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This story has been updated
Taking responsibility for the loss of $535 million in taxpayer money in a loan to Solyndra, the California solar company that went bankrupt last September, Energy Secretary Steven Chu told a House committee Thursday the loss was “extremely unfortunate,” but was due neither to incompetence by his department, nor to a politically-motivated decision to grant the loan.
Instead, Chu said, the reason Solyndra went bankrupt was an unexpected change in market conditions that blindsided his department.
“The price of solar modules plummeted” due to a drop in demand and the global market became saturated with subsidized products from China and other countries.
“The price of solar panels dropped precipitously … In a single year, it dropped by 40 percent,” he told Rep. Diana DeGette, D- Colo. “There was a large production ramping up, namely in China and secondly, there was a softening in Europe – a lot of (government) subsidies were decreasing and demand was softening.”
Later in the hearing, he told Energy and Commerce Committee chairman Rep. Fred Upton, R- Mich., that “when the bottom of a market falls out, and the price of solar (panels) decreases by 70 percent in two-and-a-half years, that was totally unexpected … This company and several others got caught in a very bad tsunami.”
His testimony painted a picture of a solar energy market in which outcomes were largely determined by government subsidies, both in the United States and abroad.
Chu told the members of the committee that it “remains to be seen” whether any of the $535 million in taxpayer will be recovered, but he predicted that “not very much” would be.
The Solyndra affair has proven to be an embarrassment for the Obama administration, with Republicans alleging both mismanagement by the Energy Department and possible political influence brought to bear on the department by Democratic donors.
Solyndra was the first renewable-energy company to receive a loan guarantee under the 2009 stimulus law. Chu attended a 2009 groundbreaking when the loan was announced, President Obama visited the company's Fremont, Calif., headquarters on May 26, 2010, and the firm filed for bankruptcy on Sept. 6, 2011.
Documents turned over to the committee show that George Kaiser, an investor and fundraiser for Obama, discussed Solyndra with administration officials in early 2010. But Chu repeatedly denied that political considerations had anything to do with the Solyndra loan.
Chu said that Obama administration e-mails in 2009 and 2010 predicting a cash flow crisis for the firm related only to the financing and construction of one fabrication plant, not the survival of the entire company.
At one point he told the committee that “nearly $1 billion of investments by savvy people” – private investors – showed that they had faith that the firm was viable.
Rep. Henry Waxman, D- Calif., the senior Democrat on the Energy and Commerce Committee, said at the hearing that congressional Republicans ought to “stop dancing on Solyndra’s grave and start getting serious about energy policy.”
He accused Republicans of wanting to “surrender” to state-subsidized energy firms in China and of wanting “to maintain our addiction to fossil fuels and cripple clean energy companies that could compete with oil and coal.”
He said that the documents which the White House and the Energy Department had turned over to the committee proved that Chu’s decision to extend the loan guarantee to the California firm was “based on the merits and not political considerations.”
But Rep. Cliff Stearns, R-Fla, the chairman of the Energy subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations, said at the outset of the hearing that the unresolved questions were why the Department of Energy and the Obama administration “tied themselves company so closely to Solyndra and why they were so desperate to repeatedly prop up this company.”
He questioned whether the entire Solyndra investment was “a good deal for anyone but the rich hedge fund investors.”
One focus of the hearing was whether Chu violated federal law by approving a restructuring of the Solyndra loan so that two private investors could move ahead of taxpayers for repayment in case of default.
Rep. Joe Barton, R-Texas, said the loan subordination was a clear violation of the law and that it “absolutely puzzles me,” but Chu said his department’s general counsel had OK’d the arrangement.
The Energy Department faced a difficult decision in late 2010 and early this year, he said: Force Solyndra into bankruptcy or restructure the loan guarantee to allow the company to accept emergency financing that would be paid back first if the company was still unable to recover.
"Immediate bankruptcy meant a 100 percent certainty of default, with an unfinished plant as collateral. Restructuring improved the chance of recovering taxpayer money by giving the company a fighting chance at success," Chu said.
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i wonder what deal he made with obama to be the fall guy for this half a billion dollar debacle ? its not gonna end with this admission...still too many questions...transparency ? this administration is trying to cover their backsides and the coverup is always worse then the crime...obamas dirty hands are all over this and for once it would be nice to get the truth!!!! for once
The emails contradict everything this man is saying. This is far from over.
The decision to postpone the announcement of layoffs until after the election is a political consideration.
Until the bankruptcy is complete no one knows the outcome of this. There are substantial assets to be sold. The government loan position is first after the last ditch $75 million in interim financing is repaid. It would not be a surprise to see some of the money returned to the taxpayer when this is done as they have some world class real estate and the most up to date factory to be sold, and it would not be a surprise to find some buyer for the business still. Maybe the government loan can be rolled over into a new owner that has solid assets to back them up. In the private equity world this would be the first option pursued, but in the bizarro political world it probably won't occur to anyone.
Still, it ain't over 'til it's over, folks.
When is somebody going to grill our Congress for allowing the Chinese to dump solar panels into the US market at less than the cost of production?
China uses prison labor and slave labor as well as backdoor subsidies to reduce the cost of products to ridiculous levels.
This is exactly how we lost the majority of our steel and auto industries and many other industries such as electronics, toys, cameras, etc, etc.
We need proper tariffs to protect American industries from these types of predatory market practices.
We needed them starting back in the 1970's and are still waiting for Congress to take their blinders off to the theft of the American industries that produce jobs for Americans.
Chu should be gone because of Solyndra. Holder because of Fast & Furious. And Obama because he was the incompetent jerk that appointed this arrogant idiots.
There is always a "Fall Guy" for the person who originally sets up a deal of this magnitude. Who could it be.
Chu is stupid. Maybe he'll run for Mayor of a Major City like Rahm Emanuel.
Bad things happen in an Administraton, Corporation, or Business--it is the guy at the top that must take responsibility. I am sure Chu consulted with O on this matter.
Why else would Obama happily go thru Solyndra, (being quoted, and photographed) making nice with them? Was Chu there as well? Lots of big bucks flying out of taxpayers money, the Federal Reserve, and Treasury for these ill-fated upstart companies.
Please: Americans are broke, hungry, no jobs, no homes--Work on them first, please. Solar Energy will cost much more than the fuel (Coal) we use today. Our first natural resource of energy.
Ironically... the very market Chu is talking about was propped up by Home Improvement initiatives funded by his own government. The government was the one inflating the market, they stopped offering the tax incentives on solar, and then the market dropped back down to it's original levels. Chu seems to not be that intelligent.
conspicuously absent: the NBC 1st read employees that typically post ridiculous lib garbage in here!
It's time to audit our sacred cow Pentagon
to see how they blow off
$660 billion per year in taxpayer money
in their many boondoggles.
Obama, Holter, Chu are liars, don't have the balls to stand up and be real men.
In spite of conservatives screaming at the top of their lungs in early 2009 about how this type of "stimulus" spending was doomed to failure and the government trying to create a market where one did not exist, Chu expects us to believe his department was "blind-sided"??? Evey conservative I know realized this was nothing more than agenda-driven boondoggle spending. And Chu says it was not due to incompetence??? Hiring advisers for the sole reason that they agree with your position, no matter how off-base it may be is complete incompetence.
As for the loans not being politically motivated, that statement fails on two counts. First the whole program was politically motivated, so every loan was politically motivated. Secondly new auditing of these programs have shown that while only 10% of overall applications resulted in money being dispersed, 75% of the money went to companies tied to large Obama donors/bundlers or associated with administration officials.
