redistricting as a tool to win the 2012 election even if it means breaking a few laws or playing around with numbers and maps. How desperate do they need to get? More to the point, WHY are they so desperate to get back in the White House in 2012? Another round of tax credits for the rich? Another Financial Meltdown? More unregulated regulations for Big Oil and Big Business?

So let's look at the tally. They won in 2000 by impeaching a president on a morals charge even though their Speaker of the House had Wandering Richard disease. They won again with Supreme Court help in 2004, misshapen chads and Jeb Bush's fraternal help. But yes. We need to let Republicans play games with voting districts so guys like Harley Barbour, can keep those good ole good ole bois in moolah.

K.J.Pierson-

Even if there are non-citizens in the count, Texas still benefits through the increase in Congressional representation. The question is how representation will be apportioned. Given some of the exclusionary past practices in Texas and other states, Federal supervision was mandated in an attempt to assure a less imbalanced and exclusionary approach than had been practice. Those in power will attempt to retain power by retaining control over the redistricting process.

Good point anothermick how many spooky illegals were counted in the census anyway?

The problem I see with this great idea is that it will always "favor" one party so the other will always be against it.

Non-citizens are always counted, because laws affect everyone the children, the old, all races and faiths.

A representative should represent the interests of everyone living in their district and legislate with everyone's interests in mind. Not just the people who voted for them, not just the people who can vote, but everyone. Before women and minorities were given the right to vote they were counted (although some were only counted as 3/5ths).

Well no matter how you draw it the four counties of the RGV will always be a majority hispanic. As will most of Texas south of a line from CC to SA.

Mr.Jones78, #2.11- EXCELLENT! Nice post. Nice description of what the suppose-to-be "oath bound" Fiduciary Duty of one's Representative is suppose to include, to be upheld (actionably practiced and shown to be employed); and to be responsible and accountable to and for the upholding of it (or not). NOT!....now what?

You did not or could not read the article right? If you had you would have realized that the SC rejected a court's effort to draft its own electoral map and directed the court to use the map crafted by the Texas legislature since they are the duly elected officials who have authority to determine the boundaries of congressional districts...the SC then said the court could make corrections to the legislature map but they must use that map as a basis for drafting the districts...rather than getting "busted" as you so wrongly and crudely suggest...the actions of the republicans in the Texas Legislature were affirmed by the SC 9-0

Keep it on topic troll

Actually 4 years ago it was how W sunk us in two unwinnable wars, there was no way to find OBL and unemployment numbers were sinking fast. Lucky for us we did get our favorite socialist (what? didn't we redistribute wealth yet?) to reverse all those trends. But at Midwest said, let's just stay on topic.

Republicans ran on making Obama a one term president and won the biggest victory in 70 years. That should tell you something.

There was no way to find OBL until someone in Bush's GITMO that Obama wanted to close down gave up a clue.

Im as fed up with political judges on both sides as you are, but the point of them NOT being elected is to maintain accountability to law they serve, not the interests who got them elected.

They continue to decay the trust that has been given to them. Eventually they will be replaced with a better model. I always liked the idea of a body that was there for the good of us all for as long as they could to stay above this disgusting re-election cycle. But this SC just seems like they are a bunch of traitors.

Byl, #5.2- It's an obvious dedicated "Majority" bunch, not the whole, isn't it? I think Ruth Bader-Ginsburg is STUPENDOUS!

It was the whole, a 9-0 decision.

It is stupid and childish to try to rewrite the constitution on the fly just because you don't agree with a decision. There are a lot of decisions I don't like but I just hope for better appointments going forward, not some lame idea about a "new model" or elections/term limits/etc.

I always liked the idea of a body that was there for the good of us all for as long as they could to stay above this disgusting re-election cycle.

So ... how would that work? I'm with Ortho, the advantage of lifetime appointments is that the Supreme Court can make unpopular decisions. The Court should do what is right, not what is popular. The will of the people is not paramount because the people can be wrong and unfair (consider discrimination, for instance).

softdude, post #6- It keeps getting left out that "it's not okay if the intent of the Legislature creates discrimination or dilution or negation of existing laws and Rights violations! Nor is it okay if their intent behind a law that they've written doesn't rise to a 'Standard of the Law', ie, not an ideology". They are there to write laws, yes; but they're not there to write or change foundational "standards" of the Law. Most especially for their own "Ideological convenience". (or for corporate personhoods, Big Oil,Wall Street, etc, by the way, also!)

