No Grant Y, what you meant to say was: taking it out of the hide of the Disappearing middle class and the rapidly expanding lower class, don't hurt the Captain's of industry (1%),

Budget Breakdown for 2012

Defense-related expenditure
2012 Budget request & Mandatory spending
Calculation

DOD spending
$707.5 billion
Base budget + "Overseas Contingency Operations"

FBI counter-terrorism
$2.7 billion
At least one-third FBI budget.

International Affairs
$5.6–$63.0 billion
At minimum, foreign arms sales. At most, entire State budget

Energy Department, defense-related
$21.8 billion

Veterans Affairs
$70.0 billion

Homeland Security
$46.9 billion

NASA, satellites
$3.5–$8.7 billion
Between 20% and 50% of NASA's total budget

Veterans pensions
$54.6 billion

Other defense-related mandatory spending
$8.2 billion

Interest on debt incurred in past wars
$109.1–$431.5 billion
Between 23% and 91% of total interest

Total Spending
$1.030–$1.415 trillion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States

These numbers match the White House Printing Office's budget. The forecasted revenues are $2.2T for 2012.

Cut that bloated sacred cow and stop the politicians from taking money from defense contractors. They speak of increased threats with Iran, while Haliburton and The Koch Brothers actively do business with Iran. Make sense? Nah

Watch how fast the Lobbyists for the Defense Contractors collapse this post.

In other words, there was no point or consequences for the Republicans refusing to at least try to work for the benefit of the county. They get what they want like spoiled, bratty children... yet again.

If this goes through. It really had better not. People have no confidence in Congress, and it's the GOP that's running their agenda through over and over, while the Democrats refuse to fight back.

CUT DEFENSE BY 90% !!

We live on an isolated continent with friendly neighbors.

Why we need to spend more on defense than the entire REST of the world combined?

Massive defense budget has vacuumed up every last tax dollar that we need for many many other things in our society.

CUT DEFENSE BY 90% !!

.

UnitedStates1776

CUT DEFENSE BY 90% !!

We live on an isolated continent with friendly neighbors.

Why we need to spend more on defense than the entire REST of the world combined?

Massive defense budget has vacuumed up every last tax dollar that we need for many many other things in our society.

CUT DEFENSE BY 90% !!

Yes. Our government creates fake reasons to stay at war.

Oh but wait I thought the GOP/TP reps said we don't have a revenue problem we have a spending problem. Ha!!! You know I do not think we should cut anything, we should cut loopholes for billionaires and companies, and maybe then they would not ask to take it out of out S.S and medicare. You know it is kind of funny they say cut cut CUT!!! when it comes to help the lower and middle class then when it comes to defense they say "no don't cut there."

See what is going on here,they want more poor people the more poor people there are the more poor people will join the military to fight their wars. Less poor people means less soldiers, less military spending means less incentive for the poor to join.

When they say "reconfigure" does that mean "hide" the expenditures like Bush did??? I'm going to invest in cork screws...that way when these "fake public servents" pass on the their reward, I'll have a corner on the market on how to gety them into the ground!!

This is never going to stop until we, the people of this country, demand it. Enough of the talk. Tell your congressman that if he/she wants to keep their job, support massive defense spending cuts.

Read between the lines !!!!!

They cut the budget , they cut their own throats .!!!!!!! It's all about money in their pockets.

bob

They claim we need billions for defense, we have not won a land war since 1945. The next war will be in the air, we are still subsidizing the defense industry, and they are buying our politicians.

How trite, this game of manipulation, on and on and on, with the ultimate goal of socking it to Social Security and Medicare

this has been the stated goal of republican deficit spending since Reagan, the entire "idea" (really effing stupid idea) is to run up deficits and then scream "tax ands spend" like little kids when they aren't in power . they don't give two spits for anyone in America except the top 2%

I say shared sacrifice - let's see the politicians take a cut in their salary! Then let's take a look at their budgets and slash them. Why is it always the middle class and poor get screwed?

Also no more government health care, huge pensions, etc..

I really think cutting the Defense Budget by 200 billions is not nearly enough. We should cut the DEFENSE BUDGET by 2 trillion dollars over 10 years or 200 billions a YEAR !!!.

First bring 70 % of the overseas trrops back home ( take these troops and put them to work to rebuild some of our infrastructure , roads, bridges, etc), this would reduce the amounts paid to outside contractors (most of the time are paid at the rate of 30 to 100 % inflated cost so that politicians can get kick backs on these deals) . Reduce the orders of new F35 airplaines by 50 %. This is a toal joke !!! We spend 100 of billions on these aircrafts when technology shows that these planes become obsolete within 10 years and therefore needs to be upgraded again to new models in the next decade.

Where is the long range planning and thinking ? Or is it again one more time beneficial to some politicians who profit from these programs?

Wake up America.

Then the government needs to reorganize the Pentagon to return to an efficient and modern administration and productive. These people working there think they have a job for life, no matter what. This is where the competition and innovations should be most the most visible. This would save the taxpayers tonnes of wasted money due to inefficiency. Can you believe the Pentagon claims that " it cannot be audited because its books are not in order'.

What a shame !!!

Think people: China is 6 times bigger than the US and THEIR DEFENSE BUDGET IS ONLY 92 BILLIONS DOLLARS !!!!

WHY DO WE HAVE TO BUILD AND SPEND SO MUCH MONEY ??? Did you ever ask yourself these questions... perhaps you should

p111, it was the collapse of the economy caused by the republicans that caused federal revenues to collapse, causing that massive increase in deficit spending.

of course right-wing drones aren't capable of understanding the most basic economics, what can you expect from people that think "less is more" and "more is less" , "killing is good" and "helping others is bad"

This shows you the true priorities of the republican perpetual war party. We could have infants starving, people sleeping on the streets and the elderly dying hungry, alone and destitute but cut the defense budget? Oh no, the republicans will not allow you to harm their meal ticket. How else are we going to pay for the coming war in Iraq? And if we allow the republicans to get their grubby hands on our government, there will be a new war with Iraq.

But Senator Jon Kyl, the Senate's No. 2 Republican, did not say he would agree to extend the payroll tax and unemployment benefits.

"The payroll tax holiday has not stimulated job creation. We don't think that is a good way to do it. Before the end of the year, we will have discussions about what we're going to do on all these different programs," Kyl said on "Fox News Sunday.

We can't wait until the end of the year for 'a discussion' about these type of programs. However, the republicans can sure stand up and say we can't cut defense spending. The defense of the United States is important, but if we can't get millions of people in this country a job, we won't have much of a United States to defend.

We could cut the defense budget in half and still spend more than the rest of the world combined. Why do we need to spend so much more than everybody else?

Plainly and simply put: The Republicans are merely lap dogs for the Military Industrial Complex. They will waste trillions on fraud and blood profits for a select few, with no real threat or problems curtailed but definitely created, destroying other countries and murdering ordinary folks in their swath of bombs and bullets, as well murdering ANY good will the U.S. may possibly have left as well as robbing the rest of our economy and neglecting our infrastructure. How can anyone who isn't in the Blood War Machine can remotely vote for them staggers the imagination.

P.S. The Democrats aren't much better but, sadly, the lesser of evils now.

They (Teapubs) need to stop massaging things; on everything they've been poking their noses on; they have left nothing boogers......what a bunch of idiots!

In the history of this country, I have never seen so much lunacy from the right....to a point where you begin to wonder if they will ever ascend to the presidency any time soon as their support erodes countrywide...

Another bunch of miscalculations by the GOP. First, they refuse to cut their own wasteful spending on non military items. Second, they refuse to compromise with the Dems on spending cuts and taxes. Third, they purpose the super committee figuring they can bully the Dems into capitulating.(budget control act 2011 was a GOP bill) Fourth, they miscalculate the Dems resolve. Fifth, they did not see Occupy movement or it's taking hold with many Americans. Sixth, they totally misread the mood of the American people who see the GOP's deadlock tactics as the problem. Seventh, they forget that they too had a hand in creating this economic mess.(the latest example is Gingrich's making over a million off Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac) Eighth, following Grover Norquist's (lobbyist and unelected) unsustainable economic plan. Critics at the Cato Institute have argued that "holding the line on taxes constrains only one of the four tools (taxes, tax deductions, spending without taxation, and regulation) used by government to alter economic outcomes."The Tax Pledge has been used as rationale by ATR for not closing tax loopholes which disproportionately favor specific industries and the wealthiest Americans. Norquist has been criticized for foregoing traditional Republican ideals of fiscal responsibility so as to maintain the position regarding tax policy. Norquist is the father of Bush's spend beyond the government's income but don't tax deficits. Ninth, they trot out a bunch of inarticulate boobs as presidential candidates. Those candidates continue to push social issues that have nothing to do with the major problem which is the economy. Tenth, they try to take credit of successes they had nothing to do with like killing so many terrorist leaders like Bin Lauden.

@P11 Actually the web as we know it today was invented at CERN and various other publicly and privately funded research centers. Most of the real advancements in medicine and technology happen at these places, not private corporations. It's the corporations job to steal it, try to modify it slightly so they can get a patent, and then milk every penny of profit possible out of it.

Repeal the cuts to the defense department and I will vote against every Republican, except Ron Paul, next election. Our defense budget is larger than almost the entire world put together. It is ridiculous and America can't afford it. The reason we spend more than 1 trillion on defense is because we are watching every border except our own. End the wars and bring ALL of our troops home.

In 2000 the defense budget was 300B. Now it's 700B. All the discussion about destroying the military with a 60B cut is nonsense. We spend 40% of the world's defense budget, and six times the next largest spender. Time to bring it back down to 300B over the next decade.

People need to read the Congressional Record to see exactly who Republicans are in bed with, here is a small excerpt:

TERRORIST CONNECTIONS

Not only was Mr. Norquist entangled with the criminal dealings of Jack Abramoff, but documentation shows that he has deep ties to supporters of Hamas and other terrorist organizations that are sworn enemies of the United States and our ally Israel.

According to Senate lobbying disclosure records of his now defunct lobbying firm, Janus-Merritt Strategies, around the years 2000 and 2001 Mr. Norquist's firm represented Abdurahman Alamoudi, who was convicted two years later for his role in a terrorist plot and who is presently serving a 23-year sentence in federal prison.

Court documents and a October 15, 2004, Department of Justice press release reveal that Alamoudi, the president of the American Muslim Council, was arrested at Dulles Airport in September 2003 upon returning to the U.S after participating in a Libyan plot to assassinate the Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah. ``Alamoudi participated in recruiting participants for this plot by introducing the Libyans to two Saudi dissidents in London and facilitating the transfer of hundreds of thousands of dollars of cash from the Libyans to those dissidents to finance the plot,'' the release said.

According to the DOJ press release, Alamoudi, a naturalized citizen, pled guilty to three federal offenses: One count of violating the International Emergency Powers Act; One count of false statements made in his application for naturalization; A tax offense involving a long-term scheme to conceal from the IRS his financial transactions with Libya and his foreign bank accounts and to omit material information from the tax returns filed by his charities.

It is important to point out that Alamoudi's ties to terrorist groups were no secret prior to his arrest.

IGNORING SUBPOENAS

It is also noteworthy that Mr. Norquist and Americans for Tax Reform repeatedly refused to comply with the congressional subpoenas for additional information regarding their role in the Abramoff affair, according to an April 21, 2005, article in Roll Call.

Additionally, Mr. Norquist refused to comply with an earlier congressional subpoena according to a 1998 Senate Governmental Affairs report, which found Americans for Tax Reform in violation of its tax-exempt status.

Given Norquist's questionable role in the Abramoff scandal, his refusal to comply with congressional subpoenas is all the more troubling.

YOU CAN FIND THE ENTIRE CONGRESSIONAL RECORD ONLINE AND READ IT FOR YOURSELF IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME

Cry us another stinking, filthy river, Republican warlords. Though a strong defense is necessary, your multiple, endless wars have ruined our country and increased the cycle of violence across the whole planet. And don't bother vomiting your religious propaganda: You're gun-running profiteers creating hell on earth.