Actually, Solyndra has a great technology. Instead of using flat panels, they came up with tubes in a flat square, making the the collection area much bigger, less heavy and easier installation. I know at the beginning they had some grounding problems and their prices where higher than regular flat panels. on the other hand, Solyndra was known to over spend on their facilities and manufacturing.
it's true that China manufacturing subsidy, and lower manufacturing cost will make it almost impossible for USA companies to succeed. Most of the solar companies in the USA went belly up too.. and the ones left standing moved to china.
But the bigger question is what will the USA do about renewable energy, will USA give up on the renewable market and accept China as the leader despite this being an american technology? will USA keep giving china access to the biggest market in the world without paying for it?
OIL Company SUBSIDIES are far more GENEROUS than the Solyandra project.
Democrats are either
I am good with either explanation.
Where is Fisty and her vagminions?
RI Mom, how about counting in all the "green" subsidies that companies like GE get which allow a multi-billion dollar company like them to not just have lower tax bills, but to get tax credits.
Rational AmeriCAN,
3. Both.
RI Mom, exactly what subsidies do oil companies get which are unique to that industry? BTW you do realize that oil companies are responsible for hundreds of thousands of paying jobs, either directly or indirectly? The same cannot be said about Solyandra.
The American tax code indicates that oil production is among the most heavily subsidized businesses, with tax breaks available at virtually every stage of the exploration and extraction process.
Capital investments like oil field leases and drilling equipment are taxed at an effective rate of 9 percent, significantly lower than the overall rate of 25 percent for businesses in general and lower than virtually any other industry.
Transocean had exploited tax laws by moving overseas to avoid paying taxes in the United States.
The oil and natural gas industry has spent $340 million on lobbyists in the past 2 years.....yet, oil prices and potential profits are so high that eliminating the subsidies would decrease American output by much less than half of one percent.
Oil industry officials say that the tax breaks, average about $4 billion a year .
The angry mob against Solyandra is nothing but a political pimp brigade hoping for substantial donations from BIG OIL to finance their campaigns.
The total government savings from eliminating BIG OIL subsidies is projected to be $45 billion over 10 years.
FORTY
FIVE
BILLION
....Solyandra is a welcomed smoke screen put up by Republicans to deflect their lust for oil.
It will be interesting to see if on NOVEMBER 23, the Super Committee in their efforts to get a hold on our DEBT...ELIMINATES the OIL subsidies.
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2010/05/oil_company_subsidies.html
While the (R)'s gloat and point fingers at this brilliant American Technology, China has become the SOLAR LEADERS of the world.
Happy ?
No RI Mom, the political "pimps" are Obama and his staff of minions !
Any way you slice it, dice it or try to "justify it" our federal government has ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS in the "loan business", gambling with taxpayer funds at a time when our country is now over $15 trillion in debt !
The worst thing about this financial insanity is how they tried to cover this up until AFTER the 2010 elections. This is just part of the reason we don't want the unchecked growth of a massive federal government that proves, everyday, it doesn't know what in the hell it is doing !!
Just think now about wanting this kind of FAILED TRACK RECORD federal bureaucracy running our health industry under OBAMACARE !!!! The fraud, the abuse, the rampant stupidity and the political contrivances will destroy our already-fragile economy. Obamacare will be the "mother" of all clu$ter@!$%#$ !!!!!!!!!!!!!
80% of these so called "GREEN COs" loans were given to Obama bundlers, large donors, and supporters. some were these: FIRST SOLAR CORP-TED TURNER, PAUL TUDOR JONES,$4.7 BILLION! FISKER AUTOMOTIVE-AL GORE AND JOHN DOERR, $529 MILLION, BRIGHTSOURCE- ROBERT KENNEDY JR. DAN REICHER AND LARRY PAGE,SERGEI BRINN (GOOGLE) 1.4 BILLION! GEORGE KAISER- SOLYNDRA, $573 MILLION, TESLA MOTORS, DAN REICHER (AGAIN) AND OTHERS $465 MILLION, AMYRIS BIOTECHNOLOGIES-JOHN DOERR (AGAIN) AND STEVE WESTLY, $24 MILLION, HYDROGEN ENERGY CALIFORNIA LLC-2.5 BILLION, BP AND RIO TINTO ? SOLAR TRUST OF ANERICA-SETH WAUGH, $2.1 BILLION. SOLAR RESERVE-MICHAEL FROMAN, $737 MILLION, SUMMITT TEXAS CLEAN ENERGY, LLC-ERIC REDMAN AND LAURA MILLER, $1.5 BILLION.
This is just a partial list of the thiefs that are going on under this corrupt OBAMA administration. Everyone of these people are at least millionaires and many BILLIONAIRES! How long will we put up with this disgrace? If These people are so hell bent on wasting money on this scam they should use their own money, not on the taxpayers dime. This @!$%# makes me sick. WAKE UP AMERICA! YOU ARE BEING SCAMMED BY THIS CORRUPT OBAMA REGEIME!
PS, almost all (if not all) of these companies will go bankrupt and the tax payers will pay for it! THERE SHOULD BE A INVESTIGATION INTO THIS CORRUPTION!
1.20
A G R E E D...STOP GIVING OIL COMPANIES OUTRAGEOUSLY GENEROUS SUBSIDIES
(PS...watch the potty mouth)
1.21
Nice list you copied from a Conservative BLOG...and how many of these investments have failed?
So, you think its all lies? prove me wrong! What a fool you are. Oh, and one other thing, at least with the oil subsidies we don't have $10.00 gallon gas (although with Obama not for long) With the solar scam, we are buying rare earth minerals from China at a 8000% price increase. They, in return are buying our coal at giveaway prices. So much for that. Oh, to make you feel a little better about yourself, Obama just gave China 10 million tax dollars (GAVE) to do a enviromental study. Great! have a nice day!
You are correct RI Mom, the rest are minions for the oil industry (dont' care how many jobs they create, I don't respect anyone who works for them, even if they clean the bathroom floor!) or republicans who worship at the alter of big oil. i don't see this any worse than the Halliburton deals that dickie wanted - which is probably why we attacked a country that did nothing to us, so yes, where are the real investigations and coverups? Guess they died with georgie's presidency.
@RI MOM #1.22,
Define "outrageously generous subsidies" ...... even though it is QUITE OBVIOUS THIS IS NOT THE TOPIC and you are merely trying to "deflect.
Now be DETAILED and SPECIFIC.....no vague generalities. I don't think you know what you are talking about.
(P.S. ... in reviewing my prior post, I see nothing "potty mouth"....certainly nothing directed at you. Are you merely trying to deflect from the topic matter again ?)
I want all subsidies and loopholes banned and many thought that what was the "Change" Obama was talking about.
He just changed who gets to steal our money from the GOP friends to his friends.
1.26
jim-1455434
1. Intangible drilling costs. Firms engaged in the exploration and development of oil or gas properties may expense (deduct in the year paid or incurred) certain types of drilling expenditures from their taxes. These costs include wages, fuel, repairs, hauling, and supplies related to and necessary for drilling and preparing wells for the production of oil and gas. Other companies incurring similar types of costs must recover this cost over the life of the investment.
2. Deduction for tertiary injectants. Tertiary, or enhanced oil recovery, methods increase the amount of oil that a company can extract from a well by an additional 5 percent to 15 percent according to some research. This tax expenditure subsidizes the costs of tertiary injectants—the fluids, gases, and other chemicals that are pumped into oil and gas reservoirs as part of this process. The subsidy essentially gives companies government money for acting in ways that will enhance their profits. It allows companies to expense the costs of tertiary injectants, even though such costs should be recovered over time. Companies can alternatively choose to deduct these costs as an intangible drilling cost.
