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Darren Hauck / REUTERS
Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker during a news conference at the state Capitol in Madison, Wisc., Feb. 25, 2011.
As he marks his first anniversary as governor of Wisconsin, Scott Walker has accomplished what Republican presidential contenders Mitt Romney, Rick Santorum, Rick Perry and Ron Paul haven’t in their collective decades in politics: enacted two fundamental conservative policy changes in a traditionally Democratic-leaning state.
Walker, who spoke in Washington Thursday at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank, signed into law last year a measure that abolished most collective bargaining rights for most public employees and required them to pay a greater share of their pension and health care costs.
“Collective bargaining in the public sector is not a right,” Walker said Thursday. “It is an expensive entitlement.”
He has also signed into law a voter identification measure that requires people to present a form of photo identification such as a passport or driver’s license when they show up to vote.
For Democrats and union members those actions made Walker the most infamous Republican in the nation. Walker’s collective bargaining measure sparked furious, weeks-long protests in the state capitol in Madison last winter, at one point leading Democratic lawmakers to flee to Illinois in an attempt to deny a quorum and prevent enactment of the law.
Walker’s opponents have a Jan. 17 deadline to submit the required 540,208 signatures to recall him. The recall election would take place in June.
Recalls are also being attempted of Lt. Gov. Rebecca Kleefisch and of a few Republican state senators, with the potential of Democrats regaining the state Senate where they now have 16 members, compared to 17 Republicans.
Walker joins Morning Joe to discuss the recall effort, which he has called "unusual," job creation in the state, and how income inequality dominated conversation in 2011.
Walker’s message Thursday in Washington: “I don’t plan on losing, but I’m not afraid of losing.”
The recall will be an entirely new election with a Democratic candidate on the ballot.
“People ask me who my opponent is going to be. I say the person doesn’t matter,” Walker said, adding that labor union leaders would invest huge amounts of money in trying to defeat him and that his opponent would be “someone hand-picked by the unions.”
“We’ll run ads that define the differences; we’re not going to take cheap shots … I will point out my record versus whomever the unions decide to put up to run against me.”
Walker also predicted that no matter what might happen in the recall election, his public employee reforms won’t be rescinded. He said local governments in his state, now in a stronger bargaining position towards their employees, will not want to return to the old system. “You’d be hard pressed to find many local officials who would be out there even right now arguing to rescind the collective bargaining law,” he said.
He also argued that “probably the biggest reason I am a target” was a provision in the law that ended the practice of deducting union dues from the paychecks of public employees. “That’s ultimately what this is about,” he said.
Now if a public employee wants to pay union dues, he must write a check to the union. “What it comes down to is I took away the gravy train, the free money, they (the unions) had before and gave that right back to the workers to make that decision.”
One of Walker’s Democratic opponents, state Senate Democratic Leader Mark Miller said employees have payroll deductions for all sorts of purposes: alimony payments, donations to charity, etc., and that it is “very discriminatory” to single out union dues as payments that cannot be deducted. “It’s a specific way to weaken the unions’ ability to operate effectively,” he said.
Walker said his public employee reforms were “not radical” but commonsense measures to bring public employee compensation in Wisconsin into line with that of private-sector workers. “I still get questions about that all the time from people who think we’re taking away pensions … We’re not. We’re making (public workers pay) a payroll match contribution” to pay for their health insurance and pension benefits.
The Huffington Post's Amanda Terkel shares the latest on Gov. Scott Walker's battle to remain in office.
He said not only Republican governors and mayors but Democratic ones, such as New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick, and Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel, are being forced to try to curtail the high cost of public workers’ benefits. He asked, “Who would have thought a year ago when Occupy Chicago protestors came in, they’d mention my name and Rahm Emanuel’s in the same breath?”
University of Wisconsin political scientist Charles Franklin said the recall drive has collected “an impressive number of signatures in a short period of time, showing that the anti-Walker feelings remain strong and widespread. However, last year's recalls and Supreme Court election showed the state is very evenly divided, as does most polling.”
Walker predicted “a tossup election, as evenly divided as last summer” when Wisconsin had state Senate recall elections.
And for rolling back Walker’s collective bargaining law, Franklin sees that as somewhat doubtful. “It will take Democratic control of both houses of the legislature as well as the governorship to accomplish that, so unless November results in that kind of change the recall by itself won't repeal the laws.”
He added that the Democrats could take the state Senate “but have a long way to go to take the assembly. And the redistricting plan recently passed is not friendly to the Democrats, making legislative gains harder.”
Leave a Comment:
See ya!
So glad to see you go!
"Walker" -- Now THAT is an appropriate name.
Start walkin'!
Did he really say Mario Cuomo? Mario Cuomo was the New York Governor in the 1980s and early 1990s. His son Andrew Cuomo is the current Governor. Prior to being Governor he was the states Attorney General.
If Governor Walker was "standing up for the middle class" he wouldn't be getting recalled.
I love the "I was balancing the budget" lines when in fact his whole purpose was union busting.
Now the consequences for his huge over reach will come to pass. He could have compromised on legislation around collective bargaining.
The biggest entitlement is protecting the wealthy at the expense of the middle class.
Scott Walker promised to bring 250,000 private sector jobs to Wisconsin, and he's just a little under 235,000 short of that goal. But, hey, he's got three more years to go. It's not like other states have new private sector jobs in their states, right? Except over the last twelve months, Wisconsin ranks 50th in new private sector jobs. Or, in the reverse, Wisconsin is Number One in keeping new jobs from the state.
He is standing up for the middle class. The reforms have already netted positive results. A Balanced budget, additional teachers already hired, smaller class sizes in schools.
My question is how could you be against a better education for our children? Removing the unions from schools is the greatest thing that could ever happen.
Remeber - unions accomodate the lowest common denominator... if a teacher sucks at teaching they still teach because the union protects them.
Don't get too excited yet. The wisconsin poll this story based on is a university poll. The most accurate University Polls are Quinnipiac and Sulfolk Univ. Here's the two big boys who say different.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/133749163.html
Having a Mayor who got a recall sprung on him, He got more votes in favor of him than he got when he was elected 2 years earlier.
PPP is important, because PPP is a democrat run Polling organization. Given their numbers, a recall is not the appropriate course of action. Furthermore, nothing else serious has happened since.
He's not for the middle class, he's for the wealthy and corporations. That's very clear.
"For the average state worker making $50,000 a year, the deductions from workers' paychecks amount to about a 9% cut, or roughly $4,400, in take-home pay, according to figures provided by the state Department of Administration earlier this year."
This is what the middle class pays for Walkers union busting legislation.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/128192473.html
DB, Rassmussen does not count voters 18-21 in their polls, thus they are skewed to the right.
"He is standing up for the Middle Class." Ha! Ha! Ha! Stop Lying.
Brendan you couldn't be more wrong. Unions do not guarantee job retention; only that the playing field is leveled to equal a fair fight.
His recall effort will be successful if enough money is taken away from union bank accounts to purchase a successful result.
As the state I live in continues it's slide into going broke despite the highest total state tax bite in the nation, I'll watch what happens in Wisconsin. My state allows government employees to compile all the overtime than can grab in their last three years on the job and then have their pensions formulated based on 70% of the average of those last three years total pay. We have hundreds of state police officers retired with $100,000+ pensions plus lifetime health insurance after just 20 years on the job. We are going broke paying for this tax dollar abuse.
I'll be watching the idiocy in Wisconsin, alright. That state's voters can bring on their state's financial collapse just as well as we can here on the East Coast.
I would advise Wisconsin's non-government workers to read well between the lines of rubbish they are being fed by the state's union hacks...hint, hint...they don't give a rat's ass about anything having to do with you, except for the tax dollars you provide them with.
I sincerely hope that the people of Wisconsin show Mr. Walker the door. He is a tool, a cog in the Karl Rove machine and his actions are un-American and un-Constitutional.
Rove came up with this strategy to dry up the primary sources of Democrat funding in the US. The Labor Unions, the trial Lawyers and other stalwarts of the Democrat finances have been attacked in every state with a GOP majority in the State House. Oklahoma is a RIGHT TO WORK state so the Unions don't have that much power here, but the trial lawyers have been under assault for two years and have suffered mightily.
This is an indirect assault on the American people. It is racketeering and the Justice Department needs to launch a full-scale investigation and sit fat Karl down in a little room somewhere and find out what the real motive of all this activity truly is because it sure ain't lookin' out for the middle class.
Toss the bum out, RECALL SCOTT WALKER and send a message to the rest of the Rove hooligans that we're not going to stand for them trying to steal our country.
RECALL SCOTT WALKER and give Americans back their dream.
Wisconsin gets what it deserve when they elected this guy. He said exactly what he would do if elected and he has, so deal with it!
Eric,
I hate to break it to you, but you are wrong. You say that Gov. Walker is against the middle class and for the wealthy and corporations. Then you go on to say that the State worker will have a deduction of $4,400/year. My question is how is he pro corporations when it is public workers that this legislation affects? You could say that he is against the middle class, that's fine. You can even say that he is for the corporations, but don't use a public worker union to prove your point. Apples and Oranges.
Personally I think that he is against people (and governments) spending beyond their means. But go ahead and call it war against the middle class.
As a Wisconsin resident, my real estate taxes have not gone up for the first time in the last 6 years. It is the common slob like myself in the private sector who's taxes go towards the union public wages. I voted for Scott Walker, and do not support the recall. He will be recalled. The days of majority rules are over. If the majority votes someone in, the minority can recall. Doesn't really matter. The two party system makes up the two wings attached to the fire breathing destructive dragon that is scorching everything in it's path. It's called government, and most folks think the two parties are baseball teams competing for your fan dollars.
I believe the citizens of Wisconsin are dealing with it. Even if he stays, he's tarnished. And do you have proof that he said his goal was to banish unions?
No.
Rick Snyder in Michigan needs to be next!
I don't live in WI and personally hope he is tossed out, but my main issue with this scum is the lies he told for the reasoning behind the changes. He claims the changes would bring in 250,000 jobs. Well, that didn't happen. He claimed not allowing payroll deduct would save money on the budget, but he continues to allow other deducts, so the only reason was to cut money off from the unions. Lastly, WHY did he leave out police and fire??? They are no different from the other unions... except they supported him with donations.
It is, plain and simple. Rich folks, except pro athletes, don't belong to unions. Middle class folks do. He took away bargaining rights for those middle class people. Need any more?
Lets hope that Wisconsin voters will do what is best for the middle class.
Walker proved himself to be a corporate puppet.
He should not be the governor of Wisconsin...or any state.
He is best keeping company with Cain, Bachmann and Palin...gone.
Bohnman, most public workers average 50-70k a year. That doesn't make them rich or poor, it makes them MIDDLE CLASS folks.
So wealth class and belonging to a union are different things? I don't think so.
I say its apples and apples, until you throw the union (orange) thing in there.
Eric
That $4,400.00 per year is not being taken from anybody. It is going toward their retirement and health care. What do you pay per year for yours? Do you enjoy having your money pay for their's also?
Walker is a simple pawn in the US end-game. It has become ever-more clear that the wealthy American elites would like to do away with democracy and replace it with a Russian-style oligarchy. Walker helped them make some important steps toward that goal in the state of Wisconsin.
He also needed protection. I can only imagine him telling policemen that they'll be making less money, but his butt buddies in state congress will be making more.
Go Cheeseheads! Down with the right-wing elitists!
Hopefully this recall effort is successful and we can send him packing... Then we should continue with our local fool in Florida!
Walker's last comment about "redistricting making legislative gains harder for Dems.", will make it tough to argue the maps weren't politically motivated. As they currently are trying to do, what a joke.
Just remember, one of Hitlers first orders was to disband all unions.
How true. Your party dehumanizes all from the left, you dehumanize all from even the moderate positions in your own party. You don't see anyone as "human" unless they are Republican. It's a bad precedent your party has set over the past few years, and it's about to bite you in the ass.
This is complete and utter lies. This is my state, I know it well. He stripped the classroom size limitations in the budget (we now have no limit to how big a class can get) have lost over 100,000 teachers to early retirement that have not been replaced, and the education budget was slashed by $900,000 million not including the employee contributions mandated in the collective bargaining legislation.
Teachers in this state are totally under attack....and why? So that Walker could errode money from the Dems and so he can move us into Charter schools (which haven't been working in Milwaukee, more graduates, but they can't read or write when they leave). This wasn't for the budget, because you could have legislated the pension contributions without taking away bargaining rights, even Dems were for doing that. Walker left the 2 public sector unions that contributed to his election campaign in place, excempt from the law in the firefighters and police officers.....why? Because this was 100% politics.
