What was wrong with the President's jobs bill that would have created more construction jobs fixing our infrastructure? No big oil payola to the Republicans!

Temporary union jobs dls.

Read the jobs bill. Most of so called jobs and spent are in the public sector with new commissions, extended pay and benefits to homeland security, government offices, and such. Not many if any real jobs of sustaining income. Just increase government and kick the can down the road

There will not be many jobs unless something is done to the housing market. If you trace construction history you will find the economy of better pay more purchasing power. A construction worker works hard and get's (or used to get) paid well. He in turn builds or buys a new home. All new furniture etc etc. With the republican Party giving banks and mortgage companies hardly any regulations under The Neocons havoc was a promise and voila we're are deep into it. Now if the banks would get the heck out of the real estate business and start under regulations lending money for mortgages without using the most stringent credit scores we would have a chance.

Bluecat 55: Where are you getting your information? It is a long way from the Canadian border to the Gulf of Mexico...are you saying that Canadian workers will do the US side of the project...I Don't Think So!

It's not 20,000 jobs immediately and those won't be jobs in the US...duh...Canadians are thrilled at the prospect of ratcheting up the jobs in their oil industry in Alberta. That's the only province that has the big oil sands. Contracts will be written that will guarantee the jobs fit in with NAFTA and Big Oil contractors contracts for workers which means...the US takes the hit again.

The hypocrisy of Republicans is how they are trying to make this BS story about jobs look like some kind of job creation for Americans when it is isn't. Worse is how Big Oil rants about states' rights and then tramples the rights of states who don't want their dirty slime ball big oil spills.

Nothing like being two faced.

If it's really about jobs, let them build the damn thing. That doesn't mean we have to certify it to carry any oil through our country. Withold certification for its use until the environmental concerns are fully addressed. if they b!tch, then it was never about the jobs.

This issue is just like the drilling in the deep waters of the Gulf of mexico. They complained that the moratorium hurt the oil drilling workers and industry. But if you required that they double the drilling workforce by requiring that they drill a relief well simultaneously to any and every exploratory well, they would complain about the cost. They never want to spend money out of their profits for safety, and they want government bailouts and leniency when they have safety failures and environmental disasters. it's NEVER about putting people to work.

Paul...You are soooo right. When Clinton tightened the regulations on mercury in the air, the energy industries bitched a blue streak about having to spend money for controls. That in itself tells you how little Big Energy cares what it does not just to human life but to the environment as well.

Now, the Obama Administration and the present EPA reinstated all of those regs Bush watered down for his friends in Big Energy that forced them to comply with the mercury regulations. They now have 2 years to implement equipment changes or else. So what are they whining about now?

Wah...wah...wah...."We only have 2 years" to put in the proper controls to contain the mercury they are spewing into the air in mass volume and wah wah wah...."oh the expense"...Liars. They had more than 20 years...now these skankos are trying once again to wait until another Republican president waters those mercury regs down.

By the way, mercury is the chief cause of brain damage. Now the liars of Big Energy are crying their little too profitable hearts out because finally someone is calling their bluff.

Here's something the congress did that MSNBC and the other corporate media outlets didn't think was important enough to tell you about-or would rather you don't know about:

Obama, Congress back legalization of a police state

16 December 2011

The US Senate’s approval Thursday of legislation allowing the indefinite military detention of US citizens without charges or trials marks a new stage in a decade of uninterrupted assault on the most fundamental democratic and constitutional rights.

The Senate’s 86-to-13 vote in favor of the legislation followed its approval in the House of Representatives Wednesday. It also came after the announcement by the White House that President Barack Obama would not exercise his power to veto the measure, which is included in the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), a $662 billion package to fund Washington’s war machine.

The bill mandates that anyone accused of being a terrorist be “detained without trial until the end of hostilities” in a military prison. While it requires such treatment for non-citizens, it authorizes it for citizens arrested on US soil, if the president decides they merit this extra-constitutional punishment.

This piece of legislation enshrines in law the worst of the crimes carried out under the Bush administration and provides legal sanction for an American military-police state. The sweeping bipartisan support it received in both houses of Congress has provided definitive proof that there exists no constituency for the defense of democratic rights within the American political establishment and its two big business parties.

For that matter, the passage of a law that shreds the founding principles of the American republic has raised barely a murmur of concern from the corporate-controlled mass media. They have no intention of making this a matter of public debate. For millions of American working people, however, the action is of the gravest importance.

The Senate’s vote came precisely 220 years to the day after the passage of the Bill of Rights, the first ten amendments to the US Constitution, on December 15, 1791.

These amendments spelled out basic democratic freedoms—including freedom of speech and of the press; freedom from unreasonable search and seizure; the right to due process; and the right of anyone accused of a crime to a speedy and public trial by an impartial jury. They were passed in order to codify the democratic gains of the American Revolution and to protect the people of the new republic from a return to the abuses that had been carried out against them under the colonial rule of the British monarchy. They represented a concretization of the “inherent and inalienable” rights proclaimed by the Declaration of Independence to “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”.

With virtually no debate, and in the name of an unending “global war on terror”, the Senate and the House have passed legislation that allows for the abrogation of all of these rights by a president endowed with police state powers that would amaze even old King George…

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/dec2011/pers-d16.shtml

So we get to have a redo of this in 60 days.

Whoopdeedoo.

If the Keystone Pipeline is not a job creator and somehow not in the best interest of the US, then let Obama clearly state that fact and go on the record. Stop all this dancing around this project that btw has been in the creation stage since 2005. Good grief what is it that we still do not know?

So democrats insist that tax cuts do not help the economy and in fact just run up debt and cut revenue. So then why is Obama now saying that unless this payroll tax cut is kept in place and in fact increased, we will fall into another recession or worse. This is ridiculous.

I do not support this particular tax cut because SS is already in jeapardy and decreasing contributions is advancing the years that the fund will run dry. At the moment, we are now using int on that fund to pay benefits. So yes the IOU for the principle has not been touched - yet. However, since 2009 we have seen more outlays than revenue collected for SS. This payroll tax cut at some point will need to be reversed, which then makes it a tax HIKE. If that hike now will hurt the economy, it will then hurt the economy at a later date. True, those in dreamland believe our economy will be stronger a year from now and we can afford to sunset those tax cuts. But a tax hike is both real and psychological and it will damage the economy when the hike happens.

We need tax reform long-term that people can then count on to be in place. These gimmicks are bad because they are dealing with this recession on a short-term basis instead of realizing we have structural failures.

Randy-840072, I could travel to work on a bicycle. 3 ounces of 3 in 1 would oil my chain for months. I'm speaking to you on my computer, which is probably a waste of time. My time is much better spent talking over the fence to my neighbor. My phone is often controlled by tele-marketers that use it to their own advantage as I pay the bill. I could build a comfortable rocker out the fallen branches in my own back yard. My entire life is not based on oil, but moral obligations to my fellow man.

I find it sad that many of us depend on the comforts and riches of robber barons to sustain us as they continue to become more exclusive. Your comfortable ride on their immoral tails will soon come to an abrupt end when your foolish support is no longer necessary. You were never one of THEM. Just another one of us without the brains or courage to realize your dilemma.

I would like nothing better than to turn your greedy and butt kissing asses away. My own moral fortitude demands that I share whatever bounty I may have with the likes of cowards and traitors such as you. May God finally bless you with the courage and strength to stand upright once again as a man unbridled by adulation of those that would enslave us all.

Thirdbase-3159000

Bluecat 55: Where are you getting your information? It is a long way from the Canadian border to the Gulf of Mexico...are you saying that Canadian workers will do the US side of the project...I Don't Think So!

You had better play nice if you want the Canadians to send you their oil. It would be a lot easier for them to pump it to the nearby port of Vancouver and on to China.......

Arch-Stanton- read the bill, dude, it explicitly states that is will not be used against US citizens. Jeez, what a chicken fear mongerer you are!!

ewent

Why aren't you complaining about the Mercury in the CFLs that we are NOW REQUIRED TO BUY?

You are an idiot and a coward. The fact that this was even considered, let alone passed in secret with no media attention at all is proof that the system is owned, and they system is not on your side comrade. I fear for my children and my brother. You sir are the type that would let it all go by for the security of the state. Guess what buddy, the state is owned by big business and worse, but you are far to naive to comprehend the idea of one world govt and the shackles that bind us. God save us all.