The problem I see is even a redistricting for population growth has to become so ugly. Every little step we take seems to be mired in this back and forth right/left banter that leaves the simplest things neglected due to bureaucratic overhead.

Yeah, cuz it's not like the Dems have ever engaged in this kind of behavior. Oh, wait...

Oh, wait? Care to offer any evidence?

Republicans pitch a fit when they can't gerrymander to their benefit. In CA they got a proposition passed that put redistricting in the hands of a nonpartisan citizens commission, and now republicans are pissing and moaning that they want a do-over because they don't like the outcome.

They can always do what Jan Brewer did in AZ and fire the head of the "independent" commission.

And how is this different from the democrat control Texas courts?

lib50, it was the Democrats that were doing the gerrymandering. Try reading something other than the liberal spin.

Stones in a glass house raddave...

maryp:

It was a nonpartisan group that drew the lines. Whether you like them or not. Both dems and teapubs were affected in some cases.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2011/0830/How-new-redistricting-maps-could-reshape-California-politics

Obviously, some have forgotten how not 12 years ago, then Speaker of the House, Tom Delay got his saddle sores lopped for trying the same redistricting. Wouldn't you think these Texas Republicans would get a clue by now? Course now, DeLay's redistricting games came before his Abramoff games.

The hammer would rather betray the county than redistrict with any kind of fairness for the citizens of Texas. All of these games just get a few more votes in for the right wing. Next thing you know they'll be redistricting around the newly created corporate-citizens.

raddave if you read anything political older than the election of Obama you wouldn't have to ask that question. a former democrat. There is always Chicago where dedicated democrats vote 10 years after they die.

Oh but they certainly can, and with the help of the SCOTUS they shall be.....

You are absolutely correct...except that there are more ILLEGAL alliens now. The census does not ask citizenship status. All the more reason to require either a driver's license or acceptable ID card in order to vote.

ILLEGAL immigrants are raping, robbing and pillaging states, counties, cities and tax payers. Just look at CA, AZ, NV and TX, all perfect examples.

Hmm... I wonder how those illegals get their voter registration cards.

ILLEGAL immigrants, don't vote, because again, they don't want to draw attention to themselves and doing something illegal is a good way to draw attention to ones self. Stop it with your xenophobia over illegal immigrants.

I obtained my original voter registration card years back by walking up to a registration booth at a local gun show, filling out a short form and turning it in. No ID or anything else was asked for. Three weeks later I received my voter card in the mail.

Illegals DO vote. They use SS numbers of other people. There are thousands of people, maybe even you, whose SS number is being used by one , two , or even 100 other people. The IRS, and Credit bureaus discover this every day. Progressive media doesn't publish this, because it would make people even more angry about illegals.

illegals DON'T vote, Moran! Stop blaming the "illegals" for you own misfortunes.

To..oldman""'

Really now...you would think fox would be all over this ...As for illegals voting or blacks voting as Mary Poppins ..or Mickey mouse at two different polling places flipping an election..I'm more concerned with who owns the electronic voting and vote counting machines who controls them who makes the software..and how easy they would be to flip an election with no paper trail for a recount and how easy are they to hack into ..

raddave you are so wrong because illegals do vote. maybe not 90% but a great great many do. I have personally seen the democrats at a local fair signing up illegals. All they needed was a utillity bill in their name and bingo a new democratic voter. The new voter in question had a daughter who said he couldn't vote as the family was illegal and the person signing them up said shuss up and that was it. Now i wonder how many more across the country are not legal voters. Obamas pal, "Acorn" may have changed their name but do you really think they will stop their illegal actions?

Stop believing the FUX lies dari. "Illegals" don't vote. Signing up someone to vote, does not mean that they will ever vote. BTW, at my wife citizen's ceremony, the republiCONS were there to register new voters, however, when my wife told them she wanted to register as a democrat, they told her that they wouldn't take her registration form, even though they are required by state law to do so. ACORN didn't change their name, they ceased to exist.

