At least they know where to put their RIGHT hand.

blearyeyed - the one guy got the rest confused by changing the lyrics.

everyone both sides, talk about the illegal problem; no party wants to do anything to alienate 11 million possible voters; yep, illegals are registered to vote in most states, all it takes is a utility bill to show you are residing in the vote area. everyone talks the talk, no one wants to walk the walk .

It is hard to suck up all at once to business interests who love cheap immigrant labor, to the Latino voters, and to the rank and file republicans who hate illegals. At least their faces are brown from that effort...

And pray tell, how did they register, Saxon?

Illegals with a stolen SSN and valid or faked drivers license can illegally register to vote. Imagine how many hundreds of thousand or maybe millions of illegals could be voting!

The suggestions here prove again that solutions to complex problems are simple when you don't have to think them through....

(everything is so tiny on this thread...why?)

Also, kick them off the Gov't teat, No welfare, No housing vouchers, No free ride!!!

Whit collar your right, Pen is a moron....

scott fl REB-1013231

You guys suffer due to lack of knowledge. What's the make up of BRITAIN? You are correct to call it Scottish embassy, English embassy because that's the makeup. Expand your english.

As if the Obama Commies have it right, the media is soooo full of it........

Interesting how Ron Paul was cropped from the picture on the main page. Stay classy MSNBC!

HS321- You're right, I do not know much about their overall effect on the economy. However, I do know that as illegals it is difficult (yes, I realize there are illegal ways to get around it) for them to obtain tax payer subsidised services and aid. I would be willing to bet we are getting more money out of them than they are taking from us. If you count the cost of the complete failure of an immigration policy we currently have, well then I don't know how it pans out.

The fining and prosecution of those that hire is a better option, but not the option that the current front runners are really proposing. It is always detain, deport, military on the border and either an extremely costly fence and/ or extremely costly technological surveillance.

Oh, and thanks for not being a partisan prick about it. I, unlike many on here can admit I don't know everything...but I do have the sense enough to know that partisan diatribe isn't likley to work either.

HS321- You're right, I do not know much about their overall effect on the economy. However, I do know that as illegals it is difficult (yes, I realize there are illegal ways to get around it) for them to obtain tax payer subsidised services and aid. I would be willing to bet we are getting more money out of them than they are taking from us. If you count the cost of the complete failure of an immigration policy we currently have, well then I don't know how it pans out.

The fining and prosecution of those that hire is a better option, but not the option that the current front runners are really proposing. It is always detain, deport, military on the border and either an extremely costly fence and/ or extremely costly technological surveillance.

Oh, and thanks for not being a partisan prick about it. I, unlike many on here can admit I don't know everything...but I do have the sense enough to know that partisan diatribe isn't likley to work either.

Oh my god......you're all idiots.

For anyone who's still going on about "the President put his left hand over the right side of his chest!" how about a little clarity into basic photo-manipulation. It's called REVERSING the image! Good lord you're a moron if you can't figure that out.

And, as proof, here's a link: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/photos/lefthand.asp

Man, I can't believe I have to explain this to you people. It's so obviously fake that it makes me weep to think what other blatant lies and falsehoods you people fall for. Ugh...

Madison, you think legal 'hard working citizens' work harder than illegal immigrants? Illegals work their collective butts off for paltry wages under nearly inhumane conditions. Why? Because if they utter one peep of a complaint, they will be heading back to where they came from.

Hard working citizens, on the other hand, complain, call in sick, demand a raise because Joe got one and have no idea just how important having a job is.

If you want to get rid of illegals, by the way, send those who employ them under slave labor conditions to jail. Of course, since a great number of American employers embrace the Republican mantra of no taxes and no regulations, Republicans will only talk about illegal workers and do absolutely nothing for fear of ticking off their business base.

Paul-Florida

At least they know where to put their RIGHT hand.

========

.......Some might suggest Bachmann put it over her mouth, while Cain wanted to put his on her leg......OK, OK, I'm being nasty today, it just seems so fitting given how things have been going with these people.

gdvegas

At least they are not as stupid as Dumbama and his wife who still don't know left from right

You do know that was a photo that was turned around, right?

I've been in the country illegaly since 1995 and it never occurred to me to go out and vote. Nor have I ever applied for welfare or any other kind of government help, and the same goes for all the illegals I know.

The main thing is to keep low until we find a way to become citizens through a relative or getting married or what have you.

I really don't understand how some people have become so hysterical about this issue. There are entire towns in the midwest disappearing from the map because they don't have enough people in them, the US ecnomy needs more people to spend money and open businesses.

Once the next immigration reform is put into practice it'll be very difficult for future illegals to stay in the US because now (finally) they can't get a driver's license and without a DL, forget it, you can't do anything.

Get it done and fuggedaboutit!

Americans First-3238795

Mr. Americans First....

Your assumption that illegals aren't going to risk being involved with politic's and that election results means nothing to them couldn't be further from the truth. You sir, are in denial.

Ever been to an unemployment office in a Border Town?; How about the Human Health & Services Dept. in a Border Town?; Food Stamp Office?; Medicaid dept?.... No, I didn't think so.

You havn't got a clue about what you're saying or talking about.

White Collar Auto, what are you talking about? England isn't a state in Great Britain. Great Britain is the name of the Island that the countries of England, Wales, and Scotland are on. These countries are united in what is known as the United Kingdom.

"Sharon Castillo, a former Republican National Committee (RNC) official in charge of Spanish-language outreach, said she was skeptical of Obama’s ability to court Hispanic voters since he’d failed to advance the DREAM Act or comprehensive immigration reform."

Indeed. Obama has failed to even attempt to keep his promise of 'comprehensive Immigration reform', so he's not likely to get much traction with Hispanics in 2012.

Actually, if the Republicans nominate the Hispanic Marco Rubio for VP, it's possible the Republicans could actually get close to half of the Hispanic vote, which would be a disaster for Obama.

But Obama's biggest problem is the loss of people who self-identify as Democrats. In 2008, the Democrats had a 7% edge over Republicans (39% vs 32%), and since they vote 90% for the Democratic candidate, that accounted for virtually the entire 7% voter edge for Obama in 2008.

Now those voters who self-identify favor the Republicans by 34% vs 33%, and since the Independent voters now reject Obama by a 60% vs 40% margin, it appears that Obama's likely to get a maximum of about 44% of the vote in 2012 - less if the Hispanics and young and disenchanted voters also back away. He could get less than the 41% that Carter got in 1980.

The similarities between Obama and Carter are striking - both got elected on high hopes and were supposedly 'smart', but both turned out to be incompetent and an economic disaster for the Country.

The immigration issue is a scam. It is intended to deflect us from stuff that matters a whole lot more than some Mexicans doing the dirty work for us.

I'm not saying it is no problem at all, but there are so many things ahead of that it is meaningless in comparison. It just makes good campaign talk to get us pissed off at anyone but our do nothing congress.

The biggest problem we have are the stupid wars and the military spending to support the American Empire. Does anyone believe we are making any friends in the mid east? If you see your families getting wiped out would you care why foreign troops are in your country?

Time to get with actual defense instead of stupid offense.

We need leadership like we had with Eisenhower, a true Conservative, something we don't have anymore. In my opinion he was the greatest president in modern times. I'm 80 years old and those we have ellected in office since then are simply making sure the rich get richer as even that is not working well for them.

We would be a lot better off without the crazy trade deals and we'd be a lot richer if we paid more for made in America than that cheap stuff we get from places like China. The difference is that as things are now, only the greedy rich get richer while the rest of us are handed bogus issues to fight over. We can't eat immigration BS. We need real food.

Obama's campaign is poised to make an issue of it too.

Is that really a smart move? I mean, late next summer the debates will begin, and Obama will have to answer for what he has done with the immigration problem.....which is, of course, absolutely nothing!

raddave "White Collar Auto, what are you talking about? England isn't a state in Great Britain."

Actually, you're wrong. Internationally, all countries are considered 'States', so England would indeed be a 'State' - just not in the context that we use here.

In a similar way, when people talk about 'Americans', they could be talking about 'States' in the Americas, like Canada and the US are in North America, then there are numerous 'States' in Central America and South America. Here's a link;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State

not one mention of Ron Paul in the whole article?

To those who think illegal immigrants hurt our economy, go talk to the Republican farmers in Alabama. These farmers are now struggling because they can not find workers, so crops are going to waste, which also takes jobs from American truck drivers because there is less to transport. It is affecting everyone from the farmer to the store buyers, to the consumers of the product. Furthermore, less products means less taxes from their sales. Less immigrants in the state are resulting in less payroll taxes and less sales taxes from their own personal purchases.

My favorite part was an interview with a Republican farmer who voted for the people that implemented the law. Now he says that the people he voted for, and their laws, are hurting his business and his family income. Of course he says he will still vote Republican, even though they hurt his business. I call that poetic justice, he is getting exactly what he voted for . . . more problems for his business and personal income as a result of his own stupidity.

There is an overall philosophical issue with immigration: Americans do not like illegal immigrants but they like their food cheap. So what is more important, your political ideology or your wallet? Personally, I would rather keep my money then push a political platform that will never work. Apparently other people have no problem wasting more of their own, hard-earned money.

Cut off all free benefits to them. The UK needs their pensions paid for also. China is the only smart one of the bunch, they told them not no, but hell no they would not give them any money. We don't have enough American taxpayers to cover all these benefits. Deport them all this will create jobs.

Each of the candidates have personal issues that far outweigh their stand on immigration!

Workhorse

Really? You buy that snopes bs?

So.....all those men in that photo have their left hand over their heart?

The obots (includes snopes) will say anything for their messiah.

Doug Ponders ... using the term "messiah" is revealingly ignorant!

Typical...Democrats complaining about the Republicans...Republicans complaining about the Democrats. You people are like a class of 4th graders shooting spitballs at each other. And in the back corner is a bunch of geniuses arguing about what the British call their embassy.

How about we try something new? Do any of you have any ideas on how to improve immigration policy in this country? I think we should do the following.

1. Reform the immigration process to make it easier for people to become US citizens. I am not saying we should lay the borders open (sorry, I know I stole someone's thunder), but it should be a more straightforward process with all of the necessary security measures in place.

2. Deport any immigrant that has been living in the US illegally for less than 5 years and provide them with guidance on obtaining legal status. If they fail to do so, the US takes possession of their assets in the US as payment for the services they used illegally. We need their tax dollars and need them to get with the program.

3. Give immigrants living in the US illegally for more than 5 years 90 days to make their status legal. If this is not done within 90 days, the US takes possession of their assets in the US as payment for the services they used illegally, and they are deported. Again, we need their tax dollars and need them to get with the program.

4. Anchor Babies: If an illegal immigrant fails or refuses to obtain legal status, then their children born in the US forfeit their citizenship and are deported with their parents.

5. Here's a revolutionary idea: Under the plan above, illegal immigrants that gain legal citizenship are required to serve a set number of years in the military. Not only will they pay back what they owe us, but they will leave the military with the training required to get a decent job.