To be honest though who cares about the unions, he should be recalled, but not for this. He should be recalled for the cuts to schools. He should be recalled because his first action was to put us in debt with his corporate tax cut (first thing he did) which then caused us to cut public sector work (he walked into a balanced budget). He should be recalled because he threw away 2,500 jobs to make a high speed rail and gave that money back to the Fed, which just got allocated to Iowa to run the Minneapolis - Chicago rail line there. This guy is a tool, and there are more pressing issues than the collective bargaining to hate him for....he's working for the Republican party, not the people. Many Dems do the same thing, but just because many of them do it too doesn't make it right. Governors work for all of us, not just their party.
Michelle Bachmann got Hasta la vista baby status " Terminated ",
as of yesterday in Iowa.
You are next in line in Wisconsin Mr Walker.
Teachers hate his guts and his dictatorship policies. The Tea Party: The new Taliban -if we allow it-
Walkers a lying tool and needs to go. He's not we the people, he's a corporate plant selling out Wisconsin and it's resources.
Jessica?? As a resident of Michigan, I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How dare Gov. Walker ask the poor, poor teachers to actually contribute a fraction of their incomes towards their own retirement? What a monster! And how dare he not allow the employees of the state to collectively bargain (read: hold hostage) against the greater good of the private citizens of Wisconsin? After all, what's a mere $6,000,000,000 in state debt? It's not like the taxpayers in Wisconsin are the ones paying the salaries of those state union workers...oh, wait, they do. But, but, but, it's for the kids! Oh, you mean those kids who were lied to about the reasons for the teacher's strikes and bussed to Madison to be used as pawns by the unions to stir up public sentiment against conservatives? Those kids? But, but, but, he's taking money from the middle class and giving it to the rich! Really? Prove it! The company they work for, in this case, the State of Wisconsin, is beyond broke. If they can't tolerate paying an additional 3% of their own health insurance premiums and an additional couple percentage points of their income towards their own retirement, then the system truly is broken. When did my tax money become your bargaining chip?
JH, get real. The $4,400 comes out of their paychecks. They didn't have to pay that before. That's a lot of money for someone that only makes $50,000 a year.
Most states already have laws restricting essential workers such as police and firemen from walking off of the job that is probably why they weren't addressed by the new law.
From someone who works in the private sector and can no longer get a job that provides a pension or completely free medical insurance (we are paying 30% of the cost or about $6000/yr for family coverage), I'm offended by the public union workers who feel that I should be giving them more than I can get or have been able to get in more than 10 years. Pensions have been phased out over the last 20 years. Welcome to the real world people.
I am not a Walker fan, and do not agree with his method of intentionally creating a deficit by giving tax breaks to corporations and then using that deficit to go after unions. The results have been disastrous for job creation in the state and at last tally; almost 15K jobs have been flushed since the legislation was signed into law.
Having said that there are real issues that must be addressed with union pensions and healthcare benefits. In some states firemen are retiring with $750K per year pensions. What is wrong with this picture? How did salaries get so out of wack with the value-added by the job?
So to be clear while I think Walker used slight of hand to force his hidden agenda, the rising costs of union benefits and wages of public servants must eventually be negotiated to a sustainable rate.
There have been arrests made today from the John Doe Federal Investigation concerning his campaign financing while he was in office in Milwaukee before being elected. Cannot wait will federal charges are made for Walker and the Fitz's. He went before Congress and said there was no financial benefits for eliminating collective bargaining. The unions already agreed to pay more for their ins and retirement. He just wanted to flex his power and it will bit him in the butt!! I live here in WI and you would not believe how corrupt our state gov is. He slammed a voter ID bill and so many more legislation in secret behind door. He has passed into law allowing EPA standards reduced just to get business to relocate here. Bass Pro Shop was going to build upstate and Walker was going to allow then to build on protected wetlands and they declined! He care nothing about our state or our citizens. Cannot wait till the justice system gets him!
Eric - You get real
The money comes from one of their pockets and is deposited into accounts for their benefit, namely health care and retirement. I put money away out of my pockets too for those things. You just don't have to contribute because I am not a government union member. Thieving libs are running this country broke.
Walker is going to be reelected, after the Democrat run out of state abandoning their job and the take over of the Wisconsin Capitol by radical union members , he is fulfilling the promesis to fix the State economy. Whyle Wisconsin Supreme court rule in favor of Gov. Walker , union leaders and the minoryty Democrats are fighting Walker. The people of Wisconsing is not happy with the amount of money paying in benefit to state workers many of them got even less benefits than the public employees working for them, and that is not right . Thanks to the job of Gov. Walker homeowners are going to pay less property taxes and the school will have an increase in their budget for 2012. Chris Christy and Bob McDonnell in Virginia are fixing the mess lefttheir Democrats predecessors as well.
Jessica 1170252 -
I live in Michigan, I lean progressive, and I didn't vote for Snyder. From what I've seen, he seems to be more down the middle. Snyder has said he doesn't want to follow the WI or Ohio example because he didn't want to "stir things up". From where I sit, Snyder seems to not fit the Republican mold.
As for the emergency manager legislation he (and the Republican legislature) pushed through, there is a need to right the ship in communities that refuse to or unable to manage their fiscal affairs. After the problems are fixed, the program returns the community or school district back to the people. Regarding Detroit, he is consulting closely with Mayor Dave Bing - if Bing sees the need, there will an emergence manager and Bing will step aside until the city is brought back to fiscal sanity.
Cities like Flint, Benton Harbor, Pontiac, and Detroit have lost a significant portion of their population, which means a much smaller tax base. Elected officials haven't so much mismanaged their communities as they have been unable to adapt to a much smaller revenue stream.
Snyder says he will not run after his four years are up, which shows he's not so much a politician as an emergency manager himself. That's to his credit, I believe.
Walker…….“enacted two fundamental conservative policy changes in a traditionally Democratic-leaning state”…..yes and yes.
Both changes are long overdue no matter who’s in office
-Abolished most collective bargaining rights…..unions need to realize the public purse is not a bottomless treasure pit. Public sector wages should reflect and be aligned to wages paid outside, in the real world..
- Voter photo identification……everyone should applaud this measure, Democrat, Libertarian, Socialist, independent or Republican, everyone!! There is nothing democratic about the voter rort, in fact it’s criminal.
MNPat........gee you must of picked some of the lies Walker is telling. FACT: WI has LOST JOBS for 5 going on 6 straight months, to say he has created 230,000 jobs is just another lie that you repugs are so good at doing.
The RECALL is not just about the Unions, its about voter ID, drastic cuts in schools, medicaid, seniors, disabled. He lied to the people of WI and said getting rid of the Unions was all about the budget, until he got caught in his testimony in Washington and admitted to the world he lied. Not raising taxes on the wealthiest and putting the burden on the middle class, poor, seniors, and disabled(sound familiar Washington). To say he is for small business, why don't you ask Capitol Brewery about that, he chose Miller Corp over them, so much for "OPEN FOR BUSINESS", no wonder no business wants to come to WI. We as Democrates agree we need to curb spending and make cuts, but also increase revenue, but Walkers radical ways are not working for the majority of the people in WI, and he knows and so do we. And now he wants to mess with state workers pension, and turn it into a 401K instead, why is he making state workers pay the price, because he wants to privatize everything, all in the name of Corporate Greed.
YES HE WILL BE RECALLED!!
yes dan there is two classes of workers,those who work in the public sector and us slobs working in the private sector,my wife and i give me a good perspective.
Dead man Walk(er)ing.
He is the GOP's shooting star alright.
Brilliant at the onset,............and a quick flame-out, psssssssssttttt.
Time for somebody to beam Scotty up.
He and the GOP have learned that fascism is unpopular.
One down,........and we are coming for the rest of you next after we scrape this Connie off our shoe and do a Connie cleanup on aisle 5.
It's amazing people get so worked up about needing to show some form of ID to prove you can vote.
It should be mandatory...anyone who thinks otherwise is in favor of cheating the system in some way, shape or form.
You need a photo ID for tons of things...voting definitely should be one of them.
You guys on the right like to ignore the facts to fit your message or you just don't get it. Unions set the standards by which all of us are compensated. Getting rid of the public sector unions is just the first shot across the bow. Next the Kochs will go after private sector unions. Without them they will be able to pay anything--nothing will stop their rape of the American worker.
One day when all of the labor unions are gone and we're all working for a few cents a day as they do in China you can ask yourself how it happened. How it will happen is the conservative rank and file not looking far enough down the road to understand the ultimate agenda.
Before the Bush led economic collapse such huge deficits in pension funds were not an issue. In fact, many were overfunded. So naturally when nearly unregulated "bankers" created CDOs and ratings agencies gave AAA ratings to that junk and tanked the world's economy (and reaped plenty in bailout funds, etc), the problem was teachers' pensions and public sector employees. That's the right's argument.
Also, I find it amusing that so many whine about public sector workers having such great pensions, benefits because they don't have similar benefits. Since the whines are invariably accompanied by comments about overpaid, underworked public sector workers, I have this question---If all of you losing your wages, vacations and pensions in the private sector are so smart and hardworking, why don't you simply apply for these cushy public sector jobs? Or do you simply prefer to remain bitter and envy others who have things you don't? I'd suggest you do something to improve your own lives, but naturally you can only complain about others who have it better than you do.
Why can't these people see what unions have done to our country. This man had the backbone to stand his ground thru terrible harassment. Corruption is what the unions stand for. The raping is what the union bosses do to their members with the high dues and money being spent for the bosses own greed.
Anyone that would recall a governor that has taken power away from the unions and made it law to show I.D. to vote are the very people that have put this country into the crisis that it is in.
I wish he was running for President! "When the going gets tough, the tough get going" This is what my father always said and he built a beautiful home, lifestyle and family without Government aid on a Teachers Salary back in the 50's, 60's and 70's. The people complaining want change but not for them. I have had to change how I pay for College, Taxes, Insurance and Retirement....I pay them all myself while being a single mother of 3. Pick up your boots people, put them on and work it out. Hand outs are not going to be the future in Wisconsin and hopefully through out all of America for much longer. Bring Strength and Guts back to the American name. Not lightweight Liberal BS on Our Soil or Foriegn Soil.
TAX THE RICH..........GOD DAMMIT TAX THE RICH! Hold it they all moved out! TAX THE ALMOST RICH!
James...
I've seen many on this site write to critcize every state that proposes making a photo ID a requirement for voting, saying it's not really that big of a problem.
This past Tuesday in the Republican caususes in Iowa, we saw one candidate edge out another candidate by a vote of 30,015 to 30,007...which means that a mere 5 votes could have swung the vote to the other candidate.
I don't think it should be considered to be a problem for those 60,022 voters to be asked to show an ID before voting...it is said in this country that "every vote counts". If that is the case, it should not be too much to ask that those who do vote are actually eligible to vote.
mj -- you are inflating the unions reach. nothing in my 30 year career in the technology business has been determined by the unions.
@ Mike Davis-- you claim that the elites are trying to establish a Russian-style oligarchy? Did you miss the MSNBC.com story last week that showed that, of the richest 15 people in Congress, 8 of them are Democrats? In fact, they held 7 of the top ten spots. Who are the "millionaire and billionaire" fat cats you libs love to vilify? Mostly, yourselves.
@ all the "He promised us jobs" haters-- he couldn't get the democratically-elected Democratic members of the state House to stay on the job and do what they were elected to do. They cowardly fled the state, completely shirking their job responsibilities when things didn't go the way they wanted, the same steamroller way the Dems have crushed any attempts by conservatives to stop them from spending the state into bankruptcy. How is he supposed to help create a business-friendly environment for the creation of new jobs when his own state employees are willing to create crises and throw a monkey wrench into the gears of progress, bogging down the government with useless and frivolous recall elections?
Mj
I worked for a big retail company, we never need union to solve our problems with the company, we got better benefit then the unionized employees of the competitors , health insurance, 401K, stock purchase plan lower than the market price, vacation, holiday paid and much more plus every quarter we got a share if the company did well. We don't need unions.
At least he will stay and join the fight. The Democratos ran away to Illinois and hid.