Jake2509

We all know that it was Al Gore that invented the internet.

kornfed, al gore never claimed to have "invented the internet" , what he did do was to sponser and get the support in congress for legislation that forced the phone companies to support home connections the the early arpanet. something the phone companies did NOT want to do because they couldn't see a way to make money from it. (my how that has changed)

the "private business always does it better" is BS because the large companies are just as bureacracy bound as the government and is even worse when a few large corporations have a near-monopoly on the market, they aren't going to innovate when they have cornered the market and are making their executives and shareholders happy at the expense of everyone else.

I hope Obama tells the reugs & baggers to get screwed, until they are serious about saving this country and getting people back to work, to h... with all of them, they get what they deserve, nothing!

"I think there's a broad consensus that too much of the cuts are weighted on our defense's capabilities and would really, really cut in deeply into our ability to defend this nation," said Senator Pat Toomey, a member of the "super committee" that failed last week to reach a deal to reduce the huge U.S. debt.

Republicans AGREED TO this super committee deal, no they just want to pretend it never happened? What a bunch of lying weasels. This whole thing is just a microcosm of why Congress is broken...Conservative Republicans have no scruples and are firmly in the pockets of the wealthy elites who bought them.

Republicans AGREED TO this super committee deal, no they just want to pretend it never happened?

The super committee is nothing more than a vehicle for deflection of blame. Both parties wanted it, because they dont want the backlash from thier base when the automatic cuts go into effect . Nobody is going to be happy when this is all over, I assure you

For those lamenting about throwing out the Republicans, I live in Tennessee. If Jesus ran as a Democrat, this state would still send a Republican to office, it's just how they roll here. Common sense was never a popular feature on the eastern side.

Not even close at 1.39, Kornfed. Democrats wanted a clean increase in the debt ceiling as has been done over 70 times since JFK was President, 7 times while George W Bush was President. Republicans refused to do that, preferring to play chicken with the US economy as well as potentially destroying the faith and credit of the US Treasury.

When President Obama proved to have a backbone and called their bluff Republicans came up with this super committee fiasco in an attempt to free themselves from a trap of their own creation. The assumption was they could tar Democrats with the same old, lame "soft on Defense" smear they've used for the last couple of decades.

Things aren't what they were, though. The American public is war-weary and no longer WANTS to spend as much on Defense as the rest of the world. Republicans remain in a very deep hole, without the sense to stop digging.

david - TLDNR

Crystallize

"Kenny McCoy - Do not drool that nasty tobacco juice on the floor! And now I'm going to have to clean the computer keyboard! That's it. NO MORE COMPUTER!!!!ALL DAY!

Nice straw man arguments, Ken McCoy and Get Real.

Do you have anything to contribute that's based in reality? President Obama won with 53% of the vote in 2008...are 53% of Americans "low life leech parasites"?

GR, maybe you'd like to tell the rest of us how many private sector, high tech jobs are funded by the defense budget. Do Conservatives really want to put themselves in the position of defending government spending as a creator of jobs, something which they constantly deny as even possible?

Wasnt it in TN where that guys house burnt down and they let it because he didn't pay his fire dept tax?

That's right, Orthosophy. Great example of the idiocy that would become commonplace in the Ayn Rand wonderland so wished for by today's radical Conservatives.

According to this the military is getting a increase of 70 billion with the cuts.

http://nbcpolitics.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/23/8973188-fact-check-hyperbole-on-terror-interrogations

Both Romney and rival Rick Perry have been criticizing Obama for looming defense cuts that are triggered by the failure of the deficit supercommittee to act. But the cuts would only slow the rate of growth of Pentagon spending, which has been vastly increased because of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, now winding down. According to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, the planned Pentagon budget for 2021 would be some $700 billion, an increase over the current level of about $520 billion. The cuts agreed to last summer plus the automatic reductions would trim the projected 2021 budget by about $110 billion.

AlMightyDollar

All Federal spending "cuts" work in this way. The Government never actually cuts anything.

Defense cuts have to be part of a balanced budget cutting process and they need to be done with the realization that we live in dangerous times that absolutely require a strong military. There are plenty of ways to cut defense spending without crippling the military, and force strength should be the absolute last place cuts are made.

Once the across the board budget cutting process is complete and cuts are in place, I have no issue with returning to Clinton era tax rates, but that has to happen AFTER cuts, or the cuts will never happen, just as they didn't happen when George H.W. Bush agreed to tax hikes combined with spending cuts in 1990 after pledging "Read my lips, NO New Taxes" in 1988. Not only did the cuts never happen, but his decision to work with the Democrats was used against him during the 1992 Presidential Campaign !!

@david-475776: Hey David, please change your name to WARMONGER. Or BLOOD MONEY. You must have no life at all, or you are paid to post your pro-death garbage, because you have typed many words of pro-war BS today. War = jobs is your message and it's a true message, except that it leaves out morals. War jobs are pork. They are war welfare. They are trillions of taxpayer dollars borrowed from China to finance DEATH. You need to get a life, little fella, and stop shilling for Satan. He loves war, as you do.

All Federal spending "cuts" work in this way. The Government never actually cuts anything.

This A$$ backwards mentality, or out right lie as I see it.

What is the loon thinking when he goes on a show and says. We can't cut the military budget from 520 billion dollars to 590 billion. We just won't be able to defend the homeland.

They asked for 180 billion, there getting 70 billion of it. That's not a cut it's a increase.

Forget about inflation driven increases or any of that non-sense. We can cut our current defense budget by 20% and would STILL be spending more than the next 10 countries combined. If we can't appropriately defend our country with that amount of money then the problem is not with the budget but rather the structure itself.

Our military industrial complex (yes it is a reality) is out of control and needs to be reined it, severely and immediately. This is coming from someone who *was* part of that wasteful and inefficient DoD system for 8 years and also happens to know engineers/managers in the defense industry such as Raytheon and Lockheed Martin.

Make every Congress member (Senate & the House) work for the minimum wage, no bonuses and no entitlements, and see how all the problems of this country goes away.

As far as I see it, the republicans forced the issue of having a super committee on us by holding the debt ceiling hostage. They released their "hostage" for agreement on the super committee which had the penalty of across the board budget cuts should they not reach an agreement. They didn't reach agreement by holding out for no real revenue increases according to their promises to a lobbyist. Now that they didn't manage to force the Democrats hand at their "my way or the highway" demands,the repubs want to back off and make a deal for their military industrial cronies to not cut the military budget and keep their defense contractor kickbacks coming their way.

workingpoor-2370498

There are going to be cuts across the board..as there should be. Yes, that includes domestic spending cuts which you Libs tend to leave entirely out of the conversation.

Interestingly enough, none of these cuts will be actual cuts. They will be decreases in projected spending increases. The Federal Government cuts nothing.

Absolutely too bad for our tea bagging republican extremist in government. ;] The time to have DONE that was before the deadline. Our President WILL veto anything you attempt so you are simply WASTING more of our precious tax dollars doing absolutely, NOTHING. ; ] I suppose you should have tried compromise, working together with the opposition instead of dying on the vine as you wither of impotence.

A shame that more dirty weasel tactics need be attempted by a party who has helped bring the congress to an all time historical low. And the recourse then is to WASTE more tax dollars trying to get THERE way or the high way once again. Because they feel sooooo absolute in there own entitlement to the rules working ONLY in there own favor. Not withstanding I might add what a pity party you must need when you go home to a job NOT done.

WASTE indeed. ; ]

Cheers

Do not let it slip your tea bagging republican extremist mind that two that is DOS unpaid wars make up a tremendous absolutely huge BIG GIGAntic chunk of our nations debt as it continues by the day. Ten years and counting in fact. Yet tea bagging republican extremist wish to lecture the people of this nation on fiscal responsibility. All the while trying to worm there way out of fiscal responsibility.

You should be ashamed of yourselves, but I know you are not. So SHAME on you. ; ]

Cheers

A shame that more dirty weasel tactics need be attempted by a party who has helped bring the congress to an all time historical low.

Am I the only guy that recognizes that both sides use weasel tactics? You libs have been bamboozled by O'bama himself when he held off the vote to end the Bush tax cuts until after the mid-term elections. He did this so he could blame the Republicans....He never wanted to end the Bush tax cuts! In fact, he is quoted as saying it would be foolish to raise taxes during a recession.

this final no from the republican subcommittee should serve as a waterloo for the president...we are tired of him trying to make peace and bipartisanship with a group that has no interest in bipartisanship or the american middle class republican and democrat at all...if they cant come up on a solution in a timely fashion and then try to change the rules become the president of no...work for the people that put you into office ..warm up your veto stamp...the republicans have had a chance to show that they are willing to give a little bit for the american people but are so bent in helping rich america (their benefactors) that it is essentially saying screw the american people...do not give them another chance to work out a deal for the wealthy...they have had their chance and blew it ...let the extension for the wealthy die and get your veto stamp ready...americans are truly hurting and the republicans just dont care..but dont just sit there suffering people...get ready to do what we have to to protect our interests as well in 2012..

sandtrich

Budget Breakdown for 2012

You ara right on the money but you are missing a big one that the military AND the government refuses to talk about

THE BLACK programs from the military and NSA. billions of dollars that nobody is accountable for or willing to discuse it.

Dems have the majority of America on their side when it comes to budget solutions. Republicans have been destroying the economy for long enough. It's time for the dems to stand their ground and refuse anything that doesn't produce serious revenue as outlined so many times already in killed bills.

All these wars on terrorism are just excuses to keep the war machine going. I think if we quit killing these people and busting their doors down in the middle of the night and the Corporations would quit destroying their countries for PROFIT they would quit hating us. If we pulled all our soldiers home and protected our boarders and fixed our infrastructural I don't really think the terrorist would come over here and throw rocks at us !!! Leave them alone and quit the bombing and we will be all right.

I have a feeling that the republicans unwillingness to compromise on anything, and their obsession to make obama a one term president at any cost, along with the unrest with the party within their party will be to their detriment, and is going to cost them big in the next election. there were a lot of independents who voted republican the last election, but I think most just like myself have had it with the my way or the highway mentality.

How do you think we won the Cold war? We outspent the USSR and they went broke and collapsed trying to keep up with our defense spending. Who are we competing with now??? Wake up DC - NOBODY!!!! Cut the spending on defense and on yourselves to something we can afford and let those who have spent their 30 to 40-year careers paying into Social Security and Medicare collect what they have paid for. Also, why don't you members of congress get off your "Better-than-we-the-people" collective high horse, kill off your golden parachute retirements and participate in the same programs everyone else does? I mean what's right about serving two terms in Congress or one term in the Senate earning you a six-figure pension? There is something really wrong when your regulation of our retirements doesn't touch your own.

All opposing points of view must be collapsed by the community.

You are free to debate as long as you agree with me. Otherwise, it is in the best interest of the people to hide your point of view.

Any example of the other side doing the same thing qualifies them as a hypocrite and, therefore, justifies us doing it to you.

I am very rigid in my open-mindedness.

Defense expenditures increases as announced over the last year by the Administration:

1. +2500 US Marines sent to south Pacific to counter China
2. Increase Predator actions in Afghanistan and Pakistan
3. Attack Chopper actions starting up in Pakistan
4. Military "trainers" sent to Uganda
5. Libya kinetic military action
6. New Predator drone bases in South Saudi Arabia and East Africa
7. Increase military present in Kuwait to counter with drawl from Iraq
8. Contractors sent to Iraq to replace military pull out
9. Strike Fighter second engine design continuation against SOD Gates recommendation
10. Increase military survalance of US-Mexico boarder
11. Increase Predator drone usage in Yemen to execute "secret death panel recommendations"
12. Movement of the 8th Fleet to Japan to assist in earthquake/tsunami relief
13. Fleet action in the North China Sea to counter China aggression
14. Fleet action near North Korea to counter attack on South Korea island
15. Increase military tribunals in Ghetmo.