Now you might not like my idea, it's probably not the perfect idea, but at least I have one. That is more than I can say for most of the people on this thread. For people that actually want to help this country, please tell me what you think and post some of your ideas. For those who don't, please continue shooting spitballs and arguing about the British.

most americans wont ask why ron paul is not being covered in the media.and why for the last 40 years ron been right about everything.ron been winning most straw polls and every other polls but none is reported in the corrupt media.but for the most part,most floride heads americans will vote for the guys with the nice hair cause there taking orders from there tv,the proven cronic liers tv anchors with also nice hair.pretty much most americans are just to dam lazy to do research on there own and they like being played for fools

Anthony California

not one mention of Ron Paul in the whole article?

=====

..........Okay, I thought he looked constipated, really, look at the expression on his face.

Imagine how many hundreds of thousand or maybe millions of illegals could be voting!

Some people deal with facts and the real world, but the haters prefer to deal with fantasy, lies, and scary 'imaginings'.

If, as you claim, there are "hundreds of thousands" or "millions" of unauthorized immigrants voting, you should have no trouble documenting cases of people being convicted of what is considered a very serious federal crime.

I'll make it easy for you. I'm not asking for "hundreds of thousands" of documented cases of a conviction. I'm not asking for tens of thousands, or thousands, or hundreds, or even TEN cases.

Just provide verifiable documentation of even ONE convinction for an unauthorized immigrant trying to vote. JUST ONE.

Anywhere in the United States at any time in the past 20 years.

If, as you say, there are "millions" or even only "hundreds of thousands" of such violations, you ought to be able to document at least ONE conviction.

Otherwise admit that you don't know what you are talking about and made the whole thing up.

You know what we call it when people make up phony stories, right?

It's called "lying".

Okay, Britain is the island, the three united kingdoms are England Scotland and Wales.

blearyeyed -- I see one guy singing. Do the rest of them know the words?

It's so funny you said that because my first thought was criticism about President Obama not putting his hand over his heart for the anthem even though this only applies to the Pledge of Allegiance. But then these GOP/TP candidates don't know that! Ooops, Ron Paul doesn't have a flag pin on his lapel, and Gingrich is doing it half-hearted, ha!

And where is the punk with an off-topic post about how President Obama is in battleground states (actually less then Bush), and where was the outrage from Republicans about Bush when he was doing it? Back to the article...

Only right-wing simpletons think positions on immigration are more important than merit. The rest of the nation is more concerned about how ignorant the GOP/TP candidates are, or in the case of Gingrich, how much of a scum a person can be. What is tripping up GOP presidential candidates is all the stupid stuff coming out of their mouths, and scandals (as usual).

Teapublicans, either stay home on election day or write-in the name of a candidate you can actually vote FOR. Enough with this "anyone but Obama" un-American mentality. The rest of the nation knows we will be much better off with four more years under President Obama than any of these GOP/TP douche-bags.

said it before and I'll say it again, if you kick these guys out, who will cut their lawns or do their laundry?

They will self-deport, just like

The Jews in Nazi Germany?

That's what the Nazis tried, too. First they made it illegal for Jews to be citizens. Then they made it illegal for Jews to work. Next they made it illegal to hire Jews.

After a while, they realized that if the really wanted to get rid of the Jews, they would have to round them up and depart them. So built concentrations camps where they could keep the Jews once they rounded them up. (Arizona has a contract in place with Correction Corporation of America to build, maintain, staff, and operate concentration camps for rounded up immigrants. That's why the paid to have SB 1070 passed.)

Finally, someone said, "these concentration camps are too expensive. Why don't we just exterminate them like rats."

hs321, you are assuming that everyone that hires "plays by the rules". There are many people in this country who hire workers and do not report them as "workers". I guarantee you there are many people here in this country, legal as well as illegal residents, who get paid "under the table".

Also, assessing a fine may not be that much of a deterrent if the fine is small enough to not affect the business owner. Any company making huge amounts of money will see fines as a minor inconvenience. Jail sentences aren't the answer either. Jailing them will add to the prison population, which means that you and I, as taxpayers, will be paying for their incarceration.

If you believe this will lead to "self-deportation", you are sadly mistaken. Even if they would be incapable of earning a living, do you really believe returning to a country where conditions are worse would be what they would prefer? Believe me, homeless American citizens have learned how to live without much, if any, income. Illegals are just as capable.

Most people posting here believe they have the answer, and yet none of you are working as an elected official (which would put you in a position to do what you say should be done). And most look at this issue, like all others, as being simplistic in correcting. No one answer fits all. That's more a Communistic point of view.

Buzz in the bunker

You've got THAT wrong, too. Wales was only a principality. Under various Acts of Union, England and Scotland were united early in the eighteenth century and Ireland early in the nineteenth century. A clue is to see how the Union Jack has changed over time.

Now you might not like my idea, it's probably not the perfect idea

Actually, it's a pretty stupid idea. Force people to serve in the military? That's a terrible and i'm sure the Joints Chiefs wouldn't accept that. How about we prosecute and fine the people that hire these illegals. After all, the majority are here to find work. Any kind at any price. A bargain for the 1%'ers. Oh wait, we can't do that. Or, should I say, the Repubs won't do that.

Just look at the picture of this group of GOP losers, it looks like a lineup of robots. These people hate immigrants, gays, muslims, jews, catholics, democrats, hispanics and all poor people........the list is so long it might be easier to say who they don't hate.......RICH PEOPLE and THEMSELVES!

The hate-filled, bigoted, nasty, inhumane, selfish, ethnocentric, misinformed, ill-informed, and just plain stupidity of many of the comments regarding the issue of illegal immigrants is not only embarrassing to most Americans, but completely un-American. When did this country become so filled with hatred and pathetic misguided arrogance? Tis the "haters" that need to be expelled. Throw the bums out, I say, the rest of America would be much better off! Idiots all. Take off the blinders and THINK! Oh, that is asking the impossible. The downward spiral of our educational system is coming to fruition, and a nation of irrational non-thinkers has emerged from the ashes. Aren't we lucky?

I am very proud to be an American, and believe in the principles the nation was founded upon. The "haters" among you have no idea what I am talking about, and despite what you believe, you are most definately NOT real Americans. Better to take pride in our diversity and acceptance of other people who contribute to this nation in a positive way, than to be the negative people who bring us down as a nation. Clowns.

Do any of you have any ideas on how to improve immigration policy in this country?

• Eliminate all the bigoted quotas and the idiotic attempts at social engineering by woefully incompetent politicians. The cap on "unskilled labor" at 5,000 people per year is a case in point. The politicians want only PhDs to enter the country, but our factories want laborers (we used to have a lot of them before we made working a crime, and for the past 20 years, those factories have been hiring an average of nearly 500,000 unauthorized foreign born workers). And, unlike the idiot politicians, our factories are willing to TRAIN the laborers with the skills that are actually needed.
• Make it easy to obtain a work visa. Pass 'em out like candy to whoever wants one. You don't get a job, you have to leave. You get a job and pay taxes, you can stay and renew your visa close to home (no leaving the country required). Give the work visas directly to the workers, to avoid the selling of visas by private companies and de facto near-slave conditions like those promoted by Senator Sensenbrenner.
• Decide person by person who gets to stay out of the 10.8 million people already here. Some have been here for decades. Some have family here (US born citizen spouses, US born citizen children, etc.). Criminals gotta go. People who work hard and pay taxes are welcome to stay.
• Leave the Constitution the way it is. What part of ILLEGAL do YOU not understand? Overstaying a visa is a civil misdemeanor that harms no one. Violating the Constitution is a detriment to us all.
• Streamline the process for citizenship (why should spouses of US citizens have to wait 3 years before they are allowed to get a paying job?), but mainly streamline the process for obtaining a visa (why should it take 75 years for most Mexicans and Philipinos, when Scandinavians can apply for visas granted in a few months, and even win a visa in the ethnic "diversity" lottery (not open to most brown, black, or yellow people).

you might not like my idea, it's probably not the perfect idea, but at least I have one.

True on all three counts, but I welcome the discussion. It is a refreshing change from the virulent, brainless, bigoted diatribes usually posted about immigration.

"Romney’s used immigration to fend off surging who have tried to emerge as his alternative."

I've read this sentence from the article three times and I still don't understand it.

?????????

Workhorse #1.26 perhaps you should go back to that snopes cite and take a little harder look at it.

First, I find it amusing when two pictures are used to prove a point but the pictures are of different sizes and angles.

Second,if your contention is that the pictures were inverted, flipped or whatever take a good long, hard look at the soldier behind president obama. He is clearly saluting with the same hand in both pictures.

If your claims were true then the soldier would be saluting with the wrong hand in one of the pictures. That is why the enlarge the one picture, to obscure the truth, do you know the meaning of the truth.

i'm stumped too sarah. Thats pretty bad even for msnbc.

This forum is just like the electorate--divided. The people in Washington and corporations love it that way. You have blue collar against blue collar, what little left of the Middle Class. and the wealthy. The only ones that agree is the wealthy---screw everyone else and give me more!

Of course Newt Blingrich is all over the map on this one. That jacka$$ is more of a flip-flpper than Romney...

commonsense back with the misinformation about only 5,000 unskilled laborers allowed in the country nonsense. Sure, that's the number on the books, but other policies allow for far more than that to come into the country.

Here are some facts:

"Because of the chain reaction described above, immigration numbers continue to rise. Under the "immediate relatives" category, the parents, spouse, and children of a U.S. citizen are admitted without limit. Therefore, once the law was changed in 1965 to create the so-called family reunification system, chain migration caused the numbers in this category to steadily rise. Five years after chain migration began, the number of immediate relative admissions had nearly doubled (from 32,714 in 1965 to 79,213 in 1970); ten years after, it had almost tripled (to 91,504 in 1975); 15 years after, it was nearly five times higher (151,131 in 1980); 20 years after, it was nearly six times higher (204,368 in 1985); 25 years after, it was seven times higher (231,680 in 1990); less than 30 years after, it was eight times higher (249,764 in 1994); and in 2001, 36 years later, the number of immediate relatives admitted 443,964-over 13 times higher.

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters3e2a

This is sooo simple! Tax them! That's right! Have a "blue card", with the blue card you can live in the U.S. indefinitely, but NEVER be able to apply for citizenship. If you are currently in the country illegally, you must pay a $5,000 fine in addition to paying a blue card "tax" each year of $2,000. This card would be like a Social Security card, only the first three number would indicate you "country of citizenship". Those with a blue card, would continue to pay all U.S. taxes, HOWEVER, they are not eligible to apply for social security or medicare/medicaid NOR are they able to file for tax "refunds", but are required to file a "worker's blue card" IRS tax form, and pay their additional $2,000 tax each year. They are able to collect workman's comp if injured on the job, but for a limited time. They must pay the tax, be employed and not break any laws. They could even have "blue" licenses. If they don't pay their yearly tax, are not employed or break the law...they are deported. Would help "fix" the deficit, bolster Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid and take care of the "illegal" problem. With no amnesty or mass deportations.

I worked with a guy from Scotland, and he expalined this arrangement several times, so I will try it here, but I'm sure it will still someone off, kowing this crowd:

United Kingdom = England + Wales + Scotland + Northern Ireland

Great Britain (also simply known as Britain) = England + Wales + Scotland

England = England

........Okay, go ballistic!

