so....you want a dictator.

hmmm....dont we have that already ?

They need better people on the stage.

I have no idea who is going to be elected president. BUT, if a Republican candidate wins, what is going to happen to the little nasty posting community at MSNBC?

The comments here are always embarrassing. I use MSNBC as my home page and look here for discussion. Very rarely is there any discussion. Why cant we at least say something intelligent here?

jack, colin powel, jeb bush, chris christie, condi rice...

LOL keck like Obama is a dictator. Although the republican house did cram a last minute detention bill into the larger spending bill that does give him the means to detain a civilian indefinitely.

Wait a minute .... I digress, he is now officially a dictator . Thanks GOP !

The others (except for Ron) are only there to give Romney a boost. The Republicrat Party thought we would see Paul as novelty value only. If Paul is on the level then he should run as an Independent or third party.

funny, colin powel listened to bill clintons national security adviser sandy berger go on and on about wmd.

but hey if you want a history lesson be prepared bruce, lol

Occam I agree with you this site reminds me of third grade. Suppose we could get 5-6 intelligent people who can do something besides namecalling and start our own. I'd like a real discussion of some of the issues. Like maybe an atheist who is intelligent enough to talk about how we handle the first amendment problem without denying those same rights to the other side. Or someone who can speak about the economy without descending to namecalling. It would be so refreshing.

keck you mean the history lesson of a 1.5 trillion dollar boondoggle of a war or the history lesson of Regan kissing Osama Bin Laden or the history lesson of Bush holding hands with the Saudis in the Rose Garden or the history lesson of the the surgicl strikes in Bosnia?

The "debate" already started and the BS is flying all over the place....Wait until it hits the fan.....

bruce, the lesson of bill clinton and the entire democrat party telling americans sadaam hussein was "making and storing tons of chem/bio weapons"....which lead to the regime change act of 1998, which lead to the removal of sadaam....by force.

not to mention blaming bush41 for "not getting sadaam when he had the chance" senator robert byrd on the floor of the senate 1995.

trust me...we didnt forget

The debate is unnecessary. The hedge fund manager, John Paulson along with other like-minded businessmen and "dummy corporations" have decided the race for the GOP. Now, sit back and wait for the big campaign where John and company's millions will compete with common citizen's hard earned dollars and patriotic support.

Must be an amazing world inside the keck fantasyland brain. Lots of revisionist history as well.

nah, i watch lots of c-span, and can look up things on the computer. (regime change act of 1998 is one of them)

so much for "revisionist history", huh ? ......it actually happened, LOL

...it's pretty nifty to fact check.

Occam & lonereb, I'm with you. It's hard to explain why people with such hateful views flock to this forum. I've saved pages of comments that are simply mind blowing in their vileness. I suggest stricter moderation, which I've always despised, but sometimes it's needed to elevate the discourse. Otherwise, it's simply useless to engage in adult debate here.

Watching now. Romney would have voted "yes" to the National Defense Authorization Act. And he's the front runner........why????

RON PAUL 2012

Blingrich is such a hypocritical tool. I really hope he's drummed out of the race after Saturday. We'll all be much better off without his nasty a$$ anymore!!

you got it joe .....

BTW, we here in America are 'The Rich,' because anyone who makes $34K a year (which is not hard to do) is in the top 1% Worldwide.

How is that relevant?

Get a job. Then give all your earnings to the government.

Your assumption is that anyone who has a job is automatically rich and in the group that we believe needs to pay a fairer share. This is false.

Bruce, feel free to have a complete rant release, that's partly what newsvine is about. I've had my moments too, When it is over start, then a conversation can begin. I appreciate the fact that you are very upset, but acting in emotion almost always makes a small mess a much bigger one.

I appreciate that Keck watches a good bit of C-Span. These politicians say and do a whole lot more than the 10 second soundbytes fed to you by the audio and visual media, and tons more than the couple of phrases - interpreteted for you by the written media.

From 2007 - 2011 the only time you could see what repbulicans were doing was after midnight. Why do you think that is?

You are upset because something bad happened to you and people have fed you reasons to hate one group or another and you have taken it and run with it, just like they want you to.

The only way to beat this is to calm down, and gather facts from both sides - the truth is always somewhere between.

The mill shut down 4 years after Romney left Bain. The Unions refused to negotiate lower wages when China started dumping steel products in 1995 and Clinton refused to put tariffs on the Chinese steel. During this time over 40 steel mills across the U.S. shut down.

This is the location of the steel mill in Georgetown, formerly known as Georgetown Steel.
In 2003, the mill shut down due to economic competition with China, among other factors. The mill was purchsed by the former International Steel Group (ISG), who reopened the mill. ISG was then purchased in 2005 by Mittal, who subsequently merged with Arcelor. It is now named ArcelorMittal Steel.
The steel mill was established in 1969 in Georgetown, South Carolina and operates in the wire rod sector of the steel industry. US shipments of wire rod are about 6 million tons per year and accounts for 5% of the total US steel market. The mill sells primarily to domestic wire drawers that process wire rod into products for diverse end use applications, including the automotive, construction, industrial and consumer industries.
The plant operates two electric arc furnaces and is capable of producing 1 million tons of liquid steel annually and 750,000 tons of wire rod.
1219 Front St., Georgetown, SC 29442

How dare these rich pompous asses from the Republican Party infer that liberals want people to stay on food stamps and dependent on the government.

It is Republican policies that have caused middle class people to slip into poverty by exporting jobs overseas for decades now. Unions have been mostly destroyed, and right to work anti unionism and extreme vulture capitalism is now in fashion ..... How can an individual fight against Capitalist bullies !!!!!!!!

Raucous booing followed when Paul tried to argue for a Golden Rule in foreign affairs, “Don’t do to other nations what we don’t want them to do to us.”

WOW.

Just another sad example of the kind of people we have in the Republican Party these days.

Reminds me of last week and those marines pissing on dead bodies. I live in Indiana (mostly ultra-right-wing nutjobs) and most of the people were ENCOURAGING that kind of behavior.

Absolutely embarrassing.

Freshieee - remember when you point there are 3 fingers pointed back at you. You are the precise reason those with money refuse to give large sums of money and responbility to people under the age of 40. To Brash, don't really take the time to get all the facts to make a good solid decision. If you don't figure out by age 40 that you really don't know Jack, then you really got a problem - because once you figure that out, you start making a conscience effort to make dumb statements or decisions.

@ wilsonaide: You said "among other factors". The biggest factor being Reagan's deregulation. In my opinion, we have gone downhill ever since. Republicans have ruined this country.

Help Defend America - Fire the Tea Party Republicans in 2012.

"He (Gingrich) also won strong support from the audience when he was asked whether it was belittling to minorities to suggest that poor, young kids be paid for "light janitorial work" at school. Gingrich said, no, he does not." ... asked by Juan Williams.

IMO, Juan should have also asked the question at the same time if it is belittling to adult minorities to suggest that the poor are not capable of getting photo IDs for voting.

The continued stereotyping by Democrats and Republicans, using minorities to wedge for votes, needs to stop.

The insults so elites can stroke their egos and get votes needs to stop.

I don't see why the republicans are making such a big deal over this Bain Capital stuff. This is what they want for America. Bain represents the entire republican plan for the country. The teabaggers should be eating this up...

McGrath, if you ever learn to read, think and do research, let me know.

Chinese steel workers were earning $.64 and your hero Clinton refused to put on anti dumping or compensatory tariffs on imported Chinese steel that would have saved thousands of jobs and hundreds of companies.

Clinton is a democrat. Tell everyone why Clinton for 5 years refused to put on anti dumping tariffs on Chinese steel to save thousands of American Jobs!

You are the big shot with the big mouth. Explain why Clinton sat on his ass and it took a Republican president to put tariffs on the dumping of Chinese steel in the U.S.

ItsAboutTime-3704531 Right itsabouttime put in a socialist that is going to increase the debt another 6.7 Trillion dollars. Do you have any idea how long it will take your grandchildren to begin to pay off the principle on that debt? Try sitting with a calculator and figure that out. Today the interested on a 10 trillion dollar debt is over $400,000,000,000 and that has to come off the top before government salaries, before more horseshi* plans from Obama and more union giveaways.

Occam, LoneReb & Blue I would gladly make that move with you. I like to look at the opinions of others because I am not always up to snuff on some politics, especially economics. I don't like to take what the news reports at face value, so I look to see what others think of the issues. Often times I can get a useful bit of information which leads me to do more research into a particular topic. Sometimes, the poster helps me understand in layman's terms something I don't necessarily get. Mostly, it's just a bunch of people from opposing views acting like children. I am an independent atheist who would really like some intelligent conversation on the issues.

I am not sure what I think about the Republican candidates, but that is because there is so much crap flying I can't really tell where they stand on actual issues. I thought Huntsman looked viable, but he has dropped out. I like some of Ron Paul's ideas, but I'm just not sure about him. I'm not sure that what he wants to achieve in foreign policy is a good thing. I can't get behind Gringrich or Romney because I am afraid of what they would do to policies I do support. (like the repeal of DADT) And I don't like that they tend to villianize people in this country who need a helping hand. Not everyone on food stamps/welfare is taking advantage of the system. Some people really do need the help and are trying their darndest to get a job. Santorum, well, I'm still trying to figure this guy out. I wish they would just debate the issues that are facing the U.S and leave the blaming and finger pointing for the newsvine posters.

Amazing. Everyone thinks that even if one of these people replace the current "position", that things are gonna CHANGE. Yep. Just like "Mr President said" . "Change". AT THIS POINT. . . .even if things dont change its gonna cost us more to get a newbee in HIS SEAT AND COST US EVEN MORE. Leave the guy there, (and no, I am not demo or RP), but COME ON PEOPLE, if you were going on a hard ride and not knowing would you want someone whos never been prez to take over controlls at this point? sheesh HE SAID IT WOULD TAKE TIME everyone this day and age are like little children. Whining for instant results.

Olrockcandymtnroustabout Sorry your opinion doesn't count. Hard facts count. The unions confronted with the facts of the Chinese wages and decreasing sales, competing cost of Chinese steel refused to concede on wages. The plant needed modernization and without the guarantee of a return on investment, it would be foolish to invest money in the business with it losing money and the President of the United States is refusing to protect steel mills and the price of their goods.

It would take me several hours to explain to you the economics and bring you to a level where you could understand the complexities and whys that Bain had to close and walk away from this steel mill.

You could look up Bain and find out how many businesses and industries it saved.

And yes they do make a lot of money, just like you. You put what into your job and how did you get the knowledge to do your job?

If someone with no experience wanted to do your job, how long would it take him to learn it?

A good Certified Public Accountant requires almost the same education and learning and studying as a doctor. Yet they don't make nearly as much. They have to know local, city, county, state and federal tax laws and keep abreast of all rulings and court cases plus yearly changes and changes during the year.