Earthquakes. Tornadoes. Tsunamis. Hurricanes. That's not enough for you, you have to go tempting Mother Nature into demonstrating something new and unexpected to humiliate and punish us for our human arrogance? How bad could this pipeline thing get?

Think Titanic. Think Daichi nuclear power plant. Think about Challenger and Columbia. Think about Katrina. Think about the Twin Towers. Think about the worst-case scenario and imagine that, in every of those cases, it was much worse than anyone could have ever imagined.

Now think about a pipeline cutting through the major water supplies through the heart of this country and remember that without fresh drinking water, you'll die inside of a week. If it's widespread enough, rescue workers might not get the bottled water trucked in to you and your family in time. Drink the groundwater and die: go without it and die. A great scenario in a time of severe National crisis. And for what? To help us feed our insatiable lust for fossil-fueled vehicles for a couple more decades? Asinine. The measly 20,000 jobs created does not compare to the high level of threat to the very existence of millions of American families.

Remember too that once it's put in place, it's in place until either the oil's all gone - or the people are. And when you look at it honestly, neither one of those scenarios paints a rosy picture of the future. Despite that, one or the other of those outcomes - maybe even both - is absolutely guaranteed.

The most inconvenient time to design and sew a parachute is while tumbling towards the ground.

What is it in our arrogance today that our descendants should have to pay for with their lives?

Remember Deep Water Horizon.

The best thing President Obama could do would be to support the oil pipe line, then the repubs would turn against it!

I would suggest all of you people that think this pipe line will create a whole bunch of jobs for Americans, do some real F ing research. It won't, and there isn't that many permant jobs from this boondogle. And not on drop of oil will be used in the US. It is to be refined, and then shipped over seas.

Why can't our neighbors to the north do their own processing and shipping the oil overseas? We, the American taxpayers are getting ripped off by this pipeline. RESEARCH IT, and make your own decision, not what Faux Noise and the tea baggers are saying.

sallyann -- exactly!!

Once the pipe is in the ground, the jobs are gone, so let's be honest--they're temp jobs. The oil companies have consistently proven that they won't maintain the Alaskan Pipeline. The concept is to send oil over the farmlands that's the last thing that we have--the Midwest food supply. There will be no break in the cost of oil as a result and, right now, we're a net exporter of oil. It's on all the major news sites. The oil taken from the US and sold in line with OPEC prices. Do we get a break at the pumps while US oil companies are drilling in the US and having excess to sell on the world market? Record profits when the balance of the country is in ruins--

ANWAR, drill on public land, the pipeline--anything else those greedy bastards want? Wanna install a gas pump on The Statue of Liberty to attract the boat traffic? You folks in Washington might as well have corporate branding on your foreheads to show us who owns you.

Trading a pipeline through the heart of our country for families having food on their tables is a sick game. Corporations moved the jobs. Remember? Extending jobless benefits should be something, as a country, that we would gladly do. Slice it off that massive porky defense budget.

I know---blah, blah, "skin in the game", "Atlas Shrugged", and I, me, mine.

Christmas for congress is going to suck. After the President vetoes this piece of crap, they'll be back at the drawing board. I don't care if they have to work straight through to the next election. It's about time they actually put in real work for the money they steal from the taxpayers.

@ArchStanton- That bill was co-authored by John McCain (something FOX NEWS probably failed to note). The bill in itself is primarily to allocate military spending to keep our armed forces funded for the next year or so. The certain section that describes the 'police state/military dictatorship' was merely an amendment (one of nearly 1,000) added to the bill. So, if Obama veto's the bill, he will be chastised for being 'anti-military' for not supporting the further funding of our military. If he allows the bill to pass legislation, he will be burned at the stake for allowing the U.S. to become a military dictatorship. Its a lose/lose bill for the current administration either way you look at it regardless of the President's decision to veto or not. Do a little more research before you pass negative judgement.This problem could easily be alleviated with the re-enactment of the line item veto for useless amendments such as this

To all you people, American needs Congressional reform to ever bring this country back.

1. No Tenure and No pensions for Men/Women in Congress

2. Serve no more then 8 years

3. Congress men and women collect a salary during their term no pay when out of office

4. Congress past and present and future all go into the Social Security system when out office.

5. All funds in Congressional retirement fund moves into Social Security system, and all

participate in this system like all other Americans

6.Congress can purchase their own retirement plan like all other Americans .

7.Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise, this all done with

8.Congress loses all their current Healh Insurance and care system and participate in the

same Healthcare system as all the American people.

9. Congress must abide by all the laws they impose on the american people.

10. All contracts with past and present Congress are void 1-1-2012 or ASAP

Note= They made all the contracts for themselve,this has to stop. To serve in Congress is an honor and not a career,they should serve their term(s) then go home and flow back in the work force,this is the only way we ever change the way Washington get his house straightened out and get new live in Americans economy,if you agre with me send this message out to everyone you know, America has to change Washington.

Why don't the Canadians refine their own tarsands or whatever they call it in their own country..... oh they do not want to besoil their own aquifiers or water sources do they, but they do not mind if our environment is ruined though.... talk about being neighborly....

These companies want these things being done here in the USA because they know that the powers that be can be bought and paid for easily.....as many lack honor.

Our country can be turned into a capitalist's dump for all they care. No wonder we hear them talking about doing away with rules and regulations to even actively defunding departments that actually provide oversight.... see decreased funding of the EPA.... all supposedly to make it easier for businesses to set up shop here. But at what cost? It is clear that they do not mind the USA land and air being ruined, all supposedly to/for providing some temporary job and a few (less than about 200) permanent jobs.

Next thing you know when we do not have any clean water and our farm lands are ruined, the Canadians will be selling us water and food at premium price. ....

On the other hand I suppose by that time we will be able to breath, eat and drink gas and oil.....

So what if your child have 3 eyes, gills and a webbed toe, she just takes after her mother's side of the family...LOL.

It is just about evolution and Americans evolving into a more exceptional species..... LOL

Yeah, that is American Exceptionalism for you...... LOL

Fricked, fracked and fauxed.....LOL

We need those pipelines to be functional. The best jobs right now are in the oil field, they always have been. We need to have that fuel to further America's income and lower our debt. If we are not shipping oil in from other countries our debt will have to begin to come down.

You make it sound that if we refined, pumped our own (Canadian oil?) that the prices will come down. And how on earth does using Canadian sand oil, tar oil or any other type of oil bring down US debt?

At this point Canada is not asking near as much for their oil as the middle east are asking. This should help our debt a bit.

And why in the world are we not pumping more from our own states that are so oil rich?

I do believe that it is the GOP governor of Nebraska, that is fighting this pipeline. They do not want this thing going through their state. The American people were also lead to believe that the GOP believed in state rights. So much for that theory.

Harry 28

To all you people, American needs Congressional reform to ever bring this country back.

1. No Tenure and No pensions for Men/Women in Congress

2. Serve no more then 8 years

3. Congress men and women collect a salary during their term no pay when out of office

4. Congress past and present and future all go into the Social Security system when out office.

5. All funds in Congressional retirement fund moves into Social Security system, and all

participate in this system like all other Americans

6.Congress can purchase their own retirement plan like all other Americans .

7.Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise, this all done with

8.Congress loses all their current Healh Insurance and care system and participate in the

same Healthcare system as all the American people.

9. Congress must abide by all the laws they impose on the american people.

10. All contracts with past and present Congress are void 1-1-2012 or ASAP

Note= They made all the contracts for themselve,this has to stop. To serve in Congress is an honor and not a career,they should serve their term(s) then go home and flow back in the work force,this is the only way we ever change the way Washington get his house straightened out and get new live in Americans economy,if you agre with me send this message out to everyone you know, America has to change Washington.