Some great examples of the benefits of illegal immigration -

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45513838/ns/local_news-portland_or/

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/7-plead-guilty-in-major-Ore-drug-trafficking-case-120899644.html

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/09/heroin_dealer_pleads_guilty_to.html

Thousands of stories like this all over the US. Idiots talk about legalizing Marijuana and that will stop this. HA! Whatever... no one up here really wants to smoe Mexican dirt weed. These guys are bringing Heroin and Meth into the states on volumes that would rival anything a legitimate business like fed ex is doing. So much for the cheap labor excuse.

commonsense will cut and paste his answers from all of his other posts but has no answers when confronted and will run and hide from the questions posed. Just a troll with nothing to add to any conversation.

HS has it right in that there is no 5,000 person limit on unskilled laborers. The fact is farmers only have to fill out the paperwork to allow people to come and pick their seasonal crops. The fact is many won't do it because they have to pay a little extra out of their profit, or because they are too sorry to actually sit down and take the time to do it right. The sad truth is that the Governement has let them get away with it for so long that they piss and moan when told to do it right.

WORKHORSE

While you are trying to defend the Pres. please tell us how many states he said were in the Union. Also just the other day when he was in his home state of Hawaii he actually said he was in Asia. Maybe in his mind he really is and maybe he is so smart that he is the only one that knows there are really 52 states in the Union but somehow I doubt that.

Commonsense

Come on please tell everyone about the scientific and thorough report done by the Comptroller of Texas a few years ago. That story is truly hilarious and that you love to use it just shows how ridiculously ignorant you are in your research.

I do not know much about their overall effect on the economy.

I do. There is a certain amount of scholarly research out there if you look for it.

The net effect of unauthorized immigrants on the economy is profoundly positive. In the aggregate, they work hard, pay more in taxes than they receive in government services (unlike the rest of us), pay their bills, and CREATE JOBS for US citizens.

If they were granted official status, they could and would benefit our society and our economy even more than they do.

I would be willing to bet we are getting more money out of them than they are taking from us.

That is also true, and there are studies which prove it.

hs321 mainly cites only unscientific propaganda pushed out by organizations like CIS, NumbersUSA, and FAIR, all of which are part of a network of immigration policy "advocacy groups" founded by Nazi sympathizers like John Tanton. Sad.

If you count the cost of the complete failure of an immigration policy we currently have, well then I don't know how it pans out.

It seems to me that the cost of the complete failure of an immigration policy ought to be ascribed to the bigots who adamantly refuse to consider improvement of any of our highly dysfunctional system of immigration rules, not to the people who immigrate outside the system merely because the system does not allow them to immigrate WITHIN the system.

It is the system that is defective, not the immigrants.

This conservative says Gingrich is 100% correct. A fellow with a family who's been working here 25 years paying taxes and never getting in trouble should be legal. He has earned his legality. It's not his fault our immigration system is broke and the big stupid bureaucrats won't provide visa paperwork on a timely basis.

What does make sense, is this:

1. seal the border. It takes men, not fences to do this. Fences can help, but you have to man the gaps. It will take money, but perhaps a neighborhood watch type program to report on gaps and using local law enforcement can help.

2. Congress(president can't pass law) needs to pass laws to create heavy penalties for people who employ illegals. Take the jobs away, most will leave on their own.

3. Create an accelerated path to citizenship for those that have been here XX(20?) years or more. Give them 1 year to register.

4. Involve local law enforcement.

5. After that 1 year grace period, bus them back by attrition as they look for jobs, get speeding tickets, etc..

You know better than that Michael.

hs321, back with the Nazi inspired propaganda from FAIR? Founded by John Tanton, who has written glowingly about the Nazi policies regarding "genetics" and how we need the same thing in the United States? Shame on you.

The 5,000 limit is current US law, as hs has admitted on other occasions.

What is it about quotas that you guys find so mesmerizing?

Answer: they are a way to minimize the number of icky brown and black and yellow people in the United States. Cowards.

commonsense

You are the ignorant one that said look at the Jews and then tried to compare them with the illegals. Pull your head out and realize there is no comparrison. The Jews were legal citizens of Germany. Hitler passed a law to take that citizenship away. The same is not true about the millions of illegals in this country no matter how many times you post it!

Also please please tell us about these studies that show the illegals actually add to the economy and not take away. Please post them so that all can see your true ignorance.

Please tell us about the Rand Report and your fav from Texas.

Throw out all the illegals. What is so freaking hard to understand about that. We can't pay the USA's bills and others at the same time, that is what we are doing, it is sickening to see all of them benefit from my country. Come here legally fine, come here illegally and get the F*CK OUT. There is a bunch of you that are going to say that is cruel, here is what is cruel illegals getting money from my country to take care of there family's when family's here can't get the help they need. GET OUT! Is it ok for me to commit a crime and not be punished NO but everyday that illegals are here that is exactly what is happening they are getting away with a crime.

Michael Lockwood

Why would I ever purposely go to Alabama? Sorry, but I would rather visit hell than that backwards state. But good job completely missing the point.

Let me spell it out for you . . . Illegal immigrants keep farm labor cheap, which allows farmers to produce more, giving more jobs to truckers, buyers, and everyone else involved in the process of getting produce from the ground to the store. In addition, they keep the prices cheap, so I don't have to waste money on higher priced food. Thus, I am in favor of it . . . because I like my money. Yes, I am a greedy bastard.

Now you can make the argument that they are "stealing" jobs from Americans, or strict immigration laws will open up jobs for Americans. But why the hell should I care about an American who is so worthless and stupid that they are only qualified for illegal immigrant work? Am I supposed to feel sorry for some pathetic moron whose only value is pulling a plant out of the ground? Do you think I care what their citizen status is? They had the opportunity to better themselves in a country of opportunity, and they decided to remain an idiot. So do I feel some uneducated "American" should get the job over an immigrant who struggled to get here? Hell no. Why? They did nothing with their life so why should I care if they get passed up for a job?

You think I am going to defend someone just because they are classified as "American"? Oh look, they were born here and they are a citizen . . . so what? Look around. Look at the type of people this country creates. What makes them any better than illegal immigrants? The place they were born, their parents? That's it, that's the only difference . . . where and who they were born to. And now I am supposed to care more about them for that simple, meaningless reason? Please, don't make me laugh.

You said it "a greedy bastard"!

However if you knew anything about economics you would also realize that labor costs do not add that much to the cost of produce. By the way the costs of produce did not go up in Alabama, and your seeming belief in that BS, only goes to show ignorance to the whole topic of disscussion.

Your whole post is ridiculous in that you apparently think that illegals are only here working in the fields so you can have a cheap salad. The fact is only around 800,000 laborers work in the produce business each year. That includes both legal and illegal.

Illegals are working in many other job fields including construction. Do you think the home builders were passing on any savings to the customer. If you do I got property in Juarez I'd like to sell you.

Actually you sound like one of those business owners that need the illegals so you can make an extra dime. Good luck with that! As far as looking around and seeing the type of people that this country creates, I see millions of good people trying to get by without having to pay to fund the livelyhoods of millions of people that snuck across the borders.

Better yet you probably never paid a dime in taxes in your whole life. Go back and sit at your parents dinner table and eat your cheap salad and let grown ups discuss the topic.

Michael,

I was using the farm laborers as a single example. I hate to disappoint you, but I am not going to sit here and list out every single business that benefits, and reduces the cost of their product, because of illegals.

I see millions of good people trying to get by without having to pay to fund the livelyhoods of millions of people that snuck across the borders.

And I see millions of people, like you, who have failed at life and blame someone else for their own miserable situation. "It's all Obama's fault"... "It's all the fault of illegal aliens"... "It's all because of liberals"... "Whaaaa whaaaaa". So much for personal responsibility, huh? Why take responsibility when you can blame illegals for your own failure.

On top of that, you actually think we "fund their livelyhoods"? Now who is the ignorant one? The vast majority of illegals maintain a low profile and avoid government institutions like the plague. It's the whole fear of deportation.

But hey, you keep blaming them for your own problems. God forbid you ever take personal responsibility for your own situation. You are probably one of those Republicans who lives off government funds and doesn't like the idea of someone else taking a piece of your handout. Just don't forget the number one rule for Fox News viewers: Never take responsibility yourself, always blame Obama, the liberals, illegal immigrants, gays and muslims... in that order.

Have you ever been to Alabama?

Leave it to a totalitarian social engineer like Michael Lockwood to declare that he and he alone is 'wise' enough to determine who farmers in Alabama should hire to help them harvest their crops.

I trust the farmers to know about farming. I trust the factory owners and managers to know how to run their own businesses. Lockwood thinks that picking crops should be an inheritiable right and only the government should decide who gets to work where. Worked really well in the Soviet Union.

We don't have enough American taxpayers to cover all these benefits.

The immigrants aren't receiving benefits. They are paying their own way. The welfare frauds are pretty much all US citizens.

Deport them all this will create jobs.

No, it won't. It will destroy jobs. The crops that they pick will rot in the field this year, and be grown in other countries next year. The unemployed lawyer is not going to start picking fruit efficiently or economically. The facories that they work in will shut down and the jobs, including those of the US citizens that worked alongside the immigrants and managed the factories will be shipped overseas, as will the computer programming jobs. The US citizens who sold them groceries and clothes etc. will also suffer and many will lose their jobs as well.

Eliminating large chunks of the economy will not CREATE jobs, it will DESTROY them.

You're seeing that now.

1. seal the border.

Pass sensible immigration rules and there will be no need to spend trillions of dollars trying to do the impossible.
And since nearly half of all unauthorized immigrants overstayed a perfectly valid visa, sealing the border won't solve anything, anyway.

2. Congress(president can't pass law) needs to pass laws to create heavy penalties for people who employ illegals.

We already have stupid laws like that.

Is it any wonder so many factories are shutting down and moving to China?

Take the jobs away, most will leave on their own.

Didn't work for Hitler, and it won't work for you.

And why would anybody in their right mind want to eliminate jobs. We need to create jobs, not destroy them.

3. Create an accelerated path to citizenship for those that have been here XX(20?) years or more. Give them 1 year to register.

20 years? That's your idea of an "accelerated" program?

Why not judge each person on their own merits. If you are an upstanding member of your community, stay and be 'authorized'. If you rob and maim, go to jail.

4. Involve local law enforcement.

Because it would be a real shame if they focused on dangerous criminals, and most local communities want to increase the tax burden to pay for programs that benefit no one?

5. After that 1 year grace period, bus them back by attrition as they look for jobs, get speeding tickets, etc.

Yes, let's make it a crime to hold a job. Isn't that what God commanded Adam? Henceforth you shall never work by the sweat of your brow? Or was it the other way around? And what about our "unalienable" rights?

When people get caught speeding, let's make sure that if they are black or brown or yellow, we exile them. But if they are "Non-Hispanic Whites" (the preferred 'race' of all of the GOP candidates except Cain), we'll give them a lollipop and a pat on the head, because speeding isn't illegal if you have the right skin tone.

commonsense....

If illegal immigration was a real problem, all we'd have to do is make it a manditory year in prison and a big fine for any American hiring them and the problem is solved.

The fact we don't do that is proof it is really a scam issue.