This are action take from the current Democratic President, ones that are not so inherited from the previous Administration. Which btw, still has a military expenditure. It costs military budge to actually remove soldiers from Iraq, and there is no new future outlook for the end in Afghanistan. The press and bloggers here can blame the Republicans all they want for this, but the question is if there is an increase military expenditures by the Democrat President, who does not often get Congressional approval for those expenditures, how do you pay for those increase expenditures if you are at the same time reducing the budget for those expenditures? 2-5 does not equal 10, people... it equals negative 3, which means borrow...from China?

A few of these defense arguments are interesting. Indeed it seems tea bagging republican extremist in the government in particular choose insanity over reason. Insanity by definition. Repeating the same task over and over expecting a different outcome. Acting as though America is outmatched trying to catch up to a nemesis of sorts is absurd indeed. Why must the congress continue to ignore NAFTA without illegal labor, import export trade deficits and the actuality of the housing markets turmoil coupled with over foreclosure? Hmmm.

By in part of ignorance it does seem politicians pay far to much attention to reelection years out. This is born out by the date moving of primaries in certain states. Term limits and corporate money are good answers to curb such non sense. NO ONE should be a career politician by any stretch of the imagination. How many are, and have squandered tax payer dollars who built there fortunes? There wealth there small empires? All on the backs of the tax payer and undue influence on the private markets through public sector ties. Like Mr. Gingrich for example . ;]

Cheers

I am no longer amused with the dog and pony show of having a fictitious two party system that actually only serves the ruling class.

If the Democrats really care so much about the plight of the middle class why didn't do more when they had a chance; the same goes for the Republicans who are willing to further escalate the national debt by giving huge tax breaks to the wealthiest Americans; the ideologies of both parties are a phoney smoke screen.

We don't need to go to war against countries that are not affiliated with the world banking system. It's time that the two puppet parties be dropped into the trash and the Plutocracy of America be overturned - death to the New World Order.

This are action take from the current Democratic President, ones that are not so inherited from the previous Administration. Which btw, still has a military expenditure. It costs military budge to actually remove soldiers from Iraq, and there is no new future outlook for the end in Afghanistan.

Whatever happened to the "Peace Diffidend" that Regan promissed we would get, from not having to compete with the Former Soviet Union (they went broke, trying to keep up with the Jones')

Have danced around the truth for so long .... GOPper/Congress can't keep the lies straight anymore.

sandtrich "Budget Breakdown for 2012 These numbers match the White House Printing Office's budget. The forecasted revenues are $2.2T for 2012..... They speak of increased threats with Iran, while Haliburton and The Koch Brothers actively do business with Iran."

Your figures looked skewed, so I checked the official White House Budget for 2012, and sure enough, they are skewed. Obama's White House Budget calls for $2.627 Trillion in Revenues for 2012, almost 20% more than you claimed.

As for your claims that "Haliburton and the Koch brothers actively do business with Iran", I suspect that this claim is equally specious. Can you provide a reliable link, other than your fertile imagination?

The total Department of Defense Budget for 2012 is $707 Billion. Including expenditures for the State Department, the Energy Department, NASA, FBI, Homeland Security and Interest on the Debt as part of the Defense Budget is hardly appropriate - perhaps they should be charged to the White House. More than 100% of the Deficits over the next 10 years are attributable to spending on Medicare and Medicaid - should we charge all of the increased interest to those programs?

People can claim that Obama is a secret Muslim, but that doesn't mean it's true. By the way - a link to an obviously biased article in wikipedia is hardly a reliable link.

Here's the link to Obama's White House Budget for 2012 - Look at Table S-1 for the actual budgeted receipts.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2012/assets/tables.pdf

I said it before and I will say it again! I am 100% for BIG GOVERNMENT!~

Not Big Brother that intrudes in our lives, but Big government that has many government jobs (Including military, schools, post offices, etc..) because each one of those jobs helps our national economy with a taxpaying american employee filled job!

I'm sorry - But we as a country MUST increase taxes AND cut programs too! We have an out of control debt, and all these things that we have sunset clauses on do not need to be extended! Obama should Veto any bill that extends any program set to expire!

If we don't start increasing taxes (especially on the upper percent) - then the dollar will continue to devalue, The Economy will continue to stagnate, the middle class cannot buy products from the 1% corporations causing them to lose their companies, and eventually all that money the 1% own will be devalued until it is worthless even for them.

We have a lot of money in this country, but it is not being circulated. This money being hoarded is not helping the economy. Either we start breaking the money lock dam, or every american no matter what % will be broke!

Taxes circulate money! Taxes help improve roads and other things that help commerce. Taxes help the impoverished to buy food, and other goods which help keep companies in business.

If we don't buckle down and get this economy straight then this country will be gone! PERIOD!

As for your claims that "Haliburton and the Koch brothers actively do business with Iran", I suspect that this claim is equally specious. Can you provide a reliable link, other than your fertile imagination?

Funny you have no problem with disputing budget figures by using a White House link but cannot use Google to find what you don't want to believe.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-02/koch-brothers-flout-law-getting-richer-with-secret-iran-sales.html

And Halliburton.

http://www.iranian.com/main/2009/mar/halliburton-sold-nuclear-technology-iran

More Halliburton

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7119752/ns/nightly_news-nbc_news_investigates/t/halliburton-operates-iran-despite-sanctions/#.TtMHm_IXEgA

P111 When Obama took office the unemployment rate was over 10% You think if you lie long enough maybe you'll believe yourself. You are a clueless buffoon.

But I won't argue with you, because it's unwise to argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!

Larry

It is the Partisan blinders that prevent the average human from using Google..and becoming a sheep in the process.

Whatever happened to the "Peace Diffidend" that Regan promissed we would get, from not having to compete with the Former Soviet Union (they went broke, trying to keep up with the Jones')

Have danced around the truth for so long .... GOPper/Congress can't keep the lies straight anymore.

Beoweolf,

First it near useless to blame an Administration that has been removed from office for two decades for current problems. It is further getting old to continue blaming any previous Administrations for current problems. Continue to blame previous Administrations for current problems is the same thing as saying they the current Administration is unable to take responsibility for their job and lead the country to better times. So when is the current Administration going to start working again?

Second, my argument was not against cutting the defense budget. It was not against the current military actions being done over the last 3 years. There are separate arguments that can be made both ways on both of those subjects. My point has been that increasing military expendatures while at the same time reducing the amount of money given for those military expendature is a bit counter productive. If it is importent enough to send +2500 Marines to the South Pacific to prevent China's "militaristic intentions", than the Administration needs to find a way to pay for it. But if it is MORE importent that we cut the current budgetary issues in the defense budget in order to protect other domestic issues and subsentence, than the Administration should not be considering to send troops to areas that may or may not really need them for aggressive actions that may or may not be in play.

Come on people, this stuff is not that difficult to do. We all do it every day. In our personal life if we find that we do not have enough money and we need to pay the electric bill, we have to decide that paying for the children to go see the new Twilight movie is not necessarily the best thing for OUR budget. So why is it to hard for us to understand that if our country believes that we must free the people of Libya from a dictator we cannot continue spending in other things?

If they abrogate the "Trigger" vote them all out. Do not lose focus on the Credit rating. $3 Trillion is the number to forego another credit rating reduction. The $1.2 Trillion from the "Trigger" is only a start. It's time for the Military and all entitlements to face up to the reality. The Military and all agencies must contract in size, or in salaries and benefits, in order to justly reduce the Deficit and get after the Debt.

The Military machine for whatever reason seems to take this personally.

End politics. Short of having the balls to tax the living beejeezas out of the little people, live within our means given what there is.

If Americans choose to have a top heavy Military, they can vote themselves a 50% income tax for everybody so that the Generals can pound the crap out of anyone whenever they feel like it worldwide.

If Americans choose to be militarily meek and not be taxed so be it.

That's Democracy.

We have a 'smarty pants President and Generals' who have operated at a deficit rate of nearly $1.5 Trillion since January 2009, nearly tripple what GWB operated at, and GWB had real wars not trumped up left over wars.

First it near useless to blame an Administration that has been removed from office for two decades for current problems. It is further getting old to continue blaming any previous Administrations for current problems. Continue to blame previous Administrations for current problems is the same thing as saying they the current Administration is unable to take responsibility for their job and lead the country to better times. So when is the current Administration going to start working again?

The point you are attempting to make is just illogical.

Your conceit is based on the assumption that everyone agreed with 100% with the compromises made during previous administration - therefore some statute of limitation is in effect. Even worse you seem to think your complaints about the current administration are so obvious that we agree with you,dispute lack of documentation of your unfounded accusations.

Politics moves at glacial speed, we allowed the previous administrations time to prove or disprove the direction they were taking the country, they were given sufficient time to produce the effects they claimed would flow from what we knew were suspect policies.

We also respected the vote which put those failed policies in place. Your faith in Regan, bush, bushII were not what many of us wanted to see, but we respected the process which put them in office.

I see nothing which shows respect for the votes and voters which we won in the last election. Your comments are null, void and disrespectful of the process we, as voters engage in to make our choices.

If you can't respect the process, then your voice is wasted - you can't seem to understand what voting is about.

... I don't know about the rest of the country, but I am FED Up with the do nothing Tea baggers whose soul purpose.... is to cost ONE person his job instead of helping millions get one. Where are the jobs they promised when they took office two years ago? that's right, it was a lie...

You bring nothing to the table, contribute nothing to the process - then complain when something is done. is that helping the nation, your neighbors - advancing the process at all?

Absolutely correct, Beoweolf. It's never too late to fix a mistake from a previous time. Getting out of the Neocon wars is a good start. Fixing the permanent structural deficits created by Republican administrations and Congresses going back to the Reagan Administration is another.

Scott, darn, and all Obama had to deal with was a 50% revenue drop due to an economic crisis. Bush's last budget was for a 1.4 trillion deficit and Obama had the audacity to raise that projection by 0.15. What a crook.

Now Obama is only proposing 4 trillion in cuts and the Republicans are countering with 1.2 trillion in cuts except no defense cuts and the Bush "job-creating" (see jobs created in last 10 years) tax cuts are sacred along with welfare to the largest and richest corporations.

I'd take 1.2 trillion in cuts to the poor and sick over 4 trillion in balanced cuts any day since the Republicans have such a great record of budget cutting and economic planning. Right? Who's with me?

We also respected the vote which put those failed policies in place. Your faith in Regan, bush, bushII were not what many of us wanted to see, but we respected the process which put them in office.

Your statements here, Beoweolf, are contradicted by the historic statements that has been maded for the reason behind George HW Bush losing his second term as President and the election of Bill Clinton for two terms in office. The historical statements is that the voters lost confidence in Bush, Senior, when he made a political announcement of "No New Taxes", and than due to hard econimical times had to raise taxes.

Further, your argument about about my disrepect of the voters choice with this latest election is in-itself a disrepect of MY vote in the latest election. I do not call you vote against Reagan, Bush Senior, or Bush Junior as disrepect of the voting choices of the "people", assuming you voted against them. So why is it necessary that my statement of the people and the Administration NEEDS to stop blaming previous Administrations for their current problems as "disrespect of the voters choice"?

Again, how does it help to blame the Reagan Administration, the Bush Senior Administration, and the Bush Junior Administration for our current problems as a mechinism to resolve those current problem. Call it illogical if you want, but answer the question if you can?

And again, I am not arguing of the cuts should or should not occur. I am not arguing of we should or should have have went in to Libya in this thread. I am arguing that in general, you cant DO BOTH. You cant cut the Defense budget, at the same time you increase its expendatures.

Correction here: Libya was not a US war, it was a NATO coalition that lasted only a few months. Compare to Desert Storm in the 1990s.

I agree Sheila with you and a lot of other folks. This is going to be painful for many parts of society, but it was the original deal and the non-compromising, unreasonable nitwits that were supposed to avoid this should be held accountable for the consequences.