Harry I think a majority of people in here would agree with you. We've written and talked about it for months in here BUT what has happened? NOTHING. My understanding is it has to come in the form of a referendum to get on the ballot for the American people to vote on. That's the ONLY way we can change Congress. To do that we, the people, are going to have to call on the wealthiest Americans to sponsor us. I am willing to sit at the Public Library and collect signatures...are you? Please contact these Americans or people who may know these Americans and ask them to stand behind us to get a referendum on the ballot:

http://patrioticmillionaires.org/

EVELYN ALDRICH-WINTHROP
Rumson, NJ

MICHAEL ALEXANDER
El Macero, CA

Cynda Collins Arsenault
Superior, CO

Jacob B
New York, NY

WD B
Aspen, CO

MICHAEL BARR
Baltimore, MD

HENRY BEAN
New York, NY

Dick Beattie
New York, NY

Paul Beirne
New York, NY

Lawrence B. Benenson*
New York, NY

Daniel Berger
Philadelphia, PA

D.A.
San Francisco, CA

N.A.
Dallas, TX

Robert S. Bowditch
Brookline, MA

Brady Brim-Deforest*
Los Angeles, CA

David A. Brown
Berkeley, CA

Mark Buell
San Francisco, CA

Susie Buell
San Francisco, CA

Doug Carlston
San Rafael, CA

David Chiang
Las Vegas, NV

JEROME CLELAND
San Diego, CA

Tom and Noel Congdon
Denver, CO

ROY CRAWFORD
Whitesburg, KY

A D
Sacramento, CA

SCOTT DELMAN
New York, NY

David desJardins
Burlingame, CA

Abigail Disney
New York, NY

BILL DONALDSON
Redford, MI

MARTA DRURY
San Francisco, CA

DOUG EDWARDS
Los Altos, CA

Paul and Joanne Egerman*
Boston, MA

JAY EISENHOFER
New York, NY

Niko Elmaleh
New York, NY

DAN F.
Greenwich, CT

Edie Falco
New York, NY

Ronald Feldman
New York, NY

JERRY FIDDLER
Berkeley, CA

Christopher Findlater
Naples, FL

Charlie Fink
Washington, DC

JONATHAN FISHER
Seattle, WA

RICHARD FOOS

ERIC FREDRICKSON
Los Gatos, CA

JOHN FULLERTON
Rye, NY

Ron Garret, PhD
Emerald Hills, CA

BILL GAWTHROP
Yorkville, CA

DREW GINSBURG
Dallas, TX

STEVEN GLUCKSTERN
San Francisco, CA

David Goldschmidt
Princeton, NJ

JOSH GORDON
Las Vegas, NV

Linda Gottlieb
New York, NY

Garrett Gruener*
Oakland, CA

JEFF GURAL
New York, NY

Nathan Hadfield*
Provo, UT

BRUCE HELMER
Chanhassen, MN

Suzanne and Lawrence Hess*
San Diego, CA

ARNOLD HIATT
Boston, MA

KENNY HILLMAN

LEO HINDERY, JR.
New York, NY

Bill Janeway
New York, NY

Frank Jernigan*
San Francisco, CA

Melissa C. Johnsen*
Kirkwood, MO

John S. Johnson
New York, NY

Rob Johnson
New York, NY

WAYNE JORDAN
Oakland, CA

William Jurika
Piedmont, CA

JOSEPH KAEMPFER
Mclean, VA

AL KAHN
New York, NY

JOEL KANTER
Vienna, VA

Josh Kanter
Sandy, UT

ROB S. KAPLAN
New York, NY

Rochelle Kaplan
Salt Lake City, UT

JANE KATCHER

John Katzman
New York, NY

John Kortenhaus*
Plano, TX

DAL LAMAGNA
Poulsbo, WA

STEVE LARRSON
Fairfax, WA

JOAN LEIBOVICH
Boston, MA

David Levine*
New York, NY

Mary & Charles Liebman*
IL

Doug L
New York, NY

Art Lipson
Salt Lake City, UT

Eugene Long
Plymouth Meeting, PA

ALEXANDER M
Los Altos, CA

MICHEL MARKS
Red Bank, NJ

WIN MCCORMACK
Portland, OR

DOC MCCOY
Fort Worth, TX

GERALD MCHUGH
Philadelphia, PA

TERENCE MEEHAN
New York, NY

Dennis Mehiel
New York, NY

DIANE MEYER SIMON
Santa Barbara, CA

HERB MILLER
Washington, DC

Vibhu Mittal
Palo Alto, CA

KEN MORRIS
San Francisco, CA

STEVEN NAGOURNEY
New York, NY

SHEKAR NARASIMHAN
Mclean, VA

Chris Nelson
Barrington, RI

KELLY NELSON

WENDY NEU
New York, NY

Peter Norvig*
Palo Alto, CA

LARRY NUSBAUM
Phoenix, AZ

GARY PASSON
Kihei, HI

Frank Patitucci*
Pleasanton, PA

RAKITA PAYNE
Virginia Beach, VA

Morris and Barbara Pearl
New York, NY

Judy Piggot*
Seattle, WA

Rebecca Pontikes*

Catherine Raphael*

ANDY RAPPAPORT
Menlo Park, CA

GREAT NECK RICHMAN
New York, NY

NOURIEL ROUBINI
New York, NY

Jonathan Rose
New York, NY

FRED ROTONDARO
Shady Side, MD

MICHAEL SALAKO
DeSoto, TX

Guy and Jeanine Saperstein
Piedmont, CA

Heike Schmitz
Palo Alto, CA

Fritz Schneider*
San Francisco, CA

DAVID SCHROEDERS
Sarasota, FL

JAMES SEILER
Alpine, NJ

SYBIL SHAINWALD
New York, NY

Ed Shufro

Craig Silverstein
Mountain View, CA

Michael Steinhardt
New York, NY

DAN STEVENS
Naples, FL

SARAH STRANAHAN

SANDOR AND FAYE STRAUS
Lafayette, CA

SIMON STRAUSS
New York, NY

PAT STRYKER
Fort Collins, CO

MAUREEN TATE
Philadelphia, PA

WHITNEY TILSON
New York, NY

Andrew Tobias
New York, NY

BETH UFFNER
New York, NY

SUSAN VAN DOLSEN
Rye, NY

PHILLIPE VILLERS
Concord, MA

CHRISTY AND SCOTT WALLACE
Washington, DC

ROSS WALLER
Lexington, VA

David Watson
Oakland, CA

ANGELA WB
New York, NY

Peter Weinberger
New York, NY

Bernard and Carol Winograd
New York, NY

Go to

www.patrioticmillionaires.org

Sign up and send them an email asking them to help us put a referendum on the ballot for us to vote for term limits and putting an end to lobbying.

At this point Canada is not asking near as much for their oil as the middle east are asking. This should help our debt a bit.

First, most of the oil is destined for export. So, I'm not sure how that helps the US debt situation. Actually, it doesn't help it at all because the price of oil has nothing to do with US government debt, although it does impact the balance of payments. That's a different matter, however.

But, oil is a commodity and pretty much has a uniform worldwide price. If Canadian oil is cheaper, it is because it is less desirable than Texas oil or Middle Eastern oil. It might be harder (more expensive) to refine, for instance. There's no such thing as a free lunch, or a bargain on oil.

A 60 day extension of the 'payroll tax holiday'.

Why is it that tax cuts are always temporary, while tax increases are always forever ???

The Keystone pipeline addition to this bill is a critical job creator. Oncologists, Taxidermists, and morticians can't wait for the full effects. Every day we wait, healthy animals and people are living longer.

Why don't they just cut the lowest income tax rate by 2%... oh, that's right, that would benefit the poor and middle class.

The GOP Tea-Retards are not fixing the Nations economy, Did you know that in September 2010 the Repubacons blocked a bill that would have eliminated tax breaks for any Corporation that sent jobs overseas ? Amazes me that it was never bigger news. The GOP Tea-Loose nuts are destroying this Country. Wake up America-Vote them out of office.

To those who believe that there will be millions of jobs created like was noted by one republican congress person..... this number was investigated and was found to be false. There would not be even 20 thousand jobs created..... any jobs created would be temporary at best and after the pipeline is built (if it ever gets built) there would be only about a few jobs created to check the pipeline.

Seeing how poorly the Alaskan pipeline is checked and maintained should give everyone a clue that this pipeline from Canada would just be a massive accident waiting to happen and which would destroy a major water source for our country.

Canada's PM and his conservatieave buds have decided they wanted out of the Keyoto agreement. He is stating that it would be too costly to their country and companies (who bespoil the environment) because of the high cost of fines they would have to pay for their toxic emissions.... no wonder they want the tarsands refined in the USA where it is can destroy our air as well as our water etc. no doubt forcing the USA to pay high fines for the emissions from the processing of the tarsands into oil.