3. Percentage depletion allowance. Percentage depletion allows an independent oil company to deduct from its taxes about 15 percent from the revenue generated from a well, even if that amount exceeds the well’s total value. This means that oil companies take a deduction as long as a well is producing oil, without regard to how much, or whether, the well is still declining in value. Companies in other industries are only allowed to deduct an amount that represents the decline in their investment’s value that year.
4. Passive investments. The government generally only allows investors to deduct a limited amount of losses from “passive activities” such as renting land in order to prevent tax shelters. Yet oil and gas properties are exempt from this rule. This gives oil and gas companies a competitive edge over other types of energy companies.
5. Domestic manufacturing tax deduction. Companies that manufacture, produce, or extract oil and gas or any primary derivative receive a manufacturing subsidy provided that the product was made in the United States. But since removing this subsidy does not affect the production of oil, the subsidy does not significantly affect business decisions and eliminating the subsidy would not affect consumer prices. The subsidy is essentially a throwaway for oil companies. The tax expenditure is provided through a deduction for 9 percent of income, subject to a limit of 50 percent of the wages paid that are allocable to domestic production during the taxable year.
6. Geological and geophysical expenditures. The Energy Policy Act of 2005 created this tax subsidy, which allows companies to deduct the costs associated with searching for oil, recovering the costs over a two-year period.
7. Foreign tax credit. This credit is intended to prevent the double taxation of income that is taxed abroad but also subject to tax in the United States. Yet companies, particularly oil companies, have managed to exploit this subsidy even when they don’t pay income taxes abroad.
8. Enhanced oil recovery credit. Companies receive a 15 percent income tax credit for the costs of recovering domestic oil when they use “enhanced oil recovery” methods to extract oil that is too viscous to be extracted by conventional primary and secondary water-flooding techniques. The EOR credit is nonrefundable and is allowed if the average wellhead price of crude oil (using West Texas Intermediate as the reference) in the year before the credit is claimed is below the statutorily established threshold price of $28 (as adjusted for inflation since 1990) in the year the credit is claimed.
9. Marginal well production. This provision provides a subsidy for oil and gas produced from certain types of oil and gas wells. These wells include those that produce heavy oil and those with an average production within a statutorily specified range.
1.26:
Hope this spells it out for you
1.27
READ the article...
...OIL WAS MENTIONED
Unexpected??? Obama's whole story to justify green investments was to drive down costs and become competitive with dirty fuels. Are they now saying they really didnt expect it to work out that way?
The Bush administration denied requests from Solyndra for loans! Wonder why?
Holy cow, the right-wingers in this thread are off their rocks.
1) Drilling oil creates very few jobs, and the few that are created are only in specific regions of the nation.
2) Subsidizing Big Oil does NOT reduce the price of gas at the pump. Big Oil has been raking in record profits with no decrease in the price at the pumps. Oil drilled in the US is sold on the global market, not stamped "USA" for our own consumption. If you want to reduce the price of gas at the pump we would need to end speculation on Wall Street and build more refineries.
3) Big Oil is given tax credits for R&D of cleaner, alternative energy. But where are the results (other than drinking water destroyed by fracking chemicals)? Big Oil won't change a damn thing until they have milked every last penny from every profitable fossil fuel resource.
What we need is to get the greedy oil companies and Wall Street traders out of the picture completely. First off, natural resources in the US belong to all citizens, and secondly it is the tax payers who have paid for much of the grid--damns for hydro-power, canals for water, roads to transport oil, etc. Yet these sources of energy are provided via private companies at a ridiculous profit.
We need to fund a NASA-style effort to develop energy, and then we need to keep it in the people's hands even if it means nationalizing it. But we will not be free from dependence on foreign oil until we do, and will not have affordable energy until the greed and exploitation is removed.
The Teapublicans who continually block any and all progress are the traitors. Throw them and their Big Oil donors out!
1.32
WRONG
WRONG
WRONG
FACT:
House Republicans have claimed that the Bush administration ultimately rejected the Solyndra loan, but that's not quite the case.
Democrats on the House Energy and Commerce Committee and news media point out that Bush energy officials wanted to get the loan closed on their way out the door — it was listed as the first of their "three highest priorities through January 15."
(Obama took office Jan. 20, 2009.) But the Energy Department's credit committee held things up for more analysis.
The Bush Administration said that the Solyndra's project "appears to have merit."
But the clock had run out.
Lesson here: Careful if you are getting your FACTS from FOX...
The REAL story is "Why did the Bush Administration, based on the analysis by the experts in the Energy Department, reject the loan, and then, a few weeks after Obama took office, it was suddenly approved - and was that approval based on the investors in Solyndra making big campaign contributions to Obama?"
Chu's testimony that it was not politically motivated just doesn't pass the 'smell test'. Chu needs to resign and 'come clean'.
By the way, the analysts under the Bush Administration predicted that Solyndra would go bankrupt in September of 2011 if the loan was made. And it filed for bankruptcy in, let's see now, oh yes - September 2011.
Chu's Crisis Management photo op did nothing to quell the American ANGER of spending taxpayer dollars for a FAILED Obama "Go Green" agenda item.
This is what happens when Community Organizers and Community Activists (Cabinet and sub-cabinet members) are put in positions of authority.
For the Obama campaign workers: you have my authorization to put the above in one of your campaign ads.
1.26:
Okay RI Mom,
I suggested that this discussion was talking about solar industry not oil company benefits afforded them under the current tax system. My comment was to the effect how liberals are moving the discussion to the oil industry.
Now I haven't an issue with removing those benefits; however, to remove them those funny boys and girls in the Federal Government must make those changes happen. And how much campaign money and field trips sponsored by that industry are channeled to those dysfunctional legislators?
I have been against any government involvement with industry. The Feds, when they have their hand in anything constantly screw up the game. Look at the financial services bailouts, the auto bailouts, the stimulus programs. Each one hasn't produced anything of value other than the cost to taxpayers.
Time to remove the whole lot of them and reduce the role of the Feds today.
@RI Mom #1.26,
You do realize that cutting and pasting without referencing is PLAGIARISM, do you not ?
Now to the debunking and your contrived word usage:
1). Intangible drilling costs are COSTS of exploration and bringing a product to market. They SHOULD be deducted as a cost of doing business, and this is a deduction which has NOTHING TO DO WITH a "SUBSIDY". You then vaguely ascribed other businesses can't do this without defining what other businesses you are talking about,
2). Deduction for tertiary injectants ......again no verification that our government is PAYING for these injectants and would appear to be a cost of oil production that is logically deducted as an expense.
3). Percentage depletion allpwance .... I might agree to some slight extent, but the costs of exploring and bringing a well to production do not allow for ALL costs to be deducted as you imply. What is not deducted must be capitalized and amortized, depreciated over estimated useful life or depleted.
4). Passive investments argument ..... won't get into this, way too many variations of what constitutes a passive investment. Again, our government is not "Subsidizing" but allowing for deductions.
5) Domestic manufacturing tax DEDUCTION...... again, an allowed deduction, not to be confused with our government sending them money,
6) Geological and Geophysical costs deducted over 2 years....... so you think looking for additional resources has no costs involved ? Are you truly that gullible ?? Again, deductions for costs of doing business are not "subsidies". (Are Pepsi and Coke not allowed to deduct advertising costs ??)
7). Foreign Tax Credit for taxes paid abroad ?? Only in a liberal's mind should income be taxed twice ! Then you claim they "escape" this sometimes ........ with no proof or link or plagiarized statement from another. Sorry, but individual taxpayers get foreign tax credits also through their broker statements EOY.
8). Enhanced oil recovery credit ..... apparently our government DESIRED TO ENCOURAGE oil production, even when the costs exceeded the benefits. No subsidy by the government, only a non-refundable credit that is not certain, and
9). Well ..... you simply FAILED to specify what constituted this "subsidy you claim.