Jesse G-341147 If you wouldn't be a knee jerk (and I mean it both ways) liberal, you would know that Kennedy and Johnson turned Eisenhower's surplus into the biggest deficit since WWII. And If you look at Carter's deficit for four years it was bigger than Nixon's and Ford's for 8 years. Reagans was large but he added 20,000,000 and there was prosperity. It was Clinton's republican congress that forced the balanced budget down his throat. And Obama who has no business or economic background will have grown the federal deficit 67%.

If you take the time to look up who controlled the congress in relation to the deficits, the democrats voted for four times more dollar deficits than the republicans. And you add up how many jobs were created when there were Republican presidents compared to Democrat presidents you are in for a tremendous shock.

When you compare the experience of Republican presidents to the experience of Democratic presidents, you are in for a shock. Overall Republican presidents have 2 1/2 more times experience in the political arena that democrats.

Freshieee

WE HAVE TO REDISTRIBUTE INCOME.

OK Fishieee, I’ll bite.

How do we “redistribute” the wealth? Who will be the referee? Your cherished government? The same government that has created $15.2 Trillion Dollars in National Debt? And before you start blaming Bush for that was he also responsible for the $117 Trillion Dollars in Unfunded Liabilities your sacrosanct entitlements have created? Or was that the Democrats FDR and LBJ?

The gap between rich and poor has SKYROCKETED since 1980.

Really? I’m sure you realize that in 1922 the bottom 99% held 63.3% of the wealth and the Top 1% held 36.7%. In 2007 The bottom 99% held 65.4% of the wealth and the top 1% held 34.6%. The lowest post-Depression level that the bottom 99% held was in 1995 at 61.5%, the top 1% held 38.5%. Now, who was President in 1995?

due to the stupid trickle-down economics of the right wing.

Hmmm, are you sure it was the right wing? I thought the $863 Billion dollar Trickle-down was created in 2009 by Obama. And please, don’t embarrass yourself by stating it wasn’t trickle-down. We poured that massive amount of money into the top of the government and expected it to trickle-down into all those “shovel-ready” jobs. Remember? All those shovel ready jobs that Obama laughed in your face about that were a hoax. Those 54.6 shovel ready jobs created in California at a cost of $111 million dollars. Now we all know how horrible California’s municipal governments are so in a better situation I’m sure we could have created 60-70 jobs. Right?

we NEED to restore economic equality.

When did we ever have economic equality? What year was that? How was equality defined? How did we reach that coveted milestone? What caused us to get to that alleged Shangri-La? Once again, what is equality? Who decides what is equal? You? Me? The government? Obama? The Pope? Oprah? Please enlighten us.

and the best way of raising taxes without harming the recovery is raising taxes on people who make over $250,000??

OK, I’ll play. What tax bracket will create this massive revenue you Libbies keep claiming? Now, how much revenue will it create? Will your expected revenue be based on our current 72,000+ page tax-code or will it require modification? If it needs to be modified, how? You do realize that regardless of the upper tax brackets our total tax receipts have stayed at a near constant 18% +/-2 of GDP, right? Income tax revenue has stayed constant at about 8.6% of GDP. These rates have stayed within these ranges whether the upper bracket is 35% or 92%. So, how will your magic solution help?

Finally.

Eliminate the Bush tax cuts, couple that with an equal number of spending cuts and savings from entitlement reform, and we have over $7 trillion in deficit reduction over 10 years plus lower interest savings.

Will this legislation demand a freeze on further spending for those 10 years that Congress or the President can’t change by legislative or executive fiat? Will there be legislation included that no future administrations can change any of this? Will there be legislation stating that ALL of the revenue generated from increased taxes or spending cuts MUST be used to decrease the Debt?

Good luck with that wet dream.

As an aside, how will we stop the runaway costs of the Unfunded Liabilities that went up over 5 TRILLION Dollars last year alone?

Romney groomed the Bain horse for the primaries - and - he has to ride it. I'll bet Romney stables this 'free enterprise' nag for the general election - and - suddenly becomes a Governor. Romney may try to run as a 'compromising' Governor during the general election.

Romney has the option to run as either a 'free enterprise' businessman or as a 'compromising' Governor - whichever message grows legs. Having experience in the financial industry - Romney understands it is necessary to tell the marks what they want to hear. Otherwise the suckers may slip away ...

UNBELIEVABLE god How can you be so naive??????? Obummer flunked his on the job training period. He has never got his hands dirty, sweated at a job and has refused to release his school records for high school, college or law school! He refuses to reveal his source of finances from his last day of high school until he was given a job as a researcher at the law firm.

He has no business experience, no job experience and no economic experience. Face it Obummer is a political hack. How long do you want to give him to further ruin the U.S.A.

Mitt Romney looked as emotional as a tuna salad out there tonight.

All the pundits said it was his to lose, and he is clearly losing it.

Expect Newt Gingrich and/or Ron Paul bump in SC after tonight.

Hardly sounds like Paul will get a boost from it, he had to know questioning the killing of Osama Bin Laden was unpopular, it seems like he is unfamiliar with the Geneva convention that does not allow for the assassination of foreign heads of state, Bin Laden was hardly that.

I would expect a bump in Gingrich/Santorum only because they are traditionally more conservative. At the end of the day Mitt Romney is a corporate raider, is that part of capitalism, absolutely, the question is does this experience qualify him to lead a governments economy.

wilsonaide - it's good to finally see intelligent posts with substance on these threads, rather than conjecture. Thank you :)

Jesse G-341147

It is Republican policies that have caused middle class people to slip into poverty by exporting jobs overseas for decades now.

WOW!

Did any of those jobs leave our shores when we signed the Agreement on Textile and Clothing? Did any of those jobs REALLY start leaving when we signed NAFTA? You realize both of those were signed in 1994, right? Was a Republican president then? How about the 15 years of negotiations it took to get China into the WTO in 2001? Were those all Republicans sitting on the 142 Member Governments, that required 900 pages of legal text, who agreed to allow China in?

Did the Republicans force Obama to sign the Trans-Pacific Partnership last November, which will allow Vietnam textiles duty-free access to the U.S. market?

PULEEEEEZ stop your incessant blather about the Republicans being the cause of jobs leaving our shores.

Unions have been mostly destroyed, and right to work anti unionism and extreme vulture capitalism is now in fashion.

Unions have destroyed themselves. Uncompetitive wages (NO I DON’T MEAN MINIMUM WAGE SCALES), irrational benefit plans and, primarily, unsustainable legacy costs are the reason. Why is Right-to-Work anti-unionism? Shouldn’t every American citizen have the ability to decide if he or she wants to belong to a union?

Finally, please define vulture capitalism and tell me how prevalent it is?

@FreedomRingsLoud -- Did you know that the Federal debt is around 25% of all debt owed in the United States? Did you know that 93% of the Federal debt was created over the last 30 years - after the Unites States switched to a 'financial services' based economy? Did you know there is more personal debt (mortgages, credit cards, auto loans, college loans, etc.) than Federal debt? Did you know that private business holds the largest debt liability in the United States? Of all the pieces of the debt pie - the Federal debt is the smallest.

Did you know that before the United States switched to a 'financial services' economy around 30 years ago - the United States enjoyed trade surpluses - that workers produced something tangible - that mom and pop businesses flourished? Even during the Great Depression the United States was a 'producer' nation - not a consumer nation. All you are saying is that when American works - workers do better economically. When America tries to gamble its way to prosperity - there are fewer workers and more debt.

Did you know that the $863 billion stimulus was an equal mix of tax cuts, social safety net spending, and infrastructure? Do you recall that the Republicans were the ones demanding more infrastructure? Did you know that John Boehner and the TEA House reclaimed some of the infrastructure money before it could be spent and claimed they made budget cuts? All you are pointing out is that tax cuts do cost the government something - that tax cuts do not pay for themselves. All you are saying is that infrastructure money rescinded for phony budget cuts do not create jobs.

Did you know that the top 30% of wage earners receive 70% of the all the wages in the United States? The top 30% of wage earners should be paying at least 70% of all the income taxes. If your taxes are too high - complain to the people earning more than you do - because - you are subsidizing them, too.

Income equality means you are rewarded for your labor with a wage that keeps ahead of inflation. Since the United States became a 'financial services' based economy - wages have been stagnant - inflation caused by speculation has increased faster than wages. 'Picking yourself up by the bootstraps' requires work - but - work has been devalued over the past 30 years. There is no realistic chance to work your way to prosperity in our 'financial services' based economy.

I just rewatched the whole debate, I took particular note of the many Grinch supporters there just as many as Paul supporters.

The Twitter Breakdown at the end. (internet votes)

Economy; #1 Paul, #2 Grinch, #3 Perry, #4 Santy, #5 Mitts

Foreign Policy; #1 Paul, #2 Grinch, #3 Perry, #4 Santy, #5 Mitts

Race; #1 Paul, #2 Grinch, #3 Perry, #4 Santy, #5 Mitts

Romney's Bain Record; #1 Paul, #2 Santy, #3 Perry, #4 Grinch, #5 Mitts

Debate winner based upon the twitter vote reported on screen...

#1 Dr Paul

#2 Gingrich

#3 Perry

#4 Santorum

#5 Romney

After debate analysis says Grinch won it.

I would agree with Jungleboogie above.

Nerm_L

Did you know that before the United States switched to a 'financial services' economy around 30 years ago - the United States enjoyed trade surpluses - that workers produced something tangible - that mom and pop businesses flourished?

Nerm, I absolutely agree.

If you go through my past posts I have been screaming this for decades. Actually we are an 80% consumption/service sector economy. I have been asking forever for someone to show me an economy based on this model that has ever created the wealth, prosperity and standard of living we have become accustomed to. There is none.

In 1960 our economy was based on 53% domestic exportable manufacturing. Today it is 9%. I have been promoting a 4 pronged approach. Trade reform, tax reform, regulation reform and union reform. We as a nation are still in the 50's with all these policies but we want to compete in the 21st century. It can't and it won't happen. Just as importantly we need to dramatically improve our education system, the DOE has been an abysmal failure.

Raising taxes, tax brackets, has never added revenue as a percentage of GDP. The only way to increase revenue is to broaden the tax base, meaning jobs, and to increase the amount of new money coming into our Treasury and personal accounts. The only way to do this is to export more, at a profit, than we import. Much of our industry has been decentralized, automated and technologically streamlined. We are much more productive. This combined with off-shoring we have had to change our economic model. This is not unique toAmerica. The biggest reality we have to face is that most of those nice factory jobs will never come back. Education is a very important part of our recovery in the industrial sector simply because much of today's jobs have become automated.

U.S. manufacturing employment has dropped by one-third over the past decade. Contrary to popular belief, all these jobs have not moved overseas. They have been automated. Manufacturers have become more productive and can now produce the same amount of goods with fewer workers. Technology has eliminated many unskilled manufacturing jobs, while creating some new highly skilled positions.