They only like to cut domestic programs.

the defense budget could easily be sliced in half and we would still have far more than enough to defend ourselves. I'll say it again, no one wastes more money than the military does, and no one is dragging down our economic recovery more than they are.

Well I think I see why US Troops are being redeployed to the United States... Because if the looser Republican'ts, the Party of the No, win in November 2012 they will first, junk the plan to cut the over bloated Military Industrial Defense complex. Then they will threaten to end Social Security and the other programs, then they will end free schools, (After all, they teach ungodly Evolution there (Sarcasm))

Then you will have hundreds of millions of people living in the streets. And conditions like that will only lead in one direction which is why Congress has ordered the military to be deployed to the streets as well.

The republican'ts should bite the bullet and allow the overbloated Military Industrial Complex to be cut to 50 billion dollars and no more.

I hope Obama has figured out that he has a spine and will veto any Republican't threat to exclude their masters in the one percent and Military from automatic cuts. Unfortunately Obama is a coward so he will roll over and let the Republican'ts win once again as he has always done so... Thats how this supercommittie came about in the first place, Coward Obama rolled over and let the Republican'ts have the Committie.

Wonder why there is no mention that the Republican't and tea parties has lower approval points than Congress and the Democrats?

p111 - It is a lie?? I don't know about the rest of the country, but I am FED Up with the do nothing Tea party, whose soul purpose.... is to cost ONE person his job instead of helping millions get one. Where are the jobs they promised when they took office two years ago? that's right, it was a lie........

We ALL know....When it comes to "TODAY'S Republican Party", there is absolutely NOTHING to understand !!!

These are the types of things that the GOP does that are so glaringly OBVIOUS - get them the hell out of our countries busines.

And so, I think it's important that we change the configuration," Toomey said

Of course it is Sen Toomey. Heaven forbide your masters have to contribute anything to reducing spending in the U.S. I have news for you. EVERY department, defense included, in the federal government needs to make the sacrifice. What needs doing is bring home almost EVERY U.S. service man and woman, close most of the bases around the world. The one exception should be Korea.

Congress is telling the American people they need to tighten the belt. Funny but the one group Congress hasn't said anything about is Congress. As they see the problem and they, supposedly, serve us, let's start with an immediate 50% pay cut for members of Congress, the Executive branch and the Judical branch to include their staffs. Also, let them contribute to their medical and retirement. Supposedly that is the rethugli-con way (see Wisconsin, Ohio, Indiana, etc.).

HILARIOUS watching Conservatives defend government spending as something which creates jobs, something they deny as being even a possibility except when the jobs in question are connected to the DOD.

"Now Kenny McCoy I told you... you've made a mess all overr the p-lace with that slobber juice. No Little Debbie Tonight!!!!

There not even getting a cut. It's a 70 billion dollar increase.

http://nbcpolitics.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/23/8973188-fact-check-hyperbole-on-terror-interrogations

The military is asking for a 180 billion dollar increase. But there only getting a 70 billion increase, that's with the cuts. Other wise they would get the whole 180 billion. Bringing the military budget to almost 3/4 of a trillion dollars for 2012.

Republican agenda is the selective underpinning of a narrow wealthy elite. A movement conservatism, such as was present in the country prior to the election of "Teddy Roosevelt. Any policy that hurts this narrow wealthy elite must be changed or killed at whatever costs to all others. They are most comfortable with this view by holding the powers of defense spending above all things, including citizenry health, education, and overall general betterment.

plz tell me how GIVING someone free healthcare,education,or supplying them a living,is bettering them?

allowing someone to be self reliant will better them far more than the former will

I have a feeling that the republicans unwillingness to compromise on anything, and their obsession to make obama a one term president at any cost, along with the unrest with the party within their party will be to their detriment, and is going to cost them big in the next election. there were a lot of independents who voted republican the last election, but I think most just like myself have had it with the my way or the highway mentality.

aomize: First, who said anything about giving anyone anything? Providing an environment conducive to the ability of all, to attain and maintain health, education and generally, the pursuit of happiness, through the policies of government when needed, are the primary reasons we have a government. What is the good of a strong defense for the protection of a miserable people? What is the good of a nation with a wealthy few that does not and cannot tend those who have little or nothing? What good is a Capitalistic system that accommodates only the wealthy at the expense of the lesser many? Finally, what good is a government that creates laws and policy directed toward the embellishment of the wealthy few while ignoring the appropriate needs of the many?

The problem is the congress men and women won't be feeling the effects of these cuts. It will be our troops and our schools, etc. that feel the pinch. I am not saying that we need to increase taxes further (especially not right now), but removing ourselves from some free trade agreements and creating some tariffs might help grow our domestic economy and give corporations an incentive to not ship our jobs overseas.

That's so true these MORON's say well America has to make some sacrifices but what about Congress and the Senate, oh are they not Americans, it's so easy when the suffering is by others .....

No tax hikes for the rich but let's say no to the payroll tax cut and unemployment benefits which is such a huge issue because the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy or as the Republicans call them "the job creators" have not created any jobs since the cuts were put in place over ten years ago. This country is not going to stand for this crap any longer. The payroll tax cut and unemployment benefits would be spent back into the economy. The Bush tax cuts stayed in the pockets of the rich and are still in the pockets of the rich doing absolutely no good at all for this country. Wise up America. Vote these people out who protect the wealthy and Wall Street and make them pay.

What is not being said..and should be..is that our politicals parties today...our congress, our government is broken. Our "honest" elected in congress are bought and paid for..also consider..they are a part of that 1 % they are complaining about the 99% that have the attention right now of the media..even though...republicans and some democrates are tring to put it down. Instead of picking sides..we voters should be calling for and honest government..one that actually responds to the general public rather than the wealthy elite...who our congress today is a part of. So far, neither party is responding to what is being called for by the voters...Our constitution calls for a government of the people and by the people.....congressional members signed on tho do the work requested by the voters..not themselves or their wealthy friends. Neither party has been able to pass a budget for this country in years..even the republicans when they had the office of president could not pass a budget in a timely manner. Also, we must consider that our congress today..when it sets up bills or laws that they pass..they make sure they themselves are excempt from them...they give themselves a payraise when they want one...their insurance is better than any ciftizen could ever get..except for their wealthy friends..and that cost is born by the voters...even while they proceed to cut benefits to the folks of the middle class who are paying for these lazy politicans to have their own insurance. Protecting profits has become the name of the game for congress...jobs in this country seem to matter little...I have to wonder what is going to happen when the middle class..those on social security and the poor , can no longer afford to buy what gives the wealthy their profits ? We are becoming a third world nation with the huge help of our politicans...and the wealthy in their push for profits and their greed. The tax cuts pushed for by Bush to create jobs created none...unless you consider the ones that went to other countries. So, in truth, what are the democraters and republicans and their tea party really pushing for ? Time will tell....

"The payroll tax holiday has not stimulated job creation. We don't think that is a good way to do it. Before the end of the year, we will have discussions about what we're going to do on all these different programs," - Kyl

But I thought that the republicans have always said that "cutting taxes" creates jobs, but now, they will be against it because Obama is for it.

Get ready for the "deregulation creates jobs" from the republicans.

Magnum Serpentine

... Thats how this supercommittie came about in the first place, Coward Obama rolled over and let the Republican'ts have the Committie.

Magnum, do you understand the separation of powers? President Obama has no...zero control over what Congressional Committees are established. While to the best of my knowledge there has never been a committee established by Congress with the kind of mandate the Super Committee had, you have to consider how ineffective this Congress is. This committee was established to "kick the can down the road" because we don't have nearly enough adults in Congress.

Good point at 2.24, Eric. Unfortunately Conservatives, in their Ayn Rand-induced haze believe only tax cuts for the rich create jobs. Tax breaks for the rest of us create "freeloaders." Freeloading is only OK if you're wealthy.

Wow! Liberals are really open-minded. Anyone with a different opinion than yours, is not worth reading, apparently. So, go ahead and enjoy unemployment, hate anyone who makes more money than you, and worship Obama, who does not listen to his own Secretary of Defense regarding the military. What a fantastic president you worship. He's so smart to keep spending money and our unemployment rate does not budge! No wonder you are in awe of this savior. It was a really funny little joke he told, when he said there really was no such thing as "shovel ready" jobs - right before he asked for more money. You can tax all the rich people in America, and it only makes up for one month's debt. We are in too far.

OK - go ahead and collapse this, because it does not fit in with your thinking.

Did you have a point, Amazed, or are you just throwing out a flurry of tired Conservative talking points to deflect from the refusal of Republicans to govern responsibly?

lets hope obama's veto pen is handy

Lets hope Obama has the spine to use his Veto Pen, instead of running away like he has always done in the past.

That pen better be ready. The Repubs remind me of a fighter letting their guard down and just begging to be knocked out. They're so vulnerable right now that the Dems should not waste these opportunities. Then again, maybe they'll just let them self destruct. Either way, it's a win for the working people of this nation.

"Borrow and Spend of the Repugnants is much better than Demoncraps Spend then realize that there is no more money in the wallet or purse while standing at the Cashier and having to implement Austerity measures or increase Taxes."

You do realize that there's no money because the Borrow and Spend Republicans gave it all to the wealthy and Wall Street, don't you? So you want to cut out health care for the 99% to protect tax cuts for the 1%? You'd better hope you can find a job making at least $550k/year or you're screwed like the rest of us by that sort of thinking.

If I were to chop something it would be the unfunded wars the Republicans are so certain we must continue.

I am a total independent but give me a tax and spend anything, it is much better than the borrow and spend policies of the republican party. Tax and spend is the conservative way to run a country. Spen and borrow is a ponzi scheme.

Proud to be Liberal,

Once again there is no sense like your nonsense.

The US Economy is in a $60 Trillion to $100 Trillion "Global Economic Crisis" consisting of the "Mortgage Crisis", "Wall Street Crisis", "Financial Crisis", "Banking Crisis", "Credit Crisis", etc. because the US Laws that made Illegal the Causes of the 1907 Depression and 1929-1939 Great Depression were removed 1999 and 2000.

So ask yourself WHY HASN'T PRESIDENT OBAMA REINSTATED THESE US LAWS ! ! ! TO GET THE US OUT OF THE CURRENT DEPRESSION (identical indicators as the Global Great Depression).

As far as Health Care Reform, even President FDR knew that the MAIN Cause of expensive Health Care was due to the Insurance Corporations. Just like stated by President Obama, Face the Nation, September 20, 2009, that the Insurance Companies that manage Medicare are padding their costs (Fraud) to make profits of $17 Billion to $18 Billion each year as paid for by the US Taxpayers (President Obama says "Uncle Sam").

SO ASK YOURSELF WHY DIDN'T PRESIDENT OBAMA FIX THIS WITH HIS HEALTH CARE REFORM ACT. INSTEAD OF REWARDING THE CRIMINAL INSURANCE CORPORATIONS WITH $67 BILLION AND MANDATORY INSURANCE PURCHASES (More suckers for the Insurance Corporations to deny Medical Treatments and place into the High Risk Unaffordable Premium Category).

As far as where the money Borrowed Money went why don't you go look up the Loans to GM, Chrysler, and what the money was actually used for (hint: Retirements, and Life Long Cadillac Health Care for Union Workers, that was supposed to be paid for by Union Dues, instead those Union Dues went into the pockets of the Rich Union Bosses.). Go look at the US Congressional Testimony.

As far as the TARP Money that was given to President Obama's Buddy "Mr. Corporate America" constituents and major campaign contributors (Demoncraps), I previously warned all of you about "Mr.Corporate America":

(My List from 2005) Delaware: Freddie Mac, Fanny Mae, Bank of America, Wilmington Trust, First USA / Bank One / JPMorgan Chase, AIG, Citigroup, Deutsche Bank, Barclays plc, GM, Chrysler, Wachovia, ExxonMobil, Chevron, ISDA, and those States with Corporations Incorporated.