It looks like most of your claim for SUBSIDY is merely allowing deductions for the cost of doing business.
Geez, if you are going to plagiarize, do it on something worthwhile... something with validity.
ROY WILSON-336103
You don't like how it "smells"? The testimony from Chu holds water. If anything, we need to look at why projects that would have used these and other type panels were blocked by the Republicans... do I "smell" oil?
Look, we can all have our conspiracy theories and point at each other, but without proof, they are nothing but theories.
Yes, the administration was anxious to make this work for many reasons... like maybe because it would be in our national interest. And, yes, the Republicans were anxious to see it fail so they could do what they are doing now to the administration AND keep big oil intact. But the real cause is the economy... just bad timing on what would be risky even under normal economic conditions.
R I mom: I personally "lust for oil" as you put it...I fill my tank with it in order to get to work everyday in my effort to be a contributing member of society ( I do actually pay taxes; federal, state, city, utilities, and property taxes....I don't think that that is a bad thing so I'll continue to "lust" away.
Is your lust going to give you the answers to solve the Millions of Tons of Methanethat has just been discovered is being released into the air we breath. Because the arctic is warming.
LMarcT "ROY WILSON-336103 You don't like how it "smells"? The testimony from Chu holds water."
It seems very strange that the analysts in the Energy Dept under Bush predicted that Solyndra would go bankrupt in September 2011 if the loan was made (which is exactly what happened), but Chu was 'Totally surprised' when it happened.
He's either lying or he's totally incompetent - Either way, he needs to go.
Yeah, yeah, the Bozobama group's rallying, neverending cry, "We didn't know!" , well, this incompetent bunch of lying little sacks is about to find out there IS a consequence for being either too stupid not to know or for simply lying yet again. Let's hope they rake them over the coals before the Supreme Court tosses Bozobamacare as unconstitutional.
How could this be unexpected if years ago they predicted the company would go bankrupt the very month it did? OMG we were blindsided by this company going under. If only I had read the email that predicted the future perfectly.
There is only one truth about Solyndra. It was a political payoff to a donor. If only I could donate a few million to a political candidate and in return get a government backed loan for half a billion dollars. My first order of business would be to create real jobs with a real future, not just temporary jobs till the money runs out. I'd also set a few million aside and move to Europe and enjoy some amazing food.
As Laura Ingram said: Two words on this scandal....Steve Spinner.
This is the most corrupt administration I have seen in my 59 years. My words.
Riiiight, Laura Ingraham is an excellent source for information -- Not.
Let's see...
Solyndra: $535 million to save an American company from the godless communist Chinese.
British Petroleum Oil Spill: $40 BILLION AND COUNTING, all paid by the taxpayers.
But can you guess which one the teabaggers decided to swiftboat? That's right, they will not start a witch hunt against the oil companies, because they are OWNED by the oil companies.
The fans of the GOP spent 8 years cheering on Bush.
Some of them like to pride themselves for deciding that they didnt like him towards the end. Most of us never entered that burning building in the first place, but these people had to feel their hair melting before they realized it was time to exit ...and they boast of their keen sense of perception.
So here we are, in no time at all, and these same rocket scientists are back, dead sure, like the last time, that they are the only ones who get it ...not even making the connection that theyre still getting all of their facts from the same sources as they did during the Bush era ...and that these sources and the politicians they idolize still all have the exact same agenda that Bush did.
The rest of us see this as clearly as we saw that house burning, from blocks away ...but the GOP fans keep swinging away, thinking theyll get a hit, armed with their latest fallacies, gathered from the same group that melted their hair.
One day history will write a footnote about the propagandists that shilled for the elite and corporations and their faithful followers will be remembered as the most pathetic among us.
VOTE REPUBLICAN - DIVIDE THE PEOPLE
So why the He ck was this admistration in the private sector investment business in the first place???!!!!
Why is the government in our private lives legislating morality, why is the government redistributing wealth via the tax code with punishments/rewards for lifestyle choices like having lots of kids, why warrant-less wiretaps, why, why, why these many things Teapublicans support?
The role goverment should play is anything to do with national security, which includes: safety, which is military defense (not unilateral preemptive strikes) and law and order/first responders, ensuring basic needs are produced and accessible to all citizens from clean air and water, safe food, shelter, energy, and health care, education for global competitiveness, decent jobs (even manufacturing to ensure ability to produce arms) -- Pretty much everything Teapublicans are against.
If you are ever uncertain of what to support, just ask if it is in the best interest of our national security and you will have your answer.
I would add to the above -- elements necessary for democracy: direct vote or indirect vote via a Republic with a minimum of two parties, a free press that plays a watchdog role, an educated population, a middle class, civil and individual rights, rule of law already mentioned above, etc.
Once again, the right-wing has been chipping away at the power of the vote with money in politics, gerrymandering, making it difficult to vote, and by sponsoring propaganda outlets like FOX Noise and Hate Radio held to no journalistic standards, undermining education of our population, destroying the middle class by favoring the rich, having no regard for civil or individual rights whether the right for labor to organize, freedom of speech and assembly (for anyone but them), women's rights, and on and on.
Everything our founding fathers intended has been undermined, legislating morality (prohibition, illegal abortion), then in the 1950s with attacks on Separation of Church and State, then on to the off-shoring of American jobs, and now the conspiracy of Big Oil, Wall Street, insurance and Big Pharma to turn the country into a plutocracy of rule by the rich (not a comprehensive list, but you get the drift). It is time, way past time, to return to the founding principles conservatives only give lip service to.
Apparently Fiesty and her Vagminions decided to let this argument go because even they can't defend it no matter what lens they view it with.
Good of you girls to spare us your vitriol.
@True Patriot
You seem to think Republicans are the ones chipping away at your freedoms. I view it differently.
Democrats have made me buy health insurance or face a fine or maybe worse.
Democrats have stopped us from drilling for oil in our own country. This makes us beholden to whom?
Democrats are hell bent on violating my right to bear arms.
Democrats are hell bent on driving this nation into European tax and debt that robs us of our economic power.
Democrats have promised a chicken in every pot. They have enslaved the poor! Sickening.
Republicans want you to show an ID before you vote.
Oh, now I see your point.....not.
Richard-1971294 "How could this be unexpected if years ago they predicted the company would go bankrupt the very month it did????? If only I could donate a few million to a political candidate and in return get a government backed loan for half a billion dollars."
The Solynrda owners contributed only about $80,000 to Obama, so they got over $6,000 of taxpayer money for every $1 'contributed' to Obama.
That's a great 'Return on Investment', no matter how you look at it.
1.38
Dear self-named TRUE PATRIOT:
Before you spout oiff your own version of IRS rules, let me direct you to the FACTS on what you can elect to deduct or capitalize:
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p535/ch07.html
7. Costs You Can Deduct or Capitalize
Table of Contents
Let me help you out before you go off on another nonsensical "opine" on Oil:
Oil A Big Investment With Big Tax Breaks:
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/07/oil-tax-break.asp#axzz1e492RuhG
Hmmmm...BIG OIL KEEPING all those GENEROUS TAX DEDUCTIONS for their OWN PROFITS...and that isn't a subsidy that they get?
We are talking BILLIONS...
RI Mom, it's obvious you or whatever liberal source you got this from found the outline of the IRS code and then just stopped there never reading the actual code.
For instance what the code actually says for "Intangible Drilling Costs" is:
So in other words, the oil companies can only deduct what it costs (employees, etc.) to drill a producing well or drill an exploratory well if that well is drilled in a way that it can produce if successful. That's pretty much like any other company. I own an IT company and I can deduct labor and other costs incurred by producing an experimental program even if that program turns out to be unsuccessful. This is the same thing.
"Exploration Costs":
This actually says they DON'T get a deduction, while others do.