These same factors have eliminated manufacturing jobs in countries around the world, including China. Despite the short-term pain of job losses, automation of rote work benefits workers and consumers. Automation of rote tasks on the assembly line reduces the boredom of work and improves worker safety. Increased productivity has also made manufactured goods more affordable for American families.

With all this we need to make significant changes to our economic model. Creating a better business climate is the answer. This will lead to more jobs coming back and allow us to reduce our debt.

Dear FRLOUD I disagree. An economic growth based on export is not sustainable. It will function temporarily: 1) if you have a monopoly on the product, (for example oil), and then only until that resource is exhausted. 2) The cost of your labor is so much lower that the import country that even after transportation costs and currency differences are included, you can still make a profit. 3) You can create revolutionary products that are in demand world wide and can also enforce international copyright laws. The key to sustainable economic stability is domestic demand and production. We should only view export as the icing on the cake; a productivity, and ingenuity bonus. As far as taxes go, I think the main problem in America is the lack of control. The IRS only audits a very small percentage of tax returns...........I heard it was somewhere around 10%. Correct me if I'm wrong. This should be at 50% at least. "Trust is good, control is better".

The pernicious and loathsome Marxist Obama and the Socialist party were destroyed last night but you would never no it reading reports from PMSNBC.

Any one of these candidates could defeat the Dictator and Chief

The five remaining candidates also sought to outdo one another in calling for lower taxes. Paul won that competition handily, saying he thought the top rate should be zero.

And you want the Ayn Rand desciple to be president of our country. Paul is just as kookie as Bachman only difference is sex and age

"The pernicious and loathsome Marxist Obama and the Socialist party were destroyed last night"

You just proved ignorance is BLISS

Everybody in the country except you knows Obama is not loathsom nor a marxist nor a socialist.

Actually it's only the people on this site that votes for him who thinks that. Everybody else thinks he is!

The reason Romney will likely win is simple numbers. He is the ONLY moderate, so he gets 100% of the moderate republican vote. The conservative republican block, even though it is quite a bit larger than the moderate block, is being split three ways between Santorum, Gingrich, and Perry. Those three need to get together and determine which ONE should carry on in the race. If they'd do that, they could have a conservative nominee. If they don't, it will be Romney, plain and simple.

I personally think Mitt Romney is a "milk toast" candidate, only slightly more conservative than Obama, and just as willing to flip flop on any position when it makes political sense. He could well lose to Obama because there would not be that stark a difference between the two. I would hold my nose and vote for Romney, not because I'd be that enthusiastic about having him in the White House, but because I'd be that enthusiastic about having Obama out. Let's hope enough others would feel the same.... It's feeling like McCain all over again!

Wilsonaide............you have a really good description of the steel mill history in Georgetown but I thought that it is now closed for good. Is that incorrect?? Thanks

Post #1.53, The comment, "Any one of these candidates could defeat the Dictator and Chief"

That is a silly comment when you take in consideration the Republican Party's list of 'accomplishments' in the past few years.

What an amazing list of goals and recent accomplishments:

Keep millions out of work in the hope that the hated Obama loses his job.

Pass laws to bring more immigrants into the U.S. to take American jobs.

Reward corporations that move American jobs off shore.

Take from the middle-class to give to the wealthy.

Start wars to enrich defense contractors, oil companies and politicians.

Steal individual constitutional rights, and be­stow them on corporations.

Sanction unlimited imprisonment without charge or trial.

Advocate torture.

Refuse to punish, or even to regulate the Wall Street crooks who caused the economic collapse.

Remove clean air and water protections in the name of corporate greed.

Work to repeal the affordable health care law so that HMOs can increase profits.

Prevent college students, the elderly, the poor and minorities from voting.

Spend like there is no tomorrow, while pre­tending to be concerned about deficits.

Dumb down America by reducing and de­grading educational opportunities.

Make war on the reproductive rights of women.

Deny that climate change is a problem which must be addressed.

Revive racial and religious prejudices.

Denigrate anyone who disagrees with us.

The list goes on and on.

You should be proud GOP!

And, these are the reasons why I am proud to no longer belong to the Republican Party!

Occam, Reb, Veggie, et al.

I too would gladly join you on a site with some rational discussion minus the name-calling and mud-slinging.

As I have pointed out many times on this blog, the conversations here are playground level. They achieve nothing.

Or, perhaps they do. Political junkies come here for this form of group therapy session so they CAN hurl insults at each other, pointlessly, from the safety of their anonymous blog monikers. I have suggested many, many times that we would be better off if we required posters to use their real name, the city where they live and if they want to use an avatar they must use a photo of themselves.

But that would defeat the purpose of this little group therapy session since the posters would have to behave and comment with maturity and rationality.

I've also suggested more than once that the mechanisms be changed so that fellow posters cannot collapse comments, only the moderators can collapse a comment for a clear violation of the code. But that too would defeat the purpose of most of the posters here.

If the above changes were made I suspect it WOULD only be you and me discussing the political situation in this country. Most of the others would quickly lose interest because they are only here for the squabble and not to find solutions.

I blame hate radio and FOX News for the current state of uncivil behavior in our politics and on this blog and it needs to stop.

Obama/Biden 2012

I blame hate radio and FOX News for the current state of uncivil behavior in our politics and on this blog and it needs to stop.

Why do you say this, Skip? I watch both Fox and MSNBC and I can honestly say I see more closed-minded "hate speech" on MSNBC than I do on Fox. I believe that most liberals bash Fox but really have no idea what is actually on Fox. They just spout the party line that it's awful, hateful, etc. I challenge you to watch Bill Oreilly for a week and then come back and tell me if he is honestly spewing hatred and venom. I suspect you might actually become a regular viewer once you find out what you've been missing in the other media outlets (it's amazing what stories go completely unreported).

Romney bids farewell and endorsements Huntsman, "The Mormon Cult faiths "WILL"

FreedomRingsLoud, right on my friend. The hard left can't handle the truth.

Hey Skip, "I Second that ! ............. "Fox lowlife news & Tea-ReTards ratings are down because of their hate & lies" From Skip !

Occam's Razor

After the Republican President takes office it will hopefully be much quieter and more intelligent in the discussion here. Obama said he would win this election using the internet, although that may have included gaining some control here, which they are still trying to do. A good many of the "volunteer" posters for Obama will be joining the unemployment lines after the election. As to the debates, it is becoming a re-hash of the same things over and over. The tired rants about Bain is rediculous, since it amounts to a company that takes failing companies, leans them down and makes the profitable once more. 'That is capitalism which is probably why so many liberals don't like it. In thier imaginary world, the business would get government money, keep going and paying employees for doing a bad job as long as the government hand outs lasted.

Some of the discussions last night were interesting. I like Newt's comment that the five candidates up on the stage, unlike Obama, think work is good. Having to have 99 weeks of unemployment is a disgrace to our country and a condemnation of the current administration. I do agree that felons should not be able to vote. They have shown themselves to have disregard for the life and property of others therefore have not business making any part of a decision that affects the life of others. That will probably get me some racist comments since almost everything from Obama's supporters seems to come down to that. I am so ready for this election and this administration to be over.

@FreedomRingsLoud -- You raise valid points but, I believe, you are missing the mark on some of them.

I disagree that the large number of jobs disappearing have been caused by automation. Automation has been in place since the 1950's and while the automation has improved - I have not observed that many more functions that have been automated. Besides, increasing automation should lower cost - reduce a business' exposure to labor regulations (fewer workers) - and reduce a business' exposure to unions (again fewer workers). Automation not only eliminates workers - automation eliminates many of your talking points.

Unions represent less than 9% of the workforce in the United States - and - many of those represented employees are in public sector jobs. There are more business owners, CEOs, and managers in the United States than there are workers represented by a labor organization. Maybe the problem is not unions but too many chiefs - not enough indians?

Measuring taxes as a percentage of GDP provides a cloudy view, at best. Increasing taxes will increase government revenue - that is not rocket science. Cutting taxes decreases government revenue - simple business mechanism. If actual revenue increases - but - revenue does not increase as a percentage of GDP - then GDP has also increased. Raising taxes - increased GDP.

But the issue is not GDP - the issue is the ability of the government to pay for past and present services it provides in real dollars - not as a fraction of GDP. Cutting government services sounds easy and seems logical but cutting government services also increases unemployment and lowers GDP. It is less about what to cut and more about when is the proper time to cut.

'Free enterprise' is NOT going to fix our economy or fix the problems with our government. Free enterprise, quire simply, is conducting economic activity without moral or ethical accountability. Free enterprise does not care if the economic activity is capitalist or socialist - or - if it destroys the economy. We need to dump the 'free enterprise', 'free market', 'free trade' crapola and return to an economy governed by the principles of true capitalism.

Bottom line - when America works - everyone prospers. Rising tides do, indeed, lift all boats - equally. Removing the moral and ethical accountability (regulations) in our economy will only allow the immoral and unethical to prosper.

Patriotic...I don't recall posting that. I don't normally use the term "retard" although I guess it's possible I was off my medication that day or rip-roaring drunk.

I freely admit when I started posting on this blog two or three years ago I joined in and got down in the mud with everybody else. But then one day I had an epiphany. I realized I was only contributing to the un-civil behavior we were all decrying on the part of the loyal opposition and it served no useful purpose.

I also realized that we are ALL Americans and at the end of the day we've got to figure out how to cooperate and get along in order to get anything done in this country. The increasing toxicity of our political discourse is unhealthy and will only lead to more and more problems in the future.

I've tried to purge the hot-words and to discuss the issues at hand from my viewpoint without insulting my fellow posters. If a poster is offensive I "ignore" them rather than contribute to the on-going collapse festival that occurs daily on First Read and other threads.

So, if I posted what you have attributed to me above, it must of been quite some time back and probably when I was not quite myself for one reason or another. I have repented my evil, negative ways and call upon others to do the same, if for no other reason than the sake of our country.

Obama/Biden 2012

Obama/Biden 2012

I'm a Dem and still think Romney's heat from Bain and the Olympics is false fire. My bet is that none of the others on that stage could even come close to running the Olympics or making the business decisions necessary at Bain. I don't condone businesses that prey on other businesses, but it was legal and successful.

Now the matter of his tax returns? Him holding them back in combination with the hard-drive purchase BS says to a lot of us that there must be a smoking gun or two somewhere. And, if not, it still says that he operates with a level of secrecy that rivals the best of them... maybe another Nixon? He could lose on trust issues alone.

skip, LOL... I'm with ya, but I slip now and then... called them all "turds" the other day and got banned for the day. But we try.

Bruce-308647

I blame hate radio and FOX News for the current state of uncivil behavior in our politics and on this blog and it needs to stop.

Why do you say this, Skip? I watch both Fox and MSNBC and I can honestly say I see more closed-minded "hate speech" on MSNBC than I do on Fox. I believe that most liberals bash Fox but really have no idea what is actually on Fox.