Another thing is that all oil harvested is sold on the world market.... and that includes oil harvested in the USA and in the Gulf of Mexico. So that is not going to decrease the cost of oil or gas in the USA at all. With our environment destroyed we will also be importing water and paying a premium price for it also.... even as the frackers continue to frack and bespoil our ground source water etc.....

So we create jobs under these circumstances and for what/..... so hopefully people will die in pain and suffering as they will not be able to afford healthcare or medicines etc anyway....? So how does those few jobs that would supposedly be created help the majority of the population or the national debt then?

T'gopers surely love their trickle down..... don't they? Whether it is trickledown economics to now trickledown tarsands via a pipeline..... as one can see the operative word is TRICK as in tricking people into believing something that is not true.... talk about the putting the con in conservative.... LOL

The only way things in this country will change is if the Electoral College is abolished and the popular vote becomes the only vote... It is just not right that a few states should decide who the candidates will be for us to vote for in the general election.... We need 1 person 1 vote period.

The way things are now even if we should vote out all the present crop of folks in congress there are others like them already waiting in the wings, thus the next thing would be to have public financing of elections period.... no private funding and if there is additional private funding then only to a certain limit and must be the same limit for all candidates. All donations would have to be made known so all the citizens of this country would be made aware of who is buying ...er ... donating to who and for how much.....LOL

By the way.... it behoves everyone to keep and eye on your local and state polititians etc.. and their views/actions, because that is where these folks in Congress start from before going on to the national stage....

No wonder there is this attempt at voter supression... because with the bursting of the housing bubble people are staying put in their neighborhoods, cities, counties and States and thus are now able to pay attention to who these polititians are.

Before and during the housing bubble bursting, people used to move around every few years or so, -changing house and neighborhood- so that they did not know anything about the people/polititians who were representing them in State and Local government, who then went on to become the candidates for congress....and look where we are now, while we were not paying attention instead giving more thought to looking for granite countertops and stainless steel appliances etc.... Now the house is in forclosure and that polititian is now in congress making decision on whether you keep your unemployment benefits, have access to public safety nets, affordable healthcare, or have medicaid coverage or whether Medicare and Social Security will be cut.... LOL

No wonder the O(WS) protestors have been marginalized, demonized, dumped upon, beaten upon, and generally rubbished and harassed etc? It is because of their stance on issues that affect us all and is making those who would perfer the status quo uncomfortable and downright worried that the movement will get larger putting paid to their ability to continue to own our government making serfs of the rest of us.

1 war over and still the Defense budget is raised by 1%? Why? One would have thought that the defense budget would be cut by the amount that will no longer be needed now that there will no longer be any ongoing military activity in Iraq or even by at least 10%. Have anyone noticed that there is the fearmongering going on again and there are reports about Hezbollah (sp) etc trying to start up something else. If there is going to be any more war activities then there should be a draft.

It is time to bring back the draft....or at least everyone between the age of 20- 30 y/o should have to serve a term of 2 years in the Armed forces.... no exceptions except for those who are so severely disabled that they are unable to function or take/carryout orders without assistance...... just like is done in some European countries and in Israel. See how quickly these hawkish folks would be when their son or daughter's life is on the line with the rest of the poor/middle class folks' children. LOL

Straight up.....

Oh my! WOW! I have read some really, really, good ideas today! Ha ha ha! Thinking caps in place? You all are starting to see the real issues; looking beyond the cosmetic crapola, eh? I am so impressed. I know that no one is trying to impress me, I get that part; but how can I be anything but happy when I see Americans coming around? I say to you in the vernacular of the streets...

RIGHT ON!

Why isn't OWS doing THIS?

Ballot measures, also referred to as ballot initiatives and referendums (I&R), provide citizens the opportunity to discuss and vote on policy issues at the local level and state level. Using this process, in 24 states citizens can bring an issue to a public vote by gathering a pre-determined number of signatures from registered voters.

A referendum places a law that has already been passed by the legislature to a popular vote. Similar to a ballot initiative, it is a citizen led effort and requires a predetermined amount of signatures to qualify the measure to get on the ballot. The legislature can also place a bill to a “legislative referendum.

A ballot initiative is a proposal to change or create a law at a local or state level. Instead of relying on the legislature to make all of the laws, citizens can use the ballot initiative process to implement laws on their own.

Using the ballot initiative process, citizens can bring about a public vote on a proposed statue or constitutional amendment by gathering a pre-determined amount of signatures from registered voters and turning those signatures in to the state.

States that allow initiatives are:

Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Idaho, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Utah, Washington

We Know Congress won't initiate laws for term limits and abolishing lobbying but we can start it. If these states will vote on initiatives we could then get a referendum started to pass it into law that all states would have to follow. As I see it this is the ONLY way we are going to clean up a do nothing Congress and take back OUR country.

I know there are some very intelligent retired people in here that can help to start this up. Please, let's figure out how we can do this.

Ballot Initiative Primer | Citizens in Charge

www.citizensincharge.org

Senate negotiators reach deal on payroll tax cut extension

Senate who - what? Who cares what these idiots think they reached. Effectively - nothing. Any 2 month deal is treason on America's people - you lazy MOFs.

Sadly, this brain-drain occurred during the '20s, and they've done nothing but let more stupid causes stick to their party ever since. Now they have a situation where they can't possibly satisfy all sides, because they are diametrically opposed to each other. The subsequent implosion is going to look like the beginning stages of an atomic reaction. It's interesting to watch.

all that you have to do is read the short-sighted blind liberal lemmings that post on this web site to know that their inability to obtain one rational thought is a great threat to our national security. How do you cook a frog? turn up the heat slowly... Our union run and socialist education system has distorted the view of millions of American into thinking that Capitalism is the root of all evil. I guess all of you liberals think that communism is the answer; of course you do! Wow, we have come a long way in a short time; will the US make it to 300 years?

Go back and sit in front of your TV and watch more FOX news, so you will know what and how to think. Your words are a waste of space here. You have nothing to offer, you bring nothing to the table. You repeat what Fox tells you, right or wrong...and apearantly you don't know the difference...

Impeach the lot of them. This can be done on the basic and simple grounds that they have not upheld the oath they took when sworn into office. In part it was "to uphold the Constitution" of the United States of America. They have all failed to do this by not protecting our borders. Out with the lot of them.

It always happens without fail. They are able to pass a bill just in time to make their vacation.

Blue...

As opposed to the many, many intellectually superior members of the Democrat Party, I'm sure !

Your party surely has it's own abundant share of "intellectually challenged" voters too...as voting demographics clearly show, election after election.

Calling all Americans,

It is both parties that have hurt this country so bad that recovery without changing who and how they serve in all governmental capacities will fail. These short term fixes only allow for the parties to come back and fight again and will never fix a damned thing. if you do not think we already pay enough taxes then you are blind we are taxed for making money(payrole) then again we we buy it (sales tax) and then again because we bought it and own it (property tax) and now the senate wants the military I served in to be able to come into our home and detain us for something that they think we have done without cause or charge, if you think that this is acceptable in anyway you are blind to the big the big picture the government is aligning itself to prevent what they know is inevatable if there are not real changes made to reform the policies of our country. real reform will come when we the people take off the blinders and make the changes in the way government is run starting with the partisian rederic that rules. At no time should a bill that is up for vote be contingent on another being passed for its approval so any party can get thier agendas accomplished to say that we will pass this if you assure a pipeline or any other entity to pass is purely a tatic that is unexceptable. the republicans and democrats have become nothing more than two business parties using government to achieve thier for proffit agendas which is total bull.Anyone serving in our government should be nothing more than a elected employee and treated as such. All private for proffit business must be desolved before you would be elidgable for the position pay should be based on the G.S. pay scale like the rest of the gov't employees and not voted on by the members involved but by a commity that is appointed by a public vote. The policie for the house, senate,and congress should be if you do not get the job done then you will be fired and all bills will then be put to public vote through internet one vote per household.Real changes such as these or some similar will change the way things are done in washington and make our elected officials do thier damned jobs and get rid of the bickering between these adolecent asses that half ass the way they serve the people of America.In closing ask yourself is it right that those that are sent to battle live in poverty while those that send them get rich you know who you are ass wipes do your JOB or GET gone we don't need you. Just saying we cannot afford to waste anymore time we must make real changes in all of the way this country is run or we will perish just as russia and other nations that refused to change thier ways.the difference is there are those that when the time is right would come and force changes we will not except. See the bigpicture and do not stay blind to what our future will hold without Real change.