STOP BEING SO LAZY GO RESEARCH WHO PRESIDENT OBAMA'S BUDDY "MR. CORPORATE AMERICA" IS. "Mr. Corporate America" makes the Koch Brothers and Bernie Madoff look like two cent gangstas.

Proud to be Liberal - So you want to cut out health care for the 99% to protect tax cuts for the 1%? You'd better hope you can find a job making at least $550k/year or you're screwed like the rest of us by that sort of thinking.

More emotive nonsense opinions. ASK YOURSELF WHY PRESIDENT OBAMA DID NOT IMPLEMENT WHAT THE LONG TIME ADVOCATE FOR HEALTH CARE REFORM, SENATOR KENNEDY WANTED, that happened to be like President FDR's Universal Health Care for All US Citizens, by getting the Insurance Corporations out of the Medical Profession, RESULT US Citizens pay $50 per month for Unlimited Medical Treatments.

And instead of penis envy (rich envy) why don't you figure out how to be the next Steven Jobs, Bill Gates, etc.. Who do you think invests (Risks) money into Businesses to make more money.... YOU, HA HA HA. Just like I risked my own money to start my own Business, YOU DID NOT RISK MONEY ON MY BUSINESS so you EARNED NOTHING.

You are starting to act like this:

http://www.greyfuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/obama_tax_money1.jpg

Why don't you live at a Communist Nation where Redistribution of Wealth (and Property) is routine.

ANSWER THE QUESTIONS WHAT ARE PRESIDENT OBAMA'S MOTIVES FOR NOT DOING THOSE THINGS THAT HISTORICALLY WERE PROVEN TO WORK. And don't use the lame excuse that the Repugnants blocked him.

Answer this question, why do you want the US to become like what Kurt Vonnegut warned everyone about in 1961 with his book "Harrison Bergeron".

I honestly think that the Rich Movers and Shakers, Rich US and Foreign Investors, Corporate Executives, etc. MUST do a "Who Is John Galt", leaving the US Politicians, Idealists, Academics and people like you wondering what the f**k happened as everything at the US comes to a screeching halt. Go read Ayn Rand's 1957 Book "Atlas Shrugged". As to what partially happened to England during their "Tax the Rich", "Rich Pay Their Fair Share".

How about this blame the Failed US Education System for your lack of cognitive skills. As well as not teaching you those Real World Survival Skills.

Proven to work? Actually, any and all of FDR's programs for the most part kept the economy from going down further. The war is what got us out.

And the Communism/Penis Envy/Failed US Education system/most of your "argument" is really invalid in this case.

So ask yourself WHY HASN'T PRESIDENT OBAMA REINSTATED THESE US LAWS ! ! !

Because Conservative Republicans in Congress have prevented the reinstatement of these laws. The John Birch Society/Ayn Rand agenda of the Conservative Movement is a dismal failure. Now you can stop shouting and go to work getting rid of Republicans and holding Democratic feet to the fire in order to do what's necessary.

check your facts THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE BORROW SPEND PARTY the first two years under obama the democrat party controlled both the house and the senate , increased our national debt by %50 , the democrat senate has refused every spending cut the republican house has put forward , the democrat senate and obama has refused every jobs bill the republican house has put forward , These are Private sector jobs that amount to from 1 million to 2 million permanent jobs not the wishy washy temporary jobs the democrats and obama wants that will only last about 8 months to maybe a year paid for with borrowed money that will take the tax payers about ten years to pay off ,

JEEZ MAN TAKE THE BLINDERS OFF check out the facts , real data real statistics evidence proof in the pudding etc

There aren't a lot of things you can depend on. One of them is, if you see or hear someone use the Joe McCarthy term "Democrat Party" for the Democratic Party everything afterward will be nonsense. The nation's fiscal standard was destroyed by the Ayn Rand-inluenced Supply Side Economics that Conservatives so revere;

First Reagan increased the debt by $1.9 Trillion (see for yourself). Then Bush brought that to $3.4 Trillion. Then all that started collected interest for the next 17 years, and with compounding that grew to $8.2 Trillion by Sept. 30, 2010. Clinton, Bush II and Obama are not to blame for that interest, and without it, Clinton would have paid off most of the $1 Trillion WWII debt that Reagan scared us with to get elected. And Bush II (and his supply siders) would have run up only $3.8 Trillion — not $6.1T, which is what actually happened under Bush II. (A clear proof of this with document links.)

Before the supply siders, Dems and Repubs brought the debt down relative to our income in 27 out of 35 years. The supply siders (with Reagan and the Bushes) raised it 20 out of 20 years. That's no accident.
The Supply-Sider's Hoax: Bush-I called it voodoo economics (but he got stuck with it). Their "theory" is that cutting taxes for the super rich will encourage them to work so much harder and make so much more money that they will pay more taxes, even though their tax rate went down. Well the voodoo didn't work in 20 out of 20 years. And now they want to try it again. And they've scared America again about the debt. It's easier now that they've run it through the roof.
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

thanks for the real facts john b,

Why is it ok with you liberals to cut defense, but everything else is sacred? Why not do away with some of the different programs that do the same thing, but have different names? Why not look at the the Mack-Penny plan which would put us in balance in 7 years? I'll bet if it was name the Pelosi-Penny plan all you libs would think it was the greatest thing ever. As for Kyl and Toomey they may be what you say, but you left out Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Biden, etc. They are politicians, that is what they do.

It is actually a bit worse than that. The projected budget for defense will be rising faster than the cuts per year.

So in a sense, it is not even really a cut, it is only slowing the fore casted growth rate.

Also, they can and most likely will just pass another military spending bill in the next few years.

Why are you republicans so ready to cut anything but the defense, a department that can't account for billions already?

Why is it ok with you liberals to cut defense, but everything else is sacred?

Perhaps I can explain that one for you - and it's NOT JUST LIBERALS who want defense cuts. I'm to the right of Michael Savage and Pat Buchanan:

You see, the rest of us working slobs in the PRIVATE sectors (like the biotech industry- which I work- and also health care workers) and the PUBLIC sector (you know; POLICE OFFICERS, FIREFIGHTERS, TEACHERS, HIGHWAY PERSONNEL) have had to deal with cuts, so NOW it's DEFENSE'S TURN. We've been getting cuts in the neck and have been sh1t on since the recession began, SO GUESS WHO'S NEXT?!!!

Secondly, maybe DEEP (I mean VERY deep) cuts in military spending will HOPEFULLY compel us to end this "nation bombing and rebuilding" and the perpetual "nation invasion with no justification" lunacy, once and for all.

Glad I could help you with that.

Shelia,

Thats actually tens of Trillions of Dollars unaccounted for. Most probably those tens of Trillions are tied up in top secret compartment Black Box Projects.

I bet when we cut the Military to 50 Billion, We will suddenly have tens of Trillions of Dollars for Schools, Hospitals Social Security etc. And of course a ton of questions for the Military Industrial Complex as to what they were doing with all that money.

Seems a lot of you people must have had your heads in the sand for most of your lives. You use your cute little names to insult the party your not for. You must really think it makes a difference, Democrat, Republican. I've seen many administrations of both parties come and go and if you stop drinking your parties Cool Aid you quickly become aware of one fact. It doesn't matter who's in office. You can count on one thing, your money will be wasted one way or another and mostly to buy the next election. People can have thier "occupy" movements and they will continue to be mostly ignored, except by the media. The change needs to be made in Washington. That is the root of the problem. That won't happen until the people march on Washington and demand election reform and an end to the eletists who control our lives. The ones who don't ever make any sacrifices and live forever off the taxpayers teat.

Once again those with no facts, and only posting emotive opinions that belong on personal blogs, not Newsvine Forums to discuss the facts "Get Smarter Here".

How about repeating the same mistakes again and expecting a different result, like:

US Military Defense Budget Cuts with the result of the longtermed US Army Corps of Engineer Projects/Programs at the US no longer funded (not done); like when US Congress previously chopped the US Military Defense Budget resulting in the upgrades, rebuilding, modifications, retrofits, etc. of the Levees at New Orleans prior to Katrina. So when US Congress tried to blame the US Army Corps of Engineers during the US Congressional Katrina Hearings the US Army Corps of Engineers Military Officer threw the blame right back at the US Congressional Representatives that YOU hired (so it is YOUR Fault, deaths at New Orleans). The previous US Military Defense Budget Cuts resulted in the US Army Corps of Engineers not having the money to do routine dredging of US Streams and US Rivers, and building more water reserviors (or dredging them, more water storage capacity) resulting in the Flooding and current droughts at the US.

Like I said before most of you do not even know what the US Military Defense Budget is or is not. Especially, since 92% of US Citizens NEVER Served in the US Military. And it is your Responsibility as a US Citizen to do the Research and not me continually having to spoon feed you (I refuse to change your diapers later).

Clint357,

A Reference for your arguement (no difference between Repugnants, Demoncraps, In Depends (Adult Diapers), Scrotums (Tea Baggers)):

The monetary Fact. That our Politicians sold their souls and are selling out the US Citizens.

Sorry, Politicians' Dance Cards Are Full

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/21/ftn/main6228685.shtml?tag=cbsnewsTwoColUpperPromoArea

Clint357 - That won't happen until the people march on Washington and demand election reform and an end to the eletists who control our lives.

Does not matter right now, as President Obama and his buddy "Mr. Corporate America" defeated the US Law, McCain Feingold Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act. President Obama's buddy "Mr. Corporate America" Legal Briefed the US Supreme Court prior to the Citizens United Case, in that due to his violations of US Law prior to and during the 2008-2009 Elections, McCain Feingold Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act, the US Supreme Court would either have to Rule in Favor of Unlimited Corporate Campaign Contributions or Rule the 2008-2009 Elections invalid. So the US Supreme Court already had their minds made up even before the Citizens United Case was heard. After the US Supreme Court Ruling in favor of the Unlimited Corporate Campaign Contributions President Obama's Buddy "Mr.Corporate America" was slapped on the wrist with a fine of $200,000.

As far as the "Elitists" does that mean that you agree that the Elitists of the Electoral College as well as the Electoral College must be eliminated. As argued by the Founding Fathers in favor of establishing the Electoral College, "The average Citizen is too ignorant to determine the Highest Offices of the Land, President and Vice President".

That baloney arguement about the Electoral College and small States, small Populations, is only to placate the uneducate population, as we are talking about the Offices of the President and Vice President that are supposed to represent all US Citizens. And there is the fact that the Electoral College is defeated by Gerrymandering, and have also proven that they can be bought (Demoncraptic Party Controlled US Congress passes the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) as "Time Sensitive" (no Public Scrutiny) November December 2008, just in time to buy the January 2009 Electoral College Votes (reference Businessweek article listing the Physical Locations of TARP Recipients, correlation to the Electoral College Votes). Yes, Bush got some too:

(From Businessweek article):

8. University Park, Texas
Share population in finance and real estate: 18.83%
Nearest large city: Dallas
Population: 24,582
Median Household Income: $110,976

The only means that I can think of to get rid of these Professional Politicians, would be as I stated in previous Newsvine Forum (different topic). The most important is to at Random like Jury Duty (with vetting) select our Representatives. Other would be term limits, salary of the national average of the Middle Class, benefits like the US Military that end upon completion of Civic Duty (that includes Income Tax Withholding, deductions for TriCare (Medical), deductions for Social Security, etc.), Votes of No Confidence, Lobbyists and Special Interests (no matter what they call themselves) 100% Illegal and Enforced (criminal prosecution of Politicians associated with them, mandatory prison time with the General Population (not a privilaged prison resort)) as a "Crime Against the US Citizens and US Government", after completion of service returned to where they came from (good job their neighbors (peers) happy, bad job their neighbors will "take care" of them), etc..

Like I said before most of you do not even know what the US Military Defense Budget is or is not

Well, David;

Please enlighten us with this fact: how much of the DOD budget has ended up in Dickless Cheney and/or Haliburton's bank account over the past ten years?????