Sorry Bruce, gotta side with skip on this one. I watch both channels all the time and the rancor on FOX seems to be turned up two or three times louder than MSNBC. There are good programs on both and there are "over-the-top" programs on both, but FOX is more... purposeful?... with intent to deceive?

Just my honest unbiased opinion as a former-Republican-from-the-corporate-world-turned-Democrat after the GOP left me. LOL

the question asked of Mitt; would you sign the defense bill, that Obama signed, allowing for imprisonment of American citizens without trial for up to life for any alleged (terrorist intent); he said, yes; we must rely on those in charge to act responsible, no one on the stage disagreed; we are under attack from Washington, from both sides of the isle; good God, has no one read the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES.

What wrong with Mitzi Ro-money? Why won't he release his tax returns? What does he have to hide? Has he been sending a lot or just a little money to his Mexican relatives? Does he have so many tax loopholes employed that he doesn't pay any taxes? Everyone knows he's rich, I'll betcha $10,000 his returns will show that? Is he too ashamed or to humble to show us his his returns? Come on Mr. Fat Cat, its show and tell time!

anon, per #1.26,

I'm going to slap your nonsense down again only because I feel like having a good daily KO. After which you get no more gems from me here.

The relevance is that people like Fresh, and you, complain about the 'richest' Americans, when in fact they themselves are extremely 'rich' by worldwide standards. That makes them guilty of the Deadly Sin of Envy.

Your assumption about mine is of course incorrect. I'm merely posing that people with big mouths should first practice what they preach before wrongly demanding it of others. I'm quite aware that your Greed (another Deadly Sin) allows you to want to keep all you make while demanding more from those who outgain you. Such is the inferior nature of those unwilling to openly compete in the markets of both work and ideas.

How's that canvas taste?

Again, it's not relevant that America is one of the richer countries in the world. That does not excuse the horrible wealth distribution that exists in the United States.

Saying "Oh it's so much worse in Swaziland" is simply irrelevant, since we are talking about the United States, not Swaziland. You are basically saying "It's OK if we steal money from you, because you still won't be in as bad condition as someone in Swaziland, so why don't we take away everything that ensures you aren't in poverty".

Like we didn't already know Romney is paying an effective tax rate of 15% like Warren Buffet. Aside from Romney's tax plan to give more breaks to the 1% like himself, does it really matter, any of this primary stupidity? Any candidate that supports Paul Ryan's privatization of Medicare is all we need to know, and that includes Romney.

Bruce-308647-- FOX Noise has problems far beyond spewing hate, specifically misinformation, withholding information, and sometimes reporting outright lies. This is well documented, and far more than MSNBC, which actually retracts errors. It is true that not all stories are reported by one news outlet, and why I get news from CNN, PBS, on-line, etc.

But stories not reported by agenices than FOX are not reported elswhere because of journalistic standards and inability to back the stories up with facts. That's your first clue the story is questionable, is when only FOX reports it. Facts are no concern to FOX. And you do know that FOX had to drop their tag-line of "fair and balanced." So stop with the "pious baloney," thank you.

Nerm_L -- ...We need to dump the 'free enterprise', 'free market', 'free trade' crapola and return to an economy governed by the principles of true capitalism.

Bottom line - when America works - everyone prospers. Rising tides do, indeed, lift all boats - equally. Removing the moral and ethical accountability (regulations) in our economy will only allow the immoral and unethical to prosper.

Here, here -- Well said!

wilsonaide -- Based on incorrect information and lack of reading/writing skills, apparently ignorance is bliss.

FreedomRingsLoud -- Based on your proliferation and lengthy posts, you have way too much time on your hands suggesting you are on an "entitlement" such as disability or Social Security.

Shaking my head-2479300 -- Based on your proclivity for conspiracy theory, you lack any credibility.

You right-wingers come into a forum such as this hoping to accomplish what exactly? To change hearts and minds or just to be agitators? If you aren't here for a sincere exchange of ideas, go back to FOX or NewsMax or what ever Echo Chamber you prefer. You are wasting space and reader's time with your obvious biases, and in some cases bigotry (StopTheMarxist-3864834, wow).

TruePatriot-445959

FreedomRingsLoud -- Based on your proliferation and lengthy posts, you have way too much time on your hands suggesting you are on an "entitlement" such as disability or Social Security.

Hmmmm, really.

Don't give up your day job, if you have one, your prognosticative ability is lacking. But then again, on the mighty Newsvine, it doesn't surprise me that you would assume that I am on some "entitlement". After all, these are the programs you hold in such regard even as they are collapsing our economy. I know, I know, entitlements are all paid for and stable to eternity. Right? It's all that mean "Military Industrial Complexes" Fault. Right? If not it must be the Repukelicans or GNOPer's fault. Right? Or maybe they "Corporations" fault. But, at the end of the day, when all else fails it HAS TO BE the rich people's fault. Those mean nasty wealthy. The Fat-cat's. The Fascists. The Koch brothers. Rush, Hannity, Beck, O'Reilly, Norquist and the Tooth-Fairy. Oh, and let's not forget the "Teabaggers". Of course 60 members Caucus with the TEA Party in the 435 member House, which is 1/2 of 1/3 of our 3 branches of government. Yes, I can see where it's easy for you Libbies to blame this omnipotent, all-powerful group. It couldn’t have anything to do with little uncle hairy Reed not allowing 24 different jobs bills from the house to even come up for debate. Let me see how did uncle Hairy so eloquently put it, “Dead on Arrival” or was it “Table it”? Now there’s some real Liberal compromise. No?

Anyone who has the time for all these proliferative and lengthy posts can't be a constructive member of society. Especially when he or she seems to disagree with your delusions of fascism, corporatism, wealth redistribution, theocracies and all other manner of bogeymen. Well, my good little indoctrinated Liberal friend I can reassure you I am NOT consuming any of your cherished entitlement or social program dollars. I am comfortably retired, well before the required age, because I did what you so fear, or should I say despise. I envisioned, created and built 5 different businesses. I sold them all, which I can proudly say are all still in business, and I sit on 3 of their Board of Directors. This took me 35 years to accomplish (I started my first business at 13, by the way). We employ over 2,700 people. We are in the health, energy and retail sectors of commerce. We have attrition rates below 3%, one of the lowest in all of these industries. We maintain a high level of delayering to improve our efficiency and costs. We, as have many other industries, decentralized with revenue gains in double figure percentages for the past 12 years.

Through the past 3 recessions, prior to our current recession, we hired. Today we are in a 22 month hiring freeze. Regulatory, tax and economic uncertainty here and in Europe has forced us to sit on revenue profits. Profits have begun shrinking due to recent regulatory changes from the current administration and effects of the Bush administration changes. Estimates of increased overhead costs of more than 12% due to these possible government actions have caused it all. We retain 3 accounting, legal and consulting firms to manage the morass of regulatory and tax changes that happen literally on a daily basis. The cost of expanding this and other overhead costs have forced us to stop any possible growth.

Although we are a large business we are still small compared to the real "mega-corporations" as you like to call them. I'm sure you use many of those mega corporations out of necessity and also convenience. The free-market gives you this benefit, but remember, your use of them is reason for their expansion. Walmart, GE, Ford, AT&T and others only respond to market forces, as do we. These market forces are being intruded more and more by government. One recent regulatory change in our energy sector has created a potential cost of over $3 million dollars with no benefit to our revenue stream or to the environmental concern the regulation supposedly affects. Who do you think will bear the brunt of that expense? I can guarantee you it won't be our company or our employees. It will be you, the consumer. As always, increased costs will be trickled-down to our customers. If there is no profit in the regulatory change we can't increase our profit-sharing, or ROI to investors, but we are forced to maintain our payrolls and expenses. The net gain is zero with increased cost to the private sector.

Oh, and guess what? We have used Venture Capitalists (GASP!!!!!!) twice with very successful results for both them and our companies.

I know you'll lump me and my businesses in with all those above mentioned bogeymen you Liberals so fear. That's OK. We understand. Progressivism has created your malaise, your fear, your envy. We know you have been programmed into believing that millionaire's just happened to be sitting in the right place at the right time when that Million Dollar Gift Certificate fell from the heavens right into their lap. They never work for it, it's not fair, the playing field isn't level, the rich don't pay their fair share, the middle class is getting screwed, poor people have a right to everybody else’s money, and of course capitalism should be replaced with a better system because the OWS says so. My question to you my poor misguided friend is. What should it be replaced with?

TruePatriot-445959 -- Based on your assessment is exactly why we need more people like me and other businessmen. We have to support all your entitlements and social programs that unfortunately if you're not already using them, someday my poor pathetic friend, you will.

Good luck and God Bless America.

Anyone who has the time for all these proliferative and lengthy posts can't be a constructive member of society.

...

your delusions of fascism, corporatism, wealth redistribution,

I rest my case.

Also:

(I started my first business at 13, by the way)

Right.

I will say this again: if Reaganomics works, why was Reagan the first person to increase the National Debt since Truman?

FreedomRingsLoud:

Since you are so big on pointing out that our economy is dragging because of social programs. Let's take a look here at what cutting COSTS for Corporate Welfare could also do for our economy:

End Big Oil and Big Gas Tax Breaks <-- Imagine that
2011-2015 savings: $80 billion (Taxpayers for Common Sense).
Big Oil has made almost $855 billion in profits in the past decade. There is no need to give such a profitable industry a tax break.

End Deferral of Taxes on Income of U.S.-Controlled Corporations Abroad
2011-2015 savings: $199 billion (Citizens for Tax Justice estimate).
Encourages off-shoring of work and capital.

End Accelerated Depreciation on Equipment
2011-2015 savings: $141 billion (CTJ estimate).
Accelerated depreciation can result in a very low, or even negative, tax rate on profits from a particular investment.

End Deduction for Domestic Manufacturing
2011-2015 savings: $76.7 billion (CTJ estimate).
Provides virtually no benefit to the economy and is blatant corporate welfare.

End Last-In, First-Out Accounting (LIFO)
2011-2015 savings: $24.2 billion (CTJ estimate).
Corporations use LIFO to hide their true profits.

Cut Subsidies to Big Agribusiness
2011-2020 savings: $52 billion (Taxpayers for Common Sense).
Small farms are disappearing while big agri-business racks up huge profits—with corporate welfare support.

Permit Government to Negotiate Drug Prices for Medicare.
Savings 2012-2021: $157.9 billion. (Congressional Progressive Caucus).
Barring government involvement is an indirect corporate subsidy.

End Tax Breaks For Drug Companies.
2011-2020 savings: $50 billion (estimated based on figures from Rep. Jerrold Nadler).
Stops a $5 billion-a year annual tax break for direct-to-consumer advertising. We should pay for drug companies to market to us?

Enact A Financial Crisis Responsibility Fee.
2012-2021 Savings: $70.9 billion (Congressional Progressive Caucus).
Imposed on largest banks as a repayment of corporate welfare extended via bank bailouts for financial crisis precipitated by banks.