Gov. Walker is the best Gov. this state has had in many years. The Public sector unions was not favored by even the most fervent President in History, FDR. He said public unions should be outlawed. There is no reason a person working for the Government should have a union backing them. The nanny state in Wisconsin is now being held accountable and the Teachers are better off for it.
magnolia---It is refreshing to see someone who is so singularly ignorant on an issue still post something with confidence. Congratulations. Read the article and notice he exempted cops and firefighters, who generally receive the highest pensions and salaries, from his legislation because they supported him with campaign dollars. Clearly this was not about balancing the budget if he coddled his supporters. Notice his close, money grubbing relationship with the Koch brothers. And most importantly ask yourself one thing---Which groups did more than anyone to create the MidWest's pension receiving, good wage and benefits earning middle class of white, unskilled workers for the last 75 years? That's right, labor unions and their members. Odd how wages and benefits began shrinking and imperiling the working class when unions began to lose membership. Odd how jobs began to be shipped overseas and the wealthy classes became even wealthier when unions began to decline in clout. BTW, if corruption is what unions stand for (and this is based on your vast knowledge of the inner workings of every union in the world I'm sure) and unions should be reined in as a result, then corporations, including those in the financial sector should also be reined in, no?
Unions went from 25% of the private sector in the early 1980's to about 7% today. So how exactly are they responsible for anything that has happened to our country? How many union leaders make 8 or 9 figures annually like corporate heads? How many even earn in the mid-6 figures? Not many.
Hey... No problem, let the recall go through, let the millionaire union bosses install their own person, let the entitlements for public workers go up, let them have their pensions... FINE! It's not MY taxes that will pay for it, WHY DO I CARE??? Run the state into the ground, who cares??? CA and IL are such FINE examples of how to run a state... Let the recall go through... IDIOTS! :)
Walker is an extream right wing zealot and he's going down, along with his administration and his Koch brothers financed middle class busting agenda.
Scott Walker did what he was paid to do, get rid of collective bargaining.
One wonders though, how Walker was elected as governor? Could it be the same reason why Kasich, of Ohio became governor? Most likely, the same people, who are waiting with baited breath, to vote him out of office are the same one who voted him, into office. Police and fireman, are notoriously Republican here in Ohio. Do not get me wrong, I am all for collective bargaining although, I have never belong to a union and I have always paid a big portion my of my benefits.
I was a nurse for over forty years. I would not and could not preform the duties of the fire or police. Yes, I have seen people whose bodies have been mangled in accidents or shot with shot guns but I never, had to be at the sceen of the crime. I have been the first responder and you could never get me to walk down and an alley, even in broad daylight. I would not care, if I were in a suit armor and with a gun in each hand, I just could not do their jobs.
And here is my point, neither have any of these politicians had to dirty their hands or or expericenced the sight that police, firefighters or even nurses, have experienced.
When I read articlaes about these politicians wanting to lower or already low "standard of living, I say, get a REAL job. Sign up to defend our country. Provide care for someone who has messed themselves. If you have ever changed a diaper, which I doubt they have, let them clean up an adult. Let these politicians who hold the hand of some one who is actively dying.
That is the problem with the Walkers of this world, they lack street smarts. They have have no life experince. They are followers who believe they are the only ones who care. When in essence, they are smoothering the life out of working class.
Walker is unable to think outside of the box. He believes, in what he did and even if, it was unethical and did not the follow protocol he was elected to honor. All Walker and his followers, did, were to look up into the eyes of the Koch brothers and feel the love, of their masters. And then Walker is ejected from his throne, he will try to please his masters, David and Charles and Karl, by begging "Thank you sirs, may I have another.?"
Walker has no concept of what a citizen of America is about. He is a followe! He believes he was wronged by the middle class but the middle class was wronged by him and his puppet masters, He wanted to divide and concur the workers, Walker does not know what it is to be loyal to anything but the powerful. I hope Wisconsin kicks his rear end far and wide. Why? Because his fellow Koch-ettes will see what is coming to them. Kasich will be back on FOX, spewing his bile and lies about life. And let us wait and see what the Koch brothers will do after they created this gods with feet of clay.
Eventually the pendulum will swing the other way. Unfortunately, people will forget the attempt, by big business and the wealthy, to over throw our government. And the next generation, will fall for this same sham! History DOES repeat itself.
I do not know how anyone from the middle class, would be a Republican. Democrats are not perfect but the do the fighting and the work.
... is your slavish devotion to Koch Industries when you should be a servant of the people who elected you.
Actually, one of Hitler's first orders was nationalizing healthcare. Then he gave the people someone to hate, the rich (Jews). I can tell you whom these orders resemble, and it surely isn't Walker or Republicans.
oaktonwboy
You need to make your mind, when are necessary cut to do un the budget and everybody got cut including police and teaches, the first thing you do is complain about why the police and teachers get cut , now they exempted you still complain . You people need to grow up
Never let the facts get in the way of the message board. Walker didn't bust all unions. He signed into law the removal of collective bargaining for certain public employee unions. Walker didn't stop the flow of money to the unions. Part of the law was the removal of the state as collector of dues for the union. Unions will still get paid but its members will have to write a check each month or quarter or whatever to pay those dues. Can't say if the recall will pass or not as I don't live in WI.
Pedestrian in SF.....San Francisco? LOL Say no more. Even Gov Moonbeam Brown is trying to figure out ways to roll back all those union goodies he dished out in the 70s during his first go-around as governor. California residents are taxed up to their eyeballs and still billions in the hole. If anything, the rest of the states in the union should look at California as what NOT to do if they want to be in any kind of decent fiscal shape.
Jolly old soul...
You make a great point and lose all of it with your school yard language
Walker is an A-1 @!$%# head. How did he EVER get elected? Oh, wait--same state as bat@!$%# Bachman. Right?
How can I donate to Walker's re-election campaign? This guy probably saved Wisconsin from the same fate many other states are facing...runaway government union pensions (mostly underfunded which means the middle class taxpayer will have to eventually support). There is $35,000 of unfunded union pensions for every man, woman and child in America. The California legislature and the governor are own lock, stock and barrel by the unions who are rapidly driving this state over a cliff. This is not Democracy when the unions can buy their own politicians and write their own legislation. They claim they speak for the middle class......in CA the union members average 3X the salary of those in the private sector for sitting around in comfy government cubicles. We need Walker in California!
Did anyone else notice that immediately after he passed this legislation he also passed legislation to reduce the taxes on corporations in his state (single sales factor)?
I'll put it this way to the folks arguing against state workers. In Nj a teacher with a degree in say Math can never make more than $85k. If you were to add an amount to that related to what pension costs will conceivably cost the state (assuming the person lived to say 85 with full pension) you probably need to say they could make about $120k or $125k by the end of their career. Lets contrast that with an accountant in NJ with the same 4 year degree but in accounting. They can (and do) often make about $120k before they're 35. So for another 30 years they can earn AT LEAST that $120k while the teacher won't earn that $120k (including deferred pension costs) until about 25 years into their career. That's the MOST they could ever make with that 4 year degree. Who on the conservative side wants to argue with me that the teacher should not make at least as much as the accountant? Lets hear it...
Why do so many walker fans refuse to understand deferred compensaion? 100% OF ALL MONEY PAID INTO STATE AND MUNICIPAL PENSION PLANS COME DIRECTLY FROM THE EMPLOYESS, NOT THE TAX PAYERS! Walker is moving fast to privatize all the State pension funds here. That means big money for his banking buddies and the distruction of our pension system. Wisconsin is one of only two states in this country that has a fully funded pension system, why fix it if it's not broken? FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!
Well I see the anti-Walkkers are at it again! Where is that ad on TV with the made up family talking about their children sitting on the floor at school? You know the ones that have classrooms with more then 50 kids per class. The one that was made in Illinois. Oh yea the one that the unions pulled when the media started to ask Questions! Most of these recallers are either Bullies or selfish, and they think that they are the Wisconsin middle class. Check the WI. web site, many make more then 55,000.00 a year with 4 weeks vacation, with optional over time! Shameful-greedy-anti-Walkker recallers. Recallers win and the real non-union Wisconsin middle class is going to pay for it big time!!! Union games to protect the rich are at it again! Look up what union presidents are making $$$$$$!
Eric-913730 "DB, Rassmussen does not count voters 18-21 in their polls, thus they are skewed to the right."
Rasmussen counts all likely voters, which is why they are consistently the most accurate pollster. In virtually every other state, the workers have to contribute towards their retirement and health care costs, and it appears that it has prevented thousands of layoffs of public teachers.
I suspect the voters, having seen that the 'sky didn't fall in' after the law took effect, will like the status quo. I also suspect that the union workers will like the extra pay (union dues) that they now get to keep if they desire. I wonder what percentage have decided to keep those union dues for their families?
Not only will Walker win, it won't even be close. Thank You sore loser democrats for wasting millions of dollars for nothing but to pacify you cry babies. Your efforts may serve another purpose though, to cost Odumbo the state of Wisconsin in November, perhaps even swing it republican for the next 20 years.
How did that 60's song go? It didn't go like this, but maybe it should have.
#.TwYLqfIpno8
With all the many candidates coming forth, it is a very confusing situation. Who knows whom to trust? Instead of hopeful candidates, perhaps looking at all the rhetoric and smears, they should be called "hopeless" contenders? I'm still watching and hoping that some Conservative Republican we can wholly and confidently elect, will step forward, or is it too late?
Walker made this a National issue by his handling of the situation. At any point, he could have compromised. The Unions caved to 3 out of 4 demands...the last one being their right to bargain. And lets not forget the Kockh brothers...He did not want concession! He wanted total destruction of the unions.
That's exactly what happened and you have the Shaun Hannity's of the world worshiping him because he rips off average income public employees
Funny how MSNBC missed the story on the Washington D.C. Democrat who has been robbing the taxpayers for years isn't it?
Washington City Council member charged with theft, filing false returns
"Thomas embezzled, stole and obtained by fraud property worth at least $353,000 belonging to the District of Columbia. He is charged with theft concerning programs receiving federal funds.
The thefts began at least as early as April 2007 and continued until at least February 2009, the documents say.
Thomas is also charged with filing false tax returns for 2007, 2008 and 2009, saying his income was below what he actually received."
http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/05/us/dc-council-member/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
Once a Democrat always untrustworthy.
pjam respectfully your argument is a little off as Rep. Harry Thomas is a Republican not a Democrat. Mr. Thomas resigned and plead guilty per sources. Sorry, CNN and FOX are not very reliable sources as we know the devil is in the details.
Labor Unions in Wisconsin cannot deny a balanced State budget with no layoffs of public employees under Walker.
Prior to Walker, Labor's plan was to leave public employee's healthcare and pensions alone and pay for it with a statewide tax increase, a concept clearly mandated against by the majority of Wisconsin voters.
The notion that a recall will be supported by Wisconsin voters seems wishful at best given the apparent support by Wisconsin of no new taxes. What are you going to do Wisconsin? Are you now in favor of raising your taxes? And, the attempt of a recall of a judge, and the attempted recalls of Republican legislators failed despite huge sums of imported Labor dollars to support those recalls.
How can the reporter call Walker a "star?" This is the fellow who has been David Koch's puppet. If America has ever bred a fascist it is David Koch, in the sense that corporate America wants to control government America. The interests of American families, including their wages, hours, and working conditions, are last on his agenda. Hence Walker's assault on unions, which he undertook with the full political and financial collaboration of the Koch Brothers and ALEC, their legislation "factory." So why try to repair the reputation of this embattled puppet of a would-be oligarch? I am surprised and disappointed that MSNBC would attempt to whitewash this man. The writer didn't even mention the successful recall of two or three Republican State Senators by the Democrats in Wisconsin as reaction to Walker's union-busting assault.
Mary, what are you talking about? Harry Thomas is a Democrat. There's no such thing as a republican in DC city government.
Mission accomplished?
Walker is an incompetent crook.
The voters of Wisconsin erred in electing him and would do themselves a big favor if they tossed him out at the first opportunity.
No Rix the mission was to get the state out of the red. Which has happened without layoffs. It also gives state employees the option to join the union or not. Choice instead of forced slavery. Who is driving the recall? How is it being paid for? Unions because they are losing a forced mandate to contribute to their deep financial pockets. Now common if bringing a state out of the red and back to financial responsibility is incompetent, you have the wrong handle. And prove the crook part. Specifics please no unsubstantiated crap.
why are there unions anyway. i say take away the weekend, holiday, benefits, vacation. work like a union man which like me has no vacations no holidays but i am lucky enough to get my weekend most of the time but even that might not happen soon to. most employee have it so much better than the union man why don't everyone get paid for the hours they work and work when they say see how it was when there was no unions
Go Gov. Walker! He is indeed right, "Collective bargaining in the public sector is not a right, it is an expensive entitlement."