Roy Wilson,

The King of Disinformation and dubious statistics strikes again? How many House Republicans voted for the Dream Act? Answer: EIGHT Immediately after the vote House leadership announced that when the House changed hands the law would be killed. On the Senate side the Dems had 56 votes for passage but the GOP killed it with a 56-43 to end the filibuster not meeting the recquired 60 vote threshold. Since Obama has been president the bill has been introduced in the House and Senate in many forms being considered in 2009, 2010 and 2011 and killed by the GOP in all three years. Rubios favorable unfavorable in Florida is 40 yea 31 nay 22 undecided and 7 don't know who the hell he is. He does currently give an advantage in Florida as a VP candidate but no more so than any other potential VP in their home state the swing is 5%-9% and he gets beaten if the ticket is Obama/ Clinton. Obama carried 57% of Florida Hispanics in 2008 and appears to have made a 4%-6% difference if he is on the ticket with a 3.5% margin of error and a small undecided group. How the hell does a 10% -12% swing inclusive of margin of error + all undecideds in a state whose Hispanic voters gave George Bush majorities in 2000 and 2004. Florida voters believe 49%-39% that Republicans in Congress are deliberately hindering economic recovery in order to defeat Obama in 2012.

Polling by Suffolk University Political Research Center which is in line with virtually all other polls and is most commonly used by South Florida Newspapers and TV.

jkh

So, as I read most of these posts I can see that the brainiacs here don't have any better solutions than our incompetent government.

What I do find interesting is that quite a few have random ideas that if put together in a concise plan can possibly work. This has been the problem with our immigration policy for decades. Everyone wants a 3-4-5 step policy that will magically fix everything. This obviously hasn't been possible. The more concerning part is that promises, promises are made over and over and you all believe it will actually happen.

One of the prevailing issues I see complained about here and on other blogs is the cost. This would be a credible concern if it weren't for one thing.

$15,069,794,388,941,,,and counting!

I love to hear all the deficit hawks crawl out of the woodwork when it comes to paying for the Constitutionally mandated Enumerated Powers our government is responsible for. Oddly they're always the same buffoons who in other posts will be screaming, "Keep your hands off my Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Public Education, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH”!

NONE of which are the Constitutional responsibilities of our Federal government.

Now, let's get back to that little $15 TRILLION Dollar problem I mentioned above. I'm willing to wager paycheck to paycheck that a significant portion of that massive Debt we have been accruing for decades is due to the biggest problem we have in our government.

WASTE, FRAUD AND ABUSE!

I have, over the months, been posting HUNDREDS of examples of how our criminally incompetent government wastes your hard earned tax dollars. Now, it's not bad enough that most of you prefer to just ignore this "little" problem, you actually want to give the government MORE money. Whether it's your money, a poor person's money or a billionaire's money, you have to be either delusional or totally ignorant to think our government will use more of our dollars any more efficiently. Your indoctrination is embarrassing.

In case you haven't seen the massive amounts of Waste, Fraud and Abuse in our government, let me remind you of a few.

1. The federal government made at least $72 billion in improper payments in 2008. (Do you think THIS may help secure our border and help fund some of the security needs like "Boots on the ground"?)

2. Washington spends $25 billion annually maintaining unused or vacant federal properties. (Now here's a profitable endeavor, don't you think?)

3. Government auditors spent the past five years examining all federal programs and found that 22 percent of them–costing taxpayers a total of $123 billion annually–fail to show any positive impact on the populations they serve. (This one must just chafe the a$$ of all you BIG GOVERNMENT proponents.)

4. The Congressional Budget Office published a “Budget Options” series identifying more than $100 billion in potential spending cuts.( Hmmmm, the CBO. Isn't this the office that all you deficit spendaholics point to in support of giving our government more money to waste? Kind of contradictory that we base all the spending beliefs on this office and then it turns around and comes up with $100 BILLION Dollars in cuts in the very programs they probably endorsed, don't you think?)

5. Health care fraud is estimated to cost taxpayers more than $70 billion annually. (And many of you buffoons want to give 1/6th of our GDP (Health Care) MORE reasons to waste our tax dollars. Are you all just too simple-minded to realize how corrupt our government is or is this just your ignorance exposing itself?)

And just in case you think these atrocities of our tax dollars don't continue here's a recent outrage.

6. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac spent more than $640,000 this fall to send 100 employees to a Chicago mortgage-industry conference and to host events there. (I realize this is a drop in the bucket compare to the other multi-billion dollars abuses but it shows that Waste, Fraud and Abuse is pervasive throughout our government and just continues on.)

So, for all of you that are positive we don't have the money to defend our borders, you're right. The reason though, is because our government is so out of control that it is in effect, dysfunctional.

Our Constitution demands our 18 Enumerated Powers to be enforced first. After that any other needs are to be either fiscally neutral or should be given to the States. To continue to cling to our corrupt Federal government in the hopes that it will be effective is not only illogical, it's insanity.

.

Indie

You can't name a single company or product produced by illegals in the U.S. that costs less than if it were made by a legal resident. As for the rest of your post it just goes to show the ignorance of your first post saying that these people benefiting from the illegals leaving are losers.

Do a little research and you might learn something. You don't think we subsidize the illegals and that they don't get any benefits because they are somehow too scared to come out and complain????? Truly and ridiculously ignorant. Do you realize that any law suit that has been done to benefit illegals had to be initiated by an illegal in the first place???? Are you really that dim that you actually believe the illegals are too afraid to file for benefits at the first chance.

One need look no further than the President's illegal aunt to see how ignorant your post truly is. Go read the decisions on who qualifies for mediciad in California and you will find it also covers illegals.

There was a recent report by the Pew for Hispanic Studies that reported over 350,000 births by illegals in the U.S. in one year. Do you actually think they paid $7-10 k per baby popped out?

There is an article in the New York times about how the IRS sent out over $3 billion dollars in child care credits to illegals just for last year. If they are filing for tax returns they don't sound to scared to come out of hiding now does it?

How about the illegal in New York who ran up over $1.5 million dollars in hospital bills even though he was well enough to be released. None of his family members stepped forward to claim him and when they were forced to take him they wanted to sue the hospital in an attempt to not have to take care of him.

How about the illegal in Texas that has over a million dollars in medical bills because he was injured on the job and the employer wasn't charged for workman's comp. or any liability for that matter?

How about the illegals in Georgia getting free dialysis. This is going on all over the U.S. so when you say we aren't paying for them, you are just showing exactly how narrow your mind works.

As for what you think about me and my life, again you are truly clueless. I pay more taxes off one of my businesses in a year then you probably will pay in a life time. But hey if I paid $1 that would be more than you pay in a year right? You probably have done nothing except leech off of your parents and that is why you are what you called yourself above. It is probably pretty hard to live off the allowance your Mommy and Daddy pay you for keeping your room clean and putting your dirty clothes in the laundry.

Your posts just go to show why some people would be better off not continuing their gene pool

commonsense

As I said before you are just a troll. You either invoved someway with an illegal (possibly married to one) or you need their labor to feed your existence. Either way your ideas are about as lame as they can be and your take on history....... well I'll just say your teachers and your parents failed you boy!

You say seem to imply that businesses are moving overseas because we are forcing illegals out. Please tell us the "scientific findings" behind that theory.

While you are at it tell us what the difference is by outsourcing a job to another country versus giving it to an illegal. Either way it is still outsourced.

Also please tell us how amnesty works? If you do just a little research you will find that the majority of illegals that were granted Amnesty in 1986 and those given legal status under Clinton were and are still hovering around the poverty level. All it did was add more to the support systems and call for more tax payer's money.

As for my totalitarism, I never said I was the decider did I Einstein? There are laws in place that were drafted by both parties that allow a farmer to request the correct amount of workers to come and pick his produce at the right time. The problem is you can't stand the fact that there is a legal recourse for those farmers. Instead you think this country should allow anyone in that wants to come. Economically that is impossible especially when you have liberals that are so ready to give away other people's money to support the ones that can't make it.

You don't add millions of people to a society that already has millions living in poverty. All it does is make the 'hand' waiting for a hand out that much bigger.

One last point is that you seem to think that if all the illegals were to leave it would somehow collapse our economy. Are you truly that ignorant? Do you really think 11 million illegals who for the most part are un/under educated are the support line for an economy that has the largest GDP in the world? Please tell us how making the illegals leave would somehow destroy our economy.

The reason many businesses go overseas is so they don't have to pay the taxes that many states and the fed pile on them. They also go overseas because they don't have to worry too much about the workers going on strike causing millions or even billions in losses.

You can't stand the fact that there is no need for an Amnesty and no need for the illegals that you seem to worship or rather need to make your next dollar.

Just more proof that you really have no commonsense what so ever.

I applaud the following people for adding something constructive to this conversation. Unlike some of the other idiots on this thread, you posed ideas and constructive criticism. I encourage you to stop the name calling because it reverts back to shooting spit balls. For the rest of you, you offer no value to the conversation. This is going to be a lengthy post because I want to recognize some of the ideas.

commonsense, hs321, PatIowa-2042516, Michael Lockwood, Captain Steve-375838, Kuatomonk, Bill1488, IndieParty, Pippo Schillaci

IndieParty,

But why the hell should I care about an American who is so worthless and stupid that they are only qualified for illegal immigrant work? Am I supposed to feel sorry for some pathetic moron whose only value is pulling a plant out of the ground?

While I agree that people in this situation have not taken full advantage of the opportunities American provides, we need people to do this work. I admire people that are willing to do this type of hard, manual labor as opposed to copping out and looking for a welfare check. Another thing to remember is if they are not picking crops, we don't have the produce of the shelves that we take for granted.

tonybeeerm,

Actually, it's a pretty stupid idea. Force people to serve in the military? That's a terrible and i'm sure the Joints Chiefs wouldn't accept that.

Are all the points I made stupid? The reasoning behind that was to give these people the training so they add more value to our society. If you don't like the military idea, what are your ideas? Giving these people citizenship just to jump on the welfare train doesn't help anyone, especially the American taxpayer.

How about we prosecute and fine the people that hire these illegals.

I agree that businesses should be held liable for hiring illegal immigrants. However, we need to fine them at a level that makes the fines more detrimental to their profits than hiring illegals. As long as it is more cost-effective to hire illegals, they will continue to do it.

Commonsense,

The politicians want only PhDs to enter the country, but our factories want laborers...

I think you are correct. The number of laborers in this country greatly exceeds the number of highly skilled people, and laborers do the jobs that make the standard living we take for granted possible.

PatIowa,

This is sooo simple! Tax them! That's right! Have a "blue card", with the blue card you can live in the U.S. indefinitely, but NEVER be able to apply for citizenship. If you are currently in the country illegally, you must pay a $5,000 fine in addition to paying a blue card "tax" each year of $2,000.

You are correct in that we absolutely need to tax them. Living in America does not mean that you get a free ride, and none of the people that pay taxes has one. However, everyone should have the ability to go through the proper channels to achieve citizenship. As for the 'blue card', no politician will present that idea because it will imply he is trying to create a group of 'second-class citizens', and they will not risk losing an election.

There is plenty more I would like to write, but everyone is probably tired of reading.

Boy, you can tell this isn't FR here!

Boy, you can tell this isn't FR here!