Enact a Derivatives and Speculation Tax.
2012-2022 savings: $650 billion (Congressional Progressive Caucus).
Wall Street receives indirect corporate welfare/subsidies via a regulatory system and infrastructure investment for which it pays virtually nothing. A very tiny transactions tax will end the corporate welfare.

Oh and since you are SO BIG on military spending being a constitutional right: check this out as well:

www.workinglife.org/blogs/view_post.php?content_id=15190

Once again, social welfare programs are not a way of life in this country, but they are NOT the only things that are dragging down the US economy.

Oh, so now I'M the one who knows nothing. Well let me tell you this, DB Akron, I may not be the smartest person in the world, but I do know one thing: that trickle-down economics DOES NOT WORK. How the hell does taxing a rich guy's personal income cause him to stop creating jobs?? That may happen for investments (capital gains tax= too low), but he will mainly invest where there is big DEMAND. I find it weird how conservatives tout on their economic know-how but it takes "Communists" like me to tell them the truth. I don't care if me spouting off my big mouth is offensive. Maybe it will cause people to actually GIVE A DAMN at how the GOP is squeezing the middle class. And at least I know that taxing the wealthy has NOTHING to do with the creation of jobs. And Joe, you wanna know something?? I don't have a job. BECAUSE I'M NOT OLD ENOUGH TO HAVE ONE. Ever thought of that, Joe?? Ever thought an "innocent" member of the next generation is on to the destructive policies of the right wing?? I am pissed at how the economy collapsed, and I blame it because of CONSERVATIVE (note I didn't say Republican...) policies.

Freedom, in case you haven't heard, income inequality is on the rise. And the ONLY way to decrease that besides reforming education and social safety nets (which by the way require taxes) is to INCREASE revenue. I don't like how the feds have spent and borrowed my generation's future away, but you have to have at least some trust in your leaders. When debt grows to astronomical numbers, one must have some faith that their leaders will fix it (no matter how small). How do you expect the government to cut the debt: spending cuts?? That would be ECONOMIC SUICIDE. So revenue increases and spending cuts must be used. And are you saying do away with entitlements?? Millions of people rely on them for income, and even if you remove it for current retirees you'd screw in millions of Americans and could possibly lead to an increase in senior poverty? Or should we just let future Grandpa leave the house and fend for himself, even with his ailments? And I believe that Obama's stimulus plan was too focused on debt and mismanaged, but at least it pulled our nation out of the recession. It is reminiscent of the Keynesian economic philosophy, which I am a fan of (go ahead and mock that). And I would assume that taking away the Bush tax breaks for those making over $250,000 would net perhaps $700-800 billion over a decade, a pretty comparable sum. Add that with reforming the tax code (including your ideas of broadening the tax base and adding jobs) would contribute perhaps $1.2 trillion or more. I know that my plans are not perfect: I know that I'm not God. And I like some of your ideas about restoring exporting to our economy. But the middle class is shrinking, and the only way to keep wealth in the hands of the middle class is to strengthen safety nets, lower tax rates or increase wages, and improve the economy. But tax increases ARE necessary, because they DO increase revenues. Not by a lot compared to cumulative deficits, but still enough to get us on our way.

Obama Biden 2012

EXPORT-DRIVEN Economy 2012

You guys really put this much effort into a dumb argument on a comment board? And, you did this instead...of what?

ItsAboutTime-3704531

I agree.

Enact A Financial Crisis Responsibility Fee.

The simplest correction for this would have been to never have instituted TARP and let the biggest offenders fail. No further regulations would have been necessary. True Free-Market principles reward success and punish failure. When we allow it to get "Too big to fail" no amount of regulation will ever prevent the next group of math and economics geeks from Harvard, MIT, Berkley and Wharton's to find the latest "vehicle" to f**k the consumer.

I agree to eliminating ALL Tax incentives and subsidies (which are basically the same thing) for ALL industries. Again, a much simpler Flat or preferably Fair Tax would eliminate all these abuses and avoidances.

However, as much as these proposals will help, the massive amount of waste, fraud and abuse in our criminal government must be eliminated.

1. The federal government made at least $72 billion in improper payments in 2008.
2. Washington spends $92 billion on corporate welfare (excluding TARP) versus $71 billion on homeland security.
3. Washington spends $25 billion annually maintaining unused or vacant federal properties.
4. Government auditors spent the past five years examining all federal programs and found that 22 percent of them–costing taxpayers a total of $123 billion annually–fail to show any positive impact on the populations they serve.
5. The Congressional Budget Office published a “Budget Options” series identifying more than $100 billion in potential spending cuts.
6. Health care fraud is estimated to cost taxpayers more than $70 billion annually. A recent report per outgoing Director of CMS Donald Berwick estimates ur total health care system has 20-25% of WF&A.
7. The GAO recently reported that redundancy in our government costs us between $125 and $175 billion dollars a year.

These seven examples can save us over $6 TRILLION Dollars over 10 years!

This alone should make ALL Americans refuse any tax increases, rich or poor, or even better ANY tax payments unless government cleans its house.

Wow, I am glad to see we found something we can both agree upon. I know you support no welfare from the government, but sometimes, your posts are always focused on social programs only. Hence my post. Thanks for the comment and have a great evening.

People should be encouraged to listen to ALL DEBATES. However, one should turn off the TV and radio commentators who try so damn hard to develop their own herd of sheeps. It is about control much like how people like Sahra Palin is trying to be a Kings maker like that of Rush and Glen Beck...

It is just funny reading some of the idiotic comments that are posted without any attempt to do prior research...

Mitt is much smarter this time around. There is not a chance that he is going to belittle the not so rich TV viewers (vs his $10,000 bet with Perry). Mitt is not about to flaunt his 15% income tax bracket rate infront of other Republicans. Newt is right, but it is too late. Anyhow, Newt and Perry will fare no better with their tax bracket probably below 20%. It is still a far cry from other Republican supporter who are generally over 25%... lol

Are you going to watch the debate or celebrate the holiday?

exotic

But it's OK when the Democrats host a debate on MLK day? 2008???

exotix,

In case your history is weak let me remind you the first Republican President, Abraham Lincoln, is the person who abolished slavery in this country. I can't think of a more fitting time during MLK day to have a presidential debate by the party that ended slavery! By the way it was the Southern Democrats that wanted to force slavery on every state in the Union...this and no other issue resulted in the Civil War. If it was up to the Democrats they would still own slaves and Obama would never be President. A little true history should be injected once and a while in this party bashing don't you think?

...and the democrats filibustered the civil rights act of 1964.

lifelong well respected democrat robert byrd, who knows how many blacks were lynched because of robert byrds recruiting for the kkk.

exotix...

The Civil War was 150 years ago, none of those folks are alive anymore.

In case you forgot it was a REPUBLICAN president that freed the slaves.

Take the racist trash someplace else we are trying to pick a leader for four years.

Notsosure you like all people make the mistake of thinking slavery was the only issue in the civil war is this because that's what your liberal teachers taught you. Of course no liberal teacher would ever mention the X amendment and the way yankee factors kept most southern farmers even the rich ones working to pay off their factors and lucky if they made a profit at the end of the season. And no liberal teacher would tell you how yankee shipowners made their money in the slave and rum trade. All you yankees were angels in waiting right.

They all scare me to death!!! I can only hope the U.S. is sane and smart enough to re-elect Obama

Hey Notsosure10, your name is correct. Lincoln DID NOT end slavery in America--only in the secessionist states. It took YEARS after the Civil War for the last slave state holdouts (Union supporters, by the way), to have slavery ended. So, the Great Emancipator wasn't QUITE as advertized, but that's about par for Republicans, anyway.

Hunt, and all hope for a sane candidate for the Republicans, is gone.

Well there they go ... resident conservatives showing us the extent of their education about Lincoln ... I'd say about 5th grade ...

Lincoln was a moderate Republican hated by the *extreme right-wing Republicans* ... sound familiar with todays 2012 GOP / Tea Bag Prez wackadooz ? ... (and given you actually believe Republicans and Democrats at that time host any resemblance to those of today) ... proof of this was Lincolns' Gettburg Address as a *statement of America's dedication to the principles of nationalism, equal rights, liberty, and democracy*

Elevate yourselves to at least a modest education and do a Wiki on Lincoln ... then comeback and at least try to not act all foolish with revisionism you heard from Palin & Fatbo or a Beckerhead Blackboard ...

Is there any way to put a sock on it, Rick Perry? You keep saying that Obama has a "war"on Religion...Go back to read the amendments to the constitution...You MORON

How about Grinchs' *Obama is a Food-Stamp President* statement again ... not really racist given there are twice as many whites than blacks now on entitlements thanks to Bush and the neocons ...

How about this: In the Declaration of Independence as first written by Thomas Jefferson, there was a clause abolishing slavery. However, because of pressure, he was forced to delete the clause. a committee of five men who with their revising, also made a total of 80 changes during that period.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Thomas_Jefferson_and_the_declaration_of_independence#ixzz1jggRA6eb

"In case your history is weak let me remind you the first Republican President, Abraham Lincoln, is the person who "abolished slavery in this country."

Apples and ornges todays Republican party is the same as the old dixiecrats that used to be in the democrat party and are now in the Republican party. If Lincoln was alive today he would not even give this republican party a try.

In fact, Lincoln knew his countrymen so well, he actually wanted to basically buy an African country and deport all the Black population thereto. He foresaw the generations of systematic discrimination, oppression and suffering they would endure. THAT is NOT the thinking borne of modern conservative thought. If you want an apt comparison between then and now, look up John C. Calhoun of (where else) South Carolina. HE wrote that not only should slavery NOT be abolished, but EXTENDED to the poor white and immigrant northern factory workers. THAT is the true ancestor of the modern GOP, not Lincoln.

"Food Stamp president" is the exact same type of code language used by Ronnie Raygun with his "welfare queen" statements. It is a sick combination of blaming the poor for poverty, and racism, which has been a constant in GOP politics since Nixon used the fear of drugs to institute an era of mass imprisonment, which disproportionately affects the underclass and minority communities. The dots can be filled in by many smaller items like Willie Horton, so that the line of racism and divide-and-conquer politics becomes clear and unavoidable.

Eisenhower sent federal troops to Arkansas to enforce the Supreme Court's decision on Brown V. BOE against the Arkansas National Guard blockade. Any one of these clown candidates would send troops to a state to enforce that state's right to be dysfunctional and barbaric, Supreme Court be damned.

It would be far easier for the empire to rule over 310Million islands than a united nation of 310Million interconnected, cooperating citizens. Against such a force, no empire could long endure. THAT is the ultimate goal of the corporatist whores of the GOP. All the social wedge issues are little more than a ruse to keep the peasants occupied.

wallstreet paid millions to obama in 08.

...and they got it all back, and then some.

And now Wallstreet is paying millions to Mittens.

Who signed TARP keck ? Yeah GW did remember him ? Or do you have that same amnesia that the rest of the establishment GOP have. Let me refresh your memory ... he's the worst President since Grant.