Whatever rhetoric he uses, there is no question he is taking away freedoms of American workers.
We need a whole lot more employee unions, especially in light of the fact that corporate profits are skyrocketing, and the American Paycheck is shrinking.
The American People have the right to a fair wage!
JK:
You and the Governor are 100% wrong about this.
@Bilweeler
Oh, cause showing a map of what states allow it means that it automatically becomes a right. LOL
Public sector unions DO NOT have the right to bargain with themselves. Besides, we all know where the public sector unions money goes, to reelect democrats that allow additional handouts to the unions.
What happens when you run out of other peoples money? Then what?
If corporations and unions have the right to vote with their money, then taking money just out of the hands of unions should be unconstitutional.
Then what? Well, you can be sure no one will be looking to you brendan.
Brendan:
Read the chart. Carefully. Wisconsin is one of the states that requires collective bargaining. Not allows...requires.
Even after the changes Walker implemented with the help of the GOP legislature, there is now modified but required collective bargaining in Wisconsin.
http://legalclips.nsba.org/?p=5414
Gov. Walker is so FAR right it almost facist. Collective bargaining is an expression of free association and free speach, and so far as I am aware, these ARE RIGHTS! The unions were willing to negotiate appropriate concessions, but the Republicans arrogantly ramed through radical changes with no negotiation whatsoever. I hope his term is appropriately truncated, as well as enough state senators to put the process back in the hand of the people and not the idealogues.
Don...
Don't you mean "put the process back in the hands of the "union" people" ???
Collective bargaining is a right protected by the 1st amendment: "the right of the people peaceably to assemble". And including the phrase that follows it "and to petition the government for a redress of grievances" confirms it to be a right for public sector employees.
If the concessions to the unions are too many or too lucrative, the answer is to get better negotiators. Eliminating the unions is akin to saying "You drive a hard bargain... so I'll just outlaw you."
So much for the mantra that they cannot bargain at all.
I have to say that the Republicans have become very adept at spinning things into negatives: for example the so-called "expensive entitlement". First they used the word entitlement as a negative slur against Social Security, Medicare and Medicade (the later two are the best run health plans in the USA as everything else is privatised - which is where the word "expense" REALLY comes in!). They made "social security entitlement" a dirty thing to say - or the American people to want to fight for. Now Walker is attaching that same negative adjective to collective bargaining. UNREAL.
Its a shame that some people actually believe that BS rhetoric: they are blinding by the "facts" that the GOP has created about firefighters, teachers and police stating that they cost too much. Meanwhile, more big corporate tax breaks have been put in place during Walker's term - millions of dollars just given away freely to CEO's and the 1% owners. And somehow, these deluded people that actually believe the Repub "facts" (the idea that teachers and firefighters make six-digit figures, which they don't) don't know about what the other hand has been doing for these bloated mega-companies!
Talk about lies and mis-information!! Get out and read something else beside Fox Noise and get the REAL facts instead of just drinking the Walker Kool-aid!
In effect, they can't bargain at all. You see, Walker put in the law the unions have to have a yearly vote to stay a union. If they don't do that then they can't bargain.
It's the same as "you can't bargain"......typical GOP double speak.
Walker is a simple pawn in the US end-game. It has become ever-more clear that the wealthy American elites would like to do away with democracy and replace it with a Russian-style oligarchy. Walker helped them make some important steps toward that goal.
eric -- if the members of the union are as passionate about their union as most of the people in this conversation suggest then having a vote should not be a big deal. i would imagine the union already holds some sort of meeting to keep the members informed making this just a new item on the agenda.
What the Gov does not tell everyone, is that State Workers salaries are so far below the private sector its outrageous, but the Unions negotiated keeping our wages low so we could get health care & pension at a low rate, its called COMPROMISE!!!
But now we have to pay more, which is fine if he gives us the same pay rate that the private sector gets, but we all know how that turned out. Refused to give us a cost of living raise for the next 2 yrs, actually it will be more like 5yrs since we have not had one in over 3yrs, but he plans on giving himself a $7000 raise this year, why for dividing this state so bad, gee thanks Walker no wonder you are being recalled.
@laura
Boo-hoo. no one in the private sector gets a 3% cost of living increase, why in the world should you? what makes you special?
laura -- I have never understood why folks believe they should receive a cost of living raise. in my mind all work should be compensated based on merit, not based on longevity or the passing of a calendar year. can you help me understand why anyone deserves a cost of living raise?
James & Branan.....Remember your words, Boys, when you have a little more of life's experience, you will have to Eat them. Enjoy...now go have a Nice cup of Tea Dears. (your ramblings have gone on long enough)
Brendan..."no one in the private sector gets a 3% cost of living increase". What a dumb statement! I'm sure plenty of workers in the private sector get 3% or more. My wife's friend just told her last night she and all of her staff were getting 6% raises this year. So since collective bargaining is gone let me go in and negotiate a raise, as an individual based on merit, like the private sector gets to do. Walker isn't just going to be recalled for ending collective barganing. He is also going to be recalled for not creating jobs (wisconsin just ranked 50th in the nation), cutting programs for the poor and needy, cutting a billion dollars from public schools, creating tax havens for the wealthy, corporate handouts (Spectrum just got a 4 million forgivable loan, while the CEO is getting 13 million per year). I could go on but these are more than enough reasons to RECALL WALKER!
Federal union workers don't have collective bargaining!! WI. unions are better and you better help pay for it! They are that 1% that we hear about. RECALL WISCONSIN UNIONS and STAND WITH WALKKER! Ask the Wisconsin Obama union members what they want, and the "free ride" always comes up.
james,
You are absolutely correct! You can always tell a public union member when he whines about "cost of living increases". You know...in the private sector people are compensated by their merit, not by being "entitled" to something. I've always worked in the private sector and I can you that companies base my increases on the worth and value I bring to the company. They just don't "give" raises...you have to EARN it!
Flush the tyrannical turd.
I commend the Republican party for its real (but never revealed) belief in the Constitution!
I condemn the Democratic party for never supporting truth telling about the history of our government!
This country and government was not founded or built on the principal of a populist that had any real control. The real debates about religion was about preventing divides in the population spilling into government and it was agreed despite decent it would be BAD. It contained facades to keep the masses controlled. America is built on generations of lies!
This country was built, maintained and served by the servant class! (owned slaves, indentured servants, cheep migrant labor, child labor and the list goes on)
The problem today is the old walls and curtains are falling if abet slow.
The end of the benevolent employers that allowed unions, retirement plans and realized the need of a content work force. (Henry Ford knew the basics as did others)
Business shifted the roll to the need for a government that worked together to address the needs of the many to fill the old roll of business that supported education. This shift is most clear as we see the declining tax rates on upper incomes.
Now the 250 year old house of cards is falling!
Simpleton: Your name belies your true message! I have no idea what constitution you're reading..."By the People...For the People"..Basic rights? You actually want to revert to the "service" class.? "To what purpose? Are you are heartless or you are a Marxist, using this a sign of what is to come? Because Marx said this would happen.
since religion became such a big part of politics is where the house of cards are falling more and more. they had it right from the start. look at the middle east and if you can't see it then god help us all. religion give us and then take it away. and we are at the latter end of this one. lets hope your god saves us but don't count on it because god doesn't have the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
so what he's saying with his "unions have all the money in the world" speech is "If I win its my fault and I rock, if I lose its the unions fault and I'm awesome." What a nice pretend world to live in. Get to cut taxes to oil companies and fire teachers and its all "For the greater good"!
There is this string of fantasies coming from the right wing spinmeisters, sadly being bought by people who are in fact being victimized by them.
First the Supreme Court empowers corporations to make unlimited contributions with little or no transparency. Then the GOP set out to dismantle the unions. Wonder who is the beneficiary of most corporate contibutions and who gets the union money? Wonder also which union has even a fraction of the money accumulated in the balance sheets of our major corporations? You know, those same companies that anti-business Obama administration is oppressing and forcing to make record profits and hang onto trillions.
I guess we shouldn't be surprised. For years the advertising industry has used these same techniques to convince Americans that paying money for and consuming a product that will eventually kill you, namely tobacco, is really cool.
Lord Voldemort –excuse me I mean GOP Gov. Walker attacked unions through a law limiting state employee collective bargaining rights. As the GOP went about doing the bidding of their 1 % corporate oligarchy masters Koch Brothers and now faces recall. Anyway you cut it Lord Walker is finish politically his career ends now.
WALKER for President 2012, he's the man. Stop the union leaches sucking our states dry and require everyone to prove who they are to vote. WALKER for President. He gets things done.
Yup, unions aren't the problem. When has the UAW lobbied to invade Iraq? That guy (Walker) simply replaced good, government jobs with crappy, low-paying service work in the private sector. The vilification of worker unions is a traditional psychological tactic used by corporations and their political minions. Walker is a simple pawn in the US end-game. It has become ever-more clear that the wealthy American elites would like to do away with democracy and replace it with a Russian-style oligarchy. Walker helped them make some important steps toward that goal in the state of Wisconsin.
What he's saying is that all of the dues those teachers pay the unions go to put democrats in office. The unions can then sit accross the bargaining table from the people they themselves put in office. How do you think these people got such lucrative pensions and benefits? It's time people stopped believing all of the negative press the unions have paid for. We are not teacher haters, we are citizens for fiscal sanity and it's about time we got someone in office with balls enough to do the tough and unpopular job of turning things around. Get on the internet and do some research of your own on the public unions before taking sides. It wouldn't hurt to take an economics class either.
stanone,
What do you think the exec's in the corporation's do? Are they just trying to get by? The governments and worker's representatives need good talent too! They manage just as many people, if not more. And what do unions do anyway? They make jobs pay? Oh man!! How tragic!! Without worker unions how can the worker compete with the power that corporations posses? How can you think thing are fair that way?
No, it's about bringing public emplyees back into the real world, in line with those workers who PAY FOR the public employees' salaries! And it's about NOT letting unions have a free ride to pick the pockets of their members.
Stanone, you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to Unions. Unions don't have enough money or power to put anyone into an local elected office. In fact, in the past, most public sector union members have voted for Republicans. According to your logic, Democrats should be holding all local offices and you know that isn't true! Union dues money is spent according to their by-laws and their political action money is only a very small percent of their dues. Most of these lucrative benefits and pensions you are complaining about came to them because their jobs were considerably lower paying than the public sector jobs. When the economny was good People like you made fun of people that took these lower paying jobs when they could have worked for a hell of a lot more in the private sector.
Just researched the Koch Brother's. They made the most of their money with oil and inside trading.
Quite interesting. Now the new fellow Obama put into watching banking and other operation's they may not be able to get away with it.
an yes, I know he made the move with out the congress, sooo, he has made 30 such actions in 3 year's, Bush did 70 in the first 3 years.
Stanone, I also have to tell you that the biggest problem cities and counties are facing in regards to the union pension and insurance is that when they gave these rights to the workers they failed to fund them. If they had agree to this and set aside the money for what was promised it would not be a problem. Any large corp. (boring, gm, ford, toyota) that promised this and failed to fund it would find themselves before a judge. I realize this happened in the past but now it is coming home to roost. And yes, I would fight tooth and nail against anyone who told me I don't have the right to join a union. A union is strength through numbers.
scott walkers a
dick,I mean KOCH.....RECALLS A BITCH....hahahahaahaaaaaaToo bad, so sad Democrat cry babies. Waaa Waaa Waaa. Walker will win in a landslide, bet the farm on it, all your time, money, and effort will be wasted, all for nothing! Ha Ha. The actions of the cry baby sore loser democrats could even cost Odumbo this state in November as the people of this state take out their frustration on the dems, a state he will desperately need to win reelection. We are sick of you whiney sore losers, you way over played your hand, not that you ever had anything but a joker to begin with.
Cutting taxes to cure a budget deficit is not fiscal sanity. Raising spending while cutting taxes is not fiscal sanity. Firing teachers and others on the public payroll during an economic downturn is not fiscal sanity. Selling infrastructure assets (like Interstate highways), already paid for by taxpayers, to foreign powers who will then impose fees on taxpayers is not fiscal sanity.
I'm all for fiscal sanity, but the GOP abandoned that completely ten years ago.
walker is a stooge of the koch brothers.