I guess dead people don't vote either. What was is it you said raddave..."moron"? Does it make you feel better to call someone a name? You are aware of the investigations (plural - more than 1) into voter fraud currently under process.

No, they don't ghost. And, you are a moran if you believe that they do. There has not been one charge being brought against a "dead person" voting in years.

Since some of you are so strong that illegal don't vote, then I guess you would be for an English only ballot. I mean, if you are born in the USA then you would have had to learn English in the school system before you were 18 and eligible to vote. To become a Naturalized Citizen, you have to learn to speak English. Therefore all ballots should only be in English.

To..ghost.."""

How do dead people vote ... or are you saying people are voting for somebody they know is dead but they know is still on the voter rolls.....or are you saying they troll obituaries to find somebody dead they know is still on the voter rolls and vote as them...?

Illegals are gonna take a chance at getting caught by immigration by walking into a polling place and voting as who....is that what you on the right are saying...who when and where did this happen.. were charges brought against the poll workers that let this happen

At my polling place if my name ain't on the voter list ..that elderly lady checking names on a list is not gonna let me vote ...and if there's any problem the police officer that's always there by the door will take care of it...

and I just got my city census in the mail ..which states if I don't respond I'll be removed from the active voter list and the voter registration rolls...

The libs up here in WA State have been twisting the hell out of the congressional district boundaries in order to make what they are calling a "Minority Majority" district. I didn't think such a thing was even legal. But this is the Little Soviet of Washington, where the preferred method of electing governors is to continue to recount the ballots as many times as it takes for the Dhimmicrat to win. I expect nothing less.

There are 100's of illegals using each of our SSNs? There are more illegals here than I thought! Or maybe there is some shallow reasoning behind all of this, trying to push your own agenda about illegals. Is that the real the reason these districts are being re-drawn? Or do you really care about illegal immigration and support Obama who has done more against illegal immigration than W?

Maybe when you see brown people signing up as democrats they aren't all "illegal" after all! Maybe you should open your mind to accept that some people look different than you, and that's ok. Don't be so shallow.

"The boundaries set can not discriminate against Latinos and African-Americans and dilute the voting strength of these groups. The minority voters have grown in numbers and should be represented accordingly."

And how should they do this...and what about other minorities...should we find all the gay and lesbian couples and draw boundaries to ensure their electoral representation...how about short people, jews, italians, fat people, the physically hadicapped and native americans...lets draw our congressional districts so that any group who can show that they have been historically discriminated against does not have their voting stringth diluted. The lines on our congressional districts will look like a tangled slinky.

raddave illegal immigrants may not vote but they are counted in the census right there in the border patrol detention center in Bayview because the census counts everybody in the country not every citizen in the country. By the way those in the detention center are from further down in central America they are the OTM's the Mexicans are deported directly back to their country daily.

Illegals can and do get all of the documentation they need to do anything they want in the US. Everything from Drivers liscense, Social Security, Forged Birth Certificates, what every they need they can get it if they have the money to pay for it. Stop trying to fool yourself that people do the right things.

liberal = naive

Only idiots would claim voter fraud doesn't exist or illegals don't vote. It's quite blatant in many areas, in Chicago the slogan is "Welcome to Chicago, remember to vote early and vote often!". Seattle is another joke.

Illegals have access to any type of document they need, they idea they wouldn't use them to avoid being seen is beyond absurd. They get these documents so they CAN blend in.

Yes the dead do vote, as well as dogs, cats, etc. People have gone to jail for such things. The recently dead are the easiest to use. During Gore/Bush people were bragging they voted multiple times.

Here is an Illegal who voted and was caught.

LAKE COUNTY, Ill. - An illegal alien from the Philippines was arrested Thursday morning on a felony complaint charging her with 17 counts related to voter fraud in Lake County. The state charges resulted from a joint investigation conducted by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) and the Lake County State's Attorneys Office. U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) also provided assistance.

Maria Azada, 53, of Grayslake, Ill., was arrested March 17 by ICE HSI agents and a Lake County State's Attorneys special investigator. Azada faces 17 felony counts in Lake County Circuit Court of perjury, mutilation of election materials, and tampering with voting machines in connection with illegal voting by a non-U.S. citizen.

The investigation began in February 2009 when Azada admitted to a USCIS officer during an interview for an immigration benefit that she had voted in an election. It is illegal for foreign nationals to vote in national or state elections in the United States.