No dari if we did that you would have even greater numbers of foreclosures, bankruptcies and destruction of the remaining middle class. Said middle class keeps the country out of a depression and provides all the customers for your rich friends and corporations.

I know you don't care cause you can just hire personal security guards and live in a walled community, but most of us like having a safe society grounded in a secure middle class.

@dari43 - you can say the Democrats 'tax and spend'. But in my book that's better than the Republicans 'borrow and spend'. They got us into this hole, period, end of story.

Dari--What makes you think that those of us in the bottom 99% don't want to pay taxes? Could you show the math to demonstrate that a flat tax of 12 to 15% would, in fact, pay off the deficit. And while you're at it, show what slapping a tax hike on those who can least afford it would do to the economy. They are, after all, the folks who create the demand that keeps the economy going. Oh, that's right, you're not pretending to present a logical argument, just a rightwing rant. So never mind.

Fair is in the eye of the beholder. It's a lot different between a worker earning $50,000 who is left with $40,000 after taxes, and another worker earning $500,000 is left with $400,000 after the same flat tax. The worker with $40,000 probably spends every last remaining cent to meet his families expenses, whereas the higher earner has was is referred to as disposable income. Build into your concept of fairness is a belief that the $50,000 isn't working as hard and isn't fully appreciating the government services he's receiving.

Wm., you are absolutely right.

Perhaps a better idea -- along Dari's lines of paying off the debt quickly -- is to raise the highest tax bracket to Eisenhower's level (91%) until the debt is paid off (and others accordingly). Then taxes can go back to a fair graduated tax -- the highest being maybe the 70% of the '70's. Or even the 50% of the early '80's.

Another wonderful idea -- and I don't know why they haven't done this -- is to charge a fraction of a percent of each stock transaction. Small and medium sized investors would find the tax negligible -- about 1/4 of a cent on each dollar -- but given the number of stocks traded, it could provide a tidy amount of revenue.

morrigan ------ These revenues would only be used by Democrats to spend more and more in addition to borrowing more and more.

Gary, did the democrats start two unfunded wars,,did the democrats give tax breaks when those two wars were going, did the democrats start an unfunded Medicare drug plan? Is that all democrat spending? Get real and look at the real world.

The first order of business was to place regulations on refining oil and requiring separate storage for product thus driving the price of oil to a record over 5.00 a gallon. Which at this time then Senator Barrack Hussein Owebama said the price needed to be higher but it was to fast.

You are right Leonard...You can look it up and watch him move his lips admitting to it.

Verno, the Dems were onboard for both of those wars. Amazing how you liberals can only remember the facts that support your opinions. And I bet they were also for the unfunded medicaid drug plan. I mean, Dems could never go against a free entitlement. That's how they maintain their voting base.

How will a flat tax be fair when you all know that the billionaires will continue to raise the cost of living every time they decide they want more money? That's why a flat tax won't work. Everyone will be paying the same in taxes...just not for the cost of goods and services. With every price increase, those earning 526 times what the CEOs earn will end up losing more and more of their paychecks to cost of living increases.

To a liberal like Wm, fair is taking more of someone elses personal wealth just because they have it. I'm not rich, but I see that as unfair. Now I voted for Obama, so I'm not the brightest light bulb in the box, but as long as we citizens have a political party willing to take the wealth from one group of people so that the others can keep theirs in their pockets, there will be no equality. We should all have to pay for the priviledge of living in this country. Not just 1/2 of the citizenry as it is now.

Sorry jrae-that is not the end of the story. It is the demoboobs who are the driving forces behind the mess we are in. They never met a bill they didn't love to spend more of my hard earned dollars on. Get in the real world-duh.

LanikaiRon...To be fair isn't to stick it to the working poor and Middle Class to help Big Busineses pay their business debts with bailouts and landfills of tax reductions. Why should we have to help them as taxpayers pay their business expenses when we help them already as consumers and employees?

The Republican Wealth Cartel has gone as far as it can go sticking it all on the working poor and Middle class. No rich man is that ignorant that he doesn't know that the more he earns, the higher his tax bracket will be. It's his choice. No rich man needs to be a billionaire and then start thinking he's soooo privileged he doesn't have to pay taxes...that's what Leona Helmsley thought too...and she didn't take it with her either.

I love conservatives who are trying to argue about taxes when they can't tell their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to taxes. If people understood just how easy it is for a corporation in America to turn a loss they would never argue about tax rates.

jrae-1215199

@dari43 - you can say the Democrats 'tax and spend'. But in my book that's better than the Republicans 'borrow and spend'.

More like 'borrow and abscond'.

morrigan, WRT your second idea, they already are doing this. Every time I sell stock (trades involving from one to ten thousand dollars, normally) the SEC takes from two to seven cents in fees. My understanding is that this means of funding a federal agency that is supposed to be objective and impartial was deemed to be more sound than leaving its funding to the whims of politics.

Wherever we take new revenues, to tie the debate up in useless wrangling about whether it's less spending and less taxes or more of each, the one intractable fact remains: We have already spent more than we have taken in by $15 trillion, we can't take it out of spending because we spend less than $4 trillion per year (so even if we shut down the federal government completely for 3 years and keep collecting taxes we can't completely retire the debt,) and we can't just keep waiting because every day we do is one day closer to some catastrophe like higher interest rates, grossly higher energy prices, or more wars.

So the choice is not between lower spending and taxes and higher spending and taxes. It has to be higher taxes and lower spending, the exact opposite of what we've had for the last 30 years or so.

Ok since the bottom 99% do not want to pay any taxes

Actually they do pay taxes, and not just income taxes, they pay more as a ratio of earnings than the richest 1 percent. Is there any reason why I pay less taxes than my employees as a percentage? Is that fair?

FactOfTheMatter

If taxes on my employer or her customers increase, I will probably loose my job. The money you make is invested one way or another thus creating jobs for people like me. Therefore, it is fair.

What is not fair is the money wasted by our government that costs so many jobs for so many.

Oh Verno my poor, poor lost soul. You seem to forget that the Demo's were in power, ruling senate and congress and most of the time it's a clean up act.

In truth, any tax hike that would generate more revenue for the government would disappear within a blink of the eye. They don't know how to save, and budget the accounts. They only understand spending because no one has had to tell them to reign themselves in. They don't understand financial restraints. They've never had to deal with it in their personal lives, and the few that may have, have surely forgotten those hardships by now. Oh yes, they paint a pretty picture but it's all lies.

government IS the problem, not the answer; of course liberals would prefer that every major industry be nationalized and all employees government union employees. right?..., you can go to China or Russia for that libbies, but they won't put up with you. the bottom line is that a great many people never learned to be accountable for their poor choices, and they want the rest of us to pay their mortgage, light bill and feed them, for life. Well Merry Christmas, all of you leeches on society!

Hey Wake Up - if the Conservatives are so AGAINST getting our products from China then why have the GOP blocked bills to slow that down and REGULATE the companies that do???? YOU need to wake up.

AND please go look at the stats on which party has the better education and wealth. SURPRISE!

We definitely need reform for housing and food stamps BUT quit your bitchin - the scammers are amongst all of us - and I would bet the poor get away with a lot less than anyone else. EVERY year people learn how to come up with deductions that mean tax REFUND not tax payment. The more money you have the easier it is to do. Why should the poor not benefit from SOMETHING?

The Grinch stole Christmas = TPGOP.

Wake Up people! The bottom half are paying a higher percent of tax than the top half. The top half use more of the government sevices than the bottom half. The top half live longer than the bottom half. The top half get more subsides than the bottom half. The top half have more assets that are protected by the military, police, homeland securty, SEC, and other government enties. The bottom half have no insurance, no assets to protect or credit. The top half use the roads, airports, ships and other transportation more than the bottom half. Get rid of the GOP in congress and give something back to the bottom half. If You make less than 50,000 per year, you are the bottom half.