No need to be to the penney, a ballpark amount will suffice.

Not as stupid as yo uthink,

You do realize that there are over 3,000 US Contractors, with some making more than Halliburton, KBR, and XE combined.

And instead of me spoon feeding you the answers, you might want take a look at the US Congressional Hearings Transcripts, and a GAO Investigation Report.

Why is everybody just talking about marching on Washington demanding reform instead of doing it? Stop complaining and tell us how to get organized. PErson by person, by state and then nationally. AT least Occupy is trying to do something. I do know we all have to start calling, writing, dropping in on the leaders of our individual states and make our opinions known. Who out there is actually trying to do something besides sit anonymously at your computer and biotching!! Speak up, bring up real ideas to get us organized as the people of Americas' party instead of Dem. or REpub.!! Come on, bring it, lets hear real ideas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OR is this all this site is for??

I see the payroll tax cuts as a tax transfer from those that can least afford to pay for it (The Middle class Americans) to those that can well afford an increase, (The Wealthy Americans)

After all, for forty/fifty years it's been tax breaks for the richest while cutting programs for the average person... Increased budgets for wars to kill people, while cutting health care programs for the sick and dying...

Cutting the "defense" budget (it has been the OFFENSE budget since Bush) will make us SAFER.

The GOP and the military-industrial complex is still fighting Korea. They lost Vietnam because they were fighting Korea and 9/11 was BECAUSE we were still fighting Korea.

There are no Hard Power wars any more - large conventional military engagements. It all relates to SOFT POWER. You try to get people to NOT HATE YOU. They they don't fight you. Simple, really, The military calls it "hearts and minds" but they can't do it. You DO NOT WIN WITH GUNS. You win with HELP and AID.

Make the defense budget ZERO. Put all the money into HELPING PEOPLE.

WE WILL BE SAFER!!!

You do realize that there are over 3,000 US Contractors...

Yes.

Do YOU know how many of the top 10 are Haiburton or its subsidiaries?

You do know that KBR is one of the top Haliburton subsidiaries don't you, along with several others? And have you investigated which contractors receieve the most "no bid" contracts?

Guess who is at the top....

so they make a rule then when they fail they want to change the rules. what kinda crap is that? they failed now they should reap the benefits of failing. if you fail at your job then you get fired so let's fire them. and any way this is good because it will cut the defense budget that is way to bloated. this cow needs to be slaughtered. our defense is to big. cut the damn thing.

dji, it's just testament to the fundamental dishonesty of the Conservative Movement. Cheaters are all about the rules...they don't follow the rules themselves, they use the rules to give themselves an advantage over others.

I bet when we cut the Military to 50 Billion, We will suddenly have tens of Trillions of Dollars for Schools, Hospitals Social Security etc. And of course a ton of questions for the Military Industrial Complex as to what they were doing with all that money.

Stop, think and listen -- everytime we cut the military, we also put thousands of healthy young, ambitious men out of work. What do you with excess soldiers when they come back to unemployment and reduced opportunities?

Sooooo, you're saying that government spending creates jobs?

What do you with excess soldiers when they come back to unemployment and reduced opportunities?

what do you do with all the other government workers when you throw them out on the street and nobody is hiring? what do you do when already profoitable companies simply lay off people to boost their stock price and get a bigger overkill bonus for the CEO? and those laid-off workers can't find jobs

p111, there are liars, there are damn liars and then there's you, a statistician.

p111 for the future you do know that the far left is communist and the far right is fascist.the nationalist party was socialist in name only

p111 said:

Facts trump fascist propaganda every time.

Exactly. Which makes me wonder why you are conveniently forgetting so many facts to come up with your ignorant conclusions. Oh I see, because you are an intellectually challenged moron. LOL, carry on.

Average Bush/republican caused unemployment 10%, average Obama/democrat caused unemployment 0%.

David, I'd like to know where this information comes from. I don't take anything as fact until I check it out myself, no matter how knowledgeable you may sound (although the name calling makes you sound more like a child). I tried to look up information on President Obama's Patriot Act, and the only thing I found was that he signed a one year extension of Bush's Patriot Act (against the wishes of liberals, and the Republicans used a filibuster to stop them from making government accountable for their searches). I seriously would like to know so I can look it up myself.

LA99999 - David, I'd like to know where this information comes from. I don't take anything as fact until I check it out myself,

FINALLY. That is all I ask, for people to do their own Research.

To find out more about the President Obama Patriot Acts, you must first Research House of Representatives (H.R.) 1955 and Senate (S) 1959. Then to get the other parts is more difficult, you can start with the US Supreme Court Records, first with the Material Support to Terrorist Organizations, the actual US Supreme Court Records for this includes the entire President Obama January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts (plural)(you will not be able to see the classified sections). Then you can compare the content to President Bush's Patriot Act (singular).

When you get a hold of all the documents (usually in pdf format) you will get the full picture in relation to the revised Insurrection Act, as to what we (US Military) will have to do, Deadly Force against US Citizens, if ordered by Presidential Executive Order under threat of Summary Executions. The H.R.1955 and S.1959 were basically a "Rough Draft" of part of President Obama's Patriot Acts (already sitting on his desk for signature just after the inauguration ceremony), some parts of President Bush's Patriot Act (singular) were retained ("Extended"). The classified sections of President Obama's Patriot Acts are accessable within the US only thru US NORTHCOM and ODNI (while at D.C., I never saw the classified sections even at the Pentagon). Some of the Classified Sections "Intent" not word for word, can be seen at the US Department of State Internet Site (Pertaining to Terrorist Safe xxxxxx xxx xxxxx xxx xxxx xxx xx xxxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxxx etc. very long title.). (I am kind of sticking my neck out after that wikileaks thing).

Thank you, David. I will do some research. Sounds a bit tricky so wish me luck.

:D

OK, voted best comment today. Thanks John, LMAO

10% Will be fine for starters.

Those who live in fear only need to be hyper-vigilant in every situation.

ooo how scary.by all means lets take away poor and elderly peoples food and medicine.whats needed is a 12625 nuclear missile and 83rd nuclear submarine.we better hurry too cause russia is building an 84th nuclear submarine.how ridiculous

Yea, Sure the Big Bad wolve will come and get us, they own America already so grow a Brain, the reason those countries are building their Armies is We can't keep our nose out of other countries affairs ....

China is not a military threat. All they have to do is sell off their T-bills and our economy collapses, without a single shot fired. THAT ought to be what we fear from China, not their puny military.

america has the most deadliest weapon the the world, namely "politics"... washington politics have been killing americans every day...forcing people into proverty, depriving citizens of work, food and medical help...taking their homes and taxing non-income people. if washington can destroy its own people, image what it will continue to do to the world!

Sure, let's keep building up our military at the expense of everything else. Not only will that keep us looking like the banana republic we're aspiring to these days, but its also the same winning strategy that made the Soviet Union what it is today. Cheers!

Oh and once we have a military twice as large as the other parts of the whole world put together, then we can put someone like Michelle Bachmann or Rick Perry, or Herman Cain, or Ron Paul or Newt Gingrich or Mitt Romney or any of the republican wackos in charge. Won't that be lovely?

@p111 - first there is NO SUCH THING as Obamacare. Now explain how the new Health Care Plan will bankrupt the country. All you PUBs scream about the new Health Care Plan but NONE of you can actually, factually state what is wrong with it.

Why don't you tell us?

Oh For God's sake Flying armed. Our Military budget is 10 times that of China and Russia combined. What is the matter with your people? Our Military do without armor vests while Halliburton has 800 million fraudulent charges 'excused". This country could balance the deficit in 10 years just by cutting corruption and graft by Military contractors.

Deborah there is so much sheit in that plan that has nothing to do with healthcare it isn't funny. How did changing the structure of student loans (in the bill) affect healthcare and it's costs? There is sooooo much more. I suggest you find a breakdown of all the "rules" and laws in it and see that it is just a coverup for a bunch of distorted "take care of you" crap.

I come from a long line of family in military service - dating all the back to WW2, which includes my service in the United States Marine Corps and my wife's service in the U.S. Navy. I have lived around the world, from Europe to Asia, met many fantastic people, and learned an important aspect about our military - it is respected because it is feared. It is feared because of our technological advantage and our war-fighting spirit. Russia and China are still 15 - 20 years behind our technology - which by the way, we keep advancing on a yearly basis.

Karl von Clausewitz once said, "The majority of people are timid by nature, and that is why they constantly
exaggerate danger. All influences on the military leader, therefore, combine to give him a false impression of his opponent's strength, and from this arises a new source of indecision."

The more we exaggerate the importance of Russia, China and other antagonist, we give our leaders unneeded fuel to focus more on defense spending rather than identify current capabilities and deficiencies and how that's associated with the current state of our country's economy. We need to understand our strength as a nuclear power, and that we are the only military superpower to have recent combat exposure. We have tested our weapons and tactics, lessons learned, and with this new found knowledge will be better prepared for our next conflict.

Today's U.S. military service-member is better educated, better trained in the areas of weapons and tactics and can react to change faster then their predecessors. In their own right they are fantastic "multi-taskers." Our service-members are encouraged to be "free thinkers" and to be creative on the battlefield and they are given the ability to make serious, yet critical decisions at such a young age that their counterparts in Vietnam, Korea, and WW2 could not possibly think of nor grasp. This allows for a maturation of war-fighting capability that's unprecedented.

So I'll leave you with this - why build an expensive ship such as the Ronald Reagan (at the cost of $5 Billion) only for it to get beat with a weapon system such as the Exocet anti-ship missile, that costs only a few million?

We all need to prioritize our finances and we need to think of taking care or own people first. Failure to take care of our own "house" is more destructive than any think Russia or China can do. Just read your civil war history.

I acknowledge the fact that we need money for a strong defence - but I seriously think we can pare it down without fully degrading our capabilities. And lets not forget - we still have nukes - that's a pretty damned good deterrent to me!

p111 isn't worth listening to. he/she is just regurgitating what rush told them to fear. No facts, just a fat man worried about his money.

"FlyingArmed

Oh, yes, cut, cut and cut the military, and then cut some more. Meanwhile, China and Russia build, build and build. Believe me, if we do cut our defenses, which are already spread out over the globe, you're all going to be crying about it in the not too distant future. Can't cut entitlement spending now--including the monstrosity of Obamacare--but we sure can cut defense . . . ignorant dumb asses."

The one thing that has been overlooked in this discussion is that there will not be any cuts to defense, as a result of the failure of the super committee. The cuts will be in the INCREASES to the defense budget over the next 10 years, and not to the actual budgets.

Even this ignorant dumb ass understands that. But I guess you will never understand, no matter how many times and by whom, it is explained to you. Go ahead and stick your head back into the sand. You have nothing to contribute to this discussion.

Is there some reason why we need to spend as much on Defense as THE REST OF THE WORLD, 4 times as much as #2, especially when 15 of the next largest 17 are OUR ALLIES?

China's that hard to fix country that the Republicans will continue to use as a scare tactic. If Republicans think China is such a threat, why don't they work with Democrats and the rest of the sane world and put the ultimate pressure on China and make their currency adjust like the rest of the world. Real serious pressure. Once China is in tune with the rest of the world, building an advance military would be almost impossible for them. Equal growth size at the least. Then again, why would Republicans give up such tactic for good of the rest of us.

Talk to the hand,

Your comments have nothing to do with the point that Deborah was making. The question is still out there, "Now explain how the new Health Care Plan will bankrupt the country." Anyone???

Talk to the hand

You Need to look up the bill and Read IT....I have. Your ignorance is Stunning!

Once again those that have no facts post garbage.

ltcommander72 - 10% Will be fine for starters.

Go talk to President Obama's Secretary of Defense, Leon Penetta, about what he thinks about 10% Defense Budget Cuts.

deborah-3074274 - @p111 - first there is NO SUCH THING as Obamacare. Now explain how the new Health Care Plan will bankrupt the country.