Right? lol

Hey! If you click on Front Page, we can start all over on the FR blog from early this morning. Cool.

At any given time there can be as many as 9 million people in the US on temporary work visas plus 5 million for other reasons giving us 14 million legal noncitizens on our soil. Now add the 12 to 18 million illegals here giving us about 30 million visitors, legal and illegal.

So what, if anything, do these legal visitors provide and what is the real difference between a legal visitor and an illegal intruder – other than the "illegal intruder" part?

The 5 million that are here for other reasons include mostly students and vacationers. Both provide a source of income for business and government.

The 9 million on Temporary Work Visas and most of the 12+ million illegal intruders pay taxes but collect few of the benefits. They pay payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare and cannot ever collect either benefit. They, thru property they own or rent, pay property tax that supports local schools. They pay State and Local income taxes plus Sales taxes that supports many programs that they generally cannot make use of.

Many illegals use fake ID’s and stolen SS numbers to obtain employment. When they do they pay taxes. There are many that work for daily cash payments known as “under the table” or “off the books” and both the employee and employer evade paying taxes but don’t forget that millions of ‘Real Americans’ do the same.

illegal intruders pay taxes but collect few of the benefits. They pay payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare and cannot ever collect either benefit. They, thru property they own or rent, pay property tax that supports local schools. They pay State and Local income taxes plus Sales taxes that supports many programs that they generally cannot make use of.

Absolutly incorrect: Many work cash jobs so there are no taxes while they still send their kids to our schools and get free health care at the hospital. They can't own so they do not pay property taxes.

So you didn't bother to read the entire comment.

If they rent they pay property taxes as part of their rent - and yes anyone one can buy property in the US. Just like our rich citizens buy property in other countries.

The 'thorny issues' for Republicans are their horny issues ...

Here's an idea - welcome the Mexicans - deport the politicians ...

I would rather have illegal and moral immigrants than legal and immoral politicians ...

How much do migrant workers get paid for picking pizza vegetables?

@ Dennis, Columbus, Ohio YOU'RE COMPLETELY RIGHT!!!!

Not so much of a political problem as you think. Play it the Obama way. Tell people whatever they want to hear to get their votes, THEN, once they have elected you, do whatever you want. Simple Democratic formula.

Works for Obama.

Dennis, they may be able to buy, but they cannot finance with out a green card. Ok, I guess they can forge that, too. End line, what part of illegal don't you understand? Undocumented workers my foot. With that analogy, I guess the corner drug dealer is an unlicensed pharmasist.

Joseph,

Same as Romney or Newt........................

I like Nerm's idea - keep the immigrants, deport the politicians... but who'd take them??

Seems like other countries have enough of similar losers, as the EU may fall apart.

if Mickey Mouse and dead people can vote, then so could illegals!

To the FR libs like fiesty and phancy, this site is hardly oriented to the right wing, but we can definitely agree that that FR is oriented towards the far left.

I wonder if the monitors here will enforce newsvine CofH. They sure do ignore it on FR.

While the headline indicates the right being tripped up on immigration, I sure wouldn't want to be a democrat trying to say they have done better.

The whole GOP is a trip! Tripping over one another by either playing "poor johnny one note" (aka: "Obama Bad!") to attempting to add "flip-flopping" as an Olympic sport in 2012!

The blind are leading the blind over a cliff on immigration in every camp here. They know not what they want with this or any other issue except to "Make Obama a one-term president." Finding no logical path to victory in 2012 with anyone they "like", the GOP/T-people are floundering for anyone to salivate about but no one matches their hateful view of 'their' country.

Our Hispanic-American population can see the duplicitous nature of the ploy to gain their support and will not be fooled; they are too smart for the GOP line.

Joe vs. Jose

You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal".
Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California.
Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and
makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.
Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security
Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table."

Ready? Now pay attention.
Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or
$52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe
Legal now has $31,231.00.

Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or
$31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal still
has $31,200.00.
Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for
his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now
has $24,031.00.

Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state
and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has
$31,200.00.
Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or
welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per
year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps
and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.
Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year.
Joe Legal now has $9,631.00.

Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose
Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose
Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for insurance. Joe
Legal now has $7,231.00.

Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still
has $31,200.00.
Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc.

Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities,
gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month.

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.
Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.
Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school.
Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's
children get a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children
have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.
Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire
services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.
>
> Do you get it, now?
>
> If you vote for or support ANY politician that supports illegal
> aliens, YOU are part of the problem!
>
> It's way PAST time to take a stand for America and Americans!

P.S. Some are also working with a social security number that does not belong to them and the poor unsuspecting person who's number they've been using has to prove they did not earn that money, it's sad.

P.SS. It's not the employers fault either. WELFARE is the big draw for the illegals to be here. Don't give them assistance in the 1st place and they won't come.

The remedy is ridiculously simple. In most countries ONLY citizens can vote in federal elections, AND to get on the electoral rolls (voters' lists) a declaration of citizenship is required and PROOF can be demanded.

If existing laws were enforced no candidate would have to worry about how eleven million undocumented aliens might vote.

Sandra,

Millions of US citizens work “off the books” aka “independent contractors” also and receive even more free government benefits … what say you about them?

Orb:

The politicians would still worry about their legal friends and relatives.

"GIVEITAREST"--your a moran!!

Dennis, the subject here is illegal aliens, not Americans abusing "the system".

I don't approve of Americans or illegal aliens abusing the system.

hs321,

It appears you jumped in w/o reading all the comments.

Go back and read my comments at 2.5 and 2.7 and it will be clear that I fully understand the topic.

BTW who made you the moderator ?????????????????

sarah-3519311

And fair enough; the votes of all citizens must count equally, no matter how their citizenship was obtained.

That said, I have a suspicion that many of those who have gone though the immigration process (Green Card) are not dreadfully sympathetic toward those who have deliberately chosen the undocumented alien route.

I love that immigration has now become such a big issue while Bush did nothing about it. But, now the far right is incensed! I think that pretty much says it all.

This discussion of how "easy" it would be to solve the immigration problem is, at best, simplistic and so far from reality its ridiculous.

1. How do you identify all of the illegal aliens? Current estimates have at lease a 1-2 million person range.

2. Say you can identify all of the illegal aliens. How are we going to pay for their deportation?

3. Say you can identify all of the illegal aliens. How many countries did they come from (Its not just Hispanics who are here illegally) and would we really send them back to, say, North Korea?

4. Say you can identify all of the illegal aliens. What if the family consists of mom, dad, and 2-month old twins. If the twins were born in the US, then constitutionally, they are US citizens. Section 1 of the 14th amendment is very straight forward about this. Would we deport mom and dad? Would we deport the twin US citizens? If we deport mom and dad, who takes care of the twins?

5. Say you can identify all of the illegal aliens. What if the family consists of mom, dad, and two kids. What if mom has a green card and dad's green card has expired. What do you do about that?

6. Say you can identify all of the illegal aliens. I assume with 9-11 million people, somebody is going to be willing to fight the deportation in court. Say 1 in 20 would be willing to do that. This means that 450,000 to 550,000 deportation cases would wind up in court. If nothing else, it would bring full employment to our legal system.

7. Another answer suggested is to fine any employer who uses illegal immigrants. Again, we have an identity crisis. I doubt that employers will be lining up to confess that they use illegal aliens.

Solving the immigration problem is NOT easy. Newt got hammered because he had the audacity to suggest that if an immigrant family had been here for 25 years, with children and grandchildren, otherwise law abiding, they should be allowed to stay. Personally, I can't stand Newt, but his suggestion has more merit than "throw them all out!"

Joe King

Nothing is simple but the hard truth is Amnesty does not work. It only causes more people to jump the lines of those trying to come here legally, thinking they will be able to stay for the next big amnesty in 10-15 years.

As for fighting deportations, that is already happening because lawyers see a chance to make an extra dollar off the tax payers. Take away most of the descretion that immigration judges have and the problem is unblocked.

As for the children born in the U.S. scenario, first the illegals broke the laws by coming here illegally or overstayed their Visas. They knew from the start that they should not expect to gain from breaking the laws of any country. If the parents are deported then kids go with, unless the parents do not want them. If this is the case then put the children in foster care and or adoption. Cold but it will stop illegals from thinking they will gain anything by coming here and popping out kids.

Mom has green card but Dad's expired. First find out why his expired did he come here on a student visa and then decide to get married thinking this would suffice? If so then deport because he knew when he got his visa that it was not meant for him to stay indefinitely. If it was a permanent green card and it expired (they still have to be updated periodically) then all they need do is contact their embassy and get it taken care of.

7. As for employers of illegals if e-verify was enhanced and made the law in every state and the IRS was compelled by law to report all NO-MATCH incidents as soon as they are noted that would not be a problem. Especially if the audit system was in full play. Look at Walmart and the Millions they were fined, look at the clothing manufacturer that had illegals and the money they had to fork over. Look at Chipolte Restaurant and the hundreds of illegals they sent packing when they found out they were about to be audited.

I won't comment on your mistake about a 1-2 million illegals range in your first point because you seemed to correct yourself later in the post.

There is no easy answer, but does making all the illegals legal sound very effective? So what besides amnesty does the President want? I will leave you with this a person that has been here illegally for 25 years is a person that missed out on the Reagan- Democrats Amnesty. A person hanging on for his or her next big chance due to non-enforcement of the laws already on the books.

Dennis, Columbus.

You claim they can't get the social security benefits but they get it back in other ways. They get it through medicaid, and thru, education of their kids. They get it back through WIC, SNAP, and other benefits for dropping as many children as they can. They also get it back through filing tax returns!

As for legal U.S. residents working under the table. This is very true. However if the current audit system the Fed currently used also included looking at businesses records to look for those under the table workers, legal and illegal, then that would stop much of that too.

One question I would ask is do you actually think that an illegal paying rent is paying enough in property tax to pay for the education of their children? The normal legal resident doesn't pay what it costs to educate their kids and rely on all in the community to pay the same property taxes to fund those schools.

In other words everybody, children or not have to pay the taxes to fund the schools so why should a couple that never had kids or a couple whose kids are long out of school need to pay to educate kids, who along with their parents shouldn't be here in the first place?

Think about this a family of illegals that are getting WIC and SNAP for their U.S. born children pay no taxes on that food regardless if the state taxes food or not. The mother popping those kids out is covered for prenatal as well as post natal care and the expense of having the kids under the medicaid system. The medicaid system also pays for emergency care of illegals and what is not covered has to be sucked up by the hospitals or passed on in higher payments by those legal residents that have the means to pay.

Regardless how you look at it we the legal resident tax payers are the ones footing the bill to subsidize businesses that hire illegals as well as subsidizing the illegals themselves.

For all of you that are FOR illegals to stay and that they are helping America - Look at the state of California (um little Mexico as it is called by the hispanics) and tell how us that state is doing. An article that was just published today has them ranked 50th, that is right 50th out of 50 states...

Want them to self deport??

Simple. Lets get the e-verify system up and working. No card?? No work. No card? No school. No card? No vote. No card? No driver's license. Etc. Etc.

somebody

Ranked 50^th in what?

Two states with the largest population of Hispanics (CA & TX) rank 1 and 2 respectively in total economy of the 50 states. In fact if CA were a country they would have the 8^th largest economy in the world.