John...

And for some in that "top half"...but not in the supposedly evil and horrific "1%"...the tab that is paid is in the 40%+ range, between local, state, and federal taxation. Yet, that's just not enough...and it's time to "give something back to the bottom half".

I thought that's where a lot of that "40%+" taken from paychecks was going ???

Maybe in some alternate universe, a government taking more that forty cents out of every dollar earned by a citizen would consider that figure to be "enough".

EVERYONE pays 12% or 15% with no deductions or exemptions or credits

Yeah, because 12 or 15 percent of nothing is still 0.

There is another choice: the Justice Party - if we can't vote the Conservatives out, we should at least let the Democrats know that spinless behavior won't get them re-elected.

Nothing wrong with jobs being created from the pipeline in this country. He is still better then say Cain Bachman Perry Gingrich and Romney

Ya promise?

dls ---------Good idea. Encourage your liberal friends to support a third party candidate to run against the Republican and Democrat. Have your candidate adopt the appropriate progressive positions that are eschewed by even the Democrats. This is a good plan.

Since we don't want another government shutdown the President and republicans will work for the best solution because they want to keep people employed and they want to selfishly go on to the Christmas vacations themselves. So it was for the benefit of most federal workers who need to be paid and it was best for most of the country. I will difinitely vote for President Obama. No he has not done everything I want but he has tried and he is standing up for what Democrats want.

if you are an illegal invader he will be heartbroken. He wants them to vote.

Ooops i did not mean to like your post.....your one vote I'm sure will make the difference for Mr. Obama; he needs every vote he can get!

pissed off-what a lovely name, must be why you love liberals so much.

pissed off, if you do not vote do not bitch it is redundent to expect changes if you do not scream for them to happen.

Rich, the Democrats had control of Congress and the Presidency for two years and control of Congress for four years. That started in 2006. During that time is when we went down that dismal road. We wouldn't have to get on the road to recovery if the Democrats hadn't taken us down.

Rich ---You are on to something. Just think how the two party system has held back the US for the past 200 years. This is why we have languished as an impoverished , third world country for so many centuries. If only your vision of a single party system , like in Russia or China or Iran , could come to fruition , just think where we could be.

Fed, you seem to forget that the dems had a very slight majority from 2007 to 2009. And they did not have a veto proof or a filibuster proof majority. So nothing could have gotten through without a Republican president signing the bills, and the republicans letting them get through. Is that too much for you to take in?? And when the did have control from 2009 on they still didn't have a filibuster proof majority, so the Republicans just filibustered everything. So nothing could get passed again.

verno ---- The Democrats would never do this if the circumstances were reversed, would they?

rich-where are you from? How is that hope and change your buddy BO promised? I am still waiting, my motto,

No votes for BO! Out with the demoboobs.

gary-- nice for once that a repub admits openly that the repubs are not the "party of jobs" nor are they the "party who loves the USA" but that they are the party of obstruction.

gary-309869

...If only your vision of a single party system , like in Russia or China or Iran , could come to fruition , just think where we could be.

Unfortunately for America, Gary, it is the Republican party and their excessive abuse of the filibuster that has already created a virtual one-party system in our country, like in Russia, China and Iran. Your party's vision completely dismisses anyone else's feelings, thoughts or ideas unless they are conservative, restrictive, invasive, intrusive, unconstitutional, Christian, and to the benefit of only the wealthy - or the complete polar opposite of anything President Obama proposes.

Yes, just image where we could be if we once again were governed by a two-party system.

Rick ---- You must have missed the paper the day the Democrats gained control of the Senate ; you know the one that keeps blocking legislation. And, that pesky Constitution may surprise you with some of its provisions which were specifically designed to bring about a check and balancing of power so that we were not ruled by any particular branch of government. By the way, I'm not a Republican ; Virtually all politicians are repugnant and responsible for the dilemma in which we find ourselves today.

What legislation has the Republican party introduced and passed in the past two years? It should not be difficult for you to list all of them here.

Indulge me.

I'll even let Republicans off the hook just a bit - what legislation has the Republican party introduced in the House and Senate over the past two years? Not passed - simply introduced by Republicans. Should be easy to find out.

gary-309869

Virtually all politicians are repugnant and responsible for the dilemma in which we find ourselves today.

Really? Well let me just tell you what's going on up here in the world, Gary. While your head is buried in the proverbial sand, there is a battle going on between the two parties; Republicans on the Right, and Democrats on the Left; officials, people like you and me, elected by people like you and me. But while your head is buried down there, one of these parties up here is trying like hell to light your ass on fire. The other party is trying like hell to keep your ass from getting burned.

It's sad that Americans have become so jaded by the process, that instead of taking action to stop the injustices, they choose to do nothing and let the weight of the country be lifted by the deeds of others. This country's leaders still answer to "We, the People" as long as people turn out to vote.

It doesn't matter one way or another which party you believe is which; the liability on your ass is just about a 50/50 prospect if you habitually do nothing at all when it comes to politics. And if you believe that both parties are fighting the same battle with equal consequences, then maybe your ass needs to be burned for a while. But the way I look at it, if my head is buried in the sand, I'm only left to ponder in the dark, helplessly: "I wonder how the battle to save my ass is going", while sand pours into my upside-down nose. If, however, my head is above ground, then not only can I see my attacker and help keep my ass from getting burned; I can avoid the misery of having to rinse out a sinus cavity full of sand while sitting in a bucket full of ice.

gary-309869

Rick ---- You must have missed the paper the day the Democrats gained control of the Senate

Do you mean the day the Democrats retained control in the Senate, but lost the majority to all the new whipper-snapper Tea Party Republicans who came to Washington to shake things up in the House of Representatives? Yes, I read something about that.

And what Legislation have any of them - any single piece of legislation - that any one of these zealous representatives has introduced? How about Republicans as a whole? What legislation has been introduced by Republicans in the past 24 months?

I believe you won't feel compelled to answer that.

Rick, take a bath, get a job, and move out of your mother's basement.

Here is some "reality" about "control"of the Senate. A party majority does not give you control when it comes to the Senate rules of filibuster, secret holds and obstruction.

President Obama spoke about collective amnesia and rightly so. Apparently, there is an epidemic of selective amnesia concerning the 2009 and 2010 Senate "Super Majority".

For those who persist in the Senate Super majority lie of the 111th Congress and the continuing obstruction of the 112th Congress. So,how did anything get passed?( ie. Healthcare Reform, unemployment benefit extensions, payroll tax cuts) Ah, that dirty word -compromise. Even then and today, every bill needed votes from the Independents, Blue dog Dems and Republicans.

No matter how many times you repeat that Super Majority lie it is still a lie. Did everyone forget the Blue Dog Dems (ie. Evan Bayh, and others?) In fact, they never had a Democratic super majority because of Leiberman(I. Conn), just another pissed off Independent that consistently votes with the Republicans even though he will caucus with the Dems. He backed McCain, didn't he?

There was never a "Senate Super Majority" for any length of time. The GOP/TP has set a historical record for the number of filibusters in this administration and it still continues to obstruct any bills to move us forward.

The Senate Super majority myth

January 3, 2009 - 111th Congress sworn in. 55 Democrats, 41 Republicans, 2 Independents, 2 vacant.

January 15, 2009 - Roland Burris sworn in to Barack Obama's seat. 56 Democrats, 41 Republicans, 2 Independents, 2 vacant.

April 30, 2009 – Arlen Specter changes parties. 57 Democrats, 40 Republicans, 2 Independents, 1 vacant.

July 7, 2009 – Al Franken seated. 58 Democrats, 40 Republicans, 2 Independents.

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THE DEMOCRATS HAD A SHOT AT A
60-VOTE MAJORITY AND STILL NEEDED BOTH INDEPENDENTS.

August 25, 2009 – Teddy Kennedy dies. Kennedy had missed 97% of the votes in 2009 and over 90% in the last half of 2008. 57 Democrats, 40 Republicans, 2 Independents, 1 vacant.

September 25, 2009 – Paul Kirk appointed to Teddy Kennedy's seat. 58 Democrats, 40 Republicans, 2 Independents.

THIS IS THE SECOND TIME THE DEMOCRATS HAD A SHOT AT A 60-VOTE MAJORITY AND STILL NEEDED THE INDEPENDENTS.