Will you nitwits stop using this excuse? He probably doesn't even know who the Koch Brothers are. I sure as hell don't.
Public sector unions are unconstitutional and immoral. You should not be able to strike against the very people who pay your wages to serve them. Good God. Think Air-Traffic Controllers circa 1981-82.
Uh, SE? He's so close to the Koch brothers he is perfectly used to getting direct phone calls from them.
And pray tell, which article or amendment of the U.S. Constitution do unions violate? Please be specific.
Must be nice to be self employed: you can give yourself a big pay raise anytime you want, right?
The ONLY pay raises that workers have EVER had is a direct result of the ability to strike against those who pay them. Otherwise, the workers would be powerless. WHAT minimum wage? WHAT safety rules to protect worker's lives? WHAT clean water/toilet facilities to use while you're on the job? WHAT EIGHT HOUR DAYS WITH A WEEKEND? WHAT CHILD LABOUR LAWS? You mean that your ten-year old isn't coming in (at a quarter of the cost of an adult in the family per hour)?
OUTRAGE! BUSINESSES ARE 'UNDER ATTACK'!!!! Go back to the dark ages and read some of the headlines and the stories in the industrial city newspapers. That will make your self employed vision blur somewhat.
He probably doesn't know who the Koch brothers are? Not only does he know who they are, he took a prank call believing he was talking to one, sharing private information such as how he had considered planting a troublemaker in the protest crowds, and also his plan to "trick the Senate Democrats by inviting them back to the capital to listen to their concerns and then use their appearance in the capital to declare a quorum and resume session, whether or not they attend. 'If you heard I was going to talk to them that’s the only reason why,' he said."--NYTimes
FYI The brothers also support [are major contributors for] the Americans for Prosperity, which has strongly backed Governor Walker's efforts to curb the powers of unions. --Factcheck.org, NYTimes
WRONG!
Remember, Scott Walker was scammed by a guy on the phone pretending to be one of the Koch brothers right after the election. Walker took the call and proceeded to have a conversation with the alleged Mr. Koch. The call was recorded and the recording was sent to the media, who shared it with us little people.
Scott Walker knows very well who the Koch brothers are. Wouldn't you get to know the folks throwing money at you?
WRONG AGAIN!
Sorry, unions in the public sector are neither unconstitutional nor immoral. If they were, wouldn't the Governor of Wisconsin also have gone after the police and/or fire unions? He did not because doing so would have been politically unpalatable.
May, 1933 Adolf Hitler abolishes unions.
March, 2011 Scott Walker abolishes unions
History has a way of repeating itself
Maybe the citizens of America should figure out what all koch brothers own and boycott it all!! If there is one thing that hurts is when someone messes with your income intake!!
Ooops... guess a koch brother boycott would not work!!
The conglomerate boasts “four terminals and strategically located pipelines” through its Flint Hills Resources, LLC, which it describes as “a leading refining and chemicals company” that markets “gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, ethanol, olefins, polymers and intermediate chemicals, as well as base oils and asphalt.”
The Kochs’ Georgia Pacific paper and wood products division has six facilities in Wisconsin. Its C. Reiss Coal Company “is a leading supplier of coal used to generate power,” according to the Koch Web site. “The company has locations in Green Bay, Manitowoc, Ashland and Sheboygan.”
jp-456744
EXACTLY!!!!! (the under-lying and over-riding gist of the situation in a nutshell. end of conversation :))
As I sit here with the tv on in the background, I have heard Scott Walker 4-5 times in commercials in the last 20 minutes. He is telling us what a wonderful governor he is and all the good he has done for Wisconsin. I have to ask this question. Who is paying for all of this? I understand he has been traveling extensively the last few months, visiting his major campaign contributors, collecting money for his recall, as he criticizes the Democrats for taking out of state money (we have collected a small fraction of what he has.) Anyway, the Kochs are involved, but we would be mistaken if we believed they were the only ones. The Bradley Foundation contributes heavily to him. Many others as well. Are these people doing it because they love Wisconsin and want good things for the people of the state? Ask yourself what they expect to get from it all. It's not pretty.
Funny how MSNBC missed the story on the Washington D.C. Democrat who has been robbing the taxpayers for years isn't it?
Washington City Council member charged with theft, filing false returns
"Thomas embezzled, stole and obtained by fraud property worth at least $353,000 belonging to the District of Columbia. He is charged with theft concerning programs receiving federal funds.
The thefts began at least as early as April 2007 and continued until at least February 2009, the documents say.
Thomas is also charged with filing false tax returns for 2007, 2008 and 2009, saying his income was below what he actually received."
http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/05/us/dc-council-member/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
Once a Democrat always untrustworthy.
Pjam, where did you get the info he was a Demo? Ever seen a tea bagger that was trustworthy? I got that info from the same place you got yours.
Pjam, I see your Democrat City Council member and raise you a Republican former Congressman...
Siljander pleads guilty in Islamic American Relief Agency lobbying case
By R. Jeffrey Smith
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, July 8, 2010
Yesterday (1/11/12) he was sentenced to a year in Federal Prison.
I hope our friends in WI will send Walker back to the koch Brothers and undo every thing Walker did to help pay back the money Koch's gave to him. Walker is in deep to Koch's, They Installed Walker and we all know it. When the people find out that Walker gave the rest of the states power plants to the Koch Brothers for little or nothing, then maybe the little bastard will go to jail for fraud and taking bribes, well that one wont work as t he High Courts have made that legal now. At least here In Michigan, our new Governor isn't going down that same road as Walker and the Governor or Ohio. Good Luck WI. Take your state back from the Koch brothers.
Not only will we send him packing, but along with some of buddies in the Capitol. We will win and we will send a message to all those other states that facing the same radical ideologies from the GOP GOV's
And by the way the Unions will not be picking a person to run against him it will be the PEOPLE OF WI and the DEMOCRATIC PARTY. Don't you just love it how he spins things around, fool.
He will withstand the challege, the majority of wisconsin is with him. Public sector unions represent like 7% of the workforce in wisconsin.
Let alone the reforms have already provided positive results in the additional hiring of good teachers and staff members - no more of this lowest common demoninator b.s. that the union hiring squad produces.
Inhale deeply brendan. We all know how badly informed YOU are anyway.
As usual Brendan you are wrong, "
Gov. Scott Walker has lost support among his Republican base, according to a poll released Tuesday that shows a majority of respondents want to recall him from office.
The Wisconsin Public Radio/St. Norbert College Survey was released the same day that Democrats, labor unions and others, angry over his moves to curb union rights, began circulating petitions to get the 540,000 signatures needed to force a recall election next year.
The poll showed that 58 percent of respondents believe Walker should be recalled from office. That compares with 47 percent who said in April that he should be recalled."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2808350/posts
Steveo and Eric, get real. The only ones who want him out are Unions and Dems.
Lots of republicans want him out too Frank.
Hang in there Brendan. They cannot accept the truth. Union "rights" do not exist. They are a conflict of interest. Only in the government do people vote in the people who will steal our money to give to their voters. State government should not have anything to do with education. That is the community/municipalities responsibility.
Paul:
What country do you live in?
http://www.pelrb.state.nm.us/statute.html
http://www.dol.gov/oasam/programs/history/amworkerconclusion.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Labor_Relations_Act
Seriously. Did you just make that up?
@Bilweeler
Sure, union rights exist in the private sector. the union right to collectively bargain should not exist in the public sector as it is a confict of interest.
i find it funny that you link us to a NEW MEXICO state website, and the NLRA which secures union rights for the private sector.
shoot yourself in the foot more?
@Eric
I don't count left wing polls as any sort of evidence, neither should you.
Brendan:
You stated unequivocally that "Union "rights" do not exist."
You were unequivocally wrong.
Perhaps you should have said that you disagree with union rights, or that union rights should be abolished. If you had said that, you would not have diminished your credibility.
But you did.
BTW, the NM citation is because I wanted you to realize you live in a state ("Paul in NM") that requires collective bargaining for public employees. Read it carefully. NM REQUIRES collective bargaining for public employees.
@skip.... racketeering, the biggest legal organization of racketeers is the UNIONS.....
Brendan 4 is correct. Public Sector Unions are a conflict of interest. At least in Wisconsin 98%-99% of Union Dues is funnelled to the Democratic Party. These same politicians ("management") then sit across the bargaining table with Union officials. No one represents the taxpayers in these cozy negotiations.
What would happen to a UAW official if he was caught making payments to a member of GM's management negotiating team?
New Mexico is one of the most corrupt States going. Hopefully we will put Bill Richardson in jail. The Republican/conservatives made big gains last year. We are going to take the legislature this year. The progressives are in a real temper tantrum here. We, the Tea Party, will turn up the heat even more this year. This may be the year we become "right to work". Yes, Biwheeler, we noticed.
Poor Brendan you just can't get a lie in edgewise anywhere huh. Here's the support you say Walker has from the "majority" (you're being sarcastic right?) of people in WI.
You the Tea Party
The over hyped Tea Party - exploiters of dissatisfaction & anger they are more about screaming than anything else. A bunch of gun nuts, tax protesters (who don’t want to pay any tax at all) insurance company lobbyists, constitutionalists who have not read the Constitution, crazy “birthers” and a bunch of fat cat politicians pretending to be outsiders like the Caribou killing nitwit Sarah Palin and yes a contingent of racists. This is not a coherent intellectual or political force. They remind me of the Tea Party in Alice in Wonderland complete with Mad Hatters, ridicules costumes, a Dormouse, White Rabbit, a Knight who is talking backwards and a Red Queen (Palin) screaming off with their heads.
The Tea Party - LOL! They have accomplished absolutely NOTHING since their members were elected to the House creating the worst Congress in history. A better name would be the Pee Party running the Outhouse
@Ron in seattle
if you read further down from the same section you copy and pasted from:
So like even if you get 33% then you have to beat the other 66% in a general election.
So like ya, that majority i speak of is RIGHT THERE LOLOL
Witchking: Quite a rant! I knew all that. What's your solution? Tax the rich? You said nothing meaningful. I do hope you feel better. But we will not go away and we did take all those Senate, House and State legislatures back in 2010. Nothing as sweet as results. Look for us this year around November. You guys couldn't even overturn WI Senate. You don't think obama will win. Do You?
Paul...Turn off Faux and Rush & Hannity....read the news...all the news and you will see the Teaparty IS Toast. Where have you been your 25 years? Or are you Old stupid?
Paul from NM
You can't even beat Mitt Romney. The Tea Party is dead. You just don't know it yet. As to taxing the rich, yes. Since they got all the breaks and have made so much money the rest of the country has suffered. We can all argue what their fair share is but they obviously haven't been paying it. They are not and have never been the "job creators" you guys like to talk about. They facilitate jobs when the middle class (the true job creators in a consumer economy) make and spend money. Witchking was absolutly right in everthing he/she said. The Tea Parties empty rhetoric sounded great (to the ill-informed and the mis-informed) but when taken to it's logical conclusion was nothing more than idiotic, unworkable, unreasonable and disasterous policies that would have destroyed this country. The Tea party will be tossed into the harbor in 2012 in all but the most conservative corners of the US. Hope you enjoyed your 15 minutes of fame.
Majority of people on this site don't even live in Wisconsin, just like the majority of signatures that have been conjured up, kids underage signing, out of state signings, tombstone signings. When they are caught and verified I hope they are prosecuted also. Let the unions flip that bill too, oh good luck with that, they will throw you under the bus just like they do to the low seniority members.
Corporations create jobs, hire people. How many jobs do Unions create? About as many as Obama has...ZIP! How much more money are these unions gonna suck from the taxpayers? on recall after recall because they can't deal with losing a election. Majority of Wisconsonites spoke at the ballot box last November. Let the process play out and you will have your chance in 3 more years to make a change. UNTIL THEN QUIT WASTING OUR TIME AND OUR MONEY ON YOUR HIDDEN AGENDAS!
I have to say that at least Brendan-4 tried to make an educated rebulte. The rest of you fail Debate 101! There is no substance to your argument. Try giving us some evidence for your stance...Ooops! There is none. Like my debate teacher taught me long ago...There is no victory in defeating an unarmed opponent.
Collective bargaining is nothing more than a license to hold an entity hostage.
@Laura
If public sector pay is sooooo bad, then why not quit and join the private sector?
If a private company allows the unions to come in, then that is on them. Public sector unions, with the exception of Police, shouldn't even exist. Because of the work police do, and the sometimes difficult situation they find themselves in, having a union delegate to represent them is tantamount.