A subsequent investigation revealed that Azada allegedly voted nine times in primary, general and consolidated elections between 2003 and 2009. According to the arrest warrant, Azada allegedly falsely claimed to be a U.S. citizen on two Illinois Voter Registration applications.

Notice if you will that this is from ICE.gov

http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/1103/110317lakecounty.htm

Uh, Pugface, in case you hadnt noticed, the WA redistricting plan that created the "Minority Majority" district was headed by Slade Gorton, our states former GOP senator.

I actually like the way Washington did this. Four member commission. Two Democrats & 2 Republicans. Three out of 4 have to agree. No tie breaker. They worked up to the deadline, but they came up with a reasonable plan.

Republicants have done it more than the demoslugs? Please provide the facts or keep your one-sided, ideological spewage to yourself.

Theresa, 'every vote" should count..even ILLEGAL immigrant votes?

You must have forgotten how the Democrats kept recounting the votes in Minnesota in the 2008 Senate election until they got the result that they wanted? I say they must have been trained in the South because they had one voting precinct that had more ballots than they had registered voters. As the old southern saying goes "Vote early and Vote often".

I guess the cat's got Theresa's tongue. Facts have a tendancy to confuse those with hard-line ideologic brain freeze.

Theresa;you can not intellectually argue with some one that is of the belief that they are always RIGHT,it's like crushing ROCKS with A feather, just can't do it!You give an excellent example of the REPUBLICAN dysfunction in the IOWA vote,.I'm guessing some where the President is to BLAME !

Double D, political parties don't count or recount votes.

Slide; Ever hear of Tom DeLay?

raddave you are correct political parties don't but it was the Democrat Sec. of State that kept ordering the recounts until the Democrat candidate had the higher vote count then she certified the vote.

Double D, it was recounted because it was required by Minn state law and it was recounted only once. There were no more than that.

Oh, please DD. Shall we revisit Florida in 2000?

Slide 6, do you have proof that illegal immigrants are voting and, if so, in large enough numbers to change the outcome of an election? The facts thing kinda swings both ways. Funny how that works.

Let's revisit Florida. ABC, NBC, CNN sent people to Florida after the election. Counted, and re counted. Result? Bush won. Side result? If the votes were counted the way the Republicans wanted, the Dems. would have won. If they were counted the way the Dems. wanted, the Republicans would have won by a much wider margin.

Double D, political parties don't count or recount votes.

They do in a primary! You need a civics class. Slide6 is a paid troll tossing out strawman nonsense. Just say "ignore". The first post gave him what he asked for and he ignored it.

No, oldman, the recount was stopped by the same Supreme Court that has come up with this "brilliant" decision. And that is a myth that the republiCONS would have won by a larger margin, if the hand recount had continued Gore would have won by over 200 votes.

The New York times sent ten lawyers to Florida after the SCOTUS ruling and there info totally refutes your off the wall claim !!

Try checking things before posting !

No, the cat hasn't got my tongue. The facts are the facts. I live in a state that has been controlled by the Republican party for the past 15 years, largely because of redistricting and voter supression. Florida gave the election to Bush because of a Supreme court decision which said my vote and the votes of many others did not count. Kathryn Harris gave the electiont to Bush to gain favor for her own political career. Unfortunately for her, everyone remembered that and got rid of her as soon as possible. Right now, in about 25 states, redistricting is taking place and being challenged because of that. It is not I who need to check the facts. I can look at both sides and see that wrong has been done. In the final act though, Gore won the popular vote, which is the people. Every vote should have been counted and this arguement would not be an arguement at all.

Theresa, both sides of this problem do it. When a majority has the say, they choose what they want, not the losing party. That's the way it is nationwide. Right now, that is the best system we have. Until we can actually say, and prove, to EVERYONE'S satisfaction, (impossible,) "one REGISTERED voter, a U.S. citizen, and a member of a particular district," nothing is going to change.

To..Double D""

You mean sort of like this.....

Wis. corrects vote count, gives incumbent big lead

April 07, 2011

WAUKESHA, Wis. — A conservative incumbent surged to a commanding lead in Wisconsin's hotly contested Supreme Court election Thursday, after a predominantly GOP county's clerk announced she had incorrectly entered vote totals in the race seen as a referendum on Republican Gov. Scott Walker's divisive union rights law.