Dennis - sorry article was not published today as stated but it is on the best run states here is the link -

the article may be a year old, but not much has changed since then.

for your largest economy comment, does that take into consideration the amount of funds the state uses to subsidize the population - welfare, food stamps, free or discounted school lunches, health care, etc...

somebody

That doesn’t surprise me. It started when they changed the State law to require a two-thirds majority for passage of budgets.

This is a similar thing that some legislators in DC have proposed for Federal budget increases. 60 votes are needed in the Senate for cloture and see how well that is working. Now imagine it taking 67 yea votes
for passage.

Every one of those candidaes is a hypocrite who changed their position 180 degress (Bachman excluded) once Richard Tanton started writing the talking points on immigration for the GOP.

the hard truth is Amnesty does not work

Actually, the undeniable truth is that 'amnesty' DOES work.

We have not had a repeat of the Civil War, even though amnesty was granted to millions of traitors guilty of treason, sedition, and aiding and abetting. And that was REAL amnesty.

As to immigration, NO ONE ever complains about the actions of the people who became citizens as a rwesult of Reagan's 'amnesty'. Not even the most mean-spirited bigots on NEwsvine complains about the new citizens. That's PROOF that 'amnesty' was teh right thing to do. We have lots of new hard working, tax-paying, patriotic Americans – doctors, lawyers, engineers, scientists, teachers, business owners – as a result. The only problem is that it didn't extend to everyone, just some.

What failed MISERABLY was the idiotic attempt at dysfunctional, rabid, enforcement-only approach to stemming future unauthorized immigration. Anti-Catholic, anti-Latino, anti-Philipino, anti-Indian quotas were imposed (based on 'regional' origin in order to allow violation of the Constitutional ban on discrimination based on 'national' origin), quotas of various skill levels were mandated (as thugh idiot politicians in 1986 somehow magicially knew how many people of various skill levels would be needed 25 or 30 years down the road), and worst of all, we made it a CRIME to work and pay taxes for the first time in our nation's history. How stupid is that?

commonsense

Do you have any clue why some illegals claim to have been here for the last 25 years? The fact is the last Amnesty was a sham and as soon as status was granted there was no enforcement to drive the illegals that did not qualify out of the country as the law was supposed to do.

Instead of keeping the newly granted legal status immigrants (former illegals) they again kept up the practice of hiring more and more illegals to keep their overall costs low and their profits high. They do not pass those savings on to the consumer like most of you 'hug an illegal' advocates claim.

As for your Civil War history, again your version of history is pretty twisted but then what would one expect from a troll, right? You have no answers and no facts. Just your bias towards mainly the hispanic illegals. I would bet if millions of white europeans were trying to get in illegally you would be screaming bloody murder based off of your racist tones against those people.

We never made it a crime to work and pay taxes as your ignorant rant implies. It is and has been a crime to come here illegally though.

Simply, GOP is fighting a common sense rational by tripping over brash and unattainable irrational ideological posture.

You do have to wonder, Say, how people who are deserting Cain over his inability to be faithful to his wife can tolerate Newtoid who is a serial adulterer.

Oh, wait, I forgot! God told him it was just fine.

...maybe Callista has neutered the Newt!

But then again, there is something 'strange' about her...anybody ever see any real close-ups of Callista?

But then again, there is something 'strange' about her...anybody ever see any real close-ups of Callista?

Hearsay is that she's one of the original Stepford Wives. . . .

That's some messed up information. Only if the media was willing to dig into someone else's background. I think people would have a different view in 2008. Do you have anything current that isn't 20-40 years old?

Callista Bisek grew up in Whitehall WI. So a a young Midwest woman goes to DC and has an affair with Speaker of the House while a congressional aide. Now she is wife #3 to the old guy.

Reality T.V. is the script for Gingrich, Cain,... Perry.

By the way, what happened to Rick Perry? I have been vacation for a week.

I strongly suspect that absolutely none of your mindless gibberish is even partially true. Snopes has disproven much of your made up garbage. Check it out.

Northstar: who cares? Clinton lowered the bar so much with this type of behavior, that one has to dig underground even to find that bar.

Hey moronic left, you can say the same about the IDIOT democrap party also and the list is just as long for them also. Left will always be about STUPIDITY because they DO NOT KNOW any better but think they have something intelligent to say. MSNBC comment sites are the best for the practicing moronic left.

JFK2112 is gay. There are people who will vouch for this.

JFK2112 was convicted of shoplifting . There is a police record to prove this.

JFK2112 had to do the 3rd grade twice. School records show this

JFK2112 is really the anti-christ. There is plenty of evidence .

JFK2112 has been on welfare for over four years now. State records confirm this.

Hey JFK2112 see how easy this is.

Northstar, Perry has been hanging out in the gaffe's R us department. Ooops.

As for Obama as far as I know both Kansas, the state his mother is from, and Hawaii, the state his birth certificate is from are part of the United States so who cares.His fathers nationality is not important as long as one parent is a US citizen. I as a Texan support Rick Perry's stance on tuition for children of long time residents of Texas who are illegal this decision is ours to make under the X Amendment to the constitution. As for residents of other states who complain go to your state universities those are the ones your parents pay taxes for. The tea partiers who want to keep the feds out of state government should honor the tenth amendment which restricts federal intrusion into affairs of the states by staying out of ours.

Old Latin Teacher,

"who cares?"

I do and many other women voters!!!

Newt is the biggest pile of garbage, lies, filth, sewage, hypocrisy, excrement, dishonesty, dirt, muck, smut, trash, immorality, debris, manure, pretense, corruption, debauchery and all around depravity to ever seek the office of president.

Republicans have lost, simply because your candidates do not have the courage to tell the tea party crazies that their extremism in the U.S. will not work and will not win an election. So come election time Obama will have no problem finding footage of the Republican nominee saying something or supporting something so extreme that the the rest of America will cringe.

Say it isn't so

Newt Gingrich's Skeleton Closet

There's more, Say it isn't so

10 Things Newt Gingrich Doesn't Want You To Know About Him

This one sticks out the most:

GINGRICH SAID WE SHOULD ALLOW SOME TERRORIST ATTACKS TO REMIND US OF THE DANGER:

During a book tour, Gingrich told an audience in a speech that was televised on C-SPAN that the Bush administration had been very successful at intercepting terrorists, but had not gotten credit for it, explaining that maybe we should've "allowed an attack to get through to remind" Americans about the danger of terrorism.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/03/03/147466/newt-gingrich-10-things/

==================================================================
Beady eyed Newt is a sociopath.

Hey SIIS...

You want to talk adultery... talk JFK! That dude was a PLAYER! Yet, one of the greatest presidents ever (if you love the liberal types).

Let's imagine for just a moment that good old JFK was running for president in today's environment... Does anyone think that he would even make it out of the starting blocks with all the skeletons in his (and his family's) closets? NO WAY!

So... if you all believe that a man with the questionable moral and ethical standards of JFK could be one of the greatest presidents ever... why would you hold anyone else to a higher standard?

(show me the clown nose, fisty!)

Speaking of adulterers, what's John Edwards up to these days?

All your yaya about Newt is just that.... Irrelevant yaya! What does any of these preceived issues that are unsubstantiated in most cases have to do with having the intelligence and the innovative solutions in all areas needed to be President. All this garbage about Newt's past relationships means absolutely nothing in the grand picture of what is needed for our next leader and for fixing our Government and our economy. Heck, attack his ideas or positons, but give up all the innuendo about his sex life! It did not matter for Clinton or JFK and it should have no relevance now!

Obama came to the Presidency without being even a proven legislator and had zero business experience and look what we got ... someone who only knows how to campaign and can read a teleprompter and does not have a clue how to run the country other than into the ground led by the Democratic buffoons in the House and Senate. When the Country elected Jimmy Carter, all they wanted was someone a year of hostages in Iran. When Obama got elected, the country wanted the anti-Bush, and Obama seemed to provide that option... but he has been proven to be an empty suit! When are all the liberals in this country going to learn! All the irrelevant comments on this blog are sad ... very sad!

Northstar: I didn't lower the bar--the left did in its support for Pres. Clinton. Chickens do come home to roost.

Fed up Senior,

How about the fact that Newt was chased out of the House for corruption and had to pay $300K in fines? You think that's "irrelevant"? Or "unsubstantiated"?

Do you really want someone with that background, who then went on to a career on K Street selling influence, to be the next President? Don't you find that in the least disturbing?

I'm sorry, but JFK2112 has left our reality at the moment. Please leave a message and he'll get back to you after he's taken his meds...

Now, I wasn't sure the meds needed to be upped or reduced.

Hey Jack it's working for Obama.

Wow... JFK212... You didn't drink the kool-aid, you made it!

as usual bev you are trying to spin the wrong meaning into someones comment. At least this time you did include more of the context from which your "supposed" point was taken.

Remember words do have meaning bev. Please take a class to improve your reading comprehension and stay away from having the op ed website "thinkprogressive" do your thinking.

John-3353456,

Hey Jack it's working for Obama.

??? Am I supposed to guess what you're referring to?

jfk 212 - thanks for the chuckles, while I am not planning on doing an internet search on all that you suggest I like how you have stirred up the FR libs.

I imagine that if you provided specific links, their reactions would still be the same. After all, very few of them provide any type of credable links.

Sorry boys and girls, links to far off center op ed pieces and web sites just really don't carry much weight.

Hey all you Clinton Supporters who are now trying to smear Cain and poor ole Newt. Do you think Clinton saved that famous Lewinski cigar, or did he smoke it?

After that he was elected to a second term. So after that there is nothing you can say to me that will convince me you really care about anything other whether or not a person is a democrat or a republican. That is the only thing that matters to you liberals. Lets be honest here.

In only posted that nonsense because of the nonsense SAY IT AINT SO posted. Lighten up.

Boyd - Basic Republican Hypocracy 101 - Republilcans, led by The Newtster, moved to impleach Clinton for doing what he himself, that is the Newster, was doing at the same time. Republican hypocracy knows no boundaries, it is in-your-face and unapologetic, with a shrug of the shoulders and an "oh well". WTF? The private life of our elected officials was not considered something to be aired for the public to salivate over. Roosevelt (FDR) frequently appeared in public with his "assistant" and everyone knew who she really was (his mistress) but no one cared. Same with JFK, people knew, no one thought it an issue. Saint Regan was married twice, but now Republicans are all up in everyone's bidness and bedrooms, except in their own "house". It's not the infidelity, it is the HYPOCRACY!

Kingofall - totally irrelevant. He's not running for anything.

In the four states along the border try most of the hispanics are native born citizens of the US. I live in the Rio Grande valley where probably 75% of the people are hispanic. And at least 80% of those are tejanos, native born Texans of hispanic descent. There was a large group of Tejanos who fought for Texas independence at both San Jacinto and at the Alamo. Their descendants deserve our respect as citizens of our state and our country. When you quit looking at everybody with a spanish surname as here illegally you will have a different viewpoint.

lonereb, are you talking to me or do you mean the GOP? If it's me, totally barking up the wrong tree. My last name is a Spanish surname. Mi esposo is letting me use it just until Eva Longoria accepts his marriage proposal. :)

What color is the sky?