Teachers should have a merit system. Plain and simple. Good teacher, you get rewarded, bad teacher, you get the boot. It's all about the money. The idea of choosing a profession because you love what you are doing, doesn't exist in the American Psyche anymore. We want more money for doing less.
And pray tell me, why should public employees get an annual pay raise, when our men and women in uniform don't get the same consideration?
Look at the states who are in a fiscal mess, and you will find a bloated government.
The average Joe, is getting tired of the overbloated government budgets, thats Their money thats being spent, and getting little return on it.
I applaude Gov. Walker for doing the hard decisions.
Tea...Hard Decisions? Scottie Walker? The Cock Brothers paid him to make those assinine decisions. Not hard at all for the stooge.
Every one of you is missing the point!
Damn it! He was elected to serve the people. His decisions are unpopular, which means the people (who elected him) are not happy with his actions. If it was a minority, maybe you could make the case that only a few were causing trouble. But this represents 2/3 of the people.
What part of "unpopular" don't you understand here?
golfwesty
Can we all buy some of what you're smoking? Prove what you're saying or please go back to the bong.
The Milwaukee DA is now investigating three of his Milwaukee staff for CRIMINAL violations. Collective bargaining for public employees is off the table. Unless you're in one of the public unions that supported him. Then you get a pass. The guy's a crook and a bum. DUMP HIM!
Nope. Scott Walker effectively hung himself.
Unions do not care one bit about the workers...They only care about getting money from the workers! And why is it that they donate millions to candidates? Shouldn't that money be for the workers??
Unions are a scam!
Frank its obvious that you don"t know dick about unions!
@Frank,
Corporations do not care one bit about the workers...They only care about getting money from the workers! And why is it that they donate millions to candidates? Shouldn't that money be for the workers??
Corporations are a scam!
Walker's administration began the investigation of the staff before he left Milwaukee for Madison.
Eric- They both(corporate and public governance) are a scam, but they have the one thing in common.
You know what the sad thing is here? Everyone is backed into their corners, and fervently supporting their "side". There's no middle ground anymore. Guess what?
"Unions are a scam!" Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I have friends who have been left out in the cold by the unions they paid big money into for years. I also have friends who swear loyalty and their first born child.
"Corporations are a scam!" Sometimes yes, sometimes no. The company I work for is great. Been here almost 20 years. Have I seen people get screwed over by big corps? Of course.
The sad truth is that as long as people color themselves hardcore red or blue, nothing is going to change. We'll continue to become more divided than ever. The "big boys" of government, the unions, corporations etc, are towering above us fighting, and we're all getting flattened under their feet. Yet we choose no recourse but to bicker with each other and turn on the people that are in the same sinking boat we're in.
I wonder what would happen if everyone from both sides of the fence would come together, and turn their energy and efforts on both the unions and corporations?
Mikk, I appreciate your efforts to find the middle ground, and it's applaudable. The downside is that it would be like mixing vinegar and baking soda. It gets explosive.
The problem with the anti-union argument is that most people have a totally wrong set of "facts." The only money "funneled" to political parties through the unions is by direct contribution outside of the union dues. It would be no different if a private citizen donates money privately to a candidate. Admittedly, the union will collect those contributions and give them to the candidates, but it is not done on the backs of the dues.
Further, the folks who are public union workers DO pay into their retirement at almost double the rate of the private workers. I believe SS is something like 6% of the pay, while state workers pay 10% or more DIRECTLY from their paychecks. The same goes for insurance benefits. Yes, state/public workers get fairly decent plan benefits, but then again, they are a big working sector and can negotiate with insurance companies to get a lower rate, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER BIG CORPORATION.
For some reason, I get the impression that many people think that state/public workers are just paid by the tax revenue from the states' coffers. This is somewhat true. However, state/public workers EARN their pay. They work for it, just like everyone else who works. It's not a free handout. If Joe works for you, the private employer, you will pay your share of corporate taxes, unemployment, SS, worker's comp, etc. for Joe. The state/public does the same thing for its employees. It's not some empty handout. State/public employees earn their wages. Their employer is just the giant "corporation" of the state.
I'm not a teacher, however, I have served as a substitute teacher (a long time ago.) Anyone, and I mean ANYONE, who thinks that teachers don't earn their pay, is the stupidest creature on the planet. I double dog dare ANYONE to teach a class of third graders, for even one day, and say it was easy. Third graders will eat you alive. Of course, you will find a dud teacher here and there; but by in large, teachers are the unsung heroes of our culture. Teachers have every right to stand together against those who assail them. We don't pay them enough to put up with what they do on a daily basis.
Most teachers have master's degrees. What is a master's degree worth in the private sector? $75-100K? Most teachers don't make anywhere near that much. Working 9 months of the year? Most districts negotiate a 9-month contract, and then they divide out the pay over a 12 month pay period. (That way you have a steady pay over a year's time--but the contract is only for the school year. )
Now that I've done a little bit of spelling out the actual way things work, let me address the Walker problem. Here in Ohio, we have the Kasich problem. Same problem, different Koch follower. Walker and Kasich both have a vote of NO CONFIDENCE. They thought they could pull the wool over everyone's eyes, and they darned near pulled it off. Both have been so busy causing divisive trouble that neither have done one thing to pull people together to work for the common good. In one year, they have both failed to accomplish any substantial and/or positive results to strengthen their states or their states' economies.
Corporations and businesses have run away because they see the oppositional forces at work. The issues have become so polarized that the vinegar and soda will never peacefully mix. It will take decades to fix these wounds--and that's a sad legacy.
Frank Unions are a scam..??? just like the 1% and the Rep. Party. We the people are awake now. Just watch in Nov.
I think you have unions confused with the churches.
Zapper!!!! Fox News like Hannity & O'Reilly never explain it like you did, gee when I heard Scott Walker on Hannity come to think of it, he didn't explain it that way either, gee, I'm confused what side do I take?? YES, NO, YES, NO. Oh crap I can't make up my mind!! I'll have to go to my other side of of conviction and say that FOX news only tells the WHOLE truth 10% of the time!!!
Hi Paul. Thank heavens I'm not Hannity, O'Reilly or any other of those talking heads. LOL. I would love to know who does their "research" for them. Federal law prohibits directly taking union dues to make political contributions. Who ever made up that stuff should be taught how to look something up. I work for the state. I can show you my paystub where I pay more than 10% into my pension; same goes for insurance. Black and white documentation--straight down the line. Teacher contracts--you bet. Black and white. Third graders?--I have a few battle scars, but I'm a tough old bat. (BTW, I have two masters' degrees, and I don't make anywhere near what they are supposedly valued at in the private sector. The only reason I stay where I am is that it's relatively stable, and I can retire in a couple of years--with the money I PAID into my pension, not anyone else.)
What gets me is how stupid the public is to be fooled by the talking heads and politicians. I hate it when people quit thinking for themselves. In this day and age, where we literally have all the facts and figures right at our finger tips, and no one uses them to verify reality, just boggles my mind.
Oh well, I'm not talented enough to make up so much fiction as what politicians and television smear out onto the waves. I must depend on reality and the truth. My memory is not good enough to keep up with all the other convoluted lies. What a sad society we have become to embrace such outrageous falsehoods, when the truth/reality of the situation are just as evident and straightforward.
I doubt Walker will survive the recall. To much time and effort has been put in by people who are really upset with him.
Quite a few of these elected officials who were highly funded by Crossroads GPS, the Koch Brothers and the Walton Family, were put into office to rid big business of the Trade Unions and Environmental Restrictions. In 2010 the electorate was largley apathetic and the result was various states got stuck with big business henchmen like Walker. The result is what happens when people do not vote, big business gets the mine and the voters get the shaft. I think the public is waking up as witnessed by OWS. Since Ronald Reagan the Republican Party has had a full out assault on the Unions and as the Unions have been depleted the middle class has been depleted with them. The result is record corporate profits and a middle class with less and less disposable income with more and more people living below the poverty line.
The middle class is fine. Government spending has bankrupted the country. Businesses create the jobs and pay taxes. Unions have outlived their usefulness. You conspiracy guys need to take a deep breath and figure out why so many hate you. Maybe you are in the wrong. Conservatives just want to be left alone. We do not want to pay for your mistakes.
I have no dog in this fight but the middle class is not "fine":
The 22 statistics prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the middle class is being systematically wiped out of existence in America.
The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer at a staggering rate. Once upon a time, the United States had the largest and most prosperous middle class in the history of the world, but now that is changing at a blinding pace.
So why are we witnessing such fundamental changes? Well, the globalism and "free trade" that our politicians and business leaders insisted would be so good for us have had some rather nasty side effects. It turns out that they didn't tell us that the "global economy" would mean that middle class American workers would eventually have to directly compete for jobs with people on the other side of the world where there is no minimum wage and very few regulations. The big global corporations have greatly benefited by exploiting third world labor pools over the last several decades, but middle class American workers have increasingly found things to be very tough.
Here are the statistics to prove it:
• 83 percent of all U.S. stocks are in the hands of 1 percent of the people.
• 61 percent of Americans "always or usually" live paycheck to paycheck, which was up from 49 percent in 2008 and 43 percent in 2007.
• 66 percent of the income growth between 2001 and 2007 went to the top 1% of all Americans.
• 36 percent of Americans say that they don't contribute anything to retirement savings.
• A staggering 43 percent of Americans have less than $10,000 saved up for retirement.
• 24 percent of American workers say that they have postponed their planned retirement age in the past year.
• Over 1.4 million Americans filed for personal bankruptcy in 2009, which represented a 32 percent increase over 2008.
• Only the top 5 percent of U.S. households have earned enough additional income to match the rise in housing costs since 1975.
• For the first time in U.S. history, banks own a greater share of residential housing net worth in the United States than all individual Americans put together.
• In 1950, the ratio of the average executive's paycheck to the average worker's paycheck was about 30 to 1. Since the year 2000, that ratio has exploded to between 300 to 500 to one.
• As of 2007, the bottom 80 percent of American households held about 7% of the liquid financial assets.
• The bottom 50 percent of income earners in the United States now collectively own less than 1 percent of the nation’s wealth.
• Average Wall Street bonuses for 2009 were up 17 percent when compared with 2008.
• In the United States, the average federal worker now earns 60% MORE than the average worker in the private sector.
• The top 1 percent of U.S. households own nearly twice as much of America's corporate wealth as they did just 15 years ago.
• In America today, the average time needed to find a job has risen to a record 35.2 weeks.
• More than 40 percent of Americans who actually are employed are now working in service jobs, which are often very low paying.
• or the first time in U.S. history, more than 40 million Americans are on food stamps, and the U.S. Department of Agriculture projects that number will go up to 43 million Americans in 2011.
• This is what American workers now must compete against: in China a garment worker makes approximately 86 cents an hour and in Cambodia a garment worker makes approximately 22 cents an hour.
• Approximately 21 percent of all children in the United States are living below the poverty line in 2010 - the highest rate in 20 years.
• Despite the financial crisis, the number of millionaires in the United States rose a whopping 16 percent to 7.8 million in 2009.
• The top 10 percent of Americans now earn around 50 percent of our national income.
Voting Independent, beautifully written. People want to blame easy targets: unions, welfare recipients, the unemployed. They won't blame corporations because it's too complicated and confusing for them. They don't get how the "Global Economy" and "Emerging Markets" have been major contributors to destroying our middle class.
Well, at least I appreciated your post. Thanks
Voting independent.......
Thanks for providing evidence for what is known (or admitted) by all but the most ignorant and/or dishonest fraction of our population.
Capitalism, like most things, has two faces. When it is used (it is, after all, only a tool) with wisdom and concern for the many (rather than only the few), it is a sound and efficient system. However, when it (capitalism) is unregulated it quickly becomes a vehicle by which a tiny few amass wealth and power to the detriment of the many. That wealth and power can be quickly used to dismantle the "inconvenient" checks and balances that democracy affords.
The right-wing extremists (particular the super wealthy) have seen a problem (for their supremacy) looming in the future. That problem is the changing demographics that they, ironically, have caused. As they have systematically drained resources from the middle class (by unfairly influencing legislation and regulations at all levels) the (former) middle class and the poor have become increasingly unwilling to tolerate further robbery. Thus, the elites (by their minions i.e Walker) have undertaken a crash program to undermine and dismantle middle and lower class organizations (such as trade unions) as well as pursue mechanisms which disenfranchise those classes through poll taxes and other mechanisms aimed at impeding and/or discouraging voting by those classes.