"Development Costs":
Again, this section actually says they DON'T get a deduction.
"Research and Experimental Costs":
Again, I own an IT company and I can deduct labor and other costs incurred by producing an experimental program even if that program turns out to be unsuccessful. This is the same thing.
And guess what...GE and Big Green get the deductions outlined in pub. 535 too, but then also got hundreds of billions more in "stimulus" funds and deductions on top of that! Solyndra is just the tip of the iceberg. The Energy Department's expected loss -- just for that one single, solitary program -- is $10 billion. And referencing #1.23 and #1.21: The information John provided was from an audit performed by a Stanford fellow...not some random blogger. There is a lot more to this story.
Now to be honest I think you're right...half way. I don't think Big Oil should be getting subsidies, but neither should Big Green. I think it is ridiculous for you to scrutinize one while purposefully turning a blind eye to the other.
I also think it is ridiculous for you to be railing at the Big Oil companies' subsidies when the largest beneficiaries of these subsidies are the working poor. Do you actually think that the rich will get pinched by ending the subsidies??? No! If the oil companies lost their subsidies, they would just recover that cost by raising prices for gas at the pump, for heating oil at your home, for petroleum jelly at your local Walmart, etc.. The rich can easily withstand the inevitable increase in prices at the store or the pump due to lost subsidies, but the poor...not so much. You know...just to be clear about the consequences of what you're really asking for here.
The bottom line is, until they can discover any shred of evidence that Obama did anything illegal or unethical, Solyndra is a non-story. The accusations many among the right wing lunatic fringe are leveling against Obama are based upon wishful thinking, not facts, and therefore this little episode will fade away as more of the GOP's band of incompetent wannabe candidates continue their bizarre antics and force the Solyndra story off the front pages.
Read 'em and weep.
1.56
Whoa...
Blood in the water...the Conservatives are FURIOUS.
It is the trumped up saber-rattling against Solyndra that is hypocritical.
A system that benefits Big Oil is based on the fact that oil exploration is often a geological GAMBLE.
In the very large scheme of things Solyndra's GAMBLE on technology was a fraction of what the American Public has paid on GAMBLES.
Ironic that you and other support some GAMBLES, but not others.
It wasn't as if the Solyndra technology failed, it was the expense of producing solar tubes here in the USA that contributed to its downfall.
Not ALL GAMBLES pay off.
BTW: If you and all oil companies lost their subsidies, possibly GREEN ENERGY might have to become a priority in our building materials, our home and office construction, our public buildings, our transportation, our 21st C. way of life.
THAT would be the consequences.
Oil dependency gets us into "protecting our oil interests" * by involving ourselves in EXPENSIVE mid-east wars.
This solar company loan (agreed, risky) represents about 1.3 percent of the entire loan guarantee program, which was a $2.4 billion initiative created under the 2009 Recovery Act to support the new green technology investments.
Had the the other 98.7% GAMBLE loan guarantees all failed, I might be inclined to re-think green technology investments. But history proves, if at 1st you don't succeeed, try, try again.
As I recall, not all of our technologies were immediately successful.
The Chinese government poured $33 billion into its solar industry in 2010, allowing Chinese companies to produce solar panels at a fraction of the cost that American companies like Solyndra were paying.
FYI: What The Press Is Getting Wrong About Solyndra
http://mediamatters.org/research/201109190020
_______________________________________________________________________________
If you are worried about you tax dollars (I AM) how about those little used Federally Funded private airports that ate up 1.5 BILLION last year?
A productive SUPER COMMITTEE might challenge the ENTIRE list of federally funded sweet deals.
_____________________________________________________________________________
"protecting our oil interests" *
This was the GOP widely used phrase to defend our invasion of IRAQ after WMD were not found.
The real story is the "Halliburton loophole" that lets these oil frackers inject deadly chemicals into the ground, without having to tell anyone exactly what they are injecting. talk about corruption !
quite a bunch of people in these areas of fracking are able to light their water on fire !! drillers say it has nothing to do with fracking ! really?
Liberal talking points:
Republicans love big oil and give subsidies to them in exchange for political capital.
-Oil companies make profit, employ people who pay taxes, year in and year out.
Liberals love green energy and give subsidies to them in exchange for political capital.
-Green companies lose money, layoff all their people, screw the taxpayer, and go out of business.
That clears it up for me. Liberals are different.
Well folks, RI Mama did an outstanding job of attempting to move the discussion from 'solar and the obama administration' to an attack big oil talk. Tanks to those who spent the time to show the majority the ignorance of her position. If you haven't a clue as to tax laws, don't cut&paste liberal lies about tax laws that you don't understand.
The point of the discussion is the rape of taxpayer money by the Obama administration.
The story is about Solyndra not oil. It was a bad loan and made worse by moving the U.S. to the back of the line behind the investors.
Green energy is needed and there are plenty of successful Green companies out there. My company is a Green Home builder. We've been in business for over 40 years and we do not operate on borrowed money. If the government invested in our company they would get a positive return on their investment. But we don't need the government involved in our business.
I know it's only $535 million and that's a drop in the bucket compared to all of the money our leaders throw away, but to say they were blindsided by the market is a lie!
A little mis information has crept into the discussion here. Lets get some facts straight.
1. Solar incentives did not disappear they are valid through 2016, 30% comes back to you off the top. That's why I bought this year!
2. Chu is a liar. I forgot which government agency it was, (CBO? GAO?), but one of them over a year ago predicted to the month when they would go bankrupt. Their business model was so bad the Bush killed the loan. Obama resurrected it.
3. Solyndra was making modules for $6/watt and trying to sell them for $3/watt when it's competitors were selling them for $1.50-$2/watt, (I bought mine at $1.54). In what universe does that make economic sense??? That's why it was so easy to calculate when they would tank.
4. The government will never get that money back. Shortly before bankruptcy Obama's government restructured the loan so investors were put ahead of the public. That is illegal but since when has that stopped this administration.
5. From all of the above facts it is clear that this was a money laundering scheme. Obama funnels $500 million to a company that his contributors invest in. Just before they lose their investments, he restructures the loan so they are paid ahead of the tax payers. Obama gets big campaign donations from said people.
WOW !
The actual IRS Rules are liberal lies ?
CALL THE FEDS...CALL IRS....CALL NEWT !
And the best part from the article:
Rep. Joe Barton, R-Texas, said the loan subordination was a clear violation of the law and that it “absolutely puzzles me,”
Joe Barton, the guy who set a new standard in stupid by apologizing to BP for President Obama's "shakedown" of the company after the BP oil spill.
R I Mom
I give you credit for sticking to your guns on this thread and for raising some valid arguments.
The vast pool of ignorance, misinformation and gullibility known as Right Wing Conservatism led by an
overstuffed loudmouth on talk radio is obsessed with creating a lynch mob called the Tea party
targeting the President. This mob is, unfortunately, being provided with a lot of media exposure
through FOX news.
Against this huge bellowing crowd of conservative blather, voices of reason and sanity like yours
give me hope for our country.
Marv Leit......
Wow, a Liberal giving praise to another Liberal. Wow, just wow.
Would you like a list of Mr. Obama's domestic and International failures (Solyndra ranks up there with Stimulus #1 and "Fast and Furious") ? If you do, many of your comrades will collapse it (as done before) because they don't want the information circulating around the media since if would put "clouds" over Mr. Obama's Liberal agenda, his administration, and his re-election "chance" of winning.
1.65
Media Matters debunked the silliness of many of these posters claims.
http://mediamatters.org/research/201109190020
Not surprisingly, any kind of civilized RESEARCHED debate just annoys the conservatives, so when challenged, they make stuff up.
Was Solyndra a bad financial risk? Turns out, it was, and Chu said so.