Gingrich: "I wrote a book about the sky that you can get for the low, low price of $24.95 on my website."

Cain: "Whatever the Koch brothers tell me it is... What? Oh, 9-9-9."

Perry: "Anything but black."

Paul: "GOLD."

Romney: "What color does it have to be for you to vote for me?"

Bachmann: "Jesus."

You forgot one

Obama: The sky is falling due to global warming, send me all your money, let me hire several hundred thousand more federal bureaucrats and we will hold the sky up and save all of you, honest we will.

Of course they are so dumb. we really don't have $15+ trillion in federal debt, our current politicians recognize that we have a spending problem and can come together and agree easily on how to stop the spending and reduce the debt, Obamacare doesn't really add more patients without adding more doctors to treat them and of course it wasn't really about increasing the power and scope of federal government, it was about giving people healthcare who didn't have any which is why everyone had heallthcare immediately after the bill was passed. YUP, us tea party people are pretty dumb.

Boyd - actually you are - in every respect.

Not hard at all for the GOP to reconcile...."We hate! You vote for us."

That's why he's been deporting them in record numbers, I suppose...

madison: um, barbie, I'm going to take a really wild guess here and say you've never come within a quarter mile of hard work and wouldn't know it if it bit ya....

"Obama favors illegal immigrants over hard working citizens"

Total BS. President Obama has deported more illegal immigrants in 2 years than Bush did in 8 years. Over 80% of the illegal immigrants currently in this nation entered during the 8 years Bush occupied the White House.

Madison - Where have you been hiding???

1. Gingrich has had illegal's working for him for years.
2. Perry supported in state tuition at Texas Colleges for Illegal immigrants
3. Obama is pushing to have the 'most dangerous" illegals processed first for deportation

Obama does NOT favor illegal immigrants over the hard working citizens. If he did, why is he pushing to get AMERICAN's jobs, while the republicans sit in congress.. whine and do NOTHING. *see other's comments ahead of mine*

Lastly, you are just as bad as Bachman from Minnesota. You know nothing about the facts, go out on a whim, and try to get someone to believe you are right. Please find a local community college and take a basic course in American Government.

Madison From NY

It's been immigration, and how to handle the millions of undocumented immigrants who reside in the U.S. illegally, that has tripped up Republican presidential candidates seeking their party's nomination.

Nonsense. Obama favors illegal immigrants over hard working citizens and sues any state that dares disagree. Why will hard working citizens vote for him? The democrats have "abandoned" white working class voters after all.

If I see or hear anyone say "hard working" again I'm going to loose the hounds of hell on them. That's got to be the most overused right wing term ever...it's equivalent to a Marxist saying "Bourgeois" and just as annoyingly unthinking.

Of course, unthinking does perfectly descrbe your entire post.

Toasty...please give the 'deporting in record numbers' crap a rest will you.

If you add all the deportations that have occurred under Obama to those done under Bush, they don't add up to a hill of beans. The few deportations that take place is for show my friend, all smoke and mirrors.

Anyone who believes otherwise, I have some really cheap water front property to sell you.

Outrageous, unsupportable slander from the right, meet angry, ad hominem attack from the left...Political discourse at it's finest!...

The cartoonish caricatures of the opposition that constitute many of the opinions expressed here seem to indicate a deeper underlying need to lash out at someone, anyone to vent pent up feelings of helplessness and frustration in their daily and or political lives.

Assigning blame is for losers. Adults find common ground, common self-interest and are results oriented. Griping, finger pointing and demonizing the opposition is political masturbation, the teenagers' philosophical lament that "If EVERYONE thought like ME the world would be a better place"...

If there is a path to a better, more equitable economic and political future, it isn't being taken by many in our hyper-polarized body-politic, the collective media and/or the most prolific posters on this blog. Imagine the country as a two-person kayak, going in an endless circle because the two idiots in the boat can't seem to row TOGETHER, so neither one ever gets ANYWHERE...

Fire away!

If you add all the deportations that have occurred under Obama to those done under Bush, they don't add up to a hill of beans. The few deportations that take place is for show my friend, all smoke and mirrors.

Anyone who believes otherwise, I have some really cheap water front property to sell you.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Speaking about the current administrations rapid deportation of more than 1.2 million people since President Obama entered office the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) says:

“These record-breaking deportation numbers come at a time when illegal immigration rates have plummeted, the undocumented population has decreased substantially and violent crime rates are at their lowest levels in 40 years. Our country can no longer afford to pay for uncontrolled, unwarranted DHS spending at the cost to U.S. taxpayers.”

Do you agree with the ACLU that the Obama administration has overstepped their bounds when deporting illegal immigrants or should the administration be doing more to ensure immigrants come into and remain in our country legally?

http://www.inquisitr.com/152064/criminal-deportation-2011/

http://investigativereportingworkshop.org/investigations/immigration-detention/story/graphic-migrant-returns-nationality/

Where's that property?

Umm... Madison did you actually read the article? I did, and that is not what I got out of it at all. First off it is talking strictly about targeting voters in an election, not abandoning any groups best interests as President but simply where focus should be placed in obtaining reelection. it is no different than the Republicans pandering to the less educated "working class" as you put it (although the article said specifically whites with a high school diploma or less- no college education). This has been there strategy for years, to use half truths and outright lies to trick a less educated portion of the populous into voting republican even though it is usually against their best interest by pretending to be the party of Christian values.

See wealthy republicans know that their main policies on political and fiscal issues would never win a national election so they focus on hot button social issues that are easy for less educated people to understand such as abortion, guns and illegals. So while they lower taxes for the rich and raise taxes on the middle class while distroying things like the social safety net and educational spending, under-educated whites keep voting for them with a smile because they can't comprehend whats really happening.

Madison - what an insane, ridiculous post. President Obama has deported more illegals in the last year than Bush in his entire Presidency. You really are uninformed. Oh wait - you're a Republican. Now I understand. HS321 - totally applies to you too.

Madison you are correct. The other posters replying to your comments are idiots. Obama wants to get rid of the criminals so it looks like he is doing something but in wants to give amnesty to all the rest. This is not okay with me. It should not be okay with any American citizen.

ItsAboutTime-3704531. Government does not create jobs. Obama does not create jobs. Businesses create jobs.

Goin....LOL!! I'm an independent. And exactly how does putting Bush in the same category with Obama make me a Republican? Republicans and Democrats alike are responsible for the mess we have today...go back several decades...including Ted Kennedy and Ronald Reagan.

Angry Mad - Really? Obama doesn't create jobs? I guess he doesn't actually hold interviews with people and hire them to clean the white house pool does he? However, to day that he doesn't create jobs, is lusciousness. The last time I checked, businesses are supposed to operate in accordance with the laws of the United States. who is president?

W. Goin

Actually it seems you are the one misinformed. The Obama administration over the last three years combined are almost at the total deportations that Bush had during his 8 years as President. However the reson Obama can deport more is because of the Agents pushed for and authorized and money made available during the Bush Administration.

It's About Time

Do you really think the President takes time out to do job interviews for a pool boy?

considering more illegals have been deported under Obama then by the last two Presidents combined, I can see why you keep peddling that lie so hard. Oh don't you wish you had "anyone" instead of "noone"...better change that to 2017.

AP...see 9.6 above.

Please. Enough. Discuss something substantial.

Like this

http://www.tnr.com/article/the-vital-center/97938/obama-demographics-2012-latinos

I, personally, don't think the immigration issue "hurts" either side- but I DO think no one is interested in a pragmatic solution.

I'll give just one example- the Dream Act. The sticking point was not the military service aspect, but the college aspect.

So, cut that out. Leave the military service aspect as a path to citizenship.

Voila! A solution all can agree on!

Wonder why no politician ever thinks about that. . .

Obama tried to get things going on illegal immigration last year, but Lindsey Graham backed out and no repubs are interested in starting a discussion now. What bills have been introduce by the House? What bills have been introduced by the Senate? They are more interested in anti-abortion and anti-gay legislation than immigration.

The onus is on congress. Obama has suggested a course of action and made an appeal to get something going. And what do we hear from congress? Crickets.

Dems introduced a bill in 2010. What have the repubs done? Nothing - except criticize from the sidelines and attempt to deflect their inaction at the president. They should DO THEIR JOB. Just like the super committee should have done theirs. Do nothing and blame everyone else for their laziness. I thought the repubs were all about responsibility. Own up to your gutless inaction.

HS231 - You owe a lot of people property! Obama has, in fact, overseen the deportation of illegal immigrants at a higher rate than Bush. You don't have to like it, but it is true. You can look at any LEGITIMATE news source to find that information. I am reminded of the recent study showing that people who watch no news media outlet at all have a better grasp of the facts of international events than those who list Fox News as their primary source (specifically knowing that the Egyptians had overthrown their dictator and the Syrians had not, among other things). Too busy yelling and screaming and scaring the $^!? out of people to bother with any actual information. Ranting and raving doesn't change reality, as much as you may like it to. Facts are facts. More people have been deported from the US in two years of Obama than were in eight years of Bush. End of story.

AP-1414066

Re: 10.1

If your statement were true, you wouldn't be commenting on this site; unless, of course you're posting from Mexico or just haven't been caught yet. Using your own words "come on!! Produce those papers!!"

Science....LOL dude! I get all my news off the internet from a variety of liberal, moderate and conservative websites (which does inlcude the Huffpo, but not Fox).

"Facts are facts." Indeed they are my friend. And the fact I posted in 9.6 stands on it's own.

(P.S. Toasty and I occasionally go back and forth on issues. I actually agree with some things he posts.)

hs321 - then you should clearly learn to read then understand what you've read. You posted no fact in 9.6 - just lies. The facts are that Obama has deported more illegals than Bush did in his entire term. Those are facts.

This is what I said in 9.6:

If you add all the deportations that have occurred under Obama to those done under Bush, they don't add up to a hill of beans. The few deportations that take place is for show my friend, all smoke and mirrors.

It does not any way, fashion or form deny the fact that Obama has deported more illegals than Bush. But this is the cold, hard truth/fact some just can't deal with: ... all the deportations that have occurred ... don't add up to a hill of beans. The few deportations that take place is for show my friend, all smoke and mirrors.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I suppose the fact that Obama has deported more illegal immigrants than the past two presidents combined just escaped you? I guess its clear they don't mention that statistic much on Fox news...

Anyone who believes the GOP will solve the problem of illegal immigration is living in a dream world. If the GOP wins the White House in '12...big business will REALLY apply the pressure to keep things the way they are. There's absolutely NO WAY big business will give up their cheap throwaway labor.

Once again...so-called "conservatives" have been sold a bill of goods by their real masters. Enjoy your deluded fantasies, fools.

..sure, try telling that to the LEGAL immigrants fleeing Arkansas and Arizona because they don't want to be rounded up for driving while brown..and their children harrassed because they dare to attend school while brown. Old School...you better find a new language.

AP... you are an idiot. (sorry... but it's true)

AP: YOU should have taken Latin--it disciplines the mind and enables one to learn languages quite easily (I am very functional in six of them) As it is you might want to think more thoroughly about the content of the English you are writing. Your post actually supports my point: The reason why LEGAL immigrants experience any such problems lies in the fact that ILLEGAL immigration is out of control. The implied accusation of racism in the latter part of your post is simply puerile and pathetic. Take off the ideological blinders. Tunnelvision limits original thinking.