This is a war folks. Make no mistake about it. It is a class war. But, it was not asked for nor started by the middle or lower classes. It was started by and for the wealthy class decades ago and has only recently come fully into the focus of its targets (the non-wealthy). It may seem like social fiction. But, it is not. It is a real and present danger to the fundamental freedoms we Americans have (unfortunately) taken for granted.
Those of you in the middle and lower classes should think long and hard about this. Your future, the futures of your children, and the future of our nation depends upon your clear thought, wisdom, and, most importantly, your democratic action. We must stop them now before they become too powerful.
Fair wages for a day's work was usurped by corporate greed. It is this greed IMHO that exacerbates the income inequality in America. It was this expectations that brought millions of immigrants to our shores many of whom have built legacies under American law and infrastructure. When the Ben and Jerry's of the world return to corporate governance and the Corporate Social Contract is resurrected from the $300K trash bins will we realize a return of the American Dream. When corporations realize by spreading the wealth they perpetuate their own then we will make a dent in income inequality.
But GREED is king of the day and the market is vastly interested in who can provide the biggest bang in the shortest amount of time. Before Wall Street invaded the board room Americans could work 30 years and retire from one job. Those days are gone.
Funny how MSNBC missed the story on the Washington D.C. Democrat who has been robbing the taxpayers for years isn't it?
Washington City Council member charged with theft, filing false returns
"Thomas embezzled, stole and obtained by fraud property worth at least $353,000 belonging to the District of Columbia. He is charged with theft concerning programs receiving federal funds.
The thefts began at least as early as April 2007 and continued until at least February 2009, the documents say.
Thomas is also charged with filing false tax returns for 2007, 2008 and 2009, saying his income was below what he actually received."
http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/05/us/dc-council-member/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
Once a Democrat always untrustworthy.
Thank you pjam, now go somewhere else and stay on topic.
Former aide to Governor Scott Walker arrested, charged with two felonies
http://www.doorcountyadvocate.com/article/20120105/OSH0101/120105051/Former-aide-Governor-Scott-Walker-arrested-charged-two-felonies
Paul,
What has bankrupted the country is two tax cuts during two wars lasting over ten years. Tax cuts plus increased spending are a recipe for hyperactive fiscal disaster. But conservatives have a name for this technique. "Starve the beast." In essence, the strategy is to bankrupt the government coffers and use that as a justification to decrease the size and scope of government. Reagan's people conceived of this idea, which is why we've had out of control deficits since the 80's.
Pragmatic-3918582.....
You do not elaborate but, may we infer that the rationale behind the "starve the beast" strategy is to remove government as an impediment to the unbridled accumulation of wealth and power by the wealthy and corporate classes?
"Standing up for the Middle Class" someone should have told the idiot that a lot of the middle classes work for unions. Does America really want to go back to the days when there were no workers rights. Send the guy packing and to the back of the unemployment line.
You liberal/socialists will never learn. He is standing up for the tax paying citizens of WI who pay the salaries of the bloated underworked bureaucracy. He balanced the budget and let municipalities balance their own books. You progressives would rather have a top down, dictatorial government. I want community governance and that is all conservatives and the Tea Party want. Your schools are terrible. Your healthcare and higher Ed is too expensive and every thing else that is falling apart is because liberal/democratic/progressive politicians have run it into the ground yet you refuse to see it through your own selfishness. What a sorry bunch you are. You do not even believe in democracy. You want to keep redoing elections until you win. What sore losers.
No, he's not standing up for the tax paying citizens. he's enforcing a draconian rule of the far right wing.
The unions that he's trying to kill were willing to give up every $$ he was asking for, and most had already agreed to the $$ cuts - yet he still calls them evil and 'entitlements'.
The only evil I see here is the evil of arrogance where he thinks that he is the only one who is right here.
Yes - unions have often over-reached over the last 20 years. However, after a natural resistance to change, they have either come around or are coming around to the new reality and are working WITH instead of against reasonable reforms.
However - the constant diatribe of the imagined and exaggurated evils of 'unions' trying to force everyone to re-imagine the problems with unions as 'the over-arching evil that is destroying this country' is as bad as the evils your type are trying to force us to believe exist.
Are there problems with unions, yes. Are unions often bullies that get more than they should? yes. Are they learning that they have to play nice? Yes.
Are the anti-union people learning to play nice? Hell no. They're becoming bigger problems than the unions themselves are.
You Nazi's on the right don't give a rats ass about the people in this country. Unless of course you are rich,white and goose step to the tune of the Koch Brothers.I think it is funny that the Police and Firefighter unions that gave money to this idiot, were not effected by the new law. It is also humorous that the Police and Firefighters Unions are leading the charge to recall this right wing fool..Anyone that makes less than 50,000 dollars a year and votes for the rethugs are shooting themselves in the foot.
Come on leatherneck. You don't think the ultimate arrogance is the liberal/progressives who lose an election and then refuse to operate the government. Recall instead of compromise. Take a look at the country Sarge. It's a mess. Bankrupt. Partisan. Walker has the legislature with him. He is not the only one. The courts supported him. People some how think it is all arranged by the Koch Brothers. Thousands of out of state people, unions, agitators and money over whelmed the legal government of WI. That isn't democracy. It is petulant anarchy. By the way. USMC Sgt. 66-69. Semper FI. PS: why do you think government worker taxpayers deserve more than just plain taxpayers who really foot the bill?
Bloated undereworked bureacracy?? What planet are you from? I know a lady who works for the fed and spends 12+ hours a day at her job. She even keeps a cot in her office for those nights when it's too late and useless to go home only to get up a few hours and do it all over again. You should not pass judgement when you have no clue what someone does for a living. You are the threat to our democracy my friend; not the overworked public sector! Give me a break! I'm sick of hearing the undereducated right scream for the worker to give more than their fair share (and that's ecaxtly what you are doing) while the CEO's of large corporations keep the middle class from ever getting an edge up. God help us if we ever go back to pre-union times when the workers feared for their lives and died a much younger age....
You liberals are crazy. And I used to be one of you! Wowza, didn't realize how misinformed I was. I wonder what the guy (current Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett) who ran against him in the election would have done WITHOUT Walker. BECAUSE of Walkers sensible reforms, Barrett was able to BALANCE the city of Milwaukee's budget just like the State of Wisconsin did. Barrett used the reforms he was against to save his city millions. I got an idea for all you liberals. Go out, get a credit card, then get another, and another, and another, and another and 10 more and run up the balances on all of them 'til you are maxed out. . .live like a true liberal, on other people's money!
Wow, how much propaganda can you believe, i have watched groups like the "tea party" nutcases as they parade around spewing their idiotic ideas - and yes, i do mean they are ALL nuts. Its obvious you get your world views from only one news channel, by the way you CAPITAIZED, their buzz words. i guess when you want something slanted your way why not jump on the band wagon and play follow the leader and make sure you don't ask questions, if you do you might find out the wizard is not who he seems to be.
Yeah, it's all the liberals fault. Get a life, idiot.
Paul....ho humm get over it already. Wrong side is wrong side..and buddy you are on the wrong (& loosing) side of this. Times are a changing. Wait and see.
Oh, wait, I'm wrong about everything! Those creationist, global warming denying, intelligent (?) design, I don't want to have to pay taxes for anything because it's immoral, believing in supporting the constitution except for the parts they don't like teapartiers have got things figured out!
Paul from NM
The republicans have been mostly in control of the governnment for the past 30 years. How is this mess the liberals fault. In California we used to have the best schools in the nation. Collage was practically free. Then along came Reagan. We now have close to the worst schools and universities are a fortune. Trace back almost all our ills and they point right to Reagan and supply side economics. Yes Clinton was responsible for free trade as well but it wouldn't have happened without the republican congress. You want to debate theory, go ahead. You can't debate reality.
Instead of destroying avg. income municipal workers and teachers that are "under worked" as you say, let's just get rid of athletics in schools, how much money would be saved if Wisconsin or any other state just abolished high school football, and all other sports for that matter. The ole private sector approach has been tried like the Phoenix area that eliminated garbage and collection and subcontracted to "private" companies which means the lowest bid of course, ask the citizens of Phoenix what garbage smells like in 110 degree heat when their garbage hasn't been picked up in 3 weeks!!! Thankyou Scott Walkers of the USA.
Don the Liberal,
I also live in California and you must live in a different California than I do. The California I live in has been dominated by Democrats for the last 30+ years, and in that time we have seen skyrocketing costs for unions that now BILLIONS unfunded, we pay the medical, housing and education for illegals, companies have been fleeing California for over the past 15 years, and now we are going to be spending $100million to put a tax hike referendum on the ballot. We WERE the 5th largest economy in the world...guess what...we are now 11th... In all this time we did not have one Republican majority in the legislature...so I ask you..who is at fault?
This from south Texas, Walker..to the point...I personally hope you & yours are decimated at least to the same extent you sought to disenfranchise all those individuals & families, teachers, civil servants & others affected by the single minded authoritarian power-grab that you sought to foment in Wisconsin.. I hope to see your state turn sold B L U E ! You deserve it....................
So the unions are causing the recall? My wife and I aren't union members , yet we and many non union friends support the recall. Wasn't it the 2 Koch brothers that dictated all his policy changes? Isn't it the Koch brothers who are paying for and running all the ads supporting Walker? And aren't those Koch brothers just doing the work of their father and the John Birch Society? Who does Walker represent? That is the real Walker.
Get a life. You are laughable. You have no idea who pays for what. It is not the governments responsibility to subsidize with welfare anyone. That is what you call fascism when you force one part of the public to support the other. You guys just call it 'government'.
That's the funniest part - the Koch brothers architected the attempted destruction of public unions in WI.
If Soros had even thought of doing something similar - these right wingers would be screaming 'how dare he - he's evil'.
Yet they ignore the fact that the Koch brothers are manipulating things behind the scene - as badly as Soros (or worse).
Paul:
Did you just make that up? Because it's demonstrably false.
No it is not false. Demonstrate how it is false. You do not think me being forced to buy health insurance isn't fascist? It is not fascist that obama stole GM and now the majority stock holders are the government and the UNIONS? Fascism is what Eisenhower called the "military/Industrial complex. He should have said Government/Industrial complex. And by the way at least Sarge mentioned that Soros is involved in destroying the US.
Read the definition of fascism. I gave you the link, at least you could take the time to read it.
Then show me where in the definition it says that fascism "is when you force one part of the public to support the other."
You're entitled to your opinion. You're not entitled to make stuff up.
Good luck.
Great point, Walker claims that the unions will pick their person, which is suppose to be worse than Koch brothers picking their guy, Walker. Personally I thought the person who thinks they can win enough votes to get elected makes the choice to run. I vote how I feel about the person, not who someone tells me I should vote for, which is how it should be.
Collective is just that, a group of people with one voice. It's not an expensive entitlement, It's freedom, plain and simple. If a person doesn't like union's don't join one. The public has many false beliefs of what today's unions do for it's members. Things that many companies refuse to do and or provide. Retirement and health care being the main things.....
Since I disapprove of using Wikipedia as a citation ... but since Paul from NM seems to not know what Fascism is, here are FOUR links (with the definition cut and pasted from THREE) to define the term for him (please note that I include Merriam-Webster, Cambridge and Oxford in these links):
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism
fas·cism
[fash-iz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) a governmental system ledby a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressingopposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce,etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and oftenracism.
2.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) the philosophy, principles, ormethods of fascism.
3.
( initial capital letter ) a fascist movement, especially the oneestablished by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism
(won't let me cut text)
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/fascism?q=fascism
Fascism noun
/ˈfæʃ.ɪ.zÉ™m/ [U]
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/fascism?q=fascism" target="_blank" class="twitter-btn" alt="tweet this entry" title="tweet this entry">
Definition
a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control and being extremely proud of country and race, and in which political opposition is not allowed
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fascism?q=fascism
fascism
Pronunciation:/ˈfaʃɪz(ə)m, -sɪz(ə)m/
noun
[mass noun]
an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
(in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practices:this is yet another example of health fascism in action
Most of the obama supporters are minorities. Diversity is just an anti-American plot in todays PC lingo. Same with "multiculturalism. Nazism/Fascism is total government control: obama; unions; I am a middle of the road Tea Party member. I believe in the Constitution. It says the States and the people have the ultimate power. The people in WI wanted a balanced budget. They got it. National Unions and obama did not like it. They are forcing an issue there. IE: they did not like the outcome of a fair election So they overturn it. That is not democracy or representative republic. That is Fascism/socialism/communism. Basically, you want a dictatorial partner in the governorship that will steal YOUR power back from the people that fairly voted you out. Real American of you guys.