Any other mute, debunked GOP talking points you want to cover ?

and goldman sachs is still giving president obama 500k for his re-election.

...it goes both ways, yes ?

goldman sachs gave obama 790k in 2008.

yeah....let me refresh yours.

obama advocated TARP during the campaign too. but...dont let me ruin your "blame bush" mentality

LOL like they could give money to Bush right now. Why do think he isn't stumping for GOP hopefuls in this election or the last ... oh that's right he's political suicide .

LOL...i'm actually hoping bush43 endorses obama pretty soon.

"they actually believe that one of them can unseat a incumbent president?"

Many of the people who voted for Obama the first time will not vote for him again. They are still mad that they did not get their direct Obama handouts/stimulus checks. Yes the ones that are/have been living on Govt. subsidies for most of their lives, they all thought that Obama was going to hand them the world on a silver platter...

Is there any way to make these 5 more sanctimonious? I am surprised that they did not say a prayer at the beginning of the "debate"

Not that prayer is bad...They all are forgetting that we have SEPARATION of church and State...They are turning this nation into a Christian TALIBAN

Wall St decides who wins in November. Both Romney and Obama represent Wall St. Wall St has gotten their's since 1980. It is unlikely anything changes. Yea, the last guy sucked us in with "change".

Wall St has always been known for hedging its bets. Democracy--we the people--is undermined when Big Money is allowed to determine who's running, who gets nominated, and who'll we vote for. Both Dems & Repubs are corrupt...but Repubs are terrifying. Why they actually have faith in insurance companies and believe that a health insurer will always do the right thing by the people. Just like banks. I don 't understand how they can talk about small govt and cutting medicare & social security but still hand out trillions to banks, corporations, and foreign countries.

The mill shut down 4 years after Romney left Bain. The Unions refused to negotiate lower wages when China started dumping steel products in 1995 and Clinton refused to put tariffs on the Chinese steel. During this time over 40 steel mills across the U.S. shut down. China was paying its steel workers $.64 an hour and the steel mill was paying its unionized workers $21.12 plus benefits. Clinton refused to put tariffs on the Chinese Steel that was imported into the U.S. Bush put on tariffs in 2002.

This is the location of the steel mill in Georgetown, formerly known as Georgetown Steel.
In 2003, the mill shut down due to economic competition with China, among other factors. The mill was purchsed by the former International Steel Group (ISG), who reopened the mill. ISG was then purchased in 2005 by Mittal, who subsequently merged with Arcelor. It is now named ArcelorMittal Steel.
The steel mill was established in 1969 in Georgetown, South Carolina and operates in the wire rod sector of the steel industry. US shipments of wire rod are about 6 million tons per year and accounts for 5% of the total US steel market. The mill sells primarily to domestic wire drawers that process wire rod into products for diverse end use applications, including the automotive, construction, industrial and consumer industries.
The plant operates two electric arc furnaces and is capable of producing 1 million tons of liquid steel annually and 750,000 tons of wire rod.
1219 Front St., Georgetown, SC 29442

Wall St decides who wins in November

No warprofiteer YOU DO, If you look carefully at each candidates records and actions. Ignore the non-approved messages for the most part. They take facts or half-facts and fill in the color of their choice.

We have been lied to so bad about businesses. I'l give you one good Example Wall Street.

Yes, there are bad ones and there are good ones. What every business wants is an environment where they can make money. Accept that some will make money, if that wasn't there, none of them would go into business. If none of them go into business we revert back to building homes caves, mud brush, whatever we can find, digging with crude stone tools, having no doctors to treat us when we are ill.

Wall street took a beating with the Collapse under Bush. A few got bailed out because Pausen and Benanke convinced both Bush and Congress that the entire financial system would collapse. Both Democrats and Republicans bought the whole line.

In 2008, not trusting the Republicans to maintain a growing economy, they put the bulk of their money on Obama - even though he was saying evil things about them. Now we are in 2012, and the economy still isn't doing so well, they are switching back to the Republicans.

Let me give you one other little hint about business. If they intend or need to do work for the government, they will give money to both parties. Enough experienced business people know that if you are not on the donation list, you really do have less of a chance to get work from the government.

@ wilsonaide: The reason we lost our steel manufacturing is because Reagan deregulated it. This country has gone to hell in a handbasket ever since.

William

Of these 5, they actually believe that one of them can unseat a incumbent president?

3 of them, no problem. The other two might, but it would be a struggle.

Obama's approval is 1 point above Jimmy Carter's at this time. Jimmy Carter lost big. For him to get re-elected he must get that approval above 48%. It could happen, but one more big turndown and it isn't going to happen unless he makes a deal with the devil.

Hundreds of millions. Billions. Whatever it takes.

It was better than most debates, and helped to clarify each candidates position. I may not like some of those positions, and I generally do not like how FOX plays with the facts, but tonight I appreciated a relatively well run debate where each candidate had a chance to lay out their ideas.

Maybe I need a drink; Ron Paul is making too much sense. Perry is a joke. Gingrich was very smooth tonight, but anyone who remembers what he has said and done over the last 20 years knows it was all hot air and lies. He took credit for everything everyone else did in he last 30 years, while not accepting any responsibility for all of his screw-ups. His 'facts' were bull; the only relevant fact is that he is a lobbyist that made millions from the mortgage industry and others; he fiddled while Rome burned and thinks nobody saw. Santorum sounded good, but then so did Adolf in the 30s. Mitt played defense all night; we'll see how well that plays out.

Folks who see a difference between Bush policy and Obama policy really should get their eyes checked.

Why was Rick Perry even allowed on that stage? I mean he got about as many votes as Vermin Supreme did in NH, but yet he gets more air time than Ron Paul! WTF? If they are gonna waste air time on someone who does not have a chance they should invite Vermin to the debate stage. He would be much more entertaing than Rick Perry and probably has a better chance of winning than Rick. Ron Paul 2012!

Why is there no article on MSNBC about Colbert's political advertising in Georgia: Nothing on CNN either? They don't want to help their competitors, whether it's news or not.

Jungleboogie & DB Akron - I like your guys open-mindedness and honesty, most on here just want to shout about their team regardless of substance, be careful what you say to posters like Toasty though he gets easily offended when you call him on his rhetoric. I agree fully that there is not much difference between Bush & Obama, and for that matter Romney either. I would hope Ron Paul is for real but he has not had to answer the critics as of yet. I would like to see how he would do under the intense pressure he would get from both parties..maybe he is the real hope & change we are looking for. I don't know, just my opinion.

Wilson...It may have been 4 years after Romney left Bain. But, as we all know, contracts and deals take 4 years or more to put into action. Romney likes to launder what a venture capital group does. The bottom line is that they buy and sell companies. So when Romney tries to make the claim he is "helping companies increase their revenues", it's a shady way of saying he helped the big companies latch onto small and medium size businesses in order to increase Corporation profits through hostile buyouts and takeovers. The reality is that every small or medium sized business Romney sold, created unemployment. How many corporations who buy up lesser companies retain employees? The whole idea is to downsize, outsource or offshore so that no employee benefits make a dent in corporate profits. The name of the game is venture capitalism with no real economic benefit to the US. Especially,when corporations are Too Big To Fail and do and Too Rich to Change without taxpayers' ante to bail them out.

Yes the ones that are/have been living on Govt. subsidies for most of their lives, they all thought that Obama was going to hand them the world on a silver platter.

And that group you love to hate is the LEAST likely group to vote in ANY election. The people you think won't show up on election day never did to begin with. It was college students who showed up, and who likely will not for 2012. They are the ones most disappointed, when they saw that D.C. cannot be changed.

For him to get re-elected he must get that approval above 48%.

That is only true if there is a candidate in the GOP who could do what Reagan did. He was a charismatic cowboy; the Great Communicator, a man people wanted to love. The times were dour, and Carter was dour, too. After all, he lectured Americans on their growing materialism in a national, Prime Time speech. The people hated Carter, because he was the face of a discouraged America. Never mind that Reagan probably made the Iranians an offer they couldn't refuse, thus Carter was doomed either way.

Today, the GOP is totally bereft of any candidate that can conjure images of that Shining City on the Hill, where it's Morning in America. They just don't have it. Instead, they offer hatred and greed as the best we can be, and people just can't get excited about that. Jesus is not running, nor is he registered to vote. People want and need a reason to be optimistic, and the GOP is not offering that. More tax cuts and more deregulation aren't gonna wash this time. Our military is unparallelled in the world, so they can't use that, either.

Simple demonization of the man in the Oval Office is not a reason for most people to get up and go vote. The Neocon mojo has run its course. So if any of these miscreants who have a hard time relating to ordinary Americans is the best the GOP can come up with, I am left to believe that they are intentionally throwing the election - just like with McCain; just like with Dole.

Gingrich is a PHd in history. A Phd in anything starts with an IQ of 140. When you can comprehend that much it often becomes difficult to not sound condescenting, because you will have a hand full of reasons why or why not to do something, when most people do well to handle 1 or 2 reasons.

Instead of looking to for a reason to disagree with him - listen to him. You might learn something. He brings up stuff off the top of his head, that is relevant, that I have forgotten from years ago.

One other distinction here. Being intelligent, doesn't mean you make common sense decisions - as people hopefully are learning again with Obama. (I remember Carter - he too was supposed to be extremly intelligent).

DB: I'm scratching my head trying to think of one PhD program that requires a person to rank on an IQ test, and am then trying to figure out how an obscure and flawed average regarding PhD IQ scores is relevant here. By that same study, every elected official and CEO would have an IQ north of 132 - because that's the supposed average. You have no idea what his IQ actually is. Also, in what world is every intelligent person an @!$%#?

I'm not arguing that Newt doesn't have some valid points, but he is also so blinded by his own ego and pompous view of the world that he is out of touch and misses the boat on plenty. And just because he "brings up stuff off the top of his head.....that you have forgotten from years ago" can just as easily be attributed to the fact that he has worked in Washington for decades, and I'm assuming you haven't. You could probably bring up plenty that he would be clueless on, too.

Bush is gone. Get over it.

she was talking about the obama regime.

and she can press buttons on a keyboard? lol!

...so can you.

and ?

LOL

Yeah! When they get tired of tearing each other apart, then they start tearing Obama. It is funny listening to Mitt Romney about not giving people a Blank "check" and saying that bankruptcy is "good" for industries.

Good for who? for you and your wall street group of friends? OfCourse B****h about the regulations...You want to take it ALL...We don't have any Mitt...You and your friends in Wall Street already have it all...What, do you want? our dirty underwear as well?

...and there is the racism.

Moderates and Republicans alike are ignorant as to how the world works. We are in debt because of the policies accrued to the Financial sector being deregulated. It is corporate in nature, and the risk was and is socialized unto American tax payers. Corporations were created to avoid liability / accountability. Investment went viral after 1980 and the two married. Our policies thru the past 30 years of all moderate and Republican administrations have served this master well. 2012 will be no different. We have a failed system, systemic in that American Capitalism is unsustainable, superceding all other points of debate. we need a sever overhaul of our type of capitalism. Guaranteed that other emerging nations will not and can not adopt our type. Our leaders continue to avoid the issue. The Eu pays the price of greed and ignorance, the US tax payer further bares the burden.