Not Budgeted $1.7 Trillion to $2.1 Trillion cost of President Obama's Health Care Reform Act, as the current Budget Deficit. As the Demoncraps Spend and not have the money to pay, versus the Repugnants Borrow and Spend.

The Demoncraps at a Restaurant:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7382567n&tag=mncol;lst;7

Double_Jeopardy

Which TP are you suggesting would be the best bet? There's Cain who is a wealthy businessman who's in Norquist's pocket (signed the pledge), there's Bachman who's taking government money through subsidies as well as government healthcare and who's in Norquist's pocket, there's Perry who is in with the Pharm company and is also in Norquist's pocket. All of the candidates have signed their soul over to Norquist EXCEPT Huntsman. Oh, and BTW, look up Norquist and his ties to the Muslim world. It's easy, just check out Wikipedia (and you can verify it at other sites). How ironic that all the Republicans think the Muslims are the enemy, yet almost their entire party has pledged their allegiance to a man who has a Muslim-born wife and a number of ties to Muslim people and organizations!

david,

Although I find most of your post's intriguing, I find your view in this case lacking that both sides have arguably good positions. First, your comment regarding the current Secretary of Defense. What would you expect him to say? It's his budget, of course he doesn't want it cut. What head of any Department would want budget cuts? However, the fact is our wars are ceasing and finally coming to an end. The military will be downsizing drastically once this is completed or it should. His statement's provided no factual data to back up his claim beyond R&D. And we all know how much waste is there. (I watched his testimony when he went before the committee broadcast by PBS)

I guess it was all right when the Republicans started two wars that were unfunded and are finally a part of the current deficit. No, they didn't borrow to pay them off. To a tune of $1.469 Trillion dollars. (2002-Jan.,2009) Nor has the Bush Medicare Drug program been paid for yet. Another $220 billion dollars included in the current deficit. While we lost revenue totalling $1.812 Trillion dollars from the Bush Tax cuts which is also considered a deficit. (2002-Jan.,2009)

I agree the $1.7 Health Care program (Projected cost) will be in our future deficits for sure, and hopefully it can be fined tuned so that projection doesn't become a reality.

So in closing it is just not the Democrats who spend and can't pay for it, but also the Republicans who spend and don't pay for it. All our deficits include some type of financing by selling Bonds (which is considered borrowing). No difference which party does the spending. It all ends up in the deficit eventually.

Lastly, I would not look down on or refer to people as posting garbage. There is no need when debating someone whether you feel "superior" or not. Have a good night.

!

David, I'm afraid you miss the big picture. You state:

Not Budgeted $1.7 Trillion to $2.1 Trillion cost of President Obama's Health Care Reform Act, as the current Budget Deficit. As the Demoncraps Spend and not have the money to pay, versus the Repugnants Borrow and Spend.

Can you tell us how much is projected for healthcare costs over the next 25 years? Baby boomers are reaching the Medicare age and there will be a giant influx of patients over that period of time. Compound that with these two facts: 1. people are living longer and, thus, requiring more healthcare expense and it is projected to increase; 2. Medicare is basically insolvent (having been spent elsewhere over the years) without major stop-gap manipulation. Therefore, national Healthcare Reform - what you inaccurately term "Obamacare" - was and is mandatory.

President Obama deserves to be applauded for initiating a program, something recognized as necessary since the Reagan era but thought to be difficult if not impossible to do. The program initiated was amended by opponets (those supporting future profits for the health/drug conglomerates) to the point it is hardly recognizable from the orininal plan, but it is a plan nonetheless and a first step in the correct direction; something mandatory to avoid the debilitaing future healthcare costs/expenses we would otherwise face under the old Medicare programs. Yes, it will need to be tweaked, reformed and improved over time, but we must have the National Healthcare Reform Act period!

I wonder if you and the others on the "hands off my healthcare" bandwagon have considered these facts. That "hands off..." promotion against the President's initiative was organized and funded by the very people who stand to profit from the staus quo - wealthy, drug manufacturers, care providers, etc. - part of the 1% OWS is currently protesting, and they successfully sold their sales pitch of "hands off" to enough people that the country was divided. All hype, but some remain on that false bandwagon.

I wish all on it would open their eyes, employ some critical thinking, cease taking the talking points they hear from Rush, Fox news, etc. as fact, and realize the bill of goods the greedy, wealthy 1% are selling. Our future economy would be in MUCH, MUCH worse shape if we do NOT have national healthcare reform.

@ Double Jeopardy - you wasted a lot of space with that pile of bile you've posted. If we're so feared, as you say, why have we been stymied buy rag-tag militia type units using guerilla warfare tactics for the past 50 years? Vietman - we were basically run out by malnourished soldiers using weapons from WW I. Iraq and Afghanistan by homemade explosive devices. No, this has not been the citizen army that saved the world from fascist dictators in 1945. More like imperialists determined to exploit lesser nations for commercial gains of a very few people at the expense of our soldiers lives. It's folks like you that swallow the bs put forward by those few people, that tell you that you are saving freedom. Get a grip, man. Life is not a John Wayne movie.

Not as Stupid, thanks for your post. I would have liked to see a single payer system, and I believe we will eventually get there, but people are too blind to see the need. It makes me laugh and yet makes me angry at the same time whenever I hear someone who was ranting against healthcare reform now ranting that their insurance payment went up, or won't cover a prescription or procedure, or has a huge deductible (many say it's because of reform, but clearly it's been a problem for years). I also get upset that my elderly parents seem to have an issue with their company each year, and it's usually a mistake in the insurance company's records, which has left my parents wondering if they have coverage at all. We rank low in overall healthcare out of developed nations yet we pay twice as much per capita as the country with the next highest amount. Our employers have to spend countless amounts of money as well as hours on insurance matters to keep us covered yet we can't understand why they don't pay us more. We're afraid to leave a job because we might lose our health coverage. I know a number of people who could retire but need the insurance (a job which could go to someone unemployed) and I'm sure there are a lot of others who would maybe try going into business for themselves if it weren't for loss of healthcare. We say we don't want government in our business, but apparently it's ok for your employer to know all about your health history, not to mention someone sitting in an office deciding if they should consent to your treatment or say no so they can make a larger profit. It seems to me we would have so much more freedom if we didn't need to worry about our healthcare. Please someone, explain the logic to me!

Not as stupid as yo uthink - David, I'm afraid you miss the big picture.

Try again. Seems you missed the Big Picture.

How about this, argue against something that previously Worked, then ask yourself why didn't President Obama do the same so that US Citizens would be paying $50 for Unlimited Medical Treatments like long time proponent of Universal Health Care Senator Kennedy (RIP) wanted.

And I NEVER said "Hands off My Health Care", I want something that has been proven to Work. Not something that might work. We already know that the Insurance Corporations are going to start jacking up their Insurance Premiums to cover any future losses.

As before the Insurance Corporation got involved with the US Military Health Care, the US Military Personnel and their Dependents paid NOTHING. Everything was handled internal to the US Military thru the US Military Medical Service Corps (MSC). After the Insurance Corporations got involved now the US Military pay deductables, and a decreased level of Medical Treatments and Medical Care. This is something that I saw and experienced Firsthand. So when President Obama talked about the Insurance Corporations management of Medicare on Face the Nation, September 20, 2009, I started looking into the Insurance Corporations management of US Military TriCare and found the same things that President Obama stated about the Insurance Corporations padding their costs to make Billions of USDs per year in profits. So if President Obama knew that this was happening with all of the Government Medical Programs, why didn't he do something about this, even something small like refer the problem to the US Justice Department as Fraud. How can anyone complain about the Corporate Executives (hundreds of Millions) and completely ignore the Billions USDs of the Corporations (Insurance) being stolen from the US Citizens.

Did you even bother to watch the PBS Documentary "Obama's Deal".

Indepndent - I guess it was all right when the Republicans started two wars that were unfunded and are finally a part of the current deficit.

Try again. Ever since my involvement with the Middle East starting in the 1980s as a US Military Officer, I know who started the War at Iraq and it was not a Repugnant. And when you say "unfunded" nope, the US Laws passed by US Congress had US Congressional Appropriations. So nope not part of the current Budget Deficit. As a Fact it is US Congress's Job to find the money for the US Laws that they create.

As far as the projected cost of President Obama's Health Care Reform Act it is $2.1 Trillion. And the cost of $1.7 Trillion is not in the Future, that was included in the current Budget, as to why everyone is demanding a Budget Cut of $1.2 Trillion (they found $.5 Trillion elsewhere).

As far as irresponsibility of spending, yes, it is All those Politicians with many not even able to balance their own checkbooks or even pay their Income Taxes.

I think most of you don't understand what a "cut" means to Government. A "cut" means a smaller increase. Once you understand that, than you will know that no one is getting less, they are not getting as large an increase as they wanted. Now the next time you hear an official scream "cut" to scare you, you can tell them they are full of it.

Try again ...

ask yourself why didn't President Obama do the same so that US Citizens would be paying $50 for Unlimited Medical Treatments like long time proponent of Universal Health Care Senator Kennedy (RIP) wanted.

Get real David, and open your eyes.

It wasn't the President who didn't do this, but his GOP opposition changing and amending NHCR to protect their wealthy supporters.

Remember Bush's drug legislation? Same thing. The "1%" is powerful and manipulative.

If you truly want your ideas enacted, we must first get rid of the 1% supporters and Norquist pledgers; otherwise, they will not allow the status quo to change.

I suggest supporting OWS to begin; the protesters have gotten their attention and instilled some degree of fear or at least concern.

The only reason the don't call it a Depression is the wealthy and banks didn't take a hit. While the rest of us are trying to make ends met, they say we need to keep the tax cuts for the wealthy and job creators. Where are these jobs? How many of the large corporations have hired in the last decade?

Also this is just basic econ. Guns or butter. The GOP has always gone the way of guns (military). In their mind we have to always spend more to protect the country but don't need to justify the need.

And I'm thinking the richest among us just got richer during these horrible times too!! What a plan:(

Indeed these last three years the rich have gotten richer while the poor and middle class have been decimated. Who has run this country for the last three years tool!

And who wants to put the republicans back in charge with their failed policies on the economy. Let us dig ourselves out first republicans, then you can come in and mess it up again.

p111 tool of tools - did the world start over when Obama took over - not quite - the two useless wars @ 2.5 Trillion that was LEFT ON THE BOOKS by Bush, growing income disparity, high deficit, 700,000 jobs being lost monthly and on the rise, etc.

Come again TOOL.

Yes, there wasnt a Republican president for 20 yrs. after the great depression

Indeed these last three years the rich have gotten richer while the poor and middle class have been decimated, caused primarily to the illegal wars and the Bush tax cuts.

p111,

The rich have gotten richer while the middle class has gotten smaller and the poor have gotten poorer for the past 35 years.

the reason smoot hawley was passed was tariffs protect american jobs.you did know they were republicans.once upon a time republicans represented people that werent rich too.right now our tariff rate is about 1 percent.germanys is 19 percent.they have a 6 percent unemployment rate we have in the high teens.tariffs protect a develped countries standard of living.tariffs force corporations to hire americans.whats wrong with that

durt_bagg

Which party was in power when these occurred?

THE GREAT DEPRESSION 1929

BLACK FRIDAY 1987

THE GREAT RECESSION 2008

(hint: GOP)

Wrong answer: the democrats controlled Congress

Grover who? Let all the cuts expire.

youmean return to were 47% pay nothing? what do you think is fair 99% pay nothing

rizzo.so your all for increasing taxes on the poor.ok i can understand that point of view.how about a bottom rate of 5 percent on any money made progressing to a 90 percent tax on anything over a million like we had during the 50's when american was at its height of power and influence.a steeper progressive tax that includes everyone

All of a sudden it looks like the 50's. Europe and Japan are on the ropes. Russia isn't doing too hot. Oh, but Communist China is doing fine with those American jobs the rich took over there. Way to go republicans.