My debate was to put the $$$ into perspective.
The claim that this seed wasn't about oil lost its merit when OIL DEFENDER, Joe Barton*, was quoted.
Why would Conservatives be so defensive of their oil and so freaking ballistic over Solyndra?
President Obama had wanted Congress to chop $3.6 billion in 2012 oil and gas tax breaks for a total of $46.2 billion over the next decade. Among Mr. Obama’s targets: a nearly century-old oil and gas industry tax deduction for the costs of preparing drill sites and a manufacturer's tax break granted the oil industry in 2004.
Gosh...those BILLION DOLLAR TAX breaks are REALLY BIG DOLLARS......so let's magnify and embelish the demise of Solyndra.
*J
1.66
Go ahead....Bring on that list you are threatening....but after you've read:
http://mediamatters.org/research/201109190020
BTW: registered INDEPENDENTS have a talent for being objective...so before you go off on a snit-fit about liberal American Citizens, consider this:
Gingrich?
Bachmann?
Cain?
Romney?
Perry?
really.....????
Media matters is funded partly by George Soros - who is a big Obama supporter. Did you think they would find anything good about someone with an opinon other than George's or Obama's
I say make an example of him and throw him in jail. If they can not get better information than that then, Oh Oh Oh, wait a minute. Weapons of Mass Destruction.
You want Clinton to go to jail?
No, we want GWB and Cheney to go to Jail. Hello, Weapons of Mass Destruction - 2 unpaid for WARS. I want ALL my Taxpayer money back for those first. Then we can worry about this. Oh and Wallstreet and you BiG Banks.... Don't ever expect another bailout. You will just go under.
lol, michigan! an entire state giving a shining example of the failures of lib policies.
Nolongermiddleclass: Perhaps you've forgotten that GWB put a hold on Solyndra's government funding; it is BO who removed the hold and went forward with the loan AND the photo op! BO stinks and so does this whole Solyndra mess.
Somthinfishy: Who would buy the Solyndra assets in this economy...maybe China - nothing like being vertically integrated.
Disgusted,You are exactly correct. Bush did put a hold on this Solyndra, The Obama regeime was so hell bent on a photo op to feel good about themselves they put a fast track on Solyndra without a review.
A little note to Indy in Michigan, So you are against the big bailouts to wallstreet and the banks, (that have paid back their loans, except for aig) ? What about GM AND CHRYSLER? GM still owes billions and their stock is falling like a rock. Guess thats different when Obama wants to bail out his voters and the corrupt unions that will be at the trough again soon. Oh, and GM and Chrysler, don't come begging for another bailout again, we are done carrying your load and your @!$%#ty cars.
2.4: Disgusted
2.5: John
2.4:
WRONG
WRONG
WRONG
2.5
WRONG
WRON
WRONG
FACT:
House Republicans have claimed that the Bush administration ultimately rejected the Solyndra loan, but that's not quite the case.
Democrats on the House Energy and Commerce Committee and news media point out that Bush energy officials wanted to get the loan closed on their way out the door — it was listed as the first of their "three highest priorities through January 15."
(Obama took office Jan. 20, 2009.) But the Energy Department's credit committee held things up for more analysis.
The Bush Administration said that the Solyndra's project "appears to have merit."
But the clock had run out.....and that is really what happened.
Let me repeat: Solyndra was a BUSH PRIORITY.
________________________________________________________________________________
1.21....John, I'm going to ASK YOU AGAIN: and how many of these investments have failed?
Reference your post of 1.21
Gosh RI mama, you sound like Bev orFeisty in drag. Is this her with a second login name?
The "blame the other guy" crowd cannot help themselves. They are the antithesis of "The Buck Stops HERE" of old. These little school children (Obama and his followers) cannot and will not be responsible for anything. It is as immature as it is disgusting.
We need real leadership in DC. Top to bottom.
That this idiot can lie in public and not be arrested on the spot is unfathomable.
That Obama is robbing the treasure in 1,000 ways that we will likely never know for sure speaks to the reality that government is too big, too corrupt, and must be rebuilt from scratch.
Market shift... I wonder why all the other solar panel companies are doing just fine, or at least those without Democrat owners and Obama's fingerprints all over them.
#2.8
Uhhh...do you ever WATCH Congressional hearings....
on BIG TOBACCO
ON BASEBALL
ON MAJOR AUTOMOBILE COMPANIES
ON BANKS....
Those guys in suits NEVER went to jail for those really egregious whoppers.
____________________________________________________________________________
I wonder why all the other solar panel companies are doing just fine
The ones in China ? The ones with MASSIVE GOVERNMENT subsidies.
Or in those countries where SOLAR is now REQUIRED on all new buildings?
Solyndra Solar TUBES (not panels) ....an American BRILLIANT technology that is just too damn expensive to produce in the USA.
RI Mom,
A subsidy is giving someone money, not letting a business deduct the costs of doing business from revenue to determine taxable profit. How would any business last and provide products and jobs if it could not. Every business in every country deducts the costs of production, including investments.
By your definition, every deduction you get on your taxes is much more directly a subsidy as they are not realted to any cost of production, perhaps you should also protest those.
Over the years the government (both parties) has provided accelerated depreciation so that the cost of investment can be expensed more rapidly, say over 10 years instead of the 20 years life of a machine tool in order to spur investment and jobs. Note that all the cash to make the investment is spent up front, so the deduction of that cost over time does not seem too outrageous. Investing in new plants and new, more productive tools is how jobs are created and wages increase. Wages cannot go up faster than productivity in the long run, therefore new, better tools are critical.
As far as your discussion about someone else selectively supporting gambling, your analogy is competely false. The objection is to having our money given to someone else to gamble when we get the loss but if it works they get all the profit. All businesses take risk every day, with their own money, in order to try to make a profit, if they fail they pay the price. Therefore the best and most efficient businesses attract the most capital, which is good for society while people who do not know what they are doing fail and lose their money and society stops giving them more.
That is what should have happened with the banks. Banks are critical to the economy, so you want the bank to survive but if they have to be bailed out the management should be fired and the old equity holders are wiped out and the government sells the equity to the market to recover the costs.
It would be absurd to tell an oil company that they can only deduct the costs of productive wells. In many places only one out of 3 wells hits, for that to be economic, gas prices that you pay would be astronomic.
Lets take Exxon, net profits in 2010, one of the best years ever, were 8% of sales, more than two thirds of the profit amount was invested in looking for more oil, new refineries, etc. Total taxes, including income taxes, sales taxes and duties were nearly triple the net income number. So tax the rest of it away or force gas prices down to eliminate profit, you would not see much difference at the pump and you would have no gas in a few years.
RI Mom
Repeating wrong does not make your argument. Solyndra funding was put on hold by the Bush Administration in January 2009, just days before leaving office.
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/09/17/solyndra-pressured-bush-wh-for-approval-in-january-2009/
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46217
RI Mom - you are a diehard to your cause to a fault.
Any incentives the oil producers get don't make up for all the dry holes, government regulations, all the money they spend to even start drilling - and then be told they cannot afterall.
Those incentives were put in place because in WW I and II energy became understood to be the key to national security. Today we are lulled into believing we are safe and that oil is totally evil, profit is totally evil to the point we no longer understand that our future safety is being compromised and being religiously mis-informed doesn't help one bit.
Falling on the sword for Obama!
modern day hari kari?
More like a list of kabobs, isn't it. I guess under the bus is too full today.
Chu is either a bald faced liar or a blithering incompetent. In either case he should go, voluntarily or fired!
I go with liar!
Obviously a liar. But, the funny thing is that Nixon was impeached for cover up of a two-bit burglary. The cover up in this administration is far worst. But, they'll get away with it. If Nixon were a dem, he would have too.