Yeah cause democrats are so much better. Everybody knows that if you throw enough money at something, the democrats vote could be bought. Look at the SOPA. If you see how much democrats got in exchange for their vote, you would be amazed. Incidently I also saw how much democrats recieved in money for the campaingn compared to that of the republicans. Party of the 99%, my a@@! If any of you want to see where the money went, look at the DEMOCRATIC campaigns. It's only stupid people who think democrats are representing the poor!

If you want a moderate or a libertarian run one but he's not likely to be part of the republican primary debate process. It is the party primary process after all not the election.

It isn't fair that three of the 50 states get to seal our fate.

Here's one for you Mitt has blood relatives in two towns in northern Mexico what if he is elected. That would mean that his relatives would be possible cartel targets to use against the presidency. They live there because their ancestor left the country rather than follow US laws. Whose sons are going to have to save their butts?

Presidents are selected, not elected. FDR

Wow, Irespond, that is one of the most hate-filled ignorant rampages on here tonight out of the several to choose from.

Many people who are supportive of getting rid of the DoE are interested in preserving the Constitution--education is not an enumerated power of the national government.

Wow, Irespond, that is one of the most hate-filled ignorant rampages on here tonight out of the several to choose from.

The truth hurts....

Did anybody listen to Mitt Romney sttutering when they asked him about his taxes? Er Er Er Er ER ...Ha HA HA What a hypocrite! He does not want to show how much he DOES NOT PAY TAXES. or else he is going to "cook" the books....

really, REALLY? that's exactly what is wrong, he's giving them something, is that what your looking fro too? A nice big hand out?

a handout?... for hard work?... that isn't a handout

why work hard if you get a hand out either way

really,

Why work hard if you are going to get laid off either way? Ever heard of the Jack Welsh (GE) way of doing things? He taught companies how to rule by intimidation so no matter how stellar of an employee you were, it really wouldn't make a hill of beans difference because after 5 yrs or so you were "toast." How's that for getting the most out of your employees??

Oh yeah, you bring up Neutron Jack. In earning my MBA, one sad truth I learned is how widespread the community of sociopaths is, who run American business. These people have absolutely no regard for the people, only the numbers. They have absolutely no concept of "corporate citizenship." It is not because they are evil; far from it. They simply have no emotional connection to their actions, whether good or bad for the community or nation.

Business schools long ago adopted Friedman's view of what the mission and obligations of business are, and being a good citizen simply does not get into the equation. The good of the nation does not show up anywhere on the balance sheet, the 10k or the share value on the market. It is, therefore, irrelevant to people at the top.

Shareholders can, and have made fortunes on selling America down the river. That is why any system based on unbridled greed and "free" markets will fail as surely as centrally planned economies did. Neither extreme on the economic spectrum can survive the internal contradictions each has within.

I think Gingrich's comments regarding nominating a moderate from the liberal wing of the republican party

There is no liberal wing in the GOP. There is only a varying degree of conservatism, divided between economic and social hues. Most centrist Republicans have been driven off by hard-liners in either or both of the 2 groups, social and economic.

No doubt there are many moderate voters registered as Republican, but their affiliation is largely a matter of tradition, not as a matter of the mainstream of current GOP leadership thought. Any reasonable and comprehensive study of the Reagan Administration would reveal many actions and positions that would have ol' Ronnie thrown out of the primary today. Yet, he is still held up as a conservative's conservative. That is a nostalgic joke, not today's reality.

Such as...?

Karen C. maybe the left and right would rather not even make Ron Paul significant, maybe he would hold his own. I sure would like to know also but I think repub's & dem's are afraid of what they might have to contend with if he passes the sniff test. Better for them to let the sleeping dog sleep.

WHAT? those jobs are only in the newspaper. not real ones like people really need.

Actually, they're all worse than the idiot we have now. They are all a LOT worse.

That's like me saying with a name like Johansen, your ancestors were all Aryans.

Any of them is better than the idiot we have now.

Yeah! Let'go back to the "smart "days when we had George W. Bush.... But you are right! Any of these will make George Bush look SMART

Besides Dr. Paul, none of them are better.

Unemployment 4.5% With Bush----- Obama unemployment 8.7% ( could actually be 20-25%)

gas $ 1.87 Bushes last day----- $3.50+ with the genius

Black unemployment 11.9 % W/B ----- 15.7% with the Big O (zero)

10 Trillion debt when Bush left------ 16 Trillion and counting with O

Happy MLK day everyone.....He actually paved the way for this!!!!

Okay, let me break down your argument piece by piece:

For your unemployment figures, you are not counting the fact that Bush's presidency ended literally with a bang: the recession. Unemployment nearly doubled; hundreds of thousands of jobs were shed every month, and Bush did nothing to fix this: Obama did. Obama issued the stimulus, and after several months the effects kicked in, as the economy began adding more private sector jobs (while government jobs were being lost).

As for gas, the president has no control over gas prices. Nor does the government, for that matter. Oil prices depend on two things: supply and demand, and speculation. Market investors speculate that prices will go up due to stock data: Iran threatening to blockade Strait of Hormuz, civil war in Saudi Arabia, etc. And your statement is lacking one factor: in the summer of 2008, there was a spike in oil prices, sending gas to over $4.40 a gallon. I guess you could blame Bush for that, right chap??

Black unemployment is a tough one, but then again, you have to refer to the recession. The recession hit an already impoverished African American community with fervor, sending unemployment rates soaring. While Obama could have targeted job creation with preferences for the African American community, it would be very difficult for a black man to work for helping blacks get out of poverty due to publicity and racial tensions. Plus the jobs bill that he offered in September of 2011 could have created 2 million jobs and could have at least cut unemployment by among all Americans, including blacks. But the GOP said no, so I guess you could blame the high unemployment rates on the obstructionist Tea Party in Congress.

Now the debt issue is the easiest one to tackle but the hardest to explain to hard-headed neocons. Remember, Bush came into office with a surplus. He could have used that to decrease the debt or make the surplus a real one without SS funds by reforming the tax code and/or cutting spending. Unfortunately, he used that surplus (and America's line of credit) to fund a huge tax cut and a ruinous Iraq War, not to mention the unpaid Medicare Part D plan. He doubled the debt (typical Republicans), and although he had a relatively small $454 billion deficit in 2008, the recession ballooned that to $1.4 trillion. And with a trillion dollar deficit each year of Obama's presidency, the debt is naturally going to skyrocket. Obama could have tried to balance the budget at the beginning of his term, but he was already focused on getting the stimulus and reversing the recession. Plus cutting spending and/or raising taxes during the recession would have screwed up the economy even longer. He did offer a balanced plan to cut the debt by $4 trillion over 12 years (small, but still a good start), but the GOP shot it down when they found that it was 25% revenue increases and 75% spending cuts.

Essentially, your argument is primitive and narrow-minded. Try not to use conservative fodder and seek the truth. Remember, the truth shall set you free.

Happy MLK day everyone...hopefully Obama will still be in the White House and be able to celebrate a continuing recovery with his Democratic counterparts in control of Congress!!!!

OBAMA BIDEN 2012

TEA PARTY/GOP EXTINCT 2012

DEMOCRAT CONGRESS 2012

INCOME EQUALITY IN AMERICA 2012

It worries me that others cannot see this.

Bush unemployment when he took office was around 4.3 percent when he left it was 7.8 percent. Just want to get the facts straight.

hmm, its the obama that has cut social security...not republicans.

bush listened to lots of democrats as well...telling americans that sadaam had made tons of anthrax, joe biden, who is now our vice president, apparently lied to all of us in the 90s.

why ?

why did senator diane feinstein say we needed to take sadaam out in 1998 ?

these were democrats who said sadaam was "enemy #1" for both clinton terms.....clinton put sanctions against sadaam husein that ultimately killed 1 million iraqis from 1993-2000, according to the un.

yes, thousands of american casualties were not worth "getting rid of sadaam" in the way we did....but the democrats said that we had to (the regime change act of 1998) which clinton signed.

the left forgets so much about "containing sadaam".....1 trillion dollars was spent from 1993-2000 just containing him.

Good post john. Keck and the rest are a lost cause when it comes to truth or even facts coming close to the truth. Ignorance will eventually bring this Country to Her knees.

No keck nobody cut SS there just hasn't been a COLA in years like there will be this year. And after 50 years I am tired of governments playing at war like a game where no one wins and no one loses except the poor dog face who has to go boots on the ground. He loses,his family loses and the game goes on.

John, nice summation, but you can't argue with keck, he is in his own little make believe world where history is selective and and facts are either deeply hidden or severely distorted.

yes bluecat....it's called "research"...."bill clinton and the UN sanctions against iraq for WMD program"...."clinton nsa adviser says "sadaam training al qeada in WMDs"

...you can look them up, and yes, it did happen.

...or i am some kind of wizard that has the ability to time travel

you pick bluecat.

John, you do make some good points. As a Republican I can tell you that most of us want the same things you list and most of us are not part of the wealthy elite. In fact, I've never bought into that party=class bull because I grew up in a backward midwestern town where the elites running everything are Democrats.

At any rate, the jobs that are overseas will not "come back" until: (1) American workers are willing to work for a competitive wage (no, I don't mean the extreme low wages realized in developing countries)--Americans have a skewed sense of what their labor is worth. It may sound harsh, but it's just not going to happen when producing in the US costs $20 per unit and producing somewhere else costs $6. -or-(2) the increasing standard of living makes overseas workers demand a wage closer to what Americans were earning and close that cost gap. The second part of the equation is that American consumers demand cheap, mass-produced crap. We all flock like sheep to MegaMart and demand $5 DVDs from a big bin and $2 flip-flops--where are you going to find an American company that can produce at those retail prices?

Simple economics.

School 'em keck!

You can time travel keck?

Who wins the Super Bowl, for the next 50 years?

I'm gonna win me some $$$$filthy lucre$$$$$$

in 50 years the oregon ducks will be a pro NFL team and will win against Green bay 4-6 in overtime

Cha-Ching! Thank you!

Why Keck, you will convince everyone there is a neo-lib establishment in the Democrat party just as a neo-con establishment in the Republican party.

Next thing we know, you will prove the Clintonistas are just as bloodthirsty as a Cheney or Wolfowitz.

Bravo!

Keck the Oregon Duck thing was hilarious! But truth is the Niners are gonna win the Super Bowl this year for all you bettors out there looking to cash in on a hot tip.

obama is a failed president

...and joe biden is.......lol, joe biden

Out with Obama in 2012

Obama 2012.