Paul:
You sound like one of those boobs that think all taxes are immoral. Well, that's a good example of the saying that every complex problem has a simple, easy to understand wrong solution. The logical end of your arguments is that no one should be compelled to pay any taxes. That's a very simple philosophical position with the flaw that it doesn't work. And if you don't understand why it doesn't work you are beyond reason (like many conservatives).
You remind me of Ayn Rand getting on Medicare.
Oh Paul needs to be time wharped back to the Roman Empire when you had to pay a tax for the air one breathes, the old Roman AIR TAX.
"Most of Obama's supporters are minorities." Paul of NM
You just lost all your credibility. Bye Bye Paul.
Paul,
You do know that these are three completely different things right?
Recall elections are up to the state and approved by representatives of the people. They are 100% legal and pro-states' rights. The people will vote and get their voice heard according to the laws set forth by the people in the state of WI. Laws that were passed by elected representatives of the people. It is democracy and a representative republic. If you don't like it, just say so. Don't make false claims.
Pragmatic:
Actually, Paul DOESN'T know that. He just makes stuff up. And he doesn't really care. He's just a useful echo chamber for the right wing blowhards.
And he isn't interested in facts.
Good Luck Gov. Walker! The Unions at one time were a great aid to workers. Now the Unions are like drug dealers nothing more than leechs on society. With the employment laws in this country Unions are outmoded.
Sounds more like the Tea Party to me.
And your point is? Tea Party RULES!!!
Oh really! And when did they stop being a great aid to workers? Was it when Ronald Reagan declared war on unions by threatening to fire all of the striking air traffic controllers if they didn't report to their jobs by a certain date? Maybe you don't realize what a big roll of the dice he took on that one. His trump card was that being Commander in Chief, he could've utilized the military to keep certain airports open. Not nearly enough to handle all of the commercial air traffic that goes on a daily basis. Had the ATC's called his bluff, this nation may have come to a standstill until a fair agreement was reached, and your hero's legacy may not be so well loved nowadays.
He didn't just threaten. He canned 11,000 of them.
I don't know about "declaring war on the unions" either. The union walked out first, which was against the law.
13,000 controllers walked off the job which resulted in 7,000 flights being cancelled that day. 2 days later Reagan canned 11,000 striking controllers. Supervisors, non-striking controllers, and military controllers had 80% of scheduled flights operating normally within days.
He called their bluff, and he was right.
Those Air Traffic controllers never did get their jobs back either.
That's what happens when you make 20-50k/yr and the union demands a pay increase of 10k. Which equates to a 20-50% pay increase.
Oh and the Feds also imposed a fine of $1million/day against the union as well.
Reagan fires 11,000 striking air traffic controllers Aug. 5, 1981
The controllers broke the law. Their union broke the law. Unions are a plague on our country. obama makes up his own law as he goes along. He is a disgrace and will be impeached. Also, recall Walker and you will bankrupt WI.
Paul:
Still making stuff up, I see.
That would be big news. So please link me to the Articles of Impeachment that have been drawn up. If he's going to be impeached, I want to see the Articles. Now.
The GOP would gladly have drafted them, if they had ANY justification whatsoever to do so. But they haven't. And they won't.
Because they can't. And they know it.
Forgot to add that 2 months later the Federal Labor Relations Authority decertified the union. I guess they didn't have any members that could afford the dues without a job.
I have read so much false and uninformed comments here that its hilarious. Do any of you Koch brothers bashers have any idea how much the Wisconsin state retirement fund has invested in them? This is the money all these state employees want to retire on, yes, this is the same "profits" that the liberals are so against yet they probably would like to retire some day as well. Government, corporations and working people are so intertwined and invested in each other that they all need each other.
There are no lazier people in this world than Union members. I know for a fact... I've traveled the world.
really? I'm 3rd generation union, you know the ones that brought you child labor laws, 40 hr work weeks, paid vacation, etc! I don't know what unions you are talking about, but you need to know what you running your gums about before you do. The union people that I work around and employ are some of the hardest working people that I've ever seen! And by the way, I've lived overseas off and on for 25 years.
You are part of the problem.
How's that ? By working 60 plus hours a week? Or by employing 12 workers? Or by spending 10 years of my life serving in the army? Or by doing my homework and knowing what I'm talking about before I open my pie-hole? Please, do elaborate.
Good grief!! The trolls are getting worse and worse. The TP/GOP is getting desperate for anyone with a quarter ounce of brain to spread their fascist messages.
You guys are REALLY funny. Who pays for all this public largesse? Who defines "rich"? What is a "fair share"? The main reason GM is out of business is it's labor and benefits were double those of japan and the corporate tax rates are the highest in the world. By supporting the downfall of American business, obama and all unions and their supporters are part of the problem. Don't whine about child labor, 40 hour weeks etc. That's like the idiots that say we want no government say we do not want roads. I want roads. I do not want Medicaid or other welfare. Police and fire are great. Municipalities and counties pay for that in my property and sales tax. Big government has to get out of the way. PS: Desertdude: Do not give away the store to your employees. You are the one who deserves to be well off. If you treat them too good they take advantage of you.
How about the day trader who sits all day and lets a computer program determine what and when to buy and what and when to sell. The hardest work they do is to go to the bathroom. They probably have automatic deposit also. Boredom could be a real problem however.
Some people have a work ethic, some don't. It has nothing to do with being a union member. ZEEK
Take a look at Detroit and see what good unions have done.
And I could say there are no greedier people than management but where does that leave us? Should we try to abolish management?
By the way, about union political contributions... those are fair game when corporate political contributions are under the same gun.
Now any sane person should be worried about the size of the federal deficit. It obviously can't continue indefinitely... so I was initially drawn to the teapartiers.... until I realized just how high the concentration of yahoos and boneheads actually was. Now I want no part of them. Give me occupy any day.
Jimcolorado-2047646
Show us your facts.I'm sure you worked in all kinds of union and non-union shops around the world,just to make a point.And I don't mean management.
I hope they throw him out!!!! It's time the tide turns back to electing
democrats, and getting a majority. I also wish that the US Senate would get
a majority of democrats, then they could just do what they wanted to do, just like
the republicans did when George was there. It really was disgusting what they did to this
country. Good old boys playing with and losing your money.
Another uniformed Demwit aren't we. The Demwits control the Senate and controlled everything Obama's first two years and American finally came to its senses.
The country went in the tank when Reid and Pelosi took over in 2006. Bush did help. The Senate already is controlled by liberals. It won't be next year. You have to start knowing what you are talking about. Oh.. Sorry. Your a liberal. You do not have to know anything.
M.O.M and Paul....The gop/baggers days are numbered. WE do see and will throw thw bums out. BTW I used to be one of U GOPers Never again. Grow up and Grow a pair...there is still time.
Praysalot, you give me hope for the future. What was it that made you enlightened?
I live in WI. My neighbors and I can only discuss our support of Walker behind closed doors. Why? Union thugs and the like have made public discourse a hate crime. Suddenly we are made out to hate teachers, kids and sugar coated candies. It's bullying, period. I am glad that I will not have to pay more in taxes to cover the 3+ billion dollar budget overage and I pray the silent majority in WI speaks up at the elections. We did it in the last recall, we did it with Prosser, let's do it one more time so we can finally move on as a state!
GeeThanks - Ditto on that! Kenosha here. You are absolutely correct. I am 60 and was verbally and harshly chastised by a college child because I refused to sign a recall petition. Peaceful group of folks..
There is a group called Verify the Recall that is going to work dilligently to verify that all of the signatures are in fact legit.
They plan on making a public database of the names on the petition so those who didn't sign can check to make sure they didn't in fact show up on the petition. I wouldn't doubt a well-intentioned although misguided youth would sign their parents' names on the petition.
Additionally you can complete a "No Sign Registration" which you can complete on their website.
This essentially allows you to sign your name saying you didn't and won't sign a petition and allows them to check names against the names on the petitions once the lists finally do become available.
The state has flat out said they will not be verifying the names on the petitions, but they do have to review any that are challenged by the public, hence the necessity for a non-profit organization to verify the recall petitions.
Good for you. But, get out and go nose to nose with them. Go with friends and record what goes on. Speak out. We are in a fight for our country.
GeeThanks, Sorry to hear about the feeling that your view is considered a hate crime. I would like to add though that Walker publicly admitted to Congress that his attack wasn't about balancing the budget. FYI look down south in Alabama, Mississippi or any other Right To Work State as for the "Walker plan example" and look at how well them States are doing in Education scores, or budgets. If the state can attract quality teachers without the offer of decent pay and benefits, that's great. I do know that to get the education necessary to become a teacher isn't getting cheaper. Not trying to say your wrong with your support, but a coin has two sides as do politicians. I don't think he would have won the election if he would have been forthcoming about his plan to balance the budget.
I am a volunteer to collect signatures for the recall here in WI. Every one I collected I made sure they are a registered voter and the form filled out correctly. Every single one was happy to sign and thanked me for giving my time for the recall. I checked out drivers license and addresses to make sure they are who they are. Not all have done so to that extent. We want a clean ethical recall. Never did I ask anyone to sign, they stopped and willing signed. I was asked by many to visit their elderly parents home so they could sign the petitions. I did so and even received two thank you cards for my effort. People who live in this state are sick of the backdoor politics and our current government. What Walker has done to this state is wrong. The 14 Demswho left the state last year did so because of the non budget bill included had no right to be included and wanted the public to know exactly what happening behind closed doors. Thank God for their courage to do so.
D Russ-I live in WI. You describe a minority of people "sick of backdoor politics......." Of course right now the recall people are making all the noise. Same thing last Spring with the State Supreme Court election. You would have thought Kloppenburg would win by a landslide but she didn't. Typical of Democrat sore-loser mentality she requested a recount that cost the taxpayers about $800K. Had she had even a shred of class she could have limited her recount to Waukesha County only, since before all those votes were counted she (prematurely) declared victory-then looked like a fool.
The Recall will fail because: 1. The Dems/Unionists have no candidate 2. The Dems/Unionists have no economic plan. 3. They cannot oppose Walker's reforms without raising taxes significantly
Get used to it. Walker is just what is needed in every state and the federal government. We need to get out the chain saw and start cutting. We got a problem and it is a fat, bloated, government that waste trillions of hard earned dollars. We can't allow government unions to buy politicians who in turn gives the union workers all the perks that the middle class does not have. It's a corrupt system.
Go Governor Walker. You did the right thing. I would like to flush the unions right down the toilet in every state. Right to Work Laws are the only fair way to go.
Only individualscan legally enter into contracts. A corporation is a legal "person" that aggregates a group of actual individuals and allows them to enter into contracts as an "individual". A corporation can therefore enter into contracts for labor with each actual individual they hire. This places each individual into competition with every other individual for the available work, allowing the company to set the price at the lowest it can regardless of how much value is added to the final product by the work. A union is the labor-side version of a corporation-- a legal "person" acting on behalf of a group of actual persons. By aggregating the individual labor vendors a union forces a bargaining situation where the price of labor is a less unbalanced share of the value gained from the work. A well-negotiated union contract has been proven time and time again to benefit both the owners and the workers.
...and another thing -- because it's negotiated and not dictated, a union contract isn't Socialism. I'd think that the Republican'ts would be all about that sort of thing..
But maybe I'm missing something here -- I personally would be highly suspicious of a radical Republican who promises that increasing the size and intrusiveness of government by passing Right-to-work laws and restricting a citizen's right to negotiate in as free market by banning labor unions. Isn't that the sort of thing they say the Democrats are trying to do?
AnotherCurmud, I am in a right-to-work state and I can negotiate my employment any time I want. I don't have to pay anyone to negotiate for me and I can go on strike anytime I desire, so please explain how having a right to work restricts any ones right to negotiate.
You can, but you still have to compete with every other individual labor provider. The corporations still get to set the price as low as you or someone else can afdford to work for, which is the goal. This is still clearly a case where corporate "persons" have more rights under the law than actual citizens due to Government intrusion.
AC
recall walker!
so he can run for president!
depends on how much union money (tax payer money) is thrown around scaring the sheep. it's a real shame so many people are easily brainwashed.