Until you bottom feeders can come up with real evidence to support your fantasies of theft and payoffs, this is a non-story. The Solyndra un-scandal will languish in the media due to the lack of proof to indicate any criminal wrong-doing on the part of Obama, and before long the story will be forced from the front pages by the asinine antics of the feckless GOP wannabes who are performing their impromptu comedy acts at public venues across the country.
Shortly, all you sad specimens will be left with is Obama's birth certificate and the 57 states chestnut to whine about while Obama strolls to his inevitable reelection.
Hope this helps!
Speaking of bottom feeders... Lol that's the pot calling the kettle black.
You know Sail, I usually don't need lab results to determine that a big ole pile of @!$%# really is a big ole pile of @!$%#.
Explain this to me: why do most of these loans go to Obama or Democrat party bundlers? Must be nice to be related to a Democrat politician these days.
Sailcat...Actually you are right....The almost monthly crazyness attached to Obama just seems to go away....While "you can see Russia" stays on for years and years....The media must have to concentrate very hard on bringing up enough charges against republicans to match the Obama record....Yes, of course, no matter what Obama does, the media will move on ASAP....Apparently the saying is true..."the best defense is a good offense" and the media, I am sure, is already picking the next three attacks....and Obamas crap will disappear from page 20.
Jim, apparently your @!$%#-detector is not functioning properly if you have the remotest suspicion any of the wannabe GOP candidates who are driving their clown car all over national TV are going to win the presidential elections in 2012. While you are having it looked at, you might want to have a psychiatric evaluation because you appear delusional.
And JA, I would gladly post the latest polls pitting Obama against any of the incompetent members of the Republican Candidates of the Week Club. Not one of them is ahead of Obama and most are in the tank. Between their bizarre public statements and nasty scandals, there just won't be enough room on the front page to publish the non-events you are dreaming will bring Obama down. I think if you develop a set of critical thinking skills it will become apparent even to you that the GOP is self-destructing, but until then just enjoy a tall frosty bottle of your favorite malt liquor and a jumbo bag of pork rinds and watch the excitement unfold as Obama is reelected by default: there won't be any Republican candidates this time next year to run against him!
I'm delusional?!?!? You sit there at your computer and complain about rampant greed from the GOP but give the blatant tactics of the DNC a pass? Democrats are some of the most hypocritical folks I know. I don't agree with crimes from ANY party and think that ALL of them should be prosecuted while you're willing to give your side a pass. That does nothing but show your own brand of bankrupt morality.
Focus, Jim: No one has make any claims they have proof, evidence, or facts that implicate Obama in anything illegal or unethical. Nothing. Nada. Zip. There is nothing here to pin your hateful accusations on. You are simply making unfounded claims that cannot be substantiated. To be blunt, your delusions are the product of wishful thinking combined with personal dishonesty.
Fail.
You are a lost cause Sail. You have my pity. Welcome to ignore since you cannot discuss without rabid insults.
Oh, they weren't rabid insults. They were insightful observations. I'm sure others would agree, too!
Sometimes private businesses fail. It's a political embarrassment, but that's all. Nothing to see here except nine months of taxpayer money wasted trying to manufacture a "scandal" out of thin air.
Did you read the emails?
They knew, but did not care and that is gross!
All for a photo opp., a $535,000,000 photo opp. Thank you President Obama!
Hard to call this business private. Seems that they got plenty of public money. Check out the other so called "green" loans. You might be surprised to learn that they are run by Obama donors.
Ummm... Political contributions and then government loans... nothing to see here. Your leader is a corrupt liar.
Yes, businesses do fail. But, they seldom fail after the US government loans them more than $0.5B. What a ignorant statement. The point is the government loan to a known, failing company and not the failure of a company who makes solar panels. I wouldn't invest one nickel in such a company, and the government knew that Solyndra was going to fail, and they made the loan anyway, just to get the money out the door and off their books. Chu knew and the DOE knew that this loan was bogus and they made it anyway. Your attempt to cover this up is so shallow as to make one nauseus. In fact, you make me nauseus.
When a company receives a "going-concern" opinion letter from the independent CPA's, that is like the kiss of death. Our federal government, under Barack Obama, ignored this and loaned the money anyway, then tried to hide the bad news when they failed.
Incompetence by the feds or corruption by the Obama administration ? It doesn't matter ..... either way WE DO NOT NEED OBAMA RUNNING THIS COUNTRY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This article makes no mention as to why Solyndra failed. The Chinese government heavily subusidised the production of solar cells causing the price of solar cell to rapidly decrease making it impossible for US solar cell manufacturers to compete.
Solyndra failed because they were selling their product for half of what it cost to make.
Michael, you are correct. But the problem is that they knew that before they gave away our money. They just did not care.
They were told not to proceed repeatedly, but they did not care. Read the emails.
Great business model !
Why do you think they were charging less than it cost to produce, because the Chinese manufacturers were charging less than a quarter of what it cost them to produce their solar cells. The Chinese government picked up the rest of the cost in order to put US manufacturers out of business. The Chinese can afford to do this because the have a huge surpluss of money because US companies shipped all their plants and jobs to China.
Okay Michael, knowing this, would you invest in that company?
We need to move our subsides of oil to solar.
No, we don't need to subsidies anything! If it is viable, it will stand on its own!
While it's true that the Solyndra manufacturing costs exceeded the subsidized cost of Chinese product, they also were very high compared to US based competitors according to an engineer buddy of mine. It was just doomed to fail no matter what, apparently. But it least it provided some good photo ops for the current holder of the Bully Pulpit and a reason to replace General Chu who has indicated his willingness to fall on his sword to protect his liege.
Damn, the Chinese were successful. And now the US taxpayer is out $0.5B and the government made a loan to pay off Obama election debt using our money. The government knew this was a very bad loan before they made it and they made it anyway because it was money for free and taxes for nothing. Don't try to defend Obama and Chu. They are guilty and they should pay, both of them.
The reason China did this is so that "we" the US will call and ask for more money!!!!!! But Odumbo said we are not worried about China. Well please explain how we the US is to react if and when China comes knocking on the door for their loan repayment??????
You're acting like China has all the cards here. Do you even have any idea how the Chinese currency system works? It's not a one-sided fight; we've got them by the nuts too.
Of course, they're about to see their own economic bubble burst real soon, so that will probably make things pretty rough for both of us.
Chu is quoted as saying "The Solyandra transaction went through more than two years of rigorous technical, financial and legal due diligence, spanning two administrations, before a loan guarantee was issued". Is there ANYONE in this administration who can speak without blaming the previous administration?
Chu ignores the fact that the Bush administration, research having shown this to be a loser, passed on giving the loan.
The Bush administration denied their request. Did he conveniently leave that out? The request was denied on January 9, 2009.
The past administration killed it and the new one brought it back to life even though they were told not to proceed.
I guess Bush was just smarter than Obama? That is scary!
Bush has an MBA from Harvard. I don't think they just give those away. He also graduated from Yale.
Let's go with common sense then.
Yes and before he became govenor of Texas he ran multiple companies into the ground.
Chu is a physicist, what is he doing making financial decisions. He knows NOTHING about finance. He was told this was a bad investment, he decided he knew more.
Between what money us taxpayers invested and private investors..................that totals almost $1.6 BILLION! Where the heck did all that money go in a years time? We need a forensic audit team to go through there books.
Chu should be forced to resign or terminated along with everyone else involved.
We give away $4 billion a year to oil companies that make huge profits. Way more than was lost due to the failure of Solyndra.
Yes Michael, we need to stop all subsidies. I guess you are joining the Tea Party, because that is what they are about.