Keck, typical right-wing BS. Obama fixed this economy, created millions of jobs, and has shown political maturity in a place devoid of any sense of duty. The only fact that backs up your argument is that Obama hasn't reached his administration's true potential because of the GOP obstructionists.

And dobi, cut the crap. OBAMA BIDEN 2012. If you can't bother to research facts to defend your argument, than your arguments are pointless and inaccurate.

By the way, dobi, still waiting for that list of companies. Come on, play the man, dobi; we shall this day light such a candle, by God's grace, in America, as I trust shall never be put out.

OBAMA BIDEN 2012

GOP EXTINCT 2012

actually since obama took office america has lost 2 million jobs (according to the u.s. labor dept)

those pesky little facts get in the way of your propaganda ?

oh...too bad.

Here is the link with graph, www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdfSimilar here is the labor report summary for Dec. 2011,"

Nonfarm payroll employment

rose by 200,000 in December, and the unemployment rate , at 8.5

percent, continued to trend down, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. Job gains occurred

in transportation and warehousing, retail trade, manufacturing, health care, and mining..

Keckmakes his own rules.

For you who do not like Obama, how does one wreck an economy that was the worst one since the depression? The GOP had plenty of time while in control to start anything they wanted. And they sure did. Are they still blaming the Dems for what they did for almost a decade. It makes no sense. If tax cuts did not work for 10 years why was Obama forced to extend them all? And the Dodd/Frank bill which they hate caused the federal reserve audit which showed 16 trillion dollars started going to foreign govs in 2007 and continued. No wonder McCain thought everything was fine and then suddenly it wasn't. Anyone else find that strange? I think the nogooders almost got caught with their pants down.But not quite. They only caused the housing and financial disaster. I think a new slogan for 2012 should be people use some common sense. When something doesn't seem right it isn't. And the people causing the disaster is Nov 2008 which started years before should be punished. And revealed. the republicans can yap all day but the economy was awful, Obama has made it better and constantly tried to do more. What he got into was much different than he ever thought it would be. But we should be thanking and commending him instead of what the ungrateful people on the other side are doing. When will they wake up? Spending does not equal socialism. Or communism. But trying to buy influence and using it does.

according to the labor dept we have lost 2 million jobs since 2009.

...maybe the labor dept is lying.

If Romney became president, would he appoint ambassadors or send missionaries?

When and if Romney shows his income records, I feel it will probably shock people for it will show he paid little to no taxes compared to average Americans and that he donated more money tho the Mormon church than most Americans will ever make in a life time...

I think it's ten percent of a Mormons income that goes to the church... WOW!

Have you looked at some of their supporters? I don't think you have to pass a mental evaluation to vote.

You mispelled mormons.

Ron Paul our last hope

how could these 'morons' as you called them help ruin the country when they haven't even been elected to do anything yet!

what ?! obama is speaking now ?

Funny, they're ALL losing to him in the polls.

Ron Paul has no pulse - he died a long time ago. Sorry.

I find it funny how President Obama and every GOP candidate is starting to adopt Dr. Paul's platform. I also find it funny how only Dr. Paul knew the difference between the military and defense.

I gave $$$ money to Dr. Paul's campaign. I also threw some money to Newt because Romney has got to go as a candidate. I mean, even Newt has more ideas and passion than Romney.

Obama is going to destroy Romney in debates and on the trail. Romney looked like a floundering fish out of water last night. But I guess the mainstream press is going to say how good he looks because he's Rove's candidate.

Go Ron Paul! I think he's going to get the nomination.

AARP mom, I agree with you about Romney. He represents a main element of what went wrong with our economy, the destruction of our well paying production based jobs and sucking out US equity and sending it to Asia. Basically he helped create the main impediments to growth — the gaping trade deficit with China and self-destructive corporate-outsourcing hysteria. Note that the companies he proudly points out he saved and are thriving are all retail companies that they ensured remained operational to sale Asia's goods to us via over extended credit. The biggest crime is that Bain unlike companies in German took no effort to reeducate and retrain those workers whose jobs went to Asia so that would continue to have productive lives. Guess that fake housing/credit bubble that only produced service and labor jobs and placed people more in debt was suppose to replace the jobs lost to Asia. Yeah, that plan, which created $162 trillion in fake worthless credit default swaps, worked for about a decade until it blew up in our faces. I pray to God each day that people open their eyes and see thru his crap. Everytime I see that big grin on his face while he thinks, "these idiots are buying this," I want to smack it right off him. LOL This is not coming from a liberal demagogue, but someone with an MBA who successfully worked in accounting and finance for 30 years.

AARP mom, I agree with you about Romney. He represents a main element of what went wrong with our economy, the destruction of our well paying production based jobs and sucking out US equity and sending it to Asia. Basically he helped create the main impediments to growth — the gaping trade deficit with China and self-destructive corporate-outsourcing hysteria. Note that the companies he proudly points out he saved and are thriving are all retail companies that they ensured remained operational to sale Asia's goods to us via over extended credit. The biggest crime is that Bain unlike companies in German took no effort to reeducate and retrain those workers whose jobs went to Asia so that would continue to have productive lives. Guess that fake housing/credit bubble that only produced service and labor jobs and placed people more in debt was suppose to replace the jobs lost to Asia. Yeah, that plan, which created $162 trillion in fake worthless credit default swaps, worked for about a decade until it blew up in our faces. I pray to God each day that people open their eyes and see thru his crap. Everytime I see that big grin on his face while he thinks, "these idiots are buying this," I want to smack it right off him. LOL This is not coming from a liberal demagogue, but someone with an MBA who successfully worked in accounting and finance for 30 years.

Well I love the first amendment but I fear it will not last in the hands of the liberals who only want it when it suits their side. When I see liberals defend first amendment rights for all including those christian teabag republicans kids then I will believe in your party again. An independent who left the Democratic party after it got hijacked by overbearing atheistic far left dictators.

Actually,it's the Christian Right that is itching for the big clamp-down on rights and freedoms.

Really? Bush and Obama are not members of the Christian right, and they have kindly done away with most of our civil liberties haven't they. Yeah Bush catered to them, but he wasn't one of them.

Right on lonereb

The mill shut down 4 years after Romney left Bain. The Unions refused to negotiate lower wages when China started dumping steel products in 1995 and Clinton refused to put tariffs on the Chinese steel. During this time over 40 steel mills across the U.S. shut down. China was paying its steel workers $.64 an hour and the steel mill was paying its unionized workers $21.12 plus benefits. Clinton refused to put tariffs on the Chinese Steel that was imported into the U.S. Bush put on tariffs in 2002.

This is the location of the steel mill in Georgetown, formerly known as Georgetown Steel.
In 2003, the mill shut down due to economic competition with China, among other factors. The mill was purchsed by the former International Steel Group (ISG), who reopened the mill. ISG was then purchased in 2005 by Mittal, who subsequently merged with Arcelor. It is now named ArcelorMittal Steel.
The steel mill was established in 1969 in Georgetown, South Carolina and operates in the wire rod sector of the steel industry. US shipments of wire rod are about 6 million tons per year and accounts for 5% of the total US steel market. The mill sells primarily to domestic wire drawers that process wire rod into products for diverse end use applications, including the automotive, construction, industrial and consumer industries.
The plant operates two electric arc furnaces and is capable of producing 1 million tons of liquid steel annually and 750,000 tons of wire rod.
1219 Front St., Georgetown, SC 29442

Indigo FTW !! So much truth !

And lonereb you complain about "liberals" and the first amendment but fail to realize it is the right wing of this country that have nothing more in mind than turning it into the same oppressive theocracy as what you find in Iran.

Think before you type !

Bravo, Indigo Halo. So succinctly put! The current sorry batch of Republicans are echoing the corporatist/evangelicals' upside-down interpretation of the First Amendment and also raging against government involvement in corporate doings while clamoring for MORE government control over our private lives!

Soon we'll see churches named after corporations and robber barons elevated to sainthood...

Loner: It wasn't liberals that authored Prop-8. It wasn't liberals that keep trying to enact "personhood" laws that elevate a zygote to the status of fully-evolved human being. (Oh, and the side effect of these laws is that a woman can now be charged with murder if she has a miscarriage. Good one, conservatives!) And your poster boy for the Religious Right (Rick Santorum) said a couple of weeks ago that the Constitution doesn't grant any citizen any measure of provacy whatsoever. He also wantssex regulated so that it is used solely for reproduction and NOT any kind of enjoyment. The current crop of GOP candidates want Bible Law to replace secular law.

If you listened carefully to Santorum this past week, he's a social engineer. I don't know any American who wants some PA Twerp to tell them how to behave. His bossy, autocratic, narrow-mindedness is a turn off. Gingrich is too long in the tooth and one of those who went around criticizing protestors, hippies and the entire great unwashed masses of the boomer generation because, he like Rove, was part of the 1% with nary a care in the world Big Momma and Big Daddah couldn't take care of for him. Forget Perry, the guy can't utter a sentence that doesn't have the word "Texas" in it. Sorry, but a president doesn't pander to one state only.

As for Ron Paul, this is his political swan song. A Libertarian down to his littlest toe cloaked in the Republican mantle just to get to the White House shows drive and ambition of the wrong kind.

The reality is that Rommelney is an elitist. It's why in his NBC interview recently he made the claim that the 99% are complaining about the wealthy because of "envy". Meanwhile, he overlooks the 46 million Americans now living in the povery his Bain Consulting helped create.

Do yourselves a favor. Vote for a president...not another CEO. How is putting a CEO in the White House going to change the Too Big To Fail and TOOOOOOO Rich To Change 1% who love others to help them become wealthy until it's payback time. Sorry, if you involve employees, consumers and taxpayers in helping you become wealthy, the minute you do that YOU OWE. You owe for the huge volume of infrastructure and government services you use. Greed has been allowed to become a virtue instead of the dirty, rotten, slimeball vice it really is.

To the steel mill issue-cheap chinese steel means cheaper everything (cars, appliances, buildings, etc) so 300 million US consumers tangibly benefit, and every US industry that uses steel (that's a lot of them) can reap bigger profits and pay more American workers, as well as be competitive in the international export market.

So just about everyone in the US wins when your US steel mill shuts down. I feel badly for the guys who need to be retrained and the towns that lost the mills, but I'd rather those guys retrain than 300 million US consumers pay to subsidize a handful of uncompetitive US steel mills, and jobs be lost across the entire US economy.

Healthy economies are dynamic, so you're always going to have people hurt by change. Adapt.

Jeffrey, if that's your real name, put the bong down and back away from the computer, you are stoned and not aware of what you're typing.

If you attach a numerical significance to Dooms Day Party you come up with 5,280...the number of feet in a mile which signifies that we only have one mile left before Dooms Day. So, if you want to live - stop walking. And, if you do walk a mile, you're only hope is to walk BACKWARDS for a mile. Otherwise, by November of 2012, a republikan will surely get elected and we will all die choking on our own vomit - and unemployed.

Bushs fuzzy math.

If you add the day, the month and the year together you actually get 2043.