Waukesha County Clerk Kathy Nickolaus said more than 14,000 votes weren't reported to The Associated Press on Tuesday due to "human error." Nickolaus previously worked for a GOP caucus that was under the control of Justice David Prosser, who was speaker of the Assembly at the time and who now stands to benefit from the clerk's error.

"This is not a case of extra votes or extra ballots being found," Nickolaus said. "This is human error, which I apologize for."

Nickolaus said the most significant error occurred when she entered totals from the city of Brookfield, a suburb of Milwaukee, but they were not saved.

Rep. Peter Barca, Democratic Assembly minority leader, said the mistake raises significant suspicion that could warrant an investigation.

"It doesn't instill confidence in her competence or integrity," Barca said.

Nickolaus was given immunity from prosecution in a 2002 criminal investigation into illegal activity by members of the Republican Assembly caucus where she worked as a data analyst and computer specialist. Prosser, who as speaker of the Assembly in 1995 and 1996 controlled the same caucus, was not part of the investigation. Nickolaus resigned from her state job in 2002 just before launching her county clerk campaign.

The corruption probe took down five legislative leaders, all of whom reached plea deals.

An audit of Nickolaus' handling of the 2010 election found that she needed to take steps to improve security and backup procedures, like stop sharing passwords. The audit was requested after the county's director of administration said Nickolaus had been uncooperative with attempts to have county experts review her systems and confirm backups were in place.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-04-07-wisconsin-vote-correction_N.htm

attryia if the census counts those however many millions of illegal aliens in the country and they are more concentrated in some areas than others it changes the district based on population to reflect their numbers vs the true character of the citizen base of the district. So they vote by coming and their ethnic group benefits by their presence in districts drawn to benefit them.

MSNBC is misplacing posts today

I'm going to go out on a limb and say it was a 5-4 decision.

LOL Ya reckon?

Last time I looked raddave and atriya "unanimous" ment that all 9 justices basically said the our Texas court was full crap.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/21/us/supreme-court-rejects-judge-drawn-maps-in-texas-redistricting-case.html

Next time do a little research about the story instead of relying on a liberal bias new source like MSNBC not to mention this important fact as it intentional on their part to leave it out...as various facts and context are with many of the stories.

Tracy, the article above didn't say anything about "unanimous"

That's my point raddave....you guys relied on MSNBC to give you the whole truth and look what happened. Some advice.....MSNBC stories = automatic skepticism.

Tracy oh so right

America that goes for ANY news organization including Fox News BTW.

Uptight?.........oh yeah!, dyed blonde?.....uh-huh!, botoxed?....likely!....trophy? HA! don't think so, scooter!

Her expiration date, theoretically, is much, much later than the one on the bottom of her hair spray can!

All I can say is I wouldn't want to hear what my exes said about me nor would they like to be judged on what I would say about the first two. I'm not even sure you could print what I'd say about them.

Who appointed the Chief Justass?!!?!?

Depends who was President when they were appointed.

Perhaps other states should take a look at your success. Oh, wait...that would require Republicans to work WITH Democrats, so it will not happen.

Washington is so fair it allows dead people to vote for Democratic governors!

Change, I dare you to come up with one case of voter fraud, voting for any democratic candidate in the last election

Texas is one of the hardest working states in the Union, Jeff. Probably because there aren't too many slackers here such as yourself. Stay where you are until further notice.

Please Jeff don't come.And if traveling I 40 please wait to stop until NM.

Exactly. Those people in Amarillo don't take kind to liberal pusses taking potty breaks in their town.

The northeast liberals are just mad because they lost 4 votes. Maybe if they adopted the Texas way of doing things, people would have stayed and had jobs.

tallman, you're full of crap. As a registered voter in California, I know you are full of the brown stuff. You have to fill out the registration in person at the DMV and they have to verify your citizenship and residency.

Try facts, not factsfromass

tallman, you're full of crap. As a registered voter in California, I know you are full of the brown stuff. You have to fill out the registration in person at the DMV and they have to verify your citizenship and residency.

Try facts, not factsfromass

To..tallman..""

why is it I don't believe you...