Oil is the past, solar is the future, we need to invest in the future. And I disagree with the tea party on almost every issue because they support the very people that keep them down. Raise taxes on the wealthy in order to make a better country for all. Look at the widening wealth gap. Do you think anyone works so hard or is so important to society that they deserve to make over a million dollars for a years worth of work. We have the lowest tax rates since before the great depression.
Michael, taxing the rich more sends more money to D.C.
How about if we allowed the worker to have a bigger paycheck instead so they get the money not a politician? Remove the artificial bottom.
Solar is the future> Then you invest in it, don't use my money.
Cronyism is bad, even if you like the reason. That is how a conservative thinks.
We need redistribution of wealth because greed is rampent. People no longer care about prestige and have no problems eliminating thousands of jobs overseas so that they may buy and third, fourth, or fifth vacation home while the people they fired lose there home. CEO recieve astronomical bonuses even when there companies loss millions of dollars.
Michael. There is nothing stopping you from putting your money into Solar panel production. You can't put it into Solyndra but I am sure there are other companies the government can recommend.
Michael first needs to invest his money in an education and maybe some grammer and spelling lessons
Taking less and giving away are two totally different things.
Redistribution of wealth is the biggest greed of all. How can you justify forcing someone else to give you money that you didn't work hard for? Isn't that theft?
He is counting on a redistribution of grades.
Considering none of you seem capable of spelling Michel's name correctly no matter how many times you read it, when it's right in front of you, I'm not going to pay much attention to your complaints about his education.
It is spelled Michel. Everyone else thinks they know how my name is spelled.
To SJM, I know how to spell my own name. I have a master's degree with a 3.5 GPA and by the way you forgot your period.
Was that a non thesis track?
Michel-NC
And global warming is here to stay! Really Michel, you may have a masters with a 3.5, oil is not a thing of the past. Many consumer products use oil byproducts in addition to using it for a combustable engine.
I doubt no one would like to see an alternative source of energy, but wind and solar are not cost-effective yet. Until it does become more cost-effective, what source of power do we have available at the moment?
Don't tell me wind power, for I do live near a wind farm. Over 750 turbins at a net cost of near $2M each provide a source of power for less than 22K homes. And Michel, each turbin is provided government tax benefits like the oil companies.
So Michel the Masters champion, what alternative TODAY do you envision.
What is the Chinese verson of hari kiri called?
Fox Lies.
Oh, I get it. His statements are like a restaurant place mat puzzle - just circle the lies.
When you persue technology that has never before been in existence there is inherently a substantial risk of failure.
When you are competing with China, in a rigged market place, the risk of failure is even greater.
We must persue the development of alternative energy and we must force China and other foreign countries to play by the rules.
Why do you think many of our manufacturers have relocated to China and other foreign countries, they then can take advantage of not playing by the rules and make substantial profits.
If it does not say made in the United States of America or Canada, do not buy it, you will then see jobs return to our country.
I guess this will be the last we hear from you as your computer (or components) were not made in the US.
Did you read the emails?
How did you post this? On your 100% made American PC?
Is hilarious when I hear people yelling "Buy made in the u.s only!". Nothing is made in the u.s anymore. We crowd ourselves with researchers and innovators to only outsource the job later. China doesn't give a rat toosh about how american invent things when they are the one to distribute them to the world. So question, who is the idiot? Which economy is rising and which is tumbling?
Nat: The US is still the leader in manufacturing regardless of what you hear on the news. Do the research.
Think China heard Vice President Gore when he was calling to The USA to invest in Reusable Energy. Who knew they would make a turn around and kick The USA out of the competition.
Many everyday items aren't made in the U.S. anymore. I would like to buy more American made products but even American brands are made overseas. China can make the solar panels cheaper, we can't force them to charge more. Besides who made the rules? Where's the global rule book? My company receives no government subsidies and we compete in a global market. We have to keep our costs down so we can produce a competitive product. Our factory was built in the 1960s and was an empty building when we needed to expand. Maybe we should have built a multimillion dollar state of the art factory and we would be out of business as well!!!
chu, holder ,obama.....all dirty and these are our leaders? OWS should be in front of white house but nothing is obamas fault....ya gotta be kidding me
the fact that obama and his henchmen gambled on solyndra and lost isnt what bothers most people..its the way the entire process was handled or should i say mishandled. circumventing rules to make him look good at the expense of the american people is the issue !! he has lost our confidence and that is undeniable !!!
The corruption of the Obama Administration makes Nixon look like Mother Theresa! And the news media still continues to prop up the Chicago crook! I don't get it!
Just more examples of the elite, smart, clueless bureaucrats that dumb ass Obama has circled himself with who don't know the first thing about running a business. That lying piece of crap; no political consideration went into him making the decision to squander half a billion dollars? What Bull@!$%#!
Solyndra should be a required MBA project assignment. I'd guarantee you that any MBA student who would agree with the Solyndra loan would flunk out of the program. Actually, might not be such a bad deal as Obama would love to have the "flunkee" in his administration.
Well i believe in order to be president you must have a bachelor in economic but that's asking too much of them isn't it?
Chu ought to be made to pay the tax payers money back not just say Im sorry, but thats all they all say is im sorry when they caught.
When you treat the US dollar like monoply money this is what you get!
At least Chu is taking responsibility for what he screwed up. You'll never hear that Jackass now in the White House admit to any F..K ups!
Why is this story buried at the bottom of the home page for msn.com and not a lead story ??????
your lucky it was posted at all
...because for the rest of us, that have been paying attention to the way things work for a little while now, who understand that this isnt actually a scandal, there isnt even story here except that the GOP is hypocritical and puts politics ahead of country ...and thats actually not even news.
Because the MSDNC network is the propaganda arm of the Obama administration...
This is good! found out how Hussein's crew made the decision and then look at why wall street was bailed out
and then where is the millions of dollars lost in Iraq and Afghanistan wars
and then the lies that lead up to the Iraq war
and what the hell the Occupy wall street wants, instead of taking over parks and blocking traffic.
Why is this story buried at the bottom of your home page and not a lead story ? I had to scroll and flip to your politics section to find the story ......this is a major news story, MSN !!
What Country are you all from you sound treasonous.
He will take responsibility when he resigns. Best interest of the taxpayers? What BS is this. How is spending 1/2 billion of our hard earned money best used in this fiasco? Are these guys completely brain dead? Do they expect us to believe this crap?
As much as W's crap was expected to be believed, yes.
Fox Lies.
Humansmatter,
Im afraid you lie more than fox ever could. If funny how Dems conveniently forget that they voted for the So called "Bush lies" policies. They like to act as if mean ole Bush pulled somthing over on them. What bull. The Dems Voted to go to war when Bush asked approval. (Something that "the great one" Obama feels he is better than past presidents and does not even seek Congress approval). Take you hypocrit liberal self and move to a comunist country where you will be happy!!!
It looks like this needs to be checked out for 'intent'.
Creating a scandal out of thin air...trust the Republicans to try and ruin America until they have their way, right?
Ozzy,
Obamas doing a fine job of ruining America all by himself. The repubs are trying to save America by getting this CORRUPT Slime ball out of office.
The Dow is over 8000 (where bush left it), he is pulling in more donation (avg 56$ ) then all of the GOP, The permits for new construction is up for the first time in over 3 years and the economy is slowly growing and you say Obama is ruining the economy? WOW Is the sky green is your world? lololololol There has been a private sector job growth in every month since his elections and he is ruining the country? lololololol What else did Fox tell you lolololololol
well, at least its the summer of recovery for someone
Tempest in a teapot, Ozzy. They didn't bat a @!$%#ing eye when we were forced to pay $40 billion for an oil company's spill in the Gulf, but the second Fox finds a story to make President "Not a White Man" look bad, they get their sheep to jump on it like vultures.