February 4, 2010 – Scott Brown sworn in to replace Paul Kirk. 57 Democrats, 41 Republicans, 2 Independents.

June 28, 2010 – Robert Byrd dies. Byrd had missed over 90% of the votes in 2010 and almost 50% in 2009 due to illness. 56 Democrats, 41 Republicans, 2 Independents, 1 vacant.

November 29, 2010 - Mark Kirk sworn in to replace Roland Burris. 56 Democrats, 42 Republicans, 2 Independents.

Super-majority? It never really existed because during
two periods when Teddy Kennedy and/or Robert Byrd were unable to vote they still needed to get the votes of every Democrat plus BOTH independents.

FACT: The "Democrat supermajority" is a G.O.P. lie.

FACT: The GOP used every roadblock, filibuster, and secret hold they could think of so that EVERY bill had to have a 60-vote margin to pass

Wake up2840

Rick, take a bath, get a job, and move out of your mother's basement.

Your unwavering faith in your own bull@!$%# rhetoric is exactly why your party is guaranteed to lose big next November. Go ahead and continue to believe that I need a bath, that I need a job, and that I'm living in my mother's basement. Your ignorance = my bliss.

The oil is Canadian oil to be exported, so how is it going to help the US?

Besides, the pipeline goes though the Nebraska aquafier that supplies water to that area and surrounding states. Don't you think it's prudent to think of the end result and not just "oh, this sounds like a good idea now"? Why should we(US citizens) accept a plan that is not even thought through to the end. Wasn't the Iraq War debacle a lesson of how important planning is as oppose to rushing in with guns a blazing?

Ignorance without facts!

We don't need THAT pipeline because most of the oil that will flow through it is already contracted for export. It does nothing for our energy independence and certainly not for our balance of payments problems because the oil belongs to Canada, not the US.

The majority of the jobs are temporary. Very few permanent jobs will be created by the pipeline. This pipeline might or might not be a good idea. As CR pointed out, why rush the decision? The wrong decision could be devastating.

RealAmericanValues ---Really? That's your objection? That's it? Oil pipelines have crisscrossed our country for 70+ years. They are everywhere now. People live near oil pipelines all over the country. Ever see a map with the lines located? Your grasp of the vital importance of oil and the energy it supplies our modern society and our economy seems rudimentary at best. You would cut off your nose to spite your face by denying a profit to the companies with the expertise necessary to bring the mammoth project to completion.

CRinCali ---------- You say the oil will be imported from Canada so how does it help us? It helps us by giving us energy to fuel our gigantic economy. It helps us in the same way oil imported from Norway, or Nigeria or Mexico does. Our modern society is dependent on energy to survive, without it we would shrivel and wither away. You don't want to live in a society without energy. If we don't take this Canadian oil certainly other countries are lined up to do so, like China. Why would you punish us and aid our rivals?

Another point, the pipeline will not " go through the Nebraska aquifer ". Pipelines are buried 4 or 5 feet deep. The Ogallala aquifer is much deeper than this, generally found between 50 and 300 feet. You can exhale; your fears on this issue are unfounded. We have technology that has been dealing with safely laying pipelines for decades.

The jobs will be in Canada and the oil will go to China. Not for US consumption.

What cr4p to build a pipeline all the way across the US to move oil to texas to refine!! We already know how the cost of just trucking fruit across the US raises its cost and that local economies that buy produce locally keep costs down and improve local economies helping local businesses. There are plenty of northern US refineries in Wyoming and Colorado, Montana, so why all the way to texas? Do ya think the oil lobbying money has anything to do with this? It is a bad business decision for the US (it is a Federal decision as it is to cross state boundaries) reguardless of the shaky enviromental history of big oil (valdez. BP, yellowstone, etc.)

Texas is not a part of the United States just ask any Texian. Do not subsides the oil companies. Make the oil companies pay for the debt crisis. The recession/ debt crisis was caused by over speculation, not only in the realestate but also oil prices. These factors along with non-regulated banking practice and stagnant wages for people making less than $100,000 caused the recession/ debt crisis. The congress not doing their job and realizing their mistakes with the expenditures, wars and tax cuts also contributed. Get rid of the congressman that say no to raising tax and cutting subsides and expenditures that are not funded. Taxs for expenditures that you want to keep or cut the expenditures. If you don't want to tax war then cut spending. I you don't want to tax gas for oil subsides then do away with oil subsides. I you don't want to tax Medicare then cut Medicare spending.

Gary ... I suggest that you re-read CR's post. He never said that the oil was to be imported from Canada. He stated that the oil was destined for export, which is quite true. Most of the oil has been committed for export to other countries (not the US). So, basically, the oil will be brought in from Canada, refined in Texas, and loaded on tankers for other countries. How does that help the US?

what!? and I thought that the libbies above were out of touch; you drank all the liberal cool-aid!

People - this isn't a jobs bill, this is a useless pipeline - read the facts. A republican governor said no when they wanted to re-route this thing through his state, its a waste and it will harm the environment for dirty oil, this thing is basically getting oil from tar pits. In addition and independent study says that the jobs it will create are no more than 1500 part time construction jobs and maybe 50 permanent ones. Is this worth it???? No!

You act as though he has a choice. The Republicans own him in the items brought to Congress

Somebody has to do the compromising; without compromise democracy is failure. You know the party of NO wont do it.

That is some right wing crap. President Obama did have Democrats in the House and Senate. He did not have robots in the Senate however. He had Mitch McConnell who insisted on requiring 60 votes on any and all legislation. Democrats never had 60 votes. The Democrats have several disagreeable Democrats like Ben Nelson, Mary Landrieu and Kent Conrad as well as Joe Lieberman. With a small Democratic majority in the best of times it was not possible to pass anything without a couple of republican votes. The republicans who stepped up were Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe to get important legislation done. Even Scott Brown, after watering down good legislation for corporate lobbyists to less effective legislation, would vote for it eventually. President Obama has been stymied by Democrats as well as republicans. You should pay a bit more attention to what the GOP does to prevent any accomplishments whatsoever.

Super x. How would Paul do away with 80% of Congress. The Constitution dictates how many congress people there will be. He is supposed to be a great believer of the Constitution.

Ron Paul would do away with 80% of what our Federal Government does because 80% of its activity is unconstitutional.

There are hundreds of pipeline criss-crossing this country, including over the Ogallala Aquifer

Wally, you are full up to your eyebrows. You know absolutely nothing about the Ogallala aquifer and even less about the sandhills region of Nebraska. I do not oppose the pipeline but I am adamantly opposed to the currently proposed pathway. Just move the damned thing and follow the path of the already existing pipeline. Stay out of the sandhills. Only a completely ignorant ass or a Republican congressman (sorry, I repeat myself) would think it a good idea to build it there.

nein nein nein

The Canadian Co. has ALREADY said that it will go around the Sandhills.

The special legislative session to deal with siting TransCanada's proposed Keystone XL oil pipeline took an abrupt turn Monday when the company agreed to not seek a route through the Sandhills.

And that work on the Pipeline could start in 6-9 months.

TransCanada expects that discussions between Flood and the State Department will result in something less than a completely new environmental impact statement that could take years to complete. With state and federal officials working together, he thinks 6-9 months is within the realm of possibility.

http://journalstar.com/news/unicameral/transcanada-agrees-to-avoid-sandhills/article_0c40fe6c-df15-5ea1-8cab-1cee8725fd04.html

So what's the reason for NOT approving it now??

Tom who said the the Oil is going overseas?? The TransCanada Co. says that is being sold to the US.And if you would use your head you would realize that there are plenty of Canadian Ports on the Great Lakes that they could export the oil from. So why would they spend 13 Billion to build a 1600 mile pipe to do what they can already do for nothing?

Here is what TransCanada says about where the oil is going.

TransCanada believes Keystone XL will ultimately be approved, as it is too important to the U.S. economy and its national interest. As well, Keystone XL remains the best option for producers to supply crude oil to U.S. Gulf Coast Refineries.
The U.S. consumes 15 million barrels of oil each day and imports 10 to 11 million barrels per day. Industry forecasts predict oil consumption will continue at these levels for the next two to three decades, so a secure supply of crude oil is critical to U.S. energy security.

http://www.transcanada.com/keystone.html

Yeah, I know THEY LIE. Yep. they are just like ALL corporations. Can't believe a word they say.