Old School..."...The reason why LEGAL immigrants experience any such problems lies in the fact that ILLEGAL immigration is out of control."

What are you doing? Are you trying to give some liberal a heart attack or cause an aneurysm? That is exactly what might happen when you try and use concrete logic. Lighten already will you...

The reason why LEGAL immigrants experience any such problems lies in the fact that ILLEGAL immigration is out of control.

That's an opined assertion, not an example of logic. If AP was inferring a nativist bias to the Alabama and Arizona legislation which led to a legal immigrant exodus he/she is correct.

hs321 - how would you know? You've never used logic or facts in your life! But you are a typical Republican.

FACT: I am an independent and am incredibly disappointed with both Republicans and Democrats on issues dealing with illegal aliens.

Never really looked at that way MMC, but allowing them to stay here with no penalties for breaking the law, violating U.S. sovereignty, is a defacto amnesty.

They also skip the fact that Obama has NO Immigration policy and has done Nothing to Secure our borders. When our citizens on the border are threatened, Obama ignores the threat.

clark - what a crock! President Obama is doing a great deal about illegal immigration. And, I find it humorous that all of you Republicans had no problem when Bush did absolutely nothing.

I am a "self-appointed" spokesperson for the millions of Native Americans against "Illegal White Immigrants".

DEPORT THEM ALL; NOW!

LOL!! Start with Mal'achi!! (come on!! Produce those papers!!)

And just how with the budget problems the country has now are you going to find all 11 million? In my neighborhood ask 100 people with spanish surnames where they were born and 80 out of a hundred will say right here and be telling the truth since their families were here before Texas independence. More than half the people from Brownsville to El Paso and as far north as San Antonio are of hispanic descent.

Capn,
No there is not a pathway for those that entered the country illegaly. See my post below. The paths that exist are extreme, are only benefiting lawyers, and have nothing to do with the details of anyones specific case.

I like Newts plan on immigration. It makes sense. And Dem in TX...We have had LEGAL immigration in this Country for 200+ years...It works for the folks trying to get here LEGALLY. If you broke our laws to get here, then you will have to play by our rules to work here.. Has anyone looked at Mexicos immigration laws....If we are so out of touch with humanity then let's just adopt the same immigration policy as Mexico.....that should solve this problem....Why aren't liberals giving Mexico any grief concerning their immigration laws....I thought they were the self appointed fairness party

No there is not a pathway for those that entered the country illegaly. See my post below. The paths that exist are extreme, are only benefiting lawyers, and have nothing to do with the details of anyones specific case.

Uh... yeah there is a legal path. Ask the thousands who do it every year. They followed the rules, they filled out all the paper work, took all the tests, made the EFFORT to become a US Citizen the right way and I welcome them. My grandmother did it. I have a sister in law who came in the country the legal way also. She's not rich, not even close. Her family isn't rich, far from it. My brother is an enlisted in the US Navy. Hardly a high paying job. You don't have to be a lawyer, rich, or powerful to get in this country legally. You just have to posses the will and desire to see it through to the end.

No path to legal citizenship? Please explain that to the millions of legal immigrants who have come to this country and obtained citizenship. Try and explain that to these guys:

Legal Immigrants Against the DREAM Act

(http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2011/11/29/legal_immigrants_against_the_dream_act)

The 62-year-old Wheaton barber had earned a law degree in his native Thailand and waited eight years for a visa so he could move to the United States and begin a new life.
When he heard this year about the Maryland Dream Act, which would grant in-state college tuition discounts to illegal immigrants, he was outraged.
“I did the full legal process,” Anuchit Washirapunya, who is deaf and cannot speak English, wrote on a notepad as he hunched in his barber’s chair. “The illegal students have no right to work or stay here.”

One Marylander who clicked on the petition was Shakil Hamid, 44, an accountant in Gaithersburg who emigrated legally from Bangladesh in 1977. He is an enthusiastic member of Help Save Maryland, which opposes allowing illegal immigrants to work, drive or receive a variety of public benefits.
“These people are taking seats in college away from our kids,” Hamid said. “Why should we reward their dishonest behavior?”

When you BREAK THE LAW there is a price to be paid....

Tell that to Gov Scott of Florida or the hundreds of bankers that collapsed the economy to the extent that the resulting public anxiety has turned many people to focus their nativist blaming on the poor and illegal immigrants.

There is a path to citizenship in this country, but only if you enter the country legally. That is how is should be. I have no problem expanding the immigration quotas and allowing more LEGAL immigrants to come here. I do have a problem giving citizenship to ANYONE who broke the law to get here. I understand wanting to come here, before we had Obama as president there was a lot of opportunity in this country, but enter legally and then if you want to become a citizen, fantastic, we would love to have you and as soon as we replace this president, there will be opportunity and freedom here again.

@ Boyd. Before we had Obama?? You meant to say before a cowboy entered two unfunded wars without an exit strategy and subsequently crashed our economy. Fixed it for ya.

Obama has run up more debt in three years than Bush did in 8 years with the two wars and TARP. Live with that fact, AZ.

Good post and I totally agree as I posted earlier that people don't think of the ramifications of the deportation ideology. By the way, I live in Omaha too! I love it here, although Ben Nelson is kind of a turd.

Clown show? I'm thinking it's more like WWE!!!

your an idiot!---

Its not racist to want the illegal aliens out, I am tired of footing the bill for them. Send them all home. I will only vote for the candidate who says, SEND THEM ALL HOME.

mutter - not voting next year are ya?

And that issue is at the heart of a significant problem with our current political system--namely, that the "hard-liners" in both parties are far too influential. As the article suggests, a candidate's standing on even this one issue could prove detrimental, even disastrous, in their attempt to secure the nomination. It's a scary thought that in today's political climate there's absolutely no room for differences of opinion. We absolutely need at least one more major political party to advocate for reform and compromise, one that espouses moderation and blends the steely resolve of Republicans with the greater global awareness of Democrats. Now that would be change to believe in.

John M,

Bingo, you nailed it. Kudos

John M. - You seem to be an intelligent fellow, too bad you drank the cool-aid and see racist's whenever just because race could be involved. I am an independant, but I agree wholeheartedly with the hardline conservatives on this issue (generally also cool-aid drinkers), and it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the law.

Based on the attitude of the liberals out there it would be perfectly safe to assume that, so long as you don't get caught w/in a certian number of years, you should not be held accountable for being a criminal. There are thousands of baby rapers out there who would love that! Pathetic. But then when your parties heros are Kennedys what else shuld be expected? They were bootleggers till Joe got a senate seat.

The idea that because they have been commiting a criminal act for generations they should be absolved, as many on this vine are calling for, is ludicrous at best. Your lack of respect for law abiding CITIZENS is disgusting.

And your adherence to the letter of the law is both impractical and dangerous. Laws are not sacrosanct just because they were written. Some law is bad law and can cause more damage than the problem it was intended to alleviate. Prohibition of alcohol comes to mind as does the current antiquated laws regarding marijuana.

culheath...I agree with your statement, but please expand on how laws regarding illegal immigration are bad and/or are causing more damage than the problem it was intended to alleviate.

(I've read some of your other post and you seem to have something intelligent to say, so I'm interested in your thoughts.)

Yes CulHealth - I would be interested in hearing more too....

On what our constitution says about ANCHOR BABIES. Our founding fathers had NO idea, this was going to happen and are probably turning in their GRAVES, seeing what has happened.

These people knowingly came here ILLEGALLY and KNEW, what was going to happen if they were caught. The BILLIONS spent every year by States and the FEDs on these (in my eye's) ILLEGAL BABIES, would be better spent giving REAL Americans, health Care, better schools and such....NO?

There are lots of us that do not share your opinion.

Very interesting responses.

Since Steve challenged me directly, I can assure you I haven't drunk any Kool-Aid on this topic. I'm not a Democrat. I didn't claim that all people that want to clamp down on illegal immigrants are racist; I said the opposite in fact...just that I believe (and I have some local justification for this) that a lot of the energy behind this movement is ugly.

A very technical point, but by nature of becoming "illegal," one has either committed a singular misdemeanor or no crime at all. Also, I said nothing about what I think about fixing (or otherwise) the status of those already here...that's an ultra-politically charged debate that can't be fixed so long as our legal immigration system is so broken.

To hs321: you were addressing culheath, but allow me to offer a comment. Most of those heads of household who are illegal as a result of sneaking across the border did so because:

1) they knew that there was a job waiting for them at their final destination,

2) they paid thousands of dollars to actual criminals to facilitate this often life-threatening journey, and

3) they had zero chance of gaining legal entry into the U.S. for any purpose.

As a general rule, we don't give even tourist visas to poor or working-class Mexicans/Central Americans.

@glw

Unfortunately, the GOP/tp only wants to exclude Hispanic babies. All others are OK by you folks. You can say that's not what they mean but trust me, we all know what's going on. All of this crap is targeting Hispanic folks and you know it. It's like the old "Southern Strategy", the words are changed but the intent is the same. I don't see any of you trying to hunt down Canadians, Scandinavians or Europeans and I'm sure I won't.

John..."they knew that there was a job waiting for them at their final destination"

The job isn't the end desire. It's money. Obtained by indulging in illegal activities. Kind of like saying a bank robber knows there is money waiting for him at his final destination. The destination justifies the means?

"they paid thousands of dollars to actual criminals to facilitate this often life-threatening journey,"

A very small fraction of 1% die crossing the border. And in the U.S., doing business with criminals is illegal. Not sure about Mexico, Canada or whatever country they come from when the arrive via water or air.

"they had zero chance of gaining legal entry into the U.S. for any purpose." If they had thousands to pay the coyote, why could they have not paid that thousands to a legitimate immigration attorney?

"As a general rule, we don't give even tourist visas to poor or working-class Mexicans/Central Americans."

Here are some of the requirements: http://www.path2usa.com/visitor-visa-guide/documents-for-applicant

Not a walk in the park, but certainly a valid way to enter the U.S. relative to the life-threatening crossing you mention and dealing with coyotes that will kill you just to take your money. People arrive in the U.S. everyday on tourist visas with absolutely no intention of ever returning to their home country except to retire.

And what of all the people who immigrated to the U.S. legally. Paying the money and waiting in line. I guess you want to walk up to them and say, "You stupid fool, you could've just walked across the border and then waited for someone to reward you for doing so by giving you amnesty.? Think that is unrealistic? See 20.1 above.

Too bad this this issue isn't as black and white as some would like it to be. But it's not.

What's the difference between a job and money, when we're talking about builders, janitors, etc.? Sorry, the activities aren't illegal, and "they" aren't criminals as a result of being subject to deportation.

It is the rare exception among legal immigrants, and I know MANY, who paid for and suffered through immigration services, that would trade places with a Mexican builder making $15 a day and who has no possibility to walk in their footsteps.

I'm fully aware of the process of obtaining and entering the U.S. with a B1/B2 visa. If you want to actually do this from Mexico...and this should be obvious since it's much cheaper than the coyotes...you will be denied without a pretty compelling case that you will return.