CA should do what Texas does require birth certificate or proof of legal residency for a drivers license plus biometric thumbprints encoded on license. You still have motor voter provisions but the box that is marked citizen Y/N prevents voter registration if N is entered.

ED these districts aren't only for the electoral college they are also our congressional districts. Do you want to eliminate congress too?

S.Ulmer, Texas has to submit it re-districting plan to the U.S. justice department, because it was one of the Jim Crow states. Texas can't be trusted to do what Texas needs, because, historically, Texas hasn't taken care of its entire population.

That's funny, because durring the finacial hard time of recent, they (Texas) have faired better than any other state in the union. Can't take care of themselves? From the time of it's war for independance from mexico, to the present, Texas is one of the MOST capable. It is the federal system that has kept them down.

Be careful what you ask for, if Texas were able to cecede, (not likely) the state would lose all those army and air force bases, not to mention NASA. It wouldn't be long before you'd be crying for help.

No, they haven't. They had to take stimulus money to reduce their budget deficit, the second largest of any state in absolute dollars, and the largest of any state by GDP. Texas now takes more in Federal money than it contributes.

We should just send Ricky with the paperwork to Geneva and petition the World court to redress the grievances of 1865. And if we didn't have to live by all your idiotic requirements to school and house illegal aliens we wouldn't need stimulus money. Also why should we not get our fair share of the money the feds took back in stimulus funds we're not stupid. Let's see there are 4 or 5 non taxable military bases in Texas and at least one non taxable national park that is bigger than some states. The military bases send their kids to Texas schools plus all the illegals the feds can't seem to keep out. Since our government is funded by property and sales taxes I can see why we think you should help with the expenses you dictate.

Why don't you secede ?? Most of us wont miss you...

I agree General. I live in Kingwood just north of Houston proper and that twit Lee is an embarrassment to the people in the 18th. Your point about districts being shaped so as to benefit a particular candidate this is EAXCTLY why Barney "It's not my Fault" Frank quit in Massachusetts.....his district got redrawn.

So true, why do we let the few squeaky libs dictate what the majority needs. When we are forced by the whining of the vocal minority to bend to their ideals, it weaken this nation, encourages disent, creates the aire of incompetence in the worldwide political view. No wonder the world in general thinks the US is a joke, we let the weak rule the strong. And it WILL be the downfall of this once great nation. If we continue to let the liberal/progessives push their ideals at us as fast as they think them up, we will choke on our own crap. This includes, at the top of the list, the media and their bought and paid for opinions.

Freedom from the tyranny of the majority is a fundamental principle that American Democracy is built on.

The phrase "tyranny of the majority", used in discussing systems of democracy and majority rule, is a criticism of the scenario in which decisions made by a majority under that system would place that majority's interests so far above a dissenting minority's interest that the minority would be actively oppressed, just like the oppression by tyrants and despots.

Limits on the decisions that can be made by such majorities, such as constitutional limits on the powers of parliament and use of a bill of rights in a parliamentary system, are common ways of reducing the perceived problem. Separation of powers is also implemented to prevent such an event from happening internally in the government.

Ayn Rand, Objectivist philosopher and novelist, wrote against such tyranny, saying that individual rights are not subject to a public vote, and that the political function of rights is precisely to protect minorities from oppression by majorities.

You do know there's a law against plagiarism. Why don't you think on your own next time.

Its wikipedia - open source, no copyright violations.

Besides, it's all true.

Well my district extends from cameron county to nueces county so the rep is always elected by the larger population in the nueces -san patricio area and could care less if Brownsville sank into the sea.

re-elect the obamanation,

a democracy is designed as majority rule, that means the majority has the say in what the whole does and lives by. that does not mean that if the vocal minority does not like something they can "redistrict" an area to change the outcome and results. if the minority does not like what has been approved of by the majority, they have choices. move somewhere else, or, convince a majority to change things.

forcing the majority to do what the minority wants is called socialism, and has been proven to be detramental to the advancement of society and freedom. the feds need to stay out of the districting of states, the states know what is required for their individual needs.

ayn rand was a psychotic socialist, wandering around fooling people to think she was a "capitalist" with stauch conservetive values. she was an immoral slut, without ethics, and lived a degenerative lifestyle.