Now you post a source that says that the oil is going overseas and not to the US.

solodon......THANK YOU!

It's just another failure of our school system. If Canada wanted the oil to go to Asia, China or Japan, the coast of B.C. is a lot closer than the Gulf. There would be absolutely no reason to run the pipeline through the U.S.

No reasons other than the Rocky Mountains, and four lesser ranges between the Rockies and the BC coast, you mean?

Disagree about gas prices! The oil companies control all in this country. Up whenever they want to do so. Neither party has any control over this

Nomad, it would not help our gas prices. This oil will not be consumed in the US it is almost all going to be exported. And super x is correct. The market or the speculators control the oil prices.

Oil companies do not control the price. It is a commodity traded on the exchange daily. Which is why it fluctuates. The U.S. doesn't expand production thanks to Socialist democrats like Owebama, Dingy Harry, Nancy Pelosi, Opec cuts production. Then when they see we enact ridiculous legislation hurting our capabilities even farther they (OPEC) cut production again raising prices even more. This Country was built on the sweat of men who were not afraid to invest there life savings into improving this country with products they invent or improve. The democrat party once stood for working families and they haven't stood for the working family since the 1800's. Ever since FDR they have become the Socialist Party. Big Government has NEVER created anything and never will. They rob from her citizens all they can. We are saying NOMORE!!!The only ting the Federal Government is responcible to do is defend the US and Owebama will not even secure our borders or enforce the Monroe Doctrine. All Democrats are traitors to the working family of America.

Leonard Morell...Yes...Big Oil does control the price of oil in this country. Ask any gas station owner what happens when he gets his marching orders from his US Big Oil suppliers. Sorry, that BS about how Big Oil doesn't control prices is an old saw that no longer cuts. The proof that they in fact DO control the prices of oil is how many price increases they insist upon in a single year. They own the contracts to those Middle East Oil fields. If they didn't, their names wouldn't be on those oil silos all over the Middle East.

Big Oil produces one other product no one seems to realize: BS.

Uh...this is not about raising taxes...read the article.

Djj, your ignorance is showing. The House has passed 16 jobs bills. Most with almost unanimous Democrat support. Harry Ried, a Democrat, and majority leader of the senate has tabled ( read killed)all 16 bills. No vote, no debate, no nothing. Seems like the Democrats are holding up the jobs. The purpose of two houses is so debate, amendment, etc. can occur. But Harry has decided he wants no part of it. Why, something might actually get done.

oldman, those weren't job bills. The Republicans called them that, but all it was was lining the pockets of big corp. And no the majority of the democrats did not vote for them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "They were BULL$HIT bills from the GOP T-ReTards" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Aunt Anna--As Warren Buffet reportedly said recently, the class war is over and the rich won. Those schooled in Marxism will recall that Karl predicted that the middle class would be destroyed and most of its members would sink into the lower class, thus creating a two class society. Then comes the revolution. I hate it when the rich capitalists want to prove Marx right.

Thats soo true! Great post

Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power.
Benito Mussolini

It was the destruction of our banking and monetary system by the Federal Reserve and our Government that destroyed the middle class; not capitalism. The United States is more Fascist than Capitalist according to histories leading expert.

When the banks were making all those bad loans, they were doing what the regulators wanted them to do. It was not lack of regulation but too much power on the part of government regulators who got the country into this mess. SEC regulations have always increased with every blip in the economy since before the Great Depression making the finance industry one of the most regulated industries there is.

#1 A staggering 48 percent of all Americans are either considered to be "low income" or are living in poverty.

_________________________________________

Yet they have big screen TVs and free cable and Internet from the government; what is wrong with this picture?

HUH....who has free cable and internet from the government? How does that happen?

Wake up2840

...Yet they have big screen TVs and free cable and Internet from the government; what is wrong with this picture?

That you are a representative of the party of "Liars Gone Wild".

What you are very conveniently overlooking is that Obama inherited the worst economy in the history of the United States. Due to the Bush/Cheney administration, decisions were made that would unleaseh economic chaos for many years. The corrupt relationship between American corproations and our government has reached the point where no one can fix it without draconian measures.

The collusion between American business and American government is a primer in treachery and treason and should be treated for what it is. We didn't get to this place by accident.

Well, Obama has had three years and has done exactly nothing to fix it.

Wally, if you would have been awake during the 2008 elections, and listened to almost all economists they stated that the job market would take many, many years to come back and this thing was not going to be gone quickly. But all of a sudden Obama gets elected and you think everything should be fixed in a day or two. Get real.

CONGRESS has also had three years to fix the mess that THEY actually created, not any of the administrations. People are always so quick to blame the administration, but forget that it is CONGRESS that controls the purse strings, actually writes and approves a budget (guideline leading to the actual appropriation bills) not the president (he only presents his PROPOSED budget guidelines), and then passes (or never gets around to passing) those required appropriations bills (they seem to love doing the continuing resolutions so that they don't have to go on record for voting for/against an actual appropriations bill.)

Stop putting all of the blame on the Democrats just because they supposedly had control of both chambers of Congress. Under the arcane Senate rules, the majority party NEVER has control unless we the voters give them the super-majority (61) now required to even get cloture to vote on a bill. The past two Congresses have seen the highest number of filibusters and "anonymous" blocking of bills/appointments in the history of this nation.

Correction Verno Socialist Democrats took over in 2006 and gave us a decline in all of the above aunt anna has talked about. All you have to do is look at your favorite leaders it fails everytime. Mao, Breshnev, Stallin, Ahmadinijad. Socialism has failed every single time it is tried. Owebama can't rebrand it and make it work. You went to public school I forgive your ignorance.

Democrats (spelled Socialists) did take over in 2006. Shortly after, Bush tried to do something about the on coming crises, only to be voted down. On top of that, the Socialist-Nihilists controlled the House, Senate and Presidency for two years but chose to work on Obama-Care instead.

Aunt Anna...Collapse is about the only rude awakening Biggie Piggies will ever get. They think individual taxpayers, consumers and their employees are their permanent cash cows. Those bailouts prevented the house cleaning the Biggie Piggies needed all along.

A crash can't hurt those already destroyed since 2004. But, it will take some of gas out of the gas bags with all the moolah who think there's no end to the good life.

Politicians got us into this problem. Only politicians can get us out of it. That is, unless Americans wake up and vote out every one in DC. Just think, in 6 years we could peacefully reshape Washington and let them know they will be held accountable.

American voters have eliminated almost every honest politician to speak the truth over the past 40 years with very very few exceptions. For example, Social Security has been known to be an intergenerational ponzi scheme for several decades yet the program has been called the "Third Rail" of politics because any politician who spoke the truth on this was voted out of office. Ronald Reagan was one exception and Ron Paul is another. American politicians are corrupt because American voters, especially senior citizens, punish honesty.

Vote for Ron Paul if he makes the Republican ticket.

Vote LIBERTARIAN if he does not.

I agree JEM. It would be politically suicide for any politician to be honest with the voters and would no way get elected or re-elected.

You hit it on the head. Newt a small aquatic salamander that is slippery and slimy. We already got one of those for President now, why would we want another to take his place after 2012?

Ron Paul in 2012

What happened, I'm sure Ron would be very proud of the idiots that are backing him and using that kind of derogatory language. Not.

verno

What this country needs is a leader, not another political whore that will only tell people what they want to hear to get votes.

I'm sorry that you don't know enough about the candidates to make an informed choice. But that is the American way, isn't it. And that is why we end up having do nothing Presidents like Bush Jr. and Obama.

That is why this leaderless country is turning into a 3rd world nation. We don't elect leaders, we elect dog that chase their tail taking this country no where but down.

This country does NOT need a leader. Saddam Hussein was a leader. Stalin was a leader. Mussolini was a leader. Hitler was a leader. We do NOT want a leader. Americans make up their own minds and pursue their own interests. Americans are not sheep who need to be led. A US President is supposed to be our follower in chief. He is an ADMINISTRATOR who oversees the bureaucracy in carrying out the laws of the land. That's what a President's job is supposed to be. He works for us and follows our direction. We do not work for him.