Rizzo -

Included in that 47% who pay nothing are most, if not all, of the 30 largest corporations in this country. These are the huge multi-national corporations that ship American jobs overseas. Also included in the 47% are many of the super-wealthy, who, like the big corporations, are adept at hiding their income. So, it's not just the poor and working poor who are exempt from paying Federal income taxes because their income is so low that make up the 47%. The right wing propaganda machines that use cable TV and talk radio to foment hate against the poor but fail to mention the abuses of the tax code by plutocrats and corporate tycoons to get out of paying taxes is a contributing factor to this myth that 47% of Americans shirk their responsibility to pay their taxes. All this does is to skillfully foment the "class warfare" meme and play it as the have nots wanting what the haves have. There are highly skilled wordsmiths that generate this mis-information with every intention of pitting Americans against Americans so that the ruling class maintains its power.

Grover NOrquist is the most destructive person this country has every seen. His hold over the repugs & baggers just amazes me, I sure hope they realize by signing that pledge, they can kiss their political career out the window, because their are more of us(OWS) than them, and believe me that is what is being talked about through this movement. By 2012 their will be very few repugs and hopefully zero crazy baggers in office.

The interesting thing to me is that this is the first time I have heard that the Bush cuts are permanent. According to Grover they were passed as temporary only to get them through due to procedural issues. I am actually not in favor of eliminating the Bush cuts for the wealthy. I am for eliminating them altogether for everyone. Those of us in the lower to moderate income brackets didn't gain much money from the cuts to begin with so I don't mind doing with a little less again if it will get this country back on track and the people who spent us into oblivion for 8 years shouldn't object either (I'm talking to you Dick "deficits don't matter" Cheney!) Finally, I am also fine with lowering marginal tax rates on INCOME at all levels if taxes on unearned income (dividends, capital gains, inheritance etc.) which are currently the lowest rates in the code but exclusively benefit the richest, are raised accordingly. Tax breaks should go to income before it goes to speculation and gambling.

And what is the problem with the corporations shipping jobs overseas to better workers? We used to be the best, but playing off on that same old tired story while the rest of the world passes us by doesn't do the people of the U.S. any favors. The problem is our entitlement culture leads us to believe that we are superior to citizens in other countries and that due to our superiority the jobs should stay here in the U.S. Unfortunately reality does not reflect our fantasy world. China, along with other developing countries, is simply out-competing us. But lets keep on sitting in parks whining and complaining about how we used to be the best in the world. It's kind of like watching a sports team that used to be really good, but hasn't won a playoff game in decades.

Rizzo, If you want poor people to pay more, There is an easy fix. Increase minimum wage to something above the poverty line, instead of leaving it below the poverty line. Then the working poor will pay some taxes. People like you want to keep everyone in poverty, then blame them because they can't afford to pay taxes? Nice.

p111,

Moreover, as history has shown lowering taxes has increased revenues, including the Bush tax cuts.

History shows no such thing, in fact, just the opposite. Cough up some proof of your position, or more easily, just stop with the lies.

What history shows is that the periods of highest taxation are also the highest periods of growth and booming economies.

It's been said by others many times before but I'll repeat it anyway, poor people don't create jobs, rich people do. The more difficult you make their lives the less jobs they will create. Obama has created so much uncertainty that no one is willing to spend.

Was Steve Jobs or Bill Gates rich when they created their companies? It is also constantly stated that the vast majority of new jobs are created by small businesses...not the wealthy.

Bill Gates and Steve Jobs didn't get rich until after they defrauded the people who developed the concepts of the mouse, and the windows operating system, of their intellectual property rights.

You can't become a multi-billionaire honestly. They are all crooks. Every last one of them.

Sonof....And you can back this up...HOW? People who just throw stuff out and act like it is fact should go back to school. The justice department cleared both men. Google and see.

I wonder why that so called 47% don't pay Taxes, could it be because they make so little money so the upper 1% can make more money, if that's the case then HELL yea the 1% should be paying a lot more ..... to make up the lose of the 47% that can't pay ....

I'm tired of hearing that old argument that the wealthy are the job creators. The job creators are the consumers. No matter how much money we give to the wealthy, they won't create jobs unless they spend it. And it seems to me they spend what they are used to and "invest the rest" That means anything extra is going to be helping themselves and other wealthy people (stockbrokers, etc). The poor and the middle class are spending everything they get. If we truly want to get back on track, let's stop giving all our money to Walmart and other huge corporations and try to frequent the smaller locally owned businesses. They will grow and create new jobs, and we don't have to worry about them going overseas. Better yet, try to find local businesses that use (or sell) American made products. It's difficult because it will cost more, and we are the ones who can't afford to pay more, but it's the only way I see that can fix things. Right now we are in a situation where we are buying from big companies because it's what we can afford, but that only helps the big companies and hurts the rest of us. We are pretty much screwed.

My brother-in-law earns 7 figure income and fights to keep the Bush tax cut but he hasn't created one job, nada. Don't go calling him a job creator. He loves those Koch brothers'/Fox News Kool-Aid drinkers.

Here comes the Republicans and their plan to raise taxes on the children and the retired (22% +20%). Stick it to them! Babies don't need a free ride, they need to get their skin in the game.

Seriously, does anyone buy this anymore?

gotta love those "tax the poor to feed the rich" clowns.

True Breeze, very true indeed.

They can start by closing that unnecessary tank factory (unnecessary according to the DOD) in Ohio - are you listening Mr. Boehner?

Palin 2112...very funny. I had to look twice at your name to get the joke.

Because the media is bought and paid for by the Republicans and Teaparty and lets not for get Grover Norquist.

True journalism is gone forever because no one has the guts to tell it like it really is!

China spends around $70 billion annually

What a coincidence. Because the military will be getting a increasing to there budget by 70 billion for 2012, not a cut. There only cutting the 180 billion raise there asking for by 110 billion. It's right here in this link.

http://nbcpolitics.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/23/8973188-fact-check-hyperbole-on-terror-interrogations

You must be a complete idiot!!! I wish you were right!! Almost!! as much as you are!! The rich are your rulers and if you are not the 1% you will be lost in this world, just like the rest of us!!! What a looser!!

What? Is communist china giving our jobs back? Where did you here that? Come on, tell us Jasperark.

Average Bush/republican unemployment 5%, average Obama/democrat unemployment 9% with no end in sight. The sooner we flush these socialist idiots in the senate and white house, the sooner we can get everybody back to work.

American sent politicians a message last Nov, republicans listened, democrats didn't. Ignore the voters at your own risk.

Where the hell are you getting those felonious numbers Pfffffft - you are an idot to be sure. Bush unemployment at 5% - LOL.

Take your TP and flush that down the toilet where it belongs.

The messages that was sent las November was promises and promises of Job Creation and what did everyone get - lies and lies.........................and now they ignore the MAJORITY of American people - they are history.

deborah

I think you better do research before you call others idiots. If you look under US Unemployment figures for the years 2002-2009 you will definitely see that unemployment reached lows of 5%. It skyrocketed in 2009. AGreed it did start in 2008. But those "felonious numbers" you scream about are actually real. see research and due diligence is NOT an asset of the liberals.

Get you school bag ready.......peanut and butter sandwich with your foot?

P111, will you just go away. Unemployment was skyrocketing long before Obama got into office. Just read the reports, or look at the charts if you have trouble with the big words.

Poor Republicans still can't admit they wer4e the ones who broke it and whine when the Dems can't fix it fast enough because the Republicans are standing in the way stamping their feet and pouting.

When Bush left office 800,000 jobs /mo were being lost. That's what Obama inherited.

The Truth about Job Creation under Obama and Bush

Submitted by Robert J. Shapiro,11/16/11

....Let's go to the numbers reported by the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS). In the first 33 months of George W. Bush's presidency, from February 2001 to October 2003, the number of Americans with private jobs fell by 3,054,000 or 2.74 percent. Perhaps Americans were too distracted by Osama bin Laden to pay attention, or everyone was lulled by the dependably strong job creation of the 1980s and 1990s. Whatever the reason back then, Americans are certainly paying attention to jobs now. Yet, few seem to have noticed that Barack Obama's jobs record has unquestionably been much better. In the first 33 months of his presidency, from February 2009 to October 2011, private sector employment fell by 723,000 jobs or 0.66 percent. That means that over the first 33 months of the two presidents' terms, jobs were lost at more than four times the rate under Bush as under Obama.

ndn.org/blog/2011/11/truth-about-job-creation-under-obama-and-bush

See what happens when you actually bother to look up the facts instead of relying on Faux propaganda?

America at risk,

Hope you can get some help for all that hate you seem to have bottled up. This is not a come-back or meant to be disrespectful. But you difinitely need some type of help which I hope you will seek out.

"Blame the idiots like Flame job Barney, Manslaughter Teddy, Nancy, Harry, Slick Willy WHO LIED under oath and thumbed his nose at our country (AND YOU LIBERALS LOVE THIS SCUM BAG) and DUMBAMA (The Liar in Chief)".

Wow America, very mature!

And as far as our favorite Muslim immigrant, are you referring to our President or the one your party all signed their allegience to, Norquist and his Muslim wife (that's right, look it up!)? He (Norquist) has a Muslim-born wife, has ties to Muslim organizations, even told his minions to lighten up on the NY Mosque as it was a distraction. So, what's better? To have a "Muslim immigrant" President or to have an entire party working for a Muslim?

Oh and BTW, although there is no proof that the President is Muslim and in fact there is all kinds of evidence against it, there is all sorts of proof that Norquist is tied to Muslim organizations. Just look it up if you dare. So stop throwing out all your propaganda because the more we are getting to know the head of the republican party the more we see that is against Republican beliefs.

You all are wasting so much freaking time on the blame game, Odumbo did this, Gingtrich did that, backstabbing, name calling crap!! What the hell does it matter they all screwed up DEMOCRATS and REPUBLICAN. THeir all out for the same thing POWER, MONEY, FAME, AND IMMUNITY FROM THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS. CAn you all stop bitching and hating on each other, pull your heads out and start doing something. WHATS YOUR PLAN?? HOW CAN WE ALL ORGANIZE AS 'WE THE PEOPLE' the party of "the citizens of America" demanding change, honesty, fairness for all..etc..etc..WHAT are anyone of you doing to change anything?? WHAT will you do besides sit anonymously at your computers and rant. COme up with some ideas' on how we organize, person by person, state by state and then nationally as the citizens demanding goverment change "for the people" "by the people" is that all just talk that sounds real nice or ARE WE GOING TO DO SOMETHING AS A NATION?????????????? At least the OCCUPY PEOPLE ARE TRYING!!! CALL,write,STOP BY, picket, PETITION!! STop BItching And Do SOmething!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, America at risk, if you had a degree in economics, like ONE of my degrees, or even a GED, you would understand that tax cuts cause shortfalls and wars aren't free.

storm36 -

So simple. So true.

right on

Or we get rid of the TP/GOP obstructionists and get our country back to work.

It is not even a cut in the existing budget . All it means is that increase in the defense budget in 2013 might not be as big as the DoD expected

It is not even a cut in the existing budget . All it means is that increase in the defense budget in 2013 might not be as big as the DoD expected

That's the truth. You can't call a increase a cut, unless you lie.

Budget cuts will be deflationary. The deficit of 1.5 trillion is funding 50 to 60 million jobs in America. We are borrowing to spend on consumer economy. These are all service sector jobs. Google for "DEFLATIONARY CRASH" to understand why these jobs cannot be sustained. We need manufacturing jobs, science, engineering and technology jobs. Service sector jobs are not able to help curb trade deficit. It is a dead end. Keynesians are dead wrong about it. At the end of the day, they won't be able to spend to stimulate the economy. Once their hand is forced, the crash will be unlike anything we have ever witnessed. We need to let the free markets run so that private sector can align itself with what works and what does not. FED is giving the wrong signals to the economy and it is creating wrong kind of jobs. These jobs won't survive